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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Too Much Information, the show that brings

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Speaker 1: you the secret history is a little alone, fascinating facts

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Speaker 1: and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows and apes.

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Speaker 1: We are your evolved chumps of esoteric charm. I'm Alex

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Speaker 1: Heigelber and I'm Jordan Roun talking. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: be able to make it through this episode, and Jordan,

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Speaker 1: today we are celebrating the end of April. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: upon that doesn't make any sense until you see it

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Speaker 1: spelled out. We share listeners never will Anyway. We're doing

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Speaker 1: the original Planet of the Apes from nineteen sixty eight

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Speaker 1: because there's a new entry in the actually really good

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Speaker 1: rebooted chronology that's coming out this summer. It's really good.

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Speaker 1: Everyone should check it out. You can probably skip the

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Speaker 1: first one actually because Franko's in it and it's not

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Speaker 1: as good. But I think it's three now, two or

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Speaker 1: three now that have come after that are super good. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. This episode might get delayed,

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Speaker 1: it might drop next week, in which case, welcome to May. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Planet of the Apes Whips. It's a hilarious movie, just

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Speaker 1: one of the weirdest and best things to stumble across

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Speaker 1: on cable as a kid. I don't think I ever

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Speaker 1: actually sat down and watched this movie in its entire

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Speaker 1: really until like college, and it was hilarious. But we're

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Speaker 1: watching it this week. I was like, no, this is

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Speaker 1: a good movie. Like it's really well shot and the

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Speaker 1: makeup is still pretty good, which must have really, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't stress how much it must have blown people's

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Speaker 1: minds in the sixties. If it like we're looking at

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Speaker 1: it today and we're like, that's not bad. I mean

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Speaker 1: it is, but it's like it's uncanny and accurate enough

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Speaker 1: to achieve the really intended effects anyway, Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I just I my dad or the Simpsons had pretty

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Speaker 1: much already explained everything about this movie to me, from

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Speaker 1: take your stinking pot off me, you damn dirty ape

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Speaker 1: or you maniacs, you blew it up. But it is

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Speaker 1: a foundational and really interesting piece of sci fi, and

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Speaker 1: an equal masterclass in the art of spinning crap off.

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Speaker 1: Even though I still don't understand how it's possible to

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Speaker 1: be beneath the planet of the Apes. Is that a

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Speaker 1: subterranean thing. Yeah, I assumed it was subter apian anyway,

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Speaker 1: Jordan talking about your relationship with Planet of the Apes, Uh,

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Speaker 1: similar to yours.

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Speaker 2: But my mom was really into all the Twilight Zone

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Speaker 2: type stuff and all the kind of creepy, weird sci

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Speaker 2: fi things, and so she kind of, if I recall correctly,

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Speaker 2: I think she definitely spoiled the ending of this for

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Speaker 2: me before I actually saw it. But I actually sat

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Speaker 2: down to watch it as a little kid, and my

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Speaker 2: mind was absolutely blown. I thought it was one of

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Speaker 2: the most just deep, incredible cereble works of fiction I'd

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Speaker 2: ever seen. And then over the next couple of years,

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Speaker 2: the humor started to reveal itself to me, probably having

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Speaker 2: watched the Tim Burton movie and being like, oh wait

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Speaker 2: that that wasn't that good? And then The Simpsons of

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Speaker 2: course with Doctor sayis the musical.

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Speaker 1: Peak era Simpsons writers loved this movie, Yes, because not

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Speaker 1: just there's obviously like the musical in the one episode,

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Speaker 1: but like they just keep throwing it in. Why do

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Speaker 1: I remember the phrase apes of popping? Yeah, like that

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Speaker 1: rings a bell for some reason. Apes of Wrath too,

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Speaker 1: I think is a Simpsons puns. I'm just like.

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Speaker 2: And then I feel like the phrase get your hands

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Speaker 2: off me, damn dirty apes was like one of the

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Speaker 2: things that kids in my playground used to say a

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Speaker 2: lot at recess, and so it sort of took on

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Speaker 2: this hokey kitchy which is fair, But revisiting it for

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Speaker 2: this episode, I feel like I did when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid again, like wait, you're right, this is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is kind of the bell curve

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Speaker 1: you come around when when you're like in the sixth

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Speaker 1: or if you're a child, you were like, holy shit,

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Speaker 1: this is the best movie I've ever seen, and then

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Speaker 1: you come around to it being hilarious and overblown in

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Speaker 1: all the ways that it is, and then you come

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Speaker 1: back around and be like, this is actually really well shot,

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Speaker 1: and like, you know, Charlton Heston's doing something in it,

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Speaker 1: as is Roddy McDowell and Kim Hunter and doctors Ais.

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Speaker 2: But the problem is just the word apes. As we

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Speaker 2: talked about, it's a hilarious word. Oh my god, I

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Speaker 2: was gonna say, there's gonna be a lot of me

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Speaker 2: just laughing at nothing in this episode, because well, the

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Speaker 2: monkeys monkey and Monkey Planet is monkeys plural, isn't funny?

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Speaker 2: Monkey singular is funny to me, Apes, Apes is hilarious.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's gonna be just me giggling an

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Speaker 1: idiot in this episode. So now, I mean, you know

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Speaker 1: what's funny, and I'm just thinking now Simeon isn't really

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Speaker 1: as funny to me. No, truly a mystery. She got

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Speaker 1: a linguist on that you woke up this morning with

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Speaker 1: h much like Paul McCartney I woke up with yesterday

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Speaker 1: in his head. Yeah, from a dream. You woke up

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Speaker 1: with a song today. It's not true.

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Speaker 3: I did, I did.

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Speaker 1: I woke up this morning, was stuck in the middle

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Speaker 1: with you in my head, and I've been unable to

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Speaker 1: stop singing. Jim's left me. Gorilla is too my right here,

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Speaker 1: I am stucky in the middle with Apes. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the actually lyrics are. And your apes they

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Speaker 1: all come crawling. Throw you in a net and say chimpanzee, chimpanzee,

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Speaker 1: and there you go. Folks. Well, from the original author's

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Speaker 1: time in one of World War two's less famous atrocities,

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Speaker 1: to the groundbreaking makeup that made all of them go

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Speaker 1: so ape, to the role that Sammy Davis Junior played

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Speaker 1: in queueing the film's producers into a whole new take

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Speaker 1: on their film. Here's everything you didn't know about nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty eight's Planet of the Apes. It turns out that

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Speaker 1: I was wrong about the French not contributing anything to

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Speaker 1: society beyond w C and possibly as an ede case,

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Speaker 1: the fifth element the cinematic empire, that is apes, and

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Speaker 1: we will probably be referring to it as just apes

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Speaker 1: because it's funnier, was launched by a nineteen sixty three

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Speaker 1: novel called La planet de SiGe or, as it was

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Speaker 1: translated to the UK, Monkey Planet. This franchise would have

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Speaker 1: bombed planet. Yes, it's such a case study in like

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Speaker 1: a correct linguistic foibles, you know, because like, yeah, Monkey Planet, hilarious,

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Speaker 1: Planet of the Apes, gratas.

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Speaker 3: That book.

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Speaker 1: Monkey Planet was written by Pierre Boule, who also wrote

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Speaker 1: The Bridge over the River Quhi. That's incredible. Which if

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Speaker 1: you paid me one million dollars to guess that the

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Speaker 1: man responsible for Bridge over the River Kuai was also

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Speaker 1: responsible for Monkey Planet, never could have gotten him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that just blew my mind. Man Bridge of the River

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Speaker 1: Kui for like zoomers, or we don't have any zoomers

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Speaker 1: who listen to the show is like, you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the more famous World War two movies. That's where

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Speaker 1: you get the dent dent d d d d dun

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Speaker 1: Denton and also like a gripping performance by Sir Alec

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Speaker 1: Guinness a pre obi Wan m HM. Anyway, Bull was

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Speaker 1: a He was trained as an engineer and he worked

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Speaker 1: for the Luxembourg based petrochemical concern sock Finn in what

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Speaker 1: was then known as British Malay collection of states on

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Speaker 1: the Malayan Pleninsula and Singapore. He was like scraping rubber

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Speaker 1: out of trees, and Sockfinn I looked up has their

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Speaker 1: roots in the Belgian Congo, which means they are monsters

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Speaker 1: and their empire is built on blood.

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Speaker 2: If there's a country that has another country's name as

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Speaker 2: the prefix, it's probably built French Guiana.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Belgian and Belgian especially King Leopold's Ghost was

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Speaker 1: a book that I read about that of just like

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Speaker 1: the extensive atrocities they committed.

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Speaker 3: In the Name of Rubber.

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Speaker 2: One of the less successful U two songs. Come on,

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Speaker 2: give us guess a little bit of it. Come on,

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Speaker 2: I can't sing that high In the name of Rubber.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what about it's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful aide. Okay. When WWII A big one broke out,

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Speaker 1: boull enlisted with the French army in Indo, China, and

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Speaker 1: after the German troops occupied France and the French surrendered,

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Speaker 1: he joined the Free French Mission in Singapore. He wrote

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Speaker 1: that he was trained at a place called the Convent,

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Speaker 1: where as he wrote, serious gentlemen taught us the art

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Speaker 1: of blowing up a bridge, attaching exposos to the side

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Speaker 1: of a ship, derailing a train, as well as that

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Speaker 1: of dispatching to the next world as silently as possible.

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Speaker 1: A nighttime guard dispatching to the next world. That's the

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Speaker 1: most French way to describe killing someone that I've ever heard,

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Speaker 1: not a serious people. As a secret agent under the

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Speaker 1: assumed name Peter John Rule Bull helped the resistance movement

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Speaker 1: in China, Burma and French Indo China until in nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty three, So basically two years later he was captured

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Speaker 1: by Vichy Frants loyalists on the Mekon River. Because as

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Speaker 1: a true Frenchman, he caved under interrogation, that's not entirely accurate.

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Speaker 1: His mission was to make contact with. You know, France

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Speaker 1: at the time was split between the VC government who

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Speaker 1: were Nazi loyalists, and the French resistance, and as a

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Speaker 1: member of the resistance, he was hoping to make contact

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Speaker 1: with a resistance sympathetic VCH official and he bet on

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Speaker 1: the wrong one. He was being in terror and he

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, guys, actually here's my thing. I'm a

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Speaker 1: spy and I'm hoping that you are sympathetic to my cause.

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Speaker 1: And they were like, we are not, and sentenced him

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Speaker 1: to a lifetime of work. Aren't we all sentenced to

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Speaker 1: a lifetime of work? Well, not as bad as the

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Speaker 1: Burma railway where Bull worked, because it is perhaps best

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Speaker 1: known by its more whimsical name, the Death River. It

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Speaker 1: was built from nineteen forty to nineteen forty three by

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Speaker 1: Southeast Asians and a smaller group of captured Allied soldiers,

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Speaker 1: and the brutal conditions there resulted in the debts of

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Speaker 1: over ninety thousand civilians along with twelve thousand Allied soldiers.

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Speaker 1: That's horrible and that's what bridgeram Require is about. But

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Speaker 1: Booll's novel and the subsequent film about his experience, was

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Speaker 1: a worldwide hit. Cleaned up at the Oscars, won seven

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty seven, including Best Picture and Best Actor

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Speaker 1: for Alec Guinness. Sir Alec Guinness, please excuse me. Boole

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Speaker 1: himself won the award for Best Adapted Screenplay, despite not

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Speaker 1: having written the screenplay and by his own admission, not

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Speaker 1: even speaking English, because the film's actual screenwriters, Carl Foreman

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Speaker 1: and Michael Wilson, had been blacklisted during the McCarthy era,

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Speaker 1: which is a theme we will return to. This all

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Speaker 1: brings us back, of course, to The Apes. Writing.

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Speaker 2: High off the success of River Qui, Boule kept writing,

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Speaker 2: publishing five other novels along with essays and non fiction

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Speaker 2: before he got started.

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Speaker 1: On what would become known as Planet of the Apes.

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Speaker 2: At least one person has suggested that Boule brought his

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Speaker 2: experience in World War Two into Apes. But from what

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Speaker 2: you've read, Bull, who gave very few interviews in his

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Speaker 2: life which he basically ended as a semi recluse, didn't

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Speaker 2: consider Planet of the Apes a work of pure fiction. Rather,

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Speaker 2: he preferred the term quote social fantasy, another very French term,

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Speaker 2: which placed him on a lineage of satirists like Jonathan Swift,

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Speaker 2: who wrote honest proposal about the.

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Speaker 1: Rich eating they're young. Yeah, I mean it was it

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Speaker 1: was about eating. It was about eating Irish children, yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh that was it. Yeah, and making them into handbags

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Speaker 1: and gloves right, and also was not received well. Gulliver's

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Speaker 1: Travels too is kind of a similar. Yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: that that kind of stuff was the was the impetus

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Speaker 1: for Bull doing this, And I've heard multiple people refer

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Speaker 1: to this as like a Gulliver's Travels analog. That's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I never would have made that connection. Huh. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mede neither.

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Speaker 2: He told a French television program that sought him out

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Speaker 2: and somehow was successful in getting an interview in nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 2: I regard the absurd as an extremely powerful poll of

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Speaker 2: attraction and human activity. Whenever I look around me, I

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Speaker 2: am plunged into an ocean of absurdity. Should get that

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Speaker 2: embroidered on a thrill pillow, Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not wrong. You know.

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Speaker 2: Bull would say that he was inspired to write monkey

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Speaker 2: Planet by watching gorillas at the zoo.

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Speaker 1: That is the official translated name. I was impressed by

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Speaker 1: the human like expressions, he said. It led me to

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Speaker 1: dwell upon and imagine the relationships between humans and apes.

