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Speaker 1: When did you first kind of clock or notice that, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's a plane kind of flying a little low over

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Speaker 1: the stadium all day.

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Speaker 2: This plane's buzzing us, and the band was like, when

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Speaker 2: is going on?

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Speaker 3: We're looking up and he got so low.

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Speaker 2: If you're familiar with Memorials Stadium, well, he was flying

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Speaker 2: so low at the end of the games, he was

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Speaker 2: almost hitting the flag poles at the lower decks, that's

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Speaker 2: how far he was coming across that field, and everybody

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Speaker 2: in the players looking what's going on?

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Speaker 3: What the hell is going on?

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Speaker 1: Hey, Colts fans, I'm JJ Stakovitan. Welcome into another episode

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Speaker 1: of the cult show in Indianapolis Colts Podcast. We are

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Speaker 1: presented by Microsoft Surface Copilot plus PC. If you like

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Speaker 1: our show, if you like all of our shows, please rate, review,

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Speaker 1: and subscribe on Indianapolis Colts Podcast. Subscribe to us on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: You can follow us there as well. Today's episode is

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Speaker 1: what I've been wanting to do for a really long time.

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Speaker 1: It is one of the weirdest pieces of lore in

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Speaker 1: Colts history. Here to help me tell the story of

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Speaker 1: the time a plane crashed in to the Colts Stadium

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Speaker 1: after a playoff game is John Zeeman John used to

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Speaker 1: be the leader of the Cult marching band. He is

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Speaker 1: now the leader of the Marching Ravens. John is one

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Speaker 1: of the key voices in The Move, which is the

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Speaker 1: narrative podcast I did two years ago telling the story

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Speaker 1: of the Colts move from Baltimore to Indianapolis. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorite people to talk to. John. It's great to

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Speaker 1: have you back here talking a little bit about Colt's

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Speaker 1: history with me.

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Speaker 2: That's my thing, Barmiber Colts and Indianapolis Cult's history.

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Speaker 3: Love it.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into the crash and kind of the

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Speaker 1: event that happened, I want to explain to everyone kind

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Speaker 1: of what was going on with the Colts back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. This event takes place in December in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six. Could you just explain what the team

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Speaker 1: was like that year, the success they had Bert Jones

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Speaker 1: won MVP, their quarterback, just the feeling around Baltimore when

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Speaker 1: this game, this playoff game against the Pittsburgh Steelers took

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Speaker 1: place in December.

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Speaker 2: Well, you got to realize Pittsburgh Steelers are our arch enemy,

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Speaker 2: and it was just excitement the whole city, the whole

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Speaker 2: state of Maryland that we were going to go to

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Speaker 2: the Super Bowl, There's no two ways about it. And

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Speaker 2: the stadium was Memorial Stadium was packed, and the excitement,

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Speaker 2: like I said in the air, was we gone. We're

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Speaker 2: a going to do it, absolutely, one hundred percent. And

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Speaker 2: unfortunately it didn't end that way because Pittsburgh cleaned their clock.

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Speaker 2: I think it was like fourteen to fourteen to forty,

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Speaker 2: so a lot of people that day it was a

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Speaker 2: playoff game, and a lot of people were leaving the

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Speaker 2: stadium early. Thank god they did, or else it could

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Speaker 2: have been chaos and a lot of people were lives.

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Speaker 1: The Colts that year kind of like you talked about, John,

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Speaker 1: They won eleven and three, They won the AFC East,

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Speaker 1: Bert Jones won MVP. He led the NFL with three

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Speaker 1: and four passing yards, which today would get you like

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Speaker 1: twentieth in the NFL. They finished that season, this is

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Speaker 1: a fun one. I dug up, John. They finished the

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Speaker 1: season with the fifty eight to twenty win over the

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Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills. I'm sure you remember that game. Those fifty

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Speaker 1: eight points still stand as a franchise record for the

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Speaker 1: most points scored in a game by a Colts team.

