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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, there's Chuck

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Speaker 2: and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you should know.

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Speaker 2: The watershed moment in American history edition.

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Speaker 1: That's right, in which we tackle not literally take on

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Speaker 1: no cover.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the Houston, Texas Conference, the National Women's Conference in Houston,

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Speaker 1: that was from November eighteenth to twenty first, nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: which was the only time that the US government got

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Speaker 1: together and said here's some money, go out and put

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Speaker 1: together a conference and a group of delegates that represent

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Speaker 1: the women in this country and come back to us

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Speaker 1: with ideas on action we can take but mostly won't.

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Speaker 2: Well, they left off the mostly won't part. They didn't

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Speaker 2: find that out until afterward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Gloria Steinem, who is one of the co founders of

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Speaker 2: Now and like a quintessential second wave feminist, she called

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Speaker 2: this the most important event nobody knows about, and it

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Speaker 2: really was. This was a very specific moment in time

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Speaker 2: where Olivia helped us with this, where she pointed out

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Speaker 2: that this is probably the last moment where the federal

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Speaker 2: government would be like, sure, we're going to fund a

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Speaker 2: conference to find out how to better womenkind womenkind, and

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Speaker 2: then at the same time the last moment where those

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Speaker 2: women could go into that conference assuming that the stuff

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Speaker 2: they came up with was going to actually have legs

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Speaker 2: and move forward in Congress.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you see the FX mini series This Is America?

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Speaker 2: I did not, which is surprising because I've been chewing

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Speaker 2: around the edges of it in other research and I've

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Speaker 2: still not seen it.

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Speaker 1: It was really good.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure it looked like it's just a murderer's

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Speaker 2: row of great actors.

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Speaker 1: Great actors, and it's I'm sure you can still watch it.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of the people in this story figure

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Speaker 1: in that mini series.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. This is a It was a huge,

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Speaker 2: huge deal. The historian named Marjorie J. S. Spruell wrote

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Speaker 2: a book on this, and she called it the crest

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Speaker 2: of the second wave of US feminism. It is also

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Speaker 2: conceivably the time the moment where the Christian right became

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Speaker 2: a thing, where the religious rite, i should say more specifically,

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Speaker 2: and that the religious right became came to hold tremendous

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Speaker 2: way over the Republican Party. A lot of people point

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Speaker 2: to the election of Ronald Reagan. Some people take it

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Speaker 2: a little further back and point to Jerry Folwell's organization

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Speaker 2: of the Moral Majority Political Action Committee. Nope, Apparently it

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Speaker 2: happened two years before Fallwell in Houston, Texas, and it

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Speaker 2: was an rally that was designed to oppose this women's

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Speaker 2: conference by women who were threatened by the idea of

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Speaker 2: women being stripped of their traditional roles of homemaker. There

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Speaker 2: was a huge opposition of women who believed that the

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Speaker 2: family was the basic unit of society and that that

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Speaker 2: family was meant to have the mom stay home with

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Speaker 2: the kids and the dad go off and be the

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Speaker 2: wage journer. And that worked fine in Dandy after the

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Speaker 2: post war World War two era, but that became increasingly

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Speaker 2: difficult as this time war on wag's real wages failed

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Speaker 2: to keep up with inflation, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: you actually kind of needed the mom to go out

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Speaker 2: and work. And so to these women, this is like

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Speaker 2: a literal breakdown in the fabric of society, and they

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Speaker 2: were very upset about this, and they very much blamed

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Speaker 2: feminists who seemed to want to push things in that direction.

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Speaker 2: Not only weren't opposed to it, they wanted to push

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Speaker 2: things in that direction, and so this huge opposition came up.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And it was also a time specifically, you know,

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Speaker 1: you were talking about the opposition movement just in general,

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Speaker 1: but specifically to oppose the Equal Rights Amendment, which was

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Speaker 1: proposed first in nineteen twenty three, technically passed the House

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Speaker 1: and Senate in nineteen seventy two, still not written into

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Speaker 1: the US Constitution. We can't get into it now because

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Speaker 1: it is a very long and convoluted story.

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Speaker 2: Well, we did an episode on it, did we on.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing? How when was that?

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Speaker 2: I know, man, I know, I would say in the

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Speaker 2: last three years.

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Speaker 1: Interesting because there's new stuff that's happened in the last

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Speaker 1: few years. So I wonder, yeah, if it was before that,

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Speaker 1: dish well, I mean, just like lawsuits like Virginia coming

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Speaker 1: on board, which meant which means we had three quarters

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Speaker 1: of the state approval basically everything in place that is

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Speaker 1: required to make a constitutional amendment. But then people are like,

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Speaker 1: well wait a minute, other people rescinded THEIRS and Virginia

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Speaker 1: came on late and there said previously been rescinded. So

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Speaker 1: then there were lawsuits and here I said, we weren't

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Speaker 1: getting into it, and I'm kind of getting into it.

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Speaker 1: But I think the last lawsuit said it's still not happening, man,

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Speaker 1: and that was in the last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: That's still just crazy to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is. But anyway, Yeah, we did do an

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Speaker 1: episode on that. That's why it seems so familiar. But

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Speaker 1: we did.

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Speaker 2: And the reason why it seems familiar is because Phillis

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Speaker 2: Shaffley figured Big into that, and she figures Big into

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Speaker 2: this too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So Phillis Shafflee was an attorney, a very much

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Speaker 1: conservative right wing activist, and who was played by Cate

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Speaker 1: Blanchette wonderfully in Missus America. Yeah, she did a great job.

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Speaker 1: She founded the Stop Era. I was about you call

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Speaker 1: it a club or organization, and I just have to

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Speaker 1: shout out the fact that stop is what's called a backronym.

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Speaker 1: That's when you have an acronym that's already a word,

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Speaker 1: So all you really needed was an organization called stop Era.

