Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nuckleman.
Speaker 2: This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called
Speaker 2: The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,
Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,
Speaker 2: presented by f HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting
Speaker 2: and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as
Speaker 2: the place as we explore. Welcome to the Bear Grease Render.
Speaker 2: This is a much awaited Bear Grease Render. I have
Speaker 2: been working on the David Crockett series literally since we
Speaker 2: got done with Boone, and I'll have you know that
Speaker 2: I was discouraged from working on a Crockett series. Do
Speaker 2: you have any guesses who discouraged me from working on Crockett?
Speaker 2: Steve Steve Ranella. Steve Ranella discourge. He was like, Crockett,
Speaker 2: come on Crockett, and so that didn't discourage me though
Speaker 2: I continued to work on it.
Speaker 1: But I have been waiting for.
Speaker 2: I want to start off with this right here, this
Speaker 2: book David Crockett, Lying of the West by Michael Wallace.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, from the books that I've read, which
Speaker 2: I've not read all the Crockett biographies, there are just
Speaker 2: almost uncountable biographies on Crockett for going way back to
Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds. But this one is a really good one.
Speaker 2: It's really in depth, but it also is in the
Speaker 2: common man's vernacular from a guy who really was passionate
Speaker 2: about Crockett and is just a reputable historian.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: Basically Michael Wallace. I was waiting on Michael Wallace to
Speaker 2: be one of the guests on the podcast, and and
Speaker 2: we've corresponded a lot, and it was not his fault
Speaker 2: that he couldn't. He wanted to, but he was unable
Speaker 2: to be on the podcast, but he kept thinking that
Speaker 2: he might, and so literally for a year, I delayed,
Speaker 2: and I have emailed him at least once every three
Speaker 2: months for a year and a half and he's been very,
Speaker 2: very nice, but has not been able to do it.
Speaker 2: And so finally I just had to pull the trigger.
Speaker 2: And I'd already gone to New York to interview Robert Morgan,
Speaker 2: who's just an expert on anybody. Like any American historical figure,
Speaker 2: you go talk to Robert Morgan, He's the man. Robert
Speaker 2: Morgan also wrote a pretty robust chapter, probably like a
Speaker 2: forty or fifty page chapter.
Speaker 1: On Crockett in his book.
Speaker 3: His book.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's called Lions.
Speaker 3: Of the West.
Speaker 2: Is that one called this one's called David Crockett the Lion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so his book Lions of the West. I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: to fact check it. Well, somebody looked that up. It
Speaker 2: it it goes through all these different historical characters, and uh,
Speaker 2: it goes through Boone and Crockett and Kit Carson and
Speaker 2: all these guys and so. But Robert Morgan was incredible.
Speaker 2: And then our Scott Williams I just found out about
Speaker 2: him just recently went over to Tennessee interviewed him.
Speaker 1: So long waited, long waited.
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm pleased to have a very strong group
Speaker 2: of people here today. We're gonna we're gonna switch it
Speaker 2: up to my right, Michael Roseman sun Spotlights. You've been
Speaker 2: on here twice, an'ge Michael twice before? Yes, twice before, Michael.
Speaker 2: Michael owns sunspot Lights, the coon Lights. They always see
Speaker 2: me and Brent wearing heerd buy in the media store.
Speaker 1: I hear you're a Crockett expert.
Speaker 4: Like I told you, Brent thinks I'm a Crockett expert
Speaker 4: because I know more than he does. But that doesn't
Speaker 4: take much.
Speaker 2: You know, I had suspicions that you would be a
Speaker 2: Crockett guy.
Speaker 4: Why.
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, it's the way you look in
Speaker 2: that coonskin hat. Oh yeah, we haven't told everyone. We're
Speaker 2: all wearing legitimate Ozark Mountain Dog Tree coonskin hats.
Speaker 4: So everyone of the one size fits all.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a little disagreement on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yours. Yours is on your.
Speaker 4: Head though barely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you really look like a Crockett expert with
Speaker 1: that hat on.
Speaker 4: I bet no.
Speaker 1: So were you what year were you born?
Speaker 4: Seventy six?
Speaker 2: Seventy six, Okay, so you're not You're you're just a
Speaker 2: few years older than me. Did you watch Crockett growing up,
Speaker 2: like the like the Disney shows.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've seen some, the most of it those from
Speaker 4: reading in the last ten years.
Speaker 2: Oh really, Okay, So it wasn't like you had the
Speaker 2: lunch boxes, guitars and the knives.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I got on eBay and uh, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: really nice David Davy Crockett pocket knives, like legitimate vintage
Speaker 2: pocket knives you could buy for like five bucks that
Speaker 2: really are from that time.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can tell they're just kind of junk.
Speaker 1: But I almost taught a couple.
Speaker 5: But and I probably will restart the market for that
Speaker 5: with this podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have I have legitimate plans to revitalize the
Speaker 2: American raccoon fur trade.
Speaker 5: Now, I was gonna say it, be honest. Is this
Speaker 5: just an attempt to get the raccoon numbers down a
Speaker 5: little bit? This whole podcast just to get people to
Speaker 5: wear coonskin?
Speaker 1: To wear the coonskin caps?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 3: Did you say who made these.
Speaker 2: Early josher Josh Lambridge Spilmmaker made these hats for us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I've introduced Michael Roseman to his right, my good
Speaker 2: friend Jay Webb Jonathan Webster. Yeah so Jonathan.
Speaker 1: Did did Ben? Did you recognize Jonathan's voice? Of course
Speaker 1: you did? Yeah, mao myself. I didn't want to.
Speaker 3: With me. You may be on the next man.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to embarrass the people by telling their names. No,
Speaker 2: Jonathan Webster was the second.
Speaker 5: I was the third person ambushed by Clay Nucomb with
Speaker 5: a recorder asking if I knew anything about Davy Crockett,
Speaker 5: And every thought in my head, which was not many,
Speaker 5: left me in that very moment. But I literally could
Speaker 5: not have told you a single thing. It was amazing
Speaker 5: how much I was just like, I don't know anything
Speaker 5: about David Crockett, So it was perfect. Yeah, I was
Speaker 5: your target audience.
Speaker 2: But now you did tell me afterwards that you confused him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you thought, who'd you think he was? Daniel Boone?
Speaker 1: That's what I totally You know. Who I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: used is Michael Roseman.
Speaker 4: Crockett was a martyr, he was a bear hunter.
Speaker 1: He was at the audition, he was at there Alimo.
Speaker 2: He formed American identity on manhood and self made man.
Speaker 2: I would have been like, get out of here.
Speaker 3: I totally confused him, and I was.
Speaker 5: And when I even said like he's a man's man,
Speaker 5: I was thinking of that song for about Daniel Boone
Speaker 5: being a big man.
Speaker 1: Confusing him.
Speaker 5: At that time, I was confusing him all over.
Speaker 1: Well, but your your thing.
Speaker 2: I played right into what I was trying to say,
Speaker 2: and you saying that he was a man's man. I
Speaker 2: brought the question did David Crockett inform Americans about manhood?
Speaker 1: And he absolutely did?
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: In Wallace's book, he talked about how he used his
Speaker 2: bear hunting identity to bolster this hyper masculine identity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, I love it. Let's go. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: so now the French? Were you actually speaking French?
Speaker 3: I mean a little bit.
Speaker 5: I took French in high school, right up to the
Speaker 5: point where I was about to be able to speak it,
Speaker 5: and then I dropped.
Speaker 1: So what did you say?
Speaker 5: I said, I'm sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I could say cheese omelet in French? Go ahead, go ahead,
Speaker 3: omelet do from mom.
Speaker 5: I'm guessing that's a little Dexter's laboratory from back in
Speaker 5: the day.
Speaker 3: Man, I don't know what that is, all right.
Speaker 1: Why do you know that?
Speaker 3: Because I heard Steve Martin say it on a comedy.
Speaker 1: Say that again, Brenton? What it is?
Speaker 3: Omelet do fromage?
Speaker 1: What does that mean?
Speaker 3: Cheese omelet, cheese omelin.
Speaker 5: We've gone international now we're sophisticated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that was perfect to h to your right,
Speaker 2: Ben Lagron.
Speaker 1: Ben.
Speaker 2: Ben's been stepping in here recently quite a bit old
Speaker 2: history teacher. Balance families on Instagram, Balance birth couple. I'm
Speaker 2: balanced birth couple on Instagram.
Speaker 6: Yes, speaking of which, the first time I was on here,
Speaker 6: The first time I was on here, there was a
Speaker 6: bear grease fan that had listened to us just to
Speaker 6: share the handle. And he was like this young guy
Speaker 6: probably you know, early twenties and passionate hunter, not married,
Speaker 6: no kids, and he was so excited that I was
Speaker 6: on bear grease. He started promoting, you know, if anybody
Speaker 6: out there's pregnant, check this guy.
Speaker 2: That's funny, he was. He was getting pumped. That's good,
Speaker 2: that's good. Did you ever teach Crockett Ben.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially with the Alamo?
Speaker 6: Oh really, yeah, that's always kind of mentioned just in
Speaker 6: American history.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in American history.
Speaker 6: And you know when you came up to me like
Speaker 6: you did, jawb Ask, I fumbled around it.
Speaker 3: I get that all the time as a history teacher.
Speaker 6: People think, because you're a history teacher, you know everything
Speaker 6: about every historical topic. I do know a substantial amount,
Speaker 6: but you can't be an expert on every topic ever,
Speaker 6: and so you always get stumped with stuff like that,
Speaker 6: and especially older people will they'll stuff studies something really
Speaker 6: in depth. Did you read such and such and such,
Speaker 6: and you just kind of nod your head, and you know,
Speaker 6: they think you're an expert because you're a history teacher.
