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Speaker 1: Strap on your parachute. It's time for What Goes Up

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Speaker 1: with Sarah Ponzick and Mike Reagan. Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 1: What goes Up, a Bloomberg Weekly Markets podcast. I'm Sarah Ponzek,

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Speaker 1: reporter on the Cross Asset team, and I'm Mike Reagan,

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Speaker 1: a senior editor at Bloomberg. This week on the show,

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Speaker 1: for the first time in a year, benchmark tenure treasury

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Speaker 1: yields spiked above one point six and the stock market

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Speaker 1: started the show It's nerves. What's actually behind the spike

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Speaker 1: and rates? And at what point does the equity market

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Speaker 1: have to take serious notice? We discuss, and as always,

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Speaker 1: we will close out the episode with our tradition the

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Speaker 1: craziest thing we saw in markets this week? Uh, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: another crazy week. I got a couple of good ones.

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Speaker 1: I trust you do as well. I trust you have

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Speaker 1: plenty good ones. Mike. Yeah. Um. And I'm excited this week.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know I'm excited every week, but I'm

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Speaker 1: especially excited this week for one thing, because You've managed

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Speaker 1: to drum up a ridiculous amount of interest in my

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Speaker 1: high school nickname among listeners. I did not expect the

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Speaker 1: demand to be so robust. I think the joke is

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Speaker 1: on you, Mike, though, because I think you're actually the

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Speaker 1: one who drummed up all this demand. I've just been

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Speaker 1: going along for the ride, and here we are sitting

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Speaker 1: knocking on the door of two hundred reviews, and that

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Speaker 1: means that Mike's just gonna have to share his other

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Speaker 1: other not as flattering high school nicknames soon. It backfired

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Speaker 1: on me, It really did. I did not think. I

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Speaker 1: did not think the demand would be that robust. But

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Speaker 1: we're really up to one ninety seven now, so I

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Speaker 1: will not reveal the high value nickname. I might reveal

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Speaker 1: a lesser valued nickname at the end of the show

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Speaker 1: if you stick around. So there's that. But the other

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Speaker 1: reason I'm excited, Sarah is this week's guest is a

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Speaker 1: bona fide Philadelphian like myself, at least suburban Philadelphia, which

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Speaker 1: means I may slip into my sort of Delaware Valley

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Speaker 1: accent and talk about winter ice and stuff like everyone

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Speaker 1: would love that. Everyone I know, at least our guest, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we'll understand what I'm talking about. And she is the

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Speaker 1: chief investment strategist at P and C Financial Services Group,

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Speaker 1: which manages the neighborhood of a hundred and fifty billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Amanda Gotti. Amanda, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: be with you both today. Great and also I believe

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Speaker 1: a loser if if my LinkedIn stalking is accurate. A

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Speaker 1: Losern County native, or at least high school which is that?

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Speaker 1: Is that is really impressive? Yes, I'm a Dallas High

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Speaker 1: school grad, Losern County. Yes, Harvey's Lake. You've swimming Harvey's Lake,

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Speaker 1: I assume and uh oh absolutely, many many summers spend

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Speaker 1: at Harvey's Lake, like you should never ever be ashamed

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Speaker 1: of LinkedIn stalking. Yeah, it's what we do. It's what

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Speaker 1: we do. It's what we do. I'm impressed. But my

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Speaker 1: people came from Wolk Spara not too far away from there,

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Speaker 1: and and many summers at Harvey's Lake too. I'd not

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Speaker 1: meet with them. But anyway, enough with all that, Amanda, I,

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Speaker 1: as Sarah pointed out, the treasury market has really taken

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Speaker 1: center stage this week. I guess, um, you know, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't very surprising that we should see yields yields creep

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Speaker 1: up the way they have. I think the rate of

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Speaker 1: change is kind of what's alarming people how swiftly they've

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Speaker 1: moved up. What is your thinking on that? You know,

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Speaker 1: what are you telling clients about? This? Is it um

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Speaker 1: you know to the moon? As they say on Reddit

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Speaker 1: for yields an hours? This is this just sort of

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Speaker 1: an anomaly and should should this at least the rate

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Speaker 1: of change in the increase settled down? Do you think? Well?

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to unpack as it relates

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Speaker 1: to what's happening with interest rates here. I think at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, this feels like about as

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Speaker 1: high as we can see the ten year ago from

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Speaker 1: a market driven perspective. Can talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: why that's the case. I think there's some issues at

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Speaker 1: the very short end of the curve. There's also some

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Speaker 1: issues at the intermediate and longer end, and so when

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Speaker 1: you combine those two things together, we're really seeing pretty

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Speaker 1: dramatics deepening in the yield curve if I just take

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Speaker 1: kind of the longer end as a starting point, So

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Speaker 1: the tenure absolutely at the highest level of the pandemic

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Speaker 1: um you know, really outsize moves more significant than even

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Speaker 1: what we saw following the Georgia Senate runoffs and even

