1
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

2
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:15,520
Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,

3
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,119
Speaker 1: and today on the show Big Mouths animals with absolutely

4
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:25,120
Speaker 1: animalistic appetites, from the stretchiest mouth the reptiles, to seat

5
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,680
Speaker 1: creatures that are mostly mouths. We're talking about the most

6
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,479
Speaker 1: ghoulish gluttons on the globe. Discover this and more as

7
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 1: we answer the age old question what the heck is

8
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 1: wrong with Heron's joining me today is food writer, host

9
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,560
Speaker 1: of the podcast Smart Mouth, and expert on all things edible,

10
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 1: Catherine Spires.

11
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 2: Welcome, Thank you so much for having me. I love

12
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:48,200
Speaker 2: doing this show.

13
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 1: I am excited to talk to you about this. I uh,

14
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 1: I'm always impressed with animals that just go for it

15
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 1: when they're eating, Like you would think, hey, don't you

16
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,280
Speaker 1: want a smaller nibble maybe, and they're like, no, I

17
00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,840
Speaker 1: want the whole meal in my mouth immediately.

18
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you don't know what's gonna happen exactly, so

19
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 2: you got to get it in while you can.

20
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 1: Right exactly. You don't know if someone's gonna catch you

21
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: trying to get this thing. Someone's gonna steal your food

22
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,080
Speaker 1: from right in front of you, so you've got to

23
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 1: get the whole thing down your gullet within seconds, which

24
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 1: is yeah, my sort of That's how my brain interprets

25
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 1: when I'm eating pizza, like what I have to do,

26
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,520
Speaker 1: which burns the roof of my mouth, and then two

27
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 1: seconds later I forget that pain and then continue.

28
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 2: I know, that's a hard one when something's so delicious

29
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,679
Speaker 2: or you just feel so panicky about it. You know,

30
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 2: my dad was Irish Catholic and grew up in an

31
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 2: Irish Catholic neighborhood and everyone had a million kids, and

32
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 2: that is the way humans eat. Also when there's a

33
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 2: lot of people at the table, a lot of people

34
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 2: that you don't care about manner in front of, and

35
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 2: they still kind of do it to this day. It's

36
00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 2: still kind of like a slightly panicky situation.

37
00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, just food around hyenas at a carcass exactly. Yes, yes, No,

38
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: I mean I think anyone who's had sort of a

39
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,800
Speaker 1: buffet style thing and then you're competing with all your

40
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,359
Speaker 1: siblings and your cousins and your aunts and your uncles,

41
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, it can things can get messy.

42
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, especially if there's something highly prized like clams.

43
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 2: They're from Seattle, and you know, my everyone's memories of

44
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 2: like being allotted three clams. Are there any animals that

45
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 2: think about food like that? Like, are there any mom

46
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:47,440
Speaker 2: animals that allocate food that thoughtfully? I mean, it's kind

47
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 2: of mean to only let people have three clams, but

48
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,080
Speaker 2: I mean that's an interesting question.

49
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,520
Speaker 1: There are I mean, certainly birds will feed their offspring,

50
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,040
Speaker 1: and if they have multiple offspring, they tried to feed

51
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 1: where you know, many offspring, some bird species will favor

52
00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:10,079
Speaker 1: one offspring over the other and feed them more. There

53
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 1: are certainly animals who will starve themselves in order to

54
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,799
Speaker 1: feed their offspring. So there are so many different ways

55
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,080
Speaker 1: in which animals will partition out food. In fact, some animals,

56
00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,400
Speaker 1: like fish or frogs, will even eat some of their

57
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,080
Speaker 1: offspring just to make sure there's enough food to go around.

58
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Yeah, yeah, there are lots of ways of

59
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 2: handling this indeed.

60
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: And so our first animal we're talking about, it's one

61
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 1: of one of my personal favorite snakes. It's an egg

62
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 1: eating snake. So all eggs eating snakes are quite impressive

63
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 1: in terms of their ability to swallow whole eggs larger

64
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,440
Speaker 1: than their heads. But a genus of cute little snakes

65
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 1: called dazzy Peltis are the snakes with the highest prey

66
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 1: size to their own size ratio in the snake world,

67
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: meaning that relative to their body size, they can swallow

68
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 1: the largest prey, but that prey is exclusively eggs, so

69
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:19,279
Speaker 1: they have.

70
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,480
Speaker 2: Like a mono diet.

71
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:29,320
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, they eat only eggs, typically bird eggs, and

72
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 1: they are really they cannot really eat anything else. They're

73
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 1: highly highly specialized.

74
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 2: And how often do they starve or is this something

75
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 2: that's easy for them to get.

76
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,640
Speaker 1: To because they live in areas and are specialized to

77
00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 1: find bird nests. I think that they are fairly capable

78
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: of feeding themselves, Like it's one of the things like

79
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,039
Speaker 1: when you're really niche, you have to be really good

80
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 1: and specialized at getting that food. But they they happen

81
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 1: to be really good at getting these eggs and specializing

82
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 1: in it to the point where they actually have basically

83
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:14,160
Speaker 1: no teeth. They really can't eat anything other than eggs.

84
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 1: They're completely harmless to humans. They have no teeth, they

85
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 1: have no venom. They're quite cute. I think some people

86
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 1: might disagree, but they will they're really harmless, and they

87
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 1: try to pretend like they're tough. So they'll hiss by

88
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,159
Speaker 1: rubbing their scales together, producing this striation that makes a

89
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,560
Speaker 1: hissing sound, and then they'll lunge with a fake bite,

90
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 1: but they don't actually bite. They just have their mouth

91
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,039
Speaker 1: kind of like open and then bonk against you harmlessly

92
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,440
Speaker 1: because they can't. They really have no bite to their bark,

93
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,800
Speaker 1: like there's nothing they can do. They're just trying to

94
00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 1: intimidate you and pretend like they're much tougher snake than

95
00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 1: they actually are.

96
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,160
Speaker 2: Okay, that is pretty endearing. Do people keep these as pets?

97
00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,599
Speaker 1: They do? Indeed, yes, it's a fairly popular snake to

98
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,599
Speaker 1: keep as a pet. I think in addition to them

99
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 1: being you know, not dangerous to handle, it's also if

100
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,240
Speaker 1: you feel bad about feeding snakes live food, this one

101
00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 1: is easy to feed because you feed it eggs typically

102
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,560
Speaker 1: not chicken eggs. They might be a little too big,

103
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 1: especially for the smaller species, but you know, smaller eggs

104
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:36,680
Speaker 1: like quail eggs, although, as we'll talk about, these snakes

105
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 1: in the wild can eat eggs much larger than quail eggs.

106
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,559
Speaker 2: So oh gosh, okay, So I see what you're saying

107
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 2: about it being cute. When you look at the picture

108
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 2: of just the snake. I think a lot of it

109
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,640
Speaker 2: has to do with it's not huge and its eyes

110
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 2: are disproportionately large. Yeah, it has that like Disney effect.

111
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 2: But right below that you have a picture of it

112
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 2: eating an egg, and I don't care for that image.

113
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:05,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little it's a little gut churning. So this,

114
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,799
Speaker 1: the one that is pictured, is actually the Ganza's egg eater.

