1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: a chance. 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 2: Good morning, give it a chance, Give it a chance, 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 2: Give it a chance, Give it a chance. 5 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 3: Good morning, Give it a Do you want to give 6 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 3: it a chance? 7 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Give it a chance, give it a chance. 8 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 3: Just give it a chance. It's your boy, hi keV Shopcase, 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 3: welcome to give it a chancing. 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: This is where we take a song people don't really 11 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: like and give it a chance. 12 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 3: They should be Sometimes a lot of people like anyway, 13 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 3: but like people like us who are assholes just like 14 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 3: to find things to say that are all cool about it. 15 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really don't know, like should we be setting 16 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: it up more like we hardly ever? 17 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 3: Like our show is. 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, like at the top, I think what we just 19 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: we just assumed that the that the chancers are the chances. 20 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 3: That sometimes I know on like, can we talk a 21 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 3: lot to talk about other podcasts on Spot? No? Oh okay, 22 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: Well let's just say that there's a pod I listened 23 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: to sometimes and it's comedic and you know. 24 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: It's a guess it's just like what we do, like 25 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: you have to. 26 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 3: Guess the imagine that was this entire episode. You know, 27 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: Let's just say sometimes on this pod you know, there's 28 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 3: there's a little thing they discuss called the CBB bump. 29 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 3: Let's just say that. Let's just say that, okay, but 30 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 3: every once in a while, and that pod has been 31 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 3: around forever and a lot of people listen to it. 32 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: They take a moment at the top to explain what 33 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: the pod is, the conceit of the pod, So maybe 34 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 3: we should do that case. So it's probably a good 35 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: thing to do. 36 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 2: Well. I have a question for you because last episode, 37 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 2: speaking of our chanswers, I did say that we would 38 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: do Chinese democracy. But I do think since we just 39 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: did a rock and roll from like a band. 40 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can come back. 41 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: Give it a break because because I do have a 42 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: band for this one, but it's expert mental, so I 43 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: thought that would be a nice change of people. 44 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 3: I think that's great. 45 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: We had just been talking about a rock and roll 46 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: band that like lost its footing. I felt like it's 47 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: close to Chinese democracy, so I thought maybe we need 48 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 2: a little breaky pooh. 49 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 3: I'm totally cool with that. And there's Chinese democracy will 50 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 3: be there forever. 51 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: Always, it's always. 52 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: It took forever and it'll be there forever. 53 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: It's I have a list of like chancy songs and 54 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: Chinese democracy has been towards the top for a very 55 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: long time. 56 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 3: I kind of amaze we haven't done it yet. Just 57 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: so people know, all Case scrolls through his listie hear it, 58 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 3: give it a chance. We listen to songs together that 59 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 3: often are like actually very almost actually always in their way, 60 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: are very successful songs. Songs that have in some way 61 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 3: touched the zeitgeist often have been like big hits, but 62 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 3: sometimes by we've done from age from literally you know, 63 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: a band that was concocted for commercials, when we did 64 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: one eight seven seven Cars for kids to the Beatles 65 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 3: and everything in between, stuff that's novelty, stuff that's not novelty, 66 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 3: stuff that might not know it's novelty anyway. And I 67 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 3: think what we're trying to find is they also tend 68 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 3: to be songs that to a different corner of the populace, 69 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 3: they're kind of like thought of as like cheesy or lightweight, 70 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 3: or you know, there's something about them that's almost like 71 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: a little disqualifying in spite of their maybe commercial success 72 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 3: and cultural success. So we kind of try to evaluate 73 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: the cultural imprint of that and give it a chance 74 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: on its own merits as a song or rip it 75 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 3: to shreds. No, we don't really rip shit to shreds. 76 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: I think we try to be pretty. I don't know. 77 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: I think we try to be diplomatic. 78 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 3: But we rip Diplo for sure, we did. 79 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: We are diplomatic. 80 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 3: We did that one Diplo Illmatic up where we're like, yes, 81 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 3: his remix of Illmatic just Diplo remix thing diplomatic, dipset 82 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: dipset dipp whoa. 83 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: It's interesting that you said that we do. It's interesting 84 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: you you mentioned we do hits and big songs, because 85 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: this song, I would say, is not a hit. It's 86 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: the beginning of a band that has like so what 87 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: I wanted to do as a band that I think 88 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 2: has has like a lot of indie cred, gets a 89 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 2: lot of praise, but they're still slightly divisive, and I 90 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: think that some of their stuff, and especially my wife 91 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 2: is like this stuff sounds like a bunch of animals 92 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: making noises. Ah, and that's telling to the name of 93 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: the band animal collective. 94 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: That is it. 95 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 3: Oh, I love this because this is great. This is great. 96 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: It's very different. It's it's different because I think there 97 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: might be a lot of listeners also that aren't familiar 98 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: with their work at all, and the work is sort 99 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: of very different from album to album, and I wanted 100 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: to go back to an early one ye that's particularly 101 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: the least is like come on, but I think it 102 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: has a lot of value to it. But also I 103 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 2: agree is a little come on. And that song is 104 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: called We Tigers, which is also an animal, so it's 105 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: maybe it's pretty on the nose. So please, especially if 106 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: you don't know it, give We Tigers a listen by 107 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: the band Animal Collective and we are going to collect 108 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 2: our animal thoughts. 109 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: Here we go. All right, that's a journey. 