1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: The volume. The Colin Coward Podcast presented by FanDuel Sports Book. 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: No better place to make every moment more than with 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Fan Duel Basketball Football. They have awesome new and existing 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: user promotions. It's easy to use, it's safe and secure. 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: You can get your winnings back in two hours. My 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: favorite the same game parlays. You can bet five or 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: ten bucks in one, one hundred and fifty bucks or more. 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: If you are new, just download the FanDuel Sportsbook app. 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: Get started now, sign up promo code Colin so they 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: know we and I sent you. The Colin Coward Podcast 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: presented by The Fan Duel Sports Book. Hi everybody, and 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: welcome to the Monday Morning Podcast. My buddy Ian O'Connor, 13 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: who has written a masterpiece Coach k The Rising Rate 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: of Mike Shashevski, also wrote a book on Bill Belichick. 15 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: He's a columnist for The New York's Post. He's just 16 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: fantastic and he's been following Mike Shachevski around the entire year. 17 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: So it was sort of a sad ending to the career, 18 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: writing off into the sunset on a golf cart with 19 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: a loss at the hands of the bitter rival North Carolina. 20 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: So we'll get into that with Ian O'Connor, plus the 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: Tiger Woods buzz for the Masters coming up. A couple 22 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: of thoughts from Sunday. Lebron did not play and the 23 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: Lakers lost again and they're all but out of the playoffs. 24 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: One of the things that's sort of mystifying to me 25 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: about the NBA, and this is why strong parenting matters, 26 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: and strong bosses matter, and strong commissioners. Since Adam Silver 27 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: took over as commissioner of the NBA, I cannot be 28 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: the only person that's noticed this. He's normalized stars, multiple 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: stars resting regularly big television games as the league is 30 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: increasingly on TV, at least on a regional level. I 31 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: find it discouraging. And maybe it's the small town kid 32 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: in me. I grew up two hours from Seattle. We 33 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: didn't have a ton of money, so we'd go to 34 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: maybe one Sonic game every three years. The idea of 35 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: going to a Sonics game as a kid in downtown 36 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Freddie Brown or Jack Sigma or Gus Williams, two of 37 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 1: those three were not playing, not because of some really 38 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: ugly injury, they just wanted rest. I think is really 39 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: bad form. I know the Lakers are a glamor franchise, 40 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: but I see this every night throughout the league. What 41 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: makes college basketball so watchable? Did you see the Duke 42 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: Carolina game? Not sure if you did, had like the 43 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: highest rating, second highest college basketball rating in over a decade. 44 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: It's not because the officiating is great or the skill 45 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: level is remarkable. It's because of how deeply they care 46 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: about each possession. Now, when the NBA gets to the postseason, 47 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: especially the conference finals and finals, nobody disputes. The urgency 48 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: ratchets up and the great players put on a master's class. 49 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: But if you don't want to plan these regular season games, 50 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: and increasingly it looks like star players don't want to 51 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: cut the season to fifty eight sixty games, get to 52 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: the playoffs and extend those. You know, I've been arguing 53 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: for years that we're just simply a more distracted society, 54 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: a more frenetic society. We're on the go. We really 55 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: don't have time for regular season games. And what's happening 56 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: is the NFL is pulling away from other leagues because 57 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: it's once a week. You can be a busy dad, 58 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: a successful parent, multiple kids. You can still give your 59 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: local team three hours on Sunday if you're in Cleveland 60 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: or in Tampa. But society has changed, cultures have changed. 61 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm to the point now with regular seasons NHL, NBA, 62 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: and Major League Baseball lop a third of the regular 63 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: seasons off create multiple new layers of playoff basketball because 64 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: the stars don't look like they care. And basketball is 65 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: a beautiful sport even when the skill level is lower, 66 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: like college basketball, the best players are mostly one and 67 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: done or two and done. It's a beautiful sport. And 68 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: you can see with college basketball, we're not watching March 69 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: Madness because Saint Peter's has NBA level players. We're watching 70 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: it because they care, and they're passionate, and they're all 71 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: in and there's urgency. As far as the Lakers go, 72 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: they're not officially out of the playoffs, but they were 73 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: officially out of the playoffs by about week three. It's 74 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: an old roster. The downside to an old roster is, 75 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: as chronicled often on this podcast and on my radio 76 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: and TV shows. The older a roster, the more often 77 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: it gets hurt, and the longer those injured players are out. 78 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: And I don't know why any Laker fan would want 79 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: to run back Lebron and Dad for the third year 80 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: after that Bubble championship. We all understand now Lebron's going 81 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: to give you about fifty five sixty games. He's going 82 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: to take a lot of back to backs or close 83 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: to back to backs. Off. He's old, he'll be in 84 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: his twentieth year a d because of his style and 85 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: his body is brittle, and it's going to give you 86 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 1: about fifty five sixty games as well. Look at the numbers. 