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Speaker 1: Boule's novel doesn't actually take place on Earth, however, it's

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Speaker 1: setting is a planet in the system of Beetlejuice, where

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Speaker 1: two travelers find a literal message in a bottle floating

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Speaker 1: in space. They read the manuscript within by a French

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Speaker 1: journalist named Ulysses Moreau, and much of the memorable bits

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Speaker 1: of the film are included here. It's just so funny

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Speaker 1: to me. It's a pistolary, like he went with like

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Speaker 1: the oldest framing device of all time. The characters found

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Speaker 1: someone else's diary. That's really cool.

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Speaker 2: There's character plot points with Zerra, Cornelius, doctor Zayas, as

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Speaker 2: well as an archaeological dig in which traces of an

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Speaker 2: earlier human society are discovered, including a human doll that

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Speaker 2: cries Papa, oh oh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't remember that? Oh now I do. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's part of the archaeological dig. Although when I when

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Speaker 1: I when I heard it, I was like, they didn't

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Speaker 1: really get the best toy doll to do that, because

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Speaker 1: it literally just sounds like that's pretty scary though. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a great gotcha moment in the film. Oh doctor.

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Speaker 2: It makes me think of about when the guy had

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Speaker 2: discovered the Titanic went diving down there, and at the

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Speaker 2: time they didn't know whether or not there would be

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Speaker 2: human remains down there or not. And so he's in

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Speaker 2: the sub going across you know, featureless sand, and suddenly

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Speaker 2: he sees this face staring back at him through the porthole,

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Speaker 2: and it's a child's porcelain doll, but just like perfectly preserved.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, you told me that. Yeah, yeah, dolls

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Speaker 1: when you don't expect dolls are the scariest kind of dolls.

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Speaker 1: We'll shout out to front of the pod alley. He's

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Speaker 1: frending a broken dolls, eagerly anticipated by Stephen King, friend

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Speaker 1: of the podtya, give it to Stevie. We'll give it

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Speaker 1: to Stephen Stevie King or Steve King. That's what his

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Speaker 1: like campus paper called him, with that famous picture of

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Speaker 1: him looking absolutely like unhinged with the full beard and

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Speaker 1: long hair Steve King. Anyway, at the end of the account,

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Speaker 1: in Boole's original Planet of the Apes book memorably titled

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Speaker 1: Monkey Planet, the man writes that upon his eventual return

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Speaker 1: to Earth, he's greeted at the airport by an ape

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Speaker 1: driving a truck, leading to the horrified twist you have

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Speaker 1: to read it lake Zoribird or you use on Earth

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Speaker 1: on Earth in the future maybe. And then the final

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Speaker 1: twist is that the people reading the letter are chimps themselves,

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Speaker 1: so we hear the chimps. The readers of the book

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Speaker 1: are chimps. Well, no, the couple reading the letter are chimps.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay. The novel ends with the double twist of

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Speaker 1: the guy in the who wrote the account ending up

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Speaker 1: on Ape Earth, and then the people reading his account

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Speaker 1: in a spaceship are also apes, so it's like a

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Speaker 1: double ape Jeopardy kind of situation.

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Speaker 2: That's like might Shyamalan would like go walk into the ocean?

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Speaker 2: If you heard that, that was like, that's that's too

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Speaker 2: many twists.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little too many, and.

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Speaker 2: So many twists that it doesn't register as a twist.

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Speaker 2: That's what happens. If you twist too many times, you're

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Speaker 2: right back where you started. It's like going three sixty.

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Speaker 2: This is the largest difference between the book and the

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight movie. Ironically, though Tim Burton's adaptation was

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Speaker 2: closer to the books ending than the one Charlton Heston started,

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Speaker 2: how does that one end?

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Speaker 1: I forget Abraham Lincoln, your love Jesus of course at

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Speaker 1: the Lincoln Memorial. Oh my god, that's right, that's right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. God, that movie is so bad. They really

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Speaker 1: thought they had something, they thought they were cooking. But

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, could it be good? I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody who's an ape is amazing. It's just that it

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Speaker 1: hangs on Wahlberg, you know, and he can't summon the

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Speaker 1: manic energy of Heston in that movie. His like a

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Speaker 1: version of intensity is to just look like sleepier and

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Speaker 1: a little bit more angry. Just so funny because he

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Speaker 1: literally blinded a man in his youth. Oh yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a PSA and everyone h and he is trying to

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Speaker 1: get that expunge from his record so that he can

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Speaker 1: become a sheriff's deputy in the Greater Boston area. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in market market. Yeah, it's funny because that movie has

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Speaker 1: a stacked apes cast. It's like Helena Bonham, Carter is Zerra,

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Speaker 1: Michael Clarke Duncan is the Gorilla General, Tim Roth is

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Speaker 1: the chimp bad guy, and they're all so good just

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Speaker 1: hanging it on, uh, hanging it on market. Mark was

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Speaker 1: a bad idea anyway, I do you think it could

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Speaker 1: have been saved?

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Speaker 2: Who would you have cast in the the Tim Burton

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Speaker 2: Planet of the Apes to make it.

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Speaker 1: Not suck as the man you know who? I instantly

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Speaker 1: thought Kanu was Nick Cage, but also good. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: Cage would have been good. He would have brought the

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Speaker 1: requisite level of insanity. Yeah. Yeah, two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: era Burton. I could have seen if he'd gone back

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Speaker 1: to the world with Johnny Depp. Oh yeah. My problem

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Speaker 1: with Marky Mark is that I around the same time

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Speaker 1: he had that movie rock Star that came out, and

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Speaker 1: I've like blended the two in my head. So I

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Speaker 1: just think that he's an ape singing hair metal.

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Speaker 2: Singing hair metal like kind of like slouching around with

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Speaker 2: like a guitar strap to his back on Planet of

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Speaker 2: the Apes and which is kind of a much better

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Speaker 2: movie in my head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he goes there and teaches them to rock. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like School of Rock meets Planet of the Apes

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Speaker 1: verbal contract. There's a brilliant idea, and we're gonna make it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure where Boole's stock was. Six years after

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Speaker 1: River Kwai came out, but it was apparently high enough

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Speaker 1: that Monkey Planet was optioned before publication by producer and

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Speaker 1: former Hollywood power publicist Arthur P. Jacobs. He was actually

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Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe's publicist right before she died.

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Speaker 2: I mean, for our purposes, he's going to talk like

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Speaker 2: the cigar shopping executive.

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Speaker 1: Oh he will, He very much will. Funnily enough, Jacobs

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Speaker 1: was so focused on family friendly movies that he'd made

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Speaker 1: Doctor Doolittle prior to this with Rex Harrison, that he

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Speaker 1: sold the rights to Midnight Cowboy because he didn't want

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Speaker 1: to make a Let's just say he uses the worst

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Speaker 1: term for gay people in the one book or the

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Speaker 1: one interview I read, let's say flick about Urban Decake.

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Speaker 1: Give me more animals, give me more apes. I want

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Speaker 1: another movie where the guy talks to the animals. Well,

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Speaker 1: this next graph is even more funny than that voice.

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Speaker 1: He said. It started in Paris in nineteen sixty three.

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Speaker 1: Two primary sources for this is The Wonderful Planet of

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Speaker 1: the Apes Revisited and the Behind the Planet of the

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Speaker 1: Apes documentary, which you can find on Internet archive, hosted

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Speaker 1: by Roddy McDowell. Jacob said, I was looking from A

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Speaker 1: and I would meet with various literary agents. Asked what

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Speaker 1: he was looking for, he mentioned something like King Kong,

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Speaker 1: which is again the cigar shopping executive meeting like a

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Speaker 1: Parisian bistro, being like, I need a King Kong pick?

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Speaker 1: What do you beget? It has gotten me a slush pile.

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Speaker 1: One agent, while pitching a different client, told Jacobs, speaking

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Speaker 1: of King Kong, I've got a thing here and it's

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Speaker 1: so far out. I don't think you can make it.

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Speaker 1: It can't be filmed. How can you make talking apes believable?

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Speaker 1: Who actually didn't like his own novel very much. He

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Speaker 1: called it second tier. But I guess when you're ranking

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Speaker 1: your own work behind Bridge on the River Khy, that's fair.

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Speaker 1: Jacobs immediately embarked on getting the film rolling. He passed

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Speaker 1: copies of the novel version of Monkey Planet to MGM,

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Speaker 1: Paramount Pictures, and Marlon Brando, offering him the role that

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Speaker 1: Charlton Heston would eventually land with a groveling letter that

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Speaker 1: Brando never answered. Jacobs, even with the X mile of

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Speaker 1: having a Warner Brothers studio artist, draft up some concept

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Speaker 1: art and send it to Brando. After the initial letter

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Speaker 1: and Brando was so like, no, I'm very invested in

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Speaker 1: this high calorie diet of mine.

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Speaker 3: It was really bad.

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Speaker 1: That was a good brand though, simply something he would

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Speaker 1: have done. The I mean, what was that island of

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Speaker 1: Doctor Moreau? Like maybe it was later.

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Speaker 2: I guess that was later enough that he was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, fine, yeah, what was he doing?

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Speaker 1: I mean this was this is fat Brando era, right,

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Speaker 1: because that's why they have to shoot around him in

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Speaker 1: Apocalypse Now.

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Speaker 2: Paclos Now was seventy nine. This was like the weird

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Speaker 2: mid period between On the Waterfront and The Godfather when

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Speaker 2: he was doing like, wasn't he like Julius Caesar.

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Speaker 1: Or something in the sixties? He was in like a bunch.

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Speaker 2: Of what I believe to be bad sixties movies.

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Speaker 1: Well, Paul Newman was another early candidate for the lead,

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Speaker 1: and aside from those two, they were also thinking of

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Speaker 1: Steve Queen, who would have been good, Rob Taylor, and

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Speaker 1: George Peppard who I don't know who that is.

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Speaker 2: George Papard He is the male lead in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

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Speaker 2: Did you know that Marlon Brando was Zappatta the Mexican Resistance.

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Speaker 1: In a horrifying fake nose in brown face and brown face,

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Speaker 1: and they did something to his eyes. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what they did to his eyes? What have you done

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Speaker 1: to his eyes? Rosner's baby?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 1: What was I gonna say?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 1: He has that in common with Charlton Heston, because Charlton

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Speaker 1: Heston made a touch of evil with Orson Wells where

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Speaker 1: they put him in brown face. Oh yeah, Anyway, I've

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Speaker 1: also heard that insanely they were courting Jack Lemon, which

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Speaker 1: I guess he has like a scrawny kind of everyman

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Speaker 1: appealed to him, but.

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Speaker 2: Hey, get your goddamn hands off me, damn daddy as Yeah, that's.

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Speaker 1: How Yeah, and Rock Hudson. They also suggested Ursula Andress

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Speaker 1: as Lady Ape. The most unsettling thing about this movie

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Speaker 1: to me is like being attracted to the ape. Yeah,

406
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Speaker 1: like the sexual tension between Taylor and Zero, which is

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Speaker 1: amplified dramatically in the Tim Burton one. One of the

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Speaker 1: ideas for the sequels Treatments was that they were going

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Speaker 1: to have like a half a half human thing, and

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Speaker 1: then they were like, wait, that implies beast reality directly.

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Speaker 1: We scrapped it. Well, is that the same.

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Speaker 2: Deal with Avatar? Let's go down like movies that have

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Speaker 2: like interspecies.

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Speaker 1: Uh, well, Avatar, I'm not sure that it counts because

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Speaker 1: their human consciousness projected into like lab grown beings. I

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Speaker 1: think I think they're cloned or vet grown movies with

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Speaker 1: you're talking inner species. Yeah, oh god, the fly. Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: that's certainly a union of sorts. Uh. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to keep talking about this. This is weird Superman Superman.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess none of the studios wanted this movie.

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Speaker 1: Jacobs did. Yeah, okay, that one I would accept. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what would their love child be? Half fish half man?

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Speaker 1: But which half roll of dice?

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Speaker 3: Baby?

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Speaker 1: I guess that's my question is like, how does it

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Speaker 1: work when you with mermaids, Like are they locked into

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Speaker 1: fish bottom human half? Or could you end up with

428
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: fish top human bottom? It's hustle Miss Piggy and Kermit

429
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: the frog. Oh yeah, man, what is it? But they

430
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: have kids, right? Yeah, well at least in in uh

431
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: muppets Christmas Carol. Yeah, and they're frogs. Tiny Tim is

432
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: a frog. He's not a horrific They just split the

433
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,719
Speaker 1: difference like some of them, some of them frogs. Yeah,

434
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: I'm about to write a letter. I mean there's Shrek too.

435
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the donkey dragon abominations. Yeah, those actually are

436
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: horrifying and accurate. Uh. Anyway, none of the studios wanted it,

437
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: and Jacobs did get as far as negotiations with but

438
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: they bulked at the budget and put the project and

439
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: turn around. Paramount also stalled out on the money end

440
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: of things, and United Artists felt that the novel was

441
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: impossible to translate. They were talking to Fritz Lang, who

442
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: famously directed Metropolis, about this, but he was deemed a

443
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: hard sell for the studios. Eventually they attached Pink Panther

444
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: director Blake Edwards' names to it, and with that Warner

445
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: Brothers was on board. I mean, were they going to

446
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: try to play it for laughs?

447
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: Would they have had like a Peter Seller's ulf who

448
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: just like bubbles his way through an ape civilization.

449
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: Or I don't think so. I think like an early

450
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: concern for all of them was that this would just

451
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: be laughed at. So they were like trying to play

452
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: it as po faced as possible, like at every stretch

453
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: like they initially if you see the old initial like

454
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: the test footage that they shot of it with Edward G.

