1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: The volume. 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntire. What is up 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: straight Fire, fam, It's me Jason McIntyre. Straight Fire for Wednesday, 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: August second. Got a great guest today on the podcast, 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: Mike Sando from The Athletic. He is the author of 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: the Tears piece that is sweeping the internet as everybody 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 2: gets ready for fantasy football gambling NFL. We're now what 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: thirty six hours away from Jeth's Brown's and preseason action 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: fully begins in earnest next weekend. I'll be out of 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: town next weekend. Part's unknown. It's an exciting podcast. You 11 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: guys are gonna like it. Sando and I kind of 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: disagree on some quarterbacks, agree on some other stuff, and 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: he talks about the process and what he you know, 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: what it was like seeing some of these massive leaps, 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: some of the I mean, Jalen Hurts's leap is quantum 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: and it's like one year. Really, So we get into that, 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: you guys will like it real quick. I did. Before 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: we get the Sando. I want to touch on this 19 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 2: two things actually, So first of all, US women's soccer team, 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: in the middle of the night laid a massive egg. 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: It would have been colossal and historically bad. If Portugal's 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: shot in the ninety first minute didn't hit the post 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: to win in the net, then we would have lost. 24 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: US settle for zero zero tie. They advance as the 25 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,639 Speaker 2: number two seed, which has thrown off so many things. Folks, 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: it is so bad for the US, Like, you don't 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: understand how bad this tie was. Overall, they've played like garbage. 28 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: I would say, in five out of the six halfs 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: they've been equal or worse than their opponent. They now 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: play Sunday at five am. Then they play next Friday, 31 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 2: assuming they win at three thirty am the semi finals, 32 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: they would play in the worst game at four am, 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: like because they got put into like the second tier 34 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 2: because they finished second in the group. They're not getting 35 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: the favorable time slot. Everybody anticipated, Oh the US, they 36 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: might win their third World Cup. They'll be in their 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: favorite time slot. They're gonna win their group and advance. 38 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: And now it's like, whoa, this is not good, not 39 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: gonna be good at all for Fox and worse yet, 40 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: let's be real, this women's team does not look good. 41 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: They don't look ready for prime time. Carly Lloyd going 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: after them, it's just not great, you know, watching it. 43 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: I'm on a couple text threads with some dads who 44 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: play soccer in my area and they coach and everything. 45 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: They someone play college and it's like the coaching does 46 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: not look great and the team looks old and slow. 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: And I would just say the one thing that I've noticed, 48 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: and again this is on a granular level, but anytime 49 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 2: you win a championship, the targets on your back. Everybody's 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: coming for you. They're giving their a game all the time. 51 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: We won two in a row. Vietnam came out and 52 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: remember the spread was six and a half. I was like, 53 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 2: that's a layup. The US will smoke them, and it 54 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: was like one nothing at halftime. Now they did outshoot them, 55 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: I think twenty three zero, twenty seven nothing, something like that. 56 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 2: But Vietnam played incredible. Their goalie was outstanding, and the 57 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: US only won three to nothing. By the way, Netherlands 58 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: beat them seven nothing, and they didn't get the number 59 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: one seed in the group. And then the uninspiring tie 60 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: against Netherlands when they trailed for much of the match, 61 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 2: and then the Portugal game which they slept walked through, 62 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: was like geez, I mean if that goal had gone 63 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 2: into the US is going home. All this nonsense that 64 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: they've been talking about. We don't get the respect of 65 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: the men's team. We don't. It's almost like they focus 66 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: too much on that and less on the soccer. They 67 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: just don't look nearly as good. Disappointing stuff, but it's 68 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: not over. They could still win the World Cup. The 69 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: other story is the Major League Baseball trade deadline. Like 70 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: ten to fourteen days ago looked awesome. It was like 71 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: exciting because what Tani was in it. And then the 72 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: Angels decided we're gonna make a push, We're gonna keep Otani, 73 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: and it was like it lost all the juice. And 74 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: then the big move was Verlander. Ben Verlander was a 75 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: guest on the Pod last week. His brother Justin got 76 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: traded back to the Astros. The Mets fire sale is 77 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: in full swing. Just an absolute dumpster fire in Shay 78 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: or do they still call Shay or No City Bank, 79 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, City City Bank Park. I think it is. 80 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: I have I I don't remember, it's been so long 81 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: since I lived in New York. But all in all, 82 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: like the Mets have to be the least impressive team 83 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: this season. The biggest disappointment. Yankees will get to the playoffs. 