WEBVTT - America's Final Precipice 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.640 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:19.759 Me your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.400 On today's show, I get into conversation with our friend 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:28.639 Sky Perryman, this CEO of Democracy Forward, and Sky and 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:34.880 I recorded this interview when the decision came down from 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:39.120 the Supreme Court. It is a dark conversation, but Sky 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:45.440 offers some light way forward and what I'm going to say, 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:51.360 as it is evident now where this country is headed. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:57.040 This week's episodes, I'm sorry to say, have been utterly 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.960 and completely depressing and really hard to do, frankly, because 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.640 I don't understand how we are still in a place 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.000 of indecision, or still in a place of people saying 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.520 stupid fucking things like they're not going to vote or 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.840 there's no difference between these two parties. I don't know 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.800 what else I can possibly do and offer, but I 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.360 know that for as long as I have WOKF, I 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.039 am going to tell the truth until the truth becomes illegal. 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:30.639 And those are the things that I have been thinking about. 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.360 I have been thinking about what must it have been 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:39.840 like to live inside of Germany and Austria, as Hitler 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.240 was making his way across Europe. What must it have 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.600 been like to live inside of South Africa during apartheid? 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.840 What must it be like to be in Gaza, to 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:56.280 be occupied the way that the Palestinians are in Israel? 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.760 What must it be like to live inside of Iran 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.360 and Turkey and Hungary. So many places around the world 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:14.079 have dealt with or are dealing with authoritarianism and dictatorships. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.640 It never occurred to me in my entire life, in 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:22.720 my entire life, that America could be one of them. 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.399 I have always believed in the possibility of this country. 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:31.560 I've always believed in its creed, even if it has 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.920 never lived up to it entirely. I've always believed what 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.200 Bill Clinton once said, that there is nothing that is 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.600 wrong with America that can't be fixed with what is 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:45.800 right by America. But we are in danger. The forces 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.800 of evil have conspired to drag this country back into 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:55.320 the darkest, darkest depths of itself, to a time when 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:02.000 white supremacy was the law of the land, where patriarchy 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.480 was the law of the land, where black people had 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:12.320 no rights, women had no voice and no protection, where 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:19.519 people who were queer had no safe space except in 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:27.040 dark basements and dark bars where workers had no protections 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.880 and no rights and were subjected to the will of 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:37.680 their employers, which were pretty much like they're enslavers. That 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:43.480 is the future, that is Project twenty twenty five. There 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.280 are many people who are still alive because Jim Crow 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:52.000 was not that long ago. That remember that time in America. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.240 It is why black people have been and black women 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:00.440 in particular have been the foundation of the Democratic Party 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:06.440 because so many remember Ruby Bridges is only sixty five 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:13.120 years old, the first young black girl to integrate schools 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.839 following Brown versus the Board of Education. Folks, that wasn't 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.640 so long ago. And these white supremacist bastards have had 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:27.839 the desire to bring us back. And like you know 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:34.000 what has been said by Kevin Roberts, by Donald Trump, 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.600 by so many Republicans, they got more guns on their side. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.680 Oh it'll remain bloodless so long as we are complicit 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:47.040 in our own subjugation. They are ready to rock, folks, 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:51.920 They are ready to turn this country into a nightmare. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:59.800 They get off on fear and terror. So you want 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:04.200 to spend time fighting for your life after or fighting 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:08.839 for yourself right now with your vote those are the 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:13.200 decisions that we have in front of us, and coming 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.520 up next, Sky Perryman and I will get into deeper 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:23.599 conversation about what is at stake, folks. I am so 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.520 happy to welcome back to wok F Daily Sky Perryman, 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.320 who is the President and CEO of Democracy Forward, a 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.719 non partisan national legal organization that promotes democracy and process 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:41.719 through litigation, regulatory engagement, policy, education and research, and has 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:48.200 made many appearances on Sky. Today, we are recording at 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.440 a time when the Supreme Court gave what I am 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:57.720 effectively as many people are calling, one of the last 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:05.360 major blows to our democracy by granting a president absolute 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:10.240 immunity so long as they can prove that whatever acts 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:15.479 they were committing were done so officially. In the descent 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:20.719 to that decision, Sonya, so to Mayor Justice KBJ. Kagan, 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:27.440 they all basically said, in fear of our democracy, we dissent. 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:34.120 Give us your thoughts and reactions to this egregious move 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:39.599 by the Supreme Court to effectively give a president the 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.000 same rights and privileges as a king. 