110 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: I'm excited to hear what you have to say because 111 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: I don't know your relationship with this band at all. 112 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: When this came out, I was like, I love this, sure, sure, 113 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 2: you know so I feel close to it. But I'm 114 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: also you know, I love being challenged on something that 115 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: you're like, that's formative, that you're like, okay, cool. And 116 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: I've challenged by my wife not liking it. No great, 117 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: and she's open to some of it, you know. Of course, 118 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: of course I like also that certain listeners they might 119 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: be like this is complete garbage. Well, I want to 120 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: know your I trust you, I like your opinion on things. 121 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: I'm so excited for this. 122 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 3: That's well what I think. What's cool about you choosing 123 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 3: this is actually, in a way it speaks to I 124 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 3: think what could be described as a potential achilles heel 125 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: of our show, which is, I would imagine there could 126 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: be a person that would listen to our show and 127 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 3: would not totally incorrectly or unfairly be like, oh so 128 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: these two like that we are a demographically like, there's 129 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 3: somebody that could be like these two white dudes from 130 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 3: Brooklyn who grew up you know, slight slight age difference, 131 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 3: but a lot of like indie rock exposure, let's say, 132 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 3: for lack and a lot of other things too, but 133 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 3: certainly like this is a podcast for what they like, 134 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 3: shit on popular things like I don't think that's what 135 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 3: we do. And I don't know, but I totally understand 136 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: why there might be somebody that would be like, you know, so, okay, 137 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 3: so you don't you don't like this? You know like this? 138 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 3: You know like this, but you like this? You know 139 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 3: what I mean? You know. I think for me the 140 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 3: truth is I don't have a depth of relationship to 141 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 3: Animal Collectives music. I think again, this is me lapsing 142 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: into what might be an achilles heel about me. And 143 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: I certainly if you ask any number of people in 144 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: my personal life and injected them with truths here them 145 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 3: they might say so. But like, I've always been interested 146 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: in the phenomena of things to a degree and like 147 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 3: kind of like what they do or don't mean. I 148 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 3: think this Animal Collective, I think is so indicative of 149 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 3: a very specific moment where it's kind of amazing, like 150 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 3: I hear that and I think of like Daniel Johnston 151 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: or I think of like where I'm like, there are 152 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: these moments in that song where like the thing that 153 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 3: you know, there's like these moments of like all of 154 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,679 Speaker 3: a sudden, there's this like moment of like kaleidoscopic beach 155 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: Boy's harmony that happened in the background. There's these there's 156 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 3: this spirit of invention and this spirit of like who 157 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 3: gives a fuck? That's kind of like really appealing. But 158 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: also it's not totally chaotic. There's a clear collagists I 159 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: don't know the right word collage artists mind at play here. 160 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: These guys are definitely like there there's moments that are circular. 161 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 3: There's moments where things call back, there's moments there's lyrics 162 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: that flirt with total absurdity, and then there are lyrics 163 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: that actually have a kind of like sweetness or there's 164 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: something in there that's like a kind of like buried gem. 165 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 3: But I think I do think of those like early 166 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 3: Daniel Johnston, pre record label, pre certainly major label, but 167 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 3: like him in his house with a tape recorder, like 168 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: like these weird sounds in the background. There's this spirit 169 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: of creativity and explore and exploration that I also totally 170 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 3: think is nuts that this music got as big as 171 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: it did. That's what I've always thought about a band 172 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: like Animal Collective is not even about I don't even 173 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: know if I'm positioned to judge its relative quality on 174 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 3: some level, because there are things about it everything I've 175 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 3: ever liked that veered towards a kind of experimentalism. We've 176 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: talked about this at times, whether it's things in the 177 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: Beatles catalog, or things in a band like Radioheads catalog, 178 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 3: or the existence of a band like Nirvana, or even 179 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: a person like a Leonard Cohen or and Elliott Smith 180 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: that's really formal, but like they take things about the 181 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 3: form and tweak it. I think about like peak Wilco. 182 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: For me, the thing that unites all that stuff is 183 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 3: they're fucking songs with a capital S at the middle 184 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: of them. They're just songs that then someone like bent 185 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: something about them, and I know I'm a sucker in 186 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 3: my heart. I'm a sucker for that capital S song. 187 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: And so unsurprisingly, I think the first thing I remember 188 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 3: by Animal Collective. I'm sure I heard them before, but 189 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 3: was my Girls. I remember being on tour and someone 190 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: putting that on and being like, oh, this is the 191 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 3: new Animal Collective, and I was like, oh, they wrote 192 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 3: like a song like this is like a thing that 193 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: you could actually like sing along with. And what I 194 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 3: remember is that year we played with not with them, 195 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 3: excuse me, that is a misdirecting statement. We played Lollapalooza 196 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 3: and they were one of the other two hundred bands 197 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 3: on Lallapalooza, and I remember like watching their set and 198 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 3: it was the crowd. It was a huge crowd, like 199 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 3: a main stage huge crowd, and you could see that 200 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 3: eighty five percent of those people were waiting for that 201 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: song and when they were playing this stuff and all 202 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: of the other extrapolations of experimentation that almost remind me 203 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 3: more of like Stravinsky or something than of a pop band. 204 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 3: The audience was like, what the fuck am I watching? 