84 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: I'm confident in that. But this o Tani thing, it's 85 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: like the excitement of him maybe moving teams was juicy 86 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 2: as hell, and it would have been the double bonus 87 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: because somebody would have had him for three months on 88 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: a rental, been wooing him to try to secure him, 89 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: and that he would have hit free agency and it 90 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 2: would have been another mad scramble. So baseball really missed 91 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: out here on some fun, fun times. And I know 92 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: Anaheim should not care about that, but if they lose 93 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: him for nothing, they sure as hell will all right. 94 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: Without further adod, let's get to our guest, Mike Sando 95 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 2: of The Athletic. You know, Jason likes to think he 96 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 2: knows everything when it comes to sports. I know what 97 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: sports fans want, but for everything he doesn't. He knows 98 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: a guy who does. 99 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: Let's just say I know a guy who knows the 100 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: guy who knows another guy. 101 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: All right, let's welcome into straight fire Mike Sando of 102 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: the Athletic. Obviously, he is the man of the hour 103 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 2: this week in football circles because of his quarterback tiers list. 104 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 2: We broke it down on yesterday's podcast. He's been doing 105 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: the media rounds, getting a billion questions. Mike, how you 106 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: holding up in this media onslaught. Everybody's got to ask you. 107 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: Why is why quarterback rated so low? How you handling 108 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: it all? 109 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: It's you know, really well. I love this week and 110 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: it feels like it's even more than in the past 111 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: this week. I don't know if it's a different buzz 112 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: or or what, but I have been bouncing around. In fact, 113 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: I was doing earlier today. I was doing something in 114 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: Pittsburgh and we went over like the start of my 115 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: next one, so I could see Cleveland was actually calling in. 116 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: We got They don't even know this, but like they're 117 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: in the same division that Cleveland was calling in. I said, hey, 118 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: I gotta got I got another one coming in. So 119 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: that's unusual, you know, to have so many that they 120 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: were overlapping each other. But it's a fun thing. 121 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: Listen, We're not gonna break down every guy, obviously, but 122 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 2: I do have some questions about rising falling. I love, 123 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: by the way, the presentation now, there's like a drop 124 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,239 Speaker 2: down tab on the Athletic you can compare, for instance, 125 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: Jalen Hurts last year heading into last season, medium grade, 126 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: nothing special, really got embarrassed in that playoff game against Tampa. 127 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: And then Jalen Hurts adds aj Brown on the outside, 128 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: Shane Stikeen dials up some greatness and now Jalen Hurts 129 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: is like a superstar in the NFL. But how do 130 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: you handle when league executives and these people you interview 131 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: are saying, listen, it's just one season. We need to 132 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: pump the brakes. 133 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: It's the number one difference I think between in the 134 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: league and out of the league, right I think on 135 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: the out of the league, we go week to week. Man, 136 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: we're living in the moment a little bit, and some 137 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: people are like, hey, schoon so has had a good September, 138 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: where would he be in the tears? You know? And 139 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: that's not really how it is in the league. So 140 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a delay on this thing. Like, 141 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: for example, Russell Wilson plummeted from last year, but he 142 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: didn't go like all the way to garbage, you know. 143 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: I mean he dropped a tier and that's probably appropriate. 144 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: Or Jalen Hurts is in the same shoes as like 145 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson was when Lamar won MVP. He went right 146 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: to the top of Tier two and people are like, well, 147 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: how you're the MVP, how can you not be Tier one? 148 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: And it's like, well, people want to see it again 149 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: and they have some questions about his passing and just 150 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: whether the passing could come around enough for them to 151 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: advance in the playoffs. Well, we're two three years later, 152 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: Lamar still solidly in Tier two, but he hasn't really 153 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: made that jump into Tier one, and no one's asking 154 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: me right now, Hey, how come he's not up with Burrow? Right? 