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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three seventy of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation

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Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors. When a therapist decided

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Speaker 1: to terminate with a client, it may bring up lots

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Speaker 1: of feeling for the client around shame, embarrassment, and rejection.

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Speaker 1: Online you may have seen people referring to the termination

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Speaker 1: as being quote unquote fired by their therapist. Let's dig

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Speaker 1: into this a little bit more and explore the reasons

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Speaker 1: why a therapist might terminate with a client. So they've

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Speaker 1: both been on the podcast before, I'd like to reintroduce

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Speaker 1: you to today's guests, doctor Donna Orioo and doctor DeAndrea Jackson.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Orioo is an award winning DEI Advocate, international speaker

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Speaker 1: and certified sex and relationship therapist in the Washington, DC

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Speaker 1: metro area. Doctor Jackson is a licensed clinical psychologist, psychological consultant,

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Speaker 1: and mental health speaker committed to reducing mental health stigma

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Speaker 1: and minority communities and empowering women toward the fulfillment of

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Speaker 1: their potential. In our conversation today, we discuss some of

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Speaker 1: the reasons why a therapist might terminate with a client,

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Speaker 1: strategies for dealing with any feelings of rejection that may

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Speaker 1: come up after a therapist terminates with you, and how

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Speaker 1: to become comfortable with the idea of one day graduating

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Speaker 1: from therapy. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: TBG in session or join us in the sister circle

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Speaker 1: to talk more about the episode. You can join us

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Speaker 1: at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. Well,

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to be chatting with both of

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Speaker 1: you again. So you both have been guests on the

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Speaker 1: podcast a number of times before, but for those who

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Speaker 1: may not have faught you on the podcast, will you

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Speaker 1: introduce yourself and let it let us know your area

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Speaker 1: of practice, where you are, and what you specialize in.

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Speaker 1: So we'll start with you, doctor Orio.

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Speaker 2: Will I am doctor Donna Warrio. I'm a sex and

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Speaker 2: relationship therapist in the Washington, DC metro area. Specialty and

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Speaker 2: how colorism and texturalism impact mental and sexual health. I

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Speaker 2: like to say I help women feel free, fabulous and

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Speaker 2: if you know, keep it clean at least to start.

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Speaker 3: And I am doctor DeAndre Jackson. I'm from the DC area,

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Speaker 3: but I'm on Midwest for you guys, I am currently

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Speaker 3: in Indiana, but I further clients in Leana, Virginia, Maryland

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Speaker 3: and the final Missigan. So you can find me wherever

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Speaker 3: you need to find me and we can meet in

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Speaker 3: therapy uses online because fella health is my niche a

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Speaker 3: specialize in any voluntary depression and trauma lad VISHI and

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Speaker 3: working with black women is nothing beautiful.

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Speaker 1: So what have both of you been up to? Is

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Speaker 1: there anything new that's been going on since we last

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Speaker 1: talked that you want to share with the world.

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Speaker 2: I'm writing a book what comes out in January? More like,

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Speaker 2: I finished writing and now I'm in that herrowing editing process.

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Speaker 2: They send me things with so much red on it

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Speaker 2: that it gives me heart palpitations. And then I realized, oh,

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Speaker 2: those notes are not for me.

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Speaker 1: Well, congrats, I'm very excited for that. And what about you,

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Speaker 1: doctor Jackson.

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Speaker 3: I'm over here just trying to expand this practice and

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Speaker 3: find more opportunities to make a difference in women's lass

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Speaker 3: So I'm open for.

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Speaker 1: Both beautiful beautiful. So there have been lots of conversations

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Speaker 1: on social media, I feel like recently but also just

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Speaker 1: throughout time. I feel like I've seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: commentary around clients talking about their therapists firing them. And

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Speaker 1: I always bristle when I see that language, because the

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Speaker 1: language feels very harsh, though I think I understand what

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Speaker 1: people mean when they are saying this. So when you

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Speaker 1: hear or see these kinds of conversations, what is your

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Speaker 1: reaction to this kind of conversation around clients being fired

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Speaker 1: by their therapists?

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Speaker 2: Why did you get fired? What reason did the therapist

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Speaker 2: give for releasing you to your destiny? Because sometimes I

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Speaker 2: think some people are using fired like they don't mess

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Speaker 2: with you no more, when in reality they mean like, uh,

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Speaker 2: you got promoted, you got a new job, now you

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Speaker 2: got a new boss. Now you don't work it no more,

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Speaker 2: which is not the same thing as being fired.

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Speaker 3: I wonder the same thing. But I wonder have you

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Speaker 3: reached your therapy to roles and now have time to

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Speaker 3: move on? And we're having difficulty detaching from that therapy relationship?

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Speaker 3: Is it not have to say anymore because ethically.

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Speaker 2: We can't keep treating you.

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Speaker 3: We're not here to have coffee with you and be

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Speaker 3: your friend. That's tade. So I also wonder is it

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Speaker 3: time to look forward and finish your work maybe with

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Speaker 3: somebody else. Have you reached the capacity of the something

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Speaker 3: she feels that to be able to provide you with me?

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Speaker 3: Or have you this resolved?

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Speaker 1: That is, both of you are bringing up excellent points

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Speaker 1: that I would love for us to talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about. What are some of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: a therapist would decide that either it is no longer

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Speaker 1: a good fit or that like the work is done.

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Speaker 1: Can you both talk more about that?

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Speaker 3: So if you're no longer a good fit, I think

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Speaker 3: sometimes we have to be reasonable at pinicians, we can't

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Speaker 3: solve everything for everybody. They don't have the appropriate skill

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Speaker 3: set for every problem, and so a lot of them

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Speaker 3: may have come into therapy for one hue that may

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Speaker 3: have been addressed and may have fit the therapist's skill set.

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Speaker 3: New things may arise that may require a different theoretical

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Speaker 3: approach or different interventions that your clinician has not been

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Speaker 3: trained them. And so if they're saying, I gotta let

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Speaker 3: you go and maybe I need to give you a

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Speaker 3: warm handoff to somebody else, that would be them being aware,

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Speaker 3: self aware and not wanting to be hard to you

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Speaker 3: to be sure. If they are affected right and they're knowledgeable,

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Speaker 3: they're competent, that would be my thought around is it

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Speaker 3: still a good bet? Another good fit question is have

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Speaker 3: there been boundaries that have been across as a client,

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Speaker 3: cross boundaries that a therapists and the therapist they cross

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Speaker 3: some their own boundaries that they're no longer feeling like

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Speaker 3: being with are appropriate ethically for the particular episode of care.

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Speaker 3: And then lastly, I was saying, have you just resolved there?

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Speaker 2: Issually?

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Speaker 3: Have you come in for one thing and that issue

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Speaker 3: that's been addressed and developed the skills, and your therapist

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Speaker 3: is given that intervention is to develop insight, relaxation, or

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Speaker 3: whatever the appropriate approach to therapy. And doctor oh, what

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Speaker 3: has given you the appropriate skills that you need to

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Speaker 3: feel fabulous free? And so it's time to move on.

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Speaker 3: I graduate from therapy.

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Speaker 1: So, doctor O, when you responded to the question, you

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Speaker 1: talked about releasing you to your destiny, which I think

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Speaker 1: is a very different framing of the idea than firing.

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Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear from you, like, what are

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Speaker 1: some reasons why the therapists may decide that it is

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Speaker 1: no longer a good fit.

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Speaker 2: Well, I start off in the very first session talking

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Speaker 2: about termination, and I say that there are multiple reasons

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Speaker 2: why therapy between us made terminate. One of them is

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Speaker 2: if I die. Because that's weird. I'm gonna keep coming

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Speaker 2: to therapy. That's weird. I know it's making light of

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Speaker 2: my own death, but I figure one day is going

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Speaker 2: to happen, so I might as well make a light now.

