1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: Me your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 3 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: On today's show, I get into conversation with our friend 4 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: Sky Perryman, this CEO of Democracy Forward, and Sky and 5 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: I recorded this interview when the decision came down from 6 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. It is a dark conversation, but Sky 7 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: offers some light way forward and what I'm going to say, 8 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: as it is evident now where this country is headed. 9 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: This week's episodes, I'm sorry to say, have been utterly 10 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: and completely depressing and really hard to do, frankly, because 11 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: I don't understand how we are still in a place 12 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: of indecision, or still in a place of people saying 13 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: stupid fucking things like they're not going to vote or 14 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: there's no difference between these two parties. I don't know 15 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: what else I can possibly do and offer, but I 16 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: know that for as long as I have WOKF, I 17 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: am going to tell the truth until the truth becomes illegal. 18 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,639 Speaker 1: And those are the things that I have been thinking about. 19 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: I have been thinking about what must it have been 20 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: like to live inside of Germany and Austria, as Hitler 21 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: was making his way across Europe. What must it have 22 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: been like to live inside of South Africa during apartheid? 23 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: What must it be like to be in Gaza, to 24 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: be occupied the way that the Palestinians are in Israel? 25 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: What must it be like to live inside of Iran 26 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: and Turkey and Hungary. So many places around the world 27 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: have dealt with or are dealing with authoritarianism and dictatorships. 28 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: It never occurred to me in my entire life, in 29 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: my entire life, that America could be one of them. 30 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,399 Speaker 1: I have always believed in the possibility of this country. 31 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: I've always believed in its creed, even if it has 32 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: never lived up to it entirely. I've always believed what 33 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton once said, that there is nothing that is 34 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: wrong with America that can't be fixed with what is 35 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: right by America. But we are in danger. The forces 36 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: of evil have conspired to drag this country back into 37 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: the darkest, darkest depths of itself, to a time when 38 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: white supremacy was the law of the land, where patriarchy 39 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: was the law of the land, where black people had 40 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: no rights, women had no voice and no protection, where 41 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: people who were queer had no safe space except in 42 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: dark basements and dark bars where workers had no protections 43 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: and no rights and were subjected to the will of 44 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: their employers, which were pretty much like they're enslavers. That 45 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: is the future, that is Project twenty twenty five. There 46 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: are many people who are still alive because Jim Crow 47 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: was not that long ago. That remember that time in America. 48 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: It is why black people have been and black women 49 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: in particular have been the foundation of the Democratic Party 50 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: because so many remember Ruby Bridges is only sixty five 51 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: years old, the first young black girl to integrate schools 52 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: following Brown versus the Board of Education. Folks, that wasn't 53 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: so long ago. And these white supremacist bastards have had 54 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: the desire to bring us back. And like you know 55 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: what has been said by Kevin Roberts, by Donald Trump, 56 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: by so many Republicans, they got more guns on their side. 57 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: Oh it'll remain bloodless so long as we are complicit 58 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: in our own subjugation. They are ready to rock, folks, 59 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: They are ready to turn this country into a nightmare. 60 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: They get off on fear and terror. So you want 61 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: to spend time fighting for your life after or fighting 62 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: for yourself right now with your vote those are the 63 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: decisions that we have in front of us, and coming 64 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: up next, Sky Perryman and I will get into deeper 65 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: conversation about what is at stake, folks. I am so 66 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: happy to welcome back to wok F Daily Sky Perryman, 67 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: who is the President and CEO of Democracy Forward, a 68 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: non partisan national legal organization that promotes democracy and process 69 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: through litigation, regulatory engagement, policy, education and research, and has 70 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: made many appearances on Sky. Today, we are recording at 71 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: a time when the Supreme Court gave what I am 72 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: effectively as many people are calling, one of the last 73 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: major blows to our democracy by granting a president absolute 74 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: immunity so long as they can prove that whatever acts 75 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: they were committing were done so officially. In the descent 76 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: to that decision, Sonya, so to Mayor Justice KBJ. Kagan, 77 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: they all basically said, in fear of our democracy, we dissent. 