155 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: So sometimes that little bit of a delay or just 156 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: an extra year is warranted moving him up or down. Yeah. 157 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: I also want to ask about Trevor Lawrence, who, you know, 158 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: everybody's high on coming out of Clemson. They loved him. 159 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: I loved him, but there seems to be like a 160 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: wide gap on what he is. A lot of people 161 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: obviously like him, but I did look at Focus only 162 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: had him as the fifteenth graded quarterback last year. DVA 163 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: loves him a lot more, they had him sixth. How 164 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: did you handle him with the Jags, because if memory serves, 165 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: they were three and seven to start last season and 166 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: nobody was talking about Trevor Lawrence being a Tier two 167 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: Tier one quarterback, and all of a sudden, they get 168 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: hot down the stretch. They win a playoff game, coming 169 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: back from a massive deficit. And now it's like Trevor 170 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: Lawrence season. I don't know, I like Lawrence, but you know, 171 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: he seems a little bit high. 172 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: Interesting. So Trevor Lawrence moved into the middle of the 173 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: second tier. He's just beneath Lamar Jackson, just ahead of 174 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: Dak Prescott, who's obviously a lot more proven. I think 175 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: people are buying the upside now. They see the situation 176 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: in Jacksonville as having stabilized. They like Jet Doug Peterson generally, 177 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: there's good weaponry around him. There's actually a good team. 178 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: I think the defense is good. So I think people 179 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: are seeing where this is headed and they're not putting 180 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: him in Tier one. Where did he get three Tier 181 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: one votes? So three people out of fifty said, you 182 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: know what, I'm all in Trevor Lawrence. Here we go. 183 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: But I think for the most part, people really bought 184 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: into the second half of last year. Now that said, 185 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: before that, even when even though everyone knew urban Meyer 186 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: to blame all of that, I think he was sort 187 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: of disappointing and people expected more from him and really 188 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: have expected better accuracy from him. Now that seemed to 189 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: come around the second half of last year, But that 190 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: was one thing where like people were questioning whether he 191 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: could get to Tier one more a year ago than now. 192 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: I'm a Jets fan, I was born in New York. 193 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: I root for them. That's the one team I like 194 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: root for. And I was not keen on bringing Aaron 195 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: Rodgers on board. Old guy ornery battling the front office 196 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: in Green Bay. And let's be real, after the two MVPs, Mike, 197 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: he fell precipitously. He didn't fall like Russell Wilson, but 198 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: he felt and it doesn't feel like he was treated 199 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: the same way Russ was in his fall. Now, I 200 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: don't know how much of that is a projection onto 201 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: the Jets where he's reunited with Hackett, whatever we think 202 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 2: of Hackett, and they have Garrett Wilson and better weapons 203 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: perceived on the outside than the Packers did. Last year. 204 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: Was Rogers a difficult one for you? 205 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: So in the past, like the voters stood by Rogers 206 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: no matter what. Remember the end of McCarthy. It didn't 207 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: look good. There was kind of whispers in media not whispers. 208 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: People were saying, hey, this guy has declined. You know 209 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: you could all those stats were talking about EPA, DVOA, 210 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: all that stuff was being used to say that Rogers 211 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: didn't have it at that time, though everyone kept him 212 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: in Tier one. In fact, before this year, four hundred 213 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: and one of four hundred and eight votes for Rogers 214 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: over the last decade were in Tier one. Okay, he 215 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: had seven Tier one vote Tier two votes. Ever in 216 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: nine years, this year he has twenty. So there are 217 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: some people hopping off of that train. And I think 218 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: some of it is a combination of the age. He's 219 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: going to be forty this year, so people sort of 220 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: kind of start to see you decline at a certain age. 221 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: I think that happened to Brady. Remember twenty nineteen, Brady 222 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: doesn't look right like he's done with the Patriots. Weaponry 223 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: wasn't great, the offense just kind of stalled, and people said, 224 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: you know what this is it. He's old. This is 225 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: where he declines. And he was able to get in 226 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: a good situation, probably be motivated, and stay healthy, and 227 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: he played pretty much Tier one ball. I think he 228 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: led the league in a lot of categories that first 229 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: year in Tampa. So I think Rogers has that in 230 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: him with a little bit of a concern over the 231 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: injuries and durability. I think that's where seventeen game season, 232 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: as noted in the piece, fourteen games on turf this year, 233 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: only for last year. That's a little bit interesting for 234 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: someone who's had some lower leg injuries, was injured last year. 235 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: Tough division, might get knocked around a little bit. New 236 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: offensive line, everyone learning the protections, right, It's not the 237 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: same guys that he's had, which is a huge priority 238 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: for him. That's why they had all those guys like Lazard. 