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Speaker 1: the Fiser efficacy um news around their vaccine back in November,

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Speaker 1: and yet we really haven't had a lot of meaningful news,

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Speaker 1: so fairly extreme moves here on basically this idea that

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Speaker 1: we're going to get a ton of stimulus coming into

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Speaker 1: the system and fast, and so, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: this is the bond market's interpretation that that Congress is

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Speaker 1: going to effectively pull off at one point nine trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar stimulus package and then turn right around and do

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Speaker 1: another package, but infrastructure focused of the same magnitude or larger,

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Speaker 1: just in a matter of a few months. And our

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Speaker 1: take on this is that the bond market is obviously

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Speaker 1: concerned about it, obviously fixated on it, but ultimately it's

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Speaker 1: going to be very difficult to get all of this

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Speaker 1: done and rapid succession. I think it's pretty clear and

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Speaker 1: well understood that the one point nine trillion can get

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Speaker 1: done through budget reconciliation, not at all clear that we

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Speaker 1: can get the same magnitude of stimulus done for infrastructure

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Speaker 1: without raising taxes. And so I think that's going to

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Speaker 1: be the key to the path forward in terms of

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Speaker 1: the intermediate and longer end of the curve, I think

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Speaker 1: things are going to settle down a bit. We may

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Speaker 1: not actually see rates fall back down meaningfully, but this

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Speaker 1: rate of change has to slow down when you start

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Speaker 1: to factor in UM increasing taxes. That's not going to

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Speaker 1: be able to happen or turn on a dime US necessarily.

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Speaker 1: The short end of the curve very different story, So

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Speaker 1: much much more pressure on the downward side of the

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Speaker 1: short end of the curve, and it's really a function

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Speaker 1: of treasury related accounting as I would describe it. UM.

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Speaker 1: There's an adjustment there in terms of cash reserves as

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Speaker 1: it relates to their funded status and as it relates

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Speaker 1: to what they think is going to happen from a

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Speaker 1: stimulus perspective, and so net net, they are creating some

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Speaker 1: scarcity of supply there, and I think that that is

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Speaker 1: putting pretty significant pressure on short term rates. We've even

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Speaker 1: seen REPO go into negative territory here again very recently,

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Speaker 1: and so I think net net two very different forces

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Speaker 1: applying a lot of pressure here on the yield curve,

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Speaker 1: creating a lot of steepening UM. You know, the usual

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Speaker 1: interpretation of steepening is that we're going to see this

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Speaker 1: massive acceleration and growth and potentially an inflationary spike. But

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Speaker 1: I would say we need to slow our role here

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Speaker 1: a little bit, just given kind of the forces that

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Speaker 1: are at play, a little bit of a head fake,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily expecting a full normalization, but I think that

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Speaker 1: this is you know, very significant short term volatility that

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Speaker 1: will start to slow down a bit over the weeks

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Speaker 1: and months ahead, So so focusing on the longer end

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Speaker 1: of the curve. I mean, we heard from Jerome Powell

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Speaker 1: this past week speaking to the Senate Banking Committee and

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Speaker 1: which he said that you know what, essentially people shouldn't

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Speaker 1: really worry about the backup and long and yield because

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Speaker 1: it's a statement of competence and growth. And you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that people kind of need to slow their role talking

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Speaker 1: about this massive pickup and growth, possible worries about inflation

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Speaker 1: down the road. But what is the takeaway here and

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Speaker 1: when you look at the data and the expectations for

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Speaker 1: trillions of dollars of stimulus coming our way, what is

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Speaker 1: the outlook for growth, what is the outlook for inflation?

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Speaker 1: And therefore what does it actually mean for assets like

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Speaker 1: bonds and equities. Well, again, there's a lot to unpack

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Speaker 1: here in terms of the path forward, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think it's pretty clear that we are not out of

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Speaker 1: the woods yet. In terms of the pandemic, you know,

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Speaker 1: case curves are definitely moving in the right direction. There

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Speaker 1: is some progress on the vaccine front, but my goodness,

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Speaker 1: things are moving a lot slower than I think all

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Speaker 1: of us would like to see at this point, and

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Speaker 1: so that really does pose some pretty significant challenges as

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Speaker 1: it relates to the reopening and the path forward. You know,

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Speaker 1: somewhere in the neighborhood of eight percent of US g

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Speaker 1: d P is still in states that are under some

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Speaker 1: form of economic restriction or lockdown. So we got a long,

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Speaker 1: strange trip ahead of us, right was a very long,

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Speaker 1: strange trip in one is setting the stage very similarly

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Speaker 1: long and strange trip to get to a reopening. And

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Speaker 1: while we think in the short run things are likely

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Speaker 1: to be a little bit choppy on the economic growth

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Speaker 1: side of things, and also in terms of this market rally,

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Speaker 1: as we moved towards the second half of the year,

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Speaker 1: and certainly as a setup for two, a much more

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Speaker 1: bullish backdrop starts to come into focus. And so at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, it really comes back to

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Speaker 1: the path forward very much being dictated by covid um

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Speaker 1: and the pace or timing of getting this economy reopened,

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Speaker 1: But certainly some fits and starts in the short run.