87 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: So to me, you've got to take a big, big 88 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: swing in the off season. I've said it before. I 89 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: would move everybody except Lebron James, and if he wouldn't 90 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: embrace for the first time in his career playing with 91 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: young players, I'd move off in trade Lebron James as well. 92 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: I also have to comment on this. I try to 93 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: be fair with Lebron James. Kareem Abdul Jabbar the stoic 94 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: and legendary figure for the Lakers for years and years 95 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: and years. He's probably the only comparable player to Lebron 96 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,239 Speaker 1: in terms of longevity, duration of quality. So he said 97 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: over the weekend that Lebron should be embarrassed by some 98 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: of his actions outside of basketball. Can I throw up 99 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: a big stop sign on that? Listen. Kareem was a 100 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: difficult teammate. Kareem's never been able to land either the 101 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: broadcasting or coaching job he so desires. He's prickly and difficult, 102 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: and if you watch the HBO special Winning Time on 103 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: the Lakers, he is portrayed, I think very accurately as 104 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: perennially difficult. You don't have to agree with everything Lebron 105 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: James does, but intent matters and effort matters. Okay, Lebron's 106 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: not Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was about basketball and business. 107 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: He didn't have much interest in anybody outside of his sphere. 108 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: Like Michael Jordan was fine doing it the way he 109 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: did it. But today mj seems and feels a little 110 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: outdated for a star athlete his empire and about enabling 111 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: that or getting trampled that's how he rolled. I'm okay 112 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,559 Speaker 1: with it. But Lebron James from the school he built 113 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: an acron to his sort of commitment to younger people, 114 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: to his flourishing businesses and his ability to care about 115 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: people above and beyond himself. Listen, go back watch HBO's 116 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: Winning Time. Players were selfish about sex, about themselves, about 117 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: the money. I'm not saying Lebron is perfect, but you 118 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: start naming athletes that have built stuff beyond themselves, and 119 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: I love Brady and I love MJ, but it's mostly 120 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: about their brand and adding to their stockpile of riches. 121 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: Lebron has done a lot for other people. He's tried 122 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: to elevate others often for most of his what nineteen 123 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: twenty year career. So nothing against Kareem Abdul Jabbar, but 124 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: he was legendarily prickly difficult, didn't get along with many, 125 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: and it's easy now to go to substack, write a 126 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: call and point out everybody else's imperfections. It's like, dude, 127 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: there is a reason Kareem, one of the most intelligent 128 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: athletes of my sportscasting career, never landed the many opportunities 129 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: he thought he deserved. So one of the last free 130 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: agent moves of note, talented wide receiver Davanta Parker from 131 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: Miami was traded to the New England Patriots. The Patriots 132 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: receiving corps gets a little bit of a jolt, but 133 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: it's still Jacoby Myers, Nelson Aguilar, Davante Parker you know, 134 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: it's not exactly the Chiefs. What I find fascinating about 135 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: New England is, for years and years we thought Bill 136 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: was sort of ahead of the curve on virtually everything. 137 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: Now we know now post Brady divorce, even he can't 138 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: win at the highest levels without a great quarterback. But 139 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: I swear to God, if I didn't know better, I'd 140 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: think he was tanking it and giving Robert Craft his 141 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: franchise back with no coordinators, no skilled people, and no 142 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: elite edge rushers. Look at their roster. They can't stop 143 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills with J. C. Jackson he's gone. They 144 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: can't score and keep up with teams like the Chiefs 145 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: or the Bills. And they didn't resign Shack Mason. I 146 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 1: don't know what they're doing reports now that Belichick will 147 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: call plays. Doesn't it feel like he's still pissed about 148 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: that Jimmy Garoppolo trade and he's just going to hand 149 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: craft a franchise retire. It's going to have no coordinators, 150 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: they'll need a new head coach and no playmakers. Now 151 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: I know that's not true, but on all the Belichick books, 152 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: of which Ian O'Connor wrote a great one, Jeff Benedict 153 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: wrote a great one. They really fell in love with 154 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: their system, and what you're watching now is a team 155 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: that simply doesn't match up. If you go look at 156 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: the last two to three Super Bowls, quarterback, pass rush weapons, 157 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: They're not elite in any of those groups. I don't 158 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: understand their offseason now. I know they spent a ton 159 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: last year in free agency. I get it, and maybe 160 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: they believe with their complex system. A second year in 161 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: their system, some of those guys that didn't pop will, 162 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: like Nelson Aguilar. But if somebody can explain where their 163 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: money's going. They're not paying mac Jones, They're not paying 164 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: big money to any of the receivers. They're not paying 165 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: big money now to any of their offensive linemen. They're 166 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: not paying big money to a corner or a safety 167 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: or an edge rusher. Where's it going? Let's bring on 168 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: a regular contributor to the volume. Sports, Ian O'Connor, columnist 169 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: New York Post, has been tagging along, following, and reporting 170 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: on Mike Shashevski for the better part of eighteen months. 