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Speaker 1: It actually stands for stop taking our privilege privileges. And

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Speaker 1: you can't use a word from the acronym or backronym

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Speaker 1: in your acronym or backronym, it's no.

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Speaker 2: Or else you're just saying it twice, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's just so clumsy, and we like to critique acronyms

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Speaker 1: as good or bad. I give stop Era just an unnecessary.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, we need a rubber stamp for that, or no,

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Speaker 2: a metal clanging sound like you've embossed it.

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Speaker 1: At any rate, philishafflete foun you don't want to work

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Speaker 1: this out? All right? What are we doing?

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Speaker 2: The So you remember like the old production company that

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Speaker 2: created Dragnet, It was like Mark seven or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Don't remember that, but sure, well we'll go.

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Speaker 2: Off and watch an episode of Dragnet and then at

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Speaker 2: the end I'll point it out to you, okay.

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Speaker 1: And it was like a set ubu set good dog thing.

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Speaker 2: Kind of but yes, exactly it was the same premise,

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Speaker 2: but it was it was somebody like putting like a

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Speaker 2: metal stamp and they hit it with like, ah, like

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Speaker 2: a hammer. Yeah. It made that that metal emboss engraving sound. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that I want to rip off is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: All right, so we give stop e r a an

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Speaker 1: unnecessary Oh.

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Speaker 2: That sounds good. That was really good, Jerry.

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Speaker 1: The we should talk about the beginnings, the seed of

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Speaker 1: this conference It happened on the heels of the UN

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Speaker 1: saying nineteen seventy five is the International Woman's Year, and

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Speaker 1: they had a international conference in Mexico City that year.

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Speaker 1: And that's when gerald Ford stood up and said, all right,

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Speaker 1: here's an Executive Order number one one eighty three to two.

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Speaker 1: We'll give you five million bucks to about twenty nine

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Speaker 1: million dollars today to create the National Commission on the

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Speaker 1: Observance of in an International Women's Year, and like, go

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Speaker 1: have your big conference, work out what you want to

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Speaker 1: bring back to us, which is what we're refer too earlier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that five million sounds like a lot to

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Speaker 2: fund some conferences, and it is, but I've read from

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Speaker 2: somebody who was kind of sour on the whole thing

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Speaker 2: point out that that's less than a nickel a woman

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Speaker 2: for every woman that was in America at the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but twenty nine million comparatively, you can't pull a

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Speaker 1: conference off for that. I'm with you, But okay, they'll

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Speaker 1: do it for a million.

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Speaker 2: A very important point was it was also a series

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Speaker 2: of conferences. First. They had state conferences first, Yeah, figure

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Speaker 2: out what they were going to bring the national conference.

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Speaker 2: So it was like this year long of conference, and

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Speaker 2: like looking back now, you're like, wow, people were talking

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Speaker 2: about women and women's rights a lot at the time,

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Speaker 2: and it was a huge like there was. It was

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Speaker 2: just in the zeitgeist, like women's rights was moving forward

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Speaker 2: at this incredible clip. Just two things. Time declared the

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five Man of the Year to be the

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Speaker 2: American Woman. Yeah, and I read that the nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: one seventy two Congress, I think that was the ninety

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Speaker 2: second Congress, they passed more women's rights legislation than all

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Speaker 2: previous legislative sessions combined. So it was it was a

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Speaker 2: huge It seemed like a juggernaut. And of course women

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Speaker 2: were going to have all the rights that men have.

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Speaker 2: The Equal Rights Amendment was going to be become a

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Speaker 2: part of the Constitution. It was just in the air.

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Speaker 2: So this conference just made sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Can I read that Time magazine quote because it's

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Speaker 1: pretty great. Yeah, this was in the quote unquote Man

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Speaker 1: of the Year article said enough US women have so

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Speaker 1: deliberately taken possession of their lives that the event is

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Speaker 1: spiritually equivalent to the discovery of a new continent.

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Speaker 2: That's so awesome.

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Speaker 1: Man, whoever wrote that, nice work.

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Speaker 2: James time.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Jimmy time. So there's a congress person named Bella

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Speaker 1: Abzug battling Bella Abzug from New York who was a

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Speaker 1: real firebrand and was one of the biggest advocates for

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Speaker 1: this congress. I'm sorry for this conference in Congress. And

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Speaker 1: she got together with some other organizers, like you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: there were state and regional conferences. They were gonna choose

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Speaker 1: about two thousand delegates, and they were really really smart

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Speaker 1: because and you know, maybe if we told Josh I

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Speaker 1: was putting together sort of a easily two parter on

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Speaker 1: just the history of feminism.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you weren't talking to me just that.

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Speaker 1: I see, No, let's talk to the listener. You know.

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Speaker 1: I got to people out there in podcast land.

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Speaker 2: I'm psyched about that one. I've been wanting to do

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Speaker 2: that forever and we need to We need to do

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Speaker 2: that sooner than later, for sure, because I've been wanting

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Speaker 2: to do that one for years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But I think where I was going

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Speaker 1: was that they were really smart in that. Uh oh,

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Speaker 1: I nowhere else head it is that in certain ways

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Speaker 1: of feminism, there was not the most representation and as

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Speaker 1: feminism grew through the different movements that expanded, and this

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Speaker 1: was one of those moments where they got really smart

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Speaker 1: and they were like, you know, we can't just make

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Speaker 1: this about white suburban women or white you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess urban women either. We need to expand our pool

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Speaker 1: and talk to women who are farmers and women who

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Speaker 1: are basically women who haven't been you know, minority women

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Speaker 1: who haven't been included as much in this conversation. Will provide,

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Speaker 1: provide childcare. If you can't afford to come, we'll pay

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Speaker 1: your entrance fee. Like it was just a really smart

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Speaker 1: way to go about it, which is like, let's bring

