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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't every about a Hello Hello. That was

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Speaker 1: a bummer of a game tonight. Kind of honestly feels

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Speaker 1: like one of those games where it's like, no matter

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Speaker 1: how much do you think you could do right, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of one of those that just creeps up on.

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Speaker 2: You, you know, and and you just end up losing it. Right.

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Speaker 1: There were so many there were so many decisions that

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Speaker 1: they've made that have worked out for them this, you know,

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Speaker 1: this whole season.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've seen a lot of people talking about,

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Speaker 2: you know, Garrett Whitlock. He should have been in the game.

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Speaker 1: I saw someone talking about, uh, you know, Garrett Whitlock.

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Speaker 1: The fact that he's a guy that throws a lot

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Speaker 1: of change ups, or he has a he throws a

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Speaker 1: good mix of him. You know, why is he coming

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Speaker 1: in after a guy like Giolito who's changed up heavy?

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Speaker 1: But to me, you know, I got a couple of

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Speaker 1: reasons why I was okay with Whitlock coming in after

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Speaker 1: Geel I have more of an issue with.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of one of those where like.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I'm upset, Yeah I'm mad, But it's kind

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Speaker 1: of just one of those games where you just lost.

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Speaker 1: You know, you could throw your best out there, and

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Speaker 1: it's not gonna win you every game. You know, you

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Speaker 1: can maybe nitpick a couple of little things. But it's

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Speaker 1: like I see in the chat, Jonathan, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: when they just got away from you.

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Speaker 2: You know, you did great with the offense.

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Speaker 1: Glito was looking pretty much great all night until the

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Speaker 1: rough inning to end his night. You know, you go

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Speaker 1: with one of your better arms and Garrett Whitlock. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those where you just lost it. Kudos to

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Speaker 1: the Blue Jays. I think that's kind of where the

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Speaker 1: credit lies, you know, tip of the cap to them.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the Red Sox necessarily lost this one.

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Speaker 1: I think the Blue Jays just won it. But there

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Speaker 1: are a couple of things that I wasn't a big

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Speaker 1: fan of, and I'll talk about that in the right

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Speaker 1: down for tonight. Just the bummer of a game. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was on the playback stream tonight. I was watching it.

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Speaker 1: It was a feel good game, you know, obviously good

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Speaker 1: vibes yesterday. They'd been playing very well lately, and it

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Speaker 1: kind of just lose that one tonight.

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Speaker 2: That's stunk. So but I got a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you my thoughts on where I think maybe

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Speaker 1: the red Sox went wrong in this one. Before I

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Speaker 1: do go any further, just gotta have a word from

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Speaker 2: All right, go check out Harry's. They do have good stuff.

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Speaker 2: I've used this stuff before.

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Speaker 1: And for the price that they have, the deal they

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Speaker 1: have going on, I absolutely think it's worth it.

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Speaker 2: Use the code foul.

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Speaker 1: Great deal going on over there. So let's get into

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Speaker 1: it here. You know, the bullpen that was the story

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Speaker 1: of the night. Well, the story of the night was

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Speaker 1: Lucas Gilito. I'll get to him just a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I thought for the most part he looked solid, you know,

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Speaker 1: just the one inning you know, did him in. But

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Speaker 1: let's kind of get to the bullpen, right, I'll get

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Speaker 1: to the offense and everything in just a little bit.

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Speaker 1: We'll get caught up to speed. But everyone's focused on

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Speaker 1: how do we lose this game tonight? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I see people saying, oh, you know, Whitlock, he came

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Speaker 1: in for the seventh you know again, I saw a

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Speaker 1: guy or a couple of people out there saying on Twitter, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's too similar to Lucas Gielito. Why was

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Speaker 1: he coming in? You know, you should have gone with

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Speaker 1: a different look. Listen, listen, Garrett, Whitlock's one of your

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Speaker 1: best relievers of the year. He's a guy that's perfect

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Speaker 1: for the seventh inning, you know, and you know, come