205 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: You know, like it was real? It was And I 206 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: don't think that bothered them. It seemed like they were 207 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: kind of like inerd to that. That's kind of what. 208 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 3: So I don't really know what I'm saying about. Like 209 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: I enjoyed listening to that song, I also know that 210 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, this song's only two minutes and 211 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: forty three seconds long, it feels like it's six minutes 212 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 3: long because of some of it's the interior logic that 213 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: makes sense in it. When you're first engaging it, you're like, 214 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 3: it's not like a verse chorus, verse chorus versus bridge 215 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 3: whatever it's like. But I totally I think a band 216 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 3: like this, I think it's always amazing to me that 217 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 3: shit like this exists. There will always be a part 218 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 3: of me that wishes I was more inclined towards making 219 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 3: shit like that. And the truth is I've always wanted 220 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 3: like a dash of this as seasoning in a stew 221 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: that is more song forward. 222 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: But yeah, because it takes a lot of confidence to 223 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: put this out. You know, that's a chance I give 224 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: it because this is. 225 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 3: Like one hundred percent yes. 226 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, you know, because part of it is, 227 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: you know, the there's there is that we talk about 228 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: like sort of that that indie like hipstery kind of opinion. 229 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: And you could say something like, oh, this is like 230 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 2: a ripoff of Smile by Brian Wilson and The Beach Boy, 231 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, right, that's that's the 232 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 2: question though, right, like as an influencer ripoff. But I 233 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: think that there's a lot going on under the surface, 234 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: which is like fun like they had especially at this 235 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 2: time with this record, like their lyrics like left a 236 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: lot of mystery. There's a lot of stuff that's about 237 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: you know, and this is some of this is like 238 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: the more you dig, the more you the more mystery 239 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: you find in a fun way. And you know, there's 240 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 2: just they always kind of talk about it's that it's 241 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: that sweet spot between being a child and like you know, 242 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: having to become an adult that he always like play 243 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 2: like we're one of the guys, always kind of plays 244 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: with lyricism like that, Yeah, and I like that he 245 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: doesn't do it over the head. You know, it's just 246 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: little BIPs and bobs, like little clues. Yeah, And I 247 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: think that's kind of fun and mysterious. Those are things 248 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: I like, really give a chance. But then also I 249 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: think that it's yeah, like it's it's I think they 250 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 2: become better at making songs and this has that hook. 251 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: Right totally. No no, yeah, no, no, no, no no, right, that's. 252 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: Fun and that's influenced from like I mean that that 253 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: influence can come from. 254 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: Which, by the way, that melody that when you sing it, 255 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 3: like that's separate from the song, separate. 256 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: From the words like an ice cream truck or something. 257 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: No it, but it also is a specific it's it's 258 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: a it's some Oh my god, I like it's. I 259 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: think it's from like like like Twilight Time or some 260 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: like fifties almost like Satin Glove do wop song. I'm 261 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: gonna have to look this up afterwards or try to 262 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: see if I can find it. 263 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 2: It does sound like a like a like a Latin 264 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: car horn. 265 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 3: Yes, and that comes from something, which makes me wonder 266 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 3: if this was almost like if the inclusion of that 267 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 3: and the challenge to write lyrics to it could have 268 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 3: even almost been like an in joke in the band, 269 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: like if someone's like, yeah, you know that melody, Like 270 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: what if we wrote words to that and made it 271 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: the chorus of the song. 272 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, Like it's fun. It's fun that that's 273 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 2: there too. It goes more into that mystery. Yeah, I 274 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: will say like and this brings us back to that 275 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: Beatles Revolution number nine, which is like it's tough to 276 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: put this out all the time. There's some songs on 277 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 2: this album that I love, and this is an album 278 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: that like I'll play all the way through. 279 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 3: The songs or which ya? 280 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 2: And there were songs that I think are in some 281 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: ways more indicative who they become that I was toying 282 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 2: with playing. There were some songs that I felt like 283 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: are easier to listen to. This was like right in 284 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: the middle because it's like it's got that drum. Yes, 285 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: that's that you either love or hate. Like it's like 286 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: it's propulsive. 287 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 3: There's a persistence to it that actually, in a weird way, 288 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: I think grounds it. I don't sorry. I what's interesting 289 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 3: is I feel like I have a tendency to sometimes 290 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 3: build up something like an animal collective song to almost 291 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 3: like like thinking it's going to be like fifty percent 292 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: more experimental than it is, which maybe that sounds crazy, 293 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 3: but where I'm like, oh, this is going to be 294 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: like unlistenable, and it's like, no, it's not unlistenable. It's 295 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: like it kind of sounds like people took mushrooms and 296 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 3: like just was like writing a bunch of like like 297 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 3: a stream of consciousness and then it was sculpted. That's 298 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 3: not an unsculpted song. There are like things that happen 299 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: that are that become like there are events, and there's 300 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 3: even events that repeat. I think if you're like looking 301 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 3: too deeply from meaning in it, I think that you 302 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 3: are sort of maybe doing yourself a disservice, meaning like 303 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 3: if you need the song to be like narrativized. But 304 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 3: I think what you're talking about, which is a more 305 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 3: overarching thing which reminds me of something like a writer 306 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: like Stephen Malkmus or something like that, especially earlier in 307 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: Pavement or probably to a degree even like certain Yeah, 308 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 3: that generation of of indie rock songwriters or whatever, like 309 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: people in Sonic Youth or whatever. It really was more 310 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 3: like Jackson Pollock than like some sort of like renaissance 311 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 3: you know, still Life or something hyper like it was, 312 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: or maybe Picasso in there a little bit too, But 313 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 3: I think I think of that whole. This approach to 314 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: lyric writing is way more like you're throwing splashes of 315 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 3: paint and it's very vivid, and I do think when 316 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 3: you step away from it you can find resonance and meaning. 