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Speaker 1: everybody together finally here in the nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is the conference encouraged that they were

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Speaker 2: trying to get the best representation of women in America

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Speaker 2: that they possibly could, and so that conference kind of

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Speaker 2: inadvertently encouraged all these different types of feminists to come

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Speaker 2: together like they never had before. That was a huge

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Speaker 2: lasting impact of it. Yeah, a lot of there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of infighting in feminism at the time. There

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Speaker 2: was the old Guard, kind of personified by Betty Ferdan

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Speaker 2: who wrote The Feminine Mystique, who was kind of opposed

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Speaker 2: to say, the gay contingent, which she called the lavender menace,

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Speaker 2: which she believed prevented mainstream society from accepting feminism and

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Speaker 2: seeing it as credible. Like you said, feminism was largely

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Speaker 2: viewed through the lens of white, middle class women. This

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Speaker 2: was an expand scope and it was it made some

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Speaker 2: people nervous. They were like, well, how are we going

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Speaker 2: to get anything done with all these opposing views? And

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Speaker 2: it was very fortunate that there was that small contingent

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Speaker 2: of conservatives who were super mad about this, it still

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Speaker 2: attended this conference that allowed all the other groups to

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Speaker 2: come together to oppose them and get these planks pushed

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Speaker 2: forward rather than fighting it amongst one another. And it

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Speaker 2: actually brought together different branches of feminism that are still

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Speaker 2: just part of this coalition today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a lot of coalescing on both sides

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Speaker 1: because of this event. It's pretty incredible. Yeah, because philis

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Speaker 1: Shaffley early on championed to try and stop this from

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Speaker 1: even happening, like, hey, Congress, don't fund this thing. That

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Speaker 1: didn't work. And so a woman named Lottie Beth Hobbes

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Speaker 1: of Texas, who features pretty prominently here, had the idea

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Speaker 1: to like to show up and rabble rows and make

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Speaker 1: their voices heard on the other side. She initially proposed it,

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Speaker 1: and interestingly, Shaffley, I think you found this wasn't immediately

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Speaker 1: on board because she was very you know, she liked

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Speaker 1: to play chess and not checkers, and she was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: if we show and there's a low opposition turnout, we're

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Speaker 1: going to look like fools. But Lottie Beth Hobbs said no,

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Speaker 1: we're going and you should get on board, and she did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. That was Marjorie J. Sproule, the historian turned that up,

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Speaker 2: which is fascinating as we'll see how that played out.

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Speaker 1: And the committee that was actually formed by the anti

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Speaker 1: era activist was the IWY Citizens Review Committee, and again

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Speaker 1: a coalescing, They're like, are you anti gay, come and

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Speaker 1: join us? Are you anti abortion? Get over here? Do

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Speaker 1: you not want the era bill passed? Come along Catholics, Mormons, evangelicals,

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Speaker 1: And this is what you were talking about earlier. That

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Speaker 1: really sort of galvanized the beginning of the religious right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the more inclusive the feminists were in the conference,

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Speaker 2: the more targets it presented to people opposed to it,

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Speaker 2: the more likely it made for those opponents to come

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Speaker 2: together in opposition and form like an actual movement with

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Speaker 2: real political clout, and that became the religious right. And

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Speaker 2: apparently it was the inclusion of a woman's right to

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Speaker 2: abortion included as part of the like the goals of

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Speaker 2: this conference that really kind of created that what had

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Speaker 2: not been a coalition before where it was basically the

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Speaker 2: Catholics who were anti abortion up to that point and

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Speaker 2: the Evangelicals were saying, like anti gay. Well, now they

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Speaker 2: had something in common feminism. Feminism is going to ruin everything.

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Speaker 2: There are other people who are anti era, and it

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Speaker 2: just brought all of them together. Like you were saying,

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Speaker 2: it's just nuts how the fabric of our society today

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Speaker 2: formed over this weekend essentially in November. Yeah, it's insane

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Speaker 2: to me, Like history so rarely tucked into one little

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Speaker 2: tiny corner three days. Yeah, and this is a really

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Speaker 2: good example of that rare, rare instance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, you mentioned the anti abortion like

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Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade went through in seventy three, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't even become officially part of the Republican platform anti

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Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade until nineteen seventy six, And like you said,

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Speaker 1: it was something to coalesce and bring people together. So

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Speaker 1: like both sides it's almost like they're going to war,

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Speaker 1: you know, both sides are bringing in back up and

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Speaker 1: they're mounting the troops to sort of dig in on

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Speaker 1: both sides. At this one weekend in Houston, there were

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Speaker 1: conservative delegates that did get elected. Utah, Mississippi had delegates there.

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Speaker 1: They got elected because they had more you know, conservative

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Speaker 1: voters in those states.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those state conferences that were held before the nation conference. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's where they elected delegates. And if you're in a

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Speaker 2: conservative state, you were sending conservative delegates. So much so

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Speaker 2: Mississippi sent six men to the women's conference, as I

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Speaker 2: guess a symbol as well of like these are the men,

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Speaker 2: these are this is who in charge. Is in charge,

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Speaker 2: they should be the ones who are the delegates. There

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Speaker 2: was actually seven men. South Carolina sent a male delegate too,

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Speaker 2: but he apparently didn't show up. So you will very

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Speaker 2: frequently see that out of the two thousand delegates, only

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Speaker 2: only six were men.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Mississippi also sent Dallas Higgins, who was married

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Speaker 1: to George Higgins, who was the leader of the Kukux

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Speaker 1: Klan in Mississippi. So do with that what you will.