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Speaker 2: But beyond that, I'm just like sometimes, and I tell

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Speaker 2: them this in the first session, sometimes we think we're

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Speaker 2: ready for therapy and we're not. And the thing that

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Speaker 2: will let me know that you're not ready to be here.

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Speaker 2: Is if you are constantly late, you're constantly canceling life.

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Speaker 2: Circumstances never seem to line up to your therapy schedule.

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Speaker 2: We are constantly having to move your appointment and you're

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Speaker 2: still not making it. It just means that right now,

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Speaker 2: in this season, at these moments, that you don't have

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Speaker 2: the time, space, or energy to dedicate to the type

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Speaker 2: of work that therapy requires. It doesn't mean that something

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Speaker 2: is wrong with you. It just means that circumstances at

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Speaker 2: this moment are not what they need to be in

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Speaker 2: order for you to be successful here. And what I've

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Speaker 2: nothing had nobody do is spend all this money and

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Speaker 2: then it doesn't give what it's supposed to give. Because

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Speaker 2: if you can't make it to therapy, then that means

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Speaker 2: you can't do the work outside of therapy. Because as

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Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, therapy is not the work. Therapy

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Speaker 2: is the way to the work. And the work that

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Speaker 2: you're really gonna do is going to happen when we

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Speaker 2: get off, when you're no longer in the chair, when

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Speaker 2: you are now outside again, having to use the tools

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Speaker 2: that we've talked about, doing the thinking, having the conversations.

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Speaker 2: That's when you're going to do the work. But if

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Speaker 2: you can't even get to the place where you would

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Speaker 2: get the work, then you're probably not going to have

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Speaker 2: the time to do the work. So the time match

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Speaker 2: is just off and that's okay, come back later. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, goals have been reached. What more do

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Speaker 2: you want? Do you have new goals? Because we can

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Speaker 2: talk about new goals, we can read up on some goals.

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Speaker 2: But I find that sometimes people are just very used

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Speaker 2: to the cadence of having been in therapy, and I'm

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Speaker 2: just like, hey, number one, I'm not your friend, I'm

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Speaker 2: your therapist. And number two, this is an expensive friendship.

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Speaker 2: If it was one, I'm like, this is not how

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Speaker 2: we gonna spend money. So for me, I ease my

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Speaker 2: clients back because it helps them to prepare for a

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Speaker 2: time where they're no longer there. So you saw me weekly,

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Speaker 2: Now every other week is what you're gonna see me.

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Speaker 2: And on those off weeks, I want you to take

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Speaker 2: the time to do something that is for your mental, emotional,

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Speaker 2: or physical well being. I don't care what it is,

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Speaker 2: but that same time it's gonna be now dedicated to

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Speaker 2: something else. So go get a massage, cook your dinner

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Speaker 2: with your own two hands. I don't know clean your bathroom.

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Speaker 2: Did you wash it? But today go wash it, have

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Speaker 2: a bubble bath. Do the things that sort of restore you.

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Speaker 2: That way that they are continuing to do restorative practices

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Speaker 2: at the same time slot, so that they feel less

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Speaker 2: need to constantly be in therapy beyond their expiration date.

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Speaker 2: So I mean I am releasing you to your destiny.

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Speaker 2: I didn't fire you. I'm telling you that I think

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Speaker 2: that you're ready, but I'm not going to kick you

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Speaker 2: out before you're feeling good to go. It just means

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Speaker 2: that we may need more skills, We may need more

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Speaker 2: tools in the toolbox that you can reach for during

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Speaker 2: the same time slot so that you can get into

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Speaker 2: the habit of No. I don't see doctor Donna, but

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Speaker 2: I do still have things that I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jackson. I'm really glad that you talked about like

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Speaker 1: this idea that clients may sometimes need things that we

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Speaker 1: are not trained in. And I think this is most

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Speaker 1: often when I see the firing conversation, right that the

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Speaker 1: therapist feels like maybe you are requiring a higher level

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Speaker 1: of care or you need some kind of interventions or

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Speaker 1: things that you may not be trained in. Can you

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about when this might happen and

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Speaker 1: how you explain this to clients, because I think what

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Speaker 1: often happens is like people their rejection stuff gets activated

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Speaker 1: right when they hear like, oh, I'm too much. I

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Speaker 1: think that's what they're hearing. So can you talk about

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Speaker 1: like how you have this conversation with clients and when

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Speaker 1: you might recognize as a therapist that somebody is beyond

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Speaker 1: your kind of scope of service.

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Speaker 3: I'll start and go backwards, so I recognize when someone's

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Speaker 3: beyond my scope of service when I'm doing that reflective

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Speaker 3: practice and I'm really stretching and I'm feeling like we've

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Speaker 3: been over this. We've been over that strategy, We've been

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Speaker 3: over this psycho education, We've been over this still set.

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Speaker 3: I've applied some adjunctive therapies. I've recommended some augmentive things

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Speaker 3: as if like we've tried medication and and we tried

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Speaker 3: to I keep coming. Sure we try diatromatic breath and relaxation,

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Speaker 3: all these other skills for strategies that can be found

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Speaker 3: outside and practice outside as a therapy session. But if

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Speaker 3: now we're reaching around, we've knew me a little bit more,

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Speaker 3: and in my reflective practice, I feel like a brassing

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Speaker 3: at straws. Y've exhausted the here supervisions, I say, handling

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Speaker 3: missing something, what else might be applicable here? If I'm

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Speaker 3: going beyond that and I still can't put my finger

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Speaker 3: on the issue, that maybe time for a referral. And

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Speaker 3: in those cases then I have frank conversations with reflients.

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Speaker 3: I don't know everything. I know a lot about a

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Speaker 3: little bit of something, because that's what our training for

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Speaker 3: care is us to do. For those of us who

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Speaker 3: go on to get additional certifications or credentials and different

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Speaker 3: approaches to therapy, we know a little bit more about

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Speaker 3: a couple other things. For instance, in the case of

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Speaker 3: a trauma case, if I've exhausted my skills, whereas cognitive

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Speaker 3: processing therapy or prolonged exposure or trauma informed abut as

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Speaker 3: you do. If we're still not reaching what needs to

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Speaker 3: be taken care of, then I may say, hey, I

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Speaker 3: know the different approach to therapy that may be helpful

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Speaker 3: for you. Now that therapy is brands bid me or

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Speaker 3: mdr or art right, and I'll provide them with a

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Speaker 3: little bit of Fechtil education around that, and I'll explain

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Speaker 3: I'm not trained in that, that's not my feel set.

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Speaker 3: But what I can do is help find a warm

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Speaker 3: handoff for you for someone who does have that training,

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Speaker 3: so you can feel confident that this particular approach to

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Speaker 3: therapy will work for you, and if it does not,

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Speaker 3: you always will come back here for additional support and

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Speaker 3: reupping on some of the skills that we have discussed

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Speaker 3: over time if you need a little bit of maintenance therapy.

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Speaker 3: But at this point, this particular element is no longer

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Speaker 3: in my fill set, and are gotta let you go

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Speaker 3: to somebody else who can care for you along the way.

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Speaker 3: And so I often drop on my clients through about

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Speaker 3: visiting a journey, and we don't always reach the end

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Speaker 3: of our therapy growth or journey with the person that

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Speaker 3: is part of them, and that's absolutely okay. So with

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Speaker 3: vally space for the fact that there may be somebody

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Speaker 3: else lets to pick up the giants from here and

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Speaker 3: timpany walking with you.

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Speaker 2: I love what you said, doctor Jackson. I think that

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Speaker 2: I'm in a space now where it's gonna sound a

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Speaker 2: little mean, as quiet as it's kept. I think that

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Speaker 2: a lot of therapists are very much practicing beyond their

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Speaker 2: scope of practice, especially in areas where they don't see

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Speaker 2: it as a big deal. So I'm a sex therapist,

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Speaker 2: and everybody thinks that they could do what a sex

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Speaker 2: therapist do because everybody's having sex. And my friend Goody

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Speaker 2: would say, just because you can eat that cake, don't

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Speaker 2: mean you know how to make that cake. It's not

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Speaker 2: the same skill set. But everybody believes that because they're

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Speaker 2: outside having sex, because they have a delicious sex life,

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Speaker 2: that that means that they are equipped to do that

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Speaker 2: type of work. Same thing with relationship work. And I

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Speaker 2: think that that is the downplane that happens within the

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Speaker 2: field of what someone else's scope of practice is. So

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Speaker 2: I like that. I mean the first thing you said

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Speaker 2: is like, hey, if I can't do it, then I

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Speaker 2: gotta recommend you to go somewhere else, because I think

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Speaker 2: some people are low key, high key keeping people because

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Speaker 2: they're trying to maintain a dollar amount in their pocket,

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Speaker 2: even if it means that they are out of their depth.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, I love that, doctor. Oh, can you say more

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Speaker 1: about how somebody might recognize that?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Because I think it could be that people are concerned

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Speaker 1: about their revenue, But I think probably what happens more

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Speaker 1: often is that people don't recognize like you said, right,

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Speaker 1: like it's even like, oh, oh, I'm trained as a therapist,

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Speaker 1: and so I can do all of these things. Will

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Speaker 1: we know that we cannot do all the things? So

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Speaker 1: what signs can people pay attention to? Or what questions

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Speaker 1: should they be asking themselves to assess whether they're operating

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Speaker 1: outside of their scope of practice?

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Speaker 2: Do I know what I'm doing? Do I know what

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about? Do I feel comfortable doing the thing

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Speaker 2: that I'm doing? If I were me, would I see

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Speaker 2: me for this problem? Sometimes I think if we just

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Speaker 2: start with that one, if I were you, would I

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Speaker 2: see me for this problem? Or is there someone that

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Speaker 2: is better equipped? Would I be looking for someone better equipped?

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Speaker 2: Because if you're saying yes, then stop practicing outside the

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Speaker 2: scope of your practice. If you don't know what you're doing,

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Speaker 2: It's okay to admit that you don't know. It's okay

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Speaker 2: to say that you know what I got this, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't get that, and then to move accordingly. Like

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Speaker 2: I get a lot of second third hand therapy clients

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Speaker 2: who have tried to do sex therapy work with a

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Speaker 2: non sex therapist clinician who did not know what they

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Speaker 2: were talking about and did untold damage to that person

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Speaker 2: things like oh, well, if you're having pain oring sex,

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Speaker 2: you need to push through because what you want to

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Speaker 2: do another woman will. And I'm just like, did you

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Speaker 2: say that allowed to a client? Or when it comes

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Speaker 2: to people who are discordant who don't have the same

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Speaker 2: sex drive, saying like, well, you got to meet your

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Speaker 2: partner where they are, they're up here, you need to

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Speaker 2: meet them up here. That's not true, and that you

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Speaker 2: don't know what's not true tells me that this is

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Speaker 2: outside of your scope of work. So if you were them,

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Speaker 2: would you see you for this problem? Ask the question

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Speaker 2: have I received any type of training in this area?

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Speaker 2: Do I feel comfortable when I am doing this type

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Speaker 2: of work? If I were asked to give a presentation

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Speaker 2: one hour on this thing this week in two days,

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Speaker 2: could I do it? Do I know enough with no

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Speaker 2: prep to do it right now? Because usually that tells

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Speaker 2: you everything that you need to know, and usually it's

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Speaker 2: that you're out of your depth.

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Speaker 1: Great points. Thank you so much for the doctor, Oh

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Speaker 1: doctor Jackson, you mentioned the idea of a warm handoff

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Speaker 1: several times. Can you say, would that be? What is

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Speaker 1: a warm handoff?

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Speaker 3: That's such clinical speed. That is when a therapist can

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Speaker 3: connect with another therapist and say, hey, I think this

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Speaker 3: person will be a good fit for you. It's a

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Speaker 3: warm referral, right, somebody not the need to the therapist

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Speaker 3: directory to say, lu could you buying on here, but

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Speaker 3: actually getting you the name, a contract and office number,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes depending on the level of care. I've even

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Speaker 3: in practice previously provided a warm handoff where we can

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Speaker 3: schedule a couple of sessions right ahead of time where

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Speaker 3: we're beginning to introduce the new therapist, and the therapist

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Speaker 3: may come in if it's the end of a conversation,

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Speaker 3: just to meet you and get a sense of who

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Speaker 3: you are and what some of the issues are. We'll

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Speaker 3: talk with that in therapist together about the work that

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Speaker 3: we've done. That's a I consider it to be a

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Speaker 3: warm hand I love a good warm hand on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel trickier to do, like in private practice,

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Speaker 1: and it sounds like you two Duck and Jackson have

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Speaker 1: been in other agencies. We did that a lot in

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Speaker 1: like college counseling, right, like when the end of the

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Speaker 1: intern year happened or whatever, and so you would meet

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Speaker 1: the new therapists that you would be working with. It

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Speaker 1: is a little trickier in private practice, but I think

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Speaker 1: also very worthy if you can figure out the logistics,

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Speaker 1: just because it does feel much more like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: in good hands, like my current therapist is suggesting this

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Speaker 1: new person to me. I think it also helps to

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Speaker 1: cut down on some of that like I got to

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Speaker 1: read tell the entire story right like that they can

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Speaker 1: trust that there's been a little bit of information share.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they have access to the files if they've signed

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Speaker 1: a release for that to happen. So I do think

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Speaker 1: as much as possible, if that can happen, it does

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Speaker 1: vode better for a nice transition.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that was in an interdisciplinary sector, so it

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Speaker 3: was a lot easier to do up there in private practice.

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Speaker 3: I have also offered Harry get here new provider or

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Speaker 3: release some information. I'd love to schedule the time to

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Speaker 3: speak with them to sell them in on the work

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Speaker 3: that we have done. So even if it's not I

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Speaker 3: know exactly whose person is a melangle all or these sets,

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Speaker 3: if you find somebody else that you think you want

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Speaker 3: to work with. And often those times when I'm referring clients,

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Speaker 3: I'll try to find a good profile that fits with

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Speaker 3: demographics final this client appreciates, or a skill set or

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Speaker 3: a degree level that this client as comfortable with. I

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Speaker 3: do a lot of these diligence when I'm making a referral.

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Speaker 3: So even if I don't know this person formally, or

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Speaker 3: even if I haven't interacted with this person, I know

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Speaker 3: enough about their skill sets. If they this may be

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Speaker 3: something that can assist you, and I'm happy to talk

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Speaker 3: to that provider to fill in any gaps that you

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Speaker 3: may have overlooked in your conversation or in your an sage,

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Speaker 3: and to give them a provider's per sective of the

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Speaker 3: work that we've been with.

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Speaker 2: I love that I do similar specifically with the people

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Speaker 2: that I have that are high on my referral list.

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Speaker 2: So I have multiple tiered referral lists. So if I

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Speaker 2: don't have a feel for the clinician, I don't call

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Speaker 2: it a warm hand off. At that point, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know this person either, so good luck out

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Speaker 2: there in the streets. But anyone who has made it

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Speaker 2: onto my referral list, it's because I have an idea

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Speaker 2: of their personality, their work. We've had a discussion, and

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Speaker 2: we have a referral process between us, so being able

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Speaker 2: to help a client move from me to someone else

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Speaker 2: or from that someone else to me, it becomes easier

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Speaker 2: because we'll sign all the requisite paperwork. They and I

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Speaker 2: will meet one on one. If they can come to

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Speaker 2: the first couple of sessions or I can come to

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Speaker 2: the last few sessions, then we do that as well.

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Speaker 2: And I think that it just makes for an easier

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Speaker 2: transition for our parties, including whoever the therapist that you're leaving,

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Speaker 2: because I think that people be forgetting that we like

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Speaker 2: you too. We got to know you, we like you,

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Speaker 2: and we are also in our own sort of space

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Speaker 2: of more or grief about the closing out of that

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Speaker 2: therapeutic relationship, so it ain't just them, like you got

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Speaker 2: released to your destiny. And I'm sad.

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Speaker 1: I think that's such an important point. And I want

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Speaker 1: to follow up on something you said before, doctor Oriowoll,

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Speaker 1: this idea that sometimes like you graduate therapy right like

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Speaker 1: you have all the skills you need, you met all

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Speaker 1: the goals you said you wanted to, and we know

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Speaker 1: that there's still sometimes of reluctance, right, like you said,

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Speaker 1: because maybe it fits easy in your schedule, like it's

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Speaker 1: something that you become accustomed to. Can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how you work with clients when they

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Speaker 1: are feeling like reluctant to graduate from therapy?

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Speaker 2: Oh, we get into it, we do. So. I usually

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Speaker 2: just like, okay, so what do you see your goals

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Speaker 2: as and do you think your goals are met? I'm like, yes,

435
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: but I'm not ready. I'm like, okay, what does ready

436
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: look like? What does ready sound like? What is ready

437
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 2: feel like? What would it taste like? What would your

438
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: wallet say about ready? I'm like, let's involve your wallet

439
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 2: in and of this conversation, because you the one that

440
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 2: want to keep paying me, so your wallet needs to

441
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: be part of this conversation too. So we talk a

442
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: little bit about what readiness looks like and how much

443
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: of it is fear of leaving and what that fear

444
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 2: is tied to. So I like to remind clients that

445
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: I'm not closing my practice anytime soon, So if they

446
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: need to come back within the next year, chances are

447
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be here. And if for whatever reason, I

448
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: am unavailable, number one. I made room for my old heads.

449
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 2: They already know this. I'm going like, oh, you moved

450
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: to the top of whatever list. If there's a waiting list,

451
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: you're number one on the waiting list, because I already

452
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: know you'll neve already worked with you. And if I

453
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 2: can't do it, then I will warm hand you to

454
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: someone who can, who I think will be able to

455
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 2: do right by you. But I usually have to remind

456
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: them that I'm still here. I ain't going nowhere. I

457
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: asked them to try it out right, Like it's like

458
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 2: trying to introduce somebody to a new food, like maybe

459
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,239
Speaker 2: don't order a whole plate of it. I'm gonna order

460
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 2: a plate and you can have a wing. Let me

461
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 2: know if the sauce is to your taste or what

462
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 2: it happen. So I'm just like, okay, two weeks, I

463
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 2: don't want to see you. I'll see you in three weeks.

464
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: How did it feel not to be in therapy. Let's

465
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: process that piece. What did you do with the time?

466
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: Who did you spend time with? And I let them

467
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: know that if you want, you could just make maintenance

468
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: therapy appointments. I could see you once every two months.

469
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: Some people. They'll be like, well, I want to see

470
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: you once a month. I'm like, okay, you can see

471
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: me once a month. I'll see you once a month.

472
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: But then they start remembering what life is like outside

473
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: of therapy and they will release themselves to their destiny too.

474
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: What about you, Donkey Jackson, What does this process toically

475
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: look like for you?

476
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 3: I think we've discussed before in the one point of

477
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,959
Speaker 3: time and another career out in the Navy, and one

478
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 3: of my supervisors that I was gratulating from his signship

479
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: gave me, I think the best advice that I try

480
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 3: to tell my clients as I lead into the influent

481
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 3: percent and all that, and that's that I'm trying to

482
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: work myself out of the job. I don't want to

483
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: see you forever, and you don't want to see me

484
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 3: forever either. If that's the case, we are doing something.

485
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 3: It is my goal to give you all the knowledge

486
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 3: and information that I have. I'm trying to pour into

487
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: you this doctorate degree that I got so that you

488
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: can move on and live life. Maybe released tea doesn't

489
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: right at that part, but I like that doctor row

490
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: that might start saying, and and so with that in mind,

491
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: I'm always reminding my clients and trying to work myself

492
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: out of the job. And so when I see them

493
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: becoming more selful and I see them being more intentional

494
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 3: or reflective, or they're building their insights and putting things together,

495
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: I always comments on that like oof, you got go

496
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 3: do working myself out of the job, so that I'm

497
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: reminding them the goal is not for us to heat

498
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 3: together indefinitely, but for them to have all the recognition

499
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: that I have to make is so confident living life.

500
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: But you might have like, oh, I remember just how

501
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: doctor Jackson would have said that that's great, but you

502
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 3: don't have to meet with me every week to hear

503
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 3: me say it. And so myss way back for all

504
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 3: the stretched my clients file, and most of them when

505
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 3: we need every TV because very quickly and then at

506
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 3: times goes up, we would and stretched those sessions out

507
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 3: for them further. And if we've been doing monthly sessions

508
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: for more than three months, more than sixth month, then

509
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: we're looking at we need to stretch youse out some more.

510
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: There's still a bit of addiction ment blod therapy and

511
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 3: my perspective, and flo'd like to stretch this foul. And

512
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: I've had clients who refus that, and I have conversations

513
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 3: with them about okay, well, next time, I went to

514
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 3: the lead with what you did build through between sessions,

515
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 3: what went well between sessions? What stretched you and made

516
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: you think about what it was that you learned in

517
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 3: therapy that you needed to apply. Or I'll say, you

518
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: know what, I didn't get to reach out saying that

519
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 3: you needed some coaching. We're saying that you needed some support.

520
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 3: So fill me in on how you got through all

521
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 3: this time, and I lead the conversation in the next

522
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 3: session with the strength that they apply to stay in

523
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 3: that space and not with fire therapy between that way

524
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 3: it calls up to the front of their mind. This

525
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: is what I've been doing sixty five and stealth, and

526
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: they adults have to be in this office once a

527
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 3: mob what every two months. I've got clients to come

528
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: with every three months. And I'll have with that and

529
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 3: I'll say that I.

530
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: Love that, and is so doughe We here trying to

531
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 2: we gotta fire ourselves because sometimes they won't fire us properly.

532
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, okay, we're gonna fire each other.

533
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: We are We talked a little bit about this idea

534
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: of firing, right, Like, even though that's not a word

535
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: we necessarily use, we typically use the language that cliencies right.

536
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: So if they say they've been fired, I'm sure we're exploring, like, well,

537
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: that sounds strong. Tell me what happened, right, Like what

538
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: happened when you were fired? But let's say you do

539
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: have somebody and doctor, oh, you already mentioned that you

540
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: are somebody who sees a lot of like I've had

541
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: a therapist before, and now you're like, they're second or

542
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: third the therapist. How are you working with a client

543
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: who does have some rejection feelings from maybe their previous therapists.

544
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: So maybe they went somewhere else and they thought that

545
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: they could do a good job of sex therapy and

546
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: realize they didn't know what they were doing, or this

547
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: person actually wasn't a good fit until now they end

548
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: up in your office. But do still feel rejected from

549
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: this other therapist? How might you work with them?

550
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: We heal the thing that they heart first, right, so

551
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: we talk about what's the difference between malicious and what's

552
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: not malicious, but recognizing that harm still happens even when

553
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: someone didn't do it on purpose. There's usually a lot

554
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: of self blame in that space, like, well, I chose

555
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: this person, so I'm to blame. So we are working

556
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: on self forgiveness and reminding that you know what you

557
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: know and then when you know more, you do more,

558
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: like when you know better, you do better, and allowing

559
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: people to be in a space of evolution that they

560
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: got you to a point. What point did they get

561
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: you to? What did you get from this experience that

562
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 2: wasn't horrible? Let's talk about those pieces that were not

563
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: so great and how we can marry that into the

564
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 2: work that you are ultimately coming here to do, so

565
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: that you're still getting what you needed without having to

566
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: process through only what happened in this last place. So

567
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: I think I'm ending up doing like a both and

568
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: sort of work. It's like, what did you want overall?

569
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: And what pieces are further harmed because of where you

570
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: were right? So I never want to throw away what

571
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: other therapists have done, because just because the therapist is

572
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: harmed you doesn't mean that they are necessarily a bad

573
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: therapist in all respects of the word. Like it sounds

574
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: like they were really great about anxiety, they were really

575
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: great about the trauma they were really great about this,

576
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: but they weren't so great about that, and I remind

577
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: them that that's okay, and that I try to help

578
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: place it back in context. I think that we take

579
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: a lot of of our experiences out of context, and

580
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: I place it back in context. I'm just like, well,

581
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,239
Speaker 2: in this whole wild world of things that are going on,

582
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: this is the thing that they didn't do as well

583
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: as they could have on. But this is something that

584
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: most people are not trained on. But they don't know

585
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: what they don't know, so they're doing what they can,

586
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: thinking that the thing is correct. And now you're with

587
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: somebody who knows a little bit more. Right, Like your

588
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: general doctor may say, like, your headache is induced because

589
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: of I don't know, you eat too much syogu and

590
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: you drink too much caffeine. I have no idea if

591
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: that's true, because I ain't never got a sugar headache, right,

592
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: So they may say that, But then you see a specialist.

593
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: A specialist has a completely different view of the problem.

594
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that your general doctor was wrong. It

595
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: means that their scope was limited. I'm saying that now

596
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: you're with somebody who has a different scope, And while

597
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: it may have been hurtful. While it may have been harmful,

598
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to dismiss that there was hurt

599
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: I'm not going to dismiss that there was harm. We

600
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: are going to integrate that into the fact that I

601
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: have a different scope, I have a different view than

602
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: what they have, and we're going to work from where

603
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: we are, where you are, and where we know your

604
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: current context is to help get you the rest of

605
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: the way of where you're going.

606
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, but first a

607
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: quick snippet of what's coming up next week on TVG.

608
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 4: I remember growing up in high school watching things like

609
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 4: Sex and the City and Girlfriends, and I thought about

610
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 4: just how much time they spent just talking about men

611
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 4: in relationships, and it just started to feel like that

612
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 4: is the thing that women do. We just sit and

613
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 4: commiserate over all of our relationship and dating problems. There's

614
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 4: nothing else going on in our lives besides that. And

615
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: it makes me feel like as women were really not

616
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: encouraged to develop a sense of self. It's always about

617
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: how we can create and nurture relationship with other people,

618
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 4: But how about that relationship that we have with ourselves.

619
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: What about that?

620
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: So, doctor Jackson, the thing we have not talked about

621
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: as much is when clients fire us so to speak, right,

622
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: I use fire kind of colloquially. But sometimes we are

623
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: not the best fit for clients, right, and so sometimes

624
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,239
Speaker 1: it is the therapist that recognizes it, and sometimes it

625
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: is the client. So what suggestions would you have for

626
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: a client who maybe is realizing I don't know if

627
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: this therapist is actually the best fit for me, Like,

628
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: how should they go about either having that conversation with

629
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: the therapist or just finding someone else? What suggestions would

630
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: you have?

631
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 3: I would absolutely say truck instincts. Find another therapist that

632
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: you can work with sexivelya right, don't ever feel how

633
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 3: cottage to a therapist that you don't feel without a

634
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 3: good live with, or that you don't feel understand through

635
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 3: you or isn't giving me the skills what you're looking for.

636
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 3: Move forward, find another therapist that needed. I always recommend

637
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: closer to the therapeutic relationship, right, because if you go

638
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: to the therapist, they're not going to be any better

639
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 3: for the next client come along with similar issues. So

640
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: whether it was stylistic or the way they have conversation

641
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 3: or the amount of intervention they do with the way

642
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: they provide intervention. If you're not feeling like that's working

643
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: for you, I always encourage that conversation for termination so

644
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: that you can help that therapist do their job that

645
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: are for somebody else with it. But I also recognize

646
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: that that's not where everyone is, right. It really depends

647
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: on how well you know yourself. It depends on how

648
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 3: as third of you are, how you deal with conflict

649
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: and everybody. You may not be ready for that, but

650
00:33:54,200 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: don't show you therapists consistently with no real clarification about

651
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 3: what's going on. It's okay to send the message in

652
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: a secure messaging portal or via email just to say

653
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 3: you know, I'm moving forward. I'm going to continue when

654
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: I work with someone else. Thanks for the time, Thanks

655
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: for the intervention. You can you close the book. The

656
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 3: therapist doesn't have to prize. They may invite you for

657
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 3: a termination session. You can go where you're gonna not go.

658
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: Therapy is never a force folk circumptent, but I would

659
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 3: always recommend having a clarifying conversation if possible, to say

660
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 3: what wasn't working so many your therapist can for a

661
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: better job for you or for someone else, or you

662
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: can just let them know have decided to move forward.

663
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: I know it's a no, it's a complete fensic. I'm

664
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 3: moving on them. That's how crazy.

665
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: For me, Both as a therapist as well as a client.

666
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 2: I speak to my expectations of the therapeutic relationship up front.

667
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: This is what I'm looking for in a therapist. This

668
00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: is what I'm looking for in a therapeutic relationship. Addition

669
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: to these are the goals that I have for why

670
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 2: I'm here. This is why I'm here, this is the

671
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: problem I'm experiencing. This is the goal that I have.

672
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: These are things that I'm also asking clients at the

673
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: very start, what are your expectations of the therapeutic relationship,

674
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: because if it is outside of the scope, I can

675
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: tell you right now that, oh I ain't doing all that.

676
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 2: Oh you need someone. I'm going to teach you how

677
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: to tie your shoes, but I'm never gonna tie your

678
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: shoes for you, So you should go yonder. Right. I

679
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: will move you according to what I know about myself

680
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: as a therapist so that you can be where it

681
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 2: is that you need to be. But I would also

682
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: suggest that you check in with your therapist, and that

683
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 2: your therapist hopefully is checking in with you. What's worked

684
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: and what didn't work for you in our last session.

685
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: What's something that you feel like you got from our

686
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: last session. What's something that you feel would help you

687
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: feel more comfortable in the space that we are cultivating together.

688
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: These type of questions give room for you to give feedback,

689
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: right But if the therapist didn't say it, you say it.

690
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: Send a message ahead of therapy via email, the client portal, wherever,

691
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: and just be like, hey, we need to talk about

692
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: da da da da da. You said something in the

693
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: last session. It rubbed me wrong the way you said it.

694
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: I want to talk about it. I've had clients send

695
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: those messages to me and then we talked about the process.

696
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: We talked about that where and why, and we talked

697
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: about what they would prefer and whether or not that

698
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: was in my ability to do. But to me, finding

699
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: your therapist is like dating. Everybody you date ain't the one.

700
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: Sometimes they not the two to three or the four,

701
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 2: and you need to be able to move on accordingly.

702
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: I am not for everybody. My style, the way I

703
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: show up it doesn't work for everybody, and that's Okay.

704
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 2: Part of our work here, at least at my practice,

705
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 2: is about authenticity. If I'm not being authentically me, then

706
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: I am trying to be somebody else, which means I

707
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: can't teach you to be authentically you while I'm pretending

708
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: to be someone that I'm not. So if I don't

709
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: fit for you for whatever reason, let me help you

710
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: find somebody that's a better fit. I've had clients look

711
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: at the blue hair and be like, Nope, not for me.

712
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: Off the bat, I'm like, do you want to talk

713
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: a little bit more about that what that means? Or

714
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 2: you want me to just help you find somebody else.

715
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 2: Sometimes they do it both, and fifty percent of those

716
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: people will end up staying with me anyway, and fifty

717
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: percent will lead. That's fine. I can't be anything other

718
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 2: than what I am, and I want you to find

719
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: the thing that is the best fit for you. So

720
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: send an email, send a message like, Hey, this thing

721
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: you said, this thing you did didn't work for me.

