WEBVTT - Video Games II 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.040 Ephemeral is a production of My Heart three D audio 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:15.720 for fell exposure. Listen What's that phones. On the last 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.640 episode of Ephemeral, we traced the dynamic history of video games, 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.200 starting with arcades. We looked at how games like Pong 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:28.520 and Donkey Kong changed the entertainment industry forever and eventually 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.880 how those games left the arcades and landed in the 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:36.640 homes of consumers across the globe. Here, our producer Max 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:41.640 Williams picks up the story. In the nineteen eighties, home 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:47.360 consoles like the Supernintendo and the Atari revolutionize the gaming market, 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.840 and in the late eighties and early nineties the competition 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:55.840 between these companies starting to heat up. In nineteen Sega 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.640 released their mega hit console, the Sega Genesis. The Genesis 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:05.200 has blast processing. Super Nintendo doesn't. So what's blast processing do? 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.480 And here's where it gets narrowed, because now all of 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.679 a sudden to we have a really competitive console. You 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.560 still had a Tori bumbling along. They had a thing 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:27.319 called the Jaguar, which they maintained was the first sixty 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.120 four bit system and it never got off the ground. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.720 And then there was the three D O which was 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:39.440 too expensive. This is video games writer Steven L. Kent, 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.199 who we talked to in the last episode. Neo Geo 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:50.080 had a home console that wasn't really competitive. Stephen says 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.760 that Nintendo, the biggest player in the game's market, responded 0:01:53.800 --> 0:02:02.720 to the Second Genesis by releasing the Nintendo sixty. So 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:07.320 by the time that the n s D four comes out, now, 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.400 all of a sudden, people think it's gonna be Sega 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.200 versus Nintendo, especially because Sega has this arcade game out 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.919 right now called Virtual Fighter, and all of a sudden, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.480 they're gonna be a lot more competitive in Japan with 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:26.240 Virtual Fighter than they had been the past. But no 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.120 one predicted that the next giant to enter the arena 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:34.320 would be Sony and their consul, the Sony PlayStation. And 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.360 I don't think that people realized how serious Sony was. 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.800 Sony had this Midas touch. They ruled the TV market. 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.880 Tony Trinitron has Sony is exclusive one Gun Picture two 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:51.880 for the ultimate in brightness, sharpness, contrast, and color. He's 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:57.639 a very red the dazzling array of colors Sony Trinitron 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.800 Picture Perfect. They rule the stereo market. I don't know 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.120 a tweeter from a Wolfer from a Twitter. So I 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.200 bought the Sony Compact Stereo. So on the one hand, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.000 that makes them formidable. But on the other hand, maybe 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.679 they're not gonna be so committed. If things don't work out, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.399 they'll just go their merry way and make a new 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:26.280 Walkman instead. The Sony Walkman is that tiny stereocassette player 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:35.000 with truly incredible sound. Put on a Walkman and see 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.680 the world in a whole new light, the Walkman from Sony. 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.839 The one and only executives of thing I could see 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.320 that the writing on the wall, they'd seen enough from 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.800 Sony to realize Sony had quite an offering after all. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.800 So in the United States they compounded the problem by 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.040 rushing to market. It was supposed to come out on 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:02.200 September two, Sega Saturday and Saturday September two, then instead 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.320 they released it as a surprise and E three in May, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.119 making every possible mistake you could make. First of all, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.480 they released it a few selected retailers, which meant that 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.600 if your toys r US you got something to sell. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.200 But if you're kV Toys, which actually had more stores, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.880 you didn't get in and you were passed. Some retailers 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.880 responded by throwing Sega out of their stores. The next 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.880 thing is only in five games, but the packings were wonderful. 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.360 Virtual Fighter Too was fabulous when it came out in Japan, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:40.120 it was a huge seller. Then Sony came out with PlayStation. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:42.839 It did much better than people thought, but didn't so 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.800 as well as the Saturn. But then it came to 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.560 the United States and people were wild about it, and 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.120 sixty four wouldn't come out for another year. And by 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.479 the time end sixty four did, PlayStation was on such 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.039 a trajectory that no one else would kept up to it. 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:06.280 So what made the Sony PlayStation so special? The first 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:11.200 PlayStation was brilliantly designed. Sony gave you a hundred thousand 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:16.159 colleagons per second. Nintendo trying to compete by giving you 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.400 more textures. But if you looked at games on the PlayStation, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.000 they looked better. Games on and sixty four looked like 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.400 they were inflated toys. They had that rounded, sort of 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:33.200 puffy look. The PlayStation also made a smart business move 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.960 in terms of its format. It was the first major 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:41.359 console to use disks rather than cartridges. That was a 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:47.200 really good thing for the consumer. Because cartridges are very 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:51.239 expensive to make. You have to actually build wrong memory 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.800 into them. Instead of a disc. You had chips inside 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:59.400 those cartridges. That's expensive, but it wasn't just a question cheaper. 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.919 You could fit so much on a single CD, and 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.640 if one c D for any reason wasn't big enough, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.200 you can put a second CD in the package for 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:13.560 next to nothing. So all of a sudden games are huge. 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:19.279 You get this huge breakup where Nintendo's constant partner in 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:25.040 RPG games, Squaresft, looks at what Sony is offering and says, hey, guys, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.040 it's been nice, but Final Fantasy seven is going to 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:34.480 come out on the PlayStation. An evil empire is sucking 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:40.279 the light source from the planet, destroying all that's gettings packed. 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.400 It's the one soul sort of fortune to save the world. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:51.480 If he succeeds, you survive. If he fails, you can 0:06:51.640 --> 0:07:01.680 always hit the reset buttons. Final Fantasy seven. So Nintendo 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.040 found themselves in an interesting situation. They had over nine 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.440 of the market with ANYS and then they were down 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.320 to about on the market with this Nest. Then all 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.800 of a sudden, PlayStation comes out and there are thirty 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:22.080 percent of the market But Sony's path to domination didn't 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.480 stop there. In two thousand, Sony released their follow up console, 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:31.200 the PlayStation two, which to this day is the top 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:36.480 selling console of all time. PlayStation two came out, and 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.080 on the one hand, Sony had become very arrogent. The 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.440 line I always get to kick out of was that 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.560 they called the graphics processor the emotion engine on and 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.600 somebody once quipped that the only emotion I ever got 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:53.800 out of it was despair. It was hard to program. 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:59.840 But Sony took the entire PlayStation one architecture, transferred it 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.480 to a single chip and threw it into the PlayStation 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.480 two for good measure, and it played DVDs. That one 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:12.200 little box, That two box was a PlayStation DVD player 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.080 and a PlayStation two all in one. You can argue 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.000 that they were harsh on their development partners, but they 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:26.000 were generous to the consumer. As it turns out, Sony 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.960 would desperately need the profits from their PlayStation consoles. That's 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.880 because there are other products weren't doing so well. All 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.280 of a sudden, Samsung and LG come out with great 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.760 TVs for half the price of Sony's, and Sony no 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:47.920 longer owns the TV market, Sony Ericsson telephones disappeared, Nicon 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:52.320 and Cannon started coming up with cameras, and Sony lost 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.960 the digital camera market, and all of a sudden, PlayStation 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.880 two as a guts and because it's the only thing 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:03.720 that's keeping Sony alive, PlayStation's iron grip over the video 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:09.640 games industry changed everything. Many console developers like Sega and Atari, 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:14.280 face layoffs, reduced output, or quit the console market altogether, 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:19.400 until eventually Nintendo was Sony's only real competitor. That is, 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.120 until one more tech company decided to try their hand 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:28.400 at video games. Microsoft. They released their first console, the Xbox, 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.280 in two thousand and one, but it didn't go over 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.840 so well in countries outside the US. The original Xbox 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.480 was a dreadful idea for Japan. A lot of people 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.480 attacked Japan and say, well, Xbox never had a chance 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.559 because it was American and Japan would let it catch on. 