WEBVTT - Defining Anarchism feat. Andrew 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:07.160 All the media. Hello, and welcome to it could happen here, 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:12.520 because it could. My name is Andrew Sage and I'm 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.960 also Andrewism on YouTube and at time of recording, the 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.239 year is still technically new, so I wanted to start 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.840 it off with some refreshers on anarchism. In the first episode, 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.400 we'll look at the meanings of anarchism, authority, and anarchy, 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.720 and the next time we'll look at free association, mutuality, 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.160 mutual aid, and throllo solidarity. And don't worry, next month 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.080 I'll be getting back into the Latin American Anarchism series, 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.040 as I still haven't done Uruguay and Mexico yet. Oh. 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.400 By the way, I'm not talking to myself. I'm here 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.040 with the one and only be along. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.159 Oh, I keep, I keep forgetting that you do an 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.479 actual throws actually saying the name. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.080 Yeah, not to worry. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.120 I've only been doing this for several hundred episodes. Now 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.080 you'd think you'd think, but no, now you got it. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:00:59.680 You got it. 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.400 Hell, I'm excited to do this. 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.520 Also excited for the Mexico episodes, because Mexican anarchism is 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.520 a trip Irguaan anarchism is also a whole lot of 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.480 people digging tunnels out of prisons. 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.040 But we'll get we'll get We'll get to that later. 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.080 We will, we will. So I'm supposed to start off 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.800 with I want to find out And I asked this 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.040 question with tongue in cheek, of course, how familiar but 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.080 you say you are with anarchism. 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:30.000 You know, I have a very silly like kind of 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.160 like how did I like actually finally become an anarchist 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.960 because I've been around anarchists for a long time, But 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.200 like the thing that like actually convinced me to be 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.520 an anarchist is I sat down and I got a 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.000 bunch of like anarchist history books while library I started 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.720 reading them, so like. 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.520 Marx Nott Lao and I'm sorts of people. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.760 So specifically was a lot of like krups like how 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.600 to Shooseo and Puranicism intoward Japan, which I've talked about 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:02.240 on the show one hundred billion times. So I actually 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.080 I think I've read Capaletes Anarchism Latin America around that 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:05.600 time too. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:06.760 It's a very good resource. 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:12.520 Yeah, yeah, so pretty pretty familiar with stuff. 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:14.560 But yeah, we'll see, we'll see. I'm excited to talk 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:15.000 about it. 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.720 Yeah, I mean, we'll see, is right, because let's say 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.040 ippened an anarchists. But I was first introduced to anarchism, 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:26.399 I would say somewhere around twenty seventeen twenty eighteen through 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:31.600 Christian anarchism. Actually that was during my deconstruction. I stumbled 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.280 upon Christian anarchism and briefly flated with it, but didn't 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.919 really get seriously into the studying of anarchists m until 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.840 like Lee twenty nineteen, Rearly twenty twenty around the time 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.200 and leads in towards twenties when I started my channel. 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.720 Let's say I've been studying anarchism for about five years. Seriously, 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.760 I feel like I'm now getting started, you know, like 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.520 I'm now sett into that grasp what it is. And 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.120 I think is there's so many interpretations of anarchism, you know, 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.680 so many different schools of thought. I mean, that's not 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.480 to say that it can't be find or that any 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:06.120 attempts to define anarchism is like exclusionary or on anarchist. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.760 And I see that out of that argument floating around 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.480 it like, well, no, you can't define anarchism because that's 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.360 actually authoritaria. But you know, there are such a thing 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.080 as as definitions, but there is room, of course for 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:18.720 a negotiation of meaning. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.240 Yeah, it's it's a very it's a very well usually 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.639 it's a very syncratic ideology. It pulls from a lot 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:26.840 of different places, and it pulls mosts a different of 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.280 its own strands. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.200 Yeah, yeah, exactly. But let's say if you had to 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.480 like define anarchism like right now, like, what would you 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:41.600 say is a not un negotiable basic fundamental definition for you? 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.800 I mean, the opposition to hierarchy on a basic level, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.360 the opposition to the state, to capitalism, to patriarchy, to 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:54.680 systems of hierarchical power is I guess, like the the 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.760 baseline definition. And then also in terms of what it's, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.720 you know, the replacement for that can be a lot 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.880 of things. But yeah, it's it's the building of a 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.440 society where we don't have power over one another. I 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.200 think it's like a very baseline kind of thing. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.600 Yeah, I think that's that's pretty solid for me. I 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.040 find it fairly similarly, I would say that I think 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.640 the opposition to authority is the most simplant part, you know, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.839 I would say the definition I've been sort of workshopping 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.599 sculpting over time and as a right. So I really 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.320 like to play with words a bit and find the 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.119 best ways to put things. So for me, what I've 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.320 come up with is that anarchism is the political philosophy 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:41.720 and practice that opposes all authority along with its justifying dogmas, 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:47.039 and proposes the unending pursuit of anarchy, a world without rule, 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:52.480 where self determination, mutuality, and free association form the basis 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.960 of our society. And so basically the rest of this 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.760 episode is going to be me breaking down how I 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.880 came to this definition, what I'm expounded upon with this definition, 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.920 So for one, just taking a look at the structure 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.640 of it, we are looking at an oppositional stance and 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.200 a propositional stance, opposing and proposing. You know, we're not 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.440 just for the negation of all things, although there are 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.359 schools of anarchisms that do lead in that direction. But also, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.360 of course, we want to be constructive. We're not as 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.599 some people seem to presume, you know, obliterating the states 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.320 and then leaving warlords in their weak you know. 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.599 Yeah, Baconin sucks in a lot of ways, but the 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.039 creative verge is a destructive one has the order of 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:44.000 events correctly, where like the point is to create something. 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.680 Exactly exactly, And as you know, Bikinnan is one of 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:53.640 the rely a thinkers of anarchism, though I've never really 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.920 been partial to him, you know, yeah, to me usually 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.520 I've been more of a Krapotkin and Mali Testa a guy. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.080 But lately, as as you know, so problematic as he 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.200 is as well, I haven't getten into a bit more. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.920 I recently got the pictures of put On Reader that 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.159 Ian McKay put together for a k Press. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:21.400 Extremely problematic guy, oh boy, Yeah, but he. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.280 Certainly wrote a lot. And so when I think through 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.920 and seecret what jim stones of his of his work 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.320 I can find, you know, yeah, I think that's that's 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:32.520 important to sift through. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.480 He's a He's a mixed and baffling figure who also 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.960 was a pretty large influence on Marx if you like 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:42.440 read him, even though Marx hates him, which is very funny. 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:47.440 Marx also didn't always understand step Honestly, I don't think 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.400 necessarily always had like a very consistent application of his ideas, 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:57.039 hence the misogyny. Despite being an anarchiss and becoming a 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.640 politician at one point in his life and all that jazz. 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.800 Yeah, and people may know this who listen to this show, 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.839 but the term libertarian was invented by anarchists specifically to 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.240 describe how they were different from ver Dawn because they 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:15.520 weren't sexist, Like, it's the whole. 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:16.840 Thing actually, wasn't away of that. 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.480 That's yeahs interesting, Yeah, that's why, and that's why in 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.160 most parts of the world libertarian is like is a 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.720 term that means anarchist. It's just it's mostly largely in 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.000 the US where that's not a thing because the right 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.240 libertarians like took it. 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:36.480 Yeah. Well, unfortunately, the US's cultural hegemony has sort of 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:42.600 propagated that American version of the term as the popular one. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:47.280 But yeah, yeah, whether you're talking about anarchists or libertarians 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.960 or mutualists, you're all getting it from basically that same 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:55.560 sort of original phool of the late nineteenth century early 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.920 frankieinth century thinker and I were sort of using their 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.720 sort of explorations to build something up a political philosophy. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.640 But in my definition I call it a political philosophy, 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.360 but that can be a contentious way of describing it. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.560 You know, anti politics is a tilm that's used to 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:18.280 describe opposition to or distrust in traditional politics. Social politics 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.040 is usually associated with the art and science of government. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.880 So there are anarchists who would argue that anarchism is 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.600 not a political philosophy, it's actually an anti political philosophy. 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:30.960 I think these people are very okay. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.200 This is one of the things about being an anarchist, right, 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:34.559 this is the thing thing about being a leftist, and 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:36.120 it's something you have to be able to set aside 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.120 when you have to do things. But a lot of 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.680 veg A leftists is being annoyed at other leftists. And 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.120 I could put together an actual, detailed theoretical critique of 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.400 anti politics, but mostly the people who talk about anti 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:47.360 politics just annoy me. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.360 It's like an affect thing. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.880 I feel you to me, It's like it's a I 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.000 like to pick up, look around at, you know, play 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.200 with fur little bit, put it back down kind of thing. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.719 You know, I'd like limited to it, but I think 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.640 it's like it's good to look at more than one 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.240 ankle of definition and an understanding. Yeah, I mean, of course, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.320 I suppose a critique that could be made of define 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.040 anarchism as anti politics is a sort of a narrowing 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.839 of the definition of politics suggest that sort of art 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.800 and science of government when politics can also be defined 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.880 really broadly as just about the relationships between people and groups, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:32.240 which anarchism is concerned with primarily. So, but I do 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.840 find it an interesting point to wrestle with, and so 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.880 other than it being a political philosophy or anti political philosophy, 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.079 we could also define an anarchism as a practice. This 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.319 is something that I believe Greeber did in his life. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.200 He saw anarchism. In one interview he said, code it's 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.280 possible to act like an anarchist, to behave in ways 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.360 that will work without bureaucratic structures of coatient to enforce them, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.199 without calling yourself an anarchist or anything. In fact, to 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.880 us act like anarchists, even communists a lot of the time. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.400 To be an anarchist for me is to that self 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.200 consciously as a way of gradually bringing a world entirely 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.760 based on those principles into being and good. So this 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:13.880 is basically the idea that anarchism is not just something 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.839 you think in ahead. It's a method of change or 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.240 something that you practice. It's something that the facts anarchists 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.160 don't even want to call themselves anarchists because they see 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.920 anarchist about something that you do rather than something that 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:25.319 you are. 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.560 Yeah, that was a graverline. 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:33.200 I think Cala Gwynn kind of had a similar relationship 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:34.640 towards calling yourself an anarchist. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.640 Yeah, that's that's possible. That that sounds really, really familiar. 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:40.120 Yeah, I think I think a line was like, she 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:44.040 didn't feel like she could because you had to do it. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.160 But yeah, it's a it's a pretty common way of 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.000 thinking about anarchism that I like a lot. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:54.359 Yeah, for sure. Another part of the definition of anarchism 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.640 that I put forward is the opposition to all authority, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.319 and that a statement could actually get me some pushback, 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:06.080 getting in some trouble with some anarchists. Surprisingly, and I'm 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:11.360 sorry I blame Nome Chomsky, Oh my god, as a historian, 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.160 as a linguist, okay, whatever. Sure, but it was not 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.560 historically controversial among anarchists to say that you were opposed 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.400 to all hierarchy and all authority. 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:21.040 Yeah. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.839 You know, the definitions of those terms do get confused 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.240 often because, like a lot of words in the English language, 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.679 they do have multiple meanings. You know, you don't want 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.840 to fall into the equivocation fallacy, where you use a 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:34.679 word or phrase in one way and then you use 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.920 it in another way in the same argument. So someone 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.120 might say, for example, anarchism opposing authority is stupid because 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.120 authority just means having a difference in expertise or a 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.679 difference in influence, or that hierarchy opposition to hierarchy is 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.439 stupid because you know food chains or you know the 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.080 hierarchy of needs. But as you know, anarchists will focused 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.040 on very specific things or we use these terms, so 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:00.440 arguing against it with other definitions doesn't make sense. And 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.200 by hierarchy is anarchists are French as stratification of society, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.079 which gives some individuals, groups, or institutions authority of others. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.840 An authority refuses to recognized right above others in a 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.559 social relationship, to give commands, enforced obedia to control, property, 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.920 to exploit, and so on. And I really don't see 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:26.000 the benefit in Chomsky's sort of unjust authorities or unjust 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.000 hierarchy is approach to define him anarchism. 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.720 Yeah, because I mean the thing about hierarchies is that 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:37.080 every hierarchy argues it's just like you would get slave owners, 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.520 like doing these whole speeches about like the inherent morality 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.480 of slavery, like it's not actually a it's not actually 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.440 like an ethical position that leads you to like the 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.560 opposition to hierarchy, because again, every every hierarchy is self justice, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.120 is self justifying. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.760 Exactly, which is why I say oppositions all authorities and 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.720 they're justifying dogmas because all of them have dogmuds, including 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.920 the example that Chomsky uses, which is typically of the 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.600 parent pulling their child away from traffic. That is not 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.960 an exercise of authority. And the relationship between a parents 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.920 and a child is something that kind of should be interrogated, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.560 you know, that is a KaiA taking relationship primarily a 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.840 relationship of responsibility. It does not have to be a 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:24.280 relationship of authority, and the sense and I suppose yeah, 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:25.360 and the way. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.920 That it turns into a relationship of ownership is something 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.640 that genuinely can and should be opposed. But it's also 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.920 something that like gets a lot harder to oppose when 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.839 you're sort of stuck up on this like, well, actually, no, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.080 it's good because this is authority or whatever. So I 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.880 think the way that Chomsky obfuscates the stuff makes it 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.439 harder to actually do politics. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.080 That's useful exactly because then it also makes it its 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.240 hard of people to set a question. The authority the 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.720 more comfortable with, or the hierarchy is the more comfortable with. 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.000 So you'll see that way. So gold On you can say, 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.720 although we don't actually oppose all hierarchities, you know, your 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.960 parents thing, and you really you see in ground in 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.079 a sense, because you make it harder to identify and 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.960 really question those things, because you're you're shutting down that 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.679 avenue of questioned it, you know. And so when we 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.080 speak of authority, we're really speaking about that right, the 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.920 right the authority that gives to certain people over other people, 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.240 you know, privileges that are recognized and enforced, and a 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.640 right being a sort of a priority that is above others. 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.120 You know, the right of authority is a guarantee to 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.880 actions or resources that absolve the individual holding that right 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.400 of consequences. The right of authority compels and supporting the 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.320 desires and needs of those below that authority. So you know, 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.600 authorities have the right to command recognized and enforced by 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.040 the underlings. You know, they're the right to enforce the 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.320 obedience of the underlings are the right to control all 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.200 the properties the earth has been carved into. You know. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.880 The right absorbs them of certain consequences and sort of 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.720 goes in one direction. It's a unilateral sort of thing. 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:07.400 So the authority can take your house, you know, the bank, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.920 the government, the landlord. They can take your house, but 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.280 you can't take theirs. You know. An authority can assault you, 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.600 whether be a soldier, police officer, whatever, you cannot assault them. 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.480 An authority can take the fruits of your labor. They 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.120 could take from these wealth of what you produce, but 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.560 you can't take from them. That's theft, right. An authority 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.600 cannot be an authority by themselves. They have to have 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.320 authority over They have to have a hierarchical social relationship 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.960 that deprives some their benefit. An Anarchists oppose authority because, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.400 you know, among other reasons, those subjects of authority become controlled, 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.920 They become dependent, exploited, prevented from accessing their full potential 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.400 and even their bare necessities. A really that prevented from 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.960 accessing their full potential is why a lot of anarchists 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.480 have spent a lot of time targeting or approached to 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.920 pearance in an approach to entry heat. You know, just 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:02.800 this morning I was reading a bit of Emma Goldmun 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.640 as she was talking about Phaer's schools. The way that 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.080 she speaks also she was an excellent rights and excellent speaker, 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:10.920 but the way that she did so, and the way 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:15.800 she approached and recognize this need to tap into our potential, 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.320 particularly from young to prevent it from being limited by 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:23.080 the impositions of authority. It's just extremely profound. It's necessary, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.360 acessary to start at particularly at that age, but really 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.880 at any age, to break away from that condition that 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:34.600 that recognizes and enforces and obeys and accepts authority and 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.840 the right of authority. You know, if everybody, if everybody, 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.520 including their underlings, decided tomorrow not to recognize and enforce 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.560 the authority of presidents, of kings, of capitalists, that freight 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.800 would be gone in an instant. Also, when he starts 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:54.080 with us being able to actually question, to challenge, to 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:59.720 resist authority, and that's something that has existed since humans 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.440 have been in humans throughout history, we see this sort 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:06.720 of compulsion to resist authority, and that sort of seed 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.960 of resistance is what anarchists hope to have thresh. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:12.840 Fortunately, we have to go to ads. 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:18.360 Disaster fiasco, your principles in shambles. 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:27.120 But here here's ads. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.440 We are back. So, like I said before, authority gets 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.840 confused with a lot of different things. Force and violence 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.880 is the main one. It's one that Marxists in particular love, 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.160 that sort of conflation of authority with any use of force. 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.920 You know, the slave resistant a slave owner is actually 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:49.800 an example of authority. 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:55.159 Incredibly silly people who are otherwise reasonably intelligent will just 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.080 say this stuff. It's like, really, what are we doing here? 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.800 Just come on? Yeah, yeah, I mean force and violence 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.440 associated with authority, and there they can be a mechanism 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.919 of defending an authority. But they're not in and of 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.600 themselves authority. They're not the source of authority. They don't 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.520 cost you authority, and you could just as easily use 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.600 them to resist authority. Yeah. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.360 I want to go back to the slavery thing specifically 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.600 about authority, because the argument that it's an imposition of 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.159 authority for slaves to free themselves is an argument that 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.800 was specifically made by the Southern plantation class. Like that 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.800 was that was their argument about federal tyranny, was that 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.800 specific argument. So it's probably not a good theoretical basis 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.159 for understanding what authority is. If if if you're if 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.840 you're making the same argument as the Southern plantation class, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:44.720 it's gonna just just cause it's gonna leave the. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.119 One out there exactly exactly. And really we have to 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.960 understand violence. Forces are things that are used by authorities. 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.320 But if I punch somebody in the face, that doesn't 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.320 make me an authority over them. You know, if I 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.000 defend myself from me in a punch, that doesn't mean 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.159 me in authority of the person trying to punish me. 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.920 The source of authority is really about that that right, 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.800 that position, that recognized right above others, that position, that 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.800 social relationship above others. That's what grants authority. It's recognition. 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.880 The general of an army is not an authority because 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.720 he's holding a gun to the heads of all the 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.560 other soldiers and making them do things. The generals here 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.920 is to be a recognizing authority because of his position 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.320 and the privileges and rights and powers that that position 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.360 gives him. If tomorrow all the soldiers decided to till 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.920 in on their general, as has happened historically, that is 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.560 one hundred percent possible. That is an instance of four 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.360 sort of violence being used to resist authority rather than 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.520 being used to, you know, be authority. Another thing that 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:56.679 gets confused with authority is influence or or respect. So 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.320 influence is really something I mean, I might find somebody's 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:03.320 a ees or qualities or achievements admirable, right, so I 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.800 respect that about them. That does mean they have an 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.480 authority over me. I might be inspired by someone in 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.320 a way that affects my character or development, will behavior. 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:16.000 But again that isn't that influence doesn't automatically trust into authority. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.600 You'll find that a lot of the anarchists think because 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.120 of the late nineteenth twentieth century, they were very influential. 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.240 They were not authorities, but they had a profound impact 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.080 on the people around them, and they were profound inspiration 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:30.399 to us even to today. 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.760 Yeah, there's there's a paper I always think about where 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.960 I found it, like a kind of liberal, well like 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:39.359 a maybe center lefty academic writing about Mela Tessa, who 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.160 we've we've talked about a lot on this show. There's 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.520 an Italian anarchists did a whole bunch of stuff. So 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.960 when the Italian revolutions are happening in nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen, 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.959 like Baltesa comes back to Italy because he'd been all 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:53.639 over the world doing a whole bunch of other stuff, 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.600 and he gets called like like Italy's Lenin. 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.480 For those who listened to some of my Anarchists History episodes, 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.040 you know that he kind of shows up sometimes. You 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.960 know that he shows up an easier literally everywhere. He 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.160 shows up all over the place. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.119 Yeah, all for Latin America is in the US, and 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.280 you know, and so he gets called like the Leadin 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:15.439 of Italy. And this paper was about like was he 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.960 act Did he actually act like Lenin? And the conclusion 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.600 that they came to was like, well, no, he didn't 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.360 try to. He didn't come back to Italy to type, 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.720 to seize control of the country like he simply did 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.439 not because he was an anarchist, because that's what it 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.920 means to sort of, you know, have influence, but not. 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:33.159 Like rule exactly exactly. And that really gets into some 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:37.159 of the interesting conversation around anarchism and leadership and the 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.560 different ways ad can sort of interpret the concept of leadership. 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.720 But I'll see that for another discussion. There are two 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.320 other things that authority gets confused with that. I want 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.760 to address the first is coordination. And what's interesting with 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.240 coordination is that it's very much tied to authority a lot. 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.240 In the present day. You know, a lot of the 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.600 rules we have in the current system, coordination authority get 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.600 tied up together. So you have a manager of an enterprise, 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.320 and that manager coordinates all of the workers in that enterprise, 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:10.639 but the manager also has authority over those workers, you know, 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:14.160 to fire, to discipline, to go all these sorts of things. 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:18.160 Or a general in an army might have a coordination 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:22.440