239 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 2: You know, that's a great nugget. Fourteen games on turf. 240 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: I had not considered that. This is why you know, 241 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: this is why you got the goods, all right. I 242 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: do want to go to Josh Allen and the Bill 243 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: season last year was weird because they were steamrolling everybody, 244 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 2: leading in point differential, I think, and then that Bengals 245 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: game happens and it kind of throws everything off down 246 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: the stretch. They end up not getting home field advantage, 247 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: they have to face the Bengals, they get smashed, and 248 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: now it's like whoa Buffalo's going to fall back? And 249 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 2: you know everybody loves Josh Allen. I'm gonna give you 250 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 2: two stats, Mike that I'm sure you're aware of. Pro 251 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: Football Focus had Alan with the first well leading the 252 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: NFL in turnover worthy plays last year, and he also 253 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 2: led the NFL in red zone interceptions. Yet he's solidly 254 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 2: in Tier one. I get that he had a lot 255 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: of touchdown passes looked great last year. I just based 256 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: on the way they've finished the season, should we be cautious? 257 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 2: Maybe that's over a too strong a word. How should 258 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: we feel about Alan heading into the season? 259 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: He actually he actually moved up in his average vote 260 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: this year. That surprised me a little bit. Now Burrow 261 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: passed them, like Burrow moved up more. But I kind 262 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: of thought there might be a little bit more questioning 263 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: of Josh Allen then there ended up being this year. 264 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: But I think you have to kind of step back 265 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: and say, wait a minute, this is a team that 266 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: was kind of top five on both sides of the 267 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: ball for the most part. Yes, he did put the 268 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: ball in Harm's way, but I think like that's kind 269 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: of part of him. He's kind of a superman. You know. 270 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: The concerns I would have for him. Are that much 271 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: usage and running, you know, is going to catch up 272 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: to your body. I don't care if you're as big 273 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: as Cam Newton and Josh Allen, it just does eventually. 274 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: I mean Cam hit a cliff, you know, after about 275 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: ten years. Cam was not the same guy Josh Allen's 276 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: way earlier in that throws the ball better, but he 277 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: runs it a lot and takes a lot of hits 278 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: and kind of goes down swinging a lot. Right, that's 279 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: what we're talking about with some of those turnover worthy plays. 280 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: He doesn't really live to see another day enough, and 281 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: I think that's an area of growth for him that 282 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: could be had. They've talked about it a little bit 283 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: this offseason, but he's got to kind of actually do it. 284 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: Based on voting, Mike, was there any quarterback that you 285 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 2: felt when you saw the results, you were like, I 286 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 2: just disagree totally. I don't see it that way. I've 287 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: got this guy higher or lower who was the quarterback 288 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: that stuck out to you the most? 289 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: So I'm so kind of on the inside myself and 290 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: talking to all these guys, I kind of agree with 291 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: the way that it came down. Although right, here's my 292 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: two kind of like right on the Tier two three borderline, 293 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: like Cousins improved, like Cousins is always kind of right 294 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: around there, but he moved up from Tier three into 295 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: Tier two, And I'm like, was there something we didn't 296 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: know about Kirk Cousins. Are people overvaluing the fact that 297 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: they won all those close games? And then you know, 298 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: when you look at it, he did have eight fourth 299 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: quarter game winning drives and that is tied for the 300 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: most in a season since nineteen sixty according to Pro 301 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: Football Reference, So he does get some credit for that. 302 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: I thought also, people were nicer to Kyler Murray than 303 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: I was respecting. I mean, Kyler Murray got one Tier 304 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: one vote. Can you believe that? 305 00:14:58,920 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. 306 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I used to quote from the guy who 307 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: did it. I mean, the guy was like, look, they 308 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: have a lot of problems around there that aren't him. 309 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: I mean, when they were a playoff team recently, it 310 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: wasn't because of any reason except for him. He showed 311 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: he can make the plays and carry him. Now he's 312 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: got to show the leadership and all of that stuff. 313 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: You might do him there. But I thought there'd be 314 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more negativity around him and people kind 315 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: of made maybe excuses depending on your point of view, 316 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: but at least sort of had reasons for why it 317 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: wasn't all his fault. 318 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 2: It seems like Cliff Kingsbury's being the scapegoat there. I 319 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: don't even is he in the league? Is he in 320 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: college football? Where is Cliff Kingsbury these days? By Kyler 321 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: Murray getting a first place vote, the guy who demanded 322 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: that a Clasby removed from his contract, stumped his feet, 323 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: removed the cardinal stuff like your right leadership is the 324 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: word with him, I can't believe that he got one 325 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: quarterback Tier one vote. But Mike I should ask. The 326 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: NFL is notorious for struggling to draft quarterbacks. They have 327 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: missed so many times, so many whiff in the top ten, 328 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: top five, first round. I just wonder how when you're 329 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: talking to these guys, are some of them like, you 330 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: know what, I just did not see this. I did 331 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 2: not see this coming at all. I know we know 332 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: Mahomes is number one, but nobody who analyzes football can 333 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: tell me they saw anything close to this for like 334 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: a Patrick Mahomes after what five years? 335 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: Right? 336 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 2: So how much stocks should we put in the guy 337 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: who's voting Kyler Murray Tier one. 338 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Well, I think if you talk to fifty people, 339 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: you're going to get a couple outliers, right, You're going 340 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: to get someone who sees it a different way. Or 341 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: you know what they played against Kyler Murray and it 342 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: was a root and he gave him fits. You know, 343 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: he saw the best of them. Whatever, you're going to 344 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: get a little bit of that. You mailed it all together. 345 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty good. Now. I think there's a 346 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: reason I don't have rookies in here because I think 347 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: the projection of from college to pro is a complete 348 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: guessing game. I mean, there's people I know that I 349 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: respect who have great knowledge of football and quarterback play. 350 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: They can watch the film on Rosen in college and 351 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: think he's going to be good. 352 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: Okay, everybody did. 353 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's the sort of thing that happens. 354 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: That's why I take that out because I think we're 355 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: a lot better. We're a lot better at getting at 356 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: what matters of guys you've actually played. Now, there's some 357 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: guys in here haven't played much, and so they're a 358 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: little bit harder. I include some of those anyway, if 359 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: they're going to if they've at least played some, but 360 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: like last year, no one saw Geno Smith doing what 361 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: he did, and that includes the Seahawks. The Seahawks didn't 362 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: think he would. The Seahawks, I bet you six weeks 363 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: before the season probably thought Drew Lock was gonna be 364 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: their quarterback. Wow, you know, so Gino Smith. Good for him. 365 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: There are surprises. There are guys who play better than 366 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: they've ever played before, and you know, you tip your 367 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: hat to them and say, great job. Yeah, you know, 368 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: and those are few and far between. Really, you know, 369 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: I think most of the evaluations are pretty good. 370 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 2: If you're trying to identify the next Geno Smith who 371 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: can make the leap? Is there or anything we can 372 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: take away because Seattle was weird last year, right they 373 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: dumped Russell Wilson for Gino Smith. They all of a 374 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: sudden are throwing a lot more on early downs. They've 375 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: got a young team, and then Gino Smith, who's basically 376 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: been you know, kicked around the league for almost a decade, 377 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: was a disaster with my Jets. Looks like a competent 378 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: I don't know about franchise quarterback, but look like a 379 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 2: competent guy who could be that guy this year. Is 380 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: there anyone that jumps out to you? 381 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: I don't think so when you go through and just 382 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: there's not really anyone like him. I don't think who's 383 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: on this that started that's going to be the starter 384 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: for a team who hadn't been a starter for a 385 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: long time. But as a veteran, I mean, who would 386 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: you peck out? I mean, just kind of looking through 387 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: the list of guys, I think he's a little bit 388 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: of a one