Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And
Speaker 1: as the title suggests, on this episode, who we're talking
Speaker 1: about two types of LORDI sees. We're talking about the
Speaker 1: fire tornado, this giant pillar of flame stretching from from
Speaker 1: Earth to heaven, burning up everything in its path, pitching
Speaker 1: flaming debris out in front of it. And then we
Speaker 1: also have the sharknado, a a tornado, a more or
Speaker 1: less traditional tornado, but instead of having a bunch of
Speaker 1: you know, bits of houses and broken trees and garbage
Speaker 1: and dirt caught up in it, it has great white
Speaker 1: sharks throwing them all over the place. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: You're trying to just go about your daily life and
Speaker 1: then bam, white shark it's you, starts eating your leg.
Speaker 1: Then a hammerhead shark falls on you and crushes Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's pretty exciting, and we are bringing you
Speaker 1: both or all of earth, wind, fire, rain and sharks.
Speaker 1: Yeah spoiler. One of these is a little more sciences
Speaker 1: than the other. But by the end of it, we
Speaker 1: will we will put the question to you, because right
Speaker 1: now you don't have enough information to really say what
Speaker 1: would win in a fight sharpnado or or or fire tornado.
Speaker 1: But by the end of this podcast, you will know
Speaker 1: and you'll have an informed opinion you can share with
Speaker 1: your friends. All right, let's get to it. We'll start
Speaker 1: off with the idea of the fire tornado. Now, just
Speaker 1: the idea again of a pillar or column of fire, uh,
Speaker 1: swirling up into the sky is a pretty old image,
Speaker 1: I mean for starters is we'll discuss it is a
Speaker 1: natural phenomenon. So in all likelihood, people have been seeing
Speaker 1: this sort of thing occur or and then hearing about
Speaker 1: it since time out of mind. But it's also factored
Speaker 1: into this symbol of its factored into into our our
Speaker 1: religious views and our spiritual views of the world. For instance,
Speaker 1: if you go digging around in the Old Testament, you
Speaker 1: will find accounts of Yahweh taking on the form of
Speaker 1: a pillar of fire. Exodus one and the Lord went
Speaker 1: before them by day in a pillar of a cloud
Speaker 1: to leave them the way, and by night in a
Speaker 1: pillar of fire to give them light to go by
Speaker 1: day and night. I mean, this is really impressive, right,
Speaker 1: This is an impressive talisman to have at your disposal. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this is yeah, this is the you know, the
Speaker 1: the old school uh God here, this is the pretty
Speaker 1: terrifying one that it does things like appear as a
Speaker 1: pillar of fire. And then there's another really cool account
Speaker 1: of of a deity as a pillar of fire that
Speaker 1: you'll find in Hinduism and according to one Hindu narrative,
Speaker 1: and you'll you'll see this reflected in sculpture and painting
Speaker 1: as well. UH, Brahma and Vishnu are arguing over who's
Speaker 1: the most powerful of the gods. Uh. Now, Brahma and Vishnu,
Speaker 1: they are part of this uh a form of kind
Speaker 1: of the comal kind of trinity with Shiva. Um. They
Speaker 1: stand for world creation in the form of Brahma, world
Speaker 1: maintenance in the form of Vishnu, and then a world
Speaker 1: destruction in the form of Shiva. So Brahma vision near.
Speaker 1: They're standing around who's the most powerful to gods? I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's an argument. But then this huge
Speaker 1: column of fire appeared right between them, burning straight down
Speaker 1: into the earth and searing up through the clouds high up.
Speaker 1: So they decided to investigate. Right, they're curious, so Vishnu,
Speaker 1: in his boar incarnation, digs down into the earth and
Speaker 1: attempt to find the column's base. Meanwhile, Brahma flies into
Speaker 1: the sky on his vehicle, the Hamsa bird to seek
Speaker 1: the columns top show off. Yeah, well the other one
Speaker 1: turned into a boar. Yeah that's pretty cool too. So yeah,
Speaker 1: they both take on their their godly bowers and they
Speaker 1: seek the the end or beginning to this column of fire.
