1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,360 Victoria Lai: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Victoria Lai. 2 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where women share 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything. 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:29,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. You're in for a 5 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: real treat with today's guest, Victoria Live began her career 6 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: in some of the most traditional, high powered spaces imaginable. 7 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: She's a graduate of Fordham Law School, a former presidential 8 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: appointee who worked at the US Department of Homeland Security 9 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: on immigration policy. Though on paper it was a career 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: many people would consider the end goal. Victoria and I 11 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: met when we worked together on the Obama campaign, and 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: over the years we stayed connected as friends, watching each 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: other's careers evolve in unexpected ways. 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,200 Victoria Lai: For her, that meant to pivot into ice cream. 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: What started as a nights and weekends passion for making 16 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: ice cream exploded into ice Cream Jubilee, an award winning 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: ice cream business famous for its unexpected flavors, often inspired 18 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: by Victoria's Chinese heritage. 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,200 Victoria Lai: Jubilee opened multiple. 20 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Locations across the DC area and received national recognition from 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: outlets like Food and Wine. In the Washington Post and Thrillist. 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: After nearly a decade as a successful ice cream preneur, 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: she made the decision to sell her business. She returned 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: to mission driven work as COO of the Asian and 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Pacific Islander American Health Forum and as principal of the 26 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: VANG Group, connecting back with the legal world and aiming 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: to use what she had learned through her pivot to 28 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: support others. This is Victoria Lie, and this is how 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: she pivots. 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,280 Victoria Lai: What is your name and what do you do? 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,640 Victoria Lai: I'm Victoria I I'm an ice cream preneur and also 32 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,200 Victoria Lai: a business advisor. So I grew up in Houston, Texas. 33 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,920 Victoria Lai: I have one older sister, and my mother's an engineer 34 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,280 Victoria Lai: and my father is a neurologist. 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:08,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: Slackers. 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,720 Victoria Lai: We had a really happy little childhood, but it was 37 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,720 Victoria Lai: very much prescribed like that we should be a doctor 38 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,560 Victoria Lai: or a lawyer. This is non news to anybody that 39 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,720 Victoria Lai: a lot of kids grew up this way. But one 40 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,160 Victoria Lai: thing that we always looked forward to when our dad 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,799 Victoria Lai: had to work late as he was going through med 42 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,360 Victoria Lai: school when we were kids, he would come home so 43 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,560 Victoria Lai: late we were getting ready for bed, and we would 44 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,400 Victoria Lai: have already brushed our teeth and he would come in 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,480 Victoria Lai: and say, who wants ice cream? I'm home and we'd 46 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,680 Victoria Lai: run down the stairs. We'd all share about our day. 47 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,480 Victoria Lai: We'd share bowl of ice cream, and it was just 48 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,480 Victoria Lai: a thing we did together. Ice Cream was joy, it's happiness, 49 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:49,639 Victoria Lai: it's family. 50 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:49,960 Victoria Lai: It's love. 51 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: I do think a lot of dads offer ice cream 52 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: after the teeth are rushed. That is a that's really 53 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:56,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: ringing true. 54 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,399 Victoria Lai: So my parents were like in this map in science, 55 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,880 Victoria Lai: were but they also always had a creative side. My 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,519 Victoria Lai: mother is a fantastic baker and artist, but she never 57 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:13,480 Victoria Lai: considers herself what. She would make these melted chocolate lollipops 58 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,119 Victoria Lai: for me when I was in the second grade, and 59 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,680 Victoria Lai: she would decorated in all different colors. She did all 60 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:25,080 Victoria Lai: this cake decorating. She made this massive train set that 61 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,680 Victoria Lai: was all out of cake for my sister's birthday. I 62 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,040 Victoria Lai: remember this vividly because I got a smaller boat cake, 63 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,200 Victoria Lai: and that jealousy makes. 64 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Victoria Lai: It a core memory. You know. 65 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,800 Victoria Lai: She needle points, croches, made clothes as my sister and 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,840 Victoria Lai: I grew up figure skating. Because she's a very smart woman. 67 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,680 Victoria Lai: Instead of bring us to the track and field track 68 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,720 Victoria Lai: and being outside for hours in Houston, she would go 69 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,120 Victoria Lai: to the mall where the ice rink was and then 70 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,840 Victoria Lai: be able to do labs or a shop or watch 71 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,960 Victoria Lai: us from there. So we grew up figure skating, and 72 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,520 Victoria Lai: she would make all these elaborate outfits and I would 73 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,560 Victoria Lai: just say, like, I like that one on TV, and 74 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,120 Victoria Lai: she would try and replicate. 75 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,280 Victoria Lai: It for us. Oh, that's amazing. 76 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,560 Victoria Lai: I'm the first generation of our family that hasn't had 77 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,720 Victoria Lai: to move countries and learn a whole new language just 78 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,080 Victoria Lai: to have a life. So my mother was born in 79 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,359 Victoria Lai: Singapore and she and her family and our family are Chinese, 80 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,599 Victoria Lai: and her father migrated to Singapore by working on a 81 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:29,600 Victoria Lai: rice merchant boat during the War of Japanese occupation which 82 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,960 Victoria Lai: turned into World War Two, and just slowly got each 83 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,000 Victoria Lai: of his brothers and sisters, my mom's aunts and uncles 84 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,320 Victoria Lai: down to Singapore or Malaysia or wherever they could end up. 85 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,800 Victoria Lai: My father similarly had an interesting immigration store. He was 86 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,120 Victoria Lai: born in Shanghai, but moved before he was ten to 87 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,280 Victoria Lai: Hong Kong because his older brother was getting recruited to 88 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,600 Victoria Lai: be in the Young Red Guard. His mother, my grandmother, 89 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,400 Victoria Lai: who recently passed away at one hundred and one, years old. 90 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,360 Victoria Lai: One a remarkable woman made it her life mission save 91 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,200 Victoria Lai: her family, get them to safety where they could have 92 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,240 Victoria Lai: an education and grow up and have lives that weren't 93 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,679 Victoria Lai: in danger. My parents met in Seattle at the University 94 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,279 Victoria Lai: of Washington, where my dad was a grad student and 95 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,400 Victoria Lai: my mom was an undergrad. And they met at the 96 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,720 Victoria Lai: Chinese Students Organization, and my dad was the president, my 97 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Victoria Lai: mom was like the young secretary of the organization. 98 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,120 Victoria Lai: It's so cute. 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:33,560 Victoria Lai: They have a passion for recognizing when people need a 100 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,960 Victoria Lai: little extra help, and they did that for other people 101 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,960 Victoria Lai: that they saw themselves in who were recent immigrants to 102 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,760 Victoria Lai: the United States, news students to the university. And I 103 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,240 Victoria Lai: think that I probably got some of those lucky genes 104 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,400 Victoria Lai: to really be attuned to the Asian American community and 105 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,640 Victoria Lai: understand that this is a unique and interesting voice. So 106 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,120 Victoria Lai: by the time I was in high school understanding what 107 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,760 Victoria Lai: it meant to be Asian American, I was just passionate 108 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,200 Victoria Lai: about making sure that all of these different, wonderful voices 109 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,599 Victoria Lai: were heard in the America that I know. 110 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,960 Victoria Lai: In love. My mom was an entrepreneur. 