Speaker 1: This is Patriots Playbook. The legend. Sometimes you need to
Speaker 1: be hit up the side of the head with an
Speaker 1: idiot stick to realize it. Right, you know, coming into
Speaker 1: the stadium today, what did they do to the parking?
Speaker 1: What is the deal?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's always something going on here.
Speaker 1: They finally find a job they could give them. Alik
Speaker 1: comming home, you make a very good point. Shocking. Did
Speaker 1: I just say that about him? You coulda bet me
Speaker 1: any amount of money that we would not get the
Speaker 1: word for tada into the show today.
Speaker 4: Now here's your host of Patriots Playbook, John Rook.
Speaker 1: What are the words can we try to get into
Speaker 1: the show today? Sucky? Sucky? Sucky? Would that be a
Speaker 1: good one today? I don't know. I'm just just kind
Speaker 1: of wondering, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Wow, I think it's funny how a lot of
Speaker 3: people call it Sunshine dot com. You know that. And
Speaker 3: for the first forty minutes of PU we discussed a
Speaker 3: real cash spending and how where the Patriots rank. And
Speaker 3: now that's how we start this show. So shove that
Speaker 3: in your Sunshine dot com by.
Speaker 1: Dot com pipe right exactly. I you know, I wanted
Speaker 1: to come in at least kind of start off today
Speaker 1: and and have something to rant and rave about. But
Speaker 1: I'm kind of at the point where I'm kind of like,
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's not it's not purposeful. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just not it's not solving anything. I'm I'm you know,
Speaker 1: we we've been so blessed. I've said this so many times.
Speaker 1: We've been so blessed to have covered this team as
Speaker 1: we have in this venue, in this particular program. And
Speaker 1: you know this, you know dot Com Radio era that
Speaker 1: we've had over twenty two years now, twenty three years now,
Speaker 1: to have had a championship caliber, championship level football team.
Speaker 1: And then this year we're experiencing what Patriots fans, for
Speaker 1: lack of you know, for better, for worse, what Patriots
Speaker 1: fans experienced back in the nineteen eighties, some of the
Speaker 1: nineteen a little bit in the seven certainly in the sixties,
Speaker 1: you know, when they were even still the Boston Patriots.
Speaker 1: You know, I've told the story several times that the
Speaker 1: last really just what is it worth? Season? You know,
Speaker 1: why are we doing this season? That I remember going
Speaker 1: through was the year that I did Rod Rust's TV show,
Speaker 1: and you know, we only did three shows during the year,
Speaker 1: because there's just no way we were filling in the
Speaker 1: kind of a content that you would need to do
Speaker 1: a weekly show for a team that in a program
Speaker 1: that was one in fifteen three. Yeah, and so I'm
Speaker 1: just like, you know, I want to try to put
Speaker 1: things in a little bit of perspective. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, there is a little part of me that says, well,
Speaker 1: so what are we going to do about this? And
Speaker 1: we're caught in another world that I'm just not sure
Speaker 1: we're going to be able to extract ourselves from, you know,
Speaker 1: at least for the foreseeable future. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: what does it mean in the big picture? We all
Speaker 1: want to know what it means in the big picture?
Speaker 1: How much? How much more are we going on here?
Speaker 1: You know that kind of thing. Like Bill is famous
Speaker 1: to say, I I don't know. I can't answer that question.
Speaker 1: So there is another part of me that decided, today
Speaker 1: maybe we just put blinders on and go week to week,
Speaker 1: just like you know they allegedly do on game plans.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is Washington week, and what's the over
Speaker 1: under on me slipping and calling them the Redskins today?
Speaker 1: I said, that's I'm not going to count that one.
Speaker 1: That doesn't count. I think I set my own number
Speaker 1: this morning at one and a Hay, that's a would
Speaker 1: you go over or under?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go under. I believe in you, you believe
Speaker 3: in I think I could go.
Speaker 1: I'd go over.
Speaker 3: I think the Commanders is easier for a lot of
Speaker 3: people than the Los Angeles Chargers. For some reason, this
Speaker 3: San Diego Chargers.
Speaker 1: I see, but see I go even worse than that
Speaker 1: when I see LA C I call them the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Clippers.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1: Because that's what they were when I was in the NBA,
Speaker 1: they were LA Clippers.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1: So I'm you know, I don't know. I'm kind of
Speaker 1: just sort of bamboozled.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1: Non plussed.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that means, but I'm sure. I'm
Speaker 3: sure it's true.
Speaker 1: You google it. I just I think it means that
Speaker 1: you're just confused more than anything else, not sure which
Speaker 1: way to go. Are you at all surprised? I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not on the trade deadline. I'm not surprised that
Speaker 1: this team did nothing, because there's a part of me
Speaker 1: this is well, sure, you know, if you've got tradable commodities,
Speaker 1: why don't you get rid of him? But as Bill
Speaker 1: warned us, it takes two to make a trade. And
Speaker 1: then on top of that, you're two and six. You're
Speaker 1: literally the worst team in the AFC. Right now, Who
Speaker 1: the hell do you have that somebody else wants?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought, look, you know, obviously those players that
Speaker 3: everybody keeps talking about from the twenty twenty draft class
Speaker 3: J dugger on when you uh, those guys, I think
Speaker 3: probably had a little bit of interest, especially Oocha. But
Speaker 3: I also wondered if some teams would have been interested
Speaker 3: in a hunter Henry Zeke Elliott.
Speaker 1: It was my understanding that Elliott did have several tire kickers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why. I guess there just wasn't a
Speaker 1: compensation offered.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we're talking about pick swaps late, like
Speaker 3: you're not giving up.
Speaker 1: Any you're not really giving up anything.
Speaker 3: Anybody could have had him for like six months, you know,
Speaker 3: and whatever it was, and and know, you know, the
Speaker 3: Patriots signed him in the middle of August.
Speaker 1: Was he worth an extra six or seventh thrown pick,
Speaker 1: because that's probably what they were getting.
Speaker 3: I think in Elliott's case, if they did get those
Speaker 3: I think there's been some conflicting reports on whether or
Speaker 3: not they did get calls on Zeke or not. But
Speaker 3: if they did, if they had had some younger backs
Speaker 3: that they wanted to try to integrate into the offense
Speaker 3: or maybe get a look at, like Kevin Harris or
Speaker 3: Pierre Strong was still here or something like that, then
Speaker 3: maybe you make that trade. But right now the only
Speaker 3: backs that you play are Remandre and Zeke, Like that's all,
Speaker 3: that's all you got. So I did to give one
Speaker 3: of those guys up have been tough, but I'm not surprised.
Speaker 3: I think the one thing and I that I agree
Speaker 3: with that seems to be like the the big hysteria
Speaker 3: or the big take on the deadline and is you
Speaker 3: do have to pick a lane. Either you're you're you're
Speaker 3: hitting the red button and you're starting all over yeah,
Speaker 3: or you're trying you think that this is worth trying
Speaker 3: to build with. And the one thing, and I'm not
Speaker 3: this isn't trying to come at it as like rose
Speaker 3: colored glasses or or anything like that, is I'm not
Speaker 3: waving pom poms, but I don't necessarily think they're as
Speaker 3: bad as as two and six. They're not a good team. Like,
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, but they've played one of the
Speaker 3: hardest schedules in the NFL. They did, and they played
Speaker 3: a lot of teams that are established Super Bowl contenders
Speaker 3: that they got whooped by. Like, there's no there's no
Speaker 3: doubt about it.
Speaker 1: Going short because we've knew going in they weren't going
Speaker 1: to be at that level.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think a lot of us knew that
Speaker 3: the opening, this opening stretch, this first half of the
Speaker 3: season was gonna be difficult. Now coming up in the
Speaker 3: second and I get that. No, there's no pencilvan wins
Speaker 3: anymore with this team, Like I'm not telling you that
Speaker 3: they're penciling in wins by any means. But now you
Speaker 3: get the Washington's, the Indies, the Giants who are not
Speaker 3: very good right now, Denver.
Speaker 1: Pitching games more on your level.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got the team. The softer part I hate
Speaker 3: that term, but the softer part of your schedule is
Speaker 3: now into the really other than like Kansas City Buffalo,
Speaker 3: and maybe if the Jets, you know, continue to play
Speaker 3: decently well or by that point he might be back
Speaker 3: Garret Rodgers might be playing in that that we gave
Speaker 3: kighteen game against the Patriots, so regardless, the point being
Speaker 3: is that did I think they would be two and
Speaker 3: six at this point. No, but I didn't really feel
Speaker 3: like they would be that much better. Like maybe they
Speaker 3: were four and four and or you know, three and five,
Speaker 3: but I really didn't think that they would be that
Speaker 3: much better.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing about four and four. You bring up
Speaker 1: four and four, let's just say that they are four
Speaker 1: and four and those two wins. Maybe they managed to
Speaker 1: squeeze one out in an upset over the Eagles, and
Speaker 1: maybe they beat the Dolphins a week two, and this
Speaker 1: team is four and four right now. Yeah, you'd still
Speaker 1: be screaming. You'd still hear screaming from fans, you'd still
Speaker 1: be hearing screaming and criticism from the media because it's
Speaker 1: kind of like, well, they can beat Philadelphia, they can
Speaker 1: beat Miami, and they still lose like that to New Orleans,
Speaker 1: or they're just four and four. Shouldn't they be five
Speaker 1: and three or six and two. I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like there'd still be complaints to be had here, and
Speaker 1: I think we've become conditioned to naturally complain when this
Speaker 1: team falls short of Sometimes over inflated expectations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that there were
Speaker 3: a couple of games based off of how they unfolded.
Speaker 3: I can see where you got to like Philly in Miami.
Speaker 3: But in my head going into the season, I thought
Speaker 3: that they would have a good chance to beat the Raiders,
Speaker 3: which I guess ultimately they kind of did. It was
Speaker 3: a one possession game. And then I thought that they
Speaker 3: would beat New Orleans here at home.
Speaker 1: I also thought they would be right.
Speaker 3: So so those were the two games that swung and
Speaker 3: and then one of them being a thirty four to
Speaker 3: nothing shell acking here really made it. It's sweet. Yes,
Speaker 3: So if you look at the other games they've played
Speaker 3: this season, and again this is not like to try
Speaker 3: to act like, oh, actually they're really good and they're
Speaker 3: going to be a good team. But all the other
Speaker 3: games have been really one score games, right like they
Speaker 3: you know all the other it's just those two blowouts
Speaker 3: that that you look at.
Speaker 1: It sort of unevens the playing field.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, they lost twouns.
Speaker 1: They were so egregious. And then when you add on
Speaker 1: the injuries of late est, specially Kendrick Bourne being the
Speaker 1: latest one to go down this weekend. Then it's kind
Speaker 1: of like, Wow, where's the hope. Yeah, and you've still got,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, nine games, you know, nine games left
Speaker 1: to play.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the hope and and it's a good question.
Speaker 3: I think for me, if you're a Patriots fan, and look,
Speaker 3: we have a lot of great listeners that are gonna
Speaker 3: watch and follow and thank god listen to us, even
Speaker 3: if they're not good. If you're those people, I think,
Speaker 3: what you have to do. And this is sort of
Speaker 3: my theme of the whole week here. The next nine
Speaker 3: games is more about deciding who you want to keep
Speaker 3: on this roster and who you don't. So it's basically
Speaker 3: it's what I'm saying, it's an individual player basis. Now
Speaker 3: we're evaluating the individual players on the roster. So I
Speaker 3: wouldn't get too caught up in wins and losses, because
Speaker 3: at this point that that probably is is irrelevant. It's
Speaker 3: more about is Mac Jones your quarterback of the future
Speaker 3: in my opinion, you have he has nine games to
Speaker 3: make the case that they should continue to roll with
Speaker 3: him next season, and if he plays like he's been
Speaker 3: playing outside of the Buffalo game, but on the on
Speaker 3: the on the whole for the season, the other seven
Speaker 3: games of the year. If he plays like that and
Speaker 3: they are picking in the top ten in the draft,
Speaker 3: they should be looking at quarterbacks, you would think if
Speaker 3: they if he plays like he did against Buffalo for
Speaker 3: the better half of the second half of the season,
Speaker 3: then then maybe it's a different conversation. And so it
Speaker 3: starts with the quarterback, but it's not just the quarterback,
Speaker 3: like deciding on your pending free agents, like is Kyle
Speaker 3: Dugger going to be here? Is Big Mike going to
Speaker 3: be here? Is josh Ucca going to be here? Is
Speaker 3: Hunter Henry going to be here? Like all these guys
Speaker 3: that are coming up on the end of their contracts
Speaker 3: that you might have some interest in keeping already. Now
Speaker 3: is the time for these people and these players to
Speaker 3: start making a case for being on the twenty twenty
Speaker 3: four Patriots. So I think that that's if you're a
Speaker 3: fan of this team and you're looking at what is
Speaker 3: it that I'm supposed to cling on to, it's there.
Speaker 3: They're probably not going to turn it around, Like they're
Speaker 3: probably not going to win ten straight games and turn
Speaker 3: it around. I would just have to.
Speaker 1: Say I was just gonna say could you see in
Speaker 1: any scenario this team performing like said the Detroit Lions
Speaker 1: did a year ago.
Speaker 3: So I've been clinging to that the Detroit Lions. A
Speaker 3: good example. The one I always came back to was
Speaker 3: the twenty one Miami Dolphins who lost seven in a row.
Speaker 3: They are one and seven, They lost seven in a row,
Speaker 3: and they won eight of their last nine games, and
Speaker 3: they finished the year nine and eight, and they just
Speaker 3: missed the playoffs. They just missed the playoffs because Pittsburgh
Speaker 3: tied a game. Okay, so they the nine to seven
Speaker 3: and one Steelers went to the playoffs over the nine
Speaker 3: and eight Miami Dolphins. So it's been done, right, Like
Speaker 3: I'm not, it's been done.
Speaker 1: Is it statistically possible yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is it likely?
Speaker 3: No? But I would say that I for better or worse,
Speaker 3: because I know some fans are gonna hear this and say, well,
Speaker 3: they should be tanking and they should losing, and what
Speaker 3: good doesn't date what what good does it do to
Speaker 3: be seven and ten? And I don't necessarily disagree on
Speaker 3: for the most part.
Speaker 1: Those stupid NBA teams that tanked, you know, the Houston
Speaker 1: Rockets tanked for Ralph Sampson, and a chem Olajo on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's just that, just that brought sports to
Speaker 1: a completely different level. Because athletes don't tank. Yeah, they can't.
Speaker 1: It is against their very fiber of their very being
Speaker 1: to go out and perform and not compete at a
Speaker 1: high level. You cannot do it. You cannot tell me otherwise.
Speaker 1: The tanking part of it, the dropping, the losing purposely,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to say, that comes from decisions being
Speaker 1: made way above their heads and playing people out on
Speaker 1: the floor. I mean, I know in Houston's case, when
Speaker 1: I was in the NBA and the Rockets tanked, uh,
Speaker 1: to be able to you know, bring in a cheam,
Speaker 1: Ralph Sampson, that whole group, you know, back during that time,
Speaker 1: it was because they refuse to play anybody but you know,
Speaker 1: five year old Elvin Hayes. Yeah, I mean that was
Speaker 1: basically it. That's why they did what they did. So,
Speaker 1: you know, and that was a management decision. The guys
Speaker 1: are going out there and busting tail all the time,
Speaker 1: but it was a management decision to play these guys
Speaker 1: because we don't want to risk anybody else. And so
Speaker 1: if Bill Belichick or mister Kraft said, okay, play all
Speaker 1: these guys, or don't play any of these guys, or look,
Speaker 1: I can understand from one point of view them saying,
Speaker 1: as you already suggested, this is really all about who
Speaker 1: we want to keep for next year because we know
Speaker 1: there's going to be an increased cap space and we're
Speaker 1: going to have extra money. So there's a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to rebuild this thing and rebuild it quickly. Who on
Speaker 1: this team right now can be a part of that.
Speaker 1: That's part of the evaluating process. So let's play those guys.
Speaker 1: If you want to call that tanking, then it's tanking, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not really tanking.
Speaker 3: Right, And so I the Lions are a good example,
Speaker 3: and I think that Dolphins team is a good example. Now,
Speaker 3: the Dolphins team changed coaches, fired Brian Flores at the
Speaker 3: end of that year, and hired Mike McDaniel, and then
Speaker 3: they traded for Tyreek Hill and the rest is history.
Speaker 3: Right now, they're one of the best teams in the league.
Speaker 3: But the general premise is the Lions and the Dolphins
Speaker 3: stuck with it, right, and they didn't ruin Tua and
Speaker 3: they didn't ruin Jared Goff and then the Lions had
Speaker 3: another good draft class, they hit and they had another
Speaker 3: strong offseason. The Dolphins did what they did down in
Speaker 3: Miami with Tyreek Hill and Tron Armstead and all these pieces,
Speaker 3: Bradley Chubb making all these moves, and now those two
Speaker 3: teams might play in the Super Bowl in February. So
Speaker 3: there's other ways to go about it. And if I
Speaker 3: was the Patriots, and if I was a Patriots fan,
Speaker 3: the easiest path is forward. The easiest path is that
Speaker 3: for the rest of the season and that next nine games,
Speaker 3: mac Jones plays closer to what he did against Buffalo.
Speaker 3: He looks like a guy that maybe isn't gonna win
Speaker 3: you games still, but he can win games in this league.
