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Speaker 1: Welcome back to gear Talk everyone. Jordan here, and I've

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Speaker 1: got Yannis Talis on with me, and we also have

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Speaker 1: Garrett long on what's going on. Some could say our

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Speaker 1: fearless leader.

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Speaker 2: Some could say that most wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: I think what Jordan means is that Garrett is uh

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Speaker 3: manages the content production team, so it's more like corraling

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Speaker 3: a bunch of cats, which is good because Garrett's Garrett's

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a cowboy, so he's good at

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Speaker 3: coraling and doing that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, doing a little roping on the on the weekdays.

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Speaker 3: Roping on the weekdays. He even wears wranglers and the

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Speaker 3: cowboy hat sometimes to do That's right.

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Speaker 4: Oh man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you guys did not too long ago, about

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Speaker 1: six months ago, you guys did a video it's called

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Speaker 1: Copper versus Lead. It's on the Meater channel, and in

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Speaker 1: that you broke down a few different types of bullets

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Speaker 1: and you shot them at different distances. And we're just

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Speaker 1: going to dig into that talk a little bit about that.

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Speaker 1: I guess what would you call that experiment if you will.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, experiment test. We're not we didn't do it by

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Speaker 3: any real scientific parameters, but we did the best we could,

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Speaker 3: you know, gave each bullet one chance at performance. But

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Speaker 3: we'll get into that in just a second. First couple announcements,

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Speaker 3: we'll do a little catch up with Jordan, myself and Garrett.

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Speaker 3: Feel free to jump in during the catch up section

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Speaker 3: or the announcement section here up top. If you have

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Speaker 3: anything to add, please do. But we've launched giveaway. This

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Speaker 3: is a meat Eater wide giveaway. It's a chance to

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Speaker 3: win three thousand dollars in awesome hunting gear from all

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Speaker 3: of our brands, along with a personalized outfitting session with

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Speaker 3: yours truly, and that means all of our brands, not

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Speaker 3: just f HF, First Light Phelps, but also the brands

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Speaker 3: that we carry in the media store. So it is

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Speaker 3: a full on Meet Eater shopping spree. And I will

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Speaker 3: get on the phone or zoom whatever you like so

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Speaker 3: you want it to be so we can look at

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Speaker 3: each other. We can do it over Zoom or Google meets,

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Speaker 3: and I will help you dial in your your hunting

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Speaker 3: gear and the gear you might want for your upcoming

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Speaker 3: hunting adventures.

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Speaker 5: It's super fun.

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Speaker 3: I did one of these about a year ago for

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Speaker 3: another giveaway winner, and it was great to help the

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Speaker 3: guy out. He had a few questions and we helped,

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Speaker 3: you know, dial in the specific system that he wanted for.

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Speaker 3: I think we did it for first Light, we did

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Speaker 3: it for some optic stuff. He ended up with a

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Speaker 3: cooler as well. He was definitely one stoked meat Eater

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Speaker 3: listener and reader. So go to metia dot com and uh,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what do you gotta type in Garrett giveaway.

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Speaker 5: I don't have that information here in front of me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the meeater dot com slash will We'll get you there.

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Speaker 2: There's also like some pop ups if you go to

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Speaker 2: the home pages of any of the sites, that should

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Speaker 2: get hit with a pop up for it too.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so giveaway runs from now through May twenty first,

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Speaker 3: so you actually don't have that much time left. I

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Speaker 3: think all all we really want out of it is

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Speaker 3: your email. So go and enter, and then the winner

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Speaker 3: will be randomly picked and contacted on May twenty second. Jordan,

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Speaker 3: how would you like to win that three thousand bucks

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Speaker 3: an awesome hunt gear and then out to help you

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Speaker 3: pick everything out?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be pretty sweet, especially everything on the store,

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Speaker 1: Like there's going to be quite a quite a selection

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Speaker 1: on there. I saw there spearfishing stuff on there last week.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 3: If you live living near the coast or kind can

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Speaker 3: manage flying from somewhere in the middle part of the

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Speaker 3: country out to the coast and do some spearfishing, there's

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Speaker 3: that year is available for you.

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Speaker 2: I just don't know. Sorry to chime in here, but

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Speaker 2: I just don't know if I would utilize Yanni for

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Speaker 2: spearfishing gear recommendations. Like I think you got to kind

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Speaker 2: of play into your hand there a little bit with

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Speaker 2: shooting equipment and like being a tactician in the mountains.

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Speaker 3: Oh hundred percent. If you if you win this shopping

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Speaker 3: spree and you're a spear fisherman, I will make sure

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Speaker 3: that we can and you want spearfishing gear, I'll make

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Speaker 3: sure that we can get Rinella on the line for

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Speaker 3: at least five or ten minutes to help us dial

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Speaker 3: that in.

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Speaker 5: You're you're one hundred percent right, Garrett. All right, on

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Speaker 5: to our.

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Speaker 3: Daily podcasts or I guess we're bi weekly podcast, but

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Speaker 3: we do it on every podcast. Jordan, I catch up

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Speaker 3: a little bit, Jordan. I see in our notes here

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Speaker 3: you're heading to Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, going to Uh, we're gonna go to Lnai and

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Speaker 1: shoot a couple access to her coming up, So big trip.

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Speaker 1: Never been to Hawaii. We're as we record this, we're

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Speaker 1: about a week out from the trip, a little bit

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Speaker 1: over and uh, I'm still in Nebraska, not even in

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Speaker 1: Idaho where all my stuff is. So it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a fun week of smash packing and making sure everything's dialed.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, super looking forward to that. We're gonna stay

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Speaker 1: a couple extra days and hang out like see Pearl

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Speaker 1: Harbor and go do some stuff like that in Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: So pretty pumped for it.

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Speaker 6: What what sort of what weapon are you carrying? I'm

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Speaker 6: going to take a rifle. I'm going to take am Actually,

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Speaker 6: you guys saw it. The sig did a nice little

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Speaker 6: I don't know if you want to call it a

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Speaker 6: birthday gift or something, but they kind of made me

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Speaker 6: a sweet little cross with a carbon fiber barrel and

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Speaker 6: a sweet colorway.

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Speaker 1: It's orange, orange and black. So I'm that's what I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take. Super pumped.

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Speaker 3: Nice save me a steak, would you. That's one animal

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Speaker 3: I keep hearing about and I've yet to have a

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Speaker 3: chunk of axis, So if you could bring me a

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Speaker 3: steak back.

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Speaker 4: For sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have had it, and it is is really

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Speaker 1: it's really good. It's like a got almost like maybe

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a sweetness to it, I would say.

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Speaker 1: And it's super tender the piece that I had anyway,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, super excited about it. But other than that,

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Speaker 1: we're just we're wrapping up turkey season right now in Nebraska.

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Speaker 1: I'm go go pull out blinds and then head back

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Speaker 1: to Idaho in a couple of days. But have you

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Speaker 1: been out for turkeys yet?

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Speaker 5: I have.

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Speaker 3: You were just telling me before we started recording that

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Speaker 3: the turkeys are really starting to go off and hammer

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Speaker 3: and you're done with clients, and you guys are.

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Speaker 4: And we're done.

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Speaker 3: You guys are pulling out at the height the peak,

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Speaker 3: the peak of Goblin. I've been pretty fortunate lately because

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Speaker 3: I've got well, we're down to one as of yesterday,

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Speaker 3: and he might have. We had two toms and four

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Speaker 3: hens right here at the house a couple of evenings.

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Speaker 3: They actually roost right off our little ridge, and so

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Speaker 3: it's nice. I always when I if I know they

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Speaker 3: roosted here, I open up my windows I can listen

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Speaker 3: to him talking in the morning. But yesterday, driving home,

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Speaker 3: I saw one strutting not far off the side of

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Speaker 3: the road, and then as when I was at the

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Speaker 3: house five minutes later, I heard what I thought was

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Speaker 3: a shotgun blast. And then there was only one time

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Speaker 3: that came back with the four ten. So I think

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Speaker 3: someone might have uh what's the word for that when

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Speaker 3: you just swipe them off the road?

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Speaker 5: Mmmm?

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Speaker 4: Form of post.

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Speaker 3: Garrett, you're Almoca, Montana boy. I've known you and I

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Speaker 3: know you've participated at some point in your life and

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Speaker 3: that kind of activity.

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Speaker 2: I uh, you just talk it. I mean we called

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Speaker 2: it road hunting growing up. We didn't know there's.

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Speaker 5: Anything oh yeah, but road hunting, all right, road hunting.

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Speaker 3: Actually, Jordan, you've probably done it just as much as

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Speaker 3: uh as Garrett, because I know in Nebraska at least

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Speaker 3: it was when I hunted back there ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: As long as you're not on the county road, I

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Speaker 3: believe if you're on a for service road you can

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Speaker 3: actually shoot out of your vehicle.

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Speaker 5: Is that still true?

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that. I didn't think that it was

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Speaker 1: public lands that you could do it on. But you

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Speaker 1: can on private as long as your vehicle is stopped.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't even have to be shut off park at

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Speaker 1: least the last time the game warden explained it to us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but on private land, as long as you're stopped, you

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Speaker 1: can shoot out of the vehicle.

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Speaker 3: So fun fact, I suppose unbelievable. I've told this story before,

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Speaker 3: I'll tell it again. Brody Henderson and I were there

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Speaker 3: hunting one time, hunt public ground, and we had just

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Speaker 3: stuffed a buck into the back of the truck and

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Speaker 3: we didn't want really anybody to see it because we

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Speaker 3: didn't want to, you know, kind of say, hey, this

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Speaker 3: is a good spot to hunt. And right as we

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Speaker 3: got a tailgate shut and cracked a beer, here comes

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Speaker 3: a red suburban down this bumpy dirt road kind of

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Speaker 3: down into this canyon that we were in, And I

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Speaker 3: kid you not, every window had a gun barrel pointed

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Speaker 3: out it. Even the driver's window I had a gun

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Speaker 3: barrel pointing out of it. I thought, Holy col here's

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Speaker 3: something I've never seen before. They pull up, friendly as

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Speaker 3: can be. Well, every single crotch there was four four

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Speaker 3: crotches in this vehicle, four gun barrels, four crotches. Every

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Speaker 3: crotch had a I don't know if it was a

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Speaker 3: bush light or what but it was some sort of

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Speaker 3: adult beverage light beer in there, and that was their program,

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Speaker 3: rolling around red suburban gum barrels out the window bush lights.

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Speaker 3: I don't condone that one bit, but it was eye

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Speaker 3: opening to say the least.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I can imagine.

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Speaker 3: All right, I happen to doing some turkey hunting. Steve

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Speaker 3: and I just did our annual TRCP Raffle Sweep Steaks

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Speaker 3: hunt in Michigan. And that's a hunt that we raffle

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Speaker 3: off every Usually the raffle happens in April, so the

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Speaker 3: raffles already ended this year for next year's hunt. But

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Speaker 3: next April April twenty twenty four, you'll be able to apply,

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Speaker 3: buy some raffle tickets and then hopefully win and come

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Speaker 3: and hunt with Steve and I in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: I know, you really got to be thinking ahead for this,

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Speaker 3: but that's how it goes. Everything's a year out. But

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Speaker 3: we just hunted with the They actually weren't the winners

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Speaker 3: from last year.

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Speaker 5: A friend of this guy won it.

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Speaker 3: And it was interesting to me because this guy, I

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Speaker 3: was like, well, why did he even apply if he

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Speaker 3: didn't want to go on this hunt? And their answer was, well,

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Speaker 3: he's into shooting sports, he's into fishing, and he's into conservation,

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Speaker 3: and so he supports RCP and I thought, oh, all right,

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Speaker 3: that's cool. And so when he won, he called up

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Speaker 3: his buddy and said, hey, I just won this trip.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going I'm not interested in it. Do you

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Speaker 3: want to go?

