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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, you found me. It's Rosie O'Donnell here on onward.

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Speaker 1: And guess what fantastic news. The sag and After strike

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Speaker 1: is over. And I am so happy about that and

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Speaker 1: so proud of the negotiating committee led by Fran Dresher,

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Speaker 1: who is one of the smartest people I've ever met

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Speaker 1: in my life. I love and adore her. She's the

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Speaker 1: big sister I dreamed of having, and I am so

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Speaker 1: happy to get through life with her in my orbit.

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Speaker 1: And so Fran Dresher, thank you, thank you. And now

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Speaker 1: we can talk about all movies and everything. And I

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Speaker 1: saw Naiad. It's on Netflix, Jody Foster and that Benning

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Speaker 1: epic film. Beautifully shot, the colors are gorgeous, the acting

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Speaker 1: is astounding, and just how they shot her swimming in

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Speaker 1: the terror of it and you feel it so well.

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Speaker 1: And listen, we weren't allowed to talk about or promote

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Speaker 1: or whatever the movies that we've seen. And truthfully, since

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Speaker 1: the strike started, I haven't seen that many movies, and

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Speaker 1: in fact, I've seen very few. I've been watching, for

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Speaker 1: lack of a better word, crap reality TV. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's what you call it, right, crap reality where you

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Speaker 1: know Love in the Wild. Now, I thought this was

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Speaker 1: a new show, Love in the Wild. Apparently it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's been on a long time. But I was watching

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Speaker 1: shows like that and staying away from the news. But

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Speaker 1: I saw a Naiad had been released to stream on Netflix,

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Speaker 1: and I watched it, and I'm so impressed with the

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Speaker 1: film and the relationship that Annette and Jody have, And

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Speaker 1: I would love to have anyone involved with that film

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. So if anyone knows anyone who was

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Speaker 1: on that film wants to come and talk to me

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Speaker 1: about it, I would love to have Diana Naiad herself

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Speaker 1: sit here and tell me about her life. What a

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Speaker 1: fascinating woman, What an amazing friendship and relationship she had,

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Speaker 1: and what unbelievable strength and fortitude and courage and every

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Speaker 1: word you can think of that means that really pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: Excellent voter turnout turned out on Tuesday, which is an

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Speaker 1: energy and of force we need to continue in strengthen

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Speaker 1: until the twenty twenty four elections. It's a scary time,

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Speaker 1: there's no denying it. Everybody knows democracy is a participation sport. Right,

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Speaker 1: you got to participate, and it requires that it requires truth,

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Speaker 1: and it requires participation. Today's guest on the show is

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Speaker 1: Alexandra Pelosi, daughter of Nancy and Paul Pelosi, and an

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Speaker 1: outstanding documentarian. Her latest documentary, The Insurrectionist next Door, I

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Speaker 1: think should be required viewing for every American before we

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Speaker 1: vote in November twenty twenty four. With camera in hand

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Speaker 1: and no crew or even security, Alexandra interviewed January sixth rioters,

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Speaker 1: people who had pled guilty in court and were not

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Speaker 1: denying their role, people who she saw with her own

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Speaker 1: eyes stormed the Capitol. And her previous documentary was Pelosi

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Speaker 1: in the House, a doc about her mother, including the

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Speaker 1: January sixth riot insurrection and violence which Alexandra and her

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Speaker 1: son were caught in while making that film. This is

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Speaker 1: a great conversation with an amazing artist and woman, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really happy that she came to talk about this

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Speaker 1: amazing documentary. Here's me an, Alexandra Pelosi, Hi, Hi, how

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Speaker 1: are you are? You?

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Speaker 2: Look at you fabulous?

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Speaker 1: First of all, I just watched it again this morning.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's punishment.

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Speaker 1: What are you kidding me? A great documentary I love

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Speaker 1: to watch more than once. I always think, what did

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Speaker 1: I not see what did I not?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was interesting because when you watch a documentary

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Speaker 2: more than once, you realize things and then it changes

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Speaker 2: your opinion, and then you're confused and you don't know

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Speaker 2: if you you know if you love everyone or hate everybody.

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Speaker 2: Like when you say, whit love this movie? Let me

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Speaker 2: show it to you, you show to someone else and

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Speaker 2: then you look at it completely differently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I watched it twice and I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you, I think it should be required viewing for

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Speaker 1: all of America. How did you come up with the

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Speaker 1: concept of I'm going in there to those people who

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Speaker 1: threatened to kill my mother on the sixth. Then I'm

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Speaker 1: going in there and I'm going to talk to them

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Speaker 1: one on one, and no matter what, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: love them.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I was in the Capitol on January sixth,

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Speaker 2: and I saw those people on January sixth window from

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Speaker 2: the window, and my sixteen year old son was with me,

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Speaker 2: and he said, what if they stormed the Capitol? And

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Speaker 2: all the grown up security guards were like, come on, kid,

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Speaker 2: gooit imagination? So he called it. He knew right away

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Speaker 2: he was getting to the point where we're saying, I

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Speaker 2: think we should get out of here. So at some

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Speaker 2: point we evacuated. We had to go with her. Of course,

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Speaker 2: as a document filmmaker, I wanted to stay. I was

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Speaker 2: done to stay behind. One of my great regrets is,

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Speaker 2: damn I wish I had like hid and stayed behind

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Speaker 2: so I could.

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Speaker 1: Have Thank god you didn't.

