Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2: A lot of people, including my co host, called me
Speaker 2: q Ward and mostly that's because my name is Quentin,
Speaker 2: so Q is the short and then Ward is my
Speaker 2: last name. So that's just kind of how that whole
Speaker 2: thing came to.
Speaker 1: Be very thorough. Indeed, stick around today's episode. We got
Speaker 1: a lot of cool stuff to talk about, some things
Speaker 1: you might not know and that you might want to know,
Speaker 1: including the story about watermelons and their relationship to black
Speaker 1: folks in this country. We're going to ask the question
Speaker 1: are watermelons racist? Which I know, on his face sounds crazy,
Speaker 1: but trust me, it's worth exploring a little. Later in
Speaker 1: the show, we're going to talk about black church, which
Speaker 1: is not a subject that we get into too heavily
Speaker 1: on this show, but today it felt kind of important
Speaker 1: to reach out and or reach over into that subject matter.
Speaker 3: So today's show will be a look back a way
Speaker 3: black history fact show nearly in its entirety, if you will,
Speaker 3: so a lot to stick around for, but definitely a
Speaker 3: lot of knowledge, maybe some insight in some areas you
Speaker 3: may not have known about, and that's what we aim
Speaker 3: to do here, of course, each and every episode.
Speaker 1: Of City Cipher. But first and foremost, let's get into
Speaker 1: some Ebony excellence. So today's EBNY excellence, we are talking
Speaker 1: about a stamp that will honor the late civil rights
Speaker 1: leader John Lewis. So today's EBNY Excellence comes from Black
Speaker 1: Enterprise and it reads, he lived his life fighting for
Speaker 1: equality and human rights. Now his legacy and good trouble
Speaker 1: model will live on. The US Postal Service announced that
Speaker 1: it will circulate his stamp honoring the life and legacy
Speaker 1: of late civil rights leader John Lewis. According to Axios,
Speaker 1: the stamp will feature a photograph of Lewis that was
Speaker 1: captured by photographer Marco grobe or an issue of Time
Speaker 1: that was published on August twenty six, twenty thirteen. And
Speaker 1: here's a quote. Devoted to equality and justice for all Americans,
Speaker 1: Lewis spent more than thirty years in Congress, steadfastly defending
Speaker 1: and building on key civil rights gains that he helped
Speaker 1: archive in the nineteen sixties. Unquote. And that comes from
Speaker 1: the USPS. And here's a little bit more. Even in
Speaker 1: the face of hatred and violence, as well as some
Speaker 1: forty five arrests, Lewis remained resolute in his commitment to
Speaker 1: what he liked to call good trouble. And this one
Speaker 1: comes from Nikama Williams, who is the Democratic representative from Georgia.
Speaker 1: Linda Early, as a former chief of staff for Lewis,
Speaker 1: who now heads the John Lewis and Lillian Miles Lewis Foundation,
Speaker 1: embraced this announcement. Here's a quote fromer Lewis's face is
Speaker 1: the face to voting rights. Having an honor postage stamp
Speaker 1: honors Lewis and the movement which he led and in
Speaker 1: the process encouraged his voter participation, civic engagement, and getting
Speaker 1: into good trouble. That statement comes from NBC News. And
Speaker 1: as you know, Lewis died at the age of eighty
Speaker 1: and twenty twenty after long battle with acreatic cancer. The
Speaker 1: late American politician and civil rights activists was known as
Speaker 1: the Conscious of Congress for his unyielding battles racial equality,
Speaker 1: voting rights, and human rights. And of course, the John
Speaker 1: Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act that was passed in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one by the US House of Representatives is named
Speaker 1: after him as well. We like to take a moment
Speaker 1: around here to point out things that we feel are excellent,
Speaker 1: we feel are decidedly black, that need to be celebrated,
Speaker 1: that might be overlooked. And you know, at least in
Speaker 1: this arena, this moment John Lewis being honored with a
Speaker 1: stamp is something that we will stop and and and
Speaker 1: highlight and of course share with you. Now onward today
Speaker 1: we are going to talk about watermelons. That's that's a
Speaker 1: that's such a funny thing. Now, okay, let me paint
Speaker 1: a picture for you. So let's say you're not a
Speaker 1: black person, right, you might be thinking what's wrong with
Speaker 1: the watermelon? They grow out of the ground. It's food.
