1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Up next The Truth with Lisa Mouth, part of the 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: game which for eighteen months now, the media and public 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: health officials have been pushing fear not facts about COVID, 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: and they're still doing it with no signs of stopping. 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: But today I get you the truth because this is 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: the Truth with Lisa Booth. Yeah, Yeah, welcome back to 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: the Truth with Lisa Booth. I've got a truly can't 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: miss show for you guys this week. My guest is 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: Dr Martin Coldorf, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School. 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: Dr Coldorf is also a biostattician and an epidemiologist at 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: Brigham and Woman's Hospital in Boston. Try saying that five 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: times fast. His expertise is in detecting and monitoring infectious 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: disease outbreaks, and he's an international expert in vaccine safety evaluations. 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: He's also an author of the Great Barrington Declaration. So, 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: in the words, we have the perfect person here to 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: talk about all things COVID and vaccines. So obviously one 17 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: of the reasons I wanted to have him on the 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: show is because he's brilliant, But even more importantly, he's 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: honest and he's brave. He has rejected the mindless group 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: think of his colleagues, even risking professional blowback and censorship 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: to tell the public the truth. People like him are 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: the very reason this podcast exists and why I'm so 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: passionate about it. My mission is to fight through the 24 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: lies the media tells you and to get you the truth. 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: I give you my word that this interview will put 26 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: facts over fear and science over politics. Dr I just 27 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for coming on the show. 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: You've really been a voice of reason and all the 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: madness of COVID over the past few months. You are 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: one of the co authors with the Great Barrington Declaration. 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: You've been advocating for common sense, which is something that 32 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: we've desperately been needed. So before we get started, I 33 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: just want to thank you for everything you've done over 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: the past few months. Well, thank you for having me 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: on your I appreciate that. Doctor, So the very reason 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: I have this podcast and I was pushing so hard 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: for it, was at the very beginning of COVID. There 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: were voices like Dr e Needs of Stanford warning us 39 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: in stat News in March that we were making terrible 40 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: policy decisions based off of terrible data. But nobody was listening, 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: and most of the voices that were featured were people 42 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: pushing lockdowns and things of that nature. I worry again 43 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: with a response to the delta variant, that we're going 44 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: down that same path, that same path of putting fear 45 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: over facts, of putting politics over science. Are we being 46 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: rational in our response to the delta variant? Well, I 47 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: think you're correct. And when the pandemic started, as a 48 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: public health scientists, I was absolutely stunned because basic principles 49 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: of public health from out the window, and one of 50 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: them was in the public HEALTHIMG. You don't try to 51 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: scare people. You don't use fear as the public health tool. 52 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: You use accurate facts and you explain things and um 53 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: make sure that people take the necessary actions to deal 54 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 1: with the pandemic. But you don't try to build up fear, 55 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: which they have been doing and in some places deliberately, 56 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: and that goes against one of the basic principles of 57 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 1: public health. Well, you're right, and I feel like there's 58 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: been a lack of nuance in context that has been 59 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: out there about COVID as well, and really treating people 60 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: as if their children and they can't hear the truth 61 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: when in reality, I think there'd be less skepticism to 62 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: things like the vaccines if people were just honest about 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: it all, honest about the risks, honest about the benefits. 64 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: But we really haven't gotten that. But before we would 65 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: get into vaccines, I want to start with the delta variant. 66 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: You know what, what do people need to know about 67 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: the delta variant. Well, it's not a game changer. So 68 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: when you have a virus, it always mutates, so that's 69 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: not surprising, and it's not continued to mutate. And maybe 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: the delta variates might be a little bit more transmitable, 71 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: transmitable for the transmitsive it is easier, but that's not 72 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: the game changer. Where the key thing which is true 73 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: for the delta variants as well as previous variants, is 74 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: that while anybody can get infected, there is more than 75 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: a thousands for difference in the mortality risk between the 76 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: old and the young. So for all people, COVID is 77 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: more dangerous than I annual influenza, and therefore it's very 78 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: important for all people to get fashionated. For children, uh, 79 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: COVID is less dangerous than influenza, and influenza is already 80 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: not quite dangerous for children, so COVID is even less 81 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: for children, and the same is true for young adults. 82 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: Is not a serious threat for young adults. So this 83 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: enormous gradient of more than a thousands for difference immortality risk, 84 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: that is what we should have used from the very 85 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: beginning to combat this disease by focusing our protection efforts 86 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: on the old, the high risk people, and especially those 87 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: with committities commobility like obesity, while we let young people 88 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: live the normal lives and have kids go to schools 89 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: because that's extremely important for children. And these lockdowns have 90 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: generated enormous collaptal public health damage on for example, cancers, 91 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: miss cancer screaming or treatments, worse coudiovascal disease outcomes, nor 92 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: people not getting their proper care for diabetes, um plumeting 93 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: schatterl immunization rates. And I think one of the worst 94 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: thing is the mental health issues that they have now 95 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: from these lockdowns. So it's a very tragic situation at 96 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: least lockdop has caused. And that goes against another principle 97 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: of public health, which is that you don't only focus 98 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: on one disused like COVID in publish health, you have 99 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: to look at all diseases. So um, we're saying to 100 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: do that. And I think the response to this pandemic, 101 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: these lockdowns is the biggest public health gas score in history. Well, 102 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: and we had people warning in the beginning, but again 103 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: those voices were not heard in the media, which is 104 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: why I wanted to do this podcast. So just to 105 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: be clear, the delta variant is not more deadly. It's 106 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: more infectious, but it's not more deadly. Is that accurate? 107 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: It might be more effectious, but no, and it's um uh. 108 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: Now we have the vaccino also, so old people, if 109 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: they have the vaccine, they don't need to be afraid 110 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: of this, and young people. It's not a dangerous thing 111 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: for young people. So can you just break down, you know, 112 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: who's the biggest or who's most at risk to COVID? 113 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: Can you can you just break down in terms of 114 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: groups of people who's most at risk? I know you 115 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: mentioned the elderly, but who who does COVID actually pose 116 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: a threat to? Yes, So, first as the thing is 117 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: between being infected and versus having a big hospitalized and dying, 118 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: So anybody can get infected. That's so that's universal all ages, 119 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: but for children or often ation to medical, very very 120 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: mild symptoms. So what matters is not cases here, what 121 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: matters is a little bit of hospitalization, but mostly mortality 122 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: people dying from this. And it's it's the one biggest 123 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: risk factor that's bigger than anything else is age. So 124 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: people above seventy are chig risk. People in the sixties 125 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: also have somewhat higher risk, and in their fifties is 126 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: sort of more of a low but not insignificant risk. 127 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: So age is by far the biggest risk factor. And 128 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: in addition to that, there is issues other repellective basity, 129 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: for example, which might uh might increase your risk by 130 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: the equivalent to maybe five years or so. Um. So 131 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: there are other rispects, but but far the biggest one 132 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: is age, without any doubt. So, you know, there's been 133 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: a lot of focus from the media on cases. Is 134 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: that a mistake? I mean you had just pointed out that, 135 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: you know, sort of the better barometers and the better 136 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: markers or things like hospitalizations and death. So why is 137 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: there such a focus on cases? Uh that I don't know. 138 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: I do know it's a huge mistake. We should not 139 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: focus on cases. I mean, if we're testing people who 140 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: are asymptomatic and finding okay, you're a case even though 141 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: they have no symptoms, because they make any sense. If 142 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: you have had COVID once uh, and then or if 143 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: you have had the vaccines, now you do a test, 144 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: I will still test positive because obviously the virus can 145 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: still enter your body. The immune system doesn't begain until 146 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: the virus is in your body. So you can still 147 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: be positive of the positive PC orchest after having had 148 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: a previous infection or after a vaccine. But that doesn't 149 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: thing that you're gonna gets fixed. For the key thing 150 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: is these vaccines previously sat infections. That immunity you have 151 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: from that that prevents you from getting serious little um 152 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: from dying. It doesn't prevent you from having vis in 153 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: your body. So it's sort of nonsensical to do all 154 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: these testing of asymptomatic people and county members cases people 155 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: only it's only a case truly if you have some 156 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: kind of symptoms from the disease. So the media is 157 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: calling this a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Is that accurate 158 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: or is that just the media sort of pushing fear. Uh, Well, 159 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: it's a pandemic because it is across the whole world. 