WEBVTT - 010423 Why Certain Foods are Associated with Racism (Part 1) 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.600 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host, 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:05.080 Rams's Jah. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.880 A lot of people, including my co host, called me 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.280 q Ward and mostly that's because my name is Quentin, 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.320 so Q is the short and then Ward is my 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.600 last name. So that's just kind of how that whole 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:17.360 thing came to. 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:24.000 Be very thorough. Indeed, stick around today's episode. We got 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.360 a lot of cool stuff to talk about, some things 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.319 you might not know and that you might want to know, 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:37.680 including the story about watermelons and their relationship to black 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:39.920 folks in this country. We're going to ask the question 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.519 are watermelons racist? Which I know, on his face sounds crazy, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:48.320 but trust me, it's worth exploring a little. Later in 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:52.720 the show, we're going to talk about black church, which 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.600 is not a subject that we get into too heavily 0:00:55.680 --> 0:01:00.400 on this show, but today it felt kind of important 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.959 to reach out and or reach over into that subject matter. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:12.680 So today's show will be a look back a way 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:18.800 black history fact show nearly in its entirety, if you will, 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.880 so a lot to stick around for, but definitely a 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.959 lot of knowledge, maybe some insight in some areas you 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.760 may not have known about, and that's what we aim 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.360 to do here, of course, each and every episode. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.520 Of City Cipher. But first and foremost, let's get into 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:41.400 some Ebony excellence. So today's EBNY excellence, we are talking 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.400 about a stamp that will honor the late civil rights 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:52.880 leader John Lewis. So today's EBNY Excellence comes from Black 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:58.480 Enterprise and it reads, he lived his life fighting for 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.720 equality and human rights. Now his legacy and good trouble 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.200 model will live on. The US Postal Service announced that 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.359 it will circulate his stamp honoring the life and legacy 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.880 of late civil rights leader John Lewis. According to Axios, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:14.880 the stamp will feature a photograph of Lewis that was 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.519 captured by photographer Marco grobe or an issue of Time 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.720 that was published on August twenty six, twenty thirteen. And 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:27.200 here's a quote. Devoted to equality and justice for all Americans, 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.320 Lewis spent more than thirty years in Congress, steadfastly defending 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.040 and building on key civil rights gains that he helped 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.720 archive in the nineteen sixties. Unquote. And that comes from 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:42.880 the USPS. And here's a little bit more. Even in 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:44.800 the face of hatred and violence, as well as some 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.520 forty five arrests, Lewis remained resolute in his commitment to 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.399 what he liked to call good trouble. And this one 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:56.880 comes from Nikama Williams, who is the Democratic representative from Georgia. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:03.600 Linda Early, as a former chief of staff for Lewis, 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.760 who now heads the John Lewis and Lillian Miles Lewis Foundation, 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:13.240 embraced this announcement. Here's a quote fromer Lewis's face is 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.680 the face to voting rights. Having an honor postage stamp 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.320 honors Lewis and the movement which he led and in 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.799 the process encouraged his voter participation, civic engagement, and getting 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:30.000 into good trouble. That statement comes from NBC News. And 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.359 as you know, Lewis died at the age of eighty 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.640 and twenty twenty after long battle with acreatic cancer. The 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.920 late American politician and civil rights activists was known as 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.360 the Conscious of Congress for his unyielding battles racial equality, 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.920 voting rights, and human rights. And of course, the John 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.200 Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act that was passed in twenty 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.600 twenty one by the US House of Representatives is named 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:59.400 after him as well. We like to take a moment 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.840 around here to point out things that we feel are excellent, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:09.520 we feel are decidedly black, that need to be celebrated, 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.080 that might be overlooked. And you know, at least in 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:19.120 this arena, this moment John Lewis being honored with a 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.680 stamp is something that we will stop and and and 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:29.919 highlight and of course share with you. Now onward today 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:35.640 we are going to talk about watermelons. That's that's a 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:40.000 that's such a funny thing. Now, okay, let me paint 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.279 a picture for you. So let's say you're not a 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.520 black person, right, you might be thinking what's wrong with 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.560 the watermelon? They grow out of the ground. It's food. 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.039 Human beings eat food that grow out of the ground 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:54.840 all over the world. That's kind of what we do. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:00.200 It's delicious. Yeah, how about that? You know, But as 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:06.360 it turns out, you know, there are some things that 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:13.080 exist in our world, by our I mean, you know 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.120 black folks. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:15.480 That. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:22.760 Are really the legacy of a very hurtful relationship that 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.160 black folks have had with this country going all the 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:29.080 way back to the beginning, and they still persist to 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:33.080 this day. And so recently I came across you know, 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.120 I live in an older house. And you know, the 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.360 people that owned this house before I bought it had 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:46.279 some racist caricature black folks advertisements in the backyard, and 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.680 I never discovered them. I lived here. This has been 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.719 twelve years I've lived here. Never discovered them until recently 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.400 because they're posted on to the back of a beam 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.080 in my backyard. Anyway, I saw this stuff and I 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.800 was like, wow, you know, and and I saw, you know, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:05.000 there was a person, black skinned cartoon, big lips of course, 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.080 and he has like a watermelon that's huge, and he's 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.479 like smiling ear to ear, and I was like, you 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.160 know what. At some point, I need to make sure 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.960 that I discussed this with our listeners on the show. 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:25.000 So a bit about certain types of foods. I'll tell 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:26.960 a personal story. I might have shared a bit of 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.880 this before, but for those that don't know, Once upon 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.440 a time, I was working at a radio station in Phoenix, Arizona, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:41.640 and I was the production director of this radio station. 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.640 And I worked in a studio that was separate from 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:51.440 the broadcast studios. Right, So there was three studios, two 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:56.159 for broadcast, excuse me, one for production where I made 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.520 the radio commercials. I did the imaging. I basically made 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.760 everything that wasn't a song or wasn't a jock talking live, 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.320 and that was my job. Everyone knew that that was 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.839 my studio, and I know it belonged to the station, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.080 but there were all my posters up in there, all 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.559 my magazine covers, you know, because I was a jock too. 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.320 But that was where I spent most of my my day. 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.600 So wasn't there all the time. I had, you know, 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.080 my creature comforts in there, and then whoever needed to 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:24.800 come in the studio and use it with me, I 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.200 was the one recording their voice. Outside of that, it 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:32.680 was my studio. One day, I there was a recent 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.840 changing of the guard at the radio station. And then 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.920 you know, one day right after that, I walked into 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:43.080 my studio and I saw a banana on the mixer. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.400 The mixer is the big sort of device with all 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.600 the buttons and faders in a recording studio. So I 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.160 had one of those as well because I had to 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:55.840 you know, mix the mics and so forth. There's a 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:57.920 banana sitting right on there. When I walked into the room, 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:03.160 and immediately my heart sank and immediately I felt like, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.120 oh my god, I don't know if I should be afraid, angry, 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.480 you know what action I should take? How do I 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.000 you know? Because this felt very personal. It felt like 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:18.040 an attack on my character and who I am, and 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.600 an attack on my ancestors. You know, it's just it's just, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.760 you know. And for those that don't know, walking into 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.440 a studio and seeing a banana there, you would naturally 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:30.080 think maybe somebody left their banana there. It never even 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.960 entered into my mind. It never. When I saw that banana, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.839 I knew for a fact that somebody it might have 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:41.040 been the owner, and somebody left that for me to see, 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.280 because it was right there, right in front of my seat, 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:47.319 right where I couldn't miss it. And you know when 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.960 I say that, my heart sank, and that you know 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.600 that gripping fear, that paralytic fear that you feel when 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.680 you are walking down the street and you see like 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:57.760 a vicious dog in front of you with no chain 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.040 and no one around, like, oh my god, okay, I 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.840 need to figure out what I need to do. It 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:06.640 was that moment for me, and immediately I turned around 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.360 even walk into the room, I turned right back around 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:13.640 and let the door close, and I went into the 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:18.680 program director's office, somebody who I felt like was a 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:20.120 friend of mine. I still feel like that guy is 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.240 a friend of mine. I didn't assume that it was him, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:29.160 so to help paint that picture. He was always a 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.160 good man to me, you know, it felt like a 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.920 good man. He felt like like an ally, like the 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.520 sort of person that would listen to this show. So 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.920 I went into his office and I says, hey, man, 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.439 I don't know what is going on here, but somebody 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.480 just did something that was really out of pocket. And 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:47.960 he's like, what are you talking about. I was like, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.880 come here, let me show you. And then he got 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.079 up and he went and he saw it and he 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.000 had no idea. He's like, what am I looking for? 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.640 I'm like, do you see the banana there on the console? 