1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: We had two pairs of boots. We had our workboots 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: and our dress boots. They both had to be shine though. 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: And some of these guys didn't have families sending commissary money. 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: They didn't they couldn't get this stuff, so they would barter. 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, maybe they got a cigarette from somebody and 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: they traded that for a couple of stamps. So they 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: traded this. But you needed to have the bare necessities 8 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: to get through. It actually reminds me of Shawshank remember 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: when Tim Robinson were tore in the roof and he 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: makes the deal. I just wanted a couple of sods 11 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: for my co workers, and I remember buying with my 12 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: commissary money. I bought everybody in my work detail a 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: thing of shoeshine polish. That made me feel like, hey, 14 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: I'm at the bar. I bought tomma beer or I 15 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: bought Jimmy beer like that made me feel normal and 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: it was a good moment for me. 17 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 2: From my heart radio in doghouse pictures, this is shock incarceration. 18 00:00:52,840 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 3: I'm Jeff keating. 19 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: By this laid in the program, platoons lost a number 20 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 2: of inmates who had either tapped out or been kicked out. 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 2: Inmates did not want to lose sight of the finish line. 22 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: But just because they had their gold hats did not 23 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: mean the final stretch was going to be easy. 24 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 4: Here's ed. 25 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 5: There's been en a few times where I've had some 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 5: doubts of me being able to complete it. There's a 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 5: situation where a drill instructor, for some reason, every time 28 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 5: I ran into him, he just focused on me. If 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 5: you were on the PT deck and there's two hundred inmates, 30 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 5: he would pick me out. And he came over and 31 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 5: he just started braiding me, asking me question after question. 32 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 5: You're so good at asking the questions. You didn't have 33 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 5: an answer, And I thought, this is it. 34 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 6: I'm done. 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 5: I'm going to get my ass kicked, but I don't care. 36 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 5: I'm gonna at least throw a good couple of punches. 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 5: And he was a big drill instructor. He would have 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 5: messed me up in two seconds. So I stepped back. 39 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 5: I start crying, and he looked at me and he 40 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 5: goes revere. I finally broke you. I broke you, and 41 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 5: he walked away and I was standing out there. You 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 5: don't know what to do, you know, wipe myself up 43 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 5: and just started writing the letter. About four or five 44 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 5: days later, I'm going through the mess hall and he 45 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 5: grabs me up, snatches me out Revere and I tell you, 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 5: I broke you because of simple reason. You think you're 47 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 5: smarter than everybody. You don't think you have a problem 48 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 5: like everybody else. He goes, You're no different than anyone 49 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 5: else in here. He goes, you need to get humble, 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 5: and he was right. 51 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: Mark was humble on several occasions as well, including one 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: incident during confrontations. 53 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: This was a guy that when we did confrontations, we 54 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: would actually get together and say, hey, I'm going to 55 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: call you up for this. You called me up for this, 56 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: so I knew what he was going to confront me on, 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, and we would get through this. The drill 58 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: instructor's desk. 59 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 4: Is off limits. You are not allowed to touch it. 60 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: You are not allowed to take anything off of it 61 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: unless obviously you ask for permission. And he's sitting there. 62 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: In this case, the drill instructor Caposi was not there. 63 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: But I needed his scissors. I needed to do something, 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: so I took the fucking scissors. I looked around, I 65 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: will admit, and I went up and I grabbed the 66 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: scissors and I brought him back and I did what 67 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: I had to do at my clothes, and then I 68 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: brought them back there. And nobody knew the difference except Nash. 69 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: He saw me do it, and Nash called me out 70 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: on it. He called me out on it. And again, 71 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: it's not a minor little thing. You're not cut in 72 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: your corners. This is stealing. Technically, that's a golden rule, 73 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: no stealing in shock. This was something that I was 74 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: called in by drill and structor Ugleston. Did you take 75 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: those scissors off Caposei's desk, sir, Yes, sir, I did. 76 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: I admitted it. Now if I said I didn't, well, 77 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: Nash told me it did. But then it's the you know, 78 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: he said, she said, I just said, you know what, 79 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: let's talk about integrity. Let's talk about this, let's talk 80 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: about doing the right thing. 