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Speaker 5: In him?

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Speaker 3: And the guy was beside himself. And so we had

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Speaker 3: two really awesome dudes from Illinois. They met us up

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Speaker 3: in Michigan and we had great hunting. I think within

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Speaker 3: three days we killed five gobblers and that included a

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Speaker 3: couple misses. So yeah, it's a great place for a

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Speaker 3: turkey hunt, great place to hang out, uh, great place

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Speaker 3: to make some new friends. So yeah, Steve and I

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Speaker 3: just got done with that. A few days prior to that,

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Speaker 3: I rolled into Wisconsin first to do some habitat improvement

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Speaker 3: slash management on my Wisconsin property.

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Speaker 5: That and with my dad, and holy cow, did we work.

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Speaker 3: I worked. The old guys they worked too, just not

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Speaker 3: quite in this at the same rate and pace and

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Speaker 3: length of day that I did.

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Speaker 5: They're they're you know.

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Speaker 3: They're all they're retired or partially retired, so they're they're

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Speaker 3: not out there trying to bust their asses.

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Speaker 2: But we put in a little did they were they

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Speaker 2: good at instructing at least Janni. They kind of help

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Speaker 2: you out when you needed a little bit of advice.

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Speaker 3: Totally hundred percent, Like when we dug a little pond

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Speaker 3: and I rented the miniacs, and I've messed with the

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Speaker 3: Miniacs enough that I figured I could get this job done. Luckily,

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Speaker 3: my neighbor from the north rolls in. He was just

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Speaker 3: going to stop in and help, maybe run a saarro

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Speaker 3: or whatever. Well, he rolls in with his dad, who.

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Speaker 5: Runs a.

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Speaker 3: Runs a Cranberry bog and basically runs Mini X every

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Speaker 3: single day. So after watching me flounder for five or

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Speaker 3: ten minutes, he's like, what do you want done?

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Speaker 5: And let me get in.

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Speaker 3: There, you know, And so in an hour he got

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Speaker 3: done what I would would have at least taken me

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Speaker 3: the whole day. And I don't even know if I

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Speaker 3: would have finished, because it's just it's awkward, you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, even though the controls are there and you

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Speaker 3: just scoop and move and whatnot, and you just I

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Speaker 3: can do it. It's just I'm doing it at ten

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Speaker 3: percent of the speed as which the season pro doesn't.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, And when we were doing that, everybody was watching.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's giving advice on depth and with and YadA YadA

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Speaker 3: should dos. Yeah, what you should do is this.

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Speaker 5: So I did.

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Speaker 3: When he was done, I to get in and I

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Speaker 3: just drove out down through the woods a little ways

260
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Speaker 3: and just dug my own hole, just so I could

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Speaker 3: say that when I rented this miniac, I dug a

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Speaker 3: hole for no good reason. I'm just gonna see. Maybe

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Speaker 3: it'll collect some water, We'll see. And then I did

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Speaker 3: learn the proper technique form moving. We cut a lot

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Speaker 3: of trees and brushed around this pond, and so instead

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Speaker 3: of trying to pick it up and move it, I

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00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 3: learned how to just push with the uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: with the bucket and got a lot of that stuff

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Speaker 3: moved out of the way. So besides that, I did

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Speaker 3: a whole bunch of hack and squirt on the maples

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Speaker 3: in our woods where we're getting ready to cut. And

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Speaker 3: so basically that you're you're poisoning the uh the maples

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Speaker 3: so that when the oaks are cut, you don't have

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Speaker 3: this crazy maple regeneration.

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Speaker 5: We're gonna have it anyways, but you're basically trying.

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Speaker 3: To give the oaks a better shot and less competition

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Speaker 3: by doing that. The one thing that I where I

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Speaker 3: I put some the most amount of effort and work

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Speaker 3: was we have a ridge top that I wanted to

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Speaker 3: knock down some trees to let more sunlight to the

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Speaker 3: ridge top. And I gotta say, it's a hard thing

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Speaker 3: to do depending on how you were raised, but I

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Speaker 3: definitely had more liberal parents and came up with, you know,

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Speaker 3: don't hurt trees, don't cut trees. Don't use paper bags

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Speaker 3: because you cut trees to use paper bags. Now a

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Speaker 3: paper bag user, because those plastic bags are the devil's product.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a hard thing to do just to

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Speaker 3: go and cut trees down.

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Speaker 5: What's that?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I just said that ideas kind of flipped of

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Speaker 1: the paper bags and plastic bags.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And the idea in my head has kind

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Speaker 3: of flipped about cutting trees. Right, the more I learned

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Speaker 3: about all this stuff and habitat management. If these forests

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Speaker 3: are much more than ten years old, nothing happened in there.

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Speaker 3: Happened as in fire or trees getting cut down or whatever.

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Speaker 3: It might be some kind of disturbance that once all

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Speaker 3: that stuff grows out of you know, above.

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Speaker 5: The reach of any kind of animal.

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Speaker 3: Then they can't feed on it, and there's really not

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00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 3: much value to it, and it becomes what they call

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00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 3: it a close canopy forest, which we have a lot

303
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 3: of where I'm at in Wisconsin, but generally across the Midwest.

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Speaker 3: It looks beautiful. You go in there, you can see

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Speaker 3: two three hundred yards, you know, big oaks and whatever.

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Speaker 3: But if you start to look at the forest floor,

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Speaker 3: there's nothing there. There's no cover, there's no food other

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Speaker 3: than when the acorns dropped for a month out of

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Speaker 3: the year, but otherwise there's no brows in there to eat.

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Speaker 3: So anyways, plant was knocked down a bunch of trees

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Speaker 3: and get some sunlight to it, and holy cow, run

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Speaker 3: it a chainsaw for three straight days. I mean I

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00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 3: was not quite broken, but pretty close. Definitely walking around

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Speaker 3: like an old guy. And I can tell you that

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Speaker 3: all my cuts started kind of rising up the tree,

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Speaker 3: so I didn't have to bend over it as far,

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Speaker 3: and I was my stumps were getting taller. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: my dad and I chipped in and got new steel.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the two sixty one and uh, perfect

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Speaker 3: size for doing that kind of work, not too heavy

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Speaker 3: to lug around in the woods. I used my first

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Speaker 3: light transfer pack. Mark did not like this when I

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Speaker 3: showed him that I had bar oil and gasoline in

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Speaker 3: my in my inn, the same pack that I used

325
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Speaker 3: to hunt white tails.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, dude, this is I just cover.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't heard of white tails being spooked of

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Speaker 2: bar oil yet or gasoline. I mean they hang out

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Speaker 2: next to the road all the time. What's the problem, dude.

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you multiple people, I've been starting to make

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Speaker 3: a lot of phone calls in that area to talk

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Speaker 3: to other people that you know, manage their land intensively

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Speaker 3: like this, and they multiple people have said that those

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00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,639
Speaker 3: deer here that chainsaw and they are waiting two hundred

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00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,239
Speaker 3: yards away for you to leave, and they're gonna come

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00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 3: in there and start feeding because they know that you're

337
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:12,879
Speaker 3: bringing down trees.

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00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 5: They're going to first feed.

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Speaker 3: On the the tops of the trees, all the buds

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00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 3: that are, you know whatever, eighty feet out of reach

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00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 3: for them. Now they're on the forest floor, they can

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00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 3: feed on them. And then a week later there's gonna

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00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,360
Speaker 3: be new growth because of the sunlight that's now being

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00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 3: allowed to hit the ridge top. And so as soon

345
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 3: as I did this and kind of finished up, I said,

346
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 3: I put three cameras up on this ridge, and the

347
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,199
Speaker 3: first night deer were in there using the trails that

348
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 3: I'd created, or not trails, but these sort of kind

349
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 3: of tunnels between all the stuff that I had dropped,

350
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 3: and just like I said, feeding on the on the tops.

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Speaker 3: And now since I've been gone for a week, there's

352
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 3: been more and more use. So so far it seems

353
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 3: to be doing the trick. I gotta say one thing

354
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 3: I wish I would have done before I went to

355
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,400
Speaker 3: try to fell. I bet you I fell somewhere between

356
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, three hundred to five hundred trees. Now,

357
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 3: A lot of these are little mape A lot of

358
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,919
Speaker 3: these are little maples, you know, and just stuff that's small, right,

359
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 3: a couple of inches in diameter, all the way up

360
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 3: to big jack pines and white pines that were I

361
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 3: don't know, not quite two feet probably, Well, a lot

362
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 3: of trees went down, and I thought, I knew I'd

363
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 3: been trained by a professional arborist on how to fell

364
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 3: a tree, but I think I had forgotten just a

365
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 3: couple of things, especially about the angles of the wedge

366
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 3: that you cut out to fell a tree and instead

367
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 3: of so, when I got home, I started doing some

368
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 3: YouTube and on fell in a tree and came upon

369
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,880
Speaker 3: an awesome website.

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00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 5: It is called.

371
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,920
Speaker 3: Website YouTube channel called Guilty of Treason at east Side

372
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,919
Speaker 3: Tree Works. Yeah, and man, these guys, I'm telling you

373
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 3: they people must love trees get getting felled because they've

374
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 3: got quite the following. A lot of their videos have

375
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,639
Speaker 3: a lot of views, and they're absolute masters at what

376
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,679
Speaker 3: they do. And they've got a great video out there,

377
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 3: what's it called the World's Best Tree Felling Tutorial Eight

378
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 3: Ways to Fell a Tree, And they do eight different

379
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 3: types of cuts, which is basically you're gonna cut out

380
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 3: the wedge on one side of the tree, which is

381
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 3: where it's gonna fall, and then you have a back

382
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 3: cut that you know, releases the holding wood. And the

383
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 3: way they had this perfect property where the where there's

384
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 3: ten of these giant uh, I don't know, I didn't

385
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 3: know if they were ponderosis or what, some kind of

386
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 3: really nice tall straight pines, and so they do a

387
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 3: different cut on each one, and I mean they're giants,

388
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 3: and some of them are even leaning towards this house

389
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 3: and they could easily hit land on the house and

390
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 3: they're like, oh yeah, just do this and then you know,

391
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 3: make your hinge woods. It's just it's fascinating and their

392
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 3: pros and I wish I would have watched it before

393
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 3: I went into the woods and did this. So if

394
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 3: you're thinking about going out and doing doing some tinder

395
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 3: timber stand improvement, highly recommend YouTube Guilty of Trees and

396
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: and uh watch what they cheat teach about felling trees

397
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 3: because it's, uh it's fascinating and very educational and you'll

398
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 3: be probably safer.

399
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 5: I tell you.

400
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 3: One thing you'll have less less pinched saw blades. One

401
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 3: thing I didn't have with me was a wedge and

402
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 3: an axe, and uh, I pinched my saw I don't

403
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 3: know half dozen times, which isn't that many for cutting

404
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 3: three hundred trees down, but still it's a pain in

405
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 3: the butt because then you got to start get another

406
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: saw and it gets dangerous.

407
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, man, that's like always my biggest concern when

408
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: I'm out trying to act like I know what I'm doing,

409
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 2: when I like do something like that once every three years,

410
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 2: is getting the sauce stuck, because there's nothing more embarrassing

411
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 2: and nothing that makes you look more like an amateur

412
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: when you step back from your saw and have to

413
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 2: shut it off and you stare up at this tree

414
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 2: not really knowing what to do next, and then you know,

415
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 2: typically it leads to laughing and poking fun at the

416
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: person that has left set saw in the tree.

417
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's there's there's also a moment before you

418
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 3: step away and look up at the tree where you

419
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 3: just step away and put both your hands on the

420
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 3: tree and think, oh, I'll just push it a little bit,

421
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 3: to push it and then remove my saw, and then

422
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 3: you realize that, oh no, these trees are heavy.

