1 00:00:00,190 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:31,110 Speaker 1: the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so 3 00:00:31,150 --> 00:00:34,910 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Our super producer, Max, is on 4 00:00:34,970 --> 00:00:38,770 Speaker 1: adventures out west, so we have to welcome the man, 5 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:45,540 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend, our co-sailor, our guest super producer, Mr. 6 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: Ben Hackett. 7 00:00:46,659 --> 00:00:48,730 Speaker 2: Everything's napping. 8 00:00:52,380 --> 00:00:54,500 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's also on the West Coast, weirdly enough. Not 9 00:00:54,540 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 3: sure how that worked out, but, man. Travel, airplanes. You 10 00:00:58,860 --> 00:01:01,860 Speaker 3: feel like we fly around in metal tubes in the sky? Dude, 11 00:01:02,220 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 3: I think about that a lot. 12 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:04,220 Speaker 2: By the way, I know you do. 13 00:01:04,580 --> 00:01:06,890 Speaker 3: I don't want to, you know, spread your business, but 14 00:01:06,910 --> 00:01:10,090 Speaker 3: I know you've been flying a lot for adventurous and 15 00:01:10,150 --> 00:01:12,209 Speaker 3: personal reasons, not just normal travel. 16 00:01:12,230 --> 00:01:13,290 Speaker 2: But I'll leave it at that, Ben. 17 00:01:13,330 --> 00:01:16,970 Speaker 3: But I did recently watch the second season of the 18 00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:20,810 Speaker 3: rehearsal for Nathan Fielder after I've had Nathan Fielder On 19 00:01:20,850 --> 00:01:24,950 Speaker 3: the brain, after seeing the incredible documentary, you can see everything. 20 00:01:26,330 --> 00:01:27,770 Speaker 2: I don't want to spoil it. I'm not going to 21 00:01:27,790 --> 00:01:30,490 Speaker 2: spoil it. But it's awesome. And it involves aviation and 22 00:01:30,569 --> 00:01:31,390 Speaker 2: aviation safety. 23 00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:34,030 Speaker 3: And somehow he makes that into a compelling comedy show 24 00:01:34,050 --> 00:01:38,300 Speaker 3: that also has, like, heart and civic responsibility. 25 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: And what a guy, Nathan. 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:46,259 Speaker 1: Yeah. And that is the legendary co-host, Mr. Noel Brown, 27 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,220 Speaker 1: the one and only, recently Felder-pilled, we could call it. 28 00:01:51,970 --> 00:01:53,690 Speaker 3: I've been on the Felder train for a hot minute. 29 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:56,110 Speaker 3: I was actually watching the rehearsal with my kid. And 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:01,220 Speaker 3: we realized kind of simultaneously that we've been watching Nathan 31 00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 3: For You since they. 32 00:02:02,620 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: Were like nine. 33 00:02:04,930 --> 00:02:09,250 Speaker 1: Oh, Nathan, for you, also a banger. They call me 34 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:10,930 Speaker 1: Ben Bullen and. 35 00:02:11,010 --> 00:02:12,510 Speaker 3: Did you go to one of the top business schools 36 00:02:12,550 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 3: in Canada and graduate with excellent grades? 37 00:02:16,590 --> 00:02:21,860 Speaker 1: I am still in negotiations with the beautiful government of 38 00:02:21,940 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: Canada on various fields, not fielders. And this one comes 39 00:02:26,940 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: to us thanks to our research associate, the legendary Wren. 40 00:02:33,100 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: This connection that we have all, I think, instinctively thought 41 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:40,060 Speaker 1: about but never really explored on this show, the connection 42 00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:43,389 Speaker 1: between Cold War era horror and sci-fi movies. 43 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:51,100 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, Ben. 44 00:02:51,139 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 3: It turns out that when the United States of America 45 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,690 Speaker 3: dropped the world's first atomic bomb, it not only killed 46 00:02:57,770 --> 00:03:01,870 Speaker 3: an estimated 100,000 men, women and children in Japan, but 47 00:03:01,889 --> 00:03:06,910 Speaker 3: it also had incredible impacts on geopolitics, created this whole 48 00:03:06,930 --> 00:03:09,530 Speaker 3: thing called the Cold War, basically, which was a situation 49 00:03:09,550 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 3: where everyone was sort of like, sitting on their hands 50 00:03:12,419 --> 00:03:15,100 Speaker 3: in fear of who may or may not drop the 51 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,410 Speaker 3: next atomic bomb. Geopolitics and all of that, but it 52 00:03:18,430 --> 00:03:22,350 Speaker 3: also had a massive impact on what I'm dubbing geopop culture. 53 00:03:22,930 --> 00:03:23,489 Speaker 1: There we go. 54 00:03:24,030 --> 00:03:24,510 Speaker 2: There we go. 55 00:03:24,530 --> 00:03:31,510 Speaker 1: And this leads to 40 years of waiting. This leads 56 00:03:31,570 --> 00:03:35,050 Speaker 1: to stuff like the Doomsday Clock, which our pal Jack 57 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: over on Daily Zeitgeist absolutely abhors. This led to everybody 58 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,339 Speaker 1: on the planet waiting for the end of the world. 59 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: And so, like all other art forms or forms of media, 60 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: the films and movies at the time reflect the sentiments 61 00:03:56,780 --> 00:03:59,860 Speaker 1: of the era in which they are created. The Cold 62 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:05,700 Speaker 1: War was so profoundly frightening, and it gave so many 63 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,550 Speaker 1: nations and cultures and communities a period of high anxiety, 64 00:04:10,690 --> 00:04:14,330 Speaker 1: particularly here in the United States. Now, some of our 65 00:04:14,430 --> 00:04:20,589 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians are mature or seasoned enough to remember 66 00:04:20,850 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: those high school drills or those classroom drills where you 67 00:04:26,220 --> 00:04:31,020 Speaker 1: would have to practice getting under your wooden desk in 68 00:04:31,060 --> 00:04:33,219 Speaker 1: the case of a nuclear bomb. 69 00:04:33,420 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: Duck and cover. That seems like that'll work out just fine. 70 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 3: I just remember, was it Yertle the turtle? There was 71 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 3: a cartoon character that demonstrated how to go about ducking 72 00:04:42,860 --> 00:04:44,790 Speaker 3: and covering. And I think a little song. 73 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: Yes, very much so. Yeah. And the, Cold War, we've 74 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,700 Speaker 1: talked about it both here and on our sister show, 75 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,340 Speaker 1: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know. It included, according 76 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:04,029 Speaker 1: to popcult.org, fear of the unknown fueled by accelerating technological advancement, 77 00:05:04,230 --> 00:05:08,350 Speaker 1: fear of foreign influence, and perhaps most strikingly, a growing 78 00:05:08,510 --> 00:05:14,210 Speaker 1: distrust of government authorities. Oh my, how history does rhyme. 