off. Now. I do think there's guys 389 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: that can go either way, you know. I think, like, like, 390 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: I feel like Lamar Jackson could climb into Tier one 391 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: if this passing offense suits him and he really takes 392 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: a step there, or they could come back to him 393 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: if that's not really for him. Any struggles and throws, 394 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: you know, leads the league in interceptions or something and 395 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: misses the final five games, he could slip. So I 396 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: think there's volatility for him. I think Tua is somebody 397 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: who people have a hard time figuring out because, uh, 398 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, the supporting casts around him have been either 399 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: terrible or great, you know, and the play calling has 400 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: either been terrible or great, and so we know he 401 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: throws accurately, but Kenny even stay on the field. If 402 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: he does, I mean, he could have a he could 403 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: have a great season. But people don't want to anoint 404 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: somebody who sort of has to have it set up 405 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: a certain way. You know, it's got to be on 406 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: a certain timing to make it work, and the minute 407 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: it's not, it doesn't look good. So that's what he 408 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: probably has to overcome. 409 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, field is not hugely oh Justin Fields. Yeah yeah, Yeah, 410 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: you're right. 411 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: So that's somebody who could really rock it up. But 412 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: I mean he's a first round pick recently, so there's 413 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: hope look for that. It's not like he's Geno Smith. 414 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: While we're on Justin Fields. Some people, like my partner 415 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: on TV, Colin Coward, he really believes in quarterback record. 416 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 2: He can't seem to get over five and twenty for 417 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: Justin Fields. You study quarterbacks, you talk to people aroun 418 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: the league. You've got a weekly NFL column quarterback, I say, 419 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 2: quarterback record, and your response is. 420 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: You've really got to know how to contextualize it. I'll 421 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: give you an example. Okay, if you look. I was 422 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: doing this for a conversation on Jimmy Garoppolo. Okay, Jimmy 423 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: Garoppolo is going from the forty nine Ers, who had 424 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: a great defense while he was there, to the Raiders 425 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: who've had a bad defense. Okay, so over the last 426 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: five years, the forty nine Ers are six statistically on 427 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: defense and special teams. The Raiders are thirty second. Right, 428 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: Jimmy's got a great record, right, amazing record. He wins 429 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: all the games. But guess what. All the teams in 430 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: the top eight statistically defense and special teams have a 431 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: winning record, all of them. The bottom eight, the only 432 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: ones that have winning records are the guys who have 433 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: Tier one quarterbacks. It's Mahomes, It's Rogers, and it's River 434 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: slash Herbert. So if you're gonna be bad, I would 435 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: say for a guy like for a guy like Mahomes 436 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: and Rogers, the record does say something because they have 437 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: throughout their career been able to overcome whether or not 438 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: they have a bad defense, So their record means something 439 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: to me. Jimmy's record is more of grain of salt 440 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: to me. He's a Tier three, upper Tier three, maybe 441 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: on his good day's tier two quarterback who has a 442 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: Tier one record because of factors that are beyond his 443 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: control and watch when he goes to the Raiders. He's 444 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: not gonna win seventy percent of his games guaranteed. 445 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: Reminds me of Zach Wilson last year, who I think 446 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 2: he missed the first couple of games, and then he 447 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: goes on a five and oh tear right five and 448 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 2: oh record and the Jets are seven and three. But 449 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 2: nobody should look at Zach Wilson in those games, is 450 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: that he's the reason they won any of them, other 451 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 2: than the Pittsburgh game when he was good down the stretch, 452 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 2: but they needed some luck there. Anyway, I guess the 453 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: guy I would look at go back to Gino's men 454 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: for a sec. Again, it's not a direct comparison, but 455 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: Derek Carr, I think is like seventeen games under five 456 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 2: hundred for his career. He's over one in the playoffs. 457 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: He's been around the league for what nine ten years. Yeah, 458 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: I'm extremely bullish on the Saints this year, not because 459 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: of Carr or the coach really, but mostly because of 460 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: that schedule. And there's a chance that Carr not having 461 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: to play Mahomes twice Herbert twice. You know, there's a 462 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 2: chance in this week NFC South he Pops as a 463 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 2: guy who you know, surges worse he third tier, maybe 464 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 2: he surges to top of the second tier. Is that possible? 