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Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati this week climate hope

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Speaker 1: from a sinking island. I'm in sunny Barbados this week

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Speaker 1: attending the Sustainable Energy for All Global Forum in the

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Speaker 1: country's capital, Bridgetown. It's my first time here, but I've

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Speaker 1: long waited to visit, not just for the beaches, though

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Speaker 1: they are nice, but for a climate reporter like me.

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Speaker 1: The bigger draw is the Prime Minister of Barbados, Mia Mottley.

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Speaker 1: She's held the office since twenty eighteen, and in that

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Speaker 1: time she's come to be known as a singular force

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Speaker 1: in raising the voice of climate vulnerable countries and in

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Speaker 1: helping find new solutions for them. She has set ambitious

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Speaker 1: emissions targets for Barbados, laid out plans to conserve vast

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Speaker 1: tracks of its oceans, and championed the use of clean power.

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Speaker 1: But perhaps her most impressive achievement is that she's found

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Speaker 1: inventive ways to change the conversation on climate finance. For example,

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Speaker 1: last year, Barbados was able to replace expensive loans by

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Speaker 1: cheap ones because Motley convinced lenders that it would be

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Speaker 1: to their benefit. That's because the savings will be put

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Speaker 1: toward making the country more resilient to climate change and

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Speaker 1: thus improve the country's financial health in the long run.

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Speaker 1: Barbados has also successfully negotiated clauses in its loan agreements

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Speaker 1: that allow it to pause repayments if the country is

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Speaker 1: hit with an extreme weather event. She's also looked for

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Speaker 1: creative ways to fund climate adaptation. This week, her administration

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Speaker 1: released its new budget. It will see a fund for

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Speaker 1: resilience and regeneration that will be supported by a point

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Speaker 1: two five percent salary contribution from all workers in Barbados.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to something that Raphaele Soul, a lawyer

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Speaker 1: and business consultant, had to tell me about this fund.

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Speaker 2: I see it as a way of us showing up

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Speaker 2: our country's infrastructure, making sure that our systems have the

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Speaker 2: necessary redundancies, so that of course in the cases of

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Speaker 2: natural disasters, but generally speaking, as we're building our country

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Speaker 2: from a development perspective, we're going to be able to

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Speaker 2: have the safety net. We need to make sure that's

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Speaker 2: done well.

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Speaker 1: As you can hear here in Barbados, climate change isn't

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Speaker 1: just a side issue. It's the issue, and Motley has

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Speaker 1: used the learnings from her country to help other vulnerable

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Speaker 1: countries to deploy these solutions. The Bridgetown Initiative, which she

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Speaker 1: launched at COP twenty six in twenty twenty one, puts

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Speaker 1: old and new financial tools to creative use. So when

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Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to interview Prime Minister Motley on

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Speaker 1: stage at the Forum this week, I jumped at the chance.

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Speaker 1: In this episode of Zero, we are bringing you that conversation,

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Speaker 1: as well as some parts of the speech she delivered

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Speaker 1: at the Forum.

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Speaker 3: The beautiful thing about the game of cricket is that

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Speaker 3: you learn early that you have to play on the

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Speaker 3: pitch as it is not as you would like it,

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Speaker 3: and Barbados has perhaps produced more global cricketers of excellence

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Speaker 3: per capita than any other part of the world. I

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Speaker 3: apologize to my brothers in Gernada and Trinidad and elsewhere,

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Speaker 3: even in India. But in learning that, it learns that

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Speaker 3: we play on the wicket as it is not as

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Speaker 3: you would like it, and you don't spend time or

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Speaker 3: energy crying over what could have been, but we deal

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Speaker 3: with the world as it is. On the twelfth of

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Speaker 3: March twenty twenty five, I therefore ask us to use

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Speaker 3: this opportunity to make the partnerships to perfect the networks

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Speaker 3: that will help us unlock the financing that is critical.

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Speaker 3: I also ask us to recognize that as small states,

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Speaker 3: or as developing states, mimicry does not get us very far.

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Speaker 3: If we try to establish regulatory structures that are known

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Speaker 3: to the North Atlantic world, whose systems of development and

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Speaker 3: whose institutions are completely different, we find ourselves, as my

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Speaker 3: own country has done regrettably in the last three and

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Speaker 3: a half years, caught up in regulatory arbitrage that has

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Speaker 3: done nothing other than to lock off and block off

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Speaker 3: over half a billion dollars of investment in renewable energy

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Speaker 3: that is waiting and exploding to be put into action.