317 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 3: But if you were like looking to find like the 318 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 3: fully defined outline of a woman or something and it 319 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: or you know, you might be like, I don't see that, 320 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: but that's not what you're supposed to see. So I 321 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: also think that success of something like this depends I 322 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: guess with all things, it depends on the ears of 323 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: the beholder, but also like what they were setting out 324 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 3: to do, I think a band like this is very successful, 325 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 3: just like right said Fred was in what they were 326 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 3: setting out to do. Like if you hit the mark 327 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: with what you were setting out to do, there is 328 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 3: a version of that that will always be successful, whether 329 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: or not I like it or not. But what we're 330 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 3: talking about is what we think. 331 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 2: It is kind of strange now that you say it, 332 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 2: Like painting had to become experimental, right like with the 333 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: advent of it, like of a camera you saw, you know, 334 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: and photography getting bigger and bigger. The job of a 335 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: painter kind of no longer became portraits, right, or it 336 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 2: still was, but you can have more fun now. 337 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 338 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: Basically yeah, and expressionism all that came at the same time, 339 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 2: and you know, you get to your Matisse, your picassos 340 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: Kandinsky's like all that stuff, and that was what was 341 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: popular and then it's just gotten more, not more experimental, 342 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: but experimental in different ways, like mixed media things like that. 343 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: It is strange that music hasn't really followed that. Of 344 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: course there's always experimental, but like the mainstream, right, and 345 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 2: it's not an it's not a one for one, but 346 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 2: it is strange. But I mean, and maybe maybe I'm wrong, 347 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: and maybe like if you took a person from like, 348 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: you know, the nineteen fifties and you brought them now 349 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 2: and you played them an arian A Grande song, they'd 350 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 2: be like, what is going on with this? Like sonically, 351 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 2: we're so. 352 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 3: Sonically for sure, go finish your thought. I don't know. 353 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: Sonically, I think there's probably like you know, there's so 354 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: much like you know, you know, pads like like keyboards. 355 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 3: And just information. 356 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like you know, if you put 357 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: on like Scizza or a person from the nineteen forties, 358 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: it would blow their mind no matter what. But sonically. 359 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 2: But I agree though that I think what you were 360 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: going to say, I agree with what you were going 361 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: to say. I agree with what I think you were 362 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: going to say. Just where was it going to be? 363 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: That it this? It's just a straightforward song. 364 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 3: What I think the thing, what I think maybe you're 365 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 3: leading me to think about, is the role of popular 366 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 3: music in culture versus the role of something like especially 367 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 3: like maybe music you're talking about like the relative rates 368 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: of evolution and experimentalism in these forms. Maybe pop music 369 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: is less like new modes. I'm maan sure there are 370 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: papists who would say that I don't mean this as 371 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 3: a degradation. I mean it more as a contextualization. I 372 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 3: think for every like critic or or you know, sort 373 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 3: of like a forward thinking whatever, kind of like student 374 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 3: of this shit that would make the argument that like, no, dude, 375 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 3: like there is like crazy experimentalism and like the studio 376 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 3: work of like Justin Bieber now or something, and there 377 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: is like the production wise and with respect to how 378 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 3: things are layered, And but I kind of feel like 379 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 3: maybe the role of mainstream music is more like the 380 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 3: paintings of a beautiful sunset or or or like you know, 381 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,239 Speaker 3: boats and a dock at your dentist's office than it 382 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: is to be like like, I don't think or I 383 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: don't think that most people are going to popular music 384 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 3: for experiments. Listen. I think most people are going to 385 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 3: popular music for like something to have on while they 386 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: do the dishes, or to dance to on a Saturday night. 387 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 3: And I think the moments were a thing that does 388 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 3: become super popular but is formally challenging in some way, 389 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 3: or I don't know, thinking of things that become Kendrick 390 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: Lamar played the Super Bowl. Now there are things in 391 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 3: Kendrick Lamar's catalog. I'm not the fucking most like died 392 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 3: in the wool hip hop head that I can tell 393 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 3: you all that, But I know from listening to like 394 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 3: a bunch of other charting hip hop artists and listening 395 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: to like all of a Kendrick Lamar album, there's moments 396 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 3: on a Kendrick Lamar album that sound like they could 397 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 3: be on the radio. And then there's moments on a 398 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 3: Kendrick Lamar album where I'm like, this is like, you 399 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 3: know what I thought listening to kid A in two thousand, 400 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 3: but in this sort of like popular and again the 401 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: guy from Aphex Twin thought radio had sucked when they 402 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 3: put kid A out and was like, why is everyone 403 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 3: shooting themselves about this? Like people are making more interesting 404 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 3: square push or and whatever or else, like there's so 405 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: much more interesting versions of this, but that's not the 406 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 3: shit that's ever gonna be like on the radio or MTV. 407 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 3: Animal Collective was like a weird bridge. Also, culture and 408 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 3: media were changing yet again when they came, but they 409 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 3: didn't have the career like Vampire Weekend has had. You 410 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 3: weren't like it wasn't like you know what I mean 411 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 3: Vampire Weekends like and even they're like an idiosyncratic entity 412 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 3: compared to like I guess Coldplay now or imagine Dragons 413 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 3: or something. They're not the same thing. But I also 414 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 3: don't think Animal Collective and Vampire Weekend are the same thing. 