115
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 1: It has a head that's about the diameter of an

116
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,280
Speaker 1: adult human's finger, Like, depending on how beefy your hand

117
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 1: is either like your thumb or your pointer finger. H

118
00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 1: And despite being so slender, it can swallow whole bird eggs.

119
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,800
Speaker 1: And they are able to grotesquely distin their mouths and

120
00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: their bodies in order to swallow eggs many many times

121
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,680
Speaker 1: the size of their own heads. It's like, yeah, it's

122
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 1: like if I guess what would be like if we

123
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,679
Speaker 1: tried to swallow an entire watermelon. I think that would

124
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 1: be sort of the the relative size here.

125
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,640
Speaker 2: Wow wow, wow wow nature man. Yeah, I have a

126
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,840
Speaker 2: question that this is some story that my sister told

127
00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 2: me fifteen years ago. I think she in college lived

128
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 2: in a house with a bunch of other hippies and

129
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 2: one of them moved out but left his pet snake.

130
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:10,720
Speaker 2: And it wasn't a little guy like this, It was

131
00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 2: a big one. I don't know anything about snakes. But

132
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 2: she would have to go to pet smart or whatever

133
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 2: and get mice to feed to it. And she wanted

134
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 2: to like get into the whole snake world. She had

135
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 2: this snake now, so she went to some her patological

136
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,839
Speaker 2: society meetings. Is that the correct? That's correct? Okay. So

137
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 2: it was sort of just an enthusiast group and she

138
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,480
Speaker 2: was told the story that it was about, like when

139
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 2: they were talking about the best way to care for

140
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,920
Speaker 2: your pet snake and interact with your pet snake. And

141
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,200
Speaker 2: this couple had gotten pet snake medium to bigs. I mean,

142
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 2: I don't know how big they get in nature, but

143
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 2: like big for a pet. And they decided that they

144
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 2: weren't going to keep it in a tank because that

145
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 2: was cruel. That they were going to treat it basically

146
00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 2: like a puppy, including letting it sleep with them in

147
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 2: their bed. And uh, the snake stopped eating but kept growing,

148
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 2: so they took it to the vet, and the vet

149
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,560
Speaker 2: was like, do you keep this snake in a tank?

150
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 2: And they were like, no, we let it sleep with us.

151
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,040
Speaker 2: We let it go where it wants. And it was like, okay.

152
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 2: So what snakes do is they when they're preparing to

153
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,800
Speaker 2: eat something really large, is they like stop eating so

154
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 2: they have the appetite, but they grow to like accommodate

155
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,319
Speaker 2: the size of their prey and the snake is preparing

156
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,400
Speaker 2: to eat you. I that's the story.

157
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 1: I'm I don't believe that is true. Uh, snakes, I

158
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 1: do not believe have that much foresight. I've heard stories

159
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: kind of like this before, where it's like a snake

160
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,120
Speaker 1: is sort of trying to measure you, like a pet

161
00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,320
Speaker 1: snake trying to measure you to see if you're it's

162
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: big enough to eat you, or it'll stop eating to

163
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,959
Speaker 1: like kind of save room for you. Snakes really aren't

164
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:06,200
Speaker 1: plan like that. Burmese pythons certainly they can kill people

165
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,960
Speaker 1: because they are, you know, constrictors. They can constrict around you.

166
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 1: Both constrictors can constrict and hurt you. But I do

167
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,800
Speaker 1: not know of any cases of a pet snake eating

168
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: an adult. I believe there might be cases of a

169
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,200
Speaker 1: pet snake killing an adult, Okay, And in terms of

170
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 1: like feeding, they will usually feed very intermittently, so they

171
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 1: can have a large meal and then basically not eat

172
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,680
Speaker 1: for many months. But I don't believe that is because

173
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,120
Speaker 1: it is saving room for a large meal. It's just

174
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't really need to eat. Once it's had a

175
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,719
Speaker 1: large meal, it can metabolize that for quite a bit

176
00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 1: of time, and then it will after a while to

177
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,560
Speaker 1: eat something else once it needs to.

178
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 2: Okay, but yeah, it makes me feel a little better,

179
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 2: a little better about snakes.

180
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 1: Yes, but you know, in terms of like snakes, so

181
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,440
Speaker 1: like what's interesting is even though these guys are pretty

182
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 1: small and cute looking and other than when they're like

183
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,920
Speaker 1: distended around an egg, compared to like the Burmese python

184
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 1: or other snakes, they have the stretchiest, most expandable.

185
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,920
Speaker 2: Jaws relative to their body side.

186
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 1: So even though the Burmese pythec python has been known

187
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,520
Speaker 1: to eat like goats, this snake, pound for pound, can

188
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,960
Speaker 1: eat larger prey than any other snake that has been studied.

189
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 1: And so they really basically just stretch their mouth over

190
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,200
Speaker 1: the egg like a sock going over a foot. And

191
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 1: this is why being toothless helps them like they don't

192
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 1: want that getting hot on the egg. They also have

193
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: like these ridges on the inside of their mouth that

194
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:11,000
Speaker 1: helps grip onto the egg. And the reason they can

195
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,560
Speaker 1: stretch their mouth out like a son is that their

196
00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 1: lower jaw comes in two sections and it's connected by

197
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:25,200
Speaker 1: very stretchy connective tissue that can expand like elastic, like

198
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,439
Speaker 1: a rubber band. And so there's not like our jaw

199
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 1: is in one piece, and so if we tried to

200
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 1: stretch our mouth out, there's a limit. Our jaw is

201
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: also fused to our upper jaw, and that's another problem

202
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,440
Speaker 1: with snakes. They have unfused jaws. And then in addition

203
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,320
Speaker 1: to that, that separated mandible allows their jaw to stretch

204
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: out even more, and so it will take in this

205
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,800
Speaker 1: egg and like there's sort of with the movements of

206
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,280
Speaker 1: the jaws, the kind of ridge like pattern on the

207
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,560
Speaker 1: inside of the cheeks and muscle movements pulls the egg

208
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 1: into the esophagus and they can actually close their mouth

209
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,840
Speaker 1: and then have this hole. It'll just be this like

210
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: thin snake and then like an egg shape like inside

211
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 1: their throat. You might have the question of, well, how

212
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,319
Speaker 1: do they digest this egg, it's still got its shell

213
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:24,600
Speaker 1: on it. They actually have these bone like protrusions on

214
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 1: the inside of their bodies that are actually part of

215
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 1: their spine, and they use muscles to push the egg

216
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: into these bony protrusions and that breaks the egg, and

217
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,720
Speaker 1: then they squeeze the egg until like all of the

218
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,520
Speaker 1: edible egg material, the yolk, the white, everything gets pushed

219
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:49,720
Speaker 1: out and into the rest of their digestive tract. And

220
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,959
Speaker 1: then once they've basically squeezed everything out of this egg,

221
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 1: they regurgitate the shell. And they're remarkably efficient, like they

222
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 1: leave very little of the egg that is not she else.

223
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,000
Speaker 1: So they basically it's like they've eaten a pistachio now

224
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 1: and they're just spitting out the shell and uh they

225
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 1: it's just it's just kind of an incredible feat for

226
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 1: such a small animal, and it's all they can do. Essentially,

227
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,640
Speaker 1: they they exist to reproduce and process eggs.