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.839 Well, it is egregious, and it's especially a twist of 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.599 harmful irony. Of course, that this is happening just a 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.240 few days before July fourth. But you know, in the 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.960 United States, we don't have kings and or queens, and 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.320 yet the Supreme Court is seeking to act that way 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.120 as itself, and this is a very harmful decision. It 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.880 was also harmful that the court delayed the decision for 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:15.040 so many months, essentially ensuring and delaying accountability in the 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.560 criminal trial. We are urging, of course, the trial court 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.920 to act swiftly and to move towards that trial. No 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.720 one is above the law. But this is a very 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:32.000 devastating day for our democracy. This occurs against the backdrop, 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.520 as you know, we've talked about it before on your show, 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.640 but in twenty twenty one, the United States was added 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.840 to the list of backsliding democracies after the rampant election 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.960 denialism and the attempted insurrection at the Capitol. And so 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:53.200 this is really a very unfortunate and harmful and very 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:59.960 highly concerning, dangerous step that could accelerate that backsliding. Further said, 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.720 we know that people in this country do have a voice, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.040 and it's going to be very important, as we always 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.560 emphasize when we talk together, Danielle, that people and communities 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:14.080 understand what's going on, be vigilant and demand better from 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.440 their elected leaders and also from the Supreme Court. 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:23.960 You know, your organization its mission is to uphold democracy, 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.920 to push for policy that is about all of us 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.520 and that some of us. Where are you all in 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:35.520 your thinking about next steps? I mean, I like, I 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:40.960 feel like a lot of organizations are disaster planning in 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.280 a lot of ways. Right what are we going to 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.360 look like in twenty twenty five? What are we going 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.040 to look like five months from now? So what does 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.880 it look like to have this decision come forward and 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.720 then be thinking about where we go from here in 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.120 terms of your own organization and then as a society. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.559 Well, let me say the first thing, and we say 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.480 this all the time, but we cannot give into cynicism. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:06.920 And there is a lot of cynicism right now, and 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.880 including cynicism frankly from the Supreme Court term and we'll 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.320 talk about some other decisions that are also quite cinample 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.040 that are part of this far right effort to undermine 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.160 a functioning society, to undermine a democracy that works for 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.040 all of us. But we are not going to give 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.240 into cynicism. And so what that looks like is first 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.560 of all, understanding what's going on and demanding more. It 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.880 turns out that while our Constitution wasn't perfect and didn't 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.800 include everybody when it was drafted, there are tools in 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:40.120 that constitution that can in fact bring about a better society. 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.680 Our Congress, our elected branch of government, has a role 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.360 to play with respect to courts, when justices are acting 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:52.480 out ethically, when justices have conflicts of interest, and when 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.760 the courts are not functioning in the way they should 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:59.160 function in a democracy. Our Congress has power there or 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.720 state legislation at the state level, and elected representatives at 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.360 the state level have state based power and state based 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.240 disputes and vites, And so I think it's really important 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.719 that we look at all of the avenues and use 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.200 all the tools that our democracy can provide. It is 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:19.120 pastime for Congress and for the American people to hold 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.320 the Supreme Court accountable and to hold federal judges accountable 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.400 if they are not going to defend democracy and fully 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.280 execute their obligations under the Constitution. But also we can 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.760 be prepared, and we can be prepared in courts across 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.000 the country. So maybe we'll talk a little bit about 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.920 what else we saw the suppose sure, and how we 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.440 have been anticipating this and have tools for communities to 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.920 be able to use their voices at this time to 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.920 build for the democracy that we all know the American 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.120 people want, believe in and deserve. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.400 So let's go over go you know for us where 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:52.240 where we are. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.520 Yeah. So, at the same time that the Court and 0:10:55.800 --> 0:11:01.240 like headline breaking news, was providing the president more power 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.599 than even our founders contemplated, right making the President of 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:10.240 King It's Justice Sodomyora and others so verbalize in their descent, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:15.840 the Supreme Court was also hypocritically taking powers away from 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.240 federal agencies, which are part of the executive branch that 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.079 do the work of the American people. When Congress passes laws. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.400 Congress passes broad laws to help solve problems for folks 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.000 in the country, but it's really the executive branch, that 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.679 presidential branch and all the federal agencies that have to 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.800 execute the laws. But this term the Supreme Court dealt 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.280 a devastating blow, including today, by the way, and the 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.319 other decision it issued in Corner Posts versus Federal Reserve, 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:44.880 but then also in two other cases known as Low 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.720 or Bright and relentless, delta devastating blow to that system 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:53.960 of government, essentially consolidating power in itself. The Court as 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.320 opposed to the way for more than forty years, and 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.600 you can even go back for decades before that government 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.080 has functioned, where when Congress passes the law that protects people, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.680 it's our federal agencies that interpret and implement that law 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:13.040 in accordance with their expertise setting policy and regulation. The 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.439 Court really delta devastating below to that system by overturning 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.000 something known as Chevron defference, which of course I think 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.160 your viewers are probably our listeners are probably hearing about. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.920 And so this is a really hypocritical moment, right because 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:29.239 you have the Supreme Court deciding against the federal executive 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.439 with respect to routine policy making that it has been 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.559 doing for decades, but then consolidating just really unprecedented amounts 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.200 of almost keen like power with respect to this immunity decision, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:46.720 which is incredibly unfortunate. So a democracy forward, we understood 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.400 that these cases were going to be coming down, and 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.680 so we've been really building a lot of resources where 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.040 we can track what far right organizations that others might 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.560 seek to do with these new developments in the law, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.560 to enable people and communities to go into the courts 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.040 early on and to be able to explain why these 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.400 are horriful decisions that should not be expanded further, and 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.160 to be able to really push back. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.080 So what does it look like to push back? Because 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.560 I have to tell you that today is one I 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.600 know that you said we don't have time for cynicism, 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.360 and you know, and in some ways I absolutely agree 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.120 with you, But that is in a lot of ways 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.000 where people are they are you know, for some have 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.360 been tracking this news and have been following the decisions 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.480 coming down from the Supreme Court. For others, you know, 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.679 I just alerted my own family to the decisions that 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.440 have been coming down, and they are beside themselves and 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.640 they're just like, what was like, what was the point 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.800 of us voting for Biden? What was the point of 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:47.960 us being told that we were going to hang on 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.600 to democracy in this next election when four years later, 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.719 this is where we are, We're worse off than we 0:13:54.720 --> 0:14:00.000 were in twenty twenty. So what does democracy moving forward 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:01.200 actually look like? 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.080 Well, first of all, we're not going to let extremists 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.760 have the last word, and so what that pushback looks 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.280 like is it first of all, looks like doing exactly 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.000 what you did, calling your friends and family and talking 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.080 about what's going on, and making sure people are getting 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.760 educated and are able to use their voices in the 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.160 way they can. That is through voting, but it is 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.840 also through being members of communities, talking and speaking out. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.560 We know that people really have a voice in this moment. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.840 I will also say that our elected representatives have work 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.320 to do. Congress has power to fix the court to 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:41.280 ensure that justices are operating ethically. It is absolutely absurd 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.680 that we have, years after we are dealing with rampant 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.720 election denialism denihalism, by the way, that started in twenty 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.960 sixteen when former President Trump did not win the popular 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.520 vote and sought to dispute facts and evidence. But we 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.880 still see this movement now throughout the country, not associated 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.280 with any particular candidate, and we see this movement throughout 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.080 the country. It's really important we have Supreme Court justices 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:08.160 that have been seen with insurrection as symbols flying outside 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.760 of our homes and so here are you know, our 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.960 constitution provides the tools. It is time for Congress to 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.320 take a much closer look than it has been taking 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.640 at the Court, and to use its power to demand 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:26.600 that the Court be subject to binding ethical codes, to 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.640 think about court reforms that are a number of them 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.080 that have been proposed by people like Jamie Raskin, by 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.360 others in the Senate as well, and the House, the 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.840 Incenate as well, And so I think that there are 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.600 these tools. The other thing I would say is that 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.760 there has been a lot of progress made in the 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.400 past few years. We have seen the economy start doing better. 