WEBVTT - Let's Be Bold...with Amy Robach 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:08.240 This is let's be clear with Shannon Doherty. Hello, everybody, 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.080 let's be clear family. I'm so excited to be able 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.600 to speak to all of you. My name is Amy 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.279 Robach and for those of you who don't know me, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:21.319 I have a podcast called Amy and TJ. I was 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.880 formerly an anchor and a reporter on Good Morning America. 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.240 Perhaps you might know me from there, But it was 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.680 through that job on Good Morning America that I had 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.640 the honor and the privilege of meeting, speaking with, and 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:40.280 interviewing the late great Shannon Doherty. It was twenty twenty. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.960 It was actually right before the pandemic, right before all 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:48.160 hell broke loose in this country. In February of twenty twenty. Wow, 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.920 that was five years ago. I got to sit down 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:57.360 and speak with Shannon, and she decided that month, that 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.960 day to let the world know what she had been 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.120 dealing with and what she had known for some time 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.800 at that point, that her cancer, that her breast cancer 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.360 had come back, that it was stage four metastatic breast cancer, 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:18.639 and it was gutting. It's the news that no breast 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:23.600 cancer patient survivor wants to hear. It's the thing that 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.880 we all fear I, for those of you who don't know, 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:30.520 am also a breast cancer survivor. I had stage two 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.280 breast cancer. It had traveled to my lympt notes and 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:39.440 I was diagnosed through a work assignment on Good Morning America. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.680 So it was a full circle moment to be able 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:45.440 to speak with Shannon there on Good Morning America. Seven 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.360 years later. She and I were diagnosed within a couple 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:50.760 of years of each other with early stage breast cancer. 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.280 And so yes for her to have to come back 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.200 and tell the world that her cancer had come back. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.360 And for a lot of cancers, I can come back, 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.120 and you can fight it and you can beat it. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.440 But those of us who have had breast cancer know 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.600 that when you get the stage four metastatic diagnosis, that 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.880 it is a terminal one right now. And there are 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:17.360 drugs and there are ways to fight it, to prolong 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.800 your life and to live longer and better, but ultimately, 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.000 right now, if you get a stage four metastatic diagnosis, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.840 you are dying. And so when Shannon sat down with 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.040 me to break this news, it was heartbreaking and it 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.919 was personal. I, like so many of you, grew up 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.280 loving Shannon Doherty. I think we're we're about one or 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.760 two years apart. I'm fifty two. I think she might 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:40.679 have been two years older than me. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.320 So I was absolutely in awe of her and just 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.440 got to see her from AFAR, got to interview her 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.000 in a group, but I didn't get to meet her 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.400 one on one, and sadly, it wasn't until she came 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.840 to Good Morning America on that February morning in twenty 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.520 twenty that I actually got to sit down with her, 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.280 and what we had to talk about was the last 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.560 thing either one of us wanted to but she was 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:02.919 so brave, you. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.000 Know that is I don't know if people give women 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:11.040 who come forward, especially women in the public eye, enough 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.640 credit for coming forward, because especially when you're someone like 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.200 Shannon Doherty, who was this bright, beautiful, shining example of 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:26.760 success and health to then say I have this right 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.720 now in curable disease, and I am dying and I 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.120 am scared, and I don't know what's next, and I 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.200 don't know how hard it's going to get and how 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.400 dark it's going to get. But I'm sharing this with 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.960 the world because I want other women to not feel alone. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.160 I want to promote and be an advocate for better research. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:46.880 So that we can find a cure to this disease. 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.360 And I'm going to put my name, and I'm going 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.880 to put my face, and I'm going to put all 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.200 of this pain out there to the world so that 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:58.440 we can all collectively embrace each other and then work 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:00.800 together to try and find a cure. Is so brave. 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.920 That is so brave. I remember when I first was 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.760 diagnosed and decided to go public with my breast cancer diagnosis. 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.360 My surgeon said to me the night before the surgery, 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.800 are you sure you want to go public with this? 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.479 Are you sure you want to tell the world about 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.920 your diagnosis? And I said yes, but why are you 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:28.640 asking me like this? And doctor Axelrod said, are you 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.279 prepared to be pitied? I don't know that you are. 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.279 It's a big deal to have people look at you 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.679 and look at you like they're almost attending your funeral, 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.480 and that will happen to you, and sure enough it did. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.680 You know, you get the cancer nod and the cancer hugs, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.480 and the people look at you with pity. And it's 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.920 a strange thing to experience if you haven't before. And 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.880 it's one thing to have an early stage diagnosis like 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:57.559 she and I both did in the beginning. It's another 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.719 thing altogether, when you're telling the world that you have 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.440 an incurable disease and that you're dying, and that takes 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.279 a whole other level of bravery that I just want 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.839 to commend Shannon for doing. Because when you tell your story, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.479 when one person tells their story, it affects everyone around you. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.000 All the women in your life tend to go and 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.440 make those manbogram appointments or to make that doctor's appointment, 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.080 to keep those appointments that they hadn't before, because they're 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:27.320 suddenly realizing how vulnerable we all are as human beings, 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:28.839 and that if we don't have our health, we don't 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.479 have anything. So every person listening to this podcast, no 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.000 matter what it is you may be dealing with, whether 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:38.120 it's loss or a disease or some sort of issue, 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.200 when you share it with one person, it affects everyone 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:45.920 around you because there is a collective learning and understanding 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:47.640 and growing that comes from it. So when you're someone 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:52.159 like Shannon Doherty and you take your tremendous and enormous 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.400 platform and you tell the world what you're dealing with, 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.120 the impact of that is immense. And so I just 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:02.600 I was sitting there talking with her and interviewing her. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.239 I was in awe of her because I have thought, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.160 and I think a lot of women who have early 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.479 stage breast cancer have thought about what they would do 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:16.200 and how they would handle a stage four metastatic diagnosis. 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.440 Anyone who has had breast cancer lives with that threat, 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.440 lives with that fear of it returning, of it recurring, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.720 and of it being stage four metastatic. And we live 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.640 our lives differently because of it, and we spend our 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:31.760 time differently because of it. But there's a lot of 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.719 fear and a lot of mental work that has to 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.960 be done along with the physical when you're dealing with 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:43.440 the breast cancer diagnosis, and specifically a stage four metastatic diagnosis. 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.320 I have had two dear friends, One has already passed 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.560 and one is rounding just rounded her seventh year as 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.560 a metastatic breast cancer patient, and that is frankly remarkable, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.960 and I am an awe of her each and every day. 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.200 It's people like Shannon. It's people like my friend Morgan, 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.000 my dear friend Olivia, who I lost, we all lost 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.560 last November. They are the women who I think of 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.200 every day when I have little things that happen where 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.200 I am upset or I feel frustrated by I think 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.040 about those women and I say, I got this. This 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.240 is a very small problem. This is just a situation 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.480 that needs to be addressed. It's not actually a real problem. 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:29.240 It just puts full perspective into your life. And I 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.200 just want to share with all of you in this 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:36.239 podcast what I learned from Shannon, from women like Shannon, 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.640 and from my own personal diagnosis. I don't know how 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.760 many people know my story who are listening to this, 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.320 but I was forty years old, and at the time, 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:52.559 the recommendations by all the different agencies that tell women 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.600 how often they should get tests and when they should 0:07:55.600 --> 0:08:00.680 get tests. Even the American Cancer Society that point had 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.320 said women could wait until they were forty five. 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:04.120 And then the. 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.480 Main group that determines when women should get mamograms, or 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.840 at least advises women they should get mammograms, said it 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.680 was fifty. So when Good Morning America asked me, when 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:17.160 I had just turned forty, if I would go have 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.960 a mammogram in a Mamma van in front of a 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.800 live national audience for Good Morning America on October first, 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.560 which is Breast Cancer Awareness Month to raise awareness about 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.000 the importance of mammograms and the importance of early detection. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.760 I said, no, I just I'm an authentic person, and 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.880 I just I told my producers at Good Morning America, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.480 I had no intention of getting a mammogram, and I 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.080 was planning on waiting ten years before I had my 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:45.800 first mammogram, and so I didn't want to go on 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.800 national television and tell other women to get a mammogram. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.240 If I myself was not going to get one, that 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.040 was just a non starter for me. And they asked 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.080 me to speak to Robin Roberts, who is also a 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.520 breast cancer arriver. She doesn't even like the words survivor. 