171 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: The book is called Coach K The Rise and Reign 172 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: of Mike Shashevski. Let's bring in in. I thought you've 173 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: been following Mike now for some time. The timing of 174 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: this obviously when you planned to write this book, you 175 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: looked off in the horizon a couple of years ago 176 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: and said, Okay, I'm gonna deep dive on this stuff. 177 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: I thought it was so sad on a golf cart 178 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: with his longtime wife Mickey having lost a North Carolina 179 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: for the second time in a month, Godi, and it 180 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: was so anticlimactic. It was just such a thud. So 181 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: I'll I'll start with that he could not figure out 182 00:12:52,480 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: North Carolina's riddle. How disappointed was he immediately after the game? Oh, 183 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, he was as disappointed as you could be. 184 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: And it was interesting. He said, I don't think I've 185 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: ever heard a coach say this. In his locker room 186 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: after the game. The devastation was so profound that everyone 187 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: was crying, and he said, that was a beautiful sight. 188 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: And I never heard a coach described that scene that 189 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: way and after a devastating defeat. And I understood what 190 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: he meant, and he explained it that that was proof 191 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: that his kids cared so much about the effort and 192 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: the result and either they're going to be tears of 193 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: great joy or tears of great sadness, and unfortunately they 194 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: were on the wrong end of that, but at least 195 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: there were tears throughout the locker room, and that told 196 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: him that well. I think he already knew about this group, 197 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: because honestly, Colin five minutes left against Michigan State in 198 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: Round two, down five, we all thought they were losing. 199 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: Just watching that team this year thirty five times and 200 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: even talking to some of the Duke Beat writers, everyone 201 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: thought they were losing because they had not shown that 202 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: toughness in endgame tense situations. And they grew up in 203 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: real time for him, and I think they gave him 204 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: a gift that game, the Texas Tech game, the Arkansas 205 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: game that as much as last night really hurt, and 206 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: it really hurt, he understood that they did give him 207 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: a gift, and they got him to the Final Four 208 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: for thirteenth time, passing John Wooden. He was never obviously 209 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: going to catch Wooden with ten national titles, but that 210 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: this group got him past John Wooden for Final Four appearances, 211 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: and I think he can't really fully repay them for that, 212 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: and he understood that as well. 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Well, 243 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: Carolina is playing better now, Kansas is probably better now, 244 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: and Villanova, if fully healthy, would give them the fight 245 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: of their lives. Can you explain Carolina? Because you've had 246 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: to cover Hubert Davis a couple of times during this 247 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: last the work for your book. He was a very 248 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: very gracious man as a player, was never a self promoter. 249 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if people thought he was a great choice. 250 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: Obviously as an eight seed it was a very turbulent season. 251 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: What have you What do you make of what he's 252 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: done with this program? Just in talking to Jeff Van Gundy, 253 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: who was an assistant on that nixt team in ninety war, 254 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: if we would call in the Eastern Conference Semis, the 255 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: Knicks beat the Bulls in seven. That was the year 256 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan was playing baseball, and Game five, Hugh Hollands 257 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: makes that call. Bulls are up one, about to take 258 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: a three two series lead and eliminate them, and Hubert 259 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: Davis gets the call top of the key jumper. It 260 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: was probably a bad call by Hugh Hollands. The official 261 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: Pippin grazed his arm after the release. That should not 262 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: have been called, but it was. But Davis didn't had 263 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: to go to the line and make those two free throws. 