111 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,480 Victoria Lai: She built houses, So she would design and build houses 112 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,400 Victoria Lai: with her brother and sell them one by one, like 113 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,080 Victoria Lai: instead of like baking an incredible cake, she would literally 114 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,840 Victoria Lai: build a house and then sell it to somebody who 115 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,280 Victoria Lai: would make it their dream home. And then I became 116 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,240 Victoria Lai: a little baby entrepreneur. I got little imitation kids from 117 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,039 Victoria Lai: Target and would take orders of like how I would 118 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,520 Victoria Lai: puff paint them, And so I did glitter paint and 119 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,200 Victoria Lai: puff paint, and this is when I was in the 120 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,760 Victoria Lai: third grade, write their name on it, like let. 121 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,560 Victoria Lai: It dry for two days because there was so much 122 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,320 Victoria Lai: paint on there. 123 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,800 Victoria Lai: And then like I had a little hustle, but I 124 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,160 Victoria Lai: got shut down by the school. But it was a 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,000 Victoria Lai: lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. So 126 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,760 Victoria Lai: doing something creative was always there, but you always do 127 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:56,520 Victoria Lai: it on the side. 128 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: You said the only options you felt like, the only 129 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: options in your head doctor or lawyer? 130 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,279 Victoria Lai: Did you ever consider doctor? And did you have a 131 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,360 Victoria Lai: passion for law. 132 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,680 Victoria Lai: I remember being in the second grade and telling people 133 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,080 Victoria Lai: that I wanted to be a cardiologist. I knew that 134 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,240 Victoria Lai: was a hard doctor, but I didn't know why I 135 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,520 Victoria Lai: wanted to be a cardiologist. So I knew how to 136 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,400 Victoria Lai: fit into a box. As I continued through my science courses, 137 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,360 Victoria Lai: I recognized that that was not going to happen. 138 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,160 Victoria Lai: I was like, it's clear enough that I'm not good 139 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:25,400 Victoria Lai: at this. It's going to be law. 140 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,680 Victoria Lai: I'm not going into medicine, so what are my other options? 141 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,120 Victoria Lai: I always had a passion for government. Government, governs, the 142 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,960 Victoria Lai: system of laws, So in that way I was always 143 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:41,160 Victoria Lai: interested in laws. I never watched like SVU or Law 144 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,320 Victoria Lai: and Order or like really liked the law in that way, 145 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,200 Victoria Lai: but I always enjoyed reading the news, and I thought 146 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,520 Victoria Lai: at some point emerged enough that I could continue saying 147 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,800 Victoria Lai: that law was a possibility for me. 148 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:55,800 Victoria Lai: Can I tell you? 149 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: It's so funny about you using that reference of like 150 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: law and order that when I was in law school, 151 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: I had a consentnation and constitutional law. 152 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,520 Victoria Lai: So every semester I had either like. 153 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Con law, law evidence something, and so I would use 154 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: episodes of law and Order to test myself, Like that 155 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: was my version of fun. When I was outside the textook, 156 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'd be like, okay, pause it, okay, what rule would 157 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: get this admitted into evidence? That was like how I 158 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: had fun them all. Yeah, it's the low bar for 159 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: fun possible exactly. Yeah, you broke it up. 160 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:24,480 Victoria Lai: That's good. 161 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,600 Victoria Lai: So I left Houston and went to Wellesley college because 162 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:36,000 Victoria Lai: they sent me this beautiful, glossy magazine pamphlet with Madeline 163 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,079 Victoria Lai: Albright and you know, first Lady Hillary Clinton at the time, 164 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,679 Victoria Lai: Pam Melroy and all these authors and scientists and amazing women. 165 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,440 Victoria Lai: I'm like, I don't know what I want to do, 166 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,560 Victoria Lai: and I'm not sure if this is right for me, 167 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,959 Victoria Lai: but these women are so amazing I need to be 168 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,720 Victoria Lai: in their orbit. So I went there and after undergrad 169 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,120 Victoria Lai: started working on political campaigns, and it wasn't until a 170 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,800 Victoria Lai: sort of came to its own sort of natural ends. 171 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,560 Victoria Lai: There's a frenetic pace, I might'd say, maybe that's an 172 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,680 Victoria Lai: understatement of political campaigns. That's so awesome when you're twenty two. 173 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,520 Victoria Lai: It's like I can have four beers and not feel 174 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,640 Victoria Lai: it and keep working and wake up at six point 175 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,000 Victoria Lai: thirty the next morning and eat only tacos and anyhow, 176 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,600 Victoria Lai: it was so much fun, and you meet so many 177 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,400 Victoria Lai: people with passion, with great ideas, and just so many 178 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,040 Victoria Lai: wonderful people. So I did political campaigns, move back to Houston, 179 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,079 Victoria Lai: and then got an opportunity to move to Washington, d C. 180 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,280 Victoria Lai: I was working for a member of Congress and looking 181 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,559 Victoria Lai: around and saying like we could do so much more 182 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,280 Victoria Lai: for the Asian American Pacific Islander community if we had 183 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,280 Victoria Lai: a little bit more effort in this place, this place, 184 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,200 Victoria Lai: in this place. So I reached out to a few people, 185 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,280 Victoria Lai: you know, did what I was doing all through college, 186 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,480 Victoria Lai: like sending out unsolicited cover letters. I would love to 187 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,800 Victoria Lai: work for you and here my ideas. I'm nineteen, but 188 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,880 Victoria Lai: I did that, and I got a call from the DNC, 189 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,200 Victoria Lai: the Democratic National Committee, and saying like, Okay, well, you're 190 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,520 Victoria Lai: already doing this sort of job for us. We'd love 191 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,280 Victoria Lai: for you to step in this role as an advocate 192 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,080 Victoria Lai: for the API community to help us win our next 193 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,679 Victoria Lai: big election. That was my first huge job on a 194 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,040 Victoria Lai: national campaign as a national director of Asian American Pacific 195 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,560 Victoria Lai: Islander Outreach. But when that ended, I didn't know what 196 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:31,959 Victoria Lai: to do. 197 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: Feeling unsure about what the future held, Victoria moved to 198 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: New York City for law school, committed to unearthing what 199 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: her next pivot should be. She'll tell us about the 200 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:58,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: creative inspiration she found there just after the break. 201 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,000 Victoria Lai: Manhattan is the place to explore while I figure this out. 202 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,679 Victoria Lai: I'm in my twenties. I love it here. 203 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:07,520 Victoria Lai: Why not. 204 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,400 Victoria Lai: I sort of just went with what sounded fun and 205 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,880 Victoria Lai: was passively filling my resume. But I knew I needed 206 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:16,959 Victoria Lai: a break. Law, wasn't it? But I didn't have any 207 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:17,640 Victoria Lai: other ideas. 208 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did you find new creative outlets, like new creative side 209 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: hustles while you were in law school? 