Speaker 3: In your head and your hat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I find that a lot of these
Speaker 2: guys that I want to interview, maybe that have even
Speaker 2: written a book, will well. For instance, the Dacompsas series,
Speaker 2: the Peter Cosens, who's an incredible author, a very legitimate
Speaker 2: historical author. When I first approached him about being on
Speaker 2: the Tacomps series, he kind of was like, wow, man,
Speaker 2: it's been it's been a couple of years since I
Speaker 2: wrote that book. I wrote it in twenty seventeen. And
Speaker 2: uh and and you know you read this book, this book,
Speaker 2: and you're just thinking, man, this guy lives and breathes
Speaker 2: this He could he could recite this book in his sleep,
Speaker 2: and and he was wanting to do to come to justice.
Speaker 2: He was like, man, I want to I want to
Speaker 2: do him justice. And so he actually went back and
Speaker 2: reread the book and then came on the podcast. And
Speaker 2: I find, uh, I find that he re read the
Speaker 2: book he wrote, yeah, and so yeah, I find I
Speaker 2: find that just the human brain is able to pick
Speaker 2: up and remember some things in incredible detail, but typically
Speaker 2: big ideas about people.
Speaker 1: And that's why you were able to say, well, you're
Speaker 1: guessing on the wrong guy. A man's man.
Speaker 2: But most people like like the Spillmakers did pretty good.
Speaker 2: So I interviewed Josh and Christie Spillmaker, who Josh is
Speaker 2: on here a lot, and they hit they hit King
Speaker 2: of the Wild Frontier, the Alamo Coonskin hat, Walt Disney song.
Speaker 4: And that's basically his whole life.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, And that's that's a pretty good that's a
Speaker 2: pretty good, pretty good, robustal tidbit of information there. But
Speaker 2: when you start talking about the more specifics of how
Speaker 2: he actually influenced American culture and identity, then that's where
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been able to answer that really, you know,
Speaker 2: until I had studied it. But that's when it really
Speaker 2: gets interesting, because what people remember is the high points,
Speaker 2: but like underneath the surface, the undercurrent is all these
Speaker 2: things that are there. But and then our final guest,
Speaker 2: Brent Reeves, Brent, you look good in a coonskin.
Speaker 3: Hat, man, I look good at anything, Okay.
Speaker 2: So I asked Brent before he listened to the podcast,
Speaker 2: and he told me he was telling the truth and this,
Speaker 2: and I said, make me recording of what you know
Speaker 2: about David Crockett.
Speaker 3: That's what he said, Let's see what do I know
Speaker 3: about David Crockett. He was from Tennessee. He was a
Speaker 3: bear hunter. He was elected to Congress. He was good
Speaker 3: friends with Uncle Jed from Beverly Hill Billies. He looked
Speaker 3: exactly like Daniel Boone and he got at Alamo. Some
Speaker 3: say he rose death, some say others. And I don't
Speaker 3: think those folks are allowed in Texas. And that's about it.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good, pretty hit. You hit the high points there.
Speaker 3: Somebody argued with me that he didn't look just exactly
Speaker 3: like Daniel, but.
Speaker 4: He did as far as I knew as a kid.
Speaker 3: Parker. So I did ask my wife about if she
Speaker 3: knew anything about David. She's in Texas. Yeah, she said
Speaker 3: she remembered that he they taught that he wrote the
Speaker 3: Declaration of Independence and he was the first man to
Speaker 3: walk on the moon. Well I did, but I said,
Speaker 3: she said that he was very prominent in Texas history.
Speaker 3: Big deal.
Speaker 2: Well, see, I asked the guys from the Element who
Speaker 2: the Element guys, uh, Casey Smith and Tyler.
Speaker 1: Johns, And they didn't.
Speaker 2: They're big Texas guys, but East Texas guys, and they didn't.
Speaker 2: They were just like a I mean, they didn't have
Speaker 2: like any big cultural hanging point on Crockett.
Speaker 1: So but so was that funny?
Speaker 3: Well, I can just see that I can't see them
Speaker 3: studying near as hard in school as my wife did.
Speaker 3: I was like, now, those boys are smart. I ain't
Speaker 3: saying they're not, but I would say that their minds
Speaker 3: were a little more on hunting and fishing than it
Speaker 3: was what was going on with that true story.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is a good reason to bring up their
Speaker 2: buck Truck series on the Meteor channel. So so the
Speaker 2: Element they had their own YouTube channel for years and
Speaker 2: their own company. They now are inside of the meat
Speaker 2: eater world, and so they made.
Speaker 1: A series called the buck Truck, which is where they.
Speaker 2: Drove around the country hundred quite a bit of public land,
Speaker 2: some private land, and white tail hunted and I think
Speaker 2: six or seven different states last year.
Speaker 1: And so they put.
Speaker 2: Up their the They have been putting up their videos
Speaker 2: every every Tuesday, and we're four or five in probably
Speaker 2: by the.
Speaker 1: Time this comes out.
Speaker 2: But it's it's unique because it's a it's a way
Speaker 2: different style video than typically what the media audience would
Speaker 2: be used to.
Speaker 1: Their longer forms.
Speaker 2: Some of them are like forty five minutes long, and
Speaker 2: usually Metior stuff is a lot shorter than that.
Speaker 1: And yeah, they're a lot of fun. I really like that.
Speaker 3: They're genuine guys. And it's man, that is that's just
Speaker 3: how it happens if you've traveled anywhere and done any
Speaker 3: kind of hunting. I mean, you know, that's just exactly
Speaker 3: what's going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's a little bit more of the
Speaker 2: like rough cut YouTube style travel vlog feel as opposed
Speaker 2: I mean, it's well produced, but as opposed to, you know,
Speaker 2: some cinematic thing, even though it's good.
Speaker 1: So anyway, those guys, yeah, they're from Texas. They don't
Speaker 1: know a thing about crocking.
Speaker 2: But I did have some people. We're gonna get in.
Speaker 2: Trust me, We're gonna get into the stuff on the Alamo.
Speaker 2: Trust me, boys, it's gonna it's gonna get good. So, Michael,
Speaker 2: did you see my video I put on Instagram yesterday.
Speaker 1: Which one catching the coon?
Speaker 4: Oh no, he showed it. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it.
Speaker 1: I tagged him in it. That's good, that's good. I
Speaker 1: tag sun Spotlights.
Speaker 2: But when I I caught that coon by hand on
Speaker 2: the ground, Oh yeah, yeah at the farm?
Speaker 1: Yeah you did, I said it in the video.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been around coons my whole life, and
Speaker 2: I would have never I would have never thought you
Speaker 2: could catch one by hand.
Speaker 4: Off. Caught a bunch of them. We used to train
Speaker 4: puppies like that. I ride up and down the road.
Speaker 4: Seehim in the road, ditch, run them down, You give
Speaker 4: them a little boot. They'll turn around to fight you,
Speaker 4: and you can catch them by the tail and then
Speaker 4: you hold them out the window of the truck when
Speaker 4: you're going where you're going to where you're lose.
Speaker 1: That works, that'll do it. That works.
Speaker 2: No, I saw Michael catch one. I think we've talked
Speaker 2: about this on the render before, but I saw Michael
Speaker 2: jump out of the side by side run down a
Speaker 2: coon in a field. And yeah, there's a trick to it.
Speaker 2: You bump them with your foot while they're running. So
Speaker 2: I mean, you gotta be semi coordinated to make that happen.
Speaker 2: The coon turns, he'll stop when you do that, spin around,
Speaker 2: and then you grab him by the tail and they
Speaker 2: can't reach around and bite their rear.
Speaker 1: Ind Okay, yeah they can, they can.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You gotta kind of keep them in a spinning motion.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Spin them a little bit, keep them occupied.
Speaker 2: Kind of like you're holding a big snapping turtle kind
Speaker 2: of yeah, well, hey, anything else we should talk about
Speaker 2: before we start talking about. We've kind of just jumped
Speaker 2: right in the crocket, which is good.
Speaker 6: I have several things I can always talk about. I've
Speaker 6: actually had a question I've been dying to ask Brent
Speaker 6: for a very long time.
Speaker 3: Can I ask it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, just just phrase it up, just be like, yeah.
Speaker 6: Okay, well it's pretty arbitrary, so you can cut this out.
Speaker 6: I have been dying to know the functional benefit of
Speaker 6: overalls versus just other good, durable paint work pants. I've
Speaker 6: been one to ask Brent that ever since we've been
Speaker 6: on the podcast.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think it's more style, style, okay, as well
Speaker 3: as function. If you listen to this Country Life, I
Speaker 3: talk about all the stuff that I carry in my pockets,
Speaker 3: and I heard that.
Speaker 6: I heard that one and I thought, I don't know
Speaker 6: if I could quite carry all that stuff is effective,
Speaker 6: Like two pockets and my hiking cargo.
Speaker 3: All that stuff I would either have to carry, I'd
Speaker 3: either have to wear overalls or a backpack or purse,
Speaker 3: and overalls was socially more acceptable where I.
Speaker 1: Grew up, is that all you got that's as deep
Speaker 1: as the philosophy goes.
Speaker 3: I can make something up real quick.
Speaker 1: Well, let me talk. And you think you wear overalls
Speaker 1: too well, I think the answer primarily was that wrong.
Speaker 3: Was my answer wrong?