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.120 There's some reasons to feel that way, but looking at 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.800 everything from the other perspective, it was way too big. 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:59.040 There were Japanese washer dryer towers where the footprint on 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.800 the ground is about maybe a third bigger, maybe a 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.520 half bigger than that Xbox, but Drink on the ground 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.520 didn't have a lot of Japanese game scored, whereas Sony 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:13.400 had a huge library of Japanese exclusives, and Nintendo, of 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.520 course was Nintendo. And then there was the name too. 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.640 I never realized. It's been a friend of mine. Ryan 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.600 Payton pointed out to me that here in the United 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.880 States we say X marks the spot, and that's a 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.439 good thing, but in Japan, X is actually kind of 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:32.559 a negative. So the Xbox was sort of this negative box. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.559 It's the box not to have. They came nowhere near 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:42.000 a million units, but Microsoft was self aware about the 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:45.280 shortcomings of the Xbox, so when they released the Xbox 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.320 three sixty in two thousand and five, they overhauled their 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:53.480 marketing strategy. The next x Box up would sell over 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.160 a million, which is still paltry compared to the other Xboxes, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.680 but boy the effort and the elligence of Microsoft put 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.959 into doubling their sales. They went into Japanese homes and 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:12.000 talk to people. They worked wildly to attract good game designers, 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:17.320 and they made a big budget in the Japanese market. Meanwhile, 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.800 Nintendo struggled to stay relevant during the early two thousand's. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.160 They released the Nintendo GameCube in two thousand and one, 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.200 which sold less units in the Xbox. The GameCube never 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.960 grew to account more than of the total games market. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.400 On the one hand, you look at GameCube and you say, wow, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.200 you know, so sorry to seem Intend to go away down. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:42.920 But then they turned around and come out with the 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.679 Wi Next, which isn't a game system for gamers. It's 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.760 a game system for gamers grandmothers. But I'll be the 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:56.000 arnest they didn't recapture the market with the Wei. Nintendo 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.280 successfully diversified the world of video gaming. They created an 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:04.040 interactive experience unlike anything before it, and it was the 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.800 first console to be fully accessible to a wider, more 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.440 family oriented audience, and it was a huge success, selling 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.640 over a hundred million units and putting Nintendo back on 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.360 the map. Stephen says that the game's industry learned a 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.360 lot from Nintendo success. The more accessible games were, the 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.640 more they would sell, and this sparked a new revolution 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.120 the cross gaming. So the accessibility of video games is 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.120 they've become ubiquitous. It used to be that you went 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:39.160 to the arcades or if you had two hundred dollars 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.280 a time when two hundred dollars was really five hundred dollars. 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.080 You bought an Atari and it wasn't as good, but 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.720 you bought it. Now you can play the best arcade 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.320 games from the eighties on your cell phone. Everyone's dat 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.360 a cellphone because of go pay your coin as philosophy 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.880 of using old technologies. Nintendo keeps the price on their 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.959 console is pretty achieved. But on top of that, if 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.800 you can't afford an Xbox Series X, guess what you 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:11.480 can probably affordy used three sixty. There was a time 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.520 when the game companies were saying, yeah, you know, we're 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.720 gonna get twenty billion dollars this year in sales, more 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.040 bigger than Hollywood. Now they're getting closer to a hundred 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.200 billion dollars in sales, and they're bigger than Hollywood plus 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:33.120 professional sports plus the music industry combined. So what's next 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.640 for gaming? One of the big trends right now is 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.640 virtual reality. But I will tell you that virtual reality 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.400 really scares me. I was talking with someone recently who 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.760 was telling me that he used to get so motion 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.320 sick playing virtual reality games, but now he doesn't anymore. 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.240 And he was happy about that until I pointed out 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.640 that your brain physically remaps itself based on the stimulus 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.480 you get it, which meant that his brain had remapped 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.640 itself to accommodate v R. There's been a lot of 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.360 research don on v ART and the effects it has 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.760 on our brains, but not all of it has been released, 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:18.439 and I wonder about that. I'm nervous about what VR 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.680 will do in the long run. But one of the 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.680 more exciting advancements to think about is how visuals continue 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.680 to improve. As Stephen points out, graphics have come a 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:34.160 long way from early video games. I remember looking at 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.440 ghosts and goblins on the NYES and training to my 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.440 mom and saying, you know, that's good artwork. My mom 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.360 is looking at and going, really, you think so? Sony 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:52.560 was so good, uh presentation. Nintendo was so good at presentation. Frankly, 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:57.120 if you saw the first FIFA soccer on the three 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:02.000 do that was the game that turned sports games from 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.480 being flat guys on a flat field taking a flat 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:10.360 ball into having ambiance. The stadiums are there, and the 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.120 stadium is part of the game. One of the things 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.560 I love about video games. I've always loved about video games, 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:18.880 and I don't think I'm alone in this is that 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.720 video games can take you someplace you wouldn't want to 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.800 be in real life. You can be a guy challenging 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.760 the Greek and now I believe, the Nordica. You can 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.640 be in a haunted house being chased by machine gun 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.800 toning zombies. Whatever you want. They'll take you into these 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.840 places that you wouldn't want to be in in real life, 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.200 or places that you couldn't qualify for for real life. 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.520 You can beat the Williams sisters in tennis. If you're 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.560 good enough on the tennis games, you can fight brock Lester. 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.800 These are things that in real life are not possible, 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.440 and video games have gotten so good at presenting them 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.800 in a way that you look at it and you 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.080 think it's got to be real, or it's almost real. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.840 But here's the caveat. In literature, there's a term called 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:10.520 the suspension of disbelief. I would argue that they achieved 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.840 the suspension of disbelief in video games. Even back in 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.560 the eighth bit era, where you were running Mario across 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:22.080 polka dotted mushrooms, I gotta tell you I got acrophobic 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.760 playing that game when Mario fell off a mushroom or 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.760 a platform, I felt like I was dropping off the 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:34.600 face of the world. They've been good at gain people 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.360 to suspend their disbelief with lesser graphics. It gets harder 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:42.520 now because once you're spoiled with what exists today, if 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.080 you've got a PS five or an Xbox Series X, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.280 it's hard to go back. You can pick up a 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.640 game boy and still get lost in Tetris easily, but 0:16:53.760 --> 0:17:02.840 some of the other things aren't so easy. With the 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.040 latest consoles, the PlayStation five and the Xbox Series X 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.280 games are now closer than ever to looking lifelike. After 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.040 a quick break, we're going to sit down with familiar 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.720 I Heart Podcast voices who also happened to be avid gamers, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.399 and we'll discuss what we are most excited about for 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:28.840 the future of gaming. It's no secret that we have 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.200 a big group of gamer nerds on the I Heart 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.520 podcast team. A few weeks ago, we decided to chat 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.680 with a few of them about our best gaming memories. Hi. 