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Speaker 1: So this was a really good football team the Colts

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Speaker 1: had that year, like you mentioned, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: thought they were a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we were going to go all the way. There's

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Speaker 2: no two ways about it. Again, I can't tell you

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Speaker 2: the excitement, but it was. It was a shock all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden. We lost fourteen to forty. And again

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Speaker 2: I reiterate, thank god it happened because a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that day would.

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Speaker 3: Have lost their lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So the pack Memorial Stadium watches Terry Bradshaw, Frank o'harris,

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Speaker 1: Lynn Swan Mean, Joe Green, you know, Chuck Noles, Pittsburgh

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Speaker 1: Steelers kind of walk all over the Colts. But we're

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Speaker 1: not here to talk about the game. We are here

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Speaker 1: to talk about what happened after the game, which is

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Speaker 1: that a plane crashed into the upper deck the plane

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Speaker 1: and tuck me through this, John, When did you first

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Speaker 1: kind of clock or notice that, like there's a plane

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Speaker 1: kind of flying a little low over the stadium.

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Speaker 3: It was all day.

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Speaker 1: Like during the game.

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Speaker 2: During the game, the gentleman Donald Kroner was a Pollot,

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Speaker 2: I think it was like thirty three years old, and

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Speaker 2: all day this plane's buzzess and the band was like,

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Speaker 2: when is going on. We're looking up and he got

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Speaker 2: so low. If you're familiar with Memorials Stadium, there had

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Speaker 2: the upper decks and then once the upper decks ended,

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Speaker 2: it was the lower decks. Well, he was flying so low.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the games, he was almost hitting

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Speaker 2: the flagpoles at the lower decks, that's how far he

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Speaker 2: was coming across that field, and everybody and the players

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Speaker 2: are looking what's going on?

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Speaker 3: What the hell's going on?

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Speaker 2: And then at the end of the game, we the

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Speaker 2: band we played a concert to play the people out

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Speaker 2: of the stadium. All of a sudden, if you're familiar

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Speaker 2: again with Memorial Stadium, the band stand would be like

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Speaker 2: center field, three stories of almost out of the stadium,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, we hear an engine getting

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Speaker 2: louder and louder and louder, and we stopped playing and

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Speaker 2: looked up and here comes as playing barreling down on us,

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Speaker 2: just coming straight down on us, and we're looking like

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Speaker 2: to our backs, and we didn't have chance to run.

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Speaker 2: This guy was going to crash into the bandstand. What

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Speaker 2: he was trying to do is laying on the field.

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Speaker 2: But then he had a little problem. The goal post.

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Speaker 2: He didn't figure that in. So there was a band stand, stance,

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Speaker 2: portable stands and the goal post. So he's coming down

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden he realizes and it seemed

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Speaker 2: like he was going to dip down and he's going

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Speaker 2: to hit the van. We thought, there's no way we're

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Speaker 2: going to run. It was a matter of seconds and

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Speaker 2: he came down, scooped, scooped up, hit the top of

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Speaker 2: the goal post, barrel to the right went up. And

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Speaker 2: now there's a place called the basket between the upper

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Speaker 2: and lower deck, and that's where the press has their

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Speaker 2: cameras and TV has all their cameras. And a good

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Speaker 2: friend of mine, Carol Hebble, was a photographer, said when

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Speaker 2: he came up, they could almost touch the belly of

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Speaker 2: the plane. He went all the way up, stalled, came

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Speaker 2: down and crashed in the upper decks of Memorial Stadium.

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Speaker 2: And thank god people were going because again it would

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Speaker 2: have been a disaster.

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Speaker 1: This is a This is like a single engine propeller

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Speaker 1: plane that we're talking about. It's not a it's not

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Speaker 1: like a big jet certainly, but you saw the plane buzzing,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, I think it's almost like incomprehensible today

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Speaker 1: because airspace is so tightly controlled around NFL stadiums to

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Speaker 1: say that there's a plane just buzzing a stadium, but

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Speaker 1: it was.

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Speaker 2: But there was also planes all day going around pulling banners.

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Speaker 2: This was common in all NFL stadiums, baseball stadiums. You know,

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Speaker 2: you see one plane go over, then another plane go over. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like maybe eight or nine a day at a game.