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Speaker 1: As to your question around inflation, you know, back following

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Speaker 1: the financial crisis, there was a lot of concern sort

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Speaker 1: of deja vu all over again, very reminiscent today of

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Speaker 1: the concerns and fears back then following the financial crisis

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Speaker 1: that we were going to see this big inflationary spike

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Speaker 1: or inflationary accident, and ultimately none of that really did transpire. Now,

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Speaker 1: I fully admit that we are in unprecedented territory as

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Speaker 1: it relates to stimulus coming into the system, far and

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Speaker 1: away more today than what we saw back then. But

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Speaker 1: we still think there are some structural forces in place

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Speaker 1: that will keep a lid on inflation. So it isn't

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Speaker 1: that we won't see some bouts of it here in

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Speaker 1: the short run, certainly seeing it in terms of lumber prices,

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Speaker 1: healthcare costs, childcare a costs. There isn't certainly a short

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Speaker 1: list um, but net net, we don't think that that's

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Speaker 1: enough to cause any kind of long term damage to

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Speaker 1: the economic recovery or frankly the market rally, and then

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Speaker 1: longer term, when you think about the structural forces like demographics,

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Speaker 1: which are clearly deflationary here in the US, um technological

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Speaker 1: innovation which really has been disinflationary, deflationary how you want

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Speaker 1: to describe it throughout the pandemic, even before the pandemic

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Speaker 1: took hold, and has really distinguished itself in terms of

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Speaker 1: pulling away from the rest of the market pack. We

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Speaker 1: think that technological innovation story is very much here to stay,

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Speaker 1: and we'll also keep a lid on longer run um

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Speaker 1: inflation measures. And then the one thing that had been

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Speaker 1: pretty significant headwind to inflation, now we're seeing a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a pop in it a certainly energy prices.

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Speaker 1: But again, if you think about where we are today

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Speaker 1: versus kind of the next three months or so relative

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Speaker 1: to last year, boy, we have some awfully easy comparisons

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Speaker 1: relative to inflation. I mean basically bouncing off of record

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Speaker 1: no activity, right, not record low, but record no activity.

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Speaker 1: And so is it any wonder that we might start

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Speaker 1: to see a little bit of inflation pop here? No,

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Speaker 1: But I think net net once the weather kind of

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Speaker 1: normalizes in the middle of the country moves past the

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Speaker 1: challenges they've faced over the last couple of weeks, we

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Speaker 1: think that energy story is going to start to fade

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Speaker 1: a bit into the background. So we are obviously watching

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Speaker 1: the inflation backdrop very very closely in terms of, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the stimulus coming into the system and this economic

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Speaker 1: mac recovery that's in the very early inning still, but

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Speaker 1: we're not not particularly alarmed um that inflation is going

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Speaker 1: to be strong enough to derail the path forward. I

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Speaker 1: gotta say, Amanda, you won my heart there with the long,

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Speaker 1: strange trip, grateful dead reference. That's that's pretty good. She

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Speaker 1: also Sarah referenced a door song break on through to

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Speaker 1: the Other Side in a note which also in my

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Speaker 1: I think we have the same record collection as as

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Speaker 1: as kids have beended, but amazing. Yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 1: have to I have to laugh one of the eye

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Speaker 1: joke that it's one of the most important jobs that

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Speaker 1: I have as the strategist for P and C. Other

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Speaker 1: people would say, you've completely lost your mind. But every

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Speaker 1: year we try really hard to kind of pick a

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Speaker 1: song of the year or a musical reference that we

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Speaker 1: think is really going to define the next twelve months.

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Speaker 1: Either from an economy perspective or from a market perspective,

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Speaker 1: and so unfortunately or fortunately, I'm not sure, the musical

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Speaker 1: reference was trucking bad. And you know, to start the year,

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Speaker 1: we were actually seeing this really interesting and attractive cyclical

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Speaker 1: brightening of the backdrop. But then, of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything fell apart with the pandemic that was not part

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Speaker 1: of the musical reference by any means, was certainly not

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Speaker 1: in our twenty outlook. And so it evolved from the

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Speaker 1: cycle is going to keep on truck into my little long,

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Speaker 1: strange trip. I love it so love worked. It still worked.

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Speaker 1: I gotta say. I wrote a column years ago saying

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Speaker 1: that the key to success as a strategist was how

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Speaker 1: good your musical references were in the titles of notes.

