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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Friday edition of Sunday with breaking news

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Speaker 2: from Russia, where Vladimir Putin announces Moscow has delivered its

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Speaker 2: first tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus, which of course shares

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Speaker 2: a border with Ukraine. He said he would do this

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Speaker 2: about three months ago, and here we are, and it

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Speaker 2: happens just as Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln prepares to

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Speaker 2: get on an airplane for a high stakes visit to Beijing.

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Speaker 2: White House Press Secretary Karine John Pierre.

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Speaker 3: It is responsible way we believe to manage tensions, clear

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Speaker 3: up misperceptions and miscalculations even and it is in our

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Speaker 3: interest to try and figure out a way to work together.

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Speaker 3: And this is what you're seeing. This is what you're

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Speaker 3: going to see from a Secretary Blincoln strip when he

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Speaker 3: heads out on Saturday.

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Speaker 2: A right State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller sharing very similar

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Speaker 2: talking points on the trip and how he put it.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, we have a competitive relationship with China. We have

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Speaker 4: a number of areas with which we disagree, but it's

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Speaker 4: important as two of the world's great powers, that we

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Speaker 4: have the ability to directly communicate with each other so

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Speaker 4: that competition doesn't veer into conflict.

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Speaker 2: You got it, competition, not conflict. But when you add

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Speaker 2: China's relationship with Russia, the war in Ukraine, the matter

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Speaker 2: of Taiwan, that concept gets a lot more complicated. Let's

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Speaker 2: talk about all of it for a moment with Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: national security expert Nick Watams. It's great to see you, Nick,

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Speaker 2: Thanks for coming in. What is this move from Russia

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Speaker 2: that sending nukes to Belarus, realizing that he did threaten

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Speaker 2: to do this. What's their delivery supposed to tell us?

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Speaker 2: What's the message?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, it doesn't appear that there's any actual

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Speaker 5: tactical or strategic utility to having these nukes there, because

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Speaker 5: Russia already has nukes in Kaliningrad, which is further west

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Speaker 5: than Belarus. So I mean, it strikes us, from what

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Speaker 5: we've spoken to US officials, as essentially a pure signaling move.

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Speaker 5: What we had heard from the administration in the last

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Speaker 5: several weeks was that they were adjusting their own risk calculus,

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Speaker 5: so where they had been really reluctant to provide heavy

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Speaker 5: weapons F sixteen's Bradley's Abrams tanks things like that, they'd say,

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Speaker 5: you know, we don't think the risk of escalation is

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Speaker 5: quite as great as it once was. We're going to

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Speaker 5: go ahead with that. Now Putin responding and saying, hey,

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Speaker 5: we're sending tactical nukes. It does sort of add to

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Speaker 5: the stakes, certainly. Though Secretary Blincoln did say today he

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Speaker 5: does not think Russia plans to use a nuclear weapon.

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Speaker 5: The US is also not adjusting its nuclear postures, so

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Speaker 5: that tracks with what we've seen throughout this conflict, where

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Speaker 5: Putin sort of dangles the threat of nuclear weapons. Obviously

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Speaker 5: moving them is a pretty big deal. The US is, hey, everybody,

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Speaker 5: let's try to stay home.

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Speaker 2: But the point is he's looking at Eastern Europe, not

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Speaker 2: Ukraine specifically with that moment.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you know, the US and Allied approach

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Speaker 5: to this conflict all along has been let's keep this

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Speaker 5: contained to Ukraine. We do not want this spreading into

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Speaker 5: a wider war. We do not want NATO to be

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Speaker 5: pulled in. That's why you've had so much wariness and

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Speaker 5: reluctance over sending some weapons systems directly from NATO or

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Speaker 5: having them fly missions, for example, from NATO. They do

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Speaker 5: not want this pulled into a wider war. Putin has

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Speaker 5: gone the other way, saying, hey, you guys, this is

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Speaker 5: the risk I am. What you're doing risks bringing in

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Speaker 5: this broader war. So him moving tactical nuclear weapons to

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Speaker 5: a country that is outside of the zone of conflict,

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Speaker 5: it does seem to push that one step further.

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Speaker 2: Wow, This, of course all against the backdrop of Ukraine's

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Speaker 2: counter offensive. And now the trip to Beijing. Nick, does

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Speaker 2: this impact the agenda at all for Anthony Blinken as

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Speaker 2: he goes to Beijing.

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Speaker 5: Well, certainly it is going to raise the stakes for

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Speaker 5: what Beijing has been trying to do, which is play

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Speaker 5: some sort of constructive role, or so they say. The

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Speaker 5: US says it hasn't actually been that constructive to try

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Speaker 5: to reach some diplomatic solutions. So you can expect Blincoln

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Speaker 5: to put new pressure on China to in turn exert

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Speaker 5: pressure on Vladimir Putin to say, hey, you know, knock

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Speaker 5: it off, Let's let's wrap this thing up. Let's try

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Speaker 5: to get to the negotiating table, so it's going to

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Speaker 5: be part of the discussion. But he's got a whole

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Speaker 5: other issue there, which is the US says it's seen

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Speaker 5: signs that that China may be preparing to provide military

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Speaker 5: aid of its own to Russia. So he's going to

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Speaker 5: be telling him, you know, you do not do that.

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Speaker 5: Yesterday or the day before, Blincoln said they need see

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Speaker 5: no sign yet that China had taken that step of

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Speaker 5: providing military aid.

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Speaker 2: But it's a big concern still in the air. They

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Speaker 2: still they do.

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Speaker 5: It's you know, and they are seeing some evidence that

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Speaker 5: shows Chinese companies are providing aid via you know, circuitry

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Speaker 5: and parts for drones that go in that are produced

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Speaker 5: in Iran and are then shipped to Russia. So there's

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Speaker 5: a there's a supply chain issue there, but they say,

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Speaker 5: so far they don't see any direct Chinese government involvement.

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Speaker 5: That's going to be a big issue for Blincoln.

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Speaker 2: So who gets blown back in this meeting. Is Anthony

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Speaker 2: Blink going to get an earful on Taiwan or is

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Speaker 2: China going to get an earful on Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's happening on Chinese soil, So that's a big

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Speaker 5: you know, China has a big strategic advantage there. You know,

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Speaker 5: we are not going to see a lot of the conversation.

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Speaker 5: So if you remember back when when Biden came into office,

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Speaker 5: they had these meetings in Alaska where they opened the

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Speaker 5: initial meeting to the cameras and it got really fiery,

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Speaker 5: super testing between the two sides. China is not going

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Speaker 5: to allow that to happen this time. They're not going

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Speaker 5: to see that advantage. Blinken will be tough, but you

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Speaker 5: can expect he's going to get an earful that. You know,

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Speaker 5: the Chinese side are masters at these sort of conversations

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Speaker 5: and they're going to lay into him. He's going to

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Speaker 5: play ball too, but you know they're going to be

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Speaker 5: very deliberate about making sure this does not go in

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Speaker 5: front of the cameras.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, this is going to be quite a report

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Speaker 2: for the boss when he comes home. Yeah, Nick, thank you,

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Speaker 2: great work and great reporting. Always a pleasure to have

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Speaker 2: Nick Watams Bloomberg National Security reporter. You know, we spoke

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Speaker 2: earlier today on Bloomberg TV with Ram and Manuel, of course,

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Speaker 2: our ambassador to Japan, who weighs in on the matter

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Speaker 2: of deterrence when it comes to.

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Speaker 6: Taiwan, deterrence is an important element, and the United States

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Speaker 6: is active with that with our allies, which is our

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Speaker 6: most important level of deterrence. It's not just in military equipment,

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Speaker 6: it's in diplomatic work, economic investment and development and combination

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Speaker 6: with the region. And the one thing I do know

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Speaker 6: from being here is that all the countries in the

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Speaker 6: region are desperate for America's leadership.

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Speaker 2: Let's add the voice now of Anna Ashton, the director

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Speaker 2: of China Corporate Affairs at the Eurasia Group. Anna, it's

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Speaker 2: great to have you back on Bloomberg. We're hearing about

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Speaker 2: a lot of goals when the White House talks about

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Speaker 2: the purpose of this trip. How do you see it?

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Speaker 2: What's the takeaway that Anthony Blincoln needs to show for

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Speaker 2: it to be a success?

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Speaker 7: Thanks? Jo, Well, I think you know. On the one hand,

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Speaker 7: it's a success that it is even scheduled. On the

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Speaker 7: other hand, our expectations at Eurasia Group that this will

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Speaker 7: produce any sort of deliverable are quite low. The White

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Speaker 7: House hasn't even really mentioned verbal other than you know

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Speaker 7: what Sullivan has said about vigorous communication right go with

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Speaker 7: vigorous competition. At the reality is that the relationship has

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Speaker 7: been in dire streets really for some time. There was

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Speaker 7: there were hopeful signs last November when Biden and She

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Speaker 7: agreed to try to work together to stabilize the relationships.

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Speaker 7: That kind of went out the window with the spy

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Speaker 7: balloon in February, and now we're finally looking at what

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Speaker 7: the Biden team wants to call us aw and and

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Speaker 7: you know that's borne out by a series of meetings

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Speaker 7: culminating with this high level meeting. That's that's important to

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Speaker 7: have happened, but it's not entirely a thaw. I mean,

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Speaker 7: just for example, we have really serious communication breakdown on

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Speaker 7: the military to military side, and we have had a

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Speaker 7: couple of near collisions in recent weeks.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have. It's been getting dangerous. And we just

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Speaker 2: heard from Anthony Blink in a story that just crossed

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Speaker 2: the terminal here at Bloomberg. He says his China trip

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Speaker 2: is aimed at lowering the risk of conflict. And is

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Speaker 2: this competition not conflict getting a little cute for you

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Speaker 2: because we've been hearing it for a long time from

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Speaker 2: this administration and it's not getting better.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, I think both sides want it to

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Speaker 7: be competition, not conflict. But the problem is that there

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Speaker 7: are conflicting strategic priorities and interests. And therefore, you know,

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Speaker 7: there are moves that the US is making that are

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Speaker 7: supposed to be about forwarding US competitiveness that China seedes

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Speaker 7: as undermining its economy and undermining its own national interests.