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.240 And then when I pointed it out to him because 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:02.839 he had seen it. But when I pointed it out 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.640 to him, he was like, uh oh, And he's like, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.880 I don't know what this is. I have no idea here. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.720 Let me get this out of your way, let me 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.760 figure it out. Please don't worry about it. Right. So 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:15.960 this is why I say I feel like he was 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.400 a kind man. That was the reaction I would have 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.520 expected from him. Not that I was expecting anything, but 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.680 he just seemed like that sort of a person. Anyway, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.599 he took the banana and he kind of said some 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:34.200 kind words to kind of provide a sense of like 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.120 I'm going to protect you. You know, for those who 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.400 don't know, a program director is the boss of my 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.800 position at that time, which would have been a production 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.679 director and a jock. So he goes to his office 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.520 and he does a little bit of research, and maybe 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.400 an hour later he puts it all together. He's like, hey, 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.400 as it turns out, the morning show guy needed to 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.600 go into this udo to cut a promo, so he 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:03.440 used your studio to do it because he had to 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.720 make way for the afternoon or sorry, the midday woman 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.560 to do her show. So he used your studio and 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.960 that was part of his breakfast and he just forgot it. 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:14.800 And you know, he was riding his motorcycle that day. 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:16.640 He just forgot it. He just grabbed his helmet and 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.000 this and that and the third and he just left 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.959 it there. I don't think that it was anything directed 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:26.000 toward you, so all was right with the world. But 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:39.240 I think that that story illuminates just how jarring hour 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.040 meaning black folks relationship to food can be when it's 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:47.080 observed through the lens of other races, and other races 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:51.920 have the same type of these same types of issues. 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.560 You know, foods are closely associated with culture, and if 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.760 there's some way to pick on a culture, you know, 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.640 usually it's it's the most obvious one, you know, physical features, 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.920 with the way people dress, what they eat, and so forth. Right, 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:07.920 But you know, this is so that we can explain 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.800 our experience to folks who might not otherwise know. Now, 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.480 that was a banana, and obviously, or maybe it's not 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:24.320 so obvious. The connection there is that historically, based on 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:31.040 bogus science that was used to further subjugate and to 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:37.240 justify subjugate black folks and justify slavery, bananas were used 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:42.160 to or black folks rather were associated with more closely 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.520 with you know, apes and monkeys and things like this 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:53.720 too kind of create a bit of a divide between 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:58.960 real humans quote unquote and lesser beings so as to 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:03.520 justify our servitude, you know, at that point in time. 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.600 And so this is why you'll if you watch you know, 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.760 soccer games, you know, World Cup, things like this. You know, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.520 if there's a black team or black player that's doing 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.840 really well, you know, they'll throw bananas on the field 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:18.480 because what they're trying to do is make a connection 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.920 between black people and monkeys. And I'm not going to 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.440 pretend like, you know, us having brown skin, and you 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.840 know many of you know, many apes having you know, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.320 a brown color to their fur or whatever. You know, 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.240 it's it's just a silly connection and a juvenile connection 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.160 that people make, especially folks that wake up early in 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.600 the morning, get dressed, pack a banana in their kit, 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.200 and then go to the game with the specific intention 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.840 of throwing it as soon as a black person, you know, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.400 scores a goal or whatever. So these things are based 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.640 in history, so that you know, hence my reaction walking 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.520 into my studio seeing banana. Now we're we could talk 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.040 about malt liquor, we could talk about you know, fried chicken, 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.680 you know, and and maybe on later shows we will, 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.680 but you know, today the research was done on watermelon. 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:08.480 So allow me to share one thing that I know 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.959 to be true. And you and I've talked about this before. Q. 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:19.320 There's a song, the ice Cream Truck song. Remember we 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:24.160 talked about this, So the ice Cream Truck Song was 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:30.520 called inWORD love a watermelon. So next time you hear 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.040 the ice cream truck, you know, coming down the street, 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.920 just know that the actual melody from that music was 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.760 originally pinned in the title of that song was called 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.760 in word love of watermelon. Now the name changed after 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.840 that once the inn word fell out of fashion or whatever. 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:53.600 But the reason that that song became associated with ice 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:58.040 cream trucks is because once upon a time, you know, 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.960 whenever there were treats given out, ice cream went to 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.040 white folks and watermelon went to black folks because it 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.520 was cheaper, you know whatever, And so it became known 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.960 as like kind of the black man's or the black 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:14.080 man's ice cream, you know, the negro's ice cream. And 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:19.120 this is why you see these these caricatures, these these drawings, 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.640 these cartoons, like the ones that I found in my backyard, 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.960 these black folks holding a huge watermelon being so happy 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.920 when they eat it. Right, It's like it was known 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.400 as the equivalent of what ice cream would because many 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.440 obviously many black folks back in this time never were 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.040 able to taste ice cream because it was too much 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.640 of a delicacy or otherwise it was too expensive. Watermelons 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:48.680 were cheaper. But another thing about this is that and 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.400 I pulled this from the Atlantic, there's an article written 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.320 by William R. Black and I'll read this and I 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.440 want to hear your thoughts. Cue it goes. But the 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.480 stereotype that African Americans are excessively fond of watermelon emerged 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.600 for a specific historical reason and served a specific political purpose. 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.880 This is an addition to, you know, white folks eating 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.480 ice cream, black folks eating watermelon. So I'll continue. The 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.800 trope came in full first when slaves won their emancipation 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.360 during the Civil War. Free black people grew ate and 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.320 sold watermelons, and then doing so made the fruit a 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.960 symbol of their freedom. Southern whites, threatened by blacks newfound freedom, 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.760 responded by making the fruit a symbol of black people's 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:40.280 perceived uncleanliness, laziness, childishness, and unwonted public presence. This racist 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.600 trope then exploded in American popular culture, becoming so pervasive 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:49.160 that its historical origin became obscure. Few Americans in nineteen 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.240 hundred would have guessed the stereotype was less than half 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.280 a century old. And what they would do, And just 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:01.600 so you know, watermelons have always just been associated with 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.160 black people. It's been associated with other types of people, 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.679 Arab people, you know, and and typically it's associated with 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.520 poor folks. And you know, the way that it's been 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.600 politicized is, you know, you're going to have, you know, 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.280 watermelon rinds in your neighborhood all over the streets if 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:21.879 you allow these folks to come in, or if you 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:23.800 don't clean up this mess, or whatever the case is. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:31.280 But in this country, you know, this represented economic freedom 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:36.600 or you know, economic advancement we'll call it. And poor 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:42.159 Southern whites obviously didn't like that. Still don't you know, 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.840 like that a lot if you know their voting records 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:52.359 or anything to go by. And really, at that time, 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.320 and I believe largely today as well, you can make 0:17:55.320 --> 0:18:01.679 a case for it really needed, really needed someone to 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.800 blame their economic problems on. That wasn't the government, because 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.639 how in the world could you criticize the government, you know, 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.680 But let's blame these folks taking up all the jobs, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.800 you know, and doing whatever, selling their watermelons and making 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:18.800 their little bit of money and creating some sort of 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.439 economic independence from us, rather than coming to work for 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.080 us or coming to you know, whatever it is, and 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:30.720 so we end up with, now fast forward, the legacy 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:38.280 of these ideas and the legacy of these stereotypes results 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:45.080 in people nowadays eating watermelon, not in plain view of 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.040 someone who might not appreciate the fact that it's just food. 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.720 Now you listening, you might think, why in the world 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.000 would I think anything other than it's just a food, 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.440 And that's a person eating their lunch or whatever, which 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.760 makes perfect sense. And my hat's off to you because 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:04.040 you've either managed to escape, you know, being indoctrinated in 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:08.880 this way, or you know, you just maybe you really 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.760 just don't see it that way. And maybe a lot 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.360 of people don't see it that way, but there are 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.240 some people that do see it that way. You know, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.440 we saw lots of these cartoons with you know, watermelon 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.040 flavored toothpaste, you know, when Obama was in office, and 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.840 you know, these things still exist. You know, they're they're 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.320 deeply rooted in the American history and American legacy and 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:36.600 American psyche, but they also exist for us, for black folks. 