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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds.

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Speaker 2: And RFK Junior staged a bike accent that involves a

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Speaker 2: dead bear.

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Speaker 3: Cub.

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Speaker 2: What are we doing here? We have such a great

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Speaker 2: show for you today. Pro Publica's Andy Kroll stops by

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Speaker 2: to tell us about the latest shady right wing group

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Speaker 2: coming up the works You've never heard of before, and

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Speaker 2: boy is it's scary. Then we'll talk to former besser

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Speaker 2: Norm Eisen about the impact of presidential debates. But first

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Speaker 2: we have the host of the Enemy's List, the one,

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Speaker 2: the only, the Lincoln Project's own, Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Rick Wilson, Molly.

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Speaker 3: John Fast, as always a pleasure to be with you.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the top line needs to be Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden arranged a prisoner swap that was confirmed minutes before

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Speaker 1: he dropped out of his re election bid.

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Speaker 3: You know, Molly, this to me is the difference between

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Speaker 3: serious people and trivial people, between serious people and unseerious people.

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Speaker 3: Trump is a fundamentally unseerious person. I think we all

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Speaker 3: know that, and Joe Biden is a fundamentally serious person.

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Speaker 3: The idea that you were going to have this prisoner

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Speaker 3: swap that was kept totally secret, completely on the down low.

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Speaker 3: Nobody was leaking it, nobody's bragging about it, nobody was

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Speaker 3: talking about it. It was just happening. They just did

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Speaker 3: it under the radar screen, just took care of business.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me that when you have serious people doing

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Speaker 3: serious things, they can really accomplish important stuff. And a

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Speaker 3: person like Trump would never have pulled this deal off.

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Speaker 3: It would have been too much like what's in it

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Speaker 3: for me? What am I getting personally from it? With

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Speaker 3: lads to like me? I want him to like me.

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Speaker 3: Do you think he thinks I'm cute? You know?

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Speaker 1: I also think he might have gotten the deal done,

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Speaker 1: but god knows what he would have offered and return.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'll give you all of our spies in Russia. Lad,

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Speaker 3: it's only fair.

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Speaker 4: You were more and more likely you could take you kraying, right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Well there would always be that, wouldn't it. You know?

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Speaker 3: But look, I mean, Molly, I really believe this was

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Speaker 3: something that it shows you that Joe Biden is going

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Speaker 3: to go down. He may be a one term president,

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Speaker 3: He will be remembered as a great one for a

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Speaker 3: lot of reasons. This aspect of Joe Biden right now,

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Speaker 3: where he gives a damn about his people, he gives

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Speaker 3: a damn about the American people. He gives damn about

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Speaker 3: the people who were counting on him to spring them

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Speaker 3: from a Russian captivity. I keep coming back this, this

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Speaker 3: is what a president should do. And I also think

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Speaker 3: that it showed some good things about Vice President Harris,

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Speaker 3: not just political for the campaign's sake, but as a leader.

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Speaker 3: She was also involved in this. She was brought into

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Speaker 3: it during the NATO security conference, met with Navalney's widow

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Speaker 3: was very moved by it, became fully engaged in the process.

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Speaker 3: If anyone here thinks this was not a universally good operation,

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Speaker 3: I have news for him. They are mistaken. Delighted by

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Speaker 3: the way that Joe Biden, Kamala Harris got to share

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Speaker 3: with those families and with America a moment of joy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was really incredibly beautiful and just moving. And his speech,

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Speaker 1: Biden's speech, You know, poor Biden has had so many

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Speaker 1: you know, for a person with a stutter to have

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Speaker 1: every fucking thing he says.

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Speaker 4: You know, God, that's gonna sell it's got us suck.

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Speaker 1: But that was a really good speech, and it showed

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Speaker 1: that he really is in foll command of what he's doing,

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Speaker 1: and I really was moved by it. I also was like,

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Speaker 1: very happy that you and I have never said that

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Speaker 1: Biden should drop out. Now, even though I'm thrilled with

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Speaker 1: how this has it's been better than I think any

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Speaker 1: of us could ever have dreams. And she is become

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Speaker 1: the incredible orator that I had been saying she was

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Speaker 1: for the last two years. But I still am grateful

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Speaker 1: for his service, and I'm grateful that he was allowed to.

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Speaker 4: Come to that decision on his own, and I.

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Speaker 1: Am grateful that there were three weeks where he was

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Speaker 1: able to really process it and that he didn't drop

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Speaker 1: out right after that debate.

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Speaker 3: I think the urgency of staying in command of this

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Speaker 3: negotiation is the secret piece of the history. Now, this

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Speaker 3: explains a lot. It wasn't just Joe Biden being a

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Speaker 3: stubborn old coop and saying I'm not laving God dammit.

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Speaker 3: It was Joe Biden with an agenda item that required

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Speaker 3: presidential leadership at a high level, that required attention and

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Speaker 3: focus at a level that only the president was credible

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Speaker 3: on and the fact that he did this. I cannot

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Speaker 3: express it more fully how impressed I was with how

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Speaker 3: solid the negotiations looks like they were, how carefully it

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Speaker 3: was crafted, how smart the multilateral diplomacy with multiple foreign

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Speaker 3: governments that was required to pull this off. This is

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Speaker 3: not trivial. None of this was easy. And there's no

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Speaker 3: world where Donald Trump gets this steal done. None, none, whatsoever?

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Speaker 1: No none. I think there's no world where Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: gets his steal done. And I also think this is NATO.

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Speaker 1: This is the power of NATO and two countries working

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Speaker 1: together to solve problems and prevent wars. This is the goal, right,

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Speaker 1: is to prevent wars, strengthen relationships, have these countries talk

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Speaker 1: to each other so things, I mean remember, like so

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Speaker 1: that things like World War one never happen.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: The ideas behind NATO that Trump is very cavalier about

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Speaker 3: and very dismissive of.

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Speaker 1: And Trump's people, every one of Trump's followers, believe in

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Speaker 1: this sort of anti right.

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Speaker 3: We can do it about ourselves. Merca, Merca, fuck you.

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Speaker 4: And you know.

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell gave an interview today to punch Bowl News

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Speaker 1: and he was talking about just how dangerous. And again

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Speaker 1: I am fan of Mitch McConnell, Nora, are you no,

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Speaker 1: I think that's fairy.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a that would be an accurate statement.

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Speaker 1: As an understatement maybe, but he was talking about how

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Speaker 1: dangerous the ethos of this project twenty twenty five trumpy

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Speaker 1: view of foreign policy.

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Speaker 3: Is the ideas behind twenty twenty five. They were not

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Speaker 3: trivial ideas. They were incredibly dangerous ideas. And folks process

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Speaker 3: this When you have a person like Mitch McConnell saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: not so much on this, not a great plan, you

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Speaker 3: should really pay attention. There is like a weird vestigial

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Speaker 3: part of Mitch McConnell that I heard out in the

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Speaker 3: atmosphere this week, because as Trump has continued to decompensate

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Speaker 3: and get crazier and crazier, McConnell is telling his candidates, now,

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Speaker 3: if you have to back away from him, back away

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Speaker 3: from him, if you have to run away from and

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Speaker 3: run away from him. Now. I know that that is

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Speaker 3: pissed off Trump, and it is off the Trump.