Speaker 3: And instead of drafting Drake May in the first round,
Speaker 3: you're drafting Marvin Harrison junior, right, and you're adding to
Speaker 3: what you've already had, and I or you're drafting a
Speaker 3: left tackle or what you know, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's that's also a sound way
Speaker 3: to go about it. And I hate that everything is
Speaker 3: just tank tank tank, tank, tank, because that truly is
Speaker 3: you're starting all over with your entire football.
Speaker 1: You can't blow this up. You can't, you don't blow
Speaker 1: it up. I mean, what do you want to do?
Speaker 1: You want to go back and be an expansion team.
Speaker 1: You don't want to do that. Yeah, you've got some
Speaker 1: value here and you have some players here, and granted,
Speaker 1: some of your best players are injured and are not
Speaker 1: coming back this year, so we know all of this.
Speaker 1: So I think we already know kind of who you
Speaker 1: want back. But at the same time, you've got a
Speaker 1: fifty three man roster to fill out. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: definitely have some decision to be made on some of
Speaker 1: these guys who you could bring back or you decide
Speaker 1: to let them go and let them try, you know,
Speaker 1: their their own market in the in free agency, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of decisions to be made, and the
Speaker 1: only way you find it out is, yeah, to play
Speaker 1: them and to find that out. And I think you're right,
Speaker 1: that's where the small battles need to be learned to
Speaker 1: be won over the course of the next nine weeks.
Speaker 1: Is all right? So you know, hey, we saw some
Speaker 1: improvement this week from Mac or you know, hey, Ramandre
Speaker 1: was really running the ball way better, you know, the
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks than he ever. Whatever battle you
Speaker 1: want to pick, you can pick one and that's really
Speaker 1: kind of where I am on this particular issue, because
Speaker 1: you know, I heard I was listening to the local
Speaker 1: sports talk radio, which is, you know, obviously all I
Speaker 1: can listen to around here, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: sometimes it gets extraordinarily toxic, as I'm sure you're aware.
Speaker 1: And so they were completely going off the rails over
Speaker 1: the fact, and the callers were off the rails going
Speaker 1: after the fact that the Patriots didn't make a single
Speaker 1: move yeah, by the trade deadline at four o'clock yesterday,
Speaker 1: And my first impression was, well, why would you expect
Speaker 1: them to. Number one, somebody has been willing to deal
Speaker 1: with you. Number two, you gotta have to have you
Speaker 1: have to have somebody of value to another team, and
Speaker 1: then they would come to you and say would you
Speaker 1: take And you know, we heard that there was some
Speaker 1: tire kicking potentially on you know, Ezekiel Elliott, and certainly
Speaker 1: some tire kicking on josh Ucha. There might have been
Speaker 1: one or two others, but there wasn't a whole lot
Speaker 1: else out there. And it's all right, So we're giving
Speaker 1: them up for what basically a sock drawer full of doorknobs.
Speaker 1: What are we giving them up for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think josh u j is an interesting one
Speaker 3: just you know, because the Washington traded their two pass rushers, right,
Speaker 3: so Montes Sweat and Chase Young, who are better players
Speaker 3: than Josh Hugh j. They went for a second and
Speaker 3: a third round pick, which tells you probably at best
Speaker 3: was maybe worth a fourth at best.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at best, probably a fifth, right, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I
Speaker 1: would not do that. I would not trade Mac Jones.
Speaker 1: I think Mac Jones, know, And that's that's the one
Speaker 1: that I two calls back to back. You day, I'm listening.
Speaker 1: I won't name the station, but you can probably guess
Speaker 1: which one it was. I, you know, and I just
Speaker 1: have it to be, you know, going by, and people
Speaker 1: were livid. They were irate. I can't believe you kept Mac.
Speaker 1: I can't know. It's just most unbelievably, he sucks. He's dying,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm just like people who have no
Speaker 1: clue are the ones that call into these shows to
Speaker 1: vehemently voice their opinion. They don't realize what the reprecations are. Now,
Speaker 1: do I want to keep Mac here for the long term?
Speaker 1: And say he can be a twenty year player like
Speaker 1: Tom Brady. I doubt that that's gonna happen. But until
Speaker 1: you're ready to move on and find that next piece
Speaker 1: to the puzzle, you do need to, you know, I
Speaker 1: think keep him around because right now he's very cost effective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean not even that. To me, Trading mac
Speaker 3: Jones right now is is is trading low like it's
Speaker 3: giving away.
Speaker 1: Unless you could get I don't know what would you
Speaker 1: take for mac Jones? Would you? You know, first of all,
Speaker 1: I think I need a quarterback, uh, you know, somehow
Speaker 1: some well though, I guess you could go with Bailey's
Speaker 1: Appy and Malie cunning him. But that didn't seem like
Speaker 1: a hell of a lot right there. To be honest
Speaker 1: with you, what would you take for him? A third
Speaker 1: or fourth round pick? That's not good enough. He was
Speaker 1: a first round pick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you just you can't. I you got If
Speaker 3: you're gonna trade mac Jones, then if that's the plan,
Speaker 3: Like let's say the plan is they've decided he's not
Speaker 3: it and we're gonna move on.
Speaker 1: If you're the.
Speaker 3: Patriots, you you hope that he tears it up in
Speaker 3: the second half of the season. You hope he tears
Speaker 3: it up. It will be fake, you know, to you,
Speaker 3: it will be inflated stats or or against bad defenses
Speaker 3: or whatever the case may be. And you hope that
Speaker 3: that value just goes up and up and up and up.
Speaker 3: But after last year, in the first eight games this year,
Speaker 3: his value is zero, like you, so why would you?
Speaker 3: Why would you.
Speaker 1: Trade him now, don't you know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just never made any sense not to mention
Speaker 3: that they hate all the backup quarterbacks, Like I don't
Speaker 3: mean person, I just mean they don't think any of
Speaker 3: them can play. So what was you know, They're not
Speaker 3: gonna They're not starting Bailey's appy the rest of the year,
Speaker 3: Like that's just they cut the guy like they clearly
Speaker 3: think nothing of him as a player, So what what
Speaker 3: what were they gonna do? And I get people all, well,
Speaker 3: then they would lose every game and that would be good.
Speaker 3: But that's that's not good.
Speaker 1: No. All right, before we get back to Washington, because
Speaker 1: you obviously talked about the two big moves that they
Speaker 1: made at the traded deadline, I think we need to
Speaker 1: talk about the eight hundred pound gorilla in the room
Speaker 1: being Josh McDaniels. Yeah, at one o'clock in the morning
Speaker 1: Eastern time. You know, he was fired by Mark Davis.
Speaker 3: What that's that's a bad organization.
Speaker 1: You I was just gonna I'm just getting ready to
Speaker 1: say it seems to me that they've fired the wrong guy.
Speaker 1: But you can't fire the owner because he can't get
Speaker 1: his way out of a paper bag without doing something stupid.
Speaker 1: And this is stupid. Yeah, Now you don't have to
Speaker 1: like the way that things have gone. In fact, I
Speaker 1: don't know too many people who would be Raider fans
Speaker 1: it would really be enamored with things. But he's not
Speaker 1: even through his second here yet.
Speaker 3: Well, it was it was getting bad there. It was
Speaker 3: getting talks.
Speaker 1: I've heard the stories, just like you know you have
Speaker 1: and you can read on you know, Twitter, and you
Speaker 1: can read on you know, various and such.
Speaker 3: I thought, I thought Albert Breer had a really good
Speaker 3: summation of it on MMQB today if you got if
Speaker 3: you're interested. But it just it had gotten bad in Vegas.
Speaker 3: But more so than that, you know, I was I
Speaker 3: was joking with you earlier about these nine to fifteen
Speaker 3: am Bill Press conferences. So I was up this morning
Speaker 3: at six fifteen to get to come and listen to
Speaker 3: Bill talk about the trade deadline not and uh. And
Speaker 3: I look at my phone and I'm just the Raiders
Speaker 3: fired Josh McDaniels and Dave's Eagler And then I look
Speaker 3: at the tweet and it's a one am timestamp. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: And I'm just thinking to myself, I'm like, what a
Speaker 3: coward thing to do in the middle of the night
Speaker 3: to do that, and I need Look, it's not just
Speaker 3: the Raiders, Like teams do this stuff all the time.
Speaker 3: I remember twenty nineteen Patriots opener against Pittsburgh here and
Speaker 3: the Patriots had just signed Antonio Brown, I believe the
Speaker 3: day before. He didn't play in the game, but the
Speaker 3: day before, and they had their opener and they beat
Speaker 3: the Steelers pretty handedly, like they always did with Tom
Speaker 3: and the Red Sox announced right after, as I was
Speaker 3: standing in the locker room post game, that they had
Speaker 3: fired Dave dem Browski and so they clearly it's like
Speaker 3: when you fire somebody on parade day, right, like you're
Speaker 3: clearly burying the story. And that's what this reminded me of.
Speaker 3: And I guess maybe I'm I'm sensitive more to it
Speaker 3: because I've covered Josh McDaniels, and I, you know, respect
Speaker 3: him as a human being, so I wouldn't just do
Speaker 3: that to somebody. But I know where we're going with this,
Speaker 3: so I'll refrain.
Speaker 1: But no, no, that's quite run. I want you to
Speaker 1: I want you to be able to tell me how
Speaker 1: you feel about it, because that's that's kind of leads
Speaker 1: me into what I was going to ask anyway, And
Speaker 1: the question would be, you know, do the Patriots still
Speaker 1: think enough of Josh and or Dave Ziegler to bring
Speaker 1: one or both of them back within the family fold,
Speaker 1: so to speak, and let them work here now. I
Speaker 1: don't know what they feel about their own personal careers,
Speaker 1: because I'd be surprised if Josh ever becomes a head
Speaker 1: coach in the NFL again based on his track record
Speaker 1: this far. Is this enough for him? Or does he
Speaker 1: go try the college root or does he try to
Speaker 1: do something else, or does he go into something completely.
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious to your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: And should the Patriots kick a tire and someone who's
Speaker 1: very familiar with the inner workings hear and can he
Speaker 1: make things better?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So if it was as simple as will he
Speaker 3: make us better football? Team yes or no, then I
Speaker 3: would say yes, right. I think that the one thing
Speaker 3: that I really would be interested in bringing McDaniels back
Speaker 3: for is the run game. His run game is fantastic.
Speaker 3: And I know that they didn't run the ball particularly
Speaker 3: well in Vegas this year, but they obviously the rushing
Speaker 3: champ last year with Josh Jacobs, and in twenty one
Speaker 3: was by far their best rushing season in probably three
Speaker 3: or four years, not to mention twenty with Cam Newton,
Speaker 3: where they ran the ball like crazy too. But he's
Speaker 3: always designed a really really good early down run game
Speaker 3: and play action marrying it together the gap schemes and
Speaker 3: the full back and all this stuff, and I just
Speaker 3: I think that they could use that, you know, I
Speaker 3: think that they could use some help in that regard, because,
Speaker 3: let's face it, I think that there is something to
Speaker 3: be said for the fact that Remandre doesn't necessarily look
Speaker 3: like the same guy in terms of his explosiveness as
Speaker 3: compared to last year. But also I don't think that
Speaker 3: anybody predicted that the Patriots wouldn't be able to run
Speaker 3: the ball like this, so maybe him and I also
Speaker 3: know I think he might stay on Bohart agree is
Speaker 3: taking over as the offensive coordinator, and it sounds like
Speaker 3: Carmen Brisillo, their offensive line coach, is going to stay
Speaker 3: for now with Vegas. But I would be very interest
Speaker 3: in bringing back Brisillo as well because for all of
Speaker 3: like the post Scarnekia issues on the offensive line, Brisillo
Speaker 3: took over as the permanent, like full time offensive line
Speaker 3: coach in twenty one, but they had good lines in
Speaker 3: twenty and twenty one under him here, So he's a
Speaker 3: good line coach. I think he knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3: So those those two things, and it was Ziegler, but
Speaker 3: you know, just quickly with McDaniel's, like you mentioned, like
Speaker 3: it's if it was that simple, like does he make
Speaker 3: you a better football team or not, I would probably
Speaker 3: say yes, he would. He would help, He would help.
Speaker 3: But I think the problem is is that he there's
Speaker 3: too many cooks in the kitchen at that point. And
Speaker 3: I'd also say it kind of undermines Bill O'Brien. Of
Speaker 3: course it does, Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And that's why I asked the question, because if you
Speaker 1: actually brought Josh in, I don't know, before the end
Speaker 1: of the year or whatever, Yeah, what does this do
Speaker 1: to Bill O'Brien and and you know, is that fair?
Speaker 1: And do you do that to so I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know fair in love Warren football, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely fair. And I think if you're Mac Jones,
Speaker 3: and this would be my biggest concern. Like last year
Speaker 3: where you had Patricia, Judge, Belichick all these voices in
Speaker 3: your ear telling you things, it kind of creates a
Speaker 3: situation where it's like, well, am I listening to Josh
Speaker 3: or I'm listening to to Bill? Like who's in charge here?
Speaker 1: You're defeating the very purpose you're bringing him in for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I would say that naturally if you're Mac,
Speaker 3: wouldn't you kind of gravitate towards Josh a little bit?
Speaker 3: Because that was the best football he was here as
Speaker 3: a rookie and he played you know, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm su right, So I would worry about that.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people brought up twenty eleven
Speaker 3: where Josh was fired by the Rams. I think at
Speaker 3: that point, well, the head coach of the Rams was
Speaker 3: fired and so he lost his job as the offensive
Speaker 3: coordinator and he came back to the Patriots in the
Speaker 3: playoff run in twenty eleven as a consultant to build O'Brien.
Speaker 3: But Bill O'Brien had already made it known privately that
Speaker 3: he was going to Penn State, so he was already
Speaker 3: one foot out the door at that point. So they
Speaker 3: brought Josh McDaniels back in eleven knowing he was going
Speaker 3: to take over in twelve job. Right, So if you're
Speaker 3: telling me that, internally they know that Bill O'Brien is
Speaker 3: going to Michigan State next year and he's not going
Speaker 3: to be here, and then it's just like twenty eleven.
Speaker 3: But if Bill O'Brien doesn't have another job lined up
Speaker 3: and the plan is to retain Bill O'Brien, then you
Speaker 3: can't bring back Josh McDaniels. No, it's just the optics
Speaker 3: of it don't work.
Speaker 1: So that would tell you, you know, if Josh somehow does
Speaker 1: reappear in the Patriot offices, bill O'Brien ain't gonna be here.
Speaker 1: That's what I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say so as well. And I think
Speaker 3: the same thing for Ziegler, just really quickly with him
Speaker 3: like that was Macroe's former boss, Dave Ziegler was in
Speaker 3: Macro's chair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what a position do you put him in?
Speaker 3: You're right, And so it's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 3: Dave Ziegler is like over his shoulder, like just waiting
Speaker 3: in the wings to to swoop in if macro F's up.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So as much as I think that, as much
Speaker 3: as I think that that Ziegler could maybe help them,
Speaker 3: especially on the pro side, I think that's more where
Speaker 3: his background is is pro personnel. It's it is a
Speaker 3: sticky situation because Elliott Wolf's here for that, and grow
Speaker 3: is here for that. And so now you have again
Speaker 3: similar situation.
Speaker 1: All right, But before we move on, I gotta ask
Speaker 1: you real quickly about the Redskins. Okay, that's one one. Damn,
Speaker 1: I just did that.
Speaker 3: Yeah he did. Hang on, and I hear, I hear.
Speaker 3: I stood up for you.
Speaker 1: I know you did, all right, So that means the
Speaker 1: next one you lose the bet, all right? Yeah, the
Speaker 1: Commander's game on Sunday, having traded away arguably two of
Speaker 1: their best defenders.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And I don't know what this says about Sunday's game
Speaker 1: other than the fact that, well, it's the next game
Speaker 1: that you gotta win on this list. Otherwise, what happens so,
Speaker 1: and can anything still happen at this day?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So big picture, which team actually cares and wants
Speaker 3: to win this game is probably gonna win.
Speaker 1: This could be about a thirteen to seven special. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But that being said, I think the easiest way to
Speaker 3: do this because let's face it, both these teams are
Speaker 3: not very good, right, So it's not like I'm coming
Speaker 3: at it where I think that there's all these matchup
Speaker 3: minutias to talk about. But my concerns, I think is
Speaker 3: the easiest way to put it. If you want the
Speaker 3: Patriots to keep trying to win, my concern would be
Speaker 3: number one, they still have Jonathan Allen and Doron Payne
Speaker 3: coming up the middle. And what we have seen with
Speaker 3: Mac Jones is that if you get that push up
Speaker 3: the middle the pocket, he becomes jittery in the pocket.
Speaker 3: And I'm looking at a rookie at right Garden City
Speaker 3: so and I'm looking at Cole Strange, who has certainly
Speaker 3: had his ups and downs in the first two years
Speaker 3: of the season. And those are two Pro Bowl tackles
Speaker 3: that are going to be coming right after Mac Jones.
Speaker 3: So that concerns me. It does offensively. What concerns me
Speaker 3: is that Eric b Enemy, the offensive coordinator for the Commanders,
Speaker 3: is really freaking good at his job. And they run
Speaker 3: a system that is he runs the Andy Reid system.
Speaker 3: It's the Andy Reid offense. So that Andy Reid offense,
Speaker 3: whether it's been Nick Foles with the Eagles in the
Speaker 3: Super Bowl, Alex Smith, Patrick Mahomes, it hasn't mattered nop.
Speaker 3: The Patriots have had problems schematically with the Andy Reid offense.