455
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: Robinson as doctor zais he's like dressed in a suit,

456
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: and they were quickly like no, no, no, give them

457
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: like Roman togas or whatever, like neighbor suits or whatever

458
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: they're actually wearing. They were like, we cannot have them

459
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: wearing actual human clothes. Arthur Jacobs sent a letter to

460
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: his French lit agent buddy because this guy had been

461
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: getting antsy, and was like, I can't hold the rights

462
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: I can't have to give you this exclusivity for much longer,

463
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: and told him that Shirley McClain was going to star

464
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: because she had been in one of Jacob's previous films,

465
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: and ultimately she would not star in Planet of the Apes,

466
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: but Jacobs had already secured a crucial presence for the

467
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: film by that time. Rod Serling, baby, I always forget

468
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: that he was a WWII paratrooper.

469
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: Whoa can you imagine like him and Kurt Vonnegut like

470
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 2: at some officers bar swapping human horror stories that yeah,

471
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: chain smoking.

472
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, that would be so depressing actually, because

473
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: Vonnie was deeply haunted by it. I assume Surling may

474
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: have been when he was sober well.

475
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 2: I don't know if Surling was a pow like Vonnagut

476
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: was because it wasn't Slater based on his own like

477
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: being caught in Dressden during the fire bombs.

478
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Serling parlayed a bunch of disparate TV and film

479
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: writing gigs into his own show, The Twilight Zone, which

480
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: you may have heard of. It was launched in nineteen

481
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: fifty nine and became a hit. Scooped up a Peabody

482
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: Award and fort Writer's Guild Awards during its run. Shortly

483
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: before his death in nineteen seventy five. According to Planet

484
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: of the Apes Revisited, Serling explained, I first became involved

485
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: with Planet of the Apes about ten years ago, so

486
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: sixty five, although he funnily enough said it was through

487
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: a production company called King Brothers and Curling Ads. They

488
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: mostly did Indian elephant pictures shot for about a dollar eighty.

489
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: I have no idea what that phrase means, so he

490
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: must have gotten confused. I just thought that was funny.

491
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what Indian elephant pictures were. I guess

492
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: that's a film where you just get an Indian elephant

493
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: and go from there. But regardless of who he was

494
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: approached by, and he did a whole treatment for it,

495
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: he was called by Blake Edwards, who said not to

496
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: worry about the money, as the film was going to

497
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: be a big one.

498
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,479
Speaker 2: Serling honed in on the fact that Bull had not

499
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: written a sci fi book per se. Serling said in

500
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two, as talented and creative a man as

501
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: Boll is, he does not have the deafness of a

502
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: science fiction writer. Boull's book was prolonged allegory about morality

503
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: more than it was a stunning science fiction piece, but

504
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: it contained within its structure a walloping science fiction idea.

505
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was interesting to me to learn that one

506
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: of Serling's early episodes of The Twilight Zone, called I

507
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: Shot an Arrow into the Air, is based around a

508
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: group of astronauts who turn on each other after crash

509
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: landing on a planet that in the end is revealed

510
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: to be Earth. Oh yeah, that's right. They're just like

511
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: outside Vegas, Like they literally see like a highway sign

512
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: that says Vegas or Vegas. I think at the end

513
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: that's like the big horrifying moment. But I don't know,

514
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: Maybe it was self plagiarism gone on there.

515
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: But in his initial version of the adaptation, Serling went

516
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: a little too far. He would later admit as much, saying,

517
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: my earliest version of the script featured an ape city

518
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: much like New York. Of course that was much too

519
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: expensive to do, he continued. The script was very long,

520
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: and I think the estimate of the production people was

521
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: that if they had to shoot that script, it would

522
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: have cost no less than one hundred million dollars by

523
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: the time they created an eight population, clothed it, and

524
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: build a city for them to live in. That's like

525
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: between a quarter and a half a billion dollars today.

526
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Soling was also concerned about.

527
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: Adapting the tone of bulls essentially satirical novel into a

528
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 2: serious sci fi film. Now, as soon as you put

529
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: a shirt and tie on an orangutang, he says, you

530
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: invite laughter. This is true, but our story is serious satire.

531
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: Soling would eventually produce thirty drafts of the Planet of

532
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: the Ape screenplay. This is according to the documentary behind

533
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: the Planet of the Ape thirty drafts. Wow, would you

534
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: classify Planet of the Apes as satire?

535
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: You know, I personally wouldn't see why it kind of

536
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we'll touch later on Sammy Davis

537
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: Junior's interpretation but I think maybe unintentionally, like most of

538
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: the creatives in it are people who were products of

539
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: the fifties system, and it just took so long to

540
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: get made that they accidentally dropped something into nineteen sixty eight,

541
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: the most turbulent year of a famously turbulent decade. But

542
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: like Bull wrote it in he was like a you know,

543
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: greatest generation. Arthur P. Jacobs was like coming I mentioned earlier,

544
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: he was like a Marilyn Monroe era publicist. Heston was

545
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: certainly more famous, I think, as a leading man through

546
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: their early part of the decade, and then they just

547
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: wound up by sort of coincidence, making this thing that

548
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: was a great allegory about class differences and class structures,

549
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: which they even not within the apes, because there's a

550
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: point where like Cornelius and Zero are talking and they're like, oh,

551
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: you know how orangutanks hate chimps or whatever, so like,

552
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: there is a bit of that that is textual. But

553
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: I think just by virtue of taking so long to

554
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: get this thing made, it transcended the generation that created

555
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: it and achieved unintentional resonance with the people who actually

556
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: saw it.

557
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: That makes sense, Well said, yeah, I mean, I wonder

558
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 2: if it's almost like George Romira doing another Living Dead,

559
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: which became an allegory for racism as well, and somebody

560
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: although I guess he probably intentionally made some of those

561
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: scenes look like the you know, the he.

562
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: Did He did not. He did not. The character was

563
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: not black in the screenplay, and he just cast for

564
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: the best actor he was able to find. And then

565
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: later he started saying, oh yeah, oh yeah, it was

566
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: a civil rights thing because George, if anything, knew what

567
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: he was savvy about what that would do.

568
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

569
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 4: back with more too much information in just a moment.

570
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 4: The plan of the Apes movie, as you said, part

571
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 4: of the long gestation period, was Warner Brothers, after years

572
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 4: of development, killed the whole thing in January nineteen sixty five.

573
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 4: After taking a long hard look at the projected budget,

574
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: which was nearly seven point five million, which is i'd

575
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 4: say about close to like seventy five million today. Blake

576
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 4: Edwards departed and producer Arthur Jacobs was back at square one.

577
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: But Jacobs, he was a tenacious bastard.

578
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: He never gave up, and one of his first moves

579
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: was to send Rod Serlings draft to the book's author

580
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: Pierre Boole. Bill did not like the It was Earth

581
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: All Along ending, also known as one of the greatest

582
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: film twists of all time.

583
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: The man who couldn't keep his twist straight in the

584
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: book version hated one of the best twist endings ever. Okay,

585
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: French Yeah Mule felt that it cheapened the story, saying

586
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: that it served as quote temptation from the devil. What

587
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: does it even mean? I have no idea?

588
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: French Man producer Arthur Jacobs, however, didn't care and didn't

589
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: ask Boule.

590
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: To write a new version of the script to his

591
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: own novel. And he's just funny. Charlton Heston talks about

592
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: like the tremendous hustle that Jacobs had as a producer.

593
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: He was just like, they don't want it. I'm taking

594
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: it over here, Like Bull doesn't want a new screenplay, Great,

595
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go lock down. Heston like he was just constant.

596
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: He really believed in this thing, and he was right.

597
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: He took the script over to Charleston Heston and attempted

598
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: to woo him to star as the astronaut initially called

599
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 2: Thomas and later renamed Taylor and Charlton. Heston me, what

600
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: where do you start with him? I mean, he started

601
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: as a stage actor. You'd become a huge name in

602
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: splashy period dramas like ben Her, The Ten Commandments, and

603
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: The Warlord, where he eventually worked with the eventual director

604
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: of Planet of the Apes Franklin J.

605
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: Schnaffner Schafnaffner shaff Schnaffer. Yeah, you know, I kind of

606
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: had a negative opinion of Chuck Heston before this. I

607
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: kind of thought he was like a because I only

608
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: ever knew him from being an NRA advocate. But he's

609
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: like quite delightful in the documentary and the book. He

610
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: kept extensive journals which are written in very erudite, funny ways,

611
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: and he really took care of the other people on

612
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: the set, as we'll talk about. But so I'm like, yeah,

613
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: good on you, Chuck.

614
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: And yeah, like you said, he speaks very admirably of

615
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: producer Arthur Jacobs. He says in the book Planet of

616
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: the Apes Revisited.

617
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: That he didn't even know how Jacobs found him quote,

618
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: because I usually didn't accept submissions other than those accompanied

619
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: by firm fully funded offers, which of course.

620
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: He was not in the position to make at that point.

621
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: Hessen would eventually inc a deal for a quarter of

622
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: a million dollars, which again in nineteen sixty seven was

623
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: nothing to sneeze at, and ten percent of the box office.

624
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 2: There it is, is that for just this movie or

625
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: for the whole franchise.

626
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,479
Speaker 1: I don't think it could be in the franchise because

627
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: he he only came back for two on the condition

628
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: that he would it would be his last one, but

629
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: still ten percent of the gross of this movie and

630
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: sixty sixty eight would have been a chunk of change.

631
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: It's like coming back to alec Innes. It's funny because

632
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: he thought Star Wars was gonna be nothing, so he didn't.

633
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: He like just took He took like a lower scale

634
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: in exchange for I think merchandise rather than back end,

635
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,959
Speaker 1: and just like lived out the rest of his life

636
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: on the strength of that decision.

637
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: So all of this was still taking place over months

638
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: without any real development in terms of actually getting this

639
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 2: thing made at a studio. Charlton Hesson developed a running

640
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 2: gag with Jacobs, who would call and say that the

641
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: project had been killed at MGM, but he was taking

642
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: it back to Warner who'd previously killed it, because they

643
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: have people over there. This has been taking so long

644
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: that the turnover rate of executives at all these studios

645
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 2: was total.

646
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: Hessen has he writes about it in the or he

647
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: I think he writes about in his journal what he's like.

648
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: Jacobs had calls me up and he's like, well, it's

649
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: killed in Fox, but I'm going to take it over

650
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: to you United Artists, and Heston would finish his sentence

651
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: because they have new people over there. Director Franklin J.

652
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: Schaffner would say, it seemed to me a fascinating project

653
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: which would never get made, So when Arthur said would

654
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: you do it, it was easy to say yes. Two

655
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: years later, Arthur called me up and said, we have

656
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: enough money to do a makeup test.

657
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: It took him two years to get enough money to

658
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: just do a makeup test. Yeah, I mean this was true.

659
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: Fox executive Richard Zanek had wisely honed in on the

660
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: fact that the movie would be made or broken by

661
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: the makeup or ape up situation, and eventually Jacobs and

662
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: the rest of his crew. Associate producer Mort Abrahams, which

663
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: is such a funny Hollywood guy name, which is constantly

664
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: begging for money from him, and they eventually got together

665
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 1: around seventy five hundred for a makeup screen test shot

666
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: on thirty five millimeter in Fox's lot in early nineteen

667
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: sixty four. This featured an more elaborate and therefore ultimately

668
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 1: unused EPE makeup, starring Edward G. Robinson as Zayas, along

669
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: with James Brolin as Cornelius and Kim Taylor, who would

670
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: play Zero Edwige. Robinson was so taken aback by the

671
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: makeup process and also being half dead, that he was like,

672
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this, and he was replaced

673
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: later in production by Maurice Evans Ebrogie.

674
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: Robinson's best known to me for Looney Tunes, basically because

675
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: he was he in the original scarface or something. He

676
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 2: was like an ottle gangster movie actor in the thirties

677
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: and forties.

678
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know much about him, but

679
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: he was basically like mar Heart will not take it.

680
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: It's probably fair. Actually. The screen test did reveal some

681
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 1: shortcomings with the initial makeup design, but it did show

682
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: that the makeup would hold up under film lights and

683
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: that the actors' voices would be unaffected. Fox's response was

684
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: once again to back out, and Jacobs resumed his grind.

685
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: He hired another writer, Charles Eastman, to punch up some scenes,

686
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: and the forty pages that he's been produced were deemed unusable,

687
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: and then they turned back to writer Michael Wilson, who,

688
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, had been blacklisted as a communist

689
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: during Joseph McCarthy's Red Scare campaign and brought that experience

690
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: into like the trial scenes for example, oh wow, it

691
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: was his way of commenting on that. Yeah, He'd done

692
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: uncredited rewrites on Bridge over the Requi Lawrence of Arabia

693
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: and born an Oscar for a Place in the Sun.

694
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: So then Jacob's associated producer, the aforementioned mort Abrahams explained

695
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: that production continued to eke money out of Fox like

696
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: a couple grand at a time to keep refining the

697
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: makeup design Jacob's associate producer, the afore mentioned mort Abrahams,

698
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: explained that production continued to eke money out of Fox

699
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: like a grand at a time to keep refining the

700
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: makeup designs, and ultimately they made one last Hail Mary pitch.

701
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: They went back to Dick Xanik at Fox, who immediately

702
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: forbade them from bringing up Apes, and then undeterred, they

703
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: bluffed their way into a meeting with a presentation of

704
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: how well these different sci fi films have been doing

705
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: at the box office, and Xanik said, come back in

706
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: four weeks to see if this is still like a

707
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: trend that's continuing at the box office. He actually said

708
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: in their meeting, I give you three minutes, and this

709
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: is the last time, because I'm really bored with it.