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.280 I'm Trevor Young. I am a producer on Ephemeral, and 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.720 I'm very excited to talk about video games. Hi. I'm 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.800 Annie Reese Um. I'm a podcast host for the show's 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.800 stuff I've never told you and savor and I am 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.520 also very very excited to talk about video games. This 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.560 is Matt Frederick. I'm an executive producer on Ephemeral. Officially, 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.760 I'm also a host of stuff they don't want you 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.320 to know. And Hi, I am Max Williams. I am 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.399 a producer here on Ephemeral, And yeah, I love video games. 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.080 So one of my first questions I had for the 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.960 group to kick it off is a pretty obvious one, 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.120 but it's just kind of what your first video game 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.600 memory was, like, what your first system and game was. 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.080 I'll start by saying, I'm pretty sure mine was getting 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.920 like the bray Chunky game Boy, like the original Game 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.199 Boy was I think the very first video game system 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.840 I played. And I either played Tetris on it for 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:37.600 the first time, or I played Pokemon like blue or 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.480 Red version, which would have been around like nine. I 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:48.760 guess wow. Yeah, Indeed, one of my first video game 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.639 memories is I have an older brother and it was 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.480 kind of through him that I got introduced to video 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.199 game So I was probably four years old, and I 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:58.480 remember him playing. Like, my early memories get all mixed up, 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:02.560 but I remember pretty clearly Turtles in Time Supernintendo version, 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:04.560 and then he had like an X Men game that 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.040 I really liked because the animation was storm. I thought 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.760 that was so cool. I think that's also Supernintendo. But 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.960 we did have like a original Nintendo and I remember 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.879 him playing I believe it was a Zelda game and 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.360 also Mario in there. But by like early memories are 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.959 of watching him play it, and it was kind of 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.959 his domain at first, But then I I moved up 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:28.440 in the world and started to play myself, so I'm 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.000 I'm a little bit older. Uh Now I only know 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.200 this first one because I have video footage of myself 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.480 and my father playing it. But it was a Mattel 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.960 in television and it's had this controller that had a 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.920 little circular metal thing that you used. It was very strange. 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.399 It was a horse racing game where you don't really 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.679 play the game, you just bet on which horse is 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:57.639 gonna win. Less is a video game more like an 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:02.080 interactive movie, very similar. Really, my first real memories are 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:06.600 of an original Nintendo entertainment system playing weird games like 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.200 Kung Fu and Solstice. Yeah. I think my first video 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.520 game memory was actually on the computer. I remember being 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.080 a kid, and my parents were like, you guys can 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.520 play video games, but they have to be educational. So 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:21.720 it was a lot of like h G Games I 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:23.880 believe was the company. It was like pot Putt Goes 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.720 to the Moon and stuff. I think my first gaming 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.840 system was similar to yours, Trevor. I remember having like 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.159 the blocky gray game Boy, and Heven. I think I 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.320 had Pokemon Blue and Ox had Pokemon Red because I 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.480 was always like red schooler, I want Red being the 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.119 annoying little brother that I am. Yeah, what Matt was 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.480 saying reminded me that like there was a whole era 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.960 of like at home video game playing that like wasn't 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.200 like proper consoles. It was like these like little boxes 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.080 that would have like one or two random like kind 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:52.639 of things on them that you could plug into your 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:56.359 TV and like go. But it was really just like 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.560 one or two things. It wasn't like a proper game console, 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.720 a cartridges or anything like that. Um, it was that 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.440 kind of what that was, Matt uh the in television, 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:09.040 I believe it had console, It had cartridges, very similar 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.120 to like a cole Eco Vision that was like the 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.320 other one that came out very early that I remember 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:16.400 I never had an Atari, which was like the first 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.200 system that had the cartridges you're speaking of. But yeah, 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.880 I I don't know, man, there's something so amazing about 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:28.000 a physical thing that you just plug in, especially with 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.239 the sound of it plugging in. I don't know when 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.680 you're thinking about ephemeral things. You know, we don't even 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.560 have discs anymore. You just download your games. But like 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.760 getting ahold of that sucker uh and just that feeling, 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:45.200 especially in the old nintendos. Man, Oh, it's great, which 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.760 made the the experience of like a blockbuster or video 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.680 game rental place all that more important and exciting. Yes, 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.440 I mean, on that note, like where where did you 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.680 all like get your games from? Do you remember Christmas? 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.480 If I got a game, it was Christmas. If I 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:05.119 picked one up, it was a local video game store probably, 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.520 which was probably a blockbuster. Yeah. Um, I, like I 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:10.959 said about, my brothers were the ones that usually got 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.879 the video games. And it actually caused some tension later 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.000 because I bought like the console, but they had all 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:18.959 the games. So when we went our separate ways, you 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:23.240 know who gets what? I claimed the PlayStation two because 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.160 I fixed it with my own my own hands and screwdrivers. 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:29.440 So that's fine. I still have it. So I don't 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.600 think I started. We did get a lot of games 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.440 um from Blockbuster. We rented a lot, especially for Sega. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:40.040 But I started buying once I got older. It's around 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:43.119 PlayStation two era. I started buying my own games. Uh. 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:44.920 And I once did a really annoying thing where I 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.320 showed up with like just my allowance money, so it 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.359 was like quarters and stuff paid for this game. The 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:54.920 guy was so mad at me, but that's how. That's 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:56.560 how I had my money. I didn't know what to do, 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:58.960 you know. I was actually just digging through some like 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.080 I have a bunch of video stuff, like old stuff, 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.679 and I found this copy of a paper Mario for 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:06.840 the N sixty four nice and right here on the 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.879 top it says property a block button. Because it was like, 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:12.639 you know, you you can rent the games, but you 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:14.000 can also pay. I don't know, like what was that 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.840 twenty bucks to buy the use game. I feel like 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:18.680 there had to have been another place, but I don't 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:20.320 remember going to a game stop or anything like that 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:22.400 back then, or even if game stop was a thing yet. 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.480 So yeah, I think just like blockbust, starties rented games 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:27.320 and after a certain amount of times if I rented it, 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:29.679 my parents were like, Okay, we're just gonna buy this 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:32.000 because we're still of paying you know, the nine dollars 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:33.520 or whatever it is to rent it for the weekend. 