Speaker 3: And I think that the Commanders they they are not
Speaker 3: talent deprived on offense. They have some receivers, you know,
Speaker 3: Terry mclaurin's a really good receiver. Johan Dotson's kind of
Speaker 3: coming into his own. Curtis Samuel if he's healthy. I
Speaker 3: know he left the game last week, so I don't
Speaker 3: know if he's one hundred percent. Curtis Samuel is a
Speaker 3: nice gadget player. Logan Thomas is a sneaky good red
Speaker 3: zone target at tight end. So they don't have you know,
Speaker 3: they're not one of these teams that has no weapons
Speaker 3: and has no talent. And he will put that on
Speaker 3: top of the fact that they have a really good
Speaker 3: I mean, they scored thirty one points last week against
Speaker 3: the Eagles.
Speaker 1: Yep, so true.
Speaker 3: I am worried a little bit about this game in
Speaker 3: terms of pressure up the middle, and the enemy is
Speaker 3: going to have the seventeen you know, the Super Bowl
Speaker 3: game plan from Philadelphia, the game plans they used in
Speaker 3: Kansas City against this Patriots defense, and he's going to
Speaker 3: have all of those those man beaters ready.
Speaker 1: You know, then why is Washington three and five?
Speaker 3: I think there's a couple of reasons. One of their
Speaker 3: defense is ve terribly underperformed. I don't even know what
Speaker 3: the right adjective is. They've vastly underperformed on defense. They're
Speaker 3: thirty first in the league in scoring defense right now,
Speaker 3: with a defense that has a talent on the defensive
Speaker 3: line especially. So that's why they broke up their roster construction,
Speaker 3: was because they they were built on the defensive line.
Speaker 3: You know, those four guys across Young Allen Payne Sweat
Speaker 3: were making like a combined hundred million dollars and they
Speaker 3: were thirty first in the league in defense. So they
Speaker 3: had to break it up from a roster construction standpoint. Offensively,
Speaker 3: I hate to let, you know, blame it all on him,
Speaker 3: but Howel's had, you know, been inconsistent, and they've they've.
Speaker 1: Had some issues on the offension, Sammy.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, they've had some issues on the offensive line too,
Speaker 3: but in general they've they've taken h forty one sacks
Speaker 3: through eight games, so that that's those are some of
Speaker 3: the reasons why.
Speaker 1: They are where they imagine if mac hatt taking forty one.
Speaker 3: So the Howel's been sacked forty one times, that's what
Speaker 3: I mean. Daniel Jones's second.
Speaker 1: He'd be a grease spot on the highway.
Speaker 3: Daniel Jones' is second with twenty eight so he's been
Speaker 3: sacked thirteen more times than the next quarterback. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: it's not been good.
Speaker 1: Thanks buddy anytime. Always appreciated at e Z Lazare on
Speaker 1: X see. Yeah I didn't say Twitter. There you go.
Speaker 1: All right, coming up with the pro Ben Vollen from
Speaker 1: the Boston Global join us. Been standing gook. The commanders
Speaker 1: for the athletic will join us in a little bit.
Speaker 1: Russell Baxter now number two on week nine already around
Speaker 1: the NFL, and Ben joins us here from the Boston Club. Hey, Ben,
Speaker 1: how are you? Thanks for the time today.
Speaker 7: I'm doing a little bit better than Josh mccaniels. Today,
Speaker 7: I too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that that is obviously a part of
Speaker 1: our conversation today because it's pretty easy to see that,
Speaker 1: you know, where Josh has had a success, it's been here,
Speaker 1: And I just I wonder if, you know, the Patriots
Speaker 1: pick up the phone and place a call or do
Speaker 1: they just kind of let things chill for a while
Speaker 1: and then maybe Josh picks up the phone and says, hey,
Speaker 1: you need any help. I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 1: you really approach this and should you even approach it?
Speaker 1: Is it the right thing to do, especially when you're
Speaker 1: trying to build toward you at least a little bit
Speaker 1: in a different direction with a guy like, you know,
Speaker 1: a Bill O'Brien.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think ultimately, big picture, Josh mccaniels would probably
Speaker 7: love to return to New England, bring his family back,
Speaker 7: you know, re enrolled his kids in the schools that
Speaker 7: they grew up in and reconnect with their friends and
Speaker 7: all that. So I do think stability would be important
Speaker 7: for him and coming back to a place that he knows.
Speaker 7: But I don't think it's going to happen in season
Speaker 7: this year. I think Evan mentioned it before. It's a
Speaker 7: there's too much shadow there if you bring in McDaniels
Speaker 7: to kind of consult right now with you know, kind
Speaker 7: of looking over Bill O'Brien's shoulder, that that's that's not
Speaker 7: good optics. Too many chefs in the kitchen. I don't
Speaker 7: think Bill O'Brien would really appreciate that. And frankly, I
Speaker 7: think McDaniel's probably, as most coaches do at this time,
Speaker 7: just wants to decompress. Yeah, he is getting a nice
Speaker 7: buyout from the Raiders.
Speaker 1: Ben. They got to pay him for four years.
Speaker 7: I mean, no one knows the exact details of the contract,
Speaker 7: as coaches contracts usually don't get shared. But yes, it
Speaker 7: does sound like Mark Davis is going to be paying
Speaker 7: a big fat buy out.
Speaker 8: Not only did Josh.
Speaker 7: McDaniels, but Dave Sziggler and other members that coaching staff too.
Speaker 1: Isn't he still paying on John Gruden?
Speaker 7: Well, so I wrote this in the Globe. So to
Speaker 7: me firing McDaniels right now, I think it kind of
Speaker 7: opens the door to maybe John Gruden returning. I mean,
Speaker 7: you look at Mark Davis, He's already paying a big
Speaker 7: fat buyout to John Gruden. He still had six years
Speaker 7: left on a ten year deal. And now he's paying
Speaker 7: a buyout to McDaniels and Gruden, who is suing the
Speaker 7: NFL over his termination, is winning in court. He's beating
Speaker 7: the NFL in court, and he just want a key
Speaker 7: decision over the summer to keep it in court and
Speaker 7: not have the lawsuit moved to arbitration.
Speaker 9: So I don't know.
Speaker 7: I mean, Mark Davids didn't want to fire John Gruden.
Speaker 6: To begin with.
Speaker 7: He's basically held at gunpoint forced to do it by
Speaker 7: the NFL. I don't know. I think there's a scenario
Speaker 7: now where Gruden agrees to drop.
Speaker 1: The lawsuit in the NFL and gets his job back.
Speaker 7: Allows the Raiders to green state John Gruten.
Speaker 1: That would be crazy, wouldn't it. I mean, it would
Speaker 1: it would be. I mean, it would be a side
Speaker 1: show perfect for Sin City in Las Vegas, without a doubt.
Speaker 1: I mean, three ring circles, the whole nine yards. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, it just that would leave me
Speaker 1: shaking my head on that one.
Speaker 7: It'd be tough, especially because they'd have to, you know,
Speaker 7: bring up the whole all the circumstances why Gruden was
Speaker 7: fired at the person late, right, But I don't know,
Speaker 7: you know, time does heal wound. And you know, the Raiders,
Speaker 7: they do have some minorities in key positions now in
Speaker 7: the organization, and I don't know, I do I do
Speaker 7: see a scenario where they could, you know, Gruden would
Speaker 7: come back with his tail, talk between his legs, offer
Speaker 7: all kinds of public apologies, and then they would try
Speaker 7: to hopefully just kind of move on because I'm you know,
Speaker 7: of all the that that seem is a mess right now,
Speaker 7: it needs a total rebuild, and what coach worth their
Speaker 7: salt is going to go there when they just saw
Speaker 7: that McDaniels was just whacked after a year and a
Speaker 7: half to even get a chance to see anything through,
Speaker 7: the one guy that would get the fans excited again
Speaker 7: would be Grooded. I mean, I think the Raider Nations
Speaker 7: still Gruden, you know that, like that would be the
Speaker 7: one guy that would excite everyone. Sure, So to me
Speaker 7: right now it's just kind of a speculation, but I
Speaker 7: think there's a path there for Gruden to return, all.
Speaker 1: Right, So you know where you know, does you know
Speaker 1: whether or not Josh McDaniels does end up back this
Speaker 1: where if you take some time off, which certainly makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me, at least at this
Speaker 1: stage of the game before he decides to jump back
Speaker 1: into something right away. Fact remains is is that the
Speaker 1: trading deadline came, it went New England did nothing. I
Speaker 1: was not surprised by that. I don't think you were either,
Speaker 1: were you?
Speaker 7: I don't know if I wasn't surprised that they didn't
Speaker 7: have a fire sale. I didn't expect them to trade
Speaker 7: everyone off. I mean, Bill Belichick wants to win games
Speaker 7: and keep his job this year, so he's not gonna
Speaker 7: just make the team worse and trade off guys for fourth.
Speaker 5: And fifth round pick. I thought, maybe, you know, a
Speaker 5: deal could have been made.
Speaker 7: Josh Ue Jay's name was certainly thrown around a lot
Speaker 7: at the end of the day, though, I think Patriots
Speaker 7: fans should be glad that they didn't have a fire sale,
Speaker 7: because the reason a big reason this team is in
Speaker 7: the pretty it's in is because they haven't been retaining
Speaker 7: their own players. They have been drafting and developing some
Speaker 7: good players, and then they let them all get paid
Speaker 7: by other teams, whether it's Joe Toney or Chandler Jones
Speaker 7: or Logan, Ryan J. C. Jackson, Jacoby Myers. The list
Speaker 7: over the last eight or nine years is very lengthy,
Speaker 7: and the Patriots need to start operating like the other
Speaker 7: thirty one teams. You need to spend money on your
Speaker 7: own players and retain your own talent. Especially the NFL,
Speaker 7: they have spending minimum, and free agency is like a wasteland.
Speaker 7: Now we're seeing it this year. It's all B level
Speaker 7: free agents. It's guys that teams don't want any more.
Speaker 7: You're you know, it's hard to really build a team
Speaker 7: through free agency. You could find an impact guy here
Speaker 7: or there, but you don't want to have to rely
Speaker 7: on free agency to build your team.
Speaker 9: And to spend money.
Speaker 7: You got to spend on your own players, your own
Speaker 7: star players. So guys like Kyle Dugger, Mike and Wnu
Speaker 7: Josh Bucha, they need to retain these guys. They need
Speaker 7: to spend money. And yeah, they might have to overspend
Speaker 7: a little bit for Kyle Dugger, but he's a playmaker.
Speaker 7: He's a guy that you've developed and part of your
Speaker 7: culture now, and you need to retain guys like that.
Speaker 5: So I'm I.
Speaker 7: Think Patriots fans should be hopeful that you know, yesterday's
Speaker 7: trade deadline inactivity, the fact that they didn't do a
Speaker 7: fire sale is at least a sign that the Patriots
Speaker 7: are going to try to start retaining their own players
Speaker 7: because they've let way too much.
Speaker 9: Talent go up.
Speaker 1: But are they retaining at least in this particular instance,
Speaker 1: I think it's a fair question to ask, are they
Speaker 1: retaining the right players? If they retain them, are they
Speaker 1: retaining the right ones? You can make a case already that,
Speaker 1: you know, the the biggest player they probably should have retained,
Speaker 1: they let go a guy named Brady.
Speaker 5: I think, well, yeah.
Speaker 7: I mean yes, I do think they should have found
Speaker 7: a way to let Brady retire as a Patriots, especially
Speaker 7: after they got rid of Jimmy Garoppolo and let Brady.
Speaker 8: Kind of win that.
Speaker 7: Look, you know, we can sit here and pick apart
Speaker 7: these guys and focus on their negatives. Kyle dugger isn't
Speaker 7: great playing in fake you know, Mike and WNU hasn't
Speaker 7: been able to consistently stay in the lineup. But it's
Speaker 7: also good to focus on their positives. Kyle Duggart is
Speaker 7: a playmaker, the guy interception sacks, touchdowns, always around the ball,
Speaker 7: hard hit. Mike went who a versatile alignman who could
Speaker 7: play multiple positions. You need leaders in the locker room.
Speaker 7: You need to show the players that their efforts are
Speaker 7: going to be rewarded by the Patriots, not by another
Speaker 7: team if they play well and if they develop, and
Speaker 7: I mean obviously it all comes down to, you know,
Speaker 7: whether you find the quarterback and get the offense right. So, yeah,
Speaker 7: retaining Kyle Duggart in of itself isn't going to lead
Speaker 7: to wins. But you need to start keeping your own
Speaker 7: talented players. And you need to have veterans who are
Speaker 7: invested in the team and the culture and the Patriots
Speaker 7: right now, because they were built mostly through free agency,
Speaker 7: it's just like a bunch of mercenaries and it's not
Speaker 7: a very talented team and guys who aren't that invested
Speaker 7: in the Patriots program.
Speaker 1: And the quickest way I know to turn a guy
Speaker 1: from mercenary to one of your own is to sign
Speaker 1: them to another deal. Makes sense, right, Yeah, Like Hunter
Speaker 1: Henry you know, started his career as a charger, but
Speaker 1: he's been here now for three years.
Speaker 7: He'll be twenty nine next year. You know, is he
Speaker 7: going to be an All Pro tight end? Probably not,
Speaker 7: but he's a reliable player. Whoever is the quarterback, whether
Speaker 7: if Max Jones or someone else. They're gonna need a
Speaker 7: veteran tight end who knows how to get open. If
Speaker 7: the Patriots draft the guy in the first or second round,
Speaker 7: they're still gonna need Hunter Henry to show them away
Speaker 7: and take the pressure off them right away. So you
Speaker 7: still need to bring back the veterans. You can't just
Speaker 7: tear the team down to the stud You can be
Speaker 7: competitive while you're rebuilding. So, you know, I don't think
Speaker 7: the Patriots necessarily need to bring everyone back that. You know,
Speaker 7: the guy I wouldn't I'd be okay with would maybe
Speaker 7: be Josh Uch, who I think is a pass rusher,
Speaker 7: is probably gonna get a huge contract that I don't
Speaker 7: know if it's gonna match what kind of player he is.
Speaker 1: He's down with you, Miles Bryant.
Speaker 7: Hunter Henry bring these guys back and help build culture
Speaker 7: instead of just constantly flushing the roster every fre year.
Speaker 1: But the same time and again, I'll just play devil's
Speaker 1: advocate here. You know, if these guys are not performing
Speaker 1: on the field for whatever reason, and whenever they have
Speaker 1: the opportunity, what's the point in bringing back to somebody
Speaker 1: who's not going to contribute to re establishing your culture.
Speaker 7: Well, I would argue the guys that I'm talking about
Speaker 7: are I mean, Hunter Henry his production is directly tied
Speaker 7: to the quarterback, and I personally don't think mac Jones
Speaker 7: is the right quarterback.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 7: As for Kyle Zugar, I mean he's playing well. He
Speaker 7: had a stacked the other day and an interception, and
Speaker 7: Mike and Wentu is solidifying the offensive line.
Speaker 9: Now at right sackle.
Speaker 7: These are quality young players who will get signed in
Speaker 7: free agency immediately if the Patriots let them go. They
Speaker 7: are not perfect, you know, they're not necessarily going to
Speaker 7: put the Patriots over the top. But these guys are
Speaker 7: good quality young players and that's who the Patriots need
Speaker 7: to start retaining.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess then in order to be able
Speaker 1: to make that decision, now is the time that these guys,
Speaker 1: if they're able to play, they need to be out
Speaker 1: there playing so these decisions can be made. And that's
Speaker 1: kind of how we open the show today. I mean,
Speaker 1: you say, oh, there's nothing to play for. This team
Speaker 1: is two and six. You're not going anywhere, well maybe
Speaker 1: not to the playoffs, but you're still looking at a
Speaker 1: significant amount of growth that this organization needs to do,
Speaker 1: which starts with some of these players and trying to
Speaker 1: make this decision on whether or not so and so
Speaker 1: needs to return or so and so needs to move on,
Speaker 1: And that process does have to start now, doesn't it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I hate to say it, but the Patriots are getting
Speaker 7: to a point where the players they need to be
Speaker 7: in it for themselves. It's not necessarily for the team
Speaker 7: anymore to ensure that, you know, you have a roster
Speaker 7: spot next year, whether it's with the Patriots or someone else.
Speaker 7: I mean, the camera is always rolling that there's always
Speaker 7: film that's going to be dissected, so you never want
Speaker 7: to put bad film out there. But at the same time,
Speaker 7: I think the players now just have to make sure
Speaker 7: they look out for themselves. And you might see a
Speaker 7: look Kyle Dugger where he's at his career. In his
Speaker 7: fourth year, he's pretty much cemented what type of player
Speaker 7: he is, whether he plays the rest of the year
Speaker 7: or not. And so I'm not I don't want to
Speaker 7: accuse him of anything, but like a guy like that
Speaker 7: doesn't necessarily need to play every last snap. Now, you know,
Speaker 7: going into free agency, he might want to take some
Speaker 7: snaps off. So those are the types of things that
Speaker 7: the Patriots are gonna have to battle here in.
Speaker 5: The second half season.
Speaker 1: What are you then? What are your thoughts? Then quickly
Speaker 1: on on the Commander's game this weekend and what this
Speaker 1: might mean in the bigger picture especially. I mean, I
Speaker 1: hate to put anything in a must win or whatever
Speaker 1: situation like that, because everybody thinks about that in terms
Speaker 1: of the next game, the next week and the next opportunity.
Speaker 1: I think we kind of that time is kind of
Speaker 1: come and gone. What's at stake this weekend?