79 00:05:14,230 --> 00:05:16,750 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. It's got bars for sure. 80 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:20,570 Speaker 3: And, you know, this didn't just extend to science fiction, 81 00:05:21,570 --> 00:05:24,290 Speaker 3: you know, kind of doomsday type scenarios in film, but 82 00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:28,529 Speaker 3: also lots of espionage films and books. And, you know, 83 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 3: I mean, it really did kind of birth a whole genre, 84 00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:35,220 Speaker 3: some based on very real things and some based on 85 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 3: super speculative and fantastical things. 86 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,860 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. This leads us to the ridiculous history of 87 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: how the Cold War happened. created some of the most 88 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: iconic science fiction and horror movie tropes, not just individual films, 89 00:05:52,940 --> 00:05:57,289 Speaker 1: but tropes of all time. Now, shout out to you, Ren, 90 00:05:57,580 --> 00:06:02,990 Speaker 1: for saying we can explore this section with our fellow 91 00:06:03,050 --> 00:06:07,090 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians on air, or we can just play We 92 00:06:07,150 --> 00:06:11,450 Speaker 1: Didn't Start the Fire by Billy Joel. We were advised 93 00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:15,870 Speaker 1: to take our pick, we checked with accounting, and we cannot, indeed, 94 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: afford the licensing rights for the entirety of We Didn't 95 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,140 Speaker 1: Start the Fire by Billy Joel. So, Noel, I guess 96 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,620 Speaker 1: we've got to talk about the Cold War without the song. 97 00:06:27,020 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: At its most base level, the Cold War conflict is 98 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:36,100 Speaker 1: summarized like this. Humanity now has the power to destroy 99 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: all known civilization. There are two big dogs in the fight. 100 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,900 Speaker 1: They are the United States and they are the Soviet Union. 101 00:06:44,430 --> 00:06:48,219 Speaker 1: And neither of them want to pull the trigger. They 102 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: both have the secret sauce that you need to manufacture 103 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,460 Speaker 1: nuclear Armageddon. They've got the uranium. They've got the plutonium. 104 00:06:58,020 --> 00:07:02,810 Speaker 1: And the United States is still actively testing this stuff, 105 00:07:02,930 --> 00:07:07,890 Speaker 1: as is the USSR, even after World War II. It's 106 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:11,870 Speaker 1: 1952 when the U.S. figures out how to successfully detonate 107 00:07:11,930 --> 00:07:17,370 Speaker 1: the first hydrogen bomb. And the Soviet Union is running scared. 108 00:07:17,710 --> 00:07:20,350 Speaker 1: They do not know how to make a hydrogen bomb. 109 00:07:21,210 --> 00:07:24,910 Speaker 1: This probably also, by the way, leads to the space 110 00:07:24,990 --> 00:07:29,390 Speaker 1: race because everybody's kind of swinging their pistols at each other. 111 00:07:29,410 --> 00:07:32,110 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite the standoff for sure. 112 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:34,540 Speaker 3: Everyone's kind of pointing their guns at each other and 113 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 3: no one wants to be the one to pull the 114 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 3: trigger because of a little thing called Mutually Assured Destruction. 115 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:48,270 Speaker 1: Yes, mutually assured destruction is a storied geopolitical theory that 116 00:07:48,350 --> 00:07:54,110 Speaker 1: says everybody who has a nuclear weapon knows that if 117 00:07:54,170 --> 00:07:57,310 Speaker 1: they deploy it, every other country that has a nuclear 118 00:07:57,350 --> 00:08:01,220 Speaker 1: weapon will immediately come for them. So if you want 119 00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: to keep the world as it is, you must. want 120 00:08:06,980 --> 00:08:10,060 Speaker 1: everybody to know that you have nukes, but you never, 121 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:15,550 Speaker 1: ever want to deploy them because it will assure the 122 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,970 Speaker 1: end of human civilization. And this is where we see 123 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:26,350 Speaker 1: everybody at the House Party picking sides, right? Because geopolitics 124 00:08:26,390 --> 00:08:29,330 Speaker 1: has only ever been a House Party with few resources. 125 00:08:29,850 --> 00:08:34,130 Speaker 1: So a bunch of countries rush by hook or by 126 00:08:34,210 --> 00:08:38,570 Speaker 1: crook to align with democracies with the United States being 127 00:08:38,650 --> 00:08:41,890 Speaker 1: kind of the alpha dog there, or to align with 128 00:08:41,910 --> 00:08:45,630 Speaker 1: the other side, communism. The big dog there is the 129 00:08:45,730 --> 00:08:49,100 Speaker 1: Soviet Union. We don't have to spend a bunch of 130 00:08:49,130 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: time relitigating the crooked moves both the U.S. and the 131 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,540 Speaker 1: USSR did to get their vassal countries, to get their 132 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: boys in the crew. But we do know that communist 133 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:09,350 Speaker 1: Cuba said they have nuclear weapons from Russia. And Cuba is, 134 00:09:09,690 --> 00:09:12,730 Speaker 1: as we know, famously just 90 miles or so from 135 00:09:12,750 --> 00:09:17,700 Speaker 1: the shores of the United States. Cuba says these weapons 136 00:09:17,860 --> 00:09:22,260 Speaker 1: are aimed at Florida. This creates the Cuban Missile Crisis. 137 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,540 Speaker 1: A guy named President John F. Kennedy, who will later 138 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:31,300 Speaker 1: have a Orders something called the Bay of Pigs invasion. 139 00:09:31,580 --> 00:09:36,540 Speaker 1: It's meant to overthrow the communist friendly government of Cuba. 140 00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:43,610 Speaker 1: That mission fails. And later historians will discover that Kennedy 141 00:09:43,670 --> 00:09:46,870 Speaker 1: was not super on board with the Bay of Pigs invasion. 142 00:09:47,380 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: No, he wasn't. 143 00:09:48,580 --> 00:09:51,900 Speaker 3: He was definitely quite focused, however, on the space race 144 00:09:51,980 --> 00:09:55,530 Speaker 3: between the United States and the Soviet Union. And unless 145 00:09:55,550 --> 00:09:59,610 Speaker 3: you're one of these folks that believes Stanley Kubrick directed 146 00:09:59,650 --> 00:10:02,100 Speaker 3: The Moon. landing or that he was just, you know, 147 00:10:02,460 --> 00:10:06,820 Speaker 3: such a stickler for details and realism that he actually 148 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,059 Speaker 3: went so far as to, you know, just making a 149 00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 3: moon landing happen so he could film it, which is hilarious. 