WEBVTT - Episode 6: Knocking on the Door of a Porn Empire 0:00:15.516 --> 0:00:24.276 Pushkin, Welcome back. Here's your reminder. This is a series 0:00:24.316 --> 0:00:28.196 about power and money and the porn industry. Some parts 0:00:28.196 --> 0:00:31.676 of this series are very much for adults. We should 0:00:31.676 --> 0:00:36.676 warn you that this episode contains very graphic depictions of 0:00:36.716 --> 0:00:40.556 a type of pornography that some people might find upsetting. 0:00:44.036 --> 0:00:46.916 In our last episode, we told you all about the 0:00:46.956 --> 0:00:49.716 way mine gee came up against a wall of reckoning. 0:00:50.196 --> 0:00:54.156 The giant of online porn, the company that has dominated 0:00:54.236 --> 0:00:58.436 this industry more than any other, was finally cut down 0:00:58.476 --> 0:01:01.596 to size. It was cut down by two of the 0:01:01.636 --> 0:01:06.676 most everyday businesses you could imagine, Visa and MasterCard, huge 0:01:06.756 --> 0:01:10.836 payments companies that seem to moon as the regulators of 0:01:10.916 --> 0:01:15.876 world porn. But here's the puzzle for this episode. While 0:01:15.956 --> 0:01:19.676 mine geek took down millions of videos, its biggest rival 0:01:19.836 --> 0:01:25.436 seemed untouched by the whole affair. This other company serves 0:01:25.476 --> 0:01:28.556 more pawn to more people in the world today than 0:01:28.676 --> 0:01:32.596 mine Geek, ever did. Not only that, it makes mine 0:01:32.636 --> 0:01:36.796 geek look like a beacon of transparency, just listen to 0:01:36.916 --> 0:01:43.836 its extraordinarily forgettable name. Wgc Z. It stands for Web 0:01:43.876 --> 0:01:46.956 Group Czech Republic. You know, because it's a web group 0:01:47.396 --> 0:01:52.716 in the Czech Republic. Wgcz's tube sites x videos and 0:01:53.076 --> 0:01:57.636 xn xx host about six million visits a month. That's 0:01:57.756 --> 0:02:01.396 roughly the same as Twitter, and much more than mine 0:02:01.396 --> 0:02:06.636 geek's flagship site, Pornhub. But you're probably hearing about WGCZ, 0:02:07.196 --> 0:02:10.356 the owner of all those popular sites. For the first time, 0:02:13.116 --> 0:02:16.876 we've discovered that in the pornography world, the competition between 0:02:16.876 --> 0:02:22.236 the two companies, mine Geek and WGCZ speers. They're like 0:02:22.556 --> 0:02:27.676 rival clans, the Montagues and Capellets of porn. Day by 0:02:27.756 --> 0:02:32.356 day they fight to dominate the industry, mostly for money, 0:02:32.516 --> 0:02:36.596 sometimes just out of spite. And despite having similar origins, 0:02:37.316 --> 0:02:41.796 these two powerful porn empires have taken very different paths. 0:02:43.836 --> 0:02:47.276 They both started out as pirates. But there is a 0:02:47.516 --> 0:02:51.476 time when the pirate ship comes into port and starts 0:02:51.516 --> 0:02:53.596 to improve the island that it's ported at, and it 0:02:53.676 --> 0:02:55.996 ceases to be the pirate. Mine Geek seased to be 0:02:55.996 --> 0:02:58.356 the pirate a long time ago. They're a very different 0:02:58.396 --> 0:03:02.556 kind of company. This is Kelly Holland she knows this 0:03:02.676 --> 0:03:06.156 story well. She was there when the tube sites first 0:03:06.196 --> 0:03:09.356 took a swing at the foundations of the porn industry. 0:03:09.636 --> 0:03:13.436 If you go to Montreal. They've got a seven or 0:03:13.436 --> 0:03:16.796 eight story building right on the freeway with their name 0:03:16.996 --> 0:03:19.996 plastered on the side, and they've got huge departments. I 0:03:19.996 --> 0:03:25.476 mean they're running like any large corporation. WGCZ is running 0:03:25.516 --> 0:03:33.596 out of a throwback Soviet block apartment building in Prague 0:03:34.316 --> 0:03:38.196 and the neighbors complained because they were shooting porno in 0:03:38.276 --> 0:03:41.236 an apartment on the second floor and the neighbors could 0:03:41.236 --> 0:03:45.276 hear it. I mean, they're still operating as if they 0:03:45.316 --> 0:03:55.396 were a shadow company. While Visa MasterCard came down hard 0:03:55.476 --> 0:03:59.996 