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Speaker 1: So you win, I think you win. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: only metric I I really I really followed. But but

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get back to that. You mentioned, you

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Speaker 1: know that the notion of a head fake in inflation,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's super important right now. Um, not

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Speaker 1: only you know, looking at the stimulus in the pipeline,

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Speaker 1: but also the sort of craziness in the energy markets

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Speaker 1: because of the Texas situation. Uh, you look at commodities

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Speaker 1: across the board, you look at copper, it's it's really

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Speaker 1: just going to the moon lately. Um. So I think

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Speaker 1: that sort of uh colors the notion of the FED

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Speaker 1: allowing inflation to run hot a little bit when you

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Speaker 1: have such depressed base effects from the previous year, like

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Speaker 1: like you you point out, Um, but I wonder, you know,

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Speaker 1: if the bottom market could fall for that head fake

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Speaker 1: and sell off even more aggressively. Um. And it gets

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Speaker 1: to the notion of, well, what how does the FED respond?

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Speaker 1: Everyone's kind of worried about a tapering. Um. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that, you know, that could be the wrong worry

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Speaker 1: and and maybe you know, we should start thinking about

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Speaker 1: what with the the FED go the other way and

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Speaker 1: maybe buy more on the long end and sort of

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Speaker 1: really do an explicit type of yield curve control? Is

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Speaker 1: that something? Is that a possibility? Do you think? Or

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Speaker 1: if I have, I've been listening to the grateful debt

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Speaker 1: too much here and I'm going nothing. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't pretend to be in the head of of

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Speaker 1: the FED chairs and really kind of getting a sense

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Speaker 1: of what they plan to do. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's certainly a possibility. Are base cases that you know

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Speaker 1: the FED is going to continue not thinking about thinking

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Speaker 1: about raising rates, right, A little bit of a riff

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Speaker 1: there on on Powell's quote, you know, no major rate

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Speaker 1: increases for the next two or three years potentially. So

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Speaker 1: we're not in the camp we've we've seen members of

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Speaker 1: the streets start talking about pulling forward rate increases UM

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Speaker 1: into the nearer term. Outlook, we are not in that camp.

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Speaker 1: We we think that we're going to stand pat here

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Speaker 1: for a while, um, and that the Quei story is

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Speaker 1: just going to continue. I think the piece of the

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Speaker 1: puzzle here that just doesn't get enough attention in terms

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Speaker 1: of rate movements is really global interest rate differentials. UM.

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Speaker 1: There's that. We wrote a paper last fall talking about

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Speaker 1: negative interest rates and the upside down world. That's a

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Speaker 1: Stranger Things reference, not musical reference, but still ready for

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Speaker 1: the next season. Totally totally obsessed with it, um. But

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Speaker 1: we thought it was a really good analogy for the

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Speaker 1: upside down world of negative interest rates. And so I

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Speaker 1: think you still have to take into consideration global interest

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Speaker 1: rate differentials and how wide they are that giant sucking

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Speaker 1: effect from negative interest rates that gravitational poll um that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing it has to come into play here in

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Speaker 1: capping or putting a lid on longer term interest rates.

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Speaker 1: The ten years now the second highest interest rate across

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Speaker 1: developed market, I think, behind Iceland if I did my

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Speaker 1: math right. Kind of fun fact there um and eight

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Speaker 1: countries today in the developed world have a tenure with

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Speaker 1: a negative yield. And so we really think that that

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Speaker 1: is just going to continue to attract foreign investment into

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Speaker 1: the US, really acting as that additional pressure on longer

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Speaker 1: term rates, kind of creating this vicious or virtuous I guess,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you want to look at it, kind

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Speaker 1: of cycle. And so, yes, you know, the market can

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Speaker 1: certainly take interest rates wherever they would like to. We've

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Speaker 1: we've seen that certainly in the last few weeks. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is this gravitational pull um

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Speaker 1: at the longer end that is going to eventually put

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Speaker 1: the brakes on in a big way. The other thing

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Speaker 1: that we haven't really talked about too too much is

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Speaker 1: how much pressure the equity market is starting to feel

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Speaker 1: from this rapid increase in rates that may very well

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Speaker 1: also put some breaks on this um here in the

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Speaker 1: not too distant future. So what that said? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I asked at the top of the show, at what

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Speaker 1: point does the rising yield start to affect the equity market?

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Speaker 1: And clearly we've seen some jitters this past week, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard people ask this question over

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Speaker 1: and over and over again, uh and pos in research

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Speaker 1: reports left and right. Can't the point already be made, though,

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Speaker 1: that we already have seen the bond market assert itself

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Speaker 1: in the equity market when you look at the breakdown

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Speaker 1: of the returns we've seen this year. I mean, for example,

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Speaker 1: this week, you had financials hit a record high, you

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Speaker 1: had banks rise to the high since twenty two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven. At the same time, you have energy on

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Speaker 1: pace for its best month versus the SMP on record,

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Speaker 1: And yet we see the likes of Tesla and the

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Speaker 1: r q t F, NASA one hundred of growth docks

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Speaker 1: all coming under pressure. I mean, aren't we already seeing

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Speaker 1: the repercussions of this? Oh? I think we absolutely are.