210 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,240 Victoria Lai: Well, you know what was really a game changer for 211 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,320 Victoria Lai: me was my cousin lived in Brooklyn and Carroll Gardens 212 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,040 Victoria Lai: when I was in law school, and he and his 213 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,760 Victoria Lai: girlfriend soon be a wife, had this beautiful little garden 214 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,400 Victoria Lai: in their Brooklyn apartment and they grew heirloom tomatoes and 215 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,160 Victoria Lai: fancy beans and a little bit of flowers. Oh, and 216 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,880 Victoria Lai: they had these concord grapes like that tastes like Pubba 217 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,280 Victoria Lai: Bubba great bubble gum. It was so incredible, and they 218 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:53,679 Victoria Lai: would take photos of it and they would just put 219 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:59,280 Victoria Lai: it on Flicker, no blog or caption, no like hashtags, 220 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,400 Victoria Lai: because that didn't exists back then. And I was visiting 221 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,400 Victoria Lai: them and one day they were like, oh, look what 222 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,360 Victoria Lai: just came out? And the New York Post had collected 223 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,160 Victoria Lai: the three gardening blogs you have to be following the summer. 224 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,880 Victoria Lai: And it wasn't even fully a blog. It was just 225 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,400 Victoria Lai: a series of photos that were beautiful, but something about 226 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,360 Victoria Lai: them doing what was natural and what they loved, sharing 227 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,400 Victoria Lai: their heart and their beauty with the world without caring 228 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,240 Victoria Lai: how many people saw it got enough attention that a 229 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,680 Victoria Lai: major New York publication was amplifying it. 230 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:33,840 Victoria Lai: To the entire world. 231 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,880 Victoria Lai: I was like, Wow, that sounds a lot easier than 232 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,480 Victoria Lai: I thought it would be. Because all of us have 233 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,480 Victoria Lai: this authentic self, all of us should be able to 234 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,120 Victoria Lai: identify what we find beautiful, should be able to create 235 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,120 Victoria Lai: something like that, and it just takes the courage to 236 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,240 Victoria Lai: share it and then the rest of the world will 237 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,000 Victoria Lai: come to you. That's when I decided I'm going to 238 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,560 Victoria Lai: find something to do, and I went on Craigslist and 239 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,600 Victoria Lai: I got a twenty five dollar ice cream maker that 240 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,880 Victoria Lai: had never been used, given to some random guy as 241 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:05,959 Victoria Lai: a wedding present. 242 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,599 Emily Tisch Sussman: I was just about to say, this sounds like a 243 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:08,199 Emily Tisch Sussman: wedding present. 244 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,719 Victoria Lai: It was totally an unused ice cream maker that was 245 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,520 Victoria Lai: a wedding present, and you had to put the chamber 246 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Victoria Lai: in the freezer to make ice cream. The problem is 247 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,160 Victoria Lai: that I, on my law school budget, was in an 248 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,480 Victoria Lai: unair conditioned Manhattan apartment. The kitchen on the summer day 249 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,280 Victoria Lai: could be you know, you could wake up at six 250 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,520 Victoria Lai: in the morning and it could be like ninety degrees, 251 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,440 Victoria Lai: so ice cream wasn't happening. 252 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,720 Victoria Lai: But I already knew the flavors that I wanted to make. 253 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,720 Victoria Lai: I remember one time I had a conversation with somebody 254 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,480 Victoria Lai: and it was a beautiful Manhattan night. We looked at 255 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,480 Victoria Lai: the sky and it was lit up bright orange. Something 256 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,679 Victoria Lai: was happening. It was one of those magical sunsets. I said, 257 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,800 Victoria Lai: that sunset looks like a cantleuped sorbet. Wouldn't you want 258 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,240 Victoria Lai: to make that and maybe have, oh, a candle up 259 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,280 Victoria Lai: teargun sorbet? That would be a lot better. What if 260 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,160 Victoria Lai: you made it like a grenita and who served it 261 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,960 Victoria Lai: with a cocktail? Don't you guys think like that? And 262 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,760 Victoria Lai: everybody at me and said, no, we don't think like that. 263 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,040 Victoria Lai: You're the only person who thinks like that, And I 264 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,840 Victoria Lai: was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't say anything more like that, 265 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,760 Victoria Lai: only to realize, you know, several years later, is that 266 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,560 Victoria Lai: being the only person who thought like that is a strength, 267 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,480 Victoria Lai: especially when you know when you're talking about ice cream 268 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,160 Victoria Lai: and flavors, there's nothing to lose, So why not be 269 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,120 Victoria Lai: that crazy person with weird flavors. 270 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:28,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, but it maintained a side project. It's a side project. Yeah. 271 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,960 Victoria Lai: And then I had graduated at law school and I 272 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,840 Victoria Lai: had an offer to join this wonderful, prestigious law firm, 273 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,480 Victoria Lai: but I had a clerkship to complete beforehand. 274 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,880 Victoria Lai: Before she started that clerkship. 275 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Still energized by the frenzy of campaign work, Victoria moved 276 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: to Pennsylvania to be the assistant director of voter Protection 277 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: for the Obama campaign, which is also where we first met. 278 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,840 Victoria Lai: That was so much fun. There are so many incredible people, 279 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,440 Victoria Lai: you mean, on a campaign, just like you, Emily, and 280 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,800 Victoria Lai: so many people so I'm still dear friends with to 281 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,200 Victoria Lai: this day, many of whom had full time jobs that 282 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,000 Victoria Lai: they were taking breaks from to do something they felt 283 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:15,280 Victoria Lai: passionate about, to energize the electorate around a person, a cause, 284 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,720 Victoria Lai: and a moment that they believed in. And I felt 285 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,920 Victoria Lai: like I found my people in that way, because everybody 286 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,040 Victoria Lai: was taking a mini pivot if they were taking time 287 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,680 Victoria Lai: from their job to be working on a campaign, and 288 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,200 Victoria Lai: everybody had like three x energy. 289 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, it was the Obama campaign. It was two thousand 290 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: and eight, so it was Obama's first campaign, and I 291 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: remember on the campaign, people keep saying, oh, this is 292 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: unlike any other campaign. And I had worked on a 293 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: campaign before, and you had worked on a campaign before, 294 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: And I kind of remember thinking, well, it's actually kind 295 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: of like every other campaign in any ways, Like nobody 296 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: really wanted to hear that if it was their first campaign. 297 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: But I do think you're right that people were very 298 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: excited to be there, like extra excited to be there. 299 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,640 Victoria Lai: It was exciting, It. 300 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,240 Victoria Lai: Was amazing, no shortage of like next level smart people 301 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,600 Victoria Lai: that you could meet. I had a three month break 302 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,560 Victoria Lai: between when the clerkship ended and when my law firm 303 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,760 Victoria Lai: job would begin. I was experiencing great anxiety and very 304 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,440 Victoria Lai: stressed out. I felt like this was for my last 305 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Victoria Lai: opportunity to do something I really wanted to do. I 306 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,320 Victoria Lai: put a lot of pressure on myself to soul search 307 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,440 Victoria Lai: and think, what can I never do. I can always 308 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,800 Victoria Lai: go to a beach, or visit Las Vegas, or sit 309 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,400 Victoria Lai: on my couch like some other time, But what do 310 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,520 Victoria Lai: I really want to do? And I decided I wanted 311 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,880 Victoria Lai: to work in food. So at a baseball game, I 312 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,400 Victoria Lai: met a friend who was working at this famous pie 313 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,320 Victoria Lai: shop in Brooklyn called four and twenty Blackbirds, and I said, 314 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,200 Victoria Lai: I really want to work there. Labor days coming up? 315 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,480 Victoria Lai: Do you have any openings. I will wipe the tables, 316 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,800 Victoria Lai: make the pies, sweep the floors, whatever you need. I 317 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,440 Victoria Lai: just want to test out what it's like in this environment. 