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.200 We've seen people and communities be able to thrive in 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.040 certain ways. But we have also seen, as a result 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.520 of I think the rising tide of a more inclusive, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.480 more vibrant of allocracy for all people, this extreme pushback 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.920 which you see with things like Dobbs and the overturning 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:07.880 of Rogie Wade. And we'll get to the Court's abortions 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.280 decisions this time and other things. And so it's important 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.000 to know who's behind these This is not a majority 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:19.480 of Americans. This is a well funded, highly coordinated extremist 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.120 movement that is seeking to be louder and will power 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.800 over everyone. And part of it is making up our 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.360 minds that we're not going to let them have the 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.080 last word. We're going to do the work. We're going 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:30.760 to be able to look this destruction in the eye 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:32.880 and not blink and speak out. And I know that 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.960 people are very tired in this moment, but think about 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.400 what people that came before us did in times of 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.680 pail and we would not be where we are today 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.920 without the persistence in the fight for a true democracy. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.080 And so that's what we're really trying to focus our 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.200 work on and using the tools under these new legal 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.400 frameworks in order to push back. 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.800 I want to read on this post by Alexandria Cassier 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.400 Quortez with regard to Congress's role, as you're saying, yes, 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.920 she tweeted this, the Supreme Court has become consumed by 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:09.520 a corruption crisis beyond its control. Today's ruling represents an 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.119 assault on American democracy. It is up to Congress to 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.439 defend our nation from this authoritarian capture. I intend on 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:23.280 filing articles of impeachment upon our return. What is your 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:24.159 response to that? 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.760 I mean, I think it is important that members of Congress, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.520 and we've seen her, we've seen Jamie Raskin, we've seen 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.040 senators as well, really start reminding the American people of 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.480 the power and the obligation that Congress has with respect 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.879 to court reforms, with respect to transparency, with respect to 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.080 ethics reform, and a variety of other reform measures that 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.720 are out there. Several years ago when the far right 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.120 really started, it didn't start, but really several years ago 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.280 when we started seeing the first evidence of really how 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.320 far the spar right capture had gone with respect to 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.399 some of our courts. I think the American people didn't 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.879 really know how serious it was, or it was hard 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.200 to understand it. We have now seen YEP with dog 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.320 YEP with decisions last summer, with decisions that are undermining 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.080 the environment. This term, we're having a decision that's going 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.199 to make it easier for people to obtain automatic weapons. 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.600 I mean, these are distructive decisions for our people and communities. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.480 And so I think the American public is there. If 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.040 you look at the pulling people in our country right 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:28.360 now are very dissatisfied with the extremism of the US 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.280 Supreme Court and of the movements behind it, and so 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.520 it is important that everyone do, including Congress, the part 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:35.200 of this time. 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.000 I want to switch gears for a moment to the 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:45.439 abortion decisions that we just had as well. But the 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.480 thing that I just thought of when you reminded us 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.400 of the easier to obtain automatic weapons and the ability 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.000 to use magazines. I just can't help but think of 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.960 the fact that this Supreme Court has really set up 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.800 the ability for milicious like to embolden militias, for Donald 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.240 Trump to tell folks to stand back and stand by 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.320 and to be immune from anything that they do. And 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.080 that is just like again, the seriousness and the connecting 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.240 of the dots of where we are and what was 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:21.720 just decided mif of pristone and Mtala, two major decisions 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.320 that came down. Talk to us about where we are 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.840 on that, because the Atala decision in a lot of 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.760 ways was still, according to Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, a 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.639 dawdling continuing dawdling of the Supreme Court in the permission 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.120 structure that is necessary to save people's lives in Idaho. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:40.639 So tell us about where we are there. 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.479 Yes, I mean, we're heavily involved in both of those cases. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.119 In the Intala case, which for your listeners, that's the 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:51.440 emergency abortion case where there are people that are experiencing 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.280 dire complications in pregnancy where the medical care that is 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.960 required is a pregnancy termination or an abortion. Under our 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.119 federal law, when you present to an emergency room in 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.239 this country, you can't be turned away if you're in 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:08.359 that dire condition. The emergency rooms that take federal funds, 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:11.600 which is the vast majority of them, have to provide 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:17.159 emergency care. Unfortunately, after Dobbs, far right attorney generals working 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.040 with these far right organizations that are responsible in many 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.600 ways their funding structures, are responsible for the courts that 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:27.359 we have today. They are opposing basic federal law