on mine Geek for failing to police content, WTCZ somehow 0:04:00.436 --> 0:04:06.236 dodgedad bullet. If anything, this little known check company has 0:04:06.276 --> 0:04:09.916 been the winner and the war on mine Geek. This 0:04:10.596 --> 0:04:14.316 is the story of wide paced to stay hidden. If 0:04:14.316 --> 0:04:19.356 you're in the business reporn. I'm Patricia Neilson. He's Alex 0:04:19.396 --> 0:04:23.916 Barker from Pushkin Industries in the Financial Times. This is 0:04:23.996 --> 0:05:04.476 Hot Money, Act one wg WHO. We're in the dusty 0:05:04.556 --> 0:05:08.236 hills of the San Fernando Valley in the northwest, outskirts 0:05:08.236 --> 0:05:12.596 of La Kelly Holland is an old school feminist and 0:05:12.676 --> 0:05:16.036 that's actually withdrew her to make porn in the first place. 0:05:17.836 --> 0:05:21.436 For her, back in the nineties, porn was a way 0:05:21.476 --> 0:05:25.276 to stick it to traditional American values that she found stifling. 0:05:27.116 --> 0:05:29.876 What became apparent to me fairly early on was a 0:05:30.036 --> 0:05:34.996 it was a renegade culture. It was a radical culture. 0:05:36.156 --> 0:05:42.636 It was very disruptive. Long story short, Kelly wanted in. First, 0:05:43.036 --> 0:05:47.636 she made a documentary about porn. Bruce Springsteen had just 0:05:47.676 --> 0:05:49.556 come out with Born in the USA, I think, so 0:05:49.596 --> 0:05:52.556 we decided we would call it Porn in the USA, 0:05:52.796 --> 0:05:56.916 and that's how it started. She then went on to 0:05:56.916 --> 0:06:00.916 shoot the real thing. Eventually she became one of the 0:06:00.956 --> 0:06:05.916 industry's first big female directors. Well things don't always work 0:06:05.956 --> 0:06:11.436 out like they should. Well here's Michael. Now I got 0:06:11.476 --> 0:06:14.956 the same working upstairs in the hall closet final clothes. Well, 0:06:14.956 --> 0:06:18.396 that's great. She made such a strong name for herself 0:06:18.796 --> 0:06:21.716 that in two thousand and six she was headhunted by 0:06:21.796 --> 0:06:27.356 one of the most iconic brands in porn, Penthouse. At 0:06:27.396 --> 0:06:30.956 that point, tube sites were just getting started, and as 0:06:30.956 --> 0:06:34.916 they ripped through the adult industry, Kelly kept rising through 0:06:34.956 --> 0:06:38.076 the ranks of Penthouse. When a boss decided to leave, 0:06:38.676 --> 0:06:41.796 he asked Kelly to fill his shoes he said, well, 0:06:41.836 --> 0:06:44.276 I'll put it to you this way, Holland, You're not 0:06:44.316 --> 0:06:46.636 an easy person to get along with. So if I 0:06:46.716 --> 0:06:49.036 have to hire somebody to be president of Penthouse, they're 0:06:49.036 --> 0:06:51.236 probably not going to like you. And if they want 0:06:51.236 --> 0:06:52.716 to fire you, I'm not going to get in their 0:06:52.716 --> 0:06:56.396 way because I respect verticals. So what's your answer? And 0:06:56.396 --> 0:07:00.156 I went, gosh, I guess put like that. That's how 0:07:00.396 --> 0:07:05.396 I actually became president. But as a business leader, Kelly 0:07:05.436 --> 0:07:09.436 faced new challenges. As her old boss had predicted did. 0:07:10.116 --> 0:07:14.236 She soon started clashing with the CEO of Penthouse. To 0:07:14.276 --> 0:07:18.676 get rid of him, Kelly saw only one solution. She 0:07:19.516 --> 0:07:23.476 had to take over the whole thing. Kelly succeeded, sort of. 0:07:24.156 --> 0:07:27.196 She took over Penthouse in twenty sixteen, but only with 0:07:27.316 --> 0:07:31.196 the help of what she jokingly called street corner gangster 0:07:31.356 --> 0:07:34.996 debt at a twenty three percent interest rate. The thing is, 0:07:35.636 --> 0:07:39.196 Kelly didn't get on with the lenders either. The business struggled, 0:07:39.356 --> 0:07:42.836 and by twenty eighteen, just two years after she took over, 0:07:43.316 --> 0:07:47.196 she filed for bankruptcy. Penthouse was once again for sale. 0:07:48.156 --> 0:07:51.476 So a bankruptcy auction is not like a Christie's auction 0:07:52.316 --> 0:07:54.996 where you get that very subtle nod where you get 0:07:55.036 --> 0:08:00.076 the finger up or the placard comes up. The courtroom 0:08:00.156 --> 0:08:03.196 was packed, It was already hot in Los Angeles, and 0:08:03.356 --> 0:08:06.756 I think people were sweating a little bit. Kelly remember 0:08:06.836 --> 0:08:10.236 standing at the back, too nervous to sit down. The 0:08:10.316 --> 0:08:13.116 clown section had to be shaken out first, and then 0:08:13.116 --> 0:08:14.956 it came down to the serious bidders, and that was 0:08:15.076 --> 0:08:20.196 very clearly mine geek and WGCZ mine geek. Of course 0:08:20.236 --> 0:08:22.196 I knew, and I knew them all the way back 0:08:22.196 --> 0:08:25.236 into the man one times because they were so relevant 0:08:25.796 --> 0:08:28.916 in driving the changes in business, and they were very 0:08:28.956 --> 0:08:33.476 relevant in affecting my broadcast. I didn't know anything about WGCZ. 0:08:33.676 --> 0:08:38.196 It took me a day just to remember the four letters. Wait, 0:08:38.396 --> 0:08:48.036 w what WGCZ or w GCZ A corporate brand so 0:08:48.076 --> 0:08:53.116 anonymous that it hides in plain sight. Remember it owns 0:08:53.316 --> 0:08:56.996 x videos, the world's most highly traffic pawn site by 0:08:57.036 --> 0:09:00.156 some distance. It has about one billion more visits a 0:09:00.196 --> 0:09:04.636 month than pawn Hub today. At the auction that day, 0:09:05.156 --> 0:09:10.996 wgcz's representative was Robert Seafort. Kelly remembers that Robert wore 0:09:11.036 --> 0:09:14.556 baggy jeans and a T shirt with holes. He stood 0:09:14.596 --> 0:09:18.156 out among all the suits, and he was trying to 0:09:18.156 --> 0:09:22.516 become her new boss. Kelly asked a colleague about him. 0:09:22.636 --> 0:09:25.436 I said, who is that? And they said X videos. 0:09:26.196 --> 0:09:29.196 I said what he said, Well, you know, we went 0:09:29.236 --> 0:09:31.396 over the numbers with him. He doesn't know anything about 0:09:31.396 --> 0:09:36.916 the company, doesn't know anything about the numbers. The courtroom 0:09:37.076 --> 0:09:41.396 was tense and quiet. This battle was about more than 0:09:41.436 --> 0:09:44.556 the fate of Penthouse. It was a bare knuckle fight 0:09:44.676 --> 0:09:48.036 for pride between the two heavyweights of the porn industry. 0:09:48.556 --> 0:09:51.756 It was very obvious that mine Geek and wgc were 0:09:51.756 --> 0:09:55.236 going to bid against each other. It was who's got 0:09:55.276 --> 0:09:58.476 the largest penis here kind of thing, and they hate 0:09:58.516 --> 0:10:03.356 each other, so it was all about that. So they 0:10:03.356 --> 0:10:06.556 were bidding against each other. And I don't know why 0:10:06.636 --> 0:10:10.196 I felt that WGCZ in that moment, was a better 0:10:10.276 --> 0:10:14.076 choice than mine Geek. In retrospect, I was dead wrong, 0:10:14.956 --> 0:10:17.076 but I was on a dead wrong running streak at 0:10:17.116 --> 0:10:20.636 that point, because you know, every choice I'd made that 0:10:20.716 --> 0:10:24.996 year had been wrong. The bidding continued, Robert Seafort for 0:10:25.276 --> 0:10:29.476 WGCZ and a guy named Scott Justice for mine Geek. 0:10:29.836 --> 0:10:34.436 He would say here, representing mine Geek, Mine geek bids 0:10:35.036 --> 0:10:38.916 nine million, Sit back down, Seafort slouching in the corner, 0:10:39.196 --> 0:10:43.236 wgc Z nine point two. The judge would say what 0:10:43.756 --> 0:10:46.356 at nine point two? WGCZ I'm sorry, could you say 0:10:46.356 --> 0:10:49.396 what is the company again? I just remember he had 0:10:49.436 --> 0:10:53.156 to past twelve time and Robert was very quiet. It's like, 0:10:53.516 --> 0:10:56.996 w GCC bids nine point eight, I'm sorry, what was 0:10:57.036 --> 0:11:00.876 that bid? The scott Scots, some big guy booming boys. 0:11:01.316 --> 0:11:07.396 Geek bids nine point nine. WGCZ bids ten million. You know, 0:11:07.556 --> 0:11:09.596 it was just back and forth and back and forth. 