150 00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: U.S. 151 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: Astronaut Neil Armstrong, of course, not to be confused with 152 00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 3: Lance Armstrong, who apparently was married to Sheryl Crow. 153 00:10:19,380 --> 00:10:20,140 Speaker 2: I had no idea. 154 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 3: This guy became the first person, whether you believe it 155 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,059 Speaker 3: or not, to walk on the moon. 156 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:27,579 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 157 00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:31,850 Speaker 1: So this is a time of great fortune and wonder. 158 00:10:31,950 --> 00:10:36,770 Speaker 1: This is also a time of great crisis. While all 159 00:10:36,809 --> 00:10:40,770 Speaker 1: this space race stuff is happening and while these two 160 00:10:41,790 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: hegemonic superpowers are trying not to end the world, There's 161 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: a funny instance of division in Europe. In post-World War 162 00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:56,270 Speaker 1: II Europe, there's an iron curtain, we call it. It 163 00:10:56,370 --> 00:11:00,650 Speaker 1: splits Germany square in half. West Berlin is democratic. East 164 00:11:00,690 --> 00:11:03,610 Speaker 1: Berlin is communist. I do have a piece of the 165 00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: Berlin Wall, which is weird. This Berlin Wall splits the 166 00:11:09,140 --> 00:11:13,910 Speaker 1: territory to avoid any confusion. At this time, toward the 167 00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:19,300 Speaker 1: end of the Iron Curtain Age, U.S. President Ronald Reagan, 168 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: who was an actor beforehand and not qualified to hold office, 169 00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:26,700 Speaker 1: as well as Mikhail Gorbachev, who was the president of 170 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:27,700 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. 171 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: They got tired of this. 172 00:11:29,780 --> 00:11:33,350 Speaker 1: They were like, why do we keep waving our guns around? 173 00:11:33,470 --> 00:11:36,270 Speaker 1: Why do we keep having these proxy wars? Why do 174 00:11:36,309 --> 00:11:41,050 Speaker 1: we essentially keep fighting over who's going to shoot first? 175 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,070 Speaker 1: And so it came to pass in 1989, Reagan and 176 00:11:45,130 --> 00:11:50,470 Speaker 1: Gorbachev say, we're going to demolish the Berlin Wall. You 177 00:11:50,510 --> 00:11:54,370 Speaker 1: might be old enough to remember, folks, the famous statements 178 00:11:54,429 --> 00:11:58,340 Speaker 1: of President Reagan. Tear down that wall. 179 00:11:59,179 --> 00:12:03,020 Speaker 2: Mr. Gorbachev, right? Did he say Mr. Gorbachev? He said Mr. Gorbachev. 180 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: And they slowed the Cold War down to a halt. 181 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: They repaired a lot of the tense relationships between the 182 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,780 Speaker 1: United States and Russia for a time, not for the current. 183 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: No, it would not seem so. 184 00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:25,590 Speaker 3: So while all the theatrics and geopolitical displays playing out 185 00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:31,270 Speaker 3: on a macro level were happening, the common American citizen 186 00:12:32,170 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: continued living in constant fear of nuclear holocausts. According to 187 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,100 Speaker 3: the Centers for Disease Control, in a nuclear blast, injury 188 00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 3: or death may occur as a result of the blast 189 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,260 Speaker 3: itself or as a result of debris thrown from the blast. 190 00:12:47,540 --> 00:12:52,290 Speaker 3: Doesn't look like they mentioned the concept of fallout either. 191 00:12:52,309 --> 00:12:55,090 Speaker 3: That is another, a third way that people can die 192 00:12:55,390 --> 00:12:57,229 Speaker 3: slowly and painfully over time. 193 00:12:57,290 --> 00:12:59,870 Speaker 2: But, you know, your results may vary. It goes on. 194 00:12:59,929 --> 00:13:02,730 Speaker 3: You may experience moderate to severe skin burns depending on 195 00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:05,450 Speaker 3: your distance from the blast site. Looking directly at the 196 00:13:05,490 --> 00:13:08,570 Speaker 3: blast could cause eye damage ranging from temporary blindness to 197 00:13:08,610 --> 00:13:10,690 Speaker 3: severe burns of the retina. 198 00:13:11,309 --> 00:13:14,290 Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's take a second here to really paint 199 00:13:14,330 --> 00:13:17,910 Speaker 1: the picture. If you check out our earlier episode from 200 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, Could I Survive 201 00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:26,270 Speaker 1: a Nuclear War? You are going to learn that... Within 202 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: five miles of a one megaton bomb, you will get 203 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,059 Speaker 1: hit with third degree burns. And within seven miles, which 204 00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:37,059 Speaker 1: is far away, you'll still get first degree burns depending 205 00:13:37,140 --> 00:13:39,980 Speaker 1: on your clothing. So you are going to be in 206 00:13:40,020 --> 00:13:46,030 Speaker 1: a crisis with very little time to react. This is serious, heavy, 207 00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:50,530 Speaker 1: heavy stuff. And this is where we go to learnaboutnukes.com. 208 00:13:51,050 --> 00:13:55,369 Speaker 1: Learnaboutnukes.com is a source of arguing that the reality of 209 00:13:55,429 --> 00:14:00,429 Speaker 1: a nuclear explosion looks more like this. Maybe we go 210 00:14:00,470 --> 00:14:03,929 Speaker 1: back and forth here. First, they say, quote, everything in 211 00:14:03,970 --> 00:14:07,530 Speaker 1: the place where the bomb explodes, crumbles and burns. What 212 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: remains is smoke, gases and small particles that rise into 213 00:14:12,059 --> 00:14:15,239 Speaker 1: the air and a mushroom like cloud is formed. This 214 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,340 Speaker 1: is the ground zero stuff where shadows can get imprinted 215 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:20,260 Speaker 1: onto stone. 216 00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:24,479 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, and we all know the archival footage of 217 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,180 Speaker 3: those mushroom clouds, really chilling stuff, going on shortly afterwards, 218 00:14:29,220 --> 00:14:31,850 Speaker 3: the shockwave arrives. The shockwave is so violent that it 219 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:35,350 Speaker 3: smashes houses and crushes people many kilometers away. 220 00:14:36,810 --> 00:14:40,770 Speaker 1: And then within a certain distance from the explosion site, 221 00:14:41,150 --> 00:14:45,340 Speaker 1: the thermal radiation has such a high temperature that practically 222 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: anyone Everything is vaporized. No stone stands on another. 223 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: A nuclear explosion releases large amounts of radiation. 224 00:14:53,980 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 3: Here's a part that the CDC didn't quite get to 225 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: in their brief assessment. A large dose of radiation can 226 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,020 Speaker 3: kill a person instantly. Exposure to a slightly smaller amount 227 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,350 Speaker 3: causes acute radiation sickness, a very serious illness that leads 228 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,790 Speaker 3: to slow death, as I mentioned, after days or years 229 00:15:09,190 --> 00:15:09,830 Speaker 3: of suffering. 