WEBVTT - EP. 148 - Michael Bamberger 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.640 Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon, a production of 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:11.680 I Heart Radio Welcome to the Clubhouse with Shane Bacon. 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.600 I am your host Shane Bacon in a fun one Today. 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.240 Michael Bamberger, author of The Second Life of Tiger Woods, 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:24.840 which came out yesterday, joins too simply discuss Tiger Woods. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:30.479 What better during this time in human history than to 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.440 have a book come out about the most interesting golfer 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.720 maybe athlete in the last years. It's a It's a 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.160 great read. It takes you through not just the two 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:46.320 thousand nineteen masters, of course that would be in professional golf, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.199 his second life, but takes you through simply Tiger is 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.720 a human being and what's been different over the last 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.120 two or three years versus how he was when he 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.840 came out as a professional, and all of the things 0:00:57.880 --> 0:00:59.800 that have changed, all of the things that have played 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.080 into his life that have led to those changes. An 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.560 unbelievable read. I urge you to pick it up, order online, 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:08.720 or just get it on your Kindle or whatever device 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:10.920 you read on. I loved it, couldn't put it down, 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:12.520 knocked it out in a couple of days. I think 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.000 you will enjoy it as well, if you're a fan 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:16.600 of golf, which you probably are if you listening to 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:18.520 this podcast, and if you're a fan of Tiger Woods, 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:20.960 which maybe you are. If you're listening to this podcast, 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.839 you're gonna enjoy the book, So pick it up. Bamburger 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.240 was great. Always love chatting with them first time on 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.640 the podcast, and uh and yeah, we went a lot 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.840 longer than maybe I thought we would because we had 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.000 a lot to talk about. Hopefully you guys are staying 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:38.080 sane and keeping yourself safe and being smart during this 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.160 unreal time in our history. I know it's it's been. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:43.880 There have been days that have been testing, there have 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.760 been days that have seemed to kind of roll by, 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.720 and all the while, we are, at least in my household, 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.480 trying to follow all the gold guidelines that have been 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.440 put out. And I hope you're doing the same thing. 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.240 Because we can get through this as a group, as 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.600 a society, as a country, as a world. I know 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.920 we can do it. I'm trying to stay positive. Hopefully 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.520 you are as well. One last thing for we get 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.160 to Michael, if you haven't checked out, get a grip. 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.280 That's my new. I guess new is news still fair? 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.760 To say my quota. I just did quote new I 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:17.200 did air quotes my new golf podcast with PJ Tour 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.359 winner Max Homa. Max and I have had now ten 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.040 episodes of Get a Grip. We try to do one 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.560 once a week. Of course, the early ones were a 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.360 little bit more current golf specific. The last few have 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.480 been a little bit more all over the place. But 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.640 we're trying to have some fun with it. We have 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.000 started to do read your Questions, and we have started 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.639 to do some lists like favorite nicknames in sports history 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.480 and and all of that. So we're trying to have 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.320 a little bit of fun and pass the time and 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.360 give people something to listen to. Of course, as Quarantine 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.919 continues on, that's enough for me. Let's get to Michael 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.359 and we welcome to the clubhouse for the first time. 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:58.360 Michael Bamberger, author of now Out The Second Life of 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.320 Tiger Woods. Of course, Michael the scene writery Golf Magazine 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.160 and golf dot Com, and Michael, I want to start 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.239 with this. They talk a lot about the smaller the ball, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.560 the better the story. I've always felt the more famous 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.880 the person, the tougher the profile, because we know so 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.680 much about him. Why would you want to take on 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.320 a Tiger Woods profile a Tiger Woods book. That is 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:26.040 a great question. Uh. Gary Dematto uh, writing up the 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.920 book UH for one of the Wisconsin Golf or his 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.920 own Wisconsin Golf publication, said there have been millions of 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.560 words written about this guy? Do we really need eighty 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.360 five thousand more? And it was and it was funny 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.000 that he said that, because I've written a million words 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:42.920 about this guy, and I wondered myself if we need 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.200 eighty five thousand more? And I guess the answer is 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.760 there's a lot of differints to answer, but one concise 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.480 answer would be there was a very definitive biography. You 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.680 probably read a Shane uh that came out two years ago, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.800 just called Tiger by Jeff Benedict and armed contained. It's 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.000 a really find book. Uh. And as a matter of fact, 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:04.640 I would say it's a starting point if you haven't 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.160 read any books about Tiger. Would say that book and 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.200 and the and the Haney book, to me would be 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.640 the first two books that I would read. But it's big. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.360 But a lot has happened since that book came out, 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.080 and so this book really covers a two year period 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:22.040 in Tiger Woods. This life that is extraordinary on an 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.120 athletic level and on a human level. Well, that leads 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.839 to one of my next questions. You know you you 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.000 mentioned Haney the big miss. Of course, the Tiger book 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.599 that you reference first is a deep, deep dive into 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:35.880 everything you'd ever want to know and probably some stuff 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.680 maybe you don't about Tiger. When you decided to take 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.080 on this project, and I know you're a reader, I 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.000 know you obviously pay attention to that world. How many 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.119 Tiger books did you make sure that you had read 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:53.720 and finished before starting your project? Well? Zero, because uh, 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.839 you know, I read the Benedict book, and I read 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.200 the Haney book, and I've read some of the other books, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.800 so you know, I'm well at air of what of 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.840 what they have. But once I started writing my own book, 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.359 and even started thinking about writing my own book, I 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.039 didn't pay occasion. I would definitely go back to the 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.360 Benedict Cataian book because they had so much information and 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.440 just be at the index. In terms of sitting down 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.800 and absorbing somebody else's take on Tiger, I didn't go 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:20.400 there at all because I didn't I didn't want it 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.280 in my head. So Tiger Woods, this is a guy 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.240 that has been in your life for the better part 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.080 of twenty years, if not longer, maybe twenty five years, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.680 if you will, if maybe even into the early junior ams. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.760 You know, when he was doing stuff we hadn't seen before. 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.479 The title of your book is the Second Life of 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.840 Tiger Woods. I feel like that could be taken in 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.320 so many different ways. I've I've watched Tiger's life changed 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:51.000 dramatically day to day, night tonight, headline to headline. This 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.400 is a guy that everything that has happened personally professionally 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.080 we have absorbed over the last twenty years of his 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.400 professional rear. You're calling this the second life. I feel 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.320 like the main focus of that title is simply about 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.520 him professionally. But as I as I dove deeper and 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.600 deeper into your book, I felt that the Second Life 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.600 of Tiger, at least the way you presented it, was 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.240 his personality. I mean, this is a guy that came 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.480 into our lives a stone faced killer on the golf course, 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.880 and now he's a guy that will answer questions, that 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.120 does certain things I loved. At the very end of 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.919 your book, you said you mentioned a note Greg Norman 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.240 at handed Tiger and Tiger never said anything about it, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.560 about the win, and one of the last few pages 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.559 of the book, you said, you know, Tiger saw Greg 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.600 and thanked him for the note. It were those, there 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.320 were those little tidbits that made you feel like the 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.080 second life of Tiger wasn't anything about his golf. It 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.919 was all about how he's presented now and how he 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.400 approaches life. Well, that's a very good insight, I would 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.600 I agree with all of that. Uh, you know what 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.120 you know from having read the book. My take on 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.720 the idea of the second life of Tiger Woods actually 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.520 having a starting date in my mind, uh, in my writing. 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.520 In other words, you know, I don't know this was 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.160 sound self absorbed, but this is what authors often do. 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.000 My take is that his second life began the day 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.280 he was arrested on that horrible Memorial Day night in 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.680 a in two thousand and seventeen, and he had to 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.640 he was really at a cross roads. Uh. I have 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.040 a personal take on the sex scandal, which you know, 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.720 in one sense was you know, a tragedy for Ellen 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.120 and uh and and his in his family life, but 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.000 none of our business. A lot of people think that, oh, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.160 when he came back from that went to rehab after that, 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.400 came back from that that that was maybe you know, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.280 a new chapter in the in the in the Life 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.640 and Times of Tiger Woods. I don't really think it was. 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.000 I think that I think the real moment of reckoning 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.200 came on that Memorial Day in two thousand and seventeen. Uh. 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:00.320 And I think he had to dig deep and find 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.320 out who he really was. So all the things Shane 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:07.000 that you just talked about, expressing more gratitude in in interviews, 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:12.600 being more patient with fans, being more engaged with officials 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.560 and tournament sponsors and and other players. Um, I think 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:21.000 that all is a function of him digging deeper into 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.400 who he really is, and uh and shedding some of 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.360 that you know, stone cold killer that you just described, 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.199 and uh and finding a humanity that some of us 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:35.800 really would never have might not have ever known really 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:40.360 existed when you rewatch the two thousand nineteen Masters. And 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.760 we'll talk a lot about that, because that was the 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.559 victory that that weaved itself through your book. Was his 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.560 his fifteenth major, finally getting that Masters in two thousand nineteen, 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.760 you know, the last obviously major, coming Tory Pines, when 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:55.960 HD was barely a thing. I mean when you were 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.280 we were watched it a couple of weekends ago. You know, 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.360 it's a lot different in O eight it is in nineteen. 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.520 But I always, you know, when I close my eyes 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.440 and think of Tiger Woods, and I think of Tiger 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.839 Woods the golfer. You know, I go to moments, the 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.120 huge fist pump at Sawgrass when he was playing in 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.840 the Ameter, and I think of you know, the celebrations 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.640 throwing his hat at bay Hill, you know, the two 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.600 fists up in the air to get into the playoff 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.520 with Rocko. The one thing that I continually noticed that 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.720 Sunday at Augusta was how that none of those things happened. 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.400 It was it was almost like he had a full 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:35.560 cell phone battery of of ability that day. This is 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.480 what I have in me. I can't waste any of 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.320 it because I've got to get my cell phone to 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.560 the end of the day with battery power. And then 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.840 it all came out when he finally won on the 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.880 eighteenth Green. But everything about that Sunday was just a 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.360 little bit different. I mean, three stomes going off early. 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.160 You know, it's Tiger, He's there, but he's chasing and 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.320 he's chasing a guy that face Tiger in a major 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.439 championship the year before and wasn't aired. It is so 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:06.160 interesting to see this quote unquote new Tiger and how 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.640 he approaches these huge moments versus what we've seen for 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.000 the better part of his career. All right, Shane, now 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.240 now you're making me mad. I mean, it's bad enough 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:17.320 that you're such a good golfer, you're such a handsome guy, 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.200 but now you're coming up with analogies that a way 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.480 better than I. I'm a guy that always has a 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.000 dead cell phone battery, so it makes total sense to me. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:30.440 That's that's perfect. I would completely agree with that he 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.640 was playing I mean, just to get it down into 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.120 the mechanics of Sunday at Augusta. Everything you said, I 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:39.160 completely agree with. Uh, But he was playing chess. Now 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.160 you're not playing chess that moment. You know you're on 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.800 seventeen team. You got to drill on. That's pure athleticism. 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.680 But everything else is chess, and chess requires tremendous reservoirs 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:54.080 of of ptitions and UH and and intellectual output, and 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.199 then you gotta go when it's time to go. So 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:58.559 I think you're right. He was pacing himself all the while. 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:00.920 He knew he was the guy with the four coats 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.440 and and none of those guys had any and that 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.680 gave big advantage, and that mistakes would be made by others, 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.440 and if he could avoid making mistakes, uh, that he 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.400 could get to the house with a little bit of 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.240 charged left in that battery. And as we saw, there 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.720 was a very little left in that battery. And luckily 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.400 for him, uh, it didn't go to a playoff, because 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.360 who knows what those fresher younger players might have done, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.160 uh in a playoff. Yeah, you you talked a little 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.559 bit about that. You mentioned his fear of that Bogey 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.160 bogey finish at Augusta. We saw it against De Marco. 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.440 You know, he chips in and things go crazy. And 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.320 this goes back a little bit to the energy, right, 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.400 that was so much energy he used in celebration and 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.560 firing up the crowd him and Stevie high five and 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.240 kind of missing the high five. But then he bogey's 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.120 seventeen and eighteen. It was a little bit like Kenny 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.480 Perry and all of a sudden he's in a playoff 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.720 and now he's got to refocus, re click in. And 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:55.760 of course he won that Masters as well. But I'm 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.000 with you, he did not win any extra holes. He 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.719 wanted that thing to end, and it ended. I want 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.960 to go back to the book. Just early on you 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.960 talk a little. I mentioned Greg Norman already. I'm not 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:11.960 sure I ever understood how close Tiger in his life 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.679 and his career followed what Norman did in his life 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:20.600 and his career. Well, how clearly, how closely Tiger followed. 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.000 Oh are you talking about the mechanics of hiring Steve Williams. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.360 There was a lot of that. There were so many 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:31.559 similarities with those two guys. And then he and then 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:36.440 he hired Norman's lawn guy. And by the way, to 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.480 call him a lawn guy an understatement. It's ridiculous art. 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.959 He's an artist with a lawnmower or estate managers. Maybe 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.720 I might be the right term. I'm not man sure. Yes, Well, 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.559 I mean, start with Butch Harmon. Start with the fact 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.040 that Greg Norman was the best player in the world, 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.840 drove the ball on a string, had all the shots 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.920 pretty much, uh, and had Butch Harmon as a seat. 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.600 And then uh, it was the number one player in 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.120 the world, and every which way that Tiger could supplant 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.520 the guy. And he goes back to what you said earlier, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.080 shaneem of being a stone cold killer. He was going 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:17.200 to supplant him. Uh so uh teacher, Uh state residents 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.960 approach to practice. You know, Butch says this all the time, 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.320 or he used to. Uh, you know, the hardest working 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.440 student he ever had was Greg Norman until he until 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.440 he had developed a relationship with this teenage golfer Tiger Woods, 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.559 and Tiger Woods had more capacity for work and more 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.920 ability to absorb information than even Greg Norman. Uh. It's 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.160 kind of weird because you know, you know, Greg was 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.480 the only one, you know, the two British opens his majors. 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.400 He's sort of gotten a short shrift and you know 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.360 he's got such a big personality stort of gott a 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.160 short shrift here. But before there was Tiger, there was Norman. Yeah, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.960 I mean, and we always here, you know, I'm I'm 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:54.920 thirty six. I didn't have a chance to watch a 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.000 lot of the Greg Norman prime days, but he was 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.640 the type of player that dominated with his distance, dominated 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.520 with his ball striking. Brad Faxton's told me a story 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.880 that he was playing I think Brad and Norman were 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.040 playing in a practice round and Brad, you know, famously 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.120 not a great driver. The golf ball was spraying it 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:14.959 a little bit all over the place, and I guess 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.280 Norman went up to Butch and goes, is this guy 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.840 a pro? And Butch goes, yeah, he's beating you by two. 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:21.920 You know, Norman was the hit it down the middle 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.040 of the fairway, hit it three and twenty yards, had 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.240 that look on his face all the time. But the differences, 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.480 of course being that Norman, when it seemed like the 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.960 brakes were gonna go his way, they didn't, And with Tiger, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.680 the brakes always always went his way. And it even 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.960 happened in nineteen. I mean, he's got two guys, he's 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.040 got a guy in front of him. In two thousand nineteen, 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.200 they're all chasing the same goal and all these guys 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.000 rinted and Tigers the guy that plays it to the 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.320 middle of the green smartly on twelve. And that was 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.760 really the story of that championship. Yes, although sometimes people 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.600 forget about what a mess mullinar he played the fifteen 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.600 bad first I did. I did as well. When I 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.400 was reading the book that is altered just a quick 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.760 funny note. Since you work in TV, you'll especially appreciate 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.800 the same. When um, when Harrington won that second Open 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.880 that was at Birkdale, correct and uh. And he was, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.160 I believe playing with Norman in the fourth round, and 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:17.960 Norman was newly married to Christie Evert and he I 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:19.360 think he would have been I'm sure he would have 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.160 been the oldest winner of a major. Could he have 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.320 pulled it off? And his putting stroke is spectacular And 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.760 fathers doing the commentary, I don't know for whom, but 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.520 I know I heard him say this, uh and uh, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.840 and he looks at Norman's putting stroke and he says, 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:39.600 it's not fair. It's there's absolutely no yipp in it whatsoever. 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.320 A little a little bit of what we are we 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.120 are seeing and continue to see with Tiger. One thing 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.400 and again one of my favorite things about there's two 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.520 things I love about your writing style. And I mean, 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.160 I'm just gonna say it. I continually believe you're one 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.400 of the best, if not the best, that covers this 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.560 beat in the entire world at what you do. So 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:00.800 reading a book that you and obviously a lot of 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.400 time on was a treat for me. But two things 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.560 you do that are amazing. One is you're just a 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:07.800 perfect word smith. Let me just give people an example. 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.000 You were talking about Tiger and last year at the 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.000 Masters and on Sunday, correct me if I'm wrong here, 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.160 but on Sunday before the Masters. So that's the drive, 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.280 chip and put day. The only people allowed on the 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.840 big course, if you will, are members and past champions. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.760 Is that right? Yes, that's so. Tiger was playing an 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.640 afternoon nine whole practice around and you wrote this and 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:33.680 I just loved it. I screened. I had to take 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.080 a picture of the page. You said. The PGA Tour 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.320 produces a mountain of stats under headlines like strokes gained 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.920 putting and strokes gained ball striking. What nobody can measure 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:48.640 is strokes gained thinking, strokes gained preparing, strokes gained imagining, 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.640 and you you just felt like what you were seeing 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.200 with Tiger, he just had a couple of edges and 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.400 a putter, and he was out there going over a 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.720 golf course that we all know he understands and has 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:01.960 seen more than anybody in the field, maybe outside of 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.320 Phil Mickelson. Yet he's out there this Sunday before the Masters, 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.040 just just using everything he can, using all the time 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.840 allowed to prepare for what he knew was a chance 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.720 at another major championship. Well shame. First off, I want 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:21.119 to thank you for those that extraordinarily generous uh comment 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.720 about my writing. I really really appreciate it. And then uh, 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:29.200 and you you know this, but other others wouldn't. Any 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.800 writer nonfiction gets a lot of help and I've got 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.320 a lot of and uh and and too, so two 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.920 things that come to mind when you're talking about that. Uh. No, 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.000 of course I wasn't out there walking with Tiger woods 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.600 and play the nine holes. But you know, between talking 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.439 a little bit, hearing Tiger talk about it, a little bit, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.359 hearing Joe Kaba talk about it, Chaldo who was out there, 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.440 Terry Holt, Bernard Langer's caddy, who's out there? So they 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.439 all these sources together helped me get a deeper sense 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.520 of what it was. But Faldo was the most selpful 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.600 because because he saw it through a champion's eyes, that 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.480 he understood what I might not have understood. How to 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.919 not talked to Faldo, uh that he was getting in 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:14.040 the mood, in the mood to play that that golf course. Uh, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.480 so you do get so so I do want to 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.639 acknowledge all the help that a nonfiction marter gets, whereas 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:22.480 the picture writers, you know, often just sitting in the room, 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.359 although he or she gets a lot of help too. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.360 And then another thing, he said, I have no idea 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.920 if the story is apocryphal or not, but even if 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.000 it is, it conveys so much. There's a famous story 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.000 about Jack Nicholiffs going to the driving range of the 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.240 practice tea and uh and there's a ball sitting there 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.639 and he stands over the ball with no club and 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.560 he just looks at the ball, and then he walks 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:43.280 back to the cliphouse. He says, yeah, I'm done for 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.920 the day. And the point is, you know so much. 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.040 I've never heard that one before. I have not, And 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.080 you know, it doesn't sound true. It doesn't sound big Jack, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.119 but but it does make it sounds a little bit 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.280 more like Hogan. But it does make the point that 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.359 that's at that level, when you've got the physical parts 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.800 basically worked out, then it's how prepared are you mentally 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:06.480 for what you want to do to the golf course? 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.360 How much do you have a blueprint of what it's 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.880 going to look like? And Tiger is the king of 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.200 this and U And one one example that that comes 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.919 to mind is was, now, let's see, he's won two 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.359 opens at the old course. So this I'm I'm not 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.639 remembering the year immediately. No, okay, not two thousand. That 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.639 was his first of the second time. Okay, thank you, 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.040 so oh five when he won the second one, and 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.560 uh And it was a clinic and he came into 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.160 the and he came into the depressed send. Everyone's leaning 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.120 in and he starts the sentence with I'll tell you what, 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:43.280 and people are leaking, you know, all the writers are 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.040 leaning in. It's like, oh, Tiger is going to give 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.280 us a revelation. And this is this is close to 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.960 what he said before I went out there today. That 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.760 was the best warm obsession I've had in years, or 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.359 you know, the best warm obsession I had in my life. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.439 And everyone's like, oh man, could you possibly give us 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.359 something we can use? Uh. I remember just sinkly thinking 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.760 it was boring, but it was truthful. In other words, 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.879 he had played the golf course in his mind and 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.679 played the shots that he thought he was going to 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.080 need in the on the practice tea, and then it 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.560 was just a simple question of of executing. It's not 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.520 so simple, but it is a question of executing it. Uh, 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.240 that's how his mind works. And uh, it's not colorful 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.240 and it's not romantic like seve A or Trevino or 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.359 you know, remember else you might put in that group, 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.080