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Speaker 1: Team, and he's going to get a lot of death

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Speaker 1: threats from that because that they don't like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, they're out. And I was saying, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, we hear one thing about you not being

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Speaker 3: loyal to the president, and you're done. It's over. And

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Speaker 3: I believe them, you know what, they will They will

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Speaker 3: go out. They would rather lose than have Trump feel

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Speaker 3: like his little, tiny, delicate feelings are hurt for even

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Speaker 3: one second.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, I mean, I just want for

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Speaker 1: two seconds, and you and I both agree.

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Speaker 4: By the way, we are going on tour, Yes.

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Speaker 3: Folks, we're going We're going on tour.

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Speaker 1: On tour, and we are going to many many places.

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Speaker 3: We are going to so many damn places. It's absurd

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Speaker 3: and it's going to be fucking fun. So many activities. Yeah, folks,

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Speaker 3: We're going to be going all over the country. I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: But so just back to actual normal American life for

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Speaker 1: a second. Rass Mutant or as I call them, brass

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Speaker 1: Smutan kind of poll that ended up in my group

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Speaker 1: chat today that I would like to read to you

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Speaker 1: because Rusmuton has blocked me on Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Let's not put you find a point on it. They're

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Speaker 3: rather trumpy.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they're rather trumpy.

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Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four General election Harris forty seven, Trump forty two,

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Speaker 1: and Kennedy six.

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Speaker 4: That's three thousand registered voters.

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Speaker 3: You know, Kennedy is dropping off the radar one day

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Speaker 3: at a time. Okay, I mean remember this was a

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Speaker 3: guy who was at twenty percent for a while. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and now he's at rounding error.

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Speaker 4: Well the picture of him eating that's not a.

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Speaker 3: Dog, right, It wasn't a dog. It was actually I mean,

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Speaker 3: it was actually a goat, which makes it much better.

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Speaker 4: By the way, if you.

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Speaker 1: Are part of a discourse that involves he was eating

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a dog.

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Speaker 5: You lose.

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Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, It's like today's discourse with did Trump take

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Speaker 3: a ten million dollar bride from the Egyptians? If you're

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Speaker 3: debating whether or not you took a ten million dollar

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Speaker 3: bride from the Egyptians, you're already losing the discussion.

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Speaker 4: But can we have.

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Speaker 1: Two seconds on the Egyptian's incredible bipartisanship.

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Speaker 4: Way to go.

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Speaker 1: Egyptians they bribe both the left.

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Speaker 3: And the right and the right. Yep, God bless them.

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Speaker 3: They're not shy about it.

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Speaker 1: Why are the Egyptians trying to bribe all of our politicians.

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Speaker 3: Because they're bribeable.

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Speaker 4: That is not a good answer.

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Speaker 3: I'm aware that is not an answer that you wanted

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Speaker 3: to hear, but that is the answer.

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Speaker 1: Why Egypt, Like there are so many countries that it

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Speaker 1: would seem.

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Speaker 4: Like need more from America than Egypt.

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Speaker 3: Do you think Egypt is the only one?

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Speaker 4: Right? That's a good point.

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Speaker 3: Corruption is an equal opportunity to disease, right. And you know,

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Speaker 3: as Robert Menindez just abundantly show. Yeah, and God bless

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Speaker 3: many of the Democrats with a certain high level exception

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Speaker 3: who basically came out and said, this guy's got a

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Speaker 3: fucking go No, we can't have this. If you're debating

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Speaker 3: with people like did you take a ten million dollar bribe?

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Speaker 3: Did you eat a dog? A sign you are not

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Speaker 3: I'm the up end of you're not on the upside

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Speaker 3: of the political argument.

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Speaker 4: It's really bad.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, like things have really degraded in

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Speaker 1: this selection cycle. Let's talk about where Trump is right now.

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Speaker 1: He still has Chris la Savida, who is supposedly really

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Speaker 1: good ran swift Boat Veterans, ruined John Kerry's career, so as.

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Speaker 4: A longtime lib I'm not a fan.

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Speaker 1: And you have Susie Wiles, who is like kind of

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Speaker 1: incredible Florida political operative.

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Speaker 3: She's currently spending a lot of her time waging a

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Speaker 3: war with Kelly and Conway.

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Speaker 1: Explain, and you are in Florida as opposed to me,

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Speaker 1: who is not in Florida.

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Speaker 3: Thank god, I am the Florida man. All the rumors

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Speaker 3: that you're hearing about unhappiness with Jade Vance have been

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Speaker 3: really pissing Trump off, Okay, like I mean a lot, okay,

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Speaker 3: pissing him off. And Susie Wiles has identified that Kelly

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Speaker 3: and Conway is one of the sources of those rumors.

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Speaker 4: Oh, and that's why that story leaked.

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Speaker 3: That's why that story leaked. And if Susie wants to

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Speaker 3: prove me wrong, have at it. Come to Daddy. I

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Speaker 3: know the style, and I know who she's talking to,

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Speaker 3: and I know the way the story got covered was

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Speaker 3: as Susie Wilde special, Chris Losovita is trying to save

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Speaker 3: himself because Trump's mad at him. But Chris Lolsovita is

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Speaker 3: now out bragging I'm the one who killed Project twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five.

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Speaker 4: But it's still going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, our sources said that was a lie. It's still going.

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Speaker 3: Chris is swinging at defenses. He's mad because We're running

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Speaker 3: an ad right now down in mar A Lago and

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Speaker 3: at Bedminster saying to Trump, Wow, you really think that

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Speaker 3: Chris Losovita and Susie Wilds are doing a good job

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Speaker 3: for you. They helped you pick Jad Evans. He's so

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Speaker 3: embarrassing Donald. They keep making mistakes Donald. That's why, of

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Speaker 3: course Trump is tweeting that the perverts at the failed

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Speaker 3: Lincoln Project are taking me. Yes, I'm you and.

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Speaker 1: George Conway have been doing these audience of one ads

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Speaker 1: right yep, in order to completely freak out Trump and

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Speaker 1: make him lose his mind and lose and it works.

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Speaker 1: I was peeking out about something and I'm talking to

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Speaker 1: George Conway, and George Conway's like, you know, he's tweeting

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Speaker 1: about me and saying terrible things, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: how does this not freak you out? I'm like, when

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Speaker 1: one person hates me, I believe my life is over.

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Speaker 3: I know. But for me and for George, we have

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Speaker 3: a certain like political combat sensibility about this guy. I

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Speaker 3: always tell people like the Lincoln Project, Wes, we do

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Speaker 3: these viral ads, we do these anti Trump ads, and they're

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Speaker 3: all fine and good, right, They're exciting people like them

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Speaker 3: gets Trump crazy. But every second he's not attacking Kamala Harris,

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Speaker 3: he's losing. Every second he's paying attention to me or

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Speaker 3: George or anybody else, he's losing that sense of being

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Speaker 3: out of control, not having the campaign that he wants.

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Speaker 3: We're all building up this matrix of ideas around him

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Speaker 3: in his brain that he can't trust anybody, that he's

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Speaker 3: got to go out and do his own thing, play

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Speaker 3: it his way. For instance, this week at the National

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Speaker 3: Association of Black Journalists, he thought, I'm going to go out,

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Speaker 3: I'll show those colored people, I'll tell how it's going

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Speaker 3: to be. And sure enough, he completely fucked it up.

