1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: of the host and guests and are intended for educational 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color, 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: enjoy the show. 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. I hope all 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: is cute ishagara Ebina here and today I am sitting 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: down with an incredible storyteller and fer who spent thirteen 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: years bringing Black Barbie a documentary to life. 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 3: Now. 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: This powerful film not only celebrates the impact of Black Barbie, 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: but also unpacks deeper conversations around representation, identity, and beauty standards. 20 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 2: My guests work has been recognized in a major way, 21 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: earning her an NAACP Award. For Outstanding Documentary, and today 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: she's here to share her journey with us. We'll dive 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: into what inspired this film, the legacy of her aunt, Beulah, 24 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: who worked at Mattel for forty years, and the challenges 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: of bringing the story to the screen, and how Black 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: Barbie continues to shape the way we see ourselves. So 27 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 2: get ready, y'all, because the history of Black Barbie starts now. 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: All write to my guests, thank you so much for 29 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: being on a show. How you doing, How you feeling? 30 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: I'm doing great? 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Now, before we dive in, I already told you 32 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: this off the air, but I want to tell you 33 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: on the air. I want to give you your flowers 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: for two things. First Off, congratulations your beautiful wedding. 35 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 3: Thank you appreciated elected all the flowers there. 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and major congratulations on winning an NAACP Award for 37 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: our Standing Documentary. How did that feel? 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: Surreal? Yeah, one hundred percent surreal because when we got 39 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 3: to the table at the awards ceremony, we were like 40 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 3: in the back and so for us we were like, oh, 41 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 3: that's indicative of maybe not winning, right, So we were like, okay, 42 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 3: get a little bit more champagne. We gonna chill and 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: eat and you know, have a good time. So when you. 44 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: Know they already everything is a sign, you know, that's it. 45 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 3: That's it. We're like, we're good. It was nice to 46 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 3: be nominated, and you know, we're gonna try to see 47 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: who we can see and have a good time tonight 48 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 3: at the show, at the ceremony, and so then when 49 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: they announced it, we were both just sitting there, like, 50 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 3: me and Aliyah the producer, were sitting there like and 51 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: then she starts like screaming, you know, and then Shondaland 52 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: are Alison and Ebane from Shondaland were there and they 53 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: were like, get up and go, and we were like, 54 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: oh yeah, right right yeah, So it was a moment. 55 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: You know, I don't think I'll ever forget. 56 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: And it took you thirteen years to complete this documentary, right. 57 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it took thirteen years for Black Barbie the documentary 58 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 3: to get to Netflix and via Shondaland. You know, so 59 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: I think that's just a story and never giving up. 60 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, were there moments when you want to like walk 61 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: away from it, from everything? 62 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I mean the nose just kept coming, 63 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: the you know, the thoughts about the creative kept coming, 64 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: and I remember, you know, having a conversation with someone 65 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 3: and they were not seeing how the puppet animation with 66 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 3: dolls and playing with dolls and the kids, how it 67 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: could all come together. And I remember just being like, well, 68 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 3: you lack imagination facts. 69 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: And the funny thing about that is that goes viral 70 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: on Instagram? What goes viral the Barbie dolls? Like re 71 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: enacting certain movie scenes and stuff. 72 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, that's it. It's definitely something that is 73 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 3: already and has been playing out in the zeitgeist before 74 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 3: our film, before the Barbie film. People are out here 75 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: doing animation that are that's fun and amazing, you know, 76 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, they're they're out there 77 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 3: doing that. So for me, it just made sense to 78 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: do it in the film, to play with the dolls, 79 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 3: playing with Barbies, you know, I got to do that 80 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 3: in the film. 81 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: Which we'll touch on later because you don't even like 82 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: Barbie dolls growing up, No, you can miss me with 83 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: all of that. 84 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: I was not checking for it. 85 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: Right, How has this how has created a documentary changed 86 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: the way you viewed storytelling? 87 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 3: You know what? I you, I just have to say kudos, 88 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 3: you know, I This was my first documentary. I'm primarily 89 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 3: a writer director, so I'm in the scripted world of things, 90 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 3: and so documentary is hard. 91 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: I been hearing it a lot, a lot lately. Why 92 00:05:58,839 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: is it so hard? 93 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 3: I mean, there's levels to it, right, you know, there's 94 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: levels to it. In the way of one, it's hard 95 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: to you know, get the financing you need if you're 96 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 3: an independent person, you spend a lot of you know, 97 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: it was a lot of unpaid time thirteen years, you know, yes, 98 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: just believing in the story, believing in the vision of 99 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 3: the story, and then having people who believe in me 100 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 3: and this vision of the story and the story itself, 101 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: you know, helping me to keep going, like you know, 102 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: it was bigger than me. And I felt like, you know, 103 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 3: in a world if I didn't continue to press for this, 104 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: that I'd be letting a lot of people down, from 105 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 3: my family to you know, my Aunt May's story, to 106 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 3: Kitty Stacy's. The more I kind of pushed it out 107 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 3: there and the responses I was getting in those rooms 108 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 3: just it made it even more obvious that the story 109 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: needed to be told, it needed to happen. So, you know, 110 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: it's challenging on that end. Of the spectrum of you know, 111 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: trying to get some form of financing to put some 112 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 3: production value into the project. You know, have it looked like, 113 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: you know, you did. You're trying to do something. You 114 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: got a visual something going on. It is visual storytelling, 115 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: you know, films in and of itself, and so you know, 116 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 3: you have that, and then distribution was a little challenging 117 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 3: as well. And then just story. You don't have a script, right, 118 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: and so you're you're hoping that you're asking the right questions, 119 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 3: you know, and you can't put words in people's mouth. 