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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've

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Speaker 1: Never told you. Early in my Stuff I've Never Told

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Speaker 1: Your career, I used to produce the Stuff I've Never

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Speaker 1: Told You video series with past host and Forever creator

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Speaker 1: Kristen Conger, and we did this super awkward, purposely awkward,

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Speaker 1: just to be clear, funny mini series called Her Story. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It was meant to be like a bad public access

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Speaker 1: show and it was a lot of work, but it

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Speaker 1: was one of my very favorite things, and it's still

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, so you can go check it out. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we did an episode on Mrs Clause as in the

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Speaker 1: Mrs Claus married to Santa Claus. And at the time

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Speaker 1: we recorded it, we were on a super time crunch

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Speaker 1: because it was Christmas holidays, We're coming up and we

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Speaker 1: all had places to be, so I remember feeling incredibly

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Speaker 1: rushed and I kept thinking about, oh, I still have

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Speaker 1: to edit this, um. But when it came together, the

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Speaker 1: story of Mrs Claus was and it is so interesting

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Speaker 1: and often forgotten UM and I it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things I've never really thought about it before because all

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Speaker 1: the attention is always going to Santa. But this holiday season,

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Speaker 1: spare thought the off Forgotten Mrs Claus, Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom Never told you from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristin. Kristin.

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Speaker 1: Happy holidays to you, Thank you, Melad Tidings, Bad Tidings.

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Speaker 1: We have been doing this podcast for almost a year

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Speaker 1: and something I always remarked to Christen is how doing

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Speaker 1: a podcast like this where you learn all sorts of

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Speaker 1: facts about women, just it can change your whole world view.

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Speaker 1: You know, a suing. You'll be out at dinner and

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Speaker 1: someone will say something kind of casually. You'll be like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: that is so patriarchal. Whoa whoa whoa, Yeah, that's exactly chick. No,

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Speaker 1: actually you can pick up the chick. And you know

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Speaker 1: if friend gets married and all of a son, you're like,

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Speaker 1: well you better go by miss. I mean it just

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Speaker 1: it clouds your worldview. And then something like Christmas and

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Speaker 1: well maybe clouds your worldview is the wrong way to

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Speaker 1: put it. Just opens your eyes to the way the

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Speaker 1: world runs and regards to some things. Yeah, you get

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Speaker 1: a different, you know, different perspective on things, which is

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Speaker 1: what we hope to present to our wonderful listeners. So

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Speaker 1: today we're gonna give maybe an exaggerated perspective, the exaggerated

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Speaker 1: feminist perspective, perhaps on Santa Claus. Yeah, I mean, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's time. It's time we took Santa down a notch,

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Speaker 1: because who who is this guy who comes and breaks

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Speaker 1: into our houses while we're asleep, you know, And and

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Speaker 1: we were supposed to make cookies for him, We're supposed

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Speaker 1: to like crawl up into his lap at a crowded

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Speaker 1: mall to ask him for something new and shiny. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, what what is that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: we just a few podcasts ago, we're talking about Edward

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Speaker 1: Cullen and we totally distant for all of those things. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and and let's also point out no one,

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Speaker 1: no one asked Santa to go on a diet. But

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Speaker 1: if you pick up any women's magazine between now and January,

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Speaker 1: I guarantee there will be at least one article about

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Speaker 1: holiday weight exactly. I mean, can you can I mean

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Speaker 1: double standard? Is this a patriarchohol day or what? And

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Speaker 1: so one time we were reading this article about, you know,

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Speaker 1: how women are sometimes in the shadow of their male husbands,

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Speaker 1: and I think that one woman who's definitely been in

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Speaker 1: the shadow for too long is Mrs Santa Claus. We

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Speaker 1: don't even know her name. We know Chris, Chris Kringle,

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Speaker 1: Santa Claus, Mrs Santa Claus, she has no name, what's

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Speaker 1: your name? And she's a missus. We've talked about that,

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Speaker 1: We've talked about whether ms should be sort of a

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Speaker 1: feminist standard. All of a sudden, she's just going by

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Speaker 1: her husband's name. Obviously changed her name when she got married.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is this holiday is leading up to

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Speaker 1: a combination of all our previous podcasts. Think, Kristen, this

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Speaker 1: is really what we've been working up to. Um. But

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Speaker 1: one thing I thought was kind of kind of cool

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Speaker 1: about Mrs Claus was that she also her emergence in

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Speaker 1: holiday lore I think kind of symbolizes, um, how Christmas evolved,

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Speaker 1: in the celebration of Christmas evolved. True, because for a

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Speaker 1: long time, basically Christmas was set up as this day

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Speaker 1: that was facilitated by one guy driving around in a

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Speaker 1: sleigh and delivering all presents. He's responsible for everything. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I admit Santa does a lot on Christmas Eve. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of busy he's I mean, he

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Speaker 1: does an awful lot. I don't want to discount his achievements,

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Speaker 1: even if I do find him a little creepy, but

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Speaker 1: and also impressive that he can eat that many cookies

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Speaker 1: in one night. Do you think maybe he's at risk

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Speaker 1: for diabetes? And that much milk, all that dairy well

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Speaker 1: milk does make a body strong. What if Santa was

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Speaker 1: like disindolerant? Have you ever thought about that? But you

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Speaker 1: know who we'd expect to take care of him in

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Speaker 1: that guard, Mrs Clause Clause. And that's the thing that

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Speaker 1: we're going to try and get out today is behind

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Speaker 1: every good man, in this case, Santa Clause, there are

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Speaker 1: a ton of great women who without whom he would

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Speaker 1: not be possible. Yeah, we first see and we found

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Speaker 1: this out in a paper by Carol Anne Marling called

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Speaker 1: the Revenge of Mrs Claus Mrs Santa Claus Um. And

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Speaker 1: she found in her research that the first instance of

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Speaker 1: Mrs Santa Claus pops up in a children's publication called

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Speaker 1: Harper's Young People in eight one, and it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: Marlon calls it sort of an unremarkable Christmas story and

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Speaker 1: that I'll you know, all of a sudden, Mrs Santa

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Speaker 1: Claus pops up. She's described as plump, much like her husband,

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Speaker 1: good natured, and her jobs include being the supervisor of

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Speaker 1: the North Pole Bakery and candy factory, and she also

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Speaker 1: trimmed hats for Christmas dolls for the little girls. But

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Speaker 1: unlike the docile Elves, Mrs Claus did not like it

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Speaker 1: when she did not receive credit for for all the

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Speaker 1: work that she did, I know, which is sort of

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing because you think about the North Pole

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Speaker 1: being all cheery. Maybe Mrs Claus was sort of like

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Speaker 1: um Lily Leadbetter of her time, wanting to do credit

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Speaker 1: and reward for the work she did. Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and rightly so. But those were a lot of little

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Speaker 1: hats that she had to trim. I mean, all Santa

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Speaker 1: had to do was make blocks for the boys, and

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Speaker 1: there were other and why are these toys so gendered?

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Speaker 1: I diright, alright? Uh? And there were also a number of,

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Speaker 1: you know, other notable women who put their mark on

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Speaker 1: this portrayal of Mrs Santa Clausum, including Catherine Lee Bates,

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Speaker 1: who wrote the words to America The Beautiful Um, and

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Speaker 1: she wrote a biography of Santa Mrs Santa Claus in

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Speaker 1: called Goody Santa Claus on a sleigh ride. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that means that her name was Goody, do

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Speaker 1: you know. I don't know why she would take on

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Speaker 1: the whole name though, Goody Santa Claus maybe, so it

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Speaker 1: might just be it might just be vernacular at the time.

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Speaker 1: And then we also have Lucimate Alcott, who wrote Little Women, um,

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Speaker 1: who also mentions Mrs Claws in one of her many

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Speaker 1: magazine stories, and she also portrayed her as bespectacled and childless.

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Speaker 1: And what she would do is she would wait patiently

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Speaker 1: for her husband's return from a night in the world's

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Speaker 1: chimneys on Christmas Eve. So now all of this is

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Speaker 1: happening in the eighteen eighties, late um, eighteen hundreds, turn

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Speaker 1: of the century, and it's a it's a pretty market

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Speaker 1: contrast to the stuff that had come before. Like think

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Speaker 1: of Clement Moore's famous poem about the Night before Christmas

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Speaker 1: got the Jolly Old Elf. Um. There were a lot

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Speaker 1: of artists at the time who were just showing Chris

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Speaker 1: Chris Kringle working all year long to bring all these toys. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was living alone though he was a bachelor in

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Speaker 1: all these earlier versions of him, and by the eighteen

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Speaker 1: eighties women were sort of maybe a little disgruntled about

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Speaker 1: such a depiction. Yeah, because by this time Christmas would

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Speaker 1: really become the primary like annual celebration um in American homes,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of the asked for decorating the

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Speaker 1: house and fixing the figgy pudding and trimming the tree

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Speaker 1: and lighting the candles fell to the women of the house.

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Speaker 1: So it became this sort of like domestic Olympics at

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Speaker 1: Christmas time because there was so much to do. Um.

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Speaker 1: The women were in charge of wrapping all this just

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Speaker 1: domestic finery. And women were kind of like, there's no

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Speaker 1: way that that bachelor living up there with all those

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Speaker 1: elves can do this by himself, and that's that's why

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Speaker 1: they think maybe Mrs Claus came into being yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then she mentions, Caroline Marlon mentions in her paper

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Speaker 1: that in nine ten there is a Good Housekeeping um

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Speaker 1: forum and for men about Christmas, and they basically, um

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Speaker 1: kind of confirmed this idea that women were the ones

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Speaker 1: who kind of made Christmas added the Christmas finery to

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Speaker 1: the occasion. They were like, oh, just if you want

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Speaker 1: to give me a box of cigars, there's no need

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Speaker 1: to wrap it up. Give me the cigar. So all

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Speaker 1: your memories of wrapped presents and the smell of baking

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Speaker 1: and all these things that people you know probably lists

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Speaker 1: their main Christmas memories were done by women that they're

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Speaker 1: getting from women's magazines, and thus women's magazines writers like

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Speaker 1: Luis may Alcott took the time to give Santa a

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Speaker 1: domestic partner. And this article We keeps Signing by Carol

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Speaker 1: Anne Marling. She goes on to sort of make a

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Speaker 1: hypothesis that our modern day Mrs Claus, aside from the

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Speaker 1: one who does live in the North Pole, is Martha Stewart,

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Speaker 1: who you know, just does does turn Christmas into a

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Speaker 1: domestic Olympics and shows you how to do it upright.

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Speaker 1: I think Martha deserves her own podcast at some point,

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Speaker 1: But I just thought that was sort of an interesting

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Speaker 1: argument that we see Mrs Claus as this person who

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Speaker 1: just keeps the North Pole running. Santa couldn't do with that,

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Speaker 1: or she's got to oversee elf. She's got a feed reindeer,

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Speaker 1: she's got a feed Santa's cookies. The other three D

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Speaker 1: sixty four days of the year. She's got a lot

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Speaker 1: to do and I think would be better if she

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Speaker 1: was a little more celebrated. Yeah, now, speaking of Santa's helpers, Molly,

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Speaker 1: there are some possible women. This is a very contentious okay,

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Speaker 1: topics that we're about to bring up. Okay, the issue

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Speaker 1: of the reindeer, because Santa could not fly around the

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Speaker 1: world without the reindeer. The reindeer. Yeah, without the reindeer,

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Speaker 1: Christmas would be could put. But the question is are

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Speaker 1: these reindeer actually female reindeer? I mean, you wouldn't think

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Speaker 1: so just by the songs you know about these reindeer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know any other girl's named Rudolph, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or Donda or blitz In Yeah, I mean Vixen. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you could kind of see her being like a tomboy

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Speaker 1: girl who got in with the guys. But why would

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Speaker 1: we think the reindeer are women? Because in popular culture,

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Speaker 1: if you look at all the pictures, I've never seen

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Speaker 1: a reindeer, even though I used to stay up all

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Speaker 1: night looking for them. Um, in all the pictures of

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Speaker 1: Santa that have been taken with the reindeer, the reindeer

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Speaker 1: have antlers, and we learned that reindeer and caribou are

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Speaker 1: the only deer where the male as females and calves

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Speaker 1: produced antlers, and they shed them annually every year, which

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Speaker 1: is why I just said annually. Um. But the female

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Speaker 1: or cows, um. The female reindeer will keep their antlers

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Speaker 1: longer than the males will. So, according to snopes dot Com,

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Speaker 1: the fact that Santa's reindeer still have antlers on December

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Speaker 1: a k a. Christmas Eve indicates that they are likely female,

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Speaker 1: right because the males would have shed their antlers by

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Speaker 1: that point right now. Snopes goes on to say that

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Speaker 1: there are a few problems with this theory. One possible

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Speaker 1: theory is that um other sletters other people who use

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Speaker 1: sleighs often use castrated males known as steers, who might

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Speaker 1: still have their antlers. Now. The reason that you would

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Speaker 1: want to use a steer, um sletters say, is because

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Speaker 1: that they're going to be in better bodily shape by winter,

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Speaker 1: because they've been mating and all the months leading up

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Speaker 1: to December. So you're gonna have a mail that's fresh

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Speaker 1: as opposed to one that's kind of worn out. Although

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Speaker 1: I don't tend to think of a lot of mating

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Speaker 1: going on up at the North Pole. But I don't

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Speaker 1: really know that much about reindeer. Yeah, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: even if that is the case, it's in as reindeers

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Speaker 1: are just a pack of steers. I think it also

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Speaker 1: has a nice twist on Christmas that he's just flying

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Speaker 1: around with his band of eunuchs, his castrated males. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that's why they wouldn't let Rudolph play in their reindeer games.

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Speaker 1: They were grumpy. Yeah. Um, But there is another theory

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Speaker 1: that um Snopes points out is that already there there

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Speaker 1: are a few other species of reindeer that, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not, can fly. Um, so that was pretty much

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Speaker 1: the only one. So they do say that the fact

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Speaker 1: that this is a certain species of reindeer that can

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Speaker 1: fly might indicate that they might be able to keep

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Speaker 1: their antlers longer than other types of reindeer. However, christ

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna prefer to think that it's all ladies

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Speaker 1: up there pulling Santi around with their ingenious sense of direction.

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Speaker 1: Is now another lady of Christmas of the winter Yule

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Speaker 1: tide season that we found that we thought was kind

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Speaker 1: of cool. Um who also helps st Nick. This a

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Speaker 1: woman called Laba Fauna. Laba Fauna, she is an Italian

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Speaker 1: lady who also brings children gifts. She doesn't do it

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Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve. She tends to come more around Epiphany,

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Speaker 1: which is January January six. And according to the Italian legend,

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Speaker 1: when the wise men went out looking for the baby Jesus,

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Speaker 1: they stopped by Laba Fauna's house, and she's this old

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Speaker 1: lady who had lost like her husband and her child,

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Speaker 1: and so she tended her house very diligently and kept

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Speaker 1: herself busy, and so the wise men stopped by to

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Speaker 1: see if she could point them in the direction of

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Speaker 1: the Christ child, and Laba Fauna said, not really, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't I don't know where he is.

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Speaker 1: I'm just sweeping my heart, keeping clean, making something, making

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Speaker 1: some things. Uh. And they asked if she would want

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Speaker 1: to come along on their journey, and she also declined.

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Speaker 1: But then Lata Funa got to thinking. She you know,

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Speaker 1: she was a widow, she used to have a child

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Speaker 1: of her own, and she was like, I love children,

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Speaker 1: I miss my child, and I bet that new mom

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Speaker 1: needs some help, which I just think is a great

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Speaker 1: sign of female solidarity. I don't think she was going

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Speaker 1: to go and judge that lady for any parenting decisions

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Speaker 1: she was making, such as co sleeping, her breastfeeding. She

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Speaker 1: just wanted to help out or immaculate conception. True, she's

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Speaker 1: not even gonna touched that one. All she does is

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Speaker 1: she packs up her broom, she puts some gifts for

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Speaker 1: the child in a sack, and she sets off to

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Speaker 1: find this christ child Um, like the Wise Man had

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Speaker 1: told her about Um. But she couldn't find him. So

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Speaker 1: she stopped in at all the houses to see if

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Speaker 1: that's the house she was looking for, and as long

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Speaker 1: as she was there, might as well leave a gift

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Speaker 1: for the child. And that's what she continues to do.

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Speaker 1: That's the legend of La Pafano. So if you're in Italy,

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Speaker 1: you know that you've got to be good. You got

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Speaker 1: to write your note to Laba fun and ask her

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Speaker 1: to visit you. And if you're bad, she's going to

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Speaker 1: bring you a call, not sweets or toys. No. So UM,

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Speaker 1: I think that that's a pretty cool legend of a

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Speaker 1: lady who helps out St. Nick. And these are the

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Speaker 1: these are the examples we have found. There might be

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Speaker 1: some more ladies out there. Behind st nick, So if

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Speaker 1: you know of any right in Yeah, and speaking of

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Speaker 1: writing in, why don't we do some listener mail? Okay? Well,

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Speaker 1: to start things off, I've got an email here from

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Speaker 1: Joyce and she was responding to our episode on co sleeping.

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Speaker 1: She said, I was kind of disappointed in your podcast

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Speaker 1: on co Sleeping with Baby, since you hinted about your

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Speaker 1: youthful age and acknowledge that you're not parents yourselves. I

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Speaker 1: felt you're rather unqualified to be speaking on such a topic.

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Speaker 1: It sounded like you're just some naive girls who read

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Speaker 1: and rehash some articles from Wikipedia or baby center dot com.

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Speaker 1: Side note, we actually didn't use either of those sites.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying this to bring you down. I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying that it's kind of cute. You reminded me of

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Speaker 1: myself ten years ago. And while this it is possible

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Speaker 1: to be both cute and inchaligent, this podcast really was

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Speaker 1: almost embarrassingly too cute. I suggest that next time you

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Speaker 1: do a show on a parenting topic, please included guests

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Speaker 1: who is more experienced, say a pediatrician, doula, are just

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Speaker 1: a plain parent, and I will take your word with

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Speaker 1: more than just a grain of salt cheers, Joyce. It's

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Speaker 1: a valid point, I think. I think, I wrote back

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Speaker 1: Joyce that we'd also done things um like on roller

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Speaker 1: Derby and vampires and witches, and we were none of

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Speaker 1: those things either. But that's why we rely on our

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Speaker 1: listeners to write in and tell us what it's actually

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Speaker 1: like to co sleep with the baby. And you can

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Speaker 1: rest assure that our sources are far more credible in

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Speaker 1: places like Wikipedia and baby center dot com. We do

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Speaker 1: take a lot of time to try to find very valid,

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Speaker 1: credible sources of inflammation. Next up an email from Christopher,

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Speaker 1: who writes in about the panty Hose podcast. He claims

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Speaker 1: to be one of the males that does wear pantyhose.

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Speaker 1: He writes, I am a construction worker and I only

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Speaker 1: wear them during cold other and under only under clothes.

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Speaker 1: I find that they help keep my feet and legs

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Speaker 1: warm in cold weather and much more comfortable to wear

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Speaker 1: than insulated underwear. No one that I work with knows

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Speaker 1: that I wear them, only my wife does. So yes,

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Speaker 1: my wife knows that I do this and does not

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Speaker 1: have a problem with it. I first started wearing them

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Speaker 1: when I played football in high school, and believe it

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Speaker 1: or not many of the guys did this, Molly, he

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Speaker 1: writes to me. And now you say you do not

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Speaker 1: like wearing pantyhose, but have you ever tried wearing some

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Speaker 1: better brands. It really does make a difference in how

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Speaker 1: they feel. My wife says she only likes to wear

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Speaker 1: the silky type. They generally cost a little more, but

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Speaker 1: according to my wife, makes it big difference. Last, but

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Speaker 1: not least, meeting a guy. I know that seeing a

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Speaker 1: woman in panty hose always gives my attention. I would

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Speaker 1: tell any single girl if they want to draw attention

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Speaker 1: to themselves, were sheer panty hose and see for yourself

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Speaker 1: how many guys will look your way. Most guys, whether

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Speaker 1: they admit it or not, find women in hosiery very attractive. So,

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Speaker 1: Molly and Kristen, now you're in this to Kristen. So

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Speaker 1: Molly and Kristen, you need to take my challenge and

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Speaker 1: go out on the town wearing pantyhose and see how

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Speaker 1: many more men will look your way. Well, Molly, today

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Speaker 1: I up to the auntie. Not only am I wearing pantyhose,

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing red pantyos. So we'll got to lunch and

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Speaker 1: we'll see how a manuet look your way or a

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Speaker 1: part back um. And to cap things off, we've got

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Speaker 1: an email in from Caitlin. She was responding to you

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Speaker 1: our episode on breastfeeding, and she said, as a breastfeeding mother,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate your insights and thought you handled the controversial

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Speaker 1: subject in an unbiased way. Before I had my son,

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Speaker 1: I knew I was going to breastfeed whenever he was hungry,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't want to retreat to a bathroom stall

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Speaker 1: since nowhere um in my college campus are their lactation rooms.

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Speaker 1: I also knew that I didn't want to and could

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Speaker 1: not afford to leave him with someone else while I

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Speaker 1: finished my bachelor's degree, so he goes to class and

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Speaker 1: work with me. Hence I find breastfeeding in the halls

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Speaker 1: and lobbies and the student center and even doing class.

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Speaker 1: I've actually been surprised that no one has ever had

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Speaker 1: a problem with this, or at least voiced it to me.

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Speaker 1: Some of my fellows students have even commented that they

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Speaker 1: didn't realize what I was doing, and my class only

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Speaker 1: has twenty people in it. My professors have been completely

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Speaker 1: supportive of me, and one even offered to hold my

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Speaker 1: son while I gave a presentation my class yesterday. I

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Speaker 1: think our society should be more supportive of breastfeeding mothers

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Speaker 1: and keeping their babies with them during the day. I'm

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Speaker 1: still just as productive as before, and I do not

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm distracting anyone by having my son around.

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Speaker 1: I think that's so cool. You can take him everywhere. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: if you guys have got something to share about any

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Speaker 1: of our topics or things you'd like to see become topics,

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Speaker 1: you can email us It's mom stuff at how stuffworks

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can also check out our blog, how

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Speaker 1: to Stuff, and if you want to learn a ton

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Speaker 1: about Christmas, you can do that at how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com and other Holidays. Also at how stuffworks dot

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Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

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Speaker 1: Because at how stuff works dot com. Want more how

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Speaker 1: stuff works, check out our blogs on the house stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com home page