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Speaker 3: And he fucked it up in part because all of

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Speaker 3: us were in his brain all week, making him not

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Speaker 3: trust the professionals around him, and so now he's panicked.

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Speaker 4: There was a scoop from Axios.

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Speaker 1: Basically, Trump said that the reason he was thirty five

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Speaker 1: minutes late was because the equipment wasn't working on stage, which,

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Speaker 1: of course, because I'm a complete moron and don't assume

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Speaker 1: that everybody is lying, I have believed. But then just

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Speaker 1: now a scoop from Axios yesterday Trump didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be fact Check live at the NABJ refusing to go

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Speaker 1: on stage, a stalemate so prolonged NABJ leaders were prepping

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Speaker 1: a statement to say why.

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Speaker 4: Trump wouldn't show yep.

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Speaker 1: As ken Lemon was preparing it, Trump walked on stage.

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Speaker 3: The idea that it was a technical problem. The minute

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Speaker 3: it came out of Trump's mouth as an answer, Paul

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Speaker 3: just of Trump, I was like, that is a lie,

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Speaker 3: and we all knew it was a lie.

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Speaker 4: I was sure it was true.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, No. Trump can't stop himself, Molly. Yeah, his

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Speaker 3: impulse control is zero. He cannot control himself to take

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Speaker 3: the opposite of anything the guy ever says. And this

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Speaker 3: was exactly that it was a complete lie. And the

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Speaker 3: idea that it was technical problems. You know, they they

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Speaker 3: already started, like you could see the look on their

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Speaker 3: face when he said it, because they were like, the

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Speaker 3: fuck is this right?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Nothing about Trump should ever be taken seriously. It's just

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Speaker 3: the way it is. The guy is always going to

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Speaker 3: lie because he can't do anything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is why autocrats hate journalists so much. Just

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Speaker 1: because this was a lie. This journalist from Axios just

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Speaker 1: went and talked to the people who run the organization,

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Speaker 1: and they were able to explain that that wasn't true.

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Speaker 1: And I think that you really do see why there's

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Speaker 1: so much hostility and animus towards journalists.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, as Donald Trump has consistently in his entire

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Speaker 3: time in public life, not only while when he ran

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Speaker 3: for office, but well before, nothing for Trump is real

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Speaker 3: unless he makes it so in his head. Nothing for

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Speaker 3: Trump is legitimate unless he makes it up and turns

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Speaker 3: it into a story about him. And this was a

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Speaker 3: really strong case to show that. As much as people

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Speaker 3: have always thought a lot of reporters, particularly oh, Trump

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Speaker 3: is such a brilliant operator. He's so good on his feet.

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Speaker 3: He manipulates everybody. Honestly, that performance was sad. He was

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Speaker 3: a broken toy on that stage. He had five or

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Speaker 3: six of his little shticky answers he wanted to use,

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Speaker 3: and none of them were working. Harris Faulkner may be

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Speaker 3: an ally of Trump, but he was on that stage

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Speaker 3: embarrassing himself almost from the first moment he walked out.

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Speaker 3: You could see it in his body language, this sort

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Speaker 3: of like hands between the knees bent over. He was

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Speaker 3: not confident, he was not happy, he was not ready

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Speaker 3: to go in there and answer questions. None of it.

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Speaker 3: The illusion of Trump's keeps getting shattered more and more

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Speaker 3: every day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely true.

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Speaker 3: Rick Wilson, Molly John Fast, a pleasure as always, and

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Speaker 3: I will see you on the road.

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Speaker 2: Yes, did you know Bally, John Fast and Rick Wilson

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Speaker 2: are heading out on tour together to bring you a

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Speaker 2: knight of laughs, to bring some lightness to our dark

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Speaker 2: political landscape. Join us on August twenty sixth in San

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Speaker 2: Francisco at the Swedish American Hall, or in la on

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Speaker 2: August twenty seventh at the Region Theater. Then we'll hit

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Speaker 2: the Midwest at the Bavariam in Milwaukee on the twenty

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Speaker 2: first of September, and the twenty second we'll be in

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Speaker 2: Chicago at City Winery. Then we'll be on the East

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Speaker 2: coast September thirtieth, in Boston at the Armory the first

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Speaker 2: of October and Philly at City Winery, and then DC

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Speaker 2: on the second at the Miracle Theater, with a few

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Speaker 2: more dates to come. If you need to laugh as

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Speaker 2: we get through this election and hopefully never hear from

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Speaker 2: this guy who lives in a golf club again, we

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Speaker 2: got you covered. Join us along with some surprise guests

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Speaker 2: to help you laugh instead of cry your way through

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Speaker 2: this selection season and get the inside analysis of what's

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Speaker 2: really going on right now. Buy your tickets now by

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Speaker 2: heading to Politics as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics as

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Speaker 2: Unusual dot bio. Andy Kroll is a reporter at Pro

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Speaker 2: public O.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Andy Kroll. I'm Mollie John Fust

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Speaker 1: and I run a kennel.

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Speaker 6: Happy to be guests here at your beautiful kettle.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: We occasionally interviewed journalists when not running the kennel. Andy,

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Speaker 1: You've done such incredible reporting Leonard Leo all of the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court craziness. But now you have found yet another

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Speaker 1: Republican secret society discuss.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we just can't get enough of the religious right

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Speaker 6: secret donor Shenanigans. Can we glutton for whatever that is?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 6: Our latest story of Pro PUBLICA it's a joint effort

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Speaker 6: with myself and Nick Sergey at this website documented. It's

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Speaker 6: about a group called called Zicklag. Zicklag is basically trying

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Speaker 6: to do for evangelical conservative Christians what the Koch Brothers

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Speaker 6: did for, you know, billionaire industrialists who just wanted to

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Speaker 6: get rid of government regulation and defeat Obama. This group Zicklag,

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Speaker 6: which your listeners probably haven't heard of, because we're kind

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Speaker 6: of the first big story about it. They have brought

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Speaker 6: together all these ultra wealthy Christian families, some of whom

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Speaker 6: folks have probably heard of, the U Line family out

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Speaker 6: of Wisconsin, the hobby Lobby family, and the folks actually

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Speaker 6: who are the Jockey apparel company. So for all you

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Speaker 6: jockey underwear buyers out there, tune in, I guess. So

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Speaker 6: we've written about this group that is planning to spend

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Speaker 6: more than twelve million dollars at least this year trying

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Speaker 6: to help the Republican sile the Ledger, trying to help

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Speaker 6: the Trump campaign, and they're doing it with this very

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Speaker 6: sort of Christian right, Christian nationalist point of view, where

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Speaker 6: basically they think they want to elect Republicans because this

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Speaker 6: is how you quote take dominion over the seven Mountains

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Speaker 6: of Influence, which is a Christian sort of ideology. Basically

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Speaker 6: basically how you take dominion over all the big industries

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Speaker 6: that matter at American life. So it's very very modest stuff,

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Speaker 6: as you can tell, but it's an interesting project that

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Speaker 6: they're doing.

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Speaker 1: So first stop and explain to us about and most

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Speaker 1: seners of this podcast, if you listen to every episode

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Speaker 1: like my dad does, you will know what seventh dominion

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Speaker 1: is the call to have in all of this craziness.