81 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 6: Sir. 82 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 4: Yes, sir, I did. I needed to, you know, handle 83 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 4: my clothes. 84 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: He appreciated me telling the truth, and then he quite 85 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: honestly just told me don't. 86 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 4: Do it again. Very simple. 87 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: But I got pissed at Nash, you know, for wrapping 88 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: me out. You know, that's why we had to do 89 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: the friendship blog, and we all had to get our 90 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: mattresses on our head and do ten laps around our 91 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: dorm because I took the scissors off of his desk. 92 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: But Mark and Ed also learned that even in shock incarceration, 93 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: there were ways to work the system. 94 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: Sometimes you even butt it up with somebody and say, hey, 95 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to write a confrontation on you. I'm just 96 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: going to say you didn't square your corners, you know, 97 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: because you have to when you walk in. You have 98 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: to square your corners. And he'll be like, all right, 99 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: all right, I'll do that with you. So you could 100 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: go back and forth. But one thing they did was 101 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: as the program progressed, they wanted your confrontations to progress. 102 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: They knew everybody was going to put in an oh 103 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: a fellow pier and dash he didn't square his corners, 104 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: or he'd laid down for two minutes when the drill 105 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: instructor laughed. I mean this is the stuff people, Right, 106 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: as you progressed with the confrontation, you came up with 107 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: something a little bit more severe through counseling. 108 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 6: That's the thing getting pulled up. 109 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 5: They're called pull ups where you see another inmate doing 110 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 5: something wrong and you must tell on them. U genius idea, 111 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 5: because at least the drill instructors knew everything that's going 112 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 5: on behind closed doors. Now, if you've seen something that 113 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 5: someone did wrong and you did pull them up, you 114 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 5: would get pulled up. And it's even worse. There's also 115 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 5: a thing called the red seat or the hot seat, 116 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,239 Speaker 5: and that's also part of counseling. If you a person 117 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 5: needs extra counseling, they would put their name in a 118 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 5: hat in this bucket and the reason why you believe 119 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 5: this person need the extra counseling, And then the counselor 120 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 5: would take a red share and put it in the front. 121 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 5: And everybody had to say something about you negatively. 122 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 6: And you used to have a saying there's no throwing roses, 123 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 6: so you got blasted. 124 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 5: They said, who's a person or persons that has not 125 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 5: written any pull ups? And I just sat there and 126 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 5: of course they said, well add I'm. 127 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 6: Like, gosh shit. So I had to go out and. 128 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 5: The drill instructor made me every single day do a 129 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 5: pull up. He goes make it up. I don't care. 130 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 5: So I used to go to some of the other 131 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 5: inmates and say, hey, Brook can I pull you up 132 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: so you know ahead of time that you didn't lace 133 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 5: your boots right. He's like, yeah, yeah, sure, okay, as 134 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 5: long as I know it's coming. 135 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 6: So I was doing that. Then I got caught. 136 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 2: Mark was getting so close to graduation, but each day 137 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: the pressure built as the end drew near. Mark used 138 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: the letters from his family and friends to give him 139 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: hope and strength for the next day. 140 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: And you would lay in bed and you'd read them, 141 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: and you'd read it again. You'd read them three or 142 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: four times. You knew exactly what the next sentence was. 143 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: You wanted a connection. I got letters from my ex wife, 144 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: my sisters, my father, cousins, and you picture their voice 145 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: reading it. Other people have asked me, you know, what 146 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: was it like going to bed at night and it's dead, silent. 147 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: You're sleep in a room with fifty five inmates, walks 148 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: of life from all over New York. But you read 149 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: a couple of good letters and you can fall asleep. 