1 00:00:00,860 --> 00:00:02,769 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: breaking news tonight. Gorgeous pastor's wife, Micah Miller spoke through 3 00:00:11,648 --> 00:00:17,340 Speaker 1: tears about abuse on Facebook, supporting victims of domestic violence. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,979 Speaker 1: Mica meets her future husband age just 15 and when 5 00:00:21,989 --> 00:00:24,729 Speaker 1: they marry, she takes on his five 6 00:00:24,829 --> 00:00:28,850 Speaker 1: the Children as her own. But cracks emerge in the marriage. 7 00:00:28,860 --> 00:00:33,299 Speaker 1: The marriage to a highly popular and charismatic South Carolina 8 00:00:33,310 --> 00:00:39,008 Speaker 1: pastor John Paul Miller. Then the shot discovery of Micah's 9 00:00:39,020 --> 00:00:43,089 Speaker 1: body in a remote state park, Mica shot dead 10 00:00:43,430 --> 00:00:47,220 Speaker 1: and in the last hours, a war of words explodes 11 00:00:47,229 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: as Micah's loved ones insist she did not commit suicide. 12 00:00:52,369 --> 00:00:56,669 Speaker 1: And also in the last hours, Pastor John Paul Miller 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,409 Speaker 1: booted from that Myrtle Beach church. What do they know that? 14 00:01:00,419 --> 00:01:06,470 Speaker 1: We don't know tonight, Mica's devastating 911 call. MP S. 15 00:01:06,639 --> 00:01:09,349 Speaker 1: Did the preacher have a girlfriend? 16 00:01:09,809 --> 00:01:13,889 Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. Thank 17 00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: you for being with us. I've had a lot of 18 00:01:16,730 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: women 19 00:01:18,099 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: that have reached out to me about situations of abuse 20 00:01:22,699 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: and 21 00:01:24,519 --> 00:01:27,190 Speaker 1: I just want to tell you what a lot of 22 00:01:27,199 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: people have told me uh lately and reminded me because 23 00:01:31,690 --> 00:01:34,519 Speaker 1: I think I forgot I knew. But I for I 24 00:01:34,540 --> 00:01:37,059 Speaker 1: pushed it in the back of my head. Um 25 00:01:37,980 --> 00:01:41,610 Speaker 1: just because of my situation. Um but you are the 26 00:01:41,620 --> 00:01:46,639 Speaker 1: bride of Christ. God hates divorce. But why, according to 27 00:01:46,650 --> 00:01:49,970 Speaker 1: everybody I've asked and the scriptures that I've found, it's 28 00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:51,199 Speaker 1: because it hurts people 29 00:01:52,550 --> 00:01:54,169 Speaker 1: but does abuse hurt people. 30 00:01:55,569 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: How do you think God feels about that? Having worked 31 00:01:58,410 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 1: uh for nine years on the hotline at the battered 32 00:02:01,290 --> 00:02:06,529 Speaker 1: women's center prosecuting during the day hearing her speaking like 33 00:02:06,540 --> 00:02:10,660 Speaker 1: that just it twists my heart. She referred to her 34 00:02:10,669 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: quote situation. What situation was that? 35 00:02:15,419 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 1: And why did this beautiful young wife end up dead, 36 00:02:20,850 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: shot dead in a remote state park. Joining me in 37 00:02:25,089 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: all star panel. But I I just want to establish 38 00:02:29,479 --> 00:02:35,149 Speaker 1: how did these two ever get together? Listen, John Paul 39 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,279 Speaker 1: Miller and Micah Miller are married in 2017 and at 40 00:02:38,288 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: the age of just 23 Micah Miller becomes stepmom to 41 00:02:41,529 --> 00:02:45,529 Speaker 1: John Paul Miller's five Children, JP Miller is considerably older 42 00:02:45,538 --> 00:02:48,259 Speaker 1: than his beautiful young wife, but they move forward like 43 00:02:48,270 --> 00:02:50,410 Speaker 1: a match made in heaven. At first, 44 00:02:50,649 --> 00:02:54,110 Speaker 1: like many marriages outside the home, everybody seems happy but 45 00:02:54,119 --> 00:02:57,589 Speaker 1: inside the home, not so much Micah Miller decides she 46 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,209 Speaker 1: has had enough of pastor John Paul Miller and files 47 00:03:00,220 --> 00:03:03,279 Speaker 1: for divorce. Joining me an all star panel to make 48 00:03:03,288 --> 00:03:05,410 Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. But first, I 49 00:03:05,419 --> 00:03:09,228 Speaker 1: want to go to former South Carolina news anchor in 50 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,789 Speaker 1: Myrtle Beach, investigative reporter 51 00:03:12,399 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: Michael Melly. Thank you for being with us. Number one, happy, 52 00:03:17,369 --> 00:03:21,410 Speaker 1: a happy marriage. What the three of them, Mica, the 53 00:03:21,419 --> 00:03:26,168 Speaker 1: pre the preacher and his girlfriend. Ok. That said, what 54 00:03:26,179 --> 00:03:30,570 Speaker 1: is her situation that she refers to on that very 55 00:03:30,580 --> 00:03:33,020 Speaker 1: haunting Facebook post, you know, 56 00:03:33,625 --> 00:03:37,164 Speaker 1: in this community too? We, we're just inundated with feelings 57 00:03:37,175 --> 00:03:41,264 Speaker 1: and suggestions, you know, ideas and passion on both sides 58 00:03:41,274 --> 00:03:45,514 Speaker 1: of this terrible, terrible case. Um You know, that family dynamic, 59 00:03:45,524 --> 00:03:49,514 Speaker 1: it really came to light lately, Mike o'malley. Listen, I 60 00:03:49,524 --> 00:03:54,794 Speaker 1: got one hour with you. No time for euphemisms, 61 00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:59,300 Speaker 1: no time to whitewash anything. What do you mean? The 62 00:03:59,309 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: family dynamic just came to light. What family dynamic? The girlfriend, 63 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:08,199 Speaker 1: the alleged abuse. What? Well, it's a combination. Uh Let's 64 00:04:08,210 --> 00:04:11,559 Speaker 1: start with the first Micah uh and JP as she 65 00:04:11,570 --> 00:04:14,369 Speaker 1: referred to him, to her siblings, her siblings put together 66 00:04:14,380 --> 00:04:17,100 Speaker 1: some affidavits in court in seeking uh 67 00:04:17,510 --> 00:04:21,529 Speaker 1: uh ownership uh for a state. Uh in those affidavits, 68 00:04:21,540 --> 00:04:24,329 Speaker 1: we've just kind of learned a little more detail um 69 00:04:24,470 --> 00:04:26,808 Speaker 1: in that her siblings say look, she told us in 70 00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:29,690 Speaker 1: no uncertain terms about the abuse she told us she 71 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:32,500 Speaker 1: feared for her life. Um It got so graphic and 72 00:04:32,510 --> 00:04:35,630 Speaker 1: detailed as to her saying to the effect if someone 73 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,250 Speaker 1: finds me with a bullet in my head, it was JP, 74 00:04:39,260 --> 00:04:42,850 Speaker 1: John Paul. These are statements that came out, Michael Maley. 75 00:04:42,859 --> 00:04:46,290 Speaker 1: Hold on just one moment. That is a lot of information. 76 00:04:46,709 --> 00:04:50,220 Speaker 1: I've found a lot of it in investigating the case. 77 00:04:50,359 --> 00:04:52,700 Speaker 1: But I want you to just, if you don't mind, 78 00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:56,419 Speaker 1: would you repeat what you just said that you learned 79 00:04:56,428 --> 00:04:59,909 Speaker 1: from reading affidavits by family? Um Just kind of looking 80 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:04,089 Speaker 1: through the affidavits uh submitted by Micah's family, her siblings 81 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:08,488 Speaker 1: to say the least. Um There's a mention um of abuse. 82 00:05:08,940 --> 00:05:11,850 Speaker 1: Um There's a mention of her fear for her safety 83 00:05:11,859 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: and it gets even so graphic and so detailed um 84 00:05:15,290 --> 00:05:20,390 Speaker 1: as a mention of quote to an extent here. If 85 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:23,079 Speaker 1: I end up dead with a bullet in my head, 86 00:05:23,299 --> 00:05:27,709 Speaker 1: it was JP who did it? JP, John Paul, her 87 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,890 Speaker 1: estranged husband. Um This is all coming out. Um In 88 00:05:31,899 --> 00:05:34,808 Speaker 1: addition to that, we're getting some more information from some 89 00:05:34,820 --> 00:05:35,558 Speaker 1: other siblings. 90 00:05:35,928 --> 00:05:39,829 Speaker 1: Talk about a March 11th incident where there was uh 91 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,109 Speaker 1: police reports filed for vandalism to her car, her tire shredded. 