415 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And going back to art, maybe it's more 416 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: like a Jeff Kuhon situation right where it's like he's 417 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 2: not doing anything that's crazy experimental, but he's there's there's 418 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: obviously you know, a team and talent behind that and 419 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: like to make these pieces and they are outlandish in 420 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: some way, but you wouldn't be like that's experimental, but 421 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: it you know, like just as to bring it back 422 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: to like the one for one, because yeah, yeah, there's 423 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: still commercialism and selling things and putting things in front 424 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: of people. 425 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 3: I just talked for a long time, so I feel 426 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 3: like I don't want to keep talking because what you 427 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: just yeah, I mean all of it has Look you're like, 428 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 3: all of this stuff exists in a marketplace, and there's 429 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 3: a difference maybe between like the marketplace and like late 430 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: stage capitalism. The marketplace has existed forever. Whatever it is 431 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: that we're suffering now is a really different thing for 432 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 3: ninety percent of the people on earth. But it's not 433 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 3: like animal collective they like. I also think. I think 434 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 3: about an artist like this and like they were, it's inseparable, 435 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: unseparable whatever. You cannot separate it to me from like 436 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 3: the moment and the context in which they came to fruition. 437 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 3: This is like a story of art damaged kids in 438 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 3: North Brooklyn in the early to mid two thousands, just 439 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 3: like trying shit in an environment where there's a bunch 440 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 3: of other people trying shit and it gave birth to 441 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 3: a million bands, a very spirit range of bands, but 442 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 3: all of whom we're very much trying to like exist 443 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 3: in the marketplace. Which is not a negative or a pejorative. 444 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 3: It just is true. Everybody that's evered. I sell my records. 445 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 3: I want people to buy tickets to the shows. There's 446 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 3: another degree to it, though, which I think of when 447 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 3: the art world comes into it, or when like strata 448 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: in like when an indie band becomes a like successful band. 449 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 3: That's like where the marketplace all of a sudden becomes 450 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 3: something else where. It becomes like a sign of status 451 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 3: to have a Kuon's in your living room or to 452 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 3: know and and that stuff. There's something in there. I 453 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 3: guess you could fucking grow all the way back to 454 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: like the Medici and whatever else, but there's something in 455 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 3: there where. It's like there's a Warhol moment in there 456 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 3: where it suddenly becomes like you know what I mean. 457 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 3: Like I do think that there's like some weird black 458 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: hole or wormhole or some other fucking thing I'm not 459 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 3: going to get right that something has to travel through 460 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 3: to go from like kids in rehearsal spaces on like 461 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: North Forth and Kent in two thousand and five, Like, 462 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 3: what would it sound like if we did this to 463 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 3: like the stage at Lallapalooza, you know what I mean? 464 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 2: Like the late night shows? Yes, And did you ever 465 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: see this? There was sort of this one around Animal 466 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 2: Collective was on. I just found the clip of it, 467 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 2: but I don't know what show it was. But anyway, 468 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 2: they were on a late night show and someone put 469 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 2: on the clothes captioning and there's two things in parentheses 470 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 2: and it said woman vocalizing, man speaking backwards. 471 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 3: Oh dude, I have seen that. That Still, that's amazing. 472 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 2: I love that For people who don't know, there's there's 473 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 2: no woman in the group, and it's just I love 474 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 2: man the. 475 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 3: Best of our knowledge, no one speaking backwards. It's not 476 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 3: the little guy from the David Lynch movies or whatever. Yeah, yeah, 477 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 3: the man from another place. 478 00:24:54,280 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, so funny. I mean. 479 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 3: And look, that's the thing where I don't know, I 480 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 3: don't even know if any of what I'm saying resonates 481 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 3: makes sense. I trust that it does. On some level. 482 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 3: I feel like they're they're making no bones about wanting 483 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 3: to be like this is an art project. It's an 484 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 3: art project that but I do think there is a 485 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 3: color in their art project. It's not like animal collectives, 486 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 3: Like you can't identify the data that goes into it. 487 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 3: You can totally hear. It's so funny that thing you 488 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 3: brought up about Smile or the Beach Boys. Then the 489 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 3: like like I remember like Mike Fatom, who played drums 490 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: in our band Forever, showing me what pointing out on 491 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 3: some of those records that like sometimes there's just like 492 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 3: a ride being hit one, two, three, four for like 493 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 3: eight minutes in a song. That's what's happening to like, 494 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 3: it's like both and then it becomes like hypnotic or 495 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 3: kind of like there is an aspect of it that 496 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 3: almost becomes this swirl, but it's just from the rhythmic. 497 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 3: It's like a metronome, but a metronome that's being hit 498 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 3: on a ride symbol. That's kind of what that propulsive 499 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 3: tom drum thing feels like to me? Is it both 500 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 3: but also like that sort of feels like that gives 501 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 3: it that brings it into the realm of sort of 502 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 3: like traditional song in a weird way. It's just like 503 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 3: somebody hitting four on the floor on a tom drum. 504 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 3: That's in a million things. Maybe they don't do it 505 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 3: for three minutes in a million things. It might be 506 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 3: like the verse and then the snarrow come in or 507 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 3: whatever else, but the data is all and that pastiche 508 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 3: lyrical malk miss that thing where it's like cutting up, 509 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: you know, Tom Waits. Tom Waits talked about like how 510 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 3: do you write your songs? I opened the newspaper with 511 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 3: my wife and we cut up lines from the newspaper 512 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 3: and glue them in different orders or whatever on a page. 513 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 3: But then it's like everything iterates and they're definitely doing 514 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 3: a thing that's like, you know, they're taking all of 515 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: that stuff and putting it in a blender, and what 516 