150 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: But sometimes when you messed up, then you got something 151 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: crazy next to you at lights out. 152 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: The six foot raiser was both a learning and a 153 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: humiliating tool, and basically it was an indication that you 154 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: don't know how to shave. Every single day you shaved 155 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: and got inspected, and if you were having some troubles, 156 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: the drill instructor would make sure that you would take 157 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: the time to correct what you're doing wrong. So he 158 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: would give you this styrofoam six foot razor and you 159 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: would have to take it with you twenty four hours 160 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: a day. Essentially, you would light next to your bed 161 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: when you go to sleep, but in the morning, the 162 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: minute you got up, that's with you all day. 163 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: One of the main purposes of the program was to 164 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: prepare them for life outside of prison if they were 165 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: able to graduate and get parole. The drill instructors worked 166 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: with the inmates to set realistic objectives throughout their time 167 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: in shock. 168 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 7: We'd teach one in the near term. For our midterm 169 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 7: goal was they laid on their goals and then I 170 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 7: just look at someone ridiculous. Of course, martin nat school. 171 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 7: You know a lot of kids. I'm gonna do this, 172 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 7: I'm gonna all this, and then you set the reality. 173 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 7: Hey guys, you're convicted fellers, you know, can't be a 174 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 7: state senator. You can comput lucky if you get the 175 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 7: right the row and some of the things they put 176 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 7: on their paper, well good luck and everyone, I shatter 177 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 7: your dream. Like a lot of them want to join 178 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 7: the military. But of all my platoons, I never saw 179 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 7: one able to get in as a convicted felon. So 180 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 7: you try to chapter goes out and maybe ain't be 181 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 7: a painter, be a floor cover, be an electrician, and 182 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 7: then evokes you know, do landscaping. They do different things, 183 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 7: and so that's where we try to push these kids 184 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 7: in the right direction for the future. And that's kind 185 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 7: of the message I try to teach these kids. 186 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: But I think he saw something in me that was 187 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: a little different than some of the other inmates. Maybe 188 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: I want to believe that, but the way he acted 189 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: towards me, I thought was a little bit more of 190 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: a boss employee versus a correctional officer. 191 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 4: And an inmate, if that makes sense. 192 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: As part of the process to completing shock incarceration, each 193 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: platoon with gold Hats had to choreograph their own synchronized 194 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: march to perform at graduation, and they had limited time 195 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: to get it ready. 196 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: We had to do our march, We created it, and 197 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: he had to approve it. So this was the last 198 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: big task and quite honestly, it caused a lot of issue. 199 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 4: It was. 200 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: The remaining thirty five of us, you know, and he 201 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: told us it had to be under three minutes and 202 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: had X amount of marching. 203 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 7: Mark was picked to be a squality. That's a great accomplishment, 204 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 7: and it's hard to maintain that job because you screw up, 205 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 7: you get fired, and there's a lot of pressure because 206 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 7: those inmates have to listen to me. They don't have 207 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 7: to listen to peto leader. And it's very hard because 208 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 7: you know, as a good patoon leader, I don't want 209 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 7: him coming to my office every two seconds and saying, sir, 210 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 7: when you were here, this guy just did this, and 211 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 7: I want him to handle it on his own through respect. Karen, 212 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 7: it's kind of an honor to be picked for one 213 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 7: No different than in the military when we picked squad 214 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 7: leaders and tune guides. 215 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: So we had a couple of people that volunteered. Jesse 216 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: was one of the guys. He said, I'll take the 217 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: head choreographer, and we put together a couple different steps 218 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: and weaves and everything else. We had frustration putting it together. 219 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: But you wanted to make it fancy. You wanted to 220 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: kind of show off a little bit. I remember we 221 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: did like this criss cross marching and then one went 222 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: into like a big ass and then we came back 223 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: in the four rows. I was a squad leader, Glenn 224 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: Jesse and Fleischmann was the other guy. And then everybody 225 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: on our squad was behind us four rows and it 226 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: was tough to put this together. Jesse was the guy 227 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: that I saw on Facebook that he died like seven 228 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: months ago. It's a shame. I remember he had a 229 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: disabled younger brother. He spoke a lot about his brother. 