465 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: Well, the funny thing about it is like, so when 466 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: he was with the Raiders, they were only kind of 467 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: middle of the pack on defense special teams one year 468 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: and they went twelve and four. That was the one 469 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: twelve and four year. The rest they were horrible. So 470 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: when you look at the Saints and you really look 471 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: at like in recent years they've kind of been a 472 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: top five defensive team, right, And so when you look 473 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: at Sean Payton there towards the end, Sean Payton's five 474 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: and two with Jamis, He's five and one with Bridgewater, 475 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: He's seven and two with Taysom Hill. Not because those 476 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: guys were money, it's because they were great in other 477 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: areas around him. So Derek Carr is certainly better than 478 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: those three guys, Right, those three guys had to combine 479 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: seventeen and five record when Sean Payton was there, and 480 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: none of them is a starting quarterback in the league, right, 481 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: So I think there's real promise for Derek Carr to 482 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: go in there and if they are top five, top 483 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: ten on defense, he can win games. And when you 484 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: go through the NFC, you get to the Saints real 485 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: quick when you start looking at who could go deep 486 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: because it's the NFC, I mean, they could win that division. 487 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: So yeah, I got to ask how much of that 488 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: quarterback record stuff with the Saints is should we attribute 489 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 2: to Peyton as opposed to special teams of defense? Because 490 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 2: that makes me wonder is the ero going to be 491 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 2: pointing back up for Russell Wilson although they just lost 492 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 2: Tim Patrick again he didn't play last year to an achilles, 493 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 2: and I don't know. They have Sutland and Judy Sutton 494 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: and Judy and Hamler seemed to be healthy. But I 495 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 2: don't know how much we expect from Sean Payton and 496 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: Russell Wilson. 497 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: Give I do give Sean Payton some of the credit 498 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: for that that he was able to win with those guys. 499 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: I remember writing about it at the time, going wait 500 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: a minute, Drew Brees is gone, this offense is gone, 501 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: and they continue to win and you have to have 502 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: the deep players on defense to do that. And Denver 503 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: probably has enough players on defense to be pretty good, 504 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: so they may be able to do that. I think 505 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: the Russell Wilson. Part of the equation though, is a 506 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: little dice here. He going into the twenty twenty season 507 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: was unanimous tier one. Then the next year he had 508 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: forty out of fifty votes in Tier one, then he 509 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: had fifteen out of fifty in Tier one, then he 510 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 1: had zero this year. So wow, he's declined for three 511 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: years in a row. And I think the one thing 512 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: we've seen about Sean Payton is it's not going to 513 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: be his fault for a while they're in dunder. That's 514 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: a good point, and Russell Wilson is in a dicey situation. Now. 515 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: He has a good opportunity. He could bounce back and 516 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: he could play well for them, But I think his 517 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: days as a superstar athletically are probably over. 518 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: Wow. 519 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: So you know, to me, I just think he's lost 520 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: the athletic quickness you know that he had when he 521 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: was really special, and so like, it's not going to 522 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: shock me if they switch quarterbacks. 523 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: During the year to Jared'stidham. 524 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: Sure that wouldn't shock me. Wow. 525 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: Now I'm trying to think, is there been a quarterback 526 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 2: who has lost the athletic ability in his mid thirties 527 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: and then regained it we know Russ is a tireless worker. 528 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: We've seen all the silly airplane videos. Is there any 529 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 2: precedents of this? 530 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: I don't know about losing the athleticism part. I mean, 531 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: I think there's been some athletic quarterbacks who have done 532 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: well late in their careers, like a rich Gannon, you know, 533 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: I think he was somebody who played till an older age. Probably, 534 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: I think he had a nick injury late in his career. 535 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: Steve Young was you know, didn't hit immediately and was 536 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: a good ath a quarterback later. But I don't know. 537 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: I think that Russell Wilson was pretty dependent on the 538 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: special ability to escape to really make the big play 539 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: on the field. You thought you had him so many times, 540 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: like this guy was dead to rights and then it's 541 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: a forty yard game. He would turn a ten yard 542 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: loss into a forty yard game, like routinely. You do 543 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: that two times in a game, you win the game, 544 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: like it changes everything. And so I think he may 545 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 1: be able to do that some, But I don't think 546 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: that's necessarily how Sean Payton's going to want to play 547 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: offense either. So I think it remains to be seen 548 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: how that fit is. 549 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 2: We'll get you out of here on this mic. Any 550 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 2: thoughts on Jets Browns this week? Jets getting all the love, 551 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 2: hard knocks the first game they opened with the Bills. 