92 00:05:44,119 --> 00:05:47,809 Speaker 1: You're giving me so much information and I've got questions 93 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:50,589 Speaker 1: on every single thing that you just said with me. 94 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: You're hearing a very well known investigative reporter joining us 95 00:05:54,329 --> 00:05:57,429 Speaker 1: out of South Carolina, Michael Maley 96 00:05:58,170 --> 00:06:00,419 Speaker 1: with me, an all star panel, but I'm gonna introduce 97 00:06:00,428 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: them as we go along to Brian Foley, joining me, 98 00:06:03,329 --> 00:06:08,868 Speaker 1: board certified criminal defense attorney and former chief prosecutor Harris County, Texas. 99 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,829 Speaker 1: Never a lack of business there. And author of what 100 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:17,350 Speaker 1: prosecutors don't tell you, Brian Foley, how many cases did 101 00:06:17,359 --> 00:06:20,269 Speaker 1: you prosecute and, or defend 102 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,149 Speaker 1: where the dead woman says if I turn up dead. 103 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: He did it because I have had many and sure 104 00:06:29,010 --> 00:06:31,230 Speaker 1: enough by the time I got a hold of them, 105 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,450 Speaker 1: they were homicide cases, Brian Foley and domestic 106 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,369 Speaker 1: violence situations, we often have these warning uh signs, we 107 00:06:40,380 --> 00:06:43,220 Speaker 1: have uh victims that will reach out to friends or 108 00:06:43,230 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: family members and say, hey, if something happens to me, 109 00:06:46,369 --> 00:06:49,459 Speaker 1: it it wasn't me, it was, I'm not going to 110 00:06:49,470 --> 00:06:53,250 Speaker 1: commit suicide. Um And so apparently that did happen in 111 00:06:53,260 --> 00:06:56,618 Speaker 1: this case, but we've got some facts, you know, from 112 00:06:56,630 --> 00:06:58,969 Speaker 1: the police investigation that look like 113 00:06:59,260 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: uh it is a suicide. So if I'm J P's lawyer, 114 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 1: um I'd be saying, singing from the rooftops what the 115 00:07:05,690 --> 00:07:09,959 Speaker 1: police have reported. Well, yeah, but right now I'm curious 116 00:07:09,970 --> 00:07:13,279 Speaker 1: about what else the family has to say in sworn 117 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: statements and a legal word. 118 00:07:16,869 --> 00:07:21,450 Speaker 1: The so called preacher has not been officially charged. He 119 00:07:21,459 --> 00:07:23,820 Speaker 1: has not been named a po I person of interest 120 00:07:23,829 --> 00:07:26,970 Speaker 1: or a suspect. But I want to move forward with 121 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:30,570 Speaker 1: what Michael Maley, investigative reporter joining us out of South 122 00:07:30,579 --> 00:07:34,359 Speaker 1: Carolina is saying he's talking about 123 00:07:35,450 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: problems Mica had just before her death. Listen to our 124 00:07:41,649 --> 00:07:45,420 Speaker 1: friends at crime online. Four months after filing for divorce, 125 00:07:45,429 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: Micah Miller pulls back the divorce papers only to file 126 00:07:48,170 --> 00:07:51,290 Speaker 1: new divorce papers weeks later after filing for divorce a 127 00:07:51,299 --> 00:07:54,390 Speaker 1: second time, Micah Miller feels like she's being stalked. Her 128 00:07:54,399 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: tires are slashed twice in a week's time. Police discover 129 00:07:57,329 --> 00:07:57,950 Speaker 1: a tire deflator 130 00:07:58,029 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: has been used on the tires, taking her car to 131 00:08:00,170 --> 00:08:02,609 Speaker 1: the dealer for service. A mechanic finds a tracking device 132 00:08:02,619 --> 00:08:06,359 Speaker 1: placed in Micah Miller's car, flat tires tracking device. Micah 133 00:08:06,369 --> 00:08:08,950 Speaker 1: Miller tells police she's afraid for her life. She knows 134 00:08:08,959 --> 00:08:11,309 Speaker 1: who the suspect is but police tell her there's nothing 135 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,529 Speaker 1: they can do. Police file reports but no charges are filed. Ok. 136 00:08:14,540 --> 00:08:20,410 Speaker 1: Hold on a tracking device on her car. Her tires 137 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,958 Speaker 1: slashed. She calls police to report it. They show up 138 00:08:24,970 --> 00:08:27,859 Speaker 1: at a gas station where she is to get the 139 00:08:27,869 --> 00:08:31,799 Speaker 1: tracking device off her car. At that time, the alleged 140 00:08:31,809 --> 00:08:37,059 Speaker 1: stalker drives by very slowly in his Honda. She says 141 00:08:37,070 --> 00:08:40,239 Speaker 1: if you find me dead, he did it. The preacher 142 00:08:40,250 --> 00:08:43,380 Speaker 1: that's not a suspect. Her husband, 143 00:08:44,030 --> 00:08:47,489 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, uh to Scott Johnson joining me 144 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: forensic psychologist, author of when I love you turns violent 145 00:08:53,799 --> 00:08:59,429 Speaker 1: Scott Johnson. I mean, other than this initial ruling that 146 00:08:59,440 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: Mike 147 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:04,700 Speaker 1: committed suicide with a bullet to her head, which of course, 148 00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:08,729 Speaker 1: as we all know, is highly unlikely statistically that a 149 00:09:08,739 --> 00:09:13,340 Speaker 1: female of her age would shoot themselves in the face 150 00:09:13,349 --> 00:09:15,659 Speaker 1: that said Scott Johnson 151 00:09:16,190 --> 00:09:21,830 Speaker 1: textbook, stalking textbook, very textbook. And you know, she's describing 152 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,189 Speaker 1: incidents which sound crazy and yet there's evidence to back 153 00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:29,869 Speaker 1: uh back it up. And so when people get controlling 154 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,979 Speaker 1: and possessive and particular with narcissism and this person's position 155 00:09:34,989 --> 00:09:37,809 Speaker 1: with the, with the church and in the community, um 156 00:09:37,820 --> 00:09:41,049 Speaker 1: she's a piece of property that just will not be 157 00:09:41,135 --> 00:09:44,015 Speaker 1: let go. You know Michael Malley, this is gonna be 158 00:09:44,026 --> 00:09:48,236 Speaker 1: hard for you because you have so much information to 159 00:09:48,245 --> 00:09:52,994 Speaker 1: give us. But Michael, yes. No. Did the, the preacher, 160 00:09:53,005 --> 00:09:55,934 Speaker 1: the pastor? Did he have a girlfriend? I want to 161 00:09:55,945 --> 00:09:59,705 Speaker 1: establish that. Yeah, Nancy. That's right. So there's several reports 162 00:09:59,716 --> 00:10:01,755 Speaker 1: out there that say not only did he have a 163 00:10:01,765 --> 00:10:05,565 Speaker 1: girlfriend but that girlfriend allegedly may have been his alibi. 164 00:10:06,081 --> 00:10:09,322 Speaker 1: Holy my head's blowing off right now. Let me just 165 00:10:09,331 --> 00:10:12,461 Speaker 1: try to reattach that here at the top of my page. 166 00:10:12,471 --> 00:10:16,530 Speaker 1: What is his alibi? Where was he? OK. I did 167 00:10:16,541 --> 00:10:20,182 Speaker 1: not see that coming but thank you. I'm gonna split 168 00:10:20,192 --> 00:10:23,011 Speaker 1: your answer. I'm gonna bifurcate it and go back to 169 00:10:23,021 --> 00:10:26,221 Speaker 1: Scott Johnson. Boy. Do we need to shrink? Hold on. 170 00:10:26,231 --> 00:10:29,052 Speaker 1: So all this business you were saying about stalkers are 171 00:10:29,062 --> 00:10:30,952 Speaker 1: controlling and possessive and they won't let 172 00:10:31,028 --> 00:10:34,727 Speaker 1: the woman go. He double L if he had a girlfriend, 173 00:10:34,737 --> 00:10:38,247 Speaker 1: why did he care if she got a divorce? Explain 174 00:10:38,256 --> 00:10:41,796 Speaker 1: that to me, right? But you have the misogynistic bullshit. 