and 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:32.840 saying that state abortion bands can override federal emergency room protections, 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.520 which is not what our constitution says. Again, our Constitution 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.440 does have some tools there, and it's very clear in 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.400 the Constitution that federal law takes precedence over state law 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.119 on the two conflict. This got up to the Supreme Court, 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:50.520 and the Supreme Court essentially has delayed its substantive decision 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.360 in the matter. It did issue a ruling that will 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.960 enable women in Idaho who have been deprived of emergency 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:02.399 care for months of emergency here because the Supreme Court 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.520 itself stayed a district court order that was seeking to 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.680 protect these women. So again this is a problem of 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.520 the Court's own making. The Court is returning this issue 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.720 down to the lower courts, and as a result, in Idaho, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.320 women right now will be able to get some of 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:21.760 that emergency care. But the Court declined to rule definitively 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:26.080 as it should have and as our constitution requires. The 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:30.200 Idaho abortion band conflicted with this federal protection. What that 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.000 means is for women in Texas, for women in Florida, 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.280 for women across the country in these states that a 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:39.200 band abortion where far right attorney's generals and special interest 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.480 organizations are seeking to deprive people of an emergency medical care, 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.680 They're still going to be deprived of that care apbsent 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:49.879 additional intervention. The cynical part, because we started talking about Seneca, 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:51.240 We're not going to give rise to it. But I 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.919 am going to point this out. The cynical part of 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.520 this is that you know, we do know this is 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.159 an important year in many ways, and we know how 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:03.119 voters are respond to these attacks on our freedoms and 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.760 particularly reproductive freedom, and particularly in these situations where these 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.040 are moms and women who this is really die or 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.239 for their health. And so the cynical part of this 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:15.720 is that the Court, of course has sort of avoided 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.440 this issue while all eyes are on it in this gear. 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.399 And we already know that there are cases tied up, 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.320 for instance, out of Texas and out of the Fifth 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:25.560 Circuit where this could come back up to the Court, 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.199 maybe in a quieter year, one where there's not a 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.520 major national election, and the Court could could be poised 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.840 to deprive people to go further than Daubs, even further 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.840 than our constitution permits, and to deprive people of this care. 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.879 So this is why I say it's really important that 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.199 we all be following this or am I going to 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.640 give into the cynicism. We know that we're the majority. 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:48.560 We know the vast majority of people in this country 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.960 believe in the promise and potential of democracy, and it 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.840 is time to start demanding that of everybody, whether they're 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.520 in the judiciary, whether they're elected officials, you know, whoever 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:58.840 they are. But at the same time, we need to 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.200 be wise to what's happening here and if a pristone 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:04.840 case where we're really where we have been, you know, 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:08.360 involved there, the Court rejected said that the case ever 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:11.080 belonged in the court, that the special interest organization that 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.040 brought the case was not harmed, did not have standing. 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.480 But as you see, the chaos is the point of 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:18.320 this because it's been almost you know, it's been over 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.480 year that there have been you know, emergency had you know, 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.119 emergency every day where people are thinking they're going to 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:27.440 be deprived of or that if a pristone is going 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.639 to be restricted. And in that case also we have 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:34.520 far right state attorneys general who have sought to intervene 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:36.960 in the case in a lower course. We don't believe 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.680 they should be able to. But again that's another case 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.480 that could come back up maybe when the court thinks 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.679 that folks aren't paying as close as attention. So so 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.320 I think these are really areas to watch. They are 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.400 areas where with all of these cases, including the immunity case. 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:54.879 And I say this often on shows right now, but 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.760 when extremists, you know, tell you what they're going to do, 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:00.639 it's time to believe them, and it's time to believe 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:02.560 them and get real serious about what we're going to 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.199 do in this time, to fight for the democracy that 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:08.440 we know that everyone that the vast majority of people 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:09.879 in this country want and deserve. 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:12.720 We will leave it there for today. But I know 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:16.720 that we will be calling on you again in the 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.199 weeks and months to come, because I feel like Americas 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:25.760 is reaching its final precipice as it pertains to democracy. 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:28.800 Well, this is what I'll say, maybe to end on this. 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:33.240 These are unprecedented of very concerning times, and we're not 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:34.720