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:38.560 So my recollection is going to It was first called 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:41.840 Electronics Boutique and then it became e B Games, and 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:45.240 I'm pretty sure that got merged into game Stop. I 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.240 could be wrong about that, but yeah, the first I remember, 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:50.879 the first game store I went to was like E 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:53.600 B Games and that's where I would get like my 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.720 N sixty four games and sn E S games and 0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:59.199 stuff like that. Uh. And I'm pretty sure that was 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.080 like before games off existed. But the mall would have them, 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:06.040 y'all just stores at the mall, just have them, right, Yeah, 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.240 it was the whole thing. There was a I lived 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:10.640 in a small town and there was a a mall, 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:13.000 like a thirty minute drive away. It's a big deal. 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:14.760 You go to E V Games and you're like, ah, 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:18.000 this is heaven and it was big exciting dude. Well, 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:20.560 and you had the arcade there too. Generally not at 0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:22.840 all malls, but if it was a good mall, it 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.680 had an arcade and you know, if you're a kid. 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:28.159 I don't know if you guys had this experience, but 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:30.919 you get you get some quarters and your family just 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:33.399 let you go to the arcade for a little while. 0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:35.960 I can't remember if my parents would leave me there, 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:39.280 but I know that once I entered the arcade, nobody 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:44.880 was there but me and the consoles, and uh, it's 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:47.439 just amazing. Yeah, let's tuck our kades for a second. 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:50.399 So two questions, Matt, maybe you can answer. Do you 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:52.760 remember the name of the arcade you went to and 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:55.320 you remember what games you played on it? Oh? Man, 0:24:56.760 --> 0:24:59.520 it was in Clearwater, Florida, when I would go visit 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:04.040 my grand parents. I remember that one, just really specifically 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:05.960 in my head. It was just a small mall that 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:10.000 was a short drive from their house, and I remember 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:13.000 that one. And I remember the arcade at the roller rink, 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:15.760 which was just a couple of games set up kind 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:21.800 of on the periphery of the rink. But I remember playing, uh, 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:24.840 like a couple of ninja based games there for the 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:28.679 first time ever. Let ninja gating, Like man, I just 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:31.119 I have very clear memory of it happening, but I 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.119 can't I can't tell you the details I went to 0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:36.679 a time out. It was called time Out and it 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:41.320 was an arcade in Gainesville, Georgia, which again I grew 0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:42.840 up in a small town that was just like outing. 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:44.960 If you're gonna go that way, it's a whole day. 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:46.560 But my parents would drop us off and just leave 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:49.560 us there. And I loved there's a zombie game. I 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:53.239 really loved a Star Wars game. I really loved a 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:57.080 dinosaur one and a Hotted House one. Oh I love 0:25:57.160 --> 0:25:58.960 those are like the kind of point and shoot ones. 0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:01.000 But I was also really good at commachine. I was 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:05.040 like so good they banned me from like no more 0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:08.040 no where you're cheating. Yeah, I mean I don't really 0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:10.840 have them any like distinct memories of like I guess 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:12.800 arcades when I was younger. Oddly enough, when I was 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:15.359 like nineteen, I actually end up working at it like 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:18.360 an arcade like place for about six months. But there 0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:20.360 was like this one place called like Startime or something 0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:22.960 with that. It's like like the suburbs nor like north 0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:26.399 of Atlanta and Olex and I would go to that 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:27.960 and we just play House to the Dead like the 0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:30.480 entire day, just like keep hitting, like you know, continue 0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:32.480 putting the more money and stuff, and by that point 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:35.679 it wasn't like tokens or chips. It was like the card. 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:38.600 But yeah, I would say most of my memories are 0:26:38.640 --> 0:26:41.280 like when I was like nineteen, I actually worked at 0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:43.399 like it was kind of like a Chucky Cheese, independently 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:47.200 owned type place, and I was a technician, which meant 0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:48.399 it's like, you know, if a bunch of kids just 0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:51.800 shove coins into the wrong machine, um, I would take 0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:54.600 it offline on jam the coins. But I remember they 0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:56.639 had like a misspac Man there, and they had like 0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:59.760 I think a Space Invaders there, And unfortunately I was 0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:02.840 still like too young to appreciate how awesome it was 0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:06.760 having those like really retro awesome machines. But I don't know, 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:08.440 I feel like by the time I got really into gaming, 0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:13.119 like arcades were already you know, pretty phased out. Bless 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:16.439 you for doing that work, sir. Pinball. Does everybody have 0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:20.600 pinball memories? Does anyone have pinball memories? Yeah? Little, I 0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:23.080 feel like pinball was at the arcades I would go to, 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:25.800 but like that was the only context that I would 0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:29.520 find it. Early was like in arcades, um, there just 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:31.639 be usually like a corner or a wall of the 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:35.280 arcade where they were pinballs, and my favorite ones are 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:38.080 always the ones connected to movies. You know that I knew, 0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:40.640 like the Star Wars one or the Indiana Jones one 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:45.360 or something like that. Well, just as a personal connection 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:47.920 for me, and I wonder how this connects with you guys, 0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:51.800 like the experience of playing a video game of any kind, 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:54.120 including a pinball game, which isn't really a video game, 0:27:54.600 --> 0:27:57.240 you know, it's more integrated with video graphics and stuff 0:27:57.320 --> 0:28:00.440 later on, but it's associated for me with it because 0:28:00.440 --> 0:28:02.680 of the location, as you're saying to over the arcade, 0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:06.320 I have clear memories of my father and I playing 0:28:06.720 --> 0:28:08.720 and the joy that I would get when my dad 0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:12.239 and I would like compete on a pinball machine, and 0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:15.360 then that translated later on to us competing in other 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:18.080 like console games at the house, which is just this 0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:21.399 clear through line that I've got with my connection to 0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:23.440 my son now with video games. So I'll just I'll 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.600 bring that back up later. No, that's great, Um, that 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:28.439 reminds me. You know, I think I have a somewhat 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:32.400 similar story where most of my arcade time was spent 0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:35.200 at a place in Dallas, Texas called Nickel Rama. Because 0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:39.560 everything was in Nickel and Dallas is where my dad 0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:41.840 and step mom lived, and so I would go visit 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:45.120 them there. I didn't live in Dallas, and my dad 0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:47.240 was always working, so I never really got to hang 0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:49.000 out with him when I visited, weirdly, so I would 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:51.200 like spend most of that time with my step mom, 0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:53.520 And that was just kind of our thing we did 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:55.479 when I would visit, like pretty much like every day 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:58.080 when I would visit, or like whatever weekends I would go, 0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:01.760 we'd go to the Nicole Rama And that's like really 0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:03.840 how my stepmom and I like got to bond and 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.120 know each other growing up when I was a kid. 0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:09.200 So we'd um, you know, go to the like two 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:12.800 player you know, like fighting games like Moral Kombat or 0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:14.680 whatever it was, or like the Simpsons game where you 0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:18.360 work together and like kind of go across the map 0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:22.320 shooting weird guys popping out of trash cans. Like like 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:23.840 that was just our thing. Like that was me and 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:27.120 my stepmom saying so, uh, you know, she's one of 0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:29.480 my favorite people in the world, and I don't think 0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:32.880 we would be as close without that arcade. Without Nicole Rama, 0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:36.120 I had a friend who had a pinball she had 0:29:36.480 --> 0:29:39.120 some pinball machines at her house because her dad really 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:41.800 loved pinball machines, and it was the coolest. It was 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:45.320 so cool. I was always very very excited to go 0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:47.840 and visit her. And I think that's another when I 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:49.920 think of video games, there's that kind of element when 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:52.520 you're a kid where you get jealous of who has 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:54.760 what game and what console and you're gonna go. I 0:29:54.760 --> 0:29:56.760 was gonna go to her house and play pinball, you know, 0:29:56.880 --> 0:30:00.600 like having these associations that she also had an Atari 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:02.320 and I didn't have an Atari. I had a Sega, 0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:05.440 so we got to mix it up. Sometimes. I was 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:07.400 always really jealous when my friends were like better very 0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:09.560 like certain games than me, you know, like I was 0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:11.720 always really bad at Super Smash on the N sixty 0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:14.360 four growing up, Like I just couldn't figure it out. 