230 00:15:11,050 --> 00:15:16,890 Speaker 1: With long-tail consequences yet to come. Because radiation can contaminate 231 00:15:16,950 --> 00:15:21,530 Speaker 1: such large areas of land in a nuclear explosion, they're 232 00:15:21,570 --> 00:15:27,490 Speaker 1: sowing the ground with radioactive salt, right? Agriculture is impossible 233 00:15:27,550 --> 00:15:32,510 Speaker 1: for years, even decades afterward. Most importantly, and this is 234 00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: something a lot of people didn't realize until after those 235 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,070 Speaker 1: two bombs were deployed in Nagasaki and Hiroshima in Japan– 236 00:15:42,050 --> 00:15:46,110 Speaker 1: Exposure to this can cause genetic damage. It can lead 237 00:15:46,170 --> 00:15:50,500 Speaker 1: to children who are totally innocent being born with some 238 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: horrific defects. 239 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: For sure. 240 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 3: And yeah, I maybe wouldn't recommend this. I know we've 241 00:15:56,580 --> 00:15:57,820 Speaker 3: talked about it on stuff we don't want you to 242 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: know and possibly on Ridiculous History. But if you want 243 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:08,410 Speaker 3: a pretty intense, beautiful, tragic and graphic depiction of what 244 00:16:08,530 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 3: this might look like for children, you know, folks experiencing. 245 00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:16,580 Speaker 3: Check out the animated film, Grave of the Fireflies. Also, 246 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 3: Barefoot Jen is one that's even more horrific in its depictions. 247 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,220 Speaker 3: Grave of the Fireflies is more about like the long, 248 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,980 Speaker 3: you know, tail consequences you were talking about. And Barefoot Jen, 249 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,730 Speaker 3: really some of the most shocking kind of uses of 250 00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:31,090 Speaker 3: animation I've ever seen where it actually shows what happens 251 00:16:31,190 --> 00:16:32,530 Speaker 3: upon that direct impact. 252 00:16:33,150 --> 00:16:33,450 Speaker 2: Right. 253 00:16:33,730 --> 00:16:39,150 Speaker 1: And this also influenced Kurosawa, who would talk about nuclear 254 00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: weaponry in a more metaphorical way, perhaps, but we also, 255 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: of course, know this leads to the Godzilla franchise. 256 00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:57,650 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, frankly, Ben, and I think you'd agree, 257 00:16:57,830 --> 00:17:02,970 Speaker 3: it led to a massive amount of what Japan became, 258 00:17:03,710 --> 00:17:07,870 Speaker 3: both sociologically, technologically, and pop-culturally. 259 00:17:08,109 --> 00:17:09,689 Speaker 2: I mean, just the shadow. 260 00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:13,830 Speaker 3: Of nuclear war is something that you'll find, you know, 261 00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:18,189 Speaker 3: mentions of or remnants of in all kinds of Japanese media. 262 00:17:18,290 --> 00:17:21,580 Speaker 3: You know, anime, Akira, for example, you know, all kinds 263 00:17:21,619 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 3: of stuff like that. It really shaped their cultural identity 264 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 3: in many ways in the rebirth that happened after they 265 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 3: emerged from this tragic event. 266 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:37,010 Speaker 1: So just the fact that a culture survived, Such a 267 00:17:37,210 --> 00:17:41,110 Speaker 1: horrific event. And as you know, we talked about off 268 00:17:41,170 --> 00:17:46,100 Speaker 1: air before, I have visited the Hiroshima Peace Museum and 269 00:17:46,220 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: spent some time in that town in particular. And I 270 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,179 Speaker 1: do want to get past the stereotype that some of 271 00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:56,899 Speaker 1: us may have in the West. Hiroshima is perfectly safe 272 00:17:56,940 --> 00:17:59,580 Speaker 1: to visit. They actually have great seafood, by the way, 273 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:06,250 Speaker 1: as well. So the times have moved on. But in 274 00:18:06,330 --> 00:18:10,550 Speaker 1: the wake of these immediate bombings through the Cold War, 275 00:18:10,910 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: people in America, Jane and Johnny Blue Jeans, are rightly terrified. 276 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,740 Speaker 1: And The public health officials are telling them stuff about 277 00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:22,900 Speaker 1: their survival odds, and they're saying to kids, you know, 278 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: get under your little wooden desk. But everybody with half 279 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:30,649 Speaker 1: a brain cell knows an explosion of this magnitude in 280 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:36,750 Speaker 1: the wrong place is going to cause irrevocable damage and consequence. 281 00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:41,629 Speaker 1: So when you were growing up in this time, and Noel, 282 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:43,330 Speaker 1: you and I have talked to people who grew up 283 00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:47,619 Speaker 1: during this period in the States. They were taught to 284 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,780 Speaker 1: live in a culture of fear the constant threat that 285 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: a nuclear bomb could drop any single day and some 286 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,270 Speaker 1: this is where we also see a proliferation of homemade 287 00:19:00,470 --> 00:19:05,189 Speaker 1: bunkers where families are like hardening their basements and saying 288 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:07,330 Speaker 1: you know we've got to hide somewhere. 289 00:19:07,470 --> 00:19:11,770 Speaker 3: Yeah fallout shelters uh bespoke you know ones that have 290 00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:14,929 Speaker 3: like you know wet bars and uh game rooms and 291 00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:16,950 Speaker 3: things like that for folks that maybe were a little 292 00:19:16,970 --> 00:19:20,750 Speaker 3: more on the wealthy side, because this also coincided with 293 00:19:20,790 --> 00:19:24,850 Speaker 3: like kind of that era of American prosperity and like 294 00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:28,490 Speaker 3: the American dream. And there's this interesting crossover between that 295 00:19:28,590 --> 00:19:32,449 Speaker 3: fear you're describing and this whole like, you know, Sears 296 00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: catalog image of Americana. 297 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,930 Speaker 1: Right. 2.5 kids. a car, hey, two cars, right? Own 298 00:19:39,950 --> 00:19:42,540 Speaker 1: your own home as long as the bombs don't drop. 299 00:19:42,650 --> 00:19:46,300 Speaker 1: And we cannot forget another piece of cultural context here 300 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:52,260 Speaker 1: that also informs science fiction films. the Red Scare. A 301 00:19:52,420 --> 00:19:58,379 Speaker 1: lot of people, especially educators, especially some local politicians and 302 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:04,250 Speaker 1: by far targeted Hollywood elites, they lost their careers as 303 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:08,270 Speaker 1: a result of this movement led by Senator Joseph McCarthy, 304 00:20:08,890 --> 00:20:11,870 Speaker 1: a notoriously conservative unhinged person. 