1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry. 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: So this is stuff you should know. This is gonna 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: be a good one. This is a grabstor joint. Did 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: you want to talk about super first? Are you kidding? Yeah? 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: I was kidding. Oh, I thought you were serious. Yeah, 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: it was bad soup, but I meant that bad. Yeah, 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: I mean, right before we started recording, like this is 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: how how awesome things are around here, we were talking 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: about how bad your French onion soup was. How do 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: you mess up French onions? Yeah, that's what I was wondering. 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: And he said, say that, I want to talk about this, 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: and I thought you were serious. Yeah, I was kidding. Well, 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: and here we are. I was kidding. Yeah, And then 16 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: we were talking about the soup anyway, How do you 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: mess up French onion soup? It's like beef broth, salt, onions, 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: cheese bread. Yeah, they put too much in it, melted 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: in the crock pot. Yes, yes, this. The onions they 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: used were way too sweet. I think they used like 21 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: onions dipped in sugar. It was just not good. Yeah, 22 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: not good. You can tell we shouldn't call them out publicly. 23 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: That'd be pretty mean. Sure, I mean, they just don't 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: know what they're doing with soup. It's fine, but they're 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: a soup restaurant. There are a lot of sup restaurants. Yeah, 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: do you remember that, dumb one? I think they're out 27 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: of business. Now, let us surprise you. Haven't dumb about 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: let us surprise you, buddy, soup and sell love that 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: that's out of business, right, Yeah, there's something called sweet 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: Tomatoes that's basically the I think I've heard of that. Yep. Hey, 31 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: I like a good soup and salad joint. Yeah, so 32 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: what was wrong with let us surprise you? I don't know. 33 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: I just I don't like cute see names unless it's 34 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: on The Simpsons. And I think the teas were made 35 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: of carrots. Yeah for sure. Well that leads us right 36 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: into Navajo code talkers. Exactly. Quite well, we should say 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: right out of the gate that, um, we're well, like 38 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: you just said, we're talking about Navajo code talkers. There 39 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: were plenty of other code talkers from other Native American tribes. 40 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: This episode is mostly about the Navajo code talkers because 41 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: there were so many of them and so much is 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: known about the codes that they made. But we'll also 43 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: mention other tribes as well, Yes, and straight up respect 44 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: to all of them. It always kind of stinks when 45 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: one thing gets all the glory when there were many 46 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: factions of that thing. So yeah, right, But I think 47 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: that's better than just naming this episode like how code 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: talkers work, but only talking about the Navajo code talkers. 49 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: I think we covered everything right, agreed. So Um, if 50 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: you have ever seen or familiar with a movie called 51 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: wind Talkers, as have you seen it? I didn't see it, 52 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: but I did look it up today, and it is 53 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: widely regarded as not only garbage, a garbage movie, but 54 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: a real disservice to do a great to do a 55 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: movie about the Navajo code talkers, but it's really a 56 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: movie about Nick Cage, right, directed by John Woo. Yeah, 57 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: it's a violent war movie that happened to be structured 58 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: around a really interesting historical plot, right, Like, let's let's 59 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: take this really amazing story from history and and let's 60 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: morph it into a story about a white soldier. It's like, um, 61 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: dancing to Havana. Nights. Basically, Oh, it's funny, it is. Yeah, 62 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: the wind Talkers. I do I do not indorse that film. 63 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: I do not either, and neither of us have seen it. 64 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: We still don't endorse that. No, I don't. I just 65 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: need to see the reviews on that one. But the 66 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: the point of it was that there was a Native 67 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: American I don't know if he's a Nava or not 68 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: um in that movie because again haven't seen it, but 69 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: UM who was who was charged with speaking his native 70 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: tongue to someone else on the other end of the 71 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: line at the front lines of battle in the Pacific 72 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: Theater during World War two, Um to transmit messages in code, 73 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: in an unbreakable code, and that actually happened, Like that 74 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: part of the story happened, and it was true that 75 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: there were in World War Two Native Americans in large 76 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: part Navajo who were speaking to one another in Navajo, 77 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: like on Guadalcanal, or um in the Marianas or the 78 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: Marshall Islands or Okinawa, who were there at all of 79 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: these major massive battles in the Pacific Theater between the 80 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: United States and Japan. UM that actually eventually led to 81 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: this island hopping process led to them the atomic bombs 82 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: being dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki from the Mariannas. Yeah, 83 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: code so uh well complex to our dumb ears. To 84 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: the Navajoo, they were just like, this is just our language. True, 85 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: but even if you're a linguist, you're like, this is 86 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: extraordinarily difficult language. Yeah, but so complex that UM it 87 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: confounded the Japanese, who were really good at busting codes, 88 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: and they were like, I don't know what's going on here. 89 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: You're right, yeah, this is I've never heard anything like this, 90 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: which was a huge reversal because prior to the institution 91 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: of um Navajo code talkers and I think nineteen forty two, 92 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: like late nineteen forty two, UM, the Japanese had our 93 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: goat with our coded transmissions. Because for the for the 94 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: number one, there were a number of Japanese people who 95 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: had been educated in the US in between World War 96 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: One world War two UM and had gone back to 97 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: Japan prior to World War two, and they were totally 98 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: fluent in English, so they could