1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: From I Heart Radio and Doghouse Pictures. This is fight Night. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: I'm Jeff keating where I'm gonna lay down? My birdens 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: where down. When I first met Chicken Man back in 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: two thousand and three, he was actually Reverend Gordon Williams. 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: He greeted me at his church and we had our 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: first interview together. After a few years, we'd become close friends. 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: We broke bread together, we watched movies together. We talked 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,639 Speaker 1: about our family together, and he ended up counseling my 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: life as well. I also got to know his family, 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: his wife Dolores, his son Gordon Williams Jr. And his 11 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: two daughters, Camilla and Barjona. Here I am with Dolores 12 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: as we talked about the first time she met Gordon Williams. Uh. 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: I was working in the salon doing Better Do first 14 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: year right. So Golden came in and told the receptionist 15 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: that he had an appointment with me, and so I 16 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: heard him and I turned around and looked, I said, 17 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: you know, like and he it was like he just 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: felt me when I said that, because I'm looking kind 19 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: of strange. At the time, I was trying not to 20 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: do me in hair, you know, I was busy, and 21 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: but and then he turned he said, yes, my appointment 22 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: is with Delores. He came, he said, and I began 23 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: to notice him, which was really strange for me because 24 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: I was busy, and guys come in all the time 25 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: and try to be at you and all that, but 26 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: I wouldn't really, you know, for all at it that 27 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: particular time. But there were things that I began to 28 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: notice about it. The way he was dressed. I mean, 29 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: he he was just immaculate, and he was the colors 30 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: were right, and it wasn't too much, it was just enough. 31 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: He was just he was just on it. So he 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: over what he wanted and I cut his hair, and 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: it just so happened that now I got two assistants, 34 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: but both of them were busy at the time when 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: it was start for him to get his hair shampoo. 36 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: So who has left to shampoo his hair? But man, 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: so I took it, you know, to shampoo bowl and 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 1: then I really could check it out. But she and uh, 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: and so when I finished with him, and he you know, 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: came back to the chair and he says, I really 41 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 1: enjoyed my shampoo and everything. He says, I would love 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: to make another appointment with the afterway you can and 43 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: you get really go out to do shop, take the 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: appointment for you know, right back that so, uh that's 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: how we met. You know, he started asking me to 46 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: go after Benner and all that, but I resisted it 47 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: for a long time, but because the fact that I 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: knew he was with somebody, you know, and uh so 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: I didn't want to get into all of that. But 50 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: he wouldn't. He wouldn't give up. Yeah, he wouldn't give 51 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: up on it. So tell me about the early years 52 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: of Dolores and partying and your heyday. What was that like? 53 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,399 Speaker 1: It was? It was amazing, Like I said, immediately when 54 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: I opened the salon, it was so popular and so 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: anybody was to come to town, all of the new 56 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: people they would want to come there. And uh so 57 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: it was we worked hard and we're parded hard. So 58 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: at what point, you know, when you guys are dating, 59 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: like who starts to lean into you know, Jesus and 60 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: the Lord first is it? You? Are you doing it? Okay? Okay, 61 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: So tell me about kind of what led you down 62 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: that path and then how you kind of pulled Gordon 63 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: in with you. Okay, Well, you know, after after a 64 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: while I knew that he cared for me, I really did. 65 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: I knew he cared for me, but he had so 66 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: much going on in his life, so he was going 67 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: back and forth, you know, when his business and all that. 68 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: But it got to the point where he would when 69 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: he was in town, he was going to make sure 70 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: he came back to Salon. And he finally convinced me 71 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: to go out with him, and I did in it. 72 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: And he was such a gentleman. I mean, he would 73 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: make you love it, you know, he would really do that. 74 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: He was free high at he was a gentleman, and 75 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: he would take it to the best of places, and 76 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: and to see a man with his capabilities and his 77 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: personality and everything, he could easily fall in love with him. 78 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: And so that's what happened. And then then after we 79 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: were together for a while, he came my hand and 80 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: brought me to this house. And I've been in here since, 81 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: you know, like the kids were saying, well, they came later, 82 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: but we had gone through quite a few things and 83 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: breaking up, and and with me getting saved and everything, 84 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: you know, I got saved changed my life. So now 85 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: at some point you're married and you've got two young girls. Okay, 86 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: got you, And so tell me a little bit about finally, 87 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, because again this is a long process where 88 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: Gordon realizes, Hey, if I'm gonna be with this lady 89 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: and these two young girls, I got to give up 90 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: this life. So tell me tell me how that happens. 