Speaker 7: Well, I yea, the playoffs are probably a long gone
Speaker 7: at this point, so it's not like a must win
Speaker 7: in that situation. Honestly, I think Belichick meets the win
Speaker 7: in the worst way. If he loses that home to
Speaker 7: the Commanders, Oh boy, is that hot seat talk gonna increase?
Speaker 7: They go to Germany and then they have a.
Speaker 5: Bye week after that.
Speaker 7: I mean, who knows, who knows what could happen. I
Speaker 7: wouldn't put anything past the Craft if they come home
Speaker 7: from that Germany trip.
Speaker 9: At two an eight.
Speaker 7: Who knows what would happen? So I think Belichick, you know,
Speaker 7: you got a bad, reeling Commander's team coming into town.
Speaker 7: That just traded away two of its star players, guys
Speaker 7: who were popular in the locker room. You saw some
Speaker 7: players kind of speak out on social media the other day.
Speaker 7: So the Patriots are I think fortunate. They're playing a
Speaker 7: team that even more scarred emotionally than they are, and
Speaker 7: the team that might be trying less on Sunday. You
Speaker 7: know Evan mentioned before Sam Howell and the stacks. Honestly,
Speaker 7: I think that's going to be the key. Belichick's gonna
Speaker 7: scheme up some stunts. They're going to get some pressures.
Speaker 7: I thought the Patriots defense played a lot better against
Speaker 7: the Dolphins, despite the score and some of the staffs.
Speaker 7: I thought they fought really hard and it made plays.
Speaker 7: If there was any sort of offensive production, the defense
Speaker 7: I think would have looked a lot better. So coming
Speaker 7: off that Bills game, and then I think they did
Speaker 7: play better last week. So I think the defense is
Speaker 7: going to make Sam Howell's life very difficult on Sunday,
Speaker 7: and so I expect the Patriots kind of to be
Speaker 7: a classic Patriots win in the sense of the defense
Speaker 7: creates the turnovers, gets towards the points, puts mac Jones
Speaker 7: in a good situation. So I am expecting a Patriots
Speaker 7: win this Sunday, and it might just cool things off
Speaker 7: around here for a little bit as they had Germany.
Speaker 7: Give them some positive vibes heading into that trip. If not,
Speaker 7: if they do lose at home, to the commanders, man,
Speaker 7: it's going to get ugly around here really quickly.
Speaker 1: Ben, thanks so much for the time today. Appreciate the
Speaker 1: chance to talk to you. All right, thank you, you
Speaker 1: got it, Ben Volan at ben Volan v O l
Speaker 1: I in on X. All right, let's talk about the
Speaker 1: team that might be just as wounded emotionally, if not physically,
Speaker 1: as the Patriots are, and that would be the commander.
Speaker 1: Ben Standing covers Washington for the Athletic the Athletic dot
Speaker 1: com and Ben Joyce is here inside the Patriots playbook.
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Ben, if you heard Ben Vollen's comments here.
Speaker 1: It's an all Ben day. I guess here inside the playbook.
Speaker 1: You know, was that your job, Matt? Did you do
Speaker 1: that on purpose? Not plan that well? It worked out well?
Speaker 1: It worked out well? Is he accurate and saying that,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this Washington team is just as wounded,
Speaker 1: if not, you know, a little bit more so psychologically
Speaker 1: than the Patriots are. At this stage.
Speaker 6: It's interesting a lot.
Speaker 8: I just heard him say that Bill Bill Bellichick could
Speaker 8: be on the hot seat if they lose to this
Speaker 8: commander's team, and that's that. That says something about where
Speaker 8: the commanders are at, and that's somenning that that's where
Speaker 8: Bill Belichick.
Speaker 6: Might be at.
Speaker 8: But yeah, it's a big question, right. Obviously, they've lost
Speaker 8: five or six games. Some of those losses have been
Speaker 8: really embarrassing to some of the worst teams in the league.
Speaker 8: And now you just trade it away two of your
Speaker 8: better players in Montese Wett and Chase Young, and it's
Speaker 8: natural to think some of the players could be like,
Speaker 8: oh man, where is the season going?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 8: And we saw some of that reaction on social media
Speaker 8: after the trade. I don't know, though, if I expect
Speaker 8: to see that. I think I think Ron Rivera has
Speaker 8: done a largely good job at keeping these guys focused
Speaker 8: on the task at hand. The last law they just
Speaker 8: had against Philadelphia thirty eight to thirty one. You know,
Speaker 8: the offense in particular had a pretty good game, and
Speaker 8: I think they competed in battle with all that fun stuff.
Speaker 8: They've had a lot of issues on defense already, so
Speaker 8: I can't say that's going to get cleaned up that
Speaker 8: they've traded away sweat and young. On the other hand,
Speaker 8: historically over the last two or three years, the team
Speaker 8: has actually been more disciplined and in some statistics better
Speaker 8: when some of the reserves have come in because those
Speaker 8: because those guys are more disciplined. I guess you could say,
Speaker 8: like they kind of you're the less defensive ends, your
Speaker 8: role is this, and they stick to that. Before when
Speaker 8: they have four guys who are Pro Bowl level players,
Speaker 8: everybody kind of is trying to get their own even
Speaker 8: if they're working together. I think that's where things get
Speaker 8: out of whack. So they actually could be fundamentally a
Speaker 8: more stable group. And then you know a lot of
Speaker 8: it's going to come down to Sam Howe, right, obviously
Speaker 8: a young quarterback, still learning, but he's had some good games.
Speaker 8: His best game of the year is probably the pass
Speaker 8: one against the Eagles. So I totally get that this
Speaker 8: team could come out flat and be disinterested, But I
Speaker 8: don't know if I expect that, So I think that
Speaker 8: will be interesting to see for sure.
Speaker 1: I wanted to I wanted to ask you. I'll ask
Speaker 1: you about Sam Hall in a second. But when the
Speaker 1: trades were made, you know, on Tuesday and Montes sweat
Speaker 1: I and you wrote a piece in the Athletic about
Speaker 1: this that you know, the commanders, I guess, largely wanted
Speaker 1: to keep him if they could. Why do you think
Speaker 1: they ultimately decided to deal him and young both, especially
Speaker 1: considering I mean, mathematically they've got more of a shot
Speaker 1: certainly than New England does. And I realized they operate
Speaker 1: in different universes. But I just found one of them maybe,
Speaker 1: but both of them. I found that a bit curious.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it was. I think that wasn't the expectation.
Speaker 8: But the more we, you know, feel the layers of
Speaker 8: the onion, it kind of makes a little more sense
Speaker 8: in this regard. They opened the door to the league
Speaker 8: to say, hey, we're open to trading these guys. I
Speaker 8: think one thing that we're realize here is all the
Speaker 8: Patriots have had the same ownership forever and been very
Speaker 8: successful owner. Obviously the commander has just told they're right,
Speaker 8: said Josh Harris, taking over for Dan Snyder, and he
Speaker 8: only got the team literally the day before training camp started,
Speaker 8: So there has been no impact from ownership on the situation.
Speaker 8: And I'm not saying he heavy handed round Rivera and
Speaker 8: said you've got to do this. But I do think
Speaker 8: with a new owner, the future is now at least
Speaker 8: writing Shotgune to the present, which was not been the
Speaker 8: case though its typically they've been short sighted, I would say,
Speaker 8: with a lot of their moves, even pre dating Rivera.
Speaker 8: So this was a more forward thinking move that realistically,
Speaker 8: yeah we're only three and five, Yeah we're only one
Speaker 8: game out of the wild Card, but realistically we've seen
Speaker 8: too much to think that this is going to be
Speaker 8: a complete turnaround. I don't think they think they've bailed
Speaker 8: on the season because, as I said, they've got some
Speaker 8: guys at defensive ends we will now step in who
Speaker 8: played James Smith, Williams, Casey two Hill Fa Albata. Not
Speaker 8: saying they're pro bowlards, but they've played, they've been solid,
Speaker 8: So I think from that perspective, they're looking at it
Speaker 8: like we can still move forward here. And apologies, I
Speaker 8: just blank on what you were No.
Speaker 1: No, no, it's understood. I would just if you were
Speaker 1: largely surprised, and let me give you a little bit
Speaker 1: different context on it. Because of the fact that Ron
Speaker 1: Rivera might need players of that caliber to help win games,
Speaker 1: which might help him keep his job in the first place.
Speaker 8: Sure, so I think ultimately they really wanted to keep
Speaker 8: monteste Wet. I think he's been much more reliable than
Speaker 8: Chase hung, more durable, more productive. Maybe he doesn't have
Speaker 8: the same upside, but he's been good that he's could
Speaker 8: in the locker room, all those things, So I think
Speaker 8: they wanted to keep him. But when they opened the
Speaker 8: door to trade possibilities and the Chicago Bears said, hey,
Speaker 8: will give you our second round pick, which as it
Speaker 8: stands today would be like the third pick in the
Speaker 8: second round. And I don't think anybody's projecting the Bears
Speaker 8: to go on some big run here, right, So it's
Speaker 8: probably gonna be a pretty good pick. And Chase, Sorry,
Speaker 8: montest Wet a free agent after this year. I'm not
Speaker 8: saying would be impossible to get an extension, but you know,
Speaker 8: I don't know who knows for sure. And if you
Speaker 8: wait the year and let him go for compensatory pick one,
Speaker 8: you may not even get that compensatory pick for a
Speaker 8: variety of reasons, and two, you wouldn't even get it
Speaker 8: until twenty twenty five. So I think that all the
Speaker 8: circumstances has led to them saying this is too good
Speaker 8: of an offer to pass on. But then why then
Speaker 8: trade Chase Young. I think the perception outside of this
Speaker 8: area has Chase Young is probably the more interesting player,
Speaker 8: the more dynamic player, the one you would keep. I
Speaker 8: don't think that's the view of a lot of people here.
Speaker 8: It's not to say that Chase Young is bad or
Speaker 8: can't reach his potential. It's to say, it's been four years,
Speaker 8: there's injury concerns, you have a significant the injury in
Speaker 8: twenty twenty one, there's sort of improvement concerns. He's one
Speaker 8: of those guys that I would say has one at
Speaker 8: every level He's been at largely based on his natural
Speaker 8: abilities and athleticism and has not always maybe work to
Speaker 8: refine his pastor our skills, or do everything a pro
Speaker 8: needs to do to be at the next level. So
Speaker 8: I think they were rather than saying, hey, we're going
Speaker 8: to tag this guy for a twenty one million or
Speaker 8: payment extension, I don't think we've seen enough to want
Speaker 8: to give that. So if you're going to trade one,
Speaker 8: you know, let's just you know we're already we let's
Speaker 8: just dive into the pool kind of deal. So I
Speaker 8: think that's why if it had been reversed, if they
Speaker 8: traded Young, maybe they don't trade sweat. But once the
Speaker 8: offerer Sweat came in, I think the inside it we just.
Speaker 6: Just too good to pass.
Speaker 1: So they just decided, Hey, if we're as long as
Speaker 1: we're sort of going to build mode here, let's see
Speaker 1: we can get you know, maximum return I guess on
Speaker 1: the investment.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: So, and here's the other thing. Let's just say case
Speaker 8: Young and Montester to what we're gone some time ago
Speaker 8: and we're doing like the season preview of this team.
Speaker 8: You have two defensive tackles that were in the Pro
Speaker 8: Bowl last year, I mean Jonathan Allen. As they're on
Speaker 8: pain on the line, they're not deficient from a talent standpoint,
Speaker 8: and the guys that they can still in you know, again,
Speaker 8: I'm not saying that they're Pro Bowls, but they they've
Speaker 8: shown the ability to play like Okay, this is this
Speaker 8: as a minor example of James Smith Williams who's been
Speaker 8: here since twenty twenty as a seventh round pick in
Speaker 8: games and I looked this up today, in games in
Speaker 8: which he's played at least forty five percent of the snaps,
Speaker 8: this team is thirteen to five and one. Now, I
Speaker 8: don't know what was happening in the game, but I
Speaker 8: could promise you their winning percentage is not even close
Speaker 8: to thirteen five.
Speaker 5: And one over the last four years.
Speaker 8: So these guys can you know, they're not going to
Speaker 8: get put up flashy numbers, but they do their job
Speaker 8: and that's going to allow Allan and Pain to do
Speaker 8: their jobs at a higher level. That's the thinking at least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's certainly, as we mentioned a little bit
Speaker 1: earlier in the show, that that rally actually plays right
Speaker 1: into a patriot weakness, is going up the middle with
Speaker 1: the rush on guy like Mac Jones with guys like
Speaker 1: you know, Pain and Allen. So I got to ask
Speaker 1: the obvious, then, why is this team three and five
Speaker 1: with so much talent that it had at its disposal?
Speaker 1: Is it being misused? Is did that hurt? Where are you?
Speaker 1: What are being able to put your finger on?
Speaker 8: Well, you know, there's always so much going on here,
Speaker 8: and even though they've gotten rid of Dan Snyder, you know,
Speaker 8: there's still some stink from that era in terms of
Speaker 8: you know, what's transpired over the last few years and
Speaker 8: just even the football side of things and putting everything together.
Speaker 8: I think there has been some questions about coaching.
Speaker 6: I think that's fair.
Speaker 8: I think there's questions about the front office. This has
Speaker 8: been honestly a really disaster of an offseason for them.
Speaker 8: The draft class, almost nobody is contributing in any positive
Speaker 8: way or playing at all. The free agency they didn't
Speaker 8: do a ton in free agency this year, but the
Speaker 8: players that they did sign two deals. One was it
Speaker 8: center Nick Gates, he just got bench last week. Right
Speaker 8: tackle Andrew Wiley, who was with Eric the Enemy in
Speaker 8: Kansas City, has had a has had struggles for sure.
Speaker 8: So they've just gotten nothing out of their out of
Speaker 8: the new pieces that they added. And frankly, if you
Speaker 8: had told me before the year that they would struggle,
Speaker 8: I would assume that Sam Howe does you know, didn't
Speaker 8: have it rough start or whatever. He's keeping pretty solid.
Speaker 8: He's coming off his best game of the year, four
Speaker 8: touchdown passes against the Eagles. You know, he's stilly up
Speaker 8: and downs as a young quarterback, but he's actually been
Speaker 8: pretty good. But they've just not had you know, the
Speaker 8: defense has just been a mess. And you know, like
Speaker 8: I said, I think part of them with the defense
Speaker 8: is like you had. It's like season NBA analogy. You
Speaker 8: have like four guys who all wanted the ball and
Speaker 8: all wanted to Scots twenty points a game. You have
Speaker 8: to have somebody who's going to be set the picks
Speaker 8: right and taking charge of sure things like that, and
Speaker 8: they didn't have that. And that's why I think they're
Speaker 8: hopeful that maybe having two role players as a work
Speaker 8: with their two stars as the tackles helps them out more.
Speaker 8: But yeah, it's been a mess across the board, the defense,
Speaker 8: the pass protection, Sam Housman taxed forty one times already.
Speaker 8: It's been rough though. Yeah, there's a lot of a
Speaker 8: lot of ways to look at Wyse. Thing hasn't worked
Speaker 8: out so fart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Al Howell is the one that I obviously wanted
Speaker 1: to wanted to get to next. As long as everybody's
Speaker 1: jumping on him, might as well jump on his backside
Speaker 1: as well. Forty one sacks is extraordinary. It's what thirteen
Speaker 1: more than the next closest team, And I'm just wondering
Speaker 1: how he's held up, you know, how he speaks about that,
Speaker 1: how Ron Rivera deals with that. I mean, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: To me, the guy's even standing up right at this
Speaker 1: stage of the game.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's forty one sacks and they only had one
Speaker 8: last week, so.
Speaker 5: It was really bad.
Speaker 7: Wow.
Speaker 8: Prior to that, part of the sax is because he's
Speaker 8: been holding the ball a bit too long for from
Speaker 8: scan for the receivers. But he was a lot better
Speaker 8: this past week, frankly, and maybe that was also part
Speaker 8: to the play calling from Eric. The enemy called for
Speaker 8: a lot of quick throws, a lot of quick decisions
Speaker 8: had to be made, and he was and how was
Speaker 8: pretty good at that.
Speaker 5: Physically he seems okay, we.
Speaker 8: Haven't really seen you know, there hasn't been those moments
Speaker 8: where he's laying on the fields of going on though.
Speaker 6: Is he's going to get up?
Speaker 8: I'm sure he's hurting to a degree. But he's been
Speaker 8: you know, he's been pretty good. And you know he
Speaker 8: is he's a pretty gritty player. He doesn't have highs
Speaker 8: and lows. He really seems to be, you know, whether
Speaker 8: they're winning or losing. He seems to maintain a pretty good,
Speaker 8: even keel vibe and he and he's not afraid to
Speaker 8: throw the ball in places and you might think, oh boy,
Speaker 8: this is a really risky guts he throw, and he's
Speaker 8: not only attempted them, he's made some of them. If
Speaker 8: you go back and watch their game against the Denver
Speaker 8: and week too, he really makes them.
Speaker 6: Throwers are just like, wow, that could.
Speaker 8: Have been from the best quarterbacks in the league. He
Speaker 8: just has to learn, you know, as they all do,
Speaker 8: the various nuances of a position again, how to get rid
Speaker 8: of the ball quicker. So yeah, he's done pretty well.
Speaker 8: And also say last week they were they had two
Speaker 8: new starters on the offensive line, and that seemed to
Speaker 8: help them.
Speaker 5: In the middle of that line.
Speaker 1: What does Washington do particularly well and are those players
Speaker 1: still in Washington?
Speaker 5: The good question.