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:15.800 I don't know if it was a controller. I'm much 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:18.280 better at it now, but yeah, just like drive Me 0:30:18.400 --> 0:30:20.320 drove me nuts that I was like always like last 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.200 place on Smash, and I feel like since then, I've 0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.040 devoted my life to like getting better at that game 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:28.080 so I can like not be in last place on 0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:30.480 Brawl or whatever the newest one is now Brawl was on. 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:33.600 We the newest one is like Ultimate. I guess that's 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:37.360 a really interesting, just larger topic to bring up the 0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:41.760 competitiveness angle. You know, video games is really a bonding 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:47.160 thing for friends in many ways, especially in the console era. 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:49.840 You know, my my friends and I would always get 0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:52.440 together and play various games like that. For us, it 0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:55.920 was more like Halo on the original Xbox. My friends 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.560 and would get together all the time and just play Halo, 0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:01.640 and that's all we would do all night, and we 0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:03.240 couldn't wait till the next time we got to do 0:31:03.240 --> 0:31:08.440 it again, which translated later to M m O RPGs 0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:10.440 or you know, the online thing where we could be 0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.280 in our separate places. Once we went off to college 0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:16.080 and everything, we're still playing together. We were just separated. 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:20.200 That's what I find really funny about my gaming now 0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:22.440 at this point in my life. So, like, you know, 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:24.640 I had a lot of friends who were really into gaming, 0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:26.920 really competitive. I would play with them. I was usually 0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:28.280 like one of the worst out of them. But I 0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:30.680 say about like nineteen twenty, that's when I realized I 0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:33.720 hate playing videogas to other people. I'm a solo gamer 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:36.720 and I've embraced it in my like you know now 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:38.880 going to my thirties. It's like that's why I got 0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:42.080 really into the Assassin's Creed and then Skyram fall Out 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:45.360 all this stuff. I'm like nothing about just like getting 0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:48.800 online and playing with people, even if I know them, 0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:52.600 like really Like it's kind of like my period of 0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:54.440 rest bit away from I mean a lot of this 0:31:54.600 --> 0:31:56.760 might tie into the fact that I was a bartender 0:31:56.760 --> 0:31:59.280 for many years. I was with people all the time, 0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:01.120 and I'll play with people on a cage, but I 0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:04.480 don't really enjoy it. Yeah, I'd second that in a way. Now, 0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:06.680 I think I'm like kind of in between where there 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:08.280 was like a time where I got a lot of 0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:12.360 like communal value out of video games, especially like Matt 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:14.760 was saying in the m m O RPG Hey Day, 0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:17.360 Like when World of Warcraft hit, me and my friends 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:19.520 were all up on World of Warcraft, like that was 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:21.880 like our thing. We didn't even like hang out. There 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:23.200 was like a whole year where we didn't even hang 0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:25.280 out in person because it was so much cooler to 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:28.480 be like in our like respective homes, on our computers, 0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:33.040 talking on our like horrible little like USB Mike. That 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:34.520 was like what we wanted to do. That's how we 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:37.520 wanted to hang out. But at some point over the years, 0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:40.000 like I don't know, like online gaming just started to 0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:42.480 feel more and more like toxic to me. Like I'd 0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:45.600 be on it and people were like really bad. Like 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:48.720 by bad, I mean like I would say horrible things 0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:52.320 and we're like just like really rude and mean, and um, 0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:54.400 you know, a couple of years ago, I got really 0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:57.960 into Overwatch, and so as playing like Overwatch like online 0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:00.920 a lot, and like man like just like the amount 0:33:00.920 --> 0:33:05.560 of like racism and sexism and all horrible things that 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:08.040 I just like and just like abuse, you know, like 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:11.240 people like berating you over like messing up a game 0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:14.680 or something like that. It's just like not not worth 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:18.160 it anymore, totally here you, Trevor. I tried recently to 0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:23.760 use the Oculus to do some online multiplayer gaming, and 0:33:23.800 --> 0:33:26.000 it was a horrible experience for that reason you just 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:30.080 pointed out. And this is my opinion, but this is 0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:33.840 what I think. These are probably a lot of younger 0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.920 people who are playing these games, including Overwatch, all these 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:42.680 games they are developing, They are like testing out some 0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:45.840 of these more the things that they're not supposed to 0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.920 say the things that the way they interact with others, 0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:52.480 and you know, testing out that mean streak because maybe 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:54.840 it's been done to them. And I don't that's not 0:33:54.920 --> 0:33:57.760 the case for every kid, but I think you're you're 0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:01.040 encountering that a ton when you go into an online 0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:04.920 space now with video games with younger people. Again, I 0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:07.720 think they're just they're testing in a lot of ways 0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:10.239 because they're not going to get necessarily in trouble for 0:34:10.320 --> 0:34:13.600 saying those things that are kind of naughty and exciting 0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:17.080 for a kid's mind. Um, and they probably don't even 0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:21.080 understand what they're saying or what it really means. Just 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:25.360 to defend the griefers in the a holes that you'll encounter. Sorry, 0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:28.080 that's not that they need defending. No, I get that. 0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:31.920 I hope it is really that innocent, um, and it 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:35.160 comes from a place of naivete. But sometimes it feels 0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:38.680 like I'm talking to adults who were those kids and 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:41.600 just like never really grew up. You know, now they're 0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:45.080 like in their thirties or something and are still like 0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:48.399 saying horrible things. You know, I don't know, I mean 0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:50.120 that would track right, Yeah, I mean, you've got the 0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:53.600 whole game or gate thing. I'm it's like literally a 0:34:53.640 --> 0:34:58.680 woman getting death threats from adult men because she dared 0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:02.560 to critique a game that they liked. So it's definitely, 0:35:02.640 --> 0:35:07.080 it's extremely it can be very very toxic and very dangerous, 0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:11.080 and unfortunately a lot of like, um, it's getting worse, 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:14.239 Like there's actually been some surveys, some studies recently that 0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:17.120 we're going backwards, like there have been some progress made. 0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:21.640 So I'm very competitive, but I stopped playing online games 0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.920 at twelve because I was getting like harassed, and I've 0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:27.440 just never gone back and it didn't feel like a 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:30.360 a safe space. It is a weird thing for a 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:33.120 twelve year old to be like, oh god, O can't 0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:37.520 I can't be involved in this anymore. It's interesting because I, 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:40.560 like I said, I got introduced to video games to 0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:42.520 my brothers, and I was very competitive. However, it was 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:46.520 always always in my mind viewed as this is a 0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:50.080 more masculine space. So I would play, but only if 0:35:50.080 --> 0:35:53.319 they would let me play. And like I, you all 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:55.880 probably remember this, but I bet some listeners don't. Games 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:58.480 used to only have like one safe space or like 0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:00.920 two maybe, and they so they would go through and 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:03.880 erase all my games, and it was just like a 0:36:04.000 --> 0:36:08.080 huge point of contention. Um so I always felt like 0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:12.080 I wasn't good enough for them, like they were way 0:36:12.120 --> 0:36:15.520 better than I ever could be. But then at the 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:18.440 same time, like my other friends who were girls who 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:21.000 didn't really play video games, thought that like I was 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:25.320 kind of strange because I was a girl playing video games. Uh. 