264 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: At the time, they were two of the biggest foul 265 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: shots in the history that Knicks franchise. And he had 266 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: only been on the floor for thirteen minutes. He had 267 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: not been to the line that night, and he sank 268 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: those two. And it's been largely forgotten because of the 269 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: Hugh Hollands call. And Jeff said that that's who he was. 270 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: He was so professional, never lost his poise just even 271 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: on the road. He did not want a room next 272 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: to Knicks who were loud and out all night, and 273 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: and he wanted professionalism at all times. So Van Gundhi 274 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: told me, I'm not prize that when it looked like 275 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: they wouldn't even make the NCAA tournament, he stayed with it. 276 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: He worked the problem, and he never lost his poise. 277 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: And I think that group fed off that. And I 278 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: felt going into that game last night, if Love had 279 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: a big game, Duke would be in trouble. I thought 280 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: he was the difference. Obviously, he was the difference last 281 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: night in the game with twenty eight points, and I 282 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: just felt that, I mean, they're a hot team. We've 283 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: seen this before in the NCAA tournament, where if you 284 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: just get hot at the right time, and I think 285 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: of I don't know, Villanova eighty five and some other 286 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: teams in the tournament. Of course Valvano's team that won 287 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: it all in ninety three. That there's a magical part 288 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: of that, and I think he's tapped into that. And 289 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: one thing I noticed last night, I was sitting courtside 290 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: three rows back, right across from the Carolina bench. He 291 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: was so intensely engaged in every possession. He did not 292 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: take one possession off. And I looked across the floor 293 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: and I saw Shazewski sitting on the stool. And I 294 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: hate to say it, but it did that times look 295 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: like a younger guy coaching against an older guy. Yeah, 296 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: and you can credit Mike for sort of not overreacting 297 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: to every every bad bounce that he got, but it 298 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: really seemed like Hubert Davis just would not let one 299 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: possession go. The refs constantly warned him to back down 300 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: a little bit to temper his approach. He didn't really 301 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: listen to them, And I don't know, I think that 302 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: might have been worth a couple of points to carolineas 303 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: just the way I've never seen him so animated in 304 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: my life. But I think it worked last night, and 305 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: it worked in a big way. Well, isn't it ironic 306 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: that the first few times, first couple of times that 307 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: Mike Shashevski, who who Duke fans doubted as a hire, 308 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: faced the legendary Dean Smith, it was the feisty Shashevsky. 309 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: Before the first game is over, they ever play, and 310 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: Mike says, hey, the game's not Overdane. The more things change, 311 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: the more they stay the same. Here's Hubert Davis. You know, 312 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: the passionate fan base questions if he's the right higher 313 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: and he's moving on. Do you think Carolina can match 314 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: that sort of intensity against Kansas. I have this feeling 315 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: that Kansas was just licking its chops late in this game, 316 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: in thinking, listen, this is a prize fight, this is 317 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: Fraser Alie. We get the next fight. I don't know 318 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: if Carolina can match that. You know, I mentioned to 319 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: someone last night, you know, you made a great point, 320 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: And I'm kicking myself now for not having a line 321 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: in my column for the New York Post about how 322 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,239 Speaker 1: Hubert Davis was very much like a young Sheschewsky in 323 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: that game, and it was always like the older Mike 324 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: Shchevki got beaten by his younger self. Yeah, and he 325 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: was so I can't overstate it. I've been to a 326 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: lot of games pro and college and seeing coaches make 327 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: a difference, just how every single possession he was right 328 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: in the fight, and it did remind me of a 329 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: young coach k But yeah, and without question, and I 330 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: think that, you know, Hubert Davis, I think people looked 331 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: at his persona and wondered whether or not he had 332 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,239 Speaker 1: the fire to have a performance like that last night, 333 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: or to lead a team and a team that struggled. 334 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: And I asked Chevski the other day about that and 335 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: just what impressed him the most about when it looked 336 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: like Carolina wouldn't even make the NCAA tournament, how Hubert 337 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: kept that group together, and he said it was just 338 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: his poise, that he was always impressed by his poise, 339 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: just like Jeff Van Gundy said as a player in 340 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: the nineties with the Knicks. And he also said he 341 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: never tried to be like Dean Smith or Roy Williams. 342 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: You could tell he's being true to himself. And obviously 343 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: if you're not that players will see through it. And 344 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: I mentioned to someone last night that unfortunately the late 345 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: great Herb Brooks is no longer with us, but Hubert 346 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: Davis could use him tonight to say, we cannot lose 347 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: to Finland. If we lose to Finland after doing what 348 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: we did in the semi final, you will take this 349 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: to your graves. Right. Herbrooks told his players that in 350 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and I don't want to compare Kansas to Finland. 