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 3: comes out is also like whatever they were bound by 517 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 3: what's the word technologically, like how they weren't in a 518 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 3: studio with Capitol Records money making Smile for five years 519 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 3: or whatever. They were like kids in a fucking room 520 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 3: somewhere in North Brooklyn at this point. And that's part 521 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 3: of what makes it fun and adventurous. I guess it's 522 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 3: like I don't even know if what you're looking for 523 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 3: from like give it, to give this a chance, or 524 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 3: to disqualify it. If it's like where's the song? Well, 525 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 3: then you're going to disqualify it. But if it's like, yes, 526 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 3: it succeed on its own terms. I think something like 527 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 3: this is like, yeah, that's it's cool. It's there. They're 528 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 3: doing what they want. 529 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 2: You know, what they do really well is you know 530 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: how it's very different. But you know how in like 531 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: club music, there's this sort of patience that you know, 532 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: people who like are go to clubs like they're waiting 533 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: for like a beat to build and then to drop, 534 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 2: and there's that, you know, there's that moment that they 535 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: wait for over and over again. And part of that 536 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 2: is psychedelics or just or or you know, drugs like yeah, 537 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: making that feel cooler, and they wait for those moments. 538 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: And then so then when they go listen to music 539 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 2: at home, it still reminds them of when they've been 540 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: at a club. Yes, they still get right. I don't 541 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: collective does that a lot from their career. For I've 542 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 2: noticed they have a lot of like these patient moments, 543 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 2: and sometimes it's like they will make something a little 544 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 2: bit more atonal and a little bit more dissonant, and 545 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 2: then they'll they'll resolve right, like and they have done 546 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 2: that really well across the years. And then like even 547 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 2: that My Girls song and that record in general, they 548 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: were influenced by a lot of that stuff. There's a 549 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: lot of like building intension and then release, and this 550 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: is like a small example of it. Like when when 551 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: you know the song a few times and then it 552 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 2: gets to that like it's the drum stops, it's. 553 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 3: Like, you know, a moment, it's an event. 554 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a microcosm I think of like what 555 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: they do well. So it's kind of fun on their 556 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 2: first album that they they hit they hit that, and 557 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: that they refine that over time. So I do think 558 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: like if if for people who are hearing this the 559 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 2: first time and they're like hearing whoa, whoa, whoa, yea 560 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 2: moments like that, Like I know Lisa doesn't love that, 561 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: but she does like some of their later work and 562 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: like it's it's so crazy to hear. Like the reason 563 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 2: I thought of this is like that guy Panda Bear, 564 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: who's one of the Animals, put out a record and 565 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: it's really straightforward yeah right, and it's and it's like 566 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 2: the most straightforward thing he's done and still like has 567 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: moments of experimental you know, songwriting and structures and sounds, 568 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 2: but it's compared to this, it's and and I and 569 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: again I don't think that this is too wacky. 570 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 3: But I think you're you're pointing out something. Yeah, it's 571 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 3: like that also indicates the personalities in a band too, 572 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 3: and that's what makes a band inherently some like most 573 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: of the time more more interesting than just like a 574 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 3: guy is like, you have this range of ideas in 575 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 3: the room, and maybe there's like one guy and I 576 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 3: don't know them personally, I don't, you know, but it's 577 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 3: like I wonder if there's like I'm sure there's shared 578 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 3: vocabulary between all of them, but I also wonder if 579 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 3: there's like one guy an animal collective who's like more 580 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 3: the like you know, surfing us, a beach boys guy, 581 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 3: and then there's one guy who's more the like whatever 582 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 3: the drown Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. And I think, you know, 583 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 3: and I do think that what you talked about earlier, 584 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 3: that that what you just said made me reflect on too, 585 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 3: is like I don't know, I'd like to think someone 586 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 3: might give it a chance, just because for three minutes 587 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 3: it's like this isn't like what you're going to hear 588 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 3: anywhere else you move through your day probably and like 589 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 3: most spaces, you're not gonna be like a grocery store 590 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 3: and this is gonna come on. You're not going to 591 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 3: be like in your dentist's office and this is gonna 592 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: come on. 593 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 2: That would be fun cool. 594 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 3: I'm sure there are some dentists' offices in North Brooklyn 595 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 3: where this might come on, or at least there were, 596 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 3: But I do think that, like it's funny. I remember 597 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 3: when I was my niece, who's now like a grown 598 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 3: up on nurse and like, you know, a person, but 599 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 3: when she was like a kid kid, we were watching 600 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 3: the Grammys once at my brother's house and it was 601 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 3: the year that Radiohead was nominated for uh in Rainbows 602 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 3: for a bunch of Stuff, and they performed and they 603 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 3: did fifteen step with like a with like a like 604 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 3: a brass band or something, and I remember I was like, oh, 605 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 3: this is amazing. Like I still at that point, even 606 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 3: with the band as big as them, we'd been on 607 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 3: Capitol and whatever else, there's still a point where I 608 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 3: was like, it's kind of crazy. Whenever you see something 609 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: like that in a context like that still feels weird 610 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 3: to see. And I remember my niece was like, you know, eight, 611 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 3: and it ended, and she was like I hated that, 612 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 3: you know, and remember being like, oh, yeah, that's interesting, 613 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 3: Like she's got no it's not like she's reading Pitchfork 614 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 3: or whatever. She just was like watching that and was. 615 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: Like a zero one hundred, Yeah this sucks. 