1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,518 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:13,478 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey We're back. It's Tom Berducci and Joe 3 00:00:13,518 --> 00:00:17,278 Speaker 1: Madden with another episode of the Book of Joe podcast. 4 00:00:17,398 --> 00:00:21,438 Speaker 1: Of course, it is based on the actual Book of Joe. 5 00:00:21,958 --> 00:00:26,198 Speaker 1: It's out now and available wherever you buy your books. 6 00:00:26,278 --> 00:00:29,198 Speaker 1: Whether you want the print version or the audio version, 7 00:00:29,518 --> 00:00:32,718 Speaker 1: you will absolutely love it. Joe. How you doing. I'm good, Tommy. 8 00:00:32,798 --> 00:00:36,438 Speaker 1: I'm here in Chicago. We represented yesterday at the Union League, 9 00:00:37,398 --> 00:00:40,598 Speaker 1: really nice luncheon. David Hall helped out with the interview 10 00:00:40,758 --> 00:00:42,958 Speaker 1: on stage, kind of like the fireside chat thing, and 11 00:00:42,998 --> 00:00:45,158 Speaker 1: we sold over two hundred there and the people were great. 12 00:00:45,718 --> 00:00:47,518 Speaker 1: And then last night I went with the Downers Grove 13 00:00:47,598 --> 00:00:51,118 Speaker 1: which was truly incredible. It's a suburb, beautiful area and 14 00:00:51,198 --> 00:00:53,958 Speaker 1: over seven d there that that really blew me away. 15 00:00:53,958 --> 00:00:57,918 Speaker 1: People were standing in line outside. It was cold, so 16 00:00:57,958 --> 00:01:00,718 Speaker 1: it's a very very humbling moment for all of that, 17 00:01:00,838 --> 00:01:03,918 Speaker 1: but it was a great experience. So it's always great 18 00:01:03,918 --> 00:01:05,718 Speaker 1: to get back through the Chicago a little cold today, 19 00:01:05,838 --> 00:01:09,358 Speaker 1: but I've enjoyed my state. Yeah, it's it's so interesting, Joe, 20 00:01:09,398 --> 00:01:11,278 Speaker 1: when you're out and about and you get reactions from 21 00:01:11,318 --> 00:01:13,438 Speaker 1: people about the book, and of course we had an 22 00:01:13,478 --> 00:01:17,318 Speaker 1: event at book Ends in Ridgewood, New Jersey recently, and 23 00:01:17,478 --> 00:01:19,838 Speaker 1: it really warns my heart that people are coming to 24 00:01:19,918 --> 00:01:23,158 Speaker 1: this book who are not necessarily baseball fans, or maybe 25 00:01:23,158 --> 00:01:26,678 Speaker 1: not hardcore baseball fans. I think everybody's pulling something different 26 00:01:26,718 --> 00:01:30,438 Speaker 1: out of it, whether it's life lessons, whether it's leadership lessons. 27 00:01:30,438 --> 00:01:31,998 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of feedback from people in the 28 00:01:31,998 --> 00:01:34,598 Speaker 1: business world about, you know, how to manage people and 29 00:01:34,598 --> 00:01:37,398 Speaker 1: how to connect with people. So I think it's really 30 00:01:37,438 --> 00:01:39,798 Speaker 1: cool that, Yeah, a baseball fan is going to love it, 31 00:01:39,838 --> 00:01:41,398 Speaker 1: there's no doubt about it. But the audience for this 32 00:01:41,438 --> 00:01:43,838 Speaker 1: book seems to be really broad, very cool. Yeah, that 33 00:01:43,838 --> 00:01:47,398 Speaker 1: happened again yesterday, the whole day both places. Um, it's 34 00:01:47,398 --> 00:01:50,078 Speaker 1: just incredible. I mean, I'm looking out the window right 35 00:01:50,118 --> 00:01:51,998 Speaker 1: now being here, it was here for five years and 36 00:01:52,998 --> 00:01:55,598 Speaker 1: just very quickly reminded what I loved the place so much. 37 00:01:55,638 --> 00:01:56,998 Speaker 1: And a lot of it has to do with the people. 38 00:01:57,518 --> 00:01:59,558 Speaker 1: I mean, these folks were buntled up state in Line, 39 00:01:59,598 --> 00:02:02,318 Speaker 1: came through very brief encounter, but god, they were so 40 00:02:02,518 --> 00:02:06,278 Speaker 1: up appreciated. Even in the exchange was very warm and sincere. 41 00:02:06,398 --> 00:02:11,038 Speaker 1: So sometimes you know we we we forget rather too quickly, 42 00:02:11,238 --> 00:02:14,438 Speaker 1: and that was great to be reminded by the fans 43 00:02:14,518 --> 00:02:16,598 Speaker 1: of the Cubs and the people of Chicago. Was just 44 00:02:16,638 --> 00:02:19,078 Speaker 1: a wonderful experience from me on a personal level. Well, 45 00:02:19,118 --> 00:02:21,758 Speaker 1: a lot to get into in the course of this 46 00:02:21,838 --> 00:02:24,318 Speaker 1: episode of the Book of Joe podcast, we're gonna talk 47 00:02:24,358 --> 00:02:27,918 Speaker 1: about glue guys for you d I wires out there 48 00:02:27,958 --> 00:02:30,478 Speaker 1: will explain what that is. And we'll also talk about 49 00:02:30,718 --> 00:02:33,878 Speaker 1: older managers, which I think Joe will be happy to 50 00:02:33,998 --> 00:02:36,438 Speaker 1: chime in on. And we need to talk about Show 51 00:02:36,478 --> 00:02:39,598 Speaker 1: Hey Otani. There's some great insight from you, Joe into 52 00:02:39,638 --> 00:02:42,478 Speaker 1: Show Hey Otani in your time managing him. And of 53 00:02:42,478 --> 00:02:45,638 Speaker 1: course he is up for the American League m VP Award, 54 00:02:45,958 --> 00:02:50,158 Speaker 1: which will be handed out later tonight Thursday night, most 55 00:02:50,238 --> 00:02:52,758 Speaker 1: likely going to Aaron Judge. But we need to talk 56 00:02:52,838 --> 00:02:55,518 Speaker 1: more about Show Hey Otani because I hope people out 57 00:02:55,558 --> 00:02:59,118 Speaker 1: there do not take for granted what this young man 58 00:02:59,278 --> 00:03:02,198 Speaker 1: is doing and his talent level and his dedication to 59 00:03:02,278 --> 00:03:06,078 Speaker 1: this game. We will never see anything like this again, unless, 60 00:03:06,118 --> 00:03:09,278 Speaker 1: of course it's Show Hey does it again. So Joe, 61 00:03:09,318 --> 00:03:11,118 Speaker 1: you know him well, you were the one who really 62 00:03:11,118 --> 00:03:13,238 Speaker 1: took the reins off him and as you said, never 63 00:03:13,278 --> 00:03:15,358 Speaker 1: stand in the way of greatness. He took off some 64 00:03:15,398 --> 00:03:17,438 Speaker 1: of the governors that were on him where the angels 65 00:03:17,438 --> 00:03:20,398 Speaker 1: were trying to protect him physically. He has certainly responded 66 00:03:20,438 --> 00:03:22,878 Speaker 1: to that by just being a pure baseball player. Give 67 00:03:22,918 --> 00:03:26,998 Speaker 1: me an insight on what motivates show hey Otani to 68 00:03:27,158 --> 00:03:29,998 Speaker 1: be elite at this level. Yeah, he Um, he came 69 00:03:30,078 --> 00:03:32,318 Speaker 1: here for a purpose. He came here to be a 70 00:03:32,318 --> 00:03:34,598 Speaker 1: to a baseball player. He came here to be the 71 00:03:34,638 --> 00:03:38,318 Speaker 1: best player in the game. Um, he's just motivated, motivated 72 00:03:38,318 --> 00:03:40,318 Speaker 1: to be the best at what he does, and that's 73 00:03:40,358 --> 00:03:43,438 Speaker 1: both pitching and hitting pretty simply as a baseball player. 74 00:03:43,478 --> 00:03:45,598 Speaker 1: There's there's nothing else really, I don't think in his 75 00:03:45,638 --> 00:03:48,958 Speaker 1: life that distracts him from that. Him and he paid 76 00:03:48,998 --> 00:03:51,758 Speaker 1: live really close to the ballpark there in Anaheim, and 77 00:03:52,038 --> 00:03:53,958 Speaker 1: he's there all the time. I mean, whether it's to 78 00:03:54,038 --> 00:03:57,478 Speaker 1: be rehab the bit or just get ready for a game, whatever, 79 00:03:57,718 --> 00:04:00,118 Speaker 1: or just extra work, whatever it may be. It's just 80 00:04:00,158 --> 00:04:03,198 Speaker 1: the motivations on another level. This guy truly does want 81 00:04:03,198 --> 00:04:05,958 Speaker 1: to be great, and he is great already. But that's it. 82 00:04:06,078 --> 00:04:08,718 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very uncomplicated. Is that do simple better 83 00:04:09,158 --> 00:04:12,318 Speaker 1: method or moment. He um came here for a reason, man, 84 00:04:12,398 --> 00:04:14,398 Speaker 1: And in the beginning, of course, I was not given 85 00:04:14,438 --> 00:04:17,958 Speaker 1: that opportunities. As we did take the reins off as 86 00:04:17,998 --> 00:04:20,918 Speaker 1: you suggested, it just became he went from like a 87 00:04:20,998 --> 00:04:23,238 Speaker 1: little bit. I don't once they introverted, but he wasn't. 88 00:04:23,238 --> 00:04:26,198 Speaker 1: You could sense he wasn't as happy as to when 89 00:04:26,238 --> 00:04:29,158 Speaker 1: he was given the opportunity to really attempt to fulfill 90 00:04:29,198 --> 00:04:31,318 Speaker 1: his destiny and play both sides at the baseball and 91 00:04:31,358 --> 00:04:34,998 Speaker 1: play often and not as many days off, etcetera. Uh, 92 00:04:35,238 --> 00:04:37,278 Speaker 1: and we're all worried about guys getting hurt, and you 93 00:04:37,358 --> 00:04:40,158 Speaker 1: know what happens. Guys get hurt, bodies get hurt. So 94 00:04:40,638 --> 00:04:42,518 Speaker 1: it just was all of that just he needed to 95 00:04:42,558 --> 00:04:45,678 Speaker 1: be permitted in a sense to just let go go 96 00:04:45,758 --> 00:04:48,758 Speaker 1: do your thing. And he's responded beautifully. Yeah, of all, 97 00:04:48,918 --> 00:04:52,598 Speaker 1: I don't listen. There's an amazing amount of stats and 98 00:04:52,678 --> 00:04:55,038 Speaker 1: ways to look at the greatness of Shoheio Tani. This 99 00:04:55,078 --> 00:04:58,878 Speaker 1: is just one for me from the season. He threw 100 00:04:58,998 --> 00:05:02,998 Speaker 1: more pitches one miles an hour or more than any 101 00:05:03,198 --> 00:05:07,478 Speaker 1: other amount American League starting pitcher, and he hit more 102 00:05:07,558 --> 00:05:11,598 Speaker 1: baseballs one hundred miles an hour or greater than any 103 00:05:11,638 --> 00:05:16,758 Speaker 1: designated hitter in baseball. It's just crazy now for all 104 00:05:16,798 --> 00:05:19,398 Speaker 1: these people out there who are saying, well, show hey, 105 00:05:19,438 --> 00:05:22,118 Speaker 1: he should just specialize. Imagine how good he'd be as 106 00:05:22,158 --> 00:05:24,998 Speaker 1: a starter. Imagine how he'd be good just as a hitter. 