228
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 2: That's it. Wait, So I've been thinking about this a

229
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 2: lot because there's been a lot of talk of how

230
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 2: there are mosquitos in Los Angeles now and apparently throughout

231
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 2: history up till about five years ago, there were not

232
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 2: so a lot of talk of like, can you get

233
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 2: rid of an entire species if it doesn't seem like

234
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 2: it's contributing that much to the ecosystem. Turns out mosquitoes

235
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,000
Speaker 2: actually feed a lot of other animals. But what are

236
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 2: these snakes? What do we need these snakes for?

237
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,720
Speaker 1: E mean, what does humanity need these snakes for?

238
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:52,920
Speaker 2: What?

239
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: No, the antalcopulation, the plant planet. I mean, they are

240
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 1: food for animals. So like mosquitoes, they provide food for

241
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: any kind of snake eating animals. They you know, it's

242
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 1: it's they may eat some bird eggs, and some birds

243
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: might actually eat them. They're small enough to be eaten by,

244
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 1: you know, many birds of prey. We're actually going to

245
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 1: talk about a bird who likes to eat lots of

246
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: different snakes, maybe not the egg eating snake in particular,

247
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, the local ecology. It's interesting.

248
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 1: But like when you have something that eats like an egg,

249
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 1: there are a lot of species of birds where they

250
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 1: may have a lot of eggs, and then if they

251
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,480
Speaker 1: all hatch, you may actually have too many nestlings, and

252
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 1: some of the nestlings may get sick or even get

253
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 1: pushed out of the nest. So there may be some

254
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,600
Speaker 1: benefit even to birds. For an egg eating snake, now

255
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 1: a lot of birds will also develop strategies to prevent

256
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 1: snakes from eating their eggs, because if a snake goes

257
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: and eats all their eggs, that's not good for the bird.

258
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 1: And if you have a disproportionate say you have like

259
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,120
Speaker 1: it's all about balance. Really, it's like, you know, wolf

260
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 1: populations and deer populations. For instance, if you have too

261
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 1: many wolves, that's bad for the deer. You have too

262
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,640
Speaker 1: few wolves that can actually be bad for the deer

263
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 1: as well, surprisingly, because if you have too dense a

264
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,320
Speaker 1: population of deer, they can get spread illness more easily.

265
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 1: And so wolves can actually help prey populations thrive just

266
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: as much as the prey populations can help the wolves thrive.

267
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,640
Speaker 1: So while I don't know like the exact specifics of

268
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 1: this dynamic between egg eating snakes and birds, I wouldn't

269
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 1: be surprised if it was a similar thing where it's like,

270
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,520
Speaker 1: you know, having the egg eating snakes in balance with

271
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 1: the birds can actually help control the bird population such

272
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 1: that there's not too much competition for food or.

273
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 2: Spread of disease.

274
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,400
Speaker 1: So these relationships are very even when they're antagonistic, they

275
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 1: can balance out in ways that actually creates a relatively

276
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 1: stable ecosystem.

277
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,159
Speaker 2: That's so interesting.

278
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,960
Speaker 1: They're all so cute. So in my opinion, I was.

279
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,639
Speaker 2: Gonna say, are there any animals that you're afraid of?

280
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 1: Hmm? I mean they're I mean I'm afraid of a

281
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 1: lot of animals. I'm afraid of horses because they can

282
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 1: kill me if they're having a bad day. I love horses.

283
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,960
Speaker 1: I think they're sweet, gentle animals. I'm amazed that they

284
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 1: don't destroy us at every turn. But if I'm face

285
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,120
Speaker 1: to face with a large horse, I'm intimidated. Maybe intimidated

286
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 1: is the right word. I'm scared, like I'm I think

287
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 1: like I am afraid of animal. Like if I see

288
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,440
Speaker 1: a snake on the ground, my initial response is fear

289
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,199
Speaker 1: because I don't know, you know, It's like I have

290
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,160
Speaker 1: an instinctive responsive fear. And then once I know whether

291
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,880
Speaker 1: it's like venomous or not, then my my feelings change essentially.

292
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,360
Speaker 1: But I'm not like looking at a photo of any animal,

293
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:10,600
Speaker 1: I don't feel discussed towards anything except for cockroaches and silverfish.

294
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:15,240
Speaker 1: It's a type of insect, and I think it's because

295
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 1: I associate those earwigs too to some degree, so because

296
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 1: I think I associate those with them getting in my

297
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,399
Speaker 1: cereal boxes and being grossed around food, So I have

298
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 1: a negative Like once I found half of a silverfish

299
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 1: in a bowl of cheerios that I was eating, so

300
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 1: I was done with them, yeah after that. So it's

301
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 1: more of a disgust response I think to certain pests

302
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,479
Speaker 1: that actively get into my food. But it's also like

303
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: I can see, like I have had mice as pets,

304
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 1: and I like mice. But if I see a mice

305
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,360
Speaker 1: scurry across the room, or like when I was camping,

306
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 1: have a mouse run across my foot, I have a

307
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 1: reaction of dismay because it's not a context in which

308
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 1: I want to see the mouth.

309
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense. Okay, So when.

310
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 1: We get back, we are going to talk about a

311
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 1: fish that you probably don't want to see in most contexts,

312
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 1: except for maybe a culinary one. So we will be

313
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 1: right back. So, Catherine, are you familiar with monkfish in cuisine?

314
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 2: Oh? In cuisine, absolutely, yes. It's it's a delicacy. People

315
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 2: love it, both the flesh and the monkfish liver is

316
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,959
Speaker 2: also something that some people really try and get their

317
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 2: hands on.

318
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Have you ever had it? No?

319
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 2: Uh? Have I? I don't think that I have. I

320
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 2: tend not to, you know, try to do any stunt eating,

321
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 2: which done in the context of Los Angeles is what

322
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 2: it would be. So No, I've just had like monkfish,

323
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 2: the flesh, the flesh.

324
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 1: What does just the ordinary flesh of the monk fish

325
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 1: taste like in your opinion, like.

326
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,719
Speaker 2: A, it's a really good whitefish, so you know, and

327
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 2: it's whitefish, as Miles was, probably whatever seasonings.

328
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, absorbs, absorbs the lime or whatever you put on it. Yeah,

329
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: I've heard it's like got almost like a lobstery texture.

330
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 1: Is that true or is that just is that just

331
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: restaurants trying to talk it up a little bit.

332
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that is not my recollection of it at all. Yeah,

333
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 2: because Long to.

334
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 1: Me has a very specific, not fishy texture.

335
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: It's kind of you would think you wouldn't want you

336
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't want a lobster texture in a fish because it

337
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 2: wouldn't that mean the fish was very rebby I. I. Yeah,

338
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 2: this is not resonating with me. But okay, so this.

339
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: Is I think this is just trying Maybe it's advert

340
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,919
Speaker 1: marketing for the monkfish to make it.

341
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and they do do that, And I

342
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 2: feel like it's different enough from sea bass that they

343
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 2: can't call it sea bass, even though they call just

344
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: about every other fish in the ocean sea bass when

345
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 2: it's on a restaurant menu, but not monkfish. It's two different.

346
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've seen I also, like, in researching this,

347
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 1: like I've seen certain publications claiming, Oh, this is sustainable,

348
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: and then other publications saying, no, it's definitely not sustainable.