speak English like up down, 99 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: in sideways. Plus on top of that, they were really 100 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: good at breaking our coats, so they knew basically everything 101 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: we were going to do every step of the way. 102 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: So the Navajo code talkers coming into the Pacific theater, 103 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: was it reversed our fortunes? There's there's it's not an 104 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: overstatement to say that they basically helped the US take 105 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: the Pacific from Japan, not single handedly, but through their coat. 106 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. All right, So let's talk about the 107 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: Navajo UH in general. To begin with Native American tribe 108 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: UM that inhabited the American southeast or what you know 109 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: now we know it as an American Southwest. Back then 110 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: it was known as the South. Yeah, exactly. And you're like, 111 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: what this isn't the coast American Southwest? I wish everyone 112 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: could see because Josh literally just pointed in the other direction. 113 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: I wonder if you pointed, wet Uh you pointed that way? 114 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: Is that west? I don't even know. Hold on, now, 115 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: that's that's north. Okay, the American South, the American South North? Uh. 116 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: They the original um people's were they believed from Asia? 117 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: Maybe ironically in the end, when you see how the 118 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: story goes, UH and settled in the southwest round fourteen 119 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: hundred ce UM in the sixteen hundreds, UH, A lot 120 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: of things changed the next few hundred years were uh, 121 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: they were warring with the Spanish, they were warring with 122 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: other Native American tribes. And then that was all kind 123 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: of leading up to the eighteen hundreds when the United 124 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: States popped up and said, hey, um, here's what we're 125 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: gonna do. We're going to wreck your economy. We're going 126 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: to destroy your crops and livestock and poison your wells 127 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: and kill all your buffalo and put you on reservations 128 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: and march you, um, march you to New Mexico, where 129 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: your new home will be and what will be known 130 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: as the Long Walk. Yeah. It was basically their their 131 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: trail of tears. Yeah, exactly. It was just right out 132 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: of the Westward Expansion playbook. Um. And so the Navajo 133 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: found themselves. When was that the mid it was? I think, yeah, 134 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: And like why that, I mean, it's important for a 135 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: lot of reasons. But um, the men who ended up 136 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: being the Navajo code talkers in World War Two, their 137 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: grandparents were these people that were forced to go on 138 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: the Long Walk. Yes, and it wasn't you know, hundreds 139 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: and hundreds of years later, like direct descendants that ended 140 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: up fighting for the United States. Yes, and this is 141 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: not like, hey, do you mind moving over here? It was. 142 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: It was very much like the Trail of Tears. It 143 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: was movement three hundred miles to a reservation against their will. Um, 144 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: at the barrel of a gun. Yeah, like I don't 145 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: want to go okay, I'll shoot you, yes, exactly. There 146 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: were reports of UM, of the injured, of the tired, 147 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: people who fell behind were just shot by the U. S. Infantry. Um. 148 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: There was at least one family that reported that their 149 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: pregnant daughter was UM. They were forced away from her. 150 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: She was kept behind and they heard her being shot 151 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: as well. It was. It was. It was just a 152 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 1: violation and atrocity done to the Navajo like get was 153 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: done to so many other Native American groups. And by 154 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, like basically eighteen fifty seven on the 155 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: Navajo lived exclusively on reservations in the in the Southwest. Yeah. 156 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: And starting in about the eighteen seventies, the U. S. 157 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: Government said, here's what we're gonna do. Um, you have 158 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: to assimilate into American society. We want you to forget 159 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: your culture as you knew it. You can't speak your 160 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: native language anymore. Um, We're gonna round up your kids 161 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: and send them to American boarding schools, teach them to 162 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: read and write in English only. Uh. And you're going 163 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: to be punished and for bidden from speaking your native tongue, 164 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: from singing in your native tongue. Yes, you will be 165 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: beaten if we catch you speaking Navajo to one another. 166 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: And they, like I think you just said, they would 167 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: kidnap children, take them to these schools, just like they 168 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: did with the Aboriginal tribes in Australia, UM, just like 169 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: they did with the first Americans in UM, the first 170 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: nations in Canada. And it was just not only have 171 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: we taken your land, not only have we forced you 172 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: to live in this one area that no one else 173 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: wants to live in, like we want to destroy your 174 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: culture now, like we're going after your culture. We just 175 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: don't want to obliterate you guys completely. We'll let you 176 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: live but under these these conditions, and we're not We're 177 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: gonna murder your culture. And so not only were these 178 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: code talkers the grandchildren or the grandsons of the people 179 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: who went on the Long Walk, they were the very 180 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: people who went to these Indian schools and were beaten 181 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: for speaking Navajoa. And then about nineteen forty two, the 182 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: United States military, specifically the Marine showed up and said, Hey, 183 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: we'd love for you to come speak Navajo officially for 184 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: the United States government. Would you mind doing that? Yeah, 185 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: And this was after World War One. It went on 186 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: in World War One. Actually, Um, World War two got 187 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: all the press, and the Navajo of course did more 188 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: than anyone else, Like you said, but in World War 189 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: One there were um. In nineteen eighteen, there was a 190 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: captain from the Ontywcond Infantry Regiment who heard UM two 191 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: Choctaw soldiers speaking in their native tongue and was like, Man, 192 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: we're getting hammered with the Germans and the French cracking 193 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: our codes. So I think that this language could be 194 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: of use to us because it's really complex. Germans have 195 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: no idea what what's going on with your language, and 196 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: I think we could put you to use. And so 197 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: the very first code talkers, I think, were these Choc 198 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: talk code talkers in World War One. Yeah. The well, 199 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: we were fighting with the French when we were talking 200 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: to the French, but the Germans spoke French and English 201 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: and we're using regular telephone lines in World War One, 202 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: I guess they just had them tapped. So they were 203 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: just eavesdropping and we might as well have been speaking 204 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: German for as well as they were translating these coded transmissions. 205 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden they're like, what is what 206 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: is this? We've never heard this language before ever. It's 207 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: just a couple of Choctaw guys talking to one another. 208 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: But it was for Germany an unbreakable code at least 209 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: as long as World War One was going on. Yeah, 210 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: and I don't think this early World War One code 211 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: was so much a code as like you're saying, like, 212 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: we're just gonna put a Choctaw on one end and 213 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: a Choctaw on the other end of the line, and 214 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: they'll just relay the messages that we tell them to 215 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: and their native tongue. And the Germans were like nine right. 216 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: The only word I could think of, uh holgan its 217 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: World War two rooms that would come years later. So, um, 218 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't just Choctaw members of the Choctaw tribe who 219 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 1: were code talkers in World War One. Also the Comanche 220 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: played a role. Um the Fox which is also known 221 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: as the um oh Man I had it. Have you 222 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: ever heard the Fox tribe from I believe Mississippi I 223 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: don't think so you oh, you don't. Um. There was 224 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: also the Comanche. They played a big role in some 225 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: other tribes did as well. But there's like we're talking 226 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: a handful of people in the capacity, like you were saying, 227 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: it's like, uh, just say this in your native language 228 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: to this other guy who speaks your native language and 229 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: he'll tell you know, the guy on the other end 230 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: what you just said in English. Yeah. And here's the 231 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: rub I mean there. It is rich with irony throughout 232 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: this whole story. But here's the rub in World War 233 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: One is that Native Americans weren't even granted citizenship until 234 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: so the World War One code talkers were not even 235 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: American citizens yet they were doing this. Uh, and they 236 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: were not even recognized by the United States and acknowledged 237 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: and thanked until two thousand eight, right thousand eight, ten 238 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: years ago. France even recognized them in I think, did 239 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: you say that? Okay, So France recognized them first, and 240 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: it took another twenty years before the US recognized him officially. Unbelievable, 241 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: It is unbelievable. Um. But the the the problem with 242 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: World War One is it worked, but we became friendly 243 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: with Germany in between world War One and World War Two, 244 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: and Germany said, yeah, we're going to headge our bets here. 245 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: We're going to send some people to the United States 246 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: to learn Native American languages and culture so that if 247 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: we ever go to war with the United States again, 248 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: we'll have their number. And they did. Apparently there were 249 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: plenty of well, I don't know if plenty of the 250 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: right word, but there were Germans who spoke um, Cherokee, Comanche, 251 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: so that um, so much so that the some of 252 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: the American commanders in World War two were like, we 253 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: can't use Native American language because there's Germans who know 254 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: this already. They were compromised basically between World War One 255 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: and World War Two. You wanna take a break, Oh yes, 256 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: all right, let's take a break, and we're gonna come 257 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: back and talk about the dawn of World War two. 258 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: And a man named Philip Johnston. All right, so right 259 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,239 Speaker 1: before World War two, UM, there was a training exercise 260 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: going on with UH, with soldiers from Michigan and Wisconsin. 261 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: There were Native American soldier is involved, and there was 262 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: a man UH and they were, you know, they were 263 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: testing out these coded transmissions. Are like, we didn't world 264 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: War one. Let's try it again. There was a man 265 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: there named Philip Johnston who was a white man, but 266 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: he actually grew up on a Navajo reservation. I think 267 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: he just read an article about this. Actually, Um, well, yeah, 268 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: he wasn't in the army at this time because they 269 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: brought him in like he was way too old, way 270 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: too old. But around this time I think he was 271 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: about fifty years old. Yeah, but he had the benefit 272 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: of growing up on a Navajo reservation. Considered himself a Navajo, 273 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: spoke the language following World War One and said, I 274 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: want to make a comeback, and I want to go 275 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: back and fight in World War two and start up 276 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: this crack team of Navajo code talkers. It was his idea. 277 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: And they said he went into the office of whatever 278 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: higher up general he needed to spoke some Navajo and 279 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: said this worked once, why can't it work twice? And 280 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: they was like, by George, I think you go onto something. Well, 281 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: they said, we'll give you, uh well of you a 282 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: chance to demonstrate this. So apparently in Los Angeles he 283 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: recruited four Navajo men who I guess he was friendly 284 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: with because, like you said, he considered himself Navaho. His 285 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: parents were missionaries. Um. And apparently he spoke Navajo so 286 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: well that at age nine, he served as the official 287 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: translator for a Navajo delegation that had gone to Washington, 288 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: d C. To lobby for better treatment and rights for 289 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: the Navajo nation. Which is amazing because, as you'll learn, 290 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: the not a lot of because there were other white 291 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: people who spoke Navajo that tried to be code talkers 292 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: and none of them made the cut. No, such a 293 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: hard language, right, So this guy must have just had 294 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,479 Speaker 1: an ear for it too and was raised with it. 295 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: But um, he uh, he said, we I know you 296 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: guys are trying to make a code. I've got this language. 297 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: I've got these four guys from Los Angeles with me. 298 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: Just give him a shot. And so they gave him 299 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: a shot, I think Camp Elliott, and um, they gave two. 300 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: They took the two of the four Navajo guys, broke 301 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: them into pairs, put them in separate rooms, and said, here, 302 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: say this in Navajo, say this English phrase the Eagle 303 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: Lands at midnight. Will say, all right, that old bit, 304 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: and tell your buddies and see what they say. So 305 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: they transmitted the Eagle Lands at Midnight or whatever it was. Um, 306 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: over the phone in Navajo. The guys in the other 307 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: room took it in Navajo, translated it back into English 308 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: in like a minute. And the guys at Camp Elliot 309 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: were pretty impressed by this. They said, we're going to 310 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: bring in some German and Japanese people to listen. And 311 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: they're like, did you guys get that? I have no 312 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: idea what they said nine and whatever the Japanese word 313 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: is for now? Do you know that? Uh yet yet? 314 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: It's like that sounds a lot like Russians. The Japanese 315 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: word from now they say no so infrequent. I was 316 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: about to say, you know why you don't know that 317 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: because all you say is yes right when you go 318 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: over there, Yeah, sure, I'll take more more please, They 319 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: just bang my bowl on the table. So so yeah, 320 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: they they they actually didn't do that. I'm kidding, of course, 321 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: but they said this is great, and this is the 322 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: trick was not only was it um like basically impossible 323 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: to crack, but like you're saying, it was super fast, 324 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: way faster than machine codes, right, So that's a huge 325 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: advantage that this this offered, was you're using um Navajo 326 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: speakers to send a coded message. Prior to this In 327 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: an addition to this, you would you would use basically 328 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: machines that used algorithms to encode and decode a message, 329 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: and it could take hours hours. If you're trying to 330 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: send a desperate message on a frontline battle in the 331 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: Pacific theater, you don't have hours for that thing to 332 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: get across. So the idea that you could do the 333 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: same thing in minutes in a code that you were 334 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: just positive the Japanese would have no idea what to 335 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: do with that was a huge advantage for sure. Yeah, 336 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: And like the grabs are pointed out, it was taking 337 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: a long time with the code machines that the Germans 338 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: in Japanese were cracking anyway. So this was the solution. 339 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 1: There was like no no downside to it, alright. So, 340 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: like we said, Johnston was Philip Johnson was far too 341 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: old because he was a World War One veteran. Uh, 342 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: they gave him a special commission, said you're now a 343 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: staff sergeant and the Marines again or I don't know 344 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: if use of the marine or in the army initially, 345 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: do you know, I don't know, But at any rate, 346 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: he was in the Marines this time, and they said 347 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: you're gonna lead the Code Talker project go out and recruit, 348 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: So he went to reservations, recruited young men, and between 349 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: three and four hundred of these young men became UH 350 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: code talkers. He recruited more than that, but a lot 351 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: of them failed out for very various reasons, like you know, 352 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: they still have to go through boot camp and all 353 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: that stuff, so he still have to be a sold 354 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: or on top of it. Although it was a kind 355 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: of a truncated version of boot camp because they had 356 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: to get them in there quick. They needed them so badly. 357 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: They're like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're fine. Yeah, we 358 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: need to take you to code school basically. Yeah. But 359 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: the whole thing started with UM thirty. They originally recruited 360 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: thirty Navajo speakers. One of them dropped out, so there 361 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: were twenty nine original Navajo code talkers and they were 362 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: put to work initially creating the code. Because very importantly, 363 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: the Navajo code talkers not only spoke to one another 364 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: in Navajo, which was incomprehensible to basically anybody living it 365 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: listening to it who didn't speak it, UM, they would 366 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: also use a code. They would use code words in Navajo. 367 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: So what they created was a code within a code, 368 00:21:54,320 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: and it was as unbreakable as as any any codes 369 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: ever been come up that anyone's ever come up with. 370 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: I think we should you and I can't speak navajo. Uh, 371 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm I'm rusty. I think we should play 372 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: just a little bit of navajo, all right, and then 373 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: I'll translate lying Kai a kid joggi hanadia lago k 374 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: nazad leko a certain jolago nadia and yeah, opens is 375 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: so what you just heard in navajo was um. This 376 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: is from the parable of the prodigal son from the 377 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: movie Wind Talkers. What you just heard was not long 378 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: after that, the younger son got together all he had 379 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: set off for a distant country and they're squandered his 380 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: wealth in wild living, something everybody does from time to time. 381 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,239 Speaker 1: But that was that was what you just heard in navajo. Um. 382 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: And it's it's so foreign sounding um for a reason, 383 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: like it's a really difficult language in that like the 384 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: same vowel can have four different types of intonation and 385 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: four different meanings. So one word can have four different 386 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: meanings based on the whether you know, you go up 387 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: or you speak through your nose or whatever. But you're 388 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: saying the same word, you're just intoning it differently, and 389 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: that just changes the meaning dramatically. That was one reason 390 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: why it was so impenetrable. Yeah, And like you said, 391 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: they they memorized five code words, three different versions of 392 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: the alphabet, and went to war. I mean I used 393 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: the word irony. I don't mean that's that's sort of 394 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: undersells it what was going on and why these men would, 395 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: um would sign up for something like this, and and 396 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: Ed points out like you can't get into the head 397 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: of them or explain every person's motivation because it was 398 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: all different. But um, through interviews, you know what what 399 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: sort of stood out was that they still even though 400 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: that the United States had stomped them down into near oblivion, 401 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: they still had a tie to that land and that 402 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: was their land. And regardless of what had gone on 403 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: in the past, Um, the Germans and the Japanese were 404 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: uh were invaders, that they were a threat to their 405 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: holy land. They were still a common enemy between the 406 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: United States and the Navajo. Yeah, I mean, it's just 407 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: just so much about their people that they could just 408 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: put all the other stuff aside, and the genocide and 409 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: the long walk and the trail of tears and say, well, 410 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: this this is still my land even though I'm on 411 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: a reservation, and I don't I want to help protect it. Amazing. Yes, 412 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: some of them were joined up because there, um, they 413 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: subscribed to the Navajo warrior culture, and the Navajo definitely 414 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: had their own warrior warrior culture, although that wasn't like 415 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: necessarily the central focus of their ulture. Others were like, 416 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: oh man, you're gonna get me off of this reservation 417 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go travel the world. I've never been 418 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: on a bus before. Let's go. Um. Someone were like, 419 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: I like this, g I Bill you're talking about. Um. 420 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: Others were drafted, didn't want to go, but they were 421 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: still drafted and they went. So they were just like 422 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: to to paint it any other way is to make it, 423 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: like to give it the wind talker treatment. That's not 424 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: the stuff you should know. Way, there were as many 425 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: different people. I think there were four hundred and twenty 426 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: one Navajo code talkers who ended up serving in World 427 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: War Two. I'm sure there were four hundred and twenty 428 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: one different reasons for why they went. That's just the 429 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: way it is there. They're people, Yeah, and we're talking 430 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: about people here dollar short day late. So let's talk 431 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: a little bit about this code within a code. Um 432 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: here here's one example. So troops moving forward to the 433 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: late is what the grab stirt came up with. And 434 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: they wouldn't just get on the horn with their Navajo 435 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: uh counterpart on the other end and say troops moving 436 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: forward to the lake in Navajo. They would substitute in 437 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: different words. Sometimes they would spell out some words one 438 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: letter at a time, with that letter being represented by 439 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: a word, like the first letter in the word that 440 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: they say. And it was the I mean, there were 441 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: there were rules for the code, but the person on 442 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: the other end, they were so in sync with one 443 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: another that they didn't necessarily look at a chart and say, well, 444 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: this is means this and this means this. They were 445 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: just able to converse rather organically within this code within 446 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: the code, right, and they all knew that that code 447 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: that was like this means this and this means this. Yeah. 448 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: But yeah, from from from the research, it seems like 449 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: they were able to shift and like you said, make 450 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: it organic on the fly, and they knew what one 451 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: another was saying kind of throughout the playbook a little bit, 452 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: I imagine in certain circumstances. Uh, and I'm sure the 453 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: American um, you know, the generals and the people in 454 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: charge were just like, just do it, man, just do 455 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: your thing, or they were like, I have no idea 456 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: what you just said. They had no idea. They threw 457 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: out the playbook a lot of times. They had to 458 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: do that because there weren't equivalents of certain words, like 459 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have words for bombardment and and shell casing 460 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: and things like that, because they didn't have those things 461 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: in their culture, so they had to make up things 462 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: that they would be able to understand. Both ways, well, 463 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: they were also so there was an an alphabet, right, 464 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: so every three alphabets three Yes, that's right. So there 465 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: were three different words for every letter of the alphabet. 466 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: It's amazing, okay, UM, But there's something that is really 467 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: easy to look past that we really have to to think. 468 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,719 Speaker 1: This is one of the reasons why this is so unbreakable. 469 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: If if you UM wanted to use the letter I, 470 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: well you would say the Navajo word for ice, okay, 471 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: But the Navajo word for ice doesn't have that It 472 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: doesn't begin with the letter I. They probably didn't have 473 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: a word for ice though, But that's funny people, well 474 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: know they The weird thing is is that they did 475 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: they did. Yes, they have ice. It was their most 476 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: closely related to a Native Alaskan tongue. Why they think 477 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: it's like evidence, it's linguistic evidence. They came across the 478 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: bearing land bridge. Um. So yeah, they also have a 479 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: word for shark, which is like, that doesn't make any 480 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: sense either if they they're they're from Arizona, basically in 481 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,719 Speaker 1: New Mexico. That's what I thought. Yeah, they're like Chevy Chase, um. 482 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: But they but they have like a lot of They 483 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: have one for salmon, copperhead salmon, and that's you know 484 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: a lot of those in New Mexico. Yeah, it is delicious. 485 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: But the point is is the Navajo word um for 486 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: ice doesn't necessarily begin with ice. So even if you 487 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: knew Navajo, you wouldn't necessary really know that this is 488 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: the word for the letter I. And then to confound 489 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: it even more if there's three different words for the 490 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: letter I. Even if you're spelling like, um, well, what's 491 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: the word with multiple eyes? Hurry up and give me 492 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: one quick? Uh elicit Yes, okay, if you're spelling illicit 493 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: out you could use two different words for I, and 494 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: that cuts down on letter or in this case, code 495 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: word repetition, which is one of the easiest ways to 496 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: break a code. Look for repetitions and pair those up 497 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: with the letters that are used most frequently in English. 498 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: So if you're using three different code words for a 499 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: single letter, you can mix it up while you're spelling 500 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: it out, makes it even more impenetrable, Like this is 501 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: just such a gorgeous code. Yeah, they used um imagery 502 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: a lot of times, which is makes it kind of 503 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: strangely lyrical, like a um, a die bomber was a 504 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: chicken hawk, a submarine was an iron fish. Uh. And 505 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: then they also use you know, you heard a Cockney 506 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: rhyming slang um, which is she's. We could do a 507 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: podcast on that, but that'd be kind of cool. Um. 508 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: I won't even get into that. But it makes basically 509 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: make compound words in an English sound like a word 510 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: uh in the message. So um. The examples that the 511 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: grabster got was like the words secured. They would say. 512 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: The Navajo words for sheep cured or dispatch became dog 513 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: is patch in Navajo though, But so even if you 514 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: knew Navajo and you heard dog is patch. You wouldn't 515 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: know that that meant dispatch, right, And if you didn't 516 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: know Navajo, you wouldn't be able to hear and be like, oh, 517 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: that rhymes with dispatched. I'll bet that's what they said. 518 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like anything you've ever heard before in 519 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: your life. Yeah. And like you said, they would. They 520 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: were so familiar with it and comfortable with it that 521 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: they would switch it up on the fly. Uh. And 522 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: and you know, again, technically they had um they would 523 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: do something to alert the person that was like a 524 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: system in place to say like now we're going to 525 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: use this version, but they were they didn't even need 526 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: to do that really, right, That just seemed like a formality. 527 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: It sounds like, Yeah. And I think one of the 528 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: reasons why they were so able to shift like that, um, 529 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: because these these guys who were raised in the Indian schools, 530 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: they had to speak to one another Navajo like surreptitiously. 531 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: So they had to be able to shift on the fly, 532 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: not just between like um nuance and Navajo, which is 533 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: a very nuanced language to begin with, but also between 534 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: Navajo and English depending on who is coming their way. Um. 535 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: So there was a a I think it's my impression 536 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: that from their the treatment in Indian school, UM, it 537 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: would have made it easier for them to understand what 538 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: somebody was saying when they broke the rules of the 539 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: language really quickly. Yeah, they'd be able to follow. And then, Chuck, 540 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: there's one other thing that made this code even more beautiful. 541 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: It wasn't written down in There was no book, no document, 542 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: no text that you could get and teach yourself Navajo. 543 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: You couldn't get it. And like you said, even some 544 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: like white kids that were raised out on trading posts 545 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: and spoke Navaho their whole life, they washed out of 546 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: the code talker program. They had basically a success rate 547 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: non Navajo, UM had a success rate basically zero in 548 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: the code talker program for Navajo code. It was just 549 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: that hard and that nuanced. Amazing. Alright, let's take another break. Yeah, 550 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm pretty I'm pretty jazzed up here. Yes, all right, 551 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: and we'll come back and talk about how this how 552 00:32:47,080 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: this really affected the war right after this alright, So, 553 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: like we said, at this point in the war, when 554 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: they were brought in uh, the Navajo code talkers, it 555 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: was the fighting in Europe was dwindling and the Pacific 556 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: Theater is where things were really happening. And so the 557 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: first action for the actual Navajo code talkers were at Guadalcanal. 558 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: And I hope we didn't paint a picture that they're 559 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,479 Speaker 1: sitting in offices, talking to one another in an air 560 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: conditioned office on telephones and just sending orders to like 561 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: go bomb this place on Saturday. Uh. A lot of 562 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: times these men are on the front lines and relaying 563 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: um positions and uh, what's what it's like on the 564 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: ground and what's going on. It wasn't just directives to 565 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: go do this. Uh. They were relaying important information like 566 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: live in the moment on the front lines. And to 567 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: add to this, there was confusion a lot of times, 568 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: even among American soldiers. Like to an American soldier fifty 569 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: feet away, a Navajo code talker might look like a Japanese. Uh. Person, 570 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: were these like the very dumbest soldiers of all? I 571 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: don't know, man, I mean it's on record that there 572 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: was friendly fire because of this, So so they were 573 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: actually fired on. I saw that, like they had like 574 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: guns pointed at them at some point and would be 575 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: like marched over to be interrogated. It was such that 576 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: they felt like they needed to assign them personal guards, 577 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: which was freaking Nick Cage. And that's what that movie 578 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: was about, is that he was a white soldier assigned 579 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: to guard one of the Navajo cold code talkers because 580 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: they were being mistaken for Japanese soldiers, right, but he 581 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: was also secretly ordered to kill that code talkers then 582 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: let them fall into the hands of the Japanese. Yeah. 583 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's a thing or if that was 584 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: wholly created for that movie. I don't know, like it's 585 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 1: a I don't know. I could see it go both ways. Yeah, 586 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: And I don't how smart the soldiers were, uh and 587 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: and confusing. I don't think, right, I don't think it 588 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: happened very often. And I think all it has to 589 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: happen is two or three times and all of a 590 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: sudden that's like part of the legend, you know. Um, 591 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: But it did happen, I mean, like it was. It 592 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 1: happened from time time. There was a guy named um, 593 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: I think George McCabe who was a Navajo code talker 594 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: who was taken prisoner by a fellow American UM because 595 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: he was standing in a chow line on the beach 596 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: at Guadalcanal, waiting to get food, and the guy was like, 597 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: you look Japanese. That's exactly what he did, pointed a 598 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: gun at him and said you're coming with me, and 599 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was like, uh, sorry, but no, William McCabe, 600 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, um, but that was that's Yeah. If you 601 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: look at a picture of a Navajo code talker, you 602 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: look at a picture of a Japanese person, I don't 603 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: see the resemblance. You should have been on the front lines, 604 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: my friend. I would have been like to dude, what 605 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: are you doing. Yeah. The language itself, and again this 606 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: is kind of funny because the language sounds nothing like Japanese, 607 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: but sometimes US radio operators would jam the frequency. I guess. 608 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean the grabs are said because they mistook it 609 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: for Japanese. I imagine they just heard a foreign language 610 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: and just jammed it. Um. I don't know if they 611 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: necessarily thought it sounded like Japanese sounds sure, Yeah, maybe 612 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: they had no idea what Japanese or Navajo even sounded like, 613 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: and was just like it ain't English. Maybe they were 614 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,439 Speaker 1: under orders for like, yeah, if it's not an English jam, yeah, 615 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: possibly could see that. So these like we said the 616 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: speed was one of the real keys, and just how 617 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: quickly they could get these messages delivered. Uh, and it 618 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: allowed them to UH. Here's a great here's a great 619 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,959 Speaker 1: quote from Philip Johnson, who started the program. He said, 620 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 1: during the first forty eight hours and UH visit Eo Jima. 621 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: He said, while we were landing in consolid our short positions, 622 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: I had six Navajo radio nets operating around the clock. 623 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: And that period alone, they sent and received more than 624 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: eight hundred messages without an error in forty eight hours. 625 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: Eight hundred messages, no mistakes, no mistakes. That's amazing. And 626 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: they're relaying these messages again in minutes and each of 627 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: them would have taken hours to decode without the Navajo 628 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: code talkers. There was another quote from a guy named 629 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: Major Howard Conner who was on Iwo Jima as well 630 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: in the Signal Corps, and he said, paraphrasing here that 631 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: the Marines would not have taken Ewo Jima had it 632 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: not been for the Navajo code talkers. The entire operation 633 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: Yvo GiMA, you know, the very famous like flag raising statue, 634 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: Zevo GiMA um basically a turning point in the Pacific 635 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: that the entire operation was done in Navajo. That was 636 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: what was spoken over the radios for the entire operation. 637 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: It's amazing there really is. I mean, like if you 638 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: think about how many American lives were saved by that, 639 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: that's I mean, it was just such a direct contribution 640 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: to the war. Yeah, um, he would GiMA. That was huge. Yeah, 641 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: I mean that's all you can say. Yeah, this this 642 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: deserves its own movie treatment, like sort of like hidden figures, 643 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 1: like these minority voices who really had this huge impact 644 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: that never got their due. And you know with the 645 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,800 Speaker 1: Navajo code talkers, they came back to the after the 646 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: war and um it was classified what went on until nine. 647 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: Apparently they may have uh done this in Vietnam and career, 648 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,759 Speaker 1: although I don't think anyone has totally knows that for sure. Yeah, 649 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: but they did not. You would think like, oh, and 650 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: after nineteen sixty eight they were just put on a 651 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: pedestal and praised um all throughout the United States. That 652 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: is not true. They were basically sent back to the 653 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: reservations with what awaited them there, which was poverty and 654 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: hardship and alcoholism and disenfranchisement and um some I mean 655 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: some of them we're we're lucky enough to boot strap 656 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: up from military mansion. I think ones that stayed in 657 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: the military afterward made a career out of it tended 658 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: to do better than ones that you know, went back 659 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: right after the war. Some of them were able to 660 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: get into college. Um. Some of them tried to buy 661 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: houses on the reservation through the g I Bill, which 662 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: was very much their right as veterans after World War two. Um, 663 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: But through a fluke of the treaties that put them 664 