107 00:05:25,438 --> 00:05:28,718 Speaker 1: No stop. The man came to this country, to major 108 00:05:28,758 --> 00:05:31,518 Speaker 1: League Baseball to do both, and as you I think 109 00:05:31,558 --> 00:05:35,478 Speaker 1: just highlighted there, Joe, he loves being a two way player. 110 00:05:35,758 --> 00:05:38,358 Speaker 1: Do not take that away from him. Would you ask 111 00:05:38,398 --> 00:05:41,278 Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen to stop writing songs and just play music, 112 00:05:41,638 --> 00:05:43,838 Speaker 1: or just play music and don't write the songs. No, 113 00:05:44,798 --> 00:05:47,358 Speaker 1: this is a guy who's following his heart, so listen. 114 00:05:47,398 --> 00:05:49,398 Speaker 1: I don't know, Joe, if you are concerned at all 115 00:05:49,438 --> 00:05:52,838 Speaker 1: about physically show hey, holding up, But I know what's 116 00:05:52,838 --> 00:05:54,998 Speaker 1: in his heart. It seems like this is what he 117 00:05:55,038 --> 00:05:57,078 Speaker 1: wants to do, and this brings out the best of him, 118 00:05:57,118 --> 00:06:00,558 Speaker 1: not specializing. Yeah, that's that's the point right there. I 119 00:06:00,598 --> 00:06:03,398 Speaker 1: think he does better or will do better by being 120 00:06:03,398 --> 00:06:06,358 Speaker 1: permitted to do both. I think if you pigeonholed him 121 00:06:06,358 --> 00:06:08,278 Speaker 1: into one over the other, you're not going to see 122 00:06:08,278 --> 00:06:12,238 Speaker 1: the same performance. I think he needs the the diversion, 123 00:06:12,998 --> 00:06:15,398 Speaker 1: whether it's gonna pitch one day or hit for four 124 00:06:15,478 --> 00:06:18,278 Speaker 1: days or five days. He needs to be able to 125 00:06:18,318 --> 00:06:20,438 Speaker 1: park his mind in other areas to really try to 126 00:06:20,718 --> 00:06:22,438 Speaker 1: get the best out of what he does on that 127 00:06:22,478 --> 00:06:25,278 Speaker 1: particular day, whether it's an offensive player or that's the 128 00:06:25,358 --> 00:06:27,878 Speaker 1: day that he has to pitch. Um, it would really 129 00:06:27,918 --> 00:06:30,238 Speaker 1: injure him to not be able to I mean mentally 130 00:06:30,358 --> 00:06:33,038 Speaker 1: injure him, uh, to not be permitted to do both. 131 00:06:33,078 --> 00:06:35,598 Speaker 1: So it's one of those cases, man, it's it's it's 132 00:06:35,598 --> 00:06:38,438 Speaker 1: like this conventional wisdom component where you think, if we 133 00:06:38,478 --> 00:06:40,438 Speaker 1: took this away from him, he's gonna get better at this. 134 00:06:40,758 --> 00:06:42,558 Speaker 1: It's always one of those be careful what you wish 135 00:06:42,598 --> 00:06:46,838 Speaker 1: for moments. My my opinion is strongly and I thought 136 00:06:46,838 --> 00:06:49,518 Speaker 1: that's from the beginning when I first got there, I thought, 137 00:06:49,518 --> 00:06:51,518 Speaker 1: if we permitted him to do both, you're gonna see 138 00:06:51,518 --> 00:06:53,998 Speaker 1: better at both, because in the beginning he wasn't. And 139 00:06:54,038 --> 00:06:56,398 Speaker 1: like I said, it just reflecting his personalities. Joy for 140 00:06:56,438 --> 00:06:58,678 Speaker 1: the day. I can't wait to get there. I am 141 00:06:58,758 --> 00:07:00,718 Speaker 1: the best player in baseball based on the fact that 142 00:07:00,718 --> 00:07:03,118 Speaker 1: I'm doing two things, which is what I always wanted 143 00:07:03,158 --> 00:07:06,878 Speaker 1: to do. So, Um, if you listen, we just can't. 144 00:07:06,918 --> 00:07:09,478 Speaker 1: You just can't constantly worry about people getting hurt. And 145 00:07:09,518 --> 00:07:12,518 Speaker 1: that's a part of the daily conversation when it comes 146 00:07:12,558 --> 00:07:15,798 Speaker 1: to a lot of young players. And um, I've always 147 00:07:15,798 --> 00:07:17,718 Speaker 1: had a hard time with that. There are athletes you 148 00:07:17,718 --> 00:07:19,878 Speaker 1: can get hard driving her card to the ballpark. They 149 00:07:19,918 --> 00:07:22,558 Speaker 1: could get hurt just walking down the steps. Let him alone, 150 00:07:22,638 --> 00:07:24,438 Speaker 1: let him go play, and I think you're going to 151 00:07:24,478 --> 00:07:27,478 Speaker 1: see a better product. Well said, Now, can I put 152 00:07:27,478 --> 00:07:31,038 Speaker 1: you on the spot, joh, what's ahead for show Hey Otani? 153 00:07:31,118 --> 00:07:33,278 Speaker 1: Because I know the Angels have come out and said 154 00:07:33,438 --> 00:07:35,878 Speaker 1: they're not trading him this winter. Well, we know that 155 00:07:35,918 --> 00:07:37,958 Speaker 1: because the team is up for sale. You're not gonna 156 00:07:38,038 --> 00:07:40,638 Speaker 1: trade Otani, who was one of the great assets of 157 00:07:40,638 --> 00:07:43,238 Speaker 1: the organization when the team is on the market. Doesn't 158 00:07:43,238 --> 00:07:47,318 Speaker 1: make any sense. So that pushes the possible trade window 159 00:07:47,438 --> 00:07:50,078 Speaker 1: to next July because he would be a free agent 160 00:07:50,118 --> 00:07:52,958 Speaker 1: at the end of next season. So the Angels are 161 00:07:52,998 --> 00:07:55,798 Speaker 1: on the clock here. They essentially have the first three 162 00:07:55,838 --> 00:07:59,718 Speaker 1: months of next season to play competitive enough baseball to 163 00:07:59,798 --> 00:08:04,438 Speaker 1: convince show Hey Otani. Besides whatever the contract umber is 164 00:08:04,998 --> 00:08:07,118 Speaker 1: to remain with the Angels and listen, it's gonna be 165 00:08:07,158 --> 00:08:10,558 Speaker 1: difficult for anybody to sign shoe A Otani because there 166 00:08:10,598 --> 00:08:14,278 Speaker 1: are no comps to him, right, you just cannot compare him. 167 00:08:14,278 --> 00:08:17,318 Speaker 1: I mean basically, when I look at his numbers from two, 168 00:08:17,558 --> 00:08:20,598 Speaker 1: he's actually a compilation of last year's n l CY 169 00:08:20,678 --> 00:08:23,878 Speaker 1: Young Winner n m v P. You know, Corbin Burns 170 00:08:23,918 --> 00:08:26,918 Speaker 1: and Bryce Harper is So I mean, where the money goes, 171 00:08:26,998 --> 00:08:30,358 Speaker 1: we'll see. But tell me about Otani and what you 172 00:08:30,478 --> 00:08:34,718 Speaker 1: think he wants beyond next season. Because we knew he 173 00:08:34,758 --> 00:08:36,798 Speaker 1: came here and he immediately ruled out some of the 174 00:08:36,798 --> 00:08:39,198 Speaker 1: bigger market teams. He ruled out the East Coast. It 175 00:08:39,238 --> 00:08:41,078 Speaker 1: was important to him to do both as we talked 176 00:08:41,118 --> 00:08:44,038 Speaker 1: about in terms of pitching and hitting the show. Hey Otani, 177 00:08:44,078 --> 00:08:46,598 Speaker 1: who we have not seen play a postseason game yet, 178 00:08:46,798 --> 00:08:49,078 Speaker 1: burned to go to a winning team. Will he go 179 00:08:49,238 --> 00:08:51,318 Speaker 1: to a big market team? Give me a sense of 180 00:08:51,358 --> 00:08:55,118 Speaker 1: what you think is ahead for show, Hey Otani? Well, 181 00:08:55,278 --> 00:08:57,558 Speaker 1: I think first of all, the idea of him being 182 00:08:57,558 --> 00:08:59,118 Speaker 1: there for a couple of three months whatever at the 183 00:08:59,118 --> 00:09:01,278 Speaker 1: beginning of next year is wise. In regards to the 184 00:09:01,318 --> 00:09:04,318 Speaker 1: Angels on the Angel side, I mean they just got Anderson. 185 00:09:04,358 --> 00:09:06,158 Speaker 1: The picture that you look at their staff and I 186 00:09:06,198 --> 00:09:08,918 Speaker 1: like these guys a lot um and Perry does dig 187 00:09:08,958 --> 00:09:12,278 Speaker 1: lift handed pitching, and they have plenty of them, so, um, 188 00:09:12,318 --> 00:09:14,878 Speaker 1: that's interesting. And who knows what they may do at 189 00:09:14,878 --> 00:09:18,278 Speaker 1: short stop and when he Foth can repeat what he 190 00:09:18,318 --> 00:09:21,118 Speaker 1: did last year, and of course David Fletcher, who I loved. 191 00:09:21,878 --> 00:09:23,558 Speaker 1: So I think that's why it's to hold on to 192 00:09:23,678 --> 00:09:26,838 Speaker 1: that and see where it goes. Um. And also while 193 00:09:26,838 --> 00:09:30,798 Speaker 1: you're doing that, possibly build up the value of the franchise. 194 00:09:30,838 --> 00:09:32,678 Speaker 1: I don't know to what extent, but and again I 195 00:09:32,678 --> 00:09:35,678 Speaker 1: don't even know what Arty's intentions are this winter, so 196 00:09:35,838 --> 00:09:37,558 Speaker 1: that that would be number one. I think that's why 197 00:09:37,558 --> 00:09:40,638 Speaker 1: it is to hold on and see what occurs after that. 198 00:09:40,718 --> 00:09:43,558 Speaker 1: If if in fact it doesn't roll, well, I think, Um, 199 00:09:43,838 --> 00:09:45,758 Speaker 1: I know show he wants to win, he wants to 200 00:09:45,758 --> 00:09:49,318 Speaker 1: play winning baseball. Um, what else is there from on 201 00:09:49,358 --> 00:09:53,918 Speaker 1: an individual level, um, to accomplish. He's gonna receive his 202 00:09:53,958 --> 00:09:56,798 Speaker 1: money's gonna achieve level four, and but he's always been 203 00:09:56,798 --> 00:09:58,478 Speaker 1: in level five. All he wants to do is when 204 00:09:58,478 --> 00:10:02,038 Speaker 1: the difference is I think, excuse me is when he 205 00:10:02,078 --> 00:10:05,598 Speaker 1: first came over, the simity on the West coast to 206 00:10:06,358 --> 00:10:08,318 Speaker 1: Japan was very important to him. I think now that 207 00:10:08,358 --> 00:10:11,558 Speaker 1: he's understands the culture here better and he's been to 208 00:10:11,598 --> 00:10:13,638 Speaker 1: the different cities and he's got to know more people. 