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Speaker 2: Okay enough, I probably wouldn't be here today to talk

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Speaker 2: to you exactly, But at the time I wanted to

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Speaker 2: see him, so two minutes if you watch the video

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Speaker 2: camera now, you can see that two minutes before they

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Speaker 2: got to the speaker, she had been evacuated, so there

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Speaker 2: were two minutes behind us, and I just spent the

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Speaker 2: rest after that night, I wanted to know who are

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Speaker 2: these people? Now we went back into the building after

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Speaker 2: they had been all cleared out, and we'd seen they

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Speaker 2: literally shit in the place. They destroyed everything they live

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Speaker 2: And who would do this to the capital of the

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Speaker 2: United States? Forget about your politics. You wouldn't do this

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Speaker 2: to your mother's house. You wouldn't do this to the

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Speaker 2: You know, if you were at the mall, you know,

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Speaker 2: they literally they broke all these windows and doors and

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Speaker 2: mirrors and all the office supply, all the mugs in

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Speaker 2: the kitchen, they just broke everything. So I was fascinated

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Speaker 2: by are these people who does this? And I assumed

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Speaker 2: I started reading. I started calling some of them in jail,

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Speaker 2: and one of them named Ronnie Sandlin, sent me two

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Speaker 2: books from jail. Yes, they have Amazon access to computers,

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Speaker 2: and they have Amazon and jail. He sent me The

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Speaker 2: True Believer and The Crowd, which are two books they

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Speaker 2: use in psychology one O one classes, and they explained

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Speaker 2: that when you're in the heat of the moment in

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Speaker 2: a crowd, you loose yourself. Yes, And I was fascinated by,

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Speaker 2: who are these nice human beings that live next door

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Speaker 2: to you that lost themselves on that day and just

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Speaker 2: did really stupid and terrible things. So I picked the

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Speaker 2: people in the film for very specific reasons. For example,

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Speaker 2: there was someone who was accused of pooping in the hallway,

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Speaker 2: so I went to go talk to him, and his

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Speaker 2: excuse was he had a medical disorder, and he showed

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Speaker 2: me the scars and there was a whole backstory. But

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Speaker 2: his explanation was I couldn't find a bathroom. Okay, that's a.

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Speaker 1: While I was rioting. I have you know, I have Celiac,

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Speaker 1: and I had to shit in the Capitol. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: an excuse.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now I know now speaking of shitting. Since we're

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Speaker 2: on the subject, I feel like I need to just

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Speaker 2: go back to the beginning and tell you something. Since

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Speaker 2: I saw you last, as you know, since we've both

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Speaker 2: worked with Sheila and Evans. She was my mentor and

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Speaker 2: Yoda at HBO. We did fourteen films together.

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Speaker 1: And mine in any way, in every way, I just

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Speaker 1: adore her. Right.

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Speaker 2: So when we were making films, we made a lot

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Speaker 2: of films. I made a film called Meet the Donors

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Speaker 2: that was about going to the homes of the billionaires

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Speaker 2: that are funding our democracy to say why do you

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Speaker 2: give so much money to these political candidates. That's an

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Speaker 2: example of a movie. And Sheila said to me, we

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Speaker 2: don't shit on people's couches. We walk in, We ask

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Speaker 2: them the questions, We hear what they have to say.

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Speaker 2: We don't start a fight and get thrown out. That's

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Speaker 2: not who you are. That's Michael Moore. There is someone

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Speaker 2: out there that makes those kinds of movies. That's not

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Speaker 2: who you are. You're a lady. Your job is to

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Speaker 2: walk in, ask all the questions you have, accept what

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Speaker 2: they say. Maybe they're lying to you, maybe they're exaggerating,

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Speaker 2: or who cares. You just accept what they tell you,

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Speaker 2: and you leave polite, and you make friends, and you

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Speaker 2: invite them to the premiere, and you try to understand.

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Speaker 2: You don't go into the edit room and then destroy

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Speaker 2: them and make them look silly and say, these are

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Speaker 2: the assholes that are buying our democracy. You accept what

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Speaker 2: they tell you. That's the most anyone has ever gotten

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Speaker 2: out of these billionaires that are funding them atocracy. I'm

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Speaker 2: curious what they have to say. Let's hear what they

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Speaker 2: have to say, and let's give them the benefits of

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Speaker 2: the doubt. So that's the ethos. Just so you understand

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Speaker 2: how I go into the process of these films. So

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Speaker 2: I didn't walk into anyone's house with the intention of

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Speaker 2: shitting on their couch.

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Speaker 1: However, you walked in to somebody's living room who said

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Speaker 1: they wanted to kill your mom, Oh for sure. While

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Speaker 1: they were riding, while they were breaking down the signs

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Speaker 1: of our door, well, they were chanting looking for her.

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Speaker 1: That that's pretty intense, Alex. That's not like, Oh, I

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Speaker 1: just was curious that these are the people who wanted

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Speaker 1: to kill your mom and Pence that day for.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and I more than anyone I think you have

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Speaker 2: on your podcast, am qualified to say. And they mean

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Speaker 2: it because you know what happened to my dad. He

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Speaker 2: almost got killed by one of these crazies. So I

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Speaker 2: know it's real. I don't have any delusions about oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, oh they're just nice people who got lost

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Speaker 2: in the moment. They mean it. This local violence in

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Speaker 2: America is real. Ask Steve Scalise, ask Paul Polusi, they

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Speaker 2: will tell you it is real. So yes, that still

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Speaker 2: I've always had this documentary desire to try to understand

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Speaker 2: even though it's come so close. It's comes so close,

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Speaker 2: but I still am left with this. I just I'm

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Speaker 2: just I'm just trying to make some peace. This is

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Speaker 2: some kind of therapy. It's some kind of coping mechanism. Yes,

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Speaker 2: obviously I never told my parents I was making this movie,

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Speaker 2: and then when it came out, they said, My mother

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Speaker 2: said to me, this is probably just your coping mesicanism.

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Speaker 2: This is probably what you do to heal. This is

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Speaker 2: you need to talk to people. Instead of going to

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Speaker 2: a therapist. You actually just go to the house of

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Speaker 2: the people that wanted to kill me to ask them

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Speaker 2: to their face, because that's the only way. Some old

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Speaker 2: guy on the couch isn't going to give me any answer.