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Speaker 2: Got a lot of ground to cover Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: So as far as the other delegates on the you know,

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Speaker 1: the non conservative delegates, they were obviously feminists there with

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Speaker 1: their agenda. A lot of them were political insiders who

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Speaker 1: had been around for a long time. They brought out

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Speaker 1: all the stars though, they're like, Gloria Steinem, you get

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Speaker 1: in here, Correta, Scott King, come on down, Shirley Chisholm,

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Speaker 1: who Ruby just did a project on Churley Chislm for

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Speaker 1: Black History Month, so I learned all about her, which

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Speaker 1: is amazing.

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Speaker 2: She was the first black woman elected to Congress.

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Speaker 1: Right, first black woman elected to Congress, and first black

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Speaker 1: woman to run for president of the United States.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that, nat.

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Speaker 1: Which is incredible. Barbara Jordan of course was there. And

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Speaker 1: if you want a real showstopper, you got to get

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Speaker 1: my Angelou to write a custom poem for the event.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. What was it called? Like toward to More Perfect.

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Speaker 1: Union, to form a more Perfect Union that was written

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Speaker 1: for this conference.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cool. So we keep talking about Houston and

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Speaker 2: Texas and if you're like, well, why would they hold

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Speaker 2: a women's rights conference in Houston? Or in Texas. There

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Speaker 2: are a couple of reasons why Texas was actually one

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Speaker 2: of the states that had already ratified the ER, and

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Speaker 2: Houston was a well. Also, Barbara Jordan was a congress

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Speaker 2: person from Texas from Houston, so they had even more

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Speaker 2: feminist cred And then Houston actually had a an agency

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Speaker 2: basically a Woman's Advocate agency in the city office. And

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Speaker 2: so like all of these things put together, mete Houston

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Speaker 2: seemed like, hey, this is a city on the rise

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Speaker 2: as far as feminism goes in. In reaction and response

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Speaker 2: to finding out that Houston was where the national conference

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Speaker 2: was going to be, the Governor of Texas declared that

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Speaker 2: week national Family Week. Very clearly through his lot or

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Speaker 2: Texas's lot in with the anti era people, the Houston

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Speaker 2: City Council had diminished the funding for that Woman's Advocate

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Speaker 2: office to one dollar a year and essentially just eliminated it.

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Speaker 2: They took a lot of steps to kind of go

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Speaker 2: backwards when they found out this is this is going

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Speaker 2: to be in Houston, like most of Houston's establishment was

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Speaker 2: not happy that this was going to happen here.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say it happened in Houston,

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Speaker 1: because that meant that I'm one day closer to you.

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Speaker 1: M Mmm, No, No, you ever heard that song?

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Speaker 2: No? Is that a tron D song?

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Speaker 1: No, it's uh, he's a Gallon Brothers or Larry Gatlin.

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Speaker 2: Maybe what's the song?

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Speaker 1: Houston? Parentheses means I'm one day closer to you. It's

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Speaker 1: a good song.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've not heard it.

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Speaker 1: Stun means that I'm one day closer to you.

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Speaker 2: Nope, still have not heard that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess maybe she lived in Dallas or something. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: that joke didn't work. So let's take a break.

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Speaker 2: Is this our first break?

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Speaker 1: It's got to be Yauza. All right, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: All right. So this conference began with a very symbolic

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Speaker 1: event or gesture, I guess, or a series of gestures.

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Speaker 1: They modeled it on the Seneca Falls Convention of eighteen

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Speaker 1: forty eight, which was the big sort of bedrock event

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Speaker 1: of the beginnings of the woman's suffrage movement. And so

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Speaker 1: they got a torch Olympic style, got all these athletes,

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Speaker 1: all these women to go, I mean all across the board,

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Speaker 1: like high school girls, all the way to Olympians themselves,

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Speaker 1: and they passed that torch quite symbolically from Seneca Falls

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Speaker 1: all the way to Houston. Maya Angelou comes in with

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Speaker 1: that poem, brings the house down. All the heavy hitters

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Speaker 1: are there. That national news coverage is just going bonkers.

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Speaker 1: There were morning TV shows that literally set up camp.

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Speaker 1: There was in all the magazines. The first Ladies got together.

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Speaker 1: I think Roslynd Carter was the active first Lady at

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Speaker 1: the time, but Lady brig Johnson, Betty Ford, they all

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Speaker 1: came and got on stage together and in the end,

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Speaker 1: including the delegates, anywhere between seventeen and mid thirty thousand people,

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Speaker 1: it depends on who's counting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a significant number of people who came to

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Speaker 2: show up. And so they were talking about a ton

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Speaker 2: of different stuff. Remember all each state sent delegates. In

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Speaker 2: each delegate or group of delegates had their own pet

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Speaker 2: project that they wanted to pass their own The point

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Speaker 2: was to put together a bunch of planks to form

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Speaker 2: a platform to send to Congress and the President and

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Speaker 2: say this is what you start passing this and women

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Speaker 2: will be much more equal in the United States. Right.

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Speaker 2: So Olivia pointed out, some of the planks are all

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Speaker 2: of the planks in The final plan covered arts and humanities.

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Speaker 2: May I do this one sure? Battered women, business, child abuse, childcare, credit,

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Speaker 2: disabled women, education, elective and appointed office, employment, equal Rights Amendment, health, homemakers, insurance,

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Speaker 2: international affairs, media, minority women, offenders, older women, rape, reproductive freedom,

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Speaker 2: rural women, sexual preference statistics, and women welfare and poverty.

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Speaker 2: Those are the planks that ended up in this final platform.

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Speaker 2: It covered everything, and that was a direct result of

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Speaker 2: bringing so many different women from so many different walks

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Speaker 2: of life together and say like, what do you need

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Speaker 2: to be to thrive in the United States?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they've tried foot rubs here, Like can we just

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Speaker 1: get like one a week from our partner? Is that

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Speaker 1: too much to ask without some without grousing?

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Speaker 2: Is that okay? Can you imagine if the federal government

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Speaker 2: mandated that you have to do that would be hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Well at the time they probably said, all right, you

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Speaker 1: get your foot rub, but we get two in return.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So.