0:11:09.916 --> 0:11:13.996 So it was a bit theatrical, you know. So then 0:11:14.036 --> 0:11:19.116 the bidding continues, bid it up to eleven. Then Seyffert 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:22.596 piped up eleven point two and they asked for other 0:11:22.676 --> 0:11:28.516 bids and that was it. Eleven point two BAM Penthouse 0:11:28.596 --> 0:11:33.076 was sold to a company that Kelly knew nothing about. 0:11:33.796 --> 0:11:36.436 Kelly assumed that she and Robert would spend loads of 0:11:36.476 --> 0:11:39.836 time together, at least over the next few days, but 0:11:41.156 --> 0:11:44.476 he had other plans. The next thing I remember him 0:11:44.476 --> 0:11:45.836 saying was that he had to get back on a 0:11:45.876 --> 0:11:49.116 plane because he had a dentist's appointment in Prague. And 0:11:49.196 --> 0:11:52.636 I said, you just bought Penthouse. You bought one of 0:11:52.636 --> 0:11:56.036 the most iconic adult brands in the world, and you're 0:11:56.076 --> 0:11:57.996 going to go to a dental appointment. I think you 0:11:58.036 --> 0:12:02.476 need to reset that, don't you. Kelly later discovered that 0:12:02.596 --> 0:12:06.036 Robert had bid for her company on a win. The 0:12:06.076 --> 0:12:08.916 story goes that Robert heard that Penthouse was up for 0:12:09.116 --> 0:12:12.556 at a Friday night dinner party. He jumped on a 0:12:12.556 --> 0:12:16.516 plane to la and by Monday, Robert had bought Penthouse. 0:12:17.076 --> 0:12:20.676 The whole thing took less than seventy two hours. Kelly 0:12:20.756 --> 0:12:24.676 says he barely knew anything about the company's finances. It 0:12:24.836 --> 0:12:28.316 seemed he just wanted to own it. We had a 0:12:28.396 --> 0:12:31.196 lunch the next day to introduce him to everybody, to 0:12:31.196 --> 0:12:34.756 introduce him to the staff. I actually at that point 0:12:34.836 --> 0:12:40.076 felt comfortable with him for two reasons. I understood that 0:12:40.156 --> 0:12:45.676 he didn't know anything about the company, and I had 0:12:45.716 --> 0:12:51.076 a wrong presumption that he would be wise enough to 0:12:51.236 --> 0:12:53.516 allow the people who did understand what was happening to 0:12:53.596 --> 0:12:57.636 do their job. It didn't work out that way. Penthouse 0:12:57.716 --> 0:13:00.516 was broke. It had bills some way just to pay, 0:13:01.396 --> 0:13:07.396 but getting funds from Robert proved tricky, and the first 0:13:07.436 --> 0:13:12.676 oh my god moment was when Robert Seyffert said, I 0:13:12.716 --> 0:13:16.476 don't understand this. Why do I have to pay any money? 0:13:16.916 --> 0:13:21.036 I already paid eleven point two million, But that point 0:13:21.116 --> 0:13:26.196 had to be explained over and over and over again. Now, look, 0:13:26.676 --> 0:13:30.436 Kelly had run Penthouse into bankruptcy, and we're not making 0:13:30.436 --> 0:13:34.156 a judgment here on who was right or wrong. But 0:13:34.236 --> 0:13:36.516 while Kelly was trying to get on the same page 0:13:36.516 --> 0:13:41.316 with Robert, she was hearing things about WGCZ that really 0:13:41.636 --> 0:13:45.876 made her nervous. She started to suspect that Robert wasn't 0:13:45.916 --> 0:13:49.196 actually in charge. It's not like he has access to 0:13:49.236 --> 0:13:53.276 the money of the company. He's a very small part 0:13:53.316 --> 0:13:57.836 of this. Kelly learned there was somebody else behind Robert 0:13:58.236 --> 0:14:00.996 who was in control. The deber I got into it, 0:14:01.076 --> 0:14:06.796 the more concerned I became about just the general level 0:14:06.836 --> 0:14:11.516 of secrecy around the company. That lying about, you know, 0:14:11.556 --> 0:14:14.316 the money house to move sometimes from a personal account, 0:14:14.356 --> 0:14:19.796 sometimes from a business account, sometimes through multiple accounts. That 0:14:19.956 --> 0:14:23.476 sounded a bit sketchy to me. And here we are 0:14:24.396 --> 0:14:27.716 right back where we started. You might remember to take 0:14:27.756 --> 0:14:30.796 from Kelly. It was the very first thing you heard 0:14:30.836 --> 0:14:33.756 at the beginning of our theories. If you play that 0:14:33.796 --> 0:14:37.196 fast and loose in that environment. I have to assume 0:14:37.276 --> 0:14:39.516 that you're playing that fast and loose in every environment, 0:14:40.356 --> 0:14:44.836 and that you're not concerned about all the regulations that 0:14:44.956 --> 0:14:48.396 underpin our world and his world in Europe, and the 0:14:48.436 --> 0:14:52.636 integration of those two worlds. It was a volatile situation 0:14:52.916 --> 0:14:57.356 that turned worse. Kelly was fired in twenty eighteen. Her 0:14:57.396 --> 0:15:00.716 run at Penthouse was over, and the people she thinks 0:15:00.876 --> 0:15:04.196 made the decisions about her future and the future of Penthouse. 