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Speaker 2: So but when he got a little too close, that

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Speaker 2: was the problem. Everybody noticed.

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Speaker 1: To kind of set the stage here, some memorial stadium

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Speaker 1: is kind of this like horseshoe stadium, right, so you

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Speaker 1: have like you talk about him trying to land on

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Speaker 1: the field. This isn't like if you're imagining like a

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Speaker 1: bowl stadium. It's not a direct like just you know,

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Speaker 1: forty five degree and go down. There was was theoretically

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Speaker 1: a way for him to do it had those sneaky

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Speaker 1: goalposts not been there, right, I feel.

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Speaker 2: That again, I don't know how good a polity was,

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Speaker 2: but if the goal post wasn't, there's a good chance

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Speaker 2: he had the chances to land on the field ashly

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Speaker 2: the other end of the field.

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Speaker 1: I dolt now more on The Colt Show right after this.

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Speaker 1: Greatness in the NFL is built on preparation and quick decisions.

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Speaker 1: That's why the Indianapolis Colts trust Microsoft Surface co Pilot

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Speaker 1: it matters most, from the field to the front office.

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Speaker 1: Microsoft Surface Copilot plus PC is transforming how the Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: And now back to the Cult show. The fact that

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Speaker 1: the Cults were blown out out and lost by twenty

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Speaker 1: six points in this playoff game. You've said, You've mentioned

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Speaker 1: it a couple of times, but fans had filed out

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Speaker 1: of the stadium. They were not They had filed out

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Speaker 1: before the game ended. And had this been a close game,

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Speaker 1: or potentially even the Colts won this game, you would

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Speaker 1: have still had thousands of fans in the stands for

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Speaker 1: the postgame concert you talked about, correct exactly.

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Speaker 2: And also you don't have players on the field. That's

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Speaker 2: another thing. Whether he came in and skidded and then

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Speaker 2: hit the other end of the stadium, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a pilot, but it would have been pretty bad,

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Speaker 2: exactly like I said that, it would have been a disaster.

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Speaker 1: I mean, thank got it it wasn't because you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we would be doing a sort of

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Speaker 1: a you know, lighthearted This is a weird bit of

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Speaker 1: Colt's history, certainly if anyone got really injured. So the pilot,

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Speaker 1: Donald Kroner, who you mentioned his name, he was, He

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Speaker 1: was injured, but he was okay after And there were

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Speaker 1: no fans who were injured, correct.

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Speaker 3: No fans.

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Speaker 2: Some of the police officers, UH had problems with like

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Speaker 2: the smoke from the plane.

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Speaker 3: One of the band.

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Speaker 2: Members, well, I was staying next to Mark's death. His

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Speaker 2: dad was EMT paramedic and he was in the stands.

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Speaker 2: It was listened to or console what he remarked the

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Speaker 2: medium at the end of the game, and he was

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Speaker 2: one of the first men there to open the door

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Speaker 2: and get him mapped before the police even arrived. And

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Speaker 2: then he was conscious. And but like I said, the

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Speaker 2: stunt like that, it's ridiculous and it's funny that the

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Speaker 2: plane was damaged, but it didn't catch on fire or explode.

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Speaker 2: That's another thing that saved because there was people in

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Speaker 2: the upper deck, under decks leaving going down the rams.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think it could ever happen, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that could happen again, but I think precautions

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Speaker 2: that might have set the pace of NFL teams and

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Speaker 2: all sports teams.

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Speaker 3: The Donald Kroner incident, as they call it.

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Speaker 1: So why did he do this? Why was he flying

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Speaker 1: this plane so close and then attempting to land it

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Speaker 1: on the field of the Baltimore Colts, who at this

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Speaker 1: point in franchise history had won a Super Bowl, won

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Speaker 1: multiple NFL championships, were one of the early powers of

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Speaker 1: the first couple decades of the NFL's exit, like real existence,

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Speaker 1: you know, as kind of the front of mind, number

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Speaker 1: one sport in America. Why was he doing this?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to give you my own analysis. Okay,

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Speaker 2: the Crowner, I think you want to do. As a stunt,

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Speaker 2: he used to frequent a bar on York Road in

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Speaker 2: Baltimore County called Swallow at the Hollow.