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Speaker 1: I think it will be a little bit more fleeting

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Speaker 1: though than perhaps what the headlines suggests, and kind of

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing in terms of regime shifts and market

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Speaker 1: rotations and such I mean, if you think about the

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Speaker 1: areas that are rallying on this this increase in rates here,

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Speaker 1: it's really the value side of the equation. It's really

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Speaker 1: the go outside trade. And so and this has been

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Speaker 1: the case for a while now, right post the fiser

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Speaker 1: efficacy news back in November, that kicked off a firestorm

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Speaker 1: of a rotation, and yet it really largely has been

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Speaker 1: a sentiment shift. It has not been an underlying fundamental

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Speaker 1: improvement and fundamental acceleration. And so we're really of the

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Speaker 1: mindset that this is really getting pretty extended here in

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Speaker 1: terms of this value rally in the short run, and

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Speaker 1: and this go outside trade. Not that we are of

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Speaker 1: the mindset that we have to revert here and go

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Speaker 1: back fully to the stay at home trade. But if

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Speaker 1: you think about where the rubber meets the road, and

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Speaker 1: it is in terms of earnings growth and fundamental improvement

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Speaker 1: and profitability, the stay at home trade has really distinguished

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Speaker 1: itself and continues to even as a function of Q

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Speaker 1: four earnings season, such strong bright spots coming out of

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Speaker 1: Q four earning season. It's still on that stay at

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Speaker 1: home trade side. And so even though valuations are pushing

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Speaker 1: pretty elevated levels. Right, it's not a stretch to say

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Speaker 1: equity valuations are indeed stretched, but we actually think the

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Speaker 1: underlying fundamentals in many aspects of the stay at home trade,

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Speaker 1: the growth areas in particular, justify evaluations and so on

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Speaker 1: a growth adjusted basis, we actually think there's still room left. Um,

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Speaker 1: still much more of a hail Mary. I think in

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Speaker 1: terms of this value rally, that we've seen markets starting

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Speaker 1: to price for perfection on the value side of the

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Speaker 1: equation when we know that we're nowhere near back to

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Speaker 1: pre COVID you know, pre uh pre pre norms, and

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Speaker 1: so pricing for a perfection in a backdrop that's anything,

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Speaker 1: but that gives us a little bit of pause here

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Speaker 1: at this stage of the market rally, you know, Amen.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the really fascinating things that's happened

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Speaker 1: over the last year has been this new focus on

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Speaker 1: sort of alternative data sets UH, sort of high frequency

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Speaker 1: economic data, you know, whether it be open table reservations, UH,

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Speaker 1: airline traffic on a on a sort of weekly daily basis. Um.

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Speaker 1: I know you've looked a lot at this type of data.

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Speaker 1: You even talk about moving I'm not quite sure what

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Speaker 1: that is. I assume it's some kind of moving uh

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Speaker 1: how much people are moving APP. But it's so moving

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Speaker 1: as a public transit from APP. And as a function

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Speaker 1: of the pandemic, they actually started releasing data for major

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Speaker 1: city usage and so that is actually, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: has become one of the key indicators for us in

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Speaker 1: terms of the success or failure around reopening. And you

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Speaker 1: called it out things like open table reservations, weekly retail

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Speaker 1: sales data, even weekly airline passenger volumes. In pre COVID times,

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Speaker 1: we would have never shortened up our line of sight

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Speaker 1: and looked at such noisy, high frequency indicators. We really

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Speaker 1: would have been looking more at the traditional usual suspects

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Speaker 1: like industrial production, monthly retail sales, and GDP. I mean

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Speaker 1: today thinking about GDP growth and the GDP forecast. You know,

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Speaker 1: three months lagged with a number of revisions. I can't

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Speaker 1: remember what for lunch yesterday, let alone what happened three

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Speaker 1: months ago. It's a blur, and so it's not really

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Speaker 1: giving us the right line of sight in terms of

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Speaker 1: the path forward. And so no matter what indicator you're

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Speaker 1: looking at on the high frequency side, any of these

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Speaker 1: one that I've thrown out, um they're all still somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of thirty to forty to fifty even

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Speaker 1: seventy percent off pre COVID levels or even really year

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Speaker 1: over year, given kind of where we are in late

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Speaker 1: February here, and so I think it's just very helpful

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Speaker 1: in terms of gauging this path forward. The consumer may

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Speaker 1: very well still be consuming to a degree, but clearly

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Speaker 1: we're all still very much living in a stay at

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Speaker 1: home world, and so it's also very reflective of this

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Speaker 1: massive divergence between Main Street and Wall Street and kind

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Speaker 1: of how which one hooks towards the other. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: a key question that the jury is still a little

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Speaker 1: bit out yet, it's still pretty early on. Are actually

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Speaker 1: very early on, but it seems like everyone's trying to

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Speaker 1: game out how quickly people are going to feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: going back to normal. And I'm just curious. I mean,

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Speaker 1: considering that you track all this high frequency data in

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Speaker 1: the early days of the vaccine rollout, have have we

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Speaker 1: seen an increase in any type of this hyprecuncy data

