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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen CSI Miami, Because I have and

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Speaker 1: it's incredible. And one actress that is especially incredible is

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Speaker 1: Eva LaRue. Now, what you may not know is that

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Speaker 1: this screen star and her little daughter have been stalked,

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Speaker 1: stalked with threats to rape and kill her, to rape

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Speaker 1: her little daughter. I have a daughter. I think I'd

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Speaker 1: lose my mind if someone said that to me about

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Speaker 1: my daughter or my son. And how did she live

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Speaker 1: for twelve years with this threat hanging over her and

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Speaker 1: get up and perform in front of the camera and

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Speaker 1: raise her child the way that she did. This woman

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Speaker 1: has got to have nerves of steel for Pete's sake.

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Speaker 1: Imancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series XM one

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Speaker 1: eleven twelve years. This woman, this star stalked by a

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Speaker 1: maniac threatening unspeakable acts or not only her but her

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Speaker 1: little girl. Take a listen to Eva on Access. The

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Speaker 1: letters started coming just totally out of the blue and

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Speaker 1: they would detail the most grotesque, deviant, nightmarish detail. He

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Speaker 1: was going to disembowel and dismember us both slowly. He

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Speaker 1: was going to kidnap my then five year old and myself.

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Speaker 1: I was a single mom of time, and that he

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Speaker 1: was gonna hold us hostage, keep us as sex slaves.

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Speaker 1: He was obsessed with impregnating my baby. Okay whoa Okay,

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Speaker 1: I obsessed with raping and impregnating her baby, girdle, holding

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Speaker 1: her hostage, and keeping her and her daughter as sex slaves.

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Speaker 1: That was Eva speaking to Access joining me right now

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Speaker 1: and all star panel of a guest but special guest,

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Speaker 1: Evil LaRue, Emmy Award winning actress. You can find her

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Speaker 1: at evil LaRue dot com. She's also on Insta and Twitter. Eva.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't know why if I should try

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Speaker 1: to rush toward you to get your autograph or hug

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Speaker 1: you and pat your back and tell you how sorry

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Speaker 1: I am after everything you've been through. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: read your story, but what really got me is the

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Speaker 1: threats on your daughter. I cannot even imagine that happening.

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Speaker 1: When did this whole thing start? This this whole thing

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Speaker 1: started in two thousand and seven, Um, when I got

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Speaker 1: the very first letter. But you're absolutely right, Like the

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Speaker 1: the only job that we have as parents is to

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Speaker 1: keep our children safe, and when that is taken away

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Speaker 1: from you by all counts um and every day you

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Speaker 1: don't know if you can keep your only child, say

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Speaker 1: you you you feel like you've completely you complete, completely failed.

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Speaker 1: It's one it's one thing when it's talking threats are

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Speaker 1: coming to you, that has its own, um terroristic fear

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Speaker 1: that comes with it, you know, every every day. But

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Speaker 1: when it's when it's aimed at your daughter, your baby girl,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it's all started happening when she's five.

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Speaker 1: Now she's twenty, but so her entire um, you know,

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Speaker 1: for me to um you know, her her entire growing up,

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Speaker 1: she's had this fear, of this anxiety. Although she didn't

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Speaker 1: know what was in the letters when she was little,

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Speaker 1: I still had to make her very aware of keeping

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Speaker 1: her head on a swivel, of knowing as much as

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Speaker 1: she could that there are people out there that might

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Speaker 1: want to take her, that might want to take me,

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Speaker 1: that you know, that they're threatening us. But I never

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Speaker 1: let her know what was in the letters until much

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Speaker 1: later when she was a team. And even so, she

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Speaker 1: didn't find out about some of the most famous things

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Speaker 1: he wanted to do to us until we were actually

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Speaker 1: in the courtroom that day, because I didn't want those

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Speaker 1: her perseperating on that her entire life, you know, and

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Speaker 1: during her formulative bleak years, even LaRue Star c Sign

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Speaker 1: Miami and so much more. I'm just trying to get

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Speaker 1: my mind around what you must have thought when you

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Speaker 1: got the first letter. Were they not signed by quote

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Speaker 1: Freddie Krueger they were? I think I think he thought

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Speaker 1: that was funny. I think he thought that was a joke.

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Speaker 1: There were many of the letters that said, you know

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Speaker 1: you're a CSI come find me taunting you. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friend Mario Lopez. We all know Mario

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Speaker 1: at Access Listen. Most of the stalker's threats are far

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Speaker 1: too vile to share on television, and they eventually began

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Speaker 1: to mention Eva's young daughter, Kaya, who was only five

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Speaker 1: years old at the time, stating, I would think you

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Speaker 1: would want to stop me for your daughter, c You

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Speaker 1: should be very scared of me, you know. Very often Eva,

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Speaker 1: My children, my twins John Damn Lucy are old enough

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Speaker 1: to go online now and they have gone on and

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Speaker 1: they said, Mom, why did this person say this about you?

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Speaker 1: It'll be like you're ugly, why are you on TV?

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Speaker 1: Or I hate you should die? And I try to say, listen,

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Speaker 1: you know what they're always people. They're gonna hate you

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Speaker 1: and dislike you no matter what you know. And they say, Mom,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to fight the bag, as I know. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. That's not Everybody doesn't see you the

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Speaker 1: way you see yourself, ignored, they don't even know you.

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Speaker 1: Just forget it, because in life you're going to have

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Speaker 1: to deal with people that bully, try to bully you,

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Speaker 1: or threaten you, or make you feel bad or But

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Speaker 1: when you got that letter, that first letter, did you think, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll never meet him, I'll never see him in person,

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Speaker 1: or did you think, wow, this is a real threat.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, No, I thought immediately it was a

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Speaker 1: real threat. I had no idea where he was, where

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Speaker 1: the letter was coming from. I didn't know if he

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Speaker 1: lived down the street. I didn't know if he was

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Speaker 1: already following me. I didn't know if I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what he knew about me, like where I worked, where

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Speaker 1: she went to school. We didn't know anything, and that

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Speaker 1: was where the greatest fear was, and we were constantly

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Speaker 1: looking over our shoulder. We didn't know if he was

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Speaker 1: going to show up on the doorstep at any at

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Speaker 1: any moment. At the time, David Carusoe had to stalker

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Speaker 1: and Emily Procter had a sto and their stalkers. They

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Speaker 1: knew who their stalkers were, not that that was better.

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Speaker 1: That's the problem with stalking. It's such an amorphous. There's

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Speaker 1: so many gradations of it, right, and it's each person's

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Speaker 1: story is so very different. David Carusoe stalker lived in Europe,

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Speaker 1: was madly in love with him, and when he didn't,

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Speaker 1: you know, respond to any of her letters, she started saying,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to blow up your house. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: kidnap your kid from college. I'm going to hold her

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Speaker 1: hostage until you come and like, marry me and love me.

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Speaker 1: And she ended up being put on the no fly zone.

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Speaker 1: But this went on for months. A month, he was

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Speaker 1: scared to death. He was scared to emil A. Proctor,

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Speaker 1: her stalker showed up to her house, walked in her house,

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Speaker 1: but was a nice, kindly stalker. So it was it

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Speaker 1: didn't you know, nobody was too worried for her, which

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Speaker 1: is shocking because people, I mean, as you know, for

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Speaker 1: all the stories, people go from being a nice, kindly

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Speaker 1: peeping tom to a murderer in not much time. I

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Speaker 1: had one of my I guess health place talker was

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Speaker 1: the stereotypical. He thought I was sending him messages over

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Speaker 1: the airwaves, and I didn't think much of it until

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Speaker 1: he showed up in the lobby of CNN in New

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Speaker 1: York with his suitcase us to start our life together.

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Speaker 1: This was after I was married and had the twins. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen again to our friend, a Mario Lopez.

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Speaker 1: She's beloved for her role as Maria Santos on All

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Speaker 1: My Children and as Detective Natalia boa Vista on the

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Speaker 1: hit show CSI Miami. Eva played a DNA analyst, which

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Speaker 1: became a cruel irony when she started receiving letters from

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Speaker 1: a stalker during her second full season in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven, and the FBI was unable to determine who

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Speaker 1: was sending them. Okay, that kind of stumps me right there.

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Speaker 1: Let me go out to Stephen Kramer, a former FBI

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Speaker 1: now lawyer president Indigo Solutions. Steven, when you get a

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Speaker 1: written letter like Eva LaRue did well many of them.

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Speaker 1: We can't find out where the postmarks from. Get DNA

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Speaker 1: off the stamp, nothing, no fingerprints. Oh of course you could.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that was one of the things that was

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Speaker 1: done early on in this particular case is getting the

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Speaker 1: DNA off of the envelopes, off of the stamps, and

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Speaker 1: the FBI was able to get DNA and they took

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Speaker 1: that DNA, they put it into the National DNA Index System,

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Speaker 1: which is called, as you probably know, the CODAS system,

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Speaker 1: and there was no hit and it went on for

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Speaker 1: ten years like that. Where do you think they got

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Speaker 1: the DNA off the stamp, Steven I believe it was

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Speaker 1: off the stamp on some of the letters, or off

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Speaker 1: the envelope. Some of the envelopes didn't have DNA on it,

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Speaker 1: and so they have to get it from a different envelope.

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Speaker 1: But actually they got dozens of samples. There were thirty

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Speaker 1: seven letters, right Evah, No, and there were more than that.

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Speaker 1: Somebody said that there was really, yeah, there was. Somebody

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Speaker 1: reported that there is thirty seven, but there's been some

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Speaker 1: inaccuracies in some of the reports. But yeah, no, there

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Speaker 1: were there were more than one hundred letters that came

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Speaker 1: over twelve years. Oh my stars. Yeah, let's go out

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Speaker 1: to Stephen Bush joining me. Former FBI Special Agent and

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Speaker 1: CEO of Indago Solutions. Steven Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I guess when these now over one hundred letters came

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, we didn't have touched DNA. Yeah, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that's right. The DNA was taken off of these letters

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Speaker 1: from the licked portion of the envelopes in most cases

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Speaker 1: and in some cases from the stamps. And if Steve

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Speaker 1: Kramer mentioned already, each time those profiles, they were str profiles,

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Speaker 1: the ones that go into codas. The FBI put those

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Speaker 1: profiles into codas, and that produced what we call a

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Speaker 1: case to case match. So what it told us was

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Speaker 1: it said, Hey, the same guy that sent the first

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Speaker 1: letter sent the second, and the third and the fourth,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know his identity. We don't know who

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Speaker 1: that person is because his identity is not in coodus

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Speaker 1: although his DnaA got it. You put his DNA in

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Speaker 1: basically off the stamps on the sunderplus letters of threats

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Speaker 1: to Eva. But he obviously either hadn't been arrested or

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Speaker 1: had a government job where he had to give DNA,

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Speaker 1: so you couldn't get a match. I get it, I

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Speaker 1: get it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Eva LaRue joining

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Speaker 1: me as you heard earlier, star on all my children

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Speaker 1: on CSI Miami. It goes on and on all of

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Speaker 1: her hits, but yet she was stalked all these years

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Speaker 1: and her daughter. For all of you out there listening

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Speaker 1: now that have been stalked, think about it. Here we

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Speaker 1: have this glamorous Hollywood star and evil with FBI consultants.

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Speaker 1: This guy is hard to stop evil. What were the

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Speaker 1: original threats in the letters? I heard Mario Lopez say

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Speaker 1: he couldn't even say them on TV. And how did

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Speaker 1: they develop over the next hundred letters? You know, right

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Speaker 1: out of the gate they were They were really horrifyingly

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Speaker 1: deviant and evil, I mean, and they would even talk

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Speaker 1: about um, Satanic rituals and you know, marrying us both

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Speaker 1: in and holding us um the hostage of sex slaves

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Speaker 1: and impregnating my daughter and then um and then in

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Speaker 1: in literally nightmarish detail, talk about how he was going

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Speaker 1: to you know, continually rape and then disembowel and dismember

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Speaker 1: my daughter in front of me and then do the

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Speaker 1: same to me. So it just it would it would

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Speaker 1: seemed to always be some variation on the thing every

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Speaker 1: single letter. Were they coming to your office or your home? Initially,

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Speaker 1: the very first letter went to my manager's office. He

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Speaker 1: didn't have my home address, thank god at the time,

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Speaker 1: and they were going to my manager's office, and then

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Speaker 1: eventually he found my home. When when it first happened,

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Speaker 1: I was so scared. I was literally I was absolutely terrified.

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Speaker 1: And I had a couple of weeks left at that

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Speaker 1: point at the SI Miami before we went on hiatus

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Speaker 1: that year, and the second we went on hiatus, a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine said, you know what I've got. I

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Speaker 1: have a house outside the country and we're going to

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Speaker 1: be there this summer. Just come stay with us as

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Speaker 1: long as you want. I took my daughter when we

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Speaker 1: fled the country. That's how scared I was. I just

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Speaker 1: I packed everything up and we fled the country and

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Speaker 1: we were gone for a couple of months. I was

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Speaker 1: just hoping it's something they like, he might show himself

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Speaker 1: in some way that somebody, local law enforcement could catch him,

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Speaker 1: anybody could catch him. But that was not the case.

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Speaker 1: So when I came back to work, I hired me security.

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Speaker 1: So in fear, she flees the country with her daughter,

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Speaker 1: her only child, after threats that the two of them

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Speaker 1: would be raped and disemboweled, threatening to disembowel a little

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Speaker 1: girl in front of her mother, They dismember, they flee

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Speaker 1: the country. Listen. At one point, Eva and Kaya even

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Speaker 1: moved out of the country fearing for their lives, But

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Speaker 1: soon after moving back, even with a hidden address, another

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Speaker 1: letter arrived. I am going to take my revenge upon

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Speaker 1: you and your daughter. There will be no place on

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Speaker 1: this earth that I can't find you. The stalk or

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Speaker 1: then located and started calling Kaya's school, leaving horrifying messages.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine not only are you being stalked, but

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Speaker 1: you're little girl also being stalked. Listen to Kaya. It

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Speaker 1: was intimidation and fear and psychological and emotional terrorism on

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Speaker 1: a whole different level. What were your earliest memories. Something

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Speaker 1: had happened where our address was leaked and we were

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Speaker 1: actually in the middle of the night packing up all

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Speaker 1: our things, And then I remember being so young, just

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Speaker 1: being like really settling the effects of what it is

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Speaker 1: to you know, not only have a mom in the spotlight,

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Speaker 1: but also have someone emotionally terrorizing you. I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to understand how did your address get leaked? Eva? Well,

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Speaker 1: at the time, I mean, that's kind of a whole

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Speaker 1: other story. But because we had you know, we had

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Speaker 1: a gate gate and hedge issue in and I had

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Speaker 1: to I was at the city at getting a variant

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Speaker 1: for these things, and the city leaked by address on

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Speaker 1: the online camp you know, on their online court camera. Um,

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Speaker 1: they said my address on the online court camera and

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Speaker 1: immediately it was out and um. And then even the

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Speaker 1: news cameras came like a couple of days later saying

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Speaker 1: we see that you have. You know, you're trying to

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Speaker 1: get a variance with I was like, how is that news?

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Speaker 1: But you all just found my address and within about

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Speaker 1: a week the letters started coming directly to my house.

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Speaker 1: So he must have been watching every single thing about you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he was, well, we didn't know who he was, but

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Speaker 1: he was on our social media. Um, Steve and Steve

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Speaker 1: both found him, you know, following us, UM, following Kay

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Speaker 1: and I both on Instagram, UM, and me on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: And so he was he was following everybody. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, now, um, both Steve and I were sitting

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Speaker 1: at lunch the other day and you know, he just

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Speaker 1: put in my name and add past addresses came up.

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Speaker 1: Thank god, my current address didn't come up in there.

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Speaker 1: But because I had to start, but I had to

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Speaker 1: move obviously overnight, and I bought my next house in

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Speaker 1: an LLFC. It's not registered to me. So and then

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Speaker 1: even so seven years later he found that address and

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Speaker 1: I had to buy my next house in Stephen Kramer,

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Speaker 1: former FBI in Daga solicious. How did he keep finding her?

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Speaker 1: That's a very good question. We don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: he was just diligent on the internet, diligent following Eva,

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Speaker 1: and eventually, you know, he would get lucky that he'd

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Speaker 1: tracked down, for instance, Kaia's high school. She was at

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Speaker 1: a private high school, and he somehow managed to find that,

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Speaker 1: either to social media or other means. We aren't exactly

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Speaker 1: sure how he did it, but that was also part of,

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Speaker 1: you know, the concerns. Yeah, he's mailing these letters from

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Speaker 1: we believe Ohio, that's where some of them were postmarked.

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Speaker 1: But he could be in Los Angeles, he could be

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Speaker 1: following her around and we did not know that. So

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Speaker 1: those were some of the major concerns that we had

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Speaker 1: about trying to identify this guy apprehended. Yeah, between that

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Speaker 1: and the threat of disembowelment or rape and dismemberment, you

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Speaker 1: the two Steves, I have your hands full I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go to Scott Johnson forensic psychologists joining us. But Scott,

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. You heard earlier where

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Speaker 1: the stock would actually call this. He tracked down the

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Speaker 1: school where he was daughter attended. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: my senior year when I was called into my front office.

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Speaker 1: Your dad says he's going to pick you up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: stand out in front of the school. Yeah. So then

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Speaker 1: I was like, I text my dad was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing here? And he was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I never called the school and I'm not here. And

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Speaker 1: it just clicked and I went, oh my god, it's

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Speaker 1: my stalker. You are hearing EMA's daughter talk about an

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Speaker 1: attempt to kidnap her Farmers school posing as her dad.

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Speaker 1: And we all know that if the kidnapped her game

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Speaker 1: get close enough to the child to speak through the window.

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Speaker 1: It's a hot skip at a jump to grab the

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Speaker 1: child anyway. You can get them by the arm, the clothes,

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Speaker 1: the neck, the collar, and yanked them into the car.

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Speaker 1: It's all over in less than thirty seconds. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to more of what Eva's door KaiA says. That's

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Speaker 1: worried me a little bit. It's it's twenty fifteen. Now

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Speaker 1: you're you're You're thirteen, the letters started being in particular

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Speaker 1: address to you. I have such severe anxiety even now

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Speaker 1: to this day, because for me, it was just so

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Speaker 1: paralyzing to go to school and to not know, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I was going to get picked up, or if

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Speaker 1: I was going to come home one day and my

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Speaker 1: mom was just going to be found dead on the floor.

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Speaker 1: You know. Um Eva LaRue Emmy Award winning actress speaking

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Speaker 1: out to all stalking victims right now. The fact that

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Speaker 1: my daughter says, Mom, Mom, I love you, You're You're

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Speaker 1: my world. The fact that Kai had to worry about

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Speaker 1: coming in and finding you dead. Can you imagine? No?

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Speaker 1: I cannot. Yeah. And she said that she has started

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Speaker 1: having those fears at about six years old. That she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, she had the fear of her coming home

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Speaker 1: her backpack and her holding her a little you know,

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Speaker 1: lunch pale and coming in. She said she always was

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Speaker 1: afraid opening the door, like was she going to come

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Speaker 1: in and find her mother, you know, dead on the

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Speaker 1: floor like that. That was a fear of hers for

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Speaker 1: her whole life. She literally she deals with anxiety constantly,

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Speaker 1: just trying to take that in I mean every once

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Speaker 1: in a while. I mean, but that kind of trauma

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Speaker 1: changes your brain chemistry. Yes, yes, you're right. My daughter

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Speaker 1: will have dreams. Just go mom, Mama dreams. Something happened

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Speaker 1: to you. And I think it's like that thing you

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Speaker 1: love the most, your fear, that will be taken away.

