WEBVTT - Ed Gordon Full Interview 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.840 But next guest is uh deir friend Um been knowing 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.560 him wow. When I first started managers the way back 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:09.399 in the radio days in l A. He's to come 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.160 in there man with the camera crew. He's always been 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.640 a go getter, but more importantly, he's one of the 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.759 most widely respected, award winning journalists in the industry today. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.200 Over the course of his stellar career, he's worked at 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:25.320 various television networks including b E T, NBC in m S, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.480 NBC and CBS. Were hosted and contributed to programs including 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:34.000 Conversations with Ed Gordon b ET Tonight, b E T News, 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.800 Sixty Minutes, NBC Today's Show, and Dateline. He is also 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.720 a former host of Our World with Black Enterprise and 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.840 NPR News. He is a new book, Conversations in Black, 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.400 where he brings some of the today's top leaders and 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.360 influences together to explore new narratives for African American leadership 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:56.760 and the post Obama era and the Trump Era. The 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.880 book the book were released on Hatbayed by Hatchet Books 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:03.880 on January fourte of this month is available for pre 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.880 order right now. Please work on the money making Conversation 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:13.920 my Man, Ed Gordon Man Well First of all, this 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.119 book I kind of you know, I know, this book 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.960 kind of started being developed in twenty twel because we 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.000 should do the neighborhood awards together. So it was always 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.920 talked and so I'm not I'm not shocked by coming out. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.399 But it's also when we started talking to Obama as president, 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.320 and so it really allows I've read the book, and 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.279 it allows for you to tell a unique story because 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.360 now you have the Obama experience and now you have 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:42.240 the Trump experience. Yeah, it's interesting, Rashaan. I started in 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.600 at least the idea came to me, and the book 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:50.200 itself is written as if all forty plus of us 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.360 were in the same room having a conversation. You know, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.640 often some of the best nuggets come out of interviews, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.480 when you're talking to the person before or after the interview. 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.040 And I said to myself, with all the great people 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.400 I talked to, uh, it wouldn't be great if I 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.880 could get everybody in the same room. Well, I knew 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.520 I couldn't do that, but I said I could have 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.960 what people would see as a virtual conversation. Now, so 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.880 it's written as if we're all sitting together, and each 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.080 chapter is a different topic. So we talk about Black 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.440 girl magic. We talked about Black Lives Matter, the Black vote, 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.080 the Obama years, Trump images in Black America. We cover 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.119 everything and some of the people we have Maxine Waters, 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:37.880 Harry Belafani, t I, Jamel Hill, Angela ry uh Stacy Abrams, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.720 Eric Holder. I mean, the list goes on and on, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.080 DL Hugh Lee, Charlemagne and God. And what I'm most 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.240 proud of man is I started in two twelve, I 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.519 had to stop it because I got a TV project. 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:56.280 I picked it back up uh last year in and 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.519 now we've got the culmination of this, and I think 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.360 it's important because our community has kind of been stuck 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.960 in neutral. We need some new narratives because I fight 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.360 for justice and equality, as you and I talked about 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.400 all the time continues. And it's really important that you 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.400 say that because you know at certain points of the 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.160 book that you were pointing out, like in you talked 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.200 about when you was on the Steve Harvey Show and 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.320 there was in November about the voting and you was 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.040 on the phone being interviewed, and you felt the synergy there, 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.760 The energy wasn't there for the Black vote. It felt 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.960 like there was a complacency, and and and because of 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.040 the complacency, we have to believe that may have cost 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.400 Hillary Clinton, among other things, the opportunity to be the 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.040 next president of the United States. When you talk about 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.040 that complacency, we're talking about that same complacent thing complacencing today, 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.800 even though we are provided with much more channels of communication, 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.520 especially with social media, right absolutely. And Rashan, you know, 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.720 you brought me on Steve Show and gave me a 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.680 segment because you understood this, making sure that we got 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.040 certain words out and looked at certain ideas and certain issues. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.240 And you know, Black America has been taken for granted 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.400 for a long time, and because of that, I think 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.640 we have become complacent with you know, I look at 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.400 the the NFL playoffs right now. You know, four black 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.520 quarterbacks when there were years and years and years and 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.200 people believed no black quarterbacks. You know, they talk about 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.520 all these new coaches that they want to hire, but 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.880 tell them, do you hear a black name mentioned? Even 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.520 with the NFL talking about the Rooney rule, And We're 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.120 gonna really look at minorities they don't. We're looking at 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.360 what Trump has done over the course of this next 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.640 four years and I hastened to say, and I hate 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.120 to even admit this, but he could win again in 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.039 eight years of Trump. As Stacy Abram said says in 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.280 the book, if you think this four years has been bad, 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.320 you better strap in if he wins again. Absolutely. So 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:52.839 when you when we go through the book, you know, 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.320 then you mentioned some of the name Dio, Hughgule, Eric Holder, 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.719 Jamal Hill, all shopped at, Michael Eric Dyson t I 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.960 these are these are the p eighty people. But also 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.320 you have an opinion ed And that's when I was 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.360 when I was reading a book, you kind of took 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.360 a step back and allowed them to tell the delivered 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.880 the narrative. Was that difficult for you or that was 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.080 the whole approach to the book? Now? Really that was 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.560 the approaches you know, uh Rashan, I have been a 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.320 traditional journalist my entire career, so I don't often give 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.440 my opinion, though in this book I get more of 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.839 my opinion than I would normally. But as I said, 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.520 I thought the dynamic of this book was to get 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.840 all of these people to your point. The people that 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.080 you bring in, the people that are go getters, that 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.240 you know, the rule change that the people that make 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:44.800 a difference. I thought bringing together forty plus of those 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.240 folks would be so dynamic. I mean, we've got April 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:53.360 Rain who started Oscar so White, Ronna Burke, who started 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.039 the Me Too movement. Uh. You know, they're talking about 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:01.000 black girl magic um with with the Yamba. Uh you know. 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.960 I mean I just felt like we need to start 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.320 talking and then more importantly, out of those conversations, we 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.920 have to start doing and if not, we're gonna just 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.920 be sitting in this neutral spot. One of the things 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:17.640 we do on one of the chapters is we look 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.680 at black leadership and ask the question whether or not 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.840 they've been doing enough. And you know, that's really interesting 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.080 thing about him talking to Ed Gordon. His book Conversations 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.280 in Black, Uh, you can pre order it now is 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.760 being presented by Hatchet Books that being stores are January fourteen. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:38.640 Conversations in Black with Ed Gordon. He's interviewed forty UM 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.160 industry decision makers. People are talked to them on a 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.200 daily basis about leadership, about what's next, what's next. But 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.839 that leadership I think is, you know, because we always 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.880 go back to what real leadership, you know, we always 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.599 go back to Martin Luther King and you true leaders 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.120 and you go to Malcolm X true leader, and after 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.880 that it kind of gets confusing. Ever since then, who 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.520 do we turn to? You know, entertained Eamon has somehow 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:06.440 become the leaders of the Voice of Black America music. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.400 You know, in your book you talk about Marvin Gay, 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.040 you know what's going on that CD that that resonates 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.960 with me, that music steal is relevant today. But I 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.720 feel that when you start talking about leaders, I think 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:23.000 our leaders are entertainers. I think kill Mike Killer Mike 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.160 and t I both say that in the book. And 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.800 we always had entertainers who were leaders. You know, you 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.160 think about the Civil rights movement. Harry Belafonte was out there, 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.559 and Sammy Davis Jr. And Sydney Partier, but you also 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.480 had those other leaders that you know, we're in the four. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.840 If I ask you twenty years ago name the top 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.920 ten black leaders, you could do it without even thinking 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.480 boom boom boom, boom boom. Today, you know, if I say, okay, 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.440 I'll give you Al Sharpton, I'll give you you know, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.360 four or five people after that, name me ten more 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.800 people struggle, And so I don't know that we have 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.960 to have ten black national leaders like we used to. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.080 But what we do talk about in the book and 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:07.240 what we need desperately is a black agenda. No people 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:12.200 move forward without a plan, No, no team wins without 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.000 a game plan, and Black America doesn't have a game 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.840 plan right now. We hope that this book will be 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.480 the start to really move people, uh, to make a 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.560 difference in their communities, because sometimes we're sitting and waiting 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.960 on others to do. Rishan and you've always said, you 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.960 know the idea of getting going, you know, being your 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.240 own spark. And so if you don't see leadership in 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.040 your community, then you need to be the leader. Well 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.000 you know I that you know me ed uh my 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:45.920 passion about information, about making people aware, being able to 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.679 carve at that segment I wanted on the Steve Harvest 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.600 Show because I thought there was I feel still today 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.439 feel it's very relevant that we have a voice of 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.040 not tied to just music, not tied to what the 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.839 box offering, not tied to a joke about tied the 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.080 community results. Even look at BT and TV one, they 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.120 don't even have shows that the news generated to that 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.960 level that we would want on a regular basis. You 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.679 know they come on, but you don't know when they 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.520 come on, you know, and they become specials and but 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.959 it's still you know, you get a countdown to the 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.720 BT Awards, you get a countdown to the Black Girl 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.280 My Magic Show, you know, but you don't get uh. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.120 But this is really great because it's about ratings, but 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.000 it's more important to understand that information is key. We'll 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.520 be back with more information from my man Ed Gordon. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.520 He's on the show talking about Conversations in Black June. 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.840 January fourteenth is when the book will hit the stands, 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.360 but you can order the book now. Would be right 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.480 back with more Ed Gordon, my man long time, but 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.000 he still speaks the truth. Wow, right now, journalists, They're 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.840 going and bring some of today's top leaders and influences 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.440 together in conversation to explore new narratives for African American 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.959 leadership in America today in his new book, Conversations in 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.400 Black on Power, politics and Leadership. The book will be 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.960 released by Hatchet Books on January or team and you 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.400 can order right now. It's a pre ord the book 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.120 and welcome back to the show. And when I look 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.199 at the different chapters, you know what's going on? Obama, Trump, 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.120 stay woke, it's the generations, it's the general war. Stand 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:17.520 up black men, stand up, black girl's magic, the media. Lemma, 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:24.920 am I black enough for you? Oh? And much much more? 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.360 What chapter? And it was? You know, because you always 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.520 have something Because let me just tell you about my 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.080 relationship with Ed is that, first of all, I've seen 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:37.600 him motivate people in the public speaking form, and he's 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.520 a natural individual who it's an educated individual, but when 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.400 you meet him, you read somebody that you can actually 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.200 just sit down and just eat a hamburger with. And 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.680 that's a skill that I always admired about it. He 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.200 knows that I always felt that. That's why I always 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.559 felt that his force needs to stay out there, Lisa, 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.480 stay at the front of communicating our values. That's why 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.520 I felt when I read about your book coming out, 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:01.360 I said, I got they have on the show because 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.000 conversations is black. It's really about everybody. You know, it's 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.079 not tied to color. Because what people don't understand is 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.280 that if one dominant race sufferers, then it does impact 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.040 other people. And people don't get that. Racism doesn't see that. 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.120 You know, they're just they just sees we're gonna suppress, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.640 We're gonna we're gonna become the power brokers. But if 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.200 you if you hold back, it creates crime, It creates 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.800 a incarceration, it creates it creates a community, that creates 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.880 lower property taxes. And if people will understand that, that's 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.800 what I when I when reading your book, That's what 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.160 people just the number one thing is that all we 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.959 want is a shot. All we want is an opportunity. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.320 And that's what kept coming out of the pages and 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.480 pages that I kept reading about from the various decision 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.520 makers that you were speaking with. Yeah, you know, it's 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.319 interesting because, uh, for so long, you know, James Brown 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.600 talked about, you know, kicking the door and you know, 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.480 I'll get it myself. And the idea of what black 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.440 people have wanted for years simply that opportunity. You know, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.320 they tried to paint us as the welfare queens and 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.200 lazy and the light but we are none of those things. 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.640 And and you know, uh, we are the complete opposite 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.439 of those things. We have fought bled uh and continue 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.720 to do so to be a part of this country 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.320 and to make ourselves great in this country. In spite 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.960 of the odds and so you know, uh, the chapter 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.680 Am I Black enough for you? Because it was interesting 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.280 to me because even within our race, we still to 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.800 this day have this sense of determining, you know, whether 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.839 you can have your black hard and give that out 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.800 and you know, and you can you be a corny, nerdy, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:45.560 comic book uh loving person and still be quote unquote black. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.120 You know, there's still the light versus dark things, um, 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.319 and so you know, these are things that we need 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.560 to to move past and get over. You know, so 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.679 many other people have it out for us. We don't 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.800 need the kind of infighting. We talked seriously about that 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.959 in that chapter and what we need to do to 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.920 move past it. So, you know, one of the things 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.440 that I hope is I say at the end of 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.320 the chapter, there's some questions, and we're hoping that people 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.040 will read this like a book club and ask yourself 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.840 these questions and then come up with your own questions 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.880 about what are you doing to move not only your 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.280 life forward as an individual, um, but to to better 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:29.199 your community and on a whole you know, your race, Rashan. 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.320 When you and I were growing up, uh, you know, 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.080 the elders used to tell us that we were representative 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.400 of all of us. You know, you represented your block, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.880 your family, your race, and we've kind of gotten away 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.720 from that, and sometimes I think, to our detriment, we 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.559 get away from the things that have kept us from 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.960 the times we were brought here in change. You know, 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.440 that's what kept us alive and moving. I tell my 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.360 daughter all the time, you know, you are a descendant 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.120 of the strongest of the strong because those that didn't 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.559 make it to die on the trip over here, that 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.800 that that killed themselves rather than to be enslaved, couldn't 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.040 carry on that legacy of greatness that we brought from Africa. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.080 And that's you know, that's our legacy, not not this 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.400 slave what was me people that Hollywood and the news 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.880 tries to portray on us. So you know, I brought 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.760 together forty plus of those, you know, our greatest of 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:26.240 great uh and and it jumps out of these pages. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.480 We know the thing about it when he says the 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.000 people of references has some of the names Stacy Abrahams, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.640 Harry Belafonte, Eric Holder, Charlemagne, the God, Michael, Eric Dyson, 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.400 Jamel Hill, Jana van zand you know uh Al Sharpton 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.360 t I a man being crump. You know what I 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.280 liked about it was that Maxine Waters can't forget about 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.240 her because she talks about you know, Trump and his 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.680 power for you know, not allowing people to show up 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:57.200 for the man. It almost felt like you this book 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.200 just got got pretty yesterday. It was just so her 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.560 and and so dead on and so relevant. You know. 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.960 Is this book had off the presses in the last 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.160 six months talking to everybody. Wow. And then I just 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.720 locked myself in the house man and put it on together. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.400 And that was the hardest part, Rashawn, is you know, 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.960 doing all these interviews and then kind of pulling things 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.720 out of interviews and putting it together so it would 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.520 sound like a conversation. Well, you know, because because especially 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.040 when you start talking about with max and Waters, because 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.120 she's talking about, you know, how Trump is denying people 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.120 to come to Congress and to be interviewed for potential 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.640 witnesses and and how he gets to do it that, 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.920 then it becomes you know, unprecedented power and people who 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.280 do that, then everybody who comes in after him is 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.400 going to do it as well, you know. So so 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.640 it becomes the fact that, you know, how, how did 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.760 Obama do enough or did Obama if he did that, 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.800 you know, like like DL said, if if Obama, you 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.920 probably put his on the post the controversy he had 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.040 as president, and you can probably put a volume in volume. 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.280 So it was just it was entertaining. I found humor 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:09.920 in it because of the fact that I'm a guy 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.080 who who lives in life, who's been exposed to this level. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.040 But I just felt it was an everyday read for 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.200 just a regular person who needs to be caught up. 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:19.400 And that's why, and that's why I wanted to write 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.080 it like a conversation. And sometimes these books become too 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.280 high prowed. There two inside baseball they talk about legislation 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.760 that people don't always understand the way it moves through 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.600 Congress and all of that, or you know, they take 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.360 a really academic look at the black mail, and well, 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.800 you know, that's great, and that's fine. But I wanted 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.880 this to be the conversation you have at your dinner 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.880 table and the barbershop and the car ride into the game, 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.840 whatever it may be. I wanted it to sound like that, 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.880 but I wanted it rather than with your cousin or 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.520 your neighbor or your barber. I wanted it to be 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.200 um a peek in or