Speaker 1: From I Heart Radio and Doghouse Pictures. This is fight Night.
Speaker 1: I'm Jeff keating where I'm gonna lay down? My birdens
Speaker 1: where down. When I first met Chicken Man back in
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, he was actually Reverend Gordon Williams.
Speaker 1: He greeted me at his church and we had our
Speaker 1: first interview together. After a few years, we'd become close friends.
Speaker 1: We broke bread together, we watched movies together. We talked
Speaker 1: about our family together, and he ended up counseling my
Speaker 1: life as well. I also got to know his family,
Speaker 1: his wife Dolores, his son Gordon Williams Jr. And his
Speaker 1: two daughters, Camilla and Barjona. Here I am with Dolores
Speaker 1: as we talked about the first time she met Gordon Williams. Uh.
Speaker 1: I was working in the salon doing Better Do first
Speaker 1: year right. So Golden came in and told the receptionist
Speaker 1: that he had an appointment with me, and so I
Speaker 1: heard him and I turned around and looked, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, like and he it was like he just
Speaker 1: felt me when I said that, because I'm looking kind
Speaker 1: of strange. At the time, I was trying not to
Speaker 1: do me in hair, you know, I was busy, and
Speaker 1: but and then he turned he said, yes, my appointment
Speaker 1: is with Delores. He came, he said, and I began
Speaker 1: to notice him, which was really strange for me because
Speaker 1: I was busy, and guys come in all the time
Speaker 1: and try to be at you and all that, but
Speaker 1: I wouldn't really, you know, for all at it that
Speaker 1: particular time. But there were things that I began to
Speaker 1: notice about it. The way he was dressed. I mean,
Speaker 1: he he was just immaculate, and he was the colors
Speaker 1: were right, and it wasn't too much, it was just enough.
Speaker 1: He was just he was just on it. So he
Speaker 1: over what he wanted and I cut his hair, and
Speaker 1: it just so happened that now I got two assistants,
Speaker 1: but both of them were busy at the time when
Speaker 1: it was start for him to get his hair shampoo.
Speaker 1: So who has left to shampoo his hair? But man,
Speaker 1: so I took it, you know, to shampoo bowl and
Speaker 1: then I really could check it out. But she and uh,
Speaker 1: and so when I finished with him, and he you know,
Speaker 1: came back to the chair and he says, I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed my shampoo and everything. He says, I would love
Speaker 1: to make another appointment with the afterway you can and
Speaker 1: you get really go out to do shop, take the
Speaker 1: appointment for you know, right back that so, uh that's
Speaker 1: how we met. You know, he started asking me to
Speaker 1: go after Benner and all that, but I resisted it
Speaker 1: for a long time, but because the fact that I
Speaker 1: knew he was with somebody, you know, and uh so
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get into all of that. But
Speaker 1: he wouldn't. He wouldn't give up. Yeah, he wouldn't give
Speaker 1: up on it. So tell me about the early years
Speaker 1: of Dolores and partying and your heyday. What was that like?
Speaker 1: It was? It was amazing, Like I said, immediately when
Speaker 1: I opened the salon, it was so popular and so
Speaker 1: anybody was to come to town, all of the new
Speaker 1: people they would want to come there. And uh so
Speaker 1: it was we worked hard and we're parded hard. So
Speaker 1: at what point, you know, when you guys are dating,
Speaker 1: like who starts to lean into you know, Jesus and
Speaker 1: the Lord first is it? You? Are you doing it? Okay? Okay,
Speaker 1: So tell me about kind of what led you down
Speaker 1: that path and then how you kind of pulled Gordon
Speaker 1: in with you. Okay, Well, you know, after after a
Speaker 1: while I knew that he cared for me, I really did.
Speaker 1: I knew he cared for me, but he had so
Speaker 1: much going on in his life, so he was going
Speaker 1: back and forth, you know, when his business and all that.
Speaker 1: But it got to the point where he would when
Speaker 1: he was in town, he was going to make sure
Speaker 1: he came back to Salon. And he finally convinced me
Speaker 1: to go out with him, and I did in it.
Speaker 1: And he was such a gentleman. I mean, he would
Speaker 1: make you love it, you know, he would really do that.
Speaker 1: He was free high at he was a gentleman, and
Speaker 1: he would take it to the best of places, and
Speaker 1: and to see a man with his capabilities and his
Speaker 1: personality and everything, he could easily fall in love with him.