120 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 3: At least that's not how I operate as a documentary director. 121 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 3: You know. I like for it to be conversational. I 122 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 3: like for you know, people to just talk to me. 123 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 3: Let's let's have a conversation. And I'm listening and I 124 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 3: have questions. But sometimes what they're telling me, as I 125 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 3: hear their story, as I'm actively listening to what they're 126 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: telling me, that's more compelling than the questions that I 127 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: have here, you know, so I'm like, let's deep dive 128 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 3: talk more about that. I wasn't expecting that, you know, 129 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 3: so actually trying to create and so it's one of 130 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 3: those things. Also where story wise, beginning, middle end, what's 131 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 3: you know, the art, what's the plot, what's and how 132 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 3: do you get this information out and an entertaining way 133 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 3: hopefully you know? Yeah, So it was a challenge. 134 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: One thing I will say that I really enjoy about 135 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 2: the documentary is I think you did a really good 136 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: job with navigating between the critical and the celebratory moments 137 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: of Black Barbie. Because there were times where I would say, 138 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: I am Barbie, like come on now, like y'all treat 139 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: Black Barbie like how y'all would treat black people in 140 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: life like before she became a part of the universe. 141 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: So was that challenging for you to be able to 142 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 2: like showcase both narratives. 143 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: I mean, it was always something that I was very 144 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: you know, talking with my collaborators too. We all had 145 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 3: this understanding of it being a balance, right, you know, 146 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: the thematically when we're talking about representation, right, you know, identity, 147 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 3: seeing yourself in the world and what is communicated back 148 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 3: to us, no matter how affirmed we are, you know, 149 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: having this understanding of balancing thematically how you know, dark 150 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: if we really kind of looked at it, what story 151 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: we would be telling could be really dark? And bleak 152 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 3: about what it means to not see yourself, you know, 153 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: And we knew it was Barbie, and so on one hand, 154 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 3: we're anticipating people want to walk in and see something fluffy, 155 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: you know, fluffy, cute, you know. And on the other hand, 156 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: we knew we needed to talk about these these these 157 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 3: things that matter to these themes that matter to black 158 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: women and black girls. And so it's like, how do 159 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 3: we get this balance of darkness and light knowing that, 160 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: you know, And one of the approaches we just took 161 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 3: to it was thinking in terms of at least for me, 162 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 3: I thought of it as like it's life. 163 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah. 164 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: It's life, like bad things happen, and you know, we 165 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 3: don't have to dwell in that space. We can acknowledge that. 166 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 3: Let be a witness as our you know, subject testifies 167 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:44,599 Speaker 3: and you know, and then move on to the celebration. 168 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. It was a scene that you did 169 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 2: where I think a book came out or something, and 170 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 2: it was like showcasing all the different things that happened 171 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: within Barbie and nowhere in the book they mentioned black Barbie. 172 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: I'm like, that was a moment. 173 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 3: It was a moment I think we were all really surprised. 174 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 3: You know, I think it's something and it just kind 175 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 3: of speaks to being in a place where you're you know, 176 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: constantly told that you know, black Barbie matters to Mattel, 177 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: Black Barbie matters in general, the legacy of that, of 178 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: how Black Barbie came to be, the women that you know, 179 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 3: we're able to make that happen, all of that matters. 180 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 3: But then in something so you know, kind of crucial 181 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: to the history of Mattel on that time line in 182 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 3: the book, we see that Black Barbie's nowhere to be found. 183 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: And it's these competing narratives where if it is a 184 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 3: legacy that you acknowledge and respect, and if it is 185 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 3: important exactly if it is important, then why is she missing? 186 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: Why is she not included? Why is she not seen 187 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 3: in the Barbie movie? Why isn't she not you know, 188 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 3: her presence is And so for me, it's competing. It's 189 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: you're saying one thing, but you're showing me another. 190 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: Did you get any resistance from Mattel elementary. 191 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 3: No, not at all. You know, yeah, it's not a 192 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 3: Mattel film, But. 193 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 2: I want to eat Barbie dolls now, yeah, by. 194 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't even something we wanted to do 195 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 3: in the sense of I was just like, this film 196 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 3: is not about Mattel. They just so happened to be 197 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 3: the big corporation behind this particular doll, you know, but 198 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: it is, you know, just kind of shedding the light 199 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 3: on the importance of play. Yeah, and what's at stake 200 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: for black women and black girls, you know, when they're 201 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 3: not really thought of in an intentional, meaningful way when 202 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 3: it comes to the content and the toys that they 203 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 3: play with. While at the same time celebrating my aunt 204 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: view La May, Kitty Black Perkins, and Stacey McBride Derby. 205 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so growing up, what was it about Barbie that 206 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: didn't resonate with you because you hated Barbie dolls or 207 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: just dolls in general. 