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Speaker 1: in for a couple of innings. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: that was okay to go with. To me, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: the fact that he, you know, has a change up

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Speaker 1: in his repertoire that I saw some people saying on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: It's more than he just left one hanging right over

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Speaker 1: the plate and Santander just took him deep. You can't

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Speaker 1: leave a change up like that high in the zone,

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Speaker 1: up in the zone to a guy like Anthony Santander,

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Speaker 1: a guy who I've been you know, talking about in

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Speaker 1: recent games, saying, this guy is due man. You know,

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Speaker 1: this guy hit over forty home runs last year. You

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Speaker 1: can't leave an off speed pitch right there at the

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Speaker 1: top of the zone. Stander is exactly the kind of

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Speaker 1: a guy that will take that to town. And like

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Speaker 1: Dennis Ecklessly, I cannot speak like Dennis Eckersley used to say,

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Speaker 1: he'll take your lunch. I mean, that's Anthony Santander. Man,

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Speaker 1: That's the reason he got the big bucks.

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Speaker 2: He's a power.

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Speaker 1: So that, to me, I don't think it was the

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Speaker 1: fact that he throws change ups is a is a

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Speaker 1: bad thing. I think he just hung a meat ball

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Speaker 1: right over the middle of the play basically now where

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Speaker 1: I think and It's kind of more of a hindsight thing, honestly,

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Speaker 1: because gi Alito was cruising.

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Speaker 2: In this game. It's kind of one of those where

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Speaker 2: it's what you know.

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Speaker 1: This is always the debate, right, you go with your gut,

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Speaker 1: you go with your feel, or.

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Speaker 2: Do you lean into the analytics. This is kind of

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Speaker 2: one where the analytics takes a w here.

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Speaker 1: Now you can make the argument that Gelida was left

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Speaker 1: in too long, but I think you could also kind

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Speaker 1: of go with a feel sort of thing here. You

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Speaker 1: gotta think, yes, I know Giolito, he's been having his

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Speaker 1: rehab starts down in the minor leagues. But listen, this

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Speaker 1: is this is a different game when you're pitching in

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Speaker 1: the major leagues. That's a that's a whole different ball game,

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Speaker 1: right there, No pun intended. You gotta think with gie Alito,

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Speaker 1: first start of the year, first start after so long, right,

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Speaker 1: adrenaline's running, but he's starting to get up there and

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Speaker 1: pitch count, he's starting to throw a couple too many,

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Speaker 1: a couple too many.

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Speaker 2: Pitches and uh so's to wear down a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So that's where if you were to look with hindsight,

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Speaker 1: maybe you could have had an arm or two, warming

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Speaker 1: up in the bullpen going into the sixth inning. But

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Speaker 1: then I also understand too he was cruising. But I

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Speaker 1: think you could look at that as again, this is

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Speaker 1: a guy who hasn't pitched since twenty twenty three in

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Speaker 1: a major league game. Maybe it would have been better

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Speaker 1: to be a bit more prepared in that scenario. And

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Speaker 1: these are the numbers to as well. Lucas Giolito in

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Speaker 1: his career third time through the order has a four

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Speaker 1: point aa e RA, a four point five six on

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Speaker 1: the FIP. He's always been prone to the home run ball.

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Speaker 1: It's not like this guy all of a sudden just

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Speaker 1: gave up, you know, a couple of home runs, like

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Speaker 1: what the might he never gives up home runs. No,

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Speaker 1: he's been a guy that's been home run prone in

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Speaker 1: his career one and a half home runs per nine.

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Speaker 1: That's always been a bit of a thorn in his side.