0:15:04.836 --> 0:15:07.716 She never met them. All she knew was their names. 0:15:08.316 --> 0:15:12.476 The pack Hos. That's Stephan Paco and his twin sister 0:15:12.556 --> 0:15:16.876 Mallory to be exact, the twins behind the world's most 0:15:16.876 --> 0:15:26.116 popular porn sites. More about them when we return Act 0:15:26.116 --> 0:15:34.636 two the Prague HQ. We've met some mysterious characters in 0:15:34.676 --> 0:15:39.596 the world of porn, but the Paco's they really topped 0:15:39.636 --> 0:15:43.676 the bill. They are the owners of w GCZ and 0:15:43.796 --> 0:15:48.956 Stefan runs the business day to day. Now, one thing 0:15:48.996 --> 0:15:51.036 they do have in common with the owner of their 0:15:51.036 --> 0:15:55.996 biggest rival is you might easily believe they don't exist. 0:15:57.196 --> 0:16:00.796 They are registered as the owners of w GCZ, but 0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:03.756 there is hardly any trace of them on social media. 0:16:04.116 --> 0:16:08.636 No pictures. They send out guys like Robert Seafort to 0:16:08.756 --> 0:16:12.756 do their business in public. There is even some speculation 0:16:12.876 --> 0:16:17.436 online as to whether the twins are actually made up 0:16:18.076 --> 0:16:24.036 affront for someone else. Well, they're not. Mallory handled the 0:16:24.036 --> 0:16:28.236 corporate side. Stepan is the computer whiz. He loves gaming. 0:16:28.916 --> 0:16:30.796 They come from a small town in a region of 0:16:30.836 --> 0:16:34.836 eastern France known for its coal mines and its Burgundy wine. 0:16:35.356 --> 0:16:37.676 They still rely on friends and family from there to 0:16:37.796 --> 0:16:41.916 run their business. Stefan is the one who really blazed 0:16:41.956 --> 0:16:46.396 their path into porn and who is ultimately, we learned, 0:16:46.996 --> 0:16:50.596 in control of the company. He was running online porn 0:16:50.676 --> 0:16:53.796 picture galleries back in two thousand and two. He was 0:16:53.836 --> 0:16:56.676 in his early twenties at the time, a skinny redhead. 0:16:57.356 --> 0:17:02.076 But twenty years on he is the master of more 0:17:02.196 --> 0:17:06.796 internet porn traffic than any other man on earth, and 0:17:07.796 --> 0:17:11.196 no one really knows any about him, not even people 0:17:11.196 --> 0:17:15.996 in the industry. Again, a question I've asked so many 0:17:16.076 --> 0:17:22.876 times over the past year, how is this possible? I 0:17:22.956 --> 0:17:26.236 remember looking up the address of their headquarters some Google Maps, 0:17:26.236 --> 0:17:29.636 and it wasn't quite a Soviet department block that Kelly 0:17:29.676 --> 0:17:32.796 hall In described, but it did look a lot like 0:17:32.836 --> 0:17:36.996 the entrance was down a back alley. I couldn't believe 0:17:37.116 --> 0:17:40.516 one of the world's top ten websites was being run 0:17:40.596 --> 0:17:44.276 out of this building. It just didn't make sense. And 0:17:44.356 --> 0:17:50.716 so I hopped on a plane with our producer, Pete Sail. Okay, 0:17:50.836 --> 0:17:55.116 we're recording, so yeah, just have every bit about where 0:17:55.116 --> 0:17:58.796 we are. And so we arrived in Prague yesterday and 0:17:58.836 --> 0:18:01.516 we're sat down this morning to have a coffee and 0:18:01.556 --> 0:18:04.356 we know that WDCZ is based here in Prague, and 0:18:04.436 --> 0:18:07.276 we just wanted to go and look at their headquarters 0:18:07.436 --> 0:18:09.956 and looked it up on Google Maps, and it turns 0:18:09.956 --> 0:18:13.596 out that it's just next door to our hotel, and 0:18:13.716 --> 0:18:16.156 we actually passed it yesterday when we were going for 0:18:16.236 --> 0:18:21.076 dinner and missed it. We walked by the headquarters of 0:18:21.076 --> 0:18:24.036 what's possibly the world's biggest porn company and we didn't 0:18:24.076 --> 0:18:28.276 even notice. It was a shared building with an open entrance. 