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Speaker 2: But at least the white supremacist who actually attempted murder

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Speaker 2: if someone else and went to jail for that may

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Speaker 2: give you some answer that helps you understand. Maybe not.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I found watching it how many of the people needed

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Speaker 1: mental health assessments. Like the first guy with the cats

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Speaker 1: with the long hair, like I thought, is he on

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Speaker 1: the autism spectrum? Is he like he seemed to kind

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Speaker 1: of not really be fully there? Is that? Did you

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Speaker 1: find that? Or no?

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Speaker 2: I hate to break this to you, but everyone in

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Speaker 2: the movie are the most sane people I met. I talked,

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Speaker 2: oh my dozens more that didn't make the cut because

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Speaker 2: I was afraid that they weren't mentally capable of understanding

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Speaker 2: that they were going to be on TV and that

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Speaker 2: this was going to be So these are actually the

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Speaker 2: sane ones, believe it or not, These are the best

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Speaker 2: I actually I decided I did that in the edit room.

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Speaker 2: As you know, since you're a Doctumaryville maker. Yes, everyone

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Speaker 2: gets made in an edit room. So editor, we wake

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Speaker 2: up My editor, Jeff Barts. He's been editing for He

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Speaker 2: edited Pumping Iron. He's eight years old. He's been doing

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Speaker 2: this forever. In the morning, we would walk in together

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Speaker 2: and he'd say, who do you want him to be?

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Speaker 2: When we were making the edits, are we making him

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Speaker 2: a extreme white supremacist Nazi loser or are we going

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Speaker 2: to be charitable and let him present his story of

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Speaker 2: why he had to join a white supremacy gang and

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Speaker 2: give him some benefit of the doubt. That was a

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Speaker 2: mathematical formula we had to play with every day, and

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Speaker 2: in that process, a lot of people got edited out

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Speaker 2: because we had to say, honestly, do you think this

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Speaker 2: person is mentally fit to be in a documentary on HBO?

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Speaker 1: And you know that young boy, he looks young, who

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Speaker 1: wants a black wife and a biracial family, who was

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Speaker 1: a porn star and who bit there's a need for

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Speaker 1: some kind of medication and or intensive therapy intervention like

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Speaker 1: that one. I was like, well, now come on, everybody,

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Speaker 1: is there's some of the things that this person is

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Speaker 1: saying is indicative of severe trauma untreated.

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Speaker 2: For sure. I thought of it. I kept saying, this

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Speaker 2: is a mosaic of broken America. It just gives you

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Speaker 2: a picture of how broken America is right now, because

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Speaker 2: every time I left someone's house, I would think, was

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Speaker 2: that a really mentally ill person? Or was that just

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Speaker 2: a Trump loving idiot who got carried away on that day.

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Speaker 2: I still some nights I stay up wondering, deep deep

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Speaker 2: down if a lot of those people, Yeah, I who

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Speaker 2: say they all need some real serious medical attention.

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Speaker 1: But that's the populace of the country. And that's what's happening.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we have all these horrific shootings and

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Speaker 1: what and oh they said he had he was hearing voices.

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Speaker 1: You don't say, where's the help for the mentally ill people?

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Speaker 1: It's like there, it's like an epidemic or something that.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is all trauma related. It's all trauma.

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Speaker 1: And then you go back to your trauma as a child.

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Speaker 1: And you know, here I am, at sixty one years old,

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Speaker 1: you know, still molding the clay of your childhood trauma

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Speaker 1: into some you know usable you know, piece of art

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Speaker 1: or something.

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Speaker 2: Look how well you've done with that.

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Speaker 1: It's work, yes, but yes, it's working for me.

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Speaker 2: For you. You've turned it into something. For them, they

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Speaker 2: turned it into a criminal record for breaking into the capitol,

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Speaker 2: and none of.

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Speaker 1: Them felt blame or felt you know, one guy said

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Speaker 1: he felt lied to, but the vast majority said, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't blame him. It was my decision and I

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Speaker 1: now have to pay for my crime. And that's when

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Speaker 1: I thought, I wonder if that guy on the spectrum,

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Speaker 1: you know, very clear, black and white thinking, very you know,

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Speaker 1: Or how about the ones who said I wasn't really

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Speaker 1: I was just there and my uncle drove me and

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Speaker 1: I just you know, picked up the Pelosi sign. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you know, like what happened? How did that

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Speaker 1: go down? How does that happen that you just happen

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Speaker 1: to be walking around with your uncle and people have

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Speaker 1: guns and you know, masks, and or you're in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a riot and you find time to take

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Speaker 1: a post to selfie. You know, I don't understand.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to end well for that young lady.

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Speaker 2: She was a farm girl from Missouri who never left Missouri.

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Speaker 2: She just wanted to get out of town. She was bored,

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Speaker 2: she had nothing going on in her life. She stole

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Speaker 2: that sign. She got thirty days in jail for that.

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Speaker 2: But then dot dot Dot the kind of shame that

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Speaker 2: that crime put on her psyche when she went on

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Speaker 2: the internet in this edition, were all making fun of her.

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Speaker 2: Led her to, you know, to drink and drive and

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Speaker 2: black out and kill a mother and almost kill a father,

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Speaker 2: and she's going to be spending a lot of her

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Speaker 2: life in jail.

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Speaker 1: The rest of her life.

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Speaker 2: In January sixth really ruined her life, completely ruined her life.

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Speaker 2: So right, some people they went into the building. You know,

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Speaker 2: the gay Obama voter, remember him, He served ninety days,

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Speaker 2: lived happily ever after. He right now is trying to

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Speaker 2: stand up comedy in Greenwich Village. He's fine. It didn't

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Speaker 2: really do great damage to his life. But the other

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Speaker 2: woman that you're talking about from Missouri, she is going

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Speaker 2: to it that one day did ruin her whole life.

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Speaker 1: Now, how did your sixteen year old recover from being

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Speaker 1: that close to the trauma that he was prescient enough

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Speaker 1: to alert you to.

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Speaker 2: He told me that he would never speak to me

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Speaker 2: again if I went to talk to any of these people.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think he.

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Speaker 1: Likes He's probably afraid, right. Afraid is a fear might

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Speaker 1: be the first thing there.

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Speaker 2: Well, his name is Paul, and my father's name is Paul,

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Speaker 2: So I think he has a legitimate reason to be afraid.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's all just hocus focus, you know,

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Speaker 2: crazy shit people say on the internet. I think it's real.

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Speaker 1: So I think he was afraid for you, not afraid

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Speaker 1: for himself.

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Speaker 2: I think there is a really legitimate argument that these

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Speaker 2: people do not deserve a microphone. Right, That would be

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Speaker 2: the NPR take of this movie. How dare you give

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Speaker 2: the microphone to these haters? Why are you even giving

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Speaker 2: them any airtime? And my answer is, well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: all of these people pled guilty, which means they admitted

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Speaker 2: to what they did. They didn't go to court and

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Speaker 2: say no, no, no, they didn't fight it. They pled guilty.

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Speaker 2: A majority of them were misdemeanors, So six months in jail,

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Speaker 2: eight months in jail, but still only a misdemeanor. And

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Speaker 2: then they are now out and available. They're allowed to

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Speaker 2: go vote in the next election and participate in the

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Speaker 2: next election. And if they cared enough to get off

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Speaker 2: their couch and drive all the way across the country

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Speaker 2: to go storm the capitol, what have you done lately?

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Speaker 2: You know, I mean personally, like there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: protests going on where I live in Greenwich Village. Right now,

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Speaker 2: I just ride and lock the door. I don't even

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Speaker 2: want to get involved. I don't want to take a side.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to fight in my backyard. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm just right. I don't have the stomach for this,

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Speaker 2: you know, political activity.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, But yet you have the stomach for you know,

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Speaker 1: facing people that many on the liberal left, which I

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Speaker 1: consider myself a part of, you know, would not be

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Speaker 1: able to find common ground with right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, my whole philosophy was. On the very first

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Speaker 2: morning that I started filming, I went to the Lincoln

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Speaker 2: Memorial with the very first person that's in the film.

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Speaker 2: His name is Paul Hodgkins and his lawyer, Patrick Leduke.

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Speaker 2: And Patrick was explaining to me that, you know, Lincoln's

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Speaker 2: second inaugural, the walls are on the words are on

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Speaker 2: the wall of the Lincoln omar charity towards all, malice,

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Speaker 2: towards none. You don't have to You have to try

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Speaker 2: to make forgiveness. I should say, you have to try

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Speaker 2: to make forgiveness because they are your neighbors and they

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Speaker 2: are ruling in the next election. People come out because

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Speaker 2: they hate, they don't come out because they love I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm Obama. They came out because they loved Obama. But

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Speaker 2: usually I think in the every four years, HBO makes

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Speaker 2: me do an election film. Okay, so I'm back on

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Speaker 2: the trail already filming, you know, talking to voters, and

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Speaker 2: I find that the people who hate are really inspired,

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Speaker 2: and they really get off their couch and they really

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Speaker 2: show up. And I don't know. I mean when they

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Speaker 2: give this argument, this is one of the most often

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Speaker 2: heard arguments, which is the election was stolen in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: I know the election was stolen in twenty twenty. Well

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Speaker 2: how can you prove it? Well, because I mean, look

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Speaker 2: how many people show up for Trump and Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: He didn't get those kinds of crowds. And you're saying, well,

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Speaker 2: they voted for him, but they don't love him so

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Speaker 2: much that they're going to go storm the capitol for him.

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Speaker 2: They yeah, they may have voted for him, but doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean they love him that much. So I think people

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Speaker 2: show up because they feel hate in their soul and

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Speaker 2: that's what inspires them to go wait in long lines.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's what he triggers in people.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, the you know, the hatred that lives in

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Speaker 1: the corners of our souls. Right there's there's tiny little

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Speaker 1: paces of being human that you can't even face. And

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Speaker 1: and and here it is more with Alexandra Pelosi right

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Speaker 1: after this. You know, you want to reach people and

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Speaker 1: make them remember when it wasn't so chaotic, pre internet.

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Speaker 1: I think the Internet has been amazing, and it's been

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Speaker 1: so horrific that it's hard to even quantify it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's for sure destroyed the civil discourse. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you can't have a conversation anymore because everybody's in their

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Speaker 2: own little bubble getting fed exactly what they want to hear.

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Speaker 2: And so it's impossible to have conversations with people because

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Speaker 2: they don't have facts. That's the most frustrating part I

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Speaker 2: interview people Like this week, I've been at the courthouse.

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Speaker 2: You know, Trump's at the courthouse in New York, and

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Speaker 2: I go down and I talk to his supporters the

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Speaker 2: show outside and I say, if he goes to jail,

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Speaker 2: are you still going to support him? And they say,

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Speaker 2: of course, you're still gonna vote for me if he's

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Speaker 2: in jail, of course, But what about January sixth? The

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Speaker 2: whole insurrection. He didn't do anything. Well, he said, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna march up there with you. He never said that. See,

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Speaker 2: he said that I can prove it. I play it

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Speaker 2: for them, and then they either say, oh oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I forgot or I never saw that. It reminds me

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Speaker 2: of the point that I was making that Jason the

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Speaker 2: day Obama voter in my film. His husband watched my

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Speaker 2: movie and said, after I never saw any of that

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Speaker 2: violence on January sixth. Wait, it's almost two years later

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Speaker 2: and you never saw any video of any violence on

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Speaker 2: January sixth. That means you live in a totally different

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Speaker 2: media ecosystem that.

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Speaker 1: Only well, yeah, they live in the ecosystem that says

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Speaker 1: it was a normal tourist day. You know, right, Can

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Speaker 1: I ask you what is the this year's HBO election

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Speaker 1: movie going to feature? Is it going to be similar?

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Speaker 2: It's a really really unpredictable. That's the thing of a documentary.

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Speaker 2: You just never know what you going to get, You

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Speaker 2: know what documentaries are just like children, Yeah, brought through

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Speaker 2: get when they're little. They're cute and you think, take

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Speaker 2: that home with me. You have no idea what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen overnight? Is forever in politics, So anything going

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Speaker 2: to happen and the next correct. So who knows where

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Speaker 2: this is gonna take us. One could be in jail,

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Speaker 2: one could be who knows. So, yeah, it hasn't been

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Speaker 2: He hasn't been written yet. It hasn't even we haven't

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Speaker 2: even started writing it. I thought that Mike Pence was

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Speaker 2: going to do better than he did. So this is

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Speaker 2: one of those unpredicted were in a moment in American

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Speaker 2: politics where it's hard to predict because you think common

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Speaker 2: sense would dictate there would be some market for someone

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Speaker 2: like a Mike Pence. I would have guessed that he

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Speaker 2: would have been a good candidate. But shows how much

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Speaker 2: I know everything.

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Speaker 1: I think that all the Trump people, like you know,

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Speaker 1: hate him, and so you know that took a large

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Speaker 1: swath of the Republican Party or former republic Party, right.

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Speaker 1: I think he's seen as a weak man who didn't

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Speaker 1: do the right thing, and you know, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why he would want to run after they

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Speaker 1: were shouting, hang Mike Pence. I don't know why he

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Speaker 1: would choose to try to be president. But I wasn't

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Speaker 1: surprised that he didn't do well. Okay, So I thought

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Speaker 1: he didn't have any gravitas, you know, they kind of

433
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 1: emasculated him.

434
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: He had an event in New Hampshire the night that

435
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: my show was airing. I wanted to go, but I

436
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: couldn't go because my show is airing on HBO. But

437
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 2: he had an event with one of the Jan sixers,

438
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: like an event hosted by a Jan sixer, someone who

439
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: went and you know, served time for Jan six was

440
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 2: hosting an event sponsoring the event, and Mike Pence spoke

441
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: and I thought, this is a new, complicated part of

442
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 2: the dynamic. You're hanging out with the guy who actually

443
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 2: came to hang you, right, that's a person who doesn't

444
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: know who he is. So if you read it like that,

445
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: you'd say, yeah, maybe it was doomed.

446
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I mean I think that, you know,

447
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: seeing the hanging gallows there and it was like it

448
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: was like I couldn't even believe what was happening. What

449
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: would have happened if God forbid, they got your mother

450
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: or him? What would have happened? Would calmer minds have prevailed?

451
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't think. So.

452
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 2: That was a.

453
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: Crazy group of agitated, riled up lied to people, right.

454
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: But so this is the question you asked, This is

455
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: the eternal question, and I have lost a lot of

456
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: sleep on this question. Clearly there were different levels of participation.

457
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: They're distincts. The Department of Justice has arrested, you know,

458
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: over eleven hundred people have been arrested. About three thousand

459
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: went into the building, not even half of them and arrested.

460
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: There are plenty of people that went into the building

461
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: and never got charged with anything. You know, the FBI

462
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 2: showed up at their house, talked to them, let them go.

463
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: There were clearly militant organizations, the Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers,

464
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: who had communication amongst themselves about what they were planning

465
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: to do that day. And we know that. And the

466
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 2: leader of the Proud Boys sent a message on telegram

467
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: to all of us brothers saying, We're going to get

468
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: the Normies to burn the city to ash today. And

469
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: those are the people in my movie, the Normies, the

470
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: normal people that they were, They were part of the chorus.

471
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: They weren't in on the plan that the Proud Boys

472
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 2: and the Oath Keepers met in that parking lot the

473
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: night before to coordinate. So when you ask yourself that

474
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: question of what would have happened. If they've actually ran

475
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 2: into Mike Pants with it actually hung him. I have

476
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 2: to believe that there were enough normal people in the

477
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: crowd that would have prevented something really, really terrible. But

478
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: maybe that's just wishful thinking.

479
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we can't allow ourselves. It was bad

480
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: enough as it was, and you know, cops getting hurt,

481
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: and I mean it was bad enough as it was.

482
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: We can't even imagine that next level. And you know,

483
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: it's really a terrifying concept. And I was so moved

484
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: by the one guy who said, I can show you

485
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: clips of how there were Antifat people in there, right

486
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: And he starts with them looking for your mother or

487
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: breaking down her doors, going to her office, and you said, listen,

488
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: I don't want to hate you, I want to love you.

489
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: I thought that's the whole message of the movie. You

490
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: tried very hard and you got there, Alex. You did

491
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: not punt and judge. You showed up, looked them in

492
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: the eye, shook a hand, made relationships. Every one of

493
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: those people trusted you. Every one of those people was

494
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: open and honest, and you know you're a Pelosi. That's

495
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: big for them too. Imagine somebody saying to you, did

496
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: do you want to kill my mother? That's heavy?

497
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 2: You know, it is heavy. Gosh, you're making me, You're

498
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: making me reconsidered. Maybe maybe this wasn't such a good

499
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: idea after all.

500
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: No, I think it should. I think everyone should see it,

501
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: because you can't have a big brush that you paint

502
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: with and go, Okay, I'm just going to black and

503
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: white my life. And these are the good people and

504
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: these are the bad people. And you know, Rumy says

505
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: out in the field behind what's right and wrong, I'll

506
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: meet you there, right Like, I think everyone should watch

507
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: it because we can't view each other as such cartoon characters.

508
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: We have to see the humanity in each other. And

509
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: you found the humanity and even the guy with proud

510
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: boy on his head with all those children and the

511
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: wife there trying, you know, not to inflame the situation

512
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: after his transphobic comment about his child, right you know,

513
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: and she's like, no, no, don't say that, because we're

514
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: not like that. People think we're like that, but we're

515
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: not like that, you know.

516
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: Right, Well. The reason why I included him, remember I

517
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: told you I intentionally in the edit room, we had

518
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: a lot of choices to make of who was going

519
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: to make the cut. And the reason Billy Kannuts and

520
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: the rapper Playboy why he made the cut was because

521
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: he sings these terrible songs like f Joe Biden, F

522
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: Joe Biden. That's his whole thing, catchy little songs that

523
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: are all pretty like it sounds pretty hateful, but they're songs, okay.

524
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: And when he went to court for sentencing, the judge

525
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: just was reviewing the song lyrics and saying, well, you

526
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: said Nancy don't want us in her office, Well, he

527
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: didn't go into Nancy's office or and these are songs

528
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: that he sang after January sixth, He didn't sing them

529
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: before to get people inspired and riled up. He sang

530
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: things like, well, just kind of anti Biden anthems right now.

531
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: The judge was calling it hate speech and put him

532
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: in jail for six months in a federal penitentiary, the

533
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: same federal penitentiary where the unibomber is or what wow.

534
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: And so it was interesting to meet. Now criminal history

535
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: has to weigh in there. He had a criminal history

536
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: been in a jail, so they do factor that into

537
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: your equation. But if you take the Criminal Code truspassing

538
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: that he was charged with, and you take that code

539
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: and type it into the Department of Justice website and

540
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: you look at the pages and pages of people that

541
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: were charged with it. There are plenty of people that

542
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: did exactly what he did on January sixth, and they

543
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: got probation, house arrest, or you know, nothing at all.

544
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: And so it was interesting that he got six months

545
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: in a real lockdown situation because he sang really anti

546
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: Biden songs.

547
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: And were they able to appeal that. No.

548
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: I mean, he went and he served as time. He

549
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: said it was the worst six months of his life,

550
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: and it was really, you know, just hard, hard time,

551
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: but for free passing. So I think, you know, it

552
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: reminds me of sort of like those ACLU cases of

553
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: like going into Guantanamo Bay and saying, yeah, we know,

554
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: you're probably a terrible person who's friends with Osama bin Laden,

555
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: but you still shouldn't have been waterboarded. I'm not excusing

556
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: anyone who marched into the Capitol. Lindsey Graham would tell

557
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: you that everybody who walked into that building that day

558
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: is a domestic terrorist. So let's take him. Let's take

559
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: his standard, right, Okay, they're all the mess here. Now

560
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,719
Speaker 2: let's go from there and say, now, what did you

561
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: actually do? Did you break anything, did you steal anything?

562
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: It was the most filmed photographed crime scene in American history,

563
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: so we know what everybody did. They have a million

564
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: camera angles of every person that walked in that building,

565
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: so we know what they did. So the people in

566
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: my film, they walked in, they walked out. One stolen

567
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: is a Pelosi sign. Once stole a book. But that's

568
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: the extent of the crimes they committed, and they went

569
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: to jail for that. And you shouldn't walk into the

570
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: capitol and steal a book, and you shouldn't walk into

571
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: the Capitol and steal Nancy Pelosi's signed. But at the

572
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: same time, you have to remember these were called misdemeanors

573
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: in the core right, And to me, a misdemeanor, I

574
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: mean I forgive. I have friends that have committed misdemeanors

575
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: and I have forgiven them for that. So the conversation

576
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: has to go somewhere from there, right, right, right, just

577
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: say they all committed misdemeanors, they're all domestic terrorists.

578
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: They all deserve the same treatment, right because they were

579
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: the ones who walked in, who was with their uncle,

580
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: And I mean that you told it already about the accident,

581
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: that tragic you know, life of that girl forever changed,

582
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: and all of these people, it profoundly changed their life,

583
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: but it did not necessarily change their politics exactly.

584
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: You nailed it. And they're probably going to be much

585
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: more involved and activated in the next election than I am.

586
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: So I mean one hundred percent than I am, but

587
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: more than my neighbors, will, you know, And so you

588
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: have to think they're really you know, they've been radicalized,

589
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: they've gone to jail for their beliefs. They are true believers,

590
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: and you know, I know that we talked after Bill Maher.

591
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: Bill Maher's whole point when I did the show, he said,

592
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: there's something noble about what they did because they believe

593
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: in some of their true believers. They actually went and

594
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: followed through with their political conviction. And I didn't want

595
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: to start a fight with him because you know, we've

596
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: been friends a long time and it's his show, and

597
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: you never you know, I don't go into shit on

598
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: his couch, you know, correct. But what I wanted to say,

599
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 2: you know, it's like that what you wanted to say

600
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: to him was what I wanted to say is it

601
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: was based on a lie. It's one thing to have convictions.

602
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: You can believe something in your core and go fight

603
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 2: for it. But what if everything you believe is based

604
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 2: on a lie. Their belief is the election was stolen, right,

605
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: But that's a lie. It wasn't.

606
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: That's a lot that's.

607
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: Been proven in Quirkys after, quirk is after, but they

608
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: will never believe that. So that's the frustrating part.

609
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: And that's why you almost need deep programmers who get

610
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: people out of scientology, who get people out of other

611
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: cults that have a real hold on the mindset of

612
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: people to the point where they start to depersonalize and

613
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: become just a member of this thing. I had a

614
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: question last week here on the show. People can leave

615
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: a message for a question or whatever, and this guy,

616
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: Preston so Sweet was saying that and his mother were

617
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 1: the best friends, and they were both, you know, grew

618
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: up liberal and progressive, and then she kind of took

619
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: a right turn a couple of years ago, and like

620
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: Fox News, you know, neppt and programmed his mother and

621
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: she's been gone. You know. Maga loss is something that

622
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: families have to talk about because it really happens. And

623
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: then he was saying, as a gay man that he

624
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: gets to the point where, well, can I continue doing

625
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: this when I know that my mother is voting and

626
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: living everything against who I am and what I believe,

627
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: you know, and it's very sad cults do that they

628
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: separate from.

629
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: Maybe the solution is we should make everybody switch their

630
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 2: social media feed the week before Thanksgiving, and you know,

631
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: everybody who lives on you know, their right wing ecosystem

632
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: should be switched over to a different feed, and then

633
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: we should be switched over to their feed so that

634
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: we can understand the way they think. Because I do

635
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: believe when Jason Riddle's husband said I'd never seen violence

636
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: on January sixth, I thought, bless his heart, he genuinely

637
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: had a totally different version of realcy that he was

638
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: living in. And his husband is in jail.

639
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,479
Speaker 1: Well, and that's you know, and that's also willful blindness, right,

640
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: Willful blindness I think is going on right now, big

641
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: time all over the world where what you see and

642
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: what you're experiencing and what you're ingesting people are saying

643
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: is not happening. And that happened with Trump. That happened

644
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: with Trump, And I don't think that mass media has

645
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: the ability to sway millions of Americans' views anymore. I

646
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: think that people see them as biased and with their

647
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: own self interest. And you know, I don't think it

648
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: is the fourth estate anymore that it used to be

649
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: when we were growing up, when Walter Cronkite said something

650
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: and then the Vietnam War stopped. You know, who has

651
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: that power now to say wake up Trump? Culters Rosiodon,

652
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: Oh what are you kidding me? I have a little podcast.

653
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 1: I can't deal with the pressure of life. Is there

654
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: a way to come together?

655
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do you think there's a way that

656
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: come together?

657
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: I think with shows like Yours and stuff like Truth

658
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: going on and people telling truth and speaking truth to

659
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: power that you know, we have to embrace each other,

660
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: these two halves of the same hole. We have to

661
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: find a way to come to mutual respect. And it's

662
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 1: very hard after all of the stuff that went down,

663
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, Trump wise, very very hard. It's like, you know,

664
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: he's like Net and Yahoo for America. Trump.

665
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: You know, some people better wake up because they may

666
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: be going straight diving straight into another Trump presidency, right.

667
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: Now correct, that's what's happening.

668
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: Okay, Well this is really up uplifting.

669
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: Sorry, sorry I took my effects or I'm supposed to

670
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: be happier than I am.

671
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: But I mean, it's really hard not to be sad

672
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: about America right now.

673
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: It's hard. It's terrible. We got to get this country

674
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: some infrastructure right, especially for mental health, I think. And

675
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: maybe no more guns please. Okay, Rosie for president, that's next.

676
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: But I think that you're a great filmmaker, and I

677
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: think that you've done a lot for all of us

678
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: by releasing all those docs with Sheila and this one

679
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: The Insurrectionist next Door on Max also known as HBO,

680
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 1: and you can get it on Amazon Prime too.

681
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if stuff like that, Yes you can.

682
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: I looked it up today. I was watching it again.

683
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: But it's great to talk to you. Tell your family,

684
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 1: I said, hello, I'm very sorry what happened to your dad.

685
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: I think your mom rocks the boat. And I think

686
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: you're pretty great too. And I hope that one of

687
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: my kids grows up to be just like you with

688
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: a camera somewhere telling the track.

689
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome, that's really sweet. I think my kids want

690
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: to grow up to be anything but me.

691
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand, same with mine. No interest. I'm like,

692
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: come on, we could go on tour gypsy. They're like,

693
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't sing. Oh jeez. We'll be back in a

694
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: moment with questions from you are wonderful listeners right after this.

695
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I know it was

696
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: kind of intense and different than normal, but you know what,

697
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: hasn't been a good couple of weeks for mommy, but

698
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: I'm doing my best. I'm getting through it. I hope

699
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: you enjoyed it, and I hope that you are too

700
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: doing Okay, Okay, we got some love listeners who left

701
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: a voice memo and we're going to answer them right now.

702
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: Hit it.

703
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 3: Hello, Rosie. This is Michael from outside Chicago. My three

704
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: year old son is currently obsessed with the movie Tarzan

705
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 3: and his favorite song is Trashing the Camp. He does

706
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: all of the sound effects to start the song and

707
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 3: all of the gibberish sounds that go with it, and

708
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: it's truly a joy watching him sing along, especially since

709
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 3: he's been battling a chronic illness that is not outwardly

710
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 3: noticeable by people who meet him, but has definitely been

711
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 3: stressful for our entire family to be dealing with and

712
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: so seeing the joy on his face when he sings

713
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: along with that song certainly something that helps us to

714
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 3: get through it. And so I kind of had had

715
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 3: two questions on that topic. One was if you had

716
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 3: any fond memories of recording that song that you wanted

717
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 3: to share about what that was like for you. And

718
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: the second one was if you had any advice for

719
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 3: parents of young children who are going through health issues

720
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: and how you cope with it and how you make

721
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: it through. Thank you for all you do. Been a

722
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 3: fan since when you were after school programming that I

723
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: would watch with my mom who since passed, and definitely

724
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: have been enjoying everything that you do. So thank you

725
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: for doing this podcast and I look forward to hearing

726
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 3: whatever you have to share. Thanks well.

727
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: Thank you Michael. What a beautiful note, not note, I

728
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: guess voice message, but beautiful sentiments. And I'm sorry about

729
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: your child's struggling with some unseen illness. Sometimes it's harder

730
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: when a child is diagnosed with something that is not

731
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: is easily indicative of hardship, you know, so people expect

732
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: your child maybe who's three to act accordingly, but there

733
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: could be other challenges, and it sounds like there are

734
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: that you're facing. You just got to do it day

735
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: by day, honey, That's what I have to say. It's

736
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: one day at a time, it's one step forward at

737
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: a time, and it's love, love, love, love love, you know.

738
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: And it's very very unnerving as a parent to think

739
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: that you need to have all the answers or you

740
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: need to know exactly what it's going to be in

741
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: life for your children, when frankly, nobody can do that.

742
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: You know, all we can do is provide security, safety, life,

743
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: and a sense of being seen. So it sounds like

744
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing, Michael. It sounds like you're

745
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: right on it. And I'm sorry for the pain that

746
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: you and your family are in and I wish the

747
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: best to your little boy now. When we were filming

748
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: that movie, Phil Collins came in and he was the

749
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: musical director and he had written that and so you know,

750
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 1: after my first take, he said, Rosie, you're a little

751
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: underne You're not in the pocket. And I had no

752
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: idea what he meant. I was like, okay, all right,

753
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: let me try it again. Eli think you and I

754
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: don't think I ever got it right, but we recorded

755
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: it a bunch of times and we just kind of

756
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: kept adding different lines of shoe banoo, baboo, shaba shuba abamboobiah.

757
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: You know. We kept doing that over and over and over,

758
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 1: and then Phil, who is a genius, laid it all

759
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: out and it became that that beautiful song and a

760
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: lot of kids, I think relate to that little song.

761
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: And I've told this story before, but my son, who

762
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: is now twenty eight years old, when he was your

763
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: son's age, the movie opened and he was so young.

764
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm not going to explain this to him.

765
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: You know that I'm a voice in this, He's not

766
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,439
Speaker 1: going to know that. So we went to the movie

767
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: theater and about halfway through the movie, he stood up

768
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: on the chair and scream that monkey's my mama. So

769
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: you know, kids, no kids, no. Much love to you

770
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: Michael and your family, and thank you so much for

771
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: listening and for being a part of this Onward podcast.

772
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: We got one more now from someone named Frank. They

773
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: tell me, let's hear.

774
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 4: It, Hi, Rosie, my name is Frank. And before it

775
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 4: get to my question, I just wanted to say thank

776
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 4: you so much for being yourself over the years, You're

777
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 4: giving myself and I'm sure many other people confidence and

778
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 4: joy and just wanted to say big thank you to that.

779
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 4: It means a lot. Well, my question for you is

780
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 4: actually related to niece Spears's new memoir that she just released.

781
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 4: I know, over the years when you had your talk show,

782
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 4: you were really really kind and you had her on

783
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 4: a lot of times, and I remember watching those when

784
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 4: I was younger, and I really really enjoyed the interactions

785
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 4: between you guys because it was just so cute and innocent,

786
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 4: and over the years, even when you were on the view,

787
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 4: I remember when she finally got divorced from Kafed and

788
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 4: all that, you had confetti coming out of the sky

789
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 4: and it was it was so funny. But my question

790
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 4: is would you ever interview her, you know, being you

791
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 4: kind of had a relationship with her from the very beginning.

792
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 4: I know she said she has no interest in doing

793
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 4: interviews at the moment, but if the chance ever came,

794
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 4: would you want to interview her? And do you plan

795
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 4: on reading her memoir? I just got mine and it

796
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 4: is a really good read, So just wanted to know

797
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 4: your thoughts on that. Thanks Rosie, appreciate it.

798
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: Bye, Thank you, Frank, thank you for that lovely message. Yes,

799
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: I have her book. I have been reading it. I

800
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: love Britney Spears. But it was many years ago, and

801
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: she was so young, you know. What I saw was

802
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: like a teenager without any real guidance. She had a

803
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: woman who was maybe eight or ten years older than her,

804
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: but but you know, not enough to be parental in

805
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: my opinion, And that was the woman who was her guardian,

806
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: who was always with her at the show, and who

807
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: was always you know, in a parental role. And so

808
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: I just felt so strongly that she needed protection, you know,

809
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: and tried to support her in any way that I could.

810
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: Would I do an interview now if she wanted to,

811
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: I would do whatever she wanted. I would love to

812
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: go have a conversation with her. I would love to

813
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: have dinner with her. I would love to do it

814
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: privately or if she chose publicly. But I think the

815
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: book is is so far a beautiful and honest reflection

816
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: of a terrible, terrible time in her life, and I

817
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: think she needs compassion and understanding. And I love her,

818
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: I always have, I always will. Now having said that,

819
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: I haven't seen her or spoken to her since for

820
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: twenty three years, maybe even more. I have nothing but

821
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,879
Speaker 1: love and respect for her, nothing and I can't wait

822
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: to finish the book. This book is Britney Spears, and

823
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: it's what she wants to say, and I'm here for it.

824
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm totally here for it. Well, thank you, Frank and

825
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: thank you Michael, both of you for calling in and listen.

826
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: Next week's guest is a woman who I met on TikTok,

827
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: Alison Joseph. She's someone I started talking to online. Her

828
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 1: name on the TikTok is jew in the city, and

829
00:47:53,920 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: she is very articulate about representation of Jewish people in

830
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: the media, in the world. And you know, we converse

831
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: a lot through the DMS, and I said, hey, what

832
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 1: do you think. So it's a conversation that I think

833
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: we all need to have, especially before we join our

834
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: families on the holiday. You know, it's not a history

835
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: lesson at all. It's a conversation about compassion, love and humanity.

836
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: That's next week, Alison Joseph, right here on onward with me,

837
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:33,479
Speaker 1: Rosie O'Donnell, Peace, everyone, peace and onward. What other choice

838
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: do we have