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:31.280 But I did go on to I Want a Super 0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:36.040 Smash Brothers competition in college. I went to a very 0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:40.840 technical school and it was se men and they all 0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:43.520 accused me of cheating and said there's no way she 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:47.520 could have won. It's impossible, like we're shouting in my face. 0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:52.399 So I've never competed ever again. But I did win, 0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:56.239 and I want some money. Whoa congratulations first of all, 0:36:56.280 --> 0:37:02.839 But wow, that sucks. Character? What character ours, marr I mean, 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:06.759 Martha's pretty jacks make. It's wild to me though, you 0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:09.040 have the kind of self awareness as early as twelve 0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:11.280 to be like, you know what this is like toxic? 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:17.120 I don't need this. Yeah, yeah, and it was really toxic. Also, 0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:20.520 I just I prefer storyline based games. I do, like 0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:23.480 I like party games like Mario cart and all that 0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:25.919 kind of stuff. But like I really love a good storyline, 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.600 and so this was it was common for me growing 0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:30.920 up to like I would watch my brothers play and 0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:32.520 my friends would watch me play like it like it's 0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:35.120 a movie or something, and I feel like that not 0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:38.440 a lot of online games are like that. So it 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:41.680 was a couple of reasons, but it's definitely like it 0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:50.120 scared me to play online. What you were saying about 0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:52.960 liking games, I have a story anyways, I'm like totally 0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:55.440 the same way. I think my my favorite game series 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:59.439 are probably like the Final Fantasy series, the Metal Gear 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:03.960 Solids areas things that I like have really like compelling, 0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:08.920 deep storylines to them. Certain Final Fantasy games. That's um 0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:12.040 for debate, but overall, I think like they're all written 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:16.279 pretty well. And um yeah, it's it's been hard for 0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:18.799 me to get into games like Fallout or like a 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:21.000 BioShock or something where you're just kind of like in 0:38:21.080 --> 0:38:23.720 first person the whole time, like kind of exploring these worlds. 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:26.479 That's just like it's fun, it's cool, but like there's 0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:28.560 no like characters to latch onto as much. There's no 0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:31.960 real like plot development. Fallout four, you're kidding me, Yes, 0:38:32.000 --> 0:38:35.200 there is. Get Out of Town. I'm gonna get canceled 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:41.200 for this opinion. My favorite game for PlayStation four is 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:43.680 The Witcher, which is like that you go wherever you want, 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:45.760 to do whatever you want. But then the overall story 0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:50.560 is in my mind so perfect and developed for a 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:54.080 more mature audience. It's it's made for a gamer that's 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:57.480 been playing since you know any Yes, there is that 0:38:57.560 --> 0:38:59.520 you guys are talking about, like you know, there's that spectrum. 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:02.280 So it's like I'm thinking about like Elder s Girls 0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:04.960 five Skyrim, which is like one of my favorites of 0:39:05.000 --> 0:39:09.120 all time, but there's really isn't another character you'd really 0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:12.720 ever latch onto and like that. That's what I've always 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:15.000 felt like one of the big improvements and fall At 0:39:15.000 --> 0:39:18.520 four was it's like, Okay, here are these companions, some 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:20.320 of which when you finished the game, you're gonna have 0:39:20.360 --> 0:39:22.680 to turn on, you're gonna have to kill. It's not perfect, 0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:24.520 but it is a lot better. But I'm really thinking 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.520 about my favorite play through. I'm thinking like Assassin's Creed too, 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:29.680 and then I'm gonna include Brotherhood because that's that's the 0:39:29.719 --> 0:39:34.520 conclusion to that. And that was you know, you had 0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:37.520 a lot of like you know, on the tertiary stuff 0:39:37.560 --> 0:39:40.120 you could control, but it was a straight line storyline. 0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:43.719 You were going to start the game at seventeen years 0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:47.560 old and at the end you're killing the Pope's son. Spoiler. 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:50.000 Anyone has played it yet, and I hadn't dead there yet. 0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:53.799 I was waiting for those switch free Masters. Well, we'll 0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:56.640 think about games like the Legend of Zelda Linked to 0:39:56.680 --> 0:39:59.960 the Past. It came out on Supernintendo, and just how 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:02.279 story forward that game was, even though it was in 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:05.719 action game that you got to fight through tons of 0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:07.799 enemies and you never stopped to have a battle, You're 0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:11.120 just fighting. I don't know that that kind of game 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:16.600 really changed the way I thought about video games in general. 0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:21.640 And Super Metroid Oh god, yeah, I guess up to 0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:23.680 that point, like there was nothing really like that, right, 0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:27.160 There was no concept of like a a story or 0:40:27.360 --> 0:40:30.560 a motivation behind a lot of these games. It was 0:40:30.600 --> 0:40:33.799 just like character does thing. It is fun, you will 0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:37.319 have fun. That is the game. Did y'all ever go 0:40:37.400 --> 0:40:40.080 on a plane flight when you were a kid and 0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:45.920 like get a video game magazine? Oh my god? That 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:49.439 was again. This is me visiting my grandparents in clear 0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:52.000 Water every once in a while, we would fly instead 0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:55.399 of drive, and if we ever did, it was all 0:40:55.440 --> 0:40:58.440 about getting that video game magazine for the plane flight, 0:40:58.640 --> 0:41:01.440 and you just stare at all the amazing things that 0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:05.239 could be in your life one day. I love that. Yeah. 0:41:05.280 --> 0:41:07.560 I think I maybe got like Game Informer at the 0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:12.160 like at the Hudson news stand or whatever, uh, and 0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:14.960 would like sift through that, like being really stoked about 0:41:16.000 --> 0:41:18.920 like the still images for Kingdom Hearts too or something. 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:21.479 Can we talk for a second about just how hard 0:41:21.560 --> 0:41:25.320 games back then were, like the games on like Second 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:27.960 Genesis for example, like some of those Sonic games, and 0:41:28.040 --> 0:41:30.080 if you all ever played those, but like it felt 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.120 like certain games were just impossible to be Like, I don't. 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:34.720 I don't think I ever beat some of those Sonic 0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:37.520 games that were just like ridiculously hard. But I've heard 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:40.480 like that was the point. I think that the technology 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:43.160 has just come so far. There are some games I 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:44.719 was really good at when I was a kid, and 0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:48.640 now I'm convinced like you compensate for like lag or Glitch, 0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:50.879 So now when I try to play them, I'm like trying, 0:41:50.920 --> 0:41:53.279 why isn't it turning? Like I think you get used 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:55.759 to those things when you're a kid and you kind 0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:57.240 of have it in the back of your mind. Okay, 0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:00.360 I'd start turning two seconds before I actually looks like 0:42:00.400 --> 0:42:02.680 I need to turn. So I'm terrible at a lot 0:42:02.680 --> 0:42:04.600 of games that used to be really really good at, 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:08.520 and they were. They were very, very hard. I have 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:14.040 many memories of just even just the physicality that. Like 0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:16.600 there was another game where the buttons you had to 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:21.840 press to just jump, like double jump impossible, impossible, And 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:23.560 it's not like it laid it out anywhere, like now 0:42:23.600 --> 0:42:26.240 games are really good at being like to jump, press 0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:28.120 a back then it should just go for it. I 0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:32.080 don't know, you figure it out your own figure. There 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:33.960 was a game on any S that I've played called 0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:40.040 Iron Sword Wizards and Warriors Too. That's what it was called, 0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:44.040 and it was my favorite game. I loved it. I 0:42:44.080 --> 0:42:48.800 loved being this warrior in uh like a Google remember 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:52.560 guls and Ghosts, a little iron clad warrior with all 0:42:52.640 --> 0:42:55.160 his armor and his sword. It was like that, but 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:59.360 it was way more simple and way more difficult, and 0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:02.719 I never beat it. I have no idea how that 0:43:02.719 --> 0:43:05.799 game ends. I still think about that game, but I 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:08.879 don't know. I just need to watch a walk through 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:12.359 on YouTube. I guess with somebody who's better than me. Yeah, yeah, 0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:14.560 I've got that with a bunch of Mega Man games 0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:17.400 that I would play on like PlayStation one and a 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.600 couple of other consoles. Does Mega Man games were I 0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:23.840 think probably the hardest games I've ever played. Yeah, except 0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:28.839 for Dark Souls. Christ No, we don't talk about Dark 0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:31.120 Souls in this house. I never played Dark Souls, but 0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:32.880 I live with guys who played Dark Souls, and that 0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:35.520 was painful for me. Yeah, just like f bombs and 0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:37.960 like hearing controllers like Smash against the Law on the 0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:40.440 other room. I went on vacation with my roommates when 0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:42.640 I was twenty three, and one of the dudes brought 0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:45.480 us PS three and Dark Souls and just sat in 0:43:45.800 --> 0:43:48.680 the condo on the beach the entire trip. What a 0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:51.480 horrible vacation playing Dark Souls because he was hooked and 0:43:51.480 --> 0:43:54.000 it was just pain and misery that we all have 0:43:54.120 --> 0:43:57.120 to listen to in this small little condo and Myrtle Beach. 