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Speaker 1: So I think the fact that he hasn't been great

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Speaker 1: third time through the order, prone to the home run ball,

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Speaker 1: I think you look back on that and that was

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Speaker 1: looking like a recipe for disaster. Right you look at

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Speaker 1: the sixth inning, this guy was just dripping sweat. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was giving it as all man. I mean, great

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Speaker 1: for Giolito tonight, you know, making the comeback like he did,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking back at what's been happening with him

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Speaker 1: over the last you know, year and you know, some

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Speaker 1: months at it on top of it, it's been a

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Speaker 1: tough time for him. So you know, great for him

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Speaker 1: to getting for getting back out there and you know,

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Speaker 1: doing a pretty solid job tonight.

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Speaker 2: But this is where you kind of look.

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Speaker 1: You know, you look at the numbers, you look at

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Speaker 1: the fact that he hasn't picked in a long time

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Speaker 1: in a major league game. But then you look at

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Speaker 1: the couple of outs that happened before he gave up,

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Speaker 1: the couple of home run balls both Vlad and Santan dare. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they got outs, but they were hard hit balls. So

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Speaker 1: that's where you look at that and you think, hmm hmm, Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe that was a bit of a That was a

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Speaker 1: sign right there he's leaving, you know, a couple of

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Speaker 1: pictures just a little too over the plate, was losing

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Speaker 1: the command just a little bit, and that was a

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Speaker 1: sign right there. But then he walked Springer, so you're thinking, hm,

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Speaker 1: and that was a bit of a battle to Springer

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Speaker 1: as well. What was that six or seven pictures can't remember.

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Speaker 1: Could that have been the time to take him out?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: You did have two outs, you did walk Springer, But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, a couple of swings can change

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Speaker 1: the course of the game, and that's what ended up happening.

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Speaker 1: You give up the home run of our show lefty bat.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that could have been a good spot to bringing

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Speaker 1: justin Wilson bringing the lefty there, he kept him in.

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Speaker 1: I understand you want to get him through six strong,

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Speaker 1: but then you give up the home run to Alejandro

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Speaker 1: Kirk that made a six to three.

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Speaker 2: So I don't.

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Speaker 1: Necessarily think the way the bullpen was handled was the

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Speaker 1: bad part. Yes, well, you know, yes, we talked about Whitlock, right,

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Speaker 1: he hung a change up. You know it's gonna happen, right,

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna be perfect all the time. But I

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Speaker 1: think the Red Sox in the end, they just simply

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Speaker 1: didn't set themselves up for success. About you were looking

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Speaker 1: great halfway through the game, but I think Giolito's outing

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Speaker 1: towards the end wasn't managed correctly. I don't think it

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Speaker 1: was necessarily that you brought in the wrong arms in

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Speaker 1: the bullpen. I think it was just you kind of

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Speaker 1: mismanaged getting gi Alito through that outing. That's what I think, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think you can look at both the analytics

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Speaker 1: and the traditional reasoning as well. Not great third time

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Speaker 1: through the order, prone to home run balls, but then

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Speaker 1: getting back to the field thing, it's been a long

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Speaker 1: time since he's pitched right, looking like he was running

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Speaker 1: out of gas a little bit. And I think you

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Speaker 1: could have, you know, looked at the you know, after

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Speaker 1: we made that first out to Vlad, maybe that was

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Speaker 1: a bit of a sign. I think the bullpen should

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Speaker 1: have been warm and ready to go after Vlad. I

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Speaker 1: think that would have been the time. In the end,

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Speaker 1: it is what it is. You know, he was cruising.

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Speaker 2: What can you do? What can you do?

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Speaker 1: But again I don't necessarily think bringing Whitlock into the

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Speaker 1: game was the decision that did them in.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they went to the bullpen quick enough.

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Speaker 2: That's my thought.

