1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: On the west side of Detroit. In the summer of 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, year old Marvin Cotton Junior sold a gun. 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: He thought it belonged to his distant cousin, but that 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: wasn't the case. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 2: I get a knock at the door and it's him 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: and an older guy, and I knew immediately that it 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: had something to do with this gun. So I opened 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: the door and make it away from my house. So 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 2: as I closed the door, I heard the older guy 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: say he don't know who he's fm with. Next thing 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: I know, two police cars pull up. They gear up 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: and break in my house without a warn He kept 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: saying that it was a department issue gun, but there 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: wasn't a gun that a police offical carry was like 15 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: a huge chrome automatic weapon. They really wanted it back. 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: They ramsacked my house. They took money. Other guns that 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: I had with the gun that they were looking for 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: wasn't there. He said, I got a thousand dollars for 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: this gun. We're gonna leave. Just go hide it somewhere, 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: call me and tell me where you hit the gun at. 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: But instead of playing along, Marvin filed a complaint, which 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: led to an investigation and eventually consequences for these officers, 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: as well as Marvin being routinely harassed by the police. 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: Fast forward to January twenty fourth, two thousand and one, 25 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: gunfire erupted on Marvin's friend Jamon McIntyre's porch. Jaman ran 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: into the alley across the street, where he was fatally shot. 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: When witnesses at the scene could not identify the shooters, 28 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: the blame eventually found its way to Marvin and to others. 29 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: When I was arrested, one of the detectives told the 30 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: other detectives, you know, he really fed up some good officers' lives. 31 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: My name is doctor Marvincott Junior, and I spent nighteteen 32 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: seven months and twelve days of prison for a crime 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: I didn't commit. 34 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: From Lava for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: Freeling today, Doctor Marvin Cotton Junior. Marvin Cotton Junior grew 36 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: up in the nineteen eighties and nineties on the West 37 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: side of Detroit. 38 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: The neighborhood that I'm from, a street called Myers. Myers 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 2: was the center of the universe for that area, or 40 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: at least it was the center of my universe. We 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: had restaurants on this block. We had elementary school on 42 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: this block. It was like everything that you would need 43 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: a community to be. It was all on this block, 44 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: and it was a lot of families lived there. It 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: was a lot of guys. We grew up together in 46 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: my age group and those that were older. My co 47 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: defendant in this case, Anthony Legion, who also did this 48 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: show Brilliant paralegal here in Michigan, he grew up on 49 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: Myers as well. He lived down the street from me, 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: several years older. He gave my first haircut as a child. 51 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: You know, I kind of grew up up under him 52 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: and the older guys that was in the area. You know, 53 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: Myers was really a close knit community. 54 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: Marvin's co defendant, Anthony Legion, managed to stay largely uninvolved 55 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: in the streets, while Marvin's situation was different. 56 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: I'm the middle child of an older sister and a 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: younger brother. We were raised primarily by my mother. My 58 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: biological father struggled with drugs and alcohol for maybe thirty 59 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: seven years of his life. Wow, he was very abusive 60 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: in the household, and eventually she got away from that. Yeah. 61 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: I grew up. I grew up very poor. I remember 62 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: it creating the desire to want more, to want to 63 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: have things, to not want to be singled out or 64 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: bullied in school for not having things. You know, children 65 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: could be very cruel. And my stepfather, the man who 66 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: eventually married my mother, he helped raise myself and my 67 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: brother and my sister from maybe about the age where 68 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: I was twelve years old into the time that I 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: was wrongfully convicted. He introduced me to the streets and 70 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: I got involved with selling drugs and selling guns and 71 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: just being involved in that whole life. 72 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: And while hustling in the streets, Marvin was a senior 73 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: in high school when he found out that he was 74 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: going to be a dad when. 75 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: I was seventeen years old, and I remember, like immediately 76 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: when I found out, I just felt the pressure of 77 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: being responsible for another human being that was coming. And 78 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 2: you know, I went to every single doctor's appointment. I 79 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: made sure that I fed her mother everything that I 80 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: thought she should be eating. And I was very excited. 81 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 2: But since I didn't have the two to organize my 82 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: life the way that it should be, my plan was 83 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: drop out of high school and then enroll in a 84 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 2: GED course so that I can quickly get my GED 85 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: and when I dropped myself from high school. I went 86 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: to go and roll and they was like you a 87 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: week late, Like you have to wait till next year 88 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: to enroll in our ged program. So it was like 89 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: I could have stayed in school, but I had a 90 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: problem that no one knew about. I couldn't read and write. 