Speaker 2: It wasn't wrong, it just was it didn't have as
Speaker 2: much function and philosophy as I expected.
Speaker 3: It was missing a certain what do you think? I feel.
Speaker 4: The biggest reason is so he doesn't wind up like
Speaker 4: that guy that we've seen on the way up here
Speaker 4: who seriously needed a belt.
Speaker 2: That's the biggest What I was going to say was
Speaker 2: that a pair of overalls, it takes that the the
Speaker 2: pressure off your waist and it puts it on your shoulders.
Speaker 2: And so when you wear pants and when you wear
Speaker 2: a belt, you're constantly pulling your pants up, tightening your belt,
Speaker 2: and it just like there's this pressure around your waist.
Speaker 2: When you wear a pair of overalls, it's like you're
Speaker 2: wearing a robe. It's like it's like it's like now
Speaker 2: the energy, the energy, the weight is on your shoulders
Speaker 2: and it's like a shower curtain going all the way
Speaker 2: down to your boots. And so it's more comfortable and
Speaker 2: you can Brent typically wears one button undone on top. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he'll button, he'll butt. So there's two two buttons on
Speaker 2: both sides, right.
Speaker 1: At the hip.
Speaker 2: And and you can, you know, if you're if you're
Speaker 2: kind of feeling informal, you're around family and friends, you
Speaker 2: run them too down. You get a little more.
Speaker 3: Airflow too much. That's hard, that's hot a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, two downs a lot because but but if you're
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a little bit more formal gathering,
Speaker 2: Brent's gonna be running one button.
Speaker 1: If we went.
Speaker 2: To, say the steakhouse, he'd probably run two up.
Speaker 3: Doubtful. Doubtful, but possible. But I just they're comfortable and
Speaker 3: I've grown. I've been wearing them since I was a
Speaker 3: little kid. I got pictures of me and I was,
Speaker 3: you know, three years old wearing overalls and it wasn't
Speaker 3: just wasn't then oshkoshes or whatever youngins were. It was
Speaker 3: regular overalls. And I've been I wore them in high
Speaker 3: school all the way, I've been wearing them forever.
Speaker 2: It Also what I like about him is, uh, when
Speaker 2: you're working, And I don't wear them as casually as
Speaker 2: Brent does, but I wear them when I work and
Speaker 2: used to wear them a lot when I landscaped, it's
Speaker 2: just this frontal protection, this one piece, Like you know,
Speaker 2: when you're really working a lot, stuff gets down in
Speaker 2: your pants, you know, I mean just like wood chips
Speaker 2: or grass or whatever, you know, and overalls kind of
Speaker 2: keep that from happening.
Speaker 3: You're selling me, I might have to try.
Speaker 6: Y'all need a Brent Reeves line overall marketed as the
Speaker 6: shower roob of the outdoors.
Speaker 2: Brent needs a pair of overalls with a flip up
Speaker 2: coonskin hat the back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like a hoodie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. Any other questions for brand
Speaker 2: or anyone else?
Speaker 3: Pyramids, pyramids, pyramid schemes. How can I get in? And
Speaker 3: he's gonna have in this overall business?
Speaker 2: So I had a lot of a lot of interest
Speaker 2: in the mule trainer that Banjo's at.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of people right.
Speaker 2: And then, from multiple well from more than one state,
Speaker 2: trying to trying to get hooked up with my mule trainer.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 3: I told him, none your business.
Speaker 2: I gave him his number, but only after I was
Speaker 2: really convinced that guy was serious.
Speaker 3: Do you get a referral commission?
Speaker 2: I wish I wish maybe we'll see I guess now
Speaker 2: Banjo's got a couple more a couple more weeks at
Speaker 2: the trainer there.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I just took him over there. No, no,
Speaker 1: it's it's a pretty good trip over there.
Speaker 4: Banjo's the one you thought was going to kill you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, hence the need for the trainer. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But when I brought up Banjo, I had a
Speaker 1: guy say, what happened to Hoot? So Hoot was the dog?
Speaker 2: Was the young plot hound that I had that I
Speaker 2: was training that I hunted the fair bed last fall.
Speaker 2: Brent hunted him some, Michael hunted with her a little bit,
Speaker 2: and uh and somebody said, we heard about Banjo? What
Speaker 2: happened to Hoot? And I think this is a great
Speaker 2: time to tell the world that, like like Crockett brought
Speaker 2: in to helped usher into American identity, that you get
Speaker 2: what you get by merit.
Speaker 1: Who didn't make now who's alive? We didn't like take me?
Speaker 2: No, I felt like I gave I gave a Hoot
Speaker 2: a good chance. I left her with a guy that
Speaker 2: hunted a man used to I would have never done this,
Speaker 2: but I'm traveling and I had a guy hunter for
Speaker 2: me for about forty five days, and he hunted probably
Speaker 2: twelve or fifteen times up here in the mountains. I
Speaker 2: sent her down with Brent. How long did y'all have her?
Speaker 2: Michael and Brent.
Speaker 3: Month? About a month? Over a month?
Speaker 1: No, yeah, only hunted her like three times.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, you said, how long did we have her?
Speaker 3: We had it a little over a month.
Speaker 1: Okay, But y'all didn't hunt her that much?
Speaker 3: No, No, because of water and yeah, we were floodshed,
Speaker 3: so that was going on.
Speaker 2: And and and then I hunted her quite a bit,
Speaker 2: and she just she just never she didn't She didn't
Speaker 2: hunt hard enough for me. She was almost two years
Speaker 2: old and just wasn't making it happen. And so I
Speaker 2: considered buying a dog from Michael. But and it was
Speaker 2: a good one.
Speaker 1: Just you'll have Rocker, yeah night.
Speaker 4: No, it's not for sale, No, not unless you want him. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he's been hunting last night.
Speaker 1: So if it gets out that I was hunting a walker,
Speaker 1: my my career is over. Because you guess you got
Speaker 1: to do the plotthounds, right, I mean I don't have to.
Speaker 4: I'm going to give you a piece of advice, the
Speaker 4: same piece of advice that I gave Brent about dogs,
Speaker 4: I get a dog that I like every between six
Speaker 4: to eight years. This is so said six to eight.
Speaker 4: About every six to eight years, I find one to
Speaker 4: replace what I'm currently hunting. So in the meantime, we
Speaker 4: try a lot of puppies, a lot of young dogs,
Speaker 4: and we go through them and they get home somewhere
Speaker 4: else because they're just not going to make for what
Speaker 4: I want, just like what happened with you with who.
Speaker 4: But my piece of advice is go buy one is
Speaker 4: doing what it's doing. Because I told you seven to
Speaker 4: eight years, I asked Brent, I said, Brent, how old
Speaker 4: are you? How old are you? Brent? I said, man,
Speaker 4: you only got two or three dogs left, and a
Speaker 4: lot of aggravations he said, He said, I had never
Speaker 4: thought of it. He said, I wish you wouldn't even
Speaker 4: call me. But it's true, you don't have that many
Speaker 4: dogs left.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I got a few.
Speaker 4: More, Brent, one or two.
Speaker 1: True story.
Speaker 4: I mean that when you start counting in fives and tens,
Speaker 4: it goes by pretty quick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes sense to invest in. Yeah, it started.
Speaker 2: Okay now here here's what you got to talk me
Speaker 2: down from and I'm open to people from outside the
Speaker 2: coon hunting community chiming in Ben and Jonathan, which both
Speaker 2: of y'all have coon hunting with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've a coonhu with me, hadn't you been?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 6: And and technically I was a coon dog owner as
Speaker 6: a child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, black and tent.
Speaker 3: It didn't work out at the whole nother long story.
Speaker 2: So here's my problem is that I it's hard for
Speaker 2: me to to take a dog from somebody else that
Speaker 2: just bought. I mean, because it's almost and now I'll
Speaker 2: make a case against it, and then I'll probably go
Speaker 2: and maybe do it.
Speaker 1: But it's almost like.
Speaker 4: Do it feel like cheating?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you didn't. You didn't You didn't raise a dog,
Speaker 1: you didn't train it and.
Speaker 5: Find that right one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been through these stages where you're at YEP.
Speaker 4: I used to if I didn't raise it, I didn't
Speaker 4: want it. I went through a phase where if it
Speaker 4: wasn't out of my dogs that I owned, that I
Speaker 4: didn't carry anything about it. And I'm to the point
Speaker 4: now that if it'll do what I wanted to do,
Speaker 4: I don't have but four or five left, so I
Speaker 4: need to get what I can get.
Speaker 5: Yeah, how many in your experience, Michael, how many? What's
Speaker 5: like the percentage of like good coon dogs that you
Speaker 5: try out that actually work out? Is it like ten
Speaker 5: percent or less or fifty percent or less actually turn
Speaker 5: out to be good.
Speaker 2: He's not trying out just the average run of the
Speaker 2: mill dog. I mean, Michael is like a very very
Speaker 2: serious coon.
Speaker 4: Now, there's a difference in a dog that will running
Speaker 4: tree a coon and a coon dog. Okay, that's the first.
Speaker 4: So as far as dogs, it will tree coons maybe,
Speaker 4: I mean, just you can turn it loose hunted enough,
Speaker 4: it'll tree a coon. Maybe fifty percent, Okay, the kind
Speaker 4: that I'm looking for one percent?