160 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: So I I never heard anybody saying that a pandemic 161 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: among a certain group of people. It's a pandemic because 162 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: it have spread around the world. Uh so that's why 163 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: it's a pandemic. Now, if you if those who are 164 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: risk from this pandemic right now are the people all 165 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: the people who are not vaccinated, those are the people 166 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: who are risk of dying, and those are the ones 167 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: that they should exascinated. But children are not said risks 168 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: from this, and they should. We have ministry risks, so 169 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: they should go along with the normal lights. And we 170 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: saw that last year in two thousand twenty during the 171 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: first raving in Sweden was the only country that kept 172 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: schools of all the major western country that kept schools 173 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: open through that first wave in the spring of two 174 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: thousand twenty for all children ages one to fifteen daycare 175 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: and school. And among those one point eight million children, 176 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: the number of those who died from COVID was exactly 177 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: zero and there was only a handful of hospital stations 178 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: for children. So and did this was without children wearing masks. 179 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: Where I went to school, no mask, no testing, no 180 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: social distancing. There was more cleaning and sick people were 181 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: asked to go home. But so it's very clear that 182 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 1: this is mastered disease of children and we should never 183 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: have closed schools. And then sweden't doing that time. The 184 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: teachers had lower risks than the average of other professions 185 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: because children do not spread the diseased by efficiently, so 186 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: it shouldn't have the sick usually get from adults rather 187 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: than the other way around. So there's no reason to 188 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: keep schools closed for teachers either, um, except maybe if 189 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: you're about six peak and work from home. But other 190 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: than that, no one teachers out more risks from from 191 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: other teachers, not from the children. So well in Sweden 192 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: also didn't push mask mandates either like we did here 193 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: in the United States. But now you've got Los Angeles 194 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: County they're requiring masks again for indoor public settings. The 195 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: Biden administration is also considering stricter mask guidance. Do masks 196 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: work well in hospitals? I think so, of course situations 197 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: where it's important to wear a mask, But if you 198 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: look at it as a as a tool to deal 199 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: with the pandemic, obviously didn't work because people in the 200 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: US had were masks like eighty or about back in 201 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: the fall last year and we still had these ways 202 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: of the pandemic with many deaths. So this reliance on 203 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: thinking that the masks, somehow I'm gonna prevent the of 204 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: the pandemic. That was very disguided, and I think there's 205 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: two problems with that. One is the belief that mass 206 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: would work meant that other things that would have worked 207 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: did No, we're not implemented. And also if you tell 208 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: all the people, let, okay, a mask will protect you, well, 209 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: then maybe they go to the supermarket with crowded they 210 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: are wearing a mask, everybody else is wearing a mask, 211 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: and they think that they are protective one when they 212 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: are not. So I think a lot of older people 213 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: got exposed to the virus because they thought that masks 214 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: would protect them, when in fact they did not, obviously 215 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: because many of them got sick even though they were 216 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: wearing mask and so on. So that's an example whereas 217 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: in public health you have to be honest with the public. 218 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: You can't go and say that, well, wear a mask 219 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: and you'll be safe when that's feeling not the case. 220 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: You still let if an old person I'm not wearing 221 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: a mask and you're wearing a mask, you're still at 222 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: very higher risk of or getting the COVID which compe 223 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: lead to your death. So it's dishonest by public health 224 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: officials to push these masks and making people think that 225 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: that's the that's how people keep safe, and it doesn't 226 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: keep you safe. Well, in my opinion, it was just 227 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: for theater to give people the illusion and the appearance 228 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: that they're keeping themselves safe, even though as you just 229 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: laid out, it didn't. But I you know, we talked 230 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: about lockdowns not working, you know. I remember in New 231 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: York City they had data back and I think in 232 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: May showing that six of new hospitalizations were people who 233 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: are staying at home. How early into lockdowns were public 234 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: health officials aware that they weren't effective and they weren't working. 235 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: So already at the beginning of this pandemic, it was 236 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: clear to both both me and many of my colleagues 237 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: that lockdown's was not going to be able to prevent 238 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: this pandemic to spread around the world, UH and to 239 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: spread in the US and Europe and so on. So 240 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: what lockdowns can do is can postpone things a little bit. 241 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: So to use lockdowns to flatten the curve, it's not 242 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: unreasonable because you don't want anybody to get sick at 243 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: the same time, all going of the hospital same two 244 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: weeks period, so flooding occur. To to push it out 245 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: a little bit is the reasonable thing to do in 246 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: public health, but to put in the lockdowns for months 247 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: after month and over a year is bad public health policy. 248 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: It does not prevent any death and it actually makes 249 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: things worse because old people who needs to be protected. 250 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: The longer you drag out the pandemic, the harder it 251 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: is for the old people to protect themselves because at 252 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: some point they have to go to the dentists or 253 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: at some point that they do do things. So the 254 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: lockdowns made much more damage on public health than not 255 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: having lockdown, both in terms of the COVID as well 256 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: as of course at the collectal damage. What we should 257 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: have done is focused protection where we protect those older 258 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: people who are high risks. So with this push to 259 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: potentially even have vaccinated people wear masks, does that undermine 260 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: trust in the vaccines If if they're public health officials 261 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: are saying you still have to wear a mask after 262 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: getting vaccinated, yes, there's a very bad public health message. 263 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: So why are we saying, you know, we're seeing cases 264 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: recently with breakthrough cases with those who have been vaccinated. 265 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: Why are we seeing that? Is that something to be 266 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: concerned with from your estimation, So if there are somebody 267 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: who's vaccinated, who is the case because they test positive 268 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: on the PCR, that's irrelevant. UM, They're going to be 269 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: many of those. UM. And also people who had COVID 270 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: they will be exports for the second time worth the time, 271 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: and they might have a positive PCR test, But as 272 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: long as they don't get seriously ill, the immune system 273 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: is working. So those uh and so that's the only 274 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: thing that to worry about. If people have to be 275 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: hospitalized or if they die. Now there are going to 276 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: be people in the eighties, they have a weekend in 277 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: the system. The vaccine might not work as well for 278 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: them as for younger people because of their immune system. 