Speaker 1: My name is Trim, and this is Saigon, the story
Speaker 1: of my family and of the country that shaped us.
Speaker 2: The United States will not stand by and allow any power,
Speaker 2: however great, the April another time, or.
Speaker 3: You would be a natural explosion as well on new.
Speaker 4: Land, A bad eighty batlen Land, life of eighty Ball.
Speaker 5: That can be no peace without justice, and that can
Speaker 5: be no justice without peace.
Speaker 1: Chapter five. For a long time there was confusion over
Speaker 1: who had died and who had surrendered at d envy
Speaker 1: n Fo. Months later, after the French abdicated and Vietnam
Speaker 1: was split into a communist north and a supposedly democratic south,
Speaker 1: the surviving prisoners were sent home. When Paul was not
Speaker 1: among them, Some thought he could have been one of
Speaker 1: the seventy who escaped into Lao, but eventually reports of
Speaker 1: his death were accepted, and two years after the fall
Speaker 1: of d Enbien Fu, a memorial service for Paul Devaux
Speaker 1: was finally held in.
Speaker 6: Saigon Benedictus Deus Benedictus nomad Sanctum Aus Benedictus Jesus Christus
Speaker 6: Verus Deus se verus.
Speaker 1: Omo for his widow Land and her parents. A full
Speaker 1: Latin requiem mass was an alien experiences.
Speaker 4: Didn't understand a word of it, did you, dear me?
Speaker 1: Nothing land No.
Speaker 4: Beautiful of course, yeah, in its own European way.
Speaker 7: Paul would have loved it.
Speaker 4: Ah, well, coffee, what about catheline. I need a little
Speaker 4: break before I hit back to work.
Speaker 7: I'll wait for Joseph. But if you get a table,
Speaker 7: we'll meet you there, will order?
Speaker 8: Then?
Speaker 4: Come on, husband, Yes, I'm coming, I'm coming Joseph.
Speaker 8: Ah, there you are, Oh my godly.
Speaker 1: Joseph had flown in from America the day before and
Speaker 1: had listened to the service from the back with the
Speaker 1: general congregation.
Speaker 8: What a fitting farewell, Yes, a full requiem mass.
Speaker 7: Yes, it was very nice. He was a good man.
Speaker 8: You're okay.
Speaker 7: I'm fine, always happier when you're here. Let's walk this way.
Speaker 7: My father's finding us a table at Katheline.
Speaker 8: Ah, I didn't see too yet.
Speaker 7: No, she put her foot down. She said she's not
Speaker 7: interested in a Latin mass for a Frenchman she barely met. Really,
Speaker 7: she's twenty. We all held strong views at twenty.
Speaker 8: Is she a communist?
Speaker 7: No? A nationalist, that's what she claims.
Speaker 8: What started all this?
Speaker 7: You me, well, your country, not you personally. When the
Speaker 7: French gave up power, she was hoping a united Vietnam
Speaker 7: would become self ruled through an elected leader. Instead, America
Speaker 7: installed the Prime Minister who kept the South separate and
Speaker 7: canceled the elections.
Speaker 8: But at least Prime Minister DM is Vietnamese.
Speaker 7: He's also Catholic in to Yette's size, that's just America
Speaker 7: replacing one colonial power with another.
Speaker 8: Maybe I should talk to her.
Speaker 7: If you think you can change her mind.
Speaker 8: You can't, you know, Ln. I was hoping to keep
Speaker 8: this for later, but I threw caution to the wind
Speaker 8: this time and booked flights back to America for both
Speaker 8: of you. No, don't just sigh. If you and two
Speaker 8: yet could see what we have to offer, I know
Speaker 8: you'd be happy there. We could. We could open a
Speaker 8: branch of your father's business. He could visit too.
Speaker 7: What about your wife?
Speaker 8: You know we only stayed together for Gary, and now
Speaker 8: he's all grown up, he's about to start college. It's
Speaker 8: it's more or less over now.
Speaker 3: And away.
Speaker 2: Goes up.
Speaker 6: Where have you been?
Speaker 8: Coffees arrived? We should toast, Yeah, Paul was always toasting something.
Speaker 9: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: To Connel.
Speaker 8: Paul deverrel to pull Santa.
Speaker 3: Such a tragedy.
Speaker 4: I was going to ask him to join the company,
Speaker 4: you know, coax him out of the army into something
Speaker 4: more secure. I have to find someone to take the
Speaker 4: reins when I'm no longer able to hold them.
Speaker 8: Oh why not Land?
Speaker 7: Oh no, no, actually I hadn't thought.
Speaker 9: Oh no, no, my daughter isn't interested in business.
Speaker 7: Excuse me, mother, I haven't said that. Oh I just
Speaker 7: haven't thought about it.
Speaker 8: I think you'd be terrific. You're great with people, you
Speaker 8: have a real skill.
Speaker 5: Yes, and business is mostly relationships.
Speaker 4: To sell a commodity in this new regime, you need
Speaker 4: a government license, and to get a license you need influence.
Speaker 4: And to have influence you need either charm or money,
Speaker 4: or both, which can involve some tiresome haggling.
Speaker 7: Oh come on, father, you love the haggling.
Speaker 4: I think we both do, if we're honest. Maybe, although
Speaker 4: our workers are the real hagglers. They're much worse than
Speaker 4: government officials.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 4: They seem to hate us, even when we do so
Speaker 4: much for them. Yeah, we create jobs, opportunities, pay their wages,
Speaker 4: and yet all they do is complain about the hours
Speaker 4: or conditions. Nothing's ever good enough.
Speaker 7: Now it's not sounding so attractive.
Speaker 4: No, on the contrary, you would probably wrap them around
Speaker 4: your little finger.
Speaker 7: I doubt it. I've haggled buying bananas, but I've never
Speaker 7: really negotiated anything.
Speaker 11: We'll come and.
Speaker 9: See what it's like.
Speaker 4: I have a meeting in half an hour.
Speaker 12: Land, husband, Please don't twist her arm.
Speaker 4: I'm not twisting her arm with Pierre Montande. He owns
Speaker 4: the Citron license for South Vietnam.
Speaker 5: Now the French are no longer in power, he needs
Speaker 5: a Vietnamese partner.
Speaker 8: You should go Land. No, she shouldn't strike while the
Speaker 8: iron's hot.
Speaker 7: Can I just think about it first?
Speaker 8: I was just saying, Monsieur Hugh, we could look at
Speaker 8: opening an office of your company in America.
Speaker 4: We could I have thought about expanding, and that's what
Speaker 4: this meeting's about.
Speaker 8: Just go see what you think.
Speaker 1: Don't let them pressure your daughter.
Speaker 4: Ah, come on, just come and listen.
Speaker 8: I'll get the check and escort Adam Hugh back to
Speaker 8: the villa.
Speaker 9: Thank you.
Speaker 8: You go, then this this could make a real difference.
Speaker 4: Good good, good, Okay, I'll hear a taxi for us.
Speaker 11: Go so well.
Speaker 1: Joseph paid for the coffees, Madame Hugh sat and watched
Speaker 1: her daughter and husband stride to the edge of the
Speaker 1: square and flag down a cyclone.
Speaker 4: Okay, come on inside, inside after you.
Speaker 1: But before they could get in.
Speaker 4: Here, boss, come on so here, Fleas.
Speaker 2: Wait in a moment, it's me.
Speaker 5: Yes, you don't remember.
Speaker 4: No, I'm sorry letting you. I was a foreman on
Speaker 4: your plantation before you.
Speaker 11: This is me.
Speaker 4: Oh, yes, yes, you were organizing the workers into a collective.
Speaker 4: This meant Lund would have stopped production and cost us thousands.
Speaker 11: Until you pay this fairly.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, good for you.
Speaker 9: Come on, Lon, let's go.
Speaker 1: Still watching from the table in the cafe, Madame Hugh frowned,
Speaker 1: without knowing what was being said. It just didn't look right.
Speaker 8: Okay, you ready, Madam?
Speaker 12: Here, what's going on over there where?
Speaker 1: Joseph looked across.
Speaker 12: What do you think, Joseph, do you know him?
Speaker 1: Land was now sitting in the cyclo, but as her
Speaker 1: father tried to join her. As the man struggled with
Speaker 1: Messyr Hugh, Joseph noticed something was strapped to his chest.
Speaker 12: He's got something.
Speaker 1: A wire fell from under his shirt.
Speaker 8: No, no, praydom.
Speaker 7: I had a baby. Joseph Our child cried for you
Speaker 7: the little boy who lost his wife. Hearing you talk,
Speaker 7: oh my hand.
Speaker 1: Hours later, Joseph took Madame you home when they reached
Speaker 1: the villa. You're really told you yet what had happened,
Speaker 1: and then waited in the garden room.
Speaker 8: M How is she too yet?
Speaker 10: She wants you to leave, mister Sherman.
Speaker 8: Yes, yes, of course I'll come back later.
Speaker 10: That's okay, She says, you have brought this family sadness
Speaker 10: too many times, and my mother would still be alive
Speaker 10: if you hadn't insisted she go to that meeting.
Speaker 8: I didn't what.
Speaker 10: You didn't? What are you going to rewrite history now,
Speaker 10: mister Sherman.
Speaker 8: I loved her too too, yet she.
Speaker 13: Didn't want to be a capitalist. That was you killed her.
Speaker 8: I booked a ticket to bring you back to America.
Speaker 12: What are you talking about?
Speaker 8: Just listen to me please for a second. Can you
Speaker 8: please listen?
Speaker 13: You can't just take me back to America. Who the
Speaker 13: hell do you think you are?
Speaker 8: I am your father too yet, and Vietnam is not
Speaker 8: psych you know Vietnam.
Speaker 13: All you do is appear every few years and write
Speaker 13: about us like with some sort of curiosity. There's a
Speaker 13: fire coming to this country and it's going to burn
Speaker 13: out everything, all the corruption, all the exploitation, and I'm
Speaker 13: going to be part of it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Joseph could see that Land had been right. It was
Speaker 1: hopeless trying to change to Yette's mind. She was beyond reach.
Speaker 1: Land had been the love of his life and losing
Speaker 1: to yet would double the blow. But when they met
Speaker 1: again a few days later at Land's funeral, it would
Speaker 1: be the last contact they'd have for many years. Joseph
Speaker 1: flew back to America again and didn't return to Vietnam
Speaker 1: until he was sent there by Associated Press in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty three.
Speaker 2: Let on right or lay You've gotten to be?
Speaker 6: John Glenna.
Speaker 1: The nineteen sixties brought in a time of change, and
Speaker 1: America started courting the wider world with a new president,
Speaker 1: John F. Kennedy and a fresh outlook.
Speaker 2: That's the word go bought from this time and late
Speaker 2: to a friend and full alike that we You'll pay
Speaker 2: any price, there, any burden, meet any hard gift, co
Speaker 2: bought any brand up, Oh any foe? Who are You're?
Speaker 2: The survival? Canne success of.
Speaker 1: Limity in Vietnam. The forces fighting for liberty were Communists,
Speaker 1: while the supposed democracy America supported was an unelected and
Speaker 1: very unpopular government, a situation that attracted journalists from all
Speaker 1: over the world.
Speaker 2: Although Premier Key has restored order in some sections of
Speaker 2: his torn republic.
Speaker 14: This is Miami, Howell and I am a few blocks
Speaker 14: from the presidential palace.
Speaker 2: In Psycho First demonstrations broke out one students, Buddhists and
Speaker 2: other group's protests as acusing.
Speaker 14: His own people is making his position more precarious by
Speaker 14: the day.
Speaker 7: Aigon remains a city of violence and unresk the administrations
Speaker 7: in this former French colony.
Speaker 14: French rule in Vietnam was hated for decades, but now
Speaker 14: America is only one step away from taking on the
Speaker 14: same role. Could history repeat itself.
Speaker 2: And was great?
Speaker 1: Navy, Naomi Howell and Todd Shashka were a news team
Speaker 1: working for British movie Tone Moments.
Speaker 12: Would you want to Get It? But he gives him
Speaker 12: an hour or so to get to the palace.
Speaker 14: I've got an old friend to meet and we might
Speaker 14: as well let the crowd LB cups in the passion
Speaker 14: see what the palace about?
Speaker 3: Midday Yeah, Joe.
Speaker 1: Naomi hurried to a small cafe where an old friend
Speaker 1: was waiting.
Speaker 8: Joseph, Naomi House, Thanks, keeping busy.
Speaker 12: Well, just having a break from covering the Buddhist demonstration.
Speaker 8: What about you, Yeah, filing on the same thing for
Speaker 8: Associated Press.
Speaker 12: Do you think it'll make President DM change anything.
Speaker 8: Nope, He'll probably just get his brother to arrest as
Speaker 8: many poor suckers as he can go.
Speaker 1: So during the late fifties, President DM's gangster like brother,
Speaker 1: Nodan New had formed a secret special force, which was
Speaker 1: now just adding.
Speaker 12: To the chaos. What do you make of New?
Speaker 8: He's dangerously autocratic and Washington doesn't like it.
Speaker 12: It feels like something's about to break.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it could all go to hell very quickly. Ah,
Speaker 8: here he is. I hope you don't mind. My son's
Speaker 8: on R and R and I thought he could join
Speaker 8: us absolutely. Gary here, Hey, yeah, yeah, take a seat, Naomi.
Speaker 8: This is Lieutenant Gary Sherman.
Speaker 7: Hi.
Speaker 8: Naomi's out here from the UK.
Speaker 15: Oh right, the movie tone girl.
Speaker 12: Thanks, Joseph, Is that how you talk about me?
Speaker 8: That's true, don't worry.
Speaker 15: He also calls you an island of sanity in a
Speaker 15: river of madness.
Speaker 14: All right, I'll take that. So, have you been out
Speaker 14: on patrol fighting the Viet cong fighting me.
Speaker 15: No, I'm sorry, Naomi, but our president has made it
Speaker 15: very clear. The only Americans here at the moment are
Speaker 15: the military advisors to the South Vietnamese Army.
Speaker 12: Oh, sixteen thousand of you.
Speaker 15: Well, they need a lot of advice.
Speaker 12: And where about weren't.
Speaker 15: You East Mekong Delta? Usual thing looking for communist sympathizers
Speaker 15: find any Oh?
Speaker 9: Hell yeah?
Speaker 4: Everywhere?
Speaker 15: Our platoon was attacked seven times, three dead, nine wounded.
Speaker 15: We're not winning, I'll tell you that is.
Speaker 14: Any of this on the record, No, God, no, could
Speaker 14: it be. You'd be up for an interview, wouldn't you, Gary?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 8: Look, I'd need permission, which you face it, you'll never get.
Speaker 12: Why not?
Speaker 15: Oh, come on, Naomi, it is pretty unlikely.
Speaker 14: Okay, okay, okay, okay. Off the record. Then why do
Speaker 14: you think we're not winning?
Speaker 15: Because ninety percent of the country doesn't want us here
Speaker 15: and this sort of democracy were given them looks terrible.
Speaker 12: What if we sold it better?
Speaker 15: I wish it were that simple, trust me. But yeah, Look,
Speaker 15: don't get me wrong. I don't want to see the
Speaker 15: commies win. They're just bastards. But the whole country's a
Speaker 15: never ending surprise packet. You think you can read it,
Speaker 15: and then you get a curveball.
Speaker 2: In fact that.
Speaker 15: Let me tell you about the last curveball. The final
Speaker 15: day on patrol, we were clearing minds the French had
Speaker 15: left behind, and some VCS took us by surprise, both flanks,
Speaker 15: total ambush, took out our captain. We scattered and called
Speaker 15: for a huie, and then a whole bunch more started
Speaker 15: pouring out of the tunnels everywhere. Yeah, they've dug them
Speaker 15: all over the place. And I was ducking and running
Speaker 15: and this girl popped out of the ground in front
Speaker 15: of me. Oh, black Viat Cong gear pants, top for
Speaker 15: my pistol, but she already had hers aimed at my head.
Speaker 11: And then.
Speaker 3: Then it was so weird.
Speaker 8: Did you take her down?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I couldn't. Neither of us could because she.
Speaker 15: I mean we both.
Speaker 3: We could both feel it.
Speaker 8: We were like.
Speaker 15: Looking at ourselves.
Speaker 12: No, what do you mean?
Speaker 3: Have you still got that photo of two yet? Yeah?
Speaker 15: Who my half sister two yet? Dad had a daughter
Speaker 15: here with a Viet girl before we met Mom.
Speaker 8: Uh you slyile dull. There you go. She would have
Speaker 8: been about nineteen then, I mean she might have changed.
Speaker 3: No, she hasn't.
Speaker 14: It was definitely her your half sisters Viet Cong and
Speaker 14: you nearly killed each other.
Speaker 12: Now, I've really wanted an interview.
Speaker 9: Did you know she was VC?
Speaker 7: She dad?
Speaker 8: Not exactly, well, not for certain. But the last time
Speaker 8: we spoke.
Speaker 3: She she what what'd she say?
Speaker 1: The last time Joseph spoke to his daughter too Yet
Speaker 1: had been seven long years ago, on the morning of
Speaker 1: her mother Land's funeral procession in nineteen fifty six. Following tradition,
Speaker 1: a single bamboo flautist had led the way as the
Speaker 1: coffins of Land and her father were carried from the
Speaker 1: villa to the family tomb. Joseph had waited on the
Speaker 1: curb outside, and as everyone left the house, Madam Hugh
Speaker 1: had ignored him.
Speaker 10: But to yet you're not welcome, Joseph.
Speaker 9: I loved her.
Speaker 12: Too, Yet I don't care.
Speaker 10: You caused all her unhappiness. You shouldn't even be here.
Speaker 7: What do you mean?
Speaker 8: I'm your father, I mean all.
Speaker 12: Of you, not just you, all Americans.
Speaker 13: What are you even doing here?
Speaker 1: It's not your country.
Speaker 12: Just go home?
Speaker 8: No, I will, I am, But come with me, Yeah,
Speaker 8: come with You're half American too, Yet you know I'm
Speaker 8: not Oh, Okay, okay, well come back, you come back
Speaker 8: and see? Why not just try it? Yeah? Let me
Speaker 8: let me look look after you come back.
Speaker 13: And why do Americans think everyone wants to be American?
Speaker 10: You're all so self censored.
Speaker 12: I don't look at you as a father.
Speaker 8: But that can change. People can change too. Yet, let
Speaker 8: me try. I can try harder, it won't.
Speaker 12: There's the man I look at as a father.
Speaker 3: Who come.
Speaker 1: She led him to the back of the procession, where
Speaker 1: a thin bearded man walked alone. Kim Land's brother to
Speaker 1: Yette's uncle. He and Joseph had one spot together to
Speaker 1: defeat the Japanese, and he was now one of Hoji
Speaker 1: Minh's trusted deputies.
Speaker 9: How did you even.
Speaker 8: You wanted terrorists? If I call the police right now, would.
Speaker 16: You, though, Joseph, is that what you want to do?
Speaker 3: No? I know you.
Speaker 16: Could you have betrayed friends before?
Speaker 8: Well?
Speaker 16: Did Paul de Vroo ever discover how you betrayed him?
Speaker 9: With my sister?
Speaker 16: It's a complicated Did you ever have the courage to
Speaker 16: face that conversation?
Speaker 8: Betraying me?
Speaker 16: However, we mean betraying your daughter as well? Can you
Speaker 16: do that? I think not even Americans have a grain
Speaker 16: of loyalty to something to you. Please drive us say
Speaker 16: nothing no more, let us bury our beautiful lane.
Speaker 4: And then do it.
Speaker 16: It's coming with me, Come on, do it.
Speaker 9: Good Bye, Joseph.
Speaker 8: That was seven years ago now, but I remember thinking
Speaker 8: even then, how could too yet have possibly got a
Speaker 8: message to her uncle about her mother?
Speaker 15: She was already in the Viet Con Almost certainly my
Speaker 15: sister's the enemy.
Speaker 8: Wow, well, I suppose so politically. But on the other hand,
Speaker 8: you know, personally, I think it says a lot that
Speaker 8: neither of you could shoot the other. That is such
Speaker 8: a relief. And if you ever sat down together, you
Speaker 8: might even find you like each other. Not everyone's the enemy.