Speaker 3: One percent. Yeah, here's the difference. Because what he ain't
Speaker 3: saying that I know to be a fact is he's
Speaker 3: got a dog right now and any dog that he's
Speaker 3: ever had that I've hunted with. And when that when
Speaker 3: he says, this dog is started and going good and
Speaker 3: you know, maybe not finished yet, but a dog that
Speaker 3: he can turn loose and it will leave there in
Speaker 3: a cloud of dust and trail and tree a coon
Speaker 3: in ten minutes. When we get when we get to
Speaker 3: the tree, look at the coon. He turns them loose
Speaker 3: to go tree another. He looks at me and says
Speaker 3: he should have done that in eight minutes.
Speaker 4: I am a little picky.
Speaker 3: He ain't. He's a lot pick Clay. Would you have
Speaker 3: that same level of pickiness because if he.
Speaker 1: Undred dogs, Yeah, I mean, Michael and I would be
Speaker 1: a different I mean, I'm just not as a serious
Speaker 1: I mean, Michael's business in his life has been dedicated
Speaker 1: to coon hunting. I am a recreational coon hunter.
Speaker 2: I love a good dog, and I appreciate a good
Speaker 2: dog when I'm with one, and I feel like I've
Speaker 2: owned one good dog and uh and I so I
Speaker 2: would be happy with less than what Michael would probably,
Speaker 2: but I have been trying so. My dog, Fern died
Speaker 2: in December.
Speaker 1: She was eight years old. Died a little prematurely.
Speaker 2: I think I probably had a couple more winners with her,
Speaker 2: and she died a little prematurely. And I've been trying
Speaker 2: to replace her with dogs from the line that she
Speaker 2: was out of for about five years and couldn't quite
Speaker 2: make it happen. Though Michael I may have made him.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a mistake. It wasn't a mistake, but I
Speaker 2: gave Straight Cdio out in New Mexico a dog that
Speaker 2: I had started on Coon that was doing good, and.
Speaker 1: I just kind of thought.
Speaker 2: We hunted was straight out there, and I just thought
Speaker 2: she would do good for him. And I was feeling generous,
Speaker 2: and I wanted to see how one of my dogs
Speaker 2: would do on lions out there in the west, and
Speaker 2: so I told straight if he'd drive Darkansas and get her,
Speaker 2: I'd give him to him. I think she was eleven
Speaker 2: months old. So he literally drove straight from New Mexico here,
Speaker 2: got the dog, turned around, drove straight back and is
Speaker 2: hunting Opie to this.
Speaker 3: Day and doing good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he says, she's a real lying dog. She probably
Speaker 2: would have been a dog that I had been happy
Speaker 2: with if i'd have kept her and hunted her and whatnot.
Speaker 2: But I've been through at least four or five dogs
Speaker 2: that didn't work out right.
Speaker 4: But even Rocker. You liked Rocker. He did good. The
Speaker 4: first night we cut him loose, he treated three just bam,
Speaker 4: bam bam. I looked at Clay and I said, now, look,
Speaker 4: he is not this good. That's what I told him.
Speaker 4: I said, I know, he looks like I'm telling you.
Speaker 4: He is not this good and and he showed more
Speaker 4: kind of he he messed up in the next few nights.
Speaker 4: But he is a really nice dog. But he's still
Speaker 4: not what I would hunt even at that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm I'm in the market for a dog.
Speaker 2: I just gotta have a dog by this winter, you know.
Speaker 2: And and I do have a coon dog. I got
Speaker 2: Jed right right back out there, and Jed on a
Speaker 2: good night would go trick coon for us. But he's
Speaker 2: he's not a coon dog. He was sure a coon
Speaker 2: dog when he was with Fern though.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of them are like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So all right, David Crockett, Jonathan what so
Speaker 2: you we know where you start and after what most
Speaker 2: stood out to you in this episode one? And man, hey,
Speaker 2: there are three more episodes gonna I'll go ahead and
Speaker 2: tell you we've never done a four part series on anybody.
Speaker 2: We've always done, We've done, We've been successful at running
Speaker 2: these three part series.
Speaker 1: This one's gonna be for Are you.
Speaker 5: Gonna pace it after what Robert Morgan said, the bear
Speaker 5: hunter the politician?
Speaker 3: Are you gonna pay after.
Speaker 5: That's cool?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, him as a bear hunter was was pretty impressive,
Speaker 5: Like I kind of get why people back east would
Speaker 5: have been impressed just hearing that segment that you read
Speaker 5: from his autobiography. I mean, not only did the man
Speaker 5: survive like three instances in like a weekend that would
Speaker 5: have been like life defining for me, but he did
Speaker 5: even though various clips that you said, he just had
Speaker 5: a way of talking that I don't I don't know.
Speaker 5: It's when you read these things that it's kind of
Speaker 5: easy to think that everybody back in that time would
Speaker 5: have talked that way, thought that way. But I think
Speaker 5: what you're keying in on and one of the reasons
Speaker 5: he was such an archetype was that maybe not everybody
Speaker 5: was talking that way and not every but he was
Speaker 5: describing themselves that way, acting that way. But man, his
Speaker 5: what you described of him as a bear hunter was
Speaker 5: was pretty impressive. Yeah, I do have go ahead, Well
Speaker 5: I have a question about his bear hunting. So do
Speaker 5: you you read that section and he said he killed
Speaker 5: one hundred and five bears in a year?
Speaker 4: Is that?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 4: What is you?
Speaker 5: What do you guys think about that from like a
Speaker 5: conservation standpoint? Now, obviously it's totally different two hundred years ago,
Speaker 5: but would that have been.
Speaker 3: Ago.
Speaker 2: Those guys are the reason we have game laws today.
Speaker 2: I mean, the market hunting era of the US was
Speaker 2: a wanton a wanton.
Speaker 1: Waste of wild life.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's probably the wrong way to describe it.
Speaker 2: It was an excessive, unsustainable use of wildlife, and so
Speaker 2: the pendulum swung. The pendulum when when those guys first
Speaker 2: got here was that this is an inexhaustible resource that
Speaker 2: will never go away, so we can do whatever we want,
Speaker 2: no rules and regulations. They were market hunting these bears.
Speaker 2: Crockett was making money. He was incentivized financially to go
Speaker 2: and kill as many bears as he could, along with
Speaker 2: thousands of other people. Yeah, and honestly, Krockett killing one
Speaker 2: hundred and five bears in a year really wasn't that
Speaker 2: big a deal. I mean, I there are people in
Speaker 2: the country today who have dogs that they don't they
Speaker 2: don't kill that many, but they tree way more than
Speaker 2: that sometimes in a year, like groups of people like
Speaker 2: a like a in traveling to different states.
Speaker 1: So absolutely.
Speaker 2: But but the way I like to think about it
Speaker 2: is that the wanton disregard of the sustainability of the
Speaker 2: thing produced the most robust wildlife management system in the
Speaker 2: history of mankind, so.
Speaker 1: Absolutely fascinating, fascinating man.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And and it's those stories about Boone and Crockett that
Speaker 2: have have fueled and I'm gonna call it sport hunting,
Speaker 2: even though I don't like that term. Those stories, those guys,
Speaker 2: those archetypes, those icons have fueled the American sport hunting
Speaker 2: culture because we all want to be like those guys.
Speaker 1: I mean we do. I mean, like, I.
Speaker 2: Just love hearing these stories about crocatt And and you know,
Speaker 2: we go out and kill a couple of bears a
Speaker 2: year maybe, and it's like incredible until we eat the
Speaker 2: meat and render the fat. And these guys were killing
Speaker 2: hundreds a year and it's just just wild.
Speaker 4: Do you like bear meat better than deer meat?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Me too.
Speaker 4: I do not, but I do like it, but I
Speaker 4: don't like it.
Speaker 2: You have never if you I fed bear meat last
Speaker 2: night to a family that's not from here and not
Speaker 2: introduced it all to wild game, and every one of
Speaker 2: the kids ate it and loved it. Bear meat doesn't
Speaker 2: have a wild taste. You can screw it up. And
Speaker 2: I don't know how people do. They probably leave a bear.
Speaker 4: And I didn't have wild taste at all. Well, I
Speaker 4: just liked the texture and the taste of deer meat better, really,
Speaker 4: But I've ate deer meat all my life, so that
Speaker 4: may have something to do with it. But I was wondering,
Speaker 4: you know, so they they seem to like bear meat
Speaker 4: better than deer meat. Do you think they liked bear
Speaker 4: hunting better than deer hunting because of the dogs.
Speaker 1: And it's just like today.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's one of people that, I mean, they
Speaker 2: were market hunting for deer as well and making big
Speaker 2: money off of selling the skins. I'm sure it would
Speaker 2: be there would be people that didn't like bear hunting
Speaker 2: with hounds back then because of the work and taking
Speaker 2: care of the dogs, all the same reasons that somebody
Speaker 2: might like not like hound hunting today, just for the
Speaker 2: technicalities of the sport. They might like deer hunting better,
Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, Crockett, it's known who loved
Speaker 2: the bear hunting with hounds, because usually that was the
Speaker 2: thing they were most excited about, and Crockett clearly was.
Speaker 2: Even though there's lots of lots of stories of Crockett
Speaker 2: killing Big Bucks Crockett once in all, in his autobiography,
Speaker 2: he tells that at his house he has on one
Speaker 2: side of the room the rack of a giant buck
Speaker 2: and on the other side the paws of a bear
Speaker 2: in his house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so he was a big dealer.
Speaker 3: How commonplace that was back then, of keeping antlers as
Speaker 3: trophies and stuff like that, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It certainly wasn't as common as is today. I mean,
Speaker 2: like pretty much any buck we killed today, keeping the horns.