0:18:28.916 --> 0:18:32.396 There were company signs plastered on the wall, like for 0:18:32.516 --> 0:18:36.996 a creation tourist bureau, but most of them more names 0:18:37.036 --> 0:18:42.316 of w DCZ subsidiaries. So this was the right spot. 0:18:46.796 --> 0:18:49.316 I did try calling them. I didn't try finding a 0:18:49.356 --> 0:18:54.356 press office, but I didn't have any luck. And so 0:18:54.996 --> 0:18:57.756 I decided to walk in and see if I could 0:18:57.796 --> 0:19:03.916 find anyone to speak to. There was no security, no reception, 0:19:04.836 --> 0:19:08.076 nothing stopping me from walking in. Just the property manager 0:19:08.236 --> 0:19:11.436 who to go out to realize I may not be 0:19:11.556 --> 0:19:17.276 their usual type of visitor. So what happened? So this 0:19:17.516 --> 0:19:19.636 very lovely man, who was getting very nervous about us 0:19:19.636 --> 0:19:22.396 standing around and recording here, he chased me up the stairs. 0:19:23.316 --> 0:19:25.796 But because he's quite much older than me, I did 0:19:25.876 --> 0:19:31.956 manage to find one floor that had a WDCZ sign 0:19:32.036 --> 0:19:34.316 on it, and I knocked on the door and a 0:19:34.356 --> 0:19:38.476 man came out and looked quite confused as to why 0:19:38.556 --> 0:19:41.196 I was there, and I told him I'm a journalist 0:19:41.236 --> 0:19:42.996 and you know, I'm trying to reach out to their 0:19:43.036 --> 0:19:46.116 press office, and he said, I don't think we have one. 0:19:46.436 --> 0:19:49.116 I asked, can I speak to you? He said no? 0:19:50.276 --> 0:19:52.596 And you know, I said, is there? Do you have 0:19:52.636 --> 0:19:54.436 any advice for me? What should I do? And he 0:19:54.516 --> 0:19:57.316 said I don't know. And I walked upstairs as well, 0:19:57.676 --> 0:20:00.556 and to the great dismay of the property manager, who 0:20:00.556 --> 0:20:03.996 had by that time caught up with me, I went 0:20:04.036 --> 0:20:05.916 to knock on some of the doors on the other side, 0:20:06.276 --> 0:20:09.476 and these two young women opened the door. It was 0:20:09.516 --> 0:20:12.476 kind of strange because the door was already open, so 0:20:12.596 --> 0:20:14.676 you know, it wasn't locked. I knocked on the door 0:20:15.356 --> 0:20:17.716 and they said, you know, we have nothing to do 0:20:17.756 --> 0:20:26.876 with the business. Looking back, it was the women that 0:20:26.956 --> 0:20:31.276 stuck in my mind. They were young, blonde, thin, and 0:20:31.396 --> 0:20:34.356 seemed nervous to see me there. I'm not sure who 0:20:34.356 --> 0:20:38.676 they were exactly. Several people. Housins told me that one 0:20:38.676 --> 0:20:43.196 of wgcz's production studios is based in that building. They 0:20:43.236 --> 0:20:48.956 actually shoot porn in their headquarters, and this studio, it 0:20:48.996 --> 0:20:53.196 produces the kind of stuff that anti porn campaigners want banned. 0:20:53.836 --> 0:20:57.156 A lot of it is rough and degrading, and that's 0:20:57.196 --> 0:21:00.436 not just my take, it's the whole point of it. 0:21:00.436 --> 0:21:03.996 It's humiliation porn. The videos shot here are at the 0:21:04.036 --> 0:21:08.356 hardest edge of the industry, the physical extreme. The kind 0:21:08.396 --> 0:21:12.796 of stuff performers told me, crosses the line for them. 0:21:12.956 --> 0:21:16.076 Paco's studio isn't the only one making this kind of porn, 0:21:16.916 --> 0:21:20.036 but it is the biggest name in the genre. His 0:21:20.196 --> 0:21:25.276 subscription site, called anal VIDs, is the go to destination 0:21:25.476 --> 0:21:29.356 for people looking for these kinds of videos. Analvid members 0:21:29.476 --> 0:21:32.796 pay roughly thirty dollars a month for the basic plan 0:21:33.156 --> 0:21:42.876 and they pay