318 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,160 Victoria Lai: It felt like a really big ask, but it really wasn't, 319 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,000 Victoria Lai: you know, like if you want to try out a 320 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,640 Victoria Lai: different career, especially going and helping another small business using 321 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,960 Victoria Lai: the tools that I had, I baked a pie, took 322 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,040 Victoria Lai: a photo of it with my tiny, little, you know, 323 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:15,040 Victoria Lai: sixteen megapixel flick flip phone and said, I love making pies. 324 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,000 Victoria Lai: Please can I work for you? And the timing and 325 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,800 Victoria Lai: the stars were right, and I went and I worked 326 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,280 Victoria Lai: at four and twenty Blackbirds for about three weeks while 327 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,280 Victoria Lai: somebody was on vacation. No air conditioning where I was standing, 328 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,959 Victoria Lai: where I was rolling out all the pie crusts, and 329 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,320 Victoria Lai: I was standing right by the oven, and I had 330 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,600 Victoria Lai: to commute forty five minutes to get down there. 331 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,960 Victoria Lai: But I loved every moment of it. You know, there's joy. 332 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,960 Victoria Lai: In tactile tasks, especially when you're creating something that comes 333 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,520 Victoria Lai: from love and that produces joy. So these sisters who 334 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,480 Victoria Lai: own the business they would modernize and re release their 335 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,360 Victoria Lai: grandmother's pirin from North Dakota where they all grew up 336 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:08,639 Victoria Lai: and tell their grandmother stories through pie, and everybody enjoyed 337 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,560 Victoria Lai: being a part of that story, as did I. So 338 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,800 Victoria Lai: I asked them if I could bring my ice cream 339 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,320 Victoria Lai: and sell it with pie, because ice cream and PI 340 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,600 Victoria Lai: go so well. And they were very honest, and they said, 341 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,120 Victoria Lai: there is one big reason why we don't serve ice 342 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,119 Victoria Lai: cream here. My sister would eat all the ice cream. 343 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,159 Victoria Lai: We wouldn't be able to keep it in stock, but 344 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,480 Victoria Lai: we'll give it a try. I hadn't revealed that I 345 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,160 Victoria Lai: had no way of like bringing large quantities of ice 346 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,399 Victoria Lai: cream on the subway from Midtown down to Guanas. But 347 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,919 Victoria Lai: I didn't have to cross that bridge because literally the 348 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,600 Victoria Lai: same day that they expressed that they were open to 349 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,240 Victoria Lai: selling my ice cream, I got a call from Washington, DC, 350 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,800 Victoria Lai: from the Department of Homeland Security saying you've passed clearance. 351 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,640 Victoria Lai: You were recommended for this job that you interviewed for, 352 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,520 Victoria Lai: and we'd really love for you to come and work 353 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,040 Victoria Lai: for the Administration within US Citizenship and Immigration Services, which 354 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,439 Victoria Lai: handles all legal immigration to the United States, which is 355 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,800 Victoria Lai: you know, the version of the Department that made our 356 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,879 Victoria Lai: American dream possible, my family's migration history possible, and I 357 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,320 Victoria Lai: would be there in an attorney advisor capacity. So it's 358 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,199 Victoria Lai: everything that I felt like my life had led up 359 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,280 Victoria Lai: to at that moment that wasn't ice cream, and I 360 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,080 Victoria Lai: had to say yes. 361 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,560 Victoria Lai: So I moved to Washington, DC. 362 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: Despite taking a government job with the Department of Homeland 363 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: Security in DC, Victoria was determined to accelerate the creative 364 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: momentum she had picked up in New York. 365 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,720 Victoria Lai: I had met people who had moved back to d 366 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,560 Victoria Lai: C and visited New York, and there was a common 367 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,639 Victoria Lai: thread and complaint that DC just doesn't have what New 368 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,919 Victoria Lai: York has, that if I were in New York, my 369 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,480 Victoria Lai: life would be a little bit better. And New York 370 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,280 Victoria Lai: is so special and I love it. But I swore 371 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,359 Victoria Lai: to myself I did not want to be those people. 372 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,160 Victoria Lai: I did not want to feel like I gave up 373 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,359 Victoria Lai: something when I moved to d C. I never wanted 374 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,840 Victoria Lai: to be in a position where I felt like if 375 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,159 Victoria Lai: I were in New York, then I would live my 376 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,280 Victoria Lai: life with flavors and colors and storytelling, because no city 377 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:12,960 Victoria Lai: controls that. 378 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,480 Victoria Lai: I'm in total control of doing that. 379 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,720 Victoria Lai: So I think that that move made me promise to 380 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,760 Victoria Lai: myself that I would stick with ice cream sort of 381 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,399 Victoria Lai: as a personal growth exercise. But that makes it sound 382 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,840 Victoria Lai: more cerebral than it was. It was just a promise 383 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,400 Victoria Lai: to myself, and I said, you know what, I am 384 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,200 Victoria Lai: going to see if I can turn it into something, 385 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,439 Victoria Lai: and then I'm going to be so obsessed with it. 386 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,680 Victoria Lai: I'm going to try and hate it, you know, because 387 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,600 Victoria Lai: I'm going to be that crazy person who loves ice cream. 388 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,320 Victoria Lai: Because there are lots of crazy people in both cities 389 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,600 Victoria Lai: who spend every waking moment that they're not at their 390 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,120 Victoria Lai: job training for a marathon. Can I spend just as 391 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,879 Victoria Lai: many waking moments making ice cream and talking about ice cream? 392 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,119 Victoria Lai: And why is one crazier than the other. So I 393 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,359 Victoria Lai: came to DC with this mentality that I could do 394 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,760 Victoria Lai: it all, I could find my true self, and I 395 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,719 Victoria Lai: could have my dream job in the government. So there 396 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,480 Victoria Lai: was a legal component of it, there was a communications 397 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,200 Victoria Lai: component of it. There was a heavy management and people 398 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,320 Victoria Lai: component of it. And it was so exciting to be 399 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,600 Victoria Lai: in a place that had the potential to change so 400 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,680 Victoria Lai: many lives. It was exciting to be part of something bigger, 401 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,200 Victoria Lai: and this was my dream job. 402 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,119 Emily Tisch Sussman: What was your version of success at that point? Like 403 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: you had achieved your goal, So then did you think 404 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: that you would stay in government, stay in homeland security, 405 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: stay in immigration, and move your way up. What was 406 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: the next goal for you? 407 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,600 Victoria Lai: Well? I wasn't really sure. 408 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,800 Victoria Lai: I wanted to be a part of comprehensive immigration reform, 409 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,520 Victoria Lai: but that's not in the control of the executive branch, 410 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,159 Victoria Lai: and when it hit some hurdles in Congress, it was 411 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,840 Victoria Lai: clear that any improvements would be made around the edges. 412 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,600 Victoria Lai: It's important to remember that government is full of so 413 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:10,399 Victoria Lai: many wonderful, smart, capable, well meaning, dedicated people. But after 414 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,760 Victoria Lai: maybe two years or so, I knew that it wasn't 415 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,639 Victoria Lai: my language, just like law wasn't my language. There was 416 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,879 Victoria Lai: some part of me that I couldn't bring to work 417 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,719 Victoria Lai: every day. I chopped it up to it just being 418 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,160 Victoria Lai: a job. You know, you don't bring your cocktail party side, 419 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,520 Victoria Lai: or your clubbing side or whatever. 