423
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, total, So I'm making light of it.

424
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 4: Now my electric wall is going to tackle that job.

425
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 3: Well, actually I was using it when I would pinch

426
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: sure my saw. I was getting my dad's little electric

427
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 3: steel and then coming back and basically, you know, then

428
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 3: felling the tree the way that it wanted to go,

429
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 3: and just leaving my saw pinched until I got rid

430
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: of the tree, and then and then taking mine out.

431
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 5: So yeah, it would it would get it would take

432
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:17,719
Speaker 5: care of that.

433
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 3: But the proper way would be if you've got one

434
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 3: of those leaners and it ain't going the way you

435
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 3: wanted to go. Is you get some wedges and you

436
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 3: start your cut and then you basically back in the

437
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 3: the wedges coming behind your saw blade, and uh that

438
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 3: pushes the tree over. So again, I'm no expert, but

439
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 3: I did watch the YouTube video called the World's Best

440
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 3: Tree Felling Tutorial, so go check it out.

441
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 5: All right, I think we're caught. We're caught up there now,

442
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 5: you know.

443
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: Oh last, but not least, since I'm sitting here scratching

444
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 3: my belly because if freaking itches, because I cannot go

445
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 3: turkey honey anywhere where there's poison oak or poison ivy

446
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 3: without coming back with some Luckily, it's a mild case

447
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 3: for what I've dealt with in the past, and it

448
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 3: seems to already be receding.

449
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 5: But got lye. It just loves me miserable.

450
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, that's like something I've like never had to Like.

451
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 2: It was eye opening when I went down to Texas

452
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: and ran into a briar patch down there, which to me,

453
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: briar patch is like where the bunny rabbits go on cartoons. Right,

454
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: I've never had to deal with them in Montana, and

455
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: the reality of like poison oak a lot. We have

456
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: poison ivy up here, but as you know, like not everywhere,

457
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: it's like pretty tough to find. And then briar's just

458
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 2: like all the stuff that you got to look out

459
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: for when you're not in Montana is amazing that people

460
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 2: still go out there and want to hunt all the time.

461
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: Those briar patches, like did not make sense that you'd

462
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: ever want to go in there and hunt in that.

463
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 3: Well, you don't go in, you don't go through them,

464
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 3: you go around them.

465
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe that was my problem.

466
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've got grizzly bears.

467
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 3: But the the flora around here doesn't really seem to

468
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 3: want to scratch you up too bad. Where that that

469
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: those kind of briar patches you're talking about, it'll destroy

470
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: a set.

471
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 5: Of clothes in a heartbeat. Mm hmmm hmm.

472
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: All right, let's get onto what we all got here

473
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 3: to uh to do, and that's to talk about bullets.

474
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 3: I'm hoping we're gonna actually get in some arguing about

475
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: what's the best bullet, and but before that, we're gonna

476
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,479
Speaker 3: kind of tackle a it's a follow up listener question.

477
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: We're in a previous episode, we discussed uh the best

478
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: hunting caliber. But then Patrick Kirby wrote in via gear

479
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: talk at themea dot com, so you have a question

480
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: right into gear talk at the Mediator dot com and

481
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 3: he asked how to determine if you are under a gunt?

482
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: And I'm guessing that's that came from me. I think

483
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 3: I said something about, hey, you just got to have

484
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 3: the minimum of caliber to get the job done. So

485
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: some of that is is objective, but there are like

486
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 3: while joining you explain there are minimums.

487
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, there are minimums.

488
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: I think like a decent place to start or something

489
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: that you should at least look at, because I think

490
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: some folks don't know that it's even a thing. Is

491
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: a lot of states that you're hunting, they have minimum

492
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: caliber requirements. So I think like here in Nebraska for deer,

493
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: it's like a two forty. It might be twenty two

494
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: to fifty and up or something like that. But that is,

495
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: there are minimum calibers. But you can also get on

496
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: like a ballistic calculator. I tend to like the sig

497
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: sour one just because I've been around it a lot.

498
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: Garrett can speak to this a little bit. There might

499
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: be some more even ones that are just online and

500
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: on an app. And basically what you just need to

501
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: do is enter your bullet weight and your muzzle velocity

502
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: that is coming out of that barrel when you're shooting it,

503
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: and that will give you your energy, and a lot

504
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: of apps will mark it out to distances as well.

505
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: So if you're, what two thousand foot pounds coming out

506
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: at the bar or at the muzzle, then at two

507
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: hundred three hundred yards, it'll show you, like what you

508
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: what your muzzle or your foot pounds of energy should

509
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: be out to that far. A common threshold that I

510
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: found throughout a couple of websites, game and fish websites

511
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: for an ELK is fifteen hundred foot pounds. So you

512
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: can run your bullet data through and you can say,

513
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: all right, well, I'm definitely okay at the muzzle for

514
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: my velocity, but out to let's say I only to

515
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: meet that minimum, I can I should only shoot out

516
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: to like four hundred yards or something that's theoretical, but yeah, yeah.

517
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: And SIGs binos. I think there's a setting in there,

518
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 2: Jordan crist me if I'm wrong, where you can have

519
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: it like flash at you when you're beyond your energy

520
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: threshold that you want to shoot at or something. There's

521
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: like a limitter there where you can see through the

522
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: I think the ten k's like, am I beyond that

523
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 2: threshold I want to be at? For energy? The other

524
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: thing that I would like add to that too is,

525
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: you know, energy is a big deal. I can't remember

526
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: what minimum thresholds if people like to be at are,

527
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: but velocity I would say per bullet that you're shooting.

528
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: I know Yanni and I will probably get into it

529
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: talking about this experiment, But a lot of these bullets,

530
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: they they perform differently at different speeds, whether you're shooting

531
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: copper or like a cup and core, and they need

532
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: minimum velocities to perform and expand. So that's maybe just

533
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: as important as energy is looking at the bullet that

534
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: you're shooting and how fast it needs to go to

535
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: open up and do the thing that it needs to do.

536
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think most of them hover around eighteen hundred

537
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: feet a second. Is somewhere in that range is going

538
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: to be minimum for most bullets to work.

539
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: And a bullet will tell you that like a manufacturer,

540
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: like on the box will they tell you that, or

541
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: at least on their website. Yeah, all right, we are

542
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: diving into the main section of this podcast with Garrett.

543
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: We are going to talk about this video that you

544
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: and Yanni did six months ago talking about different types

545
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,239
Speaker 1: of bullets, because so, can you give us an rundown of, like,

546
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: what was the idea behind this copper versus led video

547
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: and why you wanted to do it?

548
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 5: You want to tackle Garrett?

549
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, So Janny and I were kind of talking

550
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: about this for a while, but really where the stem

551
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: from is we've seen ballistic gel tests done on like

552
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: comparing bullets, Like you can type in ballistic gel tests

553
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: and get a lot of results. What we hadn't seen

554
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: is testing the different types of bullets at variable ranges

555
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: and through different mediums, meaning like a clear gel versus

556
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: gel with bone in it. We'd like we could find

557
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: tests where people were going like cup and core versus

558
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: a bonded bullet, but they were all at like one

559
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: hundred yard tests, and so we thought the market was

560
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: lacking in a test at other hunting ranges. There's some

561
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: of us that liked to poke out around five hundred

562
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: yards and stuff, and what's the difference in bullet performance

563
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: out at that range? Versus one hundred yards. So we

564
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: kind of put this together as a hey, choose your

565
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: bullet based off of how you're hunting and what you're hunting,

566
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: not just like what the optimal performance is at one

567
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: hundred yards through a clear ballistic Joe.

568
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: Can you explain you talked about you guys use a

569
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: copper bullet, a cup and corp bullet, and a bonded

570
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: lad bullet. Can you talk about those three different types

571
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: of bullets and kind of what they're what the idea

572
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: is behind them.

573
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeohanni, you want me to hit that or are you

574
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 2: going to take that one?

575
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 5: Uh?

576
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can tag team for sure. Start off with

577
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 3: your favorite, Garrett, the cup and core. We'll cut to

578
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 3: the chase. I know what your favorite is?

579
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but full disclosure man during that video. We

580
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: have video proof of it. I was a huge bonded

581
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: fan like that bullet expanded. It was just like it

582
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: was a picture perfect expansion every time at every range,

583
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: from five hundred yards out all the way into one hundred.

584
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: It looked like a commercial for that bullet. It was

585
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: exceptional and through the gel it was hard not to

586
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: pick it as the winner. It was the most consistent Uh,

587
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: it created quite a lot of shock in the gel

588
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: while you know, we weighted afterwards and we were getting

589
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: like ninety nine zero point nine percent weight retention. When

590
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: we consider lead bullets and environmental factors, that's a big

591
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: deal too, as well as meat loss. So it was great.

592
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: I've since changed my mind because of some of the

593
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 2: intangibles that I don't think we captured in those in

594
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: that gel test. And that's after a season of using

595
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: bonded slash. You know, I used like the eldx's a

596
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: lot this year, which is it has a lot of

597
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: bonded properties. In terms of weight retention, I'd say it's

598
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: like a better expanding or a more rapid expanding bonded bullet,

599
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: but it still retains weight really well. And everything that

600
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: got shot died. I want to preface that they all died.

601
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: They did not die in the way that I hoped

602
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: that they would or at the rate And so I

603
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: had this year, everything that I was testing bonded bullets

604
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: with was out of a six or five PRC and

605
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: everything that got hit ran like and ran fast, and

606
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: they might only go fifty yards, but they they didn't

607
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: have that classic stop in their tracks that when you're

608
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: hunting some timber if you don't have a lot of

609
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: snow on the ground, like the things that I like

610
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: to see in bullet performance. And then the only two

611
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: animals that were killed with in full disclosure, like straight

612
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: up match Ammo, like did the full on you know,

613
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: hashtag dirt nap kind of thing right where they just

614
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: and they were all at sub five hundred but between

615
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: four and five hundred yards like stopped right there. And

616
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: that's what you get out of a you know, a

617
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 2: rapid expansion or sometimes exploding cup and core bullet.

618
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 5: All right, you got off track a little bit and.

619
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 4: What that means.

620
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: But Yanni was going to course correct me here. I

621
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: feel like I did get off track because I got excited.

622
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, you just had to explain what the cup

623
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 3: and core bullet is and then also explain what match

624
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: grade is.

625
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, so cup and core is like you're very

626
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: basic AMMO type that most of us grew up shooting,

627
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: where it's literally a core lead piece with a cup

628
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: of copper like molded around it, but they're not attached.

629
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 3: The best known cup and core is probably the Remington

630
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 3: core locked.

631
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's frankly it's what everybody shot up

632
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: until not very long ago. And then when I talk

633
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: match Amo, it's when you when you think of like

634
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: some Burger targets, Sierra match kings, those type of bullets

635
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 2: Hornity has like an E L d M. Generally those

636
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: are associated with like their primary UH purpose is creating

637
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: very repeatable, perfect bullet shapes. Generally they have a softer

638
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: face or a thinner cup, and because of that they

639
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: blow up when they hit right like they have a

640
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 2: lot of expansion when they hit whatever it is that

641
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: they're going to hit. If you can balance that, I've

642
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: just found if you can balance that with speed, people's

643
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: base concern is penetration. If you can balance out with speed,

644
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: I feel like you still get the penetration that you're

645
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: looking for, even on an exploding bullet. But that's the

646
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: basic design of.

647
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 4: A cup and core I got it for bullet performance.

648
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 1: Like on an animal, are you looking for, like you know,

649
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: two holes or do you want that bullet to explode?

650
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: What's what's your take on that?

651
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: I like all of the energy shedding in the animal. Frankly,

652
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: based off of this last hunting season, two holes are

653
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: great for blood tracking. Turns out though if they die

654
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 2: standing there, you don't really have to blood track them

655
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: very much. So I I do. Like when a bullet

656
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,959
Speaker 2: goes in there, it goes from twenty five hundred feet

657
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 2: per second to zero and it all stops right there.