91 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: And like, were you around for the thing where he 92 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: owed like hundreds of thousands of dollars? Yeah, that was 93 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: a scary time. Okay, so tell me tell me that's 94 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: important because this is a story that he tells. And 95 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: so tell me about what was going on and how 96 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: you were feeling and how he was handling all that, 97 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: because that was I mean, that's that's close to death situation. 98 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: Well at this particular time, um, you know, it was 99 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: still the thing of him, you know, going back and forth. 100 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: He was working, you know, kind of what he was 101 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: doing and uh, but it was just getting you know, 102 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: the people that he was dealing with and could just 103 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: tell that things were and then I was able to 104 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: see these things, you know, so I would be finding 105 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: the one in advance, even though I wasn't with him 106 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: all the time, but I said, you know this and 107 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: that and that. So anyway, anyway, they tricked in and 108 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: uh ended up putting them in a bad situation. So 109 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: he was focusing a lot on getting that together, which 110 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: was the rightest thing to do, you know. And uh, 111 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: but at the meantime he ended up he had a 112 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: bullet that had been in his leg for a long time. 113 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: And why this thing? What was that? From the war? 114 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: From the streets? No, well, no, from the streets. He 115 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: got shot. So how did that happen? I think a 116 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: friend of here is something they were either together and 117 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: they got somebody got mad, and but at the time, 118 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: they were, you know, doing what they do. And so 119 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: he gets shot. He's got a bullet in his leg. Yeah, 120 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: I got a bullet in his leg. And he went 121 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: to the hospital for it, but he wouldn't even stay 122 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: that long enough for them to get it out, you know, 123 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: he just felt just left with it. Now this was 124 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: before I met him, Now, yes, I understand. And uh. 125 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: And so he left with the bullet in his leg, 126 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: and I guess he felt that he was all right, 127 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: So he never saw about it. But at this particular 128 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: time when he's down there, he's done a lot of 129 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: stress because they're trying to settle this thing, trying to 130 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: find this these people that stole all the stuff and 131 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: they ended up the bullet popped out of his leg. Yeah, 132 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: he was bleeding. So he ended up in the hospital. 133 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And when he went to the hospital 134 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: where they will be kept him there and they cleaned 135 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: him up and all that kind of stuff, and he stays. 136 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: So that's when he said for me to come down there, 137 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: because can you know? And so I went. And when 138 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: you sit down there, do you mean to Miami? Yeah, okay, 139 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: got you go ahead. But he came out and you know, 140 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: and it was just such a a terrible pan. You know, 141 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: most of the time when you're in the life of crime, tolors, 142 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: it's very hard to get out. It is. When Gordon 143 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: is dealing with a high level situation, a lot of 144 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: money that he owes for drugs, that's just what it was. 145 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: He's got something that stole it from him. And more importantly, 146 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: they're giving him this ultimatum and he talks about this, 147 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: bring me this guy's head in a paper bag, and 148 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: everything's okay. And Gordon isn't a murderer, so he's like saying, listen, exactly, 149 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: I got it. So now he's got to clear to 150 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: this debt, So he's got to sell more drugs to 151 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: clear this debt. But normally after you do that, it's 152 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: so hard to get out. So finally he pays his debt, 153 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: but how does he get out of this life? I'm 154 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: glad that you brought it to the memory. When we 155 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: came home. Then he began to all the contacts or 156 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: whatever he had to to get rid of stuff. This 157 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: is what he began to do. So when when he 158 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: got the money all that he needed to pay, then 159 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: I remember I drove that rode down with him, when 160 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: rode down to Miami and he went, he met with 161 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: them and he paid them and uh and they would saying, 162 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: oh good. Then yeah, this is that, you know, like 163 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: they were so happy to know what else we could 164 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: we can do. He turned around and put his hand 165 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: on his button, said you can kiss. In other words, 166 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: he was through. He was through with it, and he 167 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: did not look back. So what you're telling me is 168 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: after he pays that off and he's like kiss my, 169 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: you know what, he literally is been able to cut 170 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: it all off. He did. Here I am with Gordon 171 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: Williams Jr. As he talks about how his father's lifestyle 172 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 1: affected him as he grew older. At the time, I'm 173 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: taking his place. So I'm selling kilos like crazy sins 174 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: of the father. Yeah, I'm following up my dad's footsteps. 