208 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: I hated dolls in general. No, So it's funny because 209 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 3: I just hated dolls in general. To think in terms 210 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 3: of as a little girl, I didn't have the language 211 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 3: that I do now to kind of really put into 212 00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 3: wards what it felt like as a little girl and 213 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: not really gravitating towards the things that they were telling 214 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 3: me I should be gravitating towards as a little girl. 215 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: If that makes sense I hate the color pink, like 216 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: I was just like, I don't. I love the color blue, 217 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 3: like blue, that's my favorite color, nice like deep cyan, 218 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: like royal blue, lake ooh that was I think, yeah exactly, 219 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: But pink, I'm kind of like, no, you can. I 220 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 3: don't know pink. And dolls were like that as well. 221 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 3: It was like, Okay, I have a baby doll to 222 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 3: change the diapers, to feed to cuck cuck coo, nurture, nurture, 223 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 3: and then the fashion doll came along. And I don't 224 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: really consider myself in any way, shape or form, any 225 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: kind of like fashion forward person, and so for me, 226 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: it felt very vapid, and I was like, I don't care. 227 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 3: As long as I'm comfortable, I don't care. And so 228 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: I wasn't looking into like trying to dress the doll 229 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 3: or marry the doll to ken or you know that 230 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 3: type of imagination that you know. As I made the 231 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 3: documentary talking to people, it was really, you know, interesting 232 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 3: to see how they actually played with their dolls and 233 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 3: imagining all kinds of different things outside of yeah, yeah, 234 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 3: outside of the things that I felt the dolls were 235 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 3: trying to communicate to me that I kind of rejected 236 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: as a girl. So it was just kind of rejecting 237 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 3: all of these things that I was told meant you know, 238 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: you were a little girl, and really trying to step 239 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 3: into who I was and the things that I liked 240 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 3: as a girl. 241 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: You know, you know, it's a good point because I 242 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 2: have a lot of friends who didn't like Barbie, and 243 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: one of the main reason why they didn't like Barbie 244 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: is because they felt like she didn't resonate with their 245 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 2: own experiences or I didn'ty. So I think that what 246 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: you're saying is very valid because a lot of girls 247 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 2: didn't see themselves in Barbie. 248 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I didn't, and I just you know, 249 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 3: I'd rather be reading a book. Yeah. I can draw, 250 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 3: so I did a lot of drawing. I write, So 251 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 3: I did a lot of writing, you know, poems and lyrics, 252 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 3: and you know, I was a creative person. I like 253 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 3: to play outside, riding bikes and skateboards and you know, 254 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: playing remote control cars or transformers, you know, trivia games. 255 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: Like I was interactive, yes. 256 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 3: And I'm still that person. Like I like activities. I like, 257 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 3: you know, invite me to dinner, to sit down with 258 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 3: a bunch of people and I'm like, oh, can't be 259 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 3: go bowling? Can we? 260 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 2: Like this is fun? 261 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: Let's do something active that we can kind of eat 262 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 3: around mingle talk. You know. Our rehearsal dinner for the 263 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: wedding was axe thrawing. You know, we like ordered some pizzas. 264 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 3: It was like bring your own food. So we ordered 265 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 3: some pizzas, some chicken wyomi. Yeah, and they had alcohol 266 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 3: so and or no they didn't actually, so you can 267 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 3: bring your own alcohol. They had like beer, so be 268 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: while alcohol, order some beer and throw some axes. They 269 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 3: let us some knives and you know what I was like, yes, yea, yeah, 270 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 3: like I was thriving in that environment. You know, So 271 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 3: I really do. I like to play games. I like activities. 272 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 3: I like puzzles stuff like that. And for me, it 273 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 3: wasn't necessarily dolls weren't a puzzle. They weren't active, you know, 274 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 3: I didn't. What was really funny was that I did 275 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: get like a kitchen. 276 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 2: Like a Barbie. 277 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it wasn't Barbie. It was just like a 278 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 3: kitchen set, you know, where you had all these play 279 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 3: foods like pizza. 280 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: And hamburgers and stuff. 281 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, like that you could cook and it came with 282 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: like pots and pans and you had stoves and we 283 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 3: would play drive through window with that. And I didn't 284 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 3: mind that because it felt like culinary even though it 285 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 3: was a role that it felt like a little girl 286 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 3: should be in. Like as you grow up to be 287 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,479 Speaker 3: a woman, you're gonna be into fashion. You're gonna like 288 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 3: have babies to nurture, and you're gonna have to cook 289 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 3: for the baby. Like there was something very different, I 290 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: guess for me for that toy because it did feel 291 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 3: active and put the latics on there. 292 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: Tomatoes, Yeah, so active. 293 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 3: And I like to cook As an adult person, I 294 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 3: enjoy cooking and coming up with my own recipes and 295 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 3: baking and you know, making elaborate dinners and kind of 296 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 3: like hosting people. I do enjoy that. So that was 297 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 3: a toy that I did gravitate towards that felt kind 298 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: of like domesticating women. 299 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: You know. 300 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: So did you get the inspiration and to create Black 301 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 2: Barbie when you move into your Beulah house. 302 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 3: That's exactly it. Like that's one of the themes you 303 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 3: know that we kind of shore up just by having 304 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 3: that conversation is kind of like intergenerational conversation because you know, 305 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 3: my great aunt if you will. You know, she's of 306 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 3: a certain age and much older than myself. And so 307 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 3: just sitting down to talk. 308 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: To her, yeah, and I felt like that was so cool. 309 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 3: It was really cool to think in terms of hearing 310 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 3: her talk about like there's something about lived history, yes, 311 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 3: and it's just details that you won't really find, like 312 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 3: details and perspectives that you really won't find in you know, 313 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 3: your history books, right exactly. They it's you know, And 314 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 3: so it was really fascinating to me to hear her 315 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 3: talk about Barbie through this lens, this you know, octogenarian 316 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: black woman's lens, you know, and who Barbie was to 317 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: her and what it would mean for you know, the 318 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 3: company Mattel to make an actual black Barbie and to 319 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: have an understanding of what it meant to then see 320 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 3: them not necessarily make a black Barbie, but a friend 321 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 3: of Barbie that was black. 322 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: Right, and she wasn't technically a Barbie. 323 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 3: Right, right. And so to hear you know what that 324 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 3: meant firsthand and into crazy and that experience, you know, 325 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 3: I was just sitting there listening to her being like 326 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 3: you were on that first Barbie line. I mean, that 327 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 3: was like one of the first haadcock moments like huh, 328 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 3: that's wild what And then she's like, we were like, 329 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 3: why not make a black barbie? Why not make a 330 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 3: barbie that looks like me? And that kind of is 331 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 3: like the light bulb moment for me where I'm like, 332 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 3: you know, I'm a filmmaker. 