658
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: Okay, before we get too much more into performance, let's

659
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 3: cover off on bonded and then the copper bullet, which

660
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: is the two others that we tested. So the bonded

661
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 3: is similar to that cup and core in that there

662
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 3: is a core within an outside shell or jacket as

663
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 3: they call it, but the two have been chemically bonded

664
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: together so that they just retain weight better and they

665
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 3: hold together better, and you don't get that crazy rapid

666
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 3: expansion and explosion in air quotes type effect where the

667
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: bullet shatters into a bunch of little pieces. The bonded

668
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: bullet is made to stay together better longer, not lose

669
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 3: any of its front end. You get high weight retention

670
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: and probably better penniture, should get better penetration. And then

671
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 3: finally the third one was the copper bullet, which some

672
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 3: of them are not one hundred percent copper. They call

673
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: them what's the term garrett when it's like a blend,

674
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: but it's a copper bullet, it's an amalgam.

675
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's escaping me right now.

676
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 3: All right, look it up. But some of the all

677
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 3: copper bullets are actually not one hundred percent uh uh copper,

678
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: you know, they're blended with some other things. Barnes has

679
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 3: been doing that long long time.

680
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: Uh.

681
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 3: I'm not one hundred percent sure on this, but I

682
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 3: think the Barnes was doing that. The reasoning was because

683
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 3: they felt like those all copper projectiles were just were

684
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 3: better across a lot of different performance standards than other bullets,

685
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,959
Speaker 3: which is why they started making them. Then came along

686
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 3: the hey, let's not shoot lead deal, and so people

687
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: were looking more for copper bullets and they were in

688
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: the right place at.

689
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 5: The right time.

690
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: I I when I first found out about Barnes, it

691
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 3: was because I watched a guy shoot and I big

692
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 3: five point bull and he dirt napped him and I said, WHOA,

693
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: what's that bullet?

694
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: Right?

695
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 3: We've we recovered it. It was just in the far

696
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: side of the hide and I looked at it and

697
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 3: I said, wow, that's cool. And he goes, oh, yeah,

698
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 3: you know, I've been reloading these for years, great success,

699
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: YadA YadA.

700
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 5: YadA.

701
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 3: So but again the copper, uh usually because it's a

702
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 3: little bit lighter than lead, so it's a longer profile.

703
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 3: So it gives you a little bit of a higher BC,

704
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 3: higher sexual density, and uh maybe a little bit less

705
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: fouling in your barrel.

706
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: And I think a correction there, Yanni, though, is sectional

707
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: density I think is lower?

708
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 3: Is it?

709
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: Because the sectional density of copper is less than lead.

710
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: That's why your bullet has to be longer to achieve

711
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 2: the same weight, and that's generally why speed and twist

712
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: can be a little bit more of an shoot with copper.

713
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 3: Okay, my understanding, So I stay corrected, less sexual density

714
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 3: but sometimes higher BC's right.

715
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think you're right too that that

716
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: Barns I think was like the iconic copper bullet that

717
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: before the don't shoot lead kind of stuff started. I

718
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: think they were mainly looking for penetration out at distance, right.

719
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: They needed a bullet that would stay together and punch

720
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: through an elk shoulder, you know, at five hundred.

721
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: Yards, well, I think at any at any I mean

722
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 3: that was because they were probably making those before they

723
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: were making bonded bullets even and so I think they

724
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: just needed at any distance. They needed a bullet that

725
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,479
Speaker 3: had a you know, super high structural integrity. And whether

726
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 3: it's an elk or if you're going to Africa to

727
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: shoot some big game. You know that a lot of

728
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 3: this bullet discussion can be around or can be sort

729
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: of guided by you know, what are you going to

730
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 3: be shooting it at? And then and then at what

731
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 3: range you're going to be shooting it at? Because no

732
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 3: one's going to go shoot a cup and core bullet

733
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: at a dangerous game animal. I can tell you that much,

734
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 3: right right, Yep, maybe some maybe a thin skinned cat,

735
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 3: but I would expect they wouldn't mess around with that

736
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 3: thing either, with that bullet. So anyways, there's a three

737
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 3: different types. Those are three different types that we tested.

738
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: And uh, yeah, I don't know, Jordan, do you want

739
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 3: to go into, uh like what we actually did in

740
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 3: the test and what we saw in the test?

741
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that would be super helpful

742
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: and maybe you know, we can cliff note it just

743
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I think you know, going through

744
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: the test and how you guys did it'd be super beneficial.

745
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: Sure, well, Gary, you pretty much explained what the test

746
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 3: was to but just to recap quickly. Five hundred three

747
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: hundred and I think one hundred and fifty yards ish

748
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 3: was the last distance we shot six to five creed

749
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 3: more the uh, let me see. The three that we

750
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 3: tested was one hundred and twenty grain Federal Trophy copper,

751
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty five grain Federal Burger Hybrid hunter,

752
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: which was the cup and core, and then the the

753
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty grain Federal Terminal ascent, which was

754
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 3: the bonded bullet, and we had each one up. We

755
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 3: shot at two different gels at each of those distances,

756
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: one gel with no scalpula in it and then one

757
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 3: gel with a deer scalpula in it. Going into it,

758
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: I thought that we would see the crazy like short range,

759
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: short range within the gel destruction from the cup and core,

760
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 3: and then we would see you know, better penetration, you know,

761
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 3: longer penetration with the other two bullets. That's sort of

762
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 3: what I was expecting. And I didn't think that it

763
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 3: was going to change too much whether you hit the

764
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 3: scapula or not, would you think, Garrett.

765
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 2: Uh, Yeah, Going into it, I thought the scapula would

766
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: actually change it a lot, right, Like I thought at

767
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,919
Speaker 2: five hundred yards, we would see the cup and core

768
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: struggle with penetration, and that it would perform the best

769
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: at kind of like that mid range, and that at

770
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: longer distance we would see the copper really outperform the

771
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: others because of the penetration factor, like it would just out.

772
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: We would see like the result of a copper or

773
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: even the bonded bullet getting that penetration at range, regardless

774
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: of scapula or not.

775
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think too.

776
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 3: It's it's the fact that it was only a deer scapula,

777
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: which is just you know, if you've ever actually butchered,

778
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 3: if you've butchered your own deer and taken a part

779
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 3: of deer's shoulder, that deer scalpula ways, I don't know,

780
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 3: four to six maybe four to eight ounces. I mean

781
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: I doubt it weighs a half a pound. I mean,

782
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 3: it's a pretty light small bone, and sure it's a

783
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 3: little bit harder than say gel or meat, but uh,

784
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: it's definitely not an elk scapula or a moose scapula, right.

785
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, I think if we had to redo it,

786
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 2: I would like go down to the local butcher shop

787
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: and grab some like cow scapulas, right, yeah, and really

788
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: try to do something because I I would say it

789
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: was almost a non factor, right, Like it increased the

790
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 2: results of the bullets, Like it was just a little

791
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 2: bit more drastic, but it was so minimal that without

792
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 2: dissecting it with slow mo and the camera setups that

793
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 2: we had, it like, it'd be very hard to tell

794
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: the difference. Yeah.

795
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So general results of what we saw was, uh,

796
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: I guess we can start. We can start for whatever

797
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 3: we shot from far, and then we went closer and

798
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 3: at distance the cup and core, because of its you know,

799
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 3: lesser structural integrity, it still you know, expanded and did

800
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 3: its thing at that distance, while the bonded and the

801
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 3: copper did a little bit less. The bonded still mushroomed

802
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: pretty dang good, and the copper was at that distance

803
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: you would say, eh, like that's not the best, you know,

804
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 3: like I'm sure it would still kill an animal, but

805
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: it's just the holes not as big, the pedals weren't

806
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 3: as big, so you're just not getting that, you know,

807
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: the spinning giant pedals going through the animal, you know,

808
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:08,959
Speaker 3: when those petals open up off that bullet, And yeah,

809
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: I think that that would be the one time you'd say, yeah,

810
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: I don't know if that copper was perfect for that.

811
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 3: Like I said, it's still probably, but it just didn't

812
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 3: have enough energy.

813
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean shot placement is king. But I would

814
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: tell folks that'll go look at that video that that

815
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 2: copper bullet at the five hundred yard distance, it looked

816
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: like it was just wearing a little hat right, like

817
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: those petals barely trimmed back. If I the cup and core,

818
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 2: it actually didn't do as much as I thought it

819
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: would at five hundred but that if you watch that video,

820
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: the tip of that bullet ripped off and it created

821
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: like a ton of yaw in it, so it still

822
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: ended up almost like tumbling through the gel, which when

823
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: you watch the slow mo still create like that. You know,

824
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 2: whether you want to call it hydrostatic shock or whatever,

825
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: it's created like a lot of shockwaves to the gel

826
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: just from that bullet tumbling. But I would say the

827
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,959
Speaker 2: most the prettiest one out of the five hundred yard

828
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: was definitely the bonded like it. I was surprised how

829
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: well it expanded.

830
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it did the trick, and again not too

831
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 3: much difference, you know between scapula and no scapula. Like

832
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: you said, it caused the bullets to do a little

833
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: bit more expanding, but not that much. And then distance wise,

834
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 3: I can't remember as far as actual penetration that did

835
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 3: at that distance, I'm guessing the bond in the coppers

836
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 3: still outperformed the cup and core right as far as

837
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: just straight penetration goes.

838
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they just barely made it out of

839
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: that eighteen inch block right into the secondary block. And

840
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 2: then I think the cup and core, if I remember right,

841
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 2: stopped like right. Well, it actually in one are the

842
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 2: ways you can see it. I think it barely came

843
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: out of the gel at a point where it like

844
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 2: laid down next to it, like the on the plywood

845
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: like behind it. It just like barely poked out and

846
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: flopped down right, so it stopped there. I like something

847
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: we didn't get to talk about in the video. With

848
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 2: the bonded bullet, it performed really well. Man, it was

849
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: hard to hit that little block with that bonded bullet.

850
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 2: I just don't think that I saw the consistency in

851
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: terms of accuracy out of that. Now, all guns shoot

852
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: bullets differently, but I do know bondeds are inherently. Typically

853
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: they're less accurate because of that chemical process creating inconsistency. So,

854
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: for whatever it's worth, it was it was the one

855
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 2: that was most nervous about hitting, you know, really like

856
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: a minute of angle sized target and not even a

857
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: minute of angle because that scapula righty, he was like

858
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 2: three and a half inches four inches across, right, and

859
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: we're trying to center punch it. That made me the

860
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: most nervous, considering that the heat that we were dealing with,

861
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: trying to get stuff going before wind. It was tough

862
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 2: with that bonded bullet.

863
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, moving into three hundred yards, Uh, what

864
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: do we see, Garrett? About the same.

865
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it was just like more of it, right,

866
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: the copper bullet, instead of just having like a little

867
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: hat on top of it, seemed to peel back a

868
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: little more. I was still disappointed in it, man, Like,

869
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 2: I still felt like I would have liked to see

870
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: copper expand more than what it did. The bonded expanded

871
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: as it did at five hundred, just even more so.

872
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: And then I think that's where we did start seeing

873
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,919
Speaker 2: that cup and core come apart more.

874
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: Yea, And.

875
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it was just it was similar

876
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: results comparing him to each other. It was just more

877
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 2: draft astick bullet to bullet.

878
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and definitely the scapula seemed to take more energy

879
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 5: and almost explode, and a lot of times we had

880
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 5: the scapula actually fragments of it leaving the gel when

881
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 5: those bullets would hit it would kind of blow it

882
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 5: out of there.

883
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

884
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: It is something to note on that too that we

885
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 2: saw at all the ranges, but I think three hundred

886
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 2: was the best example. Both the copper and bonded expanded fast.