349
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 2: I think it's it's so.

350
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: Hard when you're researching because I eat fish, but I

351
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 1: like to eat fish that if I can, eating fish

352
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: that is more sustainable and also not full of mercury

353
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 1: is a plus.

354
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 2: That's such a winning combination.

355
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's really hard to do research on it

356
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: because I don't think, you know, it's always easy to

357
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 1: get the correct information on this, Like I've seen sources

358
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 1: saying like, well, their populations are stable enough such that

359
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: it's sustainable, or sources saying like, well, but a lot

360
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: of them are caught via trawling, which which is definitely

361
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: not sustainable, because that's that's a method that kicks up

362
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: a lot of the like coral and sand and stuff

363
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: and destroys the seafloor. So I honestly have I feel

364
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: like the jury's out for me whether to eat this fish.

365
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the seafood industry in particular is very secretive.

366
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: They've got a lot of stuff going on that they

367
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 2: don't want us to know about. And then that just

368
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: raises more questions about like, well, what is sustainable for you?

369
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: I think two people both operating in good faith can

370
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 2: come up with a different definition of sustainable, because some

371
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: people are gonna say, well, if the people catching this

372
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: fish are literal slaves, that's probably not good. Yeah, I mean,

373
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 2: and I don't know if that's true for monkfish. But

374
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 2: there's just it's like some people truly believe that farmed

375
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: fish is better than wild and vice versa. And it's

376
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: just to eat ethically, you have to put so much

377
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 2: thought and effort into it. It's really hard.

378
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if you're even if you're vegetarian or vegan.

379
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: I think it's still like knowing which kinds of crops

380
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: are are sustainable and like what the working conditions for

381
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: farmers are. It's not that and I don't think it's

382
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: not worthwhile to try to research it. Yeah, I just

383
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 1: think it's something where it like when we put it

384
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: on the consumer to figure this stuff out, it is

385
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: so there's so many hurdles, and I feel like we

386
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 1: need a better system of regulation so that it's not

387
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: like a consumer at the grocery store going like, oh, monkfish,

388
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Well, I guess I'll do half an hour

389
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: of research while standing next to the fish aisle to

390
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: see if yeah, this is okay to eat, and then

391
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: after thirty minutes, not knowing whether or not, it's like.

392
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: Eat, I know, and see I am that person who

393
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: will stand there researching in the grocery store. But like,

394
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 2: I don't have kids, like I have the time to

395
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 2: do stuff like that. You're totally right. Putting on the

396
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: consumer is way too much, and especially because you know,

397
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: we don't have any consumer education in school, so we

398
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: don't even know what we're looking for.

399
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, absolutely, I mean knowing and also just

400
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: like things about like safety, like knowing which types of

401
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 1: fish tend to have more mercury in them, because it's

402
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: like when you eat fish, you're like, well this is healthy,

403
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: this is a healthy meat. You know, It's like uh,

404
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: and it I mean people aren't wrong because it's like,

405
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, fish has a lot of like omega, you know,

406
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: three proteins in it. It's a it's a protein that

407
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: is not typically as you know, full of like say cholesterol,

408
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: as say like red meat. It's got a lot of

409
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: good stuff in it. But then if you're getting a

410
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: huge dose of mercury.

411
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it kind of wipes everything else out, right.

412
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: But then there are certain types of fish that have

413
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: less mercury and some that have more. And then it's

414
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: just like you have to do this cost benefit of like, well,

415
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: if I eat this fish for my health, how much

416
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: mercury am I getting? If it's a low enough dose,

417
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: it actually is worth it to eat that fish to

418
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: be healthy. And so it's just I think it's some

419
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: and I mean I'm with you, Like I feel like

420
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: I do, like an extensive amount of research on food

421
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: and both in terms of health and like the ethics,

422
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: and often I'm just become more confused.

423
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 2: After I do it, right.

424
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, So it's I I guess it's a

425
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: little bit of a tangent, but it's just like it's

426
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: so hard to know. So I'm I've never personally eaten monkfish,

427
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: but it seems it seems interesting because it's because it's

428
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: definitely not the typical whitefish that I see around.

429
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's it's its own thing. It is good man.

430
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 2: I just keep starting at this picture, and unlike the

431
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: snake picture, I was like, I'm just not going to

432
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 2: look at this monkfish. I'm like, you're really something, yes, guy.

433
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: So now we're no pun intended.

434
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: But now we're going to get into the meat of

435
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: this issue, which is that the monkfish is an absolutely

436
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: bananas monster from the deep that I think isn't It's like,

437
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about sharks, we talk a lot

438
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: about deep sea anglers and stuff, and we have these

439
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: these ideas of like these monstrous fish. This one, I

440
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: feel like doesn't get as much attention for how monstrous

441
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: it is, but it is just as disturbing as the

442
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: deep sea angler without as much pr So these are

443
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: also known as frogfish and sea devils. Unsurprising if you're

444
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: looking at them. Uh, they are actually in the same

445
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: order as deep sea anglerfishuh. And they have a lot

446
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: of similar qualities, but they are much flatter, wider, They

447
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: tend not to live as deep when compared to certain

448
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: species of deep sea anglerfish, but they still live on

449
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: the seafloor.

450
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: Uh.

451
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: And they are absolute monsters. They have these huge, wide

452
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: monster mouths. In fact, like most of their body is

453
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: like their mouth and their head and their jaws. Like

454
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: that's like none eighty percent of their body is like

455
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: jaws and face essentially.

456
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, this, you know. I scrolled down and I saw

457
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: the picture below of the head on one that you

458
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: have taken from above. Yeah, that is nightmarish. Well, I

459
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 2: don't know why the above from above angle looks so

460
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: much scarier.

461
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: I think it's because you can see the proportion that

462
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: it is basically like mostly a mouth and then a

463
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: small body attached to it.

464
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the joker of fish or something. It

465
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: is kind of a joker.

466
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: They also have this weird beard of this like fringe

467
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: like beard of barbells growing on their chins. It's to

468
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: help with camouflage. Oh, I forgot to put a photo

469
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: of that in there. You deserve to see that, because

470
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: it's actually a little funny. I'm seeing recipes. That's not

471
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: what I want. There we go and I'll include this

472
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: in the show notes.

473
00:27:59,560 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: Too.

474
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: I just added a picture of a living monk fish

475
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: with its funny little beard.

476
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: Oh, that is a funny little beard. I haven't I

477
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 2: don't think I've ever seen the beard before. Does it

478
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: disintegrate or when it dies? Why have I mean this

479
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: kind of makes it endearing looking Grandpa.

480
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: Monkeys don't have as prominent like this is a species

481
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: that might not be fished as much. It's okay, this

482
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: one has a more prominent one the other species. It's

483
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: also the beard is like generally the same color as

484
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: the rest of the skin, so like once it's out

485
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: of the water, it's probably just kind of flattened against

486
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: its so you can't really see it. Okay, Okay, I

487
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 1: think all the species do have those little protrusions, just

488
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: like some species are more prominent. This one definitely is

489
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: giving me sort of like a Quaker oats man beard,

490
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, like a chin strap neck beard.

491
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, which could go either way.