710
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: So they came back and with the box office trend

711
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 1: continuing apace, and he finally greenlit the film at Fox

712
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: with a provision that they could bring it to around

713
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: five million dollars as its budget.

714
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: Production designer William Kreeber was tasked with creating the literal

715
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 2: titular planet.

716
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 1: Which planet was that Haigo monkey planet.

717
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: He've worked on a number of sci fi properties on

718
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: Tea like Lost in Space, Voys to the Bottom of

719
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: the Sea, and The Time Tunnel.

720
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: It would eventually go on to the big.

721
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: Screen with The Poseidon Adventure and The Towering Inferno Incredible

722
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: Movies both. His biggest task was to whittle the sets

723
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 2: down from Serling's proposed.

724
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: Ape City to the film's eventual look. He and associate

725
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: producer More Abraham poured through architectural books and stumbled on

726
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: the Spanish architect Gouty and his churches, which had nature

727
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: inspired forms a sensibility. They combined with.

728
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: The real life rock cut architecture of Cappadocia in central

729
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 2: Turkey that dated back to the first century AD.

730
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really crazy. Like if you look up pictures

731
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: of this region of Turkey and it's like it looks

732
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: like the planet of the Apes. They're just these kind

733
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: of like I don't want to say crude because they

734
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: were building, like they had like full buildings and churches

735
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: and stuff, but they're just hewn out of rock.

736
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: I mean for a production that's trying to keep an

737
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: eye on its budget, using as a design of inspiration Goudy,

738
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 2: the guy who designed the church that took something like

739
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 2: one hundred and something years to build in Barcelona. That's

740
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: the grout A Familia.

741
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe isn't the ones you gold to go? Well,

742
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: where do you explain how they got around that? Jordan? Okay,

743
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: all right.

744
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 2: Having arrived at a design theme, they decided to speck

745
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: it out. Wood was initially considered, but that was costly,

746
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 2: so they decided on polyarthane foam, which was cheaper and lighter.

747
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: Head of studio construction Ivan Martin explained to American Cinematographer

748
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: magazine in nineteen sixty eight the material is NKC coorophoam,

749
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 2: a combination of resin and a catalyst. When these are

750
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: fired under pressure from a gun, the mix rises like

751
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: bread dough. Then the heat quickly dissipates, and within ten

752
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: minutes it's cold and solid. Using Creeper's designs, they designed

753
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: the city with thin iron rods, which they'd cover with

754
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 2: cardboard and craft paper. They'd spray the whole thing and

755
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: peel off the paper, leave them with structures to paint

756
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 2: and dress. Not unlike I'm getting paper mache vibes here.

757
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, like crude children structures which then they'd paint

758
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: and they go ye and make look like rock. The

759
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: opening sequence of the movie was filmed near Lake Powell, Arizona,

760
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: and cut together with a man made pool that was

761
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: actually reused from Arthur Jacob's previous production Doctor Doolittle. All

762
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: I wonder if they used any like animals or anything

763
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: from Doctor Doolittle. Maybe some horses, oh maybe, Yeah, And

764
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: they also filmed at the waterfall at the Fox Studio

765
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: a lot for the sand in which Charlton Heston is

766
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: being chased by mounted apes. That's correct.

767
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: They literally just grew a field of corn on the

768
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: Fox Ranch studios.

769
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: It's so funny. In the movie they talk about like, yeah,

770
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: we needed to be like about six feet high, and

771
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: they like they grew a field of corn with like

772
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: fertilizer and water, and it actually went up to eight

773
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: feet tall. And they're like, uh, what do we do?

774
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: And I forget if it was the director or the

775
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 1: or zanak, but he was like, cut it down to

776
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: six feet. So they grew and trimmed an entire field

777
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: of corn on the Fox back lot for this.

778
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: To me, the Fox back lot, which was this huge

779
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: expanse of land I think out by Malibu, was to

780
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: me best known as the where they shot some of

781
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: the exteriors for mash and I'm sure many other things,

782
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: which casting a Sundance Kid, some old Tarzan movies from

783
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: the thirties. Yeah, I guess those are the big ones.

784
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: And of course this brings us to the film's final

785
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: beach scene, which was filmed on a stretch of California

786
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: Sea coast between Malibu and Axnard, with one hundred and

787
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: thirty foot cliffs. It was so inaccessible that the cast crew,

788
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: film equipment, and yes, even the horses had to be

789
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: lowered in by.

790
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: Helicopter and mules. They took a lot of mules out there.

791
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: The remains of the Statue of Liberty were shot in

792
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: a secluded cove on the far eastern end of Westward

793
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: Beach in Malibu, between Zuma Beaches and Point Doom. And

794
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: that's also where the end of Barton Fink and whatever

795
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: happened to Baby Jane was filmed, as well as bits

796
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: of airplane. I believe that's a storied location. Yeah, weird energy.

797
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 2: In that location, costumes were coming together thanks to the

798
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 2: awesomely named Morton Hawk, who quickly abandoned the idea of

799
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: having the apes dressed in suits or dresses because that

800
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: just would have been hilarious. He suggested grouping the apes

801
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 2: by clothing color instead, chimps and green orangutangs in brownish orange,

802
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 2: and gorillas and black. Associate producer Morton Abraham were called Bill.

803
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: Must have submitted fifty to seventy five drawings. Thankfully, he

804
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: was working on these designs as the set was still

805
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: coming together, which helped him kind of craft the colors

806
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,479
Speaker 2: of the outfits to the colors and textures of the set.

807
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: Yes, the real star of this department was John Chambers,

808
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: ultimately the first person ever awarded a special Oscar just

809
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,959
Speaker 1: for makeup. Chambers was a jewelry designer and carpenter before

810
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: he joined the army and wound up as a dental technician.

811
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: While enlisted, he developed a new line of adhesives and

812
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: rubber compounds, which ultimately ended up in the service of

813
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: creating prosthetic devices for those wounded in war. Haunted by

814
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: the cost of dealing so intimately with another person's tragedy,

815
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: he turned to the television industry for a respite, which

816
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: was an error. It was in this capacity that he

817
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: first worked with Heston, transforming him into the Beast for

818
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: a Shirley Temple production of Beauty and the Beast. Just

819
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: imagine craggy like, lantern jawed Chuck Heston romancing sort of

820
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: Shirley Temple gives me a deep chill. Chambers also worked

821
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: in a huge swath of the fifties and sixties sci

822
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: fi boom on TV Outer Limit. He crafted Spock's ears

823
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: on Star Trek, whoa worked on The Munsters, Lost in Space,

824
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 1: The Invaders, and Rod Serling's Night Gallery. My favorite quote

825
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: in this piece is that he was set to go

826
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: to London and research the ape makeup that Stanley Kubrick

827
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 1: was using to film two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey.

828
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: Though Kubrick backed out of the arrangement, he was famously

829
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: weird and secretive and concerned that this might have been

830
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: a conflict of interest. Chambers, for his part, responded thusly,

831
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: I backed out of the whole idea as a personal affront.

832
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: I'm an Irishman, and I said, anytime an Englishman can

833
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: teach me anything, it's going to be a cold day

834
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: in hell. Chambers was tackling the ape makeup from an

835
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: unusual if iconic source, Jack Dawn's Cowardly Lion makeup for

836
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: Bert Lair and Wizard of Oz, which allowed Lair to

837
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: still make his trademark comical facial expression based on how

838
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: the appliance was mounted to his face. Chambers said, to

839
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: arrive at our final concept, we turned to sculpturing. We

840
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: would take a base human head in plast and then

841
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: in clay model. On this head are ape variations. We

842
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 1: came up with how things looked like the Neanderthal man

843
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: and so forth, which we discarded. The concepts were too ambiguous.

844
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 1: We needed the pleasantness yet the strength of the animal

845
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: without being too grotesque. The set designer in the documentary

846
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: says that one day he came into the makeup department

847
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: and they had just a live chimp there hanging out

848
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,479
Speaker 1: to model it on. Chambers' practical concerns for the makeup

849
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 1: were twofold. One that the mask wouldn't muffle the actors' voices,

850
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: which meant using material light enough to let it escape

851
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: from under the makeup, and two that the makeup's lips

852
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: were synchronized with the actors, so they had to glue

853
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: the inside of the processes directly to their lips and

854
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: jaw muscles so that the outside of the mask would

855
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: wrinkle and crease realistically. And then they had to make

856
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: the whole thing visually appealing as well. Chambers said that

857
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: they had to modify the sort of wrinkle structure that

858
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: go into apes faces to make them not just look

859
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: like horrifying the age humans, and the fact that their nostril,

860
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: their nose structure looked like giant slits in the middle

861
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: of their face, so seeing that enlarged to a talking

862
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: human scale would have been similarly horrifying. So they small

863
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: and smallish. They smallish to them down Jesus.

864
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 3: I mean, I.

865
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: Wonder if there was any considerations to the fact that,

866
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: you know, you were paying top dollar for decent level stars,

867
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: you didn't want to completely obscure their faces entirely.

868
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the funniest bits in the documentary was

869
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: them talking about how like they quickly learned that you

870
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: couldn't keep your face still in a scene, like if

871
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: the camera was on you. They would kind of have

872
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: to be using constantly, like moving their face around in

873
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: these like weird over exaggerated contortions so that that would

874
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: translate through the makeup and the makeup wouldn't just look

875
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: like a still static mask. So like Roddy McDowell and

876
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: Kim Hunter talk about just like making these comical faces

877
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: under eth all the makeup and then when it translates

878
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: through the makeup, it just happens to look like expressions

879
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: of interest or what have you. And they eventually landed

880
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: on a multi piece latex appliance for the forehead nose, mouth,

881
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: and chin, and then they coated with they plastered the

882
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: whole thing together. They made individual molds of the various

883
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: parts of each lead actor's face and built multiple latex

884
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 1: appliances from them. And this is really the big revolution

885
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: that was taking place in makeup around this time. It

886
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 1: Dick Smith was doing this with Little Big Man, where

887
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: instead of just doing these big, one piece appliances, the

888
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: solution was to do many small pieces that were individually

889
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: placed according to like facial muscles, so that you could

890
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: get as much individual movement out of it. And now

891
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: they just do it in a computer. They couldn't use

892
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: the same ones twice because the liquid latex bonded to

893
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 1: the foam rubber underside of it, and that tore easily

894
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: and was damaged easily. And the groups of apes in

895
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: the film, each group of apes in the film's makeup

896
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: was designed to highlight character traits. The chimps were supposed

897
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 1: to look sympathetic and kind of cherubic. The gorilla's makeup

898
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: was actually they made the gorillas look meaner than they

899
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: do in real life. And the orangutangs had this naturally,

900
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: as in the real animal have this kind of aristocratic

901
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: bearing actors came to the makeup trailer before dawn and

902
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: had the makeup appliances placed over their faces, covered in

903
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: a cream inside to protect them from the spirit gum

904
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: that glued these things to the actors. Because the spirit

905
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 1: gum was so concentrated at this point, was like both

906
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,439
Speaker 1: abrasive to sensitive skin and would like the fumes would

907
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: like get them, you know, somewhat high as they were

908
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: working on it. Once the appliance was in place, Chambers

909
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: used grease paint to blend the mask with the actor's

910
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: skin and applied the wig, which was a set of

911
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: side burns on the face and a bald cap with

912
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: a wig glued to it over their natural hair. They

913
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: then got rubber ears and false teeth, and then their

914
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: natural teeth were painted black so they wouldn't show up

915
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: on camera. Given the amount of apes on the film,

916
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 1: which included like up to two hundred for some group scenes,

917
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: Chambers whittled down the total amount of time to apply

918
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: the makeup from six hours to a slightly more reasonable

919
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: three three and a half. Frequently, in the run up

920
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: to this movie was crowed that they spent like a

921
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: million dollars on makeup alone, but Abraham said it was

922
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: closer to half that. So it's like five million today. Yeah,

923
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, still an egregious amount of money

924
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: for monkey makeup. At this point in the production, they

925
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: only had Charlton heston lockdown. Jeez. So all this time

926
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: developing this makeup and they had no idea who they

927
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: were going to put it on. Essentially, yeah, great.

928
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 2: They filled the role of Zira with Kim Hunter, who'd

929
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: had a promising career in Hollywood starring opposite Marlon Brando

930
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: in the Broadway and feature film version of a street

931
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 2: car name Desire before being.

932
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: Blacklisted by McCarthy running theme.

933
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, producer Arthur Jacobs actually helped get her off the

934
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 2: blacklist through some weird back channels.

935
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: Do you have any further info on that. She has

936
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: this long anecdote in the book about the films where

937
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: she basically says like Jacobs got a call from someone

938
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: that was like, if you cast Kim Hunter, you'll never

939
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: work in this industry again, like trying to threaten him

940
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: out of casting her and keep her on the blacklist,

941
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: And they eventually got into some kind of like pseudo

942
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: extortion scheme where they like found the master keeper of

943
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: the Blacklist, and the guy was like, you have to

944
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 1: pay me two hundred dollars to find out the reason

945
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: you're on this And it just turned into this whole

946
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: like byzantine. This is like a page long story in

947
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: the book. It's like the most Kim Hunter talks. And

948
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: it was this whole byzantine thing that took place over

949
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: like phone calls and letters and this whole like shadowy,

950
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 1: weird thing where this guy was trying to get money

951
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: out of them to like pull her off the Blacklist

952
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: or even reveal the reason that she'd been blacklisted in

953
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: the first place. And she wound up off it and

954
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: acting in this movie. And what a hell of a career.

955
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: You go from freaking opposite Brando in Streetcar to Monkey Makeup.