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Speaker 7: And there are moves that China is making that the

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Speaker 7: United States used as incredibly threatening to long term US

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Speaker 7: interests in the Pacific, but that China uses fundamental to

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Speaker 7: its natural interests.

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Speaker 2: You might have heard earlier. We spoke with Ambassador Ram

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Speaker 2: Immanuel today on Bloomberg TV, and he talked about the

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Speaker 2: sort of control that President she holds over his country,

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Speaker 2: and I thought his choice of words was fascinating. Listen

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Speaker 2: to how he put it.

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Speaker 6: Nobody's as good at containing China as President. She look

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Speaker 6: at the economy under President President she twenty percent unemployment

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Speaker 6: among youth, a housing economy. So to me, she has

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Speaker 6: done an incredible done more work in containing China and

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Speaker 6: affecting China's rise economically.

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Speaker 2: And as we consider the idea of a new stimulus

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Speaker 2: in China, does that only get stronger?

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Speaker 7: You know, this is a really interesting question to the

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Speaker 7: stimulus you don't expect would be anywhere here we saw

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Speaker 7: in twenty twenty or twenty twenty two, it would be

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Speaker 7: it would be much smaller than that because because the

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Speaker 7: Beijing leadership is still then emphasize that they'd like to

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Speaker 7: rely on a rebound in demands, they haven't really seen

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Speaker 7: that rebound continue as strongly in Q two as they were.

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Speaker 7: But you know, there's no doubts the economy has flowed

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Speaker 7: as as ambassadoram Emanuel said, but it hasn't stood simply

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Speaker 7: be pits of steady. It's also stood because I think

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Speaker 7: kind of approachicos where a developing economy transitioning to developed

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Speaker 7: economy starts to see the income trap and they're trying

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Speaker 7: to transition to higher value, quality over quantity growth model.

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Speaker 7: They're also trying to balance security interests against economic one.

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Speaker 7: So I guess I think it's more complicated than how

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Speaker 7: I put it, But I give him credit that he

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Speaker 7: has a point.

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Speaker 2: Your line's breaking up just a little bit, honestly in

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Speaker 2: and I'm hoping that we can we can we can

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Speaker 2: keep this conversation going because this is the important stuff here.

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Speaker 2: The idea of a I believe was it a tenth

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Speaker 2: of a point of an interest rate cut yesterday? How

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Speaker 2: much of this is messaging versus China actually caring about

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Speaker 2: goosing the economy.

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Speaker 7: I think I think it can be both at the

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Speaker 7: same time. Yea, it is messaging. But the big thing

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Speaker 7: that China needs to do to help boost the economy

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Speaker 7: is reassure consumers so that they can fuel greater demand.

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Speaker 7: I mean, if consumption starts to bounce back, then meeting

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Speaker 7: the five percent goal for growth this year shouldn't be

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Speaker 7: a problem. That's a conservative goal. It was set at

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Speaker 7: a conservative point on purpose in order to try to

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Speaker 7: reach it without needing a stimulus. If they can reassure

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Speaker 7: consumers that they're really doing what's necessary to stimulate the economy,

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Speaker 7: then they should be signed.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're talking about our economic relationship. How much should

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Speaker 2: Secretary blink and prepare to hear about the high tech

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Speaker 2: that we're not allowing China to have. You know, they'd

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Speaker 2: love to have a contract going with Nvidio, which is

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Speaker 2: now the hottest stock on the planet, because everything is

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Speaker 2: about AI and they can't get their hands on those

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Speaker 2: cards because we won't let them have it.

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Speaker 7: This is this is the central store point for China

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Speaker 7: in the bilateral relationship right now now, and it is

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Speaker 7: the most inflexible thing on the US side. You know,

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Speaker 7: the US is really trying to ensure that it has

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Speaker 7: controls around sensitive technologies that might give China an edge

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Speaker 7: militarily and has It's a difficult time to have a

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Speaker 7: narrow scope for that because there's so much that it's

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Speaker 7: dual used. But at the same time, you know, some

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Speaker 7: of the talk around limiting experts of larger legacy chips

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Speaker 7: to China, for example, really gets at what their ambassador

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Speaker 7: to the EU called, you know, their fundamental ability to

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Speaker 7: have a thriving industrial base because so much of what

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Speaker 7: is made today relies on chips, relies on that technology.

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Speaker 7: So if we cut them off from the old stuff,

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Speaker 7: we're really you're we're really hitting them harder than maybe

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Speaker 7: it's necessary.

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Speaker 2: Enter Bill Gates, of course, the Microsoft co founder, meeting

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Speaker 2: with President she in Beijing. And how about this quote

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Speaker 2: from She You are the first American friend I've met

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Speaker 2: in paging this year, Did Bill Gates and you're looking

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Speaker 2: at they're laughing and scratching together. Did Bill Gates just

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Speaker 2: make it easier or more difficult for Anthony Blincoln.

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Speaker 7: Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Bill Gates talked to

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Speaker 7: the White House before taking this trip, and you know,

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Speaker 7: tried to set us the stage for constructive communication between

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Speaker 7: Lincoln and whether it's she or somebody else.

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Speaker 2: Who he meets with.

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Speaker 7: But you know, I don't think it helped or harmed

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Speaker 7: necessarily the agenda. It's just it's an interesting data point

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Speaker 7: in it underscores. I mean, this is the latest in

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Speaker 7: a series of CEOs visiting China and meeting with senior

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Speaker 7: government officials. Bill Gates is first meeting with the most

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Speaker 7: senior government official. Doing so in his capacity is out

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Speaker 7: of the foundation. Yeah right, But there was Tim Cook,

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Speaker 7: there was Jamie Simon, there was Elon musk Well.

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Speaker 2: But that's the thing. How come she didn't say that

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Speaker 2: about Elon musk.

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Speaker 7: Well. I see that the relationship between Bill Gates and

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Speaker 7: and a number of different Chinese leaders who stuck further

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Speaker 7: and deeper because Microsoft has been in the market for

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Speaker 7: so long.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the first American friend I've met in Beijing this year?

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Speaker 2: What will he say about Secretary Blincoln? Anna, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for coming to talk to us great conversation

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Speaker 2: as we look ahead of the trip. Anna Ashton is

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Speaker 2: Director of China Corporate Affairs at the Eurasia Group. In

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Speaker 2: a perfect voice to get us rolling here on a Friday,

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Speaker 2: you know what's next. We assemble the panel. This is

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Speaker 2: a good one. Lisa Camuso Miller is with us along

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Speaker 2: with Lincoln Mitchell, as we try to make sense of

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Speaker 2: it all going into an important weekend for geopolitics. I'm

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Speaker 2: Joe Matthew in Washington. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to

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Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays

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Speaker 2: at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, Tune in alf Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: dot Com.

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Speaker 8: And the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: So you wonder if Bill Gates will grease the skids

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Speaker 2: for Anthony Blincoln. Yeah, Microsoft, Bill Gates over there in Beijing.

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Speaker 2: As we were discussing with Anna Ashton and President she

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Speaker 2: calling him not just a friend, but the only friend,

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Speaker 2: the first American friend he's met in Beijing this year.

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Speaker 2: We assemble our panel on the day that Anthony blinkoln

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Speaker 2: gets on a plane for China, knowing as well that

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Speaker 2: our top story today Russia transferring nukes to Belarus, complicating

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Speaker 2: the conversation just a bit, which is why we're lucky

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Speaker 2: to have Lisa Camuso Miller with us, the former RNC

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Speaker 2: Communications Director, partner at RESET Public Affairs, joined today by

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Speaker 2: Lincoln Mitchell, political analyst lecturer at the School of International

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Speaker 2: and Public Affairs at Columbia University. Also writes a popular

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Speaker 2: substack on Pops and Baseball, Yes called Cabitzing with Lincoln.

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Speaker 2: Great to have you both here. Thank you for having

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Speaker 2: me always. It's been too long, Lincoln, Thanks for coming in. Lisa,

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Speaker 2: I don't know your thoughts on this trip to Beijing.

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Speaker 2: Is the whole idea that Anthony Blincoln goes over there

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Speaker 2: and gets beat up so Joe Biden doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: when they meet, Well.

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Speaker 9: It seems that way, Joe. I mean the thing about

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Speaker 9: having spent some time at the Commerce Department myself. I

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Speaker 9: spent three weeks in China and was participated in some

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Speaker 9: of these meetings that happen between the two countries. And

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Speaker 9: the one thing that just keeps striking me in all

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Speaker 9: that I read is the differences in culture, and Lincoln's

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Speaker 9: going to have way more experience in this space than

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Speaker 9: I do. But I will say that, yes, that that's

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Speaker 9: exactly what it feels like. This is about that. Blincoln

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Speaker 9: will go, he will talk to the folks in China.

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Speaker 9: He will come back and report on what he's learned.

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Speaker 9: China will change their mind or not change their mind,

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Speaker 9: because China is hard to nail down regardless. And I

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Speaker 9: think that the other thing too is that you know,

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Speaker 9: there's so many different conversations that are happening around China

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Speaker 9: this point between what the administration wants to do with

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Speaker 9: the White House wants to accomplish, what the Hill wants

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Speaker 9: to accomplish. That there's a lot of competing interests, but overall,

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Speaker 9: the goal is to make sure that national security is

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Speaker 9: the priority in all of this.