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Speaker 1: And now the letters start coming to your daughter. How

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Speaker 1: did you yeah through that? Emotionally? It really is psychological

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Speaker 1: emotional terrorism on a whole different level. It just it

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Speaker 1: just is when you're constantly in fear, it really changes

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Speaker 1: everything about who you are and how you operate. How

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Speaker 1: did you hook up with the two Steve Stephen Bush

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Speaker 1: and Stephen Kramer, both former FBI also president and CEO

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Speaker 1: of Indago Solutions. How did you hook up with them? Ema? Well,

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Speaker 1: Steve Kramer and Steve Bush are absolutely, just for the record,

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Speaker 1: absolutely my heroes. They are angels walking on earth like

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Speaker 1: they when it when the motto Protect and Serve is

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Speaker 1: brought up. They are the paradigm of that. Because for

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Speaker 1: twelve years I had I had one FBI contact agent

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Speaker 1: who was in charge of my case, and he was

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Speaker 1: lovely and he was Every years we would get together

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Speaker 1: and he would tell me any upstates on the case.

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Speaker 1: But up until then, if someone's not in Kodis, there's

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Speaker 1: just nothing they could do. There's no way to identify

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Speaker 1: this person. And with ironic is being on CSI Miami,

358
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Speaker 1: everybody was in Kodis, right, we always got our guy.

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Speaker 1: Every person, everybody who was a bad guy would Vodis.

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Speaker 1: We've got a hit. In forty three minutes, the case

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Speaker 1: is solved. Well, in reality, not everybody's in Kodis. Eighty

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Speaker 1: plus percent of the people were in Kodis are already

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Speaker 1: in jail, and the other percentage of them are people

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00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: who are are John Doe's because they're in there from

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Speaker 1: rape kit or murder, you know, or crime scenes, but

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Speaker 1: they don't they don't have a name yet. Right, So

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Speaker 1: cut to Kaya's senior year, and all of the confluence

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00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: of all these things just happened at once where he

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Speaker 1: found Kaya's school. I believe he found her via Instagram.

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Speaker 1: She posted something or one of her friends posted a

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Speaker 1: picture with her in it, and then you can see

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Speaker 1: the school banner in the background. Oh exactly. All you

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Speaker 1: have to do is go down a little wormhole on

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Speaker 1: somebody's Instagram, And even if they don't have any information

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00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: in their photos or on their photo page. You can

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00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: just you can go down a wormhole seeing who tagged

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00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: her in other pictures and go to a friend to

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00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: their instagram, for instance, like if I don't put my location,

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Speaker 1: and you see a picture of Jackie and myself and

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00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: I don't reveal anything, but then you see Jackie's name,

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Speaker 1: then you go to Jackie's Instagram and man, exactly there

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Speaker 1: it is. You say, you know Westwood High School or

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Speaker 1: whatever in the background, and it's all over. And that's

384
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Speaker 1: exactly how he found her. And he called the school

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Speaker 1: pretending to be her dad and told the administrator at

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Speaker 1: the school to tell her in class, your dad's get

387
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Speaker 1: stand outside in front of the school and to pick

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Speaker 1: you up after school. And then she texted me right

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00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: away and she said, mom, dad. You know her dad

390
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: at the time. He since passed away, unfortunately, but her

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00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: dad lived in Palm Desert two and a half hours away,

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Speaker 1: and he and I were great friends. There's no way

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00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: he was going to come to down and not tell

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Speaker 1: me that he's going to come pick her up from school. No.

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Speaker 1: In that she's a senior in high school. She drove

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Speaker 1: herself to school. She doesn't need to be picked up

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Speaker 1: from school. So she immediately says, Mom, Oh my god,

398
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: is dad in town? That just sounds really fishy. And

399
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Speaker 1: so I called her dad and her dad was like, no,

400
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: I'm not in town. So I raced to the school

401
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: and I said, I'm picking my kid up from school.

402
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: You know, in all her whole life, I've had to

403
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: tell every school she went to visit the issue, please

404
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: be on the lookout she had a stalker. But we

405
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: never had a reason to be, you know, worried until

406
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: that point. And so the school was, you know, thought, oh, well,

407
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: this is going to be a misunderstanding. I'm sure it's

408
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: not a big deal. I bet they did, because they

409
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 1: were about to send her outside to have her dad

410
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: pick her up exactly. She could have been missing immediately, immediately, immediately.

411
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: It's so fast, and you think, oh, I can't be

412
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: dragged into a car. Yes you can. You can, even

413
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: an adult, a female, especially one, grab if they're strong

414
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: enough kid get you right in. They don't even have to.

415
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: They don't even have to use physical forces. If he

416
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: had a gun, had a knife, whatever he could, he

417
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: could have, you know, just made her get in the

418
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: car for fear of getting shot or step up. What

419
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: was going through your mind, Eva, when you're racing to

420
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: the school. Oh my god, I thought he's at the school.

421
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: He's stock in the school, She's near this piece, he's

422
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: got his eye, he's there, he's somewhere around the school.

423
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: Because now he knows where she is. Now he knows

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Speaker 1: where she is every day. So I raced to the school.

425
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: I pick her up. I call the FBI and I

426
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: find out that that my point person had been promoted

427
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: to another another department, and they tell me your new

428
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: agents that are in charge of your case, we'll call

429
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: you in the morning. I'm like, I'm telling you one

430
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: Heaven like, yeah, I need to talk to somebody right thee.

431
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: Please don't make me trash the FEBEs because I'm getting

432
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: really close to it. Scott Johnson joining me Forensic psychologists

433
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: joining us out in Minnesota, thirty two years specializing in

434
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: sex predators. Author of Physical Abusers and sex Offenders. You

435
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: can find Scott Johnson at Forensic Consultation dot org. Scott Johnson,

436
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: I mean what kind of I mean? I don't agree with,

437
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: but I get I love you. I want to marry you.

438
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: You've got to divorce your husband and marry me. He's

439
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: all wrong for you, that kind of letter versus I'm

440
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: going to disembowel your daughter after I raper in front

441
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: of your eyes. That's a whole another thing, Scott Johnson. Right,

442
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: So you're dealing with someone who's a psychlopath and obviously

443
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: a sadistic cyclopath because he's getting off on the fear

444
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: he's instilling. But the most dangerous part of this is

445
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: these are iguas of sessions, and for twelve plus years

446
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: he's been following and acting on his obsession and so

447
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: to instill fear in paranoia is part of what he

448
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: gets out of this as a thrill, and so that's

449
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: the power play for him. He's a psychopath. Now, when

450
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: you say psychopath, for those of us that are not

451
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: educated psychologists like yourself, I'm just a JD. What do

452
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: you mean by that? Well, he has an abnormal brain. Okay,

453
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 1: limited fear, limited remorse, anxiety, things like that. But he

454
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: has a need to hurt people, and he gets off

455
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: on terrorizing people. When you say get off, do you

456
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: meane he enjoys it, He laughs about it, he relives it,

457
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: or he actually sexually masturbates to it. For this particular offender,

458
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: probably all of the above, because he's tied so strongly

459
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: specific sex acts that he wants to do in with

460
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: the mutilation and everything else. So to him, it's just

461
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: one big power play. And the sad part is and

462
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, not to try to make this sound you

463
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: know who whoa it's it isn't who whoa issue because

464
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: he probably won't stop until he is either a locked

465
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: up permanently or be he successfully does what he wants

466
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: to do. And so there is one person you left out.

467
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: We kill him and that's what he wants to do,

468
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: is to kidnap, rape, this, embowel and you know, kill

469
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: and unfortunately someone like this, he's not going to stop

470
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: until he can do that because that's what he lives for.

471
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: And the proof of that is twelve years of specific

472
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: obsessive behavior. Twelve years. Because I was trying to figure

473
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: out Scott Johnson, and I learned this about five years

474
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: into prosecuting violent felonies in inner city Atlanta. I would

475
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: always wonder why why One day I was sitting in

476
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: the courtroom looking over the defendant I was trying injury,

477
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: wasn't there And I thought, why ask why why do

478
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: I care? Why? I will never prove why. All I

479
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: need to know is who did this thing? And how

480
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: do I stop him? But I am wondering why right now?

481
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: What gratification would he get out of just sending letters

482
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: and threatening her and scaring her and her daughter. Well,

483
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: and that's the interesting part because that's where many stalkers stops.

484
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: They might send some letters, a couple of phone calls.

485
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: But he's persistent with this, which means he's really invested.

486
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: He's got his you know, his whole life right now

487
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: of obsessions is around him. Unfortunately, these these two victims

488
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: and alcohol him victims. Eva LaRue is with us. You're

489
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: hearing the voice of Scott Johnson, forensic psychologists joining us

490
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: out of Minnesota. You can find it at Forensic Consultation

491
00:29:48,560 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: dot org. Oh Time Stories with Nancy Grace, Eva LaRue.

492
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to stain in your shoes for a moment.

493
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: Every time I knew letter would come, how defeated, exhausted,

494
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: afraid would you be? I mean, you could have a

495
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: perfectly wonderful day and then you see the letter and

496
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: you know immediately what it is. I knew the writing

497
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: I would have been able to identify the writing from

498
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: across the street. Like I remember the two times that

499
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: I opened the mailbox and he had found my address,

500
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: my actual home address, and pulled the mail out in

501
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: the mailbox, and and literally it felt like I had

502
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: somebody had teased me. That's that. It felt like it

503
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: was like an electrical shock through your system. That's like,

504
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, he found the house. Oh my god,

505
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: we're out, we have to move. Did you ever saying

506
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: they would bay and end in SI after twelve? I

507
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: really didn't. And then in that moment when they told

508
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: me that my FBI agent, who had known everything about

509
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: the case had left the case. Yeah, I got a

510
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: phone call the next morning from my new FBI agents

511
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: and charges the case. And that was that was Steve Bush.

512
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: And overnight that night when he had been at the

513
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: Stoker had been acting like he was her father, and

514
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: the school was the school was not efficiently freaked out

515
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: like I wanted them to be. And but overnight right

516
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: he called the school and he left a message on

517
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: the answering machine at the school detailing all the things

518
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: he had detailed in the letters. So by the time

519
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: they got to school, the administration got to school in

520
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: the morning, they were appropriate league, completely free, and it

521
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: took that to make them realize how much they screwed up.

522
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: They were about to send your daughter out for a

523
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: stalk or a grammar. Yeah, they were now that that

524
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: actually wasn't their their fault because they when they first

525
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: got the phone call, they had no idea that it

526
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: was anybody other than death. But when we ran to

527
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: the office and said, oh my god, this is the stalker,

528
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, shouldn't there be some kind of verification

529
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: even because I mean, anybody can call go I'm your dad,

530
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: ever her outside and grammer and be gone exactly. Oh okay, guys,

531
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: you earlier heard Eva LaRue, Emmy Award winning actress. I

532
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: just can't say it enough. She has been the start

533
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: of so many hits. You would know her name or

534
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: her face anywhere. But it's not just her. Her daughter's

535
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: been dragged into this. You heard her mention her two heroes. Okay,

536
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: so far we haven't been able to get a DNA match.

537
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: We've got his DNA off the stamps, off the ladders,

538
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: but there's nothing to match it too. Joining US forensic

539
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: psychologist Scott Josh Stephen Kramer, Stephen Bush, when did you

540
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: believe you had a break in the case. So it's

541
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: important to understand a real brief timeline, Nancy of kind

542
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: of how we got to that point. Steve Kramer and

543
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: Paul Holes had already led the team in twenty eighteen.

544
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: That's solved the Golden State killer case. I can imagine

545
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: the phone start ringing off the hook at the FBI.

546
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to solve their case. If they have DNA

547
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: of an unknown suspect, they want to solve the case.

548
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: And so Steve and I form a program at the

549
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: bureau to start doing this, and that leads us into

550
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: early twenty nineteen, when a very astute supervisor at the

551
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: FBI assigned me full time to do this. He transfers

552
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: me up to the Los Angeles office. I arrive at

553
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: my new desk and I find a binder, a three

554
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: ring chief government binder that on the out side of

555
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: it it says evil LaRue Threat letters and it has

556
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: an FBI case number. And I'm a curious guy, I'm

557
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: an investigator. I open up this binder and I start

558
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: reading these letters. That's when I first learned about the case.

559
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: That's when I first realized this is a horrible, horrible

560
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: thing that has happened to this innocent woman and her daughter.

561
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: The next question I have is do we have adequate DNA.

562
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: We call the FBI laboratory. We figure out that there's

563
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: DNA all up and down this case, and that's when

564
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: we knew Nancy. Once we have suspect DNA, Steve and

565
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: I are confident that we can solve these cases, and

566
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: we have to. We had to take that DNA and

567
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: send it to a private laboratory to get the profile.

568
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: It's different than the codus profile, the profile that you

569
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: need to do genealogy. And at that point we know

570
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: we've got a lead to start working on to find

571
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: a solution to this case. And what was the profile?

572
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: So the profile is called a it's called a SNIP profile.

573
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: It's an acronym that stands for single nucleotide polymorphism. It's

574
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: the same as the profile you get if you send

575
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: your saliva to ancestry dot com or twenty three and me.

576
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: And what that profile does is when we take in

577
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: and we upload it to public databases. It doesn't tell

578
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: us who the bad guy is, but it tells us

579
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: who his relatives are and by relatives, I mean people

580
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: who share genetic code with when people who share DNA

581
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: with him, and it could be very small amounts, a

582
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: half a percent, a quarter of a percent, but from

583
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: those folks we are able to reverse engineer and triangulate

584
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: a family tree to determine the source of that DNA,

585
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: which in this case was the suspect. And then you

586
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: start looking to see who resembles that DNA that's in town. Guys,

587
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: take a listen again to our friends at Access. What

588
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: they didn't know is at the exact same time, two

589
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: former FBI agents were using new DNA technology that led

590
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: them straight to Eva and kayas stalker, and they were

591
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: on their way to arrest him. They literally went out

592
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: the next day. They've got to go and stake him out,

593
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: wait for him to throw out something that has DNA

594
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: on it, and it was an Arby's cup and they

595
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: got the DNA off the arty straw. It's amazing. Okay,

596
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: you were just hearing Stephen Bush talking from in Dago's Solutions.

597
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: Former FBI special Agent Stephen Kramer, a former FBI attorney

598
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 1: present in Dago Solutions, tell me about that moment. I

599
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: remember it really well. Steve Bush and myself were actually

600
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: doing a genealogy and that was sitting on our computers

601
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: building these family trees, as Steve Bush mentioned, trying to

602
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: figure out all the relatives who could be a person

603
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: that was sending these letters. We were actually doing it

604
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: on a Saturday afternoon at home, and as we came

605
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: across the family and we narrowed it down, we found

606
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: an individual who actually lived in Ohio. He looked good

607
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: age wise, we obviously didn't know what do you look like.

608
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,959
Speaker 1: It's not a five year old boy or a ninety

609
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: year old man, so he's in the pot of suspects.

610
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: I got you exactly exactly. So we started looking at

611
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: a little more carefully. We started scrubbing some of the

612
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: social media, going to Eva's Instagram, Facebook accounts and seeing,

613
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, the people that followed her, and we were

614
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: able to determine that this person that we were looking

615
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: at was actually following her also of one of the

616
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: many thousands of people on her social media. So that

617
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: was like the big break. That's when Steve and I

618
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: looked at each other kind of gave each other the

619
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 1: high five that this is our guy, okay, who followed

620
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: him into Arby's. That would have been part Steve. You

621
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: want to take that? Yeah, so you're actually the way.

622
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: This is one of the nice things about working at

623
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 1: the FBI is when you have a suspect that lives

624
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: out of state, you got a field officer. Yeah, you call,

625
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: you call that field office and say, hey, Ohio, can

626
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: you guys help us out. I will never be able

627
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: to look at Arby's the same way again thinking about

628
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: the case. Guys, It's been a horror story so far.

629
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: But is there a happy ending it? Take a listen

630
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: to our cut nine our friends out of NBC four

631
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: in Ohio. Man He's been sentenced to prison in Los

632
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: Angeles and for admitting that he harassed a TV actress

633
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: and her daughter for more than a decade. Fifty eight

634
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: year old James Rogers of Heath was sentenced to forty

635
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: months in prison. Rogers admitted to stocking, threatening and harassing

636
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: actress Eva LaRue for twelve years straight out to Eva LaRue.

637
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: The guys in jail for forty months. I think we

638
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: could have done a little bit better. But I praised God.

639
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: He's in jail. We know where he is. Reaction, Yeah,

640
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: I am disappointed. That he didn't get the minimum. The

641
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: minimum on this case was forty six months and the

642
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: maximum was fifty seven months for twelve years of being stoked.

643
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: He only got three years. I don't know how somebody

644
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: can take twelve years of your safety and mental health

645
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: and only get three years. But but at least he

646
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: got something. I mean, there's always I mean, you know, Nancy,

647
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: there's always possibility that they get nothing. Yes, that they

648
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: only get probation. You know, he's been identified, he's behind bars,

649
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: and how are you going to prepare for when he

650
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: gets out? Eva? Well, that's the thing too. And I

651
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: have to say, I'm so grateful to the US Attorney's

652
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: office for even taking the case, because you know, the

653
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: US attorneys have piles and piles and piles of cases

654
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: that are not going to get adjudicated. And I don't

655
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 1: even know what would have happened had they not taken

656
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: the case. You know what, Eva, you are so right,

657
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: he would still be free in Stocking. Yeah, I just

658
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: gotta ask Stephen Kramer or Stephen Bush, who is this guy,

659
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: James David Rogers h fifty eight? What is his story?

660
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's crazy, Nanthy, he was he was a

661
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: certified nurses aid. He was a CNA that worked at

662
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: an old folks home, a senior living facility in Ohio.

663
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: He had no prior criminal history that we were aware of.

664
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: He lived with his elderly mom in her small place

665
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: in Ohio, and so he had no previous criminal history.

666
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: He was not a guy that was on our radar screen.

667
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: And he had my wife and children, a girlfriend, and

668
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: nothing not that we were aware of knowing. So he

669
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: literally is the lonely white guy living in his mom's basement.

670
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: Profilers all over the country are skipping up and down

671
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: the hall right now because they were right. You know

672
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: the fact that he is a psychopath and he's been

673
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: under the you know, he's managed to avoid being on

674
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: the radar. And I want to interject this one piece

675
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: that you know that may affect supervision and everything else,

676
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: is he knows how to work the system. And you know,

677
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: he's a victim. He's got this, this, or he's got

678
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: nothing except psychopath for a problem. And so but he'll apologize,

679
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: but they're empty apologies because he loves to do what

680
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: he does and you know, liking the stamps and things,

681
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 1: I would think actually probably wasn't a mistake. Many most

682
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: psychopaths don't care forily evidence because they want to see

683
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: if people are too DM dumb to pick up on it, which,

684
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 1: of course Steven Steve picked up on that. And I mean,

685
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: this guy just doesn't care until the job. This sent well,

686
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: all I can say right now is for this moment,

687
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: Eva LaRue and her daughter can breathe easy. But because

688
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: of his light sentence, they got to gear up and

689
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: pronto for when this guy, James David Rogers walks free.

690
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story signing up Goodbye friend,