956
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: You got a claw your way back from the Blacklist somehow.

957
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I realized it was an actual

958
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 2: literal list that was kept by a presumably a guy.

959
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it has to be locked in McCarthy's, Like

960
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: it was like locked in McCarthy's cupboard somewhere, and this

961
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: guy just found it and was like, I can squeeze

962
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars out of these Hollywood roots got.

963
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: Kim Hunter had not read Bull's original book when she

964
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: was cast, and ultimately did not, hoping to avoid picking

965
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 2: up anything in the book that wouldn't appear on screen, which,

966
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 2: as we discussed earlier, it was a lot.

967
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: Roddy McDowell was cast next. Everybody loves Roddy McDowell.

968
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: Good friend of Elizabeth Taylor and certain circle of Hollywood women.

969
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 2: He was famous for throwing dinner parties, and after he died,

970
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: his very famous bathroom in his home was placed in

971
00:53:58,640 --> 00:53:59,280
Speaker 2: a museum.

972
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just remember him from Fright Night, the eighties

973
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: movie where he plays like he plays like a horror

974
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: movie presenter who mass grades is a vampire hunter, and

975
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,959
Speaker 1: then they enlist him to be an actual vampire hunter.

976
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 1: He's great in it anyway.

977
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 2: Yes, the Hollywood History Museum at the Max Factor Studio

978
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 2: is preserved for future generations to enjoy. You can use

979
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 2: Roddy McDowell's bathroom.

980
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: I enjoyed this. I went, I paid money to go there.

981
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you've got I try, Yes, I have.

982
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 1: It's very good anyway.

983
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: Roddy McDowell was cast as Zero's fiance Cornelius.

984
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: Incidentally no one in production cared.

985
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 2: Whether the apes would have consistent accents or not. It

986
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: was just so burnt out on the makeup. But like

987
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 2: a talk over, you want, I don't. Just let's just

988
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 2: get this gone. Ask me about the accents now. Frank

989
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: Schaffner and I talked about it an ape with an

990
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: English accent for about thirty seconds. This is Roddy McDowell talking,

991
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: and we thought, no, no, this is more. Abraham's associate producer,

992
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 2: Martin Abraham, said, Frank Schafter and I talked about an

993
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 2: ape with an English accent for about thirty seconds, and

994
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 2: we thought, no, Roddy McDowell would be so good, and

995
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: nobody's going to pay any attention to the accent.

996
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: An ape with an English accent is pretty hilarious. It

997
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: is naturally funny. It seems like it should have been

998
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: like a bigger cornerstone of British comedy. Like their whole

999
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: thing was cross dressing. But they really could have gotten

1000
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: so much more mileage out of species dressing. Species dressing, yeah,

1001
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: ape dressing. I was trying to make a drag ape

1002
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: thing but it didn't really work, so just move on.

1003
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't know who they went who they

1004
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: were looking for. After Edward g. Robinson was like, I

1005
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: will literally die if you put me in this makeup

1006
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: for an entire film shooting. Oh god. And then he

1007
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 1: clung on for like another twenty years. But they landed

1008
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: Maurice Evans, another British guy who became an American citizen

1009
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: right as World War Two was hopping up, and then

1010
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: he started appearing in plays and TV roles throughout the fifties.

1011
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: I don't know anything else about this guy. I mean,

1012
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: this is making me think of in the Wizard of

1013
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: Oz the Tin Man, when they almost killed Buddy EPs

1014
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: and the original tin Man. Oh yeah, by just painting

1015
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: him with actual silver paint. Yeah, that just like coated

1016
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: his lungs and he was like, oh, I'm gonna die,

1017
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: I will die. Put me in an oxygen tent. Yeah.

1018
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: And then not only did they almost kill him, they

1019
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: took his role away and learned from their mistake and

1020
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: gave Ray Bulger I think no he was yah, Yeah,

1021
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: gave the new guy a less deadly makeup treatment. I

1022
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: actually I did Maurice Evans dirty here. He Oh he

1023
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: wasn't bewitched, playing a character named Maurice. Uh. But he

1024
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 1: had done a bunch of stuff in the old vic.

1025
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: He was like peers with Olivier. Oh he's in Rosemary's Baby.

1026
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's like one of the neighbor he's one

1027
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: of the good neighbors. No good for you, Mary Sevans,

1028
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: I was not familiar with your game.

1029
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: Getting back to the tin Man for a minute, the

1030
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 2: part actually went to Jack Haley, not Roy Bulger. And

1031
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 2: that's interesting to me because Jack Hayley's son, Jack Hayley Junior,

1032
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 2: married Liza Minnelli, who's Judy Garland's daughter. So the daughter

1033
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 2: of Dorothy and the daughter of the tin Man got

1034
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 2: married in real life for like ninety days in the

1035
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 2: studio fifty four era.

1036
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: Is that weird? Interesting? I think it's smacks of like

1037
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: arranged marriage, which I sort of hate. But sure, trauma bonding, Yeah,

1038
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: that's more likely explanation.

1039
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, they lasted from seventy four to seventy nine.

1040
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: I take it back in Liza and Liza realm. That's

1041
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 2: a long marriage.

1042
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: Oh well, hell are Oh?

1043
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 2: The ape actors, that's another inherently funny term, found themselves

1044
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 2: in these similar straits of not being able to figure

1045
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: out how to play a humanoid ape. McDowell said he

1046
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 2: based some of his eight Movements on Groucho Marx and

1047
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 2: took it to Kim Hunter. They also took a trip

1048
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 2: to the Zoo, which they found very quickly was not

1049
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: that helpful.

1050
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: Mcdalell said, the characters we were playing were much more

1051
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: evolved than the ones you see in the zoo. Yeah,

1052
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: they talk. That's why I hit upon the idea of

1053
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: the sort of crouch and using the knees. It's very,

1054
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: very tiring to stand that way. This next part kills

1055
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: me because, oh you take this well. Poor Kim Hunter

1056
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: did not have a good time making this movie. McDowell

1057
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,919
Speaker 1: thought he would be affected because he was slightly laustrophobic.

1058
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: He said he didn't even like the idea of having

1059
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: a pillow over his face, so he was unsure of

1060
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: how you cope with the makeup. But he got to

1061
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: the point where you could just sleep through the whole thing,

1062
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: while Kim Hunter had to take a valium to sit

1063
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: through it. And similarly, they had different reactions the first

1064
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: time they appeared on set in makeup. Mort Abraham said

1065
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: that McDowell came onto set and just acted like a

1066
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: chin for fifteen minutes, letting his arms dangle at his

1067
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: sides and scratching his armpits. He put his tongue underneath

1068
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: his upper lip and started making jabbering noises while jumping

1069
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: with two feet. Meanwhile, Kim Hunter approached mort Abraham's on

1070
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: the set and broke down in tears in his arms

1071
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: for ten minutes.

1072
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 3: Which.

1073
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: Which Abraham said, pretty much ruined the makeup. Yeah, poor

1074
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: Kim Hunter is just like she talks about like having

1075
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: like ego death because in this specific moment, she was

1076
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: walking with another actress and when Abraham's greeted her, he

1077
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: was like, hey, I'm sorry, I don't know which one

1078
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: of you is Kim Hunter, and she just like broke

1079
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: down into tears at the enormity of that statement. And

1080
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: then later would have the like she would like go

1081
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: to her trailer and have these like horrifying existential moments

1082
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: where she was like starting to she would dream that

1083
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: she was an ape. It's just like, come on, lady.

1084
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: The making of this seems like a French existentialist novel,

1085
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: especially the outside parts where they were just like out

1086
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: in the middle of Arizona. It is like one hundred

1087
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: and ten degrees, not much interesting about Linda Harrison, who

1088
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: plays the human Lady Nova. Might not be surprising for

1089
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: you to learn that she was Richard Zane's then girlfriend,

1090
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: and he was the head of Fox at the time,

1091
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: and she was cast at his suggestion. They shot and

1092
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: subsequently cut a scene though, in which she was revealed

1093
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: to be pregnant by Taylor, and then they cut that

1094
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: out of fear that they were pushing things too far.

1095
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: They were like, wow, we've already got an eight movie.

1096
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: That'll be you know, thinly veiled allegory for racism in

1097
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: class in America. Let's keep abortion out of it. Kim

1098
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: Hunter remembers the following about Harrison. I remember her in

1099
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: relation to the valume I used to take to relax

1100
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: because of the makeup. She asked what my strength was.

1101
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: It was five milligrams or whatever, and she said, oh

1102
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: my god, that little I never go to sleep without

1103
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: ten at least, I guess when you're sleeping next to

1104
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: Dick xannit. They got married. Good for them? How long?

1105
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: Nine years? Oh it's okay, okay, what else? Did she

1106
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: even do something about Batman? Okay? Oh?

1107
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: She was a cheer She was cheerleader number two on

1108
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 2: the Batman series. So yes, technically something with Batman.

1109
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: Man banging Dick Xanik only gets you two roles in

1110
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: Fox movies.

1111
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: Oh, she was woman in cart in Tim Burton's remake

1112
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 2: of Planet of the Apes.

1113
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: Okay, okay. Oh she was in Cocoon and Cocoon, the

1114
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: return Cocoon harder, A good day to Cocoon, Back in

1115
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: the Cocoon, back in the Cocuon. Yeah, I feel like

1116
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: we should start using beneath the as the secret construction

1117
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: Sister Act two, beneath the habit, beneath the Planet of

1118
01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: the Sister Act, anyway, beneath the Immediately, the film immediately

1119
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: got behind beneath the Diety. As you meditate on that,

1120
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more too much information.

1121
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 3: After these messages, the.

1122
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: Film immediately got behind schedule on its first day of shooting,

1123
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: which was at the Grand Canyon and the desert surrounding

1124
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: Page Arizona, because a Heston was the only person quite

1125
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: sensibly pushing for beards on the Astronaut and they're woken

1126
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: up to indicate the passage of time, and they had

1127
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: not packed beards, even though he drew his own and

1128
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: b all the ape makeup had been left in Phoenix,

1129
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: where they landed before taking a puddle jumper to Page,

1130
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: so then they had to charter a separate plane to

1131
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: take them from Page to Phoenix to pick up the

1132
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: makeup that they had left behind and then go back

1133
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: to Page. The makeup became like an army that they

1134
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: had to feed throughout the entire shoot. I mentioned earlier

1135
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: that they were up to two hundred apes that needed

1136
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: makeup in some of these different group scenes, and there

1137
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: was an eighty person strong team dedicated to maintaining the makeup, appliances,

1138
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: hair and wardrobe, which actually caused a rippled delay through

1139
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: Hollywood as other productions couldn't hire qualified makeup artists because

1140
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 1: everyone else was working on apes. The makeup was put

1141
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: above virtually everything else, including the actors. Actors had to

1142
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: use cigarette holders and subsisted on liquid diets through a straw,

1143
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: and when they did eat solid food, they had to

1144
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: eat staring at themselves in a mirror so they could

1145
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: guide the food past the appliance and into their mouth.

1146
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: That's the most horrifying part of this entire ordeal that

1147
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 2: you've described as this watching yourself intently eat.

1148
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. As an Ape. Yeah, as an ape. Yeah, the

1149
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: other Kim Hunter had Ego death. The early Astronaut sequences

1150
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: were shot around Lake Polo on the Colorado River in

1151
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: Utah and Arizona, a spot that NASA, along with nearby

1152
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: Glen Canyon, as the closest representation of the lunar surface

1153
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: that could be found on Earth, which should interest you

1154
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: as a space guy. I was gonna say very much so,

1155
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: although I mean, yeah, there's a lot of rocks here.

1156
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: Eh oh works like yeah, I mean it's either this

1157
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: or the what's the famous one in Utah. It's like

1158
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: a red red rocks thing that always stands in for Mars.

1159
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forget what it's called. I know what

1160
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: you mean. Apes was also the first time that the

1161
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,959
Speaker 1: government allowed anything to be shot near Glen Canyon Dam,

1162
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: which supplied power to most of the Southwest. It was

1163
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: desolate and extremely hot. Jeff Burton, who played the astronaut Dodge,

1164
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: fainted at one point, and given these circumstances, it may

1165
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: shock you to learn that the mummified corpse of the

1166
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: dead astronaut that they find in stasis was a real

1167
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: woman and not a model. Heston later quipped, it has

1168
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 1: to be the only seventy year old woman who ever

1169
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: played an astronaut. Paus for applause. Yeah. Uh. They got

1170
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: into an early stalemate with Fox over the amount of

1171
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: time time that director Franklin J. Shaffner was spending shooting

1172
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: the landscape there. Like basically Zanak was like, I will

1173
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: not give you another day to shoot this landscape, and

1174
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: they just kept begging, we need more shots of the

1175
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: landscape because they just wanted to showcase that and really

1176
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: build up to the discovery of the apes. And that

1177
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: opening scene is incredible. There's this amazing moment where they're

1178
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: hiking over a horizon and they get the lens flare

1179
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: from the setting sun is actually like a halo effect

1180
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: around one of the actors, and the camera follows him

1181
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: in such a way that the Lenz flair also follows

1182
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: with him and he remains enclosed in it. Whether it

1183
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: was luck or intentional, it's one of the more incredible

1184
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: shots I've seen because you can also do lens flares

1185
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: digitally now as really fail Sun what's his name, Oh J. J.

1186
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: Abrams eagerly reminds us every time he gets behind a camera.

1187
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: He's a fail Sun. He's a famous Coal was like

1188
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: an exec or something, and he's not a fail siun.