0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:00.640 You guys know Tyler and Chandler, right, Yeah, I know 0:44:00.800 --> 0:44:03.680 of them. These are two other producers who worked with us. 0:44:04.000 --> 0:44:06.359 We used to go in the basement and put on 0:44:06.440 --> 0:44:10.719 Dark Souls on the projector and take turns playing and 0:44:10.800 --> 0:44:14.640 dying horribly and getting so angry and throwing controllers, and 0:44:14.760 --> 0:44:24.560 Chandler would watch and go, you guys are dorks, but 0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:27.560 we couldn't get enough. Do y'all deal with any like 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:30.799 conservative parents or people who kind of like borrored you 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:33.920 from playing like emiraated games and stuff like that, Like 0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:36.360 did your parents not let you play Grand Theft Auto 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:40.960 or whatever? Yep. Yeah. I remember when Alex and I 0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:43.200 got our End sixty four, we were still pretty young. 0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:47.800 There was one rule we couldn't get Zelda because I 0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:50.080 had swords and fighting. We were a lot of play 0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:53.160 super Specs brothers. We weren't a lot of play Zelda. 0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:56.560 We literally had brothers, had link plenty of swords in 0:44:56.600 --> 0:44:59.720 that game. Yeah, and it was all about fighting. Everything 0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:03.520 ange for me when I got a PlayStation and I 0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:07.680 got a game called Resident Evil, and I would play 0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:10.719 it quietly in my room at night, alone in the 0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:15.760 dark and scaring the crap out of myself. I remember 0:45:15.760 --> 0:45:17.600 my friend had to leave one night when he was 0:45:17.640 --> 0:45:19.560 staying over and we were playing Resident Evil and he's like, 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:25.759 I gotta go home. I can't handle this. It wasn't. 0:45:25.800 --> 0:45:28.080 I was hiding it from my parents necessarily. They just 0:45:28.080 --> 0:45:32.160 didn't understand what the game was or how scary it 0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:34.239 was to play, but they let you play it like 0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:37.000 they didn't sense there it from you. That was when 0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:40.239 I was quite a bit older, you know, old enough 0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:44.800 to play Resident Evil. I guess was I. I don't know, God, 0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:49.520 are we ever old enough to play Resident Even My 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:51.919 parents were very much kind of what you mentioned earlier, Max, 0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:54.680 where they were like all about the educational. I had 0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:57.080 a lot of like computer games I played that were 0:45:57.120 --> 0:45:59.240 very educational in nature, and I loved them. I actually 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:02.399 still think about how fun those were. Um, so they 0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:06.080 that was kind of there. I like to like jump 0:46:06.120 --> 0:46:11.040 Start fifth grade. That was so yeah, I think I 0:46:11.040 --> 0:46:14.960 would play that now still. Uh. And they knew, like 0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:17.920 we had the Sega games, so they would see like 0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:21.200 we had a racing game, we had a like dinosaur game. 0:46:21.719 --> 0:46:23.600 But I think, like you said, Man, I think they 0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:27.040 just didn't really under stand that much. So I too 0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:28.960 played Residon Evil and I definitely was too young to 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:31.439 play it. That's also a game. One of the last 0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:33.760 games that I mentioned that I bought with all my allowance. 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:35.680 I bought a Resident Evil game, and I was definitely 0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:37.600 too young to buy it, but the guy didn't say anything. 0:46:38.160 --> 0:46:41.000 I think if they had known, I don't know, they 0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:43.960 might have still been like whatever. Because President Evil is 0:46:44.000 --> 0:46:46.239 kind of a strange one because it's zombies. I don't 0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:47.920 know why that makes it different, but I kind of 0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:50.359 feels like it does. Yeah, I guess they just didn't 0:46:50.360 --> 0:46:51.879 really understand. But I had a friend who was super 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:54.880 conservative and she did not Her parents were super conservative, 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:56.800 and she did not approve of me playing video games 0:46:57.200 --> 0:46:59.640 and she didn't like she didn't want me to play 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:03.080 them around her. So I didn't counter that just on 0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:07.160 the educational games tip. I feel like all my parents 0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:09.640 money went into my video game addiction. Now that I've 0:47:09.960 --> 0:47:11.520 made this, I made a list of all the games 0:47:11.520 --> 0:47:14.000 I played, and I'm just thinking about these things. Super 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:18.680 Nintendo and Nintendo made a piano game. Are you guys 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:21.160 aware of this? Like an early Guitar Hero type thing. 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:24.439 It's kind of like Guitar Hero, but it was specifically 0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:28.080 to teach somebody how to play piano, and it was 0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:32.160 called Miracle. I believe because I think we had one. 0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:36.480 It's weird. I remember specifically having a Miracle Keyboard. I 0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:38.759 can't remember if we had the game for it or not, 0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:41.560 but it was a just a cheap little keyboard and 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:44.239 you could plug your Nintendo or your Supernintendo into it. 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:48.520 But that's just really cool. Game systems did things like that. Yeah. 0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:51.040 I mean, I know Guitar Hero is not actually teaching 0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:54.279 anybody how to play guitar, but I feel like it 0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:57.120 definitely inspired a lot of people I know to actually 0:47:57.120 --> 0:47:58.960 pick up a guitar and try and figure that out. 0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:00.759 And I think I introduce a lot of people to 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.719 like a lot of music that maybe people wouldn't have 0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:06.680 known about otherwise. Hell yeah, dude, look at that. Matt 0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:13.320 just pulled out a guitar. Guitar. It's my PlayStation two. Nice. 0:48:13.440 --> 0:48:15.600 How out did those buttons work? Are? Are they like 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:19.279 super sticky and barely work? Both are in perfectly working order. 0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:23.919 I loved d d R. I had the Matt Dance 0:48:23.960 --> 0:48:27.920 Dance Revolution. I still have them, and we, me and 0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:30.560 my little brother would just play after school. We would 0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:33.000 play DDR, and to this day, there are certain songs 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:35.960 I can't hear without being like step step step jump step, 0:48:37.280 --> 0:48:40.719 and we would just try so hard to like perfect 0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:44.000 all the songs, and we we had to like do 0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:47.400 some surgery on one of the mats because the sensors 0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:50.600 got all messed up. But that was that was fun. 0:48:50.960 --> 0:48:52.840 I had such a good time with D d R. 0:48:53.440 --> 0:48:55.600 This is what I wanted to bring up. Um more 0:48:56.120 --> 0:49:02.520 things that consoles introduced that were perifer periphery peripherals, so 0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:08.880 how you say it's peripherals. Other pieces of hardware that 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:12.280 you would attach to your game system to play specific games. 0:49:13.160 --> 0:49:15.880 The one I think many of us probably think about 0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:20.600 is the Nintendo Light Gun, the orange one. Did you 0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:23.879 guys play duck Hunt and all those? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 0:49:24.640 --> 0:49:30.920 Does anybody remember the Super Nintendo light Gun? Was it different? Yes, 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:36.120 it was a full blown bazooka called the super Scope six, 0:49:36.719 --> 0:49:39.520 and it was a bazooka and you held it and 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:41.839 you played games the way you would with a light gun. 0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:48.160 But so were you like bzooking like ducks and duck Hunters? Still? No, 0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:52.160 I remember you're shooting like missiles that are flying through 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:54.120 the air. You've got your buzuka and you're trying to 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:56.560 shoot them down. Because I'm just imagining you're playing duck 0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:57.959 Hunt and you're trying to hunt them and you should 0:49:58.000 --> 0:50:04.160 have missed, lad and he just blows them. Dog goes 0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:10.799 to sorry dog splash damage. My friend had a she 0:50:10.880 --> 0:50:15.840 had like an early VR system, um like early early days, 0:50:16.760 --> 0:50:20.839 and that God. I hated it because it was like 0:50:21.160 --> 0:50:24.360 the graphics weren't good. It was really disorienting, and it 0:50:24.440 --> 0:50:27.160 just never did what you were doing. It didn't work 0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:30.719 very well. I guess the technology wasn't there. Yeah, I 0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:34.759 don't know. VR never really appealed to me. However, I 0:50:34.760 --> 0:50:37.320 feel like the Wii is probably was like the closest 0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:40.880 thing to uh, making it sort of accessible or a 0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:43.799 version of it accessible, because it's all like very interactive, right, 0:50:43.840 --> 0:50:46.239 Like the whole point of the week console was like 0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:50.520 to sort of simulate VR and or like at least 0:50:51.120 --> 0:50:54.719 have movement correlate to things happening in the game. I 0:50:54.800 --> 0:50:58.360 just really quickly want to talk about the experience of 0:50:58.360 --> 0:51:01.799 playing video games with your child. It's given me a 0:51:01.800 --> 0:51:03.920 ton of perspective just on what it was, what it 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:07.240 must have been like from my parents to like release 0:51:07.320 --> 0:51:11.160 me into these video game worlds and trust that I would. 0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:15.279 I don't know. It's it's about decision making in a 0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:19.600 lot of cases, especially in newer games. Like what decision 0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:23.719 will my son make when he encounters a bunch of 0:51:23.719 --> 0:51:27.240 farm animals and Minecraft? How will he react when villagers 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:30.919 are around in Minecraft? And you know, having those conversations 0:51:30.960 --> 0:51:34.400 with him about well, you know, why would we just 0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:39.160 kill all of these guys or what what's the difference 0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:41.400 between if you'd kill the villager or if you trade 0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:43.960 with the villager. I know that's kind of weird thing 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:48.080 to think about, but I'm just imagining the learning opportunities 0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:50.360 that aren't just sitting down and you know, learning the 0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:52.640 way with the with the educational games that we used 0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:57.600 to play, but learning about interaction with other things in 0:51:57.640 --> 0:52:03.240 an environment. I both leave. There was a big study 0:52:03.320 --> 0:52:07.160 done about that and specifically like actions have consequences and 0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:13.520 learning that through video games and what that can look like. 0:52:14.239 --> 0:52:16.040 And this is sort of outside the scope of what 0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:18.640 we're talking about today, but video games have been used 0:52:19.480 --> 0:52:22.880 to train people to do things, and one thing I 0:52:22.920 --> 0:52:27.520 find really interesting about them is that sort of aspect 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:30.759 of when you're designing a game, you do have to 0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:33.200 kind of get into like how the human brain works, 0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:35.440 and like are they going to get that they need 0:52:35.480 --> 0:52:38.120 to go over here? All these really interesting design elements, 0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:43.880 but essentially trying to codify humans and what are they 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:47.759 going to do in the space, which I find like 0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:52.879 really really really fascinating, and and the ways that they 0:52:52.880 --> 0:52:56.080 can they can be used as kind of a teaching 0:52:56.080 --> 0:53:02.120 way but also like a reflection of of yourself. It 0:53:02.239 --> 0:53:04.560 is weird how video games for me, at this point 0:53:04.560 --> 0:53:08.040 in my late thirties are are in a it's an escape. 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:12.279 It's an avoidance almost of real responsibility, things that I 0:53:12.320 --> 0:53:14.719 know I need to get done that I just need 0:53:14.760 --> 0:53:19.360 a break after working or after doing something stressful, um, 0:53:19.560 --> 0:53:25.200 go into a different place, disassociate a bit weirdly, um 0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:27.799 m m. And I've been doing that since I was 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:30.120 a kid. When I was stressed out with school or something, 0:53:30.160 --> 0:53:33.120 I would want to play my video game. Uh. That's 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:36.919 why Ultimate Online was a real addiction a problem. Yeah, 0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:41.120 I'm with you. It's weird. How to me that like 0:53:41.239 --> 0:53:44.360 feeling of escapism and addiction and all that kind of 0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:47.480 stuff like like carries with you your whole life in 0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:52.040 a weird way, like games provide that I think that'll 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:53.400 probably carry with us. I don't know what do you 0:53:53.400 --> 0:53:56.880 guys think, Like how do you see gaming, um like 0:53:56.960 --> 0:53:58.880 being a part of your life over the next like 0:53:58.920 --> 0:54:01.399 say ten to twenty year is what do you think 0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:05.959 it will be for you? It's a good question, So yeah, 0:54:06.000 --> 0:54:11.040 currently I use them. They're definitely kind of an escapism 0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:14.759 and kind of like babysit your brain sometimes just when 0:54:14.880 --> 0:54:18.719 do this. I really really enjoy story games, as I said, 0:54:18.760 --> 0:54:22.040 and I think there are some video games that the 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:24.400 story is so good. I guess what I'm saying is 0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:26.520 to me, I feel like in the future, I'm going 0:54:26.600 --> 0:54:28.720 to still be playing these same games because it's almost 0:54:28.800 --> 0:54:31.680 like an interactive movie, which I do like. I know 0:54:31.719 --> 0:54:34.960 some people don't, but I really like getting caught up 0:54:34.960 --> 0:54:37.880 in the story and getting to control it. And there's 0:54:37.960 --> 0:54:40.880 so many instances in my life where I'll look back 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:43.839 and I'm a grown woman and I'll stay up all 0:54:43.960 --> 0:54:45.600 night because I want to know how the story ends, 0:54:45.640 --> 0:54:47.440 like I'll be up, I can't stop, I can't stop, 0:54:47.480 --> 0:54:50.239 I kiss out, like I know how it ends. Um. 0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:51.920 So I think that for me it's going to be 0:54:53.360 --> 0:54:55.759 it's gonna be like that. I would be very it 0:54:55.800 --> 0:54:58.200 would be funny to me if I like suddenly love 0:54:58.280 --> 0:55:02.439 something like animal crossing and like switches. But I think 0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:04.839 it's I'm going to stay the course. I'm pretty sure 0:55:04.840 --> 0:55:06.880 I'm going to keep like ten twenty years from now, 0:55:06.880 --> 0:55:09.799 I'm still gonna be playing video games. Yeah, same, And 0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:13.080 I think my answer is probably similar, but I'd add 0:55:13.960 --> 0:55:17.920 that I feel like video games as a storytelling vehicle 0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:23.040 is like improving so vastly with every new generation of games. 0:55:23.120 --> 0:55:26.719 Like God of War, for example, just like blew my 0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:29.880 mind with like, um, like how well it was written, 0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:33.000 like the kind of like emotional density of it, like 0:55:33.320 --> 0:55:37.279 the how real the characters like felt both in their 0:55:37.320 --> 0:55:39.319 like dialogue and the way they look and a moat. 0:55:39.880 --> 0:55:42.120 You know, It's like games are becoming so advanced now 0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:44.920 that like it's it's no longer just like the kind 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:49.880 of clunky, you know, dialogue box sort of storytelling from 0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:51.759 you know, not even that long ago. I feel like 0:55:51.800 --> 0:55:54.640 even in the early is like go back and listen 0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:57.200 to some of that dialogue on a lot of popular games, 0:55:57.200 --> 0:56:00.319 and it's just like really kind of cringe e and 0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:03.000 like not great, but like, man, they're getting so much 0:56:03.000 --> 0:56:05.840 better at that, Like they're getting real voice actors and 0:56:06.360 --> 0:56:09.000 like them, the c g I is getting to the 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:12.160 point where like it really looks like they're saying, you know, 0:56:12.200 --> 0:56:16.280 almost like a like high budget, multimillion dollar like animated 0:56:16.320 --> 0:56:18.960 film or something like that. So I'm really excited to 0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:22.080 see like how the storytelling and like both in terms 0:56:22.080 --> 0:56:26.279 of visual effects and in writing like gets better over 0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:28.319 the next ten to twenty years. You know, I feel 0:56:28.320 --> 0:56:31.520 like we're gonna get like a Citizen Kane of video 0:56:31.600 --> 0:56:33.840 gaming here in the next few years. I feel like 0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:36.359 it's inevitable. When I think about gaming in the future, 0:56:36.360 --> 0:56:38.640 I think it's going to probably stay the same. I mean, 0:56:39.120 --> 0:56:42.000 I feel like it's just like part of it's a thread, 0:56:42.040 --> 0:56:44.120 the tapestory of like me as a person. It's like 0:56:44.880 --> 0:56:47.800 it's such an important thing, like working on this. This 0:56:47.880 --> 0:56:49.520 is like, you know, these last few weeks, I'm like, 0:56:49.560 --> 0:56:52.480 oh man, I'm being so nostalgic. I'm thinking about things 0:56:53.360 --> 0:56:56.040 like I'm thinking about how bad my brother always tried 0:56:56.040 --> 0:56:58.840 to cheat every video game and still lost. He was 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:01.120 still lose to me, but he would tried really hard 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:04.000 to cheat every some time. It's like, I don't know, 0:57:04.080 --> 0:57:07.400 I like, I don't see myself, you know, being my 0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:10.600 fifties and not having video games around. I just think 0:57:10.680 --> 0:57:12.480 it's like, you know, if I do have a family. 0:57:12.480 --> 0:57:14.000 One day I do have kids, I think I'm gonna 0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:16.280 be like, hey, here are video games, because they don't 0:57:16.280 --> 0:57:18.040 give me excuse to play video games with you and 0:57:18.080 --> 0:57:21.240 stuff like that. I love what you said, Max about 0:57:22.480 --> 0:57:25.200 video games being a part of the tapestry. That is 0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:27.320 you like, I'm looking at a list right now. I 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:29.760 can just see it. This is my life right here 0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:33.439 in a list of titles. Um. And at the top 0:57:33.480 --> 0:57:36.800 of the list is that in television video game system 0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:40.200 that I had when I was a little kid. I 0:57:40.240 --> 0:57:45.160 don't have clear memories of it, but I remember um 0:57:45.200 --> 0:57:48.240 sitting in front of this old CRT television with my dad, 0:57:48.320 --> 0:57:52.040 specifically my dad, and we were playing, Uh, do you 0:57:52.040 --> 0:57:55.200 remember the old game Centipede? We were playing Centipede together. 0:57:55.920 --> 0:58:00.200 Recently took my son to david Busters and there was 0:58:00.240 --> 0:58:03.520 a Centipede game, like an arcade game with Centipede, and 0:58:03.560 --> 0:58:05.919 it was cool and new and looked neater and had 0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:08.480 flashing lights and everything. And he looked at it and 0:58:08.480 --> 0:58:10.840 he just wanted to play. He said, Dad, play with me. 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:14.600 So I sat down with him and we played a 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:21.280 bunch of rounds. And I think just using video games 0:58:21.320 --> 0:58:24.320 in the future for me as an excuse to spend 0:58:24.360 --> 0:58:26.680 some quiet time with my son where we get to 0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:31.520 bond and learn about things and have those moral choices 0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:35.160 that I was talking about, and just, I don't know, 0:58:35.280 --> 0:58:38.120 using them as a weirdly a tool to kind of 0:58:38.160 --> 0:58:41.360 shape his outlook on the world and the way he 0:58:41.480 --> 0:58:46.600 views other people and things within it and himself. As 0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:49.480 you were speaking to Annie, like through this character, how 0:58:49.520 --> 0:58:56.480 do I see myself? That's what I'm gonna do. This 0:58:56.520 --> 0:58:59.520 episode of a Thema was co written by Max Billiams 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:03.320 and Every Yung, with production by Max Williams and additional 0:59:03.440 --> 0:59:06.800 editing from Jesse Fonk. Stephen L. Kent is the author 0:59:06.840 --> 0:59:09.760 of the Ultimate History of Video Games Volumes one and two. 0:59:10.560 --> 0:59:13.080 Some of the great music this episode, like the piece 0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:16.400 you're hearing now comes Curtis to the artist mon plays you. 0:59:17.000 --> 0:59:19.400 If you've listened to Ephemeral for a while, you've heard 0:59:19.400 --> 0:59:21.720 a lot of their work, and we're happy to announce 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:25.320 we'll have an upcoming episode interviewing the artist for now 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:29.840 here more at Loyalty Freak music dot com and big 0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:33.680 thanks to our return guests Matt Frederick and Annie Reese. 0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.640 We'd love to hear from you about your favorite games, 0:59:37.040 --> 0:59:39.280 What are your best gaming memories. What do you think 0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:41.960 the future holds for video games? Let us know on 0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:46.640 social media. We're at ephemeral show and for more podcasts 0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:50.600 from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:59:51.000 --> 0:59:53.080 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.