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.920 You know, I didn't, I wouldn't I. You know, banana 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.879 is a banana. If you like bananas, that stands to 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.639 reason other human beings or creatures that share this planet 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.480 will like bananas too, Same with fried chicken, same with watermelon, 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.159 same with anything. You know, We're all the same, you know, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.800 from a scientific standpoint, meaning that we all consume foods, 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:57.800 eat them. You know, they nourish our bodies and they 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:03.960 fortify us and allow us to live full lives. But 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:05.960 far be it for me to ever eat a banana 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:11.159 in front of a white person who doesn't appreciate the 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.200 fact that it's truly just a banana and a human 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.800 being eating it. I would be so I would be 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:20.720 so ashamed to do that right now, you know I would, 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:22.600 or else I would have to break a piece of 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.359 it off and eat it like this. I couldn't peel 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:26.679 it and hold it in the hand the way that 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.000 a person might imagine a monkey would do it. So 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.399 I want to get your reaction to this que because 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.639 I'm not sure how much of this you knew. I 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:38.679 know you knew about the watermelon song, but you know, 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:41.200 I want to get your thoughts. We got about four minutes. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.520 So once upon a time, during my residency at a 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:52.040 property I won't name, as I showed up to DJ 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.199 now at this place, the turntables, the DJ booth were 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.280 set up on a stage, and on that stage they 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.960 had created sort of like a little lounge for me, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.520 couches and the table, and I would come in and 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.639 my food would be there, my food and whatever I 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.880 wanted to drink for me and my guests, whoever came 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:13.719 with me. And the first time I showed up because 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.719 because I don't drink, I made food a part of 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:22.000 my writer instead of alcohol. And the first time I 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:26.040 showed up at this place where I was, you know, 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:33.920 in two thousand and maybe twelve or thirteen, the only 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.520 black person in the establishment. The food that was waiting 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.200 for me was fried chicken and watermelon. 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:41.879 Wow. 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.119 Now this was a really tough spot for me to 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:51.159 be in because, as everybody is that's listening to this 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:57.840 show knows, fried chicken and watermelon is incredible. It's delicious. 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:05.879 It's half nutrition, but mostly it's delicious, and similar to 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.440 what you just said, I'm on stage, so I don't 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.720 want to sit on stage in this venue full of 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.480 people that aren't black and eat chicken and watermelon on 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.440 stage like I'm the show, right, And. 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:23.399 I honestly don't think the chef meant for that. To 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:25.280 feel how it felt when I got there. 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:27.400 Okay, but as you. 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.560 Know, it absolutely felt exactly how you think it felt 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:32.879 when I walked into this place and they're serving me 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.040 fried chicken and watermelon. And my options were to laugh 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:41.800 really hard or start flipping tables over. So I chose 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.640 to laugh really hard. And similar to the racist portrayal 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.240 of watermelon, the foods in and of themselves are not racist, 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.160 but in Jim Crow America, in a way to make 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:57.080 newly free black people look like savage animals, there was 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.199 all these cartoons and caricatures and drawings and paintings that 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:06.400 showed us very delightfully and ostentatiously eating chicken and watermelon, 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:09.600 with the juices flying everywhere, and us in this delight 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:16.880 of carelessness, and as they would portray it somehow savagery. 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:21.480 And it wasn't that just that watermelon was inexpensive, but 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.919 it was what you touched on earlier. Watermelon at that 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:28.760 time gave us a way to grow something for ourselves, 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.080 to consume it, to sell it, to have some sort 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:39.800 of entrepreneurship, business acumen, and independence. So let's make that 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.920 bad too. Let's make that evil. Let's make that bad 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:46.160 Let's make that grotesque. Let's make that somehow beneath us, 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.320 and let's make fun of them, right, Let's exaggerate all 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:54.200 their features, and let's show the world how these savage 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:58.840 animals look when they're eating their chicken and watermelon, and 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:02.440 really make a show of it. So yeah, I mean, 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.280 I really am just echoing things that you've said already. 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:10.640 It's just food, and in this case, really really good food. Right. 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.000 Fried chicken might be the most sold food item on earth, 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.200 especially in this country, and we're thirteen percent of the population. 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.639 So please don't think it's just black people eating it. Right, 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:27.600 But that trope has lasted the test of time, as 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.959 have so many things from that period in our history 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:33.760 that was made to look that was created to make 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:38.960 us look beneath and somehow less than and somehow less 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:43.720 civilized and more savage and more simple, if you will. 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.280 Yeah, yeah, so I know exactly what you mean. You know, 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.960 there's it's come up before, and you know, I think 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.679 Dave Chappelle mentioned it. He's like, you know, all this 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:54.800 time I thought I like chicken because it was delicious. 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:58.359 Comes to turn out I'm genetically predisposed to lacking chicken 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:00.240 you know, like just to make a jump out of it. 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:02.400 So anyway, I'm glad we got a chance to touch 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:05.840