209 00:10:14,078 --> 00:10:16,678 Speaker 1: I think that opens up the whole uh continent to him. 210 00:10:16,678 --> 00:10:19,878 Speaker 1: I do um, and probably even into Canada. I'm not sure, 211 00:10:19,918 --> 00:10:22,758 Speaker 1: but UM. Anyway, the whole league now I think is open. 212 00:10:22,758 --> 00:10:24,798 Speaker 1: We're in the beginning. I don't think it was. The 213 00:10:24,798 --> 00:10:26,878 Speaker 1: whole league is now open now because the h is 214 00:10:27,078 --> 00:10:31,078 Speaker 1: um available in both leagues where it wasn't before. Uh. 215 00:10:31,118 --> 00:10:32,518 Speaker 1: Those are the kind of things that I think that 216 00:10:32,638 --> 00:10:36,278 Speaker 1: there was some restrictive components that are now no longer factors. 217 00:10:36,358 --> 00:10:39,238 Speaker 1: I don't think so he'll want to go to a winner. 218 00:10:39,558 --> 00:10:41,678 Speaker 1: He'll want to go to a place that he's very smart. 219 00:10:42,198 --> 00:10:44,198 Speaker 1: He want to go to place that probably you know, 220 00:10:44,238 --> 00:10:49,438 Speaker 1: he could highlight the showcases skills, but the most important 221 00:10:49,518 --> 00:10:53,238 Speaker 1: overarching component would be he wants the ability or be 222 00:10:53,318 --> 00:10:55,638 Speaker 1: with the group that he knows can win and went 223 00:10:55,678 --> 00:10:58,398 Speaker 1: on a consistent basis. It's gonna be fascinating to the 224 00:10:58,758 --> 00:11:01,238 Speaker 1: plays out. I was told that the Angels expected the 225 00:11:01,318 --> 00:11:05,558 Speaker 1: sale process once are Marino said the team would be 226 00:11:05,638 --> 00:11:09,278 Speaker 1: sold probably anywhere between six to nine months, which probably 227 00:11:09,318 --> 00:11:11,918 Speaker 1: brings us close to that trade deadline. Next year, a 228 00:11:11,958 --> 00:11:14,558 Speaker 1: new owner comes in. Maybe it's a Steve Cohen type 229 00:11:14,558 --> 00:11:16,758 Speaker 1: who has a ton of money and wants to invest 230 00:11:16,878 --> 00:11:19,598 Speaker 1: more in Otani and keep him. Or maybe it's a 231 00:11:19,678 --> 00:11:22,998 Speaker 1: situation like Juan Soto, or an organization just sees an 232 00:11:22,998 --> 00:11:28,038 Speaker 1: immediate ability to rebuild the franchise with multiple players. It'll 233 00:11:28,158 --> 00:11:31,318 Speaker 1: be fascinating to see. Uh. It's important for the Angels 234 00:11:31,358 --> 00:11:33,838 Speaker 1: obviously to get off to a good start either way 235 00:11:33,998 --> 00:11:36,478 Speaker 1: next season. But I agree with you on Tyler Anderson. 236 00:11:36,598 --> 00:11:38,878 Speaker 1: That was a great signing. We love the changes he 237 00:11:38,958 --> 00:11:41,398 Speaker 1: made with the Dodgers, so we'll see where that goes. Hey, 238 00:11:41,438 --> 00:11:43,198 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break when we come back. 239 00:11:43,238 --> 00:11:46,078 Speaker 1: I told you we're gonna talk about older managers. What's 240 00:11:46,118 --> 00:11:48,158 Speaker 1: going on in the game. Joe Madden is gonna tell 241 00:11:48,238 --> 00:11:58,638 Speaker 1: us when we get back. Welcome back to the Book 242 00:11:58,638 --> 00:12:01,878 Speaker 1: of Joe podcast. Did you see the Manager of the 243 00:12:01,998 --> 00:12:05,958 Speaker 1: Year awards handed out this week? Buckshew Walter and Terry 244 00:12:06,038 --> 00:12:09,958 Speaker 1: frank ConA. Maybe not a surprise, but he've got show 245 00:12:09,958 --> 00:12:13,358 Speaker 1: Walter at sixty six years old, frank ConA at sixty three, 246 00:12:13,398 --> 00:12:15,718 Speaker 1: coming off a World Series in which we had Dusty 247 00:12:15,758 --> 00:12:19,038 Speaker 1: Baker at seventy three years old, Rob Thompson at fifty 248 00:12:19,118 --> 00:12:21,638 Speaker 1: nine years old, and you had Bob Melvin playing for 249 00:12:21,678 --> 00:12:24,078 Speaker 1: the National League Pennant at sixty one years old. You 250 00:12:24,118 --> 00:12:27,118 Speaker 1: had Brian Snicker last year winning the World Series at 251 00:12:27,158 --> 00:12:30,038 Speaker 1: sixty seven years old, and now the Rangers have hired 252 00:12:30,078 --> 00:12:34,878 Speaker 1: Bruce Bocci at sixty seven years old. Joe is the 253 00:12:34,918 --> 00:12:41,158 Speaker 1: pendulum swinging back to begin to value experience again. I 254 00:12:41,238 --> 00:12:44,638 Speaker 1: like that word over older managers and more experienced managers. 255 00:12:44,718 --> 00:12:48,398 Speaker 1: Let's go there. Yeah, I don't know. Yes, this year, 256 00:12:48,518 --> 00:12:50,398 Speaker 1: this coming year is gonna have a lot to say 257 00:12:50,398 --> 00:12:53,558 Speaker 1: with that, I believe, Um, these guys are really good 258 00:12:53,558 --> 00:12:56,438 Speaker 1: at their craft. Every guy you mentioned there has put 259 00:12:56,478 --> 00:12:59,278 Speaker 1: in a lot of time developing and honing his skills. 260 00:12:59,758 --> 00:13:01,358 Speaker 1: A lot of these guys really go back to the 261 00:13:01,398 --> 00:13:03,798 Speaker 1: minor leagues as minor league grunts, which I really had 262 00:13:03,958 --> 00:13:06,998 Speaker 1: entify with. And believe I can tell you this much. 263 00:13:06,998 --> 00:13:09,798 Speaker 1: When I'm managing a game and the guy and the 264 00:13:09,838 --> 00:13:12,238 Speaker 1: other dugout has had a lot of minor league experience, 265 00:13:12,278 --> 00:13:14,838 Speaker 1: it's obvious, Um, you just got to keep up with 266 00:13:14,878 --> 00:13:17,718 Speaker 1: more stuff. This goes back even to when I first started. 267 00:13:17,758 --> 00:13:20,878 Speaker 1: There's Jimmy Leland and the other dugout and it's like 268 00:13:20,878 --> 00:13:23,478 Speaker 1: when you go to that game, you're you're more concerned 269 00:13:23,518 --> 00:13:25,998 Speaker 1: about what Jimmy Leland's thinking as opposed to just really 270 00:13:26,038 --> 00:13:28,598 Speaker 1: bearing down on the game. I mean there's something there's uh, 271 00:13:28,878 --> 00:13:31,238 Speaker 1: I don't know what's intimidation, but there's a high respect 272 00:13:31,278 --> 00:13:34,198 Speaker 1: factor going with all of that UM. So I'm a 273 00:13:34,238 --> 00:13:36,798 Speaker 1: big proponent of that, and again it's gonna come down 274 00:13:36,798 --> 00:13:40,158 Speaker 1: to what organizations seek. I'm really happy for their success 275 00:13:40,198 --> 00:13:43,558 Speaker 1: Tito and Buck. Congratulate both of them. They're good friends. 276 00:13:44,278 --> 00:13:47,238 Speaker 1: I think it's wonderful. And even Brandon Hyde being involved 277 00:13:47,238 --> 00:13:49,078 Speaker 1: in that hiders a little bit younger than that, but 278 00:13:49,118 --> 00:13:52,038 Speaker 1: I was so pleased that he got mentioned as much 279 00:13:52,078 --> 00:13:54,798 Speaker 1: as he had. So again, it's just gonna come down 280 00:13:54,798 --> 00:13:58,678 Speaker 1: to again this year, I think the way the season 281 00:13:58,958 --> 00:14:05,118 Speaker 1: um plays out, and and how much uh responsibilities given 282 00:14:05,158 --> 00:14:07,718 Speaker 1: to the managers, and then how much it's recognized that 283 00:14:07,798 --> 00:14:10,718 Speaker 1: maybe the o their way. It's not just about how 284 00:14:10,798 --> 00:14:13,718 Speaker 1: you use your bullpen. It's about everything else that you 285 00:14:13,798 --> 00:14:19,238 Speaker 1: do in the clubhouts conversationally, uh, you know, philosophically, I mean, 286 00:14:19,278 --> 00:14:21,318 Speaker 1: how you run a camp and and what do you, 287 00:14:21,318 --> 00:14:23,438 Speaker 1: what do you perceive to be important? And how how 288 00:14:23,478 --> 00:14:27,158 Speaker 1: well does your team carry out those fundamentals during the season, 289 00:14:27,198 --> 00:14:29,598 Speaker 1: and really, how do you value that those fundamentals and 290 00:14:30,358 --> 00:14:32,158 Speaker 1: how important do you think they are to your success? 