Speaker 1: And so that's what happened. And then then after we
Speaker 1: were together for a while, he came my hand and
Speaker 1: brought me to this house. And I've been in here since,
Speaker 1: you know, like the kids were saying, well, they came later,
Speaker 1: but we had gone through quite a few things and
Speaker 1: breaking up, and and with me getting saved and everything,
Speaker 1: you know, I got saved changed my life. So now
Speaker 1: at some point you're married and you've got two young girls. Okay,
Speaker 1: got you, And so tell me a little bit about finally,
Speaker 1: you know, because again this is a long process where
Speaker 1: Gordon realizes, Hey, if I'm gonna be with this lady
Speaker 1: and these two young girls, I got to give up
Speaker 1: this life. So tell me tell me how that happens.
Speaker 1: And like, were you around for the thing where he
Speaker 1: owed like hundreds of thousands of dollars? Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a scary time. Okay, so tell me tell me that's
Speaker 1: important because this is a story that he tells. And
Speaker 1: so tell me about what was going on and how
Speaker 1: you were feeling and how he was handling all that,
Speaker 1: because that was I mean, that's that's close to death situation.
Speaker 1: Well at this particular time, um, you know, it was
Speaker 1: still the thing of him, you know, going back and forth.
Speaker 1: He was working, you know, kind of what he was
Speaker 1: doing and uh, but it was just getting you know,
Speaker 1: the people that he was dealing with and could just
Speaker 1: tell that things were and then I was able to
Speaker 1: see these things, you know, so I would be finding
Speaker 1: the one in advance, even though I wasn't with him
Speaker 1: all the time, but I said, you know this and
Speaker 1: that and that. So anyway, anyway, they tricked in and
Speaker 1: uh ended up putting them in a bad situation. So
Speaker 1: he was focusing a lot on getting that together, which
Speaker 1: was the rightest thing to do, you know. And uh,
Speaker 1: but at the meantime he ended up he had a
Speaker 1: bullet that had been in his leg for a long time.
Speaker 1: And why this thing? What was that? From the war?
Speaker 1: From the streets? No, well, no, from the streets. He
Speaker 1: got shot. So how did that happen? I think a
Speaker 1: friend of here is something they were either together and
Speaker 1: they got somebody got mad, and but at the time,
Speaker 1: they were, you know, doing what they do. And so
Speaker 1: he gets shot. He's got a bullet in his leg. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a bullet in his leg. And he went
Speaker 1: to the hospital for it, but he wouldn't even stay
Speaker 1: that long enough for them to get it out, you know,
Speaker 1: he just felt just left with it. Now this was
Speaker 1: before I met him, Now, yes, I understand. And uh.
Speaker 1: And so he left with the bullet in his leg,
Speaker 1: and I guess he felt that he was all right,
Speaker 1: So he never saw about it. But at this particular
Speaker 1: time when he's down there, he's done a lot of
Speaker 1: stress because they're trying to settle this thing, trying to
Speaker 1: find this these people that stole all the stuff and
Speaker 1: they ended up the bullet popped out of his leg. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was bleeding. So he ended up in the hospital.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And when he went to the hospital
Speaker 1: where they will be kept him there and they cleaned
Speaker 1: him up and all that kind of stuff, and he stays.
Speaker 1: So that's when he said for me to come down there,
Speaker 1: because can you know? And so I went. And when
Speaker 1: you sit down there, do you mean to Miami? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: got you go ahead. But he came out and you know,
Speaker 1: and it was just such a a terrible pan. You know,
Speaker 1: most of the time when you're in the life of crime, tolors,
Speaker 1: it's very hard to get out. It is. When Gordon
Speaker 1: is dealing with a high level situation, a lot of
Speaker 1: money that he owes for drugs, that's just what it was.
Speaker 1: He's got something that stole it from him. And more importantly,
Speaker 1: they're giving him this ultimatum and he talks about this,
Speaker 1: bring me this guy's head in a paper bag, and
Speaker 1: everything's okay. And Gordon isn't a murderer, so he's like saying, listen, exactly,
Speaker 1: I got it. So now he's got to clear to
Speaker 1: this debt, So he's got to sell more drugs to
Speaker 1: clear this debt. But normally after you do that, it's
Speaker 1: so hard to get out. So finally he pays his debt,
Speaker 1: but how does he get out of this life? I'm
Speaker 1: glad that you brought it to the memory. When we
Speaker 1: came home. Then he began to all the contacts or
Speaker 1: whatever he had to to get rid of stuff. This
Speaker 1: is what he began to do. So when when he
Speaker 1: got the money all that he needed to pay, then
Speaker 1: I remember I drove that rode down with him, when
Speaker 1: rode down to Miami and he went, he met with
Speaker 1: them and he paid them and uh and they would saying,
Speaker 1: oh good. Then yeah, this is that, you know, like
Speaker 1: they were so happy to know what else we could
Speaker 1: we can do. He turned around and put his hand
Speaker 1: on his button, said you can kiss. In other words,
Speaker 1: he was through. He was through with it, and he
Speaker 1: did not look back. So what you're telling me is
Speaker 1: after he pays that off and he's like kiss my,
Speaker 1: you know what, he literally is been able to cut
Speaker 1: it all off. He did. Here I am with Gordon
Speaker 1: Williams Jr. As he talks about how his father's lifestyle
Speaker 1: affected him as he grew older. At the time, I'm
Speaker 1: taking his place. So I'm selling kilos like crazy sins
Speaker 1: of the father. Yeah, I'm following up my dad's footsteps.