175 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: Then I get busted in Henry County and it's one 176 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: of the largest drug busts in Henry County on record. 177 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: It was a guy who was driving for me, but 178 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: he got caught with twenty nine kilos and he told 179 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: him it was mine. So they picked me up and 180 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: charged me with conspiracy. So that was kind of like 181 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: the catalyst for my dad because it really hurt him 182 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: because now the fans got me. When the Fetz get you, 183 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: the Fez got you. I started off in Georgia Penitentiary. 184 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: How long did you have to serve? Ten years, six 185 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: months and twenty one days. That's a real deal right there. Yeah. Yeah, 186 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: So that that really hurt my dad, you know, because 187 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: I'm his I'm his firstborn, and for me to follow 188 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: in his footsteps and to fall like that changed his 189 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: whole world. And he came to court in my defense. 190 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: I was sending on my birthday, September the ninth. Prior 191 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: to that, he had stopped using. But tell me get 192 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: to the court. He's clean. He's clean, he's clean. The 193 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: judges sentenced me. Just happened to go to school with 194 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: my mom, so he knows about you. So he knows 195 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: about Yeah, he knows about me, and he knows about 196 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: my dad. So they asked, do anybody want to say 197 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: anything before they passed sentison, And my dad gets up 198 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: and says, your I like to speak on my son's 199 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: behalf and tell you that he's not bad and he 200 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: needs a second chance, and if you allow him the 201 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: second chance, you do right by you. And he said, 202 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: I throw myself on the merger of the court that 203 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: please don't sentence him, because they were asking for a 204 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: lot of time for me. They was asking for there 205 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: was asked to life. He told my dad, Mr Willien, 206 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: gona take everything in consideration, and I'm gonna send us 207 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: your son underneath the guidelines because the guidelines are called 208 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: for out of life. I'm gonna give him fifteen years. 209 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: And he gave me fifteen and I serve teen on it. 210 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: I was in Atlanta waiting to move and they had 211 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: a press service down it for the inmates, and they said, 212 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: anybody want to go to press service? I said, yeah, 213 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: you know, I go over there, and when I went 214 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: down to press service, I guess it was there. Your father, 215 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: my dad. He was running the outreach prison ministries for inmates. 216 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: And when he saw me, because I didn't know he 217 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: was coming, and I didn't know he was you know, 218 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: I didn't know he was gonna be there, and when 219 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: I went in, he's you know, he just he started crying. 220 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: You know, you're like God, let him man. Then he 221 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: started getting closer and closer to to the Lord and 222 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: he started, you know, started really confessing his sins and 223 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: started his life started changing. And then that's when he 224 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: opened up the Church International Ministries two thousand. Did he 225 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: did he ultimately get ordained? Yeah? Yeah, he's an ordained minister. 226 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: He was a ordained minister. When he died. He went 227 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: to theologically he went to more House over there, and 228 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: I was like, wow, what a turnaround from a drug 229 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: dealer to a reverend. And he said, yeah, you know, 230 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: I opened up my own church and minister. I said, really, okay, cool. 231 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: When I got out, I got out August the thirty, 232 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, So when I got out, I 233 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: went to the church. So he wanted me to minister 234 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: to the younger guys in the congregation because they didn't 235 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: understand what it was like, you know, to to be 236 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: out here and selling drugs and doing wrong. He said, 237 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: you can give them a message that dad listen to 238 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: because you experienced it. Because my dad never defereral time. 239 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: He never went to prison for as long as I did. 240 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: So he said that I had something to offer. So 241 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: and I started, you know, I started, uh ministering to 242 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: the to the young, to the younger groups there. And 243 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: it was strange seeing my dad transfer for him like that. 244 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: That was a really strange transformation I witnessed because part 245 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: of me leaving he was, you know, I mean chicken man, 246 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: you know, and when you came out, he was what 247 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: Reben Williams. He was Reverend Williams when I came on. 248 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: He had let that that old name die. I mean, 249 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: but you can't get rid of it. I said, you're 250 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: gonna be Chicken Man for life. I don't care. I mean, 251 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: that's what people don't know you. And people people was 252 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: questioning whether his faith was real or not because they 253 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: just didn't want to believe it because they knew him 254 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: prior to meet this man afterwards, and he's talking about 255 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: worshiping God and praying and healing, and it just it 256 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: didn't set well. What a lot of people. When did 257 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: you know that the transformation was real? Well, him and 258 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: Dolores stopped using drugs when they gave their life to Christ. 