1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:25,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Looking back at my diary, Wednesday, February fifth, twenty 2 00:00:25,836 --> 00:00:29,716 Speaker 1: twenty was a fairly ordinary day. And by fairly ordinary, 3 00:00:29,836 --> 00:00:32,316 Speaker 1: I mean to say that my day was absolutely packed 4 00:00:32,716 --> 00:00:36,476 Speaker 1: to the brim, which makes sense because I don't just 5 00:00:36,516 --> 00:00:39,716 Speaker 1: have one amazing job. I have lots of them. I'm 6 00:00:39,756 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: a professor and a research scientist. I run one of 7 00:00:42,716 --> 00:00:45,636 Speaker 1: Yell's residential colleges, which means I have over four hundred 8 00:00:45,636 --> 00:00:48,116 Speaker 1: students to take care of all the time. I travel 9 00:00:48,116 --> 00:00:50,676 Speaker 1: a bunch for public lectures to spread the science of happiness. 10 00:00:51,196 --> 00:00:53,596 Speaker 1: I'm a manager to all my amazing staff, a colleague 11 00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:56,396 Speaker 1: to my science friends, and now I'm a podcaster too. 12 00:00:57,156 --> 00:00:59,236 Speaker 1: So how do I keep track of all these different roles. 13 00:01:00,116 --> 00:01:03,476 Speaker 1: My planner it's a small red notebook that I carry 14 00:01:03,476 --> 00:01:06,316 Speaker 1: with me everywhere. It's where I write out every single 15 00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:08,836 Speaker 1: commitment I have, including the time it starts and the 16 00:01:08,876 --> 00:01:12,356 Speaker 1: time it ends. My planner is like a precious friend. 17 00:01:12,996 --> 00:01:14,756 Speaker 1: It helps me keep track of what I need to 18 00:01:14,756 --> 00:01:17,276 Speaker 1: do every single day. And so I'm not looking in 19 00:01:17,356 --> 00:01:20,756 Speaker 1: my planner at the page for Wednesday, February fifth, twenty twenty, 20 00:01:21,076 --> 00:01:24,956 Speaker 1: which as usual, was completely packed. On that day, I 21 00:01:24,996 --> 00:01:27,716 Speaker 1: had some podcast, stuff to do at specific times, three 22 00:01:27,756 --> 00:01:31,556 Speaker 1: different student meetings, a staff meeting, and an important department talk, 23 00:01:32,356 --> 00:01:35,196 Speaker 1: after which I wrote, in very decisive all caps lettering 24 00:01:35,596 --> 00:01:39,556 Speaker 1: three forty five pm leave immediately. That was a note 25 00:01:39,596 --> 00:01:41,436 Speaker 1: to remind myself that I needed to get out of 26 00:01:41,436 --> 00:01:43,756 Speaker 1: that department talk a little early in order to make 27 00:01:43,756 --> 00:01:46,076 Speaker 1: it to the airport for my flight to DC that night. 28 00:01:46,876 --> 00:01:49,476 Speaker 1: That one was a very very hard stop. But on 29 00:01:49,516 --> 00:01:52,356 Speaker 1: this particular busy day, my morning got to begin with 30 00:01:52,436 --> 00:01:56,876 Speaker 1: a really exciting start. Eight am interview with Tom Hodgkinson, 31 00:01:57,276 --> 00:01:59,436 Speaker 1: one of my personal heroes. I'm here, but I can 32 00:01:59,516 --> 00:02:02,556 Speaker 1: only hear vea fenty I've admired Tom and his work 33 00:02:02,676 --> 00:02:06,236 Speaker 1: for years, very very quiet. I had scheduled Tom's interview 34 00:02:06,236 --> 00:02:08,756 Speaker 1: for a whole hour in my calendar, but with so 35 00:02:08,956 --> 00:02:11,116 Speaker 1: much to ask him, I was worried I wouldn't have 36 00:02:11,196 --> 00:02:13,836 Speaker 1: enough time. And by this point we were already ten 37 00:02:13,876 --> 00:02:16,356 Speaker 1: minutes into our time together and Tom couldn't hear me. 38 00:02:16,956 --> 00:02:19,196 Speaker 1: We tinkered with the mics and checked the phone connection. 39 00:02:19,596 --> 00:02:22,356 Speaker 1: I kept asking Tom, is my voice louder now? I'm 40 00:02:22,356 --> 00:02:25,396 Speaker 1: afraid not nay. As the time ticked away, I felt 41 00:02:25,396 --> 00:02:28,596 Speaker 1: my stress levels rising. It was already really difficult to 42 00:02:28,596 --> 00:02:31,316 Speaker 1: find a long enough slot for this interview, and so 43 00:02:31,516 --> 00:02:33,916 Speaker 1: I mean, should we push through and risk me being 44 00:02:33,996 --> 00:02:35,916 Speaker 1: late for all the rest of the stuff that day, 45 00:02:36,236 --> 00:02:38,516 Speaker 1: or should I try to reschedule for god knows when 46 00:02:39,196 --> 00:02:42,356 Speaker 1: I was starting to freak out, and then suddenly, yeah, 47 00:02:42,396 --> 00:02:45,716 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Yeah Tom could finally hear me, which 48 00:02:45,756 --> 00:02:48,156 Speaker 1: meant the interview I was most looking forward to this 49 00:02:48,196 --> 00:02:51,796 Speaker 1: season could begin. So what was the topic I was 50 00:02:51,876 --> 00:02:54,276 Speaker 1: so anxious to jump into with Tom? So talk to 51 00:02:54,316 --> 00:02:56,796 Speaker 1: me about your history of becoming an idler, Like what 52 00:02:56,916 --> 00:02:59,356 Speaker 1: drove you to that? Talk about kind of why you 53 00:02:59,436 --> 00:03:02,956 Speaker 1: decided to become more idle. I think I was born 54 00:03:03,116 --> 00:03:07,276 Speaker 1: fairly idle. I always had a strong will towards idling. 55 00:03:07,876 --> 00:03:12,036 Speaker 1: Yep idling, it's a pretty foreign concept, at least for me. 56 00:03:12,836 --> 00:03:15,356 Speaker 1: I tend to fill my day to the brim, mostly 57 00:03:15,356 --> 00:03:18,556 Speaker 1: with meaningful and interesting things. I always thought that was 58 00:03:18,596 --> 00:03:21,356 Speaker 1: what I was supposed to do, But it's gotten to 59 00:03:21,356 --> 00:03:24,036 Speaker 1: the point where my calendar is now so packed that 60 00:03:24,116 --> 00:03:26,276 Speaker 1: I sometimes feel like I'm drowning and all the stuff 61 00:03:26,276 --> 00:03:30,036 Speaker 1: I have to do. Maybe you can relate, But as 62 00:03:30,076 --> 00:03:32,436 Speaker 1: we'll see in this episode, if we really want to 63 00:03:32,436 --> 00:03:35,596 Speaker 1: improve our happiness, we need to learn to do well 64 00:03:36,196 --> 00:03:42,476 Speaker 1: a lot less. Our minds are constantly telling us what 65 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:44,636 Speaker 1: to do to be happy. But what if our minds 66 00:03:44,636 --> 00:03:46,996 Speaker 1: are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, 67 00:03:47,236 --> 00:03:49,596 Speaker 1: leading us away from what will really make us happy. 68 00:03:50,156 --> 00:03:52,356 Speaker 1: The good news is that understanding the science of the 69 00:03:52,356 --> 00:03:54,676 Speaker 1: mind can point us all back in the right direction. 70 00:03:55,156 --> 00:03:58,036 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santras. 