230 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: It's a shame that he's no longer with us. But 231 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: he was the guy that took the ball and he 232 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: put this whole choreographed thing together. I remember doing it 233 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: and practicing it, and like we felt good about it, 234 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: and we showed them, you know, what do you think 235 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: drill and shuck. 236 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 4: I don't like it at all. I don't like it roll. 237 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: He critiqued us. He gave us a good heads up 238 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: on it. But this was only one thing we did 239 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: on Saturday. But this was really the last task because 240 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: there was a lot of pickering and a lot of 241 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: animosity and a lot of no, we're not doing it 242 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: that way, that's stupid. What about this way? Why can't 243 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: we do it this way? It was almost like, all right, 244 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: this is the last task, that maybe we might lose 245 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: one person through this. It was getting that heated. People 246 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: were throwing shit on the ground. I don't want to 247 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: do it. What do you mean you have to do it? 248 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: But we ultimately figured it out. That was really the 249 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: only major change we had to prepare for that because 250 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: that was something we had to put on and perform 251 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: in front of our peers. I definitely think we finally 252 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: got good at the routine. 253 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: All the inmates continued pt marching and work details, and 254 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 2: the purpose of the drill instructors was clear. 255 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 7: We had to take care of the grounds, so we 256 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 7: had inmates that cut the grass and manicured along inside facility. 257 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 7: Then we had a crew of inmates that went outside 258 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 7: the facility, so those are all crews of twelve. Then 259 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 7: we also had vocational shops though, where we talked to 260 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 7: the inmates. So if they had their ged they didn't 261 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 7: fit on a work squad, they weren't outside. Clear, because 262 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 7: not every inmate was cleared to all the side of 263 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 7: the spans, they had to go to a vocational shop. 264 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 7: They might go go to floor covering, horticulture, We had masonry. 265 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 7: At one time, we had electrical So there's various things 266 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 7: that these guys are doing during the day to brady 267 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 7: them for the next stuff in their life. Because I 268 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 7: tell these kids all the time, we'd do goals training 269 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 7: with them, and I'd said, laid on your goals. These 270 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 7: guys are about to get out, and they're what's going 271 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 7: to make or break the program. If they go out 272 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 7: and violate again, it puts a bad shadow on our program, 273 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 7: like why is this kid out early doing this type 274 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 7: of behavior still, So we want to make sure they're ready. 275 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 7: So I'd say in goal cap in her fifth and 276 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 7: sixth month, when you say zero to it is zero 277 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 7: tis by this time the inmates that squeaked along or 278 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 7: barely made it. If he still isn't figuring it out, 279 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 7: he's done. You know, we evail him out superten's committee. 280 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 7: He gets in front of a committee and he gets 281 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 7: voted out or recycled. He can give them another chance, 282 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 7: but we can't take the chance to let these guys 283 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 7: home to go violate and give the program a black guy. 284 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 7: They have to be ready to go home. 285 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: We're getting to the finish line here, and you didn't 286 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: stop until the last day. You walked up until the 287 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: last day. Whoever was going to school went up until 288 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: the last day. We did confrontation and all these other 289 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: routines right to the last day. We did drug an 290 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: alcohol counseling to the last day. 291 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: And the drill instructors were not the only ones preparing 292 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: the inmates for life on the other side of those 293 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: barbed wire fences. Counselor Rose had a big impact on 294 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: them as well. 295 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: She was very good, shot a lot of patience, because, 296 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: let's face it, you have a room full of people 297 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: doing drugs, selling drugs, doing alcohol, and you're basically teaching 298 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: a class to tell them why they shouldn't. She did 299 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: kind of make you feel like a regular person. 