78 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: Give us your thoughts and reactions to this egregious move 79 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court to effectively give a president the 80 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: same rights and privileges as a king. 81 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: Well, it is egregious, and it's especially a twist of 82 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 2: harmful irony. Of course, that this is happening just a 83 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: few days before July fourth. But you know, in the 84 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: United States, we don't have kings and or queens, and 85 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: yet the Supreme Court is seeking to act that way 86 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: as itself, and this is a very harmful decision. It 87 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: was also harmful that the court delayed the decision for 88 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: so many months, essentially ensuring and delaying accountability in the 89 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: criminal trial. We are urging, of course, the trial court 90 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: to act swiftly and to move towards that trial. No 91 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: one is above the law. But this is a very 92 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: devastating day for our democracy. This occurs against the backdrop, 93 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: as you know, we've talked about it before on your show, 94 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: but in twenty twenty one, the United States was added 95 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: to the list of backsliding democracies after the rampant election 96 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: denialism and the attempted insurrection at the Capitol. And so 97 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: this is really a very unfortunate and harmful and very 98 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: highly concerning, dangerous step that could accelerate that backsliding. Further said, 99 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: we know that people in this country do have a voice, 100 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: and it's going to be very important, as we always 101 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: emphasize when we talk together, Danielle, that people and communities 102 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: understand what's going on, be vigilant and demand better from 103 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: their elected leaders and also from the Supreme Court. 104 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: You know, your organization its mission is to uphold democracy, 105 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: to push for policy that is about all of us 106 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: and that some of us. Where are you all in 107 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: your thinking about next steps? I mean, I like, I 108 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of organizations are disaster planning in 109 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. Right what are we going to 110 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: look like in twenty twenty five? What are we going 111 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: to look like five months from now? So what does 112 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: it look like to have this decision come forward and 113 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: then be thinking about where we go from here in 114 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: terms of your own organization and then as a society. 115 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 2: Well, let me say the first thing, and we say 116 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: this all the time, but we cannot give into cynicism. 117 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: And there is a lot of cynicism right now, and 118 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: including cynicism frankly from the Supreme Court term and we'll 119 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: talk about some other decisions that are also quite cinample 120 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: that are part of this far right effort to undermine 121 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 2: a functioning society, to undermine a democracy that works for 122 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: all of us. But we are not going to give 123 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: into cynicism. And so what that looks like is first 124 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: of all, understanding what's going on and demanding more. It 125 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: turns out that while our Constitution wasn't perfect and didn't 126 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: include everybody when it was drafted, there are tools in 127 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 2: that constitution that can in fact bring about a better society. 128 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 2: Our Congress, our elected branch of government, has a role 129 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: to play with respect to courts, when justices are acting 130 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: out ethically, when justices have conflicts of interest, and when 131 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: the courts are not functioning in the way they should 132 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: function in a democracy. Our Congress has power there or 133 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: state legislation at the state level, and elected representatives at 134 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: the state level have state based power and state based 135 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: disputes and vites, And so I think it's really important 136 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 2: that we look at all of the avenues and use 137 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: all the tools that our democracy can provide. It is 138 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: pastime for Congress and for the American people to hold 139 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court accountable and to hold federal judges accountable 140 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: if they are not going to defend democracy and fully 141 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: execute their obligations under the Constitution. But also we can 142 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: be prepared, and we can be prepared in courts across 143 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: the country. So maybe we'll talk a little bit about 144 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: what else we saw the suppose sure, and how we 145 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: have been anticipating this and have tools for communities to 146 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 2: be able to use their voices at this time to 147 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: build for the democracy that we all know the American 148 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: people want, believe in and deserve. 149 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: So let's go over go you know for us where 150 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: where we are. 151 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, at the same time that the Court and 152 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: like headline breaking news, was providing the president more power 153 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,599 Speaker 2: than even our founders contemplated, right making the President of 154 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 2: King It's Justice Sodomyora and others so verbalize in their descent, 155 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court was also hypocritically taking powers away from 156 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: federal agencies, which are part of the executive branch that 157 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 2: do the work of the American people. When Congress passes laws. 158 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: Congress passes broad laws to help solve problems for folks 159 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: in the country, but it's really the executive branch, that 160 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 2: presidential branch and all the federal agencies that have to 161 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: execute the laws. But this term the Supreme Court dealt 162 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: a devastating blow, including today, by the way, and the 163 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 2: other decision it issued in Corner Posts versus Federal Reserve, 164 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: but then also in two other cases known as Low 165 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: or Bright and relentless, delta devastating blow to that system 166 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: of government, essentially consolidating power in itself. The Court as 167 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: opposed to the way for more than forty years, and 168 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: you can even go back for decades before that government 169 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: has functioned, where when Congress passes the law that protects people, 170 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: it's our federal agencies that interpret and implement that law 171 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: in accordance with their expertise setting policy and regulation. The 172 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 2: Court really delta devastating below to that system by overturning 173 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: something known as Chevron defference, which of course I think 174 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: your viewers are probably our listeners are probably hearing about. 