722
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: Can we talk about that? And you use the first

723
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen minutes of the therapy session so that

724
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: you can process that, and hopefully they're able to tie

725
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: it into some other stuff as well. But at the

726
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: very least you will practice the part where you are

727
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: assertive in your communication. Ghosting is a skill that requires

728
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: no cultivation. I want you to cultivate skills. Ghosting is

729
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 2: not skilled.

730
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: I love what you said. They're both of you and

731
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: doctor Jackson like this idea of closure conversations, and I

732
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: do think it depends on your training largely. What I

733
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: hear both of you talking about is like this real

734
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: relationship centered kind of work, right, like this idea that

735
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: we have spent time together, and so I also want

736
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: to know, like if I'm not going to hear from

737
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: you again, just because you've become important to me and

738
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: our work together, but also it is a good skill

739
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: to cultivate, like you said, right, like this idea of

740
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: saying goodbye having difficult conversations like therapy is the perfect

741
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: place to practice saying to someone like ouch that hurt me,

742
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: or I didn't agree with this thing that you said,

743
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: whether it be as a part of us continuing our

744
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: work together and like we can get through this, or

745
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: if it is what I've decided that this is no

746
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: longer a good fit for me, Like it just can

747
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: be a good way to practice some of those skills.

748
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: I would love for both of you to talk about.

749
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: You know, we talk so much about like, how do

750
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: you know it's a good match between like you and

751
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: your therapist. How do you know if you are wanting

752
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: to terminate what the therapist be because maybe they've challenged

753
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: you too much and you're like, I don't know that

754
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: this feels comfortable versus this person is actually not a

755
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: good fit for me.

756
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 3: That's a good question. I'd take it back to the goals,

757
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: even if they're challenging you or either pushing you know

758
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 3: when I have a conversation, or they're pushing too fast

759
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 3: and either pushing in the direction of your roles or

760
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 3: their fast. But then I'd also say check the receipts,

761
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 3: not just the money, but are you actually making this

762
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: progress and if some of this push that they're giving

763
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 3: you push that is effected and it's helping you to

764
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 3: transform your life in different ways. If they're not helping

765
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: to transform, if they're not meeting the need that you have,

766
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: whether it's frequency of the therapy or the goals that

767
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 3: you set out, or the style that they have, or

768
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 3: the insight in your buildings, have those conversations to see

769
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 3: if you're moving towards that treatment, right, every therapist is

770
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: supposed to have a treatment, and so if you feel

771
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: like nothing's happening, I'm not sure if they're just revenue

772
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 3: is the wrong way, or if they're not effective take

773
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: it back to the treatment. Can we check in on

774
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: where some of these both were when I came in

775
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 3: on a film with A B and C. Where are

776
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,479
Speaker 3: we trapping in your mind of a therapist for these

777
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 3: particular goals? Because this is what I'm thinking, this is

778
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 3: what the work could look like on my side as

779
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: the client, and I'm wondering how we're going to get

780
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 3: to those roles that we talked about in those first

781
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 3: couple of sessions, because I'm wondering where that progress was going.

782
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: That was the recommendation that I had.

783
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: I had somebody come through do a discovery call with me,

784
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: and I challenged them During the discovery call, I was

785
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: just like, it sounds like your previous therapist is dope.

786
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: It's doing the work, and you're running away from them

787
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: because now you have to take responsibility for your part.

788
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: I'm like, do you still want to have a first

789
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: session with me or do you want to go back

790
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: to them? I was just like, hey, it's up to you.

791
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: They did make an appointment with me, but they were

792
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 2: just like I sat in what you said in a

793
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: Discovery call, I'm gonna go back. I was just like,

794
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 2: all right, goodbye in peace. So I mean, for me,

795
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: I have sent plenty of clients back to their therapists.

796
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: I was just like, you know your therapist can do

797
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: this work that you're running away from them for. Why

798
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: are you running away from your therapist to come over

799
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 2: here to do the work that they are already doing right.

800
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: So like I challenge people in that way, But for

801
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: my clients who are running away, I call a spade

802
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: a spade. I just be like, oh, okay, I didn't

803
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: know that you only want to do this much work

804
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: on this particular problem. What about what we're doing right

805
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: now scares you so much that you don't feel like

806
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: we're on track? Sometimes I just walk them through the

807
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: thought process. So this is why we're talking about the

808
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: thing that we're talking about. This is how it relates

809
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: directly to the goal that you said that you wanted

810
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 2: to work on. Do you want us to back off

811
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: this goal? Are you feeling fulfilled? And where this goal

812
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 2: is we moved to another goal altogether and just leave

813
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: this piece alone. I've had lots of clients come in

814
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: on the discovery call. They will mention sexual harm, but

815
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: then don't want to talk about anything sexual. I'm like, well, okay,

816
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: let's talk about everything, but let's get you up to

817
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 2: here and when you're ready, take a break from therapy

818
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: and come back when you're ready. And I've had plenty

819
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 2: of clients that do that. They came in, we talked

820
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: about X for a while, they were able to resolve X,

821
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: and when they were ready to talk about the other

822
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: piece that was missing from the conversation, they came back.

823
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: I'm not going to force you. I'm not dragging you

824
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: across no finish line.

825
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that this really speaks to what you

826
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: both mentioned in terms of like really being reflective and

827
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: like how much of the work of therapy actually happens

828
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: outside of the fifty or seventy five minutes you're spending

829
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: with your therapist. There is all of this reflection that

830
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: has to happen. And if you are thinking like Okay,

831
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: I want to terminate with this person or I need

832
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: to find someone else to really sit with these feelings

833
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: of Okay, what is driving this decision? Like do I

834
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: feel like I have made progress on my goals? Or

835
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: am I feeling uncomfortable? Because therapy, we will often feel uncomfortable. Right, So,

836
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: even being able to go back to the therapist and say, hey,

837
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 1: I thought about not coming this week because I felt

838
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: really uncomfortable, you'd be surprised by how much that can

839
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: really open up the work just by you going back

840
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: and saying that thing. So I definitely encourage people to

841
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 1: have some of these difficult conversations and to give voice

842
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: to whatever you're feeling with your therapist. Right So, if

843
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: you decide to ultimately terminate, totally cool, But there could

844
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: be a lot of other things that are going on

845
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: that it would be really helpful to talk about with

846
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: your therapist.

847
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: I try to remind clients that if you come to

848
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: me weekly and we spent the whole hour together, that's

849
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: four percent of your day. What percentage of your week

850
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: is that? Zero points zero zero five? That is how

851
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: much time you spent with me, which is not all

852
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: that significant in the grand scheme. All your work is

853
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 2: not going to be done in therapy itself, and sometimes

854
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: you're going to ruminate on some things that make you uncomfortable.

855
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 2: I try to warn clients where I can that what

856
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: I'm asking you to do is going to make you

857
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: feel some type of way and you might have little attitude,

858
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 2: and that's okay. You could come back with full blown attitude.

859
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 2: Eye am prepare to receive it. I'm not going to

860
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: dismiss your feelings. I'm just like, well, what's going on

861
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: for you? What about this thing was difficult for you?

862
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: What about this thing felt harmful or harmful to you?

863
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: How can we rework this thing? But in the end

864
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: of the day, is the work that we're doing still

865
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 2: in alignment with the work that you're wanting? Or are

866
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 2: you recognizing that this thing requires more work than what

867
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 2: you originally thought and you want to back off of it,

868
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: because that's okay too. I don't think that enough people

869
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: hear that part. Like, I've got some beautiful trauma in

870
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 2: my past, but some of it I didn't recognize it

871
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: for what it was and the ways that it was

872
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 2: showing up until recently. It's been various iterations of me

873
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 2: working on these concerns, and the way that they show

874
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: up now is nothing the way they show up even

875
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: three years ago.

876
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: This time, the.

877
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: Work looks very different and I may or may not

878
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 2: be ready for that work. And it's okay. It's okay

879
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: for me to say, you know what I want to

880
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: say with where I am, I wanna be here for

881
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: a bit before I try to do this additional thing

882
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: or this extra step, because no one recognizes the full

883
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: extent of therapy work while they're in it, Because sometimes

884
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: the work means that your relationships with other people change,

885
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: how you engage and whether or not you choose to engage.