Speaker 2: I think those guys kept horns if they were in
Speaker 2: a place where they could get them back to their
Speaker 2: house easily, or a spectacular set of horns like Gershtocker
Speaker 2: when he was in Arkansas would have killed an incredible
Speaker 2: amount of deer in seven years and one time once
Speaker 2: or twice in his book he talked about the side
Speaker 2: of a buck. Now he didn't have the boonecrack and measurement.
Speaker 2: He didn't have a way to say it was one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty inch buck, or his times were long,
Speaker 2: or like they the way they described deer was just
Speaker 2: very rudimentary, a giant stag.
Speaker 1: You know. Now we have these technical ways that we
Speaker 1: describe antlers.
Speaker 2: But I'm amazed though too, even today, like lou Delle
Speaker 2: and Charlie, we did this genuine Outlaws series on Loudale
Speaker 2: and Charlie. Both these guys are passed away, these guys
Speaker 2: from Arkansas. I asked Stony their sons. I said, do
Speaker 2: you have any of the horns from the bucks your
Speaker 2: dad and uncles killed? And he looked at me. It
Speaker 2: was just like now, And I said really and he said, well,
Speaker 2: there's one they had mounted. And I said, what about
Speaker 2: all the other deer and he said, oh, they gave
Speaker 2: horns away. He said, the last last couple of years,
Speaker 2: his dad killed or his uncle killed a big bucket
Speaker 2: deer camp. I mean a big bucket deer camp. And
Speaker 2: he said, we skinned it out and dad gave the
Speaker 2: horns to one of the boys. Well, they just didn't care.
Speaker 4: These deer up here on your wall, why do you
Speaker 4: have them? I mean in your thought process? What do
Speaker 4: you keep antlers for?
Speaker 2: I mean, I would I'm a I'm a product of
Speaker 2: the modern white tail hunting world. I mean, to me,
Speaker 2: a white tail antler is a thing of extreme beauty,
Speaker 2: and it's like a unique art form of nature. That is,
Speaker 2: each one is unique. There's not another one like it.
Speaker 2: I think they the size of a buck represents oftentimes
Speaker 2: the maturity of that animal, the difficulty to kill that animal.
Speaker 1: But I think it's art man.
Speaker 4: They're just memories for me. Now we're human beings. Are
Speaker 4: there were memory collectors that after this moment, all we
Speaker 4: had of the previous moment was memories, and those are
Speaker 4: memory reminders. That's what they are for me. I can
Speaker 4: look up there and I can say, I remember that day,
Speaker 4: I remember what happened. I remember other than that, they
Speaker 4: don't hold a place for me, but they are memory
Speaker 4: reminders of what.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, mister coon hunter. If you
Speaker 2: got a mounted coon in your house.
Speaker 4: I do, and it was bought at Bastpro.
Speaker 1: What do you mean you couldn't buy a real coon?
Speaker 4: Mountn't anything about a coon. I could never. I could
Speaker 4: treat possums. I don't care. It's all about the dog.
Speaker 1: Did you see my stop tree possums?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And not care.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if there were no coons.
Speaker 1: Possum Look up above your head, you see that coon? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That coon?
Speaker 2: Okay, when I killed that coon, I've got a mounted
Speaker 2: coon right up there, Michael, When I killed that coon,
Speaker 2: I we had been hunting hard for five years and
Speaker 2: shooting every coon that we treat and when we killed it,
Speaker 2: I told my son, I said, that is the biggest
Speaker 2: coon I have seen in this five year block, like
Speaker 2: without a doubt. I'd only remembered one I felt like
Speaker 2: was bigger that we killed ten years ago. When I
Speaker 2: was hunting with another guy, I went to my neighbor's
Speaker 2: certified scale. He has a certified livestock scale, and again
Speaker 2: this coon was so big that I was like, boys,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, this is the biggest coon we have
Speaker 2: killed in five years hunting. What do you think that
Speaker 2: coon weighed?
Speaker 1: This is I mean, you don't even need to see it,
Speaker 1: just like it's a mountain coon.
Speaker 4: Yeah, twenty pounds.
Speaker 2: Twenty pounds, okay, biggest coon in five years, fourteen fourteen,
Speaker 2: that's the one that's it, that's him.
Speaker 6: Oh man, yeah, I would say like around fifteen, yeah, fifteen.
Speaker 5: Twenty two, eighty bob.
Speaker 3: One dollar.
Speaker 2: I thought you, I thought you were going to speak French.
Speaker 2: That coon weighed eighteen and a half pounds. Eighteen and
Speaker 2: a half pounds, wow. And most of them are weighing,
Speaker 2: you know in.
Speaker 1: The twelve twelve, bigger one, fourteen fifteen big yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 4: The biggest one I ever killed was the second coon
Speaker 4: we ever killed. He was thirty pounds in Arkansas in
Speaker 4: the Delta. Yeah, and that's huge for down there too.
Speaker 4: I mean a ten to fifteen pound coon to a
Speaker 4: great big coon down there. He was just abnormally large.
Speaker 4: It was second coon we ever treat.
Speaker 3: Hey.
Speaker 2: Maybe this is I don't know, it's been a long
Speaker 2: time since I thought about Opie.
Speaker 1: You know what dog struck that coon?
Speaker 3: Opie? Opie did?
Speaker 1: She sure did.
Speaker 2: That was the first time I thought she might have
Speaker 2: some potential because I turned her out by herself and
Speaker 2: she went up in this hollow and struck a coon
Speaker 2: and she was working at and I tell she couldn't
Speaker 2: quite figure it out. So I turned fern loose right
Speaker 2: behind her or you know, like ten minutes later, and
Speaker 2: they went in there and treated it. So she she
Speaker 2: was young though, but they treat that coon.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Another question about coming back to David Crockett. Yes, do
Speaker 5: you think he was an exceptional bear hunter or do
Speaker 5: you think that it was like do you think that
Speaker 5: he was a bear hunter just like other bear hunters
Speaker 5: would have been at that time, and there was something
Speaker 5: about his personality that made him really stand.
Speaker 3: Out, like his self promotion or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think he was. I think he was
Speaker 2: a top end bear hunter. Like I don't think there
Speaker 2: were many guys that were better than him. I don't
Speaker 2: think he would have been like the best in the
Speaker 2: country at that time. I mean he he was good.
Speaker 2: He was just known. Huh, you know, he was just known.
Speaker 5: Something about that story where he said his friend when
Speaker 5: he went to go get him back, and he said
Speaker 5: that he wouldn't have chased that bear in there. I
Speaker 5: didn't know if that meant he was just taking more
Speaker 5: risks and just kind.
Speaker 4: Of yeah, kind of a wild man.
Speaker 2: That was a good catch because it was hard to
Speaker 2: catch what he was saying. But yeah, he was saying, man,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even gone after that bear like you did.
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I think he was really good, but I think there
Speaker 2: were other guys that were just as good that you
Speaker 2: just didn't care about.
Speaker 4: Didn't the way he was bear hunting with dog though,
Speaker 4: I mean how good a bear hunter he was most
Speaker 4: but depending on how good his dogs were too, and
Speaker 4: they were treeancons, he wasn't still hunting them.
Speaker 1: He may have seen those guys though.
Speaker 2: Back then without GPS callers, it was an athletic event.
Speaker 2: Ohh for sure, you have to stay with the dogs
Speaker 2: and be with them, be within here in distance, going
Speaker 2: to these dogs late at night, spending the night out.
Speaker 3: In the wood.
Speaker 1: I mean it was like a trying to triathlon trying
Speaker 1: to knee kap a bear when you get right next
Speaker 1: to him. And that was that was.
Speaker 2: A pretty good descriptor in the dark feeling the bear
Speaker 2: being bade by me.
Speaker 3: And Michael was listening to it again on the way
Speaker 3: up here today and I said, well, when he was
Speaker 3: talking about he fell down and started his behind, I said,
Speaker 3: well he started on the right end.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now, obviously he was in the the earthquake area. What
Speaker 4: was he calling the hurricane?
Speaker 2: Oh, that is a good question, and I don't have
Speaker 2: a great answer. I had a guy text me today
Speaker 2: and said, what is a hurricane?
Speaker 4: I'm going to assume it was tornado damage?
Speaker 2: That's what I said, really, yeah, I think, yeah, Do
Speaker 2: you have any any more?
Speaker 4: I mean, no, no, that I just assumed that obviously
Speaker 4: there wasn't a hurricane in Tennessee. Yeah, And I don't
Speaker 4: know what they called them back then, but it would
Speaker 4: have probably been tornado damage, which would have been great
Speaker 4: for bear because it would have been exposed to the sun,
Speaker 4: it would have had berries, it would have had.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's exactly what I said, because just think about
Speaker 2: the Eastern deciduous forests being just this one big blanket
Speaker 2: pretty much of a big forest. And like I know
Speaker 2: for a fact, the Hurricane Creek drainage that's within about
Speaker 2: that's in the Ozarks, one of them, Yep, that Gersh
Speaker 2: Darker talked about. He said that they called it the
Speaker 2: hurricane because of a hurricane that came through and went
Speaker 2: through the valley, and they called them hurricanes.
Speaker 1: It was a tornado.