1189
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: He's made tremendously financially successful properties. I just think is

1190
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 1: a hack. They also ran into, let's say, a cultural

1191
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: issue with rounding up extras from Page. The problem was

1192
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: that all of the women of the nearby town were

1193
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: concerned about leaving their homes to act in the movie

1194
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: while their Native American housekeepers were in their houses. One

1195
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: of them finally said, you don't understand, mister Abraham's because

1196
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: you've never been around Indians. You just can't trust these

1197
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: people as far as you can throw them. This woman

1198
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: went into an explanation of Indians, and I thought to myself,

1199
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm in Mississippi. In nineteen thirty five, Producer MORET. Abrahams remembered,

1200
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: you can't walk around Page without seeing Indians. They live

1201
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: all over the place. It was originally Indian Land, but

1202
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: the people of Page had this terribly racist attitude. Great grim, Yeah,

1203
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: I thought we did escape it fitting for that production,

1204
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: I guess, though I know right now. Yeah.

1205
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 2: Eventually getting over that with some creative scheduling, they moved

1206
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 2: on to battling the oppressive heat faced by the actors

1207
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 2: in makeup was Charlton Heston helped by requesting a helicopter

1208
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 2: for the cast to get back and forth from the

1209
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 2: Fox Ranch to Arizona as ahead of the Screen Actors

1210
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 2: Guild at the time.

1211
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: Wow.

1212
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 2: Charlton Heston was also able to push the studio to

1213
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: pay the actors for time they spent in the makeup chair,

1214
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 2: not just for shooting hours.

1215
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: Why is it interesting that they used to like they

1216
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 1: would consider your day that start and end in front

1217
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: of the camera, and even if you were doing three

1218
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: hours in a makeup chair, they were or an hour

1219
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: and a half to remove it afterwards, they were like nope.

1220
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: And I mean Chuck is also he's pretty self aggrandizing,

1221
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: as you would expect from someone who played Moses, but

1222
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 1: he suggests that it was the first time that this

1223
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 1: that he was like, this film was instrumental in getting

1224
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: that changed, So good on him.

1225
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just gotta be wild being an actor

1226
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 2: on the set with the head of the Screen Actors Guild, Like.

1227
01:07:55,240 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: I know, right, like nice, yeah, kick back, hang.

1228
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: Out craft surfaces a little longer than I maybe ordinarily

1229
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 2: would have. They're also constantly revising the actor's technique under

1230
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 2: the makeup. Kim Hunter remembers director Frank Schaffner after seeing

1231
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 2: some dailies, telling them, You've really got to keep those

1232
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 2: facial muscles moving. Otherwise, whenever the camera's on you and

1233
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 2: you're absolutely immobile or at ease listening as people do

1234
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 2: without moving a muscle, it looks like a mask when

1235
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 2: the camera is on you. You've got to be conscious

1236
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 2: of keeping it moving. Roddy McDowell would, when the shoot

1237
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 2: moved to the Fox Studios, sometimes get driven home with

1238
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 2: this full makeup on, obviously scaring the other drivers out

1239
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:38,919
Speaker 2: of their minds.

1240
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 1: I think Abraham says in the documentary that a bunch

1241
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: of the Gorilla actors did that once too, where they

1242
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 1: were just like they were literally driving, and there was

1243
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: four of them in like an Oldsmobile driving down Pch.

1244
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 1: It must have been really one of the joys of

1245
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: being on this movie, just tripping out people in your

1246
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 1: ape makeup. Roddy McDowell also snuck onto the stage where

1247
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: jew Andrews was shooting The movie Star and crawled into

1248
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 1: her dressing room on all fours, dressed as an ape,

1249
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: scaring the hell out of her. That's amazing. Only Rody

1250
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 1: McDow cal pulled that off. Yeah, can you Oh my god,

1251
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: I would have lost my If it was like a

1252
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 1: mid sixties and a chimp crawled into my dressing room,

1253
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 1: I probably would have shot him. Maybe that was why

1254
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: Charlton Heston got involved in the NRA A protection against apes.

1255
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: He glimpsed the future and was deeply worried by what

1256
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: glimpsed back. I gotta do something about these apes. Do

1257
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: you remember the VH one, like one hundred and eight

1258
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: shocking Moments of Rock and Roll when it was like

1259
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: the body Count cop Killer coming out and they just

1260
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: kept running that clip of Heston reading the lyrics out loud,

1261
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 1: it being like, die die Die, Die, Die, Die Die

1262
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: pig die. I was trying to remember, like why I

1263
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 1: had that in my head. It was absolutely from that

1264
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: yep yep yep.

1265
01:09:58,360 --> 01:09:58,799
Speaker 3: Uh.

1266
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: As you note, somewhat creepily, the actors on the set

1267
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 1: began flocking to their own respective ape groups age groups.

1268
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if that was an intentional pun or

1269
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: an actual typo Charlton Heston said, in a sort of

1270
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: unfortunate choice of words, it was an instinctive segregation on set.

1271
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:22,560
Speaker 1: Not only would the apes eat together, but the chimpanzees

1272
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: ate with the chimpanzees, and the gorillas ate with the gorillas.

1273
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: The orangutanks also ate with the orangutangs, and the humans

1274
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 1: we'd eat off by themselves. It was quite spooky. A

1275
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: contested bit of the film.

1276
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,600
Speaker 2: Is shot at Taylor's trial, where the orangutanks make the

1277
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 2: see here Speak No Evil signs, which was a spur

1278
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 2: of the moment bit of onset improv Some people felt

1279
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:50,839
Speaker 2: that it derailed the otherwise serious tone of the film,

1280
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 2: but Dick Xanik and Arthur Jacobs, also known as the

1281
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 2: Guys who held the purse strings for this movie, both

1282
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 2: battled for its inclusion. Kim Hunt and Roddy McDowell, however,

1283
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 2: hated it, and Charlton Heston also wasn't a fan, but

1284
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 2: he caved to the test audiences who loved the bit.

1285
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: What do you think. I think it's funny. I mean,

1286
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: they might linger on it for a beat or two

1287
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: too long, but it is funny. It's like probably the

1288
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: purest moment of comedy, intentional comedy. It is the most

1289
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 1: the purest moment of intentional comedy in the film. I

1290
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: think it's fine.

1291
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: No m you disagree, considering this whole movie is veering

1292
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 2: way too close to you know, comedy at all times.

1293
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 1: I think you got to really commit to the bit

1294
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 1: and keep it straight faced. Yeah, I see that. I

1295
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: do see that. A test audience has loved it, though,

1296
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:48,719
Speaker 1: so you know, what are you gonna do? The people

1297
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:54,679
Speaker 1: have spoken, spoken like a true cigar chopping executive apes

1298
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: was important to remember that it was a total inversion

1299
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: of Heston's image at the time he's playing these you know,

1300
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: with that jaw in that barrel chest. He was always

1301
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 1: playing leaders and heroes, and in this movie he's just

1302
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 1: absolutely bodied by ape after ape after ape. He would

1303
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: later remember, I didn't realize until we got into it

1304
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: that almost throughout the whole picture people were chasing me

1305
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: or throwing things at me, or hitting me with sticks,

1306
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 1: or hosing me with water, or pushing me around or

1307
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: tying me up. I was constantly being mistreated. I had

1308
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: done a lot of pictures on horses driven chariots, part

1309
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: of the Red Sea, a horse or a chariot, and

1310
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 1: you're an important person here I'm being chased by monkeys,

1311
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: for God's sakes, And believe me, even rubber rocks hurt Tah.

1312
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 1: In his journal, he notes his stunt double on the film,

1313
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 1: guy named Joe Cannet, after a long day of this treatment,

1314
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: quipped to him, you know, Chuck, I remember when we

1315
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 1: used to win these fights.

1316
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 2: Oh man, that's les like a cut line from Once

1317
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:52,640
Speaker 2: upon a Time in Hollywood.

1318
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 1: That's good. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And in the

1319
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:58,839
Speaker 1: ultimate indignity, they made little flesh looking booties for Heston

1320
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 1: to wear while running around the set and dirt paths

1321
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: because his character was ostensibly barefoot. And he actually got

1322
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: the flu from the sort of what we mentioned on

1323
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: the thing of the kind of constant yin yang of

1324
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: being outside and boiling heat and then like in an

1325
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,879
Speaker 1: air condition setting, and he got the flu right before

1326
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: he was supposed to film the damn dirty ape line.

1327
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: And that's why his voice sounds absolutely like shot. And

1328
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 1: it's not just that he's like putting his full chest

1329
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 1: of like disgust and bile into it. It's that his

1330
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: voice was like physically run ragged. He also what's also

1331
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 1: really funny to me, what this film historian points out

1332
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: in the documentary is that this was like the first

1333
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: serious film that had apes in it since like King

1334
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 1: Kong and Mighty Joe Young because like, once they had

1335
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 1: developed the gorilla suit, it quickly became just an object

1336
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 1: of comedy, like Benny Hill running around a gorilla suit,

1337
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: and like all these b movies that were made, like

1338
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: Gorilla at Large, which weirdly enough starred Raymond Burr Ann Bancroft.

1339
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 1: So this movie was really, you know, quintessential in restoring

1340
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:10,759
Speaker 1: cinematic dignity to the mighty ape.

1341
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 2: Raymond Burr as in Perry Mason, I guess he kind

1342
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 2: of seems.

1343
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 1: Like seems like he track down an ape.

1344
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm incapable of determining whether or not a

1345
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 2: movie with a gorilla and it is supposed to be

1346
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:24,839
Speaker 2: a comedy.

1347
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 1: Slee Arvin was in it, so was Lee Cobb who

1348
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 1: Lee J. Cobb was in on the Waterfront, And oh

1349
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 1: he originated the role of Willie Lowman. That's why I

1350
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 1: know that name the.

1351
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:43,719
Speaker 2: Prestige drama to gorilla movie pipeline, I know.

1352
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:46,759
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And Cameron Mitchell had appeared in the movie

1353
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: adaptation of Death of a Salesman and Bancroft, of course,

1354
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 1: went on to win an Academy Award for Miracle Worker.

1355
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: The Gorilla was played by George Barrows, who was acting

1356
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 1: a gorilla suit specialist. You can believe it or not.

1357
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: He often is this is this This is the first

1358
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 1: draft of his wiki article. He often wore a gorilla

1359
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 1: suit for his film roles. Excluding his gorilla roles, Barrows

1360
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 1: usually played bit parts in films and was rarely credited

1361
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: for his work. Oh, he built his own gorilla suit

1362
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: for Gorilla at Large.

1363
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 2: That's how to make sure. That's how to future proof yourself.

1364
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 2: Build your own gorilla suit.

1365
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: He also played a gorilla in an episode of The

1366
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: Incredible Hulk. Yeah, Oh my God. Gorilla in the movie

1367
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 1: Hillbillys in a Haunted Place, Baby gorilla in a Baby,

1368
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 1: the gorilla in The Man from Uncle Hill, Gorilla in

1369
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills I'm Not Done. A gorilla in The

1370
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:49,719
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Billies, a gorilla in The Adams Family something,

1371
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,679
Speaker 1: a character called Monstro, the godzilla in the nineteen sixty

1372
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,040
Speaker 1: six film The Ghost in the Invisible Bikini.

1373
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a classic beach party movie. Yeah, that's the

1374
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:00,759
Speaker 2: last of the Aipe beach party films. Yeah, it seems

1375
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 2: like that's when he really doubled down on the gorilla thing.

1376
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't you. I sure would. You're known as

1377
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:13,640
Speaker 1: the gorilla guys. Get me, the gorilla guy. I've had

1378
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,440
Speaker 1: enough with your cheap, second string non union gorillas.

1379
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 3: Get me.

1380
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 1: George Barrows. A gorilla shaped phone lights up in his

1381
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 1: house where he's been sitting. He's been sitting motionless, like

1382
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: like Puddy and Seinfeld, just like alone and motionless in

1383
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: his apartment. The ape phone lights up, and he turns

1384
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 1: toward it, and he's like, at last a reason.

1385
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 2: He's in the entire gorilla suit except for the head. Yeah,

1386
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 2: pulls the loaded gun out of his mouth. I'm sure

1387
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:42,639
Speaker 2: he was a lovely man.