616 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: Where's the song? But also there's something I feel like 617 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 3: when my my daughter would hear like Daniel Johnston the 618 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 3: thing you talked about earlier that was about like there's 619 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 3: a childlike thing in this music that I do think 620 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 3: and that isn't like I don't know I think about 621 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 3: that like you know, Calvin Johnson, Beat Happening, all that 622 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 3: K record stuff, definitely the Beach Boys. Parts of Brian 623 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 3: Wilson's brain, there is this like, yeah, thing that's like 624 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 3: about a kind of like because I think maybe it's 625 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 3: like a sense of like silliness, playfulness, abandon and also 626 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 3: like not self consciousness. That's what it is that I 627 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 3: think is like to me, that's that's always to be 628 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 3: given a chance because the world's going to try to 629 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: strip that out of you as much as possible, as 630 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 3: often as possible. 631 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: This is a kid song. You know, I didn't think 632 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: about that, but it's like, if I actually want to 633 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 2: play this for my three and a half year old 634 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: daughter and see what she thinks, because it's so it 635 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 2: feels like something that like, you know, Peter Pan and 636 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 2: the Lost Boys would make or something. 637 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 3: That she could make up in some way, like and 638 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 3: I know, not to disparage animals, you know what, I know. 639 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: I think they would say I think they might say 640 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: that too, or because it's very simple and they are 641 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: talented musicians, but of course they're like, let's like they're 642 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: intentionally making this simple and it's it's really Yeah, it 643 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: is so kid like and not kid like in the 644 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: way that but similar to that, like they might be giants, 645 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 2: like just can appeal to children because some of it, 646 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: especially later, they started making songs for kids. But like 647 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 2: I put on Flood recently just to see what she 648 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 2: thought of it, and she didn't react much, and I 649 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 2: was like, these are kid songs in some ways, like 650 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 2: a lot of them feel like what a kid song 651 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: sounds like, even though I don't think at the time 652 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 2: they were really trying to do that. 653 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like the there's a kind of like 654 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 3: there's something about the earnestness of it, and I don't 655 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 3: mean earnest like like there's different definitions of that word. 656 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 3: Not not Yeah, I don't mean like goes to camp. 657 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 3: I meant it more like Ernest goes to space. No, 658 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 3: I don't know is did they ever go to space? 659 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 3: In the Earnest verse? 660 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: Not yet? 661 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 3: Get on that, get to the people, you know, right, 662 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 3: Ernest seven? Did Jim Varney pass Is he resting in power? 663 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: He passed on the project? 664 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 3: Oh he did? You see? So? Yeah? Yeah, yeah he's dead, 665 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 3: but he definitely passed on the project. 666 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 2: You were saying there, there's yeah, there's an earnestness, there's an. 667 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 3: Openness and like I feel like the way they sing, 668 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm thinking of like bird even like 669 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 3: their biggest hit, like Birdhouse in Your Soul. There's something 670 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 3: about it that it also makes me feel like stand 671 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 3: by r EM. There's only like one or two genetic 672 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 3: code pieces of code missing between that Birdhouse and your Soul, 673 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 3: and like stand by r E M. There's this like 674 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 3: you know, and I feel like that to me always 675 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 3: totally yes. And you're like, did you write that nu 676 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 3: Stanbul not constantinople it all? 677 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's that part and that particle man, 678 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 2: that's like a D eight eight eighty, like it's similar 679 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 2: to this song and it's like it's so catchy, but 680 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: it feels like Date eight eighty. I love it like 681 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: it's it, you know, and I don't know, Yeah, it's 682 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 2: it's fun. 683 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 3: I wanted to. 684 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 2: Ask you, though, like, is there a record of yours 685 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 2: that you feel is the most experimental I ever thought 686 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 2: of what it probably is, but I wanted to see 687 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 2: in your opinion. 688 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 3: I mean, I think that when I listened, like I said, 689 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 3: when I listen to music that's actually I know that 690 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 3: my music is so song forward and so like kind 691 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 3: of like indebted to really a group of like a 692 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 3: half dozen or so, in particular, a half dozen or 693 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 3: so or ten artists and maybe like a handful of 694 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: like subgenres within a scene, a loose scene. I think it. 695 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 3: I think it depends how you define those words. Like 696 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 3: I think there's a breadth of styles represented on a 697 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 3: record like Brother's Blood. I think that there's a conscious 698 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 3: choice to kind of we tried to make some like 699 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 3: kind of dense sort of like a lot of like 700 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 3: MIDI information inside of three and four minute songs on 701 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 3: something like Concrete and Clouds, which is like a folk 702 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 3: rock record, but there's these like weird sort of like 703 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 3: spookinesses in it and some synth exploration. I feel like 704 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 3: the last record we made is the most like we 705 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 3: were intentionally, Chris Brocco and I it was like we 706 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 3: were highlighting those records like It's a Wonderful Life by 707 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 3: Sparkle Horse, What's the one that has a Soft Bullet 708 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 3: and by Flaming Lips, Ghost is Born by Wilco White album. 709 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 3: Not that I think we reached those qualitative heights, but 710 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 3: I mean, like really that the pinnacle for us of 711 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 3: like song records that then took the songs and like 712 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 3: pulled them in weird directions. But I also think all 713 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 3: my songs are pretty much rooted around like you know, 714 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 3: a guy playing guitar and some instruments behind him. 715 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 2: So but you're you're saying that nothing's real, so nothing's wrong. 716 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 2: It's like it feels that's the one that you're talking about. 