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Speaker 4: But give us the sort of TLDR on that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Hi, Molly's dad.

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Speaker 6: So the Seven Mountain Mandate is this way of thinking

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Speaker 6: for the Christian right about how do you return the

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Speaker 6: country to what they believe is the sort of true

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Speaker 6: Christian origin or Christian identity of the United States of America.

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Speaker 6: I remember, Christian nationalism at its core is a belief

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Speaker 6: that everything should flow downhill from biblical teachings and quote

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Speaker 6: unquote biblical truth that if the US becomes a less

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Speaker 6: Christian country, it ceases to be a country that the laws,

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Speaker 6: the culture, education, and everything about our everyday lives should

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Speaker 6: flow from a Christian worldview, that is Christian nationalism. Then

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Speaker 6: this Seven Mountain Mandate is this way of trying to

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Speaker 6: take that kind of amorphous ideology and put it into action.

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Speaker 6: And so the Seven Mountains are these basically stand ins

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Speaker 6: for the things that matter in American culture. So we're

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Speaker 6: talking about arts and media, education, family, religion, government, business,

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Speaker 6: all of the things that shape what American society actually is.

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Speaker 6: They want to in this seven Mountain mandate, get Christians

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Speaker 6: to the top of the mountain, hence the mountain metaphor,

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Speaker 6: and have Christian ideas, Christian teachings. Biblical truth. Again, this

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Speaker 6: phrase that keeps coming up in our reporting, dictate what

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Speaker 6: education should be and all that.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain to us what biblical truth means. That's

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Speaker 1: like the truth in the Bible, right and not like

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Speaker 1: the real truth or like no dinosaurs, just.

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Speaker 4: Moses or what.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a little hard to do because you have

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Speaker 6: to kind of habit that world view, but basically it is,

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Speaker 6: you know, marriage is between a man and a woman,

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Speaker 6: and the Ten Commandments is a not just a sort

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Speaker 6: of historical artifact in a religious text, but a way

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Speaker 6: to very discreetly shape your life. And yes, you start

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Speaker 6: to get into things of changing how education is taught.

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Speaker 6: You know, talking about evolution versus intelligent design, or you know,

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Speaker 6: the sort of biblical story of creation. Imagine all of

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Speaker 6: the the stories, all of the lessons of the Bible,

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Speaker 6: but applied pretty explicitly to whatever they applied to in

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Speaker 6: real life. So, for instance, this group Ziglag we got

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Speaker 6: this document that talks about their thirty year vision and

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Speaker 6: it breaks out all the things they want to do

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Speaker 6: for the different mountains. And so, for instance, in arts

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Speaker 6: and entertainment they think that eighty percent of movies coming

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Speaker 6: out of Hollywood should be g or PG rated, or

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Speaker 6: in education, homeschooling and parochial schools should be the order

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Speaker 6: of the day. You can imagine how this biblical truth

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Speaker 6: in this seven Mountain ideology lays out in all these

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Speaker 6: different ways.

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Speaker 3: Those are just a few tastes of it.

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping you could explain the connection between Catholicism in

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Speaker 1: this group and the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 6: There are interesting connections. There are a few beats here.

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Speaker 6: So this group Zicklag that we're writing about night, encourage

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Speaker 6: all the followers out there to check out our story

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Speaker 6: at Republica. They are Evangelical Christians, but their interests aligned

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Speaker 6: with the conservative Catholics like Leonard Leo and his milieu

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Speaker 6: in a bunch of different ways. So for instance, obviously

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Speaker 6: reproductive rights, the lawyers that helped bring the case that

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Speaker 6: took down Row were on the one hand, products of

440
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 6: the Federal Society pipeline that Leonard Leo helped build. But also,

441
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 6: according to the reporting that we've done, the Zicklag provided

442
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 6: the Christian group now provided funding, provided sort of strategy,

443
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 6: gave the lawyers for groups like Lines Defending Freedom and

444
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 6: First Liberty, these Christian legal advocacy groups that have been

445
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 6: so influential at the Supreme Court. Likely they gave them

446
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 6: a place to come together and raise money and plot

447
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 6: their strategy and so on. So there is an overlap here.

448
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 6: They're not the same obviously, but they march in lockstep

449
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 6: on issues like reproductive rights, ending reproductive rights at the

450
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 6: Court on education.

451
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 3: You know. Another big one was the case.

452
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 6: Out of Colorado that struck down non discrimination laws for

453
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 6: LGBTQ people. That also had its roots in both the

454
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 6: sort of conservative Catholic legal world and the Ziclag even

455
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 6: yo Christian world as well.

456
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 3: They are allies on the.

457
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 6: Big policy issues that are changing America as we speak

458
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 6: and affecting millions of people's lives. But they are not

459
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 6: one and the same. They're kind of part of the

460
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 6: same larger movement.

461
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 3: If you will, can.

462
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: You explained to us sort of what this group has planned?

463
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 4: And also again.

464
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: You know this is like my stupid naivete but how

465
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: do all these people sell them. They're so Christian, they're

466
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: so Catholic, and they're supporting a guy who's a thrice

467
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: married adulterer who paid off an adult film star. I mean,

468
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 1: nobody ever pauses and is like, perhaps this isn't what

469
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: Jesus wants from us.

470
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 6: Well, having just spent a week at the Republican Convention,

471
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 6: I could tell you chapter and verse about that, just

472
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 6: real quick, what SIG has planned, and then we'll come

473
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 6: back to that. But so I mentioned the big thirty

474
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 6: year plan that this Christian group has, but they also

475
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 6: believe that none of their long term objectives like making

476
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 6: more movies g rated or making sure that all the

477
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 6: executives in Hollywood have a biblical focus, these are actual

478
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 6: things in their thirty year vision. None of that they say,

479
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 6: can be accomplished if they don't win in twenty twenty four.

480
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 6: For them, the quote unquote government mountain is sort of

481
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 6: one that looms over all the others in the selection year.

482
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 6: And this group has again this thirteen million dollar though

483
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 6: could possibly grow budget very specifically targeting battleground states and counties,

484
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 6: try to turn out conservative voters, try to knock more

485
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 6: than a million people off the voter roles, and I'm

486
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 6: pretty confident in saying that they're probably not trying to

487
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 6: knock their own Republican conservative.

488
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 3: Voters off the roles.

489
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 6: The catch here, too, is that this group is a

490
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 6: five HO one C three tax exempt charity. Know that

491
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 6: sounds wonky, which is wild.

492
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that may sound wonky.

493
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 6: Legally to listeners, but this is like what the United

494
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 6: Way is in the Boys and Girls Club. These groups

495
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 6: cannot get involved in politics. They're absolutely prohibited, that's the

496
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 6: language or the irs from getting involved in politics. And yes,

497
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 6: this group is doing that. All the tax experts we

498
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 6: interviewed in our story, tax experts are they exist to

499
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 6: be very circumspects in their conclusions, and for this story,

500
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 6: they were not circumspect. They were very clear that, I,

501
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 6: it's not testing the law, it is violating this prohibition.

502
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 6: So I thought that that was an important part of

503
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 6: our story. Now, how do these people justify supporting Trump

504
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 6: means to an end is obviously a big part of it.