with MasterCard and Visa credit cards. How well, technically, 0:21:43.116 --> 0:21:47.436 humiliation pawn isn't banned under Visa and MasterCards core rules, 0:21:47.796 --> 0:21:50.316 you know, all those commandments we told you about in 0:21:50.356 --> 0:21:53.796 the last episode. But the banks and billers they work with, 0:21:53.996 --> 0:21:57.636 the ones who actually process payments for Visa and MasterCard, 0:21:58.276 --> 0:22:01.556 they often take a more conservative view. They say no 0:22:01.836 --> 0:22:04.756 to some of the acts you'll find on Paco's site. 0:22:05.156 --> 0:22:07.836 They don't allow it because they think you will harm 0:22:07.876 --> 0:22:12.796 their reputation, or rather that of Visa and MasterCard. But Paco, 0:22:13.196 --> 0:22:16.476 he has found some way to make the business work. 0:22:17.156 --> 0:22:21.276 And it's not just the paywall sites. Paco's tube sites 0:22:21.596 --> 0:22:25.076 also host content with the least amount of restrictions in 0:22:25.116 --> 0:22:29.316 the industry. That's according to what we've seen, what sources 0:22:29.316 --> 0:22:34.116 have told us. And a spreadsheet, a pawn spreadsheet to 0:22:34.156 --> 0:22:38.276 be exact, made by a performer called Sophie Ladder. She 0:22:38.596 --> 0:22:42.236 meticulously charts the acts and words that might get you 0:22:42.396 --> 0:22:46.796 kicked off adult platforms. Many top sites are covered with 0:22:46.916 --> 0:22:52.476 boxes highlighted in red. No menstrual, blood, no kidnapping, role play, 0:22:52.956 --> 0:22:57.836 no hypnosis. The platforms that stand out as mostly green. 0:22:58.956 --> 0:23:04.396 They are owned by Stefan Paco vomit that's okay, swallowing urine, 0:23:04.636 --> 0:23:12.436 fine blood, no problems, the whole thing confused. US Performers 0:23:12.436 --> 0:23:14.796 like Stoya have told us how tricky it can be 0:23:14.996 --> 0:23:19.716 to navigate complicated rules on porn set by financial institutions. 0:23:20.596 --> 0:23:23.956 The Paco's empire seems to stay on the right side 0:23:23.956 --> 0:23:27.836 of Visan MasterCard while hosting and making some of the 0:23:27.876 --> 0:23:31.956 most extreme content. This industry in general seems to have 0:23:32.076 --> 0:23:34.516 a lot of backstories that if you are not aware 0:23:34.636 --> 0:23:38.396 you're in deep shit, you just don't get some bookings. 0:23:38.436 --> 0:23:41.516 This is Sabian Pneumonia. She is a porn performer who 0:23:41.556 --> 0:23:45.276 has worked for Paco studios, including the one at his headquarters. 0:23:46.036 --> 0:23:50.396 Many people in the industry shy away from speaking publicly 0:23:50.436 --> 0:23:53.756 about their experiences. There's a lot of stake for them. 0:23:53.836 --> 0:23:55.876 If you get on the wrong side of the people 0:23:55.916 --> 0:24:00.276 in charge, it can be hard to get work with Sabian, 0:24:01.116 --> 0:24:04.796 she agreed to talk with me on the record. Sabian 0:24:04.916 --> 0:24:07.076 is covered in tattoos all the way up to her neck, 0:24:07.676 --> 0:24:10.396 and even though her the art brands are as so 0:24:10.516 --> 0:24:14.076 called alternative, meaning it's not always easy to get cast. 0:24:14.556 --> 0:24:18.236 She's quickly become quite a big name. Don't let me 0:24:18.316 --> 0:24:22.596 ask twice, I've been good girl. Oh yeah, come on, 0:24:24.116 --> 0:24:26.156 So how did she become so big, because that's what 0:24:26.236 --> 0:24:29.476 everyone's saying. Everyone's like, she just kind of suddenly came 0:24:29.516 --> 0:24:32.276 in and now you're everywhere, You're involved in everything. So like, 0:24:33.716 --> 0:24:36.836 I mean, I don't I don't really know. I guess 0:24:37.076 --> 0:24:40.436 we're working our asses off. Sabian was a glamor model 0:24:40.476 --> 0:24:44.276 for years, mainly as a hobby, but then she realized 0:24:44.316 --> 0:24:48.316 that the fantasy woman she was cosplaying could actually make 0:24:48.356 --> 0:24:51.436 her quite a bit of money. So for the past 0:24:51.516 --> 0:24:55.116 three years, Sabian's been a full time porn star. In 0:24:55.276 --> 0:24:58.956 that time, she's worked with loads of studios, including Pacos. 