305 00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:13,010 Speaker 2: Kidding. 306 00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:16,949 Speaker 1: He was unhinged. This movement was meant to ferret out 307 00:20:17,170 --> 00:20:21,810 Speaker 1: anybody they thought could be a hidden communist sympathizer, colluding 308 00:20:21,890 --> 00:20:25,930 Speaker 1: with the Soviet Union, maybe as a spy, maybe doing propaganda, 309 00:20:26,010 --> 00:20:32,540 Speaker 1: maybe doing disinfo. The really anxious parts of the U.S. 310 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:39,330 Speaker 1: military apparatus were understood that media could function as a 311 00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:43,590 Speaker 1: new theater of war. So they were very concerned about 312 00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:47,450 Speaker 1: who is writing a play that seems a little too socialist, 313 00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: a little too communist, and how can we punish them? 314 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing too, man. 315 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,260 Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, it's not like it's that far 316 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,180 Speaker 3: off from what we're experiencing now with this idea of like, 317 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,900 Speaker 3: Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. Like, I mean, that 318 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:04,669 Speaker 3: fear of nuclear apocalypse and, you know, the idea of 319 00:21:04,970 --> 00:21:09,659 Speaker 3: an enemy having a nuclear weapon or nuclear capabilities continues 320 00:21:09,740 --> 00:21:13,460 Speaker 3: to be like a politically kind of hot issue that, 321 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,780 Speaker 3: if we're being honest, is often weaponized in its own right. 322 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 323 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 324 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:18,980 Speaker 2: Yeah. 325 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,940 Speaker 1: It's a hot potato that gets weaponized by cynical opportunists. 326 00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:25,500 Speaker 1: This is where we go to the point of our episode. 327 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,899 Speaker 1: What does define Cold War sci-fi and horror film? I 328 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,010 Speaker 1: love this stuff. I know you do, too. The horror 329 00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:39,310 Speaker 1: and sci-fi films of the Cold War era, per the Smithsonian, contain, quote, 330 00:21:39,690 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: phantoms from space, invaders from Mars, strangers from Venus, invasions 331 00:21:45,300 --> 00:21:49,300 Speaker 1: of sorcerer men, monsters challenging the world, zombies of the stratosphere, 332 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,190 Speaker 1: invisible invaders, even children, husband and teenagers from outer space. 333 00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:56,460 Speaker 1: You know, it goes on. 334 00:21:56,940 --> 00:22:00,500 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of often these are quite silly. 335 00:22:00,580 --> 00:22:03,140 Speaker 3: Many of them like Plan 9 from outer space, you know, 336 00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:04,609 Speaker 3: Edward and all of that. 337 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,889 Speaker 2: And many of them are like, as you mentioned. 338 00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:10,750 Speaker 3: Like the the cat people from Venus and things like that. 339 00:22:10,810 --> 00:22:13,690 Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, they are trying 340 00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:16,310 Speaker 3: to kind of articulate whether they knew it or not, 341 00:22:16,670 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 3: this fear of of an other and of of. foreign 342 00:22:20,940 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 3: technology or technology that is beyond our understanding or this 343 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,790 Speaker 3: idea of total world annihilation, you know? 344 00:22:29,869 --> 00:22:34,870 Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed and well put because we also see that space, 345 00:22:35,150 --> 00:22:39,930 Speaker 1: outer space, is a hugely common setting for these films 346 00:22:40,090 --> 00:22:44,170 Speaker 1: because of the space race we mentioned earlier. Everybody, well, 347 00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:47,020 Speaker 1: two big nations are trying to be the first on 348 00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:51,179 Speaker 1: the moon and before the space race, no human being 349 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: that we can verify has ever been beyond the bounds 350 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,980 Speaker 1: of Earth's atmosphere. So the possibilities of what could be 351 00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,220 Speaker 1: lurking out there in the ink between the stars was endless. 352 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,870 Speaker 1: Space travel created new technology, and the common person didn't 353 00:23:07,890 --> 00:23:10,530 Speaker 1: really understand it. There's a lot of math involved. It's 354 00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:13,949 Speaker 1: very expensive. And you have to start thinking, well, if 355 00:23:14,050 --> 00:23:18,870 Speaker 1: we humans, we humble humans, can build a rocket, what 356 00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: advanced technology might some other alien civilization possess, right? 357 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,940 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Red Scare certainly didn't help matters. 358 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:35,010 Speaker 3: It further contributed to that fear of an invasion of aliens, 359 00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:39,620 Speaker 3: you know, communists, who could be Living amongst us like 360 00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:42,660 Speaker 3: invasion of the body snatcher style, you know, God fearing 361 00:23:43,420 --> 00:23:48,950 Speaker 3: all American footballer, you know, suburbia dwellers. 362 00:23:48,410 --> 00:23:49,629 Speaker 2: Of the 1950s. 363 00:23:50,850 --> 00:23:52,790 Speaker 3: All of a sudden we're being affected by this. Maybe 364 00:23:52,810 --> 00:23:54,770 Speaker 3: not all of a sudden, but it just, you know, escalated. 365 00:23:55,090 --> 00:23:58,409 Speaker 3: So your neighbor could potentially and this isn't to say 366 00:23:58,430 --> 00:24:00,110 Speaker 3: this isn't this didn't happen. 367 00:24:00,150 --> 00:24:01,870 Speaker 2: And if you've seen I know you have been the 368 00:24:02,250 --> 00:24:02,990 Speaker 2: incredibly powerful. 369 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,899 Speaker 3: Powerful TV series, The Americans, there were communist spies who 370 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: were living next door to, you know, Jane and Johnny 371 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,220 Speaker 3: Blue Jeans, as you put it, Ben. This is a 372 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,310 Speaker 3: very real threat. But it was also overblown and played up. 373 00:24:16,550 --> 00:24:19,010 Speaker 3: And then the Red Scare of it all became this like, 374 00:24:19,790 --> 00:24:25,100 Speaker 3: I don't know, this theater of oppression by our own government. 