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Speaker 1: showing that some people are at least more comfortable. We

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Speaker 1: definitely have seen an improvement. So even though I'm saying

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Speaker 1: we're somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty to seventy percent

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Speaker 1: of such a wide wide range, but thirty to seventy

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Speaker 1: percent off pre COVID levels. That is better than the

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Speaker 1: depths of the lockdowns for sure, So we are definitely

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Speaker 1: moving in the right direction. I just think the market

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Speaker 1: has started to price in basically a full reopening and

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Speaker 1: back to business as usual and pre pandemic norms, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to take a lot more time

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Speaker 1: for the consumer and businesses and individuals to feel like

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Speaker 1: things are back to normal. I think to two very

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Speaker 1: recent data points that kind of reinforce that are on

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Speaker 1: the sentiment side of the equation, So University of Michigan

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Speaker 1: Consumer Sentiments Survey, worst reading since August of last year,

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Speaker 1: big nose dive relative to the last few months. Even

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Speaker 1: on the business side of the equation, the n f

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Speaker 1: I be Small Business Optimism reading all the way back

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Speaker 1: to the worst level since last May. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's still just very much emblematic or symbolic of the

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Speaker 1: high degree of uncertainty that we still find ourselves in.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the path forward, we are just hashtag

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Speaker 1: not out of the Woods yet I'm gonna look up

433
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: that hashtag. I think you just made that one up,

434
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: and then I don't know. I've been using that one

435
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: for a while, and it's one of those things where

436
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: if you use it and use it and use it,

437
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 1: eventually maybe it catches on. It's kind of start saying it.

438
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: I've already noticed in this episode that Mike's already said

439
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: to the moon twice, so clearly Reddit has got into

440
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: his head. It's rubbed off on me for sure, like

441
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: it or not. Need to throw in a win Lambeau

442
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: here once, but but about it's kind of bottom line

443
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: it for us here if you will, I mean to me,

444
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: you sound, um, perhaps not risk averse, but but certainly

445
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: cautious about uh say, equities and how you would position

446
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: your your investments right now. You know, if I'm a

447
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: P ANDC client and I get you on the phone,

448
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: um or perhaps one of the advisors that that works

449
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: for PNC, uh, what is the sort of allocation portfolio

450
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: allocation that you'd be advising at at this moment? Well,

451
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: I think at this point in the market cycle and

452
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: the economic recovery, you still have to be very picky

453
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: and choosy. This is not an environment where a rising

454
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: tide is going to lift all boats equally, and so

455
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: on the equity side of the equation, even though I

456
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: do believe that valuations are quite stretched, we still think

457
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: that there are pockets of opportunity. So the brightest star

458
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: in the equity asset class universe as far as we're

459
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: concerned as emerging markets, UM, we think, you know, from

460
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: a from an investment thesis standpoint, it's just a really

461
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: strong backdrop setting the stage here in on and beyond

462
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: potentially at the very earliest stages of a major regime shift.

463
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: You know, the the baton tends to be handed off

464
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: between the developed world and the emerging world every ten

465
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: years or so, and we think this could very well

466
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: be the start of that. When you look at the

467
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: data as it relates to the pandemic UM they've done

468
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: a better job managing through that up to this point,

469
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: and it has enabled them to get their economies more reopened.

470
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: It isn't that they are fully reopened, but they are

471
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: certainly ahead of the developed world, and so that has

472
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: had really positive implications for the trajectory of earnings growth

473
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: across much of the emerging markets world. And so it's

474
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: the highest earnings growth projection across the equities fore and beyond,

475
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: really significant, like thirty five percent. You're over your growth

476
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: relative to just the S and P five D still

477
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: still attractive, but up twenty four so a big difference

478
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: shoal there UM. So we think that that's a really

479
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: interesting place to be. We also actually like the emerging

480
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: market debt side of the equation. So from a policy stance,

481
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: UM definitely many more levers to pull to the extent

482
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: that they do run into a little bit of trouble

483
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: or fits and starts around um an economic recovery and

484
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: re acceleration here and then there's a fairly attractive yield

485
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: story as well. So so we're definitely very positive on

486
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: all things emerging markets, other areas and equities that we

487
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: do like very much. I'll throw it out there. It's

488
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: a very controversial trade called the q q q H.

489
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: It's very very much in keeping with that stay at

490
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: home trade. You know. They've really been able to, as

491
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: we talked earlier, muscle through the pandemic and distinguish themselves

492
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: in so many ways, and we think that will be

493
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: used to their advantage in terms of the growth and

494
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: yield star of world that we think we're still very

495
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: much in and that lies ahead, so we're very positive

496
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: on that area. We also like global infrastructure, which is

497
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting one, a quasi fixed income like exposure,

498
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: taking a little bit of cyclicality out of equities, but

499
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: definitely jacking up the potential for yield and income. And

500
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: again in a yield star world, you have to get

501
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: a little creative about how you pick it up in

502
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: a thoughtful way, and so we think that's also interesting,

503
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: like think like m LPs that type of thing. Well,

504
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: I think what I would say is we we would

505
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: avoid energy specific infrastructure, so it would be more traditional

506
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: infrastructure airports, toll roads, rail, et cetera. That kind of

507
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: you know, real asset type infrastructure investments as opposed to

508
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: commodity based. The commodity ones just given you know what's

509
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: happening with w T I and a whole host of

510
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: other commodity prices inject an awful lot of volatility into it,

511
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 1: and so you don't really the end up with the

512
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: ballast that we're striving for um in terms of that exposure.