Speaker 1: Then I get busted in Henry County and it's one
Speaker 1: of the largest drug busts in Henry County on record.
Speaker 1: It was a guy who was driving for me, but
Speaker 1: he got caught with twenty nine kilos and he told
Speaker 1: him it was mine. So they picked me up and
Speaker 1: charged me with conspiracy. So that was kind of like
Speaker 1: the catalyst for my dad because it really hurt him
Speaker 1: because now the fans got me. When the Fetz get you,
Speaker 1: the Fez got you. I started off in Georgia Penitentiary.
Speaker 1: How long did you have to serve? Ten years, six
Speaker 1: months and twenty one days. That's a real deal right there. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that that really hurt my dad, you know, because
Speaker 1: I'm his I'm his firstborn, and for me to follow
Speaker 1: in his footsteps and to fall like that changed his
Speaker 1: whole world. And he came to court in my defense.
Speaker 1: I was sending on my birthday, September the ninth. Prior
Speaker 1: to that, he had stopped using. But tell me get
Speaker 1: to the court. He's clean. He's clean, he's clean. The
Speaker 1: judges sentenced me. Just happened to go to school with
Speaker 1: my mom, so he knows about you. So he knows
Speaker 1: about Yeah, he knows about me, and he knows about
Speaker 1: my dad. So they asked, do anybody want to say
Speaker 1: anything before they passed sentison, And my dad gets up
Speaker 1: and says, your I like to speak on my son's
Speaker 1: behalf and tell you that he's not bad and he
Speaker 1: needs a second chance, and if you allow him the
Speaker 1: second chance, you do right by you. And he said,
Speaker 1: I throw myself on the merger of the court that
Speaker 1: please don't sentence him, because they were asking for a
Speaker 1: lot of time for me. They was asking for there
Speaker 1: was asked to life. He told my dad, Mr Willien,
Speaker 1: gona take everything in consideration, and I'm gonna send us
Speaker 1: your son underneath the guidelines because the guidelines are called
Speaker 1: for out of life. I'm gonna give him fifteen years.
Speaker 1: And he gave me fifteen and I serve teen on it.
Speaker 1: I was in Atlanta waiting to move and they had
Speaker 1: a press service down it for the inmates, and they said,
Speaker 1: anybody want to go to press service? I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I go over there, and when I went
Speaker 1: down to press service, I guess it was there. Your father,
Speaker 1: my dad. He was running the outreach prison ministries for inmates.
Speaker 1: And when he saw me, because I didn't know he
Speaker 1: was coming, and I didn't know he was you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't know he was gonna be there, and when
Speaker 1: I went in, he's you know, he just he started crying.
Speaker 1: You know, you're like God, let him man. Then he
Speaker 1: started getting closer and closer to to the Lord and
Speaker 1: he started, you know, started really confessing his sins and
Speaker 1: started his life started changing. And then that's when he
Speaker 1: opened up the Church International Ministries two thousand. Did he
Speaker 1: did he ultimately get ordained? Yeah? Yeah, he's an ordained minister.
Speaker 1: He was a ordained minister. When he died. He went
Speaker 1: to theologically he went to more House over there, and
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, what a turnaround from a drug
Speaker 1: dealer to a reverend. And he said, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I opened up my own church and minister. I said, really, okay, cool.
Speaker 1: When I got out, I got out August the thirty,
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, So when I got out, I
Speaker 1: went to the church. So he wanted me to minister
Speaker 1: to the younger guys in the congregation because they didn't
Speaker 1: understand what it was like, you know, to to be
Speaker 1: out here and selling drugs and doing wrong. He said,
Speaker 1: you can give them a message that dad listen to
Speaker 1: because you experienced it. Because my dad never defereral time.
Speaker 1: He never went to prison for as long as I did.
Speaker 1: So he said that I had something to offer. So
Speaker 1: and I started, you know, I started, uh ministering to
Speaker 1: the to the young, to the younger groups there. And
Speaker 1: it was strange seeing my dad transfer for him like that.
Speaker 1: That was a really strange transformation I witnessed because part
Speaker 1: of me leaving he was, you know, I mean chicken man,
Speaker 1: you know, and when you came out, he was what
Speaker 1: Reben Williams. He was Reverend Williams when I came on.