259 00:13:54,040 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: I knew it was real. My name was real. I 260 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: also stayed in touch with j. D. Hudson over the years, 261 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: and I was shocked to learn about an incredible event 262 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: that happened to him, but not surprised by the outcome. 263 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: I connected with his daughter, Renee, as she told me 264 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: about who j D was as a father and what 265 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: it was like being the daughter of a policeman the 266 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: time that I was in high school. My father at 267 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: that time was a school detective and what does that mean? 268 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: And where was that? Back then, all the schools had 269 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: cops assigned to the school, so if they had problem 270 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: kids or whatever, if there was some kind of Rucka's 271 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: going on or whatever, they were assigned to certain high schools. 272 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: And my father was assigned to high school that I 273 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: went to. Do you think, okay, Renee, you think he 274 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: did that? Imagine? Yeah, do you think he did that 275 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: for a reason? I don't know. I think I know 276 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: your dad oh god, it was just you know, and everybody. 277 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: So I didn't have a whole lot of friends. Of course, 278 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: not you got this cop. That is so now maybe 279 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: some girlfriends that didn't want to you know that were Yeah, 280 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: it was straight lacewere. But no guys are going to 281 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: be like that's true. That's true. Oh my goodness, that's 282 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: that is a that is a j D move. If 283 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: I've ever my God, tell me a little bit about 284 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: your father. What kind of dad was he? What do 285 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: you remember about him growing up? What were some things 286 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: that you remember of being the daughter of J. D. Hudson. 287 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: I love my father. I thought he was He was 288 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: a good dad. He was a hard worker. He'd worked 289 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, excellent provider. Oh. He loved holidays. 290 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: He loved Christmas. His favorite color was blue. So I 291 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: love Christmas too, But everything was blue. We had blue lights, 292 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: had a red blue wreathe, We had blue bulbs, We 293 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: had blue tints along the Christmas tree. And so I said, 294 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: when I grew up, I'm never having anything blue because 295 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: he loved blue. But he loved the holidays. He loved Christmas. Uh, 296 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: he loved wrapping gifts. He and my uncle they would 297 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: play on my brother's toys before my brother and I 298 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: would wake up for Christmas. He would always take us 299 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: on vacation Bangazne. Things were segregated. He loved to go 300 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: to Jackal Island and there was a black side of 301 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: Jackal Island and a white side of Jackal Island. We 302 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, drive to Florida. There were a lot of 303 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: places we couldn't stop. I remember once we stopped somewhere 304 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: and we got gas, and the guy came out and 305 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: called my father the N word, and so my daddy 306 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: told him, you siphon all this gas out of my car. 307 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: That's when I kind of realized the world was not 308 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: the same everywhere, you know, because I had been so 309 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: insulated because in the area that I lived and it 310 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: was all black. He just always taught me to be 311 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: kind to everyone, you know, not to hate. He wanted 312 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: me to do well in school. I think he was 313 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: a pretty nice dad. The only thing about being my 314 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: father's daughter was that it prevented me from having a 315 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: lot of friends. A lot of people wouldn't come over 316 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: because my dad, you know, he started out being a cop, 317 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, and then when he was over the beer 318 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: of corrections, oh my god, you know, and so people 319 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: shied away from me. It was different from my brother. Now, 320 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: my brother that was a different story. But for me, 321 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: oh my goodness, you know, I would said I love daddy, 322 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: but godly, I wish he wasn't a cop. Walk me 323 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: through where you were or when you heard about when 324 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: the guys tried to take the Cadillac from your dad's garage. 325 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: I was in Conyers and I drove over here and 326 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: by the time I got here to the house, they 327 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: had taken my father to the hospital. So then I 328 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: drive to Grady and I'm frantic, and I asked them, 329 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm trying to find the gentleman that got shot and 330 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: it was just brought in by the ambulance. And they said, 331 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: there are two people that just got shot. I said, 332 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? She said, there are two 333 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: people on whatever floor or an emergency their side by side. 334 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: You want the young man or the older man. And 335 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: so I said, what do you mean there are two people? 