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Speaker 1: There was You know, I mentioned that the news was

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Speaker 1: covering it big time, and I don't think this is

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Speaker 1: any accident that it was a woman's conference. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot of talk of like of in fighting and

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Speaker 1: even fighting or not even fighting, but obviously fighting between

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Speaker 1: the two sides, and they may even physically confront one

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Speaker 1: another and get in fistfights, and it's just that sort

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Speaker 1: of old, you know, cat fight trope that's so worn out,

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Speaker 1: and it was I'm sure worn out in the mid

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Speaker 1: seventies as well. Of course that did not happen. One

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Speaker 1: of the reasons is because there were only about three

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Speaker 1: hundred Conservatives there and they were just far out numbered.

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Speaker 1: They did have ribbons, they had lapel ribbons that said majority,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of where this whole idea of hey

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Speaker 1: with a moral majority, like we are the majority, Like

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Speaker 1: most American women don't want what you're suggesting, so here's

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Speaker 1: our little pin to suggest.

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Speaker 2: That, right, And so that was kind of how the

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Speaker 2: media portrayed the people who were what the feminists the

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Speaker 2: other delegates called antis. The conservative delegates were called antis

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Speaker 2: by everybody else because they were anti everything. When they

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Speaker 2: passed passed the platform, you could vote on individual planks,

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Speaker 2: they just voted against the whole thing. So it was

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Speaker 2: viewed as this kind of single coalition and step with

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Speaker 2: philis Shaffley. And it turns out that there was a

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Speaker 2: reporter for the Nation named Lucy Kamasar, who did more

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Speaker 2: digging than the rest of the media and found that actually, no,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of the women walking around with majority

434
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: pins on are like, yes, they're anti federal government, but

435
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: they're pro federally funded healthcare or childcare. They oppose rape

436
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 2: like they weren't. It wasn't just like complete locksteps she showed,

437
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 2: but that wasn't the story that got told about the

438
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: opposition at the conference by the rest of the media.

439
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: I'm loath to make another music joke, now, let's hear it.

440
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: I just wonder if every time she walked into the

441
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: room they said, hey, don't turn around.

442
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 2: Is that a Ace of bass joke?

443
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: You get this one?

444
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 2: Ace of bass?

445
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: No Falco, don't turn around? They're commisars in town.

446
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay.

447
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: That's got better or worse than the other one?

448
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 2: Uh, much better because i've heard that song.

449
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, different spelling.

450
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: Plus it's a good song. I'm not convinced that the

451
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 2: Houston one day closer to the song is good.

452
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: Oh you probably like it. Larry Gatlin, Sure you remember

453
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: the Gatlin Brothers.

454
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: What was their big hit?

455
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: Houston? Was it?

456
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: Really? Because I've heard them before, but I've never heard

457
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: a big hit of that song.

458
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: They were big. That was that whole seventies thing when

459
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: country just had a big sort of movement country music

460
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: with a Mandres Sisters and all that.

461
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: But there was another song of theirs that I would

462
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: have heard of.

463
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: Well, how about this. You look that up and I'll

464
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: bring us forward. I haven't set it back like I

465
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: keep doing. So the platform itself passed, you know, and

466
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: with flying colors, like most people expected it would, with

467
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: all the progressive delegates there. One of the biggest exceptions

468
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: of that, though, was how they were dealing with racial inequality,

469
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: because they had put together a brief addressing this that

470
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: basically just said, hey, no double discrimination here, Like, it's

471
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: already bad enough that women of color are being discriminated

472
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: against because of their skin tone, but you can't double

473
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: up because they're women as well. And maybe let's get

474
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: some bilingual programs going. So they trot this out to

475
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: their delegation and a lot of women of color stood up,

476
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: and I was like, this isn't enough. This is very vague.

477
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: So we actually have a plan that we put together beforehand.

478
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: It's called the Black Women's Plan of Action, the b

479
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: w p A and we would like to swap that

480
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: in for this minority resolution that you've crafted.

481
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: Right, And that was a that was a big deal

482
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: that it actually got that far, and even better than that,

483
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: it actually was voted on enthusiastically. It was like a

484
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 2: six page plank that really covered everything that the that

485
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: women of color generally were interested in seeing resolved, and

486
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: it got added to this to this platform. Kreta Scott

487
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: King presented it on the last night to the delegation

488
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 2: and it received it passed by an overwhelming majority. And

489
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: this was really kind of part of the spirit of

490
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: this conference. The women broke into singing, we shall overcome

491
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: together after they voted in favor of adding that plank,

492
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: rather than just the hey, let's all be you know,

493
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: let's be considerate of women of color, like that was

494
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: the original plank.

495
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's also notable because once the Black Women's

496
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: Plan of Action was presented and they came forward, then

497
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: Asian women and Puerto Rican women and Chicana Native American

498
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: women they were delegates. There were delegates there as well

499
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: representing them and they were like, well, hey, like we

500
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: should all have our voice. And I think it was

501
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: just one of those big moments like we've been talking

502
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: about of coalescing, where a lot of these white feminists

503
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: were like, hey, you know, I don't know if we've

504
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: done right by our sisters of color, So like, we

505
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: we're all about inclusion, yet we're not being as inclusive

506
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: as we should be, right, And this was that moment

507
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: when it happened.