175 00:10:41,817 --> 00:10:44,768 Speaker 1: If you will there that he's God's gift to women, 176 00:10:44,778 --> 00:10:47,187 Speaker 1: he can have as many women as he wants. But 177 00:10:47,197 --> 00:10:49,768 Speaker 1: once he has them, he possesses them. And so to 178 00:10:49,778 --> 00:10:53,567 Speaker 1: indoctrinate the new girlfriend to maybe even stalk and or 179 00:10:53,617 --> 00:10:55,887 Speaker 1: um help kill her would not 180 00:10:56,054 --> 00:10:58,153 Speaker 1: be out of the realm of what we've heard from 181 00:10:58,164 --> 00:11:02,473 Speaker 1: uh controlling domestic batters at all. And this all started 182 00:11:02,484 --> 00:11:08,453 Speaker 1: by me very calmly asking Michael Maley, investigative reporter, what 183 00:11:08,463 --> 00:11:14,463 Speaker 1: Micah's family said in their affidavits man, you threw me 184 00:11:14,473 --> 00:11:19,133 Speaker 1: a hardball. So the girlfriend you believe is going to 185 00:11:19,143 --> 00:11:20,823 Speaker 1: be the pastor's 186 00:11:21,460 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: alibi at the time, Mia was shot in the head. 187 00:11:25,130 --> 00:11:29,309 Speaker 1: The official police report says that uh that JP was 188 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,700 Speaker 1: with a woman. Um So there's speculation of some sorts 189 00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:37,919 Speaker 1: but um a lot of allegations suggest this is the 190 00:11:37,929 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 1: woman who he was with. Uh, he was in Charleston, 191 00:11:40,570 --> 00:11:44,270 Speaker 1: not in North Carolina where Mike's body was discovered, not 192 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,659 Speaker 1: from where the 911 call was tracked in that uh 193 00:11:47,669 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: Lumber River State Park. So the, 194 00:11:50,744 --> 00:11:53,104 Speaker 1: this is the, uh the suggestion is that no, uh 195 00:11:53,114 --> 00:11:58,155 Speaker 1: he's with a woman, uh, and police corroborate that uh 196 00:11:58,164 --> 00:12:00,965 Speaker 1: he was romantically involved with a woman at this time. 197 00:12:01,284 --> 00:12:04,364 Speaker 1: Um So that's, that's where he was. And another note, Nancy, that, 198 00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:06,625 Speaker 1: that did come up that may or may not be 199 00:12:06,635 --> 00:12:10,603 Speaker 1: interesting is, um, when asked before the press briefing where 200 00:12:10,614 --> 00:12:10,835 Speaker 1: they were, 201 00:12:11,690 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: Robinson County Sheriff's detective offered to meet separately JP. Um, 202 00:12:16,690 --> 00:12:19,260 Speaker 1: apparently through his attorney, he refused to meet them said 203 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,539 Speaker 1: he would take any information delivered to him here in 204 00:12:21,549 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: Ory County. Well, wait, wait, Michael. He, he, the preacher 205 00:12:25,090 --> 00:12:28,590 Speaker 1: refused to meet who Robinson County sheriff's deputies through his 206 00:12:28,599 --> 00:12:32,380 Speaker 1: attorney through notes that I'm reading. He said, I don't 207 00:12:32,390 --> 00:12:35,150 Speaker 1: wish to meet you in Robinson County. I'll be here 208 00:12:35,159 --> 00:12:37,140 Speaker 1: in Ore County if you want to deliver information to me. 209 00:12:37,150 --> 00:12:38,630 Speaker 1: That's kind of the gist of what we're getting. 210 00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 211 00:12:51,309 --> 00:12:55,130 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is joining me, renowned professor of forensics 212 00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:58,929 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath my Feet. Host 213 00:12:58,940 --> 00:13:03,539 Speaker 1: of body bags, the Hit new podcast, Joe Scott. You 214 00:13:03,549 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: have handled literally thousands of death investigations, some homicides, some suicides, 215 00:13:10,330 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: some natural cause, 216 00:13:12,739 --> 00:13:16,849 Speaker 1: but we have read a lot of police reports, right? 217 00:13:17,059 --> 00:13:21,890 Speaker 1: And when the police, right, in the report, the preacher, 218 00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: husband was with quote, a woman notice, you know, that's 219 00:13:26,090 --> 00:13:31,020 Speaker 1: code word, right? For girlfriend notice they didn't say a parishioner, 220 00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:36,010 Speaker 1: a congregant, a family friend, a neighbor, a coworker. They went, 221 00:13:36,020 --> 00:13:37,608 Speaker 1: he was with a woman. 222 00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:41,390 Speaker 1: We all know what that means. That is police lingo 223 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: for girlfriend 224 00:13:42,969 --> 00:13:43,789 Speaker 1: affair. Uh, 225 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:46,669 Speaker 2: yeah. And, uh, here's the other thing, you can also 226 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 2: insert the word alibi too, uh, perhaps and people that 227 00:13:51,609 --> 00:13:54,789 Speaker 2: find themselves in these positions, many time attempt to alibi 228 00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: themselves by being somewhere else or being with an individual 229 00:13:58,690 --> 00:13:59,799 Speaker 2: that perhaps can, 230 00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:02,500 Speaker 2: uh, you know, validate where they were. But if you've 231 00:14:02,510 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: got somebody that's engaged in deceptive behavior, which as we know, 232 00:14:06,770 --> 00:14:10,618 Speaker 2: infidelity is at the top of the heap, uh, you know, 233 00:14:10,630 --> 00:14:13,659 Speaker 2: who's to say that they wouldn't create some kind of other, uh, 234 00:14:13,669 --> 00:14:17,010 Speaker 2: fantastical story to pass off to the police. It's gonna 235 00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: have to be verified electronically. I think through the investigations, 236 00:14:20,289 --> 00:14:21,580 Speaker 2: they're going to have to, 237 00:14:22,039 --> 00:14:25,299 Speaker 2: you know, lay down the breadcrumbs electronically and talk about 238 00:14:25,309 --> 00:14:29,859 Speaker 2: the digital evidence that they have to specifically pinpoint this individual. 239 00:14:29,890 --> 00:14:29,919 Speaker 2: And 240 00:14:29,929 --> 00:14:32,859 Speaker 1: joining us an all star panel, a war of words 241 00:14:32,869 --> 00:14:39,820 Speaker 1: exploding between Mica's loved ones and the suggestion 242 00:14:40,489 --> 00:14:43,179 Speaker 1: that Mica committed suicide, 243 00:14:44,030 --> 00:14:47,619 Speaker 1: they better have some really strong evidence that this was 244 00:14:47,630 --> 00:14:50,809 Speaker 1: suicide back to you, Michael Melly. And I'm about to 245 00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:56,140 Speaker 1: bring in Irv Brant, um, very respected former US Marshal 246 00:14:56,150 --> 00:15:02,450 Speaker 1: service agent, International Investigations Branch and author of Jack Solo 247 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:06,849 Speaker 1: on Amazon Michael. Let me understand the alibi of the 248 00:15:06,859 --> 00:15:09,700 Speaker 1: preacher who is not a suspect and has not been 249 00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:12,289 Speaker 1: named a person of interest. The sheriff 250 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,580 Speaker 1: office, Facebook post says, quote Miller and a female, he's 251 00:15:16,590 --> 00:15:20,219 Speaker 1: allegedly romantically involved with, that's one way of putting it 252 00:15:20,229 --> 00:15:25,429 Speaker 1: romantically involved. Uh, investigators confirm both individuals not in North 253 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:31,020 Speaker 1: Carolina the night before and day of Mica's death. 254 00:15:31,989 --> 00:15:37,049 Speaker 1: Through interviews. JP Miller was at an athletic event in 255 00:15:37,059 --> 00:15:41,729 Speaker 1: Charleston on the day of Micah's death. Let me just 256 00:15:41,739 --> 00:15:45,190 Speaker 1: knock a few things down very quickly. What time of 257 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,090 Speaker 1: the day do we believe Mica was killed? Michael Malley. Uh, 258 00:15:50,099 --> 00:15:53,929 Speaker 1: it was the afternoon on, uh, Saturday, April 27th. 259 00:15:54,359 --> 00:15:57,539 Speaker 1: Uh, the call came in around 245 in the afternoon, 260 00:15:57,549 --> 00:16:02,460 Speaker 1: around 2:45 p.m. based on the 911 calls. Do you 261 00:16:02,469 --> 00:16:07,229 Speaker 1: know what athletic event the husband was supposed to be at? 262 00:16:07,239 --> 00:16:10,070 Speaker 1: We don't right now nor did the authorities release any 263 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,619 Speaker 1: information just that, uh, he was there with the woman, 264 00:16:13,630 --> 00:16:18,700 Speaker 1: he was allegedly involved with using a Robinson County detectives word. Ok. 265 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:21,979 Speaker 1: Apparently in the afternoon, coming back to Ory County, I 266 00:16:21,989 --> 00:16:23,020 Speaker 1: believe on Sunday, 267 00:16:23,109 --> 00:16:26,219 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. So that's kind of the timeline that 268 00:16:26,229 --> 00:16:29,150 Speaker 1: the authorities have released and put out that truck is 269 00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:32,890 Speaker 1: tinted black. How do I know who's in it? And 270 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:36,530 Speaker 1: also how do I know he was at an athletic event? 271 00:16:36,539 --> 00:16:39,950 Speaker 1: And was he there the whole time? And how far 272 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,179 Speaker 1: away is that 273 00:16:41,659 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: event from where Mica was killed? Fair questions. All of those. 