279 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: Because of the vaccine is it's not doing anything in itself. 280 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: The vaccine is like the triggering your own immune system 281 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: to uh to to protect you. So there are all 282 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: the people who have a weakened immune system. How whether 283 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: the vaccine might not work and therefore they might still 284 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: be seriously ill even though they have vaccinated. That's hard 285 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: to do anything about. But if you look at people 286 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: of more normal age who have been vaccinated, the vaccine 287 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: provide kid protection for serious illness and death for the 288 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: people who are being hospitalized. Now, what ages are those individuals? 289 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: For the people currently you know being hospitalized and dying 290 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: from COVID, is it still mostly older people or or 291 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: what does that age breakdown look like from what we're 292 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: seeing in hospitals and deaths currently. And I haven't seen 293 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: the actual number for the US. I've seen it for 294 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: some of other countries like Brazil, And what happens typically 295 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: is that when when you evaccinate to older people, you 296 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: get less hospital stations among the old, and there are 297 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: the average age of those hospitalized will be lower. But 298 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that the new variants are more dangerous 299 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: for younger people than before. It just means that we 300 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: did a good job protecting the older people. We ever 301 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: eradicate UH. COVID cannot be eradicated in the history. Throughout history, 302 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: there's only two diseases that has has been eradicated. One 303 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: is small posts another one is window pest. UH diseased, 304 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: like COVID, cannot be eradicated. So what's gonna happen is 305 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: the pandemical is cann end all pandemics end. It ends 306 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 1: when we reach her immunity. All pandemics ends with her 307 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: immunity UM and will rechieve her immunity with the combination 308 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: mostly of natural infection, but also with the help of 309 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: the vaccine. And when that happens UM, most people will 310 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: have immunity to it. So when they're exposed, they will 311 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: not be seriously ill. UM. They will have maybe called 312 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: or have or maybe they will be a symptomatic. Uh. 313 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: And then when they exposed they sort of the immune 314 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: systems sort of these gets a boost and then that 315 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: helps to keep immunity for for for for many years 316 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: to come. We have children who are born, they are 317 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: born without immunity, so they are susceptible to the diseased. 318 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: So they will be exposed for the first time, maybe 319 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: sometime before it's five or so. UM. But for them, 320 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: this is not a dangerous disease. So they may be 321 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: a symptomatic when they're explored, so they might have some 322 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: mile symptoms like a common cold, so that's not a problem. Uh. 323 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: That's how the other four coronas viruses that we've had 324 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: were probably at least a hundred years are operating uh 325 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: in these endemic states. And then we have the old 326 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: trail people who are in the eighties or nineties with 327 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: the lower in where the immune system is weekend, and 328 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: some of them might die from COVID every year, just 329 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: like they have done for for hundreds of years from 330 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: a vide variety of viruses. Have we reached her immunity 331 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: in the US? In some places, probably has? In another 332 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: prob spaces, probably not yet. Uh various geographically, and that's 333 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: also true for different countries. So for example, I don't 334 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: think Canada has reached her immunity yet, but certainly uh 335 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: some places in the US I think has. Why do 336 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: you think there has been a lack of it colledgement 337 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: or lack of attention paid to natural immunity. You know, 338 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: we obviously put the emphasis on vaccines, but there's not 339 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: a lot of discussion around natural immunity and what that 340 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: means towards reaching that hurt immunity. Well, as a scientist, 341 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: that's both shocking and stunning. Back two and a half 342 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, the Greek they knew about mutural immunity. 343 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: When they had a plague, they made sure that it 344 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: was those people who already survived it to care of 345 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: the sick patients, so they knew about it, and we 346 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: knew about it for sure in two thousand nine. That's 347 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: only in two thousand twenties, it seems like we didn't 348 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: know about this anymore, which is extremely strains um NASA. 349 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: That's how our immune system work works. So that's how 350 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: we have survived for millions of years. So when you 351 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: get the insected, if you survive with most people do 352 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: from COVID, then they have immunity for or next time, 353 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: so that the next time you don't get sick, we 354 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: already get Miley mighty ill um. That's just how our 355 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: beautiful immune system works, and we should take pride and 356 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: be happy about that. So this idea that somehow if 357 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: you have had a vaccine, you're protector, but if you 358 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: have natural immunity you're not. That's strange. So vaccine past, 359 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: for for example, there should be we shouldn't have those 360 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: at all. But if we had them, there should be 361 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: immunity past but throughout the vaccination or natural immunity, and 362 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: we shouldn't. People who have already had COVID, they don't 363 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: need to get the vaccine, and that's just a waste 364 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: of time because or a waste of vaccine, because there 365 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: are many people in the world, all the people who 366 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: have not kept cotton the vaccinia, you know, dying because 367 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: of it, well in Brazil, in in Africa and India 368 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: and so one. And it's unethical to use vaccines here 369 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: in the US for people who are the heck COVID 370 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: who are immune, when instead they would do actually save 371 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: lives in other countries. So it's absolutely stunning that this 372 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: is not accepted, that you get immunity from having had COVID, 373 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: and we know we were not. I mean, the science 374 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: science is clear. There's been plenty of of the studies 375 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: by now that shows that the COVID UH infection gives 376 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: h at least as good as most likely much better 377 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: protection than the vaccine. We're gonna get you more answers 378 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: about COVID back on the other side. So before we 379 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: get to because I want, I have a bunch of 380 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: questions about vaccines, because you're the guy to talk to 381 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: your international expert in vaccine safety. But so I am 382 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: thirty six years old, I work out unhealthy, what is 383 00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: my risk from COVID sorry, low. There is to getting 384 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: COVID being affected. There's a risk there, but that's a 385 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: mild thing. So you may be six for a few 386 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: days or or or so, so, but your risk or 387 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: dying from COVID is minuscules. Much more dangerous for you too. 388 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: It's much more dangerous for you to drive back and 389 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: forth to work. Well you should. I'm a bad driver, 390 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: so I don't know if that applies to me. I'm 391 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: a very bad driver. Uh so, sir. Right now, there 392 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: are three vaccines under emergency use authorization. We've got Fiser 393 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: and Maderna and Johnson and Johnson. Can you explain the 394 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: difference between those three? All the fires Madernna are a 395 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: little bit different than change is more traditional vaccine. Uh 396 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: From from from a practical point of view, I guess 397 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: the J and J vaccine it's the one dose and 398 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: fives and Madonna two doses like scenes um in terms 399 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: of UM in terms of advers reactions, they are a 400 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: little bit different. And that's my expertise. So first of all, 401 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: all any new drive or any vaccine, we don't know 402 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: everything about the adverse reactions yet. It takes the two 403 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: years to figure that out. But for all the people, 404 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: the benefit is great, so even if there's a small 405 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: risk for an adverse reaction, it is still worse for 406 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: all people to take these vaccines. For young adults and 407 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: children is very different because there is not at all 408 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: as clear what the benefit the risk racial is. But 409 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: for for the J and J vaccine among younger people 410 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: the lost fifty, there is a risk for a lot 411 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: of clots with these vaccines, more women than in them, 412 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: and for all the people their services of the Varios 413 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: syndrome um those but those are very small risks, but 414 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: the benefits for younger people is also very small. Intens 415 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: of mortality. For for the five SADNA, I think there's 416 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: a a very small risk of myo klarditis, which is 417 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: an information of the heart, and that's also among most 418 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: more young people uh and the more men than women. 