508
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, a very similar thing happened with the gay contingent

509
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: of the feminist second Wave, which again Betty Fredaine called

510
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: the lavender Menace, not because she necessarily had a personal

511
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: problem with lesbians, but because she saw that as a

512
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: huge obstacle to mainstream America taking feminism seriously. And one

513
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: of the reasons why is because at the time, you've

514
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: heard of man haters, right, it was just kind of

515
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: like a trope that was funny, and it was usually

516
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: assigned to all feminists. That was what they used to

517
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 2: describe lesbians before. That's what they were characterized as in

518
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: the media and in the popular culture. Man haters. That's

519
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: the only reason anybody could ever be a lesbian. You'd

520
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: have to hate men. And that also kind of dovetailed

521
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: with an actual thread of like real disdain for the

522
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: patriarchy and male dominance that was alive and well in

523
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: some sections of second wave feminism at the time. And

524
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: although they represented a minority of feminists in general, including

525
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: the feminists at this convention, those are the ones who

526
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: get the microphone stuck in their face because they made

527
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: the great the best press, So they had a disproportionately

528
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: large voice, and they seemed like they were hobbling feminism

529
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: as a result, because who wants to get in league

530
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: with man haters?

531
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, for sure, And I think that was

532
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: a real It seems like at least there was a

533
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 1: realization within this conference and within the delegation that they

534
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: were like, this is really our moment to bring everybody

535
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: together because there's obviously going to be you know, it's

536
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: going to be a stronger movement if we're representing everyone

537
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: and everyone's on board. So Betty for Dan during the debate,

538
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: very publicly endorsed the resolution, completely reversed her previous position,

539
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: and that was, you know, people within the movement, Betty

540
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: for Dan was a very sort of a founding member

541
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: and a voice that was important. So it was a

542
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: big deal.

543
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so when they voted overwhelmingly again in favor

544
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: of including the gay and less being contingent as part

545
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: of that. I don't remember exactly what the plank was,

546
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 2: but it was essentially saying like, guess we're your legit

547
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: human beings and we recognize that, and everybody should. They

548
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: broke out into song again and they sang, Houston, I'm

549
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: one day closer than to you.

550
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, like an Indigo

551
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: Girl song.

552
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: No, but I did look up Larry Gatlin. Still no clue.

553
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: I have no idea how I've ever heard of him,

554
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: because I've not heard of any of his songs.

555
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: That the Gatlin Brothers nothing.

556
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: Nope, all right, there's a song called Broken Lady, which

557
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: sounds awful, but that's their biggest hit, and I don't

558
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: think i've heard that one.

559
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: H Was it Broken Lady? Parentheses? Get me some glue?

560
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: What is going on with you today?

561
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm a big lover of the parenthetical

562
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: song title. You don't see those anymore.

563
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: It's true, It's true, you really don't who What was it? Oh?

564
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: That Cutting Crew song? I Just Died in your Arms

565
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: tonight song? Great song?

566
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: Is that a parenthetical?

567
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: Yes? I just is in parentheses? Is need?

568
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: Yes?

569
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: The title of the song is in parentheses. I just

570
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: in parentheses died in your arms tonight, Like it couldn't

571
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: just be died in your arms tonight.

572
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: Wow, a frontloaded parenthetical. That's unique.

573
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: But also I say we brand this one unnecessary too,

574
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: shall we? Okay, very nice. I did not see that

575
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: coming up again, frankly.

576
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: So they did not sing that song. But after that vote,

577
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: there was also obviously a reproductive Freedom resolution. This supported

578
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: government funding for abortion and sex said that passed very

579
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: easily as well, like everything else, But the Conservatives were

580
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: really upset about this one obviously, And say they got

581
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: up on stage with a huge blown up picture of

582
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: an aborted fetus and they sang everyone's getting up and singing,

583
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: I imagine, much to John and Yoko's may they saying.

584
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: All we were saying is give life a chance. And

585
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: in the meantime, the other side is out there chanting choice, choice, choice,

586
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: and it's just a you know, it's quite a scene

587
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: happening there. Like the energy in that conference center must

588
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: have been incredible for sure.

589
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: And then everybody got brought down when the plank, the

590
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 2: proposal to create a cabinet level Department of Women's Affairs

591
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: was voted down, and they had good reason too. Actually,

592
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: there were a lot of women who are like, sure,

593
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: that sounds good. There are a lot of other women

594
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: at the conference who are like, no, we do not

595
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: want to pigeonhole all of women's problems into one agency.

596
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: Like our problems and the thing are our goals and

597
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 2: our hopes. They spread over everything else, Like we're humans,

598
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: like we should we have all the same interests that

599
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: men do. Why should we just have one cabinet position

600
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: that all of our stuff is shoveled into. It doesn't

601
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: make any sense. So they actually combine their votes with

602
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: the anties, who again, we're voting against literally everything that

603
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: everybody else was voting yes on, and they actually managed

604
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: to scuttle that one. I think that was a good move.

605
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: I think so too, because I wonder if all the

606
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: eggs had been in that one basket, if you know,

607
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: four years later, they're like, you know what we're gonna

608
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna acts that position and all together, yeah, or

609
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: that cabinet.

610
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they did with the Woman's Advocate Agency in Houston.

611
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then all of a sudden, you're nowhere again.

612
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: Right. All we're saying is give life a chance, you

613
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 2: want to take our second break and then come back

614
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: and talk a little bit more about the counter mobilization

615
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: and what came of that.

616
00:35:40,520 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: Let's do it all, right, So we mentioned at the

617
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: beginning in sort of pepper throughout some of these counter protests.

618
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: These aren't the actual conservative conservative delegates that are there

619
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: at the conference. This is the group headed by Texan

620
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: Lottiebeth Hobbes, who was the president of an anti era

621
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: group called Women who Want to Be Women, the w

622
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: W w W. This was happening across town. There was

623
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: also a woman named Nellie Gray. She was the president

624
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: of March for Life. They had their own big rally,

625
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: and this is where they really brought together. Like we

626
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, like hey, if you're if you lead a group,

627
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: a Catholic group or a conservative group or any sort

628
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: of this is where they started sort of dubbing themselves

629
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: the I don't know about traditional family, but just the

630
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: family movement, the pro family movement, right, which is a

631
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: bit of a thumb in the eye to the other side,

632
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: saying you don't care about families.