91 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: So I had made it all the way to this 92 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: point in school without being able to read and write, 93 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: because I just used my ability to communicate. I had 94 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: a great memory, so if I heard something in class, 95 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 2: I would answer all of the questions. I would never 96 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: do anything on paper, and teachers automatically knew, like you're smart, 97 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 2: you know everything, just do the work, so they would 98 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: pass me because they thought I knew it. And the 99 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 2: reason I couldn't read and write is because when I 100 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: was a child and I was worried about my mother 101 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: and whatever fight that just happened the night before, or 102 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: what was going on in the home. 103 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: So Marvin wasn't exactly set up for success, but he 104 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: survived and cared for his daughter with the tools that 105 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: he had, and that's how it went until the summer 106 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: of two thousand, when his distant cousin brought him a 107 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: gun to sell. 108 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: One of my cousin's cousin. He knew that I indulged 109 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: in that world. So I took the firearm. I gave 110 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: him some money, and I went and I sold it. 111 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: Several hours later, I get a knock at the door. 112 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: It's him and an older guy, probably in his forties. 113 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: I knew immediately it had something to do with the gun. 114 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: So I opened the door, and you know, I told, 115 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: you know, man, get away from my house. I didn't 116 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: just get away from my house. So as I closed 117 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: the door, I heard the older guy say he don't 118 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: know who he's fing with. Next thing I know, two 119 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 2: police cars pull up. They gear up and put their 120 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: vests and everything on my front line. They break in 121 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: my house without a warrant. They ramsacked the house. They 122 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: took money, other guns that I had, but the gun 123 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: that they were looking for wasn't there. So they handcuffed me, 124 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: put me in the bathroom, and one of the guys 125 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: come in and says, look, I got a thousand dollars. 126 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: He said it on the bathroom sync He said, gonna 127 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: let you out of these handcuffs. We're gonna leave. Here's 128 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: my phone number. Just go hide it. Somewhere, call me 129 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: and tell me where you hit the gun, and I 130 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: owe you one. 131 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: Do you think he lost his gun like he was 132 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: in trouble maybe, like you know. 133 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: He kept saying that it was a department issue gun. 134 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: But I have seen department issue guns before, and it 135 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: didn't have that extra serial number with DPD on it. 136 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: And it wasn't a gun that a police officer will carry. 137 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 2: It was like a huge chrome automatic web and it 138 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: was no way that it was a department issue gun. 139 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: But they really wanted it back. And the gun was 140 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: not worth a thousand dollars, you know, it was brand new. 141 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: It was probably a four hundred dollars gun. But they 142 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: were willing to pay in pretty penny for this firearm back. 143 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: And he said, go hide it somewhere and just tell 144 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: me where it's at. So me being twenty years old 145 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: at that time and my egos bruise, they essentially robbed 146 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: me because they took things that I wasn't supposed to have, 147 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: but they took them, and you know, they didn't charge 148 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: me with it or anything. So one day I filed 149 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: a complaint with internal Affairs and the person that was 150 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: leading the raid was the head of narcotics, and they 151 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: was like, why is a narcotic person trying to retrieve 152 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 2: a gun that was never reported stolen? And it started 153 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: a real big investigation. 154 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: Do you think this kind of put you on their 155 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: radar for when doomas? 156 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: That absolutely did. They would just pick me up for 157 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: no reason at all, Take me to jail, let me 158 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: out sometimes, come get me the same day, take me 159 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: back to jail, keep me in there for a couple 160 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: of days, let me out. Every time they seen me, 161 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: they was pulling me over. I got to the point 162 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: to where I would just pull my car over, get out, 163 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 2: and hit the alarm as I'm running, lock my doors 164 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 2: as I'm running, just because I didn't feel like going 165 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 2: to jail again for no reason, which led to me 166 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: filing additional complaints. And eventually I filed a complaint and 167 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: a police officer came to my house arresting me. The 168 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: police PRECID is like five minutes away. They drove me 169 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: around for like forty five minutes, you know, cussing and raving. 170 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: The officer that was driving had his gun in his 171 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: hand the whole time he was pulling up on people, 172 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 2: pointing his gun at people. He actually shot somebody that night. 173 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, after they took me to jail, he 174 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 2: was just like unhinged. I thought they were gonna kill 175 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: me that night. To be honest, I thought, you know, 176 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: being a nobody black man from the streets of Detroit 177 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: where you know, constitutional rights didn't exist at all back then, 178 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: and you know, I just thought it was over. And 179 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: then the pressure that they were placing on me at 180 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: that time, I knew that something was coming. I just 181 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: didn't know what it was. 182 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: Which brings us to the victim in this case, Marvin's 183 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: friend Jamon McIntyre, who lived at thirty nine to fifty 184 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: one third Street in Detroit with a guy named Kenny Lockhart. 185 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: But the house belonged to Jamon's powerful relatives. As we 186 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: learned from Anthony Legion's attorney, Wolf Muller, I. 187 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 3: Just know from all the police reports and what the 188 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 3: police officers knew is this was a drug house maintained 189 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 3: and kept by Jamon McIntyre, who was related either by 190 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: blood or they call them plain nephews with the Johnson 191 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: crime family that ran a lot of dope out of 192 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 3: Detroit at that time in the early two thousands, late nineties. 