300 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 4: You know. 301 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: It wasn't like a drill instructor in your face, treating 302 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: you like you're an inmate. She actually spoke to you 303 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: as you were a human being and she wanted to 304 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: help you. We watched a lot of videos of what 305 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: you could turn out to be. There was a lot 306 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: of visuals, if I remember that, were trying to convince you, 307 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: if you can get through six months, why can't you 308 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: get through seven eight? Nine ten, and it was just 309 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: it was a good class. Did it really help me personally? Ultimately, 310 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: I have to say yes, it did. 311 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 7: The program does work. I tell my guys this all 312 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 7: the time. Hey, at graduation day, I said, if I 313 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 7: didn't teach you anything, if you really haven't figured out 314 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 7: and you go to rob that seven to eleven, at 315 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 7: least don't shoot the guy behind the counter this time, 316 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 7: because I taught your respect for others. If you've learned 317 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 7: that I've accomplished something. I had told him that straight up, Like, 318 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 7: if you're going to come back and do something stupid, 319 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 7: at least respect other people. So did I think I 320 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 7: was they were all gonna be the best and do 321 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 7: the greatest. No. But I got a phone call from 322 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 7: the inmate in the crackhouse. Back when we first opened 323 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 7: to jail, they used to patch calls in for the 324 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 7: switchboard of the old phone system in inmates who call 325 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 7: for the drill structor, and they were told they could 326 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 7: do this. So I got to call them this kids 327 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 7: in the crackhouse, He says, Sarah, I don't know what 328 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 7: to do. I'm about to violate. I'm at wits end. 329 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 7: I said, it's easy, he said, what do you mean, sir, 330 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 7: It's not easy. I said, yeah, it is. Turn around, 331 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 7: is it? Do you see a door? You turn around? 332 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 7: I said, about face. I gave him commands. I said, 333 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 7: is there a door there? I said, walk out it. 334 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 7: I said, they call me back, and they did. I said, 335 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 7: was that easy? It's all about choices and decisions. So 336 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 7: I said, now start building from there. 337 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 6: And d I. 338 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: Clark tried to leave the inmates with the feeling that 339 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: all the drill instructors were still present even when they 340 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: walked out the doors to go home. 341 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 7: The drill structors always watch it. And I told them, 342 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 7: everything you guys are doing we've seen. We've been doing 343 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 7: this for years. We've seen it all. You're making the 344 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 7: same mistakes. You know, you've got to be better than this. 345 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 7: The true side of discipline is you do the right 346 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 7: thing when no one's watching. It's another thing I would 347 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 7: teach them all the time. If I'm inside the scribe 348 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 7: a your outside on a smow freaking true tested discipline 349 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 7: is you're not talking even though I'm peeking out the window. 350 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 7: Or I got another inmates spying from me. 351 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 2: With graduation days so close, marking the other inmates were 352 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: able to get some final thoughts off their chests, to. 353 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: Mark down the days, like say you had three days 354 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: to go, two nights left. There was a lot of 355 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: hey man, I'm sorry if I ever caused a problem 356 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: throughout the process. And I used to say I never 357 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: wanted to be friends with them, or I never wanted 358 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: to get to know them. I said, I wanted to 359 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: get away from them. They're not who I am. But 360 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I was in there 361 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: with them. I was one of those guys, so ultimately 362 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: I was one of them. 363 00:17:58,920 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 4: It was the last night. 364 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: There was a lot of smiling, there was a lot 365 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: of bonding. I couldn't wait to get out of there. 366 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to wake up in the morning. Everybody 367 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: knew what the what the schedules, and at that point, 368 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: drill instructor Eggleston was like, all right, say here's what's 369 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: going to happen tomorrow. 370 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 4: You never knew you never knew what the next day 371 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 4: was going to be. For six months. 372 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: You kind of had an idea you were going to 373 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: do your regular pt and you knew when you were 374 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: going to eat, but you don't know what your job 375 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: assignment for the day was or what they were actually 376 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: going to have you do, and he said, you guys 377 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: are going home tomorrow if you're lucky. That's what he 378 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: told us. You are not a graduate. You're not out 379 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: of there until you're out of there. 