291 00:14:32,238 --> 00:14:34,478 Speaker 1: I mean, these these are the questions that groups have 292 00:14:34,598 --> 00:14:37,118 Speaker 1: to answer. And I'm telling you, I don't buck really well, 293 00:14:38,278 --> 00:14:41,318 Speaker 1: and I uh and I know too, I mean, and 294 00:14:41,318 --> 00:14:43,038 Speaker 1: and of course I don't boat. I mean, these guys 295 00:14:43,078 --> 00:14:45,238 Speaker 1: are going to demand all that stuff, So what do 296 00:14:45,278 --> 00:14:47,638 Speaker 1: you want? Do you want that or you want the 297 00:14:47,718 --> 00:14:51,518 Speaker 1: less experience, where then you may rely on other components 298 00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:53,398 Speaker 1: or factors that you think will just take care of 299 00:14:53,398 --> 00:14:56,718 Speaker 1: itself and not really recognize the importance of that steady 300 00:14:56,758 --> 00:14:59,998 Speaker 1: hand in the clubhouse. Yeah, you know, Joe. My experience 301 00:15:00,278 --> 00:15:03,918 Speaker 1: these last few years has been that the more experience 302 00:15:03,918 --> 00:15:07,758 Speaker 1: its manager can really impact the postseason. Uh in the 303 00:15:07,798 --> 00:15:10,798 Speaker 1: smaller sample size when he, let's face it, the heat 304 00:15:10,798 --> 00:15:13,438 Speaker 1: of the moment gets even hotter. And I've seen some 305 00:15:13,478 --> 00:15:17,638 Speaker 1: of the younger managers rely more on the script, so 306 00:15:17,718 --> 00:15:20,478 Speaker 1: to speak, and and based on analytics, which is really 307 00:15:20,518 --> 00:15:23,518 Speaker 1: the safe way to go, especially if you have a 308 00:15:23,598 --> 00:15:26,078 Speaker 1: very influential front office in terms of how a game 309 00:15:26,198 --> 00:15:28,558 Speaker 1: is run. So it just as an example here. I 310 00:15:28,598 --> 00:15:30,558 Speaker 1: love what Rob Thompson did. I know a lot of 311 00:15:30,558 --> 00:15:32,878 Speaker 1: people were talking about his lineup and why is Bryce 312 00:15:32,918 --> 00:15:35,238 Speaker 1: Harper hitting fourth? He should be up there in the 313 00:15:35,318 --> 00:15:37,558 Speaker 1: first inning, making sure he gets up there, you know, 314 00:15:37,558 --> 00:15:40,078 Speaker 1: at the first time around against the picture. But you know, 315 00:15:40,198 --> 00:15:42,678 Speaker 1: Rob Thompson said it's working. He went to the players, 316 00:15:42,758 --> 00:15:45,278 Speaker 1: they were happy with the way it was chasing. These 317 00:15:45,358 --> 00:15:49,438 Speaker 1: little incremental edges don't always work in the small sample 318 00:15:49,438 --> 00:15:51,878 Speaker 1: of the postseason. And I think about Aaron Bone, who 319 00:15:51,958 --> 00:15:55,078 Speaker 1: was very much run by analytics. The Ekes lineup seemed 320 00:15:55,118 --> 00:15:57,438 Speaker 1: to change every day. I mean, Judges hitting second, then 321 00:15:57,478 --> 00:15:59,958 Speaker 1: he's hitting first, kind of a leftist shortstop, then he's 322 00:15:59,998 --> 00:16:02,758 Speaker 1: not the shortstop. Clay Holmes can't pitch the third day 323 00:16:02,758 --> 00:16:05,878 Speaker 1: in a row, and there was some miscommunication there. So 324 00:16:06,318 --> 00:16:09,398 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes that can create more problem than experienced 325 00:16:09,438 --> 00:16:11,758 Speaker 1: manager is just going to go by what he sees. 326 00:16:11,838 --> 00:16:13,838 Speaker 1: I shouldn't say just go by what he sees, but 327 00:16:13,878 --> 00:16:16,918 Speaker 1: at least we'll fold that into the decision making process. 328 00:16:16,918 --> 00:16:19,918 Speaker 1: So I think these guys can impact the postseason, maybe 329 00:16:19,958 --> 00:16:22,598 Speaker 1: more than the regular season. And Joe, you had something 330 00:16:22,598 --> 00:16:24,758 Speaker 1: really interesting. We have this in our book, The Book 331 00:16:24,758 --> 00:16:27,998 Speaker 1: of Joe Podcast about the better the team is and 332 00:16:28,038 --> 00:16:31,598 Speaker 1: the more important the games become, the more the analytical 333 00:16:31,678 --> 00:16:35,118 Speaker 1: people want to get involved. I thought that was fascinating, 334 00:16:35,198 --> 00:16:38,038 Speaker 1: and maybe the reverse tends to be true, that maybe 335 00:16:38,038 --> 00:16:40,438 Speaker 1: that's the time you need to rely more on experience. 336 00:16:42,558 --> 00:16:44,518 Speaker 1: It's true. Um, you know, you get to the end 337 00:16:44,518 --> 00:16:46,278 Speaker 1: of the year, and you know you've worked so hard 338 00:16:46,318 --> 00:16:48,558 Speaker 1: and you're playing the same teams again in the playoffs 339 00:16:48,558 --> 00:16:50,158 Speaker 1: that you played all year. Then all of a sudden, 340 00:16:50,518 --> 00:16:53,598 Speaker 1: there comes to even more volumes of information to digest. 341 00:16:53,678 --> 00:16:56,558 Speaker 1: And truly, I mean, we're just we're talking about it's 342 00:16:56,598 --> 00:16:59,158 Speaker 1: a it's a it's a harder moment, it's a distinct moment. 343 00:16:59,198 --> 00:17:01,678 Speaker 1: It's the playoffs. Everybody's watching. You've been trying to get 344 00:17:01,678 --> 00:17:04,958 Speaker 1: here for years, and it's it's it is the small 345 00:17:04,998 --> 00:17:07,358 Speaker 1: sample size, it's a micro it's not the macro man. 346 00:17:07,958 --> 00:17:10,598 Speaker 1: And in that moment, things change rather quickly and you 347 00:17:10,718 --> 00:17:13,758 Speaker 1: just can't rely on these large numbers. You definitely need 348 00:17:13,798 --> 00:17:18,278 Speaker 1: to be more into trends at this particular point. Um. Yeah, 349 00:17:18,398 --> 00:17:22,518 Speaker 1: I've I've always wanted less info and not more info. 350 00:17:22,638 --> 00:17:25,118 Speaker 1: This time of the year. I wanted, uh, just a 351 00:17:25,118 --> 00:17:28,078 Speaker 1: few nuggets for anybody to hold onto because again, we've 352 00:17:28,078 --> 00:17:30,718 Speaker 1: played these teams primarily. All you're like, if there's a 353 00:17:30,758 --> 00:17:34,198 Speaker 1: group that you really haven't seen often, or there's new people, yeah, 354 00:17:34,438 --> 00:17:38,438 Speaker 1: everybody wants that intel. But if it's a guy you've 355 00:17:38,478 --> 00:17:41,318 Speaker 1: seen for a bit, whether it's a hitter or a picture, um, 356 00:17:41,558 --> 00:17:43,958 Speaker 1: just remind me, Just give me a nice quick reminder 357 00:17:44,038 --> 00:17:47,278 Speaker 1: here and then permit the coaches to fill in the 358 00:17:47,318 --> 00:17:50,638 Speaker 1: blanks when it's necessary. So yeah, I I really believe that. 359 00:17:50,758 --> 00:17:53,798 Speaker 1: I believe when you go into those moments, less is 360 00:17:53,798 --> 00:17:56,198 Speaker 1: better than more. I believe in those moments that you 361 00:17:56,278 --> 00:17:58,958 Speaker 1: really have to be nimble, flexible and rely on what 362 00:17:58,998 --> 00:18:02,238 Speaker 1: you're seeing to make decisions based on this trend, this 363 00:18:02,438 --> 00:18:06,158 Speaker 1: the short term, this micro as opposed to a larger 364 00:18:06,198 --> 00:18:08,438 Speaker 1: sample size that will benefit you in November when you 365 00:18:08,478 --> 00:18:11,638 Speaker 1: want to acquire somebody all about it. Yeah, and you know, 366 00:18:11,758 --> 00:18:14,158 Speaker 1: one of the more fascinating cases going on right now 367 00:18:14,158 --> 00:18:16,798 Speaker 1: when we talk about perhaps the pendulum swinging back, is 368 00:18:16,838 --> 00:18:20,518 Speaker 1: in Houston, right the world champion Houston Astros. They don't 369 00:18:20,558 --> 00:18:23,318 Speaker 1: have a general manager right now. James Click was let go, 370 00:18:23,558 --> 00:18:26,078 Speaker 1: or at least he was offered a contract that was 371 00:18:26,118 --> 00:18:28,238 Speaker 1: really designed to turn down just a one year deal. 372 00:18:28,438 --> 00:18:31,358 Speaker 1: Jim Crane is taking that organization in a different direction. 373 00:18:31,398 --> 00:18:34,278 Speaker 1: Of course, Jim Jeff lu Now built that organization heavily 374 00:18:34,318 --> 00:18:38,238 Speaker 1: on analytics. But it seems now that people like Jeff Bagwell, 375 00:18:38,318 --> 00:18:41,118 Speaker 1: Craig Vigio, Reggie Jackson have a big say and how 376 00:18:41,158 --> 00:18:44,198 Speaker 1: that team is being run, and Jim Crane listens to them. 377 00:18:44,238 --> 00:18:46,358 Speaker 1: He's around the clubhouse a lot more. I think Jim 378 00:18:46,398 --> 00:18:49,078 Speaker 1: Crane saw a team that, yeah, analytics won, but it 379 00:18:49,118 --> 00:18:51,598 Speaker 1: also got them in trouble with sign stealing. It all 380 00:18:51,638 --> 00:18:54,998 Speaker 1: began with algorithms from their analytical group about how we 381 00:18:55,038 --> 00:18:57,878 Speaker 1: can decipher signs, and it grew into something far worse. 382 00:18:58,318 --> 00:19:00,638 Speaker 1: So he's more in control. In the name I'm hearing 383 00:19:00,718 --> 00:19:02,678 Speaker 1: right now who might be the next general manager of 384 00:19:02,718 --> 00:19:04,958 Speaker 1: the Astros is Brad how Smith. He's a guy who 385 00:19:05,038 --> 00:19:06,918 Speaker 1: told the A's he wasn't coming back to their coaching 386 00:19:06,918 --> 00:19:09,518 Speaker 1: staff this year. Of course, he's very good friends with 387 00:19:09,878 --> 00:19:12,758 Speaker 1: both back Well and Busio, having played there. Fascinating to 388 00:19:12,838 --> 00:19:14,718 Speaker 1: see that a team that we thought was on the 389 00:19:14,758 --> 00:19:18,198 Speaker 1: front lines in the analytical movement. Now maybe, and I 390 00:19:18,198 --> 00:19:22,118 Speaker 1: say maybe, going in a more balanced direction. Yeah, and 391 00:19:22,158 --> 00:19:24,118 Speaker 1: again I'm all about that too. I think that's wise. 392 00:19:24,358 --> 00:19:27,238 Speaker 1: I I met Mr Crane, I just don't conversationally no 393 00:19:27,478 --> 00:19:31,558 Speaker 1: clicker really well. James and I worked together in Tampa Bay, 394 00:19:31,638 --> 00:19:34,118 Speaker 1: and of course I know Dusty, but uh, it is 395 00:19:34,158 --> 00:19:36,998 Speaker 1: it's all about balance and I we don't know exactly 396 00:19:37,038 --> 00:19:39,078 Speaker 1: what the conversations were like or why it led to 397 00:19:39,118 --> 00:19:42,958 Speaker 1: that particular momentum, although it does appear to me that 398 00:19:43,718 --> 00:19:45,958 Speaker 1: Mr Crane is looking it's just like you're saying, for 399 00:19:46,038 --> 00:19:49,278 Speaker 1: maybe a more traditional method in regards to getting this done, 400 00:19:49,758 --> 00:19:53,318 Speaker 1: utilizing the analytics in the where it really belongs. Like 401 00:19:53,358 --> 00:19:57,398 Speaker 1: I've said before, primarily I believe in the acquisitional area, 402 00:19:58,238 --> 00:20:01,198 Speaker 1: it's stellar. It doesn't make many mistakes. The thing, when 403 00:20:01,198 --> 00:20:04,238 Speaker 1: you talk about Houston's ascension, I think their defense really 404 00:20:04,278 --> 00:20:06,358 Speaker 1: got better. To run prevention got really better than that 405 00:20:06,598 --> 00:20:09,798 Speaker 1: is a heavy side of the analytical world. Where they're 406 00:20:09,838 --> 00:20:13,278 Speaker 1: pitching is so good and their players are normally standing 407 00:20:13,278 --> 00:20:15,878 Speaker 1: in the right spot, we catch line drives. I mean, see, 408 00:20:15,878 --> 00:20:17,758 Speaker 1: that's that's really what it comes down to. That you 409 00:20:17,798 --> 00:20:20,598 Speaker 1: get the right guys, you you lose a Korea And 410 00:20:20,598 --> 00:20:23,838 Speaker 1: here it comes Peen you lose a springer, and here 411 00:20:23,838 --> 00:20:26,838 Speaker 1: it comes to McCormick and and then Alonso goes to 412 00:20:26,918 --> 00:20:29,238 Speaker 1: left field and he holds that job down. Well, Uh, 413 00:20:29,478 --> 00:20:32,678 Speaker 1: Tucker sins. And of course Bregman was a great acquisition. 