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Speaker 3: And I share this with you because I'm sure that

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Speaker 3: if we can learn from each other and do not

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Speaker 3: have to repeat the mistakes of each other, we will

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Speaker 3: get much further ahead. The reality is that most of

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Speaker 3: our markets are way too small to command the attention

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Speaker 3: of even commercial providers, far less to be talking about

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Speaker 3: the things that are necessary to distort competition or to

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Speaker 3: avoid corruption. We lose is time, and what we lose

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Speaker 3: is the benefit of curtailing and increase in temperature globally.

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Speaker 3: What we lose is an inability to build the resilience

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Speaker 3: that we need. Our own Energy Transition Investment Plan contemplates

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Speaker 3: that Barbados will reach net zero by twenty thirty five.

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Speaker 3: We are committed to that goal, but we equally recognize

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Speaker 3: and we've had to go to Parliament twice to change

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Speaker 3: legislation to start to streamline what would otherwise be complex

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Speaker 3: processes that have already delayed US three and a half years.

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Speaker 3: So long as we can satisfy ourselves of the public

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Speaker 3: purpose and be aware of the public mischief, we then

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Speaker 3: have to find new ways that are appropriate to size

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Speaker 3: and institutional maturity to be able to help us advance

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Speaker 3: the execution of these targets that we have set ourselves.

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Speaker 3: And I believe that if we can create, as I said,

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Speaker 3: the international platform that can de risk investments, that will

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Speaker 3: allow for South south cooperation, that will allow for the

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Speaker 3: creation of guarantees so that we can better access domestic savings,

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Speaker 3: so that they too can be part and parcel of

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Speaker 3: the community that benefits from the rewards that would otherwise

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Speaker 3: be available only to establish capital, that we can create

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Speaker 3: a win win who shared.

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Speaker 1: Partnerships after the break More from Barbados and by the way,

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Speaker 1: if you've been enjoying this episode, please take a moment

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Speaker 1: to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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Speaker 1: It helps other listeners find the show. I'm minister, thank

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Speaker 1: you for that speech, and thank you especially for making

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Speaker 1: time during this week when the budget discussions are going on.

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Speaker 1: I recognize how valuable this time is that you're spending

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Speaker 1: on at the four. Let me start by the message

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Speaker 1: you had in your speech about practical and feasible solutions.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that the Bridgetown Initiative and many

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Speaker 1: of the projects that you mentioned around dead spots, for

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Speaker 1: final resilience, for ocean conservation, for having a resilience fund

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Speaker 1: where employees pay into it here in Barbados, those are practical,

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Speaker 1: feasible solutions now in the years of effort that you

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Speaker 1: have put in to try and develop these solutions in

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Speaker 1: this moment where we are seeing a backlash on climate

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Speaker 1: policies all around the world, be that in rich countries

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Speaker 1: like the US where Donald Trump has pulled the US

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Speaker 1: out of the Barrass Agreement, be that in Europe that

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Speaker 1: is committed to climate action but is now being forced

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Speaker 1: to spend heavily on defense and thus shrinking the fiscal

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Speaker 1: space it has for climate investments. What do you think

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Speaker 1: are the lessons that you have learned from these solutions

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Speaker 1: that developing countries should be taking on board right now?

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Speaker 3: As I said, I think we have to start at

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Speaker 3: home first. On Monday, the Minister in the Ministry Finance

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Speaker 3: delivered the budget speech for our government, and in addition

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Speaker 3: to employees and self employed persons contributing quarter one percent

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Speaker 3: of their earnings to a resilience and regeneration fund, we

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Speaker 3: have now asked employers to match the contributions of the

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Speaker 3: employees and we've gone further, and I have been inspired

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Speaker 3: by Germany quite frankly in so doing. Last week the

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Speaker 3: new Chancellor of Germany made it absolutely clear that whatever

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Speaker 3: it takes to keep his country stable he will undertake,

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Speaker 3: and that he would be reviewing the fiscal rules, particularly

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Speaker 3: with respect to military spending. Our Parliament has now before

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Speaker 3: it a statement from the Minister in the Ministry of

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Speaker 3: Finance that we will now commit to add every year,

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Speaker 3: starting from this year, a quarter of one percent of

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Speaker 3: GDP in a regeneration and resilience fund, and that we

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Speaker 3: will amend our fiscal rules to be able to accommodate

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Speaker 3: that commitment on an annual basis. Because climate is for

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Speaker 3: us an existential crisis, and we start therefore with what

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Speaker 3: we can do for ourselves. I've then adverted to what

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Speaker 3: we can do regionally. We have in this region six

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Speaker 3: billion US dollars in excess liquidity, excess domestic liquidity. On

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Speaker 3: its own, it may be difficult to employ, but in

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Speaker 3: partnership with guarantees, whether from the European Investment Bank or

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Speaker 3: other entities, all of a sudden that can be leveraged

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Speaker 3: to be able to secure far more funding than is

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Speaker 3: currently available now, so that we can finance much of

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Speaker 3: our own development. I am sure that the same obtains

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Speaker 3: in Africa, the same obtains in the Pacific, the same

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Speaker 3: obtains in Latin America. What we have now to explore

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Speaker 3: is whether the cross border flows south south can also work,

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Speaker 3: because the rail problems have come north south. In determining

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Speaker 3: what are the risk and what is the lack of

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Speaker 3: information that would otherwise preclude us from being able to

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Speaker 3: have access to affordable interest rates for capital that is

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Speaker 3: used or pooled, we need to create opportunities for each other,

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Speaker 3: and I genuinely believe that that is entirely possible. I'm

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Speaker 3: also not, however, distracted by the fact that the US,

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Speaker 3: as is their right, has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement.

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Speaker 3: But at the level of the federal state, as we

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Speaker 3: keep hearing in the US, there is a clear division

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Speaker 3: between what they do and what is done at the

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Speaker 3: level of states and what is done at the level

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Speaker 3: of municipalities. And I think you will find that a

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Speaker 3: number of municipalities and a number of states are still

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Speaker 3: investing their money in green energy, in green bonds, and

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Speaker 3: therefore there will continue to be a strong financial pool

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Speaker 3: of funds available for good, credible investments. I make one

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Speaker 3: last point on mitigation. It doesn't matter where mitigation takes

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Speaker 3: place in the world, it just needs to take place.

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Speaker 3: And we need, therefore to find a way of creating

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Speaker 3: a global fund that can finance the most efficient and

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Speaker 3: effective mitigation projects, because if we are not going to

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Speaker 3: have the power of one or two countries behind what

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Speaker 3: we are doing, then in my own country, there's an

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Speaker 3: old saying, one one blow is kill old cow. One

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Speaker 3: one blow is kill old cow. And what it simply

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Speaker 3: means is that one by one, by one by one,

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Speaker 3: we can effectively still achieve what we need to achieve

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Speaker 3: if we were to take the cumulative domestic excess liquidity

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Speaker 3: of the global South and start to determine how we

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Speaker 3: can work with strategic partners, whether it is Europe, whether

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Speaker 3: it is China, whether it is India, whether it is Brazil,

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Speaker 3: regardless whether it is the Gulf States, we will then

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Speaker 3: begin to recognize that we have access to a lot

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Speaker 3: more than we are actually currently aware of.

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Speaker 1: One thing that came up in other speeches as well

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Speaker 1: as yours is the need for financing. And many of

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Speaker 1: the examples that you have secured here in Barbados have

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Speaker 1: relied on some amount of support from development banks. We

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Speaker 1: talked about the importance of guarantees in enabling these solutions

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Speaker 1: to happen. Now I hear from people who are in

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Speaker 1: development banks there is a sense of fear that with

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Speaker 1: the US, which is amongst the largest shareholders in development banks,

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Speaker 1: that there will be pushback against anything that has labeled

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Speaker 1: climate as we are seeing already in the legislation in America.

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Speaker 1: So if development banks are supposed to play such a

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Speaker 1: crucial role in guaranteeing access to finance for developing countries

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Speaker 1: toward climate resilience, how do you go about getting that

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Speaker 1: finance development banks don't play the role that they have

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Speaker 1: played for Barbados.

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Speaker 3: Well, the first thing is that they must stop letting

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Speaker 3: fear be a paralyzing emotion, because if they do that,

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Speaker 3: then they'll realize that they can use the capital that

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Speaker 3: they have and they can work together with others in

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Speaker 3: guarantees to leverage it to be able to unlock far

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Speaker 3: more than it would otherwise unlock. At this point in time,

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Speaker 3: I remain, as I said, optimistic, because I believe that

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Speaker 3: we have not really scratched the surface between what we have.

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Speaker 3: The problem is is that we're also trying to secure

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Speaker 3: what we know we will need down the line. But

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Speaker 3: sometimes you have to stop a start with what you

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Speaker 3: have where you are, while building up the capacity to

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Speaker 3: achieve what you need three five, seven, ten years from now.