274 00:16:46,409 --> 00:16:48,119 Speaker 1: Uh Charleston, South Carolina about an hour and a half 275 00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:51,849 Speaker 1: south of us in Myrtle Beach, uh Lumberton County, uh 276 00:16:51,859 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: Lumberton rather Robinson County about an hour north. So I'd 277 00:16:54,450 --> 00:16:56,799 Speaker 1: say about three hours to play it safe 2.5 to 278 00:16:56,809 --> 00:17:00,159 Speaker 1: 3 hours from where Micah's body was discovered to the 279 00:17:00,169 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: athletic event where um you know, the pastor allegedly was guys, 280 00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:07,449 Speaker 1: we're trying to determine the truth of what happened to 281 00:17:07,459 --> 00:17:07,599 Speaker 1: this 282 00:17:07,686 --> 00:17:11,345 Speaker 1: gorgeous young mom. Uh Back to you, Michael Mellie. What 283 00:17:11,355 --> 00:17:15,385 Speaker 1: more did you learn from the family's affidavits? Yeah. So, 284 00:17:15,395 --> 00:17:17,406 Speaker 1: and this, this really just kind of came out like I, 285 00:17:17,416 --> 00:17:19,286 Speaker 1: like I said, on the onset of our discussion and, 286 00:17:19,296 --> 00:17:22,036 Speaker 1: and this is uh compelling no matter how you look 287 00:17:22,046 --> 00:17:25,666 Speaker 1: at it. Um So the family, the siblings, Michael siblings, 288 00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:27,836 Speaker 1: she had a few, I believe up to four or five, 289 00:17:27,845 --> 00:17:29,845 Speaker 1: at least two of them filed an affidavit. This is 290 00:17:29,855 --> 00:17:33,615 Speaker 1: for um, the actual uh efforts to get 291 00:17:33,712 --> 00:17:38,631 Speaker 1: the ownership, I guess of her state. Um, you touched that, 292 00:17:38,641 --> 00:17:41,222 Speaker 1: I believe briefly. But March 11th, there were two police 293 00:17:41,232 --> 00:17:44,881 Speaker 1: reports filed about a, uh, tire that exploded a metal 294 00:17:44,891 --> 00:17:47,761 Speaker 1: device that they have erupted the tire, a GPS device. 295 00:17:47,771 --> 00:17:51,212 Speaker 1: That's when she allegedly was gonna file that restraining order. That's, 296 00:17:51,222 --> 00:17:54,462 Speaker 1: that was around March 11th. Well, in this affidavit, one 297 00:17:54,472 --> 00:17:58,852 Speaker 1: of the family members says they got an email from 298 00:17:58,862 --> 00:17:59,561 Speaker 1: like uh 299 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,500 Speaker 1: uh where she talked about her husband apologizing for the 300 00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:07,900 Speaker 1: tires and causing damage to her vehicle. Um And then 301 00:18:07,910 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 1: he went on to this email and again, this is 302 00:18:09,969 --> 00:18:12,930 Speaker 1: Mia's sibling saying I got an email from my sister. 303 00:18:12,939 --> 00:18:14,219 Speaker 1: My sister says this, 304 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,198 Speaker 1: um said Mr Miller's email to my sister continued to 305 00:18:17,209 --> 00:18:21,339 Speaker 1: think that he was angry that Mica confided in her 306 00:18:21,349 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: family over him. And he said in his words, the 307 00:18:25,050 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: affidavit said that when someone hurts me, I try to 308 00:18:27,930 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: hurt them back rather than forgive and instead of me 309 00:18:31,569 --> 00:18:33,819 Speaker 1: forgiving you, I just a cha attack and try to 310 00:18:33,829 --> 00:18:37,010 Speaker 1: cause pain. This was in the affidavit. 311 00:18:37,469 --> 00:18:42,489 Speaker 1: Um So look, the family has certainly plenty to grieve over, 312 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,329 Speaker 1: but they're bringing up more information about just the tumult 313 00:18:45,339 --> 00:18:50,069 Speaker 1: of this relationship beforehand. And what would appear again through 314 00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:54,250 Speaker 1: Micah's email him, taking ownership of some of these assaults, 315 00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:56,619 Speaker 1: so to speak. And joining me right now, as I 316 00:18:56,630 --> 00:19:00,689 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Irv Brandt, former US marshal who has traveled 317 00:19:00,699 --> 00:19:04,218 Speaker 1: the world for the US government to locate 318 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,429 Speaker 1: wanted felons. Irv, thank you for being with us. Listen, 319 00:19:08,839 --> 00:19:13,020 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to very carefully review that autopsy report 320 00:19:13,030 --> 00:19:15,510 Speaker 1: and I know that's your belly wick Joe Scott Morgan. 321 00:19:15,670 --> 00:19:19,630 Speaker 1: But Irv Brandt, when you've got a stalker husband, 322 00:19:20,030 --> 00:19:24,729 Speaker 1: uh allegedly putting tracking devices on his wife's car slashing 323 00:19:24,739 --> 00:19:28,329 Speaker 1: her tires apologizing for it, having an affair and the 324 00:19:28,339 --> 00:19:30,458 Speaker 1: wife says if you find me dead with a bullet 325 00:19:30,469 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: in my head, he did it, that autopsy report better 326 00:19:34,810 --> 00:19:39,859 Speaker 1: be clear and convincing, leaving no room for doubt. But 327 00:19:39,869 --> 00:19:42,660 Speaker 1: my question to you, uh brand is, 328 00:19:42,844 --> 00:19:46,864 Speaker 1: what about the alibi? You and I have both dealt 329 00:19:46,875 --> 00:19:51,104 Speaker 1: with a lot of alibis that stunk to high heaven 330 00:19:51,295 --> 00:19:55,724 Speaker 1: but with those tinted windows and a girlfriend that is 331 00:19:55,734 --> 00:19:59,165 Speaker 1: uh doug or heels in. What do you do, Nancy? That's, 332 00:19:59,214 --> 00:20:04,385 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And I have confidence in the investigators 333 00:20:04,395 --> 00:20:05,734 Speaker 1: uh in this matter 334 00:20:05,989 --> 00:20:10,310 Speaker 1: that they're not gonna overlook any possibilities. I mean, you 335 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:15,409 Speaker 1: have the perfect suspect, you know, everything that you laid out. 336 00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:18,989 Speaker 1: This guy is good for it. This wasn't a suicide. 337 00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:24,290 Speaker 1: So the police have to be absolutely sure that his 338 00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: alibi is rock solid, whether they went and interviewed people 339 00:20:28,209 --> 00:20:31,319 Speaker 1: that were at that sporting event, that there's video of 340 00:20:31,329 --> 00:20:33,899 Speaker 1: him at that sporting event. If his phone was at 341 00:20:33,910 --> 00:20:35,250 Speaker 1: that sporting event, 342 00:20:35,949 --> 00:20:38,770 Speaker 1: they, and then like you said, on top of that 343 00:20:38,819 --> 00:20:40,089 Speaker 1: the autopsy 344 00:20:40,709 --> 00:20:44,889 Speaker 1: has to be solid showing it's suicide for them to 345 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:47,750 Speaker 1: come out and say he's not a suspect or even 346 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: a person of interest given what we know. I just 347 00:20:50,890 --> 00:20:55,329 Speaker 1: wanna let you know that I'm alive and well, and, um, 348 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,369 Speaker 1: life's been kind of crazy a couple past weeks, 349 00:21:01,329 --> 00:21:04,589 Speaker 1: months, uh, years. 350 00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:06,659 Speaker 1: But, um, 351 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,020 Speaker 1: I've kind of had to keep my circle really small 352 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,260 Speaker 1: for the past couple of weeks 353 00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:14,530 Speaker 1: just because, um, 354 00:21:16,459 --> 00:21:19,938 Speaker 1: I'm going through a lot and it's hard. What does 355 00:21:19,949 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: that mean? Scott Johnson, joining me, a forensic psychologist and 356 00:21:22,890 --> 00:21:26,839 Speaker 1: author of when I love you turns violent among other books, 357 00:21:26,849 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: Scott Johnson. 358 00:21:28,939 --> 00:21:31,810 Speaker 1: What does that mean when someone goes on Facebook? Just 359 00:21:31,819 --> 00:21:35,550 Speaker 1: to reassure everyone that they're ok? Well, certainly that she's 360 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: not feeling ok, she's feeling scared and she wants to 361 00:21:38,890 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: make sure that people are hearing that undertow that care 362 00:21:42,050 --> 00:21:45,109 Speaker 1: about her, that recognize that code if you will, that, 363 00:21:45,290 --> 00:21:48,290 Speaker 1: you know, right now, I'm ok, but I've been through 364 00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:53,099 Speaker 1: a lot and she references that. So she's scared and she's, um, 365 00:21:53,349 --> 00:21:55,729 Speaker 1: you know, reaching out to people to kind of 366 00:21:56,584 --> 00:21:59,025 Speaker 1: listen then and keep track of her if you will 367 00:21:59,035 --> 00:22:02,364 Speaker 1: to make sure she stays ok. It's hurting me to 368 00:22:02,375 --> 00:22:06,775 Speaker 1: think that she was turning to posting on Facebook about 369 00:22:06,785 --> 00:22:09,984 Speaker 1: her fears and the pain that she was going through. 