71 00:04:04,276 --> 00:04:07,636 Speaker 1: Alarm clock. What a horrible invention. I mean, it's a 72 00:04:07,636 --> 00:04:10,436 Speaker 1: horrible way just thought the day. Get out of bed. 73 00:04:10,516 --> 00:04:13,396 Speaker 1: Come on, you're lazy. You're never gonna get anywhere. Tom 74 00:04:13,476 --> 00:04:17,676 Speaker 1: is obsessed with clocks because he absolutely despises them. In 75 00:04:17,716 --> 00:04:20,156 Speaker 1: his book How to Be Idle, Tom tells his readers 76 00:04:20,196 --> 00:04:22,436 Speaker 1: that to be happier, they need to throw away their 77 00:04:22,476 --> 00:04:24,756 Speaker 1: alarm clocks. I'm not one of those people who sort 78 00:04:24,796 --> 00:04:27,436 Speaker 1: of leaps out of bed the moment my eyes open. Yeah, 79 00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:29,076 Speaker 1: I can't wait to get on with my day. You know, 80 00:04:29,476 --> 00:04:32,636 Speaker 1: there's quite a lovely in between each states, in between 81 00:04:33,316 --> 00:04:35,356 Speaker 1: wake and sleep, when you're sort of half conscious of 82 00:04:35,356 --> 00:04:38,156 Speaker 1: your dreams. I think that's a lovely state to be in, 83 00:04:38,316 --> 00:04:41,956 Speaker 1: and a slower transition from sleep to wake, I think 84 00:04:42,076 --> 00:04:45,836 Speaker 1: is civilized. These days, clocks are everywhere, from our nightstands 85 00:04:45,876 --> 00:04:48,876 Speaker 1: to our laptops to our wrists. It's easy to forget 86 00:04:48,916 --> 00:04:51,356 Speaker 1: that watching the minutes of the day tick by is 87 00:04:51,396 --> 00:04:54,836 Speaker 1: actually a new development. In medieval times, to an extent, 88 00:04:54,916 --> 00:04:56,956 Speaker 1: they were masters of their own time, so they can 89 00:04:57,036 --> 00:04:58,676 Speaker 1: sort of do a bit of weaving, have a nap, 90 00:04:58,836 --> 00:05:00,916 Speaker 1: go into the vegetable garden, do a bit more weaving, 91 00:05:01,356 --> 00:05:04,636 Speaker 1: go to church and someone. Life back then was sometimes brutal, 92 00:05:05,196 --> 00:05:08,596 Speaker 1: but Tom thinks our pre industrial ancestors enjoyed something that 93 00:05:08,636 --> 00:05:12,116 Speaker 1: we've given up, a complete disregard for what hour it is. 94 00:05:12,796 --> 00:05:15,316 Speaker 1: For most of human history, it was pretty hard to 95 00:05:15,356 --> 00:05:18,276 Speaker 1: know the precise time. All medieval folks had was the 96 00:05:18,276 --> 00:05:28,916 Speaker 1: position of the sun. While that end, the bell would 97 00:05:28,916 --> 00:05:30,516 Speaker 1: signal the end of the kind of the shift into 98 00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:33,636 Speaker 1: fields or whatever. The chimes from the church tower meant 99 00:05:33,636 --> 00:05:36,036 Speaker 1: that it was time to put down your tools, time 100 00:05:36,036 --> 00:05:40,076 Speaker 1: to assemble together for worship or a meal, time to 101 00:05:40,116 --> 00:05:44,796 Speaker 1: think of something other than work. That is, until the 102 00:05:44,836 --> 00:05:49,436 Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution kicked in, the system changed. You became a 103 00:05:49,436 --> 00:05:53,156 Speaker 1: factory worker. The capitalist bought huge a bounts of machinery 104 00:05:53,156 --> 00:05:54,996 Speaker 1: and invested a net, and they had to keep this 105 00:05:55,036 --> 00:05:58,556 Speaker 1: machinery going well twenty four seven. Ideally, so the people 106 00:05:58,596 --> 00:06:00,436 Speaker 1: were told large stot about working at home. When you 107 00:06:00,516 --> 00:06:03,116 Speaker 1: feel like it, you know, time kind of weirdly becomes 108 00:06:03,116 --> 00:06:05,596 Speaker 1: a sort of like a sort of a tyrant. Tom 109 00:06:05,716 --> 00:06:08,756 Speaker 1: is like a resistance fighter at war with this tyrannical 110 00:06:08,796 --> 00:06:12,916 Speaker 1: cons time, and his primary weapon in the struggle is idling. 111 00:06:13,996 --> 00:06:17,836 Speaker 1: Idoling is the act of loafing, taking time to do nothing, 112 00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:23,596 Speaker 1: in particular, think long lunches, midday naps, tea time, taking 113 00:06:23,596 --> 00:06:27,796 Speaker 1: the scenic route, getting lost for no reason at all, daydreaming, 114 00:06:28,316 --> 00:06:31,996 Speaker 1: hanging with friends at the pub, long happy conversations that 115 00:06:32,076 --> 00:06:34,596 Speaker 1: run well past the time we probably should have gone 116 00:06:34,636 --> 00:06:38,636 Speaker 1: to bed. Tom encourages all of these. His books are 117 00:06:38,676 --> 00:06:42,036 Speaker 1: manifestos against the cult of productivity that many of us 118 00:06:42,076 --> 00:06:44,596 Speaker 1: grew up with. When you're not working, when you're reflecting, 119 00:06:44,596 --> 00:06:46,716 Speaker 1: when you're walking around the graves with your friends and 120 00:06:46,756 --> 00:06:50,316 Speaker 1: talking about art and love and philosophy and ideas, that's 121 00:06:50,356 --> 00:06:52,956 Speaker 1: when you're really living. And if we overwork, then you 122 00:06:53,036 --> 00:06:56,116 Speaker 1: neglect that very important part of life. I first learned 123 00:06:56,116 --> 00:06:58,996 Speaker 1: of Tom's work back in the early two thousands when 124 00:06:58,996 --> 00:07:01,756 Speaker 1: I myself had just started to neglect all these important 125 00:07:01,756 --> 00:07:04,516 Speaker 1: parts of life. At the time, I was an untenured 126 00:07:04,516 --> 00:07:07,796 Speaker 1: assistant professor, working all hours to get papers out and 127 00:07:07,916 --> 00:07:10,836 Speaker 1: my lab up and running. I had fully subscribed to 128 00:07:10,876 --> 00:07:13,916 Speaker 1: the philosophy that my generation inherited back from the days 129 00:07:13,916 --> 00:07:18,596 Speaker 1: of the Industrial Revolution, that productivity is king. The idea 130 00:07:18,636 --> 00:07:21,356 Speaker 1: of spending long hours walking around a grove with friends 131 00:07:21,436 --> 00:07:25,356 Speaker 1: talking about art and philosophy. I mean, that seemed incredibly foreign, 132 00:07:25,796 --> 00:07:29,676 Speaker 1: almost unattainable, but if I was being honest, it also 133 00:07:29,716 --> 00:07:32,876 Speaker 1: sounded kind of amazing. I think it's one of the 134 00:07:32,916 --> 00:07:35,836 Speaker 1: reasons I was first drawn to Tom's books. To devote 135 00:07:35,876 --> 00:07:37,716 Speaker 1: a good portion of each day or each week to 136 00:07:37,796 --> 00:07:40,676 Speaker 1: idling is actually very very good for you, for your health, 137 00:07:40,716 --> 00:07:42,676 Speaker 1: for your mental health, your physical health, for the health 138 00:07:42,676 --> 00:07:44,876 Speaker 1: of your friends. That doesn't mean to say that you 139 00:07:44,916 --> 00:07:47,476 Speaker 1: don't work or you don't enjoy working. In fact, I 140 00:07:47,876 --> 00:07:49,916 Speaker 1: would probably like to find something that they would like 141 00:07:49,956 --> 00:07:53,036 Speaker 1: to do anyway and make it into their work. The problem, 142 00:07:53,076 --> 00:07:55,676 Speaker 1: according to Tom, is when the urge to work makes 143 00:07:55,716 --> 00:07:58,716 Speaker 1: us a slave to the clock, when we completely lose 144 00:07:58,876 --> 00:08:01,836 Speaker 1: any free time whatsoever, so we're all content looking at 145 00:08:01,836 --> 00:08:04,196 Speaker 1: our watches like The White Rabbit and Lewis Carroll's Alice 146 00:08:04,236 --> 00:08:07,676 Speaker 1: in Wonderland. Late late, I'm very late, completely unable to 147 00:08:07,756 --> 00:08:09,996 Speaker 1: live in the moment. You read these things on Twitter 148 00:08:10,076 --> 00:08:12,356 Speaker 1: saying hey guys, sorry, but you know, if you're twenty 149 00:08:12,396 --> 00:08:14,396 Speaker 1: six and you're not working crazy hours, you're not going 150 00:08:14,436 --> 00:08:17,116 Speaker 1: to get anywhere. I think that's so wrong. Work in 151 00:08:17,196 --> 00:08:20,876 Speaker 1: itself is not good. And that's one idea that I 152 00:08:20,956 --> 00:08:22,916 Speaker 1: want to fight, is this idea that because any kind 153 00:08:22,956 --> 00:08:25,516 Speaker 1: of hard work is morally good. Tom worries that our 154 00:08:25,596 --> 00:08:28,516 Speaker 1: modern ethos of productivity is turning all of us into 155 00:08:28,596 --> 00:08:32,556 Speaker 1: unfortunate workhorses, the kind that great literature has long warned 156 00:08:32,596 --> 00:08:35,196 Speaker 1: us about. In animal farm, we have the example of 157 00:08:35,276 --> 00:08:38,276 Speaker 1: the horse boxer, who, when faced with the problem, says, 158 00:08:38,396 --> 00:08:42,996 Speaker 1: work harder, work, harder, work until he works himself into 159 00:08:43,116 --> 00:08:46,956 Speaker 1: an early grave. He's taken off to the glue factory. Now, 160 00:08:47,076 --> 00:08:51,756 Speaker 1: that to me is a that's a warning overwork causes stress, 161 00:08:52,196 --> 00:08:56,436 Speaker 1: heart disease. It obviously is bad for family life, bad 162 00:08:56,476 --> 00:08:59,676 Speaker 1: for your relationships, and who is it good for for you? 163 00:08:59,836 --> 00:09:02,076 Speaker 1: For your ego, for your boss to make more money. 164 00:09:02,436 --> 00:09:05,116 Speaker 1: You know, when you start to analyze these concepts, like 165 00:09:05,476 --> 00:09:07,756 Speaker 1: the work ethic, they start to dissolve. So I'm trying 166 00:09:07,756 --> 00:09:09,836 Speaker 1: to look at things from a from point of view. 167 00:09:10,756 --> 00:09:12,996 Speaker 1: Tom tries to live his entire life in accordance with 168 00:09:13,076 --> 00:09:16,996 Speaker 1: these beliefs, but many people find his suggestions deeply challenging. 169 00:09:17,796 --> 00:09:21,236 Speaker 1: At times, his ideas can sound like a radical religious ideology. 170 00:09:21,996 --> 00:09:26,476 Speaker 1: It's not laziness to create free time for yourself. It's 171 00:09:26,516 --> 00:09:28,836 Speaker 1: actually a mark of nobility. It brings you closer to 172 00:09:29,196 --> 00:09:32,316 Speaker 1: the gods. Actually, because when you start to realize where 173 00:09:32,316 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 1: this stuff comes from, it comes from the people in power. 174 00:09:35,316 --> 00:09:37,116 Speaker 1: I don't want to sound two Marxists, but it comes 175 00:09:37,156 --> 00:09:39,276 Speaker 1: from the owners of capital. It comes from the owners 176 00:09:39,316 --> 00:09:41,756 Speaker 1: of the means of production. They want to enslave us. 177 00:09:42,716 --> 00:09:45,596 Speaker 1: We've got to break free of these chains, William Blake. 178 00:09:45,676 --> 00:09:49,756 Speaker 1: He talked about the mind forged manacles. Okay, we've created 179 00:09:49,796 --> 00:09:51,916 Speaker 1: a situation with our own minds, and we can use 180 00:09:51,956 --> 00:09:55,516 Speaker 1: our own minds to break free of these manacles. As 181 00:09:55,556 --> 00:09:57,916 Speaker 1: I talked to Tom for this interview and reflected on 182 00:09:57,996 --> 00:10:00,796 Speaker 1: how stressed I'd been about my schedule just minutes before, 183 00:10:01,556 --> 00:10:04,676 Speaker 1: I got really sad. It's now been over a decade 184 00:10:04,716 --> 00:10:07,596 Speaker 1: since I first encountered Tom's work, and I'm still not 185 00:10:07,716 --> 00:10:11,516 Speaker 1: listening to his advice. If anything, I've become even more 186 00:10:11,636 --> 00:10:14,596 Speaker 1: trapped in those mind forged manacles he talks about, that 187 00:10:14,836 --> 00:10:18,436 Speaker 1: ethos of productivity at all costs. I mean, don't get 188 00:10:18,476 --> 00:10:21,196 Speaker 1: me wrong, I'm really grateful for all the career opportunities 189 00:10:21,236 --> 00:10:24,236 Speaker 1: that keep me so busy, especially this podcast, which I 190 00:10:24,276 --> 00:10:28,956 Speaker 1: absolutely adore. But I'm also really really overworked. I don't 191 00:10:28,956 --> 00:10:31,916 Speaker 1: admit it much, but I feel overwhelmed all of time. 192 00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:34,636 Speaker 1: I can't remember the last time I took a real 193 00:10:34,756 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 1: vacation or had even a moment to just be idle 194 00:10:38,396 --> 00:10:41,556 Speaker 1: for the sake of being idle, let alone trapes across 195 00:10:41,556 --> 00:10:45,316 Speaker 1: a grove talking about philosophy. There's not a single entry 196 00:10:45,356 --> 00:10:48,196 Speaker 1: in my red planner that says just do nothing. And 197 00:10:48,396 --> 00:10:51,396 Speaker 1: all of this makes me feel incredibly guilty, because as 198 00:10:51,436 --> 00:10:54,076 Speaker 1: the host of this podcast, I'm supposed to know better. 199 00:10:54,996 --> 00:10:57,556 Speaker 1: Usually I'm pretty good at following the advice I share 200 00:10:57,596 --> 00:10:59,956 Speaker 1: with you, but this is one domain where I'm really 201 00:10:59,996 --> 00:11:03,076 Speaker 1: screwing things up. And honestly, I don't even know what 202 00:11:03,196 --> 00:11:05,436 Speaker 1: to do to make my schedule less hectic these days. 203 00:11:06,476 --> 00:11:09,156 Speaker 1: But as I always say, when all else fails, you 204 00:11:09,196 --> 00:11:12,396 Speaker 1: should turn to science. After the break, we'll do just that. 205 00:11:13,276 --> 00:11:15,636 Speaker 1: You'll hear what feeling this busy does to your mental 206 00:11:15,716 --> 00:11:19,436 Speaker 1: health and to your relationships, and we'll see that having 207 00:11:19,476 --> 00:11:22,116 Speaker 1: an extra bit of free time is more valuable for 208 00:11:22,196 --> 00:11:26,756 Speaker 1: our well being than our lying minds often think. Right, 209 00:11:27,196 --> 00:11:29,996 Speaker 1: gotta go. The happiness lab will be back in a moment. 210 00:11:42,556 --> 00:11:45,556 Speaker 1: Time affluence this feeling of whether or not we have 211 00:11:45,756 --> 00:11:47,956 Speaker 1: enough time to do all of the things that we 212 00:11:48,076 --> 00:11:50,836 Speaker 1: want to do or have to do. This is Ashley Willins, 213 00:11:51,116 --> 00:11:53,436 Speaker 1: a professor at Harvard Business School an author of the 214 00:11:53,556 --> 00:11:56,556 Speaker 1: upcoming book Time Smart, How to Reclaim your Time and 215 00:11:56,676 --> 00:12:00,236 Speaker 1: live a happier life. Ashley is another one of my heroes. 216 00:12:00,796 --> 00:12:03,796 Speaker 1: Instead of looking at whether we have objectively sort of 217 00:12:04,356 --> 00:12:07,196 Speaker 1: enough hours in a day, we're looking at subjectively whether 218 00:12:07,276 --> 00:12:10,636 Speaker 1: people feel like they have enough time. Time affluence is 219 00:12:10,676 --> 00:12:14,116 Speaker 1: one of my favorite scientific concepts because it's the opposite 220 00:12:14,156 --> 00:12:17,156 Speaker 1: of what I experience on a near daily basis. My 221 00:12:17,316 --> 00:12:20,996 Speaker 1: calendar never feels open. My subjective feeling is one of 222 00:12:21,076 --> 00:12:25,476 Speaker 1: extreme business. What researchers like Ashley have christened time famine. 223 00:12:25,996 --> 00:12:30,076 Speaker 1: People today are feeling increasingly pressed for time. Increasingly time 224 00:12:30,236 --> 00:12:33,436 Speaker 1: poor such that they feel like they have too many 225 00:12:33,596 --> 00:12:36,316 Speaker 1: things to do and not enough time in the day 226 00:12:36,356 --> 00:12:39,676 Speaker 1: to do it. And it's interesting because there's also this 227 00:12:39,836 --> 00:12:42,956 Speaker 1: data suggesting that we objectively have more time today than 228 00:12:42,996 --> 00:12:46,316 Speaker 1: we used to. So subjective feelings of time stress are 229 00:12:46,396 --> 00:12:49,796 Speaker 1: going up, while the objective amount of time that we 230 00:12:49,956 --> 00:12:52,796 Speaker 1: have is actually going up as well. So why do 231 00:12:52,876 --> 00:12:55,036 Speaker 1: we fail to notice the extra minutes we all have 232 00:12:55,276 --> 00:12:59,196 Speaker 1: each day? The reason, according to science is that nowadays 233 00:12:59,236 --> 00:13:01,676 Speaker 1: are free time tends to be broken up into tiny 234 00:13:01,796 --> 00:13:06,356 Speaker 1: chunks or time confetti, So we have more time confetti 235 00:13:06,476 --> 00:13:09,556 Speaker 1: now than we used to. That leisure time is or attic, 236 00:13:09,676 --> 00:13:13,876 Speaker 1: it's scattered because we're constantly connected to our phones. We're 237 00:13:13,916 --> 00:13:17,396 Speaker 1: trying to do many many different tasks, and our attention 238 00:13:17,516 --> 00:13:20,196 Speaker 1: is being pulled in many directions. So the feelings I'm 239 00:13:20,236 --> 00:13:22,676 Speaker 1: trying to pack in all of this stuff being pulled 240 00:13:22,716 --> 00:13:25,556 Speaker 1: in all these directions during our free time can make 241 00:13:25,636 --> 00:13:28,316 Speaker 1: us feel more pressed for time. I definitely get the 242 00:13:28,396 --> 00:13:31,596 Speaker 1: concept of time confetti in my own life because even 243 00:13:31,676 --> 00:13:34,316 Speaker 1: when I get a break, it never feels like a break. 244 00:13:34,956 --> 00:13:37,156 Speaker 1: I'll be lounging and watching TV, and I'll get a 245 00:13:37,236 --> 00:13:39,956 Speaker 1: stressful text about work, or I'll be in the middle 246 00:13:39,996 --> 00:13:42,316 Speaker 1: of an otherwise enjoyable dinner chat when I get this 247 00:13:42,436 --> 00:13:45,756 Speaker 1: anxious urge to do a quick email check. Even lunch, 248 00:13:46,196 --> 00:13:48,396 Speaker 1: a time my idol Tom says should be reserved for 249 00:13:48,476 --> 00:13:51,516 Speaker 1: conversation that often ends up being a time that I 250 00:13:51,596 --> 00:13:54,796 Speaker 1: spend alone trying to quickly scratch a few things off 251 00:13:54,836 --> 00:13:57,996 Speaker 1: that to do list. Sure, I wind up getting more done. 252 00:13:58,516 --> 00:14:00,756 Speaker 1: I mean, it feels like I'm being productive and clearing 253 00:14:00,836 --> 00:14:03,756 Speaker 1: things off my plate. But ashle these research has shown 254 00:14:03,956 --> 00:14:05,876 Speaker 1: that it's taking more of a toll on me than 255 00:14:05,956 --> 00:14:09,916 Speaker 1: I realize. These feelings of time stress as time comes 256 00:14:09,956 --> 00:14:13,116 Speaker 1: at a cost of happiness. In some Gallipold poll data 257 00:14:13,196 --> 00:14:16,356 Speaker 1: that we analyze with two point five million Americans, we 258 00:14:16,516 --> 00:14:20,316 Speaker 1: found that this feeling of time famine had a worse 259 00:14:20,476 --> 00:14:24,436 Speaker 1: impact on happiness than being unemployed. So it seems to 260 00:14:24,516 --> 00:14:28,636 Speaker 1: have dramatic consequences for our subjective well being. The problem, though, 261 00:14:28,956 --> 00:14:31,756 Speaker 1: is that people don't realize the consequences of time poverty 262 00:14:31,836 --> 00:14:35,396 Speaker 1: are so great, and so we constantly make individual choices 263 00:14:35,756 --> 00:14:38,756 Speaker 1: that make our time famine even worse. People who have 264 00:14:38,916 --> 00:14:43,116 Speaker 1: more job flexibility, more paid vacations in their workplace are 265 00:14:43,396 --> 00:14:46,116 Speaker 1: happier with their jobs, are more satisfied and less likely 266 00:14:46,196 --> 00:14:48,196 Speaker 1: to leave. But when you ask people would you rather 267 00:14:48,276 --> 00:14:50,796 Speaker 1: have job A and Job A makes more salary or 268 00:14:50,796 --> 00:14:53,596 Speaker 1: a job B and job B has more paid vacation 269 00:14:53,676 --> 00:14:56,436 Speaker 1: and less salary, people always go for job A. If 270 00:14:56,436 --> 00:14:58,996 Speaker 1: you've listened to other episodes of the Happiness Lab, you 271 00:14:59,116 --> 00:15:01,996 Speaker 1: know that many of us equate happiness with having more money, 272 00:15:02,836 --> 00:15:05,076 Speaker 1: which means that most of us want to work more 273 00:15:05,116 --> 00:15:08,356 Speaker 1: and more in order to earn more and more. But 274 00:15:08,476 --> 00:15:11,116 Speaker 1: that trade off of giving up time for money winds 275 00:15:11,196 --> 00:15:14,516 Speaker 1: up resulting in less and less time affluence, which often 276 00:15:14,636 --> 00:15:18,396 Speaker 1: means less and less happiness. It's a pretty stupid strategy, 277 00:15:18,956 --> 00:15:21,116 Speaker 1: but it's also one that Ashley has found many of 278 00:15:21,236 --> 00:15:25,596 Speaker 1: us employ all the time. We think that prioritizing money 279 00:15:25,636 --> 00:15:28,236 Speaker 1: and working lot is a status symbol, so we think 280 00:15:28,276 --> 00:15:30,316 Speaker 1: if we seem really busy, that's going to confer us 281 00:15:30,436 --> 00:15:32,636 Speaker 1: higher status, and it's one of the reasons that we 282 00:15:32,716 --> 00:15:36,476 Speaker 1: don't focus on time take paid vacation, and instead focus 283 00:15:36,556 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 1: a lot on working. The connection between business and status 284 00:15:40,436 --> 00:15:42,516 Speaker 1: means that even people who have the money to buy 285 00:15:42,596 --> 00:15:44,996 Speaker 1: a little free time often choose not to do so. 286 00:15:45,516 --> 00:15:48,156 Speaker 1: Even some of the wealthiest people We've studied, people with 287 00:15:48,476 --> 00:15:52,596 Speaker 1: two million dollars sitting in the bank are still focusing 288 00:15:52,636 --> 00:15:55,516 Speaker 1: on money at the expense of time. Ashley's also found 289 00:15:55,676 --> 00:15:57,996 Speaker 1: that as we feel our day is getting fuller and fuller, 290 00:15:58,516 --> 00:16:00,996 Speaker 1: we don't make time for activities that can reduce our stress, 291 00:16:01,596 --> 00:16:04,796 Speaker 1: like hanging out with friends or making new ones. We 292 00:16:05,436 --> 00:16:09,036 Speaker 1: have a paper showing that even just this general prioritization 293 00:16:09,716 --> 00:16:12,916 Speaker 1: of money over time means that we're less likely to 294 00:16:13,116 --> 00:16:16,116 Speaker 1: interact with a pier. So we spend eighteen percent less 295 00:16:16,156 --> 00:16:19,156 Speaker 1: time interacting, and we know that these small social moments 296 00:16:19,196 --> 00:16:21,596 Speaker 1: are some of the happiest in our day. These results 297 00:16:21,676 --> 00:16:25,396 Speaker 1: got me thinking about why I'm so busy. Ironically, it's 298 00:16:25,436 --> 00:16:28,316 Speaker 1: not because I'm focused on money or status. It's because 299 00:16:28,356 --> 00:16:31,476 Speaker 1: I'm focused on people. I wind up saying yes to 300 00:16:31,516 --> 00:16:34,036 Speaker 1: too many things because I don't want to disappoint anyone, 301 00:16:34,756 --> 00:16:37,636 Speaker 1: either my colleagues, or my students or even you, dear 302 00:16:37,676 --> 00:16:40,876 Speaker 1: podcast listener. But putting too much stuff on my plate 303 00:16:41,036 --> 00:16:45,316 Speaker 1: means becoming even more time famished. I'm seeing lots of people, sure, 304 00:16:45,796 --> 00:16:48,076 Speaker 1: but am I really spending any quality time with any 305 00:16:48,116 --> 00:16:51,036 Speaker 1: of them? I explain this jumble of feelings to Ashley, 306 00:16:51,876 --> 00:16:54,876 Speaker 1: I was surprised that my hero was experiencing pretty much 307 00:16:54,956 --> 00:16:58,796 Speaker 1: the same thing you're tunneling. You're just literally it feels 308 00:16:58,796 --> 00:17:01,836 Speaker 1: like survival. I'm having this day to day. I just 309 00:17:01,996 --> 00:17:04,716 Speaker 1: taught to classes and had two hours of office hours. 310 00:17:05,076 --> 00:17:06,916 Speaker 1: All I'm thinking about is when am I going to 311 00:17:07,036 --> 00:17:09,636 Speaker 1: drink water? When is my next nap? I don't have 312 00:17:09,716 --> 00:17:12,596 Speaker 1: the cognitive resources to also think about how am I 313 00:17:12,636 --> 00:17:14,476 Speaker 1: going to connect with a friend who hasn't been doing 314 00:17:14,636 --> 00:17:19,916 Speaker 1: very well. Back in the nineteen seventies, researchers John Darley 315 00:17:19,996 --> 00:17:22,996 Speaker 1: and Daniel Batson ran a test to see why people 316 00:17:23,156 --> 00:17:26,396 Speaker 1: help others. Was being nice a function of a person's 317 00:17:26,436 --> 00:17:30,356 Speaker 1: personality or did it depend on the situation. To test 318 00:17:30,396 --> 00:17:33,796 Speaker 1: these questions, they chose a population known for being do gooders, 319 00:17:34,396 --> 00:17:38,316 Speaker 1: students at the Princeton Theological Seminary. Darley and Batson figure 320 00:17:38,396 --> 00:17:41,316 Speaker 1: the students training to be priests were probably prone to 321 00:17:41,396 --> 00:17:43,996 Speaker 1: being nice to other people, and so the researchers told 322 00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:46,836 Speaker 1: these subjects that they needed to deliver a public sermon 323 00:17:47,116 --> 00:17:50,996 Speaker 1: about Jesus's story of the Good Samaritan. In this parable, 324 00:17:51,116 --> 00:17:53,876 Speaker 1: a man is beaten, robbed, and left unconscious on the street. 325 00:17:54,676 --> 00:17:58,436 Speaker 1: Several people, including a priest, passed by without stopping, but 326 00:17:58,636 --> 00:18:01,516 Speaker 1: one person, the Good Samaritan, took pity on the victim. 327 00:18:02,236 --> 00:18:04,156 Speaker 1: He helped a man up and even brought him to 328 00:18:04,236 --> 00:18:07,996 Speaker 1: an inn to eat and rest. The Samaritan, Jesus explains, 329 00:18:08,276 --> 00:18:10,676 Speaker 1: is the guy we're also post to Emily. He's the 330 00:18:10,756 --> 00:18:14,156 Speaker 1: one that's going to heaven. The seminary students all knew 331 00:18:14,196 --> 00:18:16,556 Speaker 1: the tale well, so having to give a sermon on 332 00:18:16,636 --> 00:18:20,436 Speaker 1: that topic should have been mildly stressful but relatively straightforward, 333 00:18:21,276 --> 00:18:24,396 Speaker 1: and that's when Darley and Batson up the stakes. All 334 00:18:24,476 --> 00:18:26,396 Speaker 1: of the students had to head a cross campus to 335 00:18:26,476 --> 00:18:29,636 Speaker 1: another building to give the talk. One group was told 336 00:18:29,676 --> 00:18:31,876 Speaker 1: that their sermon would happen later that day, so they 337 00:18:31,956 --> 00:18:34,796 Speaker 1: had plenty of time to get there. A second group 338 00:18:34,916 --> 00:18:37,116 Speaker 1: was told that they'd make it in time, but only 339 00:18:37,156 --> 00:18:40,276 Speaker 1: if they set off immediately. But a third group was 340 00:18:40,356 --> 00:18:43,516 Speaker 1: told that they were already late. They needed to sprint 341 00:18:43,596 --> 00:18:46,836 Speaker 1: over there right away, and that's when Darli and Batson 342 00:18:46,996 --> 00:18:50,116 Speaker 1: had a surprise for the men. They basically staged an 343 00:18:50,156 --> 00:18:53,916 Speaker 1: experimental version of the Good Samaritan story. They hired an 344 00:18:53,956 --> 00:18:56,516 Speaker 1: actor to pretend to be injured on the ground who 345 00:18:56,596 --> 00:18:59,116 Speaker 1: was blocking a narrow part of the route. The students 346 00:18:59,156 --> 00:19:02,076 Speaker 1: would literally have to physically step over the actor's writhing 347 00:19:02,116 --> 00:19:05,036 Speaker 1: body in order to make it past. So what did 348 00:19:05,116 --> 00:19:07,716 Speaker 1: a little time famine due to the student's willingness to help? 349 00:19:08,396 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: The results were really striking. Sixty three percent of the 350 00:19:11,956 --> 00:19:14,396 Speaker 1: students who had time to spare stop to help the 351 00:19:14,436 --> 00:19:18,876 Speaker 1: hurt stranger, which honestly is already pretty bad. That means 352 00:19:19,076 --> 00:19:22,156 Speaker 1: over a third of trainee priests basically stepped over a 353 00:19:22,196 --> 00:19:25,196 Speaker 1: guy lying hurt on the street. But what happened when 354 00:19:25,196 --> 00:19:28,276 Speaker 1: subjects were in a mad hurry. Only ten percent of 355 00:19:28,316 --> 00:19:32,076 Speaker 1: them stopped to help. Ninety percent of the subjects completely 356 00:19:32,196 --> 00:19:35,436 Speaker 1: ignored an obviously injured person on the street because they 357 00:19:35,476 --> 00:19:38,316 Speaker 1: were rushing to give a sermon about how Jesus said 358 00:19:38,356 --> 00:19:40,516 Speaker 1: you should stop to help injured people on the street. 359 00:19:41,436 --> 00:19:46,116 Speaker 1: When we're time famished, we become crappy people. When people 360 00:19:46,156 --> 00:19:48,836 Speaker 1: are thinking about the economic value of their time, when 361 00:19:48,876 --> 00:19:52,076 Speaker 1: they're thinking about being hyper efficient with every second, this 362 00:19:52,276 --> 00:19:55,316 Speaker 1: comes at a cost of our willingness to take time 363 00:19:55,396 --> 00:19:58,916 Speaker 1: out of our day to help others, to volunteer to 364 00:19:59,076 --> 00:20:02,236 Speaker 1: do something as simple as recycle a piece of scrap 365 00:20:02,276 --> 00:20:05,236 Speaker 1: paper in the lab, something that takes ten fifteen seconds 366 00:20:05,276 --> 00:20:08,356 Speaker 1: to do. Ashley actually has experimental data to back up 367 00:20:08,396 --> 00:20:11,276 Speaker 1: this last point. She had students cut up sheets of 368 00:20:11,316 --> 00:20:14,476 Speaker 1: paper for a construction project. She told them they could 369 00:20:14,516 --> 00:20:16,796 Speaker 1: either throw their scraps away in a nearby trash can 370 00:20:17,436 --> 00:20:19,196 Speaker 1: or walk a few feet outside the room to a 371 00:20:19,316 --> 00:20:23,316 Speaker 1: recycling bin. In this first control condition, forty one percent 372 00:20:23,396 --> 00:20:26,876 Speaker 1: of the students opted to recycle. But Ashley also tested 373 00:20:26,916 --> 00:20:30,516 Speaker 1: another experimental group in which she first had subjects write 374 00:20:30,556 --> 00:20:33,676 Speaker 1: down how many hours they expected to work after graduation 375 00:20:34,276 --> 00:20:38,196 Speaker 1: and then calculate their hourly pay rate. What happened to 376 00:20:38,276 --> 00:20:42,236 Speaker 1: recycling In this experimental group, only twelve percent made the 377 00:20:42,316 --> 00:20:46,556 Speaker 1: extra effort required. Policymakers should take note here. Have you 378 00:20:46,676 --> 00:20:49,476 Speaker 1: ever considered that giving people more time will help them 379 00:20:49,516 --> 00:20:52,596 Speaker 1: become better, greener citizens. What we really need to do 380 00:20:53,076 --> 00:20:55,276 Speaker 1: is to solve time poverty so that people can have 381 00:20:55,716 --> 00:20:59,916 Speaker 1: more cognitive resources and also just a more outward focus 382 00:21:00,356 --> 00:21:02,316 Speaker 1: so that we're not just simply trying to solve our 383 00:21:02,356 --> 00:21:04,516 Speaker 1: own time scarcity and get from point eight to point 384 00:21:04,556 --> 00:21:06,676 Speaker 1: be in our lives, or we're able to have these 385 00:21:06,836 --> 00:21:09,276 Speaker 1: self transcendent values and think about how can I use 386 00:21:09,356 --> 00:21:12,476 Speaker 1: my time to benefit others, which raises a big question, 387 00:21:13,316 --> 00:21:16,436 Speaker 1: how can we fight time poverty? What can people like 388 00:21:16,596 --> 00:21:19,796 Speaker 1: me do to feel a little more time affluent. We'll 389 00:21:19,796 --> 00:21:23,116 Speaker 1: tackle those important questions when the Happiness Lab returns in 390 00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:31,156 Speaker 1: a moment. I would get up at eight with the 391 00:21:31,236 --> 00:21:33,796 Speaker 1: kids or seven thirty. Then I would sit down in 392 00:21:33,916 --> 00:21:36,956 Speaker 1: my study at nine o'clock and I wouldn't leave until 393 00:21:37,036 --> 00:21:39,876 Speaker 1: one pm. So I would do four straight hours of 394 00:21:40,036 --> 00:21:43,076 Speaker 1: work and that was it. Welcome to the typical day 395 00:21:43,156 --> 00:21:46,876 Speaker 1: of time affluents Guru Tom Hodgkinson. I was struck that 396 00:21:46,956 --> 00:21:50,436 Speaker 1: Tom's day involved both less in more idoling than I'd expected, 397 00:21:50,956 --> 00:21:54,396 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. After lunch, I would go into 398 00:21:54,436 --> 00:21:57,836 Speaker 1: the garden, go for walk, sleep, my children would come 399 00:21:57,876 --> 00:22:00,556 Speaker 1: back from school, would do dinner. I'd have a couple 400 00:22:00,636 --> 00:22:03,316 Speaker 1: of beers and read books in the evening, go to 401 00:22:03,396 --> 00:22:06,236 Speaker 1: bed sort of fairly early ten or eleven. That was great, 402 00:22:06,356 --> 00:22:07,916 Speaker 1: And you know that was a four hour working down. 403 00:22:08,436 --> 00:22:12,076 Speaker 1: Often days off for trips and so on, so that 404 00:22:12,236 --> 00:22:15,596 Speaker 1: was lovely. Tom is super time affluent, but he isn't 405 00:22:15,636 --> 00:22:18,636 Speaker 1: some bum who never gets anything done. He's an incredibly 406 00:22:18,636 --> 00:22:22,476 Speaker 1: accomplished writer with six best selling books, and that doesn't 407 00:22:22,516 --> 00:22:25,636 Speaker 1: even include his ukulele handbook. The problem with being an 408 00:22:25,676 --> 00:22:27,596 Speaker 1: idol actually is that you can end up working quite hard. 409 00:22:27,636 --> 00:22:29,196 Speaker 1: I mean, I get a lot of cristicism from our 410 00:22:29,196 --> 00:22:31,716 Speaker 1: readers saying, well, you seem to work quite hard, Tom, 411 00:22:31,756 --> 00:22:34,156 Speaker 1: you because you're quite productive. And I think that's because 412 00:22:34,396 --> 00:22:36,236 Speaker 1: you know, you give yourself lots of thinking time, and 413 00:22:36,316 --> 00:22:38,476 Speaker 1: then you start having creative ideas and then you want 414 00:22:38,476 --> 00:22:40,396 Speaker 1: to carry them out, and you know it takes some 415 00:22:40,476 --> 00:22:42,476 Speaker 1: work to actually make them happen. And so I asked 416 00:22:42,516 --> 00:22:46,116 Speaker 1: Tom for some advice, practical tips that would actually work 417 00:22:46,196 --> 00:22:50,356 Speaker 1: with my busy professor. Lifestyle practical tips. Okay, please, you 418 00:22:50,876 --> 00:22:53,596 Speaker 1: take an hour off for lunch and talk to people. 419 00:22:54,196 --> 00:22:57,036 Speaker 1: I sheepishly admitted to Tom that I pretty rarely take 420 00:22:57,076 --> 00:22:59,916 Speaker 1: a lunch break that doesn't involve checking my email. Overwork 421 00:22:59,956 --> 00:23:03,076 Speaker 1: can drag you backwards. Take your lunch break a full, 422 00:23:03,276 --> 00:23:07,036 Speaker 1: uninterrupted meal break with proper conversation already was seeming like 423 00:23:07,156 --> 00:23:09,996 Speaker 1: the stuff of fantasy. But then Tom up the ante 424 00:23:10,156 --> 00:23:13,076 Speaker 1: with an even more indulgent afternoon activity. Ideally to have 425 00:23:13,116 --> 00:23:15,716 Speaker 1: a short nap after lunch. I mean I personally find 426 00:23:15,756 --> 00:23:18,036 Speaker 1: that time between two and four. I mean, I'm completely dead. 427 00:23:18,116 --> 00:23:20,676 Speaker 1: I could get quite depressed. I can't think, I'm so tired, 428 00:23:21,116 --> 00:23:23,476 Speaker 1: and then I wake up again at four a two 429 00:23:23,516 --> 00:23:27,516 Speaker 1: hour siesta. Yeah, that basically sounds kind of impossible for me. 430 00:23:28,556 --> 00:23:30,316 Speaker 1: Tom was horrified when he learned that I had a 431 00:23:30,356 --> 00:23:32,876 Speaker 1: flight later that day and that I planned to spend 432 00:23:32,916 --> 00:23:35,716 Speaker 1: most of that travel time working. Travel time is a gift. 433 00:23:36,236 --> 00:23:37,996 Speaker 1: In the old days, you couldn't work. We didn't have 434 00:23:38,596 --> 00:23:40,836 Speaker 1: Wi Fi and stuff, and so it was a lovely 435 00:23:40,876 --> 00:23:42,556 Speaker 1: opportunity just to gaze out of the window. But you 436 00:23:42,596 --> 00:23:46,316 Speaker 1: could still do that planes, trains, automobiles, you know, sit 437 00:23:46,396 --> 00:23:49,796 Speaker 1: in the back, star up the window, unplug, you know, 438 00:23:49,996 --> 00:23:52,916 Speaker 1: or read a book, a real actual book, and sleep 439 00:23:52,996 --> 00:23:56,436 Speaker 1: and days. Even walking along the road is supposed to 440 00:23:56,436 --> 00:23:58,356 Speaker 1: be a sort of self improving activity because you put 441 00:23:58,396 --> 00:24:01,756 Speaker 1: your headphones on and plug into some kind of inspirational podcast. 442 00:24:02,516 --> 00:24:05,956 Speaker 1: What I mean, Okay, this is a good podcast. Listen 443 00:24:05,996 --> 00:24:08,716 Speaker 1: to your one. Tom's point isn't to cancel your happiness 444 00:24:08,756 --> 00:24:13,316 Speaker 1: labs description like, seriously, don't do that. Tom's point is 445 00:24:13,356 --> 00:24:15,276 Speaker 1: just that we need to find some time when it 446 00:24:15,316 --> 00:24:18,156 Speaker 1: feels like we're not working or desperately trying to cramp 447 00:24:18,236 --> 00:24:20,436 Speaker 1: things in. Give a gift to yourself of that time. 448 00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:23,916 Speaker 1: It's completely free, it doesn't cost anything. It could really 449 00:24:23,956 --> 00:24:27,916 Speaker 1: have incalculable benefits feel mental health. I was so thankful 450 00:24:27,956 --> 00:24:32,356 Speaker 1: to hear Tom's suggestions, but realistically, I wasn't totally sure 451 00:24:32,436 --> 00:24:34,836 Speaker 1: his advice was going to work for my level of 452 00:24:34,916 --> 00:24:38,116 Speaker 1: time famine. I mean, I can shoot for longer email 453 00:24:38,156 --> 00:24:41,156 Speaker 1: free lunches, but napping for hours a day is not 454 00:24:41,316 --> 00:24:45,076 Speaker 1: really practical for my situation. And if I'm being honest, 455 00:24:45,676 --> 00:24:48,596 Speaker 1: it's also unlikely that I'll leave my laptop totally switched 456 00:24:48,636 --> 00:24:51,476 Speaker 1: off on my next flight. I started to worry that 457 00:24:51,596 --> 00:24:54,636 Speaker 1: Tom's recommendations were a bit too advance from my level 458 00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:57,996 Speaker 1: of time famine. I needed to start with some beginner tips, 459 00:24:58,596 --> 00:25:00,956 Speaker 1: sort of a time affluence for dummies kind of thing. 460 00:25:01,556 --> 00:25:04,716 Speaker 1: So I turned to my other hero, Ashley Willins. She's 461 00:25:04,716 --> 00:25:07,436 Speaker 1: an academic just like me, so I figured that she 462 00:25:07,596 --> 00:25:12,076 Speaker 1: might have some more applicable advice. As usual, I was 463 00:25:12,156 --> 00:25:13,996 Speaker 1: in a rush to get straight to the point. So 464 00:25:14,076 --> 00:25:17,476 Speaker 1: you're a super busy Harvard professors who teaches about time. 465 00:25:17,836 --> 00:25:20,756 Speaker 1: Feels a little bit ironic, But my life sometimes feels 466 00:25:20,876 --> 00:25:23,836 Speaker 1: very ironic. Yess, So, how are you actually putting this 467 00:25:23,876 --> 00:25:27,756 Speaker 1: stuff into effect in your own life. I'm trying and 468 00:25:28,036 --> 00:25:30,956 Speaker 1: sometimes failing. Yeah, I feel like I'm grasping at straws 469 00:25:31,036 --> 00:25:34,796 Speaker 1: sometimes to try to keep it all together. It wasn't 470 00:25:34,836 --> 00:25:37,476 Speaker 1: exactly the guru level of time mastery I was hoping for, 471 00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:40,716 Speaker 1: but I also admired Ashley's honesty. One thing that I 472 00:25:40,836 --> 00:25:43,836 Speaker 1: did structurally in my life as I cut my commute 473 00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:46,956 Speaker 1: time to basically zero, I pay a lot of money 474 00:25:47,036 --> 00:25:49,676 Speaker 1: and rent, but I can walk to the office. So 475 00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:53,156 Speaker 1: I'm not only buying myself time each and every day, 476 00:25:53,316 --> 00:25:55,116 Speaker 1: but I can also spend that time in ways that 477 00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:59,036 Speaker 1: are good for happiness, like walking, enjoying the scenery. I 478 00:25:59,156 --> 00:26:01,676 Speaker 1: take in a lot of sunrises walking across the bridge 479 00:26:01,716 --> 00:26:03,956 Speaker 1: to work, And I think that's one thing that I've 480 00:26:04,036 --> 00:26:07,036 Speaker 1: done that I've noticed has dramatically improved the quality of 481 00:26:07,156 --> 00:26:10,356 Speaker 1: my life. So Ashley exchanges in the form of rent 482 00:26:10,756 --> 00:26:13,756 Speaker 1: for less time wasted on adult commute. She also used 483 00:26:13,796 --> 00:26:17,996 Speaker 1: her other expenditures in the same way, like housecleaning, grocery delivery. 484 00:26:18,156 --> 00:26:20,876 Speaker 1: It turns out the allocating more of your available budget 485 00:26:20,916 --> 00:26:24,796 Speaker 1: to these services can substantially increase your time affluence. If 486 00:26:24,836 --> 00:26:27,276 Speaker 1: you spend money in a typical month to outsource dislike 487 00:26:27,356 --> 00:26:30,236 Speaker 1: task to others, therefore buying back some of your time 488 00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:33,356 Speaker 1: or at least buying more positive moments. We see that 489 00:26:33,436 --> 00:26:35,836 Speaker 1: that is a good predictor of happiness for people all 490 00:26:35,876 --> 00:26:38,636 Speaker 1: across the income spectrum. The richest people that we've studied 491 00:26:38,676 --> 00:26:40,756 Speaker 1: people living kind of at or even slightly below the 492 00:26:40,796 --> 00:26:43,916 Speaker 1: poverty line. Paying someone to do your dislike tasks can 493 00:26:43,956 --> 00:26:46,236 Speaker 1: also provide a much needed boost to your social life. 494 00:26:46,436 --> 00:26:48,916 Speaker 1: When you outsource something you don't like, you not only 495 00:26:49,076 --> 00:26:51,076 Speaker 1: get to spend more time with people you care about, 496 00:26:51,156 --> 00:26:53,316 Speaker 1: but you're less thinking about all these other things you 497 00:26:53,436 --> 00:26:56,076 Speaker 1: have to do while you're socializing, and so it buys 498 00:26:56,196 --> 00:26:58,956 Speaker 1: us out of some of this dread, this anticipation of 499 00:26:59,076 --> 00:27:01,996 Speaker 1: having to come home from a nice social event on 500 00:27:02,076 --> 00:27:04,196 Speaker 1: the weekend and have a million chores to do before 501 00:27:04,196 --> 00:27:07,036 Speaker 1: the workweek starts. And we've also started looking at the 502 00:27:07,156 --> 00:27:11,276 Speaker 1: effects of time saving services is housecleaning someone to mow 503 00:27:11,356 --> 00:27:15,076 Speaker 1: your lawn on relationship statisfaction, and we have some findings 504 00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:19,276 Speaker 1: suggesting that couples who make a concerted effort to outsource 505 00:27:19,436 --> 00:27:23,836 Speaker 1: in a typical month experience greater relationship satisfaction because they're 506 00:27:23,916 --> 00:27:27,796 Speaker 1: less negatively impacted by daily stressors, and that effect on 507 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:31,876 Speaker 1: relationship satisfaction is just about as good as having a 508 00:27:31,956 --> 00:27:35,396 Speaker 1: partner who's a really good listener. All of this sounds great, 509 00:27:35,636 --> 00:27:37,356 Speaker 1: but I bet some of you are thinking the same 510 00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:40,356 Speaker 1: thing I was. Is this a strategy everyone can use? 511 00:27:40,876 --> 00:27:43,276 Speaker 1: Or is this just for wealthy Harvard professors who can 512 00:27:43,276 --> 00:27:45,916 Speaker 1: afford a housecleaner? I get this question a lot. Isn't 513 00:27:45,916 --> 00:27:48,436 Speaker 1: this just for rich people? Most of us listening at 514 00:27:48,516 --> 00:27:51,356 Speaker 1: least are lucky enough to have some discretionary income at 515 00:27:51,396 --> 00:27:53,836 Speaker 1: our disposal. So then we want to start thinking, well, 516 00:27:53,916 --> 00:27:56,476 Speaker 1: five one hundred dollars a month, two hundred dollars a month, 517 00:27:56,516 --> 00:27:59,036 Speaker 1: three hundred dollars a month, how can I start thinking 518 00:27:59,116 --> 00:28:01,956 Speaker 1: about spending that money in a way that might best 519 00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:04,236 Speaker 1: promote my happiness? And there are small things that we 520 00:28:04,316 --> 00:28:07,076 Speaker 1: can all do around the margins. One example might be 521 00:28:07,476 --> 00:28:10,756 Speaker 1: higher the neighbor's kid to mow your lawn. That might 522 00:28:10,796 --> 00:28:14,636 Speaker 1: not cost very much money. Getting takeout. Takeout can be 523 00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:18,076 Speaker 1: one way of saving time, but interestingly, we often don't 524 00:28:18,156 --> 00:28:20,996 Speaker 1: think about takeout in that way. So we show in 525 00:28:21,116 --> 00:28:23,476 Speaker 1: some of our studies that some of the happiness benefit 526 00:28:23,556 --> 00:28:25,636 Speaker 1: of these time saving purchases that we make on a 527 00:28:25,716 --> 00:28:29,316 Speaker 1: regular basis. Some of that benefit is actually from just 528 00:28:29,516 --> 00:28:32,476 Speaker 1: thinking that you're saving time and then spending that time 529 00:28:32,556 --> 00:28:35,516 Speaker 1: in a more deliberate way. So you could, even if 530 00:28:35,596 --> 00:28:37,356 Speaker 1: you don't want to change the way that you're spending 531 00:28:37,876 --> 00:28:39,796 Speaker 1: sit down and look at your purchases that you make 532 00:28:39,836 --> 00:28:42,636 Speaker 1: in a typical month and say, hey, when I made 533 00:28:42,676 --> 00:28:45,316 Speaker 1: that takeout purchase, I actually was saving time that I 534 00:28:45,436 --> 00:28:48,396 Speaker 1: wasn't spending on cooking. What did I do with that time? 535 00:28:48,916 --> 00:28:52,036 Speaker 1: And next week when I buy that fast food, could 536 00:28:52,076 --> 00:28:53,796 Speaker 1: I be spending that time I would have spent cooking 537 00:28:53,836 --> 00:28:56,236 Speaker 1: in a better way. So part of the benefit is 538 00:28:56,316 --> 00:28:59,316 Speaker 1: just removing negative tasks that you don't like. And part 539 00:28:59,356 --> 00:29:02,236 Speaker 1: of the benefit of time saving is being more deliberate 540 00:29:02,316 --> 00:29:06,316 Speaker 1: with the free time that you've gained. The idea of 541 00:29:06,396 --> 00:29:08,476 Speaker 1: being more deliberate with how we think about our time 542 00:29:08,636 --> 00:29:12,396 Speaker 1: is critical. Remember, time affluence isn't the objective amount of 543 00:29:12,436 --> 00:29:15,156 Speaker 1: free time you have, the actual number of open blocks 544 00:29:15,156 --> 00:29:18,156 Speaker 1: in your calendar. It's your subjective sense that you have 545 00:29:18,276 --> 00:29:20,476 Speaker 1: some free time, and that means you can do a 546 00:29:20,556 --> 00:29:23,356 Speaker 1: lot to boost your sense of time affluence, even if 547 00:29:23,396 --> 00:29:26,236 Speaker 1: in reality you can't really open up that much actual 548 00:29:26,316 --> 00:29:29,476 Speaker 1: free time. It's just the sense of giving yourself a 549 00:29:29,596 --> 00:29:32,516 Speaker 1: bit of a break that makes all the difference, even 550 00:29:32,556 --> 00:29:35,036 Speaker 1: if the amount of time you actually gain is small. 551 00:29:36,036 --> 00:29:38,476 Speaker 1: I saw this first hand in my Happiness class when 552 00:29:38,476 --> 00:29:40,756 Speaker 1: I first introduced my Yale students to the concept of 553 00:29:40,836 --> 00:29:45,236 Speaker 1: time affluence. With hard classes, demanding extracurriculars, and an intent 554 00:29:45,396 --> 00:29:49,476 Speaker 1: social life, Yale students feel incredibly time famished pretty much 555 00:29:49,516 --> 00:29:51,876 Speaker 1: all the time, so I decided to give them a 556 00:29:51,916 --> 00:29:54,716 Speaker 1: booster shot of time affluence by surprising them with a 557 00:29:54,796 --> 00:29:58,636 Speaker 1: canceled class one spring day. Students came to lecture expecting 558 00:29:58,676 --> 00:30:00,636 Speaker 1: to be in class for an hour and fifteen minutes, 559 00:30:01,196 --> 00:30:03,556 Speaker 1: but when they arrived, my teaching assistants were handing out 560 00:30:03,596 --> 00:30:06,396 Speaker 1: flyers explaining that I was giving students a bit of 561 00:30:06,476 --> 00:30:10,236 Speaker 1: time affluence by canceling class that day. The students were 562 00:30:10,316 --> 00:30:13,276 Speaker 1: ecstatic they finally had a bit of free time. Some 563 00:30:13,436 --> 00:30:16,676 Speaker 1: even started streaming and jumping up and down. Others just 564 00:30:16,756 --> 00:30:21,316 Speaker 1: seemed incredibly relieved. One woman even burst into tears, announcing 565 00:30:21,356 --> 00:30:23,796 Speaker 1: it was the first free hour she's had all semester. 566 00:30:24,876 --> 00:30:28,476 Speaker 1: But my student's joy demonstrates this important feature of time affluents. 567 00:30:29,036 --> 00:30:31,916 Speaker 1: It doesn't take all that much to feel incredibly good. 568 00:30:32,796 --> 00:30:35,476 Speaker 1: My yalies were only given an hour and fifteen minutes free, 569 00:30:35,996 --> 00:30:38,956 Speaker 1: but at the time it fell like years. Many of 570 00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:41,476 Speaker 1: them even used that free hour to do something really fun. 571 00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:44,276 Speaker 1: They hung out with friends over bubble teas or went 572 00:30:44,356 --> 00:30:46,676 Speaker 1: for a short hike, which shows one of the most 573 00:30:46,716 --> 00:30:50,116 Speaker 1: important features of using our time affluments well. In the 574 00:30:50,236 --> 00:30:52,676 Speaker 1: rare cases when we get free time, we need to 575 00:30:52,796 --> 00:30:56,156 Speaker 1: use it wisely. This is something I really struggle with 576 00:30:56,836 --> 00:30:59,236 Speaker 1: because I do get little blasts of free time confetti 577 00:30:59,316 --> 00:31:02,196 Speaker 1: here and there. There are lots of unexpected changes as 578 00:31:02,196 --> 00:31:06,076 Speaker 1: an academic meetings, canceled talks that wrap up earlier than predicted, 579 00:31:06,276 --> 00:31:09,516 Speaker 1: appointments with people who never show. I usually use those 580 00:31:09,556 --> 00:31:11,916 Speaker 1: free moments to do a quick social media check or 581 00:31:11,996 --> 00:31:15,036 Speaker 1: dig into my email, but actually argues that I should 582 00:31:15,076 --> 00:31:18,236 Speaker 1: plan to use those little time windfalls a lot more effectively. 583 00:31:19,676 --> 00:31:22,316 Speaker 1: How can we start claiming back some of these windfalls, 584 00:31:22,516 --> 00:31:25,276 Speaker 1: to really think about them in this more deliberate way, 585 00:31:25,716 --> 00:31:28,556 Speaker 1: so that these small pockets of time that we do 586 00:31:29,076 --> 00:31:31,956 Speaker 1: receive in our everyday lives feel more like a game 587 00:31:32,436 --> 00:31:35,156 Speaker 1: and therefore might be more likely to increase our happiness. 588 00:31:35,436 --> 00:31:37,276 Speaker 1: Have you done this in your own life? Are there 589 00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:39,676 Speaker 1: specific tips you use when you have a meeting canceled 590 00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:42,796 Speaker 1: or have a small time windfall? Yeah? So, I actually 591 00:31:43,316 --> 00:31:46,876 Speaker 1: have started to keep a time windfall list of if 592 00:31:46,956 --> 00:31:49,556 Speaker 1: I have small pockets of five minutes and ten minutes, 593 00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:53,716 Speaker 1: what are some life things, Not work things, not emails. 594 00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:57,036 Speaker 1: Those will always be there, But some small positive life 595 00:31:57,116 --> 00:31:59,556 Speaker 1: things that I can do with those windfalls. Send a 596 00:31:59,636 --> 00:32:03,636 Speaker 1: letter of gratitude, call my mom, reach out to a 597 00:32:03,756 --> 00:32:05,876 Speaker 1: friend from grad school I haven't talked to in a while. 598 00:32:06,156 --> 00:32:09,356 Speaker 1: And I write those in my agenda. And I don't 599 00:32:09,356 --> 00:32:11,476 Speaker 1: always get to all of them, but I do get 600 00:32:11,516 --> 00:32:14,076 Speaker 1: to some of them. And I think that doing this 601 00:32:14,236 --> 00:32:17,156 Speaker 1: research has made me a little bit more strategic about 602 00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:19,596 Speaker 1: not squandering the small moments that all of us find 603 00:32:19,636 --> 00:32:23,476 Speaker 1: ourselves with on a daily basis. Making this episode hasn't 604 00:32:23,516 --> 00:32:26,276 Speaker 1: completely cured my sense of time famine, but it has 605 00:32:26,356 --> 00:32:29,436 Speaker 1: helped a lot. I've started my own time winfall list. 606 00:32:30,036 --> 00:32:31,956 Speaker 1: I want to connect more with friends I haven't seen 607 00:32:31,996 --> 00:32:35,156 Speaker 1: in a while, and take more opportunities to express gratitude 608 00:32:35,156 --> 00:32:37,796 Speaker 1: to the people I care about. I also want to 609 00:32:37,836 --> 00:32:40,076 Speaker 1: take time to be more mindful, and so I'm going 610 00:32:40,156 --> 00:32:42,116 Speaker 1: to try to use some of those free fifteen minute 611 00:32:42,116 --> 00:32:45,796 Speaker 1: blocks for a quick meditation and some deep breaths. And 612 00:32:45,916 --> 00:32:48,076 Speaker 1: in honor of Tom, I promised to spend at least 613 00:32:48,076 --> 00:32:50,476 Speaker 1: a few minutes gazing out the window on my next flight. 614 00:32:51,076 --> 00:32:53,316 Speaker 1: But most of all, making this episode has caused me 615 00:32:53,396 --> 00:32:55,596 Speaker 1: to realize that I'm not helping the people I care 616 00:32:55,636 --> 00:32:58,596 Speaker 1: about by packing my schedule to the brim. Hearing the 617 00:32:58,716 --> 00:33:01,476 Speaker 1: science has caused me to reflect on the negative impact 618 00:33:01,556 --> 00:33:04,076 Speaker 1: my time famine is having on the people I care 619 00:33:04,116 --> 00:33:07,236 Speaker 1: about most. It also made me worry about the person 620 00:33:07,276 --> 00:33:09,036 Speaker 1: I could become if I don't carve out a bit 621 00:33:09,236 --> 00:33:13,036 Speaker 1: more free time. So, Happiness Lab listeners, I'm making a 622 00:33:13,116 --> 00:33:15,156 Speaker 1: public commitment to all of you that I plan to 623 00:33:15,236 --> 00:33:18,476 Speaker 1: prioritize my own time affluence, and I hope you will too. 624 00:33:19,316 --> 00:33:22,116 Speaker 1: As I said before, you don't need to unsubscribe from 625 00:33:22,116 --> 00:33:26,396 Speaker 1: your favorite podcast. Seriously, don't do that. Even just making 626 00:33:26,476 --> 00:33:28,836 Speaker 1: the most of small time windfalls can bump up your 627 00:33:28,876 --> 00:33:32,116 Speaker 1: mood and maybe, just maybe it might even make you 628 00:33:32,356 --> 00:33:47,316 Speaker 1: a better person. The Happiness Lab is co written and 629 00:33:47,396 --> 00:33:50,716 Speaker 1: produced by Ryan Dilley. Our original music was composed by 630 00:33:50,796 --> 00:33:54,796 Speaker 1: Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing and mastering by Evan Viola. 631 00:33:55,196 --> 00:33:58,716 Speaker 1: Pete Naton also helped with production. Joseph Friedman checked our 632 00:33:58,756 --> 00:34:01,436 Speaker 1: facts and our editing was done by Sophie Crane mckiven. 633 00:34:01,756 --> 00:34:05,116 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Meil the Belle, Carl mcgliori, Heather Fame, 634 00:34:05,476 --> 00:34:09,956 Speaker 1: Julia Barton, Maggie Taylor, Maya Kanig, Jacob Weisburg, and my agent, 635 00:34:10,116 --> 00:34:12,836 Speaker 1: Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by 636 00:34:12,876 --> 00:34:15,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and me Doctor Laurie Santos