633
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: Exactly, you must be anti family standard grade school tactics,

634
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 2: and you still see it today oh.

635
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: You absolutely do. But this was the moment where they

636
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: got together on the other side of town and said,

637
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: everyone who is against this stuff come together and will

638
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: will at least try to put our differences aside and

639
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: coalesce as well.

640
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: Yes, they also got huge support from No Ma'am, the

641
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 2: National Organization for Men against Amazonian Masterhood, and I think

642
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: something like fifteen thousand people came out for this antier,

643
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 2: anti feminist rally that they held in opposition to the

644
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: Women's Conference. Remember the high end of Women's Conference was

645
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: thirty two thousand the lower and that the number ICEE

646
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: bandied about most often is around twenty thousand, So this

647
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: is a significant number of people in opposition coming to

648
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: Houston for this. And remember Philis Shaffley was like, I

649
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 2: don't think we should do this, and had Lottie Beth

650
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: Hobbs not been like, we're doing it anyway, this probably

651
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: never would have happened. And Philis Shafflee gets all like

652
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: across the board the credit for founding this rally. It

653
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 2: was almost all Lotti Beth Hobb But once Lotti Beth

654
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: Hobb was like, we're doing it anyway, Phylis Shaffley was like, Okay,

655
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: can't beat them, join them, And so she came and

656
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: spoke and in establishing a lot of like that, like

657
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: you said, thumb and the eye kind of tactics that

658
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: we still see today. The first thing she said when

659
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 2: when Philis Shafflee gave her remarks on stage, she thanked

660
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 2: her husband for allowing her to be there, and apparently

661
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: the crowd just went wild for that one. And one

662
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: of the other things that I saw is that a

663
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: lot of the people there had signs or boasted to

664
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 2: the press about how they had paid their own way

665
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: to make it there, which was a shot at the

666
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: women who needed help or government funding to attend the

667
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: Houston conference. It's not very nice stuff. So it was

668
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 2: a really very targeted, very specific, very effective anti er

669
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: anti women's conference rally, the pro family rally, and it

670
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: got a lot of press attention as well, Like people

671
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: would report from the women's conference then they go over

672
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: to the proe pro family rally and it was just

673
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: crazy amazing press.

674
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, And it was the moment where they were like,

675
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: not only did the press notice, but and this was

676
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: one of the bigger reasons why they did this is

677
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 1: they wanted and got the attention of the Republican Party.

678
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: So it's like all of this stuff wasn't officially platformed yet,

679
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: and or some of it wasn't, and so this was

680
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: when the Republican Party was like, all right, listen, we

681
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: need to platform all this stuff officially. And it was

682
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: just again, just this this three days. It's really incredible

683
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: how much it shaped things. I know, you found an

684
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: interview where Lottie Beth Hobbs, you know, because she was

685
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: from Houston and a Texan, like, had this big rally,

686
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: and like, what would have happened had this not even

687
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: been in Texas? And who knows? You can only speculate

688
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: of what would have happened. I imagine, you know, Jerry

689
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: Folwell came around not too long afterward anyway, So I'm

690
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: sure this movement would have taken hold, but maybe not

691
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: as soon.

692
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. Maybe not as soon, maybe not as tenaciously.

693
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 2: Because that rally, the pro Family rally that was in

694
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: opposition of the Women's Conference, it attracted fifteen thousand attendees,

695
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 2: that got the attention of a lot of different people,

696
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: including the Republican Party. But also it showed those people

697
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: the attendees, like hey, you're an orthodox Jew. Hey you're Catholic.

698
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: Hey you're an evangelical Christian. Hey, you just hate the

699
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 2: idea of the federal government overstepping its bounds. All of us,

700
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: we have all sorts of stuff that we disagree on.

701
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter because we all hate this other stuff more

702
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 2: and want it to not happen. So if we just

703
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 2: hang in together, if we just stay together, like we

704
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: can actually have a lot of political clout as a coalition.

705
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: That rally showed them that. So had that rally not happened,

706
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: it's entirely possible that coalition might not have formed or

707
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: not have formed in the way that it did form,

708
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: and it certainly wouldn't have formed in time to basically

709
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 2: take over the Republican Party and support the Reagan presidency

710
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: for the vast majority of the eighties. Like it's sounding

711
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 2: to think for good and bad, what how different the

712
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: United States would be? Like this is a turning point

713
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: in American modern American history this weekend.

714
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, it's crazy.

715
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: That was by the way, that was Marjorie's sprule again

716
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: that historian who was being interviewed in Houstonia magazine sisod interview.

717
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the outcome of all this was obviously you know,

718
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: they passed all these planks. They ride up their report,

719
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: I guess called the Spirit of Houston, and they handed

720
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: it over to President Carter and Congress. So Carter says,

721
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, I support all this stuff. Of course, your

722
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: goals look pretty great to me. But then, like I

723
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: said at the very very beginning, not a lot actually happened.

724
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: As far as real practical moves there was. They extended

725
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: the and we talked about this in my freshly remembered

726
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: era episode where there are a lot of different cutoff dates,

727
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: like you got to get it done by this year

728
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: or else it's off the table. He extended the time

729
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: for ratification to nineteen eighty two. There was some protections

730
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: against discrimination based on pregnancy. They said, hey, you can

731
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: get some Social Security benefits if you have been a

732
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: homemaker your whole life and you got divorced, Like we're

733
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: recognizing that as a job for the first time. And

734
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: a lot of feminists that were there were like pretty

735
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: upset by inaction and by the fact that Carter supported

736
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: the High Amendment, which totally took down the reproductive Funding Plank,

737
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: basically banning the use of federal funding for abortion.