Speaker 1: Neither can find anything, so they fly back down to
Speaker 1: where they started and they say, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: can't figure this out. And then the column of fire
Speaker 1: opens up and Shiva uh steps forth, and then they
Speaker 1: both have to agree, Yeah, she is probably the most
Speaker 1: powerful of the three of us. That's right, because Shiva
Speaker 1: is the great destroyer, particularly of the ego. Yes, so
Speaker 1: it would make sense that Shiva would roll it out
Speaker 1: like that. So there you go. There's a little religious,
Speaker 1: mythical spiritual fluff to sort of flavor uh, this idea
Speaker 1: of the fire tornado, which does exist in real luck. Now,
Speaker 1: to talk about what a fire tornado is, we need
Speaker 1: to also discuss what tornadoes are and what what a
Speaker 1: tornado isn't I also want to mention before we go
Speaker 1: into fire tornadoes that this was something that was a
Speaker 1: standout at of course, the Burning Man Festival, Yes, just
Speaker 1: put on in the in the desert in California to
Speaker 1: search for two thousand twelve fire tornadoes. Burning Man mesmerizing
Speaker 1: videos of the smoke devils just marching out one by
Speaker 1: one in front of the audience. Yeah, with some it
Speaker 1: was hard to tell from those videos to what extent
Speaker 1: they have fire in them, because they're clearly the gleaming
Speaker 1: of the of the flat of the fire, of the
Speaker 1: huge blaze is is illuminating them as they roll outward.
Speaker 1: I think the I think they're mostly smokes actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: but they are impressive nonetheless. So these are also known
Speaker 1: as fire whirls or even fire devils. Uh. Again, they're
Speaker 1: swirling columns of fire and they surge forward to consume
Speaker 1: new fuel, sometimes heaving flaming logs through the air. That's
Speaker 1: been reported now, to a lay person, any funnel shaped
Speaker 1: column of air is a tornado, right, it's a twister
Speaker 1: or whatever. But meteorologists tend to be a little more
Speaker 1: discriminating about this kind of thing, and they classify twisters
Speaker 1: into two broad categories. Their super cell and their non
Speaker 1: super cell and it's it's all based on how they
Speaker 1: form and how much DAMA they inflict. Uh. For a
Speaker 1: storm to be called a supercell tornado, it must have
Speaker 1: had it must have three characteristics. Okay, it must form
Speaker 1: within a massive thunderstorm and be penned it or suspended
Speaker 1: from that storm. Okay. Number two, it must come in
Speaker 1: contact with the surface of the Earth. And number three,
Speaker 1: it must have winds in excess of sixty five or
Speaker 1: a hundred and five kilometers per hour. Any other tornado
Speaker 1: that fails to meet these standards would fall into the
Speaker 1: non super cell category. And that includes, for instance, water spouts.
Speaker 1: Water spouts they look like they might just be like
Speaker 1: a tornado in the ocean, but they're not. They form
Speaker 1: a different way, arising from cumulus clouds that haven't become
Speaker 1: thunderstorms that may never become thunderstorms. And then it's sucking
Speaker 1: up water and you know, marching across the ocean looking
Speaker 1: like some sort of giant Titanic water creature. Uh. Then
Speaker 1: you have land spouts, you have gust nadoes, and Uh. Finally,
Speaker 1: whether scientists recognize a third class of tornado like storms
Speaker 1: known as whirlwinds Okay, now this is key. Um. These
Speaker 1: common types of atmospheric systems occur when the sun heats
Speaker 1: dry terrain and causes a column of warm air to
Speaker 1: rise rapidly. As it does, the column of air will
Speaker 1: whirl rotate around a vertical access, much like water draining
Speaker 1: down in the bathtub, you know, becomes visible when they
Speaker 1: pick up debris from the ground, and are often named
Speaker 1: to reflect the nature of the debris. So you have
Speaker 1: this little little vortex and picking up some dust. That's
Speaker 1: a dust devil. It's picking up sand. You call it
Speaker 1: a sand world, picking up snow, snow whirls. If it
Speaker 1: were to pick up sharks, you would be more uh,
Speaker 1: you know, accurate in calling it a shirk a shark whirl,
Speaker 1: I guess. But then they're also even have a worlds
Speaker 1: where it's picking up Hey. So again, wind doesn't look
Speaker 1: like anything, but when it picks up these things, then
Speaker 1: it takes. That's the thing that we associate with it.