420 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,040 Victoria Lai: You're at your job. You're at your work. 421 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,120 Victoria Lai: But having worked at the pie shop before, having experienced 422 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,960 Victoria Lai: like a connection with people, whether it's from the campaign 423 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,600 Victoria Lai: or people in food, I just felt like I was 424 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,440 Victoria Lai: ready to take another leap. I had had my dream job, 425 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,440 Victoria Lai: and I knew that there was another dream job out 426 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,000 Victoria Lai: there for me. 427 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: So Victoria doubled down on making ice cream again, a 428 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: lot of ice cream, so much ice cream that she. 429 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:57,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: Ran out of freezer space. 430 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Remember at that time, you would send out Facebook events. 431 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,199 Emily Tisch Sussman: She started on we did you email firs your Facebook 432 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: events first? I remember getting both and you would say, hey, guys, 433 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: it's Victoria from the campaign. Will you come try all 434 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: my ice cream flavors? 435 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: And you did it for. 436 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: A while, like maybe more than a year, like you 437 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: were doing it every weekend. Yeah, which one did you 438 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: do first? 439 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,879 Victoria Lai: Remember you said it up. I probably did it at 440 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,640 Victoria Lai: the same time, you know. I mean. 441 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,840 Victoria Lai: So, there's so many good and bad habits that you 442 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,640 Victoria Lai: learn on a campaign, and sending mass emails is one 443 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,760 Victoria Lai: of those good and bad habits that I was a 444 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,520 Victoria Lai: little bit not shy about. It's so funny in retrospect 445 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,639 Victoria Lai: to hear from your perspective, because I was nervous about 446 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,400 Victoria Lai: sending that out, and everybody who received it was like, uh, yes, 447 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,040 Victoria Lai: I'll try all your ice cream. 448 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,000 Victoria Lai: I'll be there at noon. What were you nervous about? 449 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,040 Victoria Lai: I just thought that it sounded very weird that I 450 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,560 Victoria Lai: made four to eight flavors of ice cream every week 451 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,639 Victoria Lai: while holding down a pretty serious job and then asking 452 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,440 Victoria Lai: people to take time out of their busy weeks to 453 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,040 Victoria Lai: come and see if it was any good. There's so 454 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,760 Victoria Lai: many close friends who are like, yes, I remember that 455 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,840 Victoria Lai: time I came to your apartment, or I came to 456 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,600 Victoria Lai: your rooftop and we had like thirty two flavors of 457 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,240 Victoria Lai: ice cream to try, or sixteen flavors of ice cream. 458 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,919 Victoria Lai: And one thing that I know is that if you 459 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,080 Victoria Lai: have a dream, or you don't even know if it's 460 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,600 Victoria Lai: your dream yet, you're doing yourself a disservice by not 461 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,760 Victoria Lai: putting it out in the world, especially to your friends 462 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,520 Victoria Lai: and saying like this is something I love to do, 463 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,360 Victoria Lai: because well, first of all, setting a goal like inviting 464 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,159 Victoria Lai: friends to come over to your house to try a 465 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,240 Victoria Lai: lot of ice cream forces you to make all of 466 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,600 Victoria Lai: that ice cream and think about why you're making those 467 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,360 Victoria Lai: flavors of ice cream. So I had these tasting parties 468 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,840 Victoria Lai: every weekend for you know, maybe a year, because it 469 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,120 Victoria Lai: was just a side hustle. I was trying to make 470 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,280 Victoria Lai: myself hate making ice cream. At some point, I'm going 471 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,280 Victoria Lai: to be so tired of making ice cream, be so 472 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,600 Victoria Lai: tired of eggs and cream and the process. My freezer 473 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,680 Victoria Lai: will be too full and I'll just stop and I'll say, like, WHOA, 474 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,399 Victoria Lai: wasn't that fun? Maybe I'll get into crocheting now. And 475 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,720 Victoria Lai: that just never happened. And I wouldn't have known that 476 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,879 Victoria Lai: this was right for me if I hadn't pushed that. 477 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,199 Victoria Lai: Because once you go into it and it's your business, 478 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,199 Victoria Lai: it's your job, you have no choice. It has to 479 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,600 Victoria Lai: be your whole life, and that's not the time to 480 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:28,639 Victoria Lai: decide that you hate it. 481 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: So when was that switch? At what point did you 482 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: say this is my business now? 483 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,320 Victoria Lai: I tried it out being a business a few times, 484 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,360 Victoria Lai: and it didn't work because I didn't have a car 485 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,320 Victoria Lai: in DC. I was like, we're going to have bike 486 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,040 Victoria Lai: messenger ice cream subscriptions throughout the summer, you know, sign 487 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,040 Victoria Lai: up here and you get four flavors every month and 488 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,160 Victoria Lai: we'll buke it to your house. 489 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:51,919 Victoria Lai: I lived in a. 490 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,440 Victoria Lai: Very small neighborhood near all of my friends and had 491 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,320 Victoria Lai: no concept of how hilly Washington, d C. Actually is, 492 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,920 Victoria Lai: so that did not work. But I kept pressing on. 493 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did you feel discouraged when that kind of thing happened 494 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: to say, like, oh, I'm just going to stop. 495 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,320 Victoria Lai: No, I felt pretty stupid. That's like one of the 496 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,960 Victoria Lai: things I could have looked up. Like Washington, DC is 497 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,560 Victoria Lai: actually hilly. I never went there because I never had 498 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:18,600 Victoria Lai: a car to drive there. 499 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: That's when Victoria discovered the DC Scoop competition, where ice 500 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: cream paneurs go head to head to compete for. 501 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,240 Victoria Lai: The title of best ice cream in the city. 502 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,080 Victoria Lai: They were having the DC Scoop competition, and I went 503 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:35,960 Victoria Lai: there and I enjoyed some ice cream, and I looked 504 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,800 Victoria Lai: around and said, I don't know how I'm going to 505 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,320 Victoria Lai: do it, but I'm going to compete in DC Scoop 506 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,000 Victoria Lai: next year. This is something that I can do. I'm 507 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,400 Victoria Lai: going to win this thing. To be eligible, I needed 508 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,800 Victoria Lai: to make my ice cream in a commercial kitchen. So 509 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,119 Victoria Lai: I had like eleven months to figure out how to 510 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,399 Victoria Lai: put all of these things in place to compete in 511 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,560 Victoria Lai: the city wide ice cream competition. So that's when I 512 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,679 Victoria Lai: think I started having ice cream parties to understand like 513 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,879 Victoria Lai: which flavors were really popular. And then a friend of 514 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,560 Victoria Lai: mine sent me a picture and said, hey, my friends 515 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,720 Victoria Lai: are looking into the space and if they opened a 516 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,159 Victoria Lai: commercial kitchen, would you like to be one of the 517 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,399 Victoria Lai: first tenants, And they turned out to be the folks 518 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,000 Victoria Lai: who opened Union Kitchen, which was a commissary kitchen, an 519 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,160 Victoria Lai: incubator that's changed so many lives in businesses and epicures 520 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,280 Victoria Lai: around the city, launched so many businesses, and that was great, 521 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,760 Victoria Lai: and I was so lucky to be in the right 522 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,679 Victoria Lai: place at the right time to get in there and 523 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,520 Victoria Lai: make ice cream with them. So I didn't really know 524 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,680 Victoria Lai: how to approach the DC scoop competition other than how 525 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,320 Victoria Lai: I would approach any other political campaign. So I had 526 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,920 Victoria Lai: a team of probably about eighteen friends, many who were 527 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,040 Victoria Lai: former campaign people who have no qualms about asking random 528 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,000 Victoria Lai: strangers to give money, vote for someone, or try free 529 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,399 Victoria Lai: ice cream. One of those three is much easier than 530 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,800 Victoria Lai: the other two. I had sixteen different flavors there, and 531 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,960 Victoria Lai: there were eighteen different businesses, like well established ice cream businesses. 