513
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: And then on the fixed income side, you know, if

514
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: we think equities are stretched and expensive. We think it's

515
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: much more so in fixed income. If you look at

516
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: the yield to duration ratio for investment grade corporates, even

517
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: with the backup and rates that we've had, we're sitting

518
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: at an all time high, handily favoring stocks over bonds,

519
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: and so unfortunately, investors are being pushed a little bit

520
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: further out the risk curve than they might otherwise like

521
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: to try to pick up some yield, and we don't

522
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: think that story is going to change too too much

523
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: over the next few years. So we do have exposures

524
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: to leverage loans to high yield um and then, as

525
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: I said in the beginning, emerging market that got to

526
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: be really thoughtful about picking up those types of exposures.

527
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: Though credit analysis is just so critically important in some

528
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: of these below investment grade asset classes, and especially given

529
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: the uncertainty in the backdropt you don't want to just

530
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: buy a passive benchmark like exposure there. So those are

531
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: a few areas that we still think are attractive. Gave

532
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: us a handful there, and now that Amanda's bottom lined

533
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: it all for us, I think we should let Charlie

534
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: Pellett tell us what time. It is like, stand clear

535
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: of the craziest things we saw in markets this week?

536
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: All right, it is indeed that time. Uh, Starry, let's

537
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: start with you on I'm curious what you got for

538
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: us this week? Alright. So I've been on a roll

539
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: with the names that sound like other names, so I

540
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: figured why not just keep going with it this week?

541
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: There is this one story on the Bloomberg this week

542
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: that it was just funny almost the way it was written,

543
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: And the headline was biotex that sound like cannabis stocks

544
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: joined frenzy pot rally. Um. So I'll just I'll read

545
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: you part of this. Um. So it says drug makers

546
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: that target the and I hope I'm pronouncing this right,

547
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: the endocam, a binoid system which is believed to play

548
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: a role in regulating body weight and controlling energy balance,

549
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: have skyrocketed in. Then it says, well, those biotechs wouldn't

550
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: necessarily benefit from any legislative push for the pot industry.

551
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Analysts say the stocks have jumped on the idea that

552
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: they would be associated somehow with cannabis. Then there's a

553
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: sentence that just says and they are not so very

554
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: very blunt there, but just to give you a couple

555
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: examples of Corbus Pharmaceuticals has almost doubled this year. Our

556
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: Tello by Biosciences uh is up a So some massive

557
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: rallies from companies that are believed to possibly be beneficiaries

558
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: of the new administration in Washington, d C. But to

559
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: repeat that sentence, supposedly they are not. So that's pretty good.

560
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. I see a lot of this these days.

561
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna launch a spack that's like cannabis and blockchain unlimited. Uh,

562
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure it would do very well. Yeah, But all right,

563
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: a man, have they prepared you for our sillyutrition? Here

564
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: the craziest things we saw in markets this week? Do

565
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: you do you have anything? First? I have one for you,

566
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I'm going out on a

567
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: limb with this one, but I'm going going out on

568
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: a limb is always good for them. I'm going NBA

569
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: top shots. I don't know about you all, but I

570
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: feel like we've kind of started to enter the crypto

571
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: kiddie phase of the crypto bowl market here. Um that

572
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: ended in kind of epic disaster back in two thousand

573
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: and seventeen. But I don't know what is up with these.

574
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: They call them non fungible tokens. It's amazing to see

575
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: that these things have been trading for over hundred thousand

576
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: dollars a pop, and even just in the last week alone,

577
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: cumulative transaction value more than a hundred million dollars. To me,

578
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: it's just mind blowing where we are in the cycle here.

579
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: I'm convinced that NBA players are bidding up the prices

580
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: of their own highlights. I think that's what's going on.

581
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna in a few years we're gonna

582
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: read about NBA players who went broke because they spent

583
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: their entire patient buying their own highlights on top shot, Mike,

584
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: you should start looking into this, I think. I guess

585
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: you can't short them, though, I uh but and shout

586
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: out to one listener also brought up n f p s.