0:24:59.596 --> 0:25:02.516 If you talk to people in the industry about his studios, 0:25:03.196 --> 0:25:05.636 they tend to refer to them by an old umbrella 0:25:05.756 --> 0:25:09.996 name Legal Porno, and that work brought her lots of attention. 0:25:10.596 --> 0:25:13.276 I did my two first scenes and my following one's 0:25:13.476 --> 0:25:18.836 crazy just because I was on legal Partner, Sabian says, 0:25:18.876 --> 0:25:23.156 to the studio operating in Paco's headquarters pays well because 0:25:23.236 --> 0:25:26.716 of the physical and mental strain that performers are put under. 0:25:27.556 --> 0:25:30.556 She described what it was like to shoot for the studio. 0:25:31.316 --> 0:25:34.276 We have chosen to include it because we don't want 0:25:34.276 --> 0:25:37.716 to gloss over the fact that the porn industry asks 0:25:37.756 --> 0:25:41.316 a lot of performers. When I speak to people inside 0:25:41.316 --> 0:25:43.516 the industry, everyone's saying like, no one wants to do 0:25:43.596 --> 0:25:46.916 that stuff, Like it's like the perverts outside of the 0:25:46.956 --> 0:25:49.956 industry who want this and we need to supply it. 0:25:50.396 --> 0:25:53.116 I've spoken to people who just like say, like, you 0:25:53.156 --> 0:25:55.396 know what, keep your money, like I'm gonna I'm not 0:25:55.436 --> 0:26:00.316 gonna finish, you know, the shoot here people unfortunately facing 0:26:00.356 --> 0:26:04.236 the situation they have to work on them. One's supply situation. 0:26:04.676 --> 0:26:08.316 Let's be honest. Porn as a thing supposed to supply 0:26:08.436 --> 0:26:12.556 you with the best way of expressing your sexual desires, 0:26:13.036 --> 0:26:20.076 and human beings are known for having weird, skinky sometimes 0:26:20.076 --> 0:26:24.636 super they pray fantasies. I did this and for me, 0:26:25.036 --> 0:26:28.796 it's just gape on with backup dancer period Sabian says 0:26:28.916 --> 0:26:31.156 she thinks there's a demand for this kind of porn 0:26:31.236 --> 0:26:36.076 from viewers who just want to see women degraded. That's it. 0:26:36.716 --> 0:26:39.436 The girl never had it. Let's see how quickly will 0:26:39.516 --> 0:26:42.836 make her cry. I should point out Sabian is one 0:26:42.876 --> 0:26:45.916 of many performers who have chosen to perform this kind 0:26:45.956 --> 0:26:48.916 of porn. She knew exactly what she was getting into. 0:26:49.556 --> 0:26:53.356 She actually did some in depth research watching hours of 0:26:53.436 --> 0:26:57.916 content on Paco's side. But the industry is full of 0:26:58.156 --> 0:27:01.996 very young people, especially in Prague, which is one of 0:27:02.036 --> 0:27:06.756 Europe's porn production hubs. Many performers come from countries like 0:27:07.036 --> 0:27:11.236 Ukraine and Russia and don't speak Czech or English, and 0:27:11.356 --> 0:27:15.196 more importantly, they don't have rights to work in EU countries, 0:27:15.836 --> 0:27:18.836 which makes them more dependent on whoever helped them get 0:27:18.836 --> 0:27:22.276 the gig in the first place. The point is it's 0:27:22.316 --> 0:27:26.156 hard to imagine that everybody can do or does as 0:27:26.236 --> 0:27:30.796 much research as Sabian did going into it. Another quick 0:27:30.796 --> 0:27:34.916 warning here, Sabian is about to describe in explicit terms 0:27:35.236 --> 0:27:38.596 some of the things she experienced shooting for Paco Studios. 0:27:40.036 --> 0:27:44.076 We can blame them for many things, but I don't 0:27:44.076 --> 0:27:47.516 think any of people who broke on the scene stand 0:27:47.556 --> 0:27:51.236 on front of the mirror and be like tomorrow, they 0:27:51.236 --> 0:27:54.196 will piss on me, they will fuck me hard, My 0:27:54.316 --> 0:27:57.076 ass will be sure. You know, how can I avoid 0:27:57.276 --> 0:28:00.956 breaking internally, how I will feel about myself after that 0:28:01.156 --> 0:28:05.516 all happened. Even though Sabian says shooting for Paco Studio 0:28:05.676 --> 0:28:09.196 put her body in danger, she doesn't think the making 0:28:09.196 --> 0:28:11.956