351 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: But there's a little bit of that sense because to 352 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: knock out coach k in his final game, obviously it's 353 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: your blood rival next door, and to win that game 354 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: is so emotional that place. I've been in the Superdome 355 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: many many times for NFL games. I was there for 356 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: the ninety three Final four, the Chris Webber time out 357 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: that he didn't have. I've never felt that that place. 358 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: That place just felt so much bigger and louder to 359 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: me than I've ever remembered it. And I think the 360 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: game made it that way. And so to now then 361 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: come back forty eight hours later and play Kansas, where 362 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: there's some history between North Carolina and Kansas obviously, but 363 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: not like North Carolina and Duke Right, It's gonna be tough, 364 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: but I would not put anything past the Tar Heels 365 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: and Hubert Davis at this point. In fact, if you 366 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: told me I had to put twenty bucks on it, 367 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: I'd put it on Carolina. Yeah, recency bias is a 368 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: powerful thing. But as I watched that game, I thought, 369 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: I know college basketball culturally as different. Now the players leave, 370 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: it's more of an airport tarmac. You know, you're just 371 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: ready to get on the next flight. That was as 372 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: good a college basketball game as I remember watching. I 373 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: mean it felt like I was watching Kentucky and Christian 374 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: Laytner or the turnaround jumper at the free throw line. 375 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: I mean it felt that magnificent. And again, it's a 376 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: powerful part of what we do for a living, as 377 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: you fall in love with the moments. But that David 378 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: Tyree catch in the moment, and that David Tyree catched, 379 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, twenty years later, it felt huge in the moment. 380 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: I'm watching history. This makes no sense. Who's David Tyree? 381 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: When I watched that last night and the back and 382 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: forth nature of it, I almost got sick watching the 383 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: duke player Williams miss free throws. Oh, and he's a good, 384 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: good model for student athletes and college sports. I mean, 385 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: he was the wrong guy for that to have happened too. 386 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: He's just he gets it. He's thoughtful, he's a really 387 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: good player. I think he'll be a good pro and 388 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: just a great representative for college sports. And I hated 389 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: that had happened to him. And he had come out 390 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: for all the press conferences during the NCAA tournament pre 391 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: and postgame, and I was with Duke in South Carolina 392 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, and then of course last night in 393 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: New Orleans, and he didn't come out after the game, 394 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: and I'm sure it was Duke protecting him a little bit, 395 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: and ban Caro came out and when del Moore and so, 396 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: and that's fine. I mean, he's not a professional athlete. 397 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: I think he probably would have handled himself with grace 398 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: in that situation. But I would say the other game, 399 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: I was at the Latner game in Philadelphia and the Spectrum, 400 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: and both teams played at such a high level, and 401 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: that's still probably the best basketball game I've ever covered. 402 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: I would maybe put this one right with it. The 403 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: other one is UNLV and ninety one in the semifinals 404 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: when Duke beat them. I was there. You were there, 405 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: and I remember flying in. I know you had a 406 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: relationship with that Vegas program in Tark, and I was 407 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: on the Vegas plane flying into Indianapolis. I sat next 408 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: to Tark for about twenty minutes on that flight, and 409 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: he was worried about later and I thought he was 410 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: just saying that, but he said, we have nobody to 411 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: cover him, and it turns out he was right. The 412 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: one I don't know if I would put that game 413 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: in the same category with Duke Kentucky and Duke UNC 414 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: last night because Vegas didn't play through the highest level 415 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: in that game. If they had and Duke prevailed, I'd 416 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: feel differently about it. It was the greatest moment in 417 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: coach K's career in a lot of ways. But I 418 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: don't think UNLV played at a very high level, so 419 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: I wouldn't put it with the other two games. Yeah, 420 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: Stacy Agman struggled. I believe Greg Anthony got into foul trouble. 421 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: If I recall that team, Grant Hill was a freshman 422 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: the year before. Remember UNLV won the year before in 423 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: Denver thirty right, I think all abdual Nobby may have 424 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: been on that team. If I recall again, this is 425 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: this is years and years ago. Then the next year 426 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: they faced those same guys. The difference was Later and 427 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: Hurley were better and Grant Hill was a freshman. I 428 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: think I'm right on that ean right, absolutely, we didn't 429 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: know much about him and that was really the difference. 430 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: So John Shire, we have a long history of a 431 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: legendary coach picking his successor, and it capsizes a program 432 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 1: for the short term Shires mid thirties from Illinois, solid player. 433 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: What do we know about him? You tell me? Was 434 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: this absolutely completely handpicked or did the administrators at Duke 435 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: feel this was a year out the right choice. Well, 436 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: it was amazing for me personally. It was like a 437 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: full circle moment. Last night, I'm sitting there watching some 438 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: of the first game Kansas Villanova and I get a 439 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: text from somebody telling me that Tommy Amaker is sitting 440 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: right behind me. And Tommy Amaker, if you recall, was 441 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: in my book and in the excerpence that came out 442 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: that the university offered a job to him first, and 443 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: that had not been reported previously, and that caused a 444 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: great star on campus and around college basketball. In fact, 445 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: I was told that Coach K ultimately rea stout to him. 446 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: They had a conversation after my excerpt ran in the 447 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: New York Post and then on ESPN as well. But 448 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: Aberka was sitting directly behind me and I ended up 449 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: having a chat with him and it was pleasant. But 450 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: the university wanted him and Coach K wanted Shire, and 451 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: for the first time ever, Coach K and Duke were opponents. 452 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: And guess what Coach K won that's what he usually does, right. 453 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: He didn't last night, but he's won twelve hundred and 454 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: two times as a Division one head coach, so he 455 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: got his way. He got Shire in there. I think 456 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: John will do a very good job. I think he'll 457 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: be there a long time if he wants to be 458 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: I really do. He went out out of the gate 459 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: and signed the number one recruiting class in the country, 460 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: so it's hard to argue with that. So he'll get talent. 461 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: Chris carrollwell told me. And Carroll is also the associate 462 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: head coach at Duke and was on the wrong end 463 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: of probably the worst brating that coach K ever gave 464 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: a Duke player. But their relationship came full circle. He's 465 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: on the staff and he said, listen, John Higher can 466 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: recruit African American players. He's I've seen him build relationships 467 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: with those players in their families and he gets it, 468 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: and I think he's going to do a tremendous job. 469 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: You said he was a solid player. I believe he 470 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: said solid or something to that effect. He was better 471 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: than that. I mean John John would have played in 472 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: the NBA for a while. What happened was he averaged 473 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: twenty on that national championship team. He was pretty much 474 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: the best player on that team, and he was going 475 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: to play with Lebron James in Miami and he got 476 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: a serious eye injury. But I think he would have 477 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: been an NBA player for six to eight years, and 478 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: so he was good. He was a good player, and 479 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: I think he relates well to all players and prospects. 480 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: And if he can recruit the way he showed he 481 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: ken out of the gate, maybe he'll be there twenty 482 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: five thirty years. I'm not saying forty two, but he 483 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: is the same age basically that coach K was when 484 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: he took the job in nineteen eighty, so I suspect 485 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 1: that he'll end up being the right choice. I'm not 486 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: a huge fan of getting involved or coach K getting 487 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: involved when the university wanted somebody else, particularly somebody who 488 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: had a great relationship with Sachevsky and Tommy Amaker. But 489 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: if you told me at the end of the day, 490 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: Shire will ultimately do a better job than America would have, 491 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have a problem with that. Yeah, I'll tell you. 492 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: The ratings have been fantastic for it. I'm a huge 493 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: NBA fan. I grew up with my Sonics and my 494 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: Portland Trailblazers in the Pacific Northwest. I think the league 495 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: is normalized stars missing games since Adam Silver took over. 496 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: I think it's discouraging. I said, as a prelude to 497 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: your interview that when I was a kid living two 498 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: hours from Seattle, going to a Sonics game and not 499 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: getting Jack Sikma in downtown Freddie Brown would have broken 500 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: my heart. I don't love seeing so many stars miss games. 501 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: But instead of focusing on that, I do think college 502 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: basketball we were starved for it, and there was something 503 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: to be said that. You know, the NBA zo was 504 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: almost been an opponent of college basketball, whereas college football 505 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: in the NFL really work well together. The NBA doesn't 506 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: like college basketball. They create the G League. It's not 507 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: a secret that Adam Silver is not a fan of 508 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: college basketball or the NCAA. Do you think this has 509 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: sustainability beyond this year and this year's ratings or do 510 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: you think the coach Kse story itself was the key 511 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: to what has been one of the more memorable March 512 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Madness events in our recent memory. That's a really good question, 513 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of it. Colin was just 514 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: seeing fans in buildings and obviously in those college atmospheres, 515 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: the passion of the last year we didn't have that, 516 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: and frankly, being there last night They're Superdome with seventy 517 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: seventy one thousand people, it felt good and I think 518 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: the players fed off that. I think it made for 519 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: much better TV to see packed college arenas. I don't know. 520 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: I like college basketball better in the eighties and early 521 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: nineties when you saw three and four year players go 522 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: to the Big East Tournament was my favorite event pretty 523 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: much every year to cover in New York. And when 524 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: you had Ewing and Mullen for three four years going 525 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: at each other and you saw our rivalries and relationships develop. 