370 00:22:09,994 --> 00:22:13,885 Speaker 1: She even gives it a definitive time period. She says 371 00:22:13,895 --> 00:22:17,073 Speaker 1: for years, I've been going through this clearly alluding to 372 00:22:17,084 --> 00:22:24,165 Speaker 1: her marriage again, her pastor husband, JP Miller. John Paul Miller, 373 00:22:24,510 --> 00:22:27,369 Speaker 1: um, is not a suspect or a person of interest. 374 00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:30,239 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he's probably looking for a 375 00:22:30,250 --> 00:22:34,170 Speaker 1: job right now because John Paul Miller has been booted 376 00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:39,410 Speaker 1: from that Myrtle Beach church just days after he casually 377 00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:45,579 Speaker 1: reveals his wife's suicide to a stunned conversation. But you 378 00:22:45,589 --> 00:22:49,869 Speaker 1: know what? Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Listen, 379 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:52,149 Speaker 1: I got a call late last night. My wife has 380 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:52,649 Speaker 1: passed away. 381 00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, it was self induced and it was 382 00:22:56,689 --> 00:22:58,629 Speaker 1: uh up in North Carolina and somehow it kind of 383 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: like wedge that in to the rest of the service 384 00:23:01,839 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: to Brian Foley. Joining me, a veteran trial lawyer and 385 00:23:06,969 --> 00:23:11,229 Speaker 1: author of what prosecutors don't tell you, Brian, I know 386 00:23:11,239 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: a good defense attorney like yourself will argue. Well, that 387 00:23:13,890 --> 00:23:16,458 Speaker 1: means nothing. You know, there's no, how many times have 388 00:23:16,469 --> 00:23:20,260 Speaker 1: I heard it? There's no playbook for grief, but it 389 00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: matters to me. 390 00:23:21,589 --> 00:23:26,010 Speaker 1: And I guarantee you it would matter to any woman 391 00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:30,409 Speaker 1: on a jury that he's talking about this and that 392 00:23:30,420 --> 00:23:33,209 Speaker 1: and that and this and oh, yeah, my wife's dead. 393 00:23:33,619 --> 00:23:34,599 Speaker 1: She did it. 394 00:23:35,410 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 1: And then he instructed everybody to leave in silence and 395 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:41,250 Speaker 1: don't ask him any questions. Hey, I mean, that, that's 396 00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:43,949 Speaker 1: a great argument for, he's a little bit weird or, 397 00:23:43,959 --> 00:23:46,319 Speaker 1: or a jerk if you want to say cheating on 398 00:23:46,329 --> 00:23:48,188 Speaker 1: her is obviously not a great thing, but 399 00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:52,738 Speaker 1: uh he's not guilty of murdering her. There's concrete proof 400 00:23:52,750 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: of that. The police have her on video at 12:12 p.m. 401 00:23:57,010 --> 00:24:00,198 Speaker 1: buying a nine millimeter six. So which is gonna match 402 00:24:00,209 --> 00:24:02,819 Speaker 1: up to the bullet that they have with her. Um, 403 00:24:02,829 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: they found bullets in the car, they found, uh, even 404 00:24:06,689 --> 00:24:09,650 Speaker 1: on her phone, they have her looking up, uh, where 405 00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:12,438 Speaker 1: the nearest National Force is. That's where they found her. 406 00:24:12,699 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: The reason she called 911, she says in her own 407 00:24:14,890 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: voice 408 00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:19,229 Speaker 1: that she uh is intending on killing herself. So, you know, 409 00:24:19,239 --> 00:24:22,099 Speaker 1: there's can be a lot of speculation, but the police 410 00:24:22,109 --> 00:24:26,260 Speaker 1: and the law requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And 411 00:24:26,270 --> 00:24:28,319 Speaker 1: I think you could probably prove beyond a reasonable doubt 412 00:24:28,329 --> 00:24:31,060 Speaker 1: that she did kill herself. Not just that uh you 413 00:24:31,069 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: ha you'd have to prove it the other way beyond 414 00:24:32,689 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt that he did the killing and uh 415 00:24:34,810 --> 00:24:37,988 Speaker 1: him not being very articulate in front of a crowd 416 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,790 Speaker 1: after he, he finds out his wife has committed suicide. 417 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,989 Speaker 1: Uh That's not proof. I got a question for you. 418 00:24:43,420 --> 00:24:50,310 Speaker 1: Um Does the name Conrad Roy? Ring a bell or 419 00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:57,770 Speaker 1: Michelle Carter? His former girlfriend, Conrad Roy, an extremely sensitive 420 00:24:57,780 --> 00:25:02,188 Speaker 1: young man commits suicide at the behest, the urging the 421 00:25:02,199 --> 00:25:05,170 Speaker 1: aiding the abetting of his girlfriend 422 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,650 Speaker 1: Michelle Carter and she got convicted and did a little 423 00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: bit of a hard time. Are you familiar with that case? 424 00:25:11,050 --> 00:25:14,459 Speaker 1: And others like it? We're a little familiar with that 425 00:25:14,469 --> 00:25:18,459 Speaker 1: but it's not really the same here because he's, his 426 00:25:18,469 --> 00:25:21,819 Speaker 1: license plate reader is three hours away at the same time. 427 00:25:22,109 --> 00:25:24,869 Speaker 1: You know, there's no evidence of a struggle or anything 428 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,750 Speaker 1: like that. And on the 911 call had he been 429 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,790 Speaker 1: like in the background, you know, forcing her hand or 430 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,569 Speaker 1: something like that. We wouldn't expect her reasoning to be 431 00:25:33,579 --> 00:25:35,719 Speaker 1: for her family to find her or something like that. 432 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,170 Speaker 1: We'd expect her to be crying a little more to be, uh, 433 00:25:39,180 --> 00:25:42,270 Speaker 1: more upset. Maybe even blurt something out like he's here 434 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,910 Speaker 1: or something like that. Hold on. Did I hear Brian Foley, 435 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:50,770 Speaker 1: the veteran trial lawyer say his license plate reader places 436 00:25:50,780 --> 00:25:51,810 Speaker 1: his truck 437 00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:53,139 Speaker 1: elsewhere. 438 00:25:53,819 --> 00:25:57,579 Speaker 1: Did I hear you say anything about an alibi other 439 00:25:57,589 --> 00:26:02,089 Speaker 1: than his girlfriend is he spotted on video? Is his 440 00:26:02,099 --> 00:26:04,839 Speaker 1: cell phone there at that sporting event? 441 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,670 Speaker 1: Do, do I have any other eyewitness placing him three 442 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,170 Speaker 1: hours away other than the girlfriend? And by the way, 443 00:26:12,180 --> 00:26:14,889 Speaker 1: weren't these two still legally married? They weren't divorced yet, 444 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:18,069 Speaker 1: were they Brian Foley? Yeah. And you know, if we 445 00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:20,310 Speaker 1: want to convict him of being a jerk, that's fine, 446 00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:25,180 Speaker 1: but that's not a crime. And this is, yeah, what 447 00:26:25,589 --> 00:26:29,530 Speaker 1: he's not placed three hours away. His vehicle is, but importantly, 448 00:26:29,540 --> 00:26:32,829 Speaker 1: he's not placed when she's there buying the gun that 449 00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:35,448 Speaker 1: did the suicide at 12:12 p.m. 450 00:26:35,869 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: Uh, she is on video. She's not with him. He's 451 00:26:39,130 --> 00:26:41,208 Speaker 1: not captured in the parking lot you can see on 452 00:26:41,219 --> 00:26:44,129 Speaker 1: her face, we, she's almost smiling at it. She's, this 453 00:26:44,140 --> 00:26:46,849 Speaker 1: is something that she's obviously had some mental health issues. 454 00:26:46,859 --> 00:26:49,649 Speaker 1: She's going through a lot and this is her taking 455 00:26:49,660 --> 00:26:52,739 Speaker 1: control back of her, her life. And you can actually 456 00:26:52,750 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: in suicides like that. There is this period sometimes beforehand 457 00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:58,770 Speaker 1: when the victim or of the suicide knows that 458 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,500 Speaker 1: they're going to do this where they get a little 459 00:27:00,510 --> 00:27:02,859 Speaker 1: bit happier, They feel like they're in control of things. 