414 00:20:32,718 --> 00:20:36,518 Speaker 1: Moldonado not really good offensive player, but goes back there 415 00:20:36,558 --> 00:20:38,798 Speaker 1: and he's got a PhD In catching. And I don't 416 00:20:38,838 --> 00:20:41,118 Speaker 1: hand a picture so that there's a lot of old 417 00:20:41,198 --> 00:20:44,078 Speaker 1: school methods in this. But the reason when you talk 418 00:20:44,118 --> 00:20:46,278 Speaker 1: about analytically and lun and I don't again, I don't 419 00:20:46,278 --> 00:20:49,198 Speaker 1: know the process. But what they did, they're they're great 420 00:20:49,238 --> 00:20:51,358 Speaker 1: at run prevention. That's really what they're great at. And 421 00:20:51,358 --> 00:20:54,398 Speaker 1: then offensively they got some contact guys, guys that can 422 00:20:54,438 --> 00:20:57,038 Speaker 1: move the baseball. They had some pop, but they did 423 00:20:57,198 --> 00:21:00,358 Speaker 1: there's a lot of old school traditional stuff within that 424 00:21:00,438 --> 00:21:02,398 Speaker 1: if you really break it down. And I give him 425 00:21:02,438 --> 00:21:04,718 Speaker 1: a lot of credit, but you know, from clicks perspective, 426 00:21:05,038 --> 00:21:06,798 Speaker 1: I'm curious to speak to him at some point because 427 00:21:06,798 --> 00:21:08,798 Speaker 1: earlier in the year we were I was with the Angels, 428 00:21:08,838 --> 00:21:11,318 Speaker 1: yet we were playing him in Houston. I walked up 429 00:21:11,358 --> 00:21:12,518 Speaker 1: to when I said, you know, you guys got the 430 00:21:12,558 --> 00:21:16,038 Speaker 1: best team in the league. We're standing behind the batting 431 00:21:16,038 --> 00:21:19,398 Speaker 1: cage there and we talked about that, and James is 432 00:21:19,438 --> 00:21:21,998 Speaker 1: a really he's a good guy man. We used to 433 00:21:22,038 --> 00:21:26,598 Speaker 1: have great conversations. I know, is his wife Ace wonderful. Um, 434 00:21:26,678 --> 00:21:28,678 Speaker 1: So I'm curious and one of these days I'll get 435 00:21:28,678 --> 00:21:31,398 Speaker 1: to find out exactly what went on, because obviously there's 436 00:21:31,398 --> 00:21:33,478 Speaker 1: always more to it than the what appears to be 437 00:21:33,518 --> 00:21:36,638 Speaker 1: on the surface. Yeah, it's I agree on James Clark. 438 00:21:36,678 --> 00:21:38,358 Speaker 1: He did a great job there. Maybe just the fit 439 00:21:38,478 --> 00:21:40,478 Speaker 1: is not right for Jim Crane, but I'm sure he 440 00:21:40,518 --> 00:21:44,678 Speaker 1: will land somewhere and do well elsewhere as well. Um. 441 00:21:44,798 --> 00:21:47,238 Speaker 1: And finally, the last point for me on the Astros, Joe, 442 00:21:47,318 --> 00:21:50,398 Speaker 1: you mentioned there kind of a little blended old school 443 00:21:50,438 --> 00:21:52,358 Speaker 1: new school, but I think it shows up especially in 444 00:21:52,358 --> 00:21:55,398 Speaker 1: the postseason. It's remarkable to me that the Houston Astros 445 00:21:55,638 --> 00:22:00,038 Speaker 1: have essentially played the equivalent of a season in the 446 00:22:00,078 --> 00:22:02,838 Speaker 1: postseason the last six years. Their winning percentage of six 447 00:22:02,918 --> 00:22:05,718 Speaker 1: ten equated to playing at a hundred win pace. You're 448 00:22:05,718 --> 00:22:08,518 Speaker 1: talking about postseason baseball. And it was Billy Bean who 449 00:22:08,558 --> 00:22:11,238 Speaker 1: famously said, Hey, my stuff doesn't work in the postseason. 450 00:22:11,278 --> 00:22:14,318 Speaker 1: It's the postseason is a crapshoot. All our analytics go 451 00:22:14,398 --> 00:22:16,638 Speaker 1: away because it's a small sample size. And yet the 452 00:22:16,638 --> 00:22:19,118 Speaker 1: Astros are saying, no, no, wait, we can control a 453 00:22:19,118 --> 00:22:21,078 Speaker 1: lot of things like putting the ball and play, like 454 00:22:21,118 --> 00:22:23,598 Speaker 1: trusting our starting picture a third time through the lineup, 455 00:22:23,638 --> 00:22:27,158 Speaker 1: like playing good defense. There's a reason the Astros have 456 00:22:27,238 --> 00:22:30,078 Speaker 1: played six ten baseball in the postseason for six years, 457 00:22:30,278 --> 00:22:33,238 Speaker 1: within eighty games, and it's not because of luck. You've 458 00:22:33,238 --> 00:22:35,158 Speaker 1: seen that team play and it was a great call 459 00:22:35,198 --> 00:22:36,838 Speaker 1: on your part to see it early in the season 460 00:22:36,918 --> 00:22:39,678 Speaker 1: last year that it was the best team in baseball. Yeah, 461 00:22:39,718 --> 00:22:42,878 Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, that's that's a great uh breakdown 462 00:22:43,078 --> 00:22:46,798 Speaker 1: of exactly what occurs. Um. So when you're gonna build 463 00:22:46,838 --> 00:22:48,998 Speaker 1: your team, did you build your team for the playoffs? 464 00:22:49,078 --> 00:22:51,638 Speaker 1: And what we're just talking about their strident real stuff. 465 00:22:52,038 --> 00:22:54,118 Speaker 1: They got pictures, You got starting pictures that could go 466 00:22:54,158 --> 00:22:55,918 Speaker 1: more deeply in the games, which takes a burden off 467 00:22:55,918 --> 00:22:58,718 Speaker 1: your league pictures have been pitching all year there there's 468 00:22:58,758 --> 00:23:00,798 Speaker 1: they're normally fatigued by that time. But if you can 469 00:23:00,798 --> 00:23:02,878 Speaker 1: carry one more time through the batting water, that makes 470 00:23:02,918 --> 00:23:06,158 Speaker 1: them all better all season long. I love the the 471 00:23:06,318 --> 00:23:09,438 Speaker 1: contact component of the whole thing too. Whereas you just 472 00:23:09,478 --> 00:23:12,398 Speaker 1: can't go up there at home run walk, uh, strikeout. 473 00:23:12,798 --> 00:23:15,158 Speaker 1: These guys don't like the strikeout and they want to 474 00:23:15,158 --> 00:23:18,038 Speaker 1: move the baseball and they know there's there's different situations. 475 00:23:18,078 --> 00:23:20,438 Speaker 1: I've talked about this a lot. There's the different buckets 476 00:23:20,518 --> 00:23:23,198 Speaker 1: about the strikeout. It's not just one site fits all. 477 00:23:24,038 --> 00:23:26,358 Speaker 1: Run around there lesson to outs of strikeout really stinks, 478 00:23:26,598 --> 00:23:29,118 Speaker 1: run around second base, nobody out of strikeout really stinks. 479 00:23:29,558 --> 00:23:31,838 Speaker 1: Nobody on the two outs. I'm okay with the strikeout. 480 00:23:31,878 --> 00:23:34,318 Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's different reasons there, different methods to 481 00:23:34,438 --> 00:23:37,358 Speaker 1: attack a picture. A walk is always good in the 482 00:23:37,478 --> 00:23:40,198 Speaker 1: sense that you have you established your strike zone. And 483 00:23:40,238 --> 00:23:41,438 Speaker 1: rememb me when you get at the end of the 484 00:23:41,518 --> 00:23:43,038 Speaker 1: year and you have a balance between your walks and 485 00:23:43,038 --> 00:23:45,838 Speaker 1: your strikeouts, you're probably hitting to your potentials which are 486 00:23:45,918 --> 00:23:48,678 Speaker 1: capable of doing and maybe not be a three here, 487 00:23:48,678 --> 00:23:51,358 Speaker 1: you might be a solid two. But I'd like to 488 00:23:51,358 --> 00:23:55,478 Speaker 1: see a balance among all of that. Defense man, and 489 00:23:55,598 --> 00:23:58,358 Speaker 1: that reminds me of something Dusty Baker told me. Now, 490 00:23:58,358 --> 00:24:01,158 Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of miscast him as anti 491 00:24:01,238 --> 00:24:04,118 Speaker 1: analytics is just because he has some much experience. It's 492 00:24:04,158 --> 00:24:07,358 Speaker 1: they kind of overplay that angle. But he said listen. 493 00:24:07,398 --> 00:24:09,958 Speaker 1: I have my own system of analytics when it comes 494 00:24:09,998 --> 00:24:12,318 Speaker 1: to hitting. And what he does is he keeps track 495 00:24:12,398 --> 00:24:14,838 Speaker 1: of when there's a guy's second base less than two 496 00:24:14,878 --> 00:24:17,278 Speaker 1: outs or with nobody out, does the guy move him 497 00:24:17,278 --> 00:24:19,438 Speaker 1: over runner on third less than two outs? Does he 498 00:24:19,478 --> 00:24:22,318 Speaker 1: get him in runners in scoring position? Does he put 499 00:24:22,358 --> 00:24:25,358 Speaker 1: the ball in play and deliver runners? And he has 500 00:24:25,398 --> 00:24:27,558 Speaker 1: this little system, this a little math system where he 501 00:24:27,558 --> 00:24:30,358 Speaker 1: has points that he adds and subtracts based on whether 502 00:24:30,398 --> 00:24:32,078 Speaker 1: the hitter came through or not. It's the first time 503 00:24:32,118 --> 00:24:34,078 Speaker 1: I heard about this. Dusty was telling me this story 504 00:24:34,198 --> 00:24:36,878 Speaker 1: the postseason and he said there was one guy in 505 00:24:36,998 --> 00:24:40,238 Speaker 1: his team who came out on the positive side. He said, 506 00:24:40,318 --> 00:24:43,278 Speaker 1: that's my best clutch hitter, and it was Alex Bregman. 