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Speaker 2: Lincoln, the Secretary of State, says today, the trip is

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Speaker 2: to make sure there are the rivalry between our two countries,

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Speaker 2: between the US and China, does not erupt into open conflicts.

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Speaker 2: That's not a very high bar. But is that really

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Speaker 2: where we are?

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Speaker 10: The short answer is yes, that is exactly where we are.

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Speaker 10: And while it's not a high bar. It's an enormously

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Speaker 10: important bar. And you know, I've been following China US

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Speaker 10: relations certainly since I lived in China the late nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 10: so and I've not seen a moment where so many

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Speaker 10: people on both sides of this are speaking openly about

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Speaker 10: the possibility of war between the two countries. And you know,

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Speaker 10: we should pause just a moment there in recognizing that

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Speaker 10: any kind of significant military conflict between our country and

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Speaker 10: China would be devastating. It would have a devastating number

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Speaker 10: of civilian casualties, it would be devastating for both countries,

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Speaker 10: devastating for all the countries around there, and for the

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Speaker 10: global economy. So to keep the dialogue open that seems

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Speaker 10: to me to be the major goal that can happen

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Speaker 10: on the trip. We're not going to solve any problems,

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Speaker 10: We're not going to come to any major agreements, but

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Speaker 10: just being able to keep talking with somebody like she

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Speaker 10: who is, you know, a pretty nasty dictator, but unfortunately

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Speaker 10: that that's who's leading China, and that dialogue has to

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Speaker 10: exist because the conflict has to be avoided.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of Corporate America leading on this? Lisa?

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Speaker 2: I mentioned Bill Gates, but he's just the latest. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we just ran through a list of names here, including

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk, Jamie Diamond. They've all gone I don't want

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Speaker 2: to say they kiss the ring, but they've They've traveled

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Speaker 2: around the world to sit down with China and underscore

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Speaker 2: the importance of our economic relationship. Are we going to

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Speaker 2: have a split screen here where corporate America has a

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Speaker 2: good relationship with Beijing and our government does not. Is

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Speaker 2: that possible? I hope not.

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Speaker 9: I mean, it feels like it could be could be

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Speaker 9: headed in their direction. But look, business is seeing this

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Speaker 9: as an opportunity. This is a market, a big market

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Speaker 9: within to do business, and so if we can find

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Speaker 9: a sweet spot and a place where we can get

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Speaker 9: to doing business with China that's not in conflict with

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Speaker 9: national security, then we could very much be in sync

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Speaker 9: with the government and the corporate side of the world.

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Speaker 9: That said, I still do think that we're in a

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Speaker 9: place now where there are a lot of competing interests

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Speaker 9: and it's going to be very difficult to get all

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Speaker 9: of that together, to thread that needle and do it

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Speaker 9: in a way that doesn't have repercussions. So to me,

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Speaker 9: it feels like there ought to be a way where

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Speaker 9: the government can lead and corporates corporations can follow, But

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Speaker 9: you and I both know that that's not necessarily how

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Speaker 9: it goes.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing this makes the White House a little bit nervous, Lincoln,

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Speaker 2: because the administration, with the support of Congress, by the way,

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Speaker 2: this is not really a part is an issue, has

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Speaker 2: been clamping down on the availability of of high tech

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Speaker 2: for the most part, but also other ways to sort

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Speaker 2: of decouple our corporate relationship with China, how do.

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Speaker 10: These two drive, Well, it's going to be very difficult.

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Speaker 10: You know, the bilateral relationship, particularly but not only, but

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Speaker 10: particularly with regards to economy is so intertwined. Right during

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Speaker 10: the financial crisis of two thousand and eight, we have

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Speaker 10: this term too big to fail, and that is true

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Speaker 10: to some extent of the economic relationship between these two countries.

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Speaker 10: And corporate America gets that. It's not only that they

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Speaker 10: see opportunities to make money, and of course many of

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Speaker 10: them do, but they're already deeply entwined with China and

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Speaker 10: so and whereas the politics, you know, corporate leaders they

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Speaker 10: don't care so much about human rights abuses in the

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Speaker 10: countries where they do business. They may not care so

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Speaker 10: much about saber rattling with regards to Taiwan. Something that

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Speaker 10: China saber rattling I'm talking about there, something that I

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Speaker 10: think I assume that people on both sides of the Island,

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Speaker 10: Congress and in the White House understand as a very

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Speaker 10: serious national security issue. So they have a very different

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Speaker 10: set of interests and managing that has has always been

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Speaker 10: a challenge of whatever present. But corporate America they need

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Speaker 10: this relationship. There's money to be made there, but there's

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Speaker 10: also competition there, and it is a real I think

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Speaker 10: we've seeing a divergence of interests and at a time

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Speaker 10: when the power of global corporations is greater than it's

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Speaker 10: ever been. So it's not like these are whereas in

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Speaker 10: China the powerful corporations are essentially answerable to the Chinese government.

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Speaker 10: It's not the way it works here in the United

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Speaker 10: States or with most of our outlets.

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Speaker 2: One of our producers was asking, how excited must China

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Speaker 2: be about all these fresh treasury bonds being printed right now? Lisa,

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Speaker 2: aren't we making them for them?

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Speaker 9: Well, I mean, it feels a little bit like that,

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Speaker 9: and certainly I bet that they are. Look, China is

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Speaker 9: going to be regardless of what our moves are. They're

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Speaker 9: going to be thrilled that we're talking about them, right,

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Speaker 9: because that makes them relevant, That keeps them relevant. They're

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Speaker 9: huge on the globe, and so that alone, I think

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Speaker 9: is an indication that there's a willingness and there's a

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Speaker 9: desire to figure this out way that I hope is

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Speaker 9: mutually beneficial, as.

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Speaker 2: Opposed to when they come to cash them all in Lincoln.

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Speaker 2: China likes to think that it has the keys to

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Speaker 2: unlock peace in Ukraine. I'm sure this will be discussed

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Speaker 2: with the Secretary of State. But peace to whose benefit.

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Speaker 10: Well, peace to China and Russia's benefit, I mean to

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Speaker 10: cut to the chase. China's vision of peace and Ukraine

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Speaker 10: is very similar to Vladimir Putin's vision of peace in Ukraine. Yeah,

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Speaker 10: that is a position that the Zelenski government, the Biden government,

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Speaker 10: most of Congress would disagree with very strongly. And I'm

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Speaker 10: using polite language there. So I don't see China currently

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Speaker 10: playing a constructive role in peace process. Doesn't mean it's impossible,

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Speaker 10: but what they're doing is in my view not productive there.

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Speaker 2: Nick Wadams told us a bit earlier this hour that

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Speaker 2: the administration is getting more worried all over again about

438
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: the idea of China providing lethal weapons to Russia and

439
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: in fact might have arranged so this this system where

440
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: they're sent chips to be used in drones that Iran

441
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 2: is making to attack Ukraine. Lisa that that doesn't sound good, No.

442
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 9: And Joe, the most ridiculous comment I saw today was

443
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 9: that Putin said that he doesn't want the whole world

444
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 9: to be frightened. But how in the world could we

445
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 9: not right, I mean, how in the world could we

446
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 9: possibly not.

447
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: Be Yeah, what do you make of that idea? Lincoln?

448
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 2: As China talks peace but in fact couldn't be helping Ukraine,

449
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 2: helping Russia arm for its fight against Ukraine as this

450
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: Kunter offensive gets going.

451
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 10: When this war started back, you know, a year and

452
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 10: change ago, many in the in the academic academy, and

453
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 10: in the media discussed it as a proxy war between

454
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 10: Russia and the US because the US was so strongly

455
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 10: supporting Ukraine. I don't think that's the best way to

456
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 10: understand this. For quite some time now, this has been

457
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 10: a proxy war between the United States and China, even

458
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 10: if China does nothing more. Their support for Russia militarily

459
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 10: but really economically has allowed Russia to continue to prosecute

460
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 10: this brutal war against Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. So

461
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 10: I would be very I am very concerned that China

462
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 10: will step up at support for Russia, which will allow

463
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 10: the war to go on, which will result in more

464
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 10: deaths and more brutality right the hands of the West

465
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 10: military in Ukraine.

466
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 2: A lot of us thought we had gone beyond that, Lisa,

467
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: that that wasn't a concern anymore. A lot of folks

468
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: thought it wasn't even real to begin with. Would China

469
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: go there?

470
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 9: It certainly more and more feels that way, Joe. I mean,

471
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 9: it's it's certainly been the other thing too. And like

472
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 9: I said, you know, Lincoln has a background here where

473
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 9: he could probably validate this. But it seems to me

474
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 9: like everything that we read when this first started was

475
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 9: that China was going to sit back and watch and

476
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 9: see how this went and how the world reacted, because

477
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 9: they've also got an interest in Taiwan. And that's the

478
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 9: other piece of this whole discussion, is that, you know,

479
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 9: does this empower China to do what they want? To do,

480
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 9: and I think that that seems more and more real

481
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 9: as the two of these global powers team up.

482
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,239
Speaker 2: You can expect we'll be talking a lot about this

483
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: early next week when b Lincoln returns, and as I

484
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, he's going to have a heck of a

485
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 2: report to deliver the Boss when he does get back.

486
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: Lisa Camuso Miller and Lincoln Mitchell are great panel back

487
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: with more as we turn our focus to twenty twenty

488
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 2: four in a week we may all look back on

489
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: as being pivotal in this race.

