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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

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Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple podcast, SoundCloud

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. The future of

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Speaker 1: Obamacare is once again in the courts and in jeopardy,

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Speaker 1: as the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals heard oral arguments

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Speaker 1: yesterday on whether the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional. Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: was one of the states defending the law and joining

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Speaker 1: me is the Attorney General of Massachusetts, Maura Healey. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us. General. Great to be with you, June.

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Speaker 1: Will you explain the basic argument in the case? Well?

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Speaker 1: Sure to provide some context. Remember, it was years ago

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Speaker 1: that Congress passed the Affordable Care Act. It was challenged,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ruled that the a c A was constitutional.

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Speaker 1: Republican members of Congress tried seventy times to repeal the

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Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act. When you saw people take to the

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Speaker 1: streets and town halls and protests and ultimately they failed

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Speaker 1: in the effort to repeal. Now what happened is a

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Speaker 1: group of Republican state ags and governors filed a lawsuit

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Speaker 1: to try this from a different angle, and that is

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Speaker 1: to challenge the a c A in court. And at

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Speaker 1: the time, the Justice Department was supposed to, consistent with

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Speaker 1: its constitutional duty and obligation, defend the a c A.

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Speaker 1: But what's happened, unfortunately, is that the Justice Department is

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Speaker 1: not defending the a c A. And a number of

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Speaker 1: states like Massachusetts, California, New York, and others have joined

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Speaker 1: now to defend the Affordable Care Act because it is

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Speaker 1: imperative that we keep this law in place. Lives depend

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Speaker 1: on it, our health care markets depend on it, and unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: this is just another effort to sabotage access to care

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Speaker 1: and really read havoc with the system. When the Texas

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Speaker 1: judge struck down the law in December, many legal spirits

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Speaker 1: said it was an outlier decision, it wouldn't survive an

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Speaker 1: appeals court. But most observers at the hearings you say

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Speaker 1: that two of the three judges appeared to side with

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Speaker 1: the Republican States arguments. Well, let me say a couple

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Speaker 1: of things. First, I'm not going to read much into

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Speaker 1: the questions asked by the judges on the fifth Circuit.

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Speaker 1: I think we need to wait to see what they're

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Speaker 1: ruling is. But I agree that the District Court's decision

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Speaker 1: is an outlier. In my view, it is not consistent

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Speaker 1: with the law. It doesn't follow the law, and that's

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Speaker 1: exactly why this matter has been appealed now to the

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Speaker 1: Fifth Circuit. I expected to go to the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully the Supreme Court will rule in a way

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Speaker 1: that once again preserves the Affordable Care Act, because you

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Speaker 1: know what this is about. It's not about anything more

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Speaker 1: than politics and really trying to undo something that happened

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Speaker 1: during the Obama administration. What undoing the a c A

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Speaker 1: would do is put healthcare at risk for more than

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Speaker 1: a hundred thirty million Americans who have pre existing conditions

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Speaker 1: who are now ensurable because of the a c A.

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Speaker 1: We've got hundreds of thousands of people across this country

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Speaker 1: who benefited from Medicaid expansion through the a c A

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Speaker 1: who would lose that. We've got all these young people

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Speaker 1: who are now covered on their parents care up through

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Speaker 1: the age of twenty six who would lose access to

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Speaker 1: that care. And we've got community health centers and other

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Speaker 1: providers whose funding and livelihood basically is at stake. This

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Speaker 1: is about the stability of our entire insurance market, and

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Speaker 1: it's also about saving lives and making sure that people

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Speaker 1: across this country have access to the care they need.

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Speaker 1: That's why we're in court, that's why we're defending the

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Speaker 1: a c A. I hope the Fifth Circuit rules in

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Speaker 1: our favor and reverses what really is a wrongheaded decision

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Speaker 1: by the District Court in Texas, and ultimately we'll be

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Speaker 1: prepared to fight this all the way through to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. But we have got to provide access to

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Speaker 1: health care. The A c A is something that is working.