175 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: And so this is a really hypocritical moment, right because 176 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,239 Speaker 2: you have the Supreme Court deciding against the federal executive 177 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 2: with respect to routine policy making that it has been 178 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 2: doing for decades, but then consolidating just really unprecedented amounts 179 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: of almost keen like power with respect to this immunity decision, 180 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 2: which is incredibly unfortunate. So a democracy forward, we understood 181 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: that these cases were going to be coming down, and 182 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: so we've been really building a lot of resources where 183 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: we can track what far right organizations that others might 184 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: seek to do with these new developments in the law, 185 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: to enable people and communities to go into the courts 186 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: early on and to be able to explain why these 187 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: are horriful decisions that should not be expanded further, and 188 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 2: to be able to really push back. 189 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: So what does it look like to push back? Because 190 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: I have to tell you that today is one I 191 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: know that you said we don't have time for cynicism, 192 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: and you know, and in some ways I absolutely agree 193 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: with you, But that is in a lot of ways 194 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: where people are they are you know, for some have 195 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: been tracking this news and have been following the decisions 196 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: coming down from the Supreme Court. For others, you know, 197 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: I just alerted my own family to the decisions that 198 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: have been coming down, and they are beside themselves and 199 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: they're just like, what was like, what was the point 200 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: of us voting for Biden? What was the point of 201 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: us being told that we were going to hang on 202 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: to democracy in this next election when four years later, 203 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: this is where we are, We're worse off than we 204 00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: were in twenty twenty. So what does democracy moving forward 205 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: actually look like? 206 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we're not going to let extremists 207 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: have the last word, and so what that pushback looks 208 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 2: like is it first of all, looks like doing exactly 209 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: what you did, calling your friends and family and talking 210 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: about what's going on, and making sure people are getting 211 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: educated and are able to use their voices in the 212 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: way they can. That is through voting, but it is 213 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: also through being members of communities, talking and speaking out. 214 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: We know that people really have a voice in this moment. 215 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: I will also say that our elected representatives have work 216 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: to do. Congress has power to fix the court to 217 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: ensure that justices are operating ethically. It is absolutely absurd 218 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 2: that we have, years after we are dealing with rampant 219 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: election denialism denihalism, by the way, that started in twenty 220 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: sixteen when former President Trump did not win the popular 221 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: vote and sought to dispute facts and evidence. But we 222 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: still see this movement now throughout the country, not associated 223 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: with any particular candidate, and we see this movement throughout 224 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: the country. It's really important we have Supreme Court justices 225 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: that have been seen with insurrection as symbols flying outside 226 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: of our homes and so here are you know, our 227 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: constitution provides the tools. It is time for Congress to 228 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: take a much closer look than it has been taking 229 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: at the Court, and to use its power to demand 230 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: that the Court be subject to binding ethical codes, to 231 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: think about court reforms that are a number of them 232 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: that have been proposed by people like Jamie Raskin, by 233 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: others in the Senate as well, and the House, the 234 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: Incenate as well, And so I think that there are 235 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: these tools. The other thing I would say is that 236 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: there has been a lot of progress made in the 237 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: past few years. We have seen the economy start doing better. 238 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: We've seen people and communities be able to thrive in 239 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: certain ways. But we have also seen, as a result 240 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 2: of I think the rising tide of a more inclusive, 241 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: more vibrant of allocracy for all people, this extreme pushback 242 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: which you see with things like Dobbs and the overturning 243 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: of Rogie Wade. And we'll get to the Court's abortions 244 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: decisions this time and other things. And so it's important 245 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: to know who's behind these This is not a majority 246 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: of Americans. This is a well funded, highly coordinated extremist 247 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: movement that is seeking to be louder and will power 248 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: over everyone. And part of it is making up our 249 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: minds that we're not going to let them have the 250 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: last word. We're going to do the work. We're going 251 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 2: to be able to look this destruction in the eye 252 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: and not blink and speak out. And I know that 253 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: people are very tired in this moment, but think about 254 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: what people that came before us did in times of 255 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: pail and we would not be where we are today 256 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: without the persistence in the fight for a true democracy. 257 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: And so that's what we're really trying to focus our 258 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: work on and using the tools under these new legal 259 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: frameworks in order to push back. 260 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: I want to read on this post by Alexandria Cassier 261 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: Quortez with regard to Congress's role, as you're saying, yes, 262 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: she tweeted this, the Supreme Court has become consumed by 263 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: a corruption crisis beyond its control. Today's ruling represents an 264 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: assault on American democracy. It is up to Congress to 265 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: defend our nation from this authoritarian capture. I intend on 266 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: filing articles of impeachment upon our return. What is your 267 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: response to that? 268 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I think it is important that members of Congress, 269 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: and we've seen her, we've seen Jamie Raskin, we've seen 270 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 2: senators as well, really start reminding the American people of 271 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: the power and the obligation that Congress has with respect 272 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: to court reforms, with respect to transparency, with respect to 273 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: ethics reform, and a variety of other reform measures that 274 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: are out there. Several years ago when the far right 275 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 2: really started, it didn't start, but really several years ago 276 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: when we started seeing the first evidence of really how 277 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 2: far the spar right capture had gone with respect to 278 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: some of our courts. I think the American people didn't 279 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: really know how serious it was, or it was hard 280 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: to understand it. We have now seen YEP with dog 281 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: YEP with decisions last summer, with decisions that are undermining 282 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: the environment. This term, we're having a decision that's going 283 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 2: to make it easier for people to obtain automatic weapons. 284 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: I mean, these are distructive decisions for our people and communities. 285 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: And so I think the American public is there. If 286 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 2: you look at the pulling people in our country right 287 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 2: now are very dissatisfied with the extremism of the US 288 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: Supreme Court and of the movements behind it, and so 289 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: it is important that everyone do, including Congress, the part 290 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: of this time. 291 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: I want to switch gears for a moment to the 292 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: abortion decisions that we just had as well. But the 293 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: thing that I just thought of when you reminded us 294 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: of the easier to obtain automatic weapons and the ability 295 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: to use magazines. I just can't help but think of 296 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: the fact that this Supreme Court has really set up 297 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: the ability for milicious like to embolden militias, for Donald 298 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: Trump to tell folks to stand back and stand by 299 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: and to be immune from anything that they do. And 300 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: that is just like again, the seriousness and the connecting 301 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: of the dots of where we are and what was 302 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: just decided mif of pristone and Mtala, two major decisions 303 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: that came down. Talk to us about where we are 304 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: on that, because the Atala decision in a lot of 305 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: ways was still, according to Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, a 306 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: dawdling continuing dawdling of the Supreme Court in the permission 307 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: structure that is necessary to save people's lives in Idaho. 308 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: So tell us about where we are there. 309 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, we're heavily involved in both of those cases. 310 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 2: In the Intala case, which for your listeners, that's the 311 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: emergency abortion case where there are people that are experiencing 312 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: dire complications in pregnancy where the medical care that is 313 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: required is a pregnancy termination or an abortion. Under our 314 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 2: federal law, when you present to an emergency room in 315 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,239 Speaker 2: this country, you can't be turned away if you're in 316 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 2: that dire condition. The emergency rooms that take federal funds, 317 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: which is the vast majority of them, have to provide 318 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 2: emergency care. Unfortunately, after Dobbs, far right attorney generals working 319 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: with these far right organizations that are responsible in many 320 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: ways their funding structures, are responsible for the courts that 321 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: we have today. They are opposing basic federal law and 322 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 2: saying that state abortion bands can override federal emergency room protections, 323 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: which is not what our constitution says. Again, our Constitution 324 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: does have some tools there, and it's very clear in 325 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 2: the Constitution that federal law takes precedence over state law 326 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: on the two conflict. This got up to the Supreme Court, 327 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: and the Supreme Court essentially has delayed its substantive decision 328 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 2: in the matter. It did issue a ruling that will 329 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: enable women in Idaho who have been deprived of emergency 330 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 2: care for months of emergency here because the Supreme Court 331 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: itself stayed a district court order that was seeking to 332 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 2: protect these women. So again this is a problem of 333 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: the Court's own making. The Court is returning this issue 334 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 2: down to the lower courts, and as a result, in Idaho, 335 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: women right now will be able to get some of 336 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: that emergency care. But the Court declined to rule definitively 337 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 2: as it should have and as our constitution requires. The 338 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 2: Idaho abortion band conflicted with this federal protection. What that 339 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: means is for women in Texas, for women in Florida, 340 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: for women across the country in these states that a 341 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 2: band abortion where far right attorney's generals and special interest 342 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: organizations are seeking to deprive people of an emergency medical care, 343 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: They're still going to be deprived of that care apbsent 344 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 2: additional intervention. The cynical part, because we started talking about Seneca, 345 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: We're not going to give rise to it. But I 346 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 2: am going to point this out. The cynical part of 347 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: this is that you know, we do know this is 348 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 2: an important year in many ways, and we know how 349 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 2: voters are respond to these attacks on our freedoms and 350 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: particularly reproductive freedom, and particularly in these situations where these 351 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: are moms and women who this is really die or 352 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,239 Speaker 2: for their health. And so the cynical part of this 353 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 2: is that the Court, of course has sort of avoided 354 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 2: this issue while all eyes are on it in this gear. 355 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 2: And we already know that there are cases tied up, 356 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: for instance, out of Texas and out of the Fifth 357 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: Circuit where this could come back up to the Court, 358 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 2: maybe in a quieter year, one where there's not a 359 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: major national election, and the Court could could be poised 360 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: to deprive people to go further than Daubs, even further 361 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 2: than our constitution permits, and to deprive people of this care. 362 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: So this is why I say it's really important that 363 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 2: we all be following this or am I going to 364 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 2: give into the cynicism. We know that we're the majority. 365 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: We know the vast majority of people in this country 366 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 2: believe in the promise and potential of democracy, and it 367 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: is time to start demanding that of everybody, whether they're 368 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: in the judiciary, whether they're elected officials, you know, whoever 369 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: they are. But at the same time, we need to 370 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 2: be wise to what's happening here and if a pristone 371 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: case where we're really where we have been, you know, 372 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 2: involved there, the Court rejected said that the case ever 373 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: belonged in the court, that the special interest organization that 374 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: brought the case was not harmed, did not have standing. 375 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 2: But as you see, the chaos is the point of 376 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: this because it's been almost you know, it's been over 377 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: year that there have been you know, emergency had you know, 378 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: emergency every day where people are thinking they're going to 379 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 2: be deprived of or that if a pristone is going 380 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: to be restricted. And in that case also we have 381 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: far right state attorneys general who have sought to intervene 382 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 2: in the case in a lower course. We don't believe 383 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: they should be able to. But again that's another case 384 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: that could come back up maybe when the court thinks 385 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 2: that folks aren't paying as close as attention. So so 386 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 2: I think these are really areas to watch. They are 387 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 2: areas where with all of these cases, including the immunity case. 388 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 2: And I say this often on shows right now, but 389 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: when extremists, you know, tell you what they're going to do, 390 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 2: it's time to believe them, and it's time to believe 391 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: them and get real serious about what we're going to 392 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 2: do in this time, to fight for the democracy that 393 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 2: we know that everyone that the vast majority of people 394 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 2: in this country want and deserve. 395 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: We will leave it there for today. But I know 396 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: that we will be calling on you again in the 397 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: weeks and months to come, because I feel like Americas 398 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: is reaching its final precipice as it pertains to democracy. 399 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: Well, this is what I'll say, maybe to end on this. 400 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: These are unprecedented of very concerning times, and we're not 401 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: going to make light of that. You and I never 402 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 2: make light of that. But we know that this country 403 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: has fought dehumanization, extremism, white supremacy, and it has always 404 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 2: been the people that have ordinary people. You don't have 405 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: to be a lawyer, you don't need to be a politician, 406 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: you don't need to be a radio show host. It 407 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: has been ordinary people in their ordinary lives say that 408 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 2: we are better than this. The future that we deserve 409 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 2: is better than this. The present that we live in 410 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 2: needs to be better than this, and we are better 411 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 2: than this, and we will do the work of democracy. 412 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 2: And that has been the thing, not our institutions. It 413 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: has been the people that have been the shining light 414 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 2: in American society, pushing for the country that we know 415 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 2: that we can be and what we needed this time. 416 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: And so I'll just lead that with your listeners, because 417 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: I think that you know there isn't an institution that's 418 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 2: going to swoop in and save us, but that we 419 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 2: do have, we the people, and I will stand by 420 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 2: the fact that our constitution, as imperfect as the circumstances were, 421 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 2: as imperfect as it can be. As Barbara Jordan, late 422 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 2: Congress from Barbara Jordan used to say, over time, through progress, 423 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 2: she became included. We became included in we the people. 424 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: And it is up to we the people in this moment. 425 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 2: So happy to always join you and thinking for what 426 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 2: you are doing to make sure that people are informed. 427 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 2: And I do think we cannot give into the cynicism, 428 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 2: but it is we do. Got to go to work 429 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 2: because there's a lot of work to do in this 430 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: moment to make sure democracy is not a lofty ideal 431 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: but actually something that can we get to live in 432 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: in this country. 433 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: Amen, Thank you, Sky, appreciate you always making the time 434 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: for woke. 435 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks so much. 436 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Hear friends on wokef 437 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: as always power to the people and to all the people. Power, 438 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.