460 00:27:02,869 --> 00:27:04,189 Speaker 1: You can see that in the smile on her face 461 00:27:04,199 --> 00:27:06,619 Speaker 1: in that video. Hey, Brian Foley. Guess what 462 00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:11,869 Speaker 1: Michelle Carter wasn't present when Conrad Roy killed himself either. 463 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,869 Speaker 1: She was on the phone saying go ahead, kill yourself. 464 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,500 Speaker 1: She wasn't there either, but she went to jail again. 465 00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:22,310 Speaker 1: Let me reiterate. We invited the pastor 466 00:27:22,569 --> 00:27:26,369 Speaker 1: John Paul Miller on today to answer some tough questions. 467 00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:29,698 Speaker 1: He did not respond. He's just been booted by his 468 00:27:29,709 --> 00:27:33,589 Speaker 1: Myrtle Beach church. And I'm wondering, what do they know that? 469 00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:37,859 Speaker 1: We don't know if this is truly a suicide? If 470 00:27:37,869 --> 00:27:41,829 Speaker 1: that church believes that Micah committed suicide, then why did 471 00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:44,869 Speaker 1: they fire him? Why, why aren't they 472 00:27:44,949 --> 00:27:50,409 Speaker 1: uh uh enfolding him with compassion and sympathy instead of 473 00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:55,530 Speaker 1: firing him? What do they know? Joining me, Joseph Scott Morgan, 474 00:27:55,589 --> 00:28:00,179 Speaker 1: we're now professor of forensics Jacksonville State University author, podcaster 475 00:28:00,270 --> 00:28:05,729 Speaker 1: and star of the hit series, uh Joe Scott, what 476 00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:07,209 Speaker 1: would convince you 477 00:28:07,849 --> 00:28:13,260 Speaker 1: in that autopsy report that this is really a suicide 478 00:28:13,270 --> 00:28:16,729 Speaker 1: I'm not saying it is. I'm not saying it's not 479 00:28:16,989 --> 00:28:22,448 Speaker 1: and the husband is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He 480 00:28:22,459 --> 00:28:24,050 Speaker 1: has not been charged. 481 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:28,389 Speaker 1: But in my world, Jo Scott, when a woman says, 482 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,349 Speaker 1: if I turn up dead with a bullet in my head, 483 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,339 Speaker 1: he did it and then she turns up dead with 484 00:28:32,349 --> 00:28:35,030 Speaker 1: a bullet in her head. I've got to think about it. 485 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: So what would convince you, what do you know about 486 00:28:38,650 --> 00:28:42,339 Speaker 1: the suicide other than it's highly unlikely for a female, 487 00:28:42,349 --> 00:28:44,250 Speaker 1: her age to shoot herself in the head. 488 00:28:44,719 --> 00:28:46,750 Speaker 1: What are you looking for? Joe Scott? 489 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,550 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be looking for the presence of soot deposition 490 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,229 Speaker 2: and that is when the blast of the weapon makes 491 00:28:53,239 --> 00:28:56,589 Speaker 2: contact with the skin, the proximity to the end of 492 00:28:56,599 --> 00:28:59,479 Speaker 2: the muzzle. If you guys could come to me on 493 00:28:59,489 --> 00:29:02,329 Speaker 2: camera just for a second, I'll kind of show you 494 00:29:02,339 --> 00:29:05,089 Speaker 2: what I'm talking about here. Uh Well, this is a 495 00:29:05,099 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: dummy weapon that we use at Jackson State when a 496 00:29:08,050 --> 00:29:11,510 Speaker 2: weapon is placed to the skin like this and it 497 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,270 Speaker 2: is fired. Ok? 498 00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:18,060 Speaker 2: The deposition into the surface will be blown in and 499 00:29:18,069 --> 00:29:20,270 Speaker 2: you'll be able to appreciate that as far as a 500 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: close contact, gunshot wound or a press contact. We do 501 00:29:24,569 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 2: know this piece of information that was released by the 502 00:29:27,290 --> 00:29:32,540 Speaker 2: medical examiner uh for Robinson County. Uh The he had 503 00:29:32,550 --> 00:29:34,619 Speaker 2: stated in his release 504 00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:38,599 Speaker 2: that contrary to what had been floating around out there 505 00:29:38,660 --> 00:29:41,359 Speaker 2: that this was not a gunshot wound to the back 506 00:29:41,369 --> 00:29:45,030 Speaker 2: of the head. We generally associate those with an execution 507 00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: style gunshot wound and those in, in the framework of suicide. 508 00:29:50,530 --> 00:29:53,589 Speaker 2: When you're talking about self inflicted gunshot wounds, a wound, 509 00:29:53,724 --> 00:29:55,464 Speaker 2: the back of the head is what we call an 510 00:29:55,474 --> 00:29:59,464 Speaker 2: atypical location for a self inflicted gunshot wound. So, what 511 00:29:59,474 --> 00:30:03,285 Speaker 2: we're looking for is the proximity perhaps on the temple 512 00:30:03,295 --> 00:30:06,415 Speaker 2: or maybe an intraoral gunshot wound and they haven't released 513 00:30:06,425 --> 00:30:09,244 Speaker 2: that information yet. That's what I'd be keying in on 514 00:30:09,354 --> 00:30:12,425 Speaker 2: relative to the autopsy results when they're finally released. 515 00:30:19,699 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace 516 00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:30,540 Speaker 1: guys. 517 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,459 Speaker 1: In the last hours, a 911 call has been released 518 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,589 Speaker 1: that purports to be Mica 519 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,060 Speaker 1: near suicide, 520 00:30:40,859 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: her family and loved ones want proof and I don't 521 00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:50,989 Speaker 1: blame them. And let me remind everyone, the husband slash 522 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,959 Speaker 1: pastor has not been named as a suspect. We invited 523 00:30:55,969 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: him to join us and set straight the record. He 524 00:30:59,930 --> 00:31:04,900 Speaker 1: did not respond. But who did respond? A very dear 525 00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: friend of Micah's 526 00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:10,319 Speaker 1: Shaylon French is joining us, Shaylon. Thank you for being 527 00:31:10,329 --> 00:31:12,869 Speaker 1: with us. Thank you for having me on Shaylon. When 528 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,510 Speaker 1: did you learn that Micah had passed away? I learned 529 00:31:18,010 --> 00:31:19,020 Speaker 1: two days ago 530 00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:22,199 Speaker 1: on tiktok, it went viral and I was laying in 531 00:31:22,209 --> 00:31:27,030 Speaker 1: bed and I found the video and to those who 532 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,719 Speaker 1: are in her life group in Kansas where she tried 533 00:31:31,729 --> 00:31:35,969 Speaker 1: to come back to, to separate from her husband. Um 534 00:31:35,979 --> 00:31:37,729 Speaker 1: in early 2023. 535 00:31:38,479 --> 00:31:41,510 Speaker 1: Um I shared it with them and we all found 536 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: out right then and there, what was your immediate thought 537 00:31:44,170 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: when you learned Mica was dead? My immediate thoughts went 538 00:31:48,170 --> 00:31:49,900 Speaker 1: straight to him. What do you mean by that? You 539 00:31:49,910 --> 00:31:52,969 Speaker 1: felt sorry for him? You felt empathy for him when 540 00:31:52,979 --> 00:31:55,430 Speaker 1: you say your immediate thoughts went straight to him. What 541 00:31:55,439 --> 00:31:59,060 Speaker 1: exactly did you think when you heard Mica is dead? 542 00:31:59,069 --> 00:32:03,020 Speaker 1: I after the stories that she had shared with everyone 543 00:32:03,849 --> 00:32:07,829 Speaker 1: about her abuse and we all got very watered down. 544 00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:11,969 Speaker 1: Um versions of obviously everything that was happening because when 545 00:32:11,979 --> 00:32:14,390 Speaker 1: you just meet somebody, you're not going to tell them everything. 