Speaker 8: I don't even know how to answer that at this point.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm mean mean to toss that one out at
Speaker 1: you like that, but I mean, to me, it was
Speaker 1: the it was the obvious. I'm like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: this team still seems to have some great pieces of
Speaker 1: the puzzle, but what the hell. And I'm sure that
Speaker 1: there are are commanders. Fans did feel the same way,
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 8: I mean, like, if you look at the offense, like
Speaker 8: Terry McLaurin, you know he's not a top five receiver
Speaker 8: but he's one of the better ones in the league.
Speaker 8: He makes tough catches. But even that last week against
Speaker 8: the Eagles, he had two balls front at him. Maybe
Speaker 8: they weren't drops, but he didn't bring them in either,
Speaker 8: and that ended a drive that was That was odd.
Speaker 8: Johan Dobson, who had a great rookie year, has been
Speaker 8: much quieter this year. The previous weekends the Giants fourth
Speaker 8: down in the end zone, end of the game, again
Speaker 8: not necessarily the easiest opportunity, but a play he could
Speaker 8: make and didn't dropped it. But those guys are pretty,
Speaker 8: you know, pretty talented, and they have Curtis.
Speaker 6: Samuel as well.
Speaker 8: On defense, Like I said, with Alan and Payne, you
Speaker 8: have two of the better defensive tackles in the middle.
Speaker 8: So in theory they just be pretty good against the
Speaker 8: run and things like that. But collectively that just hasn't
Speaker 8: worked out. And you know, we thought the secondary was
Speaker 8: going to be his strength. You have some nice pieces
Speaker 8: can curl it. Safety. One of the better young safety
Speaker 8: is in the league. Kendall Fuller has been around a while.
Speaker 8: He's pretty good at corner. But they draft Emmanuel Forbes
Speaker 8: in their first round, not instead of taking Christen Gonzales
Speaker 8: the whole other story. But Forbes has been getting lit
Speaker 8: up and he's had to be pinched basically at times.
Speaker 8: So it played. Yeah, it's like they have the stuff,
Speaker 8: they just the stuff that hasn't been delivering to the
Speaker 8: degree when you say.
Speaker 6: What are they good at?
Speaker 8: I'm like, wow, what they should be good at or
Speaker 8: some of those things. Yeah, but it just hasn't quite happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you put that blame on the on the
Speaker 1: coaching staff and and Ron River in particular, for these
Speaker 1: guys not developing to the potential that I guess was
Speaker 1: originally believed to be possible.
Speaker 8: I mean, I think you have to some degree, right,
Speaker 8: I mean, this is this would be his you know,
Speaker 8: if they finished the losing record, all four of rivera
Speaker 8: season would have been under five hundred. Yeah, his career.
Speaker 8: I believe it's now nine of his twelve years as
Speaker 8: a head coach he seems have finished under five hundred.
Speaker 8: So you know, it's hard to argue against that to
Speaker 8: a degree. But you know, and I also, as I
Speaker 8: said before, I think their off season transactions have really
Speaker 8: just not helped the cause.
Speaker 5: So you know, when when guys.
Speaker 8: Get hurt or you need other people to step up.
Speaker 8: Are those people doing it? Like the defensive line, even
Speaker 8: with Sweat and Young, they were fine this year. Like
Speaker 8: I'm not saying they were like a negative, but fine
Speaker 8: isn't enough. When you're invested all that first, all that
Speaker 8: draft capital and invested a lot of money into these guys.
Speaker 8: They have to be better or the other parts of
Speaker 8: your defense have to step up. And that hasn't happened,
Speaker 8: nor have they been, you know, so imposing that they're
Speaker 8: taking over games. They did a little bit early in
Speaker 8: the year, but not so much over the course of
Speaker 8: the season. So yeah, I mean, it's certainly a combination
Speaker 8: of the coaches and some of the players maybe just
Speaker 8: being asked to do more than they than they should
Speaker 8: be because of deficiencies elsewhere.
Speaker 1: Had to chuckle when you said he's had losing record
Speaker 1: nine of his twelve years a head coach, because if
Speaker 1: you Josh McDaniels, you've got to be wondering, what the
Speaker 1: hell do I do to get that shot? You know?
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, you know you got to go fifteen
Speaker 8: in one and make a Super Bowl.
Speaker 6: I guess would be.
Speaker 1: One thing, Like I guess that's.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: The three years that Rivera had winning record that were
Speaker 8: really extremely really good. One Coach of the Year awards,
Speaker 8: things like that. So yeah, that stuff like that helps.
Speaker 1: It does. It does buy a little extra time and
Speaker 1: a little extra consuit. Hey Ben, thank you for the
Speaker 1: time to do. Appreciate it and save travels this way.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I look forward to it and never been to until
Speaker 8: that stadium, so looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: Think, well, it's all gussied up for you. We have
Speaker 1: this lighthouse. I don't know if you've heard about it
Speaker 1: or not, but we got this big lighthouse and you know,
Speaker 1: big old scoreboard out in the value and I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what. Just ask for the clam chowder when you
Speaker 1: get here and you'll be all set. Serious I am,
Speaker 1: I am, I'm totally serious about the clam chowder. If
Speaker 1: you like the lighthouse rather, hey, good for you. You know,
Speaker 1: it was actually pretty fun going up there. But you
Speaker 1: know it's there are a lot of people run here
Speaker 1: a grouse about it because they're like, well, he spend
Speaker 1: all this money on the lighthouse, but they can't, you know,
Speaker 1: go out and spend it on the team. And it's
Speaker 1: a whole another subject.
Speaker 8: Wait, I have a quick question if I'm staying in Boston.
Speaker 8: How early do I need to go? I heard the
Speaker 8: traffic is not great.
Speaker 1: No, I I at one o'clock kickoff from Boston. I'd
Speaker 1: be on the road at nine am, all right?
Speaker 8: Noted?
Speaker 1: Okay, Just just to be safe, you know, if you
Speaker 1: can make it in in an hour to an hour
Speaker 1: and a half, I think you're doing okay. To be
Speaker 1: honest with you, come tailgate in four hours before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the tailgate goes four hours before as well, so you
Speaker 1: should be able to get in after the initial tailgate
Speaker 1: push has gotten into the stadium, so you should be
Speaker 1: okay in that regard.
Speaker 8: Fair enough. I appreciate it, all right.
Speaker 1: Thanks, Brod. I appreciate your time today for sure.
Speaker 9: Thanks.
Speaker 1: You got it. Ben standing at B E, N, S, T, A,
Speaker 1: and D I G. You'll find him on Twitter, so
Speaker 1: that's where you can find me. Covers the Washington commanders
Speaker 1: for the Athletic and the Athletic dot com Patriots fans.
Speaker 1: If you want to see Toyota's best offers, including those
Speaker 1: not seen on TV, go to buy a Toyota dot Com.
Speaker 1: It's Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle
Speaker 1: out of the New England Patriots, Toyota Let's Go Places
Speaker 1: and Bridgestone is the official tire of the New England Patriots,
Speaker 1: and Bridgestone tires are now on sale through November fifteenth
Speaker 1: at all Sullivan Tire locations. Visits sullivantire dot Com for
Speaker 1: a location near you. All Right, So that was a
Speaker 1: little bit of a worl wind opening to the program.
Speaker 1: Eight five five PATS five hundred. Eight five five Pats
Speaker 1: five hundred is the toll free totalphone number. The question
Speaker 1: that I had for you really today is quite simple
Speaker 1: and totally blank. Russell. Hello, Russell Baxter will join us
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the ear to go through week
Speaker 1: nine around the NFL and get his thoughts on all
Speaker 1: things trade, deadline and Patriots and commanders as well. The
Speaker 1: question I was really simple. I got the impression again,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned Evan a little bit earlier. I got
Speaker 1: the impression earlier that you know, listening to local sports radio,
Speaker 1: and sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes that's not necessarily
Speaker 1: a good thing. But I got the impression listening to
Speaker 1: the sports radio that people were really upset over the
Speaker 1: fact that the Patriots stood pat didn't do a thing
Speaker 1: at the trading deadline, and I'm like, I'm not surprised
Speaker 1: at all. I'm like, i would have been act if
Speaker 1: they had made a deal. I'll be honest with you,
Speaker 1: even for Josh Uche because again, you know, as Bill
Speaker 1: has dryly pointed out several times, he takes two teams
Speaker 1: to trade. And unless somebody has a definitive need out there,
Speaker 1: who does New England have that can help somebody else?
Speaker 1: You know, I would have said, you know, initially, well,
Speaker 1: maybe Job's Husche you know, could have been a trade
Speaker 1: candidate for Washington because they just traded away you know,
Speaker 1: their two ends you know, for you know, draft capital
Speaker 1: and return. But at the same time, see, I don't
Speaker 1: think Uce is at every down player. I don't think
Speaker 1: he is the size of the durability. That's just my
Speaker 1: own personal opinion. Now, that doesn't mean that he can't
Speaker 1: find a niche for himself. Doesn't mean that he couldn't
Speaker 1: eventually play a role, you know, into a full time role.
Speaker 1: If he's thrust into that, sometimes that has to happen
Speaker 1: and you don't have any other choices. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: in an ideal set of circumstances, I'm not sure that's
Speaker 1: the case. And then the vitriol that I heard over
Speaker 1: Mac Jones not being traded. I'm like, really, and you
Speaker 1: want to play whom Bailey's happy. I'd almost buy Malik
Speaker 1: Cunningham before I buy that, So I'm just like, I don't.
Speaker 1: I guess either we're letting our emotions get the best
Speaker 1: of us here over being frustrated that the Patriots aren't
Speaker 1: doing anything to correct the issues, or there's just not
Speaker 1: enough smarts smots. There's not enough smots out there. And
Speaker 1: I doubt that very seriously, I really doubt that. I know,
Speaker 1: with this particular audience, you're way smarter than that, you know,
Speaker 1: I just based on the conversations that I've had with
Speaker 1: many of you over the twenty two years we've done
Speaker 1: this show. I mean, I'm just like, come on now, yeah,
Speaker 1: Godfather one or two? Was that too? Right? That was
Speaker 1: Godfather too? Alright? I'm smart? One of the best old
Speaker 1: time lines of the entire movie. I'm smart, Mikey, I'm smart, okay,
Speaker 1: And I know you're smart. I know it, I get it.
Speaker 1: I've talked to many of you who are smart. But
Speaker 1: that was real stupid on the air yesterday. There just was,
Speaker 1: and that disappointed me greatly, it, I mean, and so
Speaker 1: why if you're upset and I'm not calling name, I'm
Speaker 1: speaking in general terms, okay, but if you were upset,
Speaker 1: were you upset for a specific reason or just upset
Speaker 1: because it seemed like the Patriots weren't doing anything to
Speaker 1: correct the issue. And then if you're upset, like I
Speaker 1: additionally was, I admit I'm in that corner. And then
Speaker 1: the more I thought about it, I'm like, well, it
Speaker 1: makes total sense to not do a thing. I had
Speaker 1: to give that some thought. So why would a team
Speaker 1: that's two and six stand pat And I think largely
Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. Number one evaluation as evident.
Speaker 1: I talked about it in the opening of the program today.
Speaker 1: You got to know who's worth keeping, and you may
Speaker 1: not know because it's all it's been about winning games.
Speaker 1: But now that that time is pretty much come and
Speaker 1: gone and left us for at least twenty twenty three, Okay,
Speaker 1: So beyond winning games, we gotta see if guys can play.
Speaker 1: Are there are there NFL caliber players here? And knowing
Speaker 1: that you've got this huge chunk of change on your side,
Speaker 1: you know, heading into a free agency and the salary
Speaker 1: cab increase and everything else that you've got, you probably
Speaker 1: need to do some internal discussion over do we have
Speaker 1: guys that we want to pay to keep? At least
Speaker 1: that's my point of view. And then I think the
Speaker 1: other issue, you know, largely has.
Speaker 3: To be.
Speaker 1: Why aren't they doing anything to improve their situation? And
Speaker 1: I would tell you, well, what would you have them do?
Speaker 1: See that kind of that kind of goes hand in
Speaker 1: hand right there, What would you have them do? I mean,
Speaker 1: they're doing everything they can do. Clearly, they're doing a
Speaker 1: lot of things that you know, we can all agree
Speaker 1: to disagree about, you know, drawing up plays, you know,
Speaker 1: the personnel. Honestly, you got to play who you got,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and your your best players are
Speaker 1: dropping like flies, and you've lost arguably your two best
Speaker 1: defensive players. And and yet I don't think the defense
Speaker 1: was completely I don't think I think the defense actually
Speaker 1: played pretty well last week against Miami. I do. I
Speaker 1: think the defense, with the exception of maybe New Orleans,
Speaker 1: has played pretty well all year long. And so they're
Speaker 1: missing two really good players. But what would you do
Speaker 1: to fix that issue? And I think then you know,
Speaker 1: and We've discussed it on this program many times. So
Speaker 1: a lot of the problems that you know, this Patriot team,
Speaker 1: you know, seems to be having centers around the offense.
Speaker 1: And I think we can all kind of agree on that.
Speaker 1: And it still gets back to the original premise. The
Speaker 1: offensive line has not been good, and the offensive lines
Speaker 1: case of hebe GBI's, you know, giving mac Jones a
Speaker 1: case of he b GB's or happy feed or whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it. That's been a main reason
Speaker 1: why he's been so inaccurate. And while he's thrown off
Speaker 1: his back foot, and why he's rushed his throws, why
Speaker 1: he throws across his body, and my god, if he
Speaker 1: throws to the left one more time, I think we're
Speaker 1: all going to let out a collective screen. I mean
Speaker 1: he even knew it. He said it in the game,
Speaker 1: after the game on Sunday. You know, I knew the
Speaker 1: second I let it go is wrong. Well then why
Speaker 1: did you throw it? Sometimes the logic defies me, So
Speaker 1: we know where the mistakes are being made, but there's
Speaker 1: no corrections. How would this team have done it ten
Speaker 1: or twelve years ago? And my answer to that is
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, he made up for a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 1: He covered up a lot of errors, way more errors,
Speaker 1: I think. And I would also tell you that a
Speaker 1: lot of guys wanted to play with Tomas. I think
Speaker 1: we can all recall, right, and so there was a
Speaker 1: different caliber of player in here. That doesn't mean these
Speaker 1: guys are bad, doesn't mean these guys are no good
Speaker 1: to me. What it means is is these guys don't
Speaker 1: understand fully the Patriot Way, whatever the hell that means.
Speaker 1: They hadn't gotten it, and I'm not sure there's anybody
Speaker 1: around still to teach it. I would say Matt Slater.
Speaker 1: But then hey, when they did the whole you know,
Speaker 1: celebration thing in the locker room, it was Jabril Preppers
Speaker 1: that took it over a couple of weeks ago. You
Speaker 1: probably saw the video here on the website, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't you know how we feel in about it. You know,
Speaker 1: it was just like family on three one two three Family. Okay.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. I think it's great that there's
Speaker 1: and we said this last week on the show, it's
Speaker 1: good that there are new leaders that are stepping up.
Speaker 1: But new leaders bring new styles. New styles bring different
Speaker 1: beliefs and a belief doesn't jibe with what worked in
Speaker 1: the past, it's automatically gonna be well scrutinized. And so
Speaker 1: what we have here is a confluence of a lot
Speaker 1: of different things. And let's not lose sight of the
Speaker 1: fact that while the struggles certainly have begun and largely
Speaker 1: ended with the offensive linecause I think if you had
Speaker 1: an all pro offensive line in front of you, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of throws that Mac doesn't make trying to
Speaker 1: make plays because I think that's where he gets into trouble.
Speaker 1: He tries to do something that he probably is incapable
Speaker 1: of doing, and that's when he gets into trouble. And
Speaker 1: he also has receivers that aren't cable of going and
Speaker 1: get the ball. With all due respect to guys like
Speaker 1: Devonte Parker and Juju Smith Schuster, those guys don't have
Speaker 1: what they once had. Juju is gonna get a chance
Speaker 1: to prove if he's got anything left in the tank
Speaker 1: at all, because Kendrick Bourne has gone for the year now,
Speaker 1: so he's gonna get a shot, you know. And to that,
Speaker 1: I would just say, all right, show us, show us
Speaker 1: what you got. Are you worth keeping around? Are you
Speaker 1: worth you know? You know, are we wrong about you?
Speaker 1: Where you damage goods before you got here? Which is
Speaker 1: what everybody seems to think and seems to believe now
Speaker 1: and right now we have no reason to believe otherwise.
Speaker 1: It was strategically, right now not a good move, you know,
Speaker 1: paying him the money as opposed to say, you know, sixteen.
Speaker 1: So I'm just saying, you know, there's just so many
Speaker 1: different pieces to this puzzle. But the bottom line still
Speaker 1: is that the offensive line has been a work in progress.
Speaker 1: They still haven't had all five of the original starters
Speaker 1: that they that they had had foreseen to be starting.
Speaker 1: They haven't had him on the field yet together. They've
Speaker 1: had bits and pieces here and there the last few weeks.
Speaker 1: But I would also argue that that really hasn't been
Speaker 1: the big problem the last few weeks. You know, when
Speaker 1: you get beat up. When you get beat up, you
Speaker 1: get gun shy, when you get you know, ensconced in
Speaker 1: battle and you absorb blows, you know, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I mean, you get a little gun shy after a while.
Speaker 1: You know, it says nothing about your personal pride. It
Speaker 1: just says that, hey, you're a little aware, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you know where the shots are
Speaker 1: coming from, and so you know, you become a little
Speaker 1: bit more leary. I guess it's probably the proper word
Speaker 1: to take here. And so even if things are improving
Speaker 1: in front of Mac, he still doesn't know where those
Speaker 1: shots are coming from. It's the whole you know, I'm
Speaker 1: seeing ghosts out there. You know that we saw for
Speaker 1: you know, playing the Jets a few years ago, you know,
Speaker 1: with with Sam, I just I you know, I've been
Speaker 1: I really racked my brain trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: this thing has gone off the deep end when nobody,
Speaker 1: I mean and literally nobody saw this coming. And so
Speaker 1: that's why I kind of open it up to you
Speaker 1: at this particular stage of the game. What do you
Speaker 1: want to see?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 1: Number one, if you were upset that they didn't make
Speaker 1: a move, why were you upset that they didn't make
Speaker 1: a move for the trade deadline? And what do you
Speaker 1: want to see from this team over the course of
Speaker 1: the next nine weeks. It's a long way to go,
Speaker 1: and that doesn't count. You know, in two weeks there's
Speaker 1: a bye week, so there's a reevaluation, you know, period
Speaker 1: in here that you know the team was going to
Speaker 1: have to go through. Once they get back from Germany.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get back to the phones and Eldred.
Speaker 1: Eldred's driving around somewhere in North Carolina.
Speaker 9: Hey, Eldred, Hey, mister legend. I'm off today. Good for you, Yes,
Speaker 9: I have them off today, enjoying a nice cold North
Speaker 9: Carolina day.
Speaker 1: Good for you. Well except for the cold day, I know,
Speaker 1: but we've got that here too. It's forty four beer
Speaker 1: forty four to Yeah, cold beer is what I'd rather have,
Speaker 1: But I mean it's a forty four degrees and kind
Speaker 1: of clammy cold here, So I get you that way here.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yes, there is about that way here, about
Speaker 9: forty something degrees. Told a wom up it's about fifty
Speaker 9: and didn't get back down to twenty nine at night.
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, I'm not ready for that.
Speaker 9: Yes, yes, I'm not ready for eighty either, But I
Speaker 9: have to go back to work tomorrow and fight in it. Though.
Speaker 1: All be safe out there, yes, but.
Speaker 9: Me A lot of people mad about about uh Jones.
Speaker 9: I think we should have traded him, sir, because he broke.
Speaker 9: I mean he's broken. I mean he's gun like you said,
Speaker 9: he's gun shy.
Speaker 1: But what do you replace? What are you replace him
Speaker 1: with you gotta be real, what do you replace him?
Speaker 9: I'm gonna be I'm gonna be real with you. I
Speaker 9: ran a scenario by you yesterday. They sort of laugh
Speaker 9: and they gave him one more. But uh, Minnesota is
Speaker 9: in a is in a chase position. If they give
Speaker 9: you two or.
Speaker 1: Three four, take it well if they if they, if
Speaker 1: they would give you two or three. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: solve Minnesota's problem, and it and it doesn't solve New
Speaker 1: England's problem.
Speaker 9: It does solve Newion problem.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. You still don't have anybody playing quarterback.
Speaker 1: You have nobody to play quarterback.
Speaker 9: You ain't let me finishin't let me finish? All right, Okay,
Speaker 9: didn't you? Didn't you go trade for you the Heineken
Speaker 9: or George Kobe Brussett. They banned the ship until to
Speaker 9: our draft choice. Then you go after another quarterback, because
Speaker 9: I don't care if you put Terry mclark, Terry McLaren
Speaker 9: or DK Metcalf or even uh the other guy at
Speaker 9: wide receiver, he ain't gonna hit him because, like you said,
Speaker 9: throwing off his back foot, you're seeing ghosts and he's
Speaker 9: throwing all across the bomb across across his body, you know.
Speaker 9: And of course, and the hyde receivers we got were
Speaker 9: down born. You're down Archer's out right.
Speaker 1: Well we think, yeah, well, okay, you need another receiver.
Speaker 9: Tacon don't seem to be the answer. Okay, you ain't
Speaker 9: played Booty all year, you know, but a couple of times,
Speaker 9: you know, he goes and gets Miami. You need to
Speaker 9: get his feed in a couple of times. I guess
Speaker 9: you think he's still playing college ball. Well you got
Speaker 9: to play them now, Well, you could have try to
Speaker 9: try trade somewhere and got either. I don't care if
Speaker 9: they wanted a two, but Judy and I have tried.
Speaker 1: See, that's a lot of wheeling and dealing. That's I mean, Elder,
Speaker 1: everything you say actually does make sense. I won't deny that,
Speaker 1: but I would tell you that that's a lot of
Speaker 1: wheeling and dealing. You'd make this trade, and then you're
Speaker 1: gonna make this trade, and then you're gonna make this trade.
Speaker 1: And again it takes two willing parties to make deals.
Speaker 1: And if the other party senses that you need to
Speaker 1: make this trade, they're gonna hold out, you know, for
Speaker 1: you know, extra because they know your your butts against
Speaker 1: the wall here, and this is where trades fall apart
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 9: Like I said, it's take two. But if you don't
Speaker 9: okay did but I guarantee you you could have got
Speaker 9: You could have got that quarterback.
Speaker 6: You could have got either.
Speaker 9: It's just just it's just they bitching Jimmy now and
Speaker 9: they're gonna start O'Connell since they got rid of or
Speaker 9: mc daniel because that's on the news too. Give me.
Speaker 1: One of the more interesting trade possibilities that I heard
Speaker 1: was is maybe the Patriot should should consider trading Mac
Speaker 1: Jones for Jimmy Garoppolo. I heard that one, and and
Speaker 1: then I'm kind of like, eh, okay, I've heard worse.
Speaker 1: I mean, Groppolo is broken too, so I don't know
Speaker 1: how much that really solves you. And if you're really
Speaker 1: going to and here's the well, yeah, okay, maybe he
Speaker 1: know it's the system. But Groppolo also makes a hell
Speaker 1: of a lot more money. So why wouldn't you in
Speaker 1: that regard, why wouldn't you just keep mag because he
Speaker 1: doesn't he doesn't cost your checkbook that much more. You
Speaker 1: got him next year for what two point seven something
Speaker 1: like that? Something ridiculous. You know, quarterbacks don't make that.
Speaker 1: That's chicken fee.
Speaker 9: Makes your nose question. What if you keep him next
Speaker 9: year and he's still playing the same way. They's stay
Speaker 9: to get him a good tackle.
Speaker 1: Then you draft a quarterback and they get hair. Then
Speaker 1: you draft a quarterback. You have to listen. I'm not
Speaker 1: if they've got a top five pick this year. If
Speaker 1: they end up in the top five, I would seriously
Speaker 1: have to consider taking a quarterback. And I don't even
Speaker 1: know that Caleb Williams is all that. I'm not convinced
Speaker 1: he's all that. I don't think that guy, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure about it. I don't know if that guy's really
Speaker 1: a team guy. I think he's all about himself, which
Speaker 1: is fine, that's what you want to be. That's great.
Speaker 1: But I'm not convinced that that he's gonna be the savior.
Speaker 9: I'm not either. You know I I heard you keep
Speaker 9: talking about.
Speaker 1: May Drake Maye from North Carolina. Yeah, you ought to
Speaker 1: be able to tell us about him. Do you ever
Speaker 1: watch him play?
Speaker 9: Yeah, Washington player against my team. I'm a Florida State guy,
Speaker 9: and Jordan Travis took that team apart. You know, so
Speaker 9: and then that defense took me apart. So you know,
Speaker 9: I'm wish, but I'd rather have Jordan Travis before I
Speaker 9: have may to be honest with you, but I'm a
Speaker 9: Florida State guy, so I'm gonna keep going Florida State,
Speaker 9: you know, and some of the Clemson players, but the
Speaker 9: quarterback on Clemson, I'm gonna want nothing to do with it.
Speaker 9: But Jordan Travis.
Speaker 1: Yes, the Patriots quarterback is at least two or three
Speaker 1: years away. His name is Archie Manning. Watch it's just great.
Speaker 1: It's it's Archie grim Manning's grandson. It's it's it's the
Speaker 1: it's the nephew of Peyton any.
Speaker 9: Life, if you paid, that's two years away.
Speaker 1: Probably probably at least two years away.
Speaker 9: Yeah, he's two years away. Well maybe maybe not, but
Speaker 9: I never thought about him. But but all the quarterbacks
Speaker 9: coming out this year, some of them the athletic, you know, tall, athletic,
Speaker 9: strong arm. You know, you want somebody to move. Matt
Speaker 9: Cape moved. But but the reason why I say get
Speaker 9: rid of get rid of Matt And like I said,
Speaker 9: he's broken, he's he don't trust system. I don't think
Speaker 9: he trusted players. And like I said, I'm watching too
Speaker 9: many games where I'm seeing guys. I know, I'm seeing
Speaker 9: it on TV. They look wide over him, but he's
Speaker 9: throwing somewhere else with triple coverage, and even the announcers
Speaker 9: say that, and then they go back shoulder start and play.
Speaker 9: If you throw liot So onto him, Barker's open, bolls
Speaker 9: open and end zone for a touchdown or whatever. He's
Speaker 9: not sitting because he's trying to get out of there
Speaker 9: before he gets hit again. And he ain't trusting the system,
Speaker 9: and he ain't trusting nothing else. So I think it
Speaker 9: best to him have a fresh start somewhere else and
Speaker 9: try again.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I don't want to begin it.
Speaker 1: Yeah I don't. I don't really, Uh, I don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the whole fresh start idea, you know, sounds good in theory.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm not sure in practicality whether or not
Speaker 1: that's what the Patriots really need.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 1: The Patriots have to be selfish in this regard. So
Speaker 1: unless you're getting, you know, some kind of value back
Speaker 1: that you know is at least you know, a round
Speaker 1: pick well something. I mean, come on, he was a
Speaker 1: he was the number fifteen pick overall. So I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna give him away for a ham sandwich. I'm just
Speaker 1: not gonna do it.
Speaker 9: No, I wouldn't either. But you ain't gonna get a
Speaker 9: first of them.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 1: Well, listen, if someone offered them, if someone offered them
Speaker 1: a late, a late first round pick, I'd have been
Speaker 1: all over that, like hen on a june bug.
Speaker 6: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 9: It's a late round, yeah, but right, suck it more
Speaker 9: more realistic because they gonna do that unless they really
Speaker 9: need even they close, you know, But and then maybe
Speaker 9: you could start over somewhere else and then fresh start whatever.
Speaker 9: But but I didn't like. I didn't like. I said,
Speaker 9: I didn't like to pick it in the in that
Speaker 9: year or the ones that Bill been doing, except for
Speaker 9: one that's guns outs, And I told you that, then
Speaker 9: be tweet him and Quentin Johnson, I really have Gunzales.
Speaker 9: Then maybe get Quinting, you know, or somebody else stuck
Speaker 9: in the third round. We didn't do that easy. We
Speaker 9: got a bunch of guards and cinemas. When you had
Speaker 9: you had the Kwan Jones sitting there for the fourth
Speaker 9: in the fourth round. Now he started for Cleveland. He
Speaker 9: looking like oh pro already. But you could add him
Speaker 9: on the right side. You're pass him four times.
Speaker 1: Yep, you know. But we're really we're really good revision,
Speaker 1: you know, coaches and and scouts here. I think we
Speaker 1: really are. We like to look back on things and
Speaker 1: say that was a screw up. That was a screw up.
Speaker 1: That was a screw up. And well it's easy to
Speaker 1: say was a screw up after the fact, right.
Speaker 9: No, I was, like I said, had I had my
Speaker 9: own little board.
Speaker 1: I gotta say, No, I gotta see the I gotta
Speaker 1: see it. I gotta see Eldrick's big board. I need
Speaker 1: to see We need to see Eldred's big board. When
Speaker 1: can you make it? When can you bring the truck
Speaker 1: up this way? Make a run so you can come
Speaker 1: in the studio and we get to see your big board.
Speaker 5: I know what I can do.
Speaker 9: I know what I can do. I can make a
Speaker 9: big board and screen screenshot it to your to your
Speaker 9: instam account or faithbook account.
Speaker 1: All right, this is who I will get this through,
Speaker 1: this this and this fair. I'd love to see it, guys.
Speaker 9: Difficult. Quentin Johnson looked a little good the Monday night,
Speaker 9: you know, but he's slowly coming along. And again, like
Speaker 9: I said, I want a gun dollars anyway till my
Speaker 9: boy got hurt. But but let me ask you a question,
Speaker 9: mister legend. Now I don't wanna let you go. Okay,
Speaker 9: let's say we got the top field or six pick
Speaker 9: in the draft. Biel still here. And I don't care
Speaker 9: who who you put down like, well, I don't make
Speaker 9: the person I'm coaching. Now, you make all the decisions.
Speaker 9: Would you trust them to do the right thing? And
Speaker 9: this year draft coming up, it's gonna be heavy in court,
Speaker 9: eat him in quarterback, litpid heavy and white receivers and
Speaker 9: some corner that is yet But I'm just wondered.
Speaker 1: That is a legitimate question. And and I have to
Speaker 1: tell you that my legitimate answer is I don't know,
Speaker 1: because I have a lot I have I have a
Speaker 1: lot of doubt. I absolutely have a lot of doubt.
Speaker 1: And I know where you're going with that, and and
Speaker 1: I and I'm with you on that. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a part of me that's that said. You know what, Listen,
Speaker 1: Josh McDaniels, I think just got fired from the from
Speaker 1: the Raiders for less than you know what you know
Speaker 1: Bill has done with the Patriots, and you know, and
Speaker 1: other coaches have lost their jobs for much less than
Speaker 1: what Bill has done. But Bill has also built up
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, he's built up you know,
Speaker 1: twenty two years of good will and six super Bowl trophies,
Speaker 1: I might add. So, I mean, you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: a part of me that, you know, hey, what have
Speaker 1: you done for is lately it hadn't been very good,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we need to try to do attitude here.
Speaker 1: And then there's another part of me that's saying, all right, Bill,
Speaker 1: here's your chance to, here's your chance to you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: it exact before you do, right off into the sunset.
Speaker 9: Okay, I'd have said this one hundred times. You laughed. Again,
Speaker 9: he didn't do it by it was twelve. It was
Speaker 9: twelve the whole time. Twelve gone twelve won Super Bowl
Speaker 9: without him. And look where we're at now.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know, I listened. You can document.
Speaker 1: I know it's not an argument. You're right.
Speaker 9: And every time, like I said before, All Pro Quarterback League,
Speaker 9: that coach still there, it takes their team five to
Speaker 9: ten years get back to something. Body later sometime later,
Speaker 9: Dallas ain't got back yet.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's NFL facts. There's nothing else to make it up.
Speaker 9: That's the NFL fact. Even the greatest one got fired,
Speaker 9: you know, uh Shuler, Tom Landry Raft, their quarterback gone.
Speaker 1: They all yeah, yeah, they all meant the same thing.
Speaker 9: Yeah, record like this, Yeah, same fate. They can't get
Speaker 9: back to the winning Wait right, it was that guy
Speaker 9: and Brady brought Brady made everybody circle the wagon. That's
Speaker 9: one thing we ain't got in Dongland right now. That
Speaker 9: might make everybody accountable covered.
Speaker 1: The wagon, That's true.
Speaker 9: We don't have that now.
Speaker 1: No, Well, I would tend to agree with that, which
Speaker 1: is why I would be, you know, uh, cautiously optimistic,
Speaker 1: very cautiously optimistic over you know, letting Bill have the
Speaker 1: reins to it all. Eldred. I love your brother and
Speaker 1: thank you. You'd be safe out on the road. Claire
Speaker 1: in the UK, Nice to talk to you, Claire. How
Speaker 1: are you hey?
Speaker 10: Ricky?
Speaker 2: Hen Marie?
Speaker 1: Hey girl? What's happening?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 2: You know, busy, busy, all these things staying up late
Speaker 2: waiting for the trade deadline being hired today, I'm over
Speaker 2: caffeinated and.
Speaker 10: In the sleep.
Speaker 1: So what was your initial impression of doing nothing at
Speaker 1: the trade deadline? Were you that devastated or or what.
Speaker 10: Oh no, I was actually kidding.
Speaker 2: I didn't actually stay wait just for that. I just
Speaker 2: don't speaking today.
Speaker 5: But no, I was.
Speaker 2: I was fine because my concern was that they were
Speaker 2: going to sell off pieces that I've feel and necessary
Speaker 2: to build a core like for the future. Maybe not
Speaker 2: these elite, sparkly players that people sort of you know,
Speaker 2: the playmakers or the weapons the people like to say,
Speaker 2: but the core that you need, the stability, the strengths,
Speaker 2: the backbone of a team, the reliability in the likes
Speaker 2: of Dugger and Petters and Punter Henry Mike Conway knew,
Speaker 2: those sorts of.
Speaker 10: Key players that you still need.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that they didn't sell off those.
Speaker 5: So I was.
Speaker 2: I was completely fine.
Speaker 1: The lack of activity, yeah, and I kind of I
Speaker 1: kind of was too. I mean, that's that's really how
Speaker 1: I looked at it, And more so, you know, from
Speaker 1: a snarky point of view, like, well, who the hell
Speaker 1: are they going to trade? Who wants some of these
Speaker 1: guys the way that they're playing right now, But at
Speaker 1: the same time trying to look at it as a business,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, well, no, because what you really
Speaker 1: need to do is you need to determine what you
Speaker 1: have on down the road and whether or somebody is
Speaker 1: worth keeping. And because you have to have some on
Speaker 1: the team, you can't just you can't just have a
Speaker 1: fire sale. You can't have a garage sale. You can't
Speaker 1: you know, just let everybody go for you know, a
Speaker 1: back of peanuts. You got to be able to have
Speaker 1: somebody that you can build around. Otherwise then you really
Speaker 1: haven't done your job. And I don't think the job
Speaker 1: that they've done has been that egregiously bad. I think
Speaker 1: this is, just, like I said earlier, a confluence of
Speaker 1: a lot of bad stuff that's happened kind of all
Speaker 1: at once. And the fact is is that you know,
Speaker 1: and we really tend to forget this, this was a
Speaker 1: tough schedule for this team to take this year. It's
Speaker 1: just the way that, you know, the dice rolled and
Speaker 1: the way that the schedule rotation came up, and how
Speaker 1: other teams have reformulated themselves. But just you combine the
Speaker 1: fact that you're still on the bounce back going up
Speaker 1: against teams who are extraordinarily good, and you put some
Speaker 1: injury in that, you put a lot of indecision, and
Speaker 1: you put some some lack of development, and yeah, probably
Speaker 1: some poor coaching or poor decision making whatever on there.
Speaker 1: And it's just it's been a little of this and
Speaker 1: a little of that, and it's just become a real
Speaker 1: big mudd bye, is what it's become. And so now
Speaker 1: how do you fix this issue? Well, let's just take
Speaker 1: it one step at a time, because the coach ain't
Speaker 1: going anywhere. Although listen, I guess mister kraf could pull
Speaker 1: Mark Davis and decide to you know, haul off and
Speaker 1: firehim at one am. But I think, you know, we'd
Speaker 1: all be extraordinarily surprised. I'm not surprised that happened, you know,
Speaker 1: with Vegas, because that's just who the Davis family is,
Speaker 1: and it was that way when his dad owned the team.
Speaker 1: So but you know, I don't know if the Patriots
Speaker 1: went two and fourteen, two and fifteen, if they lost
Speaker 1: the rest of them, could that possibly happen? I'd say, maybe, sure,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's gonna happen. What's that?
Speaker 10: I think it depends on the circumstance. If if they are.
Speaker 2: What you said two and fourteen and so, well, it's
Speaker 2: because they have been testing out all their young players
Speaker 2: they've been trying to establish what works in the offense,
Speaker 2: what doesn't work, what works on the defense, what doesn't.
Speaker 5: Work, who works.
Speaker 10: I think if we've got a losing season to that significance,
Speaker 10: but something is going on as in development trial, then
Speaker 10: maybe it's not quoe his head on the chopping block.
Speaker 2: As if it was a case of it appeared that
Speaker 2: they were trying to play their best football and they
Speaker 2: were just shocking. But like you said, I think the
Speaker 2: big key with the offense, I think all that well,
Speaker 2: the team as a whole is they've really looked out
Speaker 2: this season with injury. All the injuries, the significant injuries
Speaker 2: come in sort of at the same time, and the
Speaker 2: O line not being able to have time.
Speaker 10: You've got guys going.
Speaker 2: In and out with injury, so they can't work together
Speaker 2: as a cohesive unit because the one goes out with injury,
Speaker 2: then he comes back, but then another one goes out.
Speaker 2: That's the thing, and it's just you put in that
Speaker 2: kind of crumbling wall in front of a quarterbacks that
Speaker 2: have spent the last three years going through I don't know,
Speaker 2: the washing cycle of ups and downs and differentness and
Speaker 2: different that.
Speaker 5: If you looked at if he stepped back.
Speaker 2: And wasn't a Patriots Sam and looked at that on
Speaker 2: payper and said, this is what happened to the quarterback.
Speaker 10: This is what they did on coaches, this is what.
Speaker 2: Is happening with all the O line, and now these
Speaker 2: are all the injuries that they've got. How would you
Speaker 2: look at that as a list and say, oh, that
Speaker 2: team could be successful regardless of like who the coach isn't.
Speaker 5: Eat by that?
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, it's my point. Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it causes you to stop and think. You know, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm I've been doing a lot of thinking about this
Speaker 1: a lot lately and in trying to sort of pinpoint,
Speaker 1: you know, what's the next best step to take. I mean,
Speaker 1: and granted it's above my pay grade, but I mean,
Speaker 1: for the first thing that that I got to do
Speaker 1: is I got to figure out is there anybody on
Speaker 1: this thing worth keeping? Is there anybody right now?
Speaker 10: I think that's key. I think that's that's why it's
Speaker 10: so frustrating.
Speaker 2: I think there's there's plenty there that could be successful.
Speaker 2: It's just you can't get everything to work together because
Speaker 2: there's there's always something in the way, like an injury
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: Well, that's that certainly, injury is a big part of it.
Speaker 1: You're you're absolutely right, uh, and that sort of stunts
Speaker 1: the growth and the comeback effort and and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So uh, you know, I just you know, you're not
Speaker 1: going to be able to do it all right away
Speaker 1: when you want it done. It's it's going to be
Speaker 1: a long, laborious process, and you know it. And I
Speaker 1: think it, honestly, I think it starts this weekend with Washington.
Speaker 1: I really do. I mean, I'm not so much. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody wants to win. You don't want to lose because
Speaker 1: this is a bottom line business and you have to
Speaker 1: win games and ultimately to be successful. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, I think Bill avoids, you know, any extra
Speaker 1: scrutiny if this team wins number one, but number two
Speaker 1: is just playing better. If you see execution, if you
Speaker 1: see things that you know, frankly should have been taken
Speaker 1: care of back in August but weren't. But if at
Speaker 1: least you're seeing them and you can feel better about
Speaker 1: this team, you know, before all of a sudden done
Speaker 1: this year, then yeah, I think that saves his job.
Speaker 1: And I think this team you know, begins to take
Speaker 1: a big leap forward because they're going to have, you know,
Speaker 1: the monetary wherewithal to be able to do that next
Speaker 1: year with the salary cap and the money that they've
Speaker 1: saved under the cap and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So you know, you can see where there is an
Speaker 1: opportunity to potentially fix it. But you know, everybody wants
Speaker 1: it fixed now right away. Everybody wants mac Jones to
Speaker 1: be the first round draft pick Mac Jones. But the
Speaker 1: problem is is that we can't erase what happened to
Speaker 1: him last year. We can't erase what's happened to him
Speaker 1: this year. He deserves to have a learning curve. It's
Speaker 1: been a little steeper than anybody would like. And then
Speaker 1: he's got others around him that have not performed up
Speaker 1: to their capabilities, either receiver, running back, especially the offensive
Speaker 1: line because those are the guys blocking. And so naturally
Speaker 1: he gets all the vitriol and all the anger and
Speaker 1: all the hate and all the you know, the the
Speaker 1: venom spewed outed him because he's the focal point. And
Speaker 1: yet it's not just him, it's everybody else, you know
Speaker 1: that's included here. And so I think we have to
Speaker 1: try to put at least a little bit more perspective
Speaker 1: on this thing and say, wait a second, let's just
Speaker 1: let's pick this thing apart slowly and take our time
Speaker 1: in getting it right, because you don't want to make
Speaker 1: a change just to make a change. And that was
Speaker 1: what I was most afraid of at the trade deadline.
Speaker 1: The trade then they're going to let somebody go, and
Speaker 1: they let somebody go just because we feel like we
Speaker 1: got to give one away.
Speaker 5: Here we go.
Speaker 1: We gotta sacrifice, you know, a virgin to the volcano
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that you got to do these days.
Speaker 1: And and no, that's not the right way to rebuild
Speaker 1: a team. You've got to remember what this is all
Speaker 1: about and where this team has been, where this organization
Speaker 1: has been. If you're going to use any of your
Speaker 1: track record, you know, as a template as a blueprint
Speaker 1: for building again, maybe this.
Speaker 10: Is the first step.
Speaker 2: The lack of movement at the trades, the lack of
Speaker 2: panic style or whatever. Yeah, the staying fixed and then
Speaker 2: looking internally to like, actually we won't get rid of Joshua.
Speaker 2: I know people were sort of maybe this is the
Speaker 2: first step. Maybe they are finally getting to that especially
Speaker 2: after the win against the Bill, how successful and the
Speaker 2: momentum was.
Speaker 10: We saw this team.
Speaker 2: That's why it was so frustrating to watch the Miami game.
Speaker 2: Was but hang on a second, where's the team that
Speaker 2: we still play against Buffalo? Hang on, where's the momentum
Speaker 2: that we saw against buffow We saw it.
Speaker 9: We all saw it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did see it. And in granted, they didn't
Speaker 1: play great against Buffalo, but it was certainly their best
Speaker 1: game of the year, and it was a step in
Speaker 1: the right direction. And I would tell you that, you know,
Speaker 1: we didn't see that for two reasons last week against Miami,
Speaker 1: largely because a I think Miami is a better team
Speaker 1: number one, at number two, a faulted team, a team
Speaker 1: full of fault is going to take one step forward
Speaker 1: and two steps back until they figure out how to
Speaker 1: correct it. Claire, I appreciate your time, you know, and
Speaker 1: the phone call today. It's always good to talk to you.
Speaker 1: It's just it's not a problem that's going to get
Speaker 1: solved right away. We saw, as you said, what happened
Speaker 1: against Buffalo, and then we saw what happened last week
Speaker 1: at Miami, and you know, I just think Miami is
Speaker 1: a bad matchup Buffalo is a better matchup, and it's
Speaker 1: okay to say that team has you beat in personnel.
Speaker 1: The Patriots need to strive to where they're no longer
Speaker 1: beaten in personnel. But we're not gonna get there tomorrow.
Speaker 1: That's really the bottom line I think of this whole thing.
Speaker 9: A real woman could stop you from drinking.
Speaker 8: That's a big woman.
Speaker 4: It's time to go around the NFL with football guru
Speaker 4: Russell Baxter.
Speaker 1: Now the name is flounder on Patriots playbook. Did you
Speaker 1: dress this flounder for Halloween last night? Russell?
Speaker 5: No, I want it.
Speaker 1: Right, I got it, and you were stuffed. Of course
Speaker 1: you were. My flat of soul is always stuffed. I
Speaker 1: know exactly.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: Uh so, what was the candy of choice in the
Speaker 1: Baxter household?
Speaker 5: Well, you know it's it's funny in my neighborhood. This
Speaker 5: is gonna sound very odd.
Speaker 6: I've it to my cyber.
Speaker 5: Candy in the second. We don't get it. We don't
Speaker 5: get a lot of trick er teeters.
Speaker 1: John, Yeah, yeah, we didn't neither.
Speaker 5: This year. Happened to live in the street that has
Speaker 5: no sidewalks.
Speaker 1: Right, okay, same here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, people don't. It's hard for the kids
Speaker 5: in our neighborhood. They go around the corner and all
Speaker 5: that stuff, which is what we used to do when
Speaker 5: when when we had our young' and but my favorite choice,
Speaker 5: I see, I like to go for healthy candy. And
Speaker 5: I've always insisted that Almond Joy has fiber because the coconuts.
Speaker 1: Spreaded put the lime in the cookie nut. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: will also think that.
Speaker 5: You can't get these are tough to get. No, But
Speaker 5: my mother's favorite favorite candy, and I'm a big thing too,
Speaker 5: is something called gold Boots peanut shoes.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this before.
Speaker 5: Yes, we had for twenty three years and I got
Speaker 5: We've talked about it.
Speaker 1: But those peanut shoes, I've looked. I can't find them anywhere.
Speaker 1: Did they make them anymore?
Speaker 5: Yeah? They did know they still make them. Where was
Speaker 5: you know? I was coming back from the Hall of
Speaker 5: Fame and I stopped up in Pennsylvania to meet up
Speaker 5: with a friend of mine, Stephanie Kotche, who's one of
Speaker 5: the people who helped run football Past and presence seriously
Speaker 5: on Facebook, along with Kelly Morey and Roger Jackson, who
Speaker 5: I used to work with at ESPN.
Speaker 9: The magazine.
Speaker 6: We're doing.
Speaker 5: We're doing very well. We're getting here. Fourteen hundred people,
Speaker 5: a lot of people I know, and so on, and
Speaker 5: I put your stuff on there as well. But anyway,
Speaker 5: she took me to a place and I think it's
Speaker 5: called Grandpa Joe's Candy Store, and it had everything from
Speaker 5: like the last one hundred years. And meanwhile, uh, they
Speaker 5: run Willie Wonka in the chocolate factory on a continuous stream,
Speaker 5: because that's you know, Jack Albertson's character was Grandpa Joe
Speaker 5: might be the name of the store, but I was.
Speaker 5: We were in there for an hour, and you know,
Speaker 5: it's like a blast in the past, but all the
Speaker 5: older candy and different things like that, and so and
Speaker 5: so they were in there, of course they were Do.
Speaker 1: They have necho Do they have nechl wafers in there?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 5: Absolutely yes, John, I'm telling you everything. Everything was in there,
Speaker 5: anything from your past, bubble gums and you know, the
Speaker 5: old packaging.
Speaker 1: And the little wax the little wax coat bottles. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: those two everything, the cinnamon jawbreakers. Ask ask marine about jawbreakers.
Speaker 6: They had dawbreakers.
Speaker 3: They will break your jaw.
Speaker 5: And they will break your jaw. It's exactly right.
Speaker 1: He cracked half a tooth and it went up in
Speaker 1: his skull. That's why he that's why he missed here
Speaker 1: a week or two ago, because he had to, you know,
Speaker 1: go have his tooth extracted, emergency dental surgery off a jawbreaker.
Speaker 1: Can you believe that? Yes, really and truly because he
Speaker 1: tried to bite a jawbreaker. It'd be a tough guy
Speaker 1: for my kids. Yeah, yeah, who was laughing? Then look
Speaker 1: at daddy, big tough marine. Yeah, there we go. All right,
Speaker 1: I can eat again. You come in and hit that
Speaker 1: candy box tonight. I love it. I absolutely love it. Russell.
Speaker 1: As you probably well know, there's still some consternation, you know,
Speaker 1: around these parts because of the Patriots lack of movement
Speaker 1: around the trade deadline. And to me, the tradeline deadline
Speaker 1: is is it's kind of like trick or treat, and
Speaker 1: it's mostly trick except for maybe one, maybe two teams
Speaker 1: if you're fortunate. But I just I don't know that
Speaker 1: there's it's it's there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of risk and very little reward for for most teams
Speaker 1: around the NFL. And so I'm wondering if the better
Speaker 1: part of valor here is just to kind of you know,
Speaker 1: hold hold your hold your hand, you know, to too
Speaker 1: close to your vest, and not make moves simply because
Speaker 1: unless you know specifically the kind of move you need
Speaker 1: to make to put you over the edge and maybe
Speaker 1: give you an advantage if you're making a playoff push,
Speaker 1: why would you make it? Oh?
Speaker 5: I agree, Listen, That's the thing that's so much fun about,
Speaker 5: first off, the game of football. First off is the
Speaker 5: fact that there are so many ways to win and
Speaker 5: score points. Okay, this idea of the notion that I
Speaker 5: keep hearing from certain people is that quote unquote is
Speaker 5: all about the quarterback. It's now unoffensively, it's now that
Speaker 5: those are people who have come up with this too
Speaker 5: push their own narrative because they just want to talk
Speaker 5: about quarterbacks. Now, John, you and I have been watching
Speaker 5: football for a long time, and I've heard you talking
Speaker 5: with Claire. I mean, what the hell is a quarterback
Speaker 5: without an all offensive line?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, what the hell is a quarterback without? This
Speaker 5: is not gandball. Okay. The idea that some people want
Speaker 5: to talk about this game in this day and age
Speaker 5: and still not understand the team concept of it boggles
Speaker 5: my mind, Okay, but I understand why they do it.
Speaker 5: You know, there's ratings and you know what I call laziness,
Speaker 5: and so watch this league. Okay, if that was true,
Speaker 5: why isn't Patrick Mahomes lighting it up this year? Okay?
Speaker 5: Because he's clearly the best quarterback in the league by
Speaker 5: general consensus. Okay. And I'm sure the Denver Blocks so
Speaker 5: joy playing against them last week because they are devoided
Speaker 5: weapons and they do make mistakes, and and the Chiefs,
Speaker 5: like you know, I'll use my Fredama line last week's
Speaker 5: five turnovers against the Denver Broncos, a team they had
Speaker 5: beaten sixteen times in a row. Okay, So it's more
Speaker 5: than just the quarterback. And listen, we got it. If
Speaker 5: you're going to do quarterbacks, got a hell of a
Speaker 5: matchup in Germany this week with the Chiefs and the Dolphins.
Speaker 5: We'll get to that, I'm sure later as well. But
Speaker 5: you have a lot of holes and you couldn't address
Speaker 5: them during the off season. What makes you think that
Speaker 5: in the like a couple of days span, you're going
Speaker 5: to be able to do so? And first off, or
Speaker 5: probably more importantly, you know, I hear a lot of
Speaker 5: people talk about why they didn't do this and they
Speaker 5: didn't do that. First off, you don't know if the
Speaker 5: team didn't try to make a move. Okay, true, true,
Speaker 5: Just because you want somebody doesn't mean the team's going
Speaker 5: to make him available.
Speaker 1: Right, And that's that's what everybody seems to fail to realize.
Speaker 1: I mean when I, you know, hear trade possibilities, well,
Speaker 1: they could have traded this guy for that guy, or
Speaker 1: why don't you get so and so to trade, you know,
Speaker 1: for so and so on, And I'm like, Okay, that's
Speaker 1: all sounds good on paper, but what if the team
Speaker 1: doesn't want to trade number one?