333 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 2: Right, she's baby. 334 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 3: I don't know what that means. Right. And So through 335 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 3: that conversation, you know, I got the lived history from 336 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 3: her perspective of you know, the doll that literally put 337 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: Mattel on the map. Yeah, as a toy company, and 338 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 3: you know, she introduced me to this world of like 339 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 3: and I say, you know, I introduced her to my 340 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 3: world of filmmaking. 341 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: You know, I really want to give your aunt her flowers, 342 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: because not only did she play a pivotal role in 343 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 2: representation and toys, but also in the workplace, Like she 344 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 2: really laid the groundwork, groundwork for Kitty and every other 345 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: black person that came afterwards. So like, how did that 346 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: How did your unexperience with them Mattel shape your understand 347 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 2: that representation. 348 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 3: You know, that's the other thing I think about intergenerational 349 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 3: conversations is having an understand you really get an idea 350 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:54,479 Speaker 3: for the mindset, right, and how you're different, Like you 351 00:23:54,600 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 3: can see how sometimes your journey intersects and can be 352 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 3: kind of parallel and similar. 353 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, but. 354 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 3: How we kind of think about it in the way 355 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 3: of progress, and you know, and we'll see that with 356 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 3: the next generation. That's you know, whereas her understanding of it, 357 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 3: you know, it's just that's the way it was. Yeah, 358 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 3: and you navigate it in a way that you know, 359 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: be it double state of consciousness, be it you you 360 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 3: find a way to navigate model minority like and back 361 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 3: then and you didn't say much, right, you know, you 362 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 3: didn't say much. 363 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 2: You was saying right, right. 364 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 3: And her having an understanding like for her to ask 365 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 3: that question of ruth for her, that didn't seem like 366 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: a little act of rebelution, right, like you know, Patricia 367 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: Turner says in the film it for her, you know, 368 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 3: she feels very insignificant and you know, and asking that 369 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 3: question doesn't seem revolutionary, you know. But then you take 370 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 3: it to me listening to that, and I'm like, hello, 371 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: where we are right now as a generation in the 372 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 3: sense of I'm hoping you know, that's something that you 373 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 3: know doesn't get washed away? Is that sense of vocalness 374 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 3: and asking I was like, that's it. Don't be afraid 375 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 3: to ask the question. And let's take it a step further. 376 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 3: Let's take it beyond the person of color at the 377 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: table asking the question. Can we get our white counterparts 378 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 3: to like ask that question, ask the tough question, why 379 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: aren't there any you know, people of color at the 380 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: freaking table, right, you know, like, don't leave it to 381 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 3: us to come in as the one person and being. 382 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: Like because we tired that part, Oh my god, like 383 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: come on, somebody else got to stand up like, yes, yes, 384 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 2: and so give me a break. 385 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 3: Give me a break. And so for me, you know, 386 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: she was able to for my aunt, she was able 387 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 3: to carve out a really an amazing living, an amazing 388 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: life for herself. You know, she's she's, you know, financially, 389 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 3: was able to make that work, being really smart busy 390 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 3: with her business, you know, as smart as ruthe handler 391 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 3: with handling the money that she was making at the company, 392 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 3: and which wasn't a lot. You know, she's like, I 393 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 3: came in making like seventeen cents, you know, and can 394 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 3: you imagine, you know, and then for me to come 395 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 3: around and I look at and you know, she retires 396 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 3: as a VIP receptionist, and I was like, and may 397 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 3: you hit the glass ceiling, you know, you know, and 398 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 3: so for me looking in at it. But then we 399 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 3: have a similar experience and journey because you know, times 400 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 3: are different. Yeah, and sometimes for the work that we do, 401 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 3: it still feels like it's seventeen cents an hour. 402 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 2: Times are different, but the feelings are still the same. 403 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yes. 404 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 2: That's a fact. 405 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. So it was just me kind of really unpacking 406 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 3: and unraveling that that kind of you know, the sentiments 407 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: when I kind of wrote out, you know, me and 408 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 3: my aunt are from different generations, but we have a 409 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 3: similar experience, like how things change but never change right facts. 410 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: Well chow, that was a word right there. Do you 411 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 2: think your aunt looks back and just be like just 412 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,479 Speaker 2: look at how important her role was? 413 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 3: Like I said no when I because if. 414 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 2: One has said nothing, we probably would never had a 415 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: black Barbie. 416 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 3: I mean if she hadn't. It's like Patricia Turner said, like, 417 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: if my aunt may wasn't there at the company, would 418 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 3: there have been a thought for them to hire a kiddy? 419 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 3: Right in a leadership Roland having an understanding you know, 420 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 3: that what we are you know, charting out is it's 421 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 3: not enough to have people of color as your workers. 