886
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: You may find that the friends that you thought you

887
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: had are not the friends that you actually got. So

888
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: I feel like that's one of those therapy things that

889
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 2: we don't really be saying, like, oh, go get your healing.

890
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 2: We don't tell you that sometimes that healing means that

891
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 2: you're finn be by yourself a little bit. You might

892
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: end up single, and you might have to say goodbye

893
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 2: to those friends. You may find that you need to move,

894
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 2: You may find that you may need to quit a job.

895
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 2: And the things we look a little funky for a minute,

896
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: And are we allowing room for whatever that is and

897
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 2: being able to say, you know what I only want

898
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: to do up to this point. Let me do up

899
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: to this point, and I got to let the rest

900
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: of this work sit for a minute so that I

901
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: can find my next iteration. And that's okay.

902
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 3: I think it's also important for clients to remember the

903
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: therapy is not this magical experience like doctor Oh said,

904
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 3: you help people and spend zero point zero zero zero

905
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: five that was for such a small segiment of your time.

906
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 3: It is not magical. It must be tangible or have

907
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: to be things that you are applying, changing, shifting, challenging

908
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 3: in your own life. And so the expectation that what

909
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: you're going to do in one hour with whatever freaquancy

910
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 3: that may be is an unrealistic expectation. So I think

911
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 3: a lot of that is off the clients checking their

912
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 3: expectations to what therapy think for bide for them not

913
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 3: looking for some magic solution, but recognizing this on them

914
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 3: to make that transformative change in their life, whether that's

915
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 3: putting a job, shifting relationships and then friendships, moving to

916
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: a different state, set in boundary with family members. You

917
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 3: have to do the work in order to see a leader.

918
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, so I know

919
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: that we are all a little bit more seasoned in

920
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: our careers at this point, right, Like, we're not necessarily

921
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: early career professionals anymore. And so of course the way

922
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: that I feel about like a client terminating with me

923
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: today is very different than like my first year post

924
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: grad school. And so I wonder if you all could

925
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 1: think back to some of your experiences as early career

926
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: professionals and how it might have felt to have like

927
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: that first client say like I don't think we're a

928
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: good fit. What kinds of things would you suggest for

929
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: maybe early career professionals and even not who are dealing

930
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: with maybe some of those feelings of I wasn't good

931
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: enough as a therapist to help this person, or you know,

932
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: really struggling with this idea that we are not actually

933
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: a good fit for every client.

934
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: I had to recognize multiple things, one of those things

935
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: being that I was being what my school taught me

936
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 2: to be, which was not necessarily being me as a therapist,

937
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 2: but being the way they said a therapist is supposed

938
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: to be. So it pretty quiet, and how does that

939
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: make you feel? Right, like that sort of weird whisper

940
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: thing that they sort of set you up with. And

941
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: realizing that I had not yet stylistically found myself as

942
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 2: a therapist. It took me time to find my own way.

943
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 2: I got a lot of really great bad advice when

944
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: I first started. Don't put so many black people on

945
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: your website. Don't niche that way because black people don't

946
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 2: go to therapy, Like I got one hundred percent black

947
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: client here, But go and tell me how black people

948
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: don't go to therapy. And looking back, the thing that

949
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 2: I would have told myself to do is read this book.

950
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 2: The four agreements, specifically the one about not taking things personally.

951
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: Your job is to orbit them when you enter their space.

952
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: They are the sun and you are simply someone that

953
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 2: gets to bask in the glow and help them shine brighter.

954
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: Sometimes you will do just that to an extent, and

955
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 2: then it will let you go and tell you to

956
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: go find another place to orbit. And that's okay. It

957
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that number one, you don't have anything to learn,

958
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 2: because certainly, depending on what they tell you, you need

959
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: to sit in and reflect upon that. Is this a

960
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: difference in personality? Is it a difference in approach? Is

961
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: it a difference in what you offer versus what they need?

962
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: Being able to understand that sometimes there will be gaps,

963
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: and that there will also be gaps in your knowledge

964
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: set because you're a new therapist. Allow yourself to grow,

965
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: allow yourself to be who you are, and then allow

966
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: people to tell you that, hey, the thing that you

967
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 2: offer is not the thing that I need. And I

968
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: found that in reading the four agreements, specifically, don't take

969
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 2: anything personally, and don't make assumptions, and always do your best.

970
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 2: All those things they really come into the work because

971
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: if you're doing your best, the best for where you

972
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: are right now in your life, not the best that

973
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: you feel like you should be in ten years and

974
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: trying to make ten years of practice happen today. If

975
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 2: you're doing your best now, your best is good enough.

976
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: It may not be good enough for them, but it

977
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you're not going to be growing over

978
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 2: time anyway. And then you're not taking it personally because

979
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: it's not about you that they left. It's about them.

980
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: They left for them, it's not an admonishment about you.

981
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 2: And if they said that, hey, the thing that you

982
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 2: didn't do well was we didn't like the way that

983
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: your office communicated about appointments, that means that now you've

984
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 2: got something that you can work on. If they said

985
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 2: they didn't like the way that you say things in therapy,

986
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: then maybe you go get additional supervision on that thing.

987
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 2: Go do the work, be your best, all physically, you

988
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 2: at your best, and be willing to receive feedback and

989
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 2: understand that quite frankly, it's.

990
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 3: Not about you, thought you doctor Jackson, I would say

991
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 3: it also hurt my feelings, right, I remember being in

992
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 3: supervision west bag mus client Piarity. I'm the worst. I

993
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 3: need to reconsider my shows and profession. But I had

994
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 3: to learn how to respect the continuum of knowledge, right

995
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: and recognizing you that just because we finished the degree

996
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 3: or you passed the Life ins your exam or just

997
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 3: completed the post supervision hours that need doesn't and have

998
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 3: all the cving that doctor Oh is talking about. And

999
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 3: so give yourself the opportunity to respect that continuum of

1000
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 3: knowledge and figure out where am I and how can

1001
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 3: I increase that knowledge in the future so I could

1002
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 3: be more prepared to address maybe something that I may

1003
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 3: have used. And while I agree with doctor Oh that

1004
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 3: it's not all about us, right, it is a relationship

1005
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 3: you've contributed to the decision of this person has made

1006
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 3: for them and they have the freedom to make that decision,

1007
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 3: but what can we learn ourselves in that moment. And

1008
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 3: so in addition to this continuum of knowledge, also reminding

1009
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 3: yourself that this was a relationship that was a journey.

1010
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 3: It was an honor to be on a journey with

1011
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: that person. At any if they invited you in to

1012
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 3: walk with them and then they said, you know, I'm

1013
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 3: going to go find another running buddy because I'm ready

1014
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: to move a little faster and you can't run at

1015
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 3: my pace, appreciate the fact that they invited you along

1016
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 3: with the infinite space that is there lights, that is

1017
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 3: their experience, that it is they're functioning, or their trauma,

1018
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 3: and allow that to disturb you. Well, that was special.

1019
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 3: You've made an impact in some way, hopefully positively on

1020
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 3: this individual. But maybe it wasn't positive, and maybe there

1021
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: was something that you do need to reflect on. If

1022
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 3: they gave you some of that feedback, If your client

1023
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 3: fired you and let your little hard snope on the

1024
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: way out, maybe you need to take that. Like acter

1025
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 3: Eh said, they don't like your bill in practices, they're

1026
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 3: still on in practice said take that as an option

1027
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 3: for something that used to make changes about. But also

1028
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 3: consider that you may divide it to this particular dynamic,

1029
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: and what does this bringing up within me? So I

1030
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 3: know when I was fired the first time, I was like, ooh,

1031
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 3: it activated all of my need to be the most

1032
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 3: competent person in the state, and the likability and the

1033
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 3: m I good enough. That activated all of that. But

1034
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: even if the client has don't they needed to differ them?

1035
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 3: You need to do what you need to do free.

1036
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 3: It's okay for you to breeth that firing as well,

1037
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 3: and to say, what does this activate within me? So

1038
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 3: that I can figure out how I deal with this

1039
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 3: in the professional face, so that I can handle it differently.

1040
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 2: Can I answer to that? Just real quick? If you

1041
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: keep getting fired, then you are the problem, right If

1042
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: it's consistently happening, at some point you have to look

1043
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 2: at Okay, is it them or is it me? And

1044
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: in most cases it's a combination. I would say it's

1045
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 2: generally a combination. But if you can't keep nobody past

1046
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: three sessions, it might be time to look at what

1047
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 2: you're doing. If they haven't given you feedback, I would

1048
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 2: seek feedback. I would send an email, Hey, I know

1049
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: that you're done with therapy, with me, but I wanted

1050
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 2: to get a sense of why you stopped, right. I

1051
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 2: want to know why you stopped because I want to

1052
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 2: know where I can improve. I think that sometimes some

1053
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 2: of us we get a little too big for eye bridges.

1054
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: We believe that our degrees, our licensures make us bigger

1055
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 2: and better than our clients. And I'm just like, no,

1056
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 2: they make you different, not better. And this is a

1057
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 2: collaborative effort, and maybe if you collaborate with them, you'll

1058
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: know why they keep firing you. So no t no shade.

1059
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, right, you got to use your resources,

1060
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 2: and sometimes your resources in that moment. The immediate ones

1061
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,399
Speaker 2: are the therapy clients that continually leave you. I would

1062
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 2: ask other therapists who may be familiar with your work,

1063
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: and I would also see about is there a seasoned

1064
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,720
Speaker 2: therapist who supervises you that you know like and trust

1065
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 2: and a client who would be willing to have someone

1066
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: be in the session to just observe, who will not speak,

1067
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: who will not be seen if y'all are on a

1068
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 2: computer screen, who will be able to give you feedback

1069
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: about what you're doing well and what you're not doing

1070
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 2: so well, so that you can continue to get that feedback.

1071
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 2: If you believe that you are so the best in

1072
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 2: this field that you can't learn anything, please exit.

1073
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 3: For the clinician whood has clients that don't necessarily want

1074
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 3: to have these conversations. Maybe just building into your practice

1075
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 3: a satisfaction survey. If you recognize, like Girth, there always

1076
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 3: saying you people are leaving you after three sessions, you

1077
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 3: might need a know first two sessions who satisfaction survey.

1078
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 3: Whether it's about a business practice and it's a therapeutic practice,

1079
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 3: or what was a dress in session or your time management.

1080
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: Consider the different things about the way you show up

1081
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 3: or the way your business is run. And we though

1082
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 3: have been a third quest so that they can send

1083
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 3: it and maybe anonymously, maybe it's attached and coming right after.

1084
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 3: But think about your client resource management and how you're

1085
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: directly vote standing for it. Can be a better clinician

1086
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 3: and a better bigpmer.

1087
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 2: If data data data, get the information. I do a

1088
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: satisfaction survey after the first session that goes out automatically

1089
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 2: for clients. If you are terminating services with us for

1090
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 2: any reason, we send you a satisfaction survey. When you

1091
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,720
Speaker 2: do a discovery call we send you a satisfaction survey.

1092
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 2: If you don't make an appointment while you're doing a

1093
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: discovery call with our admin team, we ask you right then,

1094
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,440
Speaker 2: why Right Like when I tell you that we have

1095
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 2: so much dag on data that I know that therapy

1096
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 2: for black girls is our number one for referralsers and

1097
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 2: as psychology today is number two. It's because I looked

1098
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 2: at it. I know that our third way of getting

1099
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 2: it is word of mouth. I know that we get

1100
00:56:55,280 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 2: the most people wanting therapy in November, December, January, and February.

1101
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 2: I know that those are our busy months, with means

1102
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: that we have more hours available for discovery calls during

1103
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 2: that time. I know what day of the week clients

1104
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 2: prefer for therapy. I know what time of the day

1105
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 2: clients want for therapy. When I am collecting so much

1106
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: data that I know what is working and I know

1107
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 2: what is not working. I know what insurance most of

1108
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: the clients are coming with, even though we don't take insurance.

1109
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 2: Day to data, day to day to day to day

1110
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 2: to day.

1111
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,479
Speaker 1: Great suggestions from both of you. Thank you so much

1112
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: that I think will be very very helpful to you. Both.

1113
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: The new professionals and probably some season twe dis as well.

1114
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: So before we wrap up, I would love for you

1115
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: both to share where we can stay connected with you.

1116
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: What are your websites as well as any social media

1117
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: handles you'd like to share. We'll start with you, Doctor Jackson.

1118
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 3: You can find me at www dot rerwell dot com.

1119
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: What about you, doctor Oriolwell.

1120
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 2: You can find me at doctor donaoriowo dot com. Last

1121
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 2: names oh r i owo so donaio dot com or

1122
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 2: I'm at doctor dot donna oreoo on in their ground

1123
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: TikTok and threads. I'm not really on the what's the

1124
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: other one? The original one?

1125
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: Oh Twitter?

1126
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 2: Twitter? I mean I'm over there under the same name,

1127
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: but I don't really say nothing over there. And I

1128
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 2: do offer a free once a week Tuesday in my

1129
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 2: Black Feelings family space, so every Tuesday at noon, so

1130
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: feel free to come through. Black women only. Must identify

1131
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 2: ass black women. I'm not about to identify it for you.

1132
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: Got it? Sure to include all of those things in

1133
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: the show notes. Thank y'all so much for spending some

1134
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: time with me again today. I appreciate it.

1135
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me back.

1136
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1137
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm doctor Donald Orio oo, and I'm on the

1138
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: Therapy for Black Girls podcast. You said read it twice

1139
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 2: here I go. Hey, I'm doctor Donald Orioo and i

1140
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 2: am on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. You'd be asking, See,

1141
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 2: I don't forgot my own name. I'm no judgment. Hey,

1142
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: I'm doctor Donald Orioo and I'm on the Therapy for

1143
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 2: Black Girls podcast. I am in session today debunking the

1144
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 2: idea of being fired by your therapist. Hey, I'm doctor

1145
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: Donald Orioo. I'm on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast

1146
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 2: and we are in session today talking about being fired

1147
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 2: by your therapist.

1148
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm doctor Jackson. Didn't mess it up already. Okay, wait,

1149
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 3: forgot my name.

1150
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 2: Hi.

1151
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 3: I'm doctor DeAndre Jackson and I'm on the Therapy for

1152
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 3: Black Girl's podcast.

1153
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 1: Hi.

1154
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 3: I'm doctor DeAndre Jackson and I'm on the Therapies for

1155
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 3: Black Girl's podcast.

1156
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 4: Hi.

1157
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 3: I'm doctor DeAndrea Jackson, and I'm on the Therapy for

1158
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 3: Black Girlth's podcast. I'm in session today debunking the idea

1159
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 3: of being fired by your therapist.

1160
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: Hi.

1161
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 3: I'm doctor DeAndrea Jackson and I'm on the Therapy for

1162
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 3: Black Girls podcast. I'm in session today debunking the idea

1163
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 3: of being fired by your therapist.

1164
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that doctor Jackson and doctor orio Will

1165
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: were able to join me again for this conversation. To

1166
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: learn more about them and the work they're doing, be

1167
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls

1168
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: dot com slash Session three seventy and don't forget to

1169
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 1: text two of your girls right now and tell them

1170
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: to check out the episode. If you're looking for a

1171
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit the therapist directory at Therapy

1172
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want

1173
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in

1174
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: community with other sisters, come on over and join us

1175
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet,

1176
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: designed just for black women. You can join us at

1177
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 1: community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was

1178
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: produced by Elise Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done

1179
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me

1180
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation

1181
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: with you all real soon. Take good care,