526 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: And what you're seeing now in college basketball, there's an 527 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: age gap two and the older teams do have an 528 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: advantage against younger, more talented opponents. That's fascinating to me. 529 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: Carolina was a little and in some spots a lot 530 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: older then Duke, and I do think that that's a difference. 531 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: I think one or two years alone makes a difference, 532 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: never mind three or four. Now, Duke was talent enough 533 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: to get past some of those older teams, but Manik, 534 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: who had a tough game for most of that game 535 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: last night, comes up with a big block of ban 536 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: Caro and then of course that huge three for if 537 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: he were what is he twenty three, twenty two, twenty 538 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,479 Speaker 1: three years old? If he were eighteen nineteen, I'm not 539 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: sure he would have survived those early struggles in that game. Yep. 540 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: And that was a big block of ban Caro, who 541 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 1: didn't really do much late in that game, and then 542 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: then making the shot when he was frustrated early his 543 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: shots weren't falling, making that three what was everything? So 544 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: I think that's where age can make a difference in 545 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: these big games. Yeah, the difference between a fifty five 546 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: and a fifty six year old, right is much different 547 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: than the difference between a twenty three year old and 548 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: a young twenty one year old. We see this in 549 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: youth sports, you know, you go to and look, the 550 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: younger you go, the singular year becomes more impactful. And 551 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: I think a part of what makes Villanova so viable 552 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: is they don't get five star guys. They often have, 553 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, like Gillispie, you know, no scholarship offers, He 554 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: plays forever. That really is the secret sauce of Villanova, 555 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: which is, we got twenty three year olds, you got 556 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: nineteen year olds. And let me tell you something. Their 557 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: ability to form chemistry. You've seen that with Villanova and 558 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: the tournament. There never the most vertical team. They often 559 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: lack size, their chemistry, the cohesiveness their fight is so 560 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: it's so palpable as a viewer. So I want to 561 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: segue to this because if I could jump in there 562 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: real quick about Villanova too. I picked them for the 563 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: final four. My wife thought I was crazy. She, by 564 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: the way, met you at a book signing in New Jersey. 565 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: She's a big vann of ours, and so she said, 566 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: why Villanova. I said, They've got a great coach and 567 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: they've got a great college point guard. He's not going 568 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: to be a great pro point guard. But when you 569 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: have those two things in the NSAY Tournament, usually good 570 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: things will will happen. But you're right. In recruiting, it's 571 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: almost these days you don't necessarily want the one and 572 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: done guys. You want the best of that second tier 573 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: who are really good but not good enough to go 574 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: to the pros before say three years. That's that's the 575 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: recruit you want. I think that's the recruit Villanova gets. Yeah. 576 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: And by the way, it feels like and I don't 577 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: find follow college basketball recruiting, it feels like Carolina. At 578 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: the end of Roy's run, he was getting some of 579 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: those older players that you're like, I don't know they'll 580 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: play overseas. You know, they don't feel maybe a deep 581 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: second round guy. But I think to your point, I 582 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: think Carolina the age it matters, and it's been wonderful 583 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: so far. I'm not sure who I like. By the way, 584 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: this or air Monday morning, I'm not sure who I 585 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: like tonight. Make sure to check out The Draymond Green Show. 586 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: I brought Draymond Green into the Volume because one of 587 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective understands behind 588 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Peyton, 589 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download The Draymond Green 590 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: Show wherever you get your podcasts, only on the Volume 591 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: podcast Network. I've got to ask you one Tiger Woods question. 