380 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 7: Talking back to staff late in the program six months, 381 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 7: if you still haven't figured out that, you know, are 382 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 7: you going to go to your job and talk back 383 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 7: to your employer. If it's a major fight, that's direct 384 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 7: kickout and maybe not even offered recycle. There's different levels 385 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 7: of severity, and it's really culative. We have all the 386 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 7: evails when they go in front of what we have 387 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 7: what's called the Superintends Committee, all the evails from the 388 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 7: six months, so they can see if it's a repetitive 389 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 7: behavior or if it's just something new, a one shot deal. 390 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: You know, until the minute you walk out of those doors. 391 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: He told us, don't you watch what you say. Don't 392 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: think it's the last day. You can get away with 393 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: being a wise guy or trying to say something funny 394 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: to a drill instructor. They might just be in a 395 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: bad mood and say, you know what, you're not leaving yet. 396 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: Fifty five people started. We lost people along the way 397 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: because they signed themselves out they couldn't handle it, or 398 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: they got recycled. Recycled means they started from square one. 399 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: You could be a week away from graduating. If you 400 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: fuck up, they'll put you either back to square one, 401 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: you'll start over as a brown hat, or they'll just 402 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: send you on a bus to do your full time. 403 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 4: It's a zero tolerance. 404 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,959 Speaker 1: During the Gold Hut, we lost two, so we were 405 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: up thirty five going into graduation. 406 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 2: Anticipation filled the door the evening before graduation, and inmates 407 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: went to sleep knowing there was a good chance they 408 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: would walk out. The next day, I. 409 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 4: Woke up kah the smile. 410 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: I knew my mother and father were on their way up, 411 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: or they were there ready, because they came up the 412 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: night before to stay over, you know, knowing that they 413 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: were maybe only in the parking lot waiting to come in. 414 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 7: Man, what a. 415 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 4: Feeling that was. 416 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: That was an unbelievable feeling. And I couldn't wait to 417 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: see him. Man, I couldn't wait to see him. And 418 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: I knew I was gonna, you know, have a tough 419 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: road to recovery and get back on my feet. But 420 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: I was also determined that I knew it was gonna happen. 421 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: Mark expressed the memory and emotions of graduation day during 422 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 2: one of our interviews together. 423 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: So walk me through the excuse me, sorry, take a minute. 424 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 4: Sorry, okay, okay, thank you're sorry? 425 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 7: Is this happy? Stop? 426 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: Especially like I said, I haven't ever let this out? 427 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 4: You can also you can also. 428 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: Probably put yourself right back in that spot and remember 429 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 2: absolutely taking that step out of the Yeah, facility, and 430 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: the gates are closing behind you. 431 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 4: It's a great feeling. 432 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 7: Mom and dad are there? 433 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 2: Is the graduation in the facility. 434 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 4: It's it's it's in the prison. You know. 435 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: My parents had to go through a security check and 436 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: get searched, and they were escorted down with other inmates, 437 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: family members into an auditorium where we where we did 438 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: the march and then we you know, you sit, you sit, 439 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: actually sit down in chairs like a like a high 440 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: school graduation. And they called us up one by one. 441 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: Mark Lombardo, heah, you go up. You get a piece 442 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: of paper saying that you graduated shock incarceration, you know, 443 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: Lakeview Correctional Facility in New York. 444 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 4: They did everybody. We all got a round of applause. 445 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 7: We've come in for these things on our day off 446 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 7: without me. I came down from Fort Drum, I had 447 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 7: uh I was getting ready to go to Iraq. I 448 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 7: came in full dress blues and maybe the guest speaker 449 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 7: for the graduation. The driller structures actually give awards. We 450 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 7: actually have to get up and give speeches. The superintendent talks. 451 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 7: It's a big deal for the facility. We shut workers 452 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 7: down to get as much staff back there as possible. 453 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 7: As many drill structures we close ailed out for graduation. 454 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 7: And the pride you see is the inmates march around 455 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 7: the compound after the last PT session and we're into 456 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 7: gold caps saying goodbye everybody, and then their families are there. 