Speaker 14: Say that again. I've got no idea who the enemy is.
Speaker 14: I came out here thinking it was communism. But then
Speaker 14: you're backing a president who's locking up Buddhists and burning
Speaker 14: their temples.
Speaker 12: Do you really want to be on his side? I'm confused?
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too, now know me? Hi Todd, Oh, come on,
Speaker 3: we gotta go.
Speaker 11: Those demonstrators aren't going to the palace. They're stopping at
Speaker 11: Fandine from Boulevard.
Speaker 3: Why.
Speaker 11: I don't know, but something's happening gotta get there.
Speaker 8: Okay, Okay, well I suppose a pr to cover it too.
Speaker 12: Let's go then you're coming, Gary, Sure.
Speaker 2: I'm ahead.
Speaker 15: Hey, Nailmi, do you need a hand with your backpack?
Speaker 12: Thanks?
Speaker 14: Someone brought you up.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 15: Yeah, she was a good mom and he wasn't too
Speaker 15: bad either.
Speaker 8: You all right, Joseph, Yeah, you go ahead, I'll catch up.
Speaker 12: Yeah, what's happening, Todd? What's going on?
Speaker 14: Any idea?
Speaker 11: All I heard was they thought if they went to
Speaker 11: the Palace they'd just get bashed up by news special forces,
Speaker 11: so they've come here instead. I think you'll buy them
Speaker 11: time to protest properly.
Speaker 15: And what are they gonna do? Just sit here and
Speaker 15: chat it?
Speaker 11: Think they've got something planned?
Speaker 12: Okay, well let's get an intro. Where's a good spot here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 11: I've got the intersection behind you.
Speaker 8: Okay, made it. What's happening?
Speaker 11: Yeah, we're not sure to roll?
Speaker 12: Yeah, we shall get something to one.
Speaker 14: This is Naomi Howell for Movie Tone moments covering the
Speaker 14: demonstrations today on fanding Fun Boulevard.
Speaker 12: Hold On, hold On.
Speaker 14: A car has just stopped in the middle of the road.
Speaker 14: One of the monks is sitting on a cushion and
Speaker 14: two other monks.
Speaker 12: What are they pouring on him?
Speaker 8: What the hell is this about?
Speaker 12: He's holding matches, He's he's just lit.
Speaker 1: The Buddhist monk had dropped the match in his lap
Speaker 1: and was engulfed in flames.
Speaker 8: Oh my god, what.
Speaker 12: Are you getting this?
Speaker 3: Yet?
Speaker 14: He's not moving, he's showing. He's showing, no pain, no screaming, nothing.
Speaker 14: No one's trying to save him.
Speaker 12: He's he's he's burning to death.
Speaker 9: Oh God, there's.
Speaker 13: A fire coming to this country and it's going to
Speaker 13: bring out everything.
Speaker 1: Joseph Sherman just stared too. Yet had been right. A
Speaker 1: great fire had come to Vietnam. Within six months, Presidents
Speaker 1: DM and Kennedy would both be dead, and America's new President,
Speaker 1: Lyndon Johnson wasn't going to settle for sending advisors. The
Speaker 1: American war in Vietnam would soon overwhelm the world.
Speaker 5: Saigon is a production of Thoroughbred Studios, Goldhog Productions, and
Speaker 5: iHeart Podcasts starring Kelly, Marie Trann and Rob Benedict. Based
Speaker 5: on the best selling novel Cigon by Anthony Gray. It
Speaker 5: is created for audio by Greg Hadrick and Jeremy Fox.
Speaker 5: Written by Greg Hadrick and directed by John Scott Dryden.
Speaker 5: Original music is by Sasha Putnam, with additional performances by
Speaker 5: nor mgnir and Lettipic. Cheer editing and sound design is
Speaker 5: by Elouise Whitmore. The series producer is Emma Hern. The
Speaker 5: producer in Vietnam is Fatmungnhen. The executive producers are Jeremy Fox,
Speaker 5: Greg Hadrick, John Scott Dryden, Howard Stringer and Jason English