193 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: So this was a notorious drug house. In fact, one 194 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: of the defendants in our lawsuit, Santonian Adams, was a 195 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 3: nephew of the Johnsons, and he was a Detroit Police 196 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 3: officer there at the time of the crime. He we 197 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 3: found out later, was actually running security for the Johnson 198 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: crime family as a Detroit Police officer. 199 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: So shortly after midnight on January twenty fourth, two thousand 200 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: and one, Santonian Adams was out in the driveway. Kenny 201 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: Lockhart and his girlfriend Renee Tate were in an upstairs bedroom, 202 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: and Jamon McIntyre was on the porch, allegedly with three 203 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: other men. 204 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 3: Three guys were hanging around on a porch, apparently a 205 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: little bit after midnight, McIntyre's sister comes over and she's 206 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 3: looking for some money. He gives her some money, she leaves. 207 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 3: She doesn't recognize any of the three. Shortly after she leaves, 208 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 3: Adams is in the driveway and all of a sudden, 209 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 3: here shots being fired and McIntyre calls to him tone 210 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 3: as he's running out of the house being chased by 211 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: these guys, runs down an alley across the street and 212 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 3: gets undown. Now at this time, Lockhart is in the 213 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 3: bedroom with his girlfriend. He first told the officers he 214 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: didn't see what happened. Here's the shooting, closes his door 215 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 3: because he's trying to protect his girlfriend and waste till 216 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 3: the shooting. 217 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: Stops, as did his girlfriend, Renee Tate. Police collected about 218 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: thirty shell casings, ten near the porch and another twenty 219 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: in the alley. An officer Santonian Adams, not really explaining 220 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: his presence there, said that he had gotten off a 221 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: few shots as well. 222 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 3: Santonian Adams claims that he couldn't find his official police 223 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 3: gun in the van he was driving at the time. 224 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: He says, I couldn't find my gun, but as I 225 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 3: was ducking when I heard the shots, I saw a 226 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: gun under the front passenger seat, so I grabbed that 227 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: and I got off about four shots. Well, he never 228 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: turned in his official law enforcement handgun to have it analyzed. 229 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: When they did take a look at it, they found 230 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 3: there were four bullets missing. His story never added up. 231 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 3: Didn't pursue him. 232 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: Instead, nearly a month later, they went back to Kenny Lockhart, 233 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: who inexplicitly had a new story to tell involving three 234 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: young men from the neighborhood. Marvin Cotton, Anthony Legion, and 235 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: twenty nine year old Devonte Parks. 236 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 3: Lockhart claims he hears the shooting, then he comes out 237 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: says that the guys are in his house, and a 238 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 3: guy he identifies as Cotton tells another guy shoot him, 239 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 3: shoot Lockhart. Lockhart claims he finds a gun and takes 240 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 3: a shot. Only the problem is there are no bullet 241 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 3: holes in the house. 242 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: And not only was this account contradicted by Renee Tate, 243 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: but also of the three guns that the police found 244 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: in the house, none of them could be linked to 245 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: the shellcasings that were collected from the scene. 246 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 3: Even one of the police officers who first interviewed Lockhart 247 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: wrote in his notes, the guy is not telling the truth. 248 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 3: I don't believe what word he says. And mind you, 249 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: he first told the officers he didn't see what it 250 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 3: has and second he knew Cotton, so if Cotton had 251 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 3: been there, he would have identified Cotton. 252 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: Nevertheless, all three young men were arrested separately, and with 253 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: all the harassment that preceded this arrest, Marvin thought this 254 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: was just more of the same. 255 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: You know, I had got kind of used to it 256 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 2: at this point. I did not know why they were 257 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: picking me up and they took me downtown. They put 258 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: me in a bathroom size interrogation room, you know, bright lights. 259 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: They left me in there for about thirteen hours. No 260 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: one came to check on me. Couldn't use the bathroom. 261 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: About thirteen fourteen hours later and they took me into 262 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: an office. There was three detectives in that office. One 263 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: of the detectives told the other detectives, you know, he 264 00:14:46,600 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: really fed up some good officers' lives. Here I go 265 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: in this interrogation role, twenty one years old, not knowing 266 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: why I'm down here. It was Sergeant Walter Bates, Sergeant 267 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: Ernest Wilson, and Inspector Donald Hughes. It was a lot 268 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: of threats saying they were going to do this and 269 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: do that to me, some acts of violence. And I 270 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: told them that I didn't have anything that I wanted 271 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: to talk about. I told him a lawyer that shut 272 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: it down. And just so you know, Walter Bates went 273 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: to prison for Robin thirteen banks. Ernest Wilson high speed 274 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: chased from a different police department, drunk for a second 275 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: DUI and had an illegal gun on him. And then 276 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: I have a recording of Donald Hughes talking about how 277 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: they set me up. 278 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: Before their misconduct was revealed, Marvin, Anthony and Davante had 279 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: to find ways to impeach the identification that these menduced 280 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: via Kenny Lockhart, while also trying to corroborate their alibis 281 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: from pre trial detention. 