375 00:24:25,420 --> 00:24:27,700 Speaker 3: And a lot of folks that absolutely were not that 376 00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 3: thing got wrapped up in that witch hunt. 377 00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:35,550 Speaker 1: Yeah, and witch hunt is an appropriate term here. We 378 00:24:35,609 --> 00:24:39,150 Speaker 1: see it happening now because, yeah, there are sleeper agents 379 00:24:39,530 --> 00:24:44,070 Speaker 1: in the United States, in many countries. That is a reality, 380 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:48,780 Speaker 1: but it was overblown and it was monetized by big Hollywood. 381 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: Now they were at the point where they were saying, 382 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:58,899 Speaker 1: let's speak to the overall fear of infiltration and aliens and. 383 00:25:00,420 --> 00:25:05,890 Speaker 1: Scary technology by having stuff like mutated insects or beasts 384 00:25:06,130 --> 00:25:09,910 Speaker 1: awakened from the depths of the sea. Cough, cough. 385 00:25:10,910 --> 00:25:14,730 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, what is Godzilla? If not, we should 386 00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:16,670 Speaker 3: talk a little bit, Ben. I know that you're such 387 00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:20,270 Speaker 3: a student of this kind of fiction, but H.P. Lovecraft 388 00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:24,250 Speaker 3: kind of was early to the game on this kind 389 00:25:24,290 --> 00:25:28,110 Speaker 3: of stuff. in terms of like monsters from the depths and, 390 00:25:28,410 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 3: you know, irradiated meteors containing goo that would infect, you know, humans, right? 391 00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:36,820 Speaker 2: Like color out of space. 392 00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 3: This was all well before these kind of communist red 393 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,609 Speaker 3: scare and nuclear fears. 394 00:25:42,330 --> 00:25:49,020 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Cosmic horror. The idea that the is vast, chasmic, 395 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,700 Speaker 1: and uncaring, and that the monsters or the things that 396 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: humans see as the bad guys are so alien as 397 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:02,780 Speaker 1: to be incomprehensible. And Lovecraft does get a lot more 398 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: gas in his tank during the Cold War era. era 399 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: of fear film and fear media uh. 400 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,900 Speaker 3: In terms of his stuff becoming like really relevant right 401 00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:14,580 Speaker 3: right like like sort of a renewed interest or maybe 402 00:26:14,619 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 3: even like was he really popular at the time it 403 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,830 Speaker 3: seems like he was almost rediscovered uh you know a 404 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,510 Speaker 3: little bit later like after he. 405 00:26:22,550 --> 00:26:25,730 Speaker 1: Passed yeah he became and this is the curse of 406 00:26:25,930 --> 00:26:31,230 Speaker 1: writers uh he became more popular posthumously Uh, because people 407 00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:33,510 Speaker 1: were looking back at his work and they were saying, yeah, 408 00:26:33,530 --> 00:26:36,950 Speaker 1: it's perfect. And yeah, he's super racist, but he was. 409 00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: The name of the cat in one of his stories. 410 00:26:39,020 --> 00:26:41,780 Speaker 1: I know that was his cat in real life, but 411 00:26:41,820 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: really was it? Yes. Yeah. Uh, this is also where 412 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,379 Speaker 1: we see the emergence of a monster called the zombie 413 00:26:50,980 --> 00:26:54,899 Speaker 1: coming big to a theater near you. Uh, and, A 414 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,700 Speaker 1: lot of people are going to argue, a lot of 415 00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: film boffins and professional film critics are going to argue 416 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:07,430 Speaker 1: that the folkloric concept of the zombie found new unlife, 417 00:27:08,109 --> 00:27:13,110 Speaker 1: new popularity, because people knew what happened when bombs dropped. 418 00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:17,149 Speaker 1: They had seen pictures of survivors, and they knew that 419 00:27:17,170 --> 00:27:21,170 Speaker 1: there would be long-term ramifications to the environment and to 420 00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:26,460 Speaker 1: the physical health of future generations. That's why the corpses 421 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:32,050 Speaker 1: in George Romero's 1968 film Night of the Living Dead 422 00:27:32,369 --> 00:27:37,350 Speaker 1: are reanimated by radiation from an exploding space probe. That's 423 00:27:37,390 --> 00:27:41,130 Speaker 1: why we also later have things like Night of the Comet, 424 00:27:41,270 --> 00:27:42,109 Speaker 1: if you remember that one. 425 00:27:42,810 --> 00:27:46,330 Speaker 2: Night of the Comet. Who were the baddies in that one? 426 00:27:46,369 --> 00:27:47,490 Speaker 2: That was another one about. 427 00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:50,710 Speaker 3: Just like a celestial piece of debris hitting the Earth 428 00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:54,790 Speaker 3: and birthing some sort of. you know, the demonic other, right? 429 00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:59,090 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's much later. It's 1984. Night of the Comet 430 00:27:59,250 --> 00:28:06,970 Speaker 1: essentially has an unexplained comet that gets close to Earth 431 00:28:07,490 --> 00:28:11,030 Speaker 1: every 65 million years or so. So the idea or 432 00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:13,490 Speaker 1: the lore of the film is that 65 million years 433 00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:14,470 Speaker 1: before the film begins. 434 00:28:19,450 --> 00:28:23,210 Speaker 1: The comet got close, it wiped out the dinosaurs, and 435 00:28:23,230 --> 00:28:28,710 Speaker 1: this time it is returning, and everybody who is standing 436 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: out in the open dies, everybody who's somewhat exposed to 437 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: the radiation of the comet becomes a zombie-esque monster. So 438 00:28:37,780 --> 00:28:43,470 Speaker 1: these fears still carry forward, and we wanted to take 439 00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: some time and recommend a couple of sci-fi, Cold War 440 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: horror films, and with great thanks to our research associate, Ren, 441 00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: he kind of categorized them into what they count as. 442 00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:11,020 Speaker 1: One of our mutual favorites, Noel, is Dr. Strangelove, or 443 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,700 Speaker 1: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. 444 00:29:13,860 --> 00:29:20,690 Speaker 1: That's from 1964. That is leveraging the growing distrust of government. 