717 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 3: That right now. It does to me. Yeah, I think so. 718 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 2: I was actually going to say that I think there 719 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 2: are moments on bubble Gum right totally right that, Yeah. 720 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: I got confused. Pull. 721 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 2: I guess think that one bubble Gum has like I 722 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 2: think I remember you talking to you and that you 723 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 2: felt often that you were you were pushed into directions 724 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 2: or even the rest of your band was pushed into 725 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 2: directions to work, to do something, you know, to push 726 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 2: a little bit more into the bag, or something you know, 727 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 2: which is well, I think that record, get that from 728 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: all your producers. 729 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 3: Though, well, I think that record was a genre the thing. 730 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 3: Maybe the reason I don't think of that record on 731 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 3: some level as experimental is not an accurate reflection, but 732 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 3: it's because it is a genre record, Like it's totally like, 733 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 3: let's make our version of a punk album. And so 734 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 3: I think there's a degree to which I actually thought 735 00:37:58,239 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 3: there were aspects of that record where it was like 736 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 3: very clear the colors we were to paint in, if 737 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 3: that makes sense. But I also think there are things 738 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 3: within those songs and within that color palette. We made 739 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 3: that record with Jesse from Brand New, and there was 740 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 3: things about him being like such a song person but 741 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 3: also such like an accomplished loud rock band person with 742 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 3: like again in that band, there's these moments of experimentalism, 743 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 3: especially from like two thousand and six seven forward or onward, 744 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 3: that I think, like him being in the mix on 745 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 3: that that was certainly what was being pushed was like, yo, 746 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 3: like how do we make this x percent crazier like 747 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 3: with the with sonic instrument presentation? 748 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, like fiscal Cliff right or certainly, and what's the 749 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 2: one that the Stranberg instrumental. 750 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 3: Oh copy Bara? 751 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, those are two pretty like like I remember 752 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 2: where and where I was when I heard fiscal Cliff 753 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 2: for the first time, and I was like thrilled by it, 754 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 2: and I was like this is so at the time 755 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 2: it felt very different. But well that's eon of what 756 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 2: you know, what you like, and who I know of you. 757 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 3: That goes into a great way to maybe tie this 758 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 3: all up, which is like, again, all of these words 759 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 3: are subjective. They mean things, but they're subjective. Like so 760 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 3: in context a song like fiscal Cliff and if you 761 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 3: don't have any I mean, I guess people listen to this, 762 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 3: maybe a bunch of from do know it. I'm sure 763 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 3: there are a bunch that don't know our music. But 764 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 3: there's that's a song that almost like in some places 765 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 3: sounds like it could be a Dead Kennedy song, in 766 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 3: some place it sounds like it could be a Pearl 767 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 3: Jam song, and some place it sounds like it could 768 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 3: be ye, and then there are aspects of that that 769 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 3: are like, why that's experimental. I don't know if that's 770 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 3: an experimental song. Why that's an experimental song? In hour 771 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 3: Slash my catalog is that it takes a color I 772 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 3: might have painted in for two lines or for twenty 773 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 3: seconds in a song, and it pegs it to the 774 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 3: red and lets it go there for three minutes. And 775 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 3: so that becomes then an exploration of what does it 776 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 3: mean to experiment? Is it that everything? Is it like 777 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 3: the most radical sounding or is it just like a 778 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 3: departure for that artist. Like if I made a song 779 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 3: tonight that sounded like a quiet storm R and B 780 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 3: song and I played it with the straight face and 781 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,359 Speaker 3: I wasn't being cute or funny about it, that would 782 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 3: be experimental, even if it sounds like Luther Vandros and 783 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 3: not like John Cale or something. 784 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 2: So that's and it's also up to the listener too. 785 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 2: That's of course finishes the listener or the person that 786 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 2: goes to finishes all art, right, And so yeah, that's 787 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 2: interesting too because they'll be like, no, this is just 788 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 2: Luther Vandros. 789 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,240 Speaker 3: Or like totally, like if I said to some people 790 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 3: if I was like, yo, this is a punk record, 791 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 3: there might be some people who listened to Bubble going back, 792 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 3: what are you talking about? Like punk? To whom? You 793 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 3: know what I mean? So all of those things. But 794 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 3: I think what, at the very least, at the bare minimum, 795 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,319 Speaker 3: I think that a band like Animal Collective invites this 796 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,919 Speaker 3: kind of depth of consideration. And again that's objective because 797 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 3: there may be people who listen to this episode and 798 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 3: be like, well, that was you know, fucking dog shit 799 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 3: alf No, never listen to that again. But to me, 800 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 3: it like prompts. It prompts discussion, It prompts you you 801 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 3: want to like pick some things apart, and also there's 802 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,320 Speaker 3: some things that you just want to like let u 803 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 3: let the mystery sit. There's something cool about that too, 804 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 3: Like I don't need to know everything. It's kind of 805 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 3: cool to have to guess a little bit. But that's 806 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 3: my that's that's my. 807 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 2: And that's that's our take on Chinese democracy. 808 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 3: Folks, gn R hope you enjoyed it. Axel, don't sue us. 809 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 2: We're gonna do that song. We're gonna do that. 810 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 3: A song should do it as a season. The whole 811 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 3: record it's just the name too, It's insane. 812 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 2: We're gonna We're all get it. 813 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 3: I too. 814 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 2: I have to just say that Bill Burr quote about 815 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 2: like by the time that he put it out music, 816 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 2: it had changed three times. 817 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 3: I like, how much from building this up, Like someday 818 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 3: you will hear. 819 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: Us today, guys. 820 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well we'll get to it one day, guys. 821 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 3: But not today, no chance. Chancers. 822 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 2: Thanks for listenings. 823 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 3: Best of days. Go listen to all 824 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 2: Of those experimental Kat songs.