Speaker 2: And then that would create essentially like a clear cut, right,
Speaker 2: it would knock all the trees down. Then the underbrush
Speaker 2: would start to grow up secondary trees, grape vines, berries, blackberries,
Speaker 2: and so if you're if you're in an ancient primeval
Speaker 2: forest that's never been cut before, that would be like
Speaker 2: big hardwood and pine timber like over and over the
Speaker 2: over in that country be a little different, but basically
Speaker 2: big hardwood forest which would have expansive canopy and not
Speaker 2: a lot of understory, which would not be that great
Speaker 2: for wildlife. Where there was disturbance, like a tornado would
Speaker 2: be incredible for wildlife. So that's where they went. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well that's a great that's a good that's a good question.
Speaker 1: Ben. What stood out to you off the top of
Speaker 1: your well, A coupleskin hats.
Speaker 6: It's compty, I like a couple of things. Number one,
Speaker 6: when you're talking about memories, I was immediately transported to
Speaker 6: one of the oldest things I kept from childhood, which
Speaker 6: was my coonskin cat that I got at disney World.
Speaker 3: Really five years old.
Speaker 6: Yeah, five years old, so early nineties, and.
Speaker 3: So that trip.
Speaker 6: I don't remember a ton about that trip, except for
Speaker 6: it's a small world because of its possessive power over
Speaker 6: the human mind, being terrified of the haunted mansion and
Speaker 6: getting that coonskin cat, and I remember my dad buying
Speaker 6: it and handing it to me and be like, that's
Speaker 6: a Davy Crockett hat, and as a youngster being like
Speaker 6: crowned in this superpower. But I didn't know much about him,
Speaker 6: you know. And so one of my one of the
Speaker 6: things I've been pondering about since yesterday listening to it,
Speaker 6: was like I understand why he was significant in a
Speaker 6: celebrity status back then, and just knowing the context and
Speaker 6: the lack of media and the like if you get
Speaker 6: published with anything. I mean, that is like the Internet
Speaker 6: for people.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like everybody had a whole lot to choose from.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, And you know, bear hunting is an exciting
Speaker 6: those are exciting stories because of some of the danger
Speaker 6: involved and stuff. But anyway, the question in my mind
Speaker 6: is like why do we why why does he impress
Speaker 6: himselves so much on us? And my conclusion is that
Speaker 6: it's because he was introducing our childhood, and anything introduced
Speaker 6: in your childhood imprints on you differently than as an adult.
Speaker 6: Like if somebody came to me now and told me
Speaker 6: about the same guy that I never heard of, it's
Speaker 6: gonna be Oh, that's cool. And one example is like sports.
Speaker 6: You know, I when you follow sports guys now as
Speaker 6: an adult, you're like, yeah, they're they're really good. It's cool,
Speaker 6: you're excited, especially if they're on the team that you like.
Speaker 6: But the sports guys I follow when I was a kid, yeah,
Speaker 6: like Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, I was a big Cowboys fan.
Speaker 6: I saw those guys in person. I mean it was
Speaker 6: like I remember writing a letter to Emmitt Smith and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: and I found it later unmailed by my parents.
Speaker 3: But uh yeah, last.
Speaker 1: One on the coon hat minus one.
Speaker 3: I got behind him on the JFK. That what goes
Speaker 3: around Dallas the Interstate Park really and it was I
Speaker 3: remember the license place that catch twenty two. I thought,
Speaker 3: that's kind of weird. As with Drow. I was riding
Speaker 3: my brother. I was driving by and to hit he
Speaker 3: was a Mercedes and his winds rolled down and there
Speaker 3: was in with Smith like that was just wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 3: I should I should have asked you did you ever
Speaker 3: get that?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a funny letter because back as a kid,
Speaker 6: I thought when you really like something, you always use
Speaker 6: the word love. So the whole letters me saying I
Speaker 6: love you, man, I love you.
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 3: Didn't Yeah, yeah, exactly so. But anyway, that was what
Speaker 3: I was thinking about.
Speaker 6: I was like, because I was introduced to this figure
Speaker 6: as a young kid, it's like such a.
Speaker 2: Well, that's who Disney targeted in the nineteen fifties. They
Speaker 2: didn't target the dads. They targeted the kids and sold
Speaker 2: them a bunch of stuff brilliantly like we we America
Speaker 2: came back from World War Two and had all this
Speaker 2: ability to produce trinkets, and people had extra money, and
Speaker 2: there was all this manufacturing and plastic and all this stuff,
Speaker 2: and it it it created this merchandising frenzy over Crockett,
Speaker 2: which imprinted the nation. And then we inherited it. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm ten years older than you or something, Ben, and
Speaker 2: we we kind of inherited Crockett.
Speaker 1: And I remember the Crockett song vividly.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could have told you all the high
Speaker 2: points of Davy Crockett and that he was like a
Speaker 2: bad to the bone dude and a hunter coonskin hat.
Speaker 3: Just liked him.
Speaker 2: Like when I see when I see fest Parker's picture
Speaker 2: wearing buckskins and carrying a long rifle, it just I
Speaker 2: just like it, like I just I mean, I would
Speaker 2: have even pre researching him. It's just like ingrained in us.
Speaker 2: And that's that's what's so interesting to me. It's like,
Speaker 2: why does my brother was the one who sang the
Speaker 2: Davy ballat of Davy Crockett, Zach nukelemb Oh, it was Zach.
Speaker 1: And it's like, Zach's not a big hunter.
Speaker 2: He did kill a nice buck last year, two years ago,
Speaker 2: but you know, like why does Zach neuclemb Remember the
Speaker 2: Davy Crockett song. I mean, how many how many songs
Speaker 2: from nineteenth the nineteen fifties could he just sing with
Speaker 2: a with a single cue of one.
Speaker 1: Word Crockett, go Davy even Crockt. Probably not many. So
Speaker 1: it's like how why It is kind of a mystery.
Speaker 6: It's your childhood swear you're at Devenamilenny, how you grab
Speaker 6: a hold of things.
Speaker 2: But I think it's more complex than that though, be
Speaker 2: I mean, that's definitely major component, But I also think
Speaker 2: it's because there's something to grab on too that goes
Speaker 2: back to this American identity of when we were first America.
Speaker 2: And I mean, even if you're patriotic, you're not patriotic.
Speaker 2: That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying the
Speaker 2: fact that he was. He did something to the culture
Speaker 2: that was big. And what we're going to learn in
Speaker 2: episode two is that Crockett influenced a bunch of people.
Speaker 2: Crockett influenced Lincoln, Crockett influenced Mark Twain. Crockett influenced American
Speaker 2: culture like BAM and so when we hear him, it's
Speaker 2: like our blood, you know what I mean, And it
Speaker 2: just like and obviously to some people more than others.
Speaker 2: I'm interested in rural America and hunting and something. You know,
Speaker 2: crock is gonna mean something.
Speaker 3: It was really you know, I didn't see it was
Speaker 3: reruns when I was a kid. I was born in
Speaker 3: sixty six. So when did that Walt Disney Stuffy five? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: so it was there were reruns that when Walked Wide
Speaker 3: World of Disney or whatever it was. It it came
Speaker 3: on Sunday evenings, and we was always wanting, oh, man,
Speaker 3: I hope it's David Crockett. Hope it's Daniel Boom.
Speaker 2: You mean, you couldn't fast forward and record actually had
Speaker 2: to be there, you had to be there.
Speaker 3: On NBC on Channel four. But when when that would
Speaker 3: come on, it was immediately we were engaged in it
Speaker 3: because he was doing stuff that we knew about. You know,
Speaker 3: we could watch Escape from Which Mountain or all the
Speaker 3: other stories and movies that you know, Herpie and Doctor,
Speaker 3: the Professor, the Nutty Professor or whatever, and he's making
Speaker 3: tennis shoes that you can jump over and shoot a basket,
Speaker 3: getting shoot a basketball. All of these movies that were
Speaker 3: just so far fetched from anything that I'd ever seen before,
Speaker 3: but somebody walking out of the house with a rifle
Speaker 3: in your hand and dragging a deer back. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: not only do I know that I've done that, or
Speaker 3: I watched my dad do it, or it was something
Speaker 3: immediately that you could you could grab on through that,
Speaker 3: you know this he's like us, yeah, and we're like
Speaker 3: and we're like him like a reality show. Yeah for real.
Speaker 3: It was just like he's femine uncle Charles there, you know,
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 1: So what was your favorite part? What stood out to you, Brent.
Speaker 3: In this part or in this this edition, I guess
Speaker 3: episode the part where knowing I didn't know here that
Speaker 3: he wrote his own book, I didn't know that. So
Speaker 3: and I've I actually ordered it from Amazon and I'll
Speaker 3: be yep, that's the one, and I'm.
Speaker 5: Titled David Crockett not Day Yeah David.
Speaker 3: So I'm anxious to read that and out of all
Speaker 3: the stuff, you know, I've been familiar with in my
Speaker 3: whole life since I was six or seven, you know,
Speaker 3: and remember that kind of stuff. And I'm I'm today
Speaker 3: years old, actually Wednesday when that came out that I
Speaker 3: learned that he wrote his own autobiography. Yeah, so I'm.
Speaker 2: Not feeling like Michael. I'm gonna be coming back to
Speaker 2: you in just a second to ask you what was
Speaker 2: your favorite part or what you learned. I think I
Speaker 2: think the Crockett autobiography in a way did him disservice.
Speaker 2: And I think you'll see it if you read it
Speaker 2: when I first read it.
Speaker 3: Don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will, I will taint. I will put my
Speaker 2: thoughts on top of you. But that's kind of what
Speaker 2: we do on this podcast.
Speaker 3: You can want to try to step out, just try
Speaker 3: to anything he puts towards me anyway.
Speaker 2: No, Crockett, this was a political rebuttal. This was a
Speaker 2: political rebuttal. He was he was being we're gonna learn
Speaker 2: all this in episode three about his political career. But
Speaker 2: basically they thought he was the only guy that could
Speaker 2: beat Andrew Jackson. And so this this group, this political group,
Speaker 2: the Whigs, were trying to recording him for presidential run,
Speaker 2: which was wild, like it would it would be almost
Speaker 2: equivalent to like a Donald Trump running for president. It's
Speaker 2: just this this like wild yeah, even though he was
Speaker 2: in politics, but it was just like just like wow, really.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And those two were enemies also Jackson. Jackson and
Speaker 4: for sure. Yeah, they didn't like each other at all,
Speaker 4: hadn't liked each other from way back.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep.
Speaker 2: And so this book is not If I was his editor,
Speaker 2: I would have been like, hey, dude, we got to
Speaker 2: cut all the last fortune, you know, you would have
Speaker 2: about half of it's really about his life and the
Speaker 2: other half is kind of political retribution in a way,
Speaker 2: kind of talking about and so he's it's in some
Speaker 2: ways it's incredible that we have this book because we
Speaker 2: actually get to hear the voice of Crockett through his words,
Speaker 2: which we didn't have for Boone.
Speaker 1: Did I talk about that?
Speaker 2: So that was one of the things that was kind
Speaker 2: of mysterious about Boone is we never heard his actual voice.
Speaker 2: There was a chapter that was supposedly written by him
Speaker 2: in his voice in Philson's book, but it wasn't Boone
Speaker 2: at all. Like Philson wrote it in Boone's voice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because his son said that wasn't the words of
Speaker 4: his father.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right, And this is Fox Show
Speaker 2: the words of David Crockett. And so like when he
Speaker 2: tells bear hunting stories, when he talks about his childhood
Speaker 2: and he talks, he does talk a lot about very
Speaker 2: personal stuff, which is incredible. But anyway, you kind of
Speaker 2: I make a lot of excuses for Crockett, uh, trying
Speaker 2: to prove that he's cool so that Steve Ronelle will
Speaker 2: like him, saying that if he'd have had a good editor,
Speaker 2: he wouldn't have had this problem because Azure would have
Speaker 2: been like, hate you can't you can't talk about yourself
Speaker 2: like that, and Crockett would have been like, no problem,
Speaker 2: I won't.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I got.
Speaker 3: To remember the time it was, consider everything that was
Speaker 3: the time that it was in. You know, the way
Speaker 3: we think now about things is far different from what
Speaker 3: they thought about stuff. Yeah, so I think he gets
Speaker 3: a pass on that, on a lot of that. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: because of the world he was in.
Speaker 6: You could see how it would eat at you too
Speaker 6: as a person in politics, not ever getting to feel
Speaker 6: like the whole truth's out your side of it, and
Speaker 6: then you pass events that that happened.
Speaker 3: You want to get your beef out. You know, it
Speaker 3: ain't like now when everything you ever have ever said
Speaker 3: can come out. I mean that, dude, what a very
Speaker 3: minute percentage of his thoughts and ideas were probably got out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yet we got whipped whipped my wit and wildcats
Speaker 5: out of them.
Speaker 4: So, but him speaking about politics in that book was
Speaker 4: something that had to have driven him quite a bit
Speaker 4: there in the last part of his life, because politics
Speaker 4: is what ended him up at the Alamo. I mean,
Speaker 4: losing those elections is why he'd still been in Tennessee
Speaker 4: or in Congress or something. So that that's a huge
Speaker 4: part of his life that he wants to set the
Speaker 4: record straight on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 2: It's hard to blame him for it because they they
Speaker 2: had written multiple fake autobiographies, which at the time there
Speaker 2: was nothing.
Speaker 1: People could do.
Speaker 2: People people would I mean, there was no retribution and
Speaker 2: there was no way to know it was gonna happen,
Speaker 2: or they didn't even know who wrote them.
Speaker 1: Like it was just like David Crockett.
Speaker 3: I thought it was funny that when the guy you
Speaker 3: talked Tom trying to remember his name.
Speaker 1: Scott Williams, Yeah, our Scott Williams.
Speaker 3: When he said he got interested in that name, image
Speaker 3: and likeness stuff, and I thought, wow, you know that
Speaker 3: was the thing even back then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and that that was a it's a it's
Speaker 2: it's kind of splitting hairs a little bit because when
Speaker 2: we talked about Boone, we talked about how Boone was
Speaker 2: an American archetype and he was one of the first
Speaker 2: folk heroes of America and Boone rose to global fame
Speaker 2: in his lifetime. Crockett did the same thing. But there's
Speaker 2: some hair splitting difference in what happened with him Boone.
Speaker 2: And again we said this on the podcast, but Boone
Speaker 2: didn't become famous till he was in his mid fifties,
Speaker 2: and all the stuff he did that made him famous,
Speaker 2: he did not knowing anyone would ever know about it, right,
Speaker 2: And that's why Steve says that Boone should not even
Speaker 2: be on the same page as Crockett, because that's cool, Like,
Speaker 2: I mean, you want your hero to be doing what
Speaker 2: he's doing, not because somebody's going to put him on Instagram,
Speaker 2: not because somebody's going to write a book about him
Speaker 2: that somebody's going to say he's cool.
Speaker 5: Is that is that Stevenella's beef with Crockett, that he
Speaker 5: was interfa with his own old jack about Crockett.
Speaker 1: He's going to after he listens to this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, no, that that it was the celebrity status.
Speaker 2: He doesn't And it's the same thing that I am
Speaker 2: working through with Crockett, like I'm really trying to understand it,
Speaker 2: because Boone didn't become famous until mid fifties, and Boone
Speaker 2: did stuff to try to capitalize on that fame to
Speaker 2: some degree, but he was already but but he just
Speaker 2: wasn't in control of it as much. And Boone dies
Speaker 2: an impoverished man. If you remember when Boone died, the
Speaker 2: last guy, the only real portrait that we have of
Speaker 2: Boone was painted of him when he was in his
Speaker 2: late seventies, maybe even early eighties, right before he died,
Speaker 2: and a painter went from the North down into Missouri,
Speaker 2: like there was no way to like call and say,
Speaker 2: mister Boone, can I come next Thursday to your house
Speaker 2: to paint your picture? And a painting session would take
Speaker 2: days or even weeks, you know, because they're literally having
Speaker 2: the guy set there and they're they're painting him. And
Speaker 2: so this guy travels from the northeast, hoping that Boone
Speaker 2: is still alive, and goes and goes to Boone's neighbor
Speaker 2: who lived within a mile of him, and says, do
Speaker 2: you know where this mister Boone is? And the guy
Speaker 2: was like, I don't even know who you're talking. He goes,
Speaker 2: he's an old man and he looks like this, and
Speaker 2: he was like, oh that guy, yeah, he lives right.
Speaker 1: Down the road.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that was Daniel Boone Crockett. So you know, I
Speaker 2: would say Boone was more of an archetype folk hero,
Speaker 2: not so much a celebrity. Crockett knew of his fame,
Speaker 2: interacted with his fame, tried to capitalize on his fame,
Speaker 2: which I don't blame him for. I mean, it's like
Speaker 2: that's what people do.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: And he he did stuff like write books, and then
Speaker 2: what busted him for Ranella is the Line of the
Speaker 2: West play that was a Broadway play that was in
Speaker 2: Europe as well. I mean, this is like major and
Speaker 2: this is major American stuff too, because this is one
Speaker 2: of the first major American theatric theatrical productions that went global,
Speaker 2: and it's called Line of the West. Key character is
Speaker 2: Nimrod Wildfire, who is one Davy Crockett.
Speaker 1: Crockett's alive.
Speaker 2: Crockett's like in his thirties and and everybody knows Nimrod
Speaker 2: Wildfire's Crockett and uh in Crockett, they invite him to
Speaker 2: New York.
Speaker 1: To go to the play. That's what gets Steve.
Speaker 3: Is he went because he went.
Speaker 1: He went, He went to the play.
Speaker 2: And when Nimrod Wildfire walked out onto the stage Broadway
Speaker 2: production of New York Nimrod Wildfire, the actor stops, takes
Speaker 2: off his coonskin hat and tips his hat to Crockett,
Speaker 2: who's sitting in the balcony.
Speaker 1: And what does our boy Crockett do? He stands up
Speaker 1: and waves to the crowd, just like reeves what it does.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, So this is my question. If Stevid hunted his
Speaker 4: entire life, no one really knew who he was, somebody
Speaker 4: heard a little something about him, and he found out
Speaker 4: in New York there was a play about him. You
Speaker 4: think he wouldn't have went and seen him.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'll ask him. Yeah, No, it's it's
Speaker 1: so in a SoundBite you would you could say Crockett
Speaker 1: was like vain compared to and we'll hear other stuff.
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you I think I I I.
Speaker 3: Think it's apples and oranges different times. Yep. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean there's a little overlap, but it was after you
Speaker 3: know what I was thinking. There was a huge difference
Speaker 3: between I mean when Daniel Boone was in his thirties
Speaker 3: and when David.
Speaker 2: And and I'm not picking on Steve Vanella in this
Speaker 2: in this segment, but what would Crockett have today if
Speaker 2: he were here? What what would he do? He'd have
Speaker 2: a television show, He'd be on Instagram, I mean just
Speaker 2: like me, I mean, you.
Speaker 1: Know, just like me. And he'd be looking for a
Speaker 1: good dog. But he only had one walker dog.
Speaker 4: Michael, Oh, that's it. He would.