507 00:24:43,518 --> 00:24:45,878 Speaker 1: I thought that was great that, but Dusty Baker had 508 00:24:45,878 --> 00:24:49,158 Speaker 1: his own way of sort of measuring what it takes 509 00:24:49,198 --> 00:24:52,078 Speaker 1: to be a clutch hitter. Pretty cool. Yeah, I mean 510 00:24:52,078 --> 00:24:54,638 Speaker 1: I had the same set with the Angels even back 511 00:24:54,678 --> 00:24:56,438 Speaker 1: in the Instruction League in the nineteen eighties, and they 512 00:24:56,478 --> 00:24:59,238 Speaker 1: gave it to Jeremy Reid, and a couple of years 513 00:24:59,278 --> 00:25:01,398 Speaker 1: ago we were implementing it to the point where I 514 00:25:01,478 --> 00:25:03,998 Speaker 1: was giving got a nice bottle of wine after win 515 00:25:04,198 --> 00:25:06,238 Speaker 1: and winning game to the guy that had the best 516 00:25:06,278 --> 00:25:09,598 Speaker 1: point total during the offensively during the course of that game. 517 00:25:09,958 --> 00:25:12,118 Speaker 1: It's funny you wrote you're talking about that. I wrote 518 00:25:12,158 --> 00:25:13,638 Speaker 1: this a couple of days ago, and I don't know 519 00:25:13,638 --> 00:25:15,718 Speaker 1: if I've talked shared it with you yet. But experiences, 520 00:25:15,758 --> 00:25:19,998 Speaker 1: the experiences, you're analytical background that's necessary, always running in 521 00:25:20,038 --> 00:25:24,838 Speaker 1: the background, always uh permits the recognition of nuance, the 522 00:25:24,878 --> 00:25:29,438 Speaker 1: ability to adjust on the fly. That's that's experience is 523 00:25:29,438 --> 00:25:33,638 Speaker 1: an analytical too, and nobody recognizes that. When you have that, 524 00:25:33,998 --> 00:25:36,958 Speaker 1: it's always running back here it's always that, or even 525 00:25:36,958 --> 00:25:38,838 Speaker 1: in the RAM the part of the random axis memory 526 00:25:38,878 --> 00:25:42,238 Speaker 1: of your head um, it's always running. So experience has 527 00:25:42,278 --> 00:25:45,838 Speaker 1: an analytical component to it that's not given nearly enough credit. 528 00:25:46,038 --> 00:25:48,198 Speaker 1: Well said, Hey, we need to take a quick break, 529 00:25:48,278 --> 00:25:51,518 Speaker 1: and when we get back, we're gonna talk about Glue guys. 530 00:25:51,998 --> 00:26:03,558 Speaker 1: Gil Madden will explain Welcome back to the Book of Joe. 531 00:26:03,558 --> 00:26:07,078 Speaker 1: Podcas asked glue guys. This time of year, Joe and 532 00:26:07,238 --> 00:26:09,758 Speaker 1: teams are on the market looking for players. It seems 533 00:26:09,798 --> 00:26:12,278 Speaker 1: to be I think, and I know you do. I 534 00:26:12,398 --> 00:26:15,638 Speaker 1: think especially important. But first let's define it right. What 535 00:26:15,838 --> 00:26:18,638 Speaker 1: is a glue guy? Yeah, I was, I was thinking 536 00:26:18,638 --> 00:26:22,558 Speaker 1: about We've talked about this as you're alluding to Um. 537 00:26:22,558 --> 00:26:24,718 Speaker 1: First of all, glue guys there are leaders, aren't they. 538 00:26:24,718 --> 00:26:27,718 Speaker 1: I mean, glue guys have a leadership component to them. 539 00:26:27,758 --> 00:26:29,518 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean they have to be the star of 540 00:26:29,518 --> 00:26:32,078 Speaker 1: the team, but when in fact he is the star 541 00:26:32,158 --> 00:26:34,238 Speaker 1: of the team. That makes it even better, but doesn't 542 00:26:34,278 --> 00:26:37,358 Speaker 1: have to be the glue guys, it's part of it. 543 00:26:37,358 --> 00:26:41,678 Speaker 1: It's their personality, UM. And they're always working in the background, 544 00:26:41,718 --> 00:26:43,958 Speaker 1: there are they When they walk in the in the clubhouse, 545 00:26:43,998 --> 00:26:47,398 Speaker 1: they see things that nobody else recognizes. Somebody's in the 546 00:26:47,878 --> 00:26:51,318 Speaker 1: somebody's down, or something just something off with a particular player, 547 00:26:51,358 --> 00:26:54,078 Speaker 1: maybe something that occurred in the game the day before 548 00:26:54,118 --> 00:26:56,318 Speaker 1: that he really needs to bring to this person's attention, 549 00:26:56,798 --> 00:26:59,198 Speaker 1: normally something that went arise. Sometimes it could be something 550 00:26:59,238 --> 00:27:03,238 Speaker 1: that was good. But he's always working UM in the background, always, 551 00:27:03,238 --> 00:27:06,998 Speaker 1: and he's has this ability to connect with others and 552 00:27:07,038 --> 00:27:09,918 Speaker 1: a lot of that's probably great listening skills, but again, 553 00:27:10,278 --> 00:27:12,798 Speaker 1: it's like this antenna that goes up. You're you're able 554 00:27:12,838 --> 00:27:17,118 Speaker 1: to recognize when something's arry with somebody. Else. Um it is. 555 00:27:17,278 --> 00:27:22,438 Speaker 1: It's another sense. And for those that um uh poo pooh, 556 00:27:22,438 --> 00:27:25,158 Speaker 1: that that that notion, that's just because you don't have it. 557 00:27:25,798 --> 00:27:29,318 Speaker 1: Um it's a It's again it's ability to recognize when 558 00:27:29,398 --> 00:27:32,558 Speaker 1: something's um just awry within the group. And it's very 559 00:27:32,598 --> 00:27:35,318 Speaker 1: difficult to measure that. You have to be passionate. That 560 00:27:35,478 --> 00:27:37,558 Speaker 1: this person has got to be passionate about what he's 561 00:27:37,558 --> 00:27:40,438 Speaker 1: saying and it's got to be felt. It's it's almost 562 00:27:40,558 --> 00:27:42,998 Speaker 1: um it's a visceral. He doesn't have to be a 563 00:27:43,118 --> 00:27:46,918 Speaker 1: visceral component, doesn't have to be eloquent, but um, it's 564 00:27:46,958 --> 00:27:49,558 Speaker 1: just something that needs that has been felt, that needs 565 00:27:49,598 --> 00:27:53,558 Speaker 1: to be given to the rest of the group, either individually, 566 00:27:53,958 --> 00:27:57,238 Speaker 1: which it can be, or as a group. Level five guy. 567 00:27:58,158 --> 00:28:00,958 Speaker 1: All this guy uh wants to do is whin. He's 568 00:28:00,958 --> 00:28:03,598 Speaker 1: at that point in his career. And again, it doesn't 569 00:28:03,638 --> 00:28:05,678 Speaker 1: mean he has to be thirty three, thirty four with 570 00:28:05,718 --> 00:28:08,598 Speaker 1: the great back of a baseball card. It's just I'll 571 00:28:08,598 --> 00:28:10,638 Speaker 1: tell a guy that I really liked was Jared Wallace 572 00:28:10,638 --> 00:28:12,838 Speaker 1: with the Angels. Jared just started made the All Star 573 00:28:12,878 --> 00:28:15,558 Speaker 1: team last not this year, but the year before. While 574 00:28:15,638 --> 00:28:19,158 Speaker 1: she's got great respect among that group because of the 575 00:28:19,158 --> 00:28:22,998 Speaker 1: way communicates and handles difficult moments. As an example, I thought, 576 00:28:22,998 --> 00:28:26,878 Speaker 1: while she was really good in that clubhouse in Anaheim, Uh, 577 00:28:27,038 --> 00:28:29,318 Speaker 1: guys like we're talking, we're gonna talk about Rizzo and 578 00:28:29,358 --> 00:28:32,798 Speaker 1: even think David Fletcher, Rossi and Hayward with the with 579 00:28:32,918 --> 00:28:35,838 Speaker 1: the Cubs. I think Tony Camp with the A'SU does 580 00:28:35,838 --> 00:28:39,118 Speaker 1: a nice job and Schwerber demonstrated that this year and 581 00:28:39,558 --> 00:28:43,238 Speaker 1: with the Phillies and Tommulas Stella. As another example, utilizing 582 00:28:43,278 --> 00:28:47,118 Speaker 1: guys that I've been with, Tommy Law incredible the kind 583 00:28:47,118 --> 00:28:48,878 Speaker 1: of work he does on a daily basis when he 584 00:28:48,878 --> 00:28:52,838 Speaker 1: walks in the clubhouse. But these guys recognize see field 585 00:28:52,838 --> 00:28:55,638 Speaker 1: things that the other group doesn't necessarily pay attention to. 586 00:28:56,638 --> 00:29:00,038 Speaker 1: You can't just be about yourself to be a glue guy. Yeah, 587 00:29:00,078 --> 00:29:02,438 Speaker 1: my experience is the same Joe that to be a 588 00:29:02,478 --> 00:29:06,358 Speaker 1: glue guy, it takes the power of empathy. You have 589 00:29:06,598 --> 00:29:09,758 Speaker 1: to feel for other people and see things from outside 590 00:29:09,758 --> 00:29:12,198 Speaker 1: of your perspective. Now, if you don't, there's nothing wrong 591 00:29:12,238 --> 00:29:13,918 Speaker 1: with that. As you know that there's a lot of 592 00:29:13,998 --> 00:29:16,518 Speaker 1: just self starters who who need to stay in their 593 00:29:16,518 --> 00:29:19,198 Speaker 1: own bubble. That's the way they need to operate. It 594 00:29:19,198 --> 00:29:21,198 Speaker 1: doesn't make them bad guys. It just means that they 595 00:29:21,278 --> 00:29:24,278 Speaker 1: need those other people to be the mortar of a 596 00:29:24,318 --> 00:29:26,478 Speaker 1: team or the glue of a team to bring them together. 597 00:29:26,518 --> 00:29:28,238 Speaker 1: And you mentioned a couple right there. I think we 598 00:29:28,518 --> 00:29:31,118 Speaker 1: would be remiss if we didn't pay particular attention to 599 00:29:31,278 --> 00:29:34,038 Speaker 1: Jason Hayward and Anthony Rizzo, both of the news this week. 600 00:29:34,118 --> 00:29:37,118 Speaker 1: Of course, the Cubs just said goodbye to to Jason Hayward. 