490
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

491
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

492
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

493
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

494
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: I think we can confirm now that the state of

495
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: Florida is in fact the center of the political universe.

496
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the home of course, right, Donald Trump,

497
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: there's your front runner, then there's Governor Ron De Santis,

498
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: and now the mayor of Miami jumps in. As we

499
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 2: told you yesterday, I'm still doing my pushups. I have

500
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: to catch up on my sit ups because Francis Suarez

501
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 2: is running.

502
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 8: I have always been a runner. It's the best place

503
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 8: to charge my body.

504
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and clear my mind and add that Donald Trump,

505
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: Ronda Santis, Joe Biden could never make But it makes

506
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: you wonder what the motivation is here, because, of course

507
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: now there's a lot of speculation that Francis Sworez might

508
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: be helping Donald Trump to cut things up in Florida,

509
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: siphon votes away from Ronda Santis and enhance Donald Trump's

510
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 2: forward position. I wonder what the panel thinks about that?

511
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: Am I getting too conspiratorial? Lisa Camuso Miller is with us,

512
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: the former communications director of the RNC, partner at RESET

513
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: Public Affairs, joined today by Lincoln Mitchell Political Analysts lecture

514
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: at the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia University.

515
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: Did that thought cross your mind?

516
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 7: Lisa?

517
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: Is that crazy?

518
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 9: I mean, nothing's crazy, but I do think that he

519
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 9: Nobody runs for office without expecting that they are a

520
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 9: legitimate candidate, Like nobody, regardless of where we all sort

521
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 9: of put people in the in the you know, the

522
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 9: Rubik's cube of politics. No one gets into this race

523
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 9: without expecting that they could do it right. So as

524
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 9: much as I think Suarez actually sees an opportunity here.

525
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 9: I mean the mayor. To me, everything that I've read

526
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 9: and understand is that he's a rising star and he's saying,

527
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 9: maybe it's my time to be in the mix. I mean,

528
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 9: everybody else is in Florida anyway.

529
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: So you have to think pretty highly of yourself to

530
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: look at these polls with the two other guys from

531
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: Florida and come to that assumption, don't you. I mean,

532
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: I realize everyone thinks they're a winner in politics, but

533
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 2: some folks could also be running for four years from now,

534
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: right Lincoln.

535
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 10: Well, you know, Pete Boudha Judge was the mayor of

536
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 10: a much smaller town and he parlayed, he parlayed, you know,

537
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 10: some pretty good finishes in a much more open field

538
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 10: into being a cabinet secretary and somebody who would be

539
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 10: on anybody's short list for future Democratic nominees. And since

540
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 10: he's so young, we could be looking for at least

541
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 10: a couple decades out. So a politician running now, for

542
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 10: the most part, there's not that much of a downside. Yeah,

543
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 10: you can you can do terribly like Eric Swallwell and

544
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 10: just go back to the House of representatives or like

545
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 10: Rand Paul on the Republican side, some people you know,

546
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 10: embarrass themselves, don't even meet expectations, say really, you know

547
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 10: things things that just kind of damage them. But for

548
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 10: the most part, you raise your national profile, you build

549
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,239
Speaker 10: out your your fundraising base. There's no question that at

550
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 10: some point when Donald Trump is no longer you know,

551
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 10: the kind of sun around which the GOP politics revolves,

552
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 10: that they're going to say that that the that a

553
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 10: Latino candidate from Florida with some national experience will look

554
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 10: like a very strong candidate for Senate, governor or even

555
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 10: the presidency down down the line. So you know, there's

556
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 10: there's a logic to it. You know, he and I

557
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 10: turns out we have something in common. Neither of us

558
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 10: are going to be the Republican nominee for president in

559
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 10: twenty twenty four.

560
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: You're selling yourself short again, like he is a healthy man. Though, Lisa,

561
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: we've talked a lot about the anatomy of the political ad.

562
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: This kind of gives the anatomy new meaning. Here with

563
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 2: the super tight shirt, the six pack gabs, he's walking

564
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: around just the right amount of sweat on the brow.

565
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: Here are we just reminding everybody, how old these other candidates.

566
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 9: Are, well, yeah, no doubt, and how unhealthy a lot

567
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 9: of these guys are too.

568
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's politics.

569
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 9: I mean, so welcome to the race, mayor.

570
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: You know.

571
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 9: But the other thing too, that that to me struck.

572
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 9: He has been hinting that this is an interest of

573
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 9: his for some time. But when when the president former

574
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 9: president came away from the courthouse in his motor cade

575
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 9: and arrived at Versailles and was surrounded by Republican Republican

576
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 9: supporters largely huge Cuban population. If you've been to Versailles,

577
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 9: you know that it is just it's a place to go,

578
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 9: a political stop. But that room was packed. And if

579
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 9: you're the mayor and you're not someone who has a

580
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 9: federal indictment and other long list of things that make

581
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 9: it unpalatable for you to be a candidate, perhaps saw

582
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 9: that as an opportunity because there is a tremendous base

583
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 9: of Cuban Americans and Hispanic Americans that are not only

584
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 9: in Florida, but all across the South and all across

585
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 9: the country that really are a voting they're a voting

586
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 9: bastion that really there's access there that I think that

587
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 9: the mayor is probably seeing an opportunity in a way

588
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 9: to speak to those people that maybe other candidates cannot.

589
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: I don't know if we're believing reports that he didn't pay.

590
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: He walked in and said, food into Versailles is god.

591
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: I could taste the Cubanos right now, Lincoln food all around,

592
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: he said, for everybody, And the key left in the

593
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: campaign is helpers left. Nobody paid the bill.

594
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 10: Well, that's very appropriate in a party where Donald Trump

595
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 10: is the front runner, right, I mean I'm in a

596
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 10: city where I still encounter lawyers who he owes money too,

597
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 10: So maybe that's just how you run for president. On

598
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 10: the Republican side, I would point out that Ronda Santis

599
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 10: also has that generational difference, right, I mean, Ronde Santis

600
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 10: was a pretty good college athlete. He looks like he's

601
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 10: in good shape. So there are I think a number

602
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 10: of candidates on the Republican side that are trying to

603
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 10: show that contrast. But I agree for the mayor, this

604
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 10: is a long game that makes some sense. You know,

605
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 10: there is this large latting of It's an important swing,

606
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 10: growingly important swing both the Republicans that they can get

607
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 10: forty percent nationwide are very much in play, and in

608
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 10: a handful of state it's very important in primary, so

609
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 10: it kind of makes sense. On the other hand, you know,

610
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 10: this is there, we're talking about the trees. The forest

611
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 10: here is still that Donald Trump has a huge lead

612
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 10: in the primary. The latest news about the indictment does

613
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 10: not seem to have changed that. Rond De Santis, who

614
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 10: was kind of the cause celebra of the non Trump

615
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 10: people coming out of last year's midterm, the t twenty

616
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 10: two midterms, hasn't really moved on that. So this is

617
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 10: still Trump's to lose, and I think he's got a

618
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 10: very good shot of being the nomin knee. I mean, certainly,

619
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 10: as you know, politics are like baseball games. It gets

620
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 10: laid early out there, and this campaign is no longer

621
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 10: so early that somebody with a thirty point lead can

622
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 10: be dismissed altogether.

623
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: New poll out and put some numbers on it. The

624
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: messenger Harris x boy Trump fifty three, Desanta seventeen, Pence six,

625
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: Scott four, Hailey three, Ramaswami two, Christy two, Younkin and

626
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: Hutchinson both at one. Of course, Len Younkin not running.

627
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: Bergham has zero. I don't see the name Suarez on here.

628
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: That happened too recently, Lisa. When you look back to

629
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: this time in twenty fifteen, it was Jeb Bush up

630
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: a top, followed by Scott Walker. A guy named Donald

631
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: Trump was around four percent at this time. What's this

632
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: going to look like in a year? Oh boy?

633
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 9: If I had an answer to that, Joey'd be vacationing

634
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 9: somewhere far away with our families.

635
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: You're right, of course, that was totally unfair, even though

636
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: I'd love to let you answer that, maybe just to

637
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: be more efficient. Do you think it will look like

638
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: that in a year? I do not.

639
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 11: I do not.

640
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 9: I think that there is a general sense amongst independence

641
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 9: and Republicans that have a that are starting to see.

642
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 9: As much as the numbers did not change after the

643
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 9: indictment was real on Tuesday, I think that people are

644
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 9: still starting to say, how in the world could we

645
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 9: nominate someone for the party that is has been indicted,

646
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 9: that has so many distractions. Let's set aside all of

647
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 9: the opinions we have about what has happened. Can you

648
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 9: imagine how difficult it would be to govern if all

649
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 9: of these distractions are in your way and the answer

650
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 9: is that it would be impossible.

651
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: This is a beindus of back when Remember he was

652
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: calling Hillary Clinton the compromise candidate for the exact same reason.

653
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: He said she'd be too bogged down by legal challenges

654
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: to do her job. Great panel, Lisa, thank you, Lincoln,

655
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: thank you. Have a great weekend. I hope it's a

656
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: long one for both of you. Lisa Camusso Miller and

657
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: Lincoln Mitchell. On sound On, This is Bloomberg. You're listening

658
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the program live

659
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app,

660
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot Com.

661
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 8: And the Bloomberg Business App.

662
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: Also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

663
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven.

664
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: We talked about a lot of heady issues here on

665
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: sound On. That's our job, right, issues from geopolitics to

666
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: elections to water pressure. We just turned this on. Seems

667
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 2: to be a growing obsession with water pressure here in Washington,

668
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: as the Biden administration and the Department of Energy proposed

669
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: a rule on dishwashers. I know we're in the shower,

670
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 2: but bear with me. A new efficiency standard here would

671
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: limit dishwashers. This is kind of nice. Actually it's pretty wrong.

672
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: Let's past that would limit dishwashers to only three point

673
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 2: two gallons per cycle. Senator John Kennedy, the Republican from Louisiana,

674
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: brought his concerns about this directly to the Senate floor.

675
00:34:54,320 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 12: You have to pre wash the dishes, I mean the

676
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 12: whole purpose of a dishwasher. If you don't pre wash

677
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 12: the dishes, half the gravy is still going to be

678
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 12: on the plate after the first run.

679
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: You know what he's talking about.

680
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 12: And so that leaves families with a choice. Yep, you

681
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 12: can run the machine the dishwasher twice, which uses twice

682
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 12: as much water in order to get your dishes clean.

683
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 12: So you have to hand wash.

684
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: Your dishes half the gravy with the smell of jambalaya.

685
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 12: Now, the Department of Energy itself admits that twenty percent

686
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 12: of families who own a dishwasher never use it. Why

687
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 12: is that? It's not because dishwashing is fun, true, it's

688
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 12: because they don't want a taste last night's jambalayah in

689
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 12: their morning chariot.

690
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: See not that this is new, it's an obsession shared

691
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: by the form presents.

692
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 13: So inelegant to talk about it, right, isn't.

693
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: It an elegant Well, I'm talking about dishwashers, wish waters.

694
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: He has a lot to say about dishwashing. Dishwashers. They

695
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 2: have dishwashers. They don't give you any water. They give

696
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: you not enough water, so they allows eating. So what

697
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: do people do? They press the button again and again.

698
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 8: No water.

699
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: I let them have lots of water. Let them have

700
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: lots of washer of water, would wash the dishes and

701
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 2: see it was a major campaign theme in twenty twenty.

702
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: Dishwashers.

703
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: I didn't have any water.

704
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 14: So you the people that do the dishes, Yes, you

705
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 14: press it and it goes again.

706
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: Pressing it. I need to get some shampoo. Hour two

707
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: of sound On starts right now.

708
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 8: You're listening to the.

709
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at

710
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in alf, Bloomberg

711
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: dot Com, and.

712
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 8: The Bloomberg Business App.

713
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

714
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: flagship New York station.

715
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty and welcome to

716
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: our to a Bloomberg sound On. I'm Joe Matthew at

717
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: Washington along with Kaylee Lions, who's had a heck of

718
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: a week, because well, I guess everybody has in this

719
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: town this week. You've been to Miami and back. You've

720
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: been on Capitol Hill last night, looming large at the

721
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: African American Museum, in a special event here at Bloomberg

722
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: for new Voices in Kaylee, it's nice to see you.

723
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: Happy Friday, you're still standing.

724
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 15: Indeed, thank you very much.

725
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: See about bank executives at the end of this week

726
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: as well, because that's what we want to talk about here.

727
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: Knowing that you joined us here in Washington like the

728
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 2: day after the failure of SVB, and we've gotten pretty

729
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: comfortable with things since then. It was the biggest deal

730
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: in the world. There were a series of hearings that

731
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: came a bit late, some proposals by the FED others

732
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 2: surrounding the FDIC, But essentially, Kaylee, nothing has really happened

733
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 2: save a few more bank failures, but there is it

734
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: seems to be a renewed effort to try to clamp down,

735
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: maybe add some regulations or some punishments for executives who

736
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: drive banks into the ground.

737
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 15: Yeahs. At this point that the regulatory side is just

738
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 15: going to be the regulators tighting things up. That there

739
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 15: isn't a legislative desire to put into law stricter regulations.

740
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 15: You just wouldn't find really bipartisan support for that. I think.

741
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 15: So you'll see the tightening on the regulation side. But

742
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 15: when it comes to some other measures like clawing back

743
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 15: executive compensation, that is where it seems we finally have

744
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 15: coalesced around some bipartisan support. Of course, it's taken what

745
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 15: three months and a lot of hearings for lawmakers to

746
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 15: get to this point. And I would note that we

747
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 15: kind of have two things going on at once here.

748
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,439
Speaker 15: Of course, overnight was announced the chairman of the Banking Committee,

749
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 15: Senator Shared Brown from Ohio, as well as the ranking member,

750
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 15: Senator Tim Scott, are going to be marking up their

751
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 15: own legislation next week.

752
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about this. We've got two now,

753
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 2: well at least two. You tend to think the chairman

754
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: ranking member might have an advantage on this. Here's the

755
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: aforementioned Shared Brown.

756
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 8: We're close to agreement.

757
00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 14: It will be all about accountability and it will clawback

758
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 14: some amount of money that bankers, and we hope their

759
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 14: boards that at least the leaders on their boards have made

760
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 14: from this often incompetence, sometimes corrupt behavior.

761
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: Somebody needs to keep closing the door there. So look now,

762
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: now we've got their two is sent. They're very similar

763
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 2: pieces of legislation. One is just tougher than the other, right,

764
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: and that would be Elizabeth Warrens.

765
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 15: Correct also a member of the Senate Banking Committee and

766
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 15: one of the more powerful progressive voices in the Senate.

767
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 15: And I would note her bill does have bipartisan support

768
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 15: as well. She worked on that with Republican Senator Josh

769
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 15: Holly of Missouri, and we've caught up with her about

770
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 15: her efforts as well. A few weeks ago we spoke

771
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 15: to her in the Senate hallway.

772
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 16: We're pushing a clawbacks bill that is bipartisan. I'm doing

773
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 16: it with a lot of Democrats and a lot of

774
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 16: Republicans to say, at a minimum, we will no longer

775
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 16: have these executives of big banks able to reward themselves

776
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 16: for blowing up banks.

777
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: Now, that's called the Failed Bank Executives Clawback Act, which

778
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: leaves little to the imagination. And she's got a whole

779
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: bunch of Republicans on this thing. Jd Vance? Yeah, how

780
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: do I just want to know how these meetings originally

781
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: take place? How does Elizabeth Warren end up in a

782
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: room or did she with JD Vance? Is it not

783
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 2: people who would be waving at each other otherwise?

784
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 8: Right?

785
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 15: Of course it takes a lot for them to agree.

786
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 15: And yet this does seem to be an issue where

787
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 15: we have found some level of agreement. Though now perhaps

788
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 15: it becomes a matter of disagreement when you want to

789
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 15: accomplish the same thing, but you want to do it

790
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 15: with varying levels of intensity, and obviously the chairmen and

791
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 15: the ranking member are trying to do something in a

792
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 15: more moderate fashion.

793
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: Theirs is the Recoup Act. Yes, what's the big difference here?

794
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: Because you know Elizabeth Warren would tell you that that's

795
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 2: a watered down version. It would allow the FDIC to

796
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: claw back incentive base pay over a twenty four month period,

797
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 2: where Warrens would just take all their money.

798
00:40:58,920 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 8: Is that?

799
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 15: Well, the word you just said there was allow in

800
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 15: the Brown Scott drafted legislation. In Warren's bill, it would.

801
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: Require it's a mandate. It is their money.

802
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 15: And I think that's the key difference also in terms

803
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 15: of the duration of time we're talking about the years

804
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 15: of the compensation which would be reclawed reclaimed. Not sure

805
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 15: what the correct verb use is there, but in Warren's

806
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 15: bill it's longer. It would go back to three years

807
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 15: of compensation. The Brown Scott plan would only go back

808
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 15: to got.

809
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: It okay, I feel it. Point I don't know. I'd

810
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: love to see some polling around these, because bank executives

811
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: are not popular right now, that a lot of people

812
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: would support the more strict version. But you know I'm

813
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: casting about here. Keith Neeka has to have some ideas

814
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 2: on this right back with us from Potomac Global Partners,

815
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 2: the Executive VP and Chair of Banking Supervision and Regulation

816
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: at Potomac. Keith, it's great to have you back. Your

817
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 2: thoughts on this does either ring true or have a

818
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,959
Speaker 2: better chance of success in your eyes?

819
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 17: Well, look, I think well, first, thank you for having

820
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 17: me back. It's always always great to talk to you

821
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 17: about what's going on in banking regulation here in Washington. Look,

822
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 17: the rules for bank executives and bank boards are already

823
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 17: incredibly stringent. In nineteen eighty nine, Congress enacted a law

824
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 17: of the Financial Institutions Recovery and Enforcement Act, which really,

825
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 17: you know, put the pedal to the medal of fines

826
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 17: that these bank executives are potentially subject to, including up

827
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 17: to a million dollars a day. So you know, the

828
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 17: rest of this seems a little bit of window dressing

829
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 17: to me. Taking away someone's compensation if you're going to

830
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 17: find them a million dollars a day for three years already,

831
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 17: it seems somewhat academic, right, because they'll probably be bankrupt

832
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 17: at that point. And I think the real issue and look,

833
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 17: as you said, bank executives aren't very popular. But on

834
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 17: the other hand, it's some point someone's gonna need bank,

835
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 17: someone to run banks, and who the heck's gonna want

836
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 17: to do it?

837
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 8: Right?

838
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 17: I mean, Fyria already imposed unlimited liability on ensure depository

839
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 17: institution directors, So think about that. No insurance policy can

840
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 17: guarantee you all of your assets are at risk. And

841
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 17: to me, the proof is really in the pudding. Is

842
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 17: you know, is the FDIC going to go after politically

843
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 17: connected bank executives and directors like Barney Frank or Mary

844
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 17: Miller on the SVB board. I mean, the proof is

845
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 17: in the pudding I mean it seems a Washington game

846
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 17: just to jack up a ton of rules and then

847
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 17: not apply them to your friends. And so I think,

848
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 17: you know, we may see you know, some bipartisan agreement here,

849
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 17: it could even get signed into law, but you know,

850
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 17: we have a lot of rules that were in place

851
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 17: that weren't at all enforced.