445 00:29:20,910 --> 00:29:23,340 Speaker 3: For sure and that is its own thing i mean 446 00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: honestly it uh in many ways satirizes a lot of 447 00:29:27,220 --> 00:29:29,020 Speaker 3: the types of films that we're talking about here that 448 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,459 Speaker 3: were a little more on the schlocky side uh in 449 00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:33,570 Speaker 3: the way that it is filmed uh in the way 450 00:29:33,610 --> 00:29:35,690 Speaker 3: that it's portrayed and then some of the sort of 451 00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 3: outsized almost caricature, you know, personalities of some of the 452 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,020 Speaker 3: main characters in the film. They're almost these like weird 453 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 3: stock character types that may as well have names like, 454 00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 3: I mean, Dr. Strangelove, that guy was ultimately like a 455 00:29:52,020 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 3: secret Nazi working for the U.S. 456 00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: Government. 457 00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:57,500 Speaker 3: I think, doesn't the movie end with him like accidentally 458 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: doing an involuntary Heil Hitler? Yeah. 459 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,260 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like Elon Musk, he probably said it was accidental. 460 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 2: He was just throwing his heart out to the people. Sure, yes, 461 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: our hearts go out to you. 462 00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:16,010 Speaker 1: Then we've got films like Them! 1954, that's about nuclear radiation. 463 00:30:16,050 --> 00:30:20,990 Speaker 1: Of course, Godzilla or Gojira, 1954. And then some really 464 00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:24,710 Speaker 1: fun ones, man. Like, remember Attack of the 50-Foot Woman? 465 00:30:25,610 --> 00:30:29,390 Speaker 2: Yeah, it says it all in the title. Not to mention... 466 00:30:29,740 --> 00:30:31,590 Speaker 2: been Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. 467 00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:32,730 Speaker 3: Ah, yes. 468 00:30:34,050 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 2: That was like early 80s. 469 00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:38,030 Speaker 3: And you also have sort of like a second wave 470 00:30:38,110 --> 00:30:40,870 Speaker 3: of all of this kind of stuff that is essentially 471 00:30:41,070 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 3: like a lot of the Roger Corman films, you know, 472 00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:47,239 Speaker 3: that are kind of taking cues from some of this 473 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,130 Speaker 3: original kind of borderline propagandistic kind of vibes, but, like, 474 00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:55,370 Speaker 3: taking it in a new and more ridiculous direction. Then 475 00:30:55,410 --> 00:30:58,390 Speaker 3: you have, like, The Thing from Another Planet, which ultimately 476 00:30:58,450 --> 00:31:02,990 Speaker 3: became one of the great, you know, invader-type movies. Just 477 00:31:03,170 --> 00:31:06,260 Speaker 3: The Thing by John Carpenter, which is more from, I 478 00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:08,950 Speaker 3: believe that's the late 70s, if not the very early 80s. 479 00:31:09,220 --> 00:31:10,420 Speaker 1: Still Cold War, man. 480 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: It's very cold, too. 481 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 3: It takes place on, like, an Alaskan research station, or Antarctic, 482 00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:16,370 Speaker 3: I want to say. 483 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,310 Speaker 1: And if we ask Vladimir Putin, of course, the cold 484 00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:22,410 Speaker 1: war never ended. You also see stuff like the day 485 00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:26,030 Speaker 1: the earth stood still. That was a great one. And we, 486 00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:28,630 Speaker 1: we didn't mention this is a little bit outside of 487 00:31:28,670 --> 00:31:31,510 Speaker 1: the scope of this episode, but to your point about Lovecraft, 488 00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: we also see a great deal of sci-fi literature exploring 489 00:31:37,690 --> 00:31:41,820 Speaker 1: the same ideas. And then they later get adapted to 490 00:31:42,060 --> 00:31:46,209 Speaker 1: works of film. Uh, The moral here, I think, is 491 00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:52,340 Speaker 1: somewhat prescient, somewhat forward-looking. If you check out the films 492 00:31:52,450 --> 00:31:55,980 Speaker 1: that are coming out around this time as we record, 493 00:31:57,220 --> 00:32:01,940 Speaker 1: almost as we record on the edge of Halloween 2026, Noel, 494 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,739 Speaker 1: I bet a lot of us in the audience are 495 00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:10,330 Speaker 1: going to find some other commonalities, right? They're going to 496 00:32:10,410 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: find that there are films that being made now that 497 00:32:14,940 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: reflect cultural concerns in the current zeitgeist. For sure. 498 00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:21,060 Speaker 3: And just to add really quickly before we jump even 499 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,110 Speaker 3: further into that, Ben, I mean, let's not forget the 500 00:32:23,170 --> 00:32:26,209 Speaker 3: Cold War extended well into the 80s. I mean, so 501 00:32:26,250 --> 00:32:29,630 Speaker 3: you had like even third wave, I could argue, maybe 502 00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:32,490 Speaker 3: one might call it, examples of these types of films 503 00:32:32,530 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 3: that got a lot sharper and more, you know, culturally poignant. 504 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: And really became almost their own kind of form of critique. 505 00:32:40,660 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 2: of this kind of stuff. 506 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,500 Speaker 3: Whereas, you know, I mean, it's easy to poo-poo some 507 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,500 Speaker 3: of these early flying saucer movies as just kind of 508 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,450 Speaker 3: being schlock. What they represented was the zeitgeist of this 509 00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:55,790 Speaker 3: kind of fear of an outsider, an invading force, or 510 00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:58,710 Speaker 3: this kind of, like, you know, the danger surrounding technology 511 00:32:58,830 --> 00:33:00,890 Speaker 3: or the mysteries of what's out in space as being 512 00:33:00,930 --> 00:33:03,020 Speaker 3: stand-ins for very real fears. 513 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,300 Speaker 2: But, like, the late Cold War. 514 00:33:05,890 --> 00:33:10,300 Speaker 3: continued with that fear of invasion, distrust of institutions. And 515 00:33:10,580 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 3: just to mention one more time, The Thing, which did 516 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,420 Speaker 3: come out in 1982, I don't know why I thought 517 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,580 Speaker 3: it was, I wasn't that far out, late 70s, early 80s, 518 00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:21,450 Speaker 3: I believe I said. It's his remake of, Carpenter's remake 519 00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:24,930 Speaker 3: of one of these earlier examples of what we're talking 520 00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:29,140 Speaker 3: about that is both Lovecraftian and this... Cold War kind 521 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 3: of era fear, the thing from another world from 1951, 522 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,940 Speaker 3: which involves a group of scientists and military folks discovering 523 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,700 Speaker 3: an extraterrestrial, like, shape-shifting organism in the Arctic. So you 524 00:33:41,740 --> 00:33:45,790 Speaker 3: really do have kind of like this recurring theme, sometimes 525 00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:48,350 Speaker 3: in the form of superior remakes. 