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:02.880 She is a thriver. And they said, will you please 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.720 talk to Robin for you make it an absolute no. 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.840 I said sure. So I walked into Robin's dressing room 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.439 and I said, hey, Robin, I'm not the gal. I'm 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.240 not the one who should go into the Mamma Van 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.960 next week. I have no connection to the disease. My 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.120 mom is one of nine, my dad is one of six. 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.120 At that time, I had all of my grandparents still alive, 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.080 all of my aunts, all of my cousins. No one, 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.640 and I don't even know how many cousins I have 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.040 at this point, but no one has breast cancer in 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.920 my family. So I just felt like I had no 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.520 personal connection to the disease, and I certainly didn't think 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.760 that I needed a mammogram. And Robin said to me, 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.160 She laughed and said, you're exactly the person who should 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.280 walk into that Mamma Van because you think cancer can't 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.400 happen to you. And she said, I'm sure you're fine, 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:53.200 but it's that mentality that causes women not to make 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:55.840 those appointments and not to keep those appointments. And so 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.880 let me just say this to you. Robin said, if 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.160 you walk into that Mamma Van and you get that 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.320 mammogram on live national television, and you show the world, 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.679 you show the women watching that it's not that painful, 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.120 that it's not that hard, you will save a life. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.319 One woman will make her appointment who wouldn't have otherwise, 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.080 and she will find her breast cancer and she will 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.520 thank you for saving her life. That was a really, 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.679 really compelling argument, and I did a one eight in 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.640 that moment. I remember feeling emotion. It felt like a 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.320 watershed moment, and I said to Robin, I said, we 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.199 were in her dressing room. I said, I cannot believe 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.440 I'm saying this. I'm going to do a one eighty 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.920 here and I'll do it. I'll do it. I can't 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:41.160 beat that argument. I'll say yes. And so, because I 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.560 was nudged by Robin and my producers to get into 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.360 that Mamma Van and to get that mammogram, I found 0:10:49.440 --> 0:11:05.600 my breast cancer. And that was just the beginning. I 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.560 got the diagnosis that they found a lump in my 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.959 right breast, and it seemed like it was fairly small, 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.640 and so my surgeon recommended that I have a lumpectomy. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.320 Something that Robin told me and something that Hotocopy told 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.439 me too, women who I knew and loved who had 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.800 survived and thrived beyond their diagnosis. They both told me 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:32.600 about the power of advocacy and that each patient has 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.120 a right to navigate their own treatment. And that's a 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.400 scary thing for a lot of women. And doctors are 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.640 much smarter than me. I don't have a medical degree. 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:43.800 My brother does, so I was lucky enough to be 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.480 able to lean on him as well. But when I 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.240 was told that a lumpectomy was my best option. I 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.000 dug in and looked further, and my brother, really, among 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.160 all the people I talked to, convinced me to have 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:02.079 a double mistectomy. And that is a scary surgery. It 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.760 is it is an amputation. It is not something to 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.360 take lightly, and it is life changing. And every day 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.440 I am in the shower, I don't have feeling in 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.480 my breasts. Every day I take a shower, I know 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.040 that I'm a breast cancer survivor because it just the 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.400 best way I can describe it is if you've had 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.600 novacane to get a cavity filled, how it feels weird, 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.320 and you can that's how my breasts feel. That's how 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.800 they will always feel. And that's a lot better than 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.400 they felt in the months after the double mis aectamy. 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.440 So my point being, I am not advocating double mistectomies 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.160 here because they are a very serious surgery that require 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:45.920 very serious consideration. However, my surgeon really didn't think I 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.000 should get a double mistectomy. She didn't think I needed one, 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.360 and the night before the surgery, she also wouldn't that 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:54.920 phone call. She also said to me, are you sure 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:56.520 you don't want to get a lumpect to me, are 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.240 you sure you don't want to change your mind? And 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.800 I said, I'm sure. When I woke up from the surgery, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.280 there she was, my surgeon standing over me, and she 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.400 said to me, Okay, you were right, but I was good. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.319 And she told me that when they did the double 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.240 mistectmy she took her finger and just felt the lining 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.120 of my chest wall. And I had had, by the way, 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:28.400 an MRI, a sonogram, and the mammogram, and all of 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:33.880 those tests only showed one malignant mass. When she felt 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.240 the lining of my chest wall, she found another mass. 