WEBVTT - Building a Defense: Conclusion of Season 1 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.840 The accused Idaho student killer, Brian Coberger, was back in 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:07.800 court today. 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.000 Appearing in a Moscow, Idaho courtroom for a pre trial 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.440 hearing as his lawyers prepared to defend him against four 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:24.000 counts of first degree murder and now the death penalty. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:29.080 This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KT Studios 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:37.479 and iHeartRadio episode ten Building a Defense. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:42.160 a television producer at Kat's Studios, with Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:48.400 and Connor Powell. When Brian Cobeger walked into the courtroom 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.280 on the afternoon of Tuesday, June twenty seventh, he looked different. 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:59.720 He carried himself differently. Flanked by his defense team Anne Taylor, 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.120 Jay Logstin and Alyssa Masseth, Coburger entered the courtroom wearing 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.720 a dark suit and tie with a white dress shirt. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.920 His face was clean shaven, his hair styled with jel. 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.279 Gone was the bright orange prison jumpsuit that the twenty 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.679 eight year old quadruple murder suspect had worn for most 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:26.720 of his previous court appearances. In another world, the former 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.200 PhD criminology student looked like he could be testifying as 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.000 an expert witness for another case rather than appearing as 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:39.600 a murder suspect. But on June twenty seventh, Coburger, who 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:45.280 was accused of brutally murdering Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.000 and Nathan Chapin, was simply in the Alida County courtroom 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.400 to listen to his lawyers begin to lay out their 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.160 defense and fight to keep him from being executed. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:06.120 All right, this is State of Idah O versus Brian 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.760 Koberger on mister Coberger is JIMI Corp. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.000 In the days leading up to this much anticipated hearing, 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.320 there was speculation that Coberger's defense team would ask the 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.359 judge to force the prosecution to provide information and documents 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.080 on a wide range of topics. However, before the defense 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.960 and prosecution made their presentations to Judge John Judge, he 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:34.120 first addressed the issue of cameras in the courtroom. A 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.520 month earlier, Coberger's defense team had asked the judge to 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:41.360 remove press cameras. They worried the continued focus on Coburger 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:45.959 my prejudice potential jurors against Coburger at his trial, especially 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:50.560 as analysts legal commentators and social media influencers pick apart 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.200 Coberger's body language and every blink of his eye. Yet, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.919 a month after the defense made the request, the judge 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.920 had not made a decision, instead opting to warn at 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.560 the start of the hearing about how the media should 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.920 conduct themselves and cover the courtroom. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.840 I have deferred my decision about cameras. One of the 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.799 things that's going to be really important, that is very 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.480 important is that the people with the camera and media 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:20.280 need to follow the rules. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.959 And we've had some issues where people were pushing the envelope, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:31.959 particularly focusing on the tables where council sits. I would 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:35.120 prefer if you want to continue to have cameras in. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:39.960 This courtroom, is to back off make sure that we 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:44.680 just have the totality of what is happening in the 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:50.320 court and not just focus, for example, on this co 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:51.840 River's face. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.960 With the media warned, the hearing turned the defense's motions. 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.640 In the days leading up to this much anticipate hearing, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.240 there was speculation that Coberger's defense team would ask the 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.920 judge to force the prosecution to provide information and documents 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.360 on a wide range of topics from the investigation into 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.920 the suspected white vehicle, to the grand jury proceedings, to 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.040 cell phone data, to the FBI's DNA records. For weeks, 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.160 Coberger's defense team had been sending signals that they were 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.080 unhappy with the slow pace that the prosecution had been 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:30.000 turning over key documents. Here's defense attorney and Taylor, and 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:31.120 during the course of. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:33.279 The last several months, there has been a lot of 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.200 discovery that's been requested in a lot of business supply. 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.960 I come here asking the court to compel discovery. I'm 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.000 seeing and order directing that we received his discovery by not. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:46.680 Seeing any other kind of spanking. 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:52.200 I don't saying that the prosecutor has done something wrong. 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.560 I've come here saying that there are things that we 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.039 have the disagreement about whether I should get them or 0:04:58.080 --> 0:04:59.680 when I should get them, and we see it. 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.599 Co or to in this regard. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.359 Once the hearings started, defense Attorney An Taylor limited the 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.400 scope of a request to two single topics. First, she 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.640 requested the prosecution turn over the investigative and training records 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.200 for three specific Idaho police officers. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.280 Are one of the Courtant Council to be aware, it's 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.800 not a psiane's division either real items that are really 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.200 necessary to investigate this pace into paranis or coworker's events. 