526 00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:54,350 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You see the tropes proliferate, dare I say, metastasize. 527 00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:57,130 Speaker 2: The original Body Snatchers movie was in 1956, after all. 528 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then, of course, you see things that don't 529 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,590 Speaker 1: bother with metaphors at all, like 1984's Red Dawn. Which 530 00:34:06,730 --> 00:34:09,450 Speaker 1: is 100% about communist forces. 531 00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:11,469 Speaker 3: Ben, I swear to God, I think I must have 532 00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:14,410 Speaker 3: confused it with Red Sonja, but I only just recently 533 00:34:14,489 --> 00:34:17,850 Speaker 3: realized that Red Dawn is about, like, what if the 534 00:34:17,950 --> 00:34:18,990 Speaker 3: Russians won? 535 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,380 Speaker 2: And it, like, is also kind of like. 536 00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:26,540 Speaker 3: A buddy movie with, like, a Goonies-level sort of camaraderie. 537 00:34:26,620 --> 00:34:27,730 Speaker 2: Like, who's in it? 538 00:34:27,739 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 3: There's some famous young actors from the time that are 539 00:34:30,660 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 3: in Red Dawn. It looks awful, but I really do 540 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,210 Speaker 3: kind of want to see it. We got Charlie Sheen, 541 00:34:36,590 --> 00:34:42,430 Speaker 3: Patrick Swayze, Jennifer Gray, C. Thomas Howell, Leah Thompson, and 542 00:34:42,469 --> 00:34:43,870 Speaker 3: our old buddy Powers Booth. 543 00:34:44,739 --> 00:34:45,420 Speaker 1: Ah, Powers. 544 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: He always played like. 545 00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:51,390 Speaker 3: A gnarly kind of grizzled military commander type, you know, 546 00:34:51,530 --> 00:34:52,310 Speaker 3: or G-Man. 547 00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:53,469 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 548 00:34:53,550 --> 00:34:57,950 Speaker 1: He's no The Blob from 1958, but a tremendous actor. 549 00:34:58,270 --> 00:35:01,529 Speaker 1: And we are really just opening the door for your 550 00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:06,410 Speaker 1: own investigations here, fellow ridiculous historians. Of course, all of 551 00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: these films we're naming are fiction technically, but they are 552 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: reflective of real fears. actionable concerns in the real world. 553 00:35:17,420 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: And we know that during the Red Scare, tons of 554 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:27,730 Speaker 1: pretty legitimate people had their careers ended because of the 555 00:35:28,290 --> 00:35:32,110 Speaker 1: same concerns that were powering cinema at this time. Writer 556 00:35:32,250 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: Langston Hughes, of course. Leonard Bernstein, the legendary composer. We 557 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,220 Speaker 1: also have to shout out, of course, that the United 558 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: States did something at least according to our textbooks, win 559 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:47,700 Speaker 1: the Cold War. 560 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:49,460 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. 561 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,860 Speaker 3: But again, sometimes the textbooks are written by the victors 562 00:35:54,060 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 3: and the perspective can be a little bit misleading from 563 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 3: time to time. 564 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,419 Speaker 2: Can you really win a Cold War? Isn't that sort 565 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,540 Speaker 2: of the nature of it, right? 566 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and can anybody really win a war? Because when 567 00:36:06,060 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: the elephants are waging war, it is the grass that suffers. 568 00:36:09,140 --> 00:36:11,900 Speaker 3: Get out there and touch grass while you can. 569 00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:12,620 Speaker 1: Yeah. 570 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 2: Well, you can't. 571 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,060 Speaker 1: Before the elephants get to it. Thank you so much 572 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,299 Speaker 1: for tuning in folks. Later this week, we're going to 573 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,890 Speaker 1: switch gears and hit the ridiculous history of the tuxedo. 574 00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:26,969 Speaker 1: Slight spoiler. In the meantime, big, big thanks to you 575 00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:30,390 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Big, big thanks to our guest super producer, 576 00:36:30,890 --> 00:36:34,779 Speaker 1: Ben Hackett. Ben, I don't want to make you uncomfortable 577 00:36:34,820 --> 00:36:36,700 Speaker 1: or put you on the spot, but where can people 578 00:36:36,739 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: go to learn more about your work? 579 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:42,950 Speaker 2: Oh man. Uh, Oh man, you can just look me 580 00:36:43,010 --> 00:36:44,630 Speaker 2: up on the internet. 581 00:36:47,830 --> 00:36:51,710 Speaker 1: Ben is too humble to say it, but he is 582 00:36:51,969 --> 00:36:58,660 Speaker 1: a phenomenal multi-instrumentalist musician who has an album coming out soon. 583 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,820 Speaker 1: We won't give you more than that, but we will 584 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: thank you again, Ben, for hanging out with us. And 585 00:37:04,660 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: thanks to Alex Williams, Noel, for making this Slapin' Pops. 586 00:37:08,140 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: This is true. 587 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,900 Speaker 3: He made this one that you're listening to right now 588 00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 3: and is also an incredible multi-instrumentalist and just a stand-up guy, 589 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,100 Speaker 3: along with his brother, Max with the Fax Williams, who 590 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 3: is away on adventures but will be returning soon. And 591 00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:25,230 Speaker 3: geez louise, Christopher Osiotis, Nev Jeffcoats here in spirit. 592 00:37:25,250 --> 00:37:27,109 Speaker 2: And why not, Ben? While we're at it, thank you. 593 00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:29,830 Speaker 1: And to you as well, Will. 594 00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:30,989 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. 595 00:37:38,130 --> 00:37:40,950 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 596 00:37:41,090 --> 00:37:44,050 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.