887
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 5: Man.

888
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: If you remember, right, the cup and core kind of

889
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: left this like little tiny hole in the scapula and

890
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 2: then came apart almost after that, almost like center mass

891
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 2: of the gel, and that those bonded and copper bullets

892
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 2: they were like full expansion mode going into the scapula

893
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: and those scapulas were gone.

894
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was a real big surprise, not what

895
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 3: you'd expect to see the cup and core actually make

896
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: it through what was it like four or five inches

897
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 3: of gel and then the scapula, yeah, right, and then

898
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 3: it would it would start to you know, expand and

899
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 3: it and actually the one that had just the gel,

900
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 3: it was similar, right, it made it four or five

901
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 3: inches and then started to do its thing, where again

902
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 3: the bonded in the copper, UH started to do its

903
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: thing right right off the bat, which you know, it

904
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 3: could be just the amount of design and engineering that

905
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 3: goes into each one of these bullets, right, That's what

906
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 3: you get when you pay for more of a premium bullet.

907
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 3: Is somebody's you know, there's an engineer that made the

908
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 3: bullet to start expanding as soon as it hits anything, right.

909
00:51:47,840 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: Yep, Garrett, have you heard those cup and Corr bullets

910
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: that are like the burger At closer distances, I would

911
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: say within three hundred that folks will just get like

912
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: two pinholes through the animal, especially if they don't hit

913
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: a bone.

914
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: I've heard that. I haven't witnessed it personally, like I've

915
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: shot a lot of critters or witnessed it with a

916
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: lot of critters with a burger, and I've never once

917
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 2: seen them pinhole. And I think, as Yanni brings up

918
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: this kind of one hundred and forty yard shot, something

919
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: I was going to point out across the spectrum, we

920
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: saw nearly the same amount of penetration from these bullets

921
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: at one hundred, three hundred and five hundred yards. It

922
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 2: was just that they were expanding more so they couldn't

923
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 2: go as far, but they had more speed, and it's

924
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 2: almost like they just balanced out perfectly. Like Cup and

925
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 2: Core almost always stayed in the first jel, regardless of

926
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 2: five hundred or one hundred and forty or one hundred

927
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 2: and ten, whatever it was, Yanni, and I think the

928
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 2: same was said for Copper and bonded. They all had

929
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 2: like the same amount of penetration. It's just that since

930
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 2: they expanded more at the shorter distances, it had a

931
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: harder time pushing through the jail.

932
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 4: Got it.

933
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, If anything, Jordan, I've heard and I actually remember,

934
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 3: it was a you know, it was a nozzler ACU

935
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 3: bond out of a three hundred weather be I'm guessing

936
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 3: it was a one eighty. It might have been a

937
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 3: two hundred grainer. But a buddy of mine shot at

938
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 3: Elkott was forty or fifty yards close for that gun,

939
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: and you would think that it would just bowl that

940
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 3: thing over right. It killed him. I can't remember exactly

941
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 3: what the shot placement was. This was twenty years ago.

942
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 3: He probably shot him right behind the shoulder. But that

943
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 3: bullet could not take that that extreme amount of energy

944
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 3: speed velocity at that short distance, because I'm guessing it

945
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 3: was coming out of there.

946
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 5: I don't know.

947
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 3: Would you guess three hundred weather be one hundred and

948
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 3: eighty grainer Garrett, mean that's thirty one? Yeah, I was

949
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 3: going to say thirty one, even like it's it's cooking.

950
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 3: And that bullet did not go through, didn't go to

951
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 3: the far side. It went in halfway and had it

952
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 3: expanded like crazy and sort of came apart like a

953
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 3: like a cup and core. But the bull ran off

954
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 3: and died right fifty yards later. Now, I'm sure if

955
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 3: he would have shot it right on the shoulder, probably

956
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 3: would have dirt napped it right there. Again, depends on

957
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 3: where you shoot him. But it seems to me like

958
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,760
Speaker 3: at those close, super close ranges, it's super hot speeds

959
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 3: that instead of pencil holding, you're going to see more

960
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 3: of the opposite where the bullet it just hits with

961
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 3: such speed that the the structure can't take it and

962
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,479
Speaker 3: so it blows up versus pinholing through.

963
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 2: Mm hmm yep.

964
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 3: But let's let's talk a little bit about that garret,

965
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 3: because I want to come back to your last Fall

966
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 3: hunting season and all the Cup, Match Grade, Cup and

967
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 3: Core killing that you did. What was the shot placement

968
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 3: and what were you aiming for? And then what what

969
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 3: what ended up being a shot placement and did you

970
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 3: try different ones?

971
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did. I did some killing with match Grade,

972
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: Cup and Core, but that's mostly what I've shot in

973
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: the past. This year, I spent more time on Bonded

974
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 2: or e l d x's again, like there's gonna be

975
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 2: some gun nerds out there that are gonna be like

976
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 2: Bonded and eld x's are different. They kind of go

977
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: after the same traits though in terms of trying to

978
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 2: like that weight retention type bullet the on the match great, ammo.

979
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 2: It was all like very typical behind the shoulder type

980
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: shot placements. I've never been like a real big shoulder

981
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 2: like high shoulder shooter. I know there's guys that like

982
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,760
Speaker 2: to go for that for that kind of classic stopping

983
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 2: their tracks, highlight reel shot. But I mean, I've got

984
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: video of and I sent this video I think to

985
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 2: both of you guys, but that mule deer I shot

986
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 2: this year with a six to five pretty more at

987
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: five hundred and twenty five yards with one hundred and

988
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 2: thirty grand Cup and Core Burger. That bullet hit two

989
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 2: inches behind the front shoulder, did not exit, and it

990
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 2: was about as like, you know, violent of a put

991
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 2: down that you could have right, and that happened on

992
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 2: both him and another mule. Dear that that little creed

993
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: more shot this year with match am I mean that

994
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 2: is straight up burger match, Ammo. Did you want to

995
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 2: go into the eld x is one, Yanni?

996
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, yeah, mostly So that's my question was

997
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 3: where were you shooting him? And so you were shooting

998
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 3: him actually behind the shoulder. That was your your goat,

999
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 3: go to shot placement.

1000
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the reason for that we talked about this

1001
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 2: in the video. But I don't think cup and core

1002
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: bullets need help expanding, right. I think shoulder shot placement

1003
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: helps a bullet like maybe a copper rip open a

1004
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: little bit more. But the biggest concern you have when

1005
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 2: shooting Cup and Core is meat loss. And as you know, Yanni,

1006
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: you creep up into that shoulder with a Cup and

1007
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 2: Core and you're going to have that conversation with your

1008
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 2: buddy on whether or not it's worth packing out that

1009
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: shoulder right, because it's usually going to be pretty well destroyed.

1010
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: Yep, yep. I shot my prom horn last year long

1011
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 3: range for me. Think it was five sixty and it

1012
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 3: was that it was it was a croco that he

1013
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 3: pronounced that soroco sorocco.

1014
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1015
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 3: Anyways, we all know how the prong horn has that

1016
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 3: perfect where it's white belly fur rides up onto its

1017
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 3: side right behind its shoulder and it makes there's a

1018
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 3: nice corner and then it streaks across it's belly going

1019
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 3: you know, horizontally in that white corner. You can't ask

1020
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 3: for a better aiming point. And my bullet hit exactly there,

1021
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 3: which I thought was going to be a little bit

1022
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 3: behind the shoulder, and I mean it barely clipped both shoulders,

1023
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 3: and it might I think he might have been quartering

1024
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 3: one way or the other little bit. So it went

1025
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 3: through the other shoulder just by a couple of inches

1026
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 3: and man on both shoulders. We were having that conversation

1027
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 3: like I trimmed out a solid thirty percent of me

1028
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 3: and just left it in the field, and uh, yeah,

1029
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: it's a bummer, but you're gonna you're gonna lose some shoulder.

1030
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 5: Hard not to.

1031
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, we can get into this, but

1032
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 2: there's no perfect bullet, right, and we talked about it

1033
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 2: in the video. Depending on the bullet you're shooting, you

1034
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 2: really got to pay attention to shot placement because nobody

1035
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: goes out there to leave, you know, one or two

1036
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: of the four quarters or like cutting them up and

1037
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 2: you know, trying to make burger dog treats out of

1038
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of gelatinous meat. That's not why we're out there.

1039
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 3: No, no, Yeah, it's a bummer. And I will say

1040
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 3: that's always been one of the reasons I like shooting

1041
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: the copper because I feel like I've had even punching

1042
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 3: them straight in the scapular or busting the humorous, it

1043
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 3: just seems like that zone hole, you know, the area

1044
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 3: around the hole is smaller where you have that purple

1045
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 3: bloodshot meat, and you just end up doing a lot less,

1046
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 3: a lot less trimming your yields a little bit higher.

1047
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and uh, I guess to kind of dive

1048
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 2: into shot placement then for the bonded bullets that I

1049
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 2: was hunting with this year, I crept a little bit

1050
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: more into that shoulder understanding the weight retention aspects of it, man,

1051
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: I'll just get into I know I already like jumped

1052
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: the gun and started talking about this. But in every

1053
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 2: case that six or five PRC like, the bullet placements

1054
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 2: were awesome and I can't claim all of them. Dan

1055
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: used it for two animals, my wife used my rifle

1056
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 2: for a couple of animals. A buddy of mine used

1057
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: my rifle for an animal. The shot placements were all

1058
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 2: pretty good, and all the animals ended up dying. They

1059
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 2: just all ran off the ways and not like I

1060
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 2: got hit by a bullet and now I'm gonna run,

1061
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 2: but just like, look at your buddy and go did

1062
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 2: you hit it? And in one case, I think, what's scared?

1063
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 2: And I know this is a this is one data point.

1064
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: But what had me transition over to the cup and

1065
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 2: core again was a friend of mine with my PRC

1066
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 2: shot a cow elk not extreme range. I think she

1067
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 2: was at like right around four to twenty five or

1068
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: something like. For that gun and bullet set up is

1069
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 2: very achievable. When he shot her, the that cow immediately

1070
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 2: went behind a tree to where we couldn't see her anymore.

1071
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 2: We waited a long time. Which bullet was the hunting

1072
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: a long time. This was the eld X. She went

1073
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 2: behind a tree. We could tell she was standing, but

1074
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,919
Speaker 2: the other cows are just kind of staring at her

1075
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 2: right like then know what to do? I think it

1076
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:03,959
Speaker 2: was the lead cow waited long enough where I told

1077
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 2: my buddy like, listen, I'm going I've got an elk

1078
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: tag as well, give me my rifle. I'm going to

1079
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: shoot another elk and then it should get him to

1080
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 2: come out onto that hillside where shooting suppressed and at

1081
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 2: that range, like they didn't really know where the shot

1082
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 2: came from, things like that, And I was like, that

1083
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 2: other elk is going to come out, I'll hand you

1084
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 2: back the rifle, and you know if you hit her.

1085
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 2: We literally didn't know at that point, but if you

1086
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 2: hit her, you'll at least regardless field to take a

1087
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 2: follow up shot. So I did shot a cow typical thing.

1088
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: She took off running right and my buddy I kind

1089
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 2: of yells, He's like, I don't know if you hit it,

1090
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 2: and he was on glass when I shot. She ended

1091
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 2: up running about fifty yards and toppled over. At that point,

1092
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: the cow that he originally shot handed him back to

1093
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 2: the rifle came running out and I yelled, do him.

1094
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 2: There's a blood spot on the top of that cow

1095
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 2: elk's shoulder, and he could see it through the scope.

1096
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 2: The first one that he shot shot her, and that

1097
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 2: one was perfect placement behind the shoulder, about halfway up.