457 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 7: And for the families, this is the first time they've 458 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 7: seen their son, loved going or whatever graduate from something. 459 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 7: But the families that had come and sit there crying 460 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 7: their eyeballs out. In the beginning, I thought, how crazy 461 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 7: we're doing the graduation from jail. But after doing a 462 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 7: few of them, yeah, it made sense. You know, now 463 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 7: they know they've accomplished something, so let's see where it 464 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 7: goes from here. But the pride all unbelievable. 465 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: We had to put on and perform the d n 466 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: C drill and ceremony the last time you do it, 467 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: and your famili's are there. 468 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 4: They're allowed in the prison. They come and wash the ceremony. 469 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: My mother was there, my stepfather, and my sister, and 470 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: of course some relatives from some of the other guys. 471 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 4: And you could see a. 472 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: Lot of emotion on their face too, a lot of emotion, happiness, sadness. 473 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: Every time, every other platoon sits and watches you in 474 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: march in the middle. All the family relatives are there, 475 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: all the staff members, every single employee of the entire prison, 476 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: quite honestly comes and watches you, and you do your 477 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: whole thing. 478 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: After the formalities of the graduation ceremony, Mark had to 479 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 2: wait a little longer as the prison processed his release. 480 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: The relatives were all escorted outside the prison and then 481 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: we were escorted up to the front where we had 482 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: to do end processing, get a pass showing the release 483 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: that we were officially released that date. It was probably 484 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: about an hour and a half of processing until you 485 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: actually walk out. You go into the main entrance to 486 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: the prison and there's some paperwork we had to sign. 487 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 1: You have to get your check right, so anything that 488 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: may have been left in commissary for you. 489 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 4: They give you a check. 490 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: I think I had like sixteen dollars or something and 491 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: eighty two cents as the only money I had. Then 492 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: the last thing they do is they give you information 493 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: for purparol and who you have to contact within twenty 494 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: four hours you have to contact and go sin. 495 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 2: It had been almost a year since Mark had been 496 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 2: a freeman, since he'd walked, eaten, showered, or slept alone. 497 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 2: It had been more than six hard months inside shock incarceration. 498 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: And the minute they opened the door, that good luck 499 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: and I hope we don't. 500 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 4: See you again. 501 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 5: I remember going through in new officer Gerhard. He was 502 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 5: a reception I had him for like three months. He 503 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 5: was a rost point grad and I walked through. A tough, 504 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 5: tough guy. I could tell you a hundred stories about him. 505 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 5: And I walked through and he just gave me. 506 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 7: That a little week. 507 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 6: I was like, holy shit, this is amazing. What a feeling. 508 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: It was August eighth. It was beautiful weather, and I'll 509 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: never forget that feeling. I'll never forget it. Just walking out, 510 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: my mother, stepfather, and sister were about fifty yards in 511 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: front of. 512 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 8: Me, and I said, I don't see him. I don't 513 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 8: see him, and Vicky said, there he is. And I 514 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 8: went where because they all look the same. 515 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 6: You know. 516 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: I remembers kneeling right down to the ground, right down 517 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: to the ground in front of those prison doors. 518 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 4: I kissed the ground. I got up and then I 519 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 4: just ran over and I'm looking. 520 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 6: And I'm looking for Mark. 521 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 8: He comes out, Mik just takes his hands and puts 522 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 8: him in the air like Rocky, you know. And I screamed, Mark, 523 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 8: just like in the movies. I ran up, put my 524 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 8: arms around in my legs. I'm like, I couldn't believe. 525 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 8: He goes, Mom, I get me the fuck. 526 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 6: Out of here. 527 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 8: I gave one last spit on the ground and I said, 528 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 8: come on. 529 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: I gave my mom probably the biggest hug I've ever 530 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: given her, followed by my stepfather and my sister and 531 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: we cried. 532 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 4: I'm getting emotionally. 