552 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 2: Brutal early schedule, understandable with Aaron Rodgers, but I'm just curious. 553 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: I know that's the first six games are really brutal, 554 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 2: and it's early August. I'm not trying to pin you down, 555 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: but your expectation for the Jets would be first with 556 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 2: the preseason game and then going forward in to the season. 557 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: Your thoughts, Yeah, no expectations for a preseason game. I mean, 558 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: I don't even pay I don't know who won the 559 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: preseason last year. I think there's zero value in it. 560 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 1: Just try not to get anybody hurts the season. I 561 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: expect him to be a playoff team. I think what 562 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: Rogers doesn't guarantee anything, but he raises the ceiling for them. 563 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: The ceiling is way higher than it'spin for a long time. 564 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways you cannot reach the ceiling. 565 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: Rogers gets hurt again. It just doesn't mesh well. Hey, 566 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: maybe he is not a Tier one quarterback. All those 567 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: things could happen, but he gives them the possibility I 568 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: think when your team has the possibility and knows that 569 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: you have a better chance to get the best out 570 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,479 Speaker 1: of your guys. There's an energy that somebody like that 571 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: brings when everybody knows, hey, we got a shot, we 572 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: got a shot here. So I'm kind of glassed that full. 573 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: I think they're going to have a winning record. I 574 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: know it's tough and they FC no idea what'll happen 575 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: in the playoffs. I think you could lose to anyone 576 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: and they see in the playoffs and it's not the 577 00:27:58,320 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: end of the world. But I think they're going to 578 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: be in the mix at the end. 579 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: Last two years, we've had surprise Super Bowl teams. The Eagles. 580 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 2: Not many had them, I mean people had them being good, 581 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 2: but super Bowl, I think it was a bit of 582 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: a stretch. And then two years ago Bengals, I'm almost 583 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 2: certain nobody had them. Could you give us a middle tier, 584 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: a middle class team that you think could make that 585 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: leap to Super Bowl? 586 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: Yeah? So I think in the NFC, you know, Dallas 587 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: is kind of a team lurking in the Eagle shadows 588 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: that has good talent that they've been pretty good on 589 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: defense the last couple of years. They ran into the 590 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: forty nine ers last year in the playoffs. I don't 591 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: think there's any shame in losing to the forty nine ers. 592 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: I think they're a really good team. But there's a 593 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: thinness in the NFC that could allow we were talking 594 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: about the Saints. You know, there's some teams in there 595 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: that could break through because of that. I think it's 596 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: much easier to make the Super Bowl from the NFC 597 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: than it is to win it. I think getting to 598 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: the super Bowl is the problem in the AFC. A 599 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: team that has been really on the outs but will 600 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: be heard from this year could be Jacksonville. Oh. I 601 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: think they've done a good job putting that roster together, 602 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: and I think they're going to have a good defense, 603 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: pretty good defense, and what we saw on offense, that's 604 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: a team that hasn't done anything, has had a terrible record, 605 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: that got a taste last year, and maybe could be 606 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: a little dangerous. 607 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: Wow. So Jacksonville, I guess if they steal the number 608 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: one seed in the division, maybe they make the leap 609 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 2: and get the number one seed. I mean, it's gonna 610 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: be tough, Kansas, You're right. The AFC is just brutal 611 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: that's why we're leaning unders in the AFC with Allen 612 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 2: and Burrow and Mahomes, and it's just wild. 613 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think in the end, the Chiefs 614 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: are probably going to be there. Last shoot. They won 615 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: it last year and I didn't even think it was 616 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: going to be their year as they transitioned from Tyreek Hills, 617 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: So you got to give them the big edge. 618 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Mike Sando the Athletic get a subscription 619 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: read all their fun stuff. The Tears quarterback thing is awesome. 620 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: Congrats Mike on the success and we'll talk to you soon. 621 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, appreciate it.