1098
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it was just like right where you want

1099
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 2: to be. The way that she went down, though we

1100
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 2: didn't know where that bullet placement was, it looked like

1101
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 2: kind of like a high like backbone type shot. The

1102
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 2: way that she fell down, we all know, like that

1103
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,919
Speaker 2: kind of classic like ass first leg, you know, kind

1104
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 2: of thing. So we hustled. I'm like, I think you

1105
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 2: hit her high. Let's get up there. Got up there,

1106
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 2: and she was dead when we started gutting her out

1107
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 2: pulling back hide. Two things that were strange to me. One,

1108
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: that first bullet was where like if you were an

1109
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 2: archery hunter, everybody gets nervous, right, it's in that kind

1110
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 2: of high shoulder void. However, the back was broke, but

1111
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 2: it wasn't from the second bullet. And the only way

1112
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: we can figure it is that that when he hit

1113
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: her with that second bullet, that that spine must have

1114
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 2: already been fractured or compromised a little bit. And then

1115
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 2: the shock of that second bullet hitting like broke it

1116
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 2: all the way right, But it didn't on that first shot,

1117
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 2: And we were talking about it on the mountain and

1118
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 2: we both like, in my opinion, if that first shot

1119
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,439
Speaker 2: would have been a cup and core, that elk would

1120
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 2: have went straight down. Even if it would have just

1121
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 2: been a spine like high spine shot, I think it

1122
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: would have blown up enough where it would have created

1123
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 2: terminal damage.

1124
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 3: What if he had crept too far forward and punched

1125
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 3: the humorous or the bottom of the scapula, do you

1126
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 3: think then that it would a cup and cor it'll

1127
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 3: go right down.

1128
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 2: I still think it would have created enough damage that

1129
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,040
Speaker 2: it would have stopped it right. And I think that

1130
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 2: was my biggest complaint on the Bonded and Eldx's is

1131
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 2: that regardless of where they got hit, it seemed like

1132
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 2: they just took off and they didn't get present any

1133
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 2: other follow up opportunities. And I think, like, look, we

1134
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 2: always want to have perfect shot placement, but if you've

1135
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: been hunting long enough, everyone agrees it doesn't always happen.

1136
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 2: And I think that that a cup and core would

1137
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 2: have at least created enough shock inside that critter where

1138
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 2: it would have just stopped there.

1139
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 3: Interesting, yeah, because I still get a little bit nervous

1140
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 3: about that cup and core that. You know, even if

1141
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 3: you did it ten times in a row, right and

1142
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 3: it blows up, it stops and they don't go anywhere.

1143
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 3: What if it blows up and you have that crazy

1144
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 3: ball up where it just all goes diagonally back towards

1145
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 3: the liver right and into the into the guts, right,

1146
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 3: then you're going to have the same same results as

1147
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 3: you did with the with the bonded back there.

1148
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think we all agreed in that

1149
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 2: video that cup and core was less predictable, yeah, than

1150
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 2: the bonded in copper. Like bonded and copper kept a

1151
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 2: pretty straight line. The only predictable thing about cup and

1152
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 2: core is it generally created a lot of damage and

1153
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 2: shock within the gel. And what was reassuring as I

1154
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 2: went back and watched that video through hunting season is, yeah,

1155
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 2: the amount of yaw or you know, whatever you want

1156
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: to call it from that cup and core coming apart,

1157
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 2: not in a very concentric way, like it kind of

1158
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: just went all over the place. It's still got decent

1159
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 2: amount of penetration regardless of distance because it just it didn't.

1160
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 2: It came apart more or less depending on the distance,

1161
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 2: and so we were still seeing. I mean, eighteen inches

1162
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 2: of penetration is more than enough to hit the stuff

1163
01:06:59,280 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 2: that we need to hit.

1164
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have to do it again and shoot it

1165
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 3: through a little bit heavier duty medium.

1166
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. Yeah, I think, like you know, the hide,

1167
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 2: I would love to do it again with the hide

1168
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 2: on the front to start the expansion process a little earlier.

1169
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 2: I would like to see what a cup and core

1170
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 2: does there versus a bonded and then a thicker like plan,

1171
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 2: Like let's look at worst case scenarios, Yanni, and do

1172
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 2: like a big cow scapula or humorous right, like we're

1173
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 2: trying to shoot through massive bone. Because I haven't witnessed it,

1174
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 2: I've heard about it. I've never witnessed the cup and

1175
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 2: core exploding on the outside of a scapula, but we've

1176
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 2: all heard about it. Right Where like zero penetration catastrophic

1177
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 2: to the hunter anyways, just like nothing bad getting hit,

1178
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 2: like as far as vitals.

1179
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jordan, you ever had any major like misses or

1180
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,919
Speaker 3: failures from bullets of any kind on Big Game?

1181
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 2: Man?

1182
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: The only thing that really, I hit a bull one

1183
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: time with a burger with a one forty.

1184
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 4: It's just a one forty burger. I'm pretty sure.

1185
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 3: Just so everybody's clear, that burger one forty is which

1186
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 3: style of bullet.

1187
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 1: Cup and corkay yep. So uh yeah, it was. So

1188
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: I was shooting six five four, I was riding that

1189
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: five hundred yard mark, and I just I was dialed.

1190
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: I think I was just dial a click high and

1191
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: uh I he dumped right in his tracks and I

1192
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: looked for him for two days. Never found any blood,

1193
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 1: but I watched him dumping his tracks, and then he

1194
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 1: kind of rolled out of a little opening, and I

1195
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: was running around the hillside trying to get another opening

1196
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 1: where I could see him. And then by the time

1197
01:08:57,560 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 1: I got over there, he was he was gone and

1198
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:02,679
Speaker 1: I couldn't I could and find him. And then another

1199
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: one that was with h It wasn't it wasn't the

1200
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:10,639
Speaker 1: match King, but it was a Sierra bullet and we

1201
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 1: shot at Leah shot deer last year about three hundred

1202
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 1: yards with the thirty out six, and the weirdest thing happened. Man,

1203
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 1: She hit him perfect, like behind the shoulder, midway up,

1204
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 1: like you were saying right where you want to be.

1205
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 4: That bullet went.

1206
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: In, hit one one long, and then the only thing

1207
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 1: I could see, there's a bullet going straight up through

1208
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 1: his spine, Like the bullet hit something and deflected straight up,

1209
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 1: and so we got one lung and a spine and

1210
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 1: it dropped him and he rolled down the hill out

1211
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: of sight. Well we go over to him. I mean,

1212
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 1: I thought the deer was dead on the spot, and

1213
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 1: he wasn't, and we just had to put another one

1214
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 1: in him.

1215
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 4: But that was a weird thing.

1216
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: That I saw that I can't really explain other than

1217
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: just things happen sometimes too that you can't explain.

1218
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 3: You know, another thing too, We'll have to test, because

1219
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 3: it definitely brings it up when you have this conversation

1220
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,520
Speaker 3: because so many of us like to shoot these lighter calibers.

1221
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 3: They're more pleasurable to shoot. We think they get the

1222
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 3: job done. But you gotta wonder, hey, if I had

1223
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:26,919
Speaker 3: a three thirty caliber magnum, would all of these animals

1224
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 3: that Garrett saw, you know, run off fifty yards and

1225
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 3: still die? Would those have just dirt n apped with

1226
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:36,639
Speaker 3: that same shot placement If it was the same bullet

1227
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 3: but in a thirty caliber magnum, and it would have

1228
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 3: been they would have been moving whatever, two three, one

1229
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 3: hundred feet faster a second.

1230
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, I think that's man that I thought about

1231
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 2: that a lot this year, especially since one of my

1232
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: hunting buddies the whole time was ragging on me for

1233
01:10:54,760 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 2: shooting a six or five anything. But what I fall

1234
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: back to, Yanni, was the year before that, I used

1235
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 2: my little sick Cross because it was my competition rifle, right,

1236
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 2: and I was so comfortable with it. I used it

1237
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,600
Speaker 2: for everything. It killed everything except for my moose slash

1238
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,719
Speaker 2: two years ago. So mountain go, multiple elk, multiple deer,

1239
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 2: multiple antelope, right, all of them did what I would

1240
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 2: hope would happen when a bullet hits them, right, Like,

1241
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:31,679
Speaker 2: they pretty much didn't take another step. Maybe they took

1242
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 2: a couple of steps, but like very labored. And so

1243
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 2: when I went to a six or five PRC, same diameter.

1244
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 2: But you know, we all know that the velocity and

1245
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 2: energy difference is in a PRC versus a creepy I was, okay,

1246
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,599
Speaker 2: a PRC is just is a faster right, Like when

1247
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 2: you break it down, it's a faster six or five

1248
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 2: bullet coming out of the tube right, so we know

1249
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 2: we can create more energy more rapid. I think it would.

1250
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 2: You can go onto any forum if you want a

1251
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 2: good afternoon, type in elk hunting with a six to

1252
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 2: five creed more and watch folks yell at each other

1253
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 2: for a long time. Six five PRC is considered a

1254
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 2: little bit more of your like big game hunting cartridge,

1255
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 2: or people are more comfortable with it. I was expecting

1256
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,759
Speaker 2: to see more drastic results in the creed more because

1257
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:28,639
Speaker 2: of that, But by changing the bullets that I was shooting,

1258
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 2: I saw less drastic kills than I saw my creed more.

1259
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 2: So that begs the question, Yanni, I mean, what are

1260
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 2: you shooting this fall?

1261
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 3: This year, I'm gonna shoot the seven Mickey mouse for

1262
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 3: the first time ever. The reason that I called the

1263
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 3: seven seven Mickey mouse, it's the seven millimeter Remington Magnum

1264
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 3: is the actual name of the cartridge, but it was

1265
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 3: said to be so in our elk camp when I

1266
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 3: was coming up in I think I started guiding in

1267
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 3: two thousand ninety nine or two thousand and it was

1268
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 3: just known like if a guy showed up with a

1269
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 3: seven milimeter rembag, everybody was like I don't want to

1270
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 3: got him that Elk's gonna get away, That Elk's gonna

1271
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 3: get away. I mean, it was just known, and it

1272
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 3: was pure coincidence that there had been, you know, more

1273
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 3: failures with that gun than others, and the guides there

1274
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 3: were just anti the seven millimeters, so they called it

1275
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 3: the seven mickey mouse because it just wasn't enough gun, right,

1276
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 3: everybody wanted to be if in that camp at that time,

1277
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 3: if if the client said, hey, I'm gonna buy any rifle,

1278
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 3: all the guides would have said, well, come with a

1279
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 3: three hundred weather be with one hundred and eighty grainers

1280
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 3: or two hundred grainers loaded for it.

1281
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 5: That was like the preferred Elk rifle. And you can't

1282
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 5: argue with it.

1283
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 3: It's it's great, but I feel like these days so

1284
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 3: I had never ever messed with a seven millimeter and

1285
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 3: this year got a couple of new rifles and decided

1286
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 3: to get them both in that cartridge and just really

1287
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 3: get some personal experience with that cartridge. And I think

1288
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 3: that with today's you know, that was twenty years ago,

1289
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 3: so the bullets were getting better, you know.

1290
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 5: I think that.

1291
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 3: Noazaor's partition was around the Acubon was just showing up

1292
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 3: around then. But there's still plenty of core locks coming

1293
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 3: through the camp. So now you know I can I'm

1294
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,600
Speaker 3: sure I can shoot a bunch of quality bullets with

1295
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,520
Speaker 3: that set of meal meter and I'll have great success.

1296
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 3: The nice thing now that I think a big change

1297
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 3: in what we're doing and how we're shooting these guns

1298
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 3: and what's going to come a factor that's going to

1299
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 3: come into play more and more. Is that a reason

1300
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:52,679
Speaker 3: that nobody wanted to shoot with the three hundred weather

1301
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,120
Speaker 3: be back in the day, or a three hundred win

1302
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:59,600
Speaker 3: mag whatever pick your poison was because it was punishing.