282 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: Like I said, I grew up not knowing how to 283 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: read and write. And it's interesting because my wrongful conviction 284 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 2: is the very thing that corrected that. I had a 285 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: lot of motivation because when they gave me that big 286 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: old stack of discovery papers, it was about forty five 287 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 2: pages and I couldn't read it. 288 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: Kenny Lockhart said that he was absolutely one hundred percent 289 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: certain of the three guys who were charged, Legion, Cotton, 290 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 3: and DeVante Parks on Parks had in airtight alibi. Well, 291 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: then there goes Lockhart's whole identification. 292 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: It appears the state had verified Parks's alibi, which directly 293 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: undermined Lockhart's identification, but instead of dropping all charges, they 294 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: found a jailhouse informant named Ellis Frasier to hold the 295 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: case together. Meanwhile, Marvin had taught himself how to read 296 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: and write, just in time to find out out how 297 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: Detroit Police operates. 298 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 2: Four days before Trout, my attorney came to visit me 299 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: in the county jail and he slid a statement to me. 300 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: So I'm looking over this statement and my blood pressure 301 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: is just going through the roof as I'm trying to 302 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 2: read it. And my attorney he says, listen, this guy 303 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: is saying that you can confessed him, and I'm like, 304 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 2: this didn't happen. 305 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: It is the Detroit Police Department, and particularly the homicide 306 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 3: section in the late nineteen eighties through the nineteen nineties 307 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 3: and even into extending the early two thousands, if they 308 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: had a weak case, they would recruit some snitch, typically 309 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: from what would be the ninth floor jail, where you're 310 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 3: only supposed to be held there for about forty eight 311 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 3: hours before you get transferred to the county jail. But 312 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 3: some of these guys on a ninth floor were in 313 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 3: the ninth floor lockup for a year or more and 314 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 3: they had sheets over their cells, they had VCRs, they 315 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 3: had TVs, they had food, they had drink, they had 316 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: everything because they were regular snitches for the DPD. And 317 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: three of them have said under oath is, we would 318 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 3: get discovery packages from the detectives told to memorize it. 319 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 3: A handwritten statement from the homicide detective saying, how this 320 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 3: guy confessed and all you had to do was sign it. 321 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: I don't even consider Ellis Fraser or jail house informists 322 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 2: a snitches, because a snitch tells something they know, But 323 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: when detectives give you the information for you to testify to, 324 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 2: that's just something completely different. 325 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: But in the time before this informant system was exposed, 326 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: it seems that the pattern weaved this case together as well. 327 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: Ellis Fraser said that Marvin confessed to him an implicated 328 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: legion and importantly not Parks. But there are some problems 329 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: with this statement. 330 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 2: He says this happened in the county jail, which has 331 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: huge bullopeans. As you're going to court, they're putting people 332 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: in different bullpens depending on what judge they're going to see. 333 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 2: In his state, he said that Anthony Legion, myself, and 334 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: my third cod defended were all on the docket to 335 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: go see the trial judge. I went and see my 336 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: probation judge on this day that this jail house informant 337 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: says that I was in a different bullpen, So. 338 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: Wrong, Judge He also said that Marvin had changed into 339 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: street clothes, but that doesn't happen when seeing the probation judge. 340 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: And then the statement placed them all in the trial 341 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: judge bullpen together. 342 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: Anthony never came down that day, even though on the 343 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: computer it says that he had court that day, but 344 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: we got documents showing that they never signed him to 345 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: come down to court. My other co defendant had to 346 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: go see a different judge in a completely different county, 347 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: so he wasn't even in the bull pen. And then 348 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 2: I went and seeing a different judge because I was 349 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: seeing my probation judge. So none of us was in 350 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: the bullpen with Ellis Fraser Junior. Although they thought that 351 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 2: they had set it up like that, did. 352 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: This get brought up at trial? Did your defense attorney 353 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: bring this up? 354 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: Well? When he went and showed the judge and the 355 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 2: prosecutor they had a sidebar to then that's when they 356 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: changed the story and Illustrazer was like, no, nobody was 357 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: in the bullpayn with me. I talked to him through 358 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 2: a wall and he told me his first and last name, 359 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: victims first and last name, the street where this happened. 360 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,719 Speaker 2: Witnesses first and last name, all of these details that 361 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 2: you can get out of policy ports and preliminary transcripts, 362 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: and it was like literally a perfectly written statement that 363 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: no one would ever say, and no one would ever 364 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 2: share this information through a wall in a bullpen with 365 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 2: forty to fifty people in his bullpen, forty to fifty 366 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: people in my bullpen. People don't even use their real 367 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: names in jail. 368 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Fraser also testified that he was receiving nothing in return 369 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: for his testimony, even though he was released soon after. 370 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: And the surprises didn't stop there. Without explanation, DeVante Parks 371 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: was severed from Marvin and Anthony's trial all of a. 372 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 3: Sudden, Parks severed from the case. Why it turns out, 373 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 3: right before trial they verified Park had an airtight alibi, 374 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 3: and so they dismissed charges against Parks, but only after 375 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: the Cotton legion trial. 376 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: Which gave the appearance that Parks was still being charged. 377 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: While this information could not be used to impeach Lockhart, 378 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: who had said that he was one hundred percent certain 379 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: when he identified Parks, but at trial, Lockhart only had 380 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: to identify the two defendants in front of him. 381 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 3: The state's evidence simply came to Lockhart and being backed 382 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 3: up by a snitch witness, which then would give credibility 383 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,479 Speaker 3: to Lockhart, right, because they're saying the same thing. And 384 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 3: they never got to hear about the Duponte Parks misidentification. 385 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 3: As much as the defense tried to punch holes in Lockhart, 386 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 3: Lockhart could say, I knew Cotton, so I knew who 387 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 3: it was. And then this other guy legion, I saw 388 00:21:59,200 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 3: him too. 389 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: We called two witnesses, a detective that Kenneth Lockhart had 390 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 2: told several different variant stories too. And we called another 391 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 2: witness that was the girlfriend of Lockhart, and she had 392 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,479 Speaker 2: told a story in her statement that conflicted with Lockhart. 393 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: Right, because she was in the house with him, right, 394 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: they allegedly had heard the gunshot. 395 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: Yes, So we wanted to call her to show that 396 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: this guy is lying, he's not telling the truth. But 397 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 2: when she came in court, she was crying, shaking, She 398 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 2: kept looking at Anthony and I and you know, we've 399 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 2: never seen this woman before in our life. But the 400 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: jury don't know why she's crying looking at us in 401 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 2: this way. 402 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: So without context or how Lockhart came to name these men, 403 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: or how Parks's charges were just about to be dismissed, 404 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: or how Frasier was definitely receiving a deal for testifying. 405 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: On October nineteenth, two thousand and one, the jury Anthony 406 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: and Marvin a first degree murder and illegal use of 407 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: a firearm, sending them away for life without the possibility 408 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: of parole, and in the process, another generation of the 409 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: Cotton family was in jeopardy. 410 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 2: Once I was wrongfully convicted. I knew that my daughter 411 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 2: was in danger fathers in prison, a young black female 412 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 2: in the city of Detroit. I did not want her 413 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 2: to be a statistic so I knew that I needed 414 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 2: to draw as many lines and connections and communication with 415 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: her as possible. So even before she learned how to read, 416 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: I was writing her letters. I wanted her to have 417 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: a drawer full of letters that she can always see, 418 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: and I would put lessons in it. I would talk 419 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 2: to her about protecting her space and just communicating and 420 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 2: being kind to people. I would just put lessons in 421 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: every letter. I will send her cards, I will send 422 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 2: her Teddy Bears money. I would call her all the time. 423 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 2: So I just drew as many lines to build the 424 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: relationship as possible. Because I knew that our relationship may 425 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: give her a little bit of what she need not 426 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: to fall and be a statistic in any way. 427 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: You know, the relationship you had with your mother and 428 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: your father and these different men in your life, did 429 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: that affect or inform the way you parented with your daughter. 430 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I didn't have a perfect guide on what to be, 431 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: but I knew what I did not want to be. 432 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 2: You know, our biological father. You know, we've been building 433 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 2: relationships since I've been out. I go see him a 434 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: few times a year. But what I got from him 435 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: that he wasn't trying to give me. But what I 436 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: got from him is my discipline when it comes to 437 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 2: alcohol and drugs because of what I witnessed and what 438 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 2: I seen, and you know, all of the broken promises 439 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 2: growing up, all of that stayed with me, and I'm 440 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 2: able to practice opposite in a positive way. You know, 441 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 2: he was never present, so I make sure that I'm 442 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: very present. You know, drugs was his priority. And you 443 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: know drug addicts are not interested in asking you how 444 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: are you doing? They actually you know you have anything 445 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: for me? Can I borrow some money? So his communication 446 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 2: is not the best, So I make sure my communication 447 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: with my daughter is solid. 448 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: That it's not about needing or wanting. 449 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: It's absolutely yeah, wow, it's all about me getting in 450 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: their business. Like in prison, I understood that these detectives 451 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 2: that was doing the wrong things. I recognized that they 452 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 2: were smart because they were able to hide things from 453 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 2: me in my face. So I knew that the battle 454 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: was a mental battle. I have to become smarter because 455 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 2: they're not planned. So my initial motivation was to turn 456 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 2: myself into a weapon so that I could fight back 457 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: against the system that had rolled over my life. I 458 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: read a lot of books, I studied a lot. I 459 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 2: did a lot of work on myself. So I turned 460 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 2: my prison sale into a university. But when you can 461 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 2: think in prison, everybody starts coming to you for askers. 462 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 2: They want you to save them. So now I'm a mentor. 463 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: Now I'm a leader, And then I started to feel 464 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 2: a duty to help more than just myself. 465 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: So Marvin went from a young father who couldn't read 466 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: into a man who understands the law, parenting, and leadership 467 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: as only doctor Marvin Cotton Junior can, all while fighting 468 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: for his freedom, which began in the denial of his 469 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: initial appeals and federal habeas So by twenty ten, Marvin 470 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: needed to find new evidence. 471 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 2: I hired a private investigator and he went and talked 472 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 2: to Elis Fraser. Elis Fraser did not know who he was, 473 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: who was working for, and he just revealed everything. 474 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: Fraser said how he initially told Detective Hughes that he 475 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: never saw anyone, but had overheard two men talking. One 476 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: said I wasn't even there man. 477 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 3: Elie Fraser says in an affidavit that the officer in charge, Hughes, 478 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 3: walks him into court and has to explain to him 479 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 3: who these guys are, so he makes sure that he 480 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 3: picks them out and identifies cotton as cotton and doesn't 481 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 3: confuse the guys. 482 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: Fraser also claims that he was promised early release by 483 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: both the detective and prosecutor and was reminded not to 484 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: mention that deal at trial. Then the investigator visited Detective Hughes. 485 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 3: Private investigator who used to be with the Detroit PD, 486 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 3: makes a secret recording with Donald Hughes, the officer in charge, 487 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: and Hughes tells him, Yeah, Lockart hadn't seen anything. This 488 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 3: drug dealer told me, and then I told Lockhart. So 489 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 3: Lockhart's story then lined up with whoever was the suspect 490 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 3: that the drug dealer had identified, and that became Cotton 491 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 3: and Legion and Parks. 492 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: The investigator also visited Lockhart's girlfriend, Renee Tate, about why 493 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: she backed up Lockhart's story at trial, and her answer 494 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: might identify who this drug dealer was. 495 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: She said she was receiving pressure from detectives as well 496 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 2: as the victim family, one of which was the head 497 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 2: of this criminal organization that was pressuring her to come 498 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 2: in and say a particular thing. 499 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 3: Lockhart's girlfriend said that Lockhart never saw anybody, because neither 500 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 3: of them saw anybody. But she won't sign an affidavit 501 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 3: and has basically said, if you subpoena me to testify, 502 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna lie and I say I never said 503 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 3: that because she's terrified of the Johnson crime family. Word 504 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 3: on the curb was that Johnson was the one orchestrating 505 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: all of this. Johnson wanted McIntyre out of there. Santonian Adams, 506 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: the Detroit please officer there at the time of the crime, 507 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 3: who was a nephew of the Johnsons, set McIntyre up, 508 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 3: and maybe Lockhart set McIntyre up too, because think about it, 509 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 3: if he had been in the house, he'd have been killed. 510 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 2: Two. 511 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: If this was just a robbery for drugs, they would 512 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 3: have killed everybody. And so because Cotton and McIntyre are 513 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 3: buddies and doing stuff together, have the cops go get Cotton. 514 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: And that word on the street was corroborated for the 515 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: detectives in this case. Before trial, a. 516 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 3: Guy named Kurt Nerd was living with Lockhart just a 517 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 3: couple weeks later, and Lockhart told him Johnson offered him 518 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars depended on Cotton and Legion, and so 519 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 3: he ended up telling Kurt Neard, I never saw those guys, 520 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 3: but ten thousand dollars a lot of money. Nard went 521 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 3: to a Detroit Police homicide detective, Walter Bates, and told 522 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 3: him exactly what happened. Even gave Bates the handwritten napkins 523 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: that he took notes on after Lockhart told them this. 524 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 3: Bates never turned that evidence over. 525 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: Surprisingly, this Brady material and new evidence didn't make much 526 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: difference on appeal. 527 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 3: The court system is much more focused on procedure than 528 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 3: whether you're innocent or what do you get screwed at trial? 529 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 3: So they submitted their case to the Wayne County Conviction 530 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 3: Integrity Unit, and the CiU took a fresh look at 531 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 3: the case, and then they were able to understand, especially 532 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 3: with this tape that the PI had with Donald Hughes 533 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 3: where Hughes admitted that Lockhart hadn't seen anything. Now you 534 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 3: start getting into a whole lot of police misconduct and 535 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 3: their right to affair trial. They were robbed a due process, 536 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 3: and the CiU came to that conclusion that they couldn't 537 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 3: say one hundred percent that these guys were. 538 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: Innocent, couldn't or wouldn't. 539 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: What they did was they said there was so much 540 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 3: police misconduct they were entitled to a new trial. And 541 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 3: then a Wayne County prosecutor's office realized the flaws with 542 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 3: the case and dismissed the charges. But I think the 543 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 3: new evidence that really rocked this case, other than what 544 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 3: we've talked about, is that the prosecutor's office was very 545 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 3: likely involved in this miscarriage of justice with not allowing 546 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 3: Parks to take the stand because they didn't dismiss the 547 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 3: charges until after this conviction. 548 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,479 Speaker 1: So that was October one, twenty twenty, when Marvin was 549 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: finally able to be an even more present father. 550 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: Now we talked all the time, We text all the time. 551 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 2: My daughter is not a statistic She's twenty seven years old, 552 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: she don't have any children. She's a business owner, she works, 553 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: she's college educated, graduated college early. I got out the 554 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: day before her surprise college graduation celebration. Wow, I was 555 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: able to make that. 556 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: And so you surprised her. 557 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: Oh she came and picked me up from prison for mom. 558 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 2: So she. 559 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: Oh, I love that. When Marvin got out, he continued 560 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: being the leader that he became inside. He and a 561 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: few other men founded the Organization of Exouneries. 562 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 2: The Organization of Exneries is a group of exouneries here 563 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 2: in Michigan. You know, we started coming together as a 564 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 2: support group. Valerie Noman, the director of the Conviction Integrity Unit, 565 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: started bringing all the exuneries together. I think she really 566 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: just wanted to just look in our eyes every month 567 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 2: and make sure we was good, and to start opening 568 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: up resources and finding out what we needed. And you know, 569 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 2: just the way things landed. We got a great group 570 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: of guys that can think and that was motivated and 571 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: wanted to get involved in activism and advocacy, and we 572 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 2: founded the Organization of Exouneries. Because there's so many gaps 573 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 2: when it comes to someone being exonerated. You know, when 574 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: people get out on parole, they do have some access 575 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 2: to resources. But when you're exonerated, everybody washes their hands 576 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 2: and like they go hire lawyers to fight you. But 577 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 2: they're not concerned about your vitem documents. They're not concerned 578 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: about your housing, they're not concerned about therapy, they're not 579 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: concerned about any of these things. Yet we're suffering. We 580 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 2: noticed that a lot of our guys were getting out 581 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 2: and were struggling, taking us several months to get IDs. 582 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 2: Couldn't even cash checks that people have for us because 583 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 2: we couldn't set up a bank account without an ID. 584 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 2: So we went to work creating those resources. So in 585 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 2: our organization here in Michigan, when you get out, we 586 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 2: have a straight line to almost everything you need. We're 587 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 2: gonna put some money in your hands out of our 588 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: Walking Free Fund. I'm usually want to take them shopping 589 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: clothes and cosmetics. 590 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: Where are you getting this money from? 591 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 2: Well, we raise money. We are nonprofit with the five 592 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 2: and one C three. We have gallas every year. I'll 593 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 2: make sure you get to invite before October. We always 594 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: do it in October. But we raised money We've made 595 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 2: a lot of friends that really wants to see us successful. 596 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: And we also apply for grants to make sure that 597 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 2: we can so for our people to where we can 598 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 2: do reparow services for exigneries here in Michigan. As you know, 599 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 2: we travel around the country doing advocacy though it helps 600 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 2: some people out in other states. 601 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are really such an amazing support group. 602 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: So you Ken Nixon, Eric Anderson really cultivated this amazing 603 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: group of exguneries that you travel. I mean recently, a 604 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: good friend of mine being from New York, Andre Brown, 605 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: his conviction was vacated, but the prosecution was fighting that 606 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: and trying to send him back to prison, and that 607 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: looked like it was something that was going to happen 608 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: after he had been out for a few years at 609 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: this point with his family and his son, and you 610 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: guys flew from Detroit to the Bronx to support Andre. 611 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: You do things like that, and you know, coming up 612 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: in Detroit, drell Ewing is having the same situation happened 613 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: to him right now. Are you guys going to be 614 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: there to support Durell? 615 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, in Michigan, as you know, it's a lot 616 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 2: more progressive here. We have a lot of allies that 617 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 2: work within the criminal justice system as well as allies 618 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: that's outside the criminal justice system. You know, there's more 619 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 2: of a willingness than it is just to oppose. Do 620 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,479 Speaker 2: opposition happen? Absolutely, dreil Ewing very brilliant guy, growing into 621 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 2: a great organizer as well, and he's organizing an event 622 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 2: around his case. Definitely support Derail Union. 623 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: We will link to info about Derell's mobilization event, his Instagram, 624 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: and our coverage of his case in the episode description. 625 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: Please scroll down and get involved. We cannot let this 626 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: clearly innocent man be dragged back to prison for the 627 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: sake of a finality and conviction. We so hope those 628 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: in power are called to do the right thing. And 629 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: we're also going to link to Marvin's books as well 630 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: of some of his other work. 631 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: The entire time that I was in prison, I was 632 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 2: planning the day that I walked out of prison, even 633 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: though it felt differently different than the way I plan 634 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 2: but all of my structural plans with setting up my life, 635 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 2: starting a business, being a motivational speaker, being an author 636 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 2: of not one but two books, I knew everything that 637 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 2: I would do and I knew how I. 638 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: Would do it, Doctor Cotton, Where did the doctor come from? 639 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 2: I have an honorary doctorate in humanities from a university 640 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: that wastow to honor on me. Because of the work 641 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 2: that I do and the people that I help, I'm 642 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: considered to be an expert in humanitarian work. Some of 643 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 2: the things we talked about today. I service not only 644 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 2: people that were wrongfully convicted, but also people that were 645 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 2: directly impacted by the criminal justice system and deserve a 646 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 2: second chance. And I try to make sure that they 647 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 2: second chance is something that society can benefit from. 648 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: I have in my notes that you have helped get 649 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: twenty nine people out of prison. Is that an accurate number? 650 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 2: Yes, both both innocent and those that deserve a second 651 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 2: I do commutation packages, parole packages. I walk them through 652 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 2: the entire process. I have other experts that I partner with, 653 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,240 Speaker 2: but support letters, but resources. We outline what their life 654 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 2: is going to look like if they have the privilege 655 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 2: of being released early. Now, if somebody refuse to see 656 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 2: that people are redeemable, that's more of a them issue 657 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 2: and it has nothing to do with the person. I 658 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 2: mean people all the time that refuse to forgive. Imagine 659 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: me refusing to forgive my biological father. And there's people 660 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: in my family that's upset that I deal with them 661 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 2: that were directly impacted by him. But he's clean, he's 662 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: off drugs, he doesn't drink, he goes to church, he 663 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 2: goes to therapy for the first time in his life. 664 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 2: He's good for him. Who am I to have a 665 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 2: forever judgment when God is still working and bringing beautiful 666 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 2: things out of his life. Now, I'm just not willing 667 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 2: to put a period on someone before God put a 668 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 2: period on them. 669 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: Doctor Marvincotton Jr. Thank you so much for speaking with 670 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: me and sharing your story. Is there anything else that 671 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: we missed? You want to say to the listeners. 672 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 2: If you have a loved one that you believe has 673 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 2: been wrongfully convicted and you're really trying to help and 674 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 2: serve them and you just don't know how. Now, I 675 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 2: can't tell you what to do, and I'm not even 676 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 2: giving you advice. I'm not a lawyer. Let me say 677 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 2: that I'm not an attorney, but just know that there's 678 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 2: things you can do that will help you in the 679 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: battle with this beast number one. This is my personal policy. 680 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 2: I like to refrain from attacks. So I know it 681 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 2: feels good and it feels natural to attack the police officers, 682 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 2: to attack the prosecutor, attack the judge. But just remember 683 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 2: you dealing with human beings and nobody likes to be attacked. 684 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 2: You can get more things out of a human being 685 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 2: by treatment. With their respect doesn't mean you can't hold 686 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 2: people accountable. We love our children, we hold them accountable. 687 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 2: We don't abuse our children. But you can hold people 688 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 2: accountable without being abusive. Build relationships. Go to coffee hours. 689 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 2: Go see what politicians are talking about. Go see what 690 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 2: the person is running for, prosecutors talking about. Go sit 691 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 2: in an audience, stand up, ask questions, Ask them about 692 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 2: wrongful convictions, Ask them about cases that they've worked on. 693 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 2: That's number one. Number two, start from the beginning. Learn 694 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 2: about freedom information acts requests. Send it to the prosecutor 695 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 2: office so that you can get files. Because oftentimes we're 696 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: wrongful convictions. You have information that's hitting in files that 697 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 2: was never turned over. It can be a single sheet 698 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 2: of paper that can lead to freeing your loved one 699 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 2: from a wrongful conviction. So start from the beginning. Of course, 700 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 2: it's always good to support financially if you can afford 701 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 2: a private investigator, I would say a private investigator even 702 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 2: over an attorney, especially if you're trying to get the 703 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,919 Speaker 2: wheels to start turning, look at private investigators that worked 704 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 2: on innocent cases before. If you're trying to figure out 705 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 2: what attorney to get, look at attorneys that work on 706 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 2: innocent cases. It is a difference between a good attorney 707 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 2: and an attorney that works on innocent cases. They come 708 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 2: from a certain pedigree. They have the energy, they have 709 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 2: the passion. They love to spend all this energy on 710 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 2: a single case because that's what it's take in order 711 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 2: to free somebody that's been wrongfully convicted. So if you 712 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 2: really want to help your love one out, send them letters, 713 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 2: be supportive. The institution needs to know that they have 714 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 2: somebody that loved them. Send cards, send letters, send messages, 715 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 2: let them call every now and then if you can 716 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 2: afford it. But on the legal front, there's little things 717 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 2: that you can do to be helpful and to just 718 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 2: get that ball to roll. 719 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Conviction with Maggie Freeling. I'd 720 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 1: like to thank our production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, 721 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: as well as executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wortis, 722 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: and Jeff Clyburn. The music in this production was supplied 723 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure 724 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: to follow us across all social media platforms at Lava 725 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow 726 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with 727 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts 728 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number One. 729 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 3: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported 730 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 3: in this show are accurate. 731 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in 732 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 2: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect 733 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 2: those of Lava for Good