419 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: So these are the three things that we know can 420 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: be caused by these like things, we also know that 421 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: they are ray are not very common. In addition to 422 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: that they are mild but common side effects that actually 423 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: a large proportion have um like your fever or some 424 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: age and stuff like that. So those are very common 425 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: but mild harp refractions. So we don't worry too much 426 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: about those, but the serious ones are those? Those be 427 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: So we've seen I think there's six I think it's 428 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: about six thousand, two hundred seven deaths from the vaccine. 429 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: Is that normal or how does that compare to other vaccines? 430 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: I am basically I think there's sort of been like 431 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: a lack of transparency and a lot of this information 432 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 1: and a lack of trusted sources, and so I just 433 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: want to try to get as much transparency and oddesty 434 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: for the people listening. So how does that compare to 435 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: other vaccines? So this is a huge mistake that the 436 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: CDC has found. So CDC has a system called their system. 437 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: I've seen vance reporting system where a doctor or nurse 438 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: or a patient report suspected adverse event to the CDC. 439 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: But CDC is publishing these numbers as raw counts that 440 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: so many people died after the vaccine. Uh, but that's 441 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: very misleading because some of those has died, but because 442 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: they would have died no matter what, had nothing to 443 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: do with the vaccine. Um. So if you if you go, 444 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: if you eat let's say you eat an avocado, well, 445 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: some people are going to die within one week eating avocado. 446 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: Talking to do with avocado so y. The fact that 447 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: there are some people who died a week or so 448 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: after getting the vaccine is uh is expected, so whether 449 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: it's by stroke or heart attack or something else. So 450 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: the question is are there more people who die after 451 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: getting the vaccine compared to what you would expect by 452 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: chance considering the age, h health status of those people 453 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: about the vaccine. So when the CVC reports is the 454 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: rarest numbers they are report the raw counts or how 455 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: many people died after the vaccine, But they don't support, 456 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: they don't do they don't They typically don't report what 457 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: you what you would expect by chance, so they don't 458 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: put it in a proper context, and then some people 459 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: just see these raw accounts of death. I think that 460 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: they due to the vaccine, but most of them are 461 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: not due to the vaccine. But they have not been 462 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: a proper study by the CDC to figure out how 463 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: many of those how those number of deaths compared to 464 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: what you would be expected by chance if if they 465 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: were if they have people diet in a normal h 466 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: with a normal risk of not getting the laccine. So 467 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: I think CDC. Yes, the CDC has feeling messed up 468 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: by reporting these raw numbers on the their system without 469 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: putting them in proper context. What would be the better 470 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: way than to accurately capture you know, real code or 471 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: real death from the vaccine? Then is there a better 472 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: way that we should be going about it or how 473 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: do you accurately capture that to the public knows? So 474 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: the best way to do it is to get um 475 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: proper health data from the insurance claims or electant health 476 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: records or or vaccine registrates to see first who got 477 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: the vaccine and when, And then you look at both 478 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: insurance claims data and UH death records to see how 479 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: many died within a certain number of weeks after the vaccine, 480 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: as well as how many people died among those who 481 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: do not get the vaccine. And then you compare those 482 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 1: numbers and if if you if if they expected was 483 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: do you expect to see a hundred based on the 484 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: sort of the basement risk and you see a hundred 485 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: and ten tests, that's not really an issue because exactly 486 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: ask you by chance that you happen to see ten 487 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: more than you expected. On the other hand, if you 488 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: see two hundred instead of a hundred, then that's not 489 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: us a chance of them that's due to the vaccine. 490 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: So that's one way to look at these uh uh, 491 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: these data to to find out the risk of like things. Now, 492 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: it's not completely trivial. It's really easy to do among 493 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: younger people. It is difficult to do among people in 494 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: the eighties or nineties or even seventies, because they might 495 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: be some people might be very frail and maybe they 496 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: are more likely to be vaccinated, and therefore it's hard 497 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: to sort of expect to calculate what they expect the 498 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: counts are. But at least we have to try as 499 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: best as we can. And it's uh the fact that 500 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: CDC it's just putting out these raw number counts from 501 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: the WIR system. I think it's not good to do 502 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: that without pretty many context and I think that leading 503 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: to a lot of vaccine hesitancy. These people see these 504 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: large numbers without realizing what they mean. Could that same 505 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: a similar logic then be applied to the way we 506 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: count COVID desk because I know there's been concerned rays 507 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: that we're not accurately capturing COVID desk. For instance, if 508 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: you go into the hospital with the pendicitis it ruptures 509 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: or something you die from that, but then you happen 510 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: to have COVID, is it being counted as a COVID death? 511 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: So is there a similar logic applied to maybe not 512 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: counting COVID dest accurately as a country or is that 513 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: something you're concerned with? Oh yeah, I mean that's another way, 514 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: another insense where I c torop the ball. Um, that's 515 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: very unfortunate. Uh. For example, they have been You're right, 516 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: because the question is do you die from COVID or 517 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: do you die with COVID? And for example, there are 518 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: a lot of three handed um w the COVID as 519 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: in the US among children, So that's not that many. 520 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: So CDC has uh, I think about twenty employees, so 521 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: they will be easy for them to go through every 522 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: gustatisticate and medical rectors to see how many of these 523 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: were actually caused by COVID versus how many of your 524 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: children died with COVID. And I'm sure that there are 525 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: somewhat guided from it and some of that with it, 526 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: but we don't know about that numbers, and knowing that 527 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: numbers has a lot of importance for determining whether children 528 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: should be vacated or not. So it's very important to 529 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: have that information, but he distily drop the ball on it, uh, 530 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: because it's their responsibility to ensure that this kind of 531 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: information is available to make appropriate policy decision. And this 532 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: is something that Dr Martin McCarry at John Hopman University 533 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: has sort of been trustling, and he looked a very 534 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: good open about that in the Wallster Channel about a 535 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: week with two. Oh. Yes, he's great. Uh. I'm a 536 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: big fan of his as well. And you know, there 537 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: are a handful of scientists and doctors that I really 538 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: respect and all this because I feel like they've been 539 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: honest with us. You're one of them, and so is 540 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 1: Dr Marty Kara McCarry, Scott Outlas, Dr e Needs Um, 541 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: it's a it's a small list for me, and and 542 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: also Dr j Batachera Bachia as well. Um. But so 543 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you as well. So obviously you 544 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: know we've seen well, first of all, why why hasn't 545 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: the CDC done as you just explained that they could 546 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: do and getting us more accuracy on people dying from 547 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: COVID as opposed to with COVID. Why hasn't that happened 548 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: if they have the capability to do it? H. That's 549 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: a very good question. I know that there has been 550 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: uh proposals to do uh those kind of things. Um. 551 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: I think there was a lad that m H H 552 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: s that of how the Human Services they killed it 553 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: sometime in February. They were sort of on its way 554 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: to be large, but then it they stopped it. And 555 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: I don't know why they don't do this because to me, 556 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: this is one of the obvious things to do during 557 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: a pandemic to get the information you you'll find out 558 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: how many people actually died from this disease, just like 559 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: the authors who do surveys so there are prevalms, for example, 560 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: to find out how many people have the immunity. That's 561 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: also something that hasn't been done sufficiently. There has been 562 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: sung in the US, including the the early one in 563 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: sat Tectora County that johnior Medios Pasharia deal with colleagues, 564 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: which was very important. Um. But but there shouldn't be 565 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: sort of large scale surveys like that. Tumpy. The CDC, 566 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm very surprised with CDC has operated during 567 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: this pandemic, and it's not because there's a lack of 568 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: good people. As cd see, there's some excellent excellent scientists 569 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: working at CDC, so that's not to be some Uh, 570 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: there's some other reasons. Interesting And do you know why 571 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: you said HHS had killed that? Do you know why 572 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: do you happen to know? I had no idea? You know? Okay, 573 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 1: So right now the vaccines are still under emergency use authorization. 574 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: We've seen the approval process with these vaccines much faster, 575 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: much quicker than normal. Does that speediness present challenges or 576 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: raise any concerns for you? It does provide challenges, and 577 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: of course you are some concerns with it. At another hand, 578 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: I think it was the right approach because it was 579 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: very important to get these vaccines to the all the 580 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: Hirish people as soon as possible. So it was a 581 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: right decision to approve these vaccines for all the people 582 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: as soon as as possible. So I think the imaginal 583 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: use aperational was the right thing to do. Why they're 584 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: doing it for children, I have no idea. That's doesn't 585 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: sounds to me. But see, I guess where my concern 586 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: comes in is I I agree with you and totally 587 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: see the point in wanting to get the vaccine to market, 588 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: particularly for those high risk people that we've been discussing 589 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: this entire time the elderly, where potential risks of vaccine 590 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: are probably less than risks of getting COVID and dying 591 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: from it. But where I have concern is now we 592 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: have politicians and public health officials talking about trying to 593 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: mandate vaccines or colleges saying, you know, young adults teenagers 594 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: cannot go back to school or young adults cannot go 595 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: back to school unless they are vaccinated. So now we 596 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: have this push and mandate illuming for vaccinations when we 597 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: do have a vaccine that has been moved through very quickly. 598 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: So that is where my concern comes in. So I 599 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: am with you, I'm getting it to the market. I 600 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: am against and concerned about now the push for something 601 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: that hasn't been f d A proved and has been 602 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: moving through much more quickly than normal. Yeah, I think 603 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: universities to mandate vaccines is both ill advised, It goes 604 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: against public health principles, and it's unethical for for for 605 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: for a few different reasons. One is that it is 606 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: also man that it is for people who have natural immunity. 607 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense they are immune, why waste 608 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: vaccines on them? Um? Also, why should you vaccinate young 609 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: UH college students here in the US who are twenty 610 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: years old, who has miniscule risk from this virus in 611 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: terms of mortality and serious illness, while at the same time, 612 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: there are older people in Latin America, in Africa, in 613 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: Asia who do not have access to these vaccines and 614 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: who are dying because they don't have the vaccines. So 615 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: for universities to mandate that is highly un typical. UM 616 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: the price people of people who need the vaccine from 617 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: the vaccine and not to count natural natural in the 618 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: community from a national disease of COVID that goes against 619 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: the basic science. So universities should be UH institutions or 620 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: scientific enlightenment so to not to not count and not 621 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: consider that people who hacked always are intunit do not 622 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: need a vaccine. That's sort of very strength of universities 623 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 1: who do that UH, and I have no explanation why 624 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: they're doing that. It's also discriminatory to working class people 625 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: because with a lot dunce that did protect the laptop 626 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: class of professionals journalists like you, science like me, attor 627 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 1: national bankers and so on, who can work from home, 628 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 1: while the working class had to work to provide food 629 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: and electricity and coverage collection and all those things that 630 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: we all need. Or they were exposed, but they were 631 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: young and old and many they all died. But then 632 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: to say that, okay, first we exposed you to the 633 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: disease while we protected ourselves, and now we have to 634 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: also expose it to the vaccinimably already newne including those 635 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: small um have these class reactions. That's uh, that's also immoral, 636 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: I think unethical for universities to do us very clear 637 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: that they don't care about the whole population. And that's 638 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: another principle of public health. You cannot public health is 639 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:52,359 Speaker 1: about everybody in society, rich and poor. The last time, right, Well, 640 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: my challenges as well. I mean, you know, we talked 641 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: about obviously college aige students or children, you know, COVID 642 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: not being a threat to them. But you've even said 643 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: earlier me at thirty six years old healthy, if if 644 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: my chance of dying from COVID is miniscrule, why would 645 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: I get vaccinated when it's not FDA proved. And there's 646 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: also you know, been some questions raised about what it 647 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: does to a woman's menstrual cycle, Concerns that haven't been addressed. 648 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: You know right now they're studying for pregnant women, which 649 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: you know I am not. But they're also questions raised 650 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: about fertility things of that nature. So why subject yourself 651 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: to a vaccine if your risk from death is minuscule. Yes, 652 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: so you should be allowed to make that deficient yourself. 653 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: There should be no mandates. And actually when when doing 654 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: these vaccine mandates vaccine passports, that's actually increasing vaccine skepticism 655 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: in society. So alst of us to work with vaccines, 656 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: that we work vaccines for a long time with them 657 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: many decades too, to work hard to give confidence in 658 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: vaccines in society because of xcines, fine for from musels 659 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: and and so on. But there's there's a little group 660 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: of so called antiv access uh. But they haven't really 661 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: they have been not being successful in diminishing the overall 662 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: trust and confidence and vaccines. But but these people who 663 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: are not pushing vaccine passports and vaccine man they are 664 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: doing they are succeeding with the anti vaccess failed. They're 665 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: succeeding in solving a lot of distrust in vaccines, uh population. 666 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: And that's where is me uh, not just for COVID 667 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,760 Speaker 1: but for for other types of vaccines that so that 668 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: that would be very tragic. So what they're doing by 669 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: by advocating vaccine passports and vaccine man, they's all very counterprotective. 670 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,320 Speaker 1: It goes against another principle of public health is that 671 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 1: publogistically contrust um for people. For the yes, the for 672 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: public to trust public health, you have to be honest, 673 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: but also public has to tosk people to make a 674 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: sensible decisions themselves. But I also I think some of 675 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 1: the characterizations that are being made about people who have 676 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: questions about the vaccines is unfair. For instance, I even 677 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: posed on my Twitter that I was going to be 678 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: interviewing somebody I hadn't mentioned in your name yet, but 679 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: I just said I was going to be interviewing something, 680 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: what questions do you have about the vaccines? And the 681 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 1: questions I got back from people were better than the 682 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: questions I'm hearing anchors and reporters on TV asking or 683 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: I'm seeing and being asked in the media. So you 684 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: have people with real legitimate questions, you know, even as 685 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, raising the point that we have a 686 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: vaccine going through the approval process faster than we've ever 687 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: seen before it is not yet FDA approved. H there 688 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: are still concerns about potential risks to children or to 689 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: other people. We don't know what the long term impacts are, 690 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: So I think people aren't just hesitant to vaccines. I 691 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 1: actually think they're being really logical and taking a look 692 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: at their risk assessment, or someone as for my age, 693 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: saying you know, hey, look I'm not at at risk 694 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,439 Speaker 1: of dying for COVID. So I think I'm just gonna 695 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: wait and and you know, and see what pans out 696 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,439 Speaker 1: with the approval process and also potentially what the longer 697 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: term impacts are of it. So I don't think it's 698 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,239 Speaker 1: people being reckless. I think it's actually people just exercising 699 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,800 Speaker 1: common sense and looking at their own individual risk profile. 