Speaker 5: But let's just say you and I are playing poker, okay,
Speaker 5: and I have an eighth king Queen and a ten
Speaker 5: mm hmm and an eight? Is it all right if
Speaker 5: I look over and you said, listen, do you have
Speaker 5: a jack can spare?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Right, Yeah, that's that's what way trade. Yeah, trades
Speaker 1: are they just I mean, I'm like, you know, and
Speaker 1: and you know, I use my buddy Eldred as an
Speaker 1: example here. I mean, what he had to say made
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, but at the same time, it
Speaker 1: had about three or four layers to it. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't even get through one layer in the trade
Speaker 1: barely much less three or four are if they do this,
Speaker 1: then they go and do this, and then they take
Speaker 1: that and they move it over here and they do this,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, wha, wha, wha wah. Wait a second,
Speaker 1: what are we doing here? We're putting together a five
Speaker 1: hundred word jigsaw puzzles? Fine, repeace jigsaw puzzle? What are
Speaker 1: we doing? That's not what this is. You can't do
Speaker 1: it like that. It doesn't work like that, right, And
Speaker 1: nobody understands that.
Speaker 5: If you add a player, by the way, you're getting
Speaker 5: rid of a player. Yeah, okay, because you have to
Speaker 5: maintain your roster according to the rules, not the rules
Speaker 5: of your best friends, but the rules of the National
Speaker 5: Football League. So listen, we have seen the trade market
Speaker 5: accelerate over the last couple of years. And we're talking
Speaker 5: about the mid season one. A lot of trades, obviously
Speaker 5: we know take place in April, you know, March and April,
Speaker 5: even before things begin. But it's like, and listen, we
Speaker 5: know what the Raiders just did and so on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just gonna ask you about that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and whatever, whatever's deeply going on in that. But
Speaker 5: I will also remind sick and I heard somebody go
Speaker 5: on a rant today. Well it's another Belichick. This cycle
Speaker 5: failed and so on. Listen, Josh McDaniels has made his
Speaker 5: own bed. He's been fired twice as a coach. He
Speaker 5: was supposed to go to the Colts and never did,
Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, but you know
Speaker 5: I did a little math. Okay, if you include the
Speaker 5: playoffs going back to two thousand and three, the Raiders
Speaker 5: are one hundred and four games under five hundred. Now
Speaker 5: is that, Josh McDaniels, where the turnstyle of personnel? It's
Speaker 5: Mark Davis a dysfunctional.
Speaker 1: Or it's Mark Davis and he and he pulled the
Speaker 1: plug before this this regime ever really got a chance
Speaker 1: to get going. And that's that's that's the that's the
Speaker 1: ridiculous part of all of this.
Speaker 5: Well, John, they haven't won a division title since two
Speaker 5: thousand and two. Yeah, okay, they haven't want to play
Speaker 5: off game since two thousand and two. They've only been
Speaker 5: in the playoffs twice since two thousand and three. Okay,
Speaker 5: these are like old Tampa Bay Buccaneers type street. Okay,
Speaker 5: so it's you know, it's not just the recent stuff now,
Speaker 5: and you pile on the stuff that happened with Gruden
Speaker 5: and all that, and even before Mark obviously Al David Okay,
Speaker 5: god bless his soul and in the Pro Football Hall
Speaker 5: of Fame, but he was a different kind of GM
Speaker 5: and owner the last his latter stages of his life
Speaker 5: and so on. I think a lot less patient. So
Speaker 5: this is a team that has really or I should
Speaker 5: say a franchise that has really hit the skids. You know,
Speaker 5: I remember doing something early in this summer and just
Speaker 5: talking about like kind of the old school franchises from
Speaker 5: the seventies, and you know what a magical time that
Speaker 5: was and that you look, I mean, listen, the Dolphins
Speaker 5: are having a hell of a year, John, they ever
Speaker 5: want to play the games? This two SATs.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. You know, you don't even realize that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, So.
Speaker 7: It's funny.
Speaker 5: Here's here's so much. Well, Dallas has the NFC Championship
Speaker 5: Game and won the Super Bowl since nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 5: So the forty nine ers haven't won the Super Bowl
Speaker 5: since nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 1: Perspective, My friend, we had to put things in perspective.
Speaker 5: Listen, think, but think about this. The Dolphins are now
Speaker 5: on the fiftieth university of their lacks super Bowl tighter.
Speaker 1: Right correct.
Speaker 5: The Raiders are in the fortieth. That's nineteen seventy three
Speaker 5: for the Dolphins in nineteen eighty three for the Raiders.
Speaker 1: Raiders.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, So that's why you've got to appreciate what
Speaker 5: some of these franchises have been able to do. And listen,
Speaker 5: the Steelers were terrible for about forty years before they
Speaker 5: turned the corner. The Patriots were, they weren't so good,
Speaker 5: and then they've had their run as well. It is hard.
Speaker 5: I mean, this league is one hundred and four years old.
Speaker 5: We have still only had one franchise win three titles
Speaker 5: in a row. And the Packers did it before there
Speaker 5: was a postseason, and the Packers did it in the
Speaker 5: mid sixties. No teams won more than three NFL last
Speaker 5: Super Bowl titles in a row. Okay, no one's ever
Speaker 5: won three in a row during the Super Bowl era, right. So,
Speaker 5: and now we have free agency. I think that makes
Speaker 5: them even harder. There's more parody, there's more teams that
Speaker 5: are available to jump up. There's more teams team to
Speaker 5: go from to last to first. I mean, how bad
Speaker 5: were the the Texans the last couple of years. They
Speaker 5: win this week, they've already surpassed last seas windows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, half a year still ago, right exactly. Let's
Speaker 1: let's uh, you know, let's take a quick look down
Speaker 1: to the schedule this week. And I guess we could
Speaker 1: start with the game that's certainly you know, going to
Speaker 1: be in Germany because the Patriots will be there next
Speaker 1: week against the Colts. But you know, when you get
Speaker 1: the Dolphins and the Chiefs, you're probably talking about not
Speaker 1: just two of the best of the AFC and a
Speaker 1: potential you know, AFC kingpin surviving this one. You may
Speaker 1: be talking about two of the best teams in the
Speaker 1: NFL going at each other at the mid season point.
Speaker 5: Oh no, no question. But it's funny every team that
Speaker 5: leads their division in the AFC right now, don is
Speaker 5: six and two Jacksonville, Baltimore, Miami and Kansas City, which
Speaker 5: I is kind of interesting. And of course Miami and
Speaker 5: Kansas City. You've got the Tyreek Hill story, yep, who
Speaker 5: last week reached a thousand yards receiving in eight games, yep,
Speaker 5: and I know the other, but it's reminded me of
Speaker 5: West Chandler during the strike in eighty two when he
Speaker 5: had one thousand and thirty two yards. But Tyreek Hill
Speaker 5: already has more touchdown catches than he did all of
Speaker 5: Black last year, and last year he had a career
Speaker 5: year in terms of catches and receptions. You know, we
Speaker 5: might start here in two because there's been no at
Speaker 5: least in my opinion, there's been no quarterbacks this year
Speaker 5: jump off the starts as far as performance, they're really happening.
Speaker 5: I've seen guys with a lot of yards, okay, a
Speaker 5: love touch up, and I also see quarterbacks with their shirt.
Speaker 5: I mean, Lamar Jackson's had a great year running and passing,
Speaker 5: but he's started over with bullies. Now that's a product
Speaker 5: of what they do. And people focus on his lack
Speaker 5: of interceptions, but he's fumbled the ball away five times.
Speaker 5: So you've seen Jalen Hurts who's got a boatload more
Speaker 5: turnovers and he did all last season. So why couldn't
Speaker 5: we see somebody like and Prishian mccaffery's they banged up
Speaker 5: right now. But Tyreek Hill and A. J. Brown. You know,
Speaker 5: I'm not saying they're having Cooper Cup seasons from two
Speaker 5: years ago, but I don't think they're that far along. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so this could be a year we see something. And
Speaker 5: of course we've never seen a wide receiver of the MVP.
Speaker 5: So we've seen running backs, we've seen quarterbacks. We've even
Speaker 5: seen defensive players, right, like Allan Page in seventy one
Speaker 5: and Lawrence Taylor in eighty six. So a different kind
Speaker 5: of year. But hyree kill against his old team, that's
Speaker 5: gonna be pretty fascinating. Here, here's something that blows my mind.
Speaker 5: The Dolphins and the and listen, I know that the
Speaker 5: Broncos game against the Dolphins accelerate system middle. Ye, well,
Speaker 5: who would have thought that eight games into the season
Speaker 5: that the Miami Dolphins would have eighty four more points
Speaker 5: than the Chiefs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't have envisioned that. No, sure, that's that's
Speaker 1: a lot points.
Speaker 5: For game more. Yeah, and Kansasity's got a little turnover
Speaker 5: bug going as well. And I'm not here the bashing
Speaker 5: because they're they're winning a different way. They're better defensively
Speaker 5: than they have been, even though they're run defense low exposed, right, lastly,
Speaker 5: So this is gonna be very interesting because now you've
Speaker 5: got to start looking at these games with these teams
Speaker 5: obviously trying to win their division, but these head to
Speaker 5: heads among the leaders, because when we get down to it,
Speaker 5: you know who's going to be, say they tie, where's
Speaker 5: the game is going to be if they meet each
Speaker 5: other in the play right, even though there's another matchup
Speaker 5: in the AFC where they're the teams in first place
Speaker 5: right now? The Buffalo huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just going to ask you about that
Speaker 1: one Buffalo and Cincinnati and the other game that I
Speaker 1: think certainly is worth mentioning here we have a minute
Speaker 1: or two left, is Dallas playing at Philadelphia. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you know that's certainly gonna uh And it could very
Speaker 1: well be that the NFC East is also one of
Speaker 1: the stronger divisions that has been from top to bottom,
Speaker 1: you know, throughout the course of this this season.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna I'm gonna throw Washington in there as well,
Speaker 1: because the Patriots get the Commanders this weekend. But I
Speaker 1: just you know, those two games, you know, are are
Speaker 1: bringing out I think that the cream of the crop,
Speaker 1: at least at the midway point in the season.
Speaker 5: Oh, I think it's a really dynamite plate this week.
Speaker 6: I really do.
Speaker 5: Because of that, what you get star power wise in
Speaker 5: terms of the Germany game and then the Sunday night
Speaker 5: game or actually Sunday afternoon late game, which is the
Speaker 5: Dallas Philly game, and of course you know Buffalo and Cincinnati.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's huge, uh, and not in divisional games,
Speaker 5: but also within the conference game like the Miami, Kansas
Speaker 5: City is Jacksonville this week, Detroit's off. They're both leading
Speaker 5: their divisions and so on. But yeah, I think it's
Speaker 5: it's very interesting, and I'll be I'll be I can't
Speaker 5: believe I'm saying this. I'll be curious to see if
Speaker 5: Kansas City can keep paint with Miami.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 5: My mean, it's like, you know, it's like the attract team.
Speaker 5: It really is. You know. You look at last week
Speaker 5: against the Patriots, both Wadal and Hill had over one
Speaker 5: hundred yards receiving to his head a little turnover bug
Speaker 5: himself the last couple of weeks. Okay, and I get
Speaker 5: all that, but this will be a very very interesting
Speaker 5: matchup for a lot of different reasons. And I'm certainly
Speaker 5: not to dismiss anyone at all, but Kansas City. They
Speaker 5: want a different way this year. They don't look comfortably
Speaker 5: or comfortable offensively, and that's that I think is somewhat
Speaker 5: troubling for them, at least right now. But my goodness,
Speaker 5: we still have some teams still have ten games to play,
Speaker 5: so as we have seen, unless we still have Jacksonville.
Speaker 5: Last year they were four and eight and caught fire, okay,
Speaker 5: and then when won a playoff game. So you never listen.
Speaker 5: If you need any proof about playing right well with
Speaker 5: the right time, just look at the World Series this year. Yeah,
Speaker 5: two years ago, both those teams lost one hundred games.
Speaker 1: Which is remarkable.
Speaker 5: And yeah, Rangers their first ever World Series. Yep, Okay,
Speaker 5: I'm done with baseball.
Speaker 9: That's all I know.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you slipped in my Texas Rangers there.
Speaker 1: That's good. I appreciate that. Appreciate you, Russell, Thank you,
Speaker 1: my friend. As always, we'll try to figure this out again.
Speaker 1: Next week, Patriots get a little trip to Deutsche Land
Speaker 1: and see if they can't, you know, find a little
Speaker 1: momentum this weekend against the Commanders and next week.
Speaker 5: I wanted to drop some proud Blooper references.
Speaker 1: Okay, we could you know, maybe we could do some
Speaker 1: beer references to I don't know, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: Thanks buddy.
Speaker 5: And by the way, it's Frankenstein, not Franklin Frankenstein.
Speaker 1: Okay, Frankenstein. I got it, Frankenstein. It is Russell Baxter
Speaker 1: at backs foot Ball Guru on Twitter. H Patty and Aguwam.
Speaker 1: You're kind enough to hang in there, buddy. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give you the last word here in the playbook today.
Speaker 6: No problem, John.
Speaker 11: Unfortunately, I think I got the crappy line because I
Speaker 11: hear feedback.
Speaker 6: In the background.
Speaker 1: Oh no, but that's all right.
Speaker 6: I'll try and get my point across really quickly.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 11: So I was a little perturbed that they didn't make
Speaker 11: a move, but you know, it didn't really bother me
Speaker 11: all that bad because I think I think a lot
Speaker 11: of like the negativity that you're hearing is all cannon
Speaker 11: podder from fans that have never experienced.
Speaker 6: Losing with the scheme.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 11: And you know what, I was an original fandwagon around
Speaker 11: the very first Super Bowl run against the Bears.
Speaker 6: I've been around for a while then.
Speaker 11: I've been through the highest of the highs and the
Speaker 11: lowest of the lows. One thing that I brought up
Speaker 11: that Evan sort of took my point yesterday and built
Speaker 11: upon it. It was better at articulated it than I did,
Speaker 11: was I would have liked to have seen to make
Speaker 11: a move for a guy like Jerry Judy, so they
Speaker 11: would have at least like an offensive season place and
Speaker 11: going forward. I mean, I think with Claire and what
Speaker 11: you were saying, I mean, if if you're not picking
Speaker 11: high enough to get one of these franchise styles left
Speaker 11: tackles like Joe Walter Siscan who, then as much as
Speaker 11: it pains me to say this, maybe you have to
Speaker 11: sign Trent Brown and take a guy like j C.
Speaker 11: Latham and give back another year because I mean, if
Speaker 11: if he sucks again next year, you're gonna be You're
Speaker 11: not going to pick up people. You're probably not going
Speaker 11: to pick up a six year option anyway, but you're
Speaker 11: gonna be in the quarterback carouself. And I would rather
Speaker 11: see them try and build up the offense over the
Speaker 11: next couple of years rather than straight away future assets
Speaker 11: to pick a quarterback like oh my lord, Caleb Williams,
Speaker 11: who I'm not really sold on either. Yeah, if you
Speaker 11: get one of the top two picks. Or Drake May
Speaker 11: who looks like he. I mean, he's got the physical traits.
Speaker 11: You know, he's big, he's got the big arm. But
Speaker 11: when I watched my I kind of seek and he
Speaker 11: kind of looks like too.
Speaker 6: And he plays for the same program, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, Patty, I mean I I you know,
Speaker 1: I knew that you're usually capable of really sound you know,
Speaker 1: reasoning and judgment like this, But I could not have
Speaker 1: picked you to come out at a better time in
Speaker 1: that regard because it sounded reasonable.
Speaker 9: Yeah, And.
Speaker 11: I'm sorry part of me. I've been I've been sick.
Speaker 11: I've been fighting like laryngitis.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry pneumonia.
Speaker 11: And I got to say something in Matt, Matt, do
Speaker 11: you want to prove to your kids that you're a
Speaker 11: tough guy? You gotta do what we just back in
Speaker 11: the day and just like beat up somebody in front
Speaker 11: of him, you know.
Speaker 1: Backfire, I beat up my son in front of my daughter.
Speaker 1: How can he? How can he beat up his kids? Though?
Speaker 1: And he can't even beat up a job breaker.
Speaker 11: Well, we're Marie, you know, no karate, but we know crazy,
Speaker 11: Like dam Brown said, sometimes sometimes you know, nine times
Speaker 11: out of ten.
Speaker 6: Karate wins out, so it could backfire too.
Speaker 11: So you don't want to go you know, you don't
Speaker 11: want to go crazy.
Speaker 1: I pulled a little mcmap on them. I like it.
Speaker 1: I like it a lot. Thanks Patty. Good to hear
Speaker 1: from you, buddy, Appreciate you. All right, that's going to
Speaker 1: wrap it up for this edition of the program. Patriots fans,
Speaker 1: if you want to see Toyota's best offers, including those
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Speaker 1: of the New England Patriots. Toyota Let's go places and
Speaker 1: this November, every Friday is like Black Friday at Bob's
Speaker 1: Discount Furniture. That means you get surprising unlocks every Friday
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Speaker 1: Patriot our thanks to Ben Vollen to the Boston Globe,
Speaker 1: Ben standing from the Athletic who covers the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 1: I guess if you took the under you one. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna mess it up now. Thanks to Evian Bazaar
Speaker 1: Russell Baxter Marine. Good job out of you. All right,
Speaker 1: same patch time, same patch channel. Next week. Everybody's gonna
Speaker 1: be in Germany but me, I'm gonna be here. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna hold down the fort. Talk to you next Wednesday.
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