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Speaker 3: If you came in.

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Speaker 2: There then and he'd be in the bar, he'd sign

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Speaker 2: on a great photographs of the plane crash. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: I now, I hate to say only in Baltimore. And

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Speaker 2: then also he was at a restaurant in Baltimore County

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Speaker 2: Bill Pellington restaurant.

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Speaker 3: Bill played for.

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Speaker 2: The Baltimore Colts, and I guess he got little ineviorated,

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Speaker 2: was thrown out of the restaurant. He then went uh

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Speaker 2: to Essex, Maryland Airport, loaded a plane up with toilet paper,

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Speaker 2: blew it out, and bombarded his restaurant with toilet.

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Speaker 1: Paper from the sky.

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Speaker 2: And then another analysis that I think that happened again

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Speaker 2: was he was on a bus, gray Helm bus, and

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Speaker 2: I think he stole the gray Helm bus with people.

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Speaker 3: I think he just liked to do stunts like that.

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Speaker 2: And the only amusing thing the following year we're in

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Speaker 2: the playoffs again, and then the longer railing was a

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Speaker 2: big sign stretched the first annual O'donald Croder Day. You know,

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Speaker 2: little you were there, Well, you like it not, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's the only thing like a Baltimore humor. But thank God, again,

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Speaker 2: I don't think it would have ever happened again. I

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Speaker 2: hope it doesn't. Yeah, I just think he did the

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Speaker 2: stunt to get attention. Unfortunately he's no longer with.

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Speaker 1: Us, So I just take me back to you're there

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Speaker 1: after the game ends, and you see this plane coming

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Speaker 1: at you and you see it crash into the upper

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Speaker 1: deck of the stadium. What is going through your mind

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Speaker 1: when you see an airplane flying straight at you and

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Speaker 1: then crashing into the upper deck of an NFL stadium.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: There was silence on the bandstand, there was gas. But

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Speaker 2: are we really seeing this? Are we really seeing this

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Speaker 2: in our own stadium. It was shocked. In fact, once

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Speaker 2: we stayed watched, of course, you know, being nosy. But

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Speaker 2: once we finished, we got up the bandstand and we

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Speaker 2: went down, of course to our dressing areas. And my wife, Charlene,

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Speaker 2: was the Baltimore Colts cheerleader, and I said to her,

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Speaker 2: I said, a plane just crashed in the stadium. Yeah, right, Charlie,

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Speaker 2: a plane just crashing the stadium. Said come on, let's

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Speaker 2: go home. I said, I mean it all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: you heard the sirens and everything. Said you're serious. And

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Speaker 2: some of the other cheerleaders and got around and said

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Speaker 2: did it really happen? John said yeah, and al a sudden.

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Speaker 2: Then all the band members came in, but we were

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Speaker 2: more or less headed to change our clothes, get out

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Speaker 2: of uniforms, and then we parked on the side of

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Speaker 2: the stadium that was our parking areas, and we were

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Speaker 2: taken around the back of the stadium to our cars

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Speaker 2: by police officers so we.

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Speaker 3: Didn't have to go through the stadium.

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Speaker 2: We're in front of the stadium because that's where all

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Speaker 2: the action was, and there's photographs that of them raising

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Speaker 2: the plane the next day getting cranes in to take

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Speaker 2: it out. But a situation like this, and again, like

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Speaker 2: you said, it's only in Baltimore Colts indie lore that

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Speaker 2: this would really happen. A lot of people have forgotten it,

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Speaker 2: but some hasn't.

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Speaker 1: Where would you rank this moment in cults history among

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Speaker 1: the strangest things that's ever happened to this franchise, as

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Speaker 1: somebody who knows so much about this franchise, five top.

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Speaker 2: Five guaranteed top five or four somewhere in the area

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Speaker 2: because it hasn't never happened again, and I hope it

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Speaker 2: never will, right, But like I said, I would say

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Speaker 2: top four or five history and strange things.