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Speaker 1: It is big now into our markets, and to undo that,

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Speaker 1: to sabotage this is really, I think morally wrong and problematic,

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Speaker 1: but it's economically stupid and it really will set us back.

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Speaker 1: So these federal judges are looking into whether the individual

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Speaker 1: mandate is unconstitutional, whether the law can stand without the

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Speaker 1: individual mandate. Are they taking into account what you just describe,

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Speaker 1: what would happen to health care for millions of Americans

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Speaker 1: if the law is found unconstitutional? Are allowed to do that?

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Speaker 1: They are, and I sure hope that that is something

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Speaker 1: they look at. They also are going to look at

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Speaker 1: the actual intent of Congress at the time the law

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Speaker 1: was passed, and in our view and in the view

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Speaker 1: of including a bipartisan group of legal scholars who filed

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Speaker 1: a brief in support of our position to sending the

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Speaker 1: legality of the a c A. Looking at the text

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Speaker 1: and Congress is intent. It is year that they intended

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Speaker 1: this law to stand regardless of an individual mandate being

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Speaker 1: in place, or regardless of a tax penalty being in

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Speaker 1: place which has now been been taken away. So this

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Speaker 1: is really important. And you know, June yesterday, I had

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to sit with a mother whose son has

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Speaker 1: a complex congenital heart defect. He's had three open heart surgeries,

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Speaker 1: significant medical care that will continue to be the case

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Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. Now he's ensurable under

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Speaker 1: the a c A and would be going forward because

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Speaker 1: the A c A makes clear that if you're somebody

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Speaker 1: with a pre existing condition, you can't be made unensurable.

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Speaker 1: But if the see it goes away, so does the

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Speaker 1: likelihood that this young man will be able to access

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Speaker 1: health care. And that's what I mean. This is about

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Speaker 1: people's lives and why a certain number of Republicans are

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Speaker 1: dead set on trying to sabotage and take away access

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Speaker 1: to care. Really boggles my mind when you think about

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Speaker 1: the concern and the wary that parents like this mother

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Speaker 1: has to live with u now with with this challenge

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Speaker 1: being placed and now being put at risk through through

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Speaker 1: the litigation. Well, it seemed at the hearing yesterday that

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Speaker 1: the attorney for the Justice Department struggled at different points

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Speaker 1: to explain what would happen if the judges found the

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Speaker 1: law unconstitutional. Does that suggest that there's no plan in place?

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Speaker 1: They can't articulate it because they don't want to articulate.

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Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is it's going to result

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Speaker 1: in people dying in this country. People will not have

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Speaker 1: access to healthcare that have access to it now. It's

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Speaker 1: also going to rehab it for employers and our health

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Speaker 1: care market, our health insurance market, which by the way,

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Speaker 1: is once six of the economy in this country. And

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Speaker 1: so they don't want to call out the truth about

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Speaker 1: what will happen. And and that's why, you know, let

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Speaker 1: me also remind folks what happened here. Justice Department was

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Speaker 1: set to defend this law and then it got an

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Speaker 1: instruction by Jeff Sessions and President Trump to no longer

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Speaker 1: defend the law and to actually switch sides and challenge

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Speaker 1: the law. Every lawyer from the Justice Department who was

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Speaker 1: working on the case and prepared to defend the law

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Speaker 1: was removed from the case or resigned and replaced with

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Speaker 1: lawyers who are now in court. It's crazy, it's wrong,

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Speaker 1: and most of all, it's illegal, and that's why we're

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Speaker 1: in court on this, and it's really a shame. This

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be a partisan issue. It shouldn't be a political issue.

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Speaker 1: This is about ensuring that people have access to care

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Speaker 1: and that our health insurance markets are functioning. But unfortunately

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Speaker 1: there's a group that just doesn't seem to care that

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Speaker 1: they're putting lives at risk. Well, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining US General. That's Massachusetts Attorney General Maurra Healey.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe to listen to the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg