1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: What we've seen here in Orange County, especially in Seal Beach, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: is these organized retail theft crews come in, they get arrested, 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: and the first thing they say to us is, aren't 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: you just gonna give me a ticket? It's like, no, 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: you're going to jail. You committed a crime. And that's 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: something that I mean, the look of shock on their 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: face is. 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: Predictable because they're accustomed to just walking free with a ticket. Yeah, 9 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: and Seal Beach is different. And what's that famous phrase 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: you came up with, Don't steal and Seal. I'm Jonathan 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: Walton and this is Queen of the Con Season six, 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: The California Girls, Episode eight, Don't Steal in Seal. This 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: is a bonus episode where I sit down with a 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: veteran cop who was thrust into the world of retail 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: theft after a fellow cop framed him for a crime 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: he did not commit. This is my eye opening conversation 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: with Sergeant Jordan Marakian. 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm Sergeant Jordan Raccan Seal Beach Police Department. Been a 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: police officer for over twenty years. I've worked for the 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: Laguna Beach Police Department and I started my career as 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: a police officer in San Diego. I have a unique background. 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: In two thousand and six, when I was just what 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: we call a baby cop, I was wrongfully terminated. Ooh, 24 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: and that happens sometimes in law enforcement. You get accused 25 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: of something and you have an agency that maybe over zealous, 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: and they immediately terminate you. In my case, I was 27 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: accused of stealing fifty five dollars from a person, which 28 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: everyone knew it didn't happen. I knew it didn't happen. 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: I don't even know the details, but that just sounds 30 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: so dumb, like, why would you if you're going to 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: steal steal fifty five thousand, why would you steal fifty 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: five dollars? 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: Well, candidly, there's a little bit more to it. I 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: was up for promotion and the gentleman that I was 35 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: up for the promotion against happened to work in internal affairs. 36 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: So the best way to eliminate your competition is to 37 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: get rid of them. 38 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: Wow. 39 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: And it was a huge It was a huge deal 40 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and six, and I got my 41 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: job back and you were cleared. I was one cleared. 42 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: But what God to do that to someone? 43 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: It's so messed up it is, but it happens. I'll 44 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: tell you, it happens a lot in police work. It's 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: a it's a very strange thing that happens when you're 46 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: somebody that rocks the boat, or you're somebody that maybe 47 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: up for a promotion. It's a very competitive, cutthroat industry. 48 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: So when I was wrongfully terminated, I went to work 49 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: for the Home Depot as a lost prevention officer, And 50 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: so I spent seven months waiting to get my job back, 51 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: walking up and down the aisles of Home Depot looking 52 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: for shoplifters, and I very quickly learned that retail theft 53 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: is a huge deal. I mean, just to give you 54 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: an example, the store that I worked at, this is 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: one Home Depot store. They lost on average every year 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: two million dollars one store. That one store, Oh my god. 57 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: In each store it's called shrink and each store has 58 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: an allocated amount that there that's okay for them to 59 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: lose if they go over that, people like me at 60 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: the time lost prevention could lose our jobs. So there 61 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: was a lot of pressure to arrest people and recover property. 62 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: Now there are some theft crews out there that use 63 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: things like booster bags, which a booster bag is like 64 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: it's a shopping bag essentially, So like I walk into 65 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: Target with Target bags and I put Target merchandise in those. 66 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: Bags, so you give the illusion that it's paid for 67 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: merchandise because you have a Target bag, right. 68 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: And then there are other more sophisticated operations, like we 69 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: have Romanian theft crews, and I specifically say Romanian because 70 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: nine times out of ten they. 71 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: Are from Romania. 72 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, from Romania, and they'll go in. They do a 73 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: lot of distraction thefts, so it's theater. Yeah, They'll they'll 74 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: have like one person distracts the employee while the other 75 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: two steal the goods. Sometimes they'll they'll come in and 76 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: one of them wist, slip and fall, and everybody attends 77 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: to that person while things are being stolen, long dresses 78 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: or bulky clothing. And then under the clothing they literally 79 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: have like nylon bags or nylon sewn in where they 80 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: can drops yeah, deep pockets, yeah, to drop stuff in. 81 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: And that's a little more sophisticated. You don't see that 82 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: as frequently as you see spash and grabs or. 83 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 2: Just running in, grinding in, going blit. They have a 84 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: getaway car YEP with no license plates on them. 85 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: Sidebar. 86 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 2: If you've listened to Queen of the Cohn season two, 87 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: The OC Savior about a truly cunning con artist named 88 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: Lizzie Maulder who scammed her circle of friends and associates 89 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: out of nearly two million dollars using voice changing apps 90 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: on her phone. Hi, my name is Marcy. 91 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm calling from Bank of America. 92 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 2: A fake degree from Pepperdine University. 93 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: And we know how prestigious that school is. 94 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 2: And a firefighter husband who gave her the appearance of legitimacy. 95 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: Her husband says he was not a collaborator. That's a 96 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: fricking joke. 97 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, then you know Sergeant Jordan Morakian because he was 98 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: the incredible detective at the time who took that scammer down. 99 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: Just the arrogance of Lizzie Moulder. It made it easier 100 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,679 Speaker 1: for me to go after her because I just didn't 101 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: like her. 102 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: Keep in mind, Marakian's bosses ordered him to drop the 103 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 2: case because they weren't going to prosecute Lizzie Mulder, but 104 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: Marakian refused and went over his boss's heads and straight 105 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: to the Feds, and then in a truly spectacular turn 106 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: of events, Marakian going rogue got connor as Lizzie Mulder, 107 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: federally charged, convicted, and ultimately sent to prison. I often fantasize. 108 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: About you, this is not going where you think it's going. 109 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 2: If you were the cop on duty the day I 110 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 2: walked in to report my con artist, if instead of 111 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: a guy who turned me away and told me there 112 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 2: wasn't a crime here, if you were the guy, I 113 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: think you would have taken it seriously, because it's a 114 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: crazy case what happened to me. And when I furnished 115 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: them eventually with like more than two dozen other victims, 116 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: ultimately they only ever filed a single felony for grand 117 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 2: theft in my case. They never investigated the other cases. 118 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: And I just feel like you would have done it differently. 119 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate that. I mean, the sad reality about 120 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: my profession is that, like any profession, they're good apples 121 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: and bad apples. And sometimes when you get to the 122 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: rank of detective, you get two kinds of detectives. You 123 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: get the detective that is, for lack of a better word, 124 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: as a pit bull and goes after everyone, and then 125 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: you get the detective that wants to we call it 126 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: ride the desk, meaning cost out the rest of their career. 127 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: Do is do minimal amount of work and as little 128 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: work possible. So you know, anytime somebody walks into a 129 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: police station and they ask for an investigator or they 130 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: ask for detectives to help, it really depends on who 131 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: you end up with. 132 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a look of the draw, it really is. 133 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: It could go two different ways. The one thing though, 134 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: that Sergeant Mrakian helped me understand about the Michelle Matt 135 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: case is why the California Highway Patrol, a law enforcement 136 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: agency that most people associate with issuing speeding tickets and 137 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: chasing bad guys on freeways, would be tapped to break 138 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: up the Michelle Mack shoplifting ring. It struck me as 139 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: odd when I started investigating this case. Why the CHP. 140 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 2: Why the California Highway Patrol and not the various municipality 141 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: police departments or sheriff's offices. 142 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: Why the CHP, Well, California is one of the few 143 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: states that technically doesn't have state police officers. We do, 144 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: which is Highway Patrol. So the reason why the Highway 145 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: Patrol investigates it is there's multiple jurisdictions involved, so you 146 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: can group the cases all together under the umbrella of 147 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: the Organized Retail Thefts Task Force with the Highway Patrol. 148 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 2: So otherwise it would be unwieldy, Right, You'd have this 149 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: county and that county, that city in that town, and 150 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 2: police and here from all these different organizations who don't 151 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: necessarily do a great job of talking to each other 152 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: and sharing information. 153 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: And we don't have the resources to investigate a crew 154 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: in multiple jurisdictions. And again, I hate to keep going 155 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: back to the Lozy Moulder case, but out of the 156 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen victims we identified, only one was in 157 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: Laguna Beach. I just happened to for whatever reason, I 158 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: wanted to go after it, you know. And I went 159 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: after her and cared, and I called the agencies that 160 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: were involved. I called agencies that had victims in their cities, 161 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: and they wanted nothing to do with it. 162 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: God, that's annoying, it is. 163 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: And and you know, I won't put them on blast 164 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: on this podcast, but they wanted nothing to do with it. Now, 165 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: when she was arrested, they wanted all the credit. Wanted 166 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: all the credit. Don't dip out of a case where 167 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: I could have used your help, yeah, but didn't want 168 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: to be there for the photo. 169 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: Op, right, they wanted to be there for the photo op. 170 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: It fired me up, you know, rightfully, so, yeah, because 171 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: you were just trying to do the right thing and 172 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: put this woman behind bars where she belonged, and everyone 173 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: seemed to be dropping the ball or passing the buck 174 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: or not giving a fly in f. 175 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: Right, And that was two years of my life. 176 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank god, yeah, thank god he did it. 177 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: Man. Well, I'm glad that we got one right. 178 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: After the break. You won't believe what kinds of videos 179 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: Sergeant Murkian is actually posting on his police department's Instagram page. 180 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: To some extent, I've been accused of public shaming. 181 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Queen of the Khan. Sergeant Jordan Murrakian 182 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: has been making waves in law enforcement for the past 183 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: twenty years. 184 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: It's a very strange thing that happens when you're somebody 185 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: that rocks the boat. 186 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: The other thing Sergeant Murrakian is getting a lot of 187 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: attention for these days is the unconventional social media account 188 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 2: he created for his department that puts all the shoplifters 189 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: getting busted in Seal Beach on blast. What I want 190 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: listeners to understand is you, Sergeant Jordan Morakian, have put 191 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: your police department in Seal Beach on the map nationally 192 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: for this social media engagement that you kind of just invented. 193 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: Like at some point you thought, what, like people hate cops, 194 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: let me try to change that. Because you've done your 195 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 2: Instagram page on Seal Beach and now how do people 196 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: find it? Is it just at seals at Seal Beach Police, 197 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: at Seal Beach Police. It is so engaging and entertaining, 198 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: and I find myself cracking up because you'll take these 199 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: police bodycam videos of arrests, You'll take these shoplifters getting 200 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: caught and getting arrested, and you'll you'll edit together the bodycam, 201 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: the police carcam, the store video, close circuit camp, Like 202 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: it's so compelling. You make these little videos and you 203 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: have like a like a like a pop song. Sometimes 204 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: they're addited to you. 205 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: Gotta fail me, You gotta fail any manu roads double heg. 206 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: And you've increased engagement in Seal Beach and turned the 207 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 2: tide of public opinion for police in Seal Beach and 208 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: now other departments call you like, hey, we want to 209 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: do what you're doing. Can you help us? 210 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: Right, how did you come up with this? Well, that's 211 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: a that's a great question, and I'm going to try 212 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: and give you a short winded of an answer. I mean, 213 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: first and foremost, I have a little bit of a 214 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: chip on my shoulder when it comes to theft because 215 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: I worked in lost prevention. I'm an honest, tax paying 216 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: citizen consumer who doesn't want to pay increased prices because 217 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: other people are stealing goods. I have a dark sense 218 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: of humor, and I was lucky enough at the time 219 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: that I started the platform to have a chief that 220 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: trusted me, So all those things happened at the same time, 221 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: and I was able to use my ability to tell 222 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: a story through humor on a platform that happened to 223 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: be a police department. Right. And I think that law 224 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, candidly, I think that they felt that they 225 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: always had to be very vanilla to be safe. To 226 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: be safe, don't get canceled, right, don't get canceled. But 227 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: I don't think that police departments have given enough credit 228 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: to their communities. Their communities want to see that we're 229 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: doing our job and that they don't want to see 230 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: us doing TikTok videos and dancing around our patrol car. 231 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: They want to see us doing our job, and they 232 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,359 Speaker 1: want to see the people that are victimizing these businesses. 233 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: They want to know, well, who did it. 234 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: I'm posting a clip of one of Sergeant Morakian's social 235 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: media videos at Queen of the Khan on Instagram so 236 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: you can see what we're talking about. 237 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: To some extent, I've been accused of public shaming and 238 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: maybe maybe I am right, But you're shaming people who 239 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: are stealing, correct, So shouldn't shouldn't they be shamed? And 240 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: what's shaming? 241 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: You're broadcasting their image that the security camera footage got 242 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: of them stealing the thing in the store and trying 243 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: to run out and you catching them. 244 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, to some extent, i am shaming them 245 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: because they should know better. But I'm also shaming them 246 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: because they're targeting us very specific thing, because they're taking 247 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: advantage of these lenient laws. And what's the narrative that 248 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: we've heard in the media for years is that you know, 249 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: these people are stealing to feed their families, they're stealing 250 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: to you know, live, Well, you're going to have our 251 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: time justifying that. To me, when it's an organized crew 252 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: that's coming in and stealing makeup and beauty supplies and 253 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: things of that nature, I'm going to have a really 254 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: hard time buying that right. 255 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: Because they're not stealing food to eat for themselves or 256 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: stealing products to use for themselves in their lives. They're 257 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: stealing as a business to sell it to the fencer 258 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: who's going to sell it to someone else. 259 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're taking that money and they're buying, you know, 260 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: clothes and shoes and fancy cars. You know. You ask 261 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: any police officer, including me, when we've arrested somebody that's 262 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: stealing food because they're hungry, we end up paying for 263 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: the food. Oh wow, I mean, I would venture to 264 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: say that ninety nine percent of the cops out there. 265 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: When you have someone that wanders into a store steals 266 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: a rotisserie chicken, gets detained by the store, we show 267 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: up and the first thing we say is, you know, 268 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: why'd you steal the chicken? I'm hungry and I have 269 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: seen more police officers. I've done it myself, reach into 270 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: our pockets, pull out some money and pay for it 271 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: and just say, you know what, I don't think we 272 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: need to arrest this person, right, we give them a 273 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: stern warning, like, hey, listen, Like you can't just steal food. 274 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: You know, there are resources available for you through homeless 275 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: outreach or through you know whatever. But when it's you know, 276 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: Milwaukee drill bits and copper and power saws and old 277 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: part of the operation. It's part of a bigger operation. Yeah, 278 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: I think you're right. 279 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: Have you ever as a police officer, now not lost prevention, 280 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: but just as a cop working, have you personally busted shoplifters? 281 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, and how does that go? I mean, I 282 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: mean I that's an everyday thing. You mean, have I 283 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: personally been in a store and arrested a shoplift or 284 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: like shown up to a store because you've been called 285 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: and you had to cuff them. And we get called 286 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: every day shoplifting every day. Yeah. So in the city 287 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: of Seal Beach, we have target calls Burlington Co Factory, Marshalls, 288 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: and we have an ol to Beauty, So we on 289 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: a daily basis get calls for shoplifting, right, And we've 290 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: developed good relationships with those stores and we've reassured them 291 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: you can call us because what's happening a lot. And 292 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: we've heard this directly from the employees. Is corporate told 293 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: us not to call. H Well, why did corporate tell 294 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: you not to call? Well, they said, because you guys 295 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: won't show up anyway. Well, what they're doing is they're 296 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: they're likening us to surrounding counties that don't show up. 297 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: Sealed Beach is different. We're different. And I'm not saying 298 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: we're the best. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm 299 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: saying is. 300 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: But if you get a call from from Marshalls, hey, 301 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 2: we caught the shoplifter. 302 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: He's in the back. Will you come arrest him? We're there. Wow. Yeah. 303 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: And and part of the reason, by the way, it's 304 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: not because we're a better police department. We work in 305 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: a city where the crime rate is relatively low. 306 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 2: So it stands out more we have time. 307 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, we're not inundated with gang violence. Oh I 308 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: get that now, you know what I mean. 309 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: You're not that busy with all the other crazy stuff happening, right, 310 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: you have time to go arrest the shop lefter. 311 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: We have our share of stuff. I mean, just yesterday 312 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: we had a robbery at seven to eleven, Like at gunpoint. No, 313 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: they didn't use guns, but they went in and they 314 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: threatened the clerk and it was a crew of three. 315 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: And that's actually something that's another technique is they're juveniles. 316 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: So these organized retail theft crews use juveniles to do 317 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: the crime because juveniles don't get prosecuted as much as adults. Right, 318 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: they get diversion. 319 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we learned in season three, right, what that is 320 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 2: a diversion program. It's take take some classes online, and 321 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: you're free to go. 322 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they get released to a responsible adult. So 323 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: they don't they don't even go to jail. They don't 324 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: go to juvenile hall. Right. Right, I r s Johnny. 325 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: He's sixteen. He just stole something from Target while I'm 326 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: on the phone with mom. Right, come pick up Johnny. Right, 327 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: Johnny gets a ticket and maybe he gets diversion. Maybe 328 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: not right, And your arrests as a juvenile don't affect 329 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: you as an adult as much. Right, So that's why 330 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: they're using juveniles. 331 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 2: That's a good. That's a good, that's a that's a 332 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 2: smart plan. 333 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: What we've seen here in Orange County, especially in Seal Beach, 334 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 1: is these organized retail theft crews come in they get 335 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: arrested and the first thing they say to us is, 336 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: aren't you just gonna give me a ticket? It's like, no, 337 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: you're going to jail. You committed a crime and that 338 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: and that's something that I mean, the look of shock 339 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: on their face is. 340 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: Predictable because they're accustomed to just walking free with a ticket. Yeah, 341 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: and seal beach is different. And what's the famous phrase 342 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: you came up with? Don't steal and seal don't steal 343 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: it cheesy, but it works, it does, and it's caught 344 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 2: on it's caught stole it from you sinceera's form of flattery, 345 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: and they're using similar sayings. 346 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: They are and you're even seeing the Orange County DA 347 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: Todd Spitzer has an ad campaign saying if you steal 348 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: an Orange County, we prosecute. And it's very I mean, 349 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that they stole my idea. 350 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 2: I'll tell them they stole your idea. But you started 351 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 2: the don't steal in seal right, brilliant. You should have 352 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: been an ad man. And now everyone's adopting that one 353 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 2: line to tweaking it for their purpose. 354 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: Well, and I think what I think what they're doing 355 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: also is I would use the emoji of an orange 356 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: for Orange County, and you're seeing that pop up on 357 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: the billboards from a district attorney, Todd Spitzer. I'm all 358 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: for it, you know. I think it's great. When you're 359 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: driving into Orange County from Mela County, you'll count at 360 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: least five or six billboards that say if you steal 361 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: an Orange County you will be prosecuted. Wow, that's a 362 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: good message to send. 363 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 2: After the break. Sergeant Mrakians schools us on the pitfalls 364 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: of getting accustomed to a. 365 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: High dollar lifestyle. So when she'd quit bartending and became 366 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: a physical therapist, she took a fifty percent pay cut. 367 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Queen of the Khan. In my conversation 368 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: with Sergeant Jordan Mrakian about the whys and wherefores of 369 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: professional shoplifting. 370 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: If you think about it, it's an easier and less 371 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: punitive way to make quick money. Yeah. I mean you 372 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: run more of a risk, more of a risk getting 373 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: arrested selling drugs than you do walking into aulta beauty 374 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles County, where you know the police aren't 375 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: going to respond, the employees aren't going to chase you, 376 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: so I'm just going to walk in here and you 377 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: can steal ten high end makeup items and make two 378 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: three thousand dollars quick depending on what you steal. 379 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that stuff there's expensive, right, it's crazy. 380 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: So they target very specific merchandise. And if you multiply 381 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: that times ten to fifteen people, and each person, let's say, 382 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: is making one thousand dollars, right, meaning they're stealing one 383 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: thousand dollars worth of merchandise, let's ten to fifteen grand 384 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: per day. 385 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot of money to lose if you're 386 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: alta or any store, right. 387 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially like going in wearing a mask, wearing 388 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: a hoodie, knowing the employees aren't going to chase you, 389 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 1: knowing that the consequences, depending on the county you're in, 390 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: are minimal. It's easy money. And you have all these 391 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: online fencing operations. Amazon is one of them. I mean Amazon, 392 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: they're trying to do their part, so they say, so, 393 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: they say, but they still make money on these sales, right, 394 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: So what part is that? Right? And that doesn't even 395 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: include eBay, offer up, Facebook, Marketplace, whatnot. There are different 396 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: apps out there where you can make a quick buck. 397 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: Not to mention the swap meet. Yeah, they sell them 398 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: like a trunk at a swap meet all the time. 399 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: So a liquor store, for example, which a lot of 400 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: people don't realize, some of your biggest fencing operations are 401 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: liquor stores. 402 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: So I go to Ralph's. 403 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm a thief. I steal ten tide pod containers, you know, 404 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: the detergent. Yeah, those are expensive thirty six to forty 405 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: five dollars each. Right. I turn around and I fence 406 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: them to a liquor store for twenty bucks. The liquor 407 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,479 Speaker 1: store sells them for thirty five to forty They make 408 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: their money back. Uh. 409 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: I put an ad on Craigslist looking for shoplifters I 410 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 2: can interview, and within a day, within twenty four hours, 411 00:23:54,119 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: I got hundreds of responses in Los Angeles, hundreds of people, 412 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 2: hundreds of shoplifters willing to tell me how they shoplift, 413 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 2: why they shoplift, whether they're former or current. And I 414 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 2: found this one woman. She got into it by accident. 415 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: She was kicked out of the house at eighteen. Her 416 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 2: father died, her mother hated her, kicked her out of 417 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 2: the house, and she was homeless. And she found out 418 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: about shoplifting through other homeless people. She was sharing I 419 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: don't know a bridge with Like, what are you, you know, 420 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 2: living outside? I got the sense that this is not 421 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: something she wants to do, but just doesn't have knowledge. 422 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 2: She's kicked out of the house at eighteen. I mean, 423 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 2: where would you be if you were kicked out of 424 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 2: the house at eighteen? Like, where would I be? I 425 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 2: wouldn't be sitting here. I don't know what out. 426 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: Maybe i'd be a shoplifter too, Maybe i'd be like 427 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: a yeah, and I'm sympathetic to that. I mean, you know, 428 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: like I said, everyone has their unique story and circumstances. 429 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 1: You could say, like, what incentive is there for her 430 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: to work at a coffee shop making seventeen bucks an 431 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: hour eight hours and she can make a thousand in 432 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: one day? I get that, you. 433 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 2: Know, but and she pointed out it's a She told 434 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: me she's not hurting anybody. 435 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's how she sleeps at night. Yeah. 436 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 2: Do you find a lot of homeless people are shoplifters? Like, 437 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 2: I didn't know that's a thing. Not really, huh, I'm surprised. 438 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: Well, let me ever a phrase that they're not stealing 439 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: the high dollar items. They're stealing, things like T shirt, food, 440 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: they're they're stealing like singular items to get by right. 441 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: No, but she's working for fences. 442 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't. We we typically don't see that. We're 443 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: seeing the we're seeing gangs, like actual street gangs. We're 444 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: seeing families. We we arrested a mother and a daughter 445 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: the other. 446 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 2: Day, a mother and a daughter shoplifting. 447 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. I posted something in the story about that on 448 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: Seal Beach PD. 449 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: Oh you got to send me that video. 450 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: It was a Mother's Day post. I took a picture 451 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: of her being arrested, and I made it into a 452 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: Mother's Day card, Happy Mother's Day something. Hopefully you'll be 453 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: out of jail by Sunday or something, you know, Sunday brunch. Yeah, 454 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: so you know, yes, homeless people do steal. But if 455 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: you think about it, and this isn't meant to sound insensitive, 456 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: but when you see someone who's homeless, you typically can 457 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: tell they're homeless. Right, So if a homeless person goes 458 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: into a retail store, they're going to stick out, They're 459 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: going to be watched, so it's very hard for them 460 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: to accomplish what it is they're setting out to do. 461 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 2: I just chose her because she told me and she 462 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 2: showed me. She's working for many fences, and she sent 463 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: me this eighty five page I kid you not, man, 464 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: eighty five page pdf document, color coded with all the 465 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 2: items her fences are requesting and what they'll pay for 466 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 2: each one. Yeah, and she goes around with that. 467 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: Like a shopping lists and steals. Yeah. That's common more 468 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: often than not when we see people committing theft, Like 469 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: we'll show up to Target, let's say, and the arrest 470 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: the person and then we watch the video, the CCTV 471 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: video from Target, and you'll see them looking at their phone. 472 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: They have a list, and what they do is they 473 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: pose is like a Instacart or you know, because it's 474 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: common that they're looking. 475 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 2: Right like they're an Instacart shopper filling a list for Instacart, 476 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 2: when really they're a shoplifter professional feeling a list for 477 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 2: a fencer, right, huh. 478 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: And it's I mean, it really is. It's an easy payday. 479 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 1: In the case of the girl you're telling me about, 480 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: you get used to living on a certain wage and 481 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: it's extremely difficult. I guess the best example I have 482 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: is I have a friend named Lauren that was a 483 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: bartender at a high end restaurant, and she was making 484 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: six figures a year being a bartender. But she always 485 00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: wanted to be a physical therapist. 486 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 2: I know where this is going. 487 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: So when she'd quit bartending and became a physical therapist, 488 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: she took a fifty percent pay. 489 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 2: Cut, fifty percent, she had to. 490 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: Go back to bartending. Yeah, so now you know, she's 491 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: in her thirties bartending miserable. But she got used to 492 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: living off of that salary. Yeah, what options does she have? 493 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: And bartending's fun it can be, but you lose your 494 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: weekends if you work at certain Yeah, you gotta work 495 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: on the weekend. Yeah, that's where the money comes in. 496 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 2: It's human nature, really. We get accustomed to a certain 497 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: income and a certain lifestyle. Then it plunges us all 498 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: into debt and a perpetual cycle of wanting more and 499 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: more and more. If we could all just figure out 500 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: a way to be content with less in the big picture, 501 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: we'd be a lot less stressed about finances. Shoplifting queen 502 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 2: bees included. 503 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: So I think Michelle Mack probably would have gotten away 504 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: with it had she not lived in such a sprawl 505 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: a state. But she did what all fraudsters do. She 506 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: got greedy. 507 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 2: They get greedy and they show off. Yeah, and they 508 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: feel like they're untouchable at some point. Yeah, she knew 509 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 2: exactly what she was doing. Very sophisticated operation, very sophisticated. 510 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 511 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to season six of Queen of the Con. 512 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 2: We've got five previous seasons you can binge about some 513 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: really crazy and crafty con artists, beginning with season one 514 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: about the woman who conned me. You won't believe where 515 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 2: she is right now, stay tuned for that. If you're 516 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: enjoying Queen of the Con, tell someone click that share 517 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: button and send this podcast to anyone you think might 518 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: be into it. Also, if you can leave us a 519 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: five star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. 520 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 2: Queen of the Con The California Girls is a production 521 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 2: of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, Hosted by me Jonathan Walton. 522 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 2: Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa 523 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 2: Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein. Written by 524 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: Jonathan Walton, Edited and mixed by Justin Longerbeam Audio engineer 525 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 2: Justin Longerbeam. Mastered by Hugh Guestitt, Justin Longerbeam legal counsel 526 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: for AYR Media, Johnny Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya 527 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: Howard