505
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 6: What's really interesting about zik LAG is that the sort

506
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 6: of main spiritual advisor, or one of the main advisors

507
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 6: in this group is a guy named Lance Wallnow, if

508
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 6: you haven't heard of him. You should definitely read up

509
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 6: on him with a strong cup of coffee. And he

510
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 6: is the guy in twenty fifteen who's one of the

511
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 6: first evangelical Christians to endorse Donald Trump when no one

512
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 6: else would, when the Christian right was like, ah, all

513
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 6: the things you just said by you the writ's Mary,

514
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 6: you know, adulterer, porn star, like New York billionaire businessman,

515
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 6: blah blah blah, Like how could we support this guy?

516
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: Sky?

517
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 6: Lance wallnow comes up with this idea that Trump is

518
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 6: a quote unquote modern day Cyrus. If you don't know

519
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 6: the Cyrus reference, you know Cyrus, I don't know.

520
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 4: What Cyrus is. Please explain. Actually, I really.

521
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: Don't want you to explain, but I guess for the

522
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: sake of those who have to.

523
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 3: Gone no, no, no, it's okay.

524
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 6: I mean, basically, the short answer is that flawed leader

525
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 6: who we may not agree with, but who will deliver

526
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 6: us to the Promised Land. That is what Cyrus. I

527
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 6: mean I'm really summarizing here. Lance Wallow pioneers this idea

528
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 6: modern day Cyrus, and it catches fire on the Christian

529
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 6: right and it remains a talking point, a touchstone for

530
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 6: religious voters in the Republican Party to this day.

531
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 3: I heard it in Milwaukee.

532
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 6: I swear people are talking about him as Cyrus, though

533
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 6: now they're talking about him as a sort of living martyr.

534
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 6: Of course, because you know, the evil Left or the

535
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 6: evil whatever tried to assassinate him and he survived thanks

536
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 6: to the hand of God. So that belief in him

537
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 6: on the Christian right has just deepened with the assassination attempt.

538
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 6: But this guy in Ziglag was one of the earliest

539
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 6: people to give that kind of permission structure, to give

540
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 6: that language to Christian voters to support Trump.

541
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, rip Mike Pence, the evangelical who did it too.

542
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 4: Well. This money is it's not that much.

543
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's more money than I have, but it's

544
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: not that much money in the light of like Elon

545
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: Mush giving him forty billion dollars a week or whatever.

546
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: Elon Mush always does what he says he's going to,

547
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: so obviously Trump will.

548
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: Get that money.

549
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: But is the play here to sort of influence certain

550
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: to use that money smartly or what's the play here,

551
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: because that's like Trump's lawyers bills for an app for

552
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: a weekend.

553
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 6: You know, yeah, totally right, in the context of I

554
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 6: mean the big money donors on both sides of the aisle.

555
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 6: Thirteen million dollars is not a whole lot of money,

556
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 6: but you got to look at how it's being spent.

557
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 6: So it's being spent in a very very micro targeted way.

558
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 6: And we're talking about not just focusing on battleground states,

559
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 6: but battleground county is so Fulton County in the Atlanta area,

560
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 6: Mayer Copa, the Phoenix area, in and around Philadelphia. These

561
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 6: are like Clark County, you know, Vegas. These are places

562
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 6: where again you know, Joe Biden won these counties and

563
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 6: that's the states and thus the presidency in twenty twenty

564
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 6: by tens of thousands of votes. So we're not talking

565
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 6: about a huge swing one way or the other. A

566
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 6: sizeable amount of money, a few million dollars spent in

567
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 6: the right way can actually move the needle. And the

568
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 6: other part of it is they're spending this money not

569
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 6: on billboards or TV ads or YouTube video preview ads

570
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 6: where you know you can click past it. They're spending

571
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 6: this money on mobilizing voters where they know are conservative,

572
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 6: but you don't maybe vote all that often. These quote

573
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 6: unquote low propensity voters, and they're spending in more critically, and.

574
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: That's Trump's secret sauce those voters.

575
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 6: Right exactly, getting these people to come out when Blake

576
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 6: Masters or whoever else down the ballot can't motivate them.

577
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 6: But the other key element here is they're spending some

578
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 6: of this money on laying around with and not turning

579
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 6: out voters, but knocking people off the roles. All the

580
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 6: experts I talked to, strategists, et cetera, the lawyers, a

581
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 6: little bit of money can go a very long way

582
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 6: in challenging whether people can vote, their registrations, their ability

583
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 6: to just be on the roles.

584
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 4: It's cheating. I mean, let's say the truth here. It's cheating.

585
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 6: You're not competing on the playing field of ideas or candidates.

586
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 6: You're competing by trying to change the denominator, by trying

587
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 6: to remove people, challenge their ability to vote. I mean,

588
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 6: this takes you back to the Jim Crow era. But again,

589
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 6: it doesn't take a lot of money to have a

590
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 6: big enough impact that you can start changing how elections

591
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 6: turn out. When you remove tens of thousands or hundreds

592
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 6: of thousands of people from.

593
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: The rules, Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, so fuckings Gary,

594
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: So who runs this group and why.

595
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 6: The group interestingly comes out of Silk Valley. Oh wow, Yeah,

596
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 6: it's a couple of sort of like nineties era Silicon

597
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 6: Valley investors and VC types who also happened to be

598
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 6: pretty you know, devout Christian right people, you know, conservative

599
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 6: Christians in their sort of personal religious beliefs, who have

600
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 6: just felt that evangelical Christians, in their view, weren't active

601
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 6: enough in politics and needed to be. And then eventually

602
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 6: this Ziklag group gets formed because one of these investors,

603
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 6: a guy named Ken Eldred, again a Silicon Valley type,

604
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 6: he thinks that wealthy Christians aren't pooling their money enough

605
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 6: in the way that Democrats are, but even the way

606
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 6: that the people the Supreme Court apparently not, because he's

607
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 6: doing this around twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen getting this group

608
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 6: off the ground. And there's a recording that we got

609
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 6: our hands on for the story of Charlie Kirk, someone

610
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 6: who imagine listeners of this podcast will definitely know Turning

611
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 6: Point USA. He is at one of these Ziglag events

612
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 6: last year, I believe, and he's basically saying to these

613
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 6: wealthy Christians in the room. You need to be like

614
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 6: George Sorols, or you need to be like luring pow jobs.

615
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 6: You need to be like wealthy liberals who are giving

616
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 6: billions and billions of dollars. This is the place, sicklag,

617
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 6: this is the place where you're going to do it.

618
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 6: And so they want to be the vehicle for those

619
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 6: billions and evangelical Christian dollars going into politics. But again

620
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 6: also this whole seven Mountain mandate thing.

621
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 4: Wild wild stuff. Can you just give me a minute.

622
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: Unlike the Supreme Court and how they feel about all

623
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: the reporting about Clarence Thomas and all the free trips,

624
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.

625
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 6: I think they see this court as the possibly the

626
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 6: greatest Supreme Court in their lifetime. This is a court

627
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 6: that has ruled in favor of conservative Christian plaintiffs.

628
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 3: Over and over and over again.