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Speaker 3: But the Baltimore Indie.

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Speaker 1: Cults whatever did? Do you ever know what came of this?

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Speaker 1: Just in terms of I mean, you mentioned the banner

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Speaker 1: that was hung. But just like discussions around the Colts

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Speaker 1: around the playoff loss, was it mostly about oh my god,

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Speaker 1: a plane crash into the stadium or was it like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they also kind of got blown up by the Steelers.

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Speaker 1: There goes our shot at the super Bowl? Like were

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Speaker 1: what was the discussions like about the team in the

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Speaker 1: week following this event.

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Speaker 2: I think, of course it took away from a little

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Speaker 2: bit about us losing the game because, like I said,

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Speaker 2: something like this again I keep on repeating, has never

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Speaker 2: happened before. But I think after everybody got over the

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Speaker 2: initial shock and again thank god nobody was killed or

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Speaker 2: injured or maimed, and then we just concentrated on nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy seven of having our cults go back to their playoffs,

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Speaker 2: which we did so, like I said, it's all through

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Speaker 2: Baltimore Colts history books, photographs, pictorial books which I have

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Speaker 2: in my library. And again I think precautions have been made,

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Speaker 2: thank god they have, especially if you saw the Super

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Speaker 2: Bowl how tight they were with security, and actually go

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Speaker 2: in all professional sports, the tightness of security for the

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Speaker 2: fans and the people on teams.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would be I would be curious if at

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Speaker 1: the NFL level. This, you know, did lead to some

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Speaker 1: change and some tighter procedures and policies and restrictions on

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Speaker 1: airspace above stadiums. It it's a question I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: now interested to go answer and maybe i'll If I

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Speaker 1: find the answer, I'm sure i'll dispense it on a

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Speaker 1: future podcast and I'll also let you know here John, John,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me on this one.

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Speaker 1: It is a pleasure to talk to you every time

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Speaker 1: I do get the chance to do so. Your wealth

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Speaker 1: and knowledge of the Colts history is second to none.

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Speaker 1: This is a story again I'm excited to kind of

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Speaker 1: tell our fans you're in Indianapolis who may have never

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Speaker 1: known it happened back in Baltimore. It happened at the

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Speaker 1: end of a very successful season again for the Colts.

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Speaker 1: And John, thank you again, and thank you again for

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Speaker 1: all the all that you did for the Move podcast

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Speaker 1: we did two years ago. I could not have told

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Speaker 1: that story without your voice as a key pillars part

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Speaker 1: of it, as someone who lived it and experienced it,

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Speaker 1: So thank you for that as well.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the Move there's a new book out maybe

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Speaker 2: all Baltimore cults and Indy colts might be interested in.

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Speaker 2: It's the most I feel, creative and truthful story of

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Speaker 2: the Baldemore Cults and leaving gone.

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Speaker 3: To Indianapolis called Midnight Skidaddle. It's thick. It's a very

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Speaker 3: thick book.

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Speaker 2: But it's starts up in nineteen fifty three and the

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Speaker 2: reasons why the Colts left. They started the fifty three

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Speaker 2: on and I think it's an excellent book for both

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Speaker 2: Indie cult fans and Baltimore cult fans.

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Speaker 3: It's, like I said, five eighty five pages.

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Speaker 2: But the gentleman who did it did a thorough, thorough

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Speaker 2: research on it.

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Speaker 3: And I'll be honest with you.

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Speaker 2: It shows the reasons why the Colts left, and one

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Speaker 2: was the stadium. It was old, and that's a main reason.

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Speaker 2: And that's throughout the NFL. When teams leave, the first

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Speaker 2: thing is the stadium. So I suggest that for the

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Speaker 2: indie cults Midnight Scata.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well we'll file it away here in Indianapolis. John Zieman,

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Speaker 1: former leader of the Cult Marching Band and current leader

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Speaker 1: of the Marching Ravens, thank you for joining me here

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: It's an honor.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much,