1388
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 1: Ah, what sound does the gorilla phone make? You're not

1389
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: going to get me to do a monkey impression on this,

1390
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,640
Speaker 1: although it is well. I'll talk about that later. There

1391
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: were a few different versions of the Statue of Liberty

1392
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:57,559
Speaker 1: scene being bandied around. Apparently quite a few people involved

1393
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 1: in production thought that Taylor should have been wounded by

1394
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 1: the Apes in a final confrontation and just die in

1395
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 1: front of the Statue of Liberty after his big moment,

1396
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: which I think would have enhanced the film like a peta. Yeah, yeah,

1397
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: just it'd be better if he was cradled by an

1398
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 1: ape in front of the statue liberty zero. Yeah, yes,

1399
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 1: actually that kind of I agree with you. That's a

1400
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: better ending. Come on. It's funny because Heston refers to

1401
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: the He refers to it as the speech that I

1402
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: wrote and actually had to battle for the use of

1403
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 1: God to stay in there. He made an edge case

1404
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 1: that it wasn't being used as the profanity damn, but

1405
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 1: as his character Taylor literally imploring God to damn all

1406
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 1: of humanity to hell. I mentioned Heston's journal earlier and

1407
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,839
Speaker 1: it is so hilarious. He describes the weather one morning thusly,

1408
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: the fog didn't creep in on little cat feet. It

1409
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: squatted sullenly on the sand all morning. That sounds like

1410
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 1: something out of a good day for banana fish or

1411
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:04,719
Speaker 1: something like aw. Yeah. In the documentary Behind the Planet

1412
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: of the Apes, we see how the shot of the

1413
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: half buried statue was achieved. They basically just blended a

1414
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:13,639
Speaker 1: matte painting with the existing rock structures for the far shots,

1415
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 1: but they also wanted to have an anticipatory shot that

1416
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 1: would be seen from the POV of the statue, essentially

1417
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 1: as Taylor and Nova approach on horseback. So what they

1418
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 1: did there was just build a seventy foot scaffold. Again,

1419
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:29,879
Speaker 1: this is over the beach and the cliffs and the ocean,

1420
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,719
Speaker 1: and then they built a half scale paper mache model

1421
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: of the statue of Liberty's head and just shot the

1422
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 1: camera angled downwards above it. I think it was Jacobs

1423
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: who said in the documentary he was like, we built

1424
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: this whole thing in my first ad. Or the cematography

1425
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: guy was like, I'm nearing seventy I'm not getting up

1426
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 1: on that thing. And then like three other people refused

1427
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 1: to do it, so it was just came down to

1428
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: Frank Schaffner and I think Dick Jacob's on top of

1429
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 1: this seventy foot scaffold. Our man Jerry gold Smith turned

1430
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 1: into Score planned into the Apes. Score is pretty standard

1431
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:08,640
Speaker 1: orchestral stuff, big orchestral things inspired by like Stravinsky and

1432
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:11,719
Speaker 1: bar Talk, but it's notable for its use of bizarre

1433
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 1: percussion instruments. They used like metal mixing bowls and lots

1434
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: of different ethnic percussion liberally treated with echoplex. You can

1435
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 1: hear this best during the chase scenes. The chase scene

1436
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: early on where it's like peak bomb, like all these different,

1437
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 1: very weird percussions stuff. And that was because they had

1438
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: a guy named Emil Richards who is like one of

1439
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 1: the most legendary percussionists of time. I guess he played

1440
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 1: with Charles Mingus and George Shearing. He toured with George Harrison,

1441
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,880
Speaker 1: recorded with Frank Sinatra, Frank Zappa, Doris Day, Judy Garland,

1442
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 1: Steely Dan, and Sarah Vaughan. And this is what's really interesting.

1443
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 1: He was interested in pitched percussion, and so he subsequently

1444
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:56,560
Speaker 1: spent time with Harry Parch, who is this insane outsider

1445
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:01,240
Speaker 1: figure in twentieth century music. Parts was concerned with working

1446
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: outside of the Western tempered scale, which music theory wont.

1447
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: Alex's music theory wont corner. The way that there are

1448
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:15,560
Speaker 1: standard eight tone scale works is by squashing the frequency

1449
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 1: ratios that naturally occur with certain frequencies, right, like they're

1450
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 1: in non tempered tuning, they're even ratios, right, And then

1451
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,719
Speaker 1: going back to Pythagoras, he invented this tuning system where

1452
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:31,600
Speaker 1: the intervals between the frequencies are made uneven, they're like

1453
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 1: three to two instead of So what that essentially does

1454
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 1: is cram too many notes into the seven tones. Of

1455
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: the major scale, the route through seven and then the octave,

1456
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 1: and so a bunch of different guys from Harry parts

1457
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 1: on were like, no, that's not the way they should sound.

1458
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 1: And that's what just intonation is is a tuning system

1459
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 1: in which you get an instrument and adjust its mechanisms

1460
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 1: to be able to play outside of this tempered scale.

1461
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 1: And on the guitar you have to move the frets around.

1462
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,040
Speaker 1: On a piano, you have to retune it. You can

1463
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 1: technically do it on a fretless instrument, like you could

1464
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: technically play with just intonation on a fretless instrument, but

1465
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 1: you Harry Partsch and early experiments with this just had

1466
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: to build their own instruments. Parch had this one thing

1467
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: build out of like trash and tuned bits of metal

1468
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 1: that could play a scale of forty three tones. And

1469
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: he was also homeless for most of his life. He

1470
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 1: would literally hobo around America with his collection of instructions

1471
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 1: for how to build his instruments and how to maintain

1472
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 1: these systems, and Emil Richards just hung out with this guy.

1473
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 1: Richard's other credits include the bongos on the theme song

1474
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 1: for Mission Impossible. He finger snapped on the Adams Family theme,

1475
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: and that is him playing xylophone in the theme to

1476
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,559
Speaker 1: The Simpsons. I just love that. I love how much

1477
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 1: work and varied experience that these session guys could get

1478
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 1: in their careers. Some of the ape sounds that you

1479
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 1: hear in the score are played by a Brazilian instrument

1480
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 1: called a kuka, which is a pitch drum that has

1481
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: like a rod basically inserted through the bottom and up

1482
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: into the backside of the drumhead. And by pushing on

1483
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 1: this rod and rubbing the drumhead, you can create these

1484
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 1: weird pitch variances in the tone of the drum. And

1485
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 1: the way it's used in Brazilian music is to as percussively,

1486
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,639
Speaker 1: and you can hear it American is just can best

1487
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:24,680
Speaker 1: hear it in Me and Julio down by the schoolyard.

1488
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 1: So all of the little in the background of me

1489
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:33,679
Speaker 1: and Julio are this instrument, the kuika, and they used

1490
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 1: it in Planet of the Apes to make like ape

1491
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: pooting sound effects that they mix into the chase scene. Anyway,

1492
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: Alex's sound theory corner over.

1493
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 2: Your interpretation of a Quico is so much better than

1494
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 2: Me and Julio down by the school yard.

1495
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:55,720
Speaker 1: I probably just gonna leave it with that. There's a

1496
01:22:55,760 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 1: really funny there's a great live Miles set at Isle

1497
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 1: of Wight. It was filmed really beautifully and it's with

1498
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 1: like a combination of the Bitches Brew and some of

1499
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 1: the other bands that Miles had around the time. It's

1500
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 1: chick Corea, Jack Johnett, Keith Jarrett, Dave Holland is on bass.

1501
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: Gary Bart is playing soprano sax an airto Morieira, who

1502
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 1: is a percussionist with Return to Forever actually his wife

1503
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:26,680
Speaker 1: saying on the return of the Forever some of the

1504
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:29,559
Speaker 1: Return to Forever stuff. Is playing a kuika at one

1505
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 1: point and it looks it's like you kind of have

1506
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: to like fist it because like the drum is, it's

1507
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:38,400
Speaker 1: hollow on its bottom, and that's where this rod gets inserted,

1508
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 1: so you have like a wet rag to or something

1509
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: to like scrape along the drumhead as you're like rhythmically

1510
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:50,519
Speaker 1: sort of penetrating this thing. It's deeply bizarre and he

1511
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 1: is heavily on acid in that performance. It's really a

1512
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,720
Speaker 1: funny thing to watch. There's different close up of him

1513
01:23:56,720 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 1: where he's clearly like watching things that are not actually there.

1514
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,719
Speaker 1: Great performance, everyone look up Miles Live at the Isle

1515
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 1: of Wight.

1516
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,839
Speaker 2: As the actors prepared for the tedious task of looping,

1517
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 2: which is re recording dialogue filmed live that was deemed

1518
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 2: unsuitable in the final print, they were all surprised to

1519
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 2: learn that the ape makeup actually hadn't stifled that much

1520
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 2: of their dialogue after all, though the few lines they

1521
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 2: did have to redom meant they had to partially reape

1522
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 2: up again in order to make sure their voice would

1523
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 2: sound consistent. Actually, Charlton Hessen and the astronauts were the

1524
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,879
Speaker 2: ones who had to do the most post production dubbing, because,

1525
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 2: as Hesson himself contends, Apes was the first movie to

1526
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:39,920
Speaker 2: use radio mics, and the quality of the new technology

1527
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,400
Speaker 2: wasn't good enough. One other dubbing story, the actor who

1528
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:47,679
Speaker 2: played Julius Buck Cartillian actually wound up having the dub

1529
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 2: his entire role over again, which sucks.

1530
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,320
Speaker 1: He the ape who's smoking a cigar? Oh oh yeah, yeah.

1531
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 2: He had the dubb his entire role over again because

1532
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:58,599
Speaker 2: the studio had over dubbed him with five or six

1533
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 2: other actors, decided none of them worked and went back

1534
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 2: to Buck.

1535
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: Why did they do that. I guess they found him

1536
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: but intelligible or like something. I mean, they wanted to

1537
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: redub his whole performance, which happens, like Mee. Gibson's whole

1538
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 1: performance in the first Mad Max is overdubbed by an

1539
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 1: American guy. I didn't know that. It's just funny to

1540
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:18,439
Speaker 1: me that they did this like four or five times,

1541
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:20,639
Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, we can't find anything better.

1542
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: Get Buck to go it and redo his entire part

1543
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,599
Speaker 1: that we surely had to race by this time. When

1544
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 1: the film was released in the spring of nineteen sixty eight,

1545
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:33,000
Speaker 1: it immediately became a hit. Pauline Kale called it quote

1546
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 1: one of the most entertaining science fiction fantasies to ever

1547
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,280
Speaker 1: come out of Hollywood in her New Yorker review.

1548
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 2: And Roger Ebert gave it three out of four stars,

1549
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:45,560
Speaker 2: calling it very understated review much better than I expected

1550
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 2: it to be. It is quickly paced, completely entertaining, and

1551
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,200
Speaker 2: the philosophical pretensions don't get in the way.

1552
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 1: That was what an early review sixty eight. If you

1553
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:56,360
Speaker 1: get along he's been when he was at that, he

1554
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 1: was at the Sun Times, then wow.

1555
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 2: Audiences agreed with Rout. The film was a box office hit,

1556
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 2: earning a lifetime domestic gross of thirty three point three

1557
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 2: million dollars, and was nominated for two Oscars Best Costume

1558
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 2: and Best Score, aside it from John Chambers Special one

1559
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 2: for Makeup.

1560
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:17,759
Speaker 1: It lost to both competitive Oscars. So that's that's sad.

1561
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:21,000
Speaker 1: But due to its release in the most turbulent year

1562
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 1: of a very turbulent era, it gained the level of

1563
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: allegory that baffled its creators, who were clued in by

1564
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: none other than Sammy Davis Junior. Sammy Davis Juniors like

1565
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty eight equivalent of what's jaw thin? Well,

1566
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I understand the bit that you're referencing,

1567
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:45,559
Speaker 1: but they didn't go to him. They read the No

1568
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:49,639
Speaker 1: I know, I know the story producers, you short, cell,

1569
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 1: sweet Sammy Davis ja jaw Rule. Have you ever seen

1570
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:58,920
Speaker 1: Sammy Davis drum or sing or dance or do anything? Yeah,

1571
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: jaw Rule looks like a US compared to him, I

1572
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: mean a Pots compared to him. Was the Putts probably period,

1573
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, it wasn't detigrading Sammy. It was just not

1574
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 1: the person I would have thought for pop cultural criticism.

1575
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:15,479
Speaker 1: You just watch how you how Sammy Davis Junior's name

1576
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 1: comes out of your bitch ass mouth. Produce keeps sucking it?

1577
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:22,160
Speaker 1: You want to keep sucking eggs through that eye hole

1578
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,120
Speaker 1: when when Frank's and I just say or else it's

1579
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:27,639
Speaker 1: it's curtains for you guys.

1580
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 2: It's a ring a ding ding for you bozos. You'd

1581
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:33,759
Speaker 2: about to knock it with that Sammy Punk.

1582
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,519
Speaker 1: Only I get to say bad things about Sammy Friend

1583
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 1: of the Pods, Sammy Davis Jr.

1584
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:44,400
Speaker 2: We bestow upon you a posthumous honor of Friend of

1585
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 2: the Pod.

1586
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 1: He wins the greatest posthumous honor anyone ever. Could we

1587
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:54,599
Speaker 1: see you, Sammy, and we wish better for you? Okay, anyway,

1588
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: getting how Sammy Davis Junior clued in the producers to

1589
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 1: the deeper meaning of Planet of the Apes. Produce, there's

1590
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: Arthur P.

1591
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,839
Speaker 2: Jacobs and mort Abrams were at a restaurant in London

1592
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:07,519
Speaker 2: where Sammy was already eating. He knew Arthur Jacobs, and

1593
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 2: he came over to the parent too enthusiastically seeing the

1594
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:13,719
Speaker 2: film's praises, ending with and it's the best statement film

1595
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 2: of the relationship between blacks and whites that I've ever

1596
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 2: seen on film. Jacob's immediate reaction, he recalled, was I

1597
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:23,360
Speaker 2: didn't know what the hell he was talking about. He

1598
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 2: assumed that we were conscious of this as an allegorical

1599
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 2: treatment of the relationship between blacks and whites.

1600
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:32,760
Speaker 1: It never occurred to any of us, really, I mean,

1601
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: I don't think they had the astronaut. I'm not sure

1602
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 1: if they had a single black person on the set. Wow. Yeah,

1603
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:45,000
Speaker 1: good work, guys. That's one of the stronger arguments for

1604
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 1: diversity in the workplace I've ever heard. Yeah, yeah, there's

1605
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:53,920
Speaker 1: a really I took out this really awful thing from

1606
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 1: Chambers where he was like the makeup guy. Yeah. At

1607
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 1: some point was mentioned that all of his makeup tests

1608
01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 1: were done on Asian people. Uh, and he was like,

1609
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:08,680
Speaker 1: I mean I just did it that way because they

1610
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 1: have such small noses and big eyes and and apparently

1611
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: he said that the head of the NAACP came to

1612
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:17,760
Speaker 1: who was an actor like, came to him at one

1613
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,640
Speaker 1: point and was like, you know, why don't you, like,

1614
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,080
Speaker 1: why aren't you hiring more black people for this film?