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Speaker 1: It is what it is, though I can understand not

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Speaker 1: going to the bullpen either or going to the bullpen

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: But gi Aledo, as for tonight, he looked great.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for you know, through the first five innings,

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Speaker 1: a little bumpy in the first couple of innings, right,

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Speaker 1: he looked like he was trying to find a feel

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Speaker 1: for things, but he really settled in. He was pounding

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Speaker 1: the zone. He was right around sixty percent of the

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Speaker 1: time in the zone tonight. He was changing speeds, he

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Speaker 1: was changing eye levels, he was going with fastballs up

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Speaker 1: and down all over the zone. He was going with

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Speaker 1: change ups up and down in the zone. He's throwing

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Speaker 1: off the timing of these Blue Jays batters. The majority

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Speaker 1: of the night, they couldn't time him up. But that's

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Speaker 1: another reason why I think gi Aledo you got to

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Speaker 1: be very careful going a third time through the order

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Speaker 1: with him, because he's not someone like Garrett Crochet who

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Speaker 1: can blow you away with stuff. He's gi Aledo is

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Speaker 1: a guy that relies on messing up the timing of

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Speaker 1: these batters, going with fastballs, going with changeups, mixing up speeds.

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Speaker 2: You gotta be careful of.

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Speaker 1: Those guys going third time through the order because they

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Speaker 1: can't blow you away with stuff like Crochet can. Right,

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Speaker 1: So I think that is something they're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: pay attention to with gi Alito. Every fifth day, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to have that bullpen ready fifth sixth inning.

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Speaker 2: That's just my thinking. But the fastball had life tonight.

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Speaker 1: You know, Gilido is a guy who's gonna sit around

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Speaker 1: ninety three ninety four. You know, he'll get it to

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Speaker 1: ninety five ninety six. Uh, but he's a guy that's

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Speaker 1: got a little bit of life on his fastball.

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Speaker 2: He has good extension.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and Penguin fan, I see with the decision

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Speaker 1: to walk the bases loaded was really odd. Varshow struggles

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Speaker 1: versus Vell and they intentionally walk him off the il

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Speaker 1: while Kirk was crushing the ball. I think it was

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Speaker 1: more just you had to try and get the double play,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you're kind of already you're in a

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Speaker 1: bit of a tough spot. They had the runnering score,

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Speaker 1: and it is kind of weird going with the back

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Speaker 1: to back intentional walks, But I understood the thinking behind

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Speaker 1: it because you're trying to get that DP, you know,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of a it is a weird spot.

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Speaker 2: I get it, you know, that is what it is.

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Speaker 1: But for the offense tonight, you know, they did what

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Speaker 1: they could. I mean, they put the runs on the

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Speaker 1: board tonight. I mean they had a pretty solid night.

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Speaker 1: And actually I was.

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Speaker 2: Talking about this during the game.

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Speaker 1: I actually really liked this offense tonight, and even a

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Speaker 1: part of me might sound weird, but almost preferred it

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Speaker 1: more to last night.

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Speaker 2: I know that might sound crazy. Don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 2: I love me a home run party. But what I

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Speaker 2: liked about the offense tonight is.

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Speaker 1: They did a little bit of everything. They went deep,

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Speaker 1: they were simply just putting the ball in play.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: You go to the first inning, Duran got the walk,

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Speaker 1: Raffi with the double, ended up getting the back from Yaria,

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Speaker 1: Rodriguez ended up scoring, and then Bregman followed up with

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Speaker 1: the home run.

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Speaker 2: There. They made it two to nothing.

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Speaker 1: Second inning with the walk steal's second Duran a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a not a blooper, but kind of a

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Speaker 1: soft hit out to left field. Drops in Raphael has

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Speaker 1: got the speed to score, and then you still got

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Speaker 1: the speedy Duran on the bases.

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Speaker 2: Devor's with the second double of the night.

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Speaker 1: That made it for nothing six inning, said he gets

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Speaker 1: on Narve Dog two run home runs. So you had

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Speaker 1: a bit of everything tonight with the offense, and I

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Speaker 1: appreciate that. Right, you're not gonna be hitting five to

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Speaker 1: six twenty home runs a game every single night, But.

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Speaker 2: I kind of just liked what they were doing to night.

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Speaker 2: You were kind of.