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.360 Taylor argued the defense needed more information about the criminal 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.720 investigation that led to Coberger's arrest in December of twenty 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.960 twenty two, and these three officers since they were at 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.159 the center of that investigation. Taylor said, one officer interviewed 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.400 a key witness at the scene of the murders, and 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.200 another conducted dozens of interviews with witnesses and attended the 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:53.400 victim's autopsies. 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:55.120 You're one of these. 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.599 We have not asked for training records for every officer 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.440 that acidity thing to do with the case. I would 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.360 not want to stand here and what the court think 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.120 that this is an exhaustive list of the officers that 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:07.840 we might need. 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:09.800 Training records for that. 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.240 These are three officers that we've requested or in the 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.919 stake has indicated they're not willing to get us as 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:20.839 training records. These three officers are officers that have each 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:27.440 conducted critical interviews with critical witnesses in the case, made 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:34.320 decisions about the interviews, made decisions about evidence, and conducted 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.680 other kinds of investigations. We seek their training records to 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:40.640 understand that their processes. 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.840 Taylor added that this request is not unusual, nor did 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.400 you believe it was a particularly difficult request. 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.920 I have often received training records where I under state 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.800 police officers in the correporation of other cases during the 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:00.560 course of my career. They are imperative for us to 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:06.440 understand the specialty in interrogating and interviewing people and from 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.640 making the decisions that they made with regard to things 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.680 taken as evidence in the case where Base followed back 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:13.760 on Will not followed that. 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:22.720 Leida County Deputy Prosecutor Ashley Jennings, however, responded and said 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.400 that none of these officers would be called to testify 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.680 at the trial, and that hundreds of officers worked on 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.680 the investigation that led to the arrest of Brian Kobeger. 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.000 She said she feared this motion could become a burden 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:35.840 for the prosecution. 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:44.080 Our concern with allowing training records for these view which 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.640 we can't understand why there's a substantial. 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.120 Need for these particular ones. 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.000 When it opened the door to us then having to 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.560 go and get obtained training records for these hundreds of 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.440 investing of officers who've been involved somewhat was your outside 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:01.120 of our controls. 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.960 Taylor pushed back on this concern and reminded the court 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.320 that Coburger was facing the death penalty and as the. 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.080 Quarter is aware, the state has fiblets to notice of intantacy, death. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:12.960 Pansims of cold over. 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:19.400 These are critical relevant materials, all of them, including the 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.800 police training records. They're necessary for us to prepare and 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.480 present part of fancies or co worker. They're necessary for 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.680 us to do our investigation. They're necessary for us to 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.920 prepare our case and our motion tactics meaning forward. 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:37.959 These are things that we need to have. 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.679 They're a heightened standard now that the state's filence notice 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.520 is intent to seek death and he's a very relevant 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.200 critical bits of information. They are discoverable and were asking 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.960 for order the things applied to us to. 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:54.959 Judged on judge that he would consider both sides of 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.599 the argument and would issue a written decision at a 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.760 later date. After ask the court to force the prosecution 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.480 to provide the Idaho police training records, and Taylor also 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.959 asked the judge to rule on two previous requests regarding 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.680 FBI records. Taylor asked for records from the FBI's cellular 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.160 analysis survey team. The CAST team had been brought in 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.079 to help process data from Coberger's mobile phone. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.880 These are bits an investigation that the FBI conducted that 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.600 relate to mister Coberger's cell phone and the State has 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.960 relied on that in their appidated to say that mister 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.200 Coberger was in certain places at certain times. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.560 The original requests for FBI's cell phone data and White 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.800 Hondai vehicle information was made weeks prior. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:49.400 So these are bits of information and analysis that's been 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.280 done since December. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:53.880 We are now at the end of June. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:56.760 We do not have those records yet. 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.880 Run they are something that's been relied on by the 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.800 stape for the puciapidata to a restuens to comorner as 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:05.320 well as to obtain. 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:06.480 A variety of search ones. 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.280 It's information that the state has agreed we should have, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:12.920 so we asked support for an. 