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.720 They tested it on the site and found out that 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.240 it too was malignant. So she found a second malignant 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.320 tumor only because I had the double mistect me. And 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.720 I just always want to tell that story because you 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.520 never know. You have to trust really the research you've done. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.000 And at the end of the day, it was my gut. 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.080 My gut just told me that I wanted to get 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.360 a double mistect to me, and it proved to be 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.400 the best choice of an the best course of action. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:03.880 When they did all of the testing on all of 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.960 my breast tissue from both breasts. My left breast also 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.000 was completely pre cancerous and so it too they believe 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.440 would have ultimately developed into breast cancer. So having the 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.480 double the bilateral mistectomy was absolutely the right decision for me, 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.040 and it was confirmed with the surgical results. So I 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.520 always always want to tell that story. The other decision 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.440 you have to make is what happens afterwards. I went, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.040 I actually went, I had to have chemo. You get 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.920 an ANCO score. It tells you your chance of recurrence 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.760 and the threat of having a comeback metastatic mind was 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.360 much higher than they wanted it to be. And just 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.840 all the lab work that they did on my breast issue, 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.680 my oncologist said, you don't have a choice. You have 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.000 to have chemo. So I went through six months of chemo. 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.320 And then when you're done with that and you have 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.680 your reconstructive surgery, now you have drug therapy. And this 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.640 is the point I want to talk about because Shannon 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.480 and I had this discussion Shannon Dolherty and I when 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.320 she came in and sat down with me. At that point, 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.160 I believe I was on year six of tomoxifin. So 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.400 tomoxifin is a drug that is offered to women who 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.400 have er positive breast cancer. So you're it's hormonally fueled, 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.880 and so the tomoxif in. I'm not again a medical scientist, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.040 but the best way in Layman's term I can describe it, 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.240 the way I understand that it works is it suppresses 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.440 your estrogen. It suppresses those hormones that feed cancer cells. 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.680 And I remember my on college is telling me you 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.560 have to get chemo, but even more importantly, you have 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.000 to take tomoxivin. And it had just they had said 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.320 five years was the gold standard, and they had just 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:37.920 raised it to ten years. They want women to be 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.040 on this drug for ten years. So I'm forty and 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.840 now I'm going into forced menopause and all of the 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.240 things that come with that, the hot flashes, the joint pain, 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.080 the dry skin, the just there are so many negative 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:53.960 side effects that come from it. But at the time, 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.440 you know, my daughters were I had two little girls 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.880 who were seven and ten at the time when I 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.200 was diagnosed, and my oncologist told me right away, you 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.520 are out of the baby making business. And I had 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.840 been trying to have another child actually the whole year before. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.760 So she said, thank god you didn't get pregnant, and 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.040 that really shook me. And you know to be told 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:18.960 you're out of the baby making business. I was lucky 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.320 enough to have already had two children. Shannon did not. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.640 She was not in that same situation. And so when 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.240 she was then presented with these same options because we 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.720 had similar hormonally fueled cancers, she opted not to have 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.520 the demoxifin. She wanted to keep her options open. And 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.680 that's a very fair personal decision that every woman has 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.160 to make. But Shannon decided not to have tamoxifin. I 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.360 decided to have tomoxifin. No one will ever know if 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.960 one decision led to the next outcome, but I know 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:54.560 that that Shannon at the end regretted not taking the demoxofin, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.720 and I remember when she told me that she was 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.880 not she decided not to take the tomoxfin I just 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.000 thought a mop in my throat because my friend Olivia, 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.919 who I just mentioned earlier in this the beginning of 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.119 this podcast, who passed last November. She and I were 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.560 diagnosed again like she had an ER positive cancer. She 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.880 was also staged two. It had traveled to her lymp notes. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.440 Like me, she also opted. She started on the tomoxopin. 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.359 She's a professional dancer, she said her joints hurt too much, 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.199 and so she stopped taking it, and when her cancer 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:29.320 came back four years later, stage four metastatic, she said 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.119 to me, God, I wish I had stayed on that 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.600 tom oxivan. So it's just it's not fair. No one knows. 