1303
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 3: Nobody wanted to sit at the bench and dial it in.

1304
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 3: And then you know, half the people wound up with

1305
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,320
Speaker 3: scope marks between their eyes when they did shoot an

1306
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 3: elk with it. But now with suppressors becoming more and

1307
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 3: more available or people at least getting them, they still

1308
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 3: seem like it's a pain in the butt to get one.

1309
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 3: It's taken eight or nine months, maybe more, but that's

1310
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 3: a it's a completely different experience now to shoot a

1311
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 3: magnum rifle when you can suppress it and it's not

1312
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 3: you know, it just doesn't beat you up anymore, So

1313
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,959
Speaker 3: why not pound them if you're not pounding yourself.

1314
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 5: That's what I say.

1315
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like your listener question at the beginning

1316
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 2: of this of like the perfect caliber or what speed

1317
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,799
Speaker 2: do I need to shoot? I would say, like, start

1318
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 2: with the gun that you can shoot right, Like you

1319
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 2: put somebody behind a suppressed or muzzle break six or

1320
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 2: five creed more and they're gonna end up being a

1321
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 2: good shot. They're not afraid of it. They can watch

1322
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 2: first round, which is a big deal in the field.

1323
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 2: Like we've learned, we've translated the comp world to hunting.

1324
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 2: Calling your own impact is a big thing. And then

1325
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 2: work your way to that happy medium of something that

1326
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 2: has the knockdown right, but you're not afraid to shoot it.

1327
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 2: And I think like that's where some of these prcs

1328
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 2: are taking off or seven people are coming back to

1329
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 2: a seven RAM or to eighty aclee right where they

1330
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:29,800
Speaker 2: have that knockdown. But because of modern tech and the

1331
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 2: fact that we're not trying to build six pound guns

1332
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 2: all the time, like you're you're fine sitting behind it

1333
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 2: and taking to the range and dumping a bunch of ammo.

1334
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:41,679
Speaker 5: Yep.

1335
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 2: So knowing Yan knowing that. Uh, we're like, you know,

1336
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 2: we're gonna be working with SICK this year as far

1337
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 2: as bullet tight because we don't know the names of

1338
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:57,479
Speaker 2: all the bullets yet, but as far as bullet type,

1339
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 2: what are you going to be shooting?

1340
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 5: Uh?

1341
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 3: Well, we did hear through the grapevine that there's a

1342
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 3: strong possibility that they're going to be loading up some

1343
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 3: barns under the SIG brand, So I will probably shoot

1344
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 3: that as well as whatever their bonded bullet is. Yeah, well,

1345
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 3: I gotta go with I don't know, maybe maybe I'll

1346
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 3: have all three. Maybe I should just say I'll do

1347
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 3: I'll try all three and and uh yeah, because I

1348
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 3: have a pretty good mule deer tag that that's probably

1349
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 3: the most high pressure uh you know hunt of the

1350
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 3: year with a rifle at least, and uh, I probably

1351
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 3: go go bond it there. I don't know, but I like, again,

1352
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 3: for me, in my personal experience, I've had uh, great

1353
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 3: luck with copper barnes, usually some of the trophy copper

1354
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:08,799
Speaker 3: from Federal, but great luck with those bullets. Over the years,

1355
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 3: I have noticed that at distance, does the animal flip

1356
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 3: right over at three point fifty?

1357
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 5: Nope?

1358
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 3: You know, even I think I shot a bull out

1359
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 3: quartering away with the probably a three hundred short MAGS,

1360
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 3: but I was shooting at that time. I was probably

1361
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 3: gone down to a one to sixty five copper and

1362
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 3: it slowed him down to where I pretty much could

1363
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 3: walk up to within fifty yards of him and then

1364
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 3: shoot him again. But he was certainly not dead at

1365
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 3: that first shot three and fifty yards with that copper bullet.

1366
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 3: So yes, just got to keep that kind of stuff

1367
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 3: in mind. But yeah, I've got confidence in all those bullets.

1368
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 3: I've actually trying to think I've ever had a full

1369
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 3: on failure with a bullet, any kind of bullet, and

1370
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:04,040
Speaker 3: like not recovered the animal one doesn't come to mind.

1371
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 3: I feel like they missed.

1372
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 2: It's rare. Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's rare. Man,

1373
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,799
Speaker 2: Like they stick out in our minds because they're always

1374
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,719
Speaker 2: like the biggest elkor gear you've ever seen in your life.

1375
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 2: But I think it's especially today, like it's pretty rare.

1376
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 2: And I think that you're like I saw your post

1377
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 2: the other day. I think you're doing it right on

1378
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 2: testing accuracy out of your gun too, because I think

1379
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,360
Speaker 2: like that should maybe be one of the first steps

1380
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 2: in choosing your bullet is what does your gun like?

1381
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 2: You know, like there's realities on when you get into

1382
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:41,559
Speaker 2: tangent its can't like bullet shapes right, and like what

1383
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 2: does your gun want to shoot? We all know, like

1384
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 2: the burger match stuff that like the classic. I think

1385
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 2: it's the secant like the burger shape bullet is more

1386
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 2: susceptible to seating depth issues and accuracy issues. However, it's

1387
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 2: usually higher BC's and if you're loading you can get

1388
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 2: a lot of accuracy out of them. But if you're

1389
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:12,520
Speaker 2: buying amo off the shelf, that like tangent style bullet

1390
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 2: like out of the box is usually going to do

1391
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 2: pretty dang good. But like starting with the accuracy and

1392
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 2: what your gun likes, and then if it's all things

1393
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:23,880
Speaker 2: the same, then start playing around with the type of

1394
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 2: bullet you're gonna shoot.

1395
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, because yeah, as you've discussed, we're kind of

1396
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 3: beating a dead horse at this point. But I would

1397
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:38,879
Speaker 3: if I even if I just had three different types,

1398
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 3: and but one is shooting an inch and the other

1399
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 3: ones are shooting two inch, I'm probably gonna go with

1400
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 3: the one that's shooting the inch, because I just I'm

1401
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 3: just gonna be confident with that when I pull the trigger,

1402
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 3: the bullet's going right where I'm aiming. And you said

1403
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:54,800
Speaker 3: earlier shot placement is king.

1404
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they're all gonna kill it if you double

1405
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:03,000
Speaker 2: lung an elk right, Yeah, gonna die.

1406
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1407
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 3: And I'm you know, just speaking a shot placement. I

1408
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 3: am definitely not. The more and more I you know,

1409
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 3: I did those videos with the ranch Ferry where we

1410
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:16,680
Speaker 3: dissected the nil guy and the hogs, and man, the

1411
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 3: more you do that kind of stuff, you realize how

1412
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:23,240
Speaker 3: far forward those vitals are. And when you actually go

1413
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 3: say you look at that crease to the shoulder and

1414
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,600
Speaker 3: then say, oh, I'm gonna shoot two ribs back or

1415
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,600
Speaker 3: three ribs back. Man, on a lot of animals, you

1416
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:33,759
Speaker 3: are clipping the back of the lungs on that shot.

1417
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 3: You are not center punching the lungs if you're two

1418
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:37,200
Speaker 3: or three ribs back.

1419
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 5: I don't think so.

1420
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 3: And so when I'm teaching, now mine oldest is going

1421
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 3: to try to kill her first year. This year, it's

1422
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 3: gonna be straight up the leg. Obviously, this is perfectly broadside.

1423
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:53,599
Speaker 3: You know, it changes if it's quartering away or two.

1424
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 3: But if it's perfectly broadside. It's gonna be straight up

1425
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 3: the leg. I'm gonna literally have her use you know,

1426
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 3: line up your your vertical cross hair with that front

1427
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 3: leg and and then go center mask with the horizontal

1428
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:11,320
Speaker 3: cross hair. But I'd rather punch that shoulder and I

1429
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 3: have a confidence again and if I'm shooting, you know,

1430
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,760
Speaker 3: the two bullets, two types of bullets, I like to

1431
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 3: shoot that that's going to go right through there and

1432
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 3: uh and get the job done. Yeah, I just feel

1433
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 3: like creeping back there. You're I don't know, kind of

1434
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 3: kind of asking for it.

1435
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're on the spectrum for sure. I think for

1436
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 2: that bullet placement, I only get to come on your podcast.

1437
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 2: Well was the first time, so I have a lot

1438
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 2: of a gender items please, But I would say I

1439
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 2: would say like as far as that bullet placement goes, like,

1440
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:48,800
Speaker 2: there's a couple of things I would stress you hit

1441
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,839
Speaker 2: it and I'm just gonna say it again, like finding

1442
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 2: a bullet that your gun likes. But when you're testing AMMO,

1443
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:59,000
Speaker 2: A couple of things that that people should really consider

1444
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:03,720
Speaker 2: is standard deviation in that AMMO in terms of velocity. Right,

1445
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 2: So if you have access to a chronograph of some kind,

1446
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: whether it's a lab radar or what's the one that

1447
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 2: hooks on the end of your barrel, is a meg

1448
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 2: speed or something like that?

1449
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 3: Did you better explain you better explain that the standard

1450
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 3: deviation thing?

1451
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So basically what standard deviation is is like looking

1452
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:31,640
Speaker 2: at how much variation there is in your speed from

1453
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 2: bullet or from cartridge to cartridge. Right, so if I

1454
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 2: grab a box of AMMO, what's that that range and

1455
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:43,520
Speaker 2: you're going to hear people tell you like different tolerances

1456
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:46,759
Speaker 2: or the other way to look at is extreme spread.

1457
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,719
Speaker 2: But what they think is good or not I would say,

1458
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 2: like a standard deviation sub Some people will say sub twenty.

1459
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:00,560
Speaker 2: I'd say, like sub fifteen is okay. I feel like

1460
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 2: in match stuff, we're looking for sub ten a big

1461
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,799
Speaker 2: shot out I mean the out of the box SIGs

1462
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 2: match AMMO is like running like I'm getting an average

1463
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 2: of seven and eight feet per second standard deviation, which

1464
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 2: is insane. So test that if you don't have access

1465
01:24:20,040 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 2: to a chronograph. The best way to do it, like,

1466
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 2: because I know that when people think accuracy, they shoot

1467
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 2: one hundred yard groups like you did the other day, Yannie,

1468
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 2: and then they're like, oh, that's my bullet. Push it

1469
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 2: out a little further, put paper out further at a

1470
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:40,080
Speaker 2: range where you're comfortable and you're competent in I'm not

1471
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 2: saying like eight hundred yards, but something where you feel

1472
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:45,639
Speaker 2: like as a shooter, you can give it a good test,

1473
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,840
Speaker 2: say three hundred yards and test those groups, because if

1474
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:53,560
Speaker 2: you don't have access to a chronograph, that's going to

1475
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,840
Speaker 2: tell you a lot more than what one hundred yards is, right, Like,

1476
01:24:56,840 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 2: you're going to see that string start changing when you

1477
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 2: test those bullets. Go buy as many as you can

1478
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,639
Speaker 2: afford with the same lot number stamped on the back

1479
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:10,800
Speaker 2: of it. So if you went to Sportsman's Warehouse and

1480
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 2: bought some bullets, like, go back there that day and

1481
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 2: buy as many as you can afford that have that

1482
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 2: same lot stamp on there. So you're getting the same

1483
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 2: consistent well everything in terms of like neck tension, feet

1484
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 2: per second. They're using the same brass, Like not all

1485
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:33,120
Speaker 2: brass is created equal, but then you're just getting going

1486
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 2: to have a more consistent load when you go out

1487
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 2: into the field year over year.

1488
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 3: Do you feel like there's a minimum a distance where

1489
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,799
Speaker 3: kind of all this stuff that you just said starting

1490
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 3: with you know, anything beyond just shooting a nice three

1491
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 3: shot group at one hundred yards. Well, like if I'm like, well,

1492
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 3: you know what, Garrett, I only shoot three hundred yards

1493
01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:01,400
Speaker 3: completely max, because just that's where I just don't shoot.