700 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 1: I agree with you a hundred percent. And I think 701 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: it's great that people asking those questions, and they should 702 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: ask those questions, and that's uh, that's very good, and 703 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 1: the the failure is not asking those questions. Those questions 704 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: should be asked, and as a scientist I ask those 705 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: questions to prospections all the time, and it's good when 706 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,240 Speaker 1: the public also do that, and especially in a situation 707 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: like this, where the problem is is the public health 708 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: officials dismissed those questions and tried to paint such people 709 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: as irresponsible or anti st science or anti vaxine, because 710 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: they are neither of those great things. So so keep 711 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: as I think people should keep asking those kind of 712 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: questions about the life. I appreciate that. And I've been 713 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: saying I'm not for the vaccine. I'm not against it. 714 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm just for a common sense because not everyone is 715 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: at risk. You know, for instance, my parents, my dad 716 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,800 Speaker 1: is very high risk. He got the vaccine. I supported 717 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: him in doing that because if he got COVID he 718 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: probably would end up in the hospital and potentially die. 719 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: So it's it's just being for a common sense and 720 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: looking at each individual and making that right decision, you know. 721 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, you know, we're in 722 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: agreement about, you know, needing to get the vaccine out 723 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: there under emergency use authorizations, so people like my dad 724 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 1: or people that are higher risk have the ability to 725 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 1: get the vaccine when the risk of COVID probably outweighs 726 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,879 Speaker 1: the risk of the vaccine. But why now is there 727 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 1: such a rush to get full FDA approval if if 728 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 1: we already have it to market, if it's already widely 729 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,360 Speaker 1: available to those who want it. Why not take the 730 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: time with the full f d A approval process. Why 731 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: does that aspect need to be rush? You know, people 732 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 1: are talking about August or or later, you know later, 733 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,959 Speaker 1: you know, in the next couple of months. Why rush 734 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,240 Speaker 1: that process? Now? I don't think it's any urgent public 735 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: health reasons to do that. I assume that the pharma 736 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: putical company is probably has no commercial reasons to do it. Maybe, 737 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,920 Speaker 1: but I don't know exactly what they're thinking it's on 738 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,480 Speaker 1: this matter. But from a public health perspective, I don't 739 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: think there's any urgency to do that. So I've got 740 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,359 Speaker 1: a lot of friends who have reached out who are pregnant, 741 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: who are basically trying to weigh you know, look is 742 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: is you know which we know that UH, vaccines for 743 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 1: pregnant women is something that is currently being studied. So 744 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: there's a lot of women that are trying to determine 745 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 1: is it more dangerous to me as a pregnant woman 746 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: to get COVID or is it more dangerous for me 747 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: to take a gamble with a vaccine? Uh? You know, 748 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: what would your recommendation be for these women that are 749 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: sort of in this difficult decision deciding what the best 750 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,399 Speaker 1: path is for them. So I don't want to give 751 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: any specistic recommendations on that, except they should avoid the 752 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: jane Ja vaccine because of the block clots. I say, uh, 753 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: but it takes longer time to find out the risk 754 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: profile and the benefit risk profile for pregnant woman because 755 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:15,880 Speaker 1: it's a smaller group. Um. So, but obviously, if you're pregnant, 756 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: you below forty five. So, um, you're not in the 757 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: highest group for COVID if you're pregnant and I am not. 758 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: Just in case my parents are listening, these are my 759 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: girlfriends reaching out to me that wanted me to to 760 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: ask this question. You know, there's also been questions raised 761 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 1: it girlfriends reach out about questions over fertility. We've seen, uh, 762 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: you know, anecdotal evidence of it messing with women's menstrual cycles, 763 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 1: and you know, questions raised about that. Are those are 764 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: there concerns there for you or how do we get 765 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: to the bottom of that? As are things that we 766 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: should study more thoroughly. But I haven't seen the definite 767 00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,080 Speaker 1: answer to those questions yet, But it's certainly something if 768 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,960 Speaker 1: we should investigate to find out about and and this 769 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: is this is sort of very natural because we'll have 770 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: the vaccines for less than a year, so it's natural 771 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: that there are many questions that we do much get 772 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:15,399 Speaker 1: no answer to about the adverstractions to the lacines, which 773 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: again is why we you know, we shouldn't see these 774 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: mandates when there are so many questions. You know, we 775 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: shouldn't be pushing people to get something when they're they're 776 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: still lingering questions out there, or they're concerned about the 777 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: long term effects of the vaccines, or what are those concerns? 778 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,840 Speaker 1: Do you have those concerns? You know, this is your business, 779 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: you're an expert in this. What would you say about that? So, 780 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:43,240 Speaker 1: if you look at other vaccines, most adversactions are occur 781 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 1: fairly soon after vacumation, within a few months. Most most 782 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,959 Speaker 1: actually beIN a top two or three weeks, but most 783 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: of within a few months. But at the same time, 784 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,800 Speaker 1: it's much harder to look to study ass reactions. UH 785 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: that happens that two or three or four or also 786 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: many years after the vaccination, so um, we know much 787 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,360 Speaker 1: less about it. But in terms of vaccines in general, UH, 788 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,960 Speaker 1: also about major concerns that they have about vaccines, most 789 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,319 Speaker 1: most about concerns about vaccines things that happened much sooner 790 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:23,280 Speaker 1: after vacination. Obviously for COVID vaccines, it has been around 791 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: for less than a year. Um, I guess, uh, almost 792 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 1: a year and if you include those who got it 793 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: becomes trials. So we don't really so I guess obviously 794 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: no data on the year. So the fires are modernity 795 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,800 Speaker 1: vaccines or M or n A. The Johnson and Johnson 796 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,920 Speaker 1: is not. Can you explain the distinction between that? And 797 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: is that important or what do people need to know 798 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: about that? So the fire symodana are more new ways 799 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:57,080 Speaker 1: of uh of the constructing vaccines, uh, the J and 800 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,120 Speaker 1: J vaccines as well as Assnicke been likes out on 801 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 1: a more traditional ways. But I'm not the best person 802 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 1: to actually give intelligent or uh to explain this in 803 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:19,239 Speaker 1: a good manner because I'm not a virologist. I'm a technologist, 804 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,360 Speaker 1: so my expertise is is more on the population based 805 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: things part of them actual mechanics of virology and the vaccines. Well, 806 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,160 Speaker 1: I respect that, I appreciate your honesty, and that's you know, 807 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: what I want for this podcast is just to have 808 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: a real you know, authentic and fact based conversation about this, 809 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,520 Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of information isn't out there, 810 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: and I had so many people reach out with questions, 811 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,839 Speaker 1: which I really think is a sad reflection of both 812 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 1: their media as well as public health officials getting you know, 813 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,960 Speaker 1: real information out there, good, the bad, all of it, 814 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 1: just so people can make informed decisions. You know, I 815 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,600 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you why is there such an emphasis 816 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: on vaccines when there are also so effective therapeutics and 817 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,600 Speaker 1: anti viral drugs on the market. So if you look 818 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: at the scientistic community getting the vaccines so quickly, it 819 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,200 Speaker 1: has been enormous success and one of the few bright 820 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: spots of this pandemic. When it counter treatments, it has 821 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:26,080 Speaker 1: been uh disaster, I would say, because when you have 822 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,640 Speaker 1: a pandemic, you quickly want to know what drugs will 823 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,960 Speaker 1: work and what drugs not do not work, and you 824 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: want to have strong scientistic evidence either way. If you 825 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: have a drug that works, you have to have strong 826 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,040 Speaker 1: evidence that it does work. If you if it doesn't work, 827 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,319 Speaker 1: you want to have strong every events that it doesn't work. 828 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: So what's the n i H National Health should have 829 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,080 Speaker 1: done it? Specifically, the National inst allergy and of special 830 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: diseases is to quickly fund the studies for different treatments 831 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:01,440 Speaker 1: using existing drugs that that could potentially for COVID, and 832 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 1: to do it both in the setting where they already 833 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:10,040 Speaker 1: hospitalized as well as in affecting where people just start 834 00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,719 Speaker 1: to in an earther states because they have started out symptoms. 835 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:19,520 Speaker 1: But those, uh, those randomized chemical files or treatments, they 836 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,040 Speaker 1: were never launched. And you can't blame the scientists because 837 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,440 Speaker 1: scientists right grants and then they are reviewed and it 838 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: takes a year before the project starts and that works 839 00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 1: fine and an almost circumstances, but in the pandemic, you 840 00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: can't wait like that. So in the pandemic is the 841 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,840 Speaker 1: responsibility of n I H and Aniida which is directed 842 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: by Anthonisacchi, to too quickly launched these to fund and 843 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:50,400 Speaker 1: launch these studies to look at the efficacy of different treatments. 844 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 1: And that was never done. And that's why we have 845 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,520 Speaker 1: had so much discussions for a year and a half 846 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,760 Speaker 1: now about does these treatment works? Does is not worth 847 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,319 Speaker 1: there's something like case but it might be some case, 848 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 1: but it might not. But there was never done the 849 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: really strong studies, so randomized um double blind that you 850 00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,239 Speaker 1: will controlled studies to look at the efficacy of these 851 00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: strikes for COVID. So UM, that's that's a huge failure 852 00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:30,480 Speaker 1: of the of the federal government, not h not launching 853 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:35,680 Speaker 1: this umguations with different potencial treatments. We're gonna take a 854 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,360 Speaker 1: quick commercial break and I'll get you more answers about 855 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:44,480 Speaker 1: COVID on the other side. So I want to get 856 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,200 Speaker 1: to sort of the lack of dissenting opinions or sort 857 00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,280 Speaker 1: of the group think in in the medical and science fields, 858 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: and and also is the media. But before I do, 859 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to make this I so appreciate your time, sir, 860 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,400 Speaker 1: because I'm trying to make this as comprehensive as possible 861 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,160 Speaker 1: so that people listening can walk away having knowledge and 862 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: information that they need to go out and make the 863 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,319 Speaker 1: right decisions for themselves and for their families. Is there 864 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,680 Speaker 1: anything that I have missed in my questions to you 865 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: about either vaccines, lockdowns, or or anything of that nature 866 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: that you think people should hear or that is important 867 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: to to get out there that might not be uh, 868 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, making its way through the media or places 869 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,360 Speaker 1: where people are getting information. Well, that is one of 870 00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,279 Speaker 1: more same because he talked so much about vaccines and 871 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: treatments and masks on. But one's very important feeling is 872 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,759 Speaker 1: that people to live their normal lives. So I have 873 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,600 Speaker 1: an eighteen year old son, and I was not worried 874 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,200 Speaker 1: abou him getting cold, because he would survive it is 875 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,600 Speaker 1: that age. But I was very worried about his mental health. 876 00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,480 Speaker 1: So I was pushing him and urging him to go 877 00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,759 Speaker 1: out and play basketball with his friends, hang off with 878 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: them and doing all those things because the school's writing normally. 879 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: But he he kids still me that total contact. So 880 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,879 Speaker 1: it's very important. I think that we encourage that both 881 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: things children and adults. Um. That we encouraged the arts 882 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,880 Speaker 1: and the costs, but that as the important parts of 883 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,680 Speaker 1: our our lives and our mental health. Uh. And as 884 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 1: we are outdoors and we exercise a lot, exercise is 885 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,640 Speaker 1: very good. We know that the obcity is one of 886 00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,200 Speaker 1: the respects for for COVID, So if there's any time 887 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,279 Speaker 1: you're gonna start exercise, this is the best time to 888 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 1: do that. Uh. And we all understand it's good. So 889 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,719 Speaker 1: to living in normal life like that is important for 890 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,640 Speaker 1: public health. And it's both the physical health and the 891 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,280 Speaker 1: mental health. I think that's something that I think important 892 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,080 Speaker 1: public health message to stress that people do those things well. 893 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,160 Speaker 1: And that's a great point. And you would reference this 894 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,040 Speaker 1: at the top of the show to sort of the 895 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,960 Speaker 1: total impact of COVID, but we didn't dig into it, uh, 896 00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,759 Speaker 1: you know, super thoroughly. But what what do you think? 897 00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:00,439 Speaker 1: I mean, we're seeing you know, opi awaid overdoses, higher 898 00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,640 Speaker 1: rates of alcoholism. You know, I believe we have a 899 00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: higher percentage of people unwell maybe ever before in history 900 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,879 Speaker 1: mentally unwell. You know what, when will we have sort 901 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,200 Speaker 1: of an accurate capture or an accurate picture of just 902 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,920 Speaker 1: the total damage that the lockdowns had on society? And 903 00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,120 Speaker 1: what do you think that will look like? They will 904 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 1: take here, maybe ten years because some of these like 905 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: opioid things for example, that could be many of also 906 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,920 Speaker 1: immediate effects. But if you look at cancer, for example, 907 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,239 Speaker 1: we had less cancers in two thousand twenty, But that's 908 00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:38,400 Speaker 1: not because there's cancers, yes, because they're not being diagnosed, 909 00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,480 Speaker 1: and if they're not diagnosed, they're not treated. And some 910 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,520 Speaker 1: of those other diagnasm are still not treated because of 911 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,759 Speaker 1: the lockdowns. But that's not sill resouting in death in 912 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,160 Speaker 1: two thousand, twenty or twenty one. So maybe somebody didn't 913 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,080 Speaker 1: get their maybe women didn't get their PEPs miss screening, 914 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,200 Speaker 1: and therefore now they're gonna die three or four years 915 00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,560 Speaker 1: from rounds. They're living in other two things of twenty years. 916 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,839 Speaker 1: So these collateral public health damage from the LOP terms 917 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 1: is something that I'm gonna have to live with and 918 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:11,440 Speaker 1: die with for many, many years to come. And the 919 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,480 Speaker 1: tally of the negative effected level damage will not be 920 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:21,200 Speaker 1: clear until at least ten years from now. But on 921 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,320 Speaker 1: some things, some things there will be sort of it's 922 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: already obvious, uh CONTI us the disease, for example, and 923 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,800 Speaker 1: mental health is already obvious that that's but that's an issue. 924 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:37,120 Speaker 1: But other things a cancer or the consequences of should 925 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,160 Speaker 1: not giving a properlication this past year, those are things 926 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,840 Speaker 1: that much more long term, and that's not a principle 927 00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,400 Speaker 1: of public health. In public health, you cannot only look 928 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,040 Speaker 1: at the short term with the diseases are right now. 929 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:50,720 Speaker 1: You have to look at the long term. What happens 930 00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,840 Speaker 1: to public health five years from our tangeous from montment 931 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,040 Speaker 1: years from now. Well, I think that's a you know, 932 00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,280 Speaker 1: great point, and you know, as we have politicians in 933 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,600 Speaker 1: public healthy shows, you know, raising the possibility of masks 934 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,080 Speaker 1: again or you know, raising the possibility of lockdowns. What 935 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,760 Speaker 1: would your recommendation be too, public health officials on the 936 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: path forward for where we are now and where we 937 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:17,840 Speaker 1: should go as a country. In addressing COVID, we should 938 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:23,920 Speaker 1: open up and we should live normal lives. If somebody 939 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,920 Speaker 1: is sick or have have some symptoms, that's just a home. 940 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: That's the very wise thing with this COVID or something else. 941 00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,160 Speaker 1: But we should try to take care of this other 942 00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:39,480 Speaker 1: because we're all going through a difficult time. So it's 943 00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:44,040 Speaker 1: not enough that councilors, some psychologists and psychiatrists help start 944 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:45,840 Speaker 1: with the mental health issues. I think we should do 945 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,280 Speaker 1: it within our families, with friends, with neighbors, with strangers, 946 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,280 Speaker 1: to all help each other to sort of recover from 947 00:58:54,520 --> 00:59:01,680 Speaker 1: um this uh uh stress and trauma that these lock 948 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:07,160 Speaker 1: towns have cost. So other than that, if all the 949 00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,760 Speaker 1: people who have not yet been vascinated should get bevacinated, 950 00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:16,960 Speaker 1: and as public health scientists officials, it's important to reach 951 00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,960 Speaker 1: all the people who are more martin, marginalized, may be 952 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,040 Speaker 1: less diffluent, to make sure they also have optunity to 953 00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,840 Speaker 1: get xans, it is always harder to reach them, and 954 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,120 Speaker 1: um until if people haven't been invictament yet, all the 955 00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,320 Speaker 1: people who haven't been investment yet, to be careful with 956 00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: crowded places and so on. But I think that's the 957 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:45,320 Speaker 1: way forward. Now. We should sort of be be be 958 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:49,240 Speaker 1: glad that the mortality is now down. There as build cases, 959 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,360 Speaker 1: but as long as mortality is down, that's what's important 960 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,840 Speaker 1: and try to get back to the all normal lessons 961 00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,760 Speaker 1: can And is there a good place for people to 962 00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,760 Speaker 1: go and get solid information on all of this outside 963 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,760 Speaker 1: of my podcast obviously? Yeah. So one place, uh to 964 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,520 Speaker 1: look at the colateral damage from the from the from 965 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:19,120 Speaker 1: from this lockdown is a website called Collateral Global where 966 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:24,320 Speaker 1: sort of collect the information about UM resource studies or 967 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,320 Speaker 1: what has been a consequence and council, what has been 968 01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: the consequences on diabetes, what has been a consequence of education, 969 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,320 Speaker 1: and so on to read both those research studies as 970 01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,200 Speaker 1: well as the newspaper articles about those things. So that's 971 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,760 Speaker 1: one place to look at for for the collateral damage 972 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,920 Speaker 1: of this lockdown, you know, and we've seen sort of 973 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 1: like censorship in this desire to shut down, you know, 974 01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,120 Speaker 1: dissenting opinions. How damaging do you think that group think 975 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,000 Speaker 1: has been in or response to all this. I think 976 01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,160 Speaker 1: that's very damaging both for the pandemic in our response 977 01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,280 Speaker 1: to the pandemic. I think by not having an open 978 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:09,000 Speaker 1: debate and discussion about the strategy to the pandemic, they 979 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:13,680 Speaker 1: have added up something that was pertably suboptimal, leading to 980 01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,000 Speaker 1: more dust that was necessary. So I think it's very 981 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,400 Speaker 1: dangerous for pandemic not to have this open discussion, but 982 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:25,200 Speaker 1: in both both among scientists but also in media. But 983 01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,040 Speaker 1: it's also how I think much more dire consequences for 984 01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:32,440 Speaker 1: science in general and in the long term. I think 985 01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,400 Speaker 1: they are good reasons now for a lot of people 986 01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,640 Speaker 1: not to trust public health and not to trust scientists 987 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,200 Speaker 1: the community. Um, that is something that's gonna take a 988 01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:47,000 Speaker 1: long time to rebuild that trust. So that's a huge 989 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,920 Speaker 1: task that we have, both as public health scientists and 990 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:57,320 Speaker 1: as general scientists to try to rebuild a trust because 991 01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:04,080 Speaker 1: I fully understand and that people will not trust have 992 01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,240 Speaker 1: a lot of trust in public house and science during 993 01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,000 Speaker 1: this pandemic, and I don't think there's good reasons to 994 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,520 Speaker 1: lose that trust and in the scientistic community. Very problematic 995 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:18,360 Speaker 1: because when I in in Martial two thousand twenty, when 996 01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,560 Speaker 1: a needed strotch his piece instead news, I tried to 997 01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,280 Speaker 1: publish things also, and other days as well were similar 998 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,800 Speaker 1: sort of questions about the lockdowns and that we needed 999 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,920 Speaker 1: to do a focused protection And it was impossible for 1000 01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,680 Speaker 1: me to publish in the US, both in the medical 1001 01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:42,840 Speaker 1: literature and in and in the more popular media regular media. 1002 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,520 Speaker 1: And there were other colleagues and minor as similar experience. 1003 01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:48,880 Speaker 1: So I'm an Adia of Sweden, so I was able 1004 01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,080 Speaker 1: to publish in the major daily newspapers in Sweden, but 1005 01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,400 Speaker 1: I was not able to publish at the time in 1006 01:02:54,480 --> 01:03:00,480 Speaker 1: the US. And it was not until October uh has 1007 01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,760 Speaker 1: to Be wrote the Great Brian Reclaration together with doctor J. 1008 01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,880 Speaker 1: Brasa Stanford and doctors not a group at Oxford who 1009 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,280 Speaker 1: it might view the pre eminent infected the technolige in 1010 01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,920 Speaker 1: the world. Well, we all guest for focused protections. But 1011 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:19,240 Speaker 1: only after that that the mainstream media could not ignore 1012 01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:24,240 Speaker 1: us and so got a foothold into into that. But 1013 01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:30,040 Speaker 1: it's very strange that this silence thing, in this answering 1014 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,160 Speaker 1: that has also occurred during this pandemic. It is right 1015 01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,800 Speaker 1: damaging and vice Cary. Actually well, and I know, you 1016 01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:37,360 Speaker 1: know you don't have to get into it, but you know, 1017 01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,120 Speaker 1: I know there's been great pushback as well, and uh, 1018 01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, for the handful of you guys who have 1019 01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,080 Speaker 1: been honest and trying to get this information out there. 1020 01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,280 Speaker 1: But I want to thank you for persevering and pushing 1021 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,120 Speaker 1: through because I can tell you, even reading that op 1022 01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,000 Speaker 1: ed from Dr Enidis back in March completely reshaped the 1023 01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:55,840 Speaker 1: way I looked at COVID because I used to work 1024 01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:57,800 Speaker 1: in polling, so you know, I understand data to a 1025 01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,680 Speaker 1: certain degree. Uh, And so what you was saying made 1026 01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,280 Speaker 1: so much sense that or the fatality rate that we 1027 01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,120 Speaker 1: were looking at was totally skewed because we weren't capturing 1028 01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:09,160 Speaker 1: all of the cases. So of course the fatality rate 1029 01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,200 Speaker 1: would be significantly higher than it actually was because all 1030 01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,400 Speaker 1: the numbers were getting skewed. So that made perfect sense 1031 01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:17,120 Speaker 1: to me. But I pushed. I tried to get his 1032 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:18,960 Speaker 1: voice out there. I wrote a notp ed with his 1033 01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:20,480 Speaker 1: name in it. I tried to get the White House 1034 01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,200 Speaker 1: on record, uh, to say that we needed a to 1035 01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:25,720 Speaker 1: get a good representative sample and to get better data. 1036 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,040 Speaker 1: But you know, I I so I just I commend you. 1037 01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,840 Speaker 1: I commend the handful of other individuals who really fought 1038 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:34,440 Speaker 1: to get the truth out there, because I know that 1039 01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,200 Speaker 1: it was a professional risk and you guys took some 1040 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, bullets coming in your direction. But I mean, 1041 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,800 Speaker 1: you guys are heroes in my opinion. I'm not even 1042 01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,880 Speaker 1: you know, kidding with that. I I deeply respect what 1043 01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,040 Speaker 1: you have done in getting the truth out there and 1044 01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,600 Speaker 1: just being honest with the public. We have had a 1045 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:53,800 Speaker 1: choice because if we're gonna be a scientist, I have 1046 01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,640 Speaker 1: to be honest about the science. That's not a question. 1047 01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,360 Speaker 1: So I want to commend you, my others in your uh, 1048 01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:07,560 Speaker 1: in your situation, journalists and also people just regular regular 1049 01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,280 Speaker 1: people who have been pushing this because you and they 1050 01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,360 Speaker 1: they had a choice. Actually I didn't really have a choice. 1051 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,919 Speaker 1: I had to speak up because I'm I've been working 1052 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,560 Speaker 1: with anti to see offers for a couple of decades. 1053 01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,120 Speaker 1: But you had a choice, and you did the right choice, 1054 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,200 Speaker 1: and I really appreciate that what you did, uh, what 1055 01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,080 Speaker 1: many people in the public have done to speaking up 1056 01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,200 Speaker 1: and writing brcast things and using social media, talking to 1057 01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,960 Speaker 1: neighb business so but that's been extremely important. So I 1058 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:37,840 Speaker 1: wanted to thank all of you. Thank you, sir. And 1059 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,080 Speaker 1: my objective for this podcast was just to be as 1060 01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,160 Speaker 1: comprehensive as possible so people could go get real truth 1061 01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:45,200 Speaker 1: from someone who is an expert at all of this, 1062 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,640 Speaker 1: who has been honest, and I think we accomplished that goal. 1063 01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:50,200 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for being so generous with 1064 01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,520 Speaker 1: your time. This was an honor and I learned so 1065 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,840 Speaker 1: much and I so appreciate your voice in your time. 1066 01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, well, thank you, and thank you for 1067 01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:12,000 Speaker 1: asking such important thank the question. Appreciate that. I want 1068 01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,280 Speaker 1: to thank Dr Martin Coldorf again for such an important interview, 1069 01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:17,680 Speaker 1: and I want to thank you guys at home for listening. 1070 01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,760 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed today's show, please leave us a review 1071 01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,720 Speaker 1: and rate us five stars and Apple podcast. You can 1072 01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,520 Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram and at 1073 01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:28,919 Speaker 1: least and rebooth. And I want to thank our team 1074 01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:34,160 Speaker 1: producer John Cassio, writer Aaron Kleigman, researcher Isabelle McMahon, and 1075 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,920 Speaker 1: executive producers Debbie Myers and speaker New Gingrich, all part 1076 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,919 Speaker 1: of the Gangridge three sixty network and team