336 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: So I said, you need to tell the cops. If 337 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: there are two people that got shot, more than likely 338 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: that person that's sitting next this land it to my dad. 339 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: It's a person that shot him. They said, oh, ma'am. 340 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: So I ran to my father and I said, oh 341 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: my god. And do you know the man that shot 342 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: my daddy was right next door. And when he heard 343 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: me tell him the nurses you need to find that 344 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: guy because she shot my dad, he ran out of 345 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: the hospital. Well they caught the guy, you know that, right, Yeah? Okay? 346 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: And then there was two daddy, uh, and they and 347 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: they had a trial, but Daddy didn't tell me anything. 348 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: They didn't go because I wanted to go, but that 349 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. And so by the 350 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: time I found that they had already had a trial. 351 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: And did you know that there was two people that 352 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: were shot. One was killed. Yeah. See, this is the 353 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: mistake that Daddy made. Daddy was in his Cadillac. My 354 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: brother believed it was an intentional hit on my dad, 355 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: and so Daddy drove into the driveway and he made 356 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: the cardinal mistake of not letting the garage door down. 357 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: So he was sitting in the car with the radio on, 358 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: smoking a cigar, and these two guys with masks, which 359 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: is strange, came up, one to the left and one 360 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: to the right. Both cars were in the garage. And 361 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: you've been over here before, so you know, it's not 362 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: that much space between the wall and the and the 363 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: car parked and the other side, because Mama's car was 364 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: on the Ryan side. And they pointed the gun at 365 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: my dad. Old man get out of the car, and 366 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: Daddy just happened to have his service revolver and you 367 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: know how to have this whole pocket on the door, 368 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: on the left side of the door in the drippings back. 369 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: So that's when he pulled that gun up and he 370 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: shot him, and then he got the car and shot 371 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: the other one. And so then Daddy and Mama had 372 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: just come from abroad. Somebody had just dropped her off. 373 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: She just walked in the door and she was taking 374 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: her clothes off, and she she hurried the gunshot. She 375 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: came to the door with an underwear on. He told 376 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: her get back in the house, and she closed the 377 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: door and called the police, called the nine one one. 378 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: So the guy runs out, he shoots one guy and 379 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: then one guy falls down. I think he died. He 380 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: at him and he failed right before he got to 381 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: Cascade Road, so you can got as far as he 382 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: could the beach triss and fell over on the ground. 383 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: So I think that's the one that died. How was 384 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: your dad's recovery? The gunshots, they didn't hit any Organs, 385 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: but I believe they pausing them to his system, and 386 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: I think that was the reason that daddy died. He 387 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: was a tough man, your dad. Yeah, I think I 388 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: think he got shot. I think he had four gun shots, 389 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: three or four hun Remember he was definitely shot a 390 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,959 Speaker 1: few times. I remember that. I still have the article. 391 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: Any closing words you want to say about J. D. Hudson, 392 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: I love him dearly. I think it was an excellent 393 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: role model. Um. It was wonderful being his daughter. Uh. 394 00:21:53,640 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: He was very and affectionate, kind man. Um. And every 395 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: Christmas I think about him because he really really loved Christmas. 396 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of boyfriends, a lot of 397 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: christ but my daddy always gave me something for Valentine's Days. 398 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: You aways made sure I had a heart shaped think 399 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: of candy. You know, when there just a little things 400 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: like that. You know. He was just such a It 401 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: was a nice daddy. He was so affectionate and so thoughtful, 402 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: and I just missed. Here I am with Gordon's oldest daughter, 403 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: Camilla as she reflects on who he was as a father. 404 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: Growing up with Gordon Williams as a father, I think 405 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: one thing that sticks out to me is just the 406 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: excitement of knowing when he was coming home. He had 407 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: a signature whistle that he did. I can't whistle, but 408 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: it always said whoooo. That was his way of letting 409 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: us know that he was in the house. And I 410 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: just remember anytime I heard that whistle, I just got 411 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: so excited. He was very kind and loving. He trusted 412 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: us in a weird way, you know, even as children, 413 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: to make good decisions. He had a way of guiding 414 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: you without you know, dictating. He wanted you to to 415 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: learn and live your life, but he was always there 416 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: to drop those jewels of wisdom. You know. One thing 417 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: I always noticed that a lot of people always loved 418 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: him to um that he was loved by a lot 419 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: of people. You know, even we were at gas stations 420 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: or just random places that I didn't even know that 421 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: people would know who he was. Um, somebody would come 422 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: up and give him a handshake or a hug, or 423 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: just have something good to say about him. And what 424 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: do you remember him in your early years being a 425 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: referend and to community and affiliation with the church. I 426 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: remember him younger being more involved in the prison ministry. 427 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 1: I remember admiring his love for working with the prisoners. 428 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: And I do remember like events they would have at 429 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: the church at Saleman. I remember one event in particular, 430 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: like a bunch of prisoners were able to come to 431 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: the church during the service, and I remember him, you know, 432 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: being involved in that, and I was just thinking, Wow, 433 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: this is really dope, you know, for this to be happening. 434 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: So things like that. I definitely admired with him in 435 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: the church. He was I didn't really hear him speak 436 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: a lot growing up. I just saw more of his 437 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: actions being done. Tell me a little bit or some 438 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: of the memories that you remember, either maybe between you 439 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: and your dad or family members or trip. But what's 440 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: a one or two things that stands out. What sticks 441 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: out with me. Um was in his elder years when 442 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: he was having a bouts of like dementia. One of 443 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: the things was I used to like to put him 444 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: in the car and put and Osley brothers for the 445 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: love of you, and he would kind of just be present, 446 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: you know somehow it made him if he was having 447 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: issues remembering or you know, sometimes that would really frustrate him, 448 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: and he might be in a not one of his 449 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: best moves because he wanted to be, you know, fully 450 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: strong mentally and physically. But I remember when he would 451 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: kind of just be able to sit back in the 452 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: car and I remember just riding ask him where you 453 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: want to go, eat what he feels like eating, and 454 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, being able to take him out to eat, 455 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: roll the windows down and just put on some Osley 456 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: Brothers and he would just be present, you know, be 457 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: there in the moment. And that brought me a lot 458 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: of joy. And this is Gordon's youngest daughter, Barjona, with 459 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: her insights on her father. He was just really kind 460 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: and uh wise father Like I don't remember him yelling 461 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: at me or being kind of a suplinarian. It was 462 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: more so if he wanted me to do something, he 463 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of just told me and he could, you know, 464 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: he just had a way with words or he could 465 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: make you understand what he meant pretty easily and make 466 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: you want to follow it. And um, I remember towards 467 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: the end of his life he would just tell us 468 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: the same things over and over and over again. Like 469 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: he just would say, stay focused, stay focused. Every time 470 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: I talked to him on the phone every time I 471 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: see it, and he would say, but Jonah, stay focused, 472 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: and so things like that just resonated with me throughout 473 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: my life. You know, as I go on my journey, 474 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: tell me about some memories you have of maybe a 475 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: trip that you guys took, or a family dinner or 476 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: something um that stands out. One of my best memories 477 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: is just eating dinner. My dad was really big about 478 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: everyone sitting down at the table as a family and 479 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: eating together, which is something I don't necessarily always with 480 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: my family out. My dad really valued that. So whether 481 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: it didn't matter what we were eating, he just wanted 482 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: us to sit down as a family. We would end 483 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: up sitting at the table for hours just talking, having conversation, 484 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: and they gave us so much time to really get 485 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: to know each other and keep up on what each 486 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: other had going on throughout the day. So, as far 487 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: as back as you can remember, was your dad always 488 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 1: a reverend or did he become a reverend at some 489 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: point as you grew up. As far as I can remember, 490 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: he was always involved in the church in some way. 491 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: I remember him being a deacon. I think that's my 492 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: earliest memory of him. He worked as a deacon, and 493 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: he was the guy in the church that we would 494 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: say always had all the keys. So just like he 495 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: drove the church man, he was just always involved in 