1494
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:03,719
Speaker 3: Or the gun that I'm using, you know it won't

1495
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 3: perform past that because it would you say, you know what,

1496
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 3: then don't worry about that if that's it? Or is

1497
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,200
Speaker 3: there like a minimum distance where you'd say, hey, if

1498
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 3: you're gonna shoot this far or farther, then you should

1499
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 3: start worrying about this stuff.

1500
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 2: I think you should worry about it regardless. Man. But Adam,

1501
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,759
Speaker 2: whatever you like, we've done this drill before, Yanni, whatever,

1502
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 2: you think your max range is right, start testing those

1503
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 2: group size Like you're not going to see a huge

1504
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 2: change in placement with standard deviations inside three hundred yards, right,

1505
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 2: like you're gonna hit a pie plate size thing or

1506
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:56,880
Speaker 2: you know, the vitals inside three hundred yards. But it's

1507
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 2: still like we've harped on shot placements so much like

1508
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 2: let's take okay, let's let's say that you, because of

1509
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 2: AMMO choice, you've got a gun that is shooting a

1510
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 2: two minute group at range right, like at three hundred yards,

1511
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 2: so that's a six inch group in which most people

1512
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 2: would be like, oh, that's the lungs of a deer,

1513
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:24,320
Speaker 2: all right, But now you have a little bit of wind,

1514
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 2: or you misranged it a little bit right, or the

1515
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,680
Speaker 2: environmentals are a little different, like and all of a

1516
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:32,679
Speaker 2: sudden that starts to expand outside of a perfect medium

1517
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 2: you're hunting. Your heart rate is up, Like I think,

1518
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 2: even if you're shooting inside three hundred yards, you should

1519
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 2: pay attention to be like the most lethal you can

1520
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 2: on shot placement because there's so many external factors.

1521
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good that's a very very good point.

1522
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 3: I'd add to that that it's it's not gonna hurt

1523
01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 3: you to go shoot some more. That's one benefit of

1524
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,680
Speaker 3: messing around with all this stuff. Even if you end

1525
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 3: up in the exact same place you're at right now,

1526
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 3: the same load, same bullet, same whatever. If you go

1527
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,679
Speaker 3: on this journey and shoot a couple hundred rounds between

1528
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 3: now and hunting season and mess around different stuff, try

1529
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 3: it that time on your rifle, on your trigger, it's

1530
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 3: gonna be nothing but beneficial. And too many of us

1531
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 3: take you know, we sput so much time into shooting

1532
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 3: their bows all the time, and then we're like, I'll

1533
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 3: just pick up the rifle and go crack something. Well,

1534
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:34,439
Speaker 3: it's that's a stupid way to look at it. Man.

1535
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 5: A lot of.

1536
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:40,799
Speaker 3: Opportunities are missed because people don't put enough effort into

1537
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:42,679
Speaker 3: practicing with their rifles.

1538
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and man, I'd say, like a gamer thing to

1539
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 2: do for folks that are buying AMMO off the shelf.

1540
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 2: This like shout out to my buddy Benny Cooley who

1541
01:28:56,400 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 2: gave me insight into this. I can't do it on

1542
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 2: the match side of things, as I you say that

1543
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 2: I'm shooting factory Ammo. But if you're a hunter, buy

1544
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:09,320
Speaker 2: that Ammo. If you have access to a reloading press,

1545
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 2: bump it by a thousandth throw all your AMMO through

1546
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 2: early reloading press and bump it by a thousandth and

1547
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 2: what you're going to avoid. And sometimes what is like

1548
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 2: the worst case for extreme spread in velocities is getting

1549
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 2: what's called a cold weld, right, And if so that

1550
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 2: AMMO is sat around for any period of time, there's

1551
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:37,559
Speaker 2: likelihood that a couple of those projectiles sitting in the

1552
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:41,040
Speaker 2: case for that long has created a cold weld, so

1553
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:43,000
Speaker 2: you're going to have a pressure spike, and that's where

1554
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:45,800
Speaker 2: you like sometimes in you're shooting factory AMMO, you'll have

1555
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 2: like one that hits eighty feet per second more than

1556
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 2: all the others and then it kind of settles back down.

1557
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:55,720
Speaker 2: That's usually a cold weld. So even if you have

1558
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:59,680
Speaker 2: a buddy that just likes to to reload, or you

1559
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 2: have a loading press yourself, find that lot that works

1560
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 2: well with your gun, bring it all in and bump

1561
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 2: it by a thousandth before going out into the field,

1562
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 2: and you're likely going to see a drastic improvement in

1563
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 2: accuracy and extreme spread and velocities.

1564
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, just talking about the standard deviation. Garret was talking

1565
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:24,480
Speaker 3: about a post that I made on the old Instagram

1566
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 3: that's Yiannis underscore pu tell us where we tested through

1567
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 3: that seven mickey mouse. We tested the barns. I think

1568
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 3: it wasn't a Barnes. I think it was wasn't it.

1569
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:38,640
Speaker 3: I think it was just a federal trophy copper, wasn't it?

1570
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:39,080
Speaker 5: Garrett?

1571
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, these are all federal loaded rounds. When was there

1572
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:48,719
Speaker 3: trophy bonded and one was the acubond loaded in there

1573
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 3: and the trophy bonded had the highest standard deviation of

1574
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:58,760
Speaker 3: twenty three feet. The accubonts were next at twenty one,

1575
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 3: and then the copper was the least at thirteen. So yeah,

1576
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 3: quite the difference. And you know, twenty three feet a

1577
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 3: second seems like a lot, yeah, man.

1578
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 2: And I think like neck tension is one of your

1579
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,599
Speaker 2: biggest things you're dealing with there, and it to your

1580
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 2: point earlier, inside three hundred yards, you're gonna notice it.

1581
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 2: Probably not, but you start reaching out and it shows itself,

1582
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,040
Speaker 2: and we don't want it to show itself when we're

1583
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,760
Speaker 2: out trying to kill critters. And then the other thing

1584
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:40,519
Speaker 2: i'd say is when you find that round, oh man, Yanni.

1585
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:42,720
Speaker 2: We do this a lot when we go to the range, Like,

1586
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:49,200
Speaker 2: don't make your max range theoretical at that point because

1587
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 2: if you're if you're shooting a copper bullet or a

1588
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 2: bonded bullet, well all of them where you're like, you're

1589
01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:01,519
Speaker 2: relying on hitting that spot based off the bullets design

1590
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 2: and how it's going to react. Go to the range

1591
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 2: and cold shoot like the longest distance you would well,

1592
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 2: you'd ever shoot and lay down and do it like

1593
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:12,759
Speaker 2: first round. If you don't hit a first round impact.

1594
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:17,960
Speaker 2: You need to like drastically reassess what that max range

1595
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:19,760
Speaker 2: is regardless of what your ballistic.

1596
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:22,800
Speaker 3: She says, Yep, yeah, you're yeah if you if you can't,

1597
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:25,760
Speaker 3: you can't. Yeah, not enough of us do that for sure.

1598
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:27,720
Speaker 3: I mean, because you only get one chance that well,

1599
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:29,639
Speaker 3: that's not true. I mean, I guess you could sit

1600
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:32,160
Speaker 3: around for twenty minutes and let those let those barrels

1601
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 3: cool cool down. But it's hard to replicate it, right

1602
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:39,679
Speaker 3: because because even if you wait twenty minutes and shoot again,

1603
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 3: then you've sort of gotten comfortable, right, you're more in

1604
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:48,520
Speaker 3: the in the shooting mindset. But that you know, practicing

1605
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:51,639
Speaker 3: those cold board first shots and seeing what you can

1606
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 3: do with that, that should definitely be your your lit

1607
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 3: miss as to how far you can shoot.

1608
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:01,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's like wind calls, right, your second

1609
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,439
Speaker 2: shot at that target, you've likely gained the wind a

1610
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 2: little bit or you understand this last match we went through,

1611
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:13,400
Speaker 2: there was a stage I was happy to see. We

1612
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:16,280
Speaker 2: got to lay down and shoot targets because they usually

1613
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:18,840
Speaker 2: through NRL Hunter like you're doing a lot of tripod

1614
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,639
Speaker 2: off rocks and stuff, and came around the corner running

1615
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 2: up the hill for this stage and got to lay

1616
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 2: down these There was four targets out there between i'd

1617
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:35,360
Speaker 2: say like five fifty and four hundred yards. I missed

1618
01:33:35,479 --> 01:33:38,519
Speaker 2: all of them but one, and I thought that I

1619
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:40,720
Speaker 2: would at that point become the world's worst shooter. I

1620
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:44,080
Speaker 2: watched my friend Benny Cooley shoot after that, who is

1621
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:47,880
Speaker 2: a great shooter. He did the exact same thing. And

1622
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:52,439
Speaker 2: it's a reset for you, right, because we had very

1623
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,559
Speaker 2: variable winds going through there. The heat was picking up,

1624
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:58,680
Speaker 2: it was pushing up the hillside, and you had a

1625
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 2: series I got to walk a series of you know,

1626
01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:03,760
Speaker 2: half a dozen really good shooters come in there and

1627
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:07,559
Speaker 2: miss a four hundred yard target repeatedly because we couldn't

1628
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:12,679
Speaker 2: get the environmentals dialed in even after missing shots next

1629
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 2: to that steal. So I think it's a reset on

1630
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:19,679
Speaker 2: you're shooting across three canyons or a couple of koolies,

1631
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:21,880
Speaker 2: and you're in the field and you have a ten

1632
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 2: mile an hour, you know, ten o'clock wind. That changes

1633
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 2: the game a lot.

1634
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, a whole bunch, all right.

1635
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:33,639
Speaker 3: Anything we didn't cover off on that you still want

1636
01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:35,759
Speaker 3: to plug in that you have on your little agenda

1637
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:36,960
Speaker 3: sheet Garrett.

1638
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 2: No, man, that was that was about? You know, I

1639
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 2: was going to talk a little bit about like bullet

1640
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:47,000
Speaker 2: selection in terms of the different types of ojives, But

1641
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:48,760
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like that could be like a

1642
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:49,679
Speaker 2: totally different podcast.

1643
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:56,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, we can save ojives and cats for for another episode. Yeah,

1644
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,320
Speaker 3: all right, Well, thanks for listening to everybody. I hope

1645
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 3: it was educational to you and entertaining as well. Don't

1646
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:07,599
Speaker 3: forget sign up for a chance to win three thousand

1647
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:10,960
Speaker 3: bucks an awesome hunting gear, and I'll help you pick

1648
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:14,400
Speaker 3: it out if you're the winner. Ends May twenty first.

1649
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:16,719
Speaker 3: If you're the winner, you'll find out May twenty second.

1650
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:20,439
Speaker 3: Send your questions to gear talk at themedia dot com.

1651
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:25,040
Speaker 3: You can always DM Jordan and I on our respective

1652
01:35:25,080 --> 01:35:27,719
Speaker 3: Instagram handles, although I tell you it's a lot harder

1653
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:29,400
Speaker 3: for me. I only get in there once a week,

1654
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:34,519
Speaker 3: so don't expect a quick reply there. I prefer gear

1655
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 3: talk at the medeater dot com. Join anything else you

1656
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:38,639
Speaker 3: want to add.

1657
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 1: No, man, this one this was great. I really enjoyed it.

1658
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for hopping on, Garrett.

1659
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:44,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.

1660
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 3: Well, check in after the fall and see see how

1661
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:50,880
Speaker 3: everybody's performance.

1662
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 5: How are their Bullets performed This Fall again. Sound good, yeah,

1663
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:55,880
Speaker 5: I love it.