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Speaker 3: And that sense of ultimate pragmatism and the blinkered approach

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Speaker 3: that does not cause you to spend your energy and

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Speaker 3: emotion in fear but actually causes you to be able

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Speaker 3: to and lot what you have is what I think

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Speaker 3: is required in this moment. I also think that let

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Speaker 3: us be real, the United States is driven not just

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Speaker 3: by presidential directives. Or governor's directives or congressional directives is

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Speaker 3: driven by commerce, and there are companies that are going

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Speaker 3: to find that they will be outside of the opportunities

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Speaker 3: with respect to the procurement that must take place for

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Speaker 3: the green energy transition. Every single export import bank in

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Speaker 3: the world has some kind of domestic interests by ensuring

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Speaker 3: that their suppliers of products and services benefit from any

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Speaker 3: concessional funding that is given. That's not going to change

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Speaker 3: overnight in the US, so I am prepared to wait

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Speaker 3: for the medium to long game and to recognize that

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Speaker 3: those persons who are going to be left out of

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Speaker 3: the equation will soon find a ward as to how

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Speaker 3: to get back in on the issue of the green

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Speaker 3: energy transition. And let us be also very clear, the

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Speaker 3: United States has been an engine of scientific and engineering

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Speaker 3: innovation and therefore I expect that those people will also

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Speaker 3: not want to be left out of what is the

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Speaker 3: most important scientific and engineering innovation that is necessary globally.

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Speaker 1: One more question around politics around the world, not just

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Speaker 1: in the US, is that we have seen in election

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Speaker 1: after election that there is issues beyond climate action that

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Speaker 1: are the focus for people. So cost of living crisis, inflation,

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Speaker 1: where people think they are paying too much or aren't

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Speaker 1: getting a good deal from government. But as you've done

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Speaker 1: with the Resilience and Regeneration Fund, where you have contributions

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Speaker 1: coming from employees into the fund, how do you make

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Speaker 1: that case? How can other developing countries make that case

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Speaker 1: to their people that climate action is in their economic

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Speaker 1: interest so that they can win elections and act on

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Speaker 1: this problem.

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Speaker 3: Human beings know that they can't only live for what

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Speaker 3: is necessary today, but they're building towards the future. The

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Speaker 3: reason we educate children is not that we expect them

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Speaker 3: to get all the knowledge in one year. It's a

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Speaker 3: process and it's no different in this respect. Similarly, we

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Speaker 3: all know and there's the old adage that I use

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Speaker 3: repeatedly with my people here, many hands make like work.

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Speaker 3: And if we don't recognize that all of us have

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Speaker 3: a role to play, then we are not being truthful

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Speaker 3: nor faithful to our people. The reality continues every person,

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Speaker 3: through their actions and through their contributions financially, however small,

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Speaker 3: however large, have a role to play in confronting is

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Speaker 3: really a crisis of humanity because the planet on which

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Speaker 3: we live, the only livable planet that we know, is

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Speaker 3: in fact at risk now. I don't even want to

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Speaker 3: say luckily, but the truth is that the last five

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Speaker 3: years have shown us enough climate disasters globally where ordinary

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Speaker 3: people have either lost their lives or livelihoods that anyone

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Speaker 3: who is thinking will realize that this is not just

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Speaker 3: a coincidence or a quirk of nature, and that we

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Speaker 3: are in a pathway that will in fact put all

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Speaker 3: of us at risk. We used to say in the

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Speaker 3: Caribbean all the time, Simon would tell you that we

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Speaker 3: are the canaries in the mind. Regrettably, those who were

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Speaker 3: watching on now know that this is not a joke

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Speaker 3: or this is not a problem for SIDS somewhere elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: The majority of the North Atlantic countries, and indeed the

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Speaker 3: emerging market economies China, India, Brazil all have coastal communities

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Speaker 3: and coastal cities that are going to be significantly put

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Speaker 3: at risk. In Africa, when you fly over and you

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Speaker 3: see the big brung swath of land that is inhospitable

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Speaker 3: to development and farming, you then begin to better appreciate

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Speaker 3: why there may be issues of insecurity permeating the continent

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Speaker 3: if people can't guarantee to their citizens simple things like

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Speaker 3: making a living, like being able to farm, like being

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Speaker 3: able to access water, like being able to withstand the drought.