422 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 3: We need people of color in the board, in the 423 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 3: leadership position. And so that's what we see is Kitty 424 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 3: being able to come in as lead designer, a black woman, 425 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 3: who then hires two black designers and makes black Barbie 426 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 3: a reality. So you get that like understanding of representation 427 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: and the you know, and we we're seeing it now 428 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 3: play out in you know, a different way. You know, 429 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 3: I was just watching some news before I got here. 430 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: But it's like, be. 431 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 3: Grateful that you're at the table right, you know. And 432 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: it's something we say in the movie too, in the 433 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: third act, being you know, it doesn't matter how you 434 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 3: show up, doesn't matter you are in the space. So 435 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 3: if you know you're not in the space in a 436 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,719 Speaker 3: leadership role, just progress is slow to get there. Just 437 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 3: be gratful. Just be grateful though you have this opportunity 438 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 3: that was you know, like given to you, but not 439 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 3: that you have actually worked for. You know what, I'm like, No, 440 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 3: I've worked really hard. I just get to hear tears, 441 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 3: Yes exactly, I wasn't just sitting on the couch potato 442 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 3: chips and you gave me. 443 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: A job like no right. And the fact that Black 444 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: Barbie came twenty one years after Barbie, I think that 445 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: speaks volumes within itself exactly. 446 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 3: So that was the other thing that I found very Oh. 447 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 3: I just remember coming from a place where I didn't 448 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: understand the significance and the importance of dolls, the value 449 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 3: of them too, looking at this Black Barbie and having 450 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 3: an understanding like, oh wow, it took twenty one years, 451 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 3: and you know, in my voice in the film, I'm 452 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 3: just like, it's a doll. Yeah, Like so for me, 453 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 3: you know, what I'm communicating is having an understanding that 454 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 3: if this is what it takes for a piece of plastic, 455 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 3: can you imagine a pizza a plastic, a melanated piece 456 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 3: of plastic twenty one years to be worthy of the 457 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 3: Barbie brand name. Can you even imagine what it's like 458 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 3: to navigate this this world and the space in white 459 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 3: spaces as a black woman, human flesh and blood. I 460 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 3: was sitting there relating to Black Barbie's journey in a 461 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 3: way that it's our journey. Yeah, it's yeah, and. 462 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 2: Go ahead, yeah, because I love how you you showcase 463 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 2: the different generational differences in how black Barbie is perceived 464 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: because you got the younger girls, you know, they're like, okay, 465 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: this is barbieus like she was, I love her, grand 466 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: next to play with her. But then when you got 467 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 2: to the older women, and like I think one of 468 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 2: the women she started crying and I'm just like they 469 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: see themselves. And when I was growing up, I wasn't 470 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 2: allowed to play with white dolls. So I think you 471 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: did a really good job doing that. Like, did you 472 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 2: notice that, like the difference between the two generations. 473 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 3: I did mention, and I think, you know, coming from 474 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 3: this perspective, you know, my journey is not really liking 475 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 3: to play with dolls in general to definitely having and 476 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 3: you know, I have recollection of having white dolls, and 477 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 3: you know, we had a black cabbage patch. I do 478 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 3: remember that we had. My mom especially made some black 479 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 3: raggedy and Raggedy Andy from my brother, Like you know, 480 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 3: she spent one hundred and fifty dollars a pop on 481 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 3: these plushy like black versions of Raggedy Ann and Raggedy 482 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: Andy so that we could have them. We were not 483 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 3: a rich family by any means, but you know, as 484 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 3: I grew up and got older that had a certain 485 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 3: that landed on me in a way of having an 486 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 3: understanding that even though we were allowed to play with 487 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 3: white dolls, that my mom had this thought of, you know, 488 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 3: I'm going to spend this money right so that my 489 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 3: kids can see. You know, we from the South of 490 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 3: Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy. They're big, big players in 491 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 3: the toy game out there. So you know, I think 492 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 3: I wasn't surprised. 493 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: At how deep it got. 494 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I wasn't surprised at how deep it got 495 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 3: because of the way I was feeling about Black Barbie's 496 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 3: twenty one year journey. And I think that you know, 497 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 3: between the women, the younger women and the older women, 498 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 3: first and foremost, it was just really important to show 499 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 3: that it's not a monolithic experience. Facts. Facts, we don't 500 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 3: all think the same, you know, we don't all you know, 501 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 3: want the same thing. We don you know, so just 502 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 3: so it was important to showcase that. And since my 503 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 3: experience was, you know, coming from a place that you know, 504 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 3: we were affirmed as black children in our home, but 505 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 3: we were still allowed to watch a lot of white 506 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 3: TV and play with white dolls, and you know, Leah 507 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 3: Williams came in as our producer, and she kind of 508 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 3: offered this other perspective of like, well, she's like you, 509 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 3: she didn't have any white dolls my parents. Her parents 510 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 3: was just like, no white dolls. You playing black dolls, 511 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 3: you know exactly. So you know, she was the one 512 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 3: that was kind of like, well, you're you really are 513 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 3: speaking from your perspective, your experience in my in you know, 514 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 3: your experience navigating in this way that brings that questions 515 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 3: your worst Yeah, and because of this, you know, you know, 516 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 3: playing with white dolls, and but there's all other you know, 517 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 3: schwatch swath of you know, black women, black girls who 518 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 3: are like my household. So then you know, I was like, okay, 519 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 3: let's you know, talk about that. And you know, that 520 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 3: was something we were able to actually really shore up 521 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 3: when Seandaman got involved and could talk more about that 522 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 3: play with intentionality. Yeah, yeah, and I think in our 523 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 3: third act we were able to bring it, you know, 524 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 3: home with the kids, with the kids, because that was 525 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 3: attar such an important part and have an understanding that 526 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 3: you know, at least from my perspective, what I was 527 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 3: you know, taking is that taking away from it is 528 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 3: that those kids are very affirmed and it's overwhelmingly positive 529 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 3: how they see themselves. Yeah, but what we were able to, 530 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 3: you know, do in the film was showed the cracks 531 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 3: that no matter how affirmed and how intentional, even with 532 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 3: my you know, my niece who's in the film. 533 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: Oh that was deep right there. 534 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 3: You Yeah, Like it's hard to combat the reality, which 535 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 3: is the what the kids are seeing and experiencing. 536 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 2: When your Na said that, I was like, Wow, that 537 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 2: was that was that was That was a moment. 538 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:00,479 Speaker 3: Yeah. 539 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: So and just to give you all reference if you 540 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 2: haven't seen Black Barbie. And I'm paraphrasing, but pretty much, 541 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 2: she said that she doesn't feel that Black Barbie can 542 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 2: make it if she wasn't beside Barbie. 543 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, like that shit is deep, Like she couldn't be 544 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 3: as successful like she Yeah. 545 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 2: But I also think that what I really enjoyed about 546 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 2: the kid part in part three was that you showcase 547 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 2: the study, a well known study that show young children 548 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 2: of color would acts choose between a white doll and 549 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 2: a brown doll, and often they would pick the white 550 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 2: doll because they associate whiteness with goodness. And that was like, 551 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 2: let's say, twenty thirty years ago and here we are 552 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 2: in current time and you show kids, and kids was like, no, 553 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: like this. I mean, there were a few little brownies 554 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: that was picking little white dogs, but majority of the 555 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 2: brownies were like no, because her hair is not like 556 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 2: mine or her skin is not like mine, Like she 557 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 2: doesn't look like me. So I thought that was important 558 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 2: because I'm like, look how Farbi came. 559 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:01,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, look how far we come? 560 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 2: Yea, even though we gotta see the libram. 561 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 3: Yes. And then I think it was really interesting to 562 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 3: have an understanding that when it came to who Barbie 563 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 3: is and was it is Mattlibu Barbie. And then one 564 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 3: of the things that the doll test from the nineteenth 565 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 3: nineteen forties, the Clark Maymie and oh my goodness, I'm 566 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 3: forgetting yea, how is that possible? Holy moly. Yeah, we 567 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 3: just had a screening, so you would think that information 568 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 3: was at the forefront of my head, my mind, and 569 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 3: I remember maybe, and that'll never go away because that's 570 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 3: my dad's mom's name, Grandma Maymie, So that'll always be 571 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 3: just like at the forefront. And I keep thinking, like, 572 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 3: Philip Clark, is that right? But her husband, the Clerks, 573 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 3: they did the test in the nineteen forties and having 574 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 3: an understanding that also one of the we reimagined it. 575 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 3: It was used as inspiration because you know, one of 576 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 3: the things that they really did that was interesting. One. 577 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 3: It's a forced choice test too. You know, they just 578 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 3: put both the black baby doll and the white baby 579 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 3: doll and a diaper. And so what we you know, 580 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 3: saw with our tests that doctor Amerisofia structured out for us, 581 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 3: which is amazing. She did such amazing work with that 582 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 3: is the kids referencing you know, the clothes and the 583 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 3: shoes and the accessories which were stripped away from the 584 00:40:55,160 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 3: baby dolls. So when they were choosing back then, that's 585 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 3: really all they had to focus on. And then of 586 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 3: course we brought in you know, a variety like of 587 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 3: backgrounds for the kids we brought in and a variety 588 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 3: of backgrounds for the dolls as well. 589 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm just curious when creating Black Barbie 590 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: the documentary, was there anything that you learned about yourself? 591 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: Oh? 592 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I learned all kinds of things about myself. I 593 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 3: unpacked so much just around dolls. And hopefully you're watching 594 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 3: and you're pulling certain things that you can watch it 595 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,439 Speaker 3: several times and have different things you can like pull 596 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 3: from it. You know, that was the goal hopefully to 597 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 3: create something so nuanced and a way that you know, 598 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 3: possibly we introduced something you hadn't considered or you know, 599 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 3: thought about, and you know, having an understand that I 600 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 3: and so many other people in the film are adults 601 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 3: talking about when they were kids. Yeah, and then to 602 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 3: sit down with the kids because those kids will grow 603 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 3: up and having none understanding that. You know, a lot 604 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 3: of what our researchers said in the film was, you know, 605 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 3: they are talking about race, they just don't have the 606 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 3: language that right, you know, pick up on and right, 607 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 3: and having an understanding that these kids are going to 608 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 3: grow up to be adults talking about when they were kids. 609 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 2: The documentary started off as talking about black Barbie, but 610 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 2: when it shifts, oh man, it's so many different things 611 00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 2: that we can talk about when it comes to your 612 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 2: document especially when it comes to race. Like just the 613 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 2: way how even when Barbie did the whole black Lives 614 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 2: Matter thing, like it was just like it was It's 615 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 2: just it's just so crazy, how it's a grown, real 616 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 2: person you can relate to the struggles of a dog, 617 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 2: like it was very emotional to watch during certain points. 618 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, we hope there's you know, like 619 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 3: like I said, life, there's joy, Yeah, you know, some 620 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 3: tears laughter, you know, it encompasses, it'll take you on 621 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 3: an emotional ride. 622 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely like life. 623 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 3: So hopefully you're laughing at some point. You might be 624 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,839 Speaker 3: a little weepy at some point, but hopefully when we 625 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 3: get towards the end, and you know, we kind of 626 00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,399 Speaker 3: incorporate of course, the making of Black Barbie documentary in there. 627 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 3: There's so many things that you know, you'll feel empowered 628 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 3: to see that. You know, Black Barbie, we've created space 629 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 3: and made space for her on the timeline. You know, 630 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 3: we've made her the hero of her own story and right, 631 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 3: you know, and so hopefully that's something that you know, 632 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 3: one of the main takeaways is is that no matter 633 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 3: how much they want to strip away and try to 634 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 3: erase our accomplishments and what our contributions are to these 635 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 3: United States of America, you know that we know why 636 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 3: the cage birds sing, and we gonna we gonna be 637 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 3: out here doing what we do. We gonna see a need, 638 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 3: We're gonna put some people together and we're gonna make 639 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 3: it together. We gonna make it happen. We tired, I'm 640 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 3: gonna tell you we out here exhausted, but that's not 641 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,440 Speaker 3: gonna stop us. And if we can't do it, we're 642 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 3: gonna pass the torch to someone else who can. So 643 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 3: let's let's do it. Let's you know. Yeah. 644 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,280 Speaker 2: So, now that the documentary is complete, has it changed 645 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,280 Speaker 2: the way you think about legacy, both personally and culturally? 