592 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: He's gone from can't walk to May play at the 593 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: Masters over the course of about six months. Your gut 594 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: feeling this morning, if we see Tiger this weekend. Oh, 595 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: so he's got to make the cut. I thought you're going, 596 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: will he play? Yes? Yes, And listen, he's got a 597 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: Tuesday press conference schedule at eleven a m. Eastern and 598 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: he's scheduled to practice today Monday. He practiced Sunday at Augusta, 599 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: and I think he'll play nine holes today, maybe eighteen, 600 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: who knows, but probably nine. And absolutely at this point, 601 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: there's no way he even last week would have shown 602 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: up at Augusta National to practice if he wasn't planning 603 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: on playing. Now, if he wakes up Thursday morning and 604 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, out of the blue, his leg 605 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: is killing him, then I guess. But no, he's playing. 606 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: He's playing, and now whether or not he'll make the cut, Listen, 607 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: He's never entered a tournament in his life that he 608 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: didn't expect to win. He doesn't expect to win this Masters. 609 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: But I believe, deep down he thinks he has a shot, right, 610 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: so he'll never enter a tournament where he feels he 611 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: has no shot. So I think he must believe he's 612 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: got a little bit of a shot to pull this off. 613 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: Ben Hogan, of course, did it in sixteen months, nearly 614 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: got killed by a greyhound bus. Sixteen months later, he 615 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: wins the US Open. Tigers talked about Hogan and that 616 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: comeback is the greatest in the history of golphin, maybe 617 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: in the history of sports. This is now thirteen months 618 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: in change. So if he could somehow contend, which may 619 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: seem unlikely and which may seem really improbable when then 620 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: he out Hogan's Hogan Now, I mentioned that in Calm. 621 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 1: I got a lot of blowback from older fans who said, Listen, 622 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: Ben Hogan almost died getting hit by a greyhound bus 623 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: that swerved into his lane. You can't compare that to 624 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: a self inflicted crash or rollover. And we don't know 625 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: all the details really of what where Tiger was and 626 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: was he asleep. So I've gotten that from some older fans, 627 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: and I sort of brushed that aside. To me, Hey, 628 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,879 Speaker 1: the guy came back from nearly having his leg amputated 629 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: in a crash after crash thirteen plus months ago. If 630 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: he somehow contends, that's gonna be one of the greatest 631 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: golf stories of all time. Listen, his last Master's win was. 632 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I've said this, it's one of the seminal 633 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: golf memories of my life. I mean, we've all got 634 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: the norm and at the Masters, we've got Tiger and 635 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: that Rocco mediate playoff to me at the US Open. 636 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: Tigers win at the Master's last time was one of 637 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 1: the one of the few times I always try to 638 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: consider myself sort of a judge, you know, the fans 639 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: of the jury, the participants are the DA and the 640 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: prosecuting attorney, and I'm just a judge, right. I was 641 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: so emotional watching that, and so I mean, I don't 642 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 1: know if you can top it. Do you you remember 643 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: his last Masters win? What stuck out to you? Oh? Yeah, 644 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: I think I've been doing his thirty six thirty seven years. 645 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: It's the greatest sporting event I've ever recovered, And partly 646 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: because my brother. It was my last trip with my brother. 647 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,359 Speaker 1: I never got a Master's ticket until That's the first 648 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: time I ever got a Master's ticket. That was the 649 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: twentieth one I covered, and I gave it to my brother, 650 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: so he had never been to a major before. So 651 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: we go and there we had a point blank look 652 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: at the sixteenth green at the put that basically sealed it. 653 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: And we're walking to the seventeenth tea and I said, Dan, 654 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: you've never seen a major golf championship. You were now 655 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: watching the greatest masters of all time. And unfortunately, unexpectedly 656 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: he died months later, so it was our last trip together. 657 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: So I admit that's part of why it's to me 658 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 1: the greatest courting. But I think even if you took 659 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: that away, and boy I wish I could, that would 660 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: still be number one. It was just remarkable to see 661 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: him win after what he had endured, and again, some 662 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: of it was, if not a lot of it was 663 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: self inflicted. But I choose to look at the art 664 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: and the artist and sort of separate and put it 665 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 1: in its own category in box and appreciate the greatness. 666 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: And then to see him hug his son afterward. Oh, 667 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: really close to that moment after obviously in ninety seven 668 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: being there when Earl hugged him, it was, Man, it's 669 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: hard to beat that. It is Ian O'Connor, such great insight. 670 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: I absolutely love that You're going to be a regular 671 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: for the volume. From a basement, an undisclosed location, this 672 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: is how Dick Cheney lived when he was in the 673 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: White House. We never knew where he was exactly, but 674 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: it was an abasement somewhere in DC. It's great seeing 675 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: you you too, Colin my pleasure, Thanks for having me. 676 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: You bet the volume