492
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: So they live on the seafloor at depths ranging from

493
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: about two thousand to over three thousand feet, so that's

494
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: around six hundred to one thousand meters in both Atlantic

495
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: and Mediterranean waters. There's a few different species. Certain species

496
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: such as the Lofius americanas also known as the all

497
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: mouth American anglerfish, which I love that name, can grow

498
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: up to around fifty pounds or nearly twenty three kilograms

499
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: and live up to around thirty years old, so they

500
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: can be chunky and hunky.

501
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, wow, that's impressive.

502
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: They can also use their pectoral fins to walk along

503
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: the seafloor and depending on their and you're making a faith.

504
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: You don't like that. Don't tell me about fish walking.

505
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: It's so weird, like fears about animals and stuff can

506
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: be so non sensical. It's totally meaningless to my life

507
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: that monkfish can walk across the ocean floor. But for

508
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: some reason it's really freaking me out. There is this dog.

509
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: Related to like the sight hounds, like the Afghan hands.

510
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: I forgot what it's called, but it's borzoi.

511
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: That's it.

512
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: That's it, and normally very cute. I have seen pictures

513
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: of borzoi on their hind legs and it freaks me out.

514
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I love dogs. I love all dogs,

515
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: Borzoi included. They're silly little noodle doggies with long noodle faces.

516
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 1: But this dog, which is already quite long and tall,

517
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: and it looks a little bit like an Afghan hound,

518
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: but it has this really long snout and then when

519
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: it walks on it's hind legs, I'm afraid of just

520
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: being killed. I don't know why.

521
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: It's uh no, yes, absolutely, I'm looking. I googled borzoi

522
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: on hind legs and it looks like a cryptid. Yes, absolutely, it.

523
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: Looks like some kind of weird human has dressed themselves

524
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: as a dog and with only the worst intentions.

525
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,239
Speaker 2: That is what it looks like.

526
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: So I get it when like animals are normally not scary,

527
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: but in certain contexts they are for sure. So yes, Unfortunately,

528
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: monkfish do walk on their fins on the ocean floor.

529
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: They will hide themselves among the sand rocks or seaweed,

530
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: depending on their environment, and they're basically at this point

531
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: living mouths that will hide and wait for something to

532
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: come close. And what they actually have, like their anglerfish relatives,

533
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: is a lure, and so it's a filament on top

534
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: of their head. It's actually a modified fin that has

535
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: a bulb on the end of it. So it's basically

536
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: this long, skinny thing with a bulb on the end

537
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: that they can move around kind of wiggle, and they

538
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: move it around, and as soon as the fish comes

539
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: up and gives it a little nibble, that activates the

540
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: mouth and they use their wide, expandable jaws to grab

541
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: the fish and suck it inwards. And a charming little

542
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: detail is that with the mini pointy needle like teeth,

543
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: they're all facing inwards like towards its belly, they can

544
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: actually sort of be flat, like flattened a little bit,

545
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: and so that means that they can suck the fish in.

546
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 1: But then if the fish tries to get out and

547
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: go the other direction, it gets caught on the teeth.

548
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: So it's like a one way. It's you know, like

549
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: when you're driving on those like spikes like out of

550
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: like a parking lot or something, so you can drive

551
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: one way but not the other way. Yeah, that's how

552
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: these fish mouths work.

553
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: Is that where we got the idea?

554
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: Someone like pulled up one of these fish and it's like,

555
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: I've got a great idea for parking that way. Maybe,

556
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, animals can be the mother of invention.

557
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: They can be So what animals eat?

558
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: Monkfish, humans, right, and I probably larger fish, I think

559
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: humans are their main predators though, we're so strange.

560
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah we are. I guess I just keep wanting

561
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: to know, making sure that these animals get got too.

562
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: They do, they do for sure. They are able, though,

563
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: to swallow prey as large as their whole bodies, because apparently,

564
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: even though their abdomen is relatively small compared to their heads,

565
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of like elastic and expandable like a snake.

566
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: So they can just kind of like eat a whole

567
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: fish that's pretty much as big as they are.

568
00:33:54,120 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: No problem, no problem. Yeah, I mean what about But

569
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: I know that they are deep in the ocean, But

570
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: has has a human ever gotten hurt by a monkfish?

571
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not going to kill a human. They

572
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: can't like eat a whole human. That's not going to happen.

573
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: A person may have gotten bitten by one, and I'm

574
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: sure that hurts.

575
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: I would imagine, But no, these.

576
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: Things aren't trying to eat people. That's not happened. Okay, okay,

577
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: that nightmare you can you know, Yeah.

578
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: I've never monkfish. Don't scare me. Yeah, No, I think

579
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 2: we're good. We're past the snakes. I am all good.

580
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: The thing is like once you've eaten an animal, can

581
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: it really scare you again? Because it's like, you know,

582
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm actually the apex predator. I ate you.

583
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: Interesting. I guess we have to eat everything in find out.

584
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: That was Darwin's idea.

585
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Actually, though, I think I'm ninety nine percent

586
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: sure I have eaten snake before when I was in

587
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: middle school, and they still scare me. I.

588
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: You know what, I have a similar story. I someone

589
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: served what they claimed was snake during some kind of

590
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: school project about snakes. I think it was chicken. I

591
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: don't think it was snake. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they lied,

592
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: calling you out, calling you out, Julie.

593
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: It was a fellow student doing a presentation.

594
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just can't imagine where they would have sourced

595
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: the snake meat. So I'm pretty sure it was chicken.

596
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: I tried it. It was good, but it seemed like

597
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: it was definitely chicken.

598
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if if her parents had bought her

599
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: real snake to cook and serve to people, that would

600
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 2: have been like one of the more expensive school projects.

601
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 2: It's ever true, It's true.

602
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: I for a long time, I claimed though that I

603
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: ate snake, and I upon reflect and I'm like, I'm

604
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: I think that might have actually been chicken. But I

605
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: would try snake. I just don't I love snakes, so

606
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: I don't really want to have one killed for me.

607
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: Very reasonable, And I don't really want to eat road

608
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 1: killed either. I'm not that level of like scavenger quite yet.

609
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 2: No, I think I'd rather be a vegetarian. I yeah, yeah,

610
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: I don't need I don't feel the need for meat

611
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: in my diet, which is not to say I'm a vegetarian,

612
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: but I would say, like, yeah, I'm a carb person,

613
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: please give me all the carb.

614
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: I'm a bredetarian as well. Yeah. Well, we're going to

615
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but when we get back, we're

616
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: going to talk about one of the world's least picky

617
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: animals whose appetite is just completely buck wild. And you

618
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: may be surprised or maybe not surprised what animals says,

619
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: So we will return shortly. So, Catherine, do you like

620
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: a heron?

621
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do like them. I like birds. I think

622
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 2: they can be pretty. I think they're cool looking at

623
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: these pictures, though it looks like there's different kinds, many

624
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: different kinds of herons. I'm certain are indeed familiar with

625
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: all of them there are indeed.

626
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting because herons are a family of many,

627
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: many different species of aquatic birds. So there's over seventy

628
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: species of birds in the heron family, which includes birds

629
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: from herons to egrets to bitterns. These are all birds

630
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: that are considered to be in the heron family, and

631
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: it also includes kind of some of the classic birds

632
00:37:54,719 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: like gray herons, blue herons. These are the white herons.

633
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: These are all in the same family of heron.