646 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so funny because that's what I'm in the 647 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 3: middle of. I wouldn't say middle, but like rewriting a 648 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 3: script that kind of uh talks explores the legacy of 649 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 3: the Black Rodeo through the protagonists of a black girl 650 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,399 Speaker 3: and a black cow girl, you know, and it is 651 00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 3: she comes from a family of legacy, he rooted in 652 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 3: the rodeo and what does that mean? And so I 653 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 3: guess I am in a in an era of exploring legacy. 654 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 3: And it's funny because that wasn't a main theme really, 655 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 3: Like I didn't hear I didn't. I called it like 656 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 3: our hero story. So the hero story a stories my 657 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 3: aunt Katie and Stacy and Black Barbie. Right, that's that 658 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 3: a story. We're there, And it really wasn't until I'm 659 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 3: reading through the transcripts and the lovely, wonderful, beautiful Ashley 660 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 3: blamed Feathers and Jenkins. I'm reading through her her her transcripts, 661 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 3: and it's just like legacy, legacy, legacy. Sometimes I felt 662 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 3: like a beautiful mind with my transcripts and like trying 663 00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 3: to put this this paper cut together, and the word 664 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 3: legacy was popping up and team and I was like, 665 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 3: these threads. Because we had a ten hour movie that 666 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 3: was not a movie, you know, that I needed to 667 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 3: figure out really the core, you know, of you know, 668 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,400 Speaker 3: what it was that we were wanting to, you know, 669 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,239 Speaker 3: really put out there and say, and how we were 670 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 3: going to get to point A to point B to 671 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 3: point C to the end, you know. And so she 672 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 3: was less like legacy, and I was like, okay, so 673 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 3: this is our legacy story. 674 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 675 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 3: And then of course, once I started to really look 676 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 3: at it like that, I had already thought in terms 677 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 3: of this connection of what Black Barbie meant for my 678 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:03,720 Speaker 3: aunt Kitty Stacey was kind of validation of being seen 679 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,920 Speaker 3: and heard, her existence in a space where oftentimes you're silence, 680 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 3: like Ashley Blaine Feathers and Jenkins says in the film, 681 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 3: and you know, the parallel journey of you know what 682 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:22,279 Speaker 3: it means to actually have Black Barbing the documentary out 683 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 3: on Netflix, out in the world, having conversations like we're 684 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 3: doing right now, sparking conversations hopefully traveling everywhere. 685 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 2: He was at a parade you. 686 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 3: Look at the state. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know, 687 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,360 Speaker 3: hopefully that's not something that like stops because you know, 688 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:47,800 Speaker 3: people don't feel it's relevant or needed. Conversations, have needed 689 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 3: documentary to be talking about these say what we woke 690 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,799 Speaker 3: that has been weaponized and turned into something that co 691 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,319 Speaker 3: and turned into something that is just not right. And 692 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 3: so this is the times and where we're in a 693 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,360 Speaker 3: place where it feels like there is no more freedom 694 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,919 Speaker 3: of speech, There is no more being able to have 695 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 3: these conversations. The only thing that is it's dangerous almost 696 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 3: to think in terms of not dwelling in this the 697 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:32,400 Speaker 3: safety of you know, this administration and what they feel 698 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,799 Speaker 3: they're trying to strip us of all the language of 699 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,840 Speaker 3: seeing that we're here. I'm also a queer woman married 700 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 3: to a woman, so right, and so we are coming 701 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 3: into a space of having an understanding where for a 702 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 3: long time I was thinking Black Barbie is validation the 703 00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 3: documentary is validation of me being seen and heard in 704 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 3: the industry that is very hard to be seen and 705 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:11,800 Speaker 3: heard in of as a you know, a black queer woman, writer, director, 706 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:17,279 Speaker 3: And these are all identities that I embrace but know 707 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,279 Speaker 3: that I am more than right. That is not the 708 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:28,759 Speaker 3: all and the whole sum of of this, but you know, 709 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,359 Speaker 3: them passing the torch to me when it comes to 710 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:36,279 Speaker 3: the legacy and trying to get this story out in 711 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:41,879 Speaker 3: a mainstream way. You definitely did it, yes, and it's 712 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:45,360 Speaker 3: not something that's even documented in textbooks. And that was 713 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,360 Speaker 3: another thing that I realized that, you know, what my 714 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:55,480 Speaker 3: aunt was telling me, her story was nowhere to be found, 715 00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,960 Speaker 3: and that seemed like something that it didn't feel right 716 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 3: to me. 717 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also feel like, I don't think that 718 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 2: Mattel could have done what you did for Black Barbie. 719 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, And then I think that comes back to you know, 720 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,240 Speaker 3: it's not to say that only you know, a certain 721 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:22,000 Speaker 3: community can tell certain stories, but there is something to 722 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 3: that and to have an understanding that there are creatives, writers, directors, 723 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:40,719 Speaker 3: filmmakers from the community. Yeah, that you know, just it's 724 00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,720 Speaker 3: not for lack of you know, being able to do it. 725 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 3: It's for lack of opportunity to actually do it. Yeah, 726 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:53,120 Speaker 3: And so it's trying to balance those scales, like we 727 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,799 Speaker 3: just really need to be in a place where we 728 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 3: can pass the torch. So if I can help someone 729 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 3: yet something done that's outside of my community, I'm not 730 00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:08,279 Speaker 3: trying to step in, right. And I've been using columbus 731 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 3: as a verb, columbus ing. I was like, it's columbus ing. 732 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 3: It's coming into something and taking it as yours. 733 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 2: And you know, because I'm like, where's where's she going 734 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,720 Speaker 2: with this columbus. 735 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like it's an action, it's an active. 