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.720 Olivia and Shannon could have stayed on to moxifin and 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.959 been on to moxifin and they still may have had 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.280 the same outcome. But it's just worth mentioning that. It's 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.600 just I remember feeling, and I still feel to this 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:52.480 day that when you are a breast cancer patient, suddenly 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:56.119 all of these decisions are handed to you, and people 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.400 can tell you what they think, and they can tell 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.880 you what the best advice they believe is. But ultimately 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:03.680 you go with your gut, you go with your heart, 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:05.840 and you make the choice. But that's a scary thing 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:11.399 because no one really knows what one decision leads to, 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.560 and you just have to make the best decision in 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.879 the moment. I know that's what Shannon did. That was 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.000 the best decision for her and her life in that 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.200 moment and what she wanted, and it was the best 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.399 decision for Olivia in her life. I do know that 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:30.120 I have made a lot of changes over the years 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.600 since I've been diagnosed with breast cancer, health choices. I 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.480 started running. I've always been a runner, but I OpEd 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.439 my game. It took me a couple of years. I 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.960 just don't want anyone to think somehow I got cancer 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:46.040 and then became a superwoman. I was at that point 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.240 I was writing a book, and I did write a book. 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.479 If anyone would like to pick it up, it was 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.920 my book is called Better, and it was about how 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:00.760 my life has gotten better through this diagnose. It doesn't 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.080 mean it was easier, it doesn't mean it was less challenging, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.560 but I was able to make better decisions, and so 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.960 many of my decisions, even my last decision to leave 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:16.960 my last marriage, was absolutely influenced by my cancer diagnosis. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:22.560 Because people who have not just had cancer and lived 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.920 with cancer, but had any sort of life threatening situation 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.160 happened to them, and it happens almost at some point 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.679 to everyone, just depends on when it happens to you. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.560 But you realize that the most precious thing in life, 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.000 and we all know this intellectually, but you realize it 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.400 on a cellular level that time. Time is the one 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.160 thing that we don't get back that we're not guaranteed, 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.040 and so how I spend my time and who I 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:52.160 spend it with, and how I make my decisions, we're 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.800 all now funneled through that lens of time is precious 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.600 and it's not guaranteed. And you know it intimately when 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.840 you have had cancer and you are constantly or at 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.920 least feel like you're under the threat of it returning. 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.080 I think about it all the time. I think about 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.280 what I would do if it came back, who I 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.879 would tell, would I go public? And you know what, 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:30.840 I don't know the answer to that. I don't know 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.159 that I would go public until I had to. I 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.560 don't know if I would want to be the face 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.119 of that the way I was even with early stage 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.240 press cancer. And so again I just give so much 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:45.879 credit to Shannon for allowing us on that journey with 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:50.359 her so that we could could be with her but 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.800 also learn from her and hopefully keep champ fighting and 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.760 being champions for her in the cause and the cure. 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.640 And that's where my my focus is right now, because 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.920 I do try to balance my life in a much 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:10.080 different way, you know what I do, and I encourage 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.600 everyone to do this you don't have to have gone 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.080 through anything too significant yet to choose this. I choose fun. 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:23.960 I choose fun, I choose laughter. I wake up most 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.040 mornings and literally say to myself, how am I going 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.520 to have fun today? It doesn't have to be silly 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:32.959 or inane or something. It's just it's a choice about 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.600 how you go through life and what your attitude is. 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.080 And yes, I have bad days where I am not 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.920 in the mood to have fun, but I do prioritize 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.439 fun in a way that I hadn't before. I prioritize 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.800 enjoyment of life. And that's why we're here. I believe 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.639 that's why we're here to love each other, to love ourselves, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:22:00.000 and to learn and that can all happen with joy. 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:06.200 And that is the biggest lesson I learned. And I 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:12.480 know that. I know that this is such a sad 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.200 topic and a painful topic, and I think for that reason, 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.120 a lot of people shy away from it. They shy 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:23.159 away from talking about it, and sometimes from even making appointments. 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.040 I have heard from women who say they have not 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.800 made their mammogram appointments, that they have not even made 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.800 doctor appointments because they don't want to know that ignorance 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.520 is bliss, that it's better to not have the test 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.280 and not be worried about it, and that to me, 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.760 I understand, I was that person. I would have waited 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.160 until I was fifty to have that mammogram. And I 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:49.679