Speaker 1: He had let that that old name die. I mean,
Speaker 1: but you can't get rid of it. I said, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be Chicken Man for life. I don't care. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what people don't know you. And people people was
Speaker 1: questioning whether his faith was real or not because they
Speaker 1: just didn't want to believe it because they knew him
Speaker 1: prior to meet this man afterwards, and he's talking about
Speaker 1: worshiping God and praying and healing, and it just it
Speaker 1: didn't set well. What a lot of people. When did
Speaker 1: you know that the transformation was real? Well, him and
Speaker 1: Dolores stopped using drugs when they gave their life to Christ.
Speaker 1: I knew it was real. My name was real. I
Speaker 1: also stayed in touch with j. D. Hudson over the years,
Speaker 1: and I was shocked to learn about an incredible event
Speaker 1: that happened to him, but not surprised by the outcome.
Speaker 1: I connected with his daughter, Renee, as she told me
Speaker 1: about who j D was as a father and what
Speaker 1: it was like being the daughter of a policeman the
Speaker 1: time that I was in high school. My father at
Speaker 1: that time was a school detective and what does that mean?
Speaker 1: And where was that? Back then, all the schools had
Speaker 1: cops assigned to the school, so if they had problem
Speaker 1: kids or whatever, if there was some kind of Rucka's
Speaker 1: going on or whatever, they were assigned to certain high schools.
Speaker 1: And my father was assigned to high school that I
Speaker 1: went to. Do you think, okay, Renee, you think he
Speaker 1: did that? Imagine? Yeah, do you think he did that
Speaker 1: for a reason? I don't know. I think I know
Speaker 1: your dad oh god, it was just you know, and everybody.
Speaker 1: So I didn't have a whole lot of friends. Of course,
Speaker 1: not you got this cop. That is so now maybe
Speaker 1: some girlfriends that didn't want to you know that were Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was straight lacewere. But no guys are going to
Speaker 1: be like that's true. That's true. Oh my goodness, that's
Speaker 1: that is a that is a j D move. If
Speaker 1: I've ever my God, tell me a little bit about
Speaker 1: your father. What kind of dad was he? What do
Speaker 1: you remember about him growing up? What were some things
Speaker 1: that you remember of being the daughter of J. D. Hudson.
Speaker 1: I love my father. I thought he was He was
Speaker 1: a good dad. He was a hard worker. He'd worked
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, excellent provider. Oh. He loved holidays.
Speaker 1: He loved Christmas. His favorite color was blue. So I
Speaker 1: love Christmas too, But everything was blue. We had blue lights,
Speaker 1: had a red blue wreathe, We had blue bulbs, We
Speaker 1: had blue tints along the Christmas tree. And so I said,
Speaker 1: when I grew up, I'm never having anything blue because
Speaker 1: he loved blue. But he loved the holidays. He loved Christmas. Uh,
Speaker 1: he loved wrapping gifts. He and my uncle they would
Speaker 1: play on my brother's toys before my brother and I
Speaker 1: would wake up for Christmas. He would always take us
Speaker 1: on vacation Bangazne. Things were segregated. He loved to go
Speaker 1: to Jackal Island and there was a black side of
Speaker 1: Jackal Island and a white side of Jackal Island. We
Speaker 1: you know, drive to Florida. There were a lot of
Speaker 1: places we couldn't stop. I remember once we stopped somewhere
Speaker 1: and we got gas, and the guy came out and
Speaker 1: called my father the N word, and so my daddy
Speaker 1: told him, you siphon all this gas out of my car.
Speaker 1: That's when I kind of realized the world was not
Speaker 1: the same everywhere, you know, because I had been so
Speaker 1: insulated because in the area that I lived and it
Speaker 1: was all black. He just always taught me to be
Speaker 1: kind to everyone, you know, not to hate. He wanted
Speaker 1: me to do well in school. I think he was
Speaker 1: a pretty nice dad. The only thing about being my
Speaker 1: father's daughter was that it prevented me from having a
Speaker 1: lot of friends. A lot of people wouldn't come over
Speaker 1: because my dad, you know, he started out being a cop,
Speaker 1: you know, and then when he was over the beer
Speaker 1: of corrections, oh my god, you know, and so people
Speaker 1: shied away from me. It was different from my brother. Now,
Speaker 1: my brother that was a different story. But for me,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, you know, I would said I love daddy,
Speaker 1: but godly, I wish he wasn't a cop. Walk me
Speaker 1: through where you were or when you heard about when
Speaker 1: the guys tried to take the Cadillac from your dad's garage.