Speaker 1: So fire tornadoes have They are not operating exactly alike.
Speaker 1: Tornadoes are probably closer to worlds, but even then they're
Speaker 1: not specifically like you can't say, hey, that's that's actually
Speaker 1: like a whirlwind um. But they do have again some
Speaker 1: of the same things that play like vortices, uh, intense
Speaker 1: up drafts, they've got rotation, and of course the conditions
Speaker 1: have to be met in order for a fire tornado
Speaker 1: to be created. Thing about fire tornadoes, just to remember
Speaker 1: that you gotta you gotta have a fire. And when
Speaker 1: you have a fire going, and it could be a
Speaker 1: house fire, it could be a burning city, it could
Speaker 1: be a forest fire. But when you have a blaze
Speaker 1: of this magnitude, you essentially have a microclimate. You have
Speaker 1: a different set of air temperature, air pressure um going on.
Speaker 1: And as we've discussed before, I mean those are the
Speaker 1: that's that's how wind moves, that's how most of our
Speaker 1: weather patterns that we observe. It boils down to temperature differentials,
Speaker 1: pressure deferentials, et cetera. Yeah, no one describes them as
Speaker 1: forming when superheated air near the surface of a large
Speaker 1: fire zone like a wildfire. By the way, I just
Speaker 1: head an NPR today. There are fifty wildfires going on
Speaker 1: in the US right now. Um And anyway, so if
Speaker 1: you have one of these conditions, it's very rare, but
Speaker 1: this can occur. You've got that surface of large fire zone,
Speaker 1: and it rises rapidly in an air mass where sufficient
Speaker 1: horizontal or vertical vorticity that's the spin in the atmosphere
Speaker 1: is also present. So like a dust double or whirlwind,
Speaker 1: the rapidly rising air abubble wildfire can accelerate and turn
Speaker 1: the local vorticity into a tight vertical vortex made out
Speaker 1: of fire instead of dust and dust devils will peter
Speaker 1: out pretty quickly, but the sustained heat of a wildfire
Speaker 1: zone can help maintain a fairly long lived fire whirl
Speaker 1: and that can last for several minutes or more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is to appear to dance around through the fire
Speaker 1: and in some cases can fit out from the fire
Speaker 1: and and spread the wildfire into an area that it
Speaker 1: may have been already moving towards. Anyway, So you have
Speaker 1: a specific example to share with us. We're talking in
Speaker 1: generalities here, but you have a specific story of a
Speaker 1: fire tornage. Yeah. This is basically like an anatomy of
Speaker 1: a whorl from a weather perspective. And this is according
Speaker 1: to a Langdon North Dakota meteorological team reporting on a
Speaker 1: fire tornado that reached the base of developing cumuliform clouds
Speaker 1: and it stretched feet that's about into the air and
Speaker 1: it lasted for about ten minutes. Was pretty impressive. So um,
Speaker 1: what the London North Dakota meteorologists said is that the
Speaker 1: fire zone heating produced the rapidly rising air, and then
Speaker 1: you have the lower level winds that had enough environmental
Speaker 1: share to induce a vertical vorticity near the surface and
Speaker 1: get the fire a world going and then sustain it.
Speaker 1: And then two other factors where at play um, they
Speaker 1: have a low level moist sure that was sufficient to rise,
Speaker 1: cool condense and form the pyro cumulus cloud deck that
Speaker 1: it was built upon. And then the other factor was
Speaker 1: the lifted condensation level was close enough to the level
Speaker 1: of free convection so that the developing pyrocumulus quickly became
Speaker 1: a towering cumulus. And that may have increased the overall
Speaker 1: updraft speed and vertical verticity to such an extent that
Speaker 1: the near surface fire world stretched into then drum mold
Speaker 1: a fire tornado. So we got upgraded in this sense. Alright, well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break. When we come back,
Speaker 1: we're gonna discuss fire tornadoes a little more. They were
Speaker 1: gonna move on to sharknadoes and then we are going
Speaker 1: to attend to call it shardonado versus fire tornado would
Speaker 1: be right back. All right, we're back. We're discussing fire tornadoes. Um.