634
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: I see. Do you remember from when you lived in

635
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: La what the birds at the Silver Lake Reservoir were?

636
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: Were those egrets?

637
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: There are both egrets and herons there. I think there

638
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: are a species of white egret.

639
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: Okay, in the spring when they have their babies in there,

640
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: all sitting up in the trees just screaming their heads off.

641
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: It is the craziest noise and I really enjoy it.

642
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: Okay, So great blue herons are found in Silver Lake,

643
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: so those are the ones that are gonna be the

644
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: big guys.

645
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm mm hmm. Okay, I think it's the great

646
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: blue herons that make a ton of noise. I'm just

647
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: looking at the Silver Lake Wildlife Instagram page.

648
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: I see yes, so that that would be it.

649
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are.

650
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: We're actually going to talk about the great blue heron

651
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: because they are absolute monsters. I love them though. So

652
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: larger species of herons, such as gray herons and great

653
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: blue herons and goliath herons will eat so many different

654
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: things from fish to other species.

655
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it.

656
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: So the heron family ranges greatly. So the smallest member

657
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: of the heron family is this bird called the least bittern.

658
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: It is a cute little North American bird, just about

659
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: a foot long and three ounces. Little guy bitterns are

660
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: really interesting because when you look at them, you're like,

661
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: this is not a heron. Where's the neck. There's no

662
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: neck because they actually typically tuck their neck in and

663
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: they're like holy, like it's when you like try to

664
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: turtle your head down. That's what they're doing. And so

665
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: normally you look at them and like they have zero neck.

666
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: There's no neck there. But they can stretch out their

667
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: heads when they're hunting or flying and it's like they're

668
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: they've got this expandable it's not really expandable neck, it's

669
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: just there. It's just kind of tucked in, but it's

670
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: actually quite a long neck. It's like, have you ever

671
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: had like those grabby things where it's like it's this

672
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: not telescoping, but kind of like thing that folds in

673
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: and then you kind of squeeze some clamps and then

674
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: this grabby hand comes out. It's like that, but a bird. Yeah,

675
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: so they're hiding a lot of neck under there. They

676
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: are hiding a lot of neck under their feathers. So look,

677
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: if you looked under the feathers, you'd see this neck

678
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 1: kind of form a.

679
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: U shaped loop.

680
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, they can stretch that neck out and grab fish. So, yes,

681
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: they are little guys, but no less a heron. The

682
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: largest heron is the goliath heron. It is found in

683
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: Sub Saharan Africa and South Asia. The South Asian population

684
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: is in decline, but they're found in lake regions. It's

685
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: a very striking bird. It's hand and gray with black

686
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: and white markings on its beak and neck. To me,

687
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 1: it looks very dinosaur like. I love this one.

688
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

689
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: Grows up to five feet tall including its neck, so

690
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 1: that's over one and a half meters, and it can

691
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: weigh around eleven pounds or five kilograms, So it's tall,

692
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: but not a ton of meat.

693
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: No, what a skinny mini.

694
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: But look at that, like, look at the beak and

695
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: its head. It looks, you know, like a it looks

696
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: like a really long noodle e velociraptor. It absolutely does,

697
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: but like a distinguished one, A distinguished one. I like this,

698
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: This is a pretty bird. It's not like scary looking

699
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: to me. Uh, it's it's like a swankier dinosaur.

700
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, you know, I so whatever. I obviously have

701
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 2: no reason to be afraid of snakes, but I also

702
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 2: don't understand it when people are afraid of birds.

703
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: I know these people who are afraid of birds.

704
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: It's a thing.

705
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: I think that part of it might be birds can

706
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: be intimidating when they come in big flocks. So if

707
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: there's like a big flock of birds, that can be

708
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: kind of scary. Or if you live in a city

709
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: with a lot of pigeons and they kind of fly

710
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: towards your face, that can be startling. And I think

711
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: that people have this concept about pigeons and birds as

712
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: being maybe kind of dirty, and then they get intimidated,

713
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: especially if there's a city dwelling bird that like flies

714
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: near them, and then they get scared. So I can

715
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: understand it on a certain level, but I do not

716
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: have that fear. I absolutely love birds.

717
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: I forgot about pigeons, and there was a story in

718
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: my family for two generations that pigeons killed my great

719
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 2: grandpa with their disease. What. Yeah, so it was like

720
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: I was raised to fear and hate pigeons. I can't

721
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 2: believe I forgot all about this, It's just it. When

722
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 2: I was in my mid twenties or so, I realized

723
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: that story made absolutely no sense. Yeah, I think because

724
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 2: like what he died of wasn't completely clear, or at

725
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 2: least it wasn't to my mom, but she was a

726
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 2: kid when he died. But yeah, the story was just

727
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: like a pigeon pooped on him, or pigeons flew in

728
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: his face and the feathers touched his face and it

729
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: killed them or something like that.

730
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: Huh, it's interesting you bring that up. We may talk

731
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: about that a little bit later. So herons, hold that

732
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: thought about pigeons, okay, and then we are going to

733
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: talk about how you should be more afraid of herons

734
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: and pigeons. Actually, you shouldn't be afraid of either of

735
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: them unless you are small enough to fit in a

736
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: pigeon or fit in a hair and mouth. So herons

737
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: can either directly catch prey in their beak or spirit,

738
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 1: so typically it's fish on the menu, but they are opportunistic.

739
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: If they make the calculation that it can be eaten

740
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: in swallowed hole, they will certainly try, especially species like

741
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: the great blue heron that you find in Silver Lake

742
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: and the gray heron. So the gray heron is found

743
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: throughout Europe, Asia and Africa and wetlands. It's about a

744
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: meter tall or a little over three feet, and it

745
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: weighs around two kilograms around four pounds, so you know

746
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: they're not huge, but for a bird, they're pretty big.

747
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: They will eat fish, amphibians, crustaceans, small birds, ducklings, ducks,

748
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: small mammals, rabbits and more. They smash their prey against rocks,

749
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: snap their necks, or drown them before swallowing them whole.

750
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: And they are considered an apex predator in their environments.

751
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 2: So which is worse smashing something against a rock until

752
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: its neck breaks or eating it while it's still alive.

753
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: I mean eating it while it's still alive, like if

754
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: you get your neck snapped. I feel like that's a

755
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: much easier way to go than you know.

756
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just maw yeah, yeah, no, that's true. It's

757
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: the smashing it against the rocks imagery that like threw

758
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 2: me for a loop. I guess.

759
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's shockingly violent.

760
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: They must have gotten house pets at some point. This

761
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: has to have happened. It's yeah, probably.

762
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's I don't think I've seen anything documented,

763
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: most likely because I simply don't want to google has

764
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: a hair and eating a kitten. I'm not googling that ever.

765
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: Fair, fair, I don't think I will either.

766
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: No. So another hair, and one that's actually found in

767
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: North and Central America is the great blue heron. That's

768
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 1: your that's your local hair in Catherine. It's about four

769
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 1: and a half feet high, which is over a meter,

770
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: and weighs around five pounds that that's a little over

771
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: two kilograms. They are sort of a grayish blue. They

772
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: will eat fish, crustaceans, frogs, toads, snakes, lizards, shrews, rats, moles, voles,

773
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: ground squirrels, regular squirrels, muskrats, weasels, rabbits, smaller aquatic birds

774
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: including ducks, chicks of various species, pied billed grebs, dippers, rails, turns,

775
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: and young alligators.

776
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: What a diverse diet. This is so healthy.

777
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: Yes, this bird is the nutrition expert that we need.

778
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: Just eat everything.

779
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, and it actually goes It's really on

780
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: point for where nutrition is right now because that's so

781
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: much protein and none of us so much protein. But

782
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: this bird is.

783
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: The heron diet. Eat everything you can fit in your mouth,

784
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: just including young alligators.

785
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 2: Do they ever eat vegetables.

786
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: Not that I am aware of, unless you consider fish

787
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: to be a vegetable, which they're not. No.

788
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: Do some people consider fish to be vegetables?

789
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:08,439
Speaker 1: Maybe so, Yes, it's as pretty and elegant as these

790
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: birds are. There absolute monsters. If you shrunk one of

791
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: us down to the size of like at least a rabbit,

792
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: it would eat you, no problem.

793
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, that's well, you know what, I'm okay with that.

794
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: I'm not the size of the rabbit, so I guess

795
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 2: I don't have to be afraid. And I really do.

796
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: I mean to your point about them being monsters, they do.

797
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: They make the craziest noises. The babies are so weird looking.

798
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 2: I love them. I love It's just like just a

799
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 2: lot of weirdness in one animal. We have to we

800
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: have to play a hair and call then aaron. And

801
00:47:49,200 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: that sounds like some screaming. Yeah.

802
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that being annoying if there's like five

803
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: of them altogether doing this, yeah, But.

804
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: As long as you're just walking by, I find it delightful.

805
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of animal sounds, would you like to play

806
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: a little game with me? Yes, this is the Mystery

807
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: Animal Sound game, guests who's squawking? Every week I pick

808
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: a mystery animal sound, and you the listener, and you,

809
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: the guest, try to guess who is making that sound.

810
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: So last week's mystery animal sound hint was this. This

811
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: is a very common bird, but you might not recognize

812
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: this sound unless you're close friends with one.

813
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: Did you hear that? M hmm?

814
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 1: Any guesses.

815
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: I know we were just talking about pigeons, but I

816
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: feel like it's some sort of small bird like a

817
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 2: pigeon or a dove, which I don't know if those

818
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: are the exact same animals with different coloring or something

819
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 2: that is interact.

820
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: We have been primed for pigeons, we did it, so

821
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 1: this is indeed a pigeon. This is a pet pigeon,

822
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: happily cooling as it's being pet. So domesticated pigeons are

823
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: actually relatively common pets, and the pigeons you see in

824
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: the city are typically feral pigeons that we domesticated from

825
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: rock doves, so rock doves look fairly similar. But yeah,

826
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: a lot of these city pigeons are actually a feral

827
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: population that over many generations have been around because we

828
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: actually domesticated pigeons both as pets, as messengers, and as food.

829
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, most of the pigeons that you interact with

830
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: today are probably feral domestic sticated pigeons, And by feral

831
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they're vicious or anything. It just means

832
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: that they are a population that was domesticated and now

833
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: they're out and about. It's hard to call them exactly

834
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: wild because they're living in the city, but they have

835
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: no masters. So we were talking about this idea that

836
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: pigeons are actually disease ridden or dirty, and they're actually

837
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 1: not nearly as dirty or disease ridden as they are

838
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 1: often feared to be. It is true that there are

839
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: a few diseases you can get from pigeons, but usually

840
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: you would only get them if you're cleaning a large

841
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: amount of dried droppings, so not from the pigeon itself,

842
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: not even if you're pooped on necessarily, But if you're

843
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: like cleaning a large quantity of dried pigeon poop and

844
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: like a poorly ventilated area, and even if you do

845
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,760
Speaker 1: get ill, it's usually only going to pose a threat

846
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: to you if you are immunocompromised. So according to the

847
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: New York City Health Department, like cleaning small amounts of

848
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: pigeon droppings is probably not going to hurt you, especially

849
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: if it's in a well ventilated area. But if you're

850
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: cleaning like a lot of them, like maybe from a

851
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: vent or something. If you use water to clean it,

852
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: like wet cloth a hose, that really helps because it

853
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: doesn't kick up as much dust as if you're just

854
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: sort of using dry implements to clean it. You can

855
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: also wear gloves and face mask and keep the area

856
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: of well ventilated, and that is going to really help

857
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: in terms of preventing you from catching anything from it.

858
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 1: But just kind of being around pigeons in the city

859
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: and having one fly near you or even poop on you,

860
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to catch anything. Like I wouldn't

861
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: kiss a feral pigeon on the face or like try

862
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: to subject myself to their poop because that's gross, But

863
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: they really aren't. You know, if you have a pigeon

864
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: like fly by you or bonk into you, you're you're

865
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 1: gonna be okay.

866
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta figure that people maybe call them dirty

867
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: because they're so associated with high density urban areas. Yes,

868
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people are afraid of anyway.

869
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: Also, yeah, when they are in sort of like urban

870
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: areas and they there's a lot of problems with their

871
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: feet often, so like they will get a lot of it.

872
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: It's because like if it gets too cold, like they'll

873
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: get frostbite and on their toes, and then they might

874
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: loose some toes or get like sort of gnarled, sort

875
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: of wardy growths on their feet which kind of make

876
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: them look gnarly, or like they get like threads or

877
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: hairs or something like tied around their feet. It can

878
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: cause them problems and stuff, and so they they might

879
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 1: kind of look scruffy or dirty, but it's just because

880
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: they're like picking up dirt from the streets that we've generated.

881
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: So it's like right, right, not really their fault, but

882
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: they are actually still kept as pets today, and like

883
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 1: dogs or cats, they're actually bred for like different colors,

884
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: for different feather patterns. In fact, you may have seen

885
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: pigeons in your city that like are interesting sort of

886
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: splotchy colors or brown or like different color patterns. That's

887
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: all from human selective breeding. And then those pigeons when

888
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: they become feral or escape or breed with the local

889
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: population of other feral pigeons, those genes get woven into

890
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: the mix, and then you have these birds for generations

891
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,959
Speaker 1: that will have these interesting color patterns. But yeah, there's

892
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: definitely like if you like the idea of having a

893
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: pigeon as a pet, but you like have this negative

894
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 1: association with like street pigeons. A lot of the pet

895
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: pigeons don't look very similar to street pigeons because they

896
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 1: are like different color patterns. And of course also because

897
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: they're pets, they're kept very clean, so they do not

898
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: look dirty at all, because you know, they get to

899
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 1: live in luxury and not have to walk over the

900
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: well trod streets of the city.

901
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: How do you feel about keeping birds as pets.

902
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: I feel like it's something that should be undertaken with

903
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: an understanding of what you're getting into. So I think

904
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: pigeons are actually much better pets than a lot of

905
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: birds because they are very affectionate. I think it's better

906
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: to get more than one pigeon, but they can bond

907
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: with humans really well. They're much less expensive and easier

908
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 1: to maintain than say a parrot, And while they do

909
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: have a lot of social needs like they are not

910
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: it's not nearly to the extent of say a parrot.

911
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: I think a parrot certain species of parrots, and because

912
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 1: they can have like cognition that's like similar to like

913
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: a toddler, And it is a huge responsibility to.

914
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: Take care of a parrot.

915
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: They live really long time, they have so many social needs,

916
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: and sometimes they get psychological problems from being isolated from

917
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: other parrots. So I would say, you know, when you're

918
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: looking at pet birds, like pigeons are actually really good

919
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: type of pet bird. I don't think it's cruel to

920
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: keep a pigeon as a pet because they've been domesticated.

921
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: I think it's similar to keeping like a dog or

922
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: cat as a pet, as long as you've done your

923
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: research and you know what you're getting into. Because pigeons

924
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: can live to be anywhere from fifteen to twenty years.

925
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: So you are signing on too a long time with

926
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: this pigeon, and.

927
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: They are so.

928
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: What you shouldn't do is get a pigeon, stick them

929
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: in a cage and you know, just feed them once

930
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: in a while. That's obviously not good. But if you

931
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: interact with them a lot, especially if you have like

932
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: more than one pigeon, they you can actually, I think,

933
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: give a domesticated pigeon a nice life if you have

934
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: enough space, if you have enough resources. It's you know,

935
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: it's like a dog, like you know, you can have

936
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: a dog with a very happy life or not so

937
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: happy life. Like you wouldn't keep a dog just in

938
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: a crate all the time. But if your dog is

939
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: out and about and you're taking care of it and

940
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: giving it a lot of socialization, they can be quite happy.

941
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: Well, there's if anyone wants to have their heart melt.

942
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 2: There's a big feature in People magazine about a pigeon

943
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 2: and a chihuahua puppy who live in a foundation for

944
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 2: special needs Animals Friends, and the pigeon sits on the

945
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: chihuahua because it thinks it's it's mom. There's lots of.

946
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've actually read that pigeons get along with cats

947
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: and dogs pretty well, especially compared compared to other birds,

948
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: and you can, you know, definitely your cat and your dog.

949
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 1: I would say, if you have a pet with which

950
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: has a really high prey drive, I would not have

951
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: that combination. But if you have a dog that does

952
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: not have a high prey drive or it's small, like

953
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: at Chihuahua, you know, like they can actually get along

954
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: fairly well.

955
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 2: Cute, very cute.

956
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: I like definitely look up photos of pet pigeons. They're adorable,

957
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: and I think it also will give you a new

958
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: appreciation for just your city pigeons because they are the

959
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: same species. It's just like maybe they're a little cleaner looking,

960
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: they're a little tidier, little different colors. It's like looking

961
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: at sort of a street dog versus like a Pomeranian.

962
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: But it's you.

963
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: Know, they are at their core the same animal. It's

964
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: interesting because here I live in northern Italy and we

965
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of pigeons here, and we have all

966
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: sorts of like different interesting color morphs of these pigeons.

967
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: Like there's white ones, there's brown, there's like all kinds

968
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: of speckled patterns.

969
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 2: Uh.

970
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: But because we have a lot we don't have so

971
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: much car traffic, and we have a ton of like

972
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: sort of open public spaces where there's not like uh,

973
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like grass and trees and just uh,

974
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: these birds aren't really harried so much. You'll just see

975
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: all these pigeons just kind of like sitting around. I've

976
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: never seen such calm, chilled out pigeons as I.

977
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 2: Have in the city.

978
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: And I I mean, I think they're really cute. Like

979
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: when the quality of life goes up for the pigeon,

980
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: I think like they're uh, their cuteness level also goes

981
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: up because they're you know, they look healthy, they look content,

982
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: and you'll just look over and there's like a little

983
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: pigeon sitting on the ground and it does it's like

984
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: it's not scared of you. It's just looking at you, like, Hey,

985
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: what's up. All cute?

986
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 2: Very cute. Yes.

987
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: So you know, if you're if you like love the

988
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: idea of having a bird, and you're you don't mind

989
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: clean up bird poop and you have the space, but

990
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: you don't really want to commit to like getting a parrot,

991
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: a pigeon is actually I think a pretty good alternative.

992
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: It's a you know, as long as as long as

993
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: you know what you're getting into, because it's not like, uh,

994
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: it's not no pet is like easy. Every pet has

995
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: its challenges. But you know, I don't think pet ownership

996
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: is inherently wrong when we've domesticated animals that like depend

997
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: on us and that we can we can make happy.

998
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree, And it's.

999
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: Certainly with the pigeons. I think when you compare like

1000
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: pigeons to like escape outdoors versus cats that escape outdoors, uh,

1001
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: usually will have a less bad impact on the environment.

1002
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: So they are definitely benefits.

1003
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah pigeons.

1004
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So onto this week's mystery animal. Sound.

1005
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: The hint is this This raptor is all of out

1006
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: no shave November. Did you hear that kind of sounds

1007
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: like a squeaky toy that's lost a bit of its

1008
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: sweet Yeah, got any giesses?

1009
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 2: I I don't know this kind of bird at all.

1010
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,439
Speaker 2: It's I mean, okay, I think it's a verd.

1011
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean that that narrows it down, to be honest,

1012
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: things like the best game it can be any animal

1013
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: in the world. So narrowing it down to bird is

1014
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: a pretty big step.

1015
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's all I got. Yeah, it's some sort.

1016
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: Of bird, some sort of raptor bird. Well, we will

1017
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: find out on the next episode of Creature Feature. If

1018
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: you think you know, you can write to me at

1019
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: Creature featurepot at gmail dot com. Or if you have questions,

1020
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: or if you have a pet pigeon and you want

1021
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: to tell me how cute they are already pet right

1022
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: to me, Love the pet pictures, Catherine, Thank you so

1023
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: much for joining me today. Where can people find you?

1024
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: Oh, let's see. So my podcast is called Smartmouth and

1025
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: there's a companying Substack Smartmouth about substack dot com that's

1026
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: for food history of the world. And if there's any

1027
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 2: Angelina's listening, which I'm sure there are. I also just

1028
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 2: started how to Eatla dot com, which is local restaurant reviews.

1029
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: That sounds great.

1030
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 2: La.

1031
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: Like I've lived a few places over the years, in

1032
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 1: La is the best place I've ever lived in terms

1033
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: of food. It is like just no competition even I

1034
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: mean I haven't to be fair, I have not lived.

1035
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 2: In New York.

1036
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: I have visited New York, so it's hard. It's not

1037
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: maybe a fair comparison, but in terms of the places

1038
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: that I have lived, LA. It is the most diverse,

1039
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: most high quality food scene I've.

1040
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: Ever experience that is objectively correct.

1041
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: Well, I might check that out for next time I

1042
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: visit LA. But yes, definitely check that out if you

1043
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: are a gormond or just interested in the topic of food,

1044
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: because I think it's fascinating. And thank you guys so

1045
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: much for listening. If you're enjoying the show and you

1046
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: leave a rating or review, I greatly appreciate it. I

1047
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: read every review, and of course every rating really.

1048
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 2: Helps out the show.

1049
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: Thank you to the Space Classics for their super awesome

1050
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: song XO. Lumina. Creature Feature is a production of iHeartRadio.

1051
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit

1052
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

1053
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: Or Hey guess what where? Have you listen to your

1054
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 2: favorite shows?

1055
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: I'm not Jamada and I don't judge you. See you

1056
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: next Wednesday.