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Speaker 3: So I am very very clear that in the same

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Speaker 3: way we tell our children what is good for them

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Speaker 3: and how to be able to prepare themselves, to grow up,

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Speaker 3: how to manage risk. They learn not to touch fire

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Speaker 3: from early, they learn how to cross a road, they

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Speaker 3: learn how to do basic things. Why are we frightened

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Speaker 3: for having these conversations with our population when in truth

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Speaker 3: and in fact, it is their actions and their contributions

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Speaker 3: that will help us scale up to make the difference.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you two small questions. One is

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Speaker 1: that as you've heard people around the world wait to

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Speaker 1: hear what you have to say. I've been to cop

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Speaker 1: meetings and when there's a list of people who are

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Speaker 1: going to speak, everybody rushes to hear Prime Minister Motley speak.

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Speaker 1: The reason is twofold one. You bring moral leadership and

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Speaker 1: you bring feasible solutions. We talked about the feasible solutions,

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Speaker 1: but the moral leadership at this time matters more than ever.

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Speaker 1: You've talked about how the Caribbean needs to be seen

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Speaker 1: and heard when there are such loud voices around wars,

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Speaker 1: around economic distress, around trade wars happening around the world.

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Speaker 1: How do you keep the moral leadership a focus in

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Speaker 1: this conversation.

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Speaker 3: By remaining resolute and saying what you believe and what

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Speaker 3: you stand for. Look, I just gave you the example

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Speaker 3: of methane. The fact that others will find potentially an

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Speaker 3: opportunity for cooperation in controlling methane by stopping the flaring

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Speaker 3: of gas and by fixing gas pipes does not cause

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Speaker 3: me to change my fundamental beliefs as to why I'm

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Speaker 3: asking them to do it. So that we don't change

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Speaker 3: who we are, but we find opportunities for collaboration and

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Speaker 3: partnership where there exists, and then where there continues to

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Speaker 3: be divide, we continue the conversation to see how best

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Speaker 3: we can work together to bridge the divide.

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Speaker 1: And the last question, You've been warning for many years

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Speaker 1: that the world today looks a lot like a century ago. True,

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Speaker 1: that it's imperial, that there was in nineteen eighteen pandemic

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Speaker 1: that killed tens of millions, that it followed a great depression,

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Speaker 1: then it followed a world war, and the horrors that

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Speaker 1: came from the Nazi regen in the twenty first century.

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Speaker 1: We've had a pandemic, We've had financial crisis. There are

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Speaker 1: wars now in Africa, in the Middle East, in Europe.

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Speaker 1: And to add to all that, we have climate change

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Speaker 1: that we didn't have one hundred years ago. So one

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Speaker 1: thing I know everybody here would like to hear, how

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Speaker 1: do you make a case for hope today?

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Speaker 3: Hope is a human condition that's necessary for me to

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Speaker 3: take my next step. And I don't think that we

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Speaker 3: should ever believe that hope is impossible because our current

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Speaker 3: reality is difficult. If that were the case, my brother

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Speaker 3: President Bio would not be here today talking to me,

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Speaker 3: because slavery would have insisted that we don't exist anywhere

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Speaker 3: in this country. So I want to remind people that

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Speaker 3: hope is a condition that we choose, and we choose

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Speaker 3: it irrespective of whether our difficulties are great or small.

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Speaker 3: If we remember that, then we will also remember that

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Speaker 3: resilience is what buttresses and gives hope its best chance,

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Speaker 3: which is why we are working in the way in

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Speaker 3: which we are working. So I truly believe that you

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Speaker 3: have to choose hope. And if people choose hope as

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Speaker 3: was as it was chosen by generations before who face

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Speaker 3: even greater personal turbulence, even if not planetary crisis. Then

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Speaker 3: I think we shall make the journey.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, thank you, thank you for listening

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Speaker 1: to Zero and now for the sound of the week.

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Speaker 1: Even the frogs and Barbados are nice. They don't croak

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Speaker 1: but whistle. If you like this episode, please take a

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Speaker 1: moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: and Spotify. Share this episode with a friend or with

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Speaker 1: someone who loves beaches. You can get in touch at

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Speaker 1: Zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. Zero's producer is Miight Lira.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Head of podcast is Sage Bauman, and head of

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Speaker 1: Talk is Brendan newnam Our. Theme music is composed by

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Speaker 1: Wonderly Special. Thanks to Kanika Chawla and Sherry Kennedy at

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Speaker 1: Sustainable Energy for All, and to Shawan Wagner and Jessica

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Speaker 1: beck I am Akshra Drati Back soon.