532 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,280 Victoria Lai: It was ninety eight degrees outside and it was really 533 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,960 Victoria Lai: impossible to keep the ice cream cool enough to serve. 534 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,480 Victoria Lai: But through a lot of hustle and a lot of 535 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,919 Victoria Lai: talking and a lot of ice cream sharing, there was 536 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,560 Victoria Lai: like an event wide vote and ice cream jubilee was 537 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,640 Victoria Lai: chosen as the best ice cream by the Peaceful's Choice. 538 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,680 Victoria Lai: And so that was twenty thirteen, and I was like, well, 539 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,080 Victoria Lai: that's great. It's Sunday. I'm exhausted, it's hot, I'm covered 540 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,040 Victoria Lai: in ice cream. But then I was like, well, I 541 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,360 Victoria Lai: have to go to work tomorrow. I'm exhausted, but I'm 542 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,880 Victoria Lai: going back to work because that was just the competition. 543 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:44,560 Victoria Lai: That was my goal. 544 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,640 Victoria Lai: I don't know what was next, but that's sure was fun. 545 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,320 Victoria Lai: And sometime in the next week or two, I got 546 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,960 Victoria Lai: a call from someone who said, Hey, I don't know 547 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,360 Victoria Lai: if you've heard of this neighborhood called the Navy Yard. 548 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,440 Victoria Lai: It's in SOUTHEASTDC. It's right by the baseball stadium. We're 549 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,800 Victoria Lai: looking for ice cream shop to complete the businesses that 550 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,360 Victoria Lai: are down there. I'm a huge fan of ice cream Jubilee. 551 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,080 Victoria Lai: If you would ever think about opening a store, please 552 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,440 Victoria Lai: let us know. So I hung up the phone, and 553 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,480 Victoria Lai: my knee jerk thought was no, Like, I did not 554 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,760 Victoria Lai: get here to work for Barack Obama and be a lawyer, 555 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,600 Victoria Lai: and my parents to go through all of their education 556 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,320 Victoria Lai: and all of their migration for me to give up 557 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,240 Victoria Lai: this career to become an ice cream seller. Small business 558 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,840 Victoria Lai: is hard. Food businesses are hard, Like what would I 559 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,560 Victoria Lai: be setting myself up for? But just in case, let 560 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,520 Victoria Lai: me just do the math, let me figure this out. 561 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,440 Victoria Lai: And I started calculating, you know, how many ice cream 562 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,400 Victoria Lai: cones I would have to sell on a hot summer day, 563 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,600 Victoria Lai: on the coldest winter day, on a weekend, on a 564 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,360 Victoria Lai: Tuesday in the middle of the school year. How much 565 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,040 Victoria Lai: money could I generate through ice cream? And how much 566 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,280 Victoria Lai: is the rent? And how much much as labor? And 567 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,200 Victoria Lai: just slowly, slowly, slowly, I did the hypothetical profit and 568 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,840 Victoria Lai: loss calculations before I put it together a business plan, 569 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,920 Victoria Lai: because all of that storytelling part of the business plan. 570 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,720 Victoria Lai: That's easy. I had been doing that for years. But like, 571 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,360 Victoria Lai: could this actually really work? 572 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,960 Victoria Lai: Do I have what it takes to analyze the financials 573 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,280 Victoria Lai: of a business? Or do I hate it so much 574 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,200 Victoria Lai: I never want to touch it? Because if I hate 575 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,960 Victoria Lai: it so much, if I like making ice cream and 576 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,000 Victoria Lai: I don't like the numbers, then I shouldn't start a business. 577 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,560 Victoria Lai: I should just make ice cream. And every time I 578 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,080 Victoria Lai: tried to make myself hate something, whether it's social media 579 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,640 Victoria Lai: or finances or licensing with the city, it turned out 580 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,400 Victoria Lai: to be something that I liked, like, I'm just curious 581 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,760 Victoria Lai: about learning new things and figuring out that systems are 582 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,680 Victoria Lai: designed to work. So I had named the little blog 583 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,960 Victoria Lai: where I was posting pictures of my ice cream flavors 584 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,840 Victoria Lai: ice cream Jewlie, because ice cream makes you happy, and 585 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,360 Victoria Lai: jubilee is a word that means a celebration, but also 586 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,960 Victoria Lai: it's impossible not to smile when you say jubilee jubilee, 587 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,240 Victoria Lai: and so I decided that that was going to be 588 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,000 Victoria Lai: the business name. I knew that my first few flavors 589 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,080 Victoria Lai: would be cookies and cookie dough, Banana, bourbon, caramel, Thai 590 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,280 Victoria Lai: iced tea, cardimel, black pepper. 591 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,320 Victoria Lai: I had this maple ripe. 592 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:28,520 Victoria Lai: Con that was really good, passion fruit orange guavas torbet 593 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,640 Victoria Lai: that parkened back to my mother's childhood in Hawaii, where 594 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,320 Victoria Lai: she stopped off before she ended up in Seattle, and 595 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,480 Victoria Lai: the sodas that they have there. And every flavor told 596 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,760 Victoria Lai: a story of a place I visited or I wanted 597 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,120 Victoria Lai: to visit, a memory that I had a great dessert 598 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,960 Victoria Lai: that I once tried, something that I heard of that 599 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,640 Victoria Lai: I did wanted to try to dessert smashed together. It 600 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,720 Victoria Lai: baffled my mind that some people had never thought about 601 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,680 Victoria Lai: putting a cookie with an oreo together and eating it 602 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,080 Victoria Lai: together as an ice cream sandwich. We used to do that. 603 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,440 Victoria Lai: That's a lot of fun. Then exploring that with someone 604 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,680 Victoria Lai: and saying like, hey, here's something new for you to try. 605 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,040 Victoria Lai: Didn't that make your day? 606 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: Victorian knew it was time to take the plunge, leave 607 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: her job and commit to turning her passion project into 608 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: a successful business. When we come back, she'll walk us 609 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: through her vision for ice Cream Jubilee. 610 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:32,480 Victoria Lai: Stay tuned. Once you've decided to. 611 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: Jump in and make ice Cream Jubilee your full time job. 612 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:36,880 Victoria Lai: What was your goal then? 613 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: Was it to grow as big as possible and sell? 614 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: Was it to stay local to DC? 615 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Like? What metrics were you using? 616 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,880 Victoria Lai: I was so excited to open ice Cream Jubilee and 617 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,360 Victoria Lai: to share my flavors and have a brick and mortar 618 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,960 Victoria Lai: shop and announce that I was here. I didn't think 619 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,600 Victoria Lai: too much about the next step. I remember speaking to 620 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,520 Victoria Lai: someone who was an established restaurant tour here and he said, excellent, 621 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,200 Victoria Lai: you know you're doing really well. You're about to open 622 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,360 Victoria Lai: your store. You have to set goals for yourself. In 623 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,920 Victoria Lai: six months, you should try to take two hours off 624 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,280 Victoria Lai: in the morning of a weekday, all the other time 625 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,800 Victoria Lai: you should be working, and then six months from then, 626 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,320 Victoria Lai: you can take half of a weekday off when the 627 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,920 Victoria Lai: store is not open, and then a year from now 628 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,920 Victoria Lai: you can take half of a weekend off, and then 629 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,280 Victoria Lai: like a year and a half from now, you know, 630 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,840 Victoria Lai: let's try and take a whole day off, but not 631 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,840 Victoria Lai: a weekend. I love having those metrics, and I was like, well, 632 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,520 Victoria Lai: this is what it means to work in a small business. 