Speaker 1: There are a few other examples we have about wheel
Speaker 1: life fired mornadoes when they form. Uh. And some of
Speaker 1: these examples are drawing for a much more tragic circumstances. UM.
Speaker 1: The for instance, the great uh Suchtigo fire one in Prestigo, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: UH and apparently also in sections of Michigan. And this
Speaker 1: is ablaze that consumed booming Milltown on the same day
Speaker 1: as the Chicago fire. And there's a result of the
Speaker 1: same conditions. You had a dry summer, slashing bird farming
Speaker 1: practice in a powerful cold front that swooped in from
Speaker 1: the western US, bringing strong winds that turned h just
Speaker 1: a few small prairie fires into a raging inferno. So
Speaker 1: this town, which Cannain, also contained hundreds of wooden structures
Speaker 1: and lumber yards overflowing with all of this, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: delicious fodder for ablaze right in the in the in
Speaker 1: the middle of everything. So when a fire reached the town,
Speaker 1: it found a ready supply of fuel and in a
Speaker 1: matter of minutes, a massive fire tornado swirled around the town,
Speaker 1: generating a hundred mile one kilometer winds and ambient temperatures
Speaker 1: topping out at seven degrees fahrenheit or three seventy degrees celsius.
Speaker 1: So sadly, the people who didn't make it into the
Speaker 1: river died in the flames, and it still ranks as
Speaker 1: one of the worst US fire disasters. Final death toll
Speaker 1: of about a two thousand. Here's another one in three,
Speaker 1: the Great Canto earthquake in Japan ignited a firestorm that
Speaker 1: raged through the city and produced a gigantic fire tornado
Speaker 1: that killed thirty eight thousand people in fifteen minutes. And
Speaker 1: this was in the Hifaku Shu Auto region of Tokyo.
Speaker 1: And then you have the San Luis Obispo fire April seven,
Speaker 1: uh is during a moderate thunderstorm over the area there
Speaker 1: in California, lightning struck oil reserves at a Union Oil
Speaker 1: Company tank farm located uh just about two and a
Speaker 1: half miles south of the city center, and the discharge
Speaker 1: ignited the oil itself or vapors above the oil, leading
Speaker 1: to a five day fire. They consumed roughly six million
Speaker 1: barrels of patrolling and over the course of it is
Speaker 1: after eyewitnesses observed apparently hundreds of fire tornadoes erupting as
Speaker 1: a result of the blaze. So yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: it is amazing stuff a scene, and there's tons of
Speaker 1: videos also, um, not just of a naturally occurring but
Speaker 1: of people trying to create their own uh fire tornadoes
Speaker 1: and team to them. Some of them are professionals, uh,
Speaker 1: are merely enthusiasts, right right, But it gives you a
Speaker 1: really good idea of all the different things that are
Speaker 1: at play here in directing the wind and the rotation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's what discussed before. Wildfires, you know, of themselves
Speaker 1: are natural occurrences. Uh. The environments where they frequently occur,
Speaker 1: you often have have organisms that depend on that cycle
Speaker 1: of fire and regrowth in order to continue and uh.
Speaker 1: And then you have these artificial environments that we create
Speaker 1: and then when they catch fire, you end up with
Speaker 1: artificial blazes. That's true. Uh. And those are all amazing sites.
Speaker 1: But but nothing is more amazing than seeing a terror
Speaker 1: read rise from the ashes of her own career and
Speaker 1: starring Sharknado. But also to see sharks just coming at
Speaker 1: you from from a storm in the sky. Yeah, now
Speaker 1: this is this has kind of been the summer of Sharknado.
Speaker 1: It's really been something that everyone has rallied around. That's,
Speaker 1: of course, the the Sci Fi Channel original picture that
Speaker 1: came out that had a pretty strong viral marketing campaign
Speaker 1: behind it, and it's just goofy enough two enrapture everyone
Speaker 1: on some level or another, basically the whole the whole
Speaker 1: idea here is that a tornado spins off from the ocean,
Speaker 1: picks up all of these uh, these these sharks, all
Speaker 1: of them like massive sharks, and it comes in and
Speaker 1: just throwing them everywhere. So it's dropping sharks into pools
Speaker 1: and two flooded houses into the street onto people, and
Speaker 1: hilarious ridiculousness ensues. And you actually he sent me a
Speaker 1: two minute clip that sort of encapsulates the whole movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just boils it down to dumblines and and kills,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of wonderful and awful. In my
Speaker 1: favorite part and I'm sure for people who have seen
Speaker 1: it or have seen the clip is the guy Ian
Speaker 1: someone from nine O two one. Oh, I don't know
Speaker 1: some show. He like, I'm pretending like I don't know
Speaker 1: what show that is. He's in Sharknado. You don't have
Speaker 1: to know this, okay, Yeah, he falls from rescue helicopter. Yes,
Speaker 1: And and then of course into the jaws of a
Speaker 1: great white. And did I mention that as he's falling,
Speaker 1: he actually has a chainsaw with him, so as he's
Speaker 1: gulped up by the great white. Uh, they both fall
Speaker 1: to the ground and and he emerges, of course from
Speaker 1: from the great White, cutting himself out of it. And
Speaker 1: it's it's a fabulous, disgusting, ridiculous scene. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: O when everyone sees these trailers or God help him,
Speaker 1: watches the whole movie, asked themselves, could this actually happen?
Speaker 1: Could a sharponado actually hit my tent and hound my
Speaker 1: city and drop sharks on me? Well, we know there
Speaker 1: have been fish events, that's the thing. Yeah, and plenty
Speaker 1: of accounts of of of weather patterns picking up strange things,
Speaker 1: often living things, and dropping them. Suddenly it'll rain fish somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Water spouts, as he had mentioned before, um one of
Speaker 1: the types of twisters and tornadoes that are carron in
Speaker 1: the ocean. One in two and ten sucked up hundreds
Speaker 1: of fish into the vortex before they bombarded the small
Speaker 1: town of La jam Hope. I've said that correctly. I'm
Speaker 1: sure our Australian listeners will let me know. But that
Speaker 1: was hundreds of miles from the coast and then from
Speaker 1: my favorite ones a downpour of golf balls, not golf
Speaker 1: sized hail, um, but we're talking about actual golf balls
Speaker 1: descended upon Punta Gorda, Florida, after tornado struck the golf course.
Speaker 1: It's like golf ballonnado. Yeah. Yeah, So that sounds pretty terrifying.
Speaker 1: That could that could hurt, doesn't it. But just I
Speaker 1: wanted to cover water spouts really quickly because again, as
Speaker 1: we said, these are essentially tornadoes over water, and there
Speaker 1: are two types. There's a fair weather on a tornadic one.
Speaker 1: And the tornadic water spouts begin as tornadoes over land
Speaker 1: and then they move over water. And they also form
Speaker 1: in severe thunderstorms over a body of water, and they
Speaker 1: can re really a ton of havoc. We're talking about
Speaker 1: high winds, hail, and dangerous lightning. Now, fair weather water
Speaker 1: spouts developed in calmer weather and they form over open
Speaker 1: water and they developed this surface and then they climbed
Speaker 1: skyward towards the clouds so as we've seen again these
Speaker 1: these are natural occurring events that can dump um golf
Speaker 1: balls or sea creatures onto the land. Yeah, but the
Speaker 1: sea creatures that they dumped were generally talking stuff like
Speaker 1: like a large mouth bath nine and a fourth inches long.
Speaker 1: That's according to Dr Jeff Masters over the Weather Underground,
Speaker 1: that's one of the heaviest uh like for instance, six
Speaker 1: pound fish all in India. That's the kind of the
Speaker 1: level of fish we're talking about, not a two thousand
Speaker 1: pounds great white shark, much less hundreds of them. That's right.
Speaker 1: And Bill pats Aert, a chomatologist with the Jet Propulsion Lab,
Speaker 1: he was given the what if question, like what what
Speaker 1: if it could happen, what would it take? And he
Speaker 1: said it would take a massive water spout to deliver
Speaker 1: these great whites, like an e F five spinning at
Speaker 1: speeds of more than two fifty miles per hour to
Speaker 1: journey the updraft needed to suck these great whites out
Speaker 1: of the Pacific and then dumped them onto l ah
Speaker 1: And that he said, is just probably not ever going
Speaker 1: to occur. Now, having heard from an expert that it
Speaker 1: is on some level feasible, I can't help but imagine,
Speaker 1: what have you had a planet where this type of weather,
Speaker 1: we're strong enough, winds and and and vortices were possible.
Speaker 1: What have you had a breed of shark like creature
Speaker 1: that depended on this like it was for this creature,
Speaker 1: this was like the salmon swimming stream to breed. To breed,
Speaker 1: they have to enter one of these water spouts and
Speaker 1: get thrown out on land, and then they have to
Speaker 1: eat terror read in order to reproduce. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: you're saying, there's a planet people with just terror reads. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe their clones. I don't know how it works. There's
Speaker 1: but everyone all beat all the beings on the land
Speaker 1: or terror read. Okay, so planet terror read yeah, and
Speaker 1: planet shark sharks and terror read living in perfect harmony
Speaker 1: with one another. And this is kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: I know this would be asking asked if it was
Speaker 1: like an or division era, but it would have to
Speaker 1: be much farther in the future than that, because you
Speaker 1: have land dwelling terror reads occurring. I guess it would
Speaker 1: be possible. I don't know. I hate to say that,
Speaker 1: you'd I'd have to be a meteorologist to really answer that.
Speaker 1: And a cosmologist. Well, there you have it. We've broken
Speaker 1: it down. You have, on one side, the fire tornado,
Speaker 1: which actually exists, is rare, but exists and has been
Speaker 1: documented and seen throughout human history and may or may
Speaker 1: not be a god. And then on the other hand,
Speaker 1: you have the sharknado, which does not exist and will
Speaker 1: probably never exist on this planet, but is on some
Speaker 1: level possible. So which would win in a fight? What's
Speaker 1: your take sharknado versus fire tornado? Yes? And do you
Speaker 1: think that terror read Is is the the great destroyer
Speaker 1: or is she just fodder for the great destroyers on
Speaker 1: planet terror read Let us sim all right, well you're
Speaker 1: complicating the question. And then here's another possibility. What if
Speaker 1: the two storms merged and then you had to deal
Speaker 1: with a fire tornado filled with flaming sharks when they
Speaker 1: just cancel each other out, No, no, I think they would.
Speaker 1: It would upgrade. It would be like sharks on fire
Speaker 1: soaring through the air like meteorites, particularly if that water
Speaker 1: had a generous amount of a oil slick on it. Right, Oh,
Speaker 1: then it would be sort of like fire breathing. It
Speaker 1: would be like a napalm shark tornado. Yeah, it's pretty big.
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be the sequel. All right, well,
Speaker 1: here you go. Uh. Indeed, let us know what you
Speaker 1: think about this, um. The idea of Terry read is
Speaker 1: a destroyer of worlds. The idea of the fire torno,
Speaker 1: the reality of the fire tornado? Have you ever seen one?
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear about that. Were you at two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve burning Man? And you've got to see these
Speaker 1: things spiral out and uh and mostly smoke, but still
Speaker 1: very impressive? Uh? And then your thoughts on Sharknado? Have
Speaker 1: you seen Sharknado and its entirety? It's so? What was
Speaker 1: that like? And then how feasible do you think it is?
Speaker 1: And then what would you do Sharkonado were to hit
Speaker 1: your town? All these questions are fair game. You can
Speaker 1: let us know in all the normal ways. UM. You
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