736 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 2: Verb to steal that from you. It's columbus in. 737 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, they out there columbus in, like you know, and 738 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,799 Speaker 3: not giving the opportunity. And then you know, we can 739 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:41,600 Speaker 3: talk about equity all day where you know, it's you know, 740 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,440 Speaker 3: potentially more equitable for someone outside of the community to 741 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 3: tell the story. Yeah, and you can see who profits 742 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:57,600 Speaker 3: from you know, if it's a uh say, a black 743 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 3: story that performs well and does well, you look behind 744 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,920 Speaker 3: the scenes and you see who's profiting from it. And 745 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 3: so you know, equity is on my mind yeah as well. Yeah, 746 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, you know. Yeah, yeah, we all know. 747 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,680 Speaker 3: We all know the systems rigged. I ain't saying nothing new. 748 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,279 Speaker 2: Right right, No, you're right, you're right. Oh man, what 749 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 2: this was an amazing conversation. I'm so happy that we 750 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,680 Speaker 2: were able to do this, like this was this was 751 00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:30,239 Speaker 2: really good. 752 00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,800 Speaker 3: But I didn't have one stand on me. Yeah about 753 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 3: that because my schedule was I was like, I gotta, 754 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,879 Speaker 3: I can't do that. Last week I was in New York. 755 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so listen, y'all, we supposed did this conversation maybe 756 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,280 Speaker 2: like two three weeks ago, and then she had got married, 757 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,680 Speaker 2: and then she after that you had won the NAACP Award, 758 00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 2: and I was like, come on, now, give me my conversation. 759 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:58,759 Speaker 3: Please. It's even more, I will say, like timing I 760 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,480 Speaker 3: is even more or you know, at the forefront of 761 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,279 Speaker 3: mine because you know, since I had the project for 762 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,399 Speaker 3: thirteen years, you know, I have a true understanding of 763 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,800 Speaker 3: what it means to be myself as a filmmaker thirteen 764 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,919 Speaker 3: years ago. And the filmmaker I was thirteen years ago 765 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 3: could not have made this film that we have on 766 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:26,040 Speaker 3: Netflix right now. So you know, I respect the journey 767 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,920 Speaker 3: and the time and then have an understanding that also 768 00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:35,239 Speaker 3: releasing it, you know, ten even ten years ago. The 769 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 3: timing time was just perfect. You know, we had what 770 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,719 Speaker 3: the twenty twenty three the Year of Barbie. We you know, 771 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,760 Speaker 3: dropped Black Barbie on Netflix in twenty twenty four, trying 772 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,759 Speaker 3: to make it the you know, get Black Barbie out 773 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,879 Speaker 3: there in a very intentional, meaningful way. 774 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,879 Speaker 2: Mom was like time, maybe you ain't leaving me out 775 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,960 Speaker 2: this one. We out here, y'all right, right. 776 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 3: Got something to say. And so timing is everything. So 777 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,360 Speaker 3: if we would have you know, kept some of the 778 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,719 Speaker 3: previously scheduled ones, you know, we wouldn't have been in 779 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,800 Speaker 3: a place where you know, I could talk about having 780 00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:22,280 Speaker 3: a wife, yeah, you know, winning an NAACP award. And 781 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,560 Speaker 3: so it's just I feel like it's enriched our conversation, 782 00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:27,360 Speaker 3: and the timing was just perfect. 783 00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. And last and not least, if Matil was to 784 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:32,120 Speaker 2: come to you and say they want to make you 785 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:33,560 Speaker 2: a Barbie doll, would you do it? 786 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,800 Speaker 3: You mean, like make a Barbie doll out of me? 787 00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:38,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 788 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,640 Speaker 3: You know, I'm gonna have to echo my aunt. You know, 789 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,080 Speaker 3: she'd be like me. 790 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 2: They should definitely make a Barbie doll of her. 791 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,640 Speaker 3: You know, that would be so amazing. She would love 792 00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 3: that so much. I would love that for her, you 793 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:58,560 Speaker 3: know something. Yeah, that would be something that I would 794 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,799 Speaker 3: love to see as opposed to seeing a you know, 795 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,160 Speaker 3: a black Barbie of me or just a Barbie of me. 796 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,279 Speaker 3: What they can do, though, is if they want to 797 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,200 Speaker 3: come over and collaborate and get me into some black 798 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 3: Barbie some kind of They making all kinds of movies 799 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:24,680 Speaker 3: over there, and they want to be inclusive. Okay, because details. 800 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,320 Speaker 2: I shouldn't need a partnership with Barbie, like I love Barbie. 801 00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,240 Speaker 3: Hit me up. Let's let's tell some stories. 802 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, have they have? They reached out to you just 803 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,839 Speaker 2: to say congratulations on the success of your documentary. 804 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,200 Speaker 3: Oh, I you know what I don't that's is that 805 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:41,560 Speaker 3: the job of Mattel. 806 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:43,120 Speaker 2: It's not the job of Mattel. 807 00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,600 Speaker 3: But you know, it would be nice, but I ain't 808 00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,279 Speaker 3: checking for it, and that I don't sure as heck, 809 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,200 Speaker 3: don't need it to validate. 810 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 2: What's going on. But I think that's also very telling, 811 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:58,359 Speaker 2: So we don't leave that there. No, thank you so much. 812 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,440 Speaker 2: I really appreciate you. I think this was an amazing 813 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,680 Speaker 2: conversation and I'm just so thankful that she was able 814 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,680 Speaker 2: to squeeze little o me into it, so I really 815 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,560 Speaker 2: appreciate it. You squeezed me into your schedule, So thank 816 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:09,239 Speaker 2: you so much. 817 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,840 Speaker 3: Thank you, Evane. Appreciate you having. 818 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,960 Speaker 2: Me on of course, and to listeners. If you have 819 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,240 Speaker 2: any questions, comments, or concerns, or you want to know 820 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:19,840 Speaker 2: more about my guests, please make sure to hit me 821 00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,160 Speaker 2: up a hello at the phgpodcast dot com. And until 822 00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,400 Speaker 2: next time, everyone, I know niggas was like she really 823 00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,919 Speaker 2: had a whole conversation about black Barbie. Yes, I did, 824 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 2: and it was fire. 825 00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,600 Speaker 3: I love it. Okay, I'm thank you for doing what 826 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:35,040 Speaker 3: you doing. 827 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:42,320 Speaker 2: Okay, until next time everyone, Later you're gonna say bye. 828 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:49,200 Speaker 3: Yeah bye. 829 00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,479 Speaker 2: The Professional Homegirl Podcast is a production of the Black 830 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 2: Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 831 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:01,440 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Overhever you listen to your favorite shows, 832 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,440 Speaker 2: don't forget to subscribe and rate the show, and you 833 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,120 Speaker 2: can connect with me on social media at the PG 834 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:07,880 Speaker 2: podcast