852
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 15: Well, so, Keith, sorry to jump in here, are you

853
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 15: effectively saying that it might not have the desired effect

854
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 15: in terms of actually changing the behavior of bank leadership.

855
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 17: Well, I think, if anything, it had scared people away, right.

856
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 17: I mean, I'm a consultant now, and people, you know,

857
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 17: it's easy to be a consultant because I don't have

858
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 17: any responsibility, but I can help guide you know, behavior.

859
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 17: But I mean, at what point do you need like

860
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 17: a judgment proof person to be, you know, running a bank,

861
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 17: Because there's all downside and no potential upside. So again,

862
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 17: there's going to be a larger societal problem because it's

863
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 17: a great campaign issue. But the penalties are already pretty strict.

864
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 17: And if you have a choice to go into banking

865
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 17: or private equity, you know you might choose private equity.

866
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: Well I wonder if as well, if this begins to

867
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: alter the structure. Kiley of bank executives pay. The recoup

868
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: acts would would not go so far as the Warren

869
00:44:55,239 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 2: Holly Bill because it would essentially cover the Warren Honeybill

870
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: would cover all pay, including salary. The other would be

871
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: more focused on bonus pay on an incentive pays. So

872
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: depending on which bill, let's say it's the recoup Act,

873
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, all of a sudden, everybody's got a fat

874
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: salary and no bonus, so they can't go after the money.

875
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: Is that going to be part of the issue here

876
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: in your view.

877
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 17: Keith, Yeah. I mean there's a lot of incentives and

878
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 17: perverse incentives that I would say would result from this.

879
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 17: And you know, I mean, in some ways you want

880
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 17: incentive compensation, right, because you don't want people to have

881
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 17: to be paid fat salaries without producing anything. On the

882
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 17: other hand, incentive compensation is inherently dangerous, right because it

883
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 17: can if it's not designed exactly correctly, it will lead

884
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 17: to wrong incentives that may endanger the safety and soundness

885
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 17: of the institution. So very hard. I mean, I think

886
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 17: the way things are set up now is, you know,

887
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 17: if you breach your duty, if you engage in activity

888
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 17: that results an unsafer, unsound practice to an institution. You're

889
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 17: subject to these you know again up to a million

890
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 17: dollar a day penalties. That pretty much focuses the mind

891
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 17: with unlimited liability. If you're also then going in and saying, well, geez,

892
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 17: then you have to do it for free. You know

893
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,959
Speaker 17: that you may not get any takers. So I think

894
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 17: ultimately that may be the you know, the the the

895
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 17: calculus of the other side that that people are on

896
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 17: the hill are going to have to confront. It's a

897
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 17: great political issue now. But what I would say is

898
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 17: like focus on the here and now, like let's send

899
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 17: send the fd I see off to the former executives

900
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 17: and directors of the failed banks that have cost so

901
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 17: much money, and have them tell us where they come

902
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 17: up short. Because you know, the system has been in

903
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 17: place for years, it's been used very well, it has

904
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 17: stringent finds. Why is it not enough? No one's told

905
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 17: me that other than it's a good political exercise to

906
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 17: cover up for bad regulatory accountability.

907
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 15: Well, the subject of regulators and their accountability, what they

908
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 15: need to do. I at that event, Joe was speaking

909
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 15: about at the top of the hour a New Voices

910
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 15: event last night, caught up with Ray MacGuire. He was

911
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 15: now conversation the president of Lazard, but he has long

912
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 15: been one of the most senior black executives on Wall Street.

913
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 15: He's been in and around finance for literally decades. Of course,

914
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 15: was It City for many many years before running for

915
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 15: mayor and then ultimately ending up at Lazard. And I

916
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 15: talked to him about a whether or not he thought

917
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 15: more bank failures could be coming and be what the

918
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 15: appropriate regulatory response should be. And this is what he.

919
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 18: Said, before the great financial crisis we had, I'm going

920
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 18: to get to an athletic term. We didn't have enough

921
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 18: referees on the feld. Post a great financial crisis, we

922
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 18: had too many referees on the field. So we need

923
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 18: to strike a balance. I think relaxed a little bit.

924
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 18: I think we can tighten it up a little bit.

925
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 15: So he said, tighten it up a little bit. But

926
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 15: Keith to kind of turn away from the congressional side.

927
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,479
Speaker 15: On the regulatory side, it feels like Michael Barr wants

928
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 15: to tighten it up a lot.

929
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 17: Well, I mean it's a matter of focus, right, I mean,

930
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 17: when I read the Bar report, there's so many things

931
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 17: going on. It's like you know, making you look at

932
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 17: the dashboard and all your controls and not giving you

933
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 17: a chance to look out the windshield and you drive

934
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 17: into a wall. And so you know, this is the known, known,

935
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 17: this is entirely foreseeable crisis. This is you know, something

936
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 17: the regulator should have been shouting about but weren't. So

937
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 17: you know, I don't tightening it up, you know, like

938
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 17: I give Ray a lot of like leeway there, but

939
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 17: like I do think they need to up up their

940
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 17: game for sure that you know, they've been talking about

941
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 17: very exotic issues like climate change and cryptocurrency when they

942
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 17: should have been talking about things like credit losses and

943
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 17: interest rate risk.

944
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 15: Well, and Keith, as we talk about tightening things up,

945
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 15: we're still waiting for that Basil three end game to

946
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 15: come down. What do you think is going to look like?

947
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 17: Well, look, I think you know it's in the works

948
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 17: a long time. I think it's probably going to look

949
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 17: like it's been forecast, know, and now it's the time

950
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 17: to do it is to you know, I don't think

951
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 17: the banking industry is going to get any breaks, nor

952
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 17: should they. I think the real challenge is how you

953
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 17: implement it and over what time frame because there are

954
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 17: not a lot of buyers for a bank capital at

955
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 17: the moment.

956
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: One of the other things that I was compelled by

957
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: last night and hearing your conversation with Ray MacGuire was

958
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: whether this is over yeah, And he did not say yes.

959
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: He actually said, I would not say that we're out

960
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: of the woods. We still need to monitor this, Keith.

961
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 2: We're not still worried about another bank failing.

962
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 8: Are we?

963
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 18: Oh?

964
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 17: Absolutely? I mean I think you know, you're just through

965
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 17: the known knowns, right, Like you haven't gotten to the

966
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 17: normal part of a bank.

967
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: Were you watching what kind of bank?

968
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 17: Well, I mean I think I'm looking for any bank

969
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 17: with high commercial real estate exposure, right, And even the

970
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 17: Chairman of the FED said in the last few days, right, like,

971
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 17: that's that's a definite weakness. It's the question of how

972
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 17: dispersed it is in the marketplace. But that you know,

973
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 17: I mean, normal banking crisis ma manifest themselves through weaknesses

974
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 17: and assets on a bank's balance sheet and and the

975
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 17: loan assets. And and we haven't even gotten there yet, right,

976
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 17: We're just with with marketable security. So so I think

977
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 17: like I'd be on on very high alert, you know,

978
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 17: for for these high exposures, high credit concentrations. Can those

979
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 17: be lessened in any ways? And I'm sure sure the

980
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 17: regulators are working over time to look at those and

981
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 17: and find ways perhaps to diversify that risk among institutions

982
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 17: to stable ze them.

983
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 15: Okay, Keith, not exactly making us feel feel better on

984
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 15: this Friday, but the rest of the year are we

985
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 15: We appreciate your time, nonetheless, Keith Andraka, executive vice president

986
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 15: and chairman of Banking Supervision and the Regulation Group at

987
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 15: Potomac Global Partners, and of course the former acting director

988
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 15: of the OCC as well. So I guess Joe he

989
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 15: agrees we aren't out of the woods.

990
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 2: And what's that going to look like if we are

991
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 2: actually heading into a recession that the first half of

992
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: next year, this conversation could get a lot more complicated. Indeed,

993
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: speaking of which, we dig into what the heck happened

994
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 2: on the campaign trail this week, how Donald Trump is

995
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 2: more powerful with an indictment, and where Joe Biden is

996
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 2: heading on the campaign trail. That's next on sound on

997
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast.

998
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 2: Catch us Live weekdays at one.

999
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the

1000
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get

1001
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: your podcasts.

1002
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 2: Will we look back on this week as the pivotal

1003
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: moment in the campaign. You're not going to know until, well,

1004
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: it's too late, because you're in the middle of it

1005
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: right now. This is the eye of the storm. But

1006
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: to think we had an historic indictment, a federal indictment

1007
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 2: of a former president this week and we're just moving

1008
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: on into a long weekend, Kaylee Lyons, is incredible.

1009
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 15: Yeah, this is America.

1010
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 2: You were in Miami for it, one of the many

1011
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: stops you've made this week in the news world, and

1012
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: we just went to Versailles and moved on. If that

1013
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: was anyone else, yeah, guess that the campaign conversation would

1014
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 2: have been a bit different.

1015
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 15: But I will say Joe Miami was very eye opening

1016
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 15: as to why we don't see an indictment and arraignment

1017
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 15: of Donald Trump, in particular denting his popularity because this

1018
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 15: base of support that he has, the kind of people

1019
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 15: that showed up at the courthouse and I spoke with,

1020
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 15: firmly believe in him. They believe what he says, and

1021
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 15: they do believe that he is being unjustifiably targeted by

1022
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 15: the Justice Department, and in this two tiered justice system,

1023
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 15: they believe that this is politicized and being weaponized against him.