496 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: the church. And which church was that when you were 497 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: growing up, well, well we're going up. We went to 498 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: Salem and he was very involved there. He worked as 499 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: a deacon, and then he also participated in the prison ministry, 500 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: and then he also worked at a rehab house like 501 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: a drug rehab house of bank kid and that he 502 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: headed up. So sometimes we would go to work with 503 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: him there and he did a lot of counseling um 504 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: with people in the community. So I always remember him 505 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: being involved in the community and with the church, and 506 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, just trying to lend a healthy hand to 507 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: younger males especially. And at what point, as you started 508 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: to grow up did you realize that your dad had 509 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: a former life different than the one he was leading 510 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: now as a hustler. I would say when I really 511 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: found out, Jeff was when I met youth and you 512 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: started bringing around like newspaper clippings and things like that. 513 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: I mean, before then I knew people call him chicken man, 514 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: and I had heard kind of stories about his life, 515 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: but I wasn't exactly sure um that he was like 516 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: a hustler um until I got to high school and 517 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: people started showing so much interest in his story, and 518 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: that's when I started learning more. Honestly, I I feel 519 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: like I'm still learning a lot about who he was. 520 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: And if you ask different people, you get a different response. 521 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: And with me being like his lash child, I was 522 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: born so late in his life. I think the version 523 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: of my dad that I got was like this whole 524 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: body minister. So I was kind of shocked to note 525 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: that he was involved in all these different enterprises. I 526 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: would say, as a young man, what were some of 527 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: the things that your dad talked about as growing up 528 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: as a black man in Atlanta or some of the 529 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: racial things that he dealt with growing up that he 530 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: broach those subjects at all. My dad, he more so 531 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: talked about race. And I think this is true of 532 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: him and my mom from their own perspective, Like it 533 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: was never more so about like how they were treated 534 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: by white people. It was more so what their own 535 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: reaction to it was. We just kind of knew you 536 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: work for yourself. One thing that he told me is 537 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: that he felt that black people were better off before 538 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: integration because they had a stronger sense of entrepreneurship and community. 539 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: That's what he told me about race, but never really 540 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: from the perspective that I should look out for any 541 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: race over another, but just more so that if you're 542 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: going to be a black person in America, you have 543 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: to stand up for what you believe it and you 544 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: have to really know your value in the workplace and 545 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: not allow people to use you because you're bringing value 546 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: to whatever you do. Did you ever see him give 547 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: any sermons? Oh? Yes, definitely. What kind of preacher was he? 548 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: My dad was the most laid back preacher, like almost 549 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: too laid back. Like he would just like I said, 550 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: he just talked to you. He wasn't gonna yell at you. 551 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: He wasn't gonna hoop and holler. He was gonna have 552 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: an outline and give you some good tip bits, and 553 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: he might speak for thirty minutes, but it's always gonna 554 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: be like one thing you remember, you know, um, But 555 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: I remember at the end of each sermon he would 556 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: always say, and remember, only what you do for Christ 557 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: will last. More so than a preacher, he was a counselor. 558 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: You know. He was a type that after he gets 559 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: off the pulpit. Then everybody wants to go talk to him, 560 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, get advice from him, tell them about his day, 561 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, about their day. I would say, just a 562 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: kind and caring type of preacher, not not somebody who's 563 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: gonna condemn you for the things you did wrong, but 564 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,959 Speaker 1: more so understanding. And he would always just tell me, 565 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, people are just people. They're always gonna disappoint you. 566 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: You can't hold people to this high standard and expect 567 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: them to be perfect. You'll always be disappointed. You just 568 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: have to let people be who they are. So that's 569 00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: how he really operated as a minister as well. Um 570 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: madey grace. How sweet this out to say? Likely When 571 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: I found out that Gordon got Parkinson's, I was really bummed. 