1615
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 1: Or or had heard that there's this big budget thing

1616
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:27,679
Speaker 1: that black people were not being hired for. And Chambers

1617
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 1: was like, I just need guys with small noses, and

1618
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:34,439
Speaker 1: then he phrases it's something. There's a quote from him

1619
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 1: in the book where he's like, and I made a

1620
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: promise to the guy. I just wanted to say, if

1621
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: there's any black out there who has a problem with this,

1622
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 1: you know, he can come right to me. And I

1623
01:29:43,240 --> 01:29:46,000
Speaker 1: don't want to offend blacks at all. It's just kept

1624
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 1: digging himself deeper.

1625
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 2: And I don't get that they used to I'll do

1626
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 2: that thing they used to measure phenology, and I'll measure it.

1627
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:58,400
Speaker 1: He's like the skull, I just used skull calipers. I

1628
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 1: took that all out. But this is really funny when

1629
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: you think of the racial implications of this movie that

1630
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:11,360
Speaker 1: the makeup artist was just so tenered about that. Thanks

1631
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:13,719
Speaker 1: to its end the succession of sequels, the film lodged

1632
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:15,600
Speaker 1: in the pop consciousness for long enough to become a

1633
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 1: permanent cultural touchstone, and in two thousand, of course, two

1634
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 1: thousand and one, the same year of Tim Burton's Misbegotten reboot,

1635
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 1: it was selected. The original was selected for preservation in

1636
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:31,200
Speaker 1: the Mother Trucking United States National Film Registry by the

1637
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:36,560
Speaker 1: Library of Congress for being quote culturally, historically, or esthetically significant.

1638
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 1: I just get so hyped on the United States National

1639
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:44,439
Speaker 1: Film Registry by the Library of Congress. Have you ever

1640
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 1: gone the Library of Congress. I feel like we should

1641
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:48,559
Speaker 1: make a field trip. No, I haven't. I'm an avid

1642
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:52,760
Speaker 1: user of its rights free photo collections and design things.

1643
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:56,080
Speaker 1: They have an incredible archive online that's just like free

1644
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:59,759
Speaker 1: to and some of the photos are so fascinating. Anyway,

1645
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:02,120
Speaker 1: our album for our band, one of our album covers

1646
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:07,640
Speaker 1: was from there, right, if not several, yeah, yeah, at

1647
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 1: least two of them. Yeah. Anyway, Obviously Hollywood and couldn't

1648
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:16,120
Speaker 1: leave this thing simply there having made all this money,

1649
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 1: and talk of a sequel quickly picked up. Eventually. They

1650
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 1: also made a TV show, Unanimated series, plus the four

1651
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: theatrical sequels, Total comic books Tim Burton's Remake, and the

1652
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:29,080
Speaker 1: reboot series that are currently running, which will be four

1653
01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:33,320
Speaker 1: strong by this summer. A lot of apes out there.

1654
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 1: The TV series, though, at least gave us Fox's merchandising

1655
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 1: an ad campaign, which is twentieth century Fox wants you

1656
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 1: to go Ape with an ape doing the classic Uncle

1657
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 1: Sam point. It's one of the best ad campaigns I've

1658
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 1: ever seen. It was a coincide with the TV show,

1659
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:51,640
Speaker 1: and they also had like sixty different companies licensed to

1660
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 1: crank out three hundred different kinds of Planet of the

1661
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 1: Apes merch which the film historian who's quoted in the

1662
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 1: documentary says like pre dates the Star Wars merchandising blitz

1663
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: and maybe even paved the way for it.

1664
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:12,960
Speaker 2: Only fourteen episodes, though, yeah, I did not do well.

1665
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:11,879
Speaker 1: So that's all insane.

1666
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:13,800
Speaker 2: But of course why would we cover any of those

1667
01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 2: because none of them are as good as the original.

1668
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 2: But the lead up for the first sequel, the Planet

1669
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,120
Speaker 2: of the Apes does have one interesting bit, which is

1670
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 2: that they went back to Rod Serling for it and

1671
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 2: also the French author of the original book.

1672
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:27,040
Speaker 1: Pierre Buell.

1673
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:31,960
Speaker 2: Producer Arthur Jacobs told Cinema Fantastique, we didn't plan any

1674
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,680
Speaker 2: sequels in the first one, but it became so successful

1675
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 2: that Fox said you must do.

1676
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:37,679
Speaker 1: A sequel if he can come up with one.

1677
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:41,080
Speaker 2: First, I went to Pierre Boull to write the screenplay,

1678
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 2: and he did write a treatment for a sequel titled

1679
01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:49,439
Speaker 2: Planet of the Men, but it wasn't cinematic Bull's treatment,

1680
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:54,679
Speaker 2: which you recall was titled Planet of the Men, featured

1681
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 2: Tailor leading and uprising against the Apes, fourteen years after

1682
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 2: the events of the first So he would have he

1683
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 2: was like, it was middle aged in the first film.

1684
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:07,840
Speaker 2: He would have been like sixty yeah, Booll told sin

1685
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 2: a fantastic They accepted the treatment that I worked on,

1686
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,639
Speaker 2: but they have made so many changes that very few

1687
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:16,639
Speaker 2: of my ideas were left. It was completely different from

1688
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 2: what they finally used on the screen. He didn't particularly

1689
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:23,719
Speaker 2: like writing a screenplay and ultimately said, in his French way,

1690
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:27,519
Speaker 2: I played the game, but my film was never made

1691
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 2: and I don't even want to publish it and it

1692
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:31,200
Speaker 2: will never be.

1693
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: Spoke a cigarette and glasses, staring at a window, rain

1694
01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 1: splattered Parisian window, shirt unbuttoned to his waist, an underage

1695
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:45,840
Speaker 1: child in bed next to him. No, sorry, I am

1696
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:48,920
Speaker 1: not in tarring all of the French's pediasques, just many

1697
01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 1: of their most important cultural figures and politicians. Rod Serling

1698
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 1: then heard from the producers, have you ever seen the

1699
01:33:57,080 --> 01:34:00,920
Speaker 1: lemon incest video? Of course, want to tell our listeners

1700
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 1: what that's all about. It depends how much is French slandering.

1701
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 1: You'd keep in the final edit of this but Serge

1702
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:10,120
Speaker 1: Gainsburg in bed with his real life then twelve year

1703
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: old daughter, Oh yeah, I forgot about the age thing too.

1704
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And they're underpants and like top shirts.

1705
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:22,639
Speaker 2: Set to the melody of Friedrich Chapone's twoed up ten

1706
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:27,799
Speaker 2: number three Incredible. As an adult, Charlotte Gainsberg routinely defended

1707
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:32,640
Speaker 2: the song. It's lyrics, written by Serge Gainsburg, describes an

1708
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:36,639
Speaker 2: incestuous relationship between him and his daughter Charlotte, the latter

1709
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:39,599
Speaker 2: of whom sings in French the love we will never

1710
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:42,640
Speaker 2: make together is the most beautiful, the most violent, of

1711
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:43,360
Speaker 2: the purest.

1712
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:46,240
Speaker 1: I should have a meme of that video and then

1713
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:50,439
Speaker 1: like send it to the French social account. That's like

1714
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:53,000
Speaker 1: from black Panther, like is.

1715
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:53,679
Speaker 3: This your King.

1716
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 2: Charlotte denied claims that the song was actually about insets,

1717
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 2: saying that although the song uses the word incest, her

1718
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:04,640
Speaker 2: father was quote just talking about the infinite love of

1719
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 2: a father for his daughter and of a daughter for

1720
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 2: her father.

1721
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:12,640
Speaker 1: Weird people, man. So back to the Planet of the

1722
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:16,640
Speaker 1: Ape sequel. Rod Serling then heard from the producers he

1723
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:19,559
Speaker 1: called an interview printed in the pages of Marvel's Planet

1724
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:23,320
Speaker 1: of the Apes comics, which I have seen. There is

1725
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:25,599
Speaker 1: a fool PDF scan of this issue out there.

1726
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 3: Well.

1727
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:29,799
Speaker 2: Serling told Planet of the Apes comics producer Arthur Jacobs

1728
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:32,439
Speaker 2: offered it to me the sequel job from London, and

1729
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:34,519
Speaker 2: I remember spending two or there dollars on a phone

1730
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,680
Speaker 2: conversation about what we do with it. The sequel, we

1731
01:35:37,800 --> 01:35:40,640
Speaker 2: literally got into the hydrogen bomb and the resurgence of

1732
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 2: civilization over the Apes, and we very much plugged the

1733
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 2: concept of the apes desperate fear of the humans because

1734
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:50,280
Speaker 2: the humans repeated what they'd done before, which essentially was

1735
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:53,000
Speaker 2: direct the Earth. As it turned out, I couldn't do

1736
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:55,160
Speaker 2: the script when Arthur wanted it done. I was on

1737
01:35:55,240 --> 01:35:58,160
Speaker 2: another assignment, so I didn't have the remotest connection with

1738
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:00,840
Speaker 2: the approach. Jacobs eventually went with what did what he

1739
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:02,080
Speaker 2: was doing? That's a shame?

1740
01:36:02,439 --> 01:36:08,400
Speaker 1: Uh, let's tick a look um? He was doing television

1741
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 1: commercials in the seventies, probably paid better. Yeah, now, he wrote.

1742
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 1: He was back on radio by nineteen seventy three, and

1743
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:22,360
Speaker 1: his final hit Dude, his final do you know this

1744
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:25,320
Speaker 1: about Rod Serling? His final radio performance was a forty

1745
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 1: eight hour long rock concert with who It reunited the

1746
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:36,080
Speaker 1: Beatles among one and it was completely imaginary, uh, but

1747
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:40,200
Speaker 1: it was like it used live records, crowd noise, interviews,

1748
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:44,120
Speaker 1: other sound effects as like a hoax. Whoa, that's cool,

1749
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:48,639
Speaker 1: and Serling hosted it and did like the radio bumpers. WHOA.

1750
01:36:49,200 --> 01:36:51,320
Speaker 2: God he was only fifty when he died in nineteen

1751
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:55,160
Speaker 2: seventy five. Cheesus w Jaane Smoker baby oh man Wow,

1752
01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:55,760
Speaker 2: three to.

1753
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 1: Four packs of cigarettes a day. Wow. So unfortunately we

1754
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:01,760
Speaker 1: never go out a Rod Serling Penn's Planet of the

1755
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: Ape sequel instead.

1756
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:06,679
Speaker 2: It was written by associate producer mart Abrams. Never good

1757
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:10,720
Speaker 2: idea when the producer writes he's the ideas man, He's

1758
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:13,479
Speaker 2: the ideas guy. And a guy by the name of

1759
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 2: Paul den Dan, you say, is a British writer who

1760
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:20,720
Speaker 2: is no slouch. He'd written Goldfinger, Okay, all right, and

1761
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:23,800
Speaker 2: two John mccarr adaptations, and his last script was an

1762
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:27,600
Speaker 2: adaptation of Agatha Christie's Murder on the Orient Express for

1763
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:31,679
Speaker 2: Sidney Lumet, which was nominated for an Oscar. It lost,

1764
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:35,720
Speaker 2: but it lost to Godfather too, so it's okay, but

1765
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:38,640
Speaker 2: damn he loved these apes. He would go on to

1766
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:41,440
Speaker 2: get a credit on every Abe sequel.

1767
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 1: The sort of world weariness like flat affect you put

1768
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:49,840
Speaker 1: into that. But damn did he love these apes? That

1769
01:37:49,880 --> 01:37:51,400
Speaker 1: was my favorite line reading I've ever done on the

1770
01:37:51,439 --> 01:37:58,519
Speaker 1: show Boogaloo until we puke. Well, Jordan, do you have

1771
01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:01,800
Speaker 1: anything to have anything to add to the to the

1772
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:06,600
Speaker 1: Apes buddy? We still don't know why that's such a

1773
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:10,759
Speaker 1: funny word. No, never, never, some linguist can. We'll VEMOI

1774
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 1: your five bucks. Some linguist wants to write in and

1775
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:19,839
Speaker 1: tell us why it's so inherently hilarious. Uh oh wow, folks,

1776
01:38:19,960 --> 01:38:21,679
Speaker 1: We've gone as far as we can at the original

1777
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:23,720
Speaker 1: plan of the Apes, and we are unwilling to go

1778
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,040
Speaker 1: further down the madness inducing sprawl of its legacy, which

1779
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:32,680
Speaker 1: means we're at something of a stale mape hold for applause.

1780
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:36,240
Speaker 1: We can only hope that this episode spurs you to

1781
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:38,559
Speaker 1: go on your own exploratory mission into the world of

1782
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 1: the Apes, where in the end you'll at least be

1783
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:45,280
Speaker 1: armed with the knowledge to tell them authoritatively to finally

1784
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:49,439
Speaker 1: get their stinking pause off. You folks. This has been

1785
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:53,960
Speaker 1: too much information, too much inform Mapes shun the real

1786
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:56,680
Speaker 1: apes were the friends we made along the way. And

1787
01:38:56,880 --> 01:39:05,519
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Heigel and I help and I'm Jordan run Talk.

1788
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:13,680
Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time. Too Much Information was a

1789
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:17,559
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. The show's executive producers are Noel Brown

1790
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:20,799
Speaker 1: and Jordan run Talk. The show's supervising producer is Michael

1791
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:24,160
Speaker 1: Alder June. The show was researched, written, and hosted by

1792
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:27,120
Speaker 1: Jordan run Talk and Alex Heigel, with original music by

1793
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 1: Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like

1794
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:32,120
Speaker 1: what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review.

1795
01:39:32,360 --> 01:39:36,720
Speaker 1: For more podcasts and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1796
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:38,639
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.