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:18.000 Order with the deadlines with that prosecution, however, insisted they 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.240 had turned over everything in their possession. 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.400 We have discovered or talk to me about, thirteen thousand 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:29.320 pages of reports, thirteen thousand photographs, over ten thousand tips, 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:34.600 and over fifteen one terror rites of audio and video information. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.160 Miss Taylor has everything that we have what she is 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:43.240 seeking as a specific report from the theodcast team, which 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.840 I have indicated to her, is in its final stages 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:51.080 of review, and we are anticipating receiving sooner rather than later, 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:51.960 and as soon as. 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:53.280 We do, we will send that over. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.920 Judge sewn. Judge ruled on the spot for the defense 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.480 and suggested the FBI documents relating to the cell phone 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.439 data and Whitehaun Dilancha vehicle information should be turned over 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:14.520 no later than July fourteenth. Here's Jeff and Stephanie. 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.200 Since we haven't had a substantial update on this case 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.199 in a while, there was a lot of hype for 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.800 this hearing, and while it was substantial, it didn't quite 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:24.720 have the same omph we thought it might. 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.040 To your point, it was extremely short, just thirty minutes. 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.040 For note, pre trial hearings can last anywhere from two 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.559 minutes to two hours, depending upon the complexity of the case. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.839 But since there was seemingly a lot to cover, this 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:41.760 went much shorter than expected. 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.199 Well, that could be because a lot of what we 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.959 thought might get brought up didn't remember. Three days after 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.680 the announcement of the indictment back in May, the defense 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.760 asked for thirty four specific pieces of information from the 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.760 grand jury proceedings, all the transcripts, recordings, and evidence, even 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.959 the jurors names. Originally, the defense request for grand jury 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:01.920 information was supposed to be part of the hearing on 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.520 the twenty seventh, but then it wasn't, though it does 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.319 appear that the lawyers are talking behind the scenes to 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.199 try to come up with an agreement on this issue. 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.719 The other big issue that we thought was going to 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.120 be part of the hearing, and this is a big one, 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.920 was the defense's request for the documents related to the 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.000 DNA and the FBI's effort to build out this family tree. 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.760 Like we discussed earlier, that family tree is what led 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.240 investigators to Coburger. The state ended up asking for more 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.760 time to respond in the judge granted it. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.560 But the issue of the DNA, how it was collected, 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.480 how it was handled, and how it was used, seems 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.560 to be a growing issue and it is not going 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:39.480 away anytime soon. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.400 So I believe there has to be a pre trial 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.079 hearing in terms of determining whether or not this is 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.400 good or whether it is outside the ability to say yes, 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.360 the procedure they used was proper and the eventual swab 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.360 that they used for traditional DNAs admissible. That's going to 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.360 be a serious because this is a DNA case. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.640 Since the first time DNA was used in nineteen eighty 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.000 seven to convict a suspect in the United States, DNA 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.599 has played a major role in criminal investigations and in 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:16.520 securing convictions. While the statistical connection between the DNA taken 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.920 from the knife sheath found of the crime scene and 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.200 the DNA taken from Brian Coberger's cheek seems very straightforward 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.559 and in line with how DNA is usually used in 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:31.040 criminal investigations, attorney and former prosecutor Stephen Greenberg says there 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.000 could be a small chance this DNA evidence is not 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.839 even admissible at Coberger's trial because of the unique role 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.440 the FBI played in narrowing the search down to Brian Coburger. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:43.360 Here's Stephen Greenberg. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.040 It has to be a pre trial here in terms 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.920 of whether or not the DNA evidence will be admissible 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.880 at all because of the way they got there. There's 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.200 a number of issues that come into play, because if 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:59.240 you remember, they tried a whole number of things before 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.240 they outsourceed to the Bureau, and let's remember this you 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.760 know the f and FBI is federal. This is not 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.640 a federal case. There's no US attorney involved. This is 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.920 a state prosecution in a small town in Idaho. And 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.280 I'm not so sure how sophisticated the police and prosecutors are. 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.400 There's a chain of custody issue, because you know, they 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.600 sent this thing out and who knows where it went, 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.000 who knows who who was using it. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.600 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:41.160 a moment. After local investigators found the knife sheath cover 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.600 under Madison Mogan's comforter, they checked it for DNA and 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:46.880 found a very small amount on the button of the 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.800 knife sheath. Investigators then ran the DNA through a national 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.120 criminal database, but the DNA from the knife sheath did 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.080 not produce any matches. Instead of giving up, the DNA 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.320 information was then sent to the FB, who passed it 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.880 on to a private laboratory named Authrum, which then began 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.280 to look for relatives of the DNA sequence in publicly 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:14.440 available genealogy databases. Ultimately, genetic genealogists combed through hundreds of 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.520 names connected to the DNA and narrow down the likely 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.720 DNA profile to Brian Koberger. Greenberg says because this type 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.720 of genetic genealogy method is so new and untested in 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.440 the courts, the defense will likely challenge its admissibility in 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.160 a pre trial hearing and will put both FBI and 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:34.920 AUTHORAM officials under oath. 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.440 There will have to be evidentiary hearings, see, because it's 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:43.040 all going to go to the issue of whether the 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.360 court's going to let in this evidence. The judge will 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.560 have to have pre trial hearings, and these people will 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.440 be on the stand because it goes to the heart 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.160 of the case in terms of the issues that we've 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.000 been talking about. So now they'll take the stand pre trial, 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.720 and they'll take the stand during the trial. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.320 And even if the judge allows the DNA to use 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.520 in the trial, Coberger's defense is likely to challenge it 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:04.520 at every turn. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.600 There were a universe of other people who came up 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.760 when they did the non traditional okay, the genetic and 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.200 why can't we have those names? Did they follow up 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:19.000 on anybody other than this one defendant? So yeah, the issues, 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.320 even if the judge allows it in that will be 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.480 cross examination material for the defense. So if the main 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.120 issue and the only issue by which a jury can 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.440 find this guy guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is DNA. However, 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.040 all I need is write one juror for a mistrial, 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.840 And if the judge does let it in, it's still 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:38.720 going to be as serious. They're going to open on it, 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:40.520 they're going to cross examine on it, and they're going 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:41.120 to close on it. 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.040 Because that's the case. 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.880 The Coburger defense team cannot challenge the DNA in a 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.160 pre trial hearing until it receives all of the FBI 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.920 and off from paperwork from the prosecution, And so far, 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.760 the prosecution has refused to turn over the FBI documents, 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.640 claiming they don't have the information, hinting that the FBI 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.679 hadn't or wouldn't turn over the information. Instead, the prosecution 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.159 has asked the judge to allow for more time to 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.040 respond to the defense's request. Greenberg says the delay in 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.119 turning over DNA information is unusual and unlike the FBI, 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.679 which has a long history of being on the cutting 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.840 edge of using science to solve crimes. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.119 Makes no sense to me. Well, let's remember this. The 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:29.080 responsibility is to prosecutors. The FBI here was acting as 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.239 an independent contractor, right they were investigating the case as 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.879 they would if it were a federal case. They were 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:40.200 just asked to do this one particular task, So whoever 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.640 they reported to was somebody in the prosecutor's office. It's 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:46.920 a prosecutor's responsibility to see to it that they get 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.040 all the information they need. Would the FBI with actually 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.440 withhold information from the people who hired them to do 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.200 the lab work that being the prosecutor makes no sense 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:57.560 to me, no sense at all. 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.879 And if for some reason the FBI is reluctant and 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:06.359 doesn't want to turn over the genetic genealogy information, Greenberg says, 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.000 the bureau won't have a choice if the judge orders 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.440 the information to be turned over to the defense. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.840 Everybody who was within the jurisdiction of that court, which 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.360 obviously the FBI in this case is because they put 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.920 themselves into the case. The law of the case is 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.320 what the judge says, it is okay, he says, turn 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:24.720 it over. They turn it over. 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.480 But with the start of the trial nearing, the clock 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.679 is ticking, and every day which the defense is without 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.480 this key DNA information makes the October second start date 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:42.800 for the trial more and more unlikely. 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.400 Coburger's lawyers asked, and the judge said yes. 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.879 One week after the June twenty seventh pre trial hearing, 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:54.399 Brian Coberger's defense team scored a small but potentially important victory. 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.639 Judge John Judge ruled that the prosecution must give the 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.440 Coburger's defense team access to the training records of the 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:06.760 three Idaho police investigators the defense team deemed are at 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.040 the center of the investigation. The judge said of July 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.600 fourteenth deadline, writing that the defense adequately articulated the role 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.399 each of the officers played in interviewing witnesses and finding 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.480 and collecting potential evidence. However, the issue of the FBI 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.719 DNA documentation was still left unresolved. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.360 It's an important victory, and the reason is what they're 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.720 going to try to prove it is that either these 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.200 police officers who were first on the scene were inexperienced 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.280 or that these police on the scene at first didn't 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.440 follow whatever training information they were given. But the long 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.840 insured of it is there's going to be a serious 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.840 issue about how the crime scene was handled and how 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.600 well trained these particular officers were. And obviously the judge 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.119 felt this was important or he wouldn't have ordered the 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:57.560 turnover of this material. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.960 Defense turney Zan Taylor argued a week earlier at the 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.040 pre trial hearing that the defense needed to better understand 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:09.000 the methods the investigators use to exclude other suspects and 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.679 to zero in on Coburger. Stephanie and Jeff, followed by 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:14.560 Stephen Greenberg. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.440 Does this mean that the defense is going to go 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.280 after the detectives? Are they just trying to question the 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.679 motives of the detectives. It seems like such a stretch. 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.600 It reminds me of the OJ Simpson trial, for example, 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.600 when they went after LAPD detective Mark Furman back in 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.959 the day. Again, is this strategy or a stretch? 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.000 The defense's job is to explore every possible angle, and 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.760 we don't know exactly what their strategy is yet, but 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:44.879 this request certainly points in that direction. 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.120 All that to be said, it must be so difficult 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.840 for the family members to be listening to all of 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:52.800 the back and forth, and we just want to be 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:53.879 clear that our hearts go. 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:54.880 Out to all of them. 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.719 So it's a defense going to go after the police, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:20:59.880 But they're not going to go after the police per se. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.760 But they're going to go after the individual officers who 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.880 are responsible for being the first on this crime scene 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:07.760 and handling evidence. 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.480 In a previous court filing, the defense tried to undermine 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.520 and poke holes in the state's case against Coppager by 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.479 accusing the prosecution of not being transparent and hiding their 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.520 entire case. They have also in pre trial motions raised 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.080 issues about how investigators use the DNA sample to zero 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.880 in on Copager. Attorney Stephen Greenberg says this is likely 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.720 part of a defense strategy to attack not the final 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.600 conclusions of the DNA results, but the initial process of 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.879 collecting and analyzing the DNA from the crime scene. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.080 I do believe that if the judge let's in the 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.160 DNA evidence, things like this in terms of casting doubt 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.040 on how the entire investigatory process was handled, goes into 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.280 this whole issue. Is the DNA any good or is 0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:59.840 it not any good? Did they purposely focus on this guy? 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.080 Are there are other reputative defendants out there? So that 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.440 is why the judge, I believe, turned it over. And 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.600 I think it's an important victory for the public defender's office. 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:10.959 Is it a good idea to go after the police? 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.280 And I would say if you're an inexperienced lawyer, Yeah, 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.600 you might do that. An experienced lawyer will not go 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.119 after the police per se as a particular group of 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.080 individuals who were responsible for taking care of our safety, 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:25.960 but rather the particular officers who were involved. 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:41.280 Let's stop here for another break. One week after the hearing, 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.040 as Americans across the country were celebrating the Fourth of July, 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.600 and eerie video was uploaded to the Internet. The leaked 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.720 surveillance footage from a nearby apartment complex at one three 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:58.600 three zero Linda Lane appears to capture the moments before, during, 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:02.760 and after the Grizzly murders. The security camera is from 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.400 a parking lot just a few hundred yards away from 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.000 the three story house on King Road, and it is 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:11.320 just one of several camera views investigators have access to. 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.800 This video cannot be independently verified, and due to the 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:21.320 gag order, a verification is unlikely. Though it is timestamped Sunday, 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.120 November thirteenth, twenty twenty two and begins at three point 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:28.840 fifty nine in the morning. Since being posted, this video 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:32.600 has been removed countless times. Much of what appears in 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.840 the footage lines up with official statements from the probable 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:40.280 cause affidavit. In fact, the leaked video seems to validate 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:44.280 key parts of the PCA. On an otherwise dark and 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:47.120 quiet night, the first sign of movement in the video 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:52.280