629
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,959
Speaker 6: It has obviously struck down Row and has ruled in

630
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 6: favor of the sports co football coach I think he was,

631
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 6: who wanted to prey on the high school field. Ruled

632
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 6: in favor of the cake owner and then the website

633
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 6: designer Colorado who basically want to have the ability to say, oh,

634
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 6: you're a trans person. I'm not going to allow you

635
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 6: to patronize my business. I won't make that cake for you,

636
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 6: I won't make that website for you. I think they

637
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 6: see this court as a culmination of decades of work

638
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 6: on their part, of activism, of kind of intellectual churn,

639
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 6: getting the right people in the right place to elevate

640
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 6: them to the court. In fact, ZIKLAG, in its own

641
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 6: sort of internal documents, says that it played an instrumental

642
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,719
Speaker 6: role getting Amy Coney Barrett on the bench, helping elevate her,

643
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 6: nominate her, get her through the confirmation, then get her

644
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 6: on the court, and so that move, coming right at

645
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 6: the end of Trump's presidency, I think was really a

646
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 6: crowding moment for them. If they see the reporting that

647
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 6: we've done about Justices Thomas and Alito in the late Antoniscalie,

648
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 6: I mean, from what I've seen, what I've heard, you know,

649
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 6: they see this reporting as trying to delegitimize the court

650
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 6: in some way, or a kind of ad hominem attack

651
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 6: on the justices because we somehow disagree with their rulings.

652
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 6: None of that, of course, is even remotely true. The

653
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 6: reporting speaks for itself. Justice Thomas, these trips you know,

654
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 6: totally like I think this latest Senate report, the value

655
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 6: of the trips here totals millions of dollars that he's

656
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 6: received over the years from the businessman Harlan Crow and others.

657
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 6: So they've kind of reached for straws to try to

658
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 6: undermine the reporting. But I honestly don't think any of

659
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 6: that has really sunk in with the larger public. Larger

660
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 6: public sees it for what it is, a justice who's

661
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 6: supposed to be a disclosing and not indulging in these

662
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 6: kind of free goodies instead doing the opposite over a

663
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 6: period of decades.

664
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank.

665
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 3: You, thank you, pleasure as always. Thanks.

666
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how

667
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we,

668
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: which is why we teamed with iHeart to make a

669
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: limited series with the experts on what a disaster Project

670
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five would be for America's future right now.

671
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: The first four episodes, with the final episode coming next week,

672
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: are available by looking up Molly John Fast Project twenty

673
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: twenty five on YouTube. If you are thinking you are

674
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: more of a podcast person and not a YouTuber. You

675
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: can hit play when you get to the video, put

676
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: the phone on lockscreen and it will play back. New

677
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: episodes are dropping in the next week as well. We

678
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: need to educate America on what Trump's second term would

679
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: do to this country. Please watch and help us spread

680
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: the word.

681
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: Normaisen As a former investador to the Czech Republican for

682
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: Deputy Council to President Barack Obama.

683
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 4: Welcome Too Fast Politics normalizen.

684
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 5: Molly jog Path. Thanks for having me.

685
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 4: Well, very excited to have you. It's such a weird new.

686
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 1: World that we are in right now, but it does

687
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: feel like a completely different Democratic Party in three days,

688
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: for four.

689
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 5: Days or whatever. As you know, my entree from being

690
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 5: a run of the mill law firm partner and campaign

691
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 5: lawyer every presidential cycle to being invited onto Molly's podcast.

692
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 5: My pivot point in my life was when my law

693
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 5: school classmate and friend, Barack Obama called me and said, Hey,

694
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 5: I'm going to run for president. Are you in?

695
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 4: What'd you say?

696
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 5: What I actually said to him at some point, I

697
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 5: don't know if it was the first conversation. I was like,

698
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 5: you know, this is kind of a suicide mission because

699
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 5: Hillary has sort of locked everything up, but of course

700
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 5: I'm in.

701
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

702
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 5: Those conversations blur together a little bit in the early days,

703
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 5: so I was all in. I aggravated my Hillary friends.

704
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 5: But the reason I was in. Look, I've known the

705
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 5: guy since nineteen eighty eight, since our first year at

706
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 5: Harvard Law School, and I've loved him since then. I

707
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 5: always liked to joke with Baraka. You wanted to hate

708
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 5: the guy because he was so smart, so good looking,

709
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 5: such a good basketball player, but you couldn't because he

710
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 5: was so terrific. And that energy and excitement is what

711
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 5: I have been feeling for the first time since those

712
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 5: Obama days. Like I was in des Moines, That's when

713
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 5: I met Kamala Harris, going door to door with her

714
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 5: family des Moines, the snows of des Moines, Iowa in

715
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 5: two thousand and seven, with the step kids. I don't

716
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:57,959
Speaker 5: think the kids are.

717
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: Dug We're there.

718
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 5: Was Kamala, it was her sister Maya, was her brother

719
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 5: in law Tony. Those are the three I remember from

720
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 5: Team Kamala at those early like Obama des Moines, like

721
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 5: we were totally bedraggled. All of us are going door

722
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 5: to door and then we'd have dinner together, and I

723
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 5: knew Tony already and Maya. They're like, hey, this is

724
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 5: Maya's sister, Kamala. This is two thousand and seven.

725
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 4: So she was attorneys general or she was DA.

726
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 5: No, this was before she was AG. This was when

727
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 5: she was a DA. She was the DA in San Francisco.

728
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 5: That's the excitement. To answer your question. I know it's

729
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 5: only a few days, it's only since Saturday. It's not

730
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 5: you know, it's five days. But oh my fucking heavans.

731
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 5: It is a surge of excitement. You know. We had

732
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 5: a call last night of all the original Obama adopters,

733
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 5: like they were in they were helping. After the debate,

734
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 5: after Jeane twenty seventh, We're like, oh my god, we're

735
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 5: probably gonna lose it. Just it's like it is the

736
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 5: end of the world if Trump wins. It's not a

737
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 5: Trump specific thing. I am not a never Trumper. I

738
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 5: worked on his transition for God's sakes, right.

739
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: But the Supreme Court has laid the groundwork to give

740
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: Trump even more power.

741
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 5: It was immediately apparent when he said he's gonna take

742
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 5: constitutionally forbidden foreign government cash emoguments like it's been clear

743
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 5: for years that the guys fraudster, a criminal look crooked

744
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 5: thirty four times convicted for what Molly twenty sixteen election

745
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 5: tampering and twenty seventeen cover up. Saturday morning, I got

746
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 5: up and we were looking at a very high risk

747
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 5: of the end of the American experiment of a dictatorship

748
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 5: Victor Warbon or the worst dictatorship in America. Dunday morning,

749
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 5: I got up and it was a new ope. I'm

750
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 5: a star wars nerd it was a new ope. So

751
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 5: I think it's like those Obama That's the feeling I

752
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 5: have and the organizing that's happening thousands of people I'm

753
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 5: talking to, like everyone I know, is so terrific.

754
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Obama coalition is all in for the vice president.

755
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 5: Yes, we are all in. We were in. I guess

756
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 5: all in is a bit much. We were in, and

757
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 5: some of us were all in. Some of my Obama

758
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 5: friends were doing everything they could for Biden. You know,

759
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 5: I have some limitations. I can't formally affiliate with the

760
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 5: campaign because of some of the places that I work.