Speaker 1: I was in Conyers and I drove over here and
Speaker 1: by the time I got here to the house, they
Speaker 1: had taken my father to the hospital. So then I
Speaker 1: drive to Grady and I'm frantic, and I asked them,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find the gentleman that got shot and
Speaker 1: it was just brought in by the ambulance. And they said,
Speaker 1: there are two people that just got shot. I said,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? She said, there are two
Speaker 1: people on whatever floor or an emergency their side by side.
Speaker 1: You want the young man or the older man. And
Speaker 1: so I said, what do you mean there are two people?
Speaker 1: So I said, you need to tell the cops. If
Speaker 1: there are two people that got shot, more than likely
Speaker 1: that person that's sitting next this land it to my dad.
Speaker 1: It's a person that shot him. They said, oh, ma'am.
Speaker 1: So I ran to my father and I said, oh
Speaker 1: my god. And do you know the man that shot
Speaker 1: my daddy was right next door. And when he heard
Speaker 1: me tell him the nurses you need to find that
Speaker 1: guy because she shot my dad, he ran out of
Speaker 1: the hospital. Well they caught the guy, you know that, right, Yeah? Okay?
Speaker 1: And then there was two daddy, uh, and they and
Speaker 1: they had a trial, but Daddy didn't tell me anything.
Speaker 1: They didn't go because I wanted to go, but that
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. And so by the
Speaker 1: time I found that they had already had a trial.
Speaker 1: And did you know that there was two people that
Speaker 1: were shot. One was killed. Yeah. See, this is the
Speaker 1: mistake that Daddy made. Daddy was in his Cadillac. My
Speaker 1: brother believed it was an intentional hit on my dad,
Speaker 1: and so Daddy drove into the driveway and he made
Speaker 1: the cardinal mistake of not letting the garage door down.
Speaker 1: So he was sitting in the car with the radio on,
Speaker 1: smoking a cigar, and these two guys with masks, which
Speaker 1: is strange, came up, one to the left and one
Speaker 1: to the right. Both cars were in the garage. And
Speaker 1: you've been over here before, so you know, it's not
Speaker 1: that much space between the wall and the and the
Speaker 1: car parked and the other side, because Mama's car was
Speaker 1: on the Ryan side. And they pointed the gun at
Speaker 1: my dad. Old man get out of the car, and
Speaker 1: Daddy just happened to have his service revolver and you
Speaker 1: know how to have this whole pocket on the door,
Speaker 1: on the left side of the door in the drippings back.
Speaker 1: So that's when he pulled that gun up and he
Speaker 1: shot him, and then he got the car and shot
Speaker 1: the other one. And so then Daddy and Mama had
Speaker 1: just come from abroad. Somebody had just dropped her off.
Speaker 1: She just walked in the door and she was taking
Speaker 1: her clothes off, and she she hurried the gunshot. She
Speaker 1: came to the door with an underwear on. He told
Speaker 1: her get back in the house, and she closed the
Speaker 1: door and called the police, called the nine one one.
Speaker 1: So the guy runs out, he shoots one guy and
Speaker 1: then one guy falls down. I think he died. He
Speaker 1: at him and he failed right before he got to
Speaker 1: Cascade Road, so you can got as far as he
Speaker 1: could the beach triss and fell over on the ground.
Speaker 1: So I think that's the one that died. How was
Speaker 1: your dad's recovery? The gunshots, they didn't hit any Organs,
Speaker 1: but I believe they pausing them to his system, and
Speaker 1: I think that was the reason that daddy died. He
Speaker 1: was a tough man, your dad. Yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: think he got shot. I think he had four gun shots,
Speaker 1: three or four hun Remember he was definitely shot a
Speaker 1: few times. I remember that. I still have the article.
Speaker 1: Any closing words you want to say about J. D. Hudson,
Speaker 1: I love him dearly. I think it was an excellent
Speaker 1: role model. Um. It was wonderful being his daughter. Uh.
Speaker 1: He was very and affectionate, kind man. Um. And every
Speaker 1: Christmas I think about him because he really really loved Christmas.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of boyfriends, a lot of
Speaker 1: christ but my daddy always gave me something for Valentine's Days.
Speaker 1: You aways made sure I had a heart shaped think
Speaker 1: of candy. You know, when there just a little things
Speaker 1: like that. You know. He was just such a It
Speaker 1: was a nice daddy. He was so affectionate and so thoughtful,
Speaker 1: and I just missed. Here I am with Gordon's oldest daughter,
Speaker 1: Camilla as she reflects on who he was as a father.