Speaker 1: Human beings eat food that grow out of the ground
Speaker 1: all over the world. That's kind of what we do.
Speaker 1: It's delicious. Yeah, how about that? You know, But as
Speaker 1: it turns out, you know, there are some things that
Speaker 1: exist in our world, by our I mean, you know
Speaker 1: black folks.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 1: Are really the legacy of a very hurtful relationship that
Speaker 1: black folks have had with this country going all the
Speaker 1: way back to the beginning, and they still persist to
Speaker 1: this day. And so recently I came across you know,
Speaker 1: I live in an older house. And you know, the
Speaker 1: people that owned this house before I bought it had
Speaker 1: some racist caricature black folks advertisements in the backyard, and
Speaker 1: I never discovered them. I lived here. This has been
Speaker 1: twelve years I've lived here. Never discovered them until recently
Speaker 1: because they're posted on to the back of a beam
Speaker 1: in my backyard. Anyway, I saw this stuff and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, you know, and and I saw, you know,
Speaker 1: there was a person, black skinned cartoon, big lips of course,
Speaker 1: and he has like a watermelon that's huge, and he's
Speaker 1: like smiling ear to ear, and I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what. At some point, I need to make sure
Speaker 1: that I discussed this with our listeners on the show.
Speaker 1: So a bit about certain types of foods. I'll tell
Speaker 1: a personal story. I might have shared a bit of
Speaker 1: this before, but for those that don't know, Once upon
Speaker 1: a time, I was working at a radio station in Phoenix, Arizona,
Speaker 1: and I was the production director of this radio station.
Speaker 1: And I worked in a studio that was separate from
Speaker 1: the broadcast studios. Right, So there was three studios, two
Speaker 1: for broadcast, excuse me, one for production where I made
Speaker 1: the radio commercials. I did the imaging. I basically made
Speaker 1: everything that wasn't a song or wasn't a jock talking live,
Speaker 1: and that was my job. Everyone knew that that was
Speaker 1: my studio, and I know it belonged to the station,
Speaker 1: but there were all my posters up in there, all
Speaker 1: my magazine covers, you know, because I was a jock too.
Speaker 1: But that was where I spent most of my my day.
Speaker 1: So wasn't there all the time. I had, you know,
Speaker 1: my creature comforts in there, and then whoever needed to
Speaker 1: come in the studio and use it with me, I
Speaker 1: was the one recording their voice. Outside of that, it
Speaker 1: was my studio. One day, I there was a recent
Speaker 1: changing of the guard at the radio station. And then
Speaker 1: you know, one day right after that, I walked into
Speaker 1: my studio and I saw a banana on the mixer.
Speaker 1: The mixer is the big sort of device with all
Speaker 1: the buttons and faders in a recording studio. So I
Speaker 1: had one of those as well because I had to
Speaker 1: you know, mix the mics and so forth. There's a
Speaker 1: banana sitting right on there. When I walked into the room,
Speaker 1: and immediately my heart sank and immediately I felt like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I don't know if I should be afraid, angry,
Speaker 1: you know what action I should take? How do I
Speaker 1: you know? Because this felt very personal. It felt like
Speaker 1: an attack on my character and who I am, and
Speaker 1: an attack on my ancestors. You know, it's just it's just,
Speaker 1: you know. And for those that don't know, walking into
Speaker 1: a studio and seeing a banana there, you would naturally
Speaker 1: think maybe somebody left their banana there. It never even
Speaker 1: entered into my mind. It never. When I saw that banana,
Speaker 1: I knew for a fact that somebody it might have
Speaker 1: been the owner, and somebody left that for me to see,
Speaker 1: because it was right there, right in front of my seat,
Speaker 1: right where I couldn't miss it. And you know when
Speaker 1: I say that, my heart sank, and that you know
Speaker 1: that gripping fear, that paralytic fear that you feel when
Speaker 1: you are walking down the street and you see like
Speaker 1: a vicious dog in front of you with no chain
Speaker 1: and no one around, like, oh my god, okay, I
Speaker 1: need to figure out what I need to do. It
Speaker 1: was that moment for me, and immediately I turned around
Speaker 1: even walk into the room, I turned right back around
Speaker 1: and let the door close, and I went into the
Speaker 1: program director's office, somebody who I felt like was a
Speaker 1: friend of mine. I still feel like that guy is
Speaker 1: a friend of mine. I didn't assume that it was him,
Speaker 1: so to help paint that picture. He was always a
Speaker 1: good man to me, you know, it felt like a
Speaker 1: good man. He felt like like an ally, like the
Speaker 1: sort of person that would listen to this show. So
Speaker 1: I went into his office and I says, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know what is going on here, but somebody
Speaker 1: just did something that was really out of pocket. And
Speaker 1: he's like, what are you talking about. I was like,
Speaker 1: come here, let me show you. And then he got
Speaker 1: up and he went and he saw it and he
Speaker 1: had no idea. He's like, what am I looking for?
Speaker 1: I'm like, do you see the banana there on the console?
Speaker 1: And then when I pointed it out to him because
Speaker 1: he had seen it. But when I pointed it out
Speaker 1: to him, he was like, uh oh, And he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is. I have no idea here.
Speaker 1: Let me get this out of your way, let me
Speaker 1: figure it out. Please don't worry about it. Right. So
Speaker 1: this is why I say I feel like he was
Speaker 1: a kind man. That was the reaction I would have
Speaker 1: expected from him. Not that I was expecting anything, but
Speaker 1: he just seemed like that sort of a person. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he took the banana and he kind of said some
Speaker 1: kind words to kind of provide a sense of like
Speaker 1: I'm going to protect you. You know, for those who
Speaker 1: don't know, a program director is the boss of my
Speaker 1: position at that time, which would have been a production
Speaker 1: director and a jock. So he goes to his office
Speaker 1: and he does a little bit of research, and maybe
Speaker 1: an hour later he puts it all together. He's like, hey,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, the morning show guy needed to
Speaker 1: go into this udo to cut a promo, so he
Speaker 1: used your studio to do it because he had to
Speaker 1: make way for the afternoon or sorry, the midday woman
Speaker 1: to do her show. So he used your studio and
Speaker 1: that was part of his breakfast and he just forgot it.
Speaker 1: And you know, he was riding his motorcycle that day.
Speaker 1: He just forgot it. He just grabbed his helmet and
Speaker 1: this and that and the third and he just left
Speaker 1: it there. I don't think that it was anything directed
Speaker 1: toward you, so all was right with the world. But
Speaker 1: I think that that story illuminates just how jarring hour
Speaker 1: meaning black folks relationship to food can be when it's
Speaker 1: observed through the lens of other races, and other races
Speaker 1: have the same type of these same types of issues.
Speaker 1: You know, foods are closely associated with culture, and if
Speaker 1: there's some way to pick on a culture, you know,
Speaker 1: usually it's it's the most obvious one, you know, physical features,
Speaker 1: with the way people dress, what they eat, and so forth. Right,
Speaker 1: But you know, this is so that we can explain
Speaker 1: our experience to folks who might not otherwise know. Now,
Speaker 1: that was a banana, and obviously, or maybe it's not
Speaker 1: so obvious. The connection there is that historically, based on
Speaker 1: bogus science that was used to further subjugate and to
Speaker 1: justify subjugate black folks and justify slavery, bananas were used
Speaker 1: to or black folks rather were associated with more closely
Speaker 1: with you know, apes and monkeys and things like this
Speaker 1: too kind of create a bit of a divide between
Speaker 1: real humans quote unquote and lesser beings so as to
Speaker 1: justify our servitude, you know, at that point in time.
Speaker 1: And so this is why you'll if you watch you know,
Speaker 1: soccer games, you know, World Cup, things like this. You know,
Speaker 1: if there's a black team or black player that's doing
Speaker 1: really well, you know, they'll throw bananas on the field
Speaker 1: because what they're trying to do is make a connection
Speaker 1: between black people and monkeys. And I'm not going to
Speaker 1: pretend like, you know, us having brown skin, and you
Speaker 1: know many of you know, many apes having you know,
Speaker 1: a brown color to their fur or whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's just a silly connection and a juvenile connection
Speaker 1: that people make, especially folks that wake up early in
Speaker 1: the morning, get dressed, pack a banana in their kit,
Speaker 1: and then go to the game with the specific intention
Speaker 1: of throwing it as soon as a black person, you know,
Speaker 1: scores a goal or whatever. So these things are based
Speaker 1: in history, so that you know, hence my reaction walking
Speaker 1: into my studio seeing banana. Now we're we could talk
Speaker 1: about malt liquor, we could talk about you know, fried chicken,
Speaker 1: you know, and and maybe on later shows we will,
Speaker 1: but you know, today the research was done on watermelon.
Speaker 1: So allow me to share one thing that I know
Speaker 1: to be true. And you and I've talked about this before. Q.
Speaker 1: There's a song, the ice Cream Truck song. Remember we
Speaker 1: talked about this, So the ice Cream Truck Song was
Speaker 1: called inWORD love a watermelon. So next time you hear
Speaker 1: the ice cream truck, you know, coming down the street,
Speaker 1: just know that the actual melody from that music was
Speaker 1: originally pinned in the title of that song was called
Speaker 1: in word love of watermelon. Now the name changed after
Speaker 1: that once the inn word fell out of fashion or whatever.
Speaker 1: But the reason that that song became associated with ice
Speaker 1: cream trucks is because once upon a time, you know,
Speaker 1: whenever there were treats given out, ice cream went to
Speaker 1: white folks and watermelon went to black folks because it
Speaker 1: was cheaper, you know whatever, And so it became known
Speaker 1: as like kind of the black man's or the black
Speaker 1: man's ice cream, you know, the negro's ice cream. And
Speaker 1: this is why you see these these caricatures, these these drawings,
Speaker 1: these cartoons, like the ones that I found in my backyard,
Speaker 1: these black folks holding a huge watermelon being so happy
Speaker 1: when they eat it. Right, It's like it was known
Speaker 1: as the equivalent of what ice cream would because many
Speaker 1: obviously many black folks back in this time never were
Speaker 1: able to taste ice cream because it was too much
Speaker 1: of a delicacy or otherwise it was too expensive. Watermelons
Speaker 1: were cheaper. But another thing about this is that and
Speaker 1: I pulled this from the Atlantic, there's an article written
Speaker 1: by William R. Black and I'll read this and I
Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts. Cue it goes. But the
Speaker 1: stereotype that African Americans are excessively fond of watermelon emerged
Speaker 1: for a specific historical reason and served a specific political purpose.
Speaker 1: This is an addition to, you know, white folks eating
Speaker 1: ice cream, black folks eating watermelon. So I'll continue. The
Speaker 1: trope came in full first when slaves won their emancipation
Speaker 1: during the Civil War. Free black people grew ate and
Speaker 1: sold watermelons, and then doing so made the fruit a
Speaker 1: symbol of their freedom. Southern whites, threatened by blacks newfound freedom,
Speaker 1: responded by making the fruit a symbol of black people's
Speaker 1: perceived uncleanliness, laziness, childishness, and unwonted public presence. This racist
Speaker 1: trope then exploded in American popular culture, becoming so pervasive
Speaker 1: that its historical origin became obscure. Few Americans in nineteen
Speaker 1: hundred would have guessed the stereotype was less than half
Speaker 1: a century old. And what they would do, And just
Speaker 1: so you know, watermelons have always just been associated with
Speaker 1: black people. It's been associated with other types of people,
Speaker 1: Arab people, you know, and and typically it's associated with
Speaker 1: poor folks. And you know, the way that it's been
Speaker 1: politicized is, you know, you're going to have, you know,
Speaker 1: watermelon rinds in your neighborhood all over the streets if
Speaker 1: you allow these folks to come in, or if you
Speaker 1: don't clean up this mess, or whatever the case is.
Speaker 1: But in this country, you know, this represented economic freedom
Speaker 1: or you know, economic advancement we'll call it. And poor
Speaker 1: Southern whites obviously didn't like that. Still don't you know,
Speaker 1: like that a lot if you know their voting records
Speaker 1: or anything to go by. And really, at that time,
Speaker 1: and I believe largely today as well, you can make
Speaker 1: a case for it really needed, really needed someone to
Speaker 1: blame their economic problems on. That wasn't the government, because
Speaker 1: how in the world could you criticize the government, you know,
Speaker 1: But let's blame these folks taking up all the jobs,
Speaker 1: you know, and doing whatever, selling their watermelons and making
Speaker 1: their little bit of money and creating some sort of
Speaker 1: economic independence from us, rather than coming to work for
Speaker 1: us or coming to you know, whatever it is, and
Speaker 1: so we end up with, now fast forward, the legacy
Speaker 1: of these ideas and the legacy of these stereotypes results
Speaker 1: in people nowadays eating watermelon, not in plain view of
Speaker 1: someone who might not appreciate the fact that it's just food.
Speaker 1: Now you listening, you might think, why in the world
Speaker 1: would I think anything other than it's just a food,
Speaker 1: And that's a person eating their lunch or whatever, which
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. And my hat's off to you because
Speaker 1: you've either managed to escape, you know, being indoctrinated in
Speaker 1: this way, or you know, you just maybe you really
Speaker 1: just don't see it that way. And maybe a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't see it that way, but there are
Speaker 1: some people that do see it that way. You know,
Speaker 1: we saw lots of these cartoons with you know, watermelon
Speaker 1: flavored toothpaste, you know, when Obama was in office, and
Speaker 1: you know, these things still exist. You know, they're they're
Speaker 1: deeply rooted in the American history and American legacy and
Speaker 1: American psyche, but they also exist for us, for black folks.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't, I wouldn't I. You know, banana
Speaker 1: is a banana. If you like bananas, that stands to
Speaker 1: reason other human beings or creatures that share this planet
Speaker 1: will like bananas too, Same with fried chicken, same with watermelon,
Speaker 1: same with anything. You know, We're all the same, you know,
Speaker 1: from a scientific standpoint, meaning that we all consume foods,
Speaker 1: eat them. You know, they nourish our bodies and they
Speaker 1: fortify us and allow us to live full lives. But
Speaker 1: far be it for me to ever eat a banana
Speaker 1: in front of a white person who doesn't appreciate the
Speaker 1: fact that it's truly just a banana and a human
Speaker 1: being eating it. I would be so I would be
Speaker 1: so ashamed to do that right now, you know I would,
Speaker 1: or else I would have to break a piece of
Speaker 1: it off and eat it like this. I couldn't peel
Speaker 1: it and hold it in the hand the way that
Speaker 1: a person might imagine a monkey would do it. So
Speaker 1: I want to get your reaction to this que because
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how much of this you knew. I
Speaker 1: know you knew about the watermelon song, but you know,
Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts. We got about four minutes.
Speaker 2: So once upon a time, during my residency at a
Speaker 2: property I won't name, as I showed up to DJ
Speaker 2: now at this place, the turntables, the DJ booth were
Speaker 2: set up on a stage, and on that stage they
Speaker 2: had created sort of like a little lounge for me,
Speaker 2: couches and the table, and I would come in and
Speaker 2: my food would be there, my food and whatever I
Speaker 2: wanted to drink for me and my guests, whoever came
Speaker 2: with me. And the first time I showed up because
Speaker 2: because I don't drink, I made food a part of
Speaker 2: my writer instead of alcohol. And the first time I
Speaker 2: showed up at this place where I was, you know,
Speaker 2: in two thousand and maybe twelve or thirteen, the only
Speaker 2: black person in the establishment. The food that was waiting
Speaker 2: for me was fried chicken and watermelon.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Now this was a really tough spot for me to
Speaker 2: be in because, as everybody is that's listening to this
Speaker 2: show knows, fried chicken and watermelon is incredible. It's delicious.
Speaker 4: It's half nutrition, but mostly it's delicious, and similar to
Speaker 4: what you just said, I'm on stage, so I don't
Speaker 4: want to sit on stage in this venue full of
Speaker 4: people that aren't black and eat chicken and watermelon on
Speaker 4: stage like I'm the show, right, And.
Speaker 2: I honestly don't think the chef meant for that. To
Speaker 2: feel how it felt when I got there.
Speaker 1: Okay, but as you.
Speaker 2: Know, it absolutely felt exactly how you think it felt
Speaker 2: when I walked into this place and they're serving me
Speaker 2: fried chicken and watermelon. And my options were to laugh
Speaker 2: really hard or start flipping tables over. So I chose
Speaker 2: to laugh really hard. And similar to the racist portrayal
Speaker 2: of watermelon, the foods in and of themselves are not racist,
Speaker 2: but in Jim Crow America, in a way to make
Speaker 2: newly free black people look like savage animals, there was
Speaker 2: all these cartoons and caricatures and drawings and paintings that
Speaker 2: showed us very delightfully and ostentatiously eating chicken and watermelon,
Speaker 2: with the juices flying everywhere, and us in this delight
Speaker 2: of carelessness, and as they would portray it somehow savagery.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't that just that watermelon was inexpensive, but
Speaker 2: it was what you touched on earlier. Watermelon at that
Speaker 2: time gave us a way to grow something for ourselves,
Speaker 2: to consume it, to sell it, to have some sort
Speaker 2: of entrepreneurship, business acumen, and independence. So let's make that
Speaker 2: bad too. Let's make that evil. Let's make that bad
Speaker 2: Let's make that grotesque. Let's make that somehow beneath us,
Speaker 2: and let's make fun of them, right, Let's exaggerate all
Speaker 2: their features, and let's show the world how these savage
Speaker 2: animals look when they're eating their chicken and watermelon, and
Speaker 2: really make a show of it. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I really am just echoing things that you've said already.
Speaker 2: It's just food, and in this case, really really good food. Right.
Speaker 2: Fried chicken might be the most sold food item on earth,
Speaker 2: especially in this country, and we're thirteen percent of the population.
Speaker 2: So please don't think it's just black people eating it. Right,
Speaker 2: But that trope has lasted the test of time, as
Speaker 2: have so many things from that period in our history
Speaker 2: that was made to look that was created to make
Speaker 2: us look beneath and somehow less than and somehow less
Speaker 2: civilized and more savage and more simple, if you will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I know exactly what you mean. You know,
Speaker 1: there's it's come up before, and you know, I think
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle mentioned it. He's like, you know, all this
Speaker 1: time I thought I like chicken because it was delicious.
Speaker 1: Comes to turn out I'm genetically predisposed to lacking chicken
Speaker 1: you know, like just to make a jump out of it.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm glad we got a chance to touch
Speaker 1: on that, and just something to keep in mind, you know,
Speaker 1: just something to be sensitive about, and you know, we'll
Speaker 1: get where we're going, so not not too much to
Speaker 1: worry about. But our job is to teach, so that's
Speaker 1: what we do.