601 00:29:37,158 --> 00:29:39,238 Speaker 1: He had one more year left on his contract but 602 00:29:39,438 --> 00:29:41,798 Speaker 1: just doesn't fit and where they are right now, he'll 603 00:29:41,838 --> 00:29:44,918 Speaker 1: always be remembered, I think with the Cubs, not just 604 00:29:45,038 --> 00:29:47,758 Speaker 1: for that Game seven meeting during the rain delay, but 605 00:29:47,918 --> 00:29:51,038 Speaker 1: for being a great teammate, which is a very powerful 606 00:29:51,118 --> 00:29:54,398 Speaker 1: legacy that will be remembered beyond whatever his numbers were 607 00:29:54,478 --> 00:29:56,758 Speaker 1: with the Cubs. And then Rizzo signing back with the 608 00:29:56,758 --> 00:29:59,958 Speaker 1: New York Yankees. The Yankees understood this is a very 609 00:29:59,998 --> 00:30:03,518 Speaker 1: important piece of their puzzle. The left handed hitter, for sure, 610 00:30:03,958 --> 00:30:06,758 Speaker 1: very good defender at first base, yes, but he's the 611 00:30:06,798 --> 00:30:09,238 Speaker 1: glue of that team. And I'll give you an example. 612 00:30:09,318 --> 00:30:12,278 Speaker 1: They're hitting coach Dylan Lawston told me stories about how 613 00:30:12,318 --> 00:30:16,038 Speaker 1: Anthony really connected with Aaron Judge and Aaron Judge is 614 00:30:16,478 --> 00:30:18,398 Speaker 1: he's the heart and soul of the team because he's 615 00:30:18,438 --> 00:30:21,878 Speaker 1: such a good player. He's such a respected teammate, but 616 00:30:22,158 --> 00:30:27,278 Speaker 1: he's not really a vocal guy around others. He is 617 00:30:27,518 --> 00:30:30,318 Speaker 1: very diligent about what he does and you want him 618 00:30:30,358 --> 00:30:32,598 Speaker 1: on your team, but it takes a guy like Rizzo 619 00:30:32,638 --> 00:30:35,158 Speaker 1: to bring out the best in him. And Dylan Lawston 620 00:30:35,278 --> 00:30:37,118 Speaker 1: was telling me Anthony would go up to him before 621 00:30:37,118 --> 00:30:39,838 Speaker 1: a game and say, a big guy, if you don't 622 00:30:39,838 --> 00:30:41,598 Speaker 1: get your two hits, and if one of them not 623 00:30:41,638 --> 00:30:44,638 Speaker 1: a home run, we ain't winning today. And Judge would 624 00:30:44,678 --> 00:30:47,198 Speaker 1: be able to laugh about it because Anthony has that 625 00:30:47,358 --> 00:30:50,718 Speaker 1: way about him to say the right thing and put 626 00:30:50,718 --> 00:30:52,718 Speaker 1: a smile on your face and not feel like you're 627 00:30:52,758 --> 00:30:57,038 Speaker 1: being challenged by what he is saying. So empathy, sense 628 00:30:57,078 --> 00:31:01,198 Speaker 1: of humor, the ability to connect with others so important. 629 00:31:01,238 --> 00:31:04,278 Speaker 1: So if I'm a general manager and I'm houring a 630 00:31:04,358 --> 00:31:07,198 Speaker 1: free agent market, you better be darn sure there's a 631 00:31:07,278 --> 00:31:09,918 Speaker 1: box there for me to check on what else am 632 00:31:09,918 --> 00:31:13,438 Speaker 1: I getting from this player? Besides the numbers? You know 633 00:31:13,478 --> 00:31:15,198 Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, the part of it is he 634 00:31:15,278 --> 00:31:17,598 Speaker 1: just broke through that crusty nous of the Yankees and 635 00:31:17,598 --> 00:31:20,678 Speaker 1: permitted them to relax. That's what I see from Anthony, 636 00:31:20,798 --> 00:31:23,518 Speaker 1: and that's why he was so pertinent to their to 637 00:31:23,678 --> 00:31:25,718 Speaker 1: the to the how well they played this year and 638 00:31:25,758 --> 00:31:28,638 Speaker 1: how deeply that they got. I totally believe that. Then 639 00:31:28,678 --> 00:31:31,558 Speaker 1: you just said something that I was gonna bring up there. 640 00:31:31,638 --> 00:31:34,998 Speaker 1: I I don't understand why more guys don't pay attention 641 00:31:35,038 --> 00:31:38,518 Speaker 1: to acquiring guys just for that reason. I think it's 642 00:31:38,518 --> 00:31:41,078 Speaker 1: so important to my first when THEO Tom we got 643 00:31:41,158 --> 00:31:45,318 Speaker 1: David Ross, I was in my sixty sixty seven Galaxy parked. 644 00:31:45,318 --> 00:31:47,918 Speaker 1: I pulled over in the side of the road conversation 645 00:31:47,918 --> 00:31:49,918 Speaker 1: with David Ross, and after I didn't know David, after 646 00:31:49,958 --> 00:31:52,838 Speaker 1: five minutes, I knew this is exactly what we needed 647 00:31:52,878 --> 00:31:55,838 Speaker 1: with the Cubs to really get to the next level. Um, 648 00:31:55,878 --> 00:31:58,158 Speaker 1: when I was at the Raise in two thousand seven 649 00:31:58,158 --> 00:32:02,598 Speaker 1: into eight offseason, here came Cliff Floyd, Eric Kinsky and 650 00:32:02,638 --> 00:32:07,558 Speaker 1: Troy Persval that I mean Hinsky and employd part time players, 651 00:32:07,598 --> 00:32:10,278 Speaker 1: really pertinent. But then Percy was the closer until he 652 00:32:10,318 --> 00:32:13,558 Speaker 1: got hurt. But these are the guys that put you 653 00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:16,838 Speaker 1: over the top. These are the guys that within the clubhouse, 654 00:32:17,558 --> 00:32:20,158 Speaker 1: no we don't do that here, or yes, let's let's 655 00:32:20,198 --> 00:32:22,318 Speaker 1: do that here, and he kind of blesses it and 656 00:32:22,318 --> 00:32:25,918 Speaker 1: permits everybody else to relax and just move on. Sense 657 00:32:25,958 --> 00:32:28,358 Speaker 1: of humor is important, man, sense of humor, not taking 658 00:32:28,358 --> 00:32:31,598 Speaker 1: yourself too seriously is really important to all of us. 659 00:32:31,638 --> 00:32:34,318 Speaker 1: And I know that that's what Anthony brought to that group. 660 00:32:34,918 --> 00:32:37,558 Speaker 1: And again for all the groups out there that if 661 00:32:37,558 --> 00:32:40,878 Speaker 1: you're putting your your team together, don't ever overlook that 662 00:32:41,078 --> 00:32:44,278 Speaker 1: everybody wants uh and we all want the best of everything. 663 00:32:44,278 --> 00:32:46,678 Speaker 1: You want the best hitting coach, the best pitching coach, 664 00:32:46,718 --> 00:32:50,078 Speaker 1: the best short stuff whatever, the best backup catcher. But 665 00:32:50,158 --> 00:32:54,238 Speaker 1: don't don't overlook that this is a position that really 666 00:32:54,358 --> 00:32:56,998 Speaker 1: can add up to more wins. And it's really it's 667 00:32:56,998 --> 00:33:00,438 Speaker 1: really beneficial after some tough losses or after a little 668 00:33:00,478 --> 00:33:03,158 Speaker 1: when you're in a bad street, the glue guy, you 669 00:33:03,198 --> 00:33:06,198 Speaker 1: can get out and and say something to bring guys together, 670 00:33:06,318 --> 00:33:09,038 Speaker 1: just take him out to dinner or whatever. That really 671 00:33:09,118 --> 00:33:13,918 Speaker 1: helps you, uh uh, regain your momentum, regain your thought process, 672 00:33:13,958 --> 00:33:16,318 Speaker 1: get you back to where you had been. I'm all 673 00:33:16,358 --> 00:33:20,038 Speaker 1: about these guys. Yeah, and let's again talk about Jason 674 00:33:20,038 --> 00:33:23,478 Speaker 1: Hayward because I again, we talked about that meeting during 675 00:33:23,518 --> 00:33:25,518 Speaker 1: the rain delay Game seven of the World Series. But 676 00:33:25,558 --> 00:33:28,558 Speaker 1: as you know, Joe, you had conversations with Jason during 677 00:33:28,598 --> 00:33:32,078 Speaker 1: that series explaining why he wasn't in the starting lineup, 678 00:33:32,318 --> 00:33:34,918 Speaker 1: and you talk about as being a situation where it 679 00:33:34,958 --> 00:33:39,398 Speaker 1: would be easy to go into that woe is me h, 680 00:33:39,438 --> 00:33:42,318 Speaker 1: you know that shell and kind of check out, and 681 00:33:42,358 --> 00:33:45,318 Speaker 1: this is a guy not starting is the one who's 682 00:33:45,318 --> 00:33:48,278 Speaker 1: getting the team together to remind them, Hey, guys, we're 683 00:33:48,278 --> 00:33:50,318 Speaker 1: the better team here. We got here for a reason, 684 00:33:50,518 --> 00:33:52,638 Speaker 1: We're the best team. We're going to win. Let's not 685 00:33:52,758 --> 00:33:54,758 Speaker 1: lose sight of that. I mean, you talk about being 686 00:33:54,798 --> 00:33:57,718 Speaker 1: able to see outside of whatever your own issues are. 687 00:33:57,958 --> 00:33:59,518 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I don't want to make too big 688 00:33:59,518 --> 00:34:01,998 Speaker 1: a deal out of it, Joe, but I think that 689 00:34:02,038 --> 00:34:04,278 Speaker 1: will go down as a classic exam bull of a 690 00:34:04,318 --> 00:34:06,998 Speaker 1: guy being a glue guy and seeing what's best for 691 00:34:07,038 --> 00:34:09,678 Speaker 1: the team and not himself. Yeah, we had some really 692 00:34:09,758 --> 00:34:13,838 Speaker 1: hard conversations that that postseason, and it goes back to 693 00:34:13,878 --> 00:34:15,958 Speaker 1: one of the things we've talked about. I've always said, 694 00:34:15,998 --> 00:34:18,438 Speaker 1: if I tell you the truth, you might like me 695 00:34:18,478 --> 00:34:19,758 Speaker 1: for a week or two, But if I allow to 696 00:34:19,758 --> 00:34:23,318 Speaker 1: You're gonna hate me forever. So we had some tough conversation, 697 00:34:23,358 --> 00:34:25,078 Speaker 1: and I think it's a big part of that particular 698 00:34:25,158 --> 00:34:28,038 Speaker 1: job as a manager, as a coach and major league coach, 699 00:34:28,038 --> 00:34:30,118 Speaker 1: you have to have some difficult conversations and you have 700 00:34:30,158 --> 00:34:33,838 Speaker 1: to be straight up. And we were in our conversations 701 00:34:33,878 --> 00:34:37,678 Speaker 1: with Jeff j Hayward and I and eventually that You're right. 702 00:34:37,878 --> 00:34:39,678 Speaker 1: At least at this moment, he could have he could 703 00:34:39,718 --> 00:34:43,118 Speaker 1: have folded up. Why I'm you know, screw these guys. 704 00:34:43,358 --> 00:34:46,638 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not even playing. Why should I even 705 00:34:46,678 --> 00:34:49,478 Speaker 1: attempt to help in any way, even though I recognize 706 00:34:50,558 --> 00:34:53,438 Speaker 1: um at this particular juncture is something needs to be said, 707 00:34:53,918 --> 00:34:57,558 Speaker 1: And he really felt within his sain you I got this. 708 00:34:57,718 --> 00:34:59,758 Speaker 1: I know exactly what needs to be said right now, 709 00:34:59,758 --> 00:35:03,198 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna do it. That's bold, that takes that 710 00:35:03,318 --> 00:35:05,878 Speaker 1: takes some or there's a fearlessness about that. That is 711 00:35:05,958 --> 00:35:09,798 Speaker 1: true leadership to me. And of course, uh, I'm on 712 00:35:09,878 --> 00:35:11,878 Speaker 1: a on a book signing tour right now, and I'm 713 00:35:12,158 --> 00:35:14,878 Speaker 1: getting all these accolades that people are very nice, But 714 00:35:14,958 --> 00:35:16,758 Speaker 1: I don't even know to what extent or how much 715 00:35:16,838 --> 00:35:19,718 Speaker 1: percentage lies in the fact that that j Ward had 716 00:35:19,718 --> 00:35:23,198 Speaker 1: this wherewithal in this thought process and its leadership ability 717 00:35:23,238 --> 00:35:25,238 Speaker 1: to call them in that room and all of a 718 00:35:25,278 --> 00:35:28,598 Speaker 1: sudden everything changed. Uh and I really respect that a lot. 719 00:35:28,678 --> 00:35:31,598 Speaker 1: So yeah, God bless the Glue guys man. They can 720 00:35:31,638 --> 00:35:34,078 Speaker 1: make a huge difference in organization. Yeah, and I won't 721 00:35:34,078 --> 00:35:37,278 Speaker 1: surprise anybody to hear that Jason Hayward is is still 722 00:35:37,478 --> 00:35:40,198 Speaker 1: a glue guy even though he's no longer with the Cubs. 723 00:35:40,198 --> 00:35:43,838 Speaker 1: He's doing a lot in terms of providing opportunities and 724 00:35:43,838 --> 00:35:49,278 Speaker 1: financial resources for youngsters in Chicago, especially underserved families to 725 00:35:49,278 --> 00:35:51,638 Speaker 1: give them opportunities to play the game of baseball. So 726 00:35:52,038 --> 00:35:55,598 Speaker 1: he is again seeing outside of himself and contributing to 727 00:35:55,638 --> 00:35:59,038 Speaker 1: this game on a macro scale. So kudos to Jason Hayward. 728 00:35:59,198 --> 00:36:02,278 Speaker 1: So this is something Joe, I think we can always explore. 729 00:36:02,318 --> 00:36:04,478 Speaker 1: I'd like to make it a regular point of this 730 00:36:04,558 --> 00:36:07,478 Speaker 1: podcast or we talk about glue guys. Maybe get some 731 00:36:07,518 --> 00:36:10,798 Speaker 1: Glue guys on here to explain how it is what 732 00:36:10,878 --> 00:36:14,438 Speaker 1: they do. So I think it's something as you, being 733 00:36:14,518 --> 00:36:17,278 Speaker 1: a three time manager the year, understand that these guys 734 00:36:17,318 --> 00:36:19,438 Speaker 1: are important to to what you do. So how about 735 00:36:19,438 --> 00:36:21,198 Speaker 1: we make this a kind of a regular gig. I 736 00:36:21,318 --> 00:36:23,958 Speaker 1: love it. I've already written down some names. I'm gonna 737 00:36:23,998 --> 00:36:26,518 Speaker 1: try to get some phone calls or text out there 738 00:36:26,558 --> 00:36:29,158 Speaker 1: to try to grab some of these dudes come on 739 00:36:29,198 --> 00:36:31,358 Speaker 1: the show with us. I've reached out to Anthony, and 740 00:36:31,398 --> 00:36:34,198 Speaker 1: Anthony sure to be that he's gonna eventually do this 741 00:36:34,278 --> 00:36:35,798 Speaker 1: and in the near future, so I've got to get 742 00:36:35,838 --> 00:36:38,278 Speaker 1: back to him. I haven't had the chance to congratulate 743 00:36:38,318 --> 00:36:41,198 Speaker 1: him yet on being a Yankee again. So I think 744 00:36:41,238 --> 00:36:43,718 Speaker 1: Anthony be a perfect first guy to attempt to have 745 00:36:43,798 --> 00:36:45,878 Speaker 1: on our show. You love it. And by the way, 746 00:36:46,158 --> 00:36:50,038 Speaker 1: who would be the glue guy of the E Street Band. 747 00:36:51,398 --> 00:36:53,918 Speaker 1: It's you know, you think about being in a rock 748 00:36:53,958 --> 00:36:56,358 Speaker 1: and roll and having a band that stays together as 749 00:36:56,438 --> 00:36:58,958 Speaker 1: long as they have I mean back in the day, 750 00:36:59,198 --> 00:37:02,478 Speaker 1: I mean, was it Max Weinberg? Was it? I mean 751 00:37:02,518 --> 00:37:05,398 Speaker 1: Clarence Clemens would put us mile on anybody's face. I'm 752 00:37:05,398 --> 00:37:07,598 Speaker 1: not sure he's the most vocal guy, but everybody loved 753 00:37:07,598 --> 00:37:09,998 Speaker 1: being around him. And then you got the boss himself. 754 00:37:10,358 --> 00:37:12,318 Speaker 1: I mean, as you said, when your star is the 755 00:37:12,358 --> 00:37:15,398 Speaker 1: glue guy, that's the best of all worlds. Yeah, I mean, 756 00:37:15,438 --> 00:37:18,838 Speaker 1: of course, um, Bruce has got to be right there. 757 00:37:18,838 --> 00:37:20,758 Speaker 1: But I thought the same thing I thought Max, and 758 00:37:20,798 --> 00:37:24,158 Speaker 1: I thought Clarence, I really did when when you originally 759 00:37:24,198 --> 00:37:26,438 Speaker 1: asked that question. But then I went to the drummer. 760 00:37:26,518 --> 00:37:28,878 Speaker 1: The drummer isn't at the heartbeat of the whole group. 761 00:37:29,278 --> 00:37:32,638 Speaker 1: I've gotten to know Max. Max is now caught honorary 762 00:37:32,678 --> 00:37:35,558 Speaker 1: degree from Lafayette. He came in with my buddy Willie 763 00:37:35,598 --> 00:37:37,918 Speaker 1: for with the B Street Band, and they came and 764 00:37:37,918 --> 00:37:40,518 Speaker 1: did a gig at Lafayette at Z my fraternity house. 765 00:37:40,598 --> 00:37:42,998 Speaker 1: After the Steen World Series, I went back here for 766 00:37:43,038 --> 00:37:46,238 Speaker 1: the Lehigh game and Max came and played. He was 767 00:37:46,398 --> 00:37:48,438 Speaker 1: was up on the on the stage there with Willie 768 00:37:48,438 --> 00:37:51,398 Speaker 1: and his group. And then at that time he let it, 769 00:37:51,478 --> 00:37:53,118 Speaker 1: you know, and he wanted to go to Lafayette College 770 00:37:53,118 --> 00:37:55,598 Speaker 1: this whole time growing up, and then eventually think he 771 00:37:55,638 --> 00:37:59,278 Speaker 1: became a commencement speaker and uh and then now a 772 00:37:59,798 --> 00:38:03,438 Speaker 1: graduate of Lafayette College. So I'm going for Max just 773 00:38:03,478 --> 00:38:05,798 Speaker 1: based on being a Leopard to I. I love that, 774 00:38:05,838 --> 00:38:07,998 Speaker 1: I love the fact that he's the heartbeat of the group. 775 00:38:08,318 --> 00:38:10,278 Speaker 1: I love that we'll have to get one of those 776 00:38:10,318 --> 00:38:12,558 Speaker 1: E Street guys on here one of these days and 777 00:38:12,598 --> 00:38:14,398 Speaker 1: talk about it. We get Max. Look, get Max. You 778 00:38:14,478 --> 00:38:17,958 Speaker 1: gotta he's gotta, he's gotta accommodate a leopard. He's a 779 00:38:18,038 --> 00:38:20,838 Speaker 1: Jersey guy, right right. I'll get in touch. I got it, 780 00:38:20,918 --> 00:38:22,798 Speaker 1: got a good connection. I'll get in touch with Max. 781 00:38:23,038 --> 00:38:26,598 Speaker 1: I would love to hear that, like the similarities between 782 00:38:26,718 --> 00:38:30,118 Speaker 1: being in a band and being in a baseball team, 783 00:38:30,318 --> 00:38:33,598 Speaker 1: that kind of teamwork and what being a glue guy means. 784 00:38:33,638 --> 00:38:37,438 Speaker 1: I can't wait. We'll devote it's higher podcast episode to that. 785 00:38:37,558 --> 00:38:39,558 Speaker 1: An We'll go get Max. We'll get him on here. 786 00:38:39,598 --> 00:38:41,158 Speaker 1: I'm in, I'm in. I'm gonna start it today right 787 00:38:41,198 --> 00:38:44,118 Speaker 1: after we hang up. That's awesome. Always pleasure, Joe, you 788 00:38:44,198 --> 00:38:45,958 Speaker 1: got something to leave us with as we get out 789 00:38:45,958 --> 00:38:48,198 Speaker 1: of here, I do thank you. Always a pleasure, Manu. 790 00:38:48,718 --> 00:38:51,438 Speaker 1: Jay and I went to Lambertville down the New Hope, 791 00:38:51,438 --> 00:38:56,718 Speaker 1: New Hope, Pennsylvania, Lambert Deals across the bridge, um in Jersey, Pennsylvania. Beautiful, 792 00:38:56,798 --> 00:39:00,758 Speaker 1: magnificent area, and was our anniversary. Stopped in this cool 793 00:39:00,758 --> 00:39:04,438 Speaker 1: little shop and um it's called Zinc. Really wonderful, and 794 00:39:04,478 --> 00:39:07,798 Speaker 1: I picked up this little leather bound book for my 795 00:39:07,838 --> 00:39:09,838 Speaker 1: own personal notes. I'm doing a lot of writing in here. 796 00:39:09,878 --> 00:39:13,198 Speaker 1: But there's a quote from St Francis of Assisi, who 797 00:39:13,278 --> 00:39:16,318 Speaker 1: is a big part of the book Wayne Dyer's Wisdom 798 00:39:16,318 --> 00:39:18,678 Speaker 1: of the Ages. He has like three or four pages 799 00:39:18,718 --> 00:39:20,678 Speaker 1: devoted to him. But I thought this was great, and 800 00:39:20,678 --> 00:39:22,638 Speaker 1: that's why I got it. He who works with his 801 00:39:22,718 --> 00:39:25,758 Speaker 1: hands as a laborer, he who works with his hands 802 00:39:25,798 --> 00:39:28,398 Speaker 1: and his head as a craftsman, He who works with 803 00:39:28,438 --> 00:39:31,158 Speaker 1: his hands and his head and his heart as an artist. 804 00:39:32,358 --> 00:39:38,918 Speaker 1: And that was from St Francis of Assisi. I love that, beautiful, malicious. 805 00:39:39,398 --> 00:39:48,358 Speaker 1: Let's see you next time, all right, brother. Thanks. The 806 00:39:48,398 --> 00:39:51,518 Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast is a production of I Heart Radio. 807 00:39:51,758 --> 00:39:54,438 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I 808 00:39:54,638 --> 00:39:58,638 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.