738
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were also really mad at Carter for cutting

739
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 2: social programs to pay for increased defense spending as well,

740
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 2: which is not what you think of when you think

741
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: of Jimmy Carter. But apparently he got a little more

742
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,720
Speaker 2: conservative later in his presidency. And so it just essentially

743
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: went nowhere. Like if you read like assessments of what

744
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: came out of the Women's Conference of nineteen seventy seven

745
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: in Houston, most of the most of the positive silver

746
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: lining parts are that it helped women come together who

747
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: otherwise would not have ever met and basically swap strategies,

748
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: stop swap organizing methods, saying like, hey, we're organizing like

749
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: domestic abuse shelters and rape crisis centers, and this is

750
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: how we're doing it. And basically it helped on the grassroots.

751
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 2: It took a bunch of different germs and put them

752
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: together and they spread beneath the federal level and the

753
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: state and local level, and it really helped women advance

754
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 2: in that sense. But federally it went nowhere almost at all.

755
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 2: It went almost nowhere.

756
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, we talked a lot in this

757
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: episode about the fact that you know, galvanizing different kinds

758
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: of women together, but one that we haven't mentioned yet

759
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: that Lucy Kammas are don't turn around. She was a

760
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: nation reporter said to her, the most remarkable aspect was

761
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: not bringing together like necessarily bringing lesbians under their wing

762
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: and women of color, but bringing women who might typically

763
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: vote Republican in their past, bringing them in because they

764
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: cared about some of this stuff as well, and you

765
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: don't have to care about all of it to support

766
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: this thing. And she was just like, that was the

767
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: most remarkable part to her.

768
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, which makes a lot of sense. But unfortunately, one

769
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: of the other outcomes of that weekend was you do

770
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: have to choose, Like these groups, these coalitions solidified and

771
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: in opposition to one another, so and both of the

772
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 2: political parties were essentially forced to choose. There was no like, oh, actually,

773
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: I kind of agree with this point over here, So

774
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: I guess I'm independent. I don't know the state of

775
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 2: the country that we live in today, that polarized country.

776
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: You can actually date it back to this. This is

777
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: the cradle of it. It's I just can't stop being

778
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: in awe of the effect that it had.

779
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, I'm always very fascinated by the independent voter.

780
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: It's really interesting. To be clear, I'm not knocking independent voters.

781
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: I just i'd find it fascinating.

782
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: Sure, I wasn't knocking them either. It just made me

783
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 2: think of something else.

784
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: I was just trying to cut off the emails or

785
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: like Chuck didn't, Chuck thinks you should vote all one way.

786
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying.

787
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no no, I don't think that

788
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 2: came across like that at all. No. So ok yeah,

789
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: if anybody was sending in that email, they would have

790
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: been wrong, wrong, wrong, Have you got anything else?

791
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:26,919
Speaker 1: All right? No, I'm done, done, done.

792
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, Chuck said done three times in a row,

793
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 2: which of course automatically unlocks listener mail.

794
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: I thought that meant the candy man appeared.

795
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: The candy man reads listener mail. But the candy man

796
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 2: I'm talking about, you.

797
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,479
Speaker 1: Know, you mean the kind that brings you eminems and stuff, right.

798
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 2: No, the kind that smoked with a glass eye.

799
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: No, okay, all right, this is that's fromer, an eighth grader.

800
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 1: We love reading these kinds of things. Hey, Josh, Chuck

801
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: and Jerry. My name is Beatrix, great name. Yeah, I'm

802
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: an eighth grader in mckinville, Oregon. I listen to your

803
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: episodes constantly all caps, and I really wanted to make

804
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: it to your Portland show, but unfortunately I missed it.

805
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: My mom and I live almost an hour away from

806
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: where I go to school and where she works, so

807
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: we often listen to your stuff on the way. I

808
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: recently listened to the Rock, Paper Scissors app and you

809
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: mentioned that no one plays just refined, but without needing

810
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: to make a decision. But my class does and it

811
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: really annoys me because there's no point. Also, I would

812
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: love an episode on ADHD, specifically what causes it Beatrix.

813
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 1: That's coming sort of soon. I do have a small

814
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,919
Speaker 1: convention though, Guys, though I've been listening for over a year,

815
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: I still can't tell which one of you is which

816
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: That's okay. I can tell your voices apart, but if

817
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,919
Speaker 1: I was asked, I wouldn't be able to say which

818
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: one of you is Josh and which one is.

819
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: Chuck if we switched from time to time.

820
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: That's right, And if you go to that live show

821
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: in Portland next year, then you.

822
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: Can tell yeah, there you go. That's the way they

823
00:47:58,719 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: talk about cognitive DISMCE.

824
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: That's yeah, And how about this, Beatrix, send us an

825
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: email from that same thread when we go to Portland

826
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: next year and you and someone else can get on

827
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: the guest list.

828
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 2: Very nice.

829
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: How about that you'll get to that's freebe tickets. So

830
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: Beatrix finishes up by saying, I'd love if you gave

831
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: a shout out to tech stuff and stuff they don't

832
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: want you to know.

833
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: Nice. Oh, we're gonna shout them out. Hey, way to

834
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: go tech stuff and stuff they don't want you to

835
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: know too. Excellent podcasts, you have great take.

836
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: Coourse tricks, our longtime friends and colleagues sit to those shows.

837
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: And finally, I would love it if you would read

838
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: this on the air so me and my mom get

839
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: hear it on the way to school and wish me

840
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: good luck in high school next year.

841
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: Good luck Beatrix, high school kids. Fun.

842
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: You're gonna do great. Don't you worry about it. From

843
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: the sounds of this email, You're just gonna tear it apart.

844
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: I love it.

845
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 2: Knock it out of the park.

846
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: Knock it out of the park.

847
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 2: Well, if you want to be like Beatrix and send

848
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: us a just patently awesome email, you can send it

849
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 2: to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should

850
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 2: Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

851
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

852
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.