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Speaker 1: Attacking from a whole bunch of different angles, right, Penguin

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Speaker 1: fan Kirk can definitely hit a DP, but he's also

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Speaker 1: great sack flight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're definitely not wrong there. Definitely not

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Speaker 2: wrong there.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's kind of one of those where

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Speaker 1: I think, really the key to the loss tonight, the

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Speaker 1: real I think the main reason I think, again Giolito's

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Speaker 1: the end of it just wasn't managed the best way possible.

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Speaker 1: I think they're I don't know, it just felt like

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Speaker 1: you should have been a little bit more ready.

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Speaker 2: But I get it.

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Speaker 1: He was cruising, but you always want to be you know,

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Speaker 1: what's the old saying, better safe than sorry. You know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the guy's cruising along, he's looking great, he's getting the outs,

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Speaker 1: he's pumped up out there. Yeah, let him go back

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Speaker 1: out for the next inning. But if he starts giving

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Speaker 1: up a hard hit ball, a couple of hard hit balls,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's where you kinda you know, like,

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Speaker 1: all right, we're not gonna play around with this.

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Speaker 2: It's been over a year since you've pitched.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's pull you out before anything bad happens, and

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Speaker 1: then you could have gone justin Wilson against var Show.

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Speaker 1: I think that should have been the match up against

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Speaker 1: var Show, the lefty lefty.

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Speaker 2: That's just me, but it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a frustrating night. You're not gonna win all of

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Speaker 1: these you know, it's uh. They did a lot of

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Speaker 1: good things tonight, but you could do your best and

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Speaker 1: it's still not going to go your way. So Game three,

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Speaker 1: Game three, this should be an interesting one tomorrow. This

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Speaker 1: will be the deciding game in this series seven oh

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Speaker 1: seven Eastern time tomorrow before the Red Sox head back

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Speaker 1: home to play the Twins, who were not looking all

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Speaker 1: that good this year. So take it a look here,

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Speaker 1: Tanner how Jose Barrios. Both guys have had their ups

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Speaker 1: and downs this year. Tanner, howck? I mean, he's definitely

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Speaker 1: been prone to some bad outings. But Jose Barrios, this

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Speaker 1: is a guy where the advanced metrics don't particularly favor

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Speaker 1: him very well. And I coming into this series, I

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Speaker 1: said this could be a slugfest. Look at all the

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Speaker 1: experience against both these guys who have been having up

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Speaker 1: and down seasons up to this point, I mean, take

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Speaker 1: a look at the ops's against Jose Barrios, Jared Iran

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Speaker 1: eighteen AB these three home runs against Jose Barrios, Raffi

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Speaker 1: Devers with two home runs, a lot of AB's against him,

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Speaker 1: not a whole lot of success overall, only hitting one

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Speaker 1: to eighty four against him in his career, but two

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Speaker 1: home runs for Raffi Devers against Barrios. Bregman has a

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Speaker 1: couple of home runs against Barrios. Here a lot of

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Speaker 1: experience against him, so I think that could come into play.

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Speaker 2: But then he also goes back to Tanner Hawck.

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Speaker 1: There has been a lot of AB's against Tanner Hawk

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Speaker 1: from this lineup. Taking a look here, you know, looking

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Speaker 1: at someone like Vlad seven eighty three ops against him

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Speaker 1: in his career, hitting three point fifty, so he has

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Speaker 1: seen him well. Santander seventeen abs. Don't forget Santander saw

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Speaker 1: a lot of Hawk with the Orioles two ninety four

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Speaker 1: batting average against him in his career. Boba Schett, Boba,

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Speaker 1: Schet's having a great year. He had another good night

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Speaker 1: tonight hitting three hundred against Tanner. How can his career?

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Speaker 1: So I'll be honest, like I'm a little uncomfortable about

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Speaker 1: how can this one be because he has been so

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Speaker 1: up and down. I'm kind of hoping here, and you know,

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Speaker 1: Sontanderer got the home run tonight. He's been due, he's

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Speaker 1: been struggling this year, and could that be the swing

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Speaker 1: to get Santander.

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Speaker 2: Back on track. He's had success against Halck. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a little afraid of that maxup. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not liking this maxshup very much. We'll see he's gonna

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Speaker 1: have to step it up here, and he's gonna have

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Speaker 1: to get himself right.

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Speaker 2: If we go back to.

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Speaker 1: His last start against Cleveland, you know, he wasn't horrible,

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Speaker 1: but he wasn't great either. Five earned, four or five innings,

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Speaker 1: pitch eight, hits, four earned. He did have six strikeouts,

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Speaker 1: but you know, a bumpy outing, right. His last couple

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Speaker 1: of outings have been way better compared to what he

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Speaker 1: did against Tampa Bay when he gave up like eighty

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Speaker 1: two runs.

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Speaker 2: So we'll see.

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Speaker 1: You know, Tanner Howck, he's you know, trying to just

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Speaker 1: get himself right.

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Speaker 2: So a little afraid of this matchhup.

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Speaker 1: Now when it comes to Burrio in his last start,

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Speaker 1: he looked pretty good against the Yankees five and a third,

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Speaker 1: zero earned, five hits allowed. So then that Yankees lineup,

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Speaker 1: they've been just bopping all season so far, tons of

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Speaker 1: home runs from them. So I'm gonna be honest, I'm

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Speaker 1: favoring the Blue Jays a little bit in this one.

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Speaker 1: I'm not liking this match up very much, just based

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Speaker 1: off of, you know, just the ups and downs of

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Speaker 1: how all the all the experience against him in this lineup.

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Speaker 1: But the Red Sox they've seen Barrios well too, so

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Speaker 1: this could go either way. I am a little uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: about this start for Hawk though. I see some of

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Speaker 1: you in the chat here. What do we got, Jonathan?

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Speaker 1: Hopefully Tanner can figure it out and take the series, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure. Do you think Gielido's confidence takes a hit

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Speaker 1: going forward? No, I don't think so, Robert, I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I think he looked great.

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Speaker 2: You know, the guy was really cruising along here tonight.

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Speaker 1: I just think they're gonna have to take a better

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Speaker 1: approach with just handling his outing overall, you know.

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Speaker 2: And I think for the Red.

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Speaker 1: Sox, you know, I think they're gonna use this as

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Speaker 1: a bit of a learning experience, a bit of a

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Speaker 1: lesson learned. Third time through the order with ge Alito

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Speaker 1: might not be the best thing unless you gotta you know,

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Speaker 1: And that's even saying too. They had a comfortable lead tonight,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know, you might see gi Alito not

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Speaker 1: go very deep into games, you know. Again, I know

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Speaker 1: it's his first start back in a long time, but

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how the Red Sox handle his

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Speaker 1: outings moving on forward. So, Penguin Fan Toronto the last

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Speaker 1: ten games is sleuting today, have a nice cold, so

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Speaker 1: I hack is a good opportunity. Yeah, that's another you know,

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Speaker 1: But I just wonder about tonight right the Blue Jays Bats,

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Speaker 1: they woke up there, they got a feel good comeback win.

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Speaker 1: They got a little bit of momentum going here. So

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Speaker 1: let's see what ends up happening. So but everybody, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna wrap it up right there. Thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: for the postgame show tonight. Really do appreciate that if

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Speaker 1: you can on the way out hit the like button

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Speaker 1: for me. It really does help out with the algorithm

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the play the replay viewers, that

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Speaker 1: really does help. And if you are listening to this

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Speaker 1: via podcast wherever you listen to your podcast, Spotify, Apple, whatever.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a five star review really does help us out.

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Speaker 1: But everybody, we'll be back here tomorrow night for the

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Speaker 1: series finale. Go enjoy the rest of your night. Kind

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Speaker 1: of a bummer, I know it is what it is,

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Speaker 1: but we'll be back here tomorrow hopefully they can pick

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Speaker 1: up the win.

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Speaker 2: Have yourself a great night, everybody, and I'll talk to

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Speaker 2: you next time.