1024
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: Truly, we've spent the balance of this week talking around

1025
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 2: this idea of a double standard. You get a different

1026
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: answer from everybody you ask, although I will say legal

1027
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: experts have been very consistent in drawing a real line

1028
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 2: between the Trump case and Joe Biden's case. For documents,

1029
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: for instance, New Paul out today the Messenger Harris Acts.

1030
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 2: You see these numbers, Trump fifty three, Desantas seventeen, Pence six,

1031
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: Scott four, Hailey three, Ramaswami two, Christy two Youngkins not

1032
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: even in this race, and he's tied with Asa Hutchinson

1033
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: at one. Bergham has Jipogo, and I guess they're all

1034
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: coming to town next week. It's going to be really

1035
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 2: interesting a week from today for this big evangelical conference

1036
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 2: at the Washington Hilton, and we have a great panel

1037
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 2: here to talk about all of this stuff. Nancy Cook

1038
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: is with US Bloomberg, Senior national political correspondent and Mike Dorning.

1039
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: By the way, Nancy just back from Bedminster. You guys

1040
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: had both ends of that story cover. Mike Dorning is

1041
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: with us too. Bloomberg, a deputy editor for our White

1042
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 2: House coverage, covers national politics as well. Great to have

1043
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,919
Speaker 2: you all with us here, Nancy. I'm just brought back

1044
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 2: this week time and again to that line. And by

1045
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: the way, this is the eighth anniversary of the Escalator.

1046
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: Do you guys know that the Golden Esclator.

1047
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 19: I've forgotten about that.

1048
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: Oh God, how our lives changed that day. But he

1049
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 2: said shortly thereafter, Nancy, that he could go out on

1050
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: Fifth Avenue shoot somebody and it wouldn't make a difference.

1051
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 2: And it's really starting to feel like, you know, we

1052
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: we kind of laughed at that as well, of course,

1053
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: but it really is starting to feel like that is

1054
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: more true than ever, and.

1055
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 19: We just are seeing that in poll after poll. There's

1056
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 19: a new poll that came out this afternoon from NPR,

1057
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 19: A PBS News Hour, and Marist, and it said nearly

1058
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 19: two in three Republicans and Republican leaning independents, so that

1059
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 19: sixty four percent still plan to support Trump. I mean,

1060
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 19: that's just like, you know, a huge majority, even after

1061
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 19: we've seen all these other candidates get into the race.

1062
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 19: They've been to South Carolina, Iowa, New Hampshire. Like, we're

1063
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 19: still just really seeing him as a dominant figure. And

1064
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 19: I would argue that because he has faced legal challenges

1065
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 19: so many times, two impeachments, this is his second indictment,

1066
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 19: although this is a federal one. They kind of the

1067
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 19: Trump people have this playbook at this point as to

1068
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 19: how they deal with these events, these legal problems. They

1069
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 19: fundraise off of them. You know, he paints himself as

1070
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 19: a victim and he actually gets more support and so

1071
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 19: it's it's like turn into a playbook almost for success

1072
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 19: for him.

1073
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,439
Speaker 15: So if it's a net positive for Trump Mike, does

1074
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 15: that just make it a net negative for everyone else

1075
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 15: as we think about the other indictments that could potentially

1076
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 15: come down from another federal one or in the state

1077
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 15: of Georgia, is that like a nightmare for everybody else

1078
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 15: in the GOP primary.

1079
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 20: I actually think in the long term the indictments are

1080
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 20: real risk for him. In the short term, it's a

1081
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 20: really tough thing for his potential competitors, not only because

1082
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 20: of the rallying around Trump, but perhaps even more damaging

1083
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 20: crowds them out at a point in which they need

1084
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 20: to define themselves. If you take someone like DeSantis, for instance,

1085
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 20: he really didn't get in until kind of late, and

1086
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 20: Trump had been defining him. DeSantis is this crazzy, pudding

1087
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 20: finger guy who fights with Disney, and now he is

1088
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 20: unable to get traction to try to define himself. So

1089
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 20: in the short term, I think this is even worse

1090
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 20: for Trump's competitors than it is good for Trump. In

1091
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 20: the long run, though, these doubts may creep in and

1092
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 20: people may start to say, hey, we want to beat

1093
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 20: Biden and Trump is damaged, but that would take some time.

1094
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: We talked a bit yesterday and earlier in the program

1095
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: here Nancy about the candidacy of Francis Suarez, the mayor

1096
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: of Miami. It's been a ledged knowing he has a

1097
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 2: former Trump official on board his campaign here basically running

1098
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 2: his campaign, that this is somehow a conspiracy to bump

1099
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 2: ron DeSantis out of You get another Florida guy, bump

1100
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: out Rob as Donald Trump calls him, and I don't know,

1101
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 2: end up as maybe a cabinet official or something. Is

1102
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: that an insulting take on a campaign that just launched

1103
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 2: twenty four hours ago or sounds like reality.

1104
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 19: I mean, I think it's certainly a possibility. I don't

1105
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 19: have any sort of concrete evidence of it, but I

1106
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 19: do think it's interesting. Helly and Conway has been helping him.

1107
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 19: You know, she is a former top Trump official. She

1108
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 19: remains in the former president's good graces. She is helping

1109
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 19: the Miami mayor and so, you know, sort of make

1110
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 19: the rounds and get to know people. And so I

1111
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 19: definitely think that, you know, he's a young guy that

1112
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 19: being the Miami mayor is a part time job. So

1113
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 19: I think that he's definitely positioning himself. You know, he

1114
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 19: doesn't seem like he's probably gonna get the nomination, but

1115
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 19: he could definitely raise his profile and end up in

1116
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 19: a cabinet if there's a Republican president.

1117
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 15: And of course he's trying to make it known to

1118
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 15: everyone that he is young Joe in his announcement video,

1119
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 15: which is just him on a long run throughout Miami.

1120
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: I've admitted that I know that's a.

1121
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 19: Real Miami thing, though. I mean, I feel like when

1122
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 19: I'm down there, I'm likes you. Donald Trump, you know,

1123
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 19: go from drinking too much coffee to green juice in

1124
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 19: one time.

1125
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 15: Fair enough, although I will say you could not pay

1126
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 15: me money to run around Miami after the heat I

1127
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 15: experienced on Tuesdays.

1128
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 2: Now, that T shirt was pretty tight. I think he

1129
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 2: was working pretty hard to show us that he had

1130
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: a very sharp physique. And some others in this race.

1131
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, not, but it do when we're talking about the

1132
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 15: people that are in this race in the state of Florida,

1133
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 15: however hot it is, we are now talking about three

1134
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 15: Florida men in this race. Are we gonna have to

1135
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 15: just spend a lot more time there going forward? It

1136
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 15: feels like it's the political I've.

1137
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 19: Already been spending like quite a bit of time there.

1138
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 19: Welcome to my life. There are worse places.

1139
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: Well, that's for sure. Although we'll ask you that again

1140
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 2: in August. I have I have to ask you both

1141
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 2: about Joe Biden. He's kind of back on the campaign trail.

1142
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: He's got this trip to Connecticut here. Mike Dorning, do

1143
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 2: you remember in the throes of covid we actually have

1144
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 2: we have to put our brains back then, Remember the

1145
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: drive in rallies, they had the big circles in the field.

1146
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 2: You put your car and everyone's hawking their horn. Joe

1147
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 2: Biden has not actually run a full on, you know,

1148
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 2: full length presidential campaign with all the in person rallies

1149
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: and the retail campaigning. Really ever, does he have the

1150
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 2: stuff to do at this time?

1151
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 20: Yeah, and that has been a weakness for him, even

1152
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 20: when he did run for president prior times and didn't

1153
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 20: get a nomination. You don't remember like stadiums and people

1154
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 20: cheering Joe Biden in two thousand and eight Obama, it

1155
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 20: was Hillary Clinton. He does have experience on the trail,

1156
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 20: he does have experience in these front of these audiences,

1157
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 20: but it's it's never been a particularly strong suit for him.

1158
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 15: But can he raise money in this process? I'm just

1159
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 15: wondering what the donor race is looking like here. Obviously

1160
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 15: on the Republican side, there's a lot of competition. Biden

1161
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 15: doesn't really have that.

1162
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 20: Yeah, he'll be able to raise enough money for a campaign.

1163
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 20: And he's also got I was interested today when the

1164
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 20: University of Michigan consumer sentiment survey came out. He's also

1165
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 20: got a bit of wind at his back. In terms

1166
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 20: of the economy. Americans expectations of what they think inflation

1167
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 20: is going to be like for the next year have

1168
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 20: really gone down a lot and that tells you that

1169
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 20: in consumer's psychology, they're kind of moving beyond this inflation,

1170
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 20: which was a huge, huge problem for Joe Biden. Now

1171
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 20: he may wind up having a recession, but for the

1172
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 20: time being, he's getting behind one of his huge anchors.

1173
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: It's just not showing up in his approval ratings. Nancy,

1174
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 2: we were talking to Mitch Landruw about this the other night.

1175
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 2: Your low forties still and Democrats say, hey, what's the problem.

1176
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 2: We've got a great story to tell. We got all

1177
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 2: this stuff past last year. The job market is still

1178
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: incredibly resilient. You expect retail sales to go down, they

1179
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: still go up. Shouldn't that result in better polling.

1180
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 19: I think this White House has always really struggled to

1181
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 19: sell its accomplishments, even before campaign season. You know, they

1182
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,439
Speaker 19: Biden has never had a high approval rating.

1183
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 10: You know, the.

1184
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 19: Majority of Americans and polls cannot name a single one

1185
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 19: of his accomplishments. No one gives some high marks for

1186
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 19: the economy, even though the unemployment rate is low, although

1187
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 19: inflation's a problem. So the salesmanship has just been a

1188
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 19: huge problem for him, and I think part of that

1189
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,439
Speaker 19: stems from the fact that you know, Obama was such

1190
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 19: a movement figure. Trump is such a sort of a

1191
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 19: movement figure. These are politicians who really command such loyalty

1192
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 19: among their base, and I just don't think people feel

1193
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 19: that way about Biden. And I think that that is

1194
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 19: going to be, you know, an issue for Democrats because

1195
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 19: they're going to have to get people to the polls

1196
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 19: and they're going to have to, you know, make sure

1197
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 19: the Democrats turn out if they want to be the

1198
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 19: Republican nominee, who it seems like it's going to be Trump.

1199
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: Come to get some surrogates out there, Kayley, because lock

1200
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 2: is ticking. Indeed, it is great conversation. Nice to see you, Nancy,

1201
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 2: and thank you so much for you. We try to

1202
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 2: grab Nancy when she's not in Florida for conversations like these.

1203
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 2: Nancy Cook and Mike Dorning a part of our great

1204
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 2: team covering the campaign trail here and will be over

1205
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 2: the course of the next year. I'm Joe Matthew along

1206
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 2: with Kaylee Lines in Washington, and we want to get

1207
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 2: an update on the news now World National Headlines with

1208
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 2: Nancy Lyons and the Bloomberg ninety nine one news room

1209
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: in washing and Hin Nancy.

1210
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

1211
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

1212
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com.

1213
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 8: And the Bloomberg Business App.

1214
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

1215
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg.

1216
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: Eleven thirty is the PGA Live Marriage in Jeopardy. I

1217
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 2: asked that as lawmakers start looking at the combination here,

1218
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 2: the Senate Finance Committee chair in fact, is telling the

1219
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 2: top brass the PGA tour is opening a probe into

1220
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 2: the surprise tie up with Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund.

1221
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 2: I'm Joe, Matthew, Kayleie Lynes. Thanks for joining us today

1222
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 2: live from Washington. This is Bloomberg Sound On. There was

1223
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 2: a big groan across the country. You might say, I

1224
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 2: guess not everybody feels the same way about it, But

1225
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 2: this combination did not make a lot of friends in

1226
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 2: the public relationshere year, and now it does look like

1227
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 2: lawmakers are going to at least take a couple of

1228
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 2: shots at this. Kalie, I wonder if they can make.

1229
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 15: It then taking shots h off the tee thank you.

1230
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 15: I don't know enough about golf to come up with

1231
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 15: with more pens, but you know, obviously the initial backlash

1232
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 15: was around the fact that this is Saudi owned and

1233
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 15: the human rights issues. Hence, you know, all the drama

1234
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 15: about who from the PGA was going to live go

1235
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 15: to live in the first place because of Jamal Kashoggi

1236
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 15: and some of the other issues with Saudi Arabia. To

1237
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 15: make it an anti trust though specific issue is interesting

1238
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 15: to me because Live is new, It's only been around

1239
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 15: for a couple of years, and before Live, wasn't it

1240
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 15: just the PGA, just like it's only the MLB.

1241
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 2: I think where you're going here, I just I'm genuinely

1242
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: confused how much of an impact a lot of money

1243
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: can make. Yeah, in a conversation like this one, uh,

1244
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 2: something we want to talk about here on the broadcast.

1245
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 2: And it's a pleasure here to join Multi Nayak, who's

1246
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 2: writing about a Bloomberg News reporter Malti, thanks for coming

1247
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 2: along here. We're looking at a Senate now probe, We're

1248
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 2: looking at potential antitrust concerns at the DOJ. Who goes first?

1249
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 11: So I think you know, the DJ was already investigating

1250
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 11: this PGA situation. Since you know, Live entered the scene

1251
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 11: last year, the PGA began suspending players who defected to

1252
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 11: Live Golf. So the DOJ jumped in last year and

1253
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 11: began investigating this and now you know, this deal that

1254
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 11: has come through, it's probably just going to be a

1255
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 11: continuation of that investigation. They're not that because of the

1256
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 11: merger announcement. That investigation is not going away. So I

1257
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 11: think the DJ is already sort of you know, the

1258
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 11: sick of things. They've already talked to golfers and officials

1259
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 11: on both sides, questioned them, you know, demanded some answers,

1260
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 11: and they've been collecting documents. I believe agents may have

1261
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 11: been on site, you know, Live Golf offices, collecting computers

1262
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 11: and other things to sort of gather evidence as part

1263
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 11: of that inquiry. So all of this was happening in

1264
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 11: over the last few months, and now the plot is

1265
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 11: thiken now that there's this merger that has been announced,

1266
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 11: and we'll have to see what comes next. Because, as

1267
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 11: Kelly said, before Live emerged on the scene, the PGA

1268
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 11: was the only game in town and they had one competitor, uh,

1269
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 11: you know, an upstart and now with this new deal,

1270
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 11: that Live could fold and there could be no competitor.

1271
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 11: And you also have to think about this merger as

1272
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 11: something happening at a global scale, because there's also the

1273
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 11: DP World Tour in Europe, which is also part of

1274
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 11: this partnership. So it's going to be Live Golf, DP

1275
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 11: World Tour and the PGA Tour. So there are going

1276
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 11: to be antrust concerns by regulators potentially in the U

1277
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 11: and UK as well. So I think about a super

1278
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 11: golf league, you know, at a global scale and this

1279
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 11: sort of giant monopoly and potentially UH regulators on both

1280
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 11: sides of the Atlantic thinking that this could be problematic.

1281
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 11: And of course lawmakers even before this deal happened, you know,

1282
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 11: Live Golf had lobbyists and you know Chief UH Greg Norman,

1283
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 11: who's basically the chairman of Live Golf, was up on

1284
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 11: Capitol Hill, you know, meeting with lawmakers and things like that.

1285
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 11: So and and and I think at that time they

1286
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 11: did face the backlash as well. So there's always been

1287
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 11: this sort of concern about the Saudi connection, and you know,

1288
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 11: the human rights record of the Kingdom, so that's always

1289
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 11: been an issue. And I'm not surprised that lawmakers are

1290
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 11: are sort of up in arms and already to investigate

1291
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 11: and sort of examine what this deal means.

1292
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 15: Well, of course, if you ask the Commissioner of the PGA,

1293
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 15: J Monahan, he says they're just better off together, and frankly,

1294
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 15: from a money perspective, it makes sense. Here's what he said.

1295
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 13: This puts us in a position where we've got capital

1296
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 13: that we can deploy to the benefit of our members

1297
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 13: and through our tournaments, and it gives us capital to

1298
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 13: deploy in growth businesses that ultimately will generate a return

1299
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 13: that will reinvest in our players.

1300
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 15: So sounding like, you know, this is capitalism, you're operating

1301
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 15: like a business and maybe thinking about profits, and yet

1302
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 15: this is nonprofit organization. Multi does that?

1303
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 8: You know?

1304
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 15: Add the complicating factor here.

1305
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 11: So you know, the PTA Tour, you know, at the

1306
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 11: core it is a nonprofit, but this new entity that

1307
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 11: they're forming now with the funding that's going to come

1308
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 11: in from the public Investment Front of Saudi Arabia, is

1309
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 11: going to be a for profit organization, so I think,

1310
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 11: and of course we get to see what the financial

1311
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 11: details of this deal are going to look like. They

1312
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 11: just have some sort of a same book agreement where

1313
01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 11: they've decided to come together, but you know, a lot

1314
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 11: of the finite details about how they'll you know, value

1315
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 11: the assets and how much the investment is going to be,

1316
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 11: all of that is being worked out. So it definitely

1317
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 11: looks like for the PGA or the way, you know,

1318
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 11: the messaging that's coming from the U s tore it

1319
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 11: just seems as if they are sort of looking at

1320
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 11: this as an opportunity to sort of use that money

1321
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 11: to revitalize the sport.

1322
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 10: Uh.

1323
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 11: You know, they have this reputation of being this legacy

1324
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 11: tour in the US that was sort of opposed to

1325
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 11: innovation or trying new formats and things, and Live sort

1326
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 11: of emerged on the scene and was a bit of

1327
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 11: a disruptor in in the world of pro golf and

1328
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 11: pro Last year, even before this deal, PGA Tour began

1329
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:49,759
Speaker 11: sort of changing its event formats of having larger prizes

1330
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 11: to sort of appeal to their players and have more

1331
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 11: play friendly policies. So this new entity that they will

1332
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 11: have will be a for profit organization, and I think

1333
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 11: the way they look at it is they could use

1334
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:05,719
Speaker 11: this money to really sort of revitalize the sport. And yeah,

1335
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 11: to the point of what is global?

1336
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 15: Yeah, Jmonaghan.

1337
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 10: Global is making.

1338
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 11: Absolutely have a global golf league where there'll be a

1339
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 11: global fan base and more opportunities for sponsors and media

1340
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 11: rites and all of that.

1341
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 2: Great MALTI thank you so much. Multi. I a Bloomberg

1342
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 2: News reporter on this, and I just have to invoke

1343
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 2: the nine to eleven families as well here, you know,

1344
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 2: you point to Jay Monahan. Remember he was questioning live

1345
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 2: on the air about he said, those who lost loved

1346
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 2: ones on nine to eleven, we'll never have to apologize

1347
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 2: for being a part of the PGA tour. Yeah, and boy,

1348
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 2: this stuff comes back around. We'll talk more about this

1349
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 2: when and if these probes developed. Thanks for listening to

1350
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 2: the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you

1351
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 2: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get

1352
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 2: your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday

1353
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 2: from Washington, d C. At one pm Eastern Time at

1354
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Dot coughed