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: on the reservation, they don't they didn't actually own the land. 665 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: The land that they owned was held in trust, so 666 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: they couldn't show the bank actually own this land or 667 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: the guy am trying to buy this land from owns 668 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: the land. So the g I Bill was useless for 669 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: a lot of them, which is a big black eye 670 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: on it was just basically par for the course for 671 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: how most of them were treated afterward. Um, I mean, 672 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: just right back on the reservation. It was just the 673 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: usual reservation life again. Nineteen sixty nine, there was a 674 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 1: reunion at the fourth Marine Division. In seventy one, Nixon 675 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: awarded them a certificate of thanks yea and a light 676 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: punch in the arm. An old tricky Dick. Uh. In 677 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: two August fourteenth was declared National Code Talker Day. That 678 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 1: was for all code talkers. Yeah, not just Navajo code talkers, 679 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: but those original twenty nine. We're given a Congressional Gold 680 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: medal in two thousand and uh. In two thousand fourteen, 681 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: on June four the final original code talker, Navajo code 682 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: talker Chester Nez, passed away. And uh, just look at 683 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,240 Speaker 1: the picture of Chester Nez in Easy, just that sweet 684 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: face and he's got the veteran's hat on that says 685 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: Navajo code talker on it. I love those hats. Pretty amazing. Um. 686 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: The the uh, the awards ceremony, so they were awarded 687 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: the Congressional Medal of Honor and two thousand the original 688 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: twenty nine. But when they actually presented the award in 689 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: two thousand one, by that time there are only four 690 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: of them left alive. And that's a big criticism too, 691 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: Um that it was like, you could probably done this 692 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: a little a little sooner while they were alive. Still, 693 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: it might have taken sixty something years to just sort 694 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: of get that ceremony in order right. They wanted to 695 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: get everything just right. But that was amazing, And yeah, 696 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: hopefully somebody will make a movie about it that's not 697 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: mostly about Nick Cage's character the White Guy. Uh. If 698 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: you want to know more about code talkers, you can 699 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: search them on the internet and there's some fascinating stuff 700 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: out there. Oh and Chuck, if you want to know 701 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 1: more about Navajo code talkers and you happened to ever 702 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: be in Kyenta, Arizona, there's a burger king there and 703 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: it has basically a Navajo code talker museum. It's basically 704 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: just a case, but it counts. It qualifies as a 705 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: mini museum. Sure, grab a whopper learned something. Yeah, and 706 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: since I said that, it's time for a listener Mayo, 707 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this easy Bake oven follow up um 708 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: from Oregon. So guys just listen to easy Bake ovens Um. 709 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: I've always been a big believer in kids playing with 710 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: whatever toys they want, and as a kid, I spent 711 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: a great deal of time playing in the dirt with 712 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: my brothers, making roads and parking lots for our hot wheels. 713 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: Flash forward twenty years my son wanted me to take 714 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: him to the toy store to spend some six birthday money. 715 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: Sixth birthday money, I followed him as he perused the 716 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 1: remote control cars various action figures, and he disappeared around 717 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,879 Speaker 1: the corner, and before I could get to the other 718 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: alda find him, he came tromping back holding an easy 719 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: bake oven. He asked me if he had enough money 720 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: to buy it, and he did, Uh, this about twenty 721 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: bucks as he As we walked to the counter, I 722 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: asked him if he wanted me to carry it for 723 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: him put it in a cart, because the box was 724 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: about as big as he was, and he insisted on 725 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: carrying it himself. Although I've always encouraged him to play 726 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: with what he wants, I was surprised that he wanted 727 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: to carry it himself. His dad was not always so 728 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: open minded voice playing with what he called girl toys, 729 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,800 Speaker 1: and probably still isn't Uh. We are no longer together, 730 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: needless to say. Anyway, we pay for the oven and 731 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: my son carries it to the car. He won't let 732 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: me put it in the trunk or even in the 733 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 1: seat next to him. He held it on his lap 734 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: the whole way home. The stories just adorbs in every way. 735 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 1: While we were driving, he examined the box and made 736 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 1: a harrump sound asked him what was wrong, and he said, uh, 737 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: that he was mad. And asked him why. He said, 738 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 1: the boxes pink and there's only a girl on it, 739 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: but boys like to cook to Mom told him I agree. 740 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: Uh so I guess you could say he has always 741 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,879 Speaker 1: been woke. Uh. He made many treats with his oven 742 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: over the years. And I even have a photo of 743 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: him somewhere wearing his Grandma's frillly cooking apron with a 744 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: big smile on his face. And that is from Davina H. 745 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: M Berry in Portland, Oregon. Another Emburry Is there another one? Yeah? Really? Yeah. 746 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: We never really figured out how to say that last name, 747 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: but there was like within the last month or two 748 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: there was an m Burry. Weird. I wonder if it 749 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: was her, thanks a lot to Vina. Yeah, maybe maybe 750 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: it was. I think the other one was with the 751 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,839 Speaker 1: E that's with an eye. Huh. Yeah. I will figure 752 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,879 Speaker 1: it out one day. Uh. If you want to, if 753 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,359 Speaker 1: you're an Emberry or an Embury or whatever, you want 754 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, you can join us 755 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,399 Speaker 1: on social Just go do stuff you should know dot 756 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: com and find all the links there or send us 757 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: all an email. The stuff podcast at how stuff works 758 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, 759 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: is it how stuff works dot com.