587
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: I forgive me, I did not write down their handle,

588
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: but they pointed out The New York Times had a

589
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: big story on n f t s and it is

590
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: it's it's remarkable. I mean, it's it's just this feels

591
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: like there's just oversupply of money in the world that's

592
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: chasing anything like this that that you could possibly make

593
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: a buck off of. It's amazing. It's amazing and and

594
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: some I mean a little bit different, but somewhat along

595
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: these lines. Um Fred Hoffman, he's a professor at Rutger's

596
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: Business School. He reached out and he showed a New

597
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: York Times story basically just saying that there's two liber

598
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: on James cards now worth seven million dollars. So again

599
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: the alternative assets space, Mike, especially just looking at sports cards,

600
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: I mean, through the roof to the moon, as you

601
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: would say, it's it's absolutely amazing. I cannot wrap my

602
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: head around it. In a way. I guess maybe it

603
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: it works as sort of a valve, you know, a

604
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: release valve of sort of excessive speculation in the markets.

605
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: But maybe that's a generous way to look at it.

606
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'll give you, uh my crazy

607
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: thing which I hate to go back to game stop,

608
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: but of course we have to go back to game stop.

609
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: And what what is a week without a game? It

610
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: really is transfixed us all but the craziest thing about

611
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: this rally to me, this surge higher on Wednesdays. I

612
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: looked up the it's a function on the Bloomberg called

613
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: the quote recap, which tells you like, you know what

614
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: exchange or was it a dark pool that it was

615
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: executed on, and the size of the trade. And during

616
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: that run up there was a remarkable huge number of

617
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: single share trades involved, Like the vast majority of trades

618
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: were for for one single stock, which I think you

619
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: know obviously that your sort of knee jerk reaction is, well,

620
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: this is the Wall Street bets crowd, the retail buying

621
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: one share at a time. I mean, maybe that's what

622
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: it means to live in a commission free world, is

623
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: you can you know, you can buy one shared at

624
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: a time. Others were saying, you know, maybe it's uh,

625
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: it's an algou, which I to me and I'm no

626
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: expert on algoes, but you know, maybe if there's someone

627
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: out there as a listener who is, they could call

628
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: us up and let us know what they think. But

629
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: I always picture algoes as being trading you know, around

630
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: lots of stock, in other words, a hundred shares at

631
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: a time. I I would surprise me again as a

632
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 1: non expert, but it would surprise me for an algo

633
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: to actually break up trading into single shares at it's time,

634
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: because I was mostly on the lip markets, on the

635
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: NYC and the NASDAC and it just doesn't necessarily make

636
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: sense to me. Larry. I asked Larry tab of our

637
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: our guru here on market structure at Bloomberg Intelligence. He

638
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: was kind of dumbfounded too. He said, Yeah, there's definitely

639
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: probably some retail they might be uh separate account allocations.

640
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: You know, some r I a putting people all their

641
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: their clients into a little bit of game stop. I

642
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: don't know, man, I don't know. If I don't know,

643
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: if I can imagine any r I doing that with

644
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: putting their clients in game stop, what do you think?

645
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: I can't fathom it. Honestly, I would feel like that

646
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: would be an epic breakdown from a risk management standpoint.

647
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, that it wasn't us, It wasn't me. Well, well,

648
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: if anyone out there listening was trading game stop share

649
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: by share, give us a call and let us know.

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00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: And then we also got a tweet from another listener

651
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: that I want to share also give some numbers around

652
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: this a bit. Her name is a Laundre Garcia at

653
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: a Laundra g M, and she said the craziest thing

654
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: I saw in markets this week was brought to my

655
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: attention by matt Levin's Money Stuff and she said the

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00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: media and robin Hood account size is two. Meanwhile, the

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00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: average account size is five thousand dollars, and of robin

658
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,959
Speaker 1: Hood traders trade options, so that gives you a sense.

659
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the median account size at robin Hood

660
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: is not so large, so maybe they are trading share

661
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: by share, like yeah, that's boy. And the difference between

662
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: the average and the median is it's very big. Yeah,

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00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: So mostly you know, I guess you conclude it's mostly

664
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: small dollar accounts, but then there are a few really

665
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: big ones in there that that pulled up pretty interesting.

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00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 1: That's good. And by the way, matt Levine's column is

667
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: a is a great source of crazy. It is. Oh

668
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: every column has something new and crazy in it. So

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00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: you ever short of ideas, I'll admit some times occasionally

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00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: I am can go and go check out matt Levin's

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00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: Money Stuff com Now that you're back, absolutely well, Amanda Gotty,

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00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to leave it there. But thank you

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00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: so so much for joining Mike and Iva Speak. Thank

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00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: you so much for having me it was such fun

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00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: What Goes Up. We'll be back next week. Until then,

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00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, website and app,

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00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love it if

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00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: you took the time to rate and review the show

679
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: on app podcast so more listeners can find us. And

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00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter, follow me at Sarah Ponzack,

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00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: Mike is that Rey Anonymous, and you can also follow

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00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Podcasts at Podcasts. Also thank you to Charlie Pellett,

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00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Radio and the voice of the New York

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00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: City subway system. What Goes Up is produced by Topur Forehead.

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00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: The head of Bloomberg podcast is Francesca Levi. Thanks for listening.

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00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: See you next time. Before