listening to the people that 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.640 are making a difference out there, and then to give 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.080 you the the standing that you have the power to 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.639 make a difference. And that's that's right. And I feel 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.840 that let me ask you this, because we talk about 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.040 you know that that black leadership, the black voice, you know, 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.360 because of social media, you know it is always tell 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.399 people what social media has changed how people communicate because 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.840 it's everybody's press conference. You don't need to have to 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.720 call a press conference posted. And I feel that in 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.720 some ways that has diminished exactly who is doing the 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.520 talking because the viral video can do the talking for 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.360 that particular subject matter. So has social media helped us 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.560 or diminished our ability to be organized? Yeah, I think 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.440 it's done both. I mean, let's let's face it. If 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.880 social media had been back in the day, King would 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.680 have had a Twitter page, King would had a Facebook page. 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:47.840 But what King would have done is he would have 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.680 put it up on Twitter and then hit the streets. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:51.600 What we have too many people doing is liking it 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.560 on Twitter, but forgetting to hit the streets, or forgetting 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:59.000 to stay off that bus, or forgetting to etcetera. Etcetera, etcetera. 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.360 You know, we've got to be honest about black leadership. 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.520 You know, I asked people in one of the chapters 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.080 on black leadership to grade black leadership. And you know, 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.480 when you say the leadership, you gotta put that in quote. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.919 So an entertainer can be a leadership, someone like Charlemagne 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:15.720 and God as a leader, he's got such a huge 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.119 platform and he moves forward. But when we look at 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:23.200 traditional leadership, leaders of civil rights organizations and the like, um, 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.960 you know, some people have been skeptical and not been 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.119 happy with the leadership we've received in the last twenty years. 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.199 I asked some people to give a grade to it, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.080 and not everyone gave, you know, high marks. I mean, 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.680 this book is very candid too. You know, it's not 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.720 just everybody patting one another on the back. But what 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.040 but what they don't do is they don't beat up 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.600 without offering solutions and without saying, hey, we've got to 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.040 have these people's backs. You know. The interesting thing about 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.360 it is that I'm talking to Edging his book Conversations 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.399 Uh in Black in Regards to History Stan in January fourteen. 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.600 Right now you can pre order it, Uh, can you 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.440 tell us how we can get the book other than 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.240 what I've been saying about it. Yeah, you can go 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.600 to ed Gordon dot net and their links there that 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.720 allow you to uh pre order the book or wherever 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.960 you normally order books, Amazon or Barns and Noble. But 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:15.919 the easiest way, and you'll learn a little bit more 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:17.920 about the book, is to go to ed Gordon dot 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.240 net and you can hit the link. It will take 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.400 you right to the page and you can pre order 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.880 the book. If you're too lazy to do that. January fourteen, 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.160 that's the day it hits the stores. If you don't 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.840 like to go on the computer, just wherever you buy 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.520 your books, get your books. It's a great present for 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.800 young people. I mean, we talk about the youth, We 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.160 talk about Nipsey Hustle in the chapter about black men 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.680 and all that. So it's uh, it's a little uh 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.760 something for everybody in this book. But I think and 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:48.800 hope that at the end of the day it will 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.120 be an important book and get us not only talking 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.919 but moving. Kevin, will you be doing a tour with 0:19:55.000 --> 0:20:01.520 the book autographs? Uh, we'll hit starting uh January four Um, 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.680 I'll do press in New York and uh uh d C. 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.320 And then we head out on the road. Uh. Kansas 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.679 City is our first stop. Um, and then we go 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.040 from there. So if people go to uh ed L. 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:23.040 Gordon at ed L Gordon on Twitter and Instagram and 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.000 on my face Facebook page, uh, you know, you can 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.080 follow where we're going throughout. So we're excited be heading 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.000 out west as well traveling the country. So we're trying 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:39.280 to get people to join the conversation, you know, have 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.159 a conversation in black and then get out there. We 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.840 need new narratives, we need everybody involved because at the 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.640 end of the day, particularly if Trump wins again haven forbid. Uh, 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.119 they're putting us all in the same boat, no pun intended. Absolutely, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.520 Conversations in Black. Ed Gordon book comes out of January. 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.639 Thank you for coming on the show. Get those banners 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.280 to make I want to promote your book too as well. Okay, well, 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:04.280 thank you, thank you. We talked soon.