572 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: I went to visit him at the v A hospital 573 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: right near where my parents lived. He was weak, but 574 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: he gathered his strength to speak with me one last time. 575 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: We shared a quiet moment of reflection and I said 576 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: my goodbyes. Here's his family talking about the last days 577 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: they were with him at the hospital. This is camill One. 578 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: I remember a particular in his very last days when 579 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,719 Speaker 1: I went to see him in the hospital and I 580 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: think this is the same day that he passed. He 581 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: passed that night, but when I got there that morning, 582 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: I remember when I walked in, you know, just you 583 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: could tell he was extremely weak, but I remember I 584 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: was holding his hand. I had been reading to him 585 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: and things like that, and then he started to move 586 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: a little bit in his face and I just remember 587 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: looking and thinking, oh my god, I think he's about 588 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: to open his eyes. And you could tell that it 589 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: took a lot of effort, but he opened his eyes 590 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: and it was just like for a second. But I 591 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: remember I was smiling, and all the nurses came in 592 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: and they were so happy, you know, that he opened 593 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,479 Speaker 1: his eyes. And so that definitely sticks out to me. 594 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: And he had a way of getting you to learn 595 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: a lesson and from that, I just always remember thinking 596 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: I could do anything, you know, because he was so 597 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: strong to even be on his deathbed and worked so 598 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: hard to be able to see me one more time 599 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: and let me know that I can't make excuses with 600 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: your life. I just gotta persevering no matter what. Like 601 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: he always told us to stay focused and keep moving forward. 602 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: Even in the last days. You know, you can steal accomplish. 603 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: What did you want to accomplish, even if that's just 604 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: open your eyes to see your family. And this is 605 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: part Jona. Well, it seems like those years went by fast, 606 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: from when he was like diagnose with Parkinson's to his 607 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: health beginning to decline. When he got to the end 608 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: of his life where he couldn't say much. Even what 609 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: I would call to talk to my mom on the phone, 610 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: I could hear in the background then like stay focused. 611 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: So he was just trying to give us those last 612 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: you know, messages of who he wanted us to be 613 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: and you know, make that contribution to our life and 614 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: really appreciate that at this age. You know, sometimes I 615 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,399 Speaker 1: wish he was still here, but I think he left 616 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: us with so many, you know, nuggets wisdom. And this 617 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: is his wife, Dolores, talking about the last moments of 618 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: his life. He was okay. You could see that he 619 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: had peace in his heart, he had peace in his mind, 620 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: you know, and he in fact, he told me he 621 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: was ready to go. I said, no, no, no, I'm 622 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: trying to know you're not. You're not ready to go, 623 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: and say you can't leave me as you can't leave 624 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: me with these girls. That's what I said. No, you 625 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: y'all don't be all right, y'all gonna be all right. 626 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: He was really ready to go. And here is Gordon 627 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: Williams Jr. As he was with his father at the 628 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: end when they had to put him on the respirators 629 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: when it really hit me that it was coming to 630 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: an end. So we all went to um because he 631 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: died in South Forks in the hospital on Cleveland Avenue. 632 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,359 Speaker 1: So we all went there and uh and when we 633 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: got there, he was, you know, they had him on 634 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: the respirator and had him on the breathe machine and 635 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: stuff like that. That was that was real difficult. That 636 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: was really difficult looking at my dad like that. But 637 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: I knew that, I knew that the end was near. 638 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: He motioned for me to come, you know, and I 639 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: went over to his bed side, and the loss was 640 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: on this side. I was on that side, and I 641 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: grabbed his hand and he just he squeezed my hand 642 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: and he took his last breath and that was it. 643 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: That was that was something else. He's a good man. 644 00:36:50,840 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: It's a good man. Yeah. Uh ws walls loud. But 645 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: now I've fun live but noa uh Ce. Fight Night 646 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: is a joint production from I Heart Radio, Will Packer 647 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: Media and Doghouse Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures. Produced 648 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer, 649 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobsen, and Noel Brown. 650 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: Supervising producer is Taylor Scoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown 651 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating and Jim Roberts. 652 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: Edited by at Owen. Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah 653 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: Kulanni Prescott. Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players. 654 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB 655 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: News Film and Video Tape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University 656 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: of Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and 657 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 1: David Davis. Fight Night is a production of I heart Radio. 658 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, check out the 659 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 660 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: your podcasts.