633 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,640 Victoria Lai: And I think that I had that level of dedication 634 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,760 Victoria Lai: to seeing its success, so that wasn't a problem for me. 635 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,040 Victoria Lai: I wanted to have an ice cream shop that was 636 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,360 Victoria Lai: the best in DC, and before I even opened, the 637 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,800 Victoria Lai: Washington Post ranked all of the best ice cream stores 638 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,240 Victoria Lai: and named ice Cream Jubilee the best ice cream in DC. 639 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,280 Victoria Lai: And I was just giddy. I didn't know what was 640 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,640 Victoria Lai: next after that. And then the following year we got that, 641 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,960 Victoria Lai: and then the following year we got that, and then 642 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,360 Victoria Lai: Eater and Bon Appetite and Food and Wine were naming 643 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,400 Victoria Lai: the best ice creams in the country, all the shops 644 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,960 Victoria Lai: that you need to go and visit, and ice Cream 645 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,960 Victoria Lai: Jubilee was on that and different magazines. More Magazine wanted 646 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,040 Victoria Lai: to tell my story, and NBC News came and asked 647 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,480 Victoria Lai: if they could do a feature on how I opened 648 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,759 Victoria Lai: the ice cream store, how small businesses are bearing and 649 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,800 Victoria Lai: it was just such a dream come true. As I 650 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,640 Victoria Lai: grew ice Cream Jubilee from one store to two stores, 651 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,600 Victoria Lai: to three stores to four stores, I started to understand 652 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,360 Victoria Lai: where the limitations were right of me being so hands 653 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,080 Victoria Lai: on and sort of simultaneously I got married and had 654 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,439 Victoria Lai: my first little baby, and then had a second little 655 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,359 Victoria Lai: baby right before the pandemic. I was so happy with 656 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,160 Victoria Lai: and so proud of everything that my team and I 657 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,160 Victoria Lai: had created together. I love working with flavors and the 658 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,759 Victoria Lai: photos and living my life in flavors and colors. But 659 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,360 Victoria Lai: while I acknowledged that I achieved what I wanted to 660 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,760 Victoria Lai: do with it, I didn't really have the same drive 661 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:16,080 Victoria Lai: to make this a national company or franchise. Even though 662 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,200 Victoria Lai: I came Julie at one point was sold in like 663 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:23,560 Victoria Lai: eleven different states through Whole Foods. Maintaining that and growing 664 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,560 Victoria Lai: that felt like a different business, and so I felt 665 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,440 Victoria Lai: like I had achieved what I wanted to and working 666 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,680 Victoria Lai: in the business was keeping me from what I really 667 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,200 Victoria Lai: wanted to do, which was to be at home with 668 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,520 Victoria Lai: my two and a half and six month old babies. 669 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,200 Victoria Lai: I just knew that I had another pivot ahead so 670 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,600 Victoria Lai: I could live my next dream job, which, as cliched 671 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,239 Victoria Lai: as it was, was being a mom. 672 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: So Victoria started laying the groundwork for her next pivot, 673 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: selling the ice cream business she had poured her heart 674 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: into for the last decade. After walking away from her 675 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: government career to bring her dream to life, she had 676 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: to face the difficult reality that her passion no longer 677 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: worked for her, so she set out to find a 678 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: way to let go of the business that she had 679 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:10,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: built from the ground up. 680 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,080 Victoria Lai: I started vocalizing that I have this wonderful ice cream shop. 681 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,440 Victoria Lai: It's my baby, and I'm looking for someone to take 682 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,040 Victoria Lai: it to the next level. Those are hard conversations to 683 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,560 Victoria Lai: have because so attached to me being part of it, 684 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,720 Victoria Lai: my heritage as an Asian American person, to creating 685 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,239 Victoria Lai: flavors like don tot egg custard or citrus, Sichuan peppercorn 686 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,360 Victoria Lai: or redbean on my cookie. They're like, if you leave Victoria, Like, 687 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,839 Victoria Lai: what's going to happen to ice cream? Jubilee and I'm 688 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,520 Victoria Lai: like much better things like ice Cream Jubilee has such 689 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,560 Victoria Lai: a bright future ahead of it, and I have such 690 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,480 Victoria Lai: a bright future, but together it's not the fit anymore. 691 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,240 Victoria Lai: So I happened to bring this up to a friend, 692 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,920 Victoria Lai: a very trusted friend, and she said, I think I 693 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,799 Victoria Lai: know somebody that you need to meet. And it was 694 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,680 Victoria Lai: a local group of family members who had been fans 695 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,840 Victoria Lai: of ice Cream Jubilee for years. One had ordered eighty 696 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,640 Victoria Lai: pints of ice cream right at the beginning of the 697 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,319 Victoria Lai: pandemic to give to his father in law because they 698 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,640 Victoria Lai: couldn't be there for the big celebrations that they planned, 699 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,520 Victoria Lai: and I remembered them peripherally from that amazing experience. And 700 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,319 Victoria Lai: then also because they were successful business people in DC, 701 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,799 Victoria Lai: and they said, we love your brand. We really think 702 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,919 Victoria Lai: that it has so much potential. You've done so much 703 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,400 Victoria Lai: for it. If you would trust us with the next step, like, 704 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,279 Victoria Lai: let's keep talking. And it was a scary step to 705 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,239 Victoria Lai: take because technically it's an acquisition. It's like m and 706 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,560 Victoria Lai: A mergers and acquisitions, corporate law. All of these things 707 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,319 Victoria Lai: that I had avoided when I was a law firm 708 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,040 Victoria Lai: was now what I was facing as a business owner. 709 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,240 Victoria Lai: But it was totally okay. 710 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,279 Victoria Lai: You know, It's just like I didn't know how to 711 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,000 Victoria Lai: approve a plumbing plan. I learned it and I approved it, 712 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,040 Victoria Lai: and I helped draft our documents and I handed it off, 713 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,040 Victoria Lai: handed off my baby to the next chapter of ice 714 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,319 Victoria Lai: Cream Jubilee, And they've been able to open four or 715 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,240 Victoria Lai: five news stores in the DMB area all around Maryland 716 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,719 Victoria Lai: and Virginia and more people are experiencing joy through ice 717 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,600 Victoria Lai: cream because of that. And then I get to be 718 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,640 Victoria Lai: home with my babies on the weekends and at nights 719 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,320 Victoria Lai: and Scooba s cream only for them, which is selfish, 720 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,319 Victoria Lai: but it's it's where I need to be. 721 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did you maintain a position in the company in any 722 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: sort of earnout or you were just cold turkey? 723 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:46,680 Victoria Lai: Yeah? 724 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Ice cream, so to speak, cold ice cream. Cold ice 725 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:50,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: cream is better than cold turkey. 726 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,000 Victoria Lai: Yeah. 727 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,120 Victoria Lai: I maintained an advisory position for a little while and 728 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,560 Victoria Lai: we've sort of phased that out. But I'm always there 729 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,319 Victoria Lai: eating ice cream obviously, and promote the brands and I'm 730 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,239 Victoria Lai: always rooting for them. 731 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,960 Victoria Lai: And then, how did you decide to come upon this 732 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,440 Victoria Lai: now newest chapter for you? First? 