546 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:15,430 Speaker 1: Um 547 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: We got all text messages when she was leaving. That 548 00:32:19,810 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: didn't make any sense when she was planning on staying 549 00:32:22,650 --> 00:32:25,020 Speaker 1: in Kansas and she was planning on thriving. She was 550 00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:28,699 Speaker 1: planning on making trips healing and all of a sudden 551 00:32:28,709 --> 00:32:31,939 Speaker 1: we heard nothing. It was a hey, good news. I've 552 00:32:31,949 --> 00:32:34,699 Speaker 1: been reconciled. My husband's allowing me to come back home. 553 00:32:35,275 --> 00:32:39,905 Speaker 1: OK. Whoa whoa whoa whoa My husband's allowing me to 554 00:32:39,915 --> 00:32:43,984 Speaker 1: come back home. He allowed her to come back home. 555 00:32:43,994 --> 00:32:48,295 Speaker 1: I've been reconciled. Praise God. OK? The a the abuse 556 00:32:48,305 --> 00:32:53,265 Speaker 1: that she did admit. What did she say to me personally? 557 00:32:53,744 --> 00:32:57,425 Speaker 1: And she did not give explicit details. She mentioned how 558 00:32:57,435 --> 00:33:01,015 Speaker 1: her husband would watch or make her watch on Holy Acts. 559 00:33:01,025 --> 00:33:02,744 Speaker 1: And those are the exact words that she gave to 560 00:33:02,755 --> 00:33:03,025 Speaker 1: me 561 00:33:03,630 --> 00:33:06,119 Speaker 1: when I tried to ask deeper. I didn't get an answer. 562 00:33:06,130 --> 00:33:10,530 Speaker 1: Made her watch Unholy Acts. Ok. That could be a 563 00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:14,780 Speaker 1: number of things with me is Micah's very dear friend, 564 00:33:14,790 --> 00:33:16,140 Speaker 1: Sheila French. 565 00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:22,089 Speaker 1: Were you surprised when you learned Mia was dead? So 566 00:33:22,099 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to back up a little bit because when 567 00:33:24,930 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: we met her, it was in early January 2023 she 568 00:33:28,930 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: came to Kansas to live with family and she started 569 00:33:32,170 --> 00:33:32,719 Speaker 1: coming to our church 570 00:33:32,864 --> 00:33:37,084 Speaker 1: church when she came to our church, she, her testimony 571 00:33:37,094 --> 00:33:39,405 Speaker 1: was first off beautiful. She immediately wanted to be a 572 00:33:39,415 --> 00:33:43,005 Speaker 1: mission trips. She immediately wanted to get involved. She wanted 573 00:33:43,015 --> 00:33:45,645 Speaker 1: to know everybody. She was adventurous. She was ready to 574 00:33:45,655 --> 00:33:48,484 Speaker 1: just start a new life away from him. 575 00:33:49,469 --> 00:33:53,530 Speaker 1: We had conversations about her taking care of her own 576 00:33:53,540 --> 00:33:57,949 Speaker 1: mental health. We had conversations about her feeling like there 577 00:33:57,959 --> 00:34:00,020 Speaker 1: was nothing wrong with her, but she wanted to double check. 578 00:34:00,030 --> 00:34:02,250 Speaker 1: She was so happy to be able to deal with 579 00:34:02,260 --> 00:34:04,130 Speaker 1: her own mental health. She was so happy to be 580 00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:07,849 Speaker 1: able to go see a therapist. We were making plans 581 00:34:07,869 --> 00:34:12,300 Speaker 1: and then in March, March 23rd, 2023 we all got 582 00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:16,089 Speaker 1: a text message that said praise, praise God. I've been reconciled. 583 00:34:17,429 --> 00:34:20,139 Speaker 1: So in my surprise that she is dead. 584 00:34:21,989 --> 00:34:24,529 Speaker 1: Yes, because she was so smart and I hoped she 585 00:34:24,540 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: would escape it. But this guy 586 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,009 Speaker 1: seemed scary. He seemed 587 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,020 Speaker 1: calculated 588 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,570 Speaker 1: and you could tell she was definitely in fear even 589 00:34:37,580 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: being away from him. I don't understand the nature of 590 00:34:41,330 --> 00:34:44,489 Speaker 1: their relationship when she was 15 years old when she 591 00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:47,669 Speaker 1: met him. How did she end up mother to his 592 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:51,909 Speaker 1: five Children? From another woman? I am not sure. So, 593 00:34:51,919 --> 00:34:55,300 Speaker 1: when she met us in Kansas, she did talk about, um, 594 00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:58,149 Speaker 1: his Children, but the only thing she mentioned was that 595 00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:01,379 Speaker 1: they were close to her age, um, she treated them 596 00:35:01,389 --> 00:35:04,419 Speaker 1: like they were her own. She was very kind to them. 597 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,580 Speaker 1: She talked about missing them even. But I'm not exactly 598 00:35:08,590 --> 00:35:12,219 Speaker 1: sure how it even came about that. A youth pastor 599 00:35:12,229 --> 00:35:15,699 Speaker 1: would go after a young teen. She never explained that. 600 00:35:16,229 --> 00:35:18,129 Speaker 1: But you could definitely tell when she gave us that 601 00:35:18,139 --> 00:35:21,060 Speaker 1: information that she had gone through church abuse. Question. Was 602 00:35:21,070 --> 00:35:23,469 Speaker 1: he the youth pastor when he met her as a 603 00:35:23,479 --> 00:35:28,339 Speaker 1: 15 year old girl? I can't confirm that I have 604 00:35:28,350 --> 00:35:31,570 Speaker 1: heard just like everybody else that he was part of 605 00:35:31,580 --> 00:35:35,169 Speaker 1: the teen ministry. Um I have no information on that. 606 00:35:35,179 --> 00:35:38,969 Speaker 1: And joining me is Micah's friend Shay and French. What 607 00:35:38,979 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 1: do you make of the 608 00:35:42,330 --> 00:35:46,459 Speaker 1: now cod cause of death? Suicide? Do you believe that? 609 00:35:46,610 --> 00:35:47,540 Speaker 1: I don't want to, 610 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,580 Speaker 1: I don't want to believe that I want to believe 611 00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: that she didn't and that this is all calculated that 612 00:35:57,379 --> 00:36:00,530 Speaker 1: anybody could tell someone to walk. There. People are coming 613 00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:03,899 Speaker 1: out with even so many questions about the videos, footage, 614 00:36:03,909 --> 00:36:06,779 Speaker 1: footages that have been released by the police and seeing 615 00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:10,620 Speaker 1: inconsistencies there, um like seeing at the gun store and 616 00:36:10,629 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: not seeing her tattoo on the right hand. Um They, 617 00:36:15,090 --> 00:36:17,830 Speaker 1: someone had posted that there was a blue truck nearby 618 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: following her. Although I don't, the timelines wouldn't be consistent 619 00:36:21,929 --> 00:36:23,129 Speaker 1: to where he was at. 620 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:24,810 Speaker 1: I 621 00:36:25,709 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: truly think this could have still been foul play. However, 622 00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:31,580 Speaker 1: if she did, she is the one she called 911 623 00:36:31,590 --> 00:36:34,379 Speaker 1: and that honestly, that phone call was gut ring to 624 00:36:34,389 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: all of us. Um 625 00:36:36,590 --> 00:36:38,850 Speaker 1: When she called 911, I could believe it. And the 626 00:36:38,860 --> 00:36:41,909 Speaker 1: only reason is because when you have been through that 627 00:36:41,919 --> 00:36:45,209 Speaker 1: much abuse and you feel like now that your abuser 628 00:36:45,219 --> 00:36:47,860 Speaker 1: has thrown you out and you are nothing, he finally 629 00:36:47,870 --> 00:36:49,250 Speaker 1: was able to get a divorce. 630 00:36:49,870 --> 00:36:52,620 Speaker 1: I could see her taking her own life and feeling 631 00:36:52,629 --> 00:36:55,510 Speaker 1: like she had nothing left. However, when she was with 632 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,810 Speaker 1: us a year ago, this, this girl had fight, she 633 00:36:57,820 --> 00:37:00,948 Speaker 1: was mentally stable. She was ready to start a new life. 634 00:37:00,959 --> 00:37:02,819 Speaker 1: She was ready to go on a mission trip. She 635 00:37:02,830 --> 00:37:04,649 Speaker 1: was ready to make an impact on everyone in her 636 00:37:04,659 --> 00:37:10,530 Speaker 1: community to Michael Maley joining us investigative reporter in South Carolina. 637 00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:16,540 Speaker 1: What is she talking about? A blue truck was near 638 00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:19,729 Speaker 1: the location where Mica was found dead as far as 639 00:37:19,739 --> 00:37:22,570 Speaker 1: the location, everything that I'm getting from authorities from their 640 00:37:22,580 --> 00:37:27,129 Speaker 1: release was just tracking her car. Um I don't have 641 00:37:27,139 --> 00:37:28,790 Speaker 1: information about a blue truck. 