Speaker 1: Growing up with Gordon Williams as a father, I think
Speaker 1: one thing that sticks out to me is just the
Speaker 1: excitement of knowing when he was coming home. He had
Speaker 1: a signature whistle that he did. I can't whistle, but
Speaker 1: it always said whoooo. That was his way of letting
Speaker 1: us know that he was in the house. And I
Speaker 1: just remember anytime I heard that whistle, I just got
Speaker 1: so excited. He was very kind and loving. He trusted
Speaker 1: us in a weird way, you know, even as children,
Speaker 1: to make good decisions. He had a way of guiding
Speaker 1: you without you know, dictating. He wanted you to to
Speaker 1: learn and live your life, but he was always there
Speaker 1: to drop those jewels of wisdom. You know. One thing
Speaker 1: I always noticed that a lot of people always loved
Speaker 1: him to um that he was loved by a lot
Speaker 1: of people. You know, even we were at gas stations
Speaker 1: or just random places that I didn't even know that
Speaker 1: people would know who he was. Um, somebody would come
Speaker 1: up and give him a handshake or a hug, or
Speaker 1: just have something good to say about him. And what
Speaker 1: do you remember him in your early years being a
Speaker 1: referend and to community and affiliation with the church. I
Speaker 1: remember him younger being more involved in the prison ministry.
Speaker 1: I remember admiring his love for working with the prisoners.
Speaker 1: And I do remember like events they would have at
Speaker 1: the church at Saleman. I remember one event in particular,
Speaker 1: like a bunch of prisoners were able to come to
Speaker 1: the church during the service, and I remember him, you know,
Speaker 1: being involved in that, and I was just thinking, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is really dope, you know, for this to be happening.
Speaker 1: So things like that. I definitely admired with him in
Speaker 1: the church. He was I didn't really hear him speak
Speaker 1: a lot growing up. I just saw more of his
Speaker 1: actions being done. Tell me a little bit or some
Speaker 1: of the memories that you remember, either maybe between you
Speaker 1: and your dad or family members or trip. But what's
Speaker 1: a one or two things that stands out. What sticks
Speaker 1: out with me. Um was in his elder years when
Speaker 1: he was having a bouts of like dementia. One of
Speaker 1: the things was I used to like to put him
Speaker 1: in the car and put and Osley brothers for the
Speaker 1: love of you, and he would kind of just be present,
Speaker 1: you know somehow it made him if he was having
Speaker 1: issues remembering or you know, sometimes that would really frustrate him,
Speaker 1: and he might be in a not one of his
Speaker 1: best moves because he wanted to be, you know, fully
Speaker 1: strong mentally and physically. But I remember when he would
Speaker 1: kind of just be able to sit back in the
Speaker 1: car and I remember just riding ask him where you
Speaker 1: want to go, eat what he feels like eating, and
Speaker 1: you know, being able to take him out to eat,
Speaker 1: roll the windows down and just put on some Osley
Speaker 1: Brothers and he would just be present, you know, be
Speaker 1: there in the moment. And that brought me a lot
Speaker 1: of joy. And this is Gordon's youngest daughter, Barjona, with
Speaker 1: her insights on her father. He was just really kind
Speaker 1: and uh wise father Like I don't remember him yelling
Speaker 1: at me or being kind of a suplinarian. It was
Speaker 1: more so if he wanted me to do something, he
Speaker 1: kind of just told me and he could, you know,
Speaker 1: he just had a way with words or he could
Speaker 1: make you understand what he meant pretty easily and make
Speaker 1: you want to follow it. And um, I remember towards
Speaker 1: the end of his life he would just tell us
Speaker 1: the same things over and over and over again. Like
Speaker 1: he just would say, stay focused, stay focused. Every time
Speaker 1: I talked to him on the phone every time I
Speaker 1: see it, and he would say, but Jonah, stay focused,
Speaker 1: and so things like that just resonated with me throughout
Speaker 1: my life. You know, as I go on my journey,
Speaker 1: tell me about some memories you have of maybe a
Speaker 1: trip that you guys took, or a family dinner or
Speaker 1: something um that stands out. One of my best memories
Speaker 1: is just eating dinner. My dad was really big about
Speaker 1: everyone sitting down at the table as a family and
Speaker 1: eating together, which is something I don't necessarily always with
Speaker 1: my family out. My dad really valued that. So whether
Speaker 1: it didn't matter what we were eating, he just wanted
Speaker 1: us to sit down as a family. We would end
Speaker 1: up sitting at the table for hours just talking, having conversation,
Speaker 1: and they gave us so much time to really get
Speaker 1: to know each other and keep up on what each
Speaker 1: other had going on throughout the day. So, as far
Speaker 1: as back as you can remember, was your dad always
Speaker 1: a reverend or did he become a reverend at some
Speaker 1: point as you grew up. As far as I can remember,
Speaker 1: he was always involved in the church in some way.