733 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,000 Victoria Lai: I wanted to take a break, you know, and I 734 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,600 Victoria Lai: wanted to reconnect with friends that I hadn't seen for 735 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,560 Victoria Lai: a long time as I was pushing hard with my 736 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,760 Victoria Lai: business and reconnect with painting and drawing and maybe learning 737 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,400 Victoria Lai: the piano and all of these things that I thought 738 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,000 Victoria Lai: sounded so fun. But I reached out to a friend 739 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,160 Victoria Lai: of mine and said, listen, I've learned so much running 740 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,279 Victoria Lai: a business. I know that other businesses, nonprofits, organizations and 741 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,480 Victoria Lai: people of all type could use a little help here. 742 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,560 Victoria Lai: And a friend said, have you talked to our other 743 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,520 Victoria Lai: mutual friend? He was literally just asking me if I 744 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,080 Victoria Lai: knew anybody who could join his business as a CEO, 745 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,239 Victoria Lai: and I was like, oh gosh, wouldn't that be amazing. 746 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,880 Victoria Lai: So now I'm working for a company that is just wonderful, 747 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,000 Victoria Lai: just transformative. They work with law firms and law partners 748 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,040 Victoria Lai: who are experiencing a shift in their career and need 749 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,520 Victoria Lai: a little bit of a recalibration for culture and wellness 750 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,919 Victoria Lai: and the human aspects of running in a really intense job. 751 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,920 Victoria Lai: So through coaching, we can bring people into a place 752 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,520 Victoria Lai: of clarity and comfort and control of their own business. 753 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,640 Victoria Lai: And that's really what we seek with all of our lives, 754 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,239 Victoria Lai: right to feel in control of your own income, of 755 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,520 Victoria Lai: your own decisions, of your own schedule, to know you 756 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,480 Victoria Lai: have direction with your lives. So I feel really privileged 757 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:26,440 Victoria Lai: to be a part of this. 758 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: Is there something that at the time you saw as 759 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: a real low point, but now you see it as 760 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: having really set you up for the success. 761 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:35,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: That you are. 762 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,799 Victoria Lai: So I would say that my very lowest point was 763 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,040 Victoria Lai: a specific moment, and I think I had all sorts 764 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,080 Victoria Lai: of hormones coursing through my body because I was It 765 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,600 Victoria Lai: was two in the morning, and I was nursing my 766 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,720 Victoria Lai: newborn and checking my phone in the debt of winter, 767 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,880 Victoria Lai: and there's not a lot of ice cream sales in 768 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,440 Victoria Lai: the debt of winter. I had just finished construction on 769 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,480 Victoria Lai: a second location, and I didn't know if we could 770 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,799 Victoria Lai: make it through to pay payroll that month. And I 771 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,400 Victoria Lai: had so much stress of my staff and my team 772 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,640 Victoria Lai: to make sure that they could live the life that 773 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,960 Victoria Lai: they had dedicated to my business idea, my ice cream dream. 774 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,520 Victoria Lai: And I wasn't being present to this newborn who was 775 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,840 Victoria Lai: completely dependent on me, And I said, what am I doing? 776 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,200 Victoria Lai: There must be a better balance out there, And I 777 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,600 Victoria Lai: think from there I started to understand and listen to 778 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,440 Victoria Lai: myself about what was important to me, and then started 779 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,040 Victoria Lai: guiding my decisions about like do I want to take 780 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,760 Victoria Lai: my multimillion dollar company into an even larger multimillion dollar company, 781 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,160 Victoria Lai: or have I achieved the goals that I wanted to 782 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,319 Victoria Lai: do here. I've already had my ice cream dream job, 783 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,120 Victoria Lai: I've had my government dream job, I have my campaign 784 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,359 Victoria Lai: dream job. What else is out there that I can 785 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,480 Victoria Lai: do while having my home life dream job? So I 786 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,839 Victoria Lai: feel so lucky to have the support system that I have. 787 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,080 Victoria Lai: I feel lucky that I found my passion, that I 788 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,040 Victoria Lai: have other passions, that I have a wonderful husband who 789 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,840 Victoria Lai: supports me. I have wonderful kids who make me so happy. 790 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,239 Victoria Lai: That I have great friends who encourage me to take 791 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,120 Victoria Lai: risks and vocalize any crazy dreams that come up. That 792 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,040 Victoria Lai: I just wish that on everybody else. Do you think 793 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,239 Victoria Lai: you'll pivot again? I think it's very likely, but I will. 794 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,080 Victoria Lai: I have no idea what it would entail. I just 795 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,520 Victoria Lai: love getting into new environments and getting to know new 796 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,560 Victoria Lai: people and being helpful anywhere I can. I've been thinking 797 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,960 Victoria Lai: a lot about this, that women and minority business owners 798 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,760 Victoria Lai: make up the majority of the businesses. The small businesses 799 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,000 Victoria Lai: owned in the United States. But I feel like there's 800 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,719 Victoria Lai: a cultural component that makes people not think about a 801 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,279 Victoria Lai: next chapter exiting your business. You think of all these 802 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,200 Victoria Lai: home based businesses that women might have that are so 803 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,520 Victoria Lai: similar to what their grandparents or their mothers might have 804 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,440 Victoria Lai: done to support their family, just so they could have 805 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,680 Victoria Lai: a leg up on education costs or whatever it may be. 806 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,920 Victoria Lai: There isn't enough. 807 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,640 Victoria Lai: Support to encourage women business owners to make a pivot 808 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,600 Victoria Lai: and to say, oh, I've learned so much from this business, 809 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,799 Victoria Lai: but I know what I would do differently next time. 810 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,200 Victoria Lai: I don't have to close down this business. I don't 811 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,640 Victoria Lai: have to pass that down to my kids. I could 812 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,920 Victoria Lai: actually exit, and here are the steps to do that. 813 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,520 Victoria Lai: And I feel like if there was more guidance on 814 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,640 Victoria Lai: that path, then we could really transform the lives of 815 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,080 Victoria Lai: so many women out there and families who are part 816 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,040 Victoria Lai: of that business fabric. 817 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,680 Victoria Lai: Inherently. Thank you so much, Victoria, Thank you so much. 818 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Victoria still lives and works in DC, using the skills 819 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,919 Emily Tisch Sussman: and knowledge she has gained from her pivots to help 820 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: coach others and guide them through professional obstacles with compassion. 821 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,759 Emily Tisch Sussman: Victoria's story is a reminder that sometimes the thing you've 822 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: wanted it and worked for doesn't serve you anymore, and 823 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: you're allowed to pivot back while still moving forward. You 824 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: can visit ice Cream Jubilee locations across the DMV to 825 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: try Jubilee's unique flavors for yourself. Talk to you next week. 826 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: Thanks for listening to she pivots. If you like this episode, 827 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: follow the show so you never miss a pivot story 828 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: and share it with one woman in your life who 829 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: might need to hear it. To learn more about our 830 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: guests and join our community, follow us on Instagram at 831 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: she pivots the podcast our Subscribe to our substack for 832 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: exclusive content and behind the scenes conversations. You can also 833 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:42,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: find us at shepivotspod dot com. This episode was produced 834 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: and edited by Paige Davis Janatt, with sound editing and 835 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: mixing by Nina Pollock. Logistics and planning by Amostopic and 836 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: Kendall Crupkin. Research by Christine Dickison. She Pivots is proud 837 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: to be a part of the iHeart Podcast Network. I 838 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:07,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: endorse she pivot