642 00:37:29,050 --> 00:37:31,790 Speaker 1: Uh just that her Honda was tracked there with a drone. They, 643 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,350 Speaker 1: they did locate the car there, that J P's truck 644 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,060 Speaker 1: according to authorities based on the license plate, that's the 645 00:37:37,070 --> 00:37:41,179 Speaker 1: truck that we've seen um in Ory County. Um going 646 00:37:41,189 --> 00:37:45,350 Speaker 1: and coming to Charleston about three hours from the Lumber 647 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,270 Speaker 1: River State Park in North Carolina. 648 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,060 Speaker 1: Um So Nancy just to clarify that, that's the only 649 00:37:51,070 --> 00:37:53,580 Speaker 1: information that I've got as far as a truck location 650 00:37:53,590 --> 00:37:58,379 Speaker 1: near where Micah's body was discovered. We are learning that 651 00:37:58,389 --> 00:38:04,129 Speaker 1: the cod cause of death at this juncture is suicide. 652 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,610 Speaker 1: I'm looking at her obituary written by her husband who 653 00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 1: has just been released from his position at that Myrtle 654 00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:17,370 Speaker 1: Beach Church. I I'm curious to Micah's very close friend, 655 00:38:17,379 --> 00:38:22,300 Speaker 1: Shayla French. Why is the obit about him so much? 656 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,350 Speaker 1: What did he write the obit? It looks like it. 657 00:38:25,409 --> 00:38:27,870 Speaker 1: So I would like to put a reminder out there. 658 00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:33,209 Speaker 1: She left Kansas in March 20 March 23rd, 2023. Most 659 00:38:33,219 --> 00:38:36,110 Speaker 1: of us in Kansas where she escaped to have not 660 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,639 Speaker 1: heard from her since when we looked at that obituary 661 00:38:38,679 --> 00:38:43,379 Speaker 1: where it says I loved, she loved her husband so much. 662 00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:46,029 Speaker 1: This was not written by her. This was written by 663 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,580 Speaker 1: a narcissist. It is absolutely disgusting. 664 00:38:48,879 --> 00:38:52,100 Speaker 1: Every single way loved her husband so much told him 665 00:38:52,110 --> 00:38:57,050 Speaker 1: he was the funniest preacher in the world. OK. And 666 00:38:57,060 --> 00:38:59,219 Speaker 1: uh more and more. 667 00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: Ok to you Michael Maley joining us investigative reporter out 668 00:39:04,729 --> 00:39:08,939 Speaker 1: of South Carolina. What do you make of that obit? 669 00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:12,050 Speaker 1: And what more can you tell us? Yeah. You know, Nancy, 670 00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:15,969 Speaker 1: it's tough. We can't ask Micah these questions so we 671 00:39:15,979 --> 00:39:18,669 Speaker 1: can't go into the detail that only she knew in 672 00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:22,219 Speaker 1: her last moments. Uh, you read this obituary and, and 673 00:39:22,229 --> 00:39:25,179 Speaker 1: here living in Myrtle Beach, in, in inundated community, 674 00:39:25,469 --> 00:39:29,699 Speaker 1: um, people just bring up, you know, why does the 675 00:39:29,709 --> 00:39:33,350 Speaker 1: obituary talk, you know about her estranged husband that she 676 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,029 Speaker 1: thought he was the funniest preacher in the world, uh, 677 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,639 Speaker 1: that she, you know, would praise her husband after every 678 00:39:38,649 --> 00:39:41,969 Speaker 1: church service telling him he was the best preacher. Um, 679 00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:49,629 Speaker 1: even analytically, even uh objectively. Um I'm sure a psychologist 680 00:39:49,639 --> 00:39:52,300 Speaker 1: as well. Hold on just a moment. I mean, this 681 00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:56,290 Speaker 1: thing says I'm looking at it, quote. She and JP, 682 00:39:56,300 --> 00:40:00,610 Speaker 1: the pastor had been friends since 2009, married in 2017 683 00:40:00,620 --> 00:40:04,409 Speaker 1: and spent almost every single day and night together, I guess, 684 00:40:04,419 --> 00:40:06,189 Speaker 1: except when he was with his girlfriend. 685 00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:11,459 Speaker 1: Yes. No. Were they separated? They were, they were separated? Ok. 686 00:40:11,469 --> 00:40:15,909 Speaker 1: She originally had filed for divorce back in October. So 687 00:40:15,919 --> 00:40:16,820 Speaker 1: it was ongoing. 688 00:40:17,159 --> 00:40:18,899 Speaker 1: Then they were suggesting that they were going to try 689 00:40:18,909 --> 00:40:21,209 Speaker 1: to rekindle and so that was dropped. So this was 690 00:40:21,219 --> 00:40:24,830 Speaker 1: a tumultuous pass for since at least October publicly through 691 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,439 Speaker 1: the court record, Scott Johnson joining me forensic psychologist. What 692 00:40:28,449 --> 00:40:32,609 Speaker 1: are hypnotic drugs? Well, drugs were when people are under 693 00:40:32,620 --> 00:40:37,189 Speaker 1: the influence they are oftentimes either unable to resist. 694 00:40:37,264 --> 00:40:39,754 Speaker 1: Yes. So you're saying you want to do this, you're 695 00:40:39,764 --> 00:40:42,415 Speaker 1: going to do this? Yes, I will. Even though, you know, 696 00:40:42,425 --> 00:40:46,445 Speaker 1: they're not wanting to, but they look normal, sound normal. So, 697 00:40:46,455 --> 00:40:50,245 Speaker 1: um the hypnotic drugs are often used for date rapists, 698 00:40:50,304 --> 00:40:53,875 Speaker 1: um human trafficking and things like that. Curious uh Brian 699 00:40:53,885 --> 00:40:57,274 Speaker 1: Foley veteran, trial lawyer and author 700 00:40:58,290 --> 00:41:00,830 Speaker 1: final thought, Brian Foley, I mean, if I was a 701 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,179 Speaker 1: prosecutor and I had evidence that his license plate reader 702 00:41:05,189 --> 00:41:07,709 Speaker 1: was near the crime scene and he was on video 703 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,550 Speaker 1: purchasing the gun himself. And there was a 911 call 704 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,500 Speaker 1: where the victim said he was the one who was 705 00:41:12,510 --> 00:41:14,689 Speaker 1: going to do it. You'd have a knockdown case. I 706 00:41:14,699 --> 00:41:16,969 Speaker 1: don't know why it doesn't work the other way. Uh 707 00:41:16,989 --> 00:41:21,219 Speaker 1: JP is innocent. This is the suicide. Well, that's what 708 00:41:21,229 --> 00:41:24,439 Speaker 1: we're hearing. And to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, 709 00:41:25,350 --> 00:41:26,270 Speaker 1: what do you think 710 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,169 Speaker 2: over all my years, Nancy as a death investigator in 711 00:41:29,179 --> 00:41:31,969 Speaker 2: New Orleans in Atlanta, I worked more suicides actually than 712 00:41:31,979 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 2: I did homicides. People are amazed by that, but that's 713 00:41:35,530 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 2: the truth in America. And the reality is this, if 714 00:41:38,810 --> 00:41:42,169 Speaker 2: you live with somebody and you know them and you 715 00:41:42,179 --> 00:41:46,290 Speaker 2: have control over their life, perhaps, you know, all of 716 00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:50,060 Speaker 2: the pressure points and you have somebody that is emotionally fragile, 717 00:41:50,070 --> 00:41:54,139 Speaker 2: they're wounded, you know, what buttons to press, 718 00:41:54,590 --> 00:41:57,989 Speaker 2: you know, electronic tracking devices, these sorts of things and 719 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,370 Speaker 2: you can push people to the edge edge. Nancy. I've 720 00:42:00,379 --> 00:42:04,189 Speaker 2: worked cases like that and they are absolutely tragic. And 721 00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:06,770 Speaker 2: the problem is is that at the end of the day, 722 00:42:07,479 --> 00:42:11,540 Speaker 2: you have nothing to hang your hat on other than 723 00:42:11,550 --> 00:42:14,179 Speaker 2: the fact of what the evidence reveals at the end. 724 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 2: And there ultimately is no closure and it's very, very tragic. 725 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:24,919 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Let's stop. And remember American hero, Sergeant, 726 00:42:24,929 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: Bill Hoosier, Utah, Sergeant Hoosier struck and killed by a 727 00:42:30,050 --> 00:42:32,229 Speaker 1: fleeing suspect in a semi, 728 00:42:32,909 --> 00:42:39,689 Speaker 1: survived by his grieving wife, two daughters, granddaughter, American hero, Sergeant, 729 00:42:39,699 --> 00:42:41,189 Speaker 1: Bill Hoosier. 730 00:42:41,939 --> 00:42:45,459 Speaker 1: Thank you to all of our guests for joining us 731 00:42:45,469 --> 00:42:46,050 Speaker 1: tonight 732 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:53,779 Speaker 1: during this moment of confusion and heartbreak for Micah Miller 733 00:42:54,850 --> 00:42:57,509 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Signing off. Good night friend.