533 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry because I tell you what yet, I'll never 534 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: go through anything like that again, I hope. And when 535 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: you sit back and reflect on it, and I tried 536 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: to paint a picture, it was crazy fucking experience. It 537 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: was a crazy experience. There was a lot of things 538 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: that kept me strong through the process. Mostly it was 539 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: my niece, my niece at the time, it was probably 540 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: five or six, and she's the sweetest little thing in 541 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: the world. I was allowed six pictures on my locker. 542 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: I had a picture of my grandfather and my mother, 543 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: my father, a large one with multiple family members in it, 544 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: and I had a picture of her. 545 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 4: You know. 546 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: That made me believe that I could get through this. 547 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: There was nothing stopping me. It was to be able 548 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: to hug my mother and father and be able to 549 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: have a family dinner and a holiday. They were definitely 550 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: the driving force and the motivation and the energy that 551 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: made me believe that there was no way in hell 552 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: anything was stopping me from not graduating this program. 553 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,479 Speaker 2: More than six months of physical military type training definitely 554 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: had an effect on Mark, and the difference between his 555 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 2: appearance before he entered the program and after he got 556 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 2: out was extreme. 557 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: I came out looking like a sick child. I needed 558 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: a cheeseburger. My clothes didn't fit me. When your relatives 559 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: come to get you, they'd bring one outfit for you, 560 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: So he had a change. My mother brought me a 561 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: pair of khaki shorts and a black T shirt. 562 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 4: It was amazing. 563 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: That I actually wore those clothes because don't forget, I 564 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: lost fifty eight pounds. We got in the car and 565 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: then around the corner was a bank. You can get 566 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: your check cash. So I went in there and I 567 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: cashed it was like sixteen dollars a change. 568 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 4: And my mother even asked me, you want me to 569 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 4: go in with you? And I said, no, no, that's okay, No, I'll. 570 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 7: Be right out. 571 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: And it's interesting the way the bank teller looked at you. 572 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: She knew what the check was for, so there was 573 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: like an uneasy feeling, like almost a nervous feeling on 574 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: their end. 575 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 4: Oh who is this guy? What did he do? Oh? 576 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: This guy just got out of prison. And again, what 577 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: a horrible way for somebody to feel about you. I 578 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: really picked up on that. I picked up on it immediately, 579 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: like she was just hesitant to like even engage in 580 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: a conversation with me, or just get me out of 581 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: the bank as quickly as possible. But that's the perception, 582 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how certain people look at people. 583 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 4: So she gave mere money. 584 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: I walked out, and my mother was standing right outside 585 00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: the front door. 586 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 8: So I stopped him and I said, I have some 587 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 8: bad news. 588 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: And I said, what's up now? She smokes, so I said, oh, 589 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: you're having a cigarette. She said no, I want to 590 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: tell you something and she said. 591 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 4: Kathy died. 592 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 7: He just fell to his knees. 593 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 6: He cried like a baby. 594 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 4: And I mean just everything gone. 595 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 7: You know. 596 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: It was like what I had the biggest high in 597 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: my life a half hour ago walking out of that place, 598 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: and then it was just like. 599 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 7: Felt like I got hit with a bat. 600 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 4: Shock. 601 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 9: Incarceration is a joint production from iHeartRadio and Doghouse Pictures, 602 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 9: produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Mark Lombardo, 603 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 9: Tommy James, Noel Brown, and Jeff Keating. Written by Jim Roberts, 604 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 9: Tommy James, Chris Regazzo and Jeff Keating. Story edit by 605 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 9: Jim Roberts, Edit mix and sound design by Lane Krauss. 606 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 7: From Herd's Creek Productions. 607 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 9: Music composed by Diamond Street Productions, accompanied by Tyler Greenwell, 608 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 9: Danny Wattanas, Sean Thompson and Spencer Garne. Special thanks to 609 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 9: Trinity Investigative Group and Mark Lombardo's family and friends who 610 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 9: contributed to the podcast.