Speaker 1: I remember him being a deacon. I think that's my
Speaker 1: earliest memory of him. He worked as a deacon, and
Speaker 1: he was the guy in the church that we would
Speaker 1: say always had all the keys. So just like he
Speaker 1: drove the church man, he was just always involved in
Speaker 1: the church. And which church was that when you were
Speaker 1: growing up, well, well we're going up. We went to
Speaker 1: Salem and he was very involved there. He worked as
Speaker 1: a deacon, and then he also participated in the prison ministry,
Speaker 1: and then he also worked at a rehab house like
Speaker 1: a drug rehab house of bank kid and that he
Speaker 1: headed up. So sometimes we would go to work with
Speaker 1: him there and he did a lot of counseling um
Speaker 1: with people in the community. So I always remember him
Speaker 1: being involved in the community and with the church, and
Speaker 1: you know, just trying to lend a healthy hand to
Speaker 1: younger males especially. And at what point, as you started
Speaker 1: to grow up did you realize that your dad had
Speaker 1: a former life different than the one he was leading
Speaker 1: now as a hustler. I would say when I really
Speaker 1: found out, Jeff was when I met youth and you
Speaker 1: started bringing around like newspaper clippings and things like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, before then I knew people call him chicken man,
Speaker 1: and I had heard kind of stories about his life,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't exactly sure um that he was like
Speaker 1: a hustler um until I got to high school and
Speaker 1: people started showing so much interest in his story, and
Speaker 1: that's when I started learning more. Honestly, I I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm still learning a lot about who he was.
Speaker 1: And if you ask different people, you get a different response.
Speaker 1: And with me being like his lash child, I was
Speaker 1: born so late in his life. I think the version
Speaker 1: of my dad that I got was like this whole
Speaker 1: body minister. So I was kind of shocked to note
Speaker 1: that he was involved in all these different enterprises. I
Speaker 1: would say, as a young man, what were some of
Speaker 1: the things that your dad talked about as growing up
Speaker 1: as a black man in Atlanta or some of the
Speaker 1: racial things that he dealt with growing up that he
Speaker 1: broach those subjects at all. My dad, he more so
Speaker 1: talked about race. And I think this is true of
Speaker 1: him and my mom from their own perspective, Like it
Speaker 1: was never more so about like how they were treated
Speaker 1: by white people. It was more so what their own
Speaker 1: reaction to it was. We just kind of knew you
Speaker 1: work for yourself. One thing that he told me is
Speaker 1: that he felt that black people were better off before
Speaker 1: integration because they had a stronger sense of entrepreneurship and community.
Speaker 1: That's what he told me about race, but never really
Speaker 1: from the perspective that I should look out for any
Speaker 1: race over another, but just more so that if you're
Speaker 1: going to be a black person in America, you have
Speaker 1: to stand up for what you believe it and you
Speaker 1: have to really know your value in the workplace and
Speaker 1: not allow people to use you because you're bringing value
Speaker 1: to whatever you do. Did you ever see him give
Speaker 1: any sermons? Oh? Yes, definitely. What kind of preacher was he?
Speaker 1: My dad was the most laid back preacher, like almost
Speaker 1: too laid back. Like he would just like I said,
Speaker 1: he just talked to you. He wasn't gonna yell at you.
Speaker 1: He wasn't gonna hoop and holler. He was gonna have
Speaker 1: an outline and give you some good tip bits, and
Speaker 1: he might speak for thirty minutes, but it's always gonna
Speaker 1: be like one thing you remember, you know, um, But
Speaker 1: I remember at the end of each sermon he would
Speaker 1: always say, and remember, only what you do for Christ
Speaker 1: will last. More so than a preacher, he was a counselor.
Speaker 1: You know. He was a type that after he gets
Speaker 1: off the pulpit. Then everybody wants to go talk to him,
Speaker 1: you know, get advice from him, tell them about his day,
Speaker 1: you know, about their day. I would say, just a
Speaker 1: kind and caring type of preacher, not not somebody who's
Speaker 1: gonna condemn you for the things you did wrong, but
Speaker 1: more so understanding. And he would always just tell me,
Speaker 1: you know, people are just people. They're always gonna disappoint you.
Speaker 1: You can't hold people to this high standard and expect
Speaker 1: them to be perfect. You'll always be disappointed. You just
Speaker 1: have to let people be who they are. So that's
Speaker 1: how he really operated as a minister as well. Um
Speaker 1: madey grace. How sweet this out to say? Likely When
Speaker 1: I found out that Gordon got Parkinson's, I was really bummed.
Speaker 1: I went to visit him at the v A hospital
Speaker 1: right near where my parents lived. He was weak, but
Speaker 1: he gathered his strength to speak with me one last time.
Speaker 1: We shared a quiet moment of reflection and I said
Speaker 1: my goodbyes. Here's his family talking about the last days
Speaker 1: they were with him at the hospital. This is camill One.
Speaker 1: I remember a particular in his very last days when
Speaker 1: I went to see him in the hospital and I
Speaker 1: think this is the same day that he passed. He
Speaker 1: passed that night, but when I got there that morning,
Speaker 1: I remember when I walked in, you know, just you
Speaker 1: could tell he was extremely weak, but I remember I
Speaker 1: was holding his hand. I had been reading to him
Speaker 1: and things like that, and then he started to move
Speaker 1: a little bit in his face and I just remember
Speaker 1: looking and thinking, oh my god, I think he's about
Speaker 1: to open his eyes. And you could tell that it
Speaker 1: took a lot of effort, but he opened his eyes
Speaker 1: and it was just like for a second. But I
Speaker 1: remember I was smiling, and all the nurses came in
Speaker 1: and they were so happy, you know, that he opened
Speaker 1: his eyes. And so that definitely sticks out to me.
Speaker 1: And he had a way of getting you to learn
Speaker 1: a lesson and from that, I just always remember thinking
Speaker 1: I could do anything, you know, because he was so
Speaker 1: strong to even be on his deathbed and worked so
Speaker 1: hard to be able to see me one more time
Speaker 1: and let me know that I can't make excuses with
Speaker 1: your life. I just gotta persevering no matter what. Like
Speaker 1: he always told us to stay focused and keep moving forward.
Speaker 1: Even in the last days. You know, you can steal accomplish.
Speaker 1: What did you want to accomplish, even if that's just
Speaker 1: open your eyes to see your family. And this is
Speaker 1: part Jona. Well, it seems like those years went by fast,
Speaker 1: from when he was like diagnose with Parkinson's to his
Speaker 1: health beginning to decline. When he got to the end
Speaker 1: of his life where he couldn't say much. Even what
Speaker 1: I would call to talk to my mom on the phone,
Speaker 1: I could hear in the background then like stay focused.
Speaker 1: So he was just trying to give us those last
Speaker 1: you know, messages of who he wanted us to be
Speaker 1: and you know, make that contribution to our life and
Speaker 1: really appreciate that at this age. You know, sometimes I
Speaker 1: wish he was still here, but I think he left
Speaker 1: us with so many, you know, nuggets wisdom. And this
Speaker 1: is his wife, Dolores, talking about the last moments of
Speaker 1: his life. He was okay. You could see that he
Speaker 1: had peace in his heart, he had peace in his mind,
Speaker 1: you know, and he in fact, he told me he
Speaker 1: was ready to go. I said, no, no, no, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to know you're not. You're not ready to go,
Speaker 1: and say you can't leave me as you can't leave
Speaker 1: me with these girls. That's what I said. No, you
Speaker 1: y'all don't be all right, y'all gonna be all right.
Speaker 1: He was really ready to go. And here is Gordon
Speaker 1: Williams Jr. As he was with his father at the
Speaker 1: end when they had to put him on the respirators
Speaker 1: when it really hit me that it was coming to
Speaker 1: an end. So we all went to um because he
Speaker 1: died in South Forks in the hospital on Cleveland Avenue.
Speaker 1: So we all went there and uh and when we
Speaker 1: got there, he was, you know, they had him on
Speaker 1: the respirator and had him on the breathe machine and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. That was that was real difficult. That
Speaker 1: was really difficult looking at my dad like that. But
Speaker 1: I knew that, I knew that the end was near.
Speaker 1: He motioned for me to come, you know, and I
Speaker 1: went over to his bed side, and the loss was
Speaker 1: on this side. I was on that side, and I
Speaker 1: grabbed his hand and he just he squeezed my hand
Speaker 1: and he took his last breath and that was it.
Speaker 1: That was that was something else. He's a good man.
Speaker 1: It's a good man. Yeah. Uh ws walls loud. But
Speaker 1: now I've fun live but noa uh Ce. Fight Night
Speaker 1: is a joint production from I Heart Radio, Will Packer
Speaker 1: Media and Doghouse Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures. Produced
Speaker 1: and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer,
Speaker 1: James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobsen, and Noel Brown.
Speaker 1: Supervising producer is Taylor Scoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown
Speaker 1: and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating and Jim Roberts.
Speaker 1: Edited by at Owen. Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah
Speaker 1: Kulanni Prescott. Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players.
Speaker 1: Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB
Speaker 1: News Film and Video Tape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University
Speaker 1: of Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and
Speaker 1: David Davis. Fight Night is a production of I heart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, check out the
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