761
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 5: But I can write a check.

762
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: I can.

763
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 5: You know, there's certain things I can do I'm not hiding,

764
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 5: which candidate I support. I've been very outspoken. I can

765
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 5: do policy stuff, but I felt a surge like I'm

766
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 5: going to do everything in my power that I'm allowed

767
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 5: to to every waking minute. It's not just a pro

768
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 5: Kommala knowna forever. I love her. I know Doug. I

769
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 5: met him.

770
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 3: He's terrific.

771
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 4: Everybody loves Doug.

772
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 5: That's why he's a wonderful second gentleman. It's not just

773
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 5: that I know them, it's they are wonderful. They have

774
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 5: a lot of energy, they have a lot of youth

775
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 5: that they bring to it. But it's that there's all

776
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 5: for democracy. We've gotten from age, an age versus autocracy

777
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 5: referendum in twenty twenty four, where you know, age was

778
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 5: looking like it was going to be the winning issue.

779
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 5: Trump is also old, and he's nuts, and he's a dictator.

780
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 5: He's a self confessed want to be dictator and a liar.

781
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 5: Like his performance was worse than Biden on June twenty seventh.

782
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 5: Everything was a lie, but Age that bucket was winning

783
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 5: out over autocracy. Now it's a referendum on freedom versus dictatorship,

784
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 5: on dictatorship versus democracy. I think freedom and democracy are

785
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 5: going to beat out dictatorship an autocracy, and that's the

786
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 5: excitement is about there's hope for America again. I called

787
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 5: bullshit on JD Vance when he says, Oh, calling Trump

788
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 5: out as an autocrat created the climate of violence for

789
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 5: the shooting. Trump created a climate of violence. And We're

790
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 5: not going to be silenced JD You Project twenty twenty five, Accoalt,

791
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 5: We're not going to be silenced by you in saying

792
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 5: American democracies on the line.

793
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: One of the things that I want to ask you

794
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: about is you are the ethics czar under Barack Obama,

795
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: and you had a line, and maybe you didn't really

796
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: say this, but your line was, if it sounds fun,

797
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: you can't.

798
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 5: Go It's in Barock's book. The exact line is, if

799
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 5: it sounds fun, you can't do it. Yeah, and he

800
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 5: writes he has a whole section of his book because

801
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 5: he's proud of it. And I'm proud of it, and

802
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 5: every Obama person is proud of it. And Kamala, by

803
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 5: the way, Kamala and Doug have been very good at this.

804
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 5: Doug quit his law firm. He's not like Trump. It's

805
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 5: not like Trump keeping his businesses. Obama I wouldn't even

806
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 5: let as ethics are, I wouldn't even let him have

807
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,399
Speaker 5: an investment. He had to just invest in diverse bied

808
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 5: mutual funds, right, which is.

809
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: What Kamala and Doug him too. They just have mutual funds.

810
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, what we've seen from Trump and Trump world is

811
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 5: so ridiculous. The first thing they did when they got

812
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 5: in office was changed that ethics agreement that Obama and I.

813
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 5: Obama wrote the thing with me, everybody had decided I'm

814
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 5: illegally binding ethics agreement when you came in the Obama

815
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 5: administration one page declaration of you know, you won't take gifts,

816
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 5: you won't own businesses, such no conflicts. So Obama's very

817
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 5: proud of this. He writes in his book that one

818
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 5: of the real accomplishments was eight years no scandals.

819
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 4: Well except for the Tan suit.

820
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 5: The Tan suit that was the worst scandal. Unlike Trump,

821
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 5: we didn't have to parton a bunch of White House

822
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 5: campaign and finance bundlers who were associated with us. We

823
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 5: didn't have any Special Council investigations, we didn't have prosecutions,

824
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 5: we didn't have convictions.

825
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 4: But what about impeachments?

826
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 5: There were no impeachments. I mean the contrast between probably

827
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 5: the most corrupt president in American history. That's one of

828
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 5: the reasons they rate Trump worse and Obama. And now

829
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 5: Kamala is a similar person. She's a prosecutor taking on

830
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 5: a perpetrator. And that's true in ethics too. I was

831
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 5: the impeachment prosecutor. My other nicknames were mister No and

832
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 5: the fun sponge, not just the ethics are like, I

833
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 5: know a straight shooter when I see one. That's Kamala.

834
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 5: There's no issues about this with her.

835
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about the way that Obama won

836
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: and how that was different than the way that Hillary

837
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: Clinton lost.

838
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 4: Was there a campaigning difference too.

839
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 5: In the Obama Hillary campaign. Yeah, yes, but actually people

840
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 5: forget this. They don't talk about this. We had a

841
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 5: surge of energy. Like I was there with Obama from

842
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 5: the very beginning the whole campaign. Molly was a little

843
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 5: bullpen of like a small room above the subway shop.

844
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 5: That's how the campaign started, above the subway shop on

845
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 5: Capitol Ale, so Senator Obama could get there or it

846
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 5: was like four walls like a studio apartment, and there

847
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 5: was a long trestle table on each wall with computers,

848
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 5: and that was where the pluffs and the axle rods

849
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 5: and the early campaign people would sit and work when

850
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 5: we were just starting up the campaign. And then there

851
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 5: was a little side room which was actually a storage room,

852
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 5: and we had shelves in that storage room of Obama's

853
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 5: books and a small table like a small dining table,

854
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 5: and that's where Obama candidate. Obama would have his meetings

855
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 5: like and I would bring my friends, policy friends, finance friends,

856
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 5: whatever to come and sit in the room, and Obama

857
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 5: would talk to him, give him a book. And two

858
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 5: thousand and seven was after a big surge of energy.

859
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 5: At the beginning of the year was flat. Obama would

860
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 5: go to these candidate events and he'd be debating Hillary

861
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 5: or speaking after Hillary, and they were not uniform and

862
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 5: Hillary was actually after an Obama surge. At the beginning,

863
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 5: Hillary was ahead in a critical polling, including in Iowa.

864
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 5: Iowa was huge for us. We had to win Iowa.

865
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 5: I guess we could have won Iowa or New Hampshire,

866
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 5: but Iowa was big, big, big, and if we'd lost

867
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 5: Iowa and then lost New Hampshire would have been game over.

868
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 5: We had a meeting in des Moine of the top

869
00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:01,919
Speaker 5: campaign staff, the finance committee, and a candidate in October

870
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 5: I think late in October of two thousand and seven,

871
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 5: just a couple months before the Iowa caucus since January

872
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 5: two thousand and eight, and the Des Moines Register poll

873
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 5: came out that day and Obama was well behind Hillary

874
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 5: and that's the definitive poll in Iowa. And he spoke

875
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 5: to us, all we had a bunch of meetings and

876
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 5: like people were wringing their hands, and Larry David he

877
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 5: wasn't there. But I don't know if I've ever told

878
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 5: this story on a podcast because it's such a Larry

879
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 5: David herb story. He's like, I thought I was getting

880
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 5: chocolate ice cream with Obama Rocky Road with everything in it,

881
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 5: and it's vanilla. It's a vanilla campaign. Tell him I

882
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 5: saw him right before that Des Moines think. He's like,

883
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 5: tell him, he's got to shake things up. This isn't

884
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 5: what I signed up for. So we had this meeting

885
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 5: and Obama was like, look, guys, he was confident, he

886
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 5: was cool, he took the issue, had on. He talked

887
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 5: to us I think Sunday morning of that long weekend,

888
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 5: He's like, look, guys, I got this. Here's the plan,

889
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 5: here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna win Iowa. Here's how.

890
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 5: But bu bu bu b and they, you know, we

891
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 5: did have a plan. And it was after that that

892
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 5: that's when I, you know, we all like basically moved

893
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 5: to Iowa. I had a caucus district. I had to

894
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 5: get one hundred and twenty people to sign cards, and

895
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 5: I got like one hundred and forty. Like the people

896
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 5: were excited, and that one those cards I got of

897
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 5: people pledging Obama. They came to the caucus and we

898
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 5: had that plan across Iowa. He was right, he did

899
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 5: have it. We won, little end cup. Then they immediately

900
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 5: moved us all to New Hampshire. New Hampshire was a

901
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 5: little hiccup. I'll tell my other Larry David's story from

902
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 5: New Hampshire, but the rest was history. After New Hampshire,

903
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 5: we had a plan. Hillary had not really concentrated on

904
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 5: the caucuses and the other ways to garner votes, and

905
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 5: we did well and we won, and then I helped

906
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 5: solid ate A bunch of my friends brought him over

907
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 5: from Hillary. So the Larry David story was he came

908
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 5: to New Hampshire. He was not in Iowa for caucus night,

909
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 5: but he felt badly that he missed out, so he

910
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 5: came to New Hampshire and they had all of us

911
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 5: finance people with the friends and family. I was there

912
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 5: with the friends and family, the top campaign staff. He

913
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 5: had us in a little room to celebrate, to have

914
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 5: a party. It actually wasn't that fun. Afterwards, we started

915
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 5: getting rumors Brock was going to lose because he wasn't

916
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 5: very good in news debate with Hillary. He was a

917
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 5: short rant and Larry David at about I don't know

918
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 5: nine thirty really before we had final results, but the

919
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 5: word was we were going to lose. He like puts on

920
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 5: his coat, was talking to him and hanging out a

921
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 5: little bit. He puts on his coat and he's like

922
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 5: heading out the door. I'm like, Larry, where are you going?

923
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 5: Barrock and Michelle are going to come talk to us,

924
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 5: And he's like, I'm going out to buy some nuts,

925
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 5: like someone was leaving a party to go get snacks.

926
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 5: But of course he went back to his hotel, he

927
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 5: packed up, he got on his plane and he left.

928
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 5: He didn't want to be there. It was too emotional

929
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 5: for him, so Fortunately, the rest of it went a

930
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 5: lot better than New Hampshire. There will be ups and

931
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 5: downs with Kamala. We know that not every five days

932
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 5: is going to be as great as these first five days.

933
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 5: But it's super exciting and I think she's going to win.

934
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 5: More importantly, she's not going to be a drag on

935
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 5: the ticket. He's going to lift up all the other

936
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 5: Democratic candidates. We have a super chance of taking back

937
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 5: the House to go with the presidency, and we have

938
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 5: a shot. It's a long shot, but we have a

939
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 5: shot in the Senate, and all kinds of important state

940
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 5: races are out there as well. He's lifting all those

941
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 5: tides and you see it. I was talking to the

942
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 5: Wisconsin people. Ben Wickler, Wisconsin Party chair, good friend of mine.

943
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 5: He says, it's like rockstar energy like he hadn't seen

944
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 5: since Obama. We certainly didn't see it with Biden, and

945
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 5: you didn't see it in Biden' That was a vote

946
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 5: to save America. That was not like a you know,

947
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 5: a generational energetic inflection point.

948
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 4: Thank you, Norm.

949
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 1: I hope you will come back sometime soon anytime.

950
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: No moment, fu Rick Wilson isn't our moment. Molly it

951
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 3: is our our special time.

952
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 4: Moment, so not I know right, it is our moment of.

953
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 3: It is our moment of fuckery, my moment of fuckery.

954
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 3: Molly is well, everybody in America was celebrating watching Evan

955
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 3: Gershkowitz and Paul Whalen and the other hostages get off

956
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 3: that plane last night.

957
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 4: Unbelievable.

958
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 3: MAGA was doing everything they could to shit on it. Yeah,

959
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 3: and it really tells you how low these people are

960
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: and how how desperate they are to pretend that Donald

961
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 3: Trump is something bigger than he is, especially when you

962
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 3: saw a good president pull off a complicated deal. These people,

963
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 3: like always, they just they just crap on America as

964
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: much as they possibly can.

965
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: I think that's a really important moment of fuckery, especially

966
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: because these multi country hostage deals are, as you and

967
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: I both know from all of our work in national

968
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: security I'm kidding.

969
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 3: And our extensive hostage negotiation efforts.

970
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: And my time in the CIA, that these things are

971
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: very complicated and hard to maneuver. And nobody got killed

972
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: then everybody got out, and Groshkowitz was known as like

973
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: kind of a prize hostage.

974
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh for sure.

975
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: And Putin has killed Prize hostages pretty recently, including Alexander Navolney's.

976
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 1: So the fact that he was gotten out is not nothing.

977
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: And his parents were so happy, and it was just

978
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: such an incredible moment to shit on.

979
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 4: It is really Grandma, Do you want to know what

980
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 4: my moment of fuckery is?

981
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 3: I do.

982
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: So my moment of puckery is here. We have Harris

983
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 1: who is raising a ton of money and speaking beautifully,

984
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: and Chris crossing the whole country. One of the things

985
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: Donald Trump did in twenty sixteen was he went everywhere,

986
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: and one of the secrets of winning the presidency is

987
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: going everywhere. So next week, Harris is going to Wisconsin twice, right,

988
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: two different parts of Wisconsin.

989
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 4: She's just incredible.

990
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: I am watching her in awe and delight, and Donald

991
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: Trump tries to steal the spotlight away from her by

992
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: pretending he doesn't understand what it means to have a

993
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: black father and an Indian mother. And that is my

994
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: moment of fuckery, is him trying to just take a

995
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: moment away from her and from all of us who

996
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: are just having a sort of nice moment in American politics, of.

997
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 4: Which they are very very very few.

998
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 3: I'm just going to say, those moments are exceedingly rare

999
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 3: in our.

1000
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: World, exceedingly and we were having this nice moment where

1001
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: we were seeing just the relationship between Biden and Harris

1002
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: has been the kind of relationship I don't know what

1003
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: it's like behind the scenes, but what it's like publicly

1004
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 1: is the kind of very inspirational relationship between a mentor

1005
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: and a protege, the kind of thing that you hope

1006
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: is happening in companies and state legislatures and around the world.

1007
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: And Donald Trump yet again took that from us to

1008
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: try to shift the news cycle to a very bad

1009
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: faith attack on her.

1010
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 3: He is a bad faith actor at every level. And

1011
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 3: nothing changes that, nothing, nothing at all. But I don't

1012
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 3: think the era of good times is over yet. I

1013
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 3: think she's a happy warrior and I think that's the

1014
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 3: way she's been running her campaign, and that is good

1015
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 3: stuff for this country exactly.

1016
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1017
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

1018
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1019
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1020
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,720
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening,