WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Peace Sign

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck.

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry's here too, Dave's hear and spirit. This means it's

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<v Speaker 1>short stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're talking about the peace sign today. This was

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<v Speaker 2>put together by a guy named Josh Clark.

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<v Speaker 1>No, this is from Jesselyn Shields at how Stuff Works.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. I was just kidding around. Oh okay, or

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<v Speaker 2>actually I was serious. But as I was saying it,

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed I was wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, this is try to play already, stop laughing.

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<v Speaker 2>But we're talking. That's right. We're talking about the peace sign,

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<v Speaker 2>the very familiar circle with the one vertical line straight

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<v Speaker 2>down the center and then the two lines branching off

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<v Speaker 2>at forty five degree angles.

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<v Speaker 1>The peace sign. Everybody, come on, you never know. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's everywhere, It's been everywhere. And weirdly, Chuck, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>that old, actually, which I guess isn't that we I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's actually weird that it's older than I thought

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<v Speaker 1>it was. How about that? Okay, all right, let's get

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<v Speaker 1>into it.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get into it. Because it didn't start out when

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<v Speaker 2>the gentleman who created it, one Gerald Holtom. He didn't say, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a peace sign everybody. He was a British artist,

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<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't have said it like that anyway, he would

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<v Speaker 2>have had an accent. And he was an activist, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was a conscientious objector of World War two. And

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<v Speaker 2>it was a time in the nineteen fifties when he

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<v Speaker 2>was doodling around when people were worried. This is post

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<v Speaker 2>World War two, and the US dropped two atomic bombs

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<v Speaker 2>on Japan, and the you know, sort of peace micks

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<v Speaker 2>of the world where like, hey, this cannot stand man,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't want anyone to do this ever again. And

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<v Speaker 2>so some groups started forming to try and counter that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, specifically, there was a group called the Direct Action

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<v Speaker 1>Committee against Nuclear War, a group of pacifists. At the time,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the late fifties, this is pre hippie, but

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<v Speaker 1>these people definitely prefigured the Hippies who were soon to come.

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<v Speaker 1>But they were legitimately worried about a world where not

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<v Speaker 1>just one but two and then now three at the

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<v Speaker 1>time nations had nuclear weapons that they were stockpiling, and

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<v Speaker 1>they ended up co founding with some other groups, the

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<v Speaker 1>Campaigned for Nuclear Disarmament that just basically said let's just

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<v Speaker 1>get rid of these things. It was. You thought it

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<v Speaker 1>was a good idea, you tried it, it turned out

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<v Speaker 1>to be a horrific idea. Let's stop doubling and tripling

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<v Speaker 1>and quadrupling down on this and let's just get rid

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<v Speaker 1>of them altogether.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. That's a group that's still around today, which

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty great. And one of the first big things

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<v Speaker 2>they did was organized in march in London from Trafalgar

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<v Speaker 2>Square about fifty two miles or in this case eighty

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<v Speaker 2>three clicks away to Aldermiston where they had a facility

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<v Speaker 2>that was producing nuclear material, and Holtam said, you know what, everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>we need a logo.

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<v Speaker 1>They did. I guess he probably sounded a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>like that, like the Sheriff of Nottingham.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's very kind of you.

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<v Speaker 1>So he came up with this this peace sign for

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<v Speaker 1>the event for that march, and I've seen two different

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<v Speaker 1>competing explanations of that design, and I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>it was just coincidence or what. But he said later

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<v Speaker 1>on in a letter to somebody the artists himself, David

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<v Speaker 1>or Gerald Holton, said that it was meant to be

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<v Speaker 1>a kind of stylized minimalist version of a person in despair,

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<v Speaker 1>standing there with their arms out to their sides downward,

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<v Speaker 1>in their palms facing out, and he says, like in

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<v Speaker 1>the manner of a Spanish peasant being executed by a

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<v Speaker 1>firing squad, and a Goya painting is a very famous

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<v Speaker 1>Goya painting of a peasant being executed by a French

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<v Speaker 1>firing squad. But he has his hands up in the air,

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<v Speaker 1>he doesn't have them downward. So I don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>Gerald Holton was talking about. The one that makes way

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<v Speaker 1>more sense since he was creating this for the Campaign

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<v Speaker 1>for Nuclear Disarmament. It was actually also called the CND

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<v Speaker 1>logo that it was Actually it's it's a semaphore. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a combination of semaphores. That' SAM for N and D.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, And a semaphore is a is basically an

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<v Speaker 2>alphabet that you use flags. And this is before you

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<v Speaker 2>could communicate via you know, short short distance radio. Like

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<v Speaker 2>you see people out on the tarmac. They're waving those

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<v Speaker 2>flags around and they're not just saying like over here,

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<v Speaker 2>over there, you can actually spell things out.

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<v Speaker 1>By over there. That's exactly right.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, but that's what they're doing. It's it's a

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<v Speaker 2>it's a way of communicating over a long range where

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<v Speaker 2>you can't hear somebody.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So the the N, which for nuclear is two

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<v Speaker 1>lines that basically come apart at a forty five degree

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<v Speaker 1>angle away from the guy holding or the person holding

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<v Speaker 1>the semaphores right right, So they're standing there straight as

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<v Speaker 1>an arrow with their arms out to their sides downward

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<v Speaker 1>holding the flags. That's N. You're spelling an N if

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<v Speaker 1>you do that right. If you want to do a D,

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<v Speaker 1>you hold one flag straight up in the air, one

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<v Speaker 1>flag down, maybe throw your head back all a flashdance

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<v Speaker 1>just for a little extra touch, and you're spelling a

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<v Speaker 1>D for disarmament. So if you put that in a circle,

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<v Speaker 1>but you have friends, is the peace sign aka the

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<v Speaker 1>Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament logo.

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<v Speaker 2>And that could be coincidence? Is that what we're saying here.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not possible, it's coincidence.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So what are you saying then? That Holt them

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<v Speaker 2>was just.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if he was misquoted, if he'd forgotten.

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<v Speaker 1>I just don't understand the Goya thing because it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>even show up in a Goya painting.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I just looked up the paint. He's definitely got

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<v Speaker 2>his arms up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's no mistaking it. I mean maybe if you

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<v Speaker 1>turned him upside down, but no.

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<v Speaker 2>So the they made these badges out of white clay

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<v Speaker 2>that they had baked, and the message was basically, if

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<v Speaker 2>there was a nuclear war, these badges would be one

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<v Speaker 2>of the few things left behind that would survive. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>that's fine, But the symbol I think was enough. It

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<v Speaker 2>was very simple, it was very easy to reproduce, and

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<v Speaker 2>very key. Before he take the break, we will mention

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<v Speaker 2>that Holtam did not copyright this thing because he wanted

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<v Speaker 2>it spread far and wide, and that's exactly what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I was going to suggest we left it as

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<v Speaker 1>a cliffhanger whether he copyrighted it or not, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think you made the right decision.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, then let's say this. Did he copyright it,

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<v Speaker 2>Let's find out after the breakup.

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<v Speaker 1>So we said that these pacifists that were into nuclear

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<v Speaker 1>disarmament in the late fifties prefigured the hippies, and they

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<v Speaker 1>definitely didn't. What's interesting is the peace symbol is a

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<v Speaker 1>direct connection between those two groups. Because oh, we didn't

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<v Speaker 1>say Gerald Wholsome did not copyright his creation. It was

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<v Speaker 1>free for anybody to use, and he did that on purpose.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a very deliberate thing for him to do,

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<v Speaker 1>because at first he was spreading this message for nuclear disarmament,

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<v Speaker 1>but as the hippies kind of adopted it and took

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<v Speaker 1>on more and more other stuff that they wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>see changed for the better, the peace I kind of

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<v Speaker 1>morphed and evolved from a symbol that everybody recognize meaning

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<v Speaker 1>nuclear it's or meant to one that meant just peace

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<v Speaker 1>in general, a whole catch all is what it became expanded.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>And like we said many times already, he didn't copyright

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<v Speaker 2>this thing, so it was very easy to distribute without

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<v Speaker 2>having to worry about, you know, fear of legal repercussions

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<v Speaker 2>or paying somebody for its for its use. So all

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden it was, you know, it was all

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<v Speaker 2>over the place and just became ubiquitous and tied to

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<v Speaker 2>this idea of peace, which you know, peace and anti

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear war is not the biggest leap, but it was

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<v Speaker 2>definitely not the peace sign until Vietnam came around.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's also kind of expanded to be a symbol

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<v Speaker 1>for the struggle to be recognized and treated equally like

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<v Speaker 1>women's rights movements, environmental movements, the apartheid anti apartheid movement

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<v Speaker 1>all adopted the peace symbol. The ruling part of South

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<v Speaker 1>Africa tried to ban it in fact, yeah, and that

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<v Speaker 1>did not take And Gerald Holton, for his part, he

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<v Speaker 1>wanted the peace symbol on his headstone and he didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get it. I don't know why I just spoiled that,

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<v Speaker 1>but it seems weird to me. Like if you say

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<v Speaker 1>I want something on this on my headstone, there are

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<v Speaker 1>very few cases where I think people should be like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not going to put that headstone. But he wanted

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<v Speaker 1>an inverted peace symbol in the in the manner of

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<v Speaker 1>Agoya peasant being executed exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>He was like, instead of hands down, it should be up,

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<v Speaker 2>like symbolizing growth and like a you know, the tree

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<v Speaker 2>of life where mankind lives. And I guess whoever was

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<v Speaker 2>in charge of his funeral said.

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<v Speaker 1>Nah, right, I'm sick of that stupid symbol.

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<v Speaker 2>Very strange.

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<v Speaker 1>There's one other thing we got to throw in, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's the Mercedes Ben's logo.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, you can't go to Atlanta Falk's football

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<v Speaker 2>game without seeing that peace sign there on the stadium. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd kind of wondered about this, but obviously I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>put too much thought into it because I knew that

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<v Speaker 2>the Mercedes Benz company had been around long before the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifties, and that was the case.

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<v Speaker 1>It was first, it was it was actually the Daimler

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<v Speaker 1>brothers adopted it as a logo. They adapted it from

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<v Speaker 1>a postcard their father had sent them, and their home

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<v Speaker 1>had been marked on the postcard with a three pointed

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<v Speaker 1>blue star. They're like, let's make that our logo, which

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<v Speaker 1>is sweet and wholesome until you realize what the three

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<v Speaker 1>points of the star stand for the company's dominance of

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<v Speaker 1>products for use on land, see and air, which is

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<v Speaker 1>not exactly peace symbolish, so it's not at all related.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, Chuck said, that's right. I'm out of stuff

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about, so short stuff's out. Stuff you should

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<v Speaker 1>know is a production of iHeartRadio.

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