Speaker 2: Did you pick up on that in in the in
Speaker 2: the bear hunting story when they were in the in
Speaker 2: the cracks.
Speaker 4: I didn't hear anything about a walker dog.
Speaker 2: Well, and he didn't say walker see you boys, you
Speaker 2: gotta turn on your listening ears. He said that it
Speaker 2: was at night, and he said there was one white dog.
Speaker 2: See I mean if there was one white one, that
Speaker 2: means the rest of them were dark. Ye, So that
Speaker 2: it had to be a walker you know, some type
Speaker 2: of walker dog they like to bob their tails.
Speaker 4: Some kind of English foxhound more than likely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it wouldn't have been a straight
Speaker 2: up walker because it really probably wouldn't even hardly made
Speaker 2: by then.
Speaker 4: Walker's no, well, I mean they come mid nineteenth century.
Speaker 3: The actual straight up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, actual treeing walker b Yeah right.
Speaker 2: Crockett said, And we're gonna learn about this on the
Speaker 2: next episode. I don't know why I'm telling you now,
Speaker 2: but they like to bob the tails of their bear dogs.
Speaker 4: Makes sense, Yeah, especially hunting in the hurricane. Yeah, because
Speaker 4: are gonna whip its pieces.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we didn't have a squirrel dog. The tail wasn't.
Speaker 1: Bob Yeah, it's really just aesthetics.
Speaker 4: Well, it gives it's a little less to grab a
Speaker 4: hole to by bear. Also, that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but today you won't find houndsman bobbing tails out west.
Speaker 2: They do sometimes because their tails are him cactus and stuff.
Speaker 4: I've seen a lot of beagles with bob tail. Oh
Speaker 4: really Yeah, because they beat him to death and the briars.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Michael, what stood out to you?
Speaker 4: I wanted to see him slide down that honey locus.
Speaker 4: That's what I wanted.
Speaker 1: Ohio.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he might make the Ohio. He's not gonna
Speaker 4: make it down that honey locus without a scratch. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I enjoyed it. I don't guess what I've read. There
Speaker 4: hadn't been a whole lot about the bear hunting stuff.
Speaker 4: Most of what you read covers his childhood and then
Speaker 4: on into that. It calls him a hunter, but it
Speaker 4: doesn't really go into depths on the bear hunting stuff.
Speaker 4: I thought it was pretty neat about him being in
Speaker 4: those hirk or the earthquake cracks. Yeah, yeah, that was
Speaker 4: pretty cool. Yeah, but you know, he was just a
Speaker 4: guy doing what everyone else did. So, I mean, just
Speaker 4: like we always said about Boone, he was just he.
Speaker 4: He wouldn't have even known. I mean, could you imagine
Speaker 4: going through your entire life thinking you were doing what
Speaker 4: everyone else was doing and look up and they had
Speaker 4: to play about you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: So although he did, was the play before or after
Speaker 4: the politics? It was before, wasn't it?
Speaker 2: No, Because the politics are what made him known. Okay,
Speaker 2: the play was in the eighteen thirties and he got
Speaker 2: into politics in the early eighteen twenties. So politics is
Speaker 2: what took him to the national stage. I mean that it's
Speaker 2: the only reason he would have had even a voice
Speaker 2: for people to know who he was. And then he
Speaker 2: started in his political speeches, he started talking about hunting,
Speaker 2: and we're going to we'll get into it a lot more,
Speaker 2: but basically on his first political speech he said he
Speaker 2: got up before the crowd and his opponent they used
Speaker 2: to travel together with their opponents, and he said, his
Speaker 2: opponent spoke and was this like diplomatic, you know, just
Speaker 2: like political speech. And Crockett had his political speech formed
Speaker 2: and he got up and he said, he describes it
Speaker 2: really well. He said, I felt like there was a
Speaker 2: cotton There was cotton grown in my throat, and I
Speaker 2: couldn't get a word out for any give some funny anecdote,
Speaker 2: and he.
Speaker 1: Said, I was so choked up, I thought I was
Speaker 1: going to cry.
Speaker 2: And he said, and all I know to do was
Speaker 2: start telling them a hunt It's basically told them a
Speaker 2: hunting story. Yeah, And the people loved it, like they
Speaker 2: they thought the other guy was a dork.
Speaker 1: And Crockett was like, oh, I see how this works.
Speaker 2: And so he just got up in front of people
Speaker 2: and talked about hunting, made fun of his opposition, was
Speaker 2: self deprecating, stole their speech, stole yep, stole their speech.
Speaker 1: Really, he was just ye.
Speaker 4: Before the guy went on stage, he gave his speech,
Speaker 4: gave the other guy's speech.
Speaker 1: Man, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh we're going to get
Speaker 1: into all that later.
Speaker 4: Oh. I did want to say one thing about you though,
Speaker 4: deciduous forced.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Never in the history of He'll billy has there ever
Speaker 4: been one say that? So every time you say it,
Speaker 4: it takes your credibility down just a little bit. What
Speaker 4: do you mean, I mean, they just don't say it?
Speaker 4: Did you say the woods Man hard?
Speaker 1: I say deciduous on this podcast?
Speaker 3: You did?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah you did.
Speaker 4: And when you said.
Speaker 1: Yeah, deciduous one of my favorite words.
Speaker 4: Never in the history of He'll billy them, has there
Speaker 4: ever been one say that. I just wanted to warn you.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, that's that's good to know.
Speaker 3: Good.
Speaker 4: I know you like your He'll billy crid So he's
Speaker 4: faking it.
Speaker 2: I figured I said it wrong. Every time I do
Speaker 2: a podcast, Missy's like Clay, you said that, totally skipping
Speaker 2: words that I don't know, putting a new word. No,
Speaker 2: this has been a fun, fun series.
Speaker 1: We've got got three more Boom podcast. I don't even
Speaker 1: know who this guy. I don't even know who this
Speaker 1: guy is. Yeah, Wallace biography is.
Speaker 2: Really good. It's it's my favorite. R Scott Williams is
Speaker 2: really good too. He takes a little bit his angle
Speaker 2: is a little more narrow, which is unique in that
Speaker 2: he was really interested in Crockett's celebrity status because R.
Speaker 2: Scott Williams super neat guy, incredible guy. He he is
Speaker 2: the lead man at the Discovery Park Museum in Union City, Tennessee.
Speaker 1: Which is an incredible place.
Speaker 2: Union City, Tennessee's is a little it's small town, like
Speaker 2: ten thousand people and they have a world class natural
Speaker 2: History American museum in that town. That there was some
Speaker 2: rich guy that lived in that town that had an
Speaker 2: enormous amount of money and he said, I want to
Speaker 2: build a museum here, and it's totally worth it if
Speaker 2: you're in that part of the world to go there
Speaker 2: by yourself or take your kids. They got a big
Speaker 2: they got a big Crocket section. But our Scott Williams
Speaker 2: really really cool guy.
Speaker 1: So his book is good.
Speaker 5: Too, I know they I know there's literally saying about
Speaker 5: not judging a book by its cover, but it's got
Speaker 5: a pretty cool color.
Speaker 2: Go Crocket wearing a pair of cool shades, looking pretty sporty.
Speaker 1: America's first celebrity.
Speaker 3: Hey, I got a question here. Everybody in here that
Speaker 3: had a coonskin cap growing up, raise their hands. You
Speaker 3: didn't have one.
Speaker 1: That's a good question.
Speaker 3: There's five of us in here, and only two of
Speaker 3: us did. I would assumed you and Michael would have
Speaker 3: had one. Growing up. You were just trying to put
Speaker 3: me on the as I was. I was going to
Speaker 3: I thought it was going to be a four to
Speaker 3: one for sure. Though, yeah I did too.
Speaker 2: I may have had one. I don't want to lie
Speaker 2: and say I did. It wasn't prominent.
Speaker 3: Well, you're the only grown up that I know that
Speaker 3: has any right now. But as a kid, I was
Speaker 3: just wondering, and it was. It was. It was because
Speaker 3: that well you just said it.
Speaker 2: Because it's now, Ben, your hat would have had probably
Speaker 2: a real tail, but a fake precisely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about yours, Brent?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was wherever. I mean. It came with a
Speaker 3: flint lock rifle on the flint lock pistol.
Speaker 2: I was in Missouri last year and I saw a
Speaker 2: double coontail hat for the same price as a single coontail.
Speaker 2: I'm serious. The gas station in central Missouri. Walk in
Speaker 2: there and there's rack full of Daniel Boone. They market
Speaker 2: quite a bit with Boone on the coonskin.
Speaker 5: Hats these days, so interesting.
Speaker 2: Usually it's Daniel Boone. But there was a rack of
Speaker 2: Daniel Boone coonskin caps and their their foe like they're
Speaker 2: a faux fur on top, but they actually are real
Speaker 2: coontails because the coontail and the actual fur market is
Speaker 2: not valuable, like when they're they are making fur garments
Speaker 2: out of coon hides and so, but they don't use
Speaker 2: the tail. They just use the prime parts of the
Speaker 2: hide today and so the tails they sell to make
Speaker 2: kids hats, but they use faux fur. Anyway, there was
Speaker 2: this hat. It had double coontails coming off the side,
Speaker 2: and it was like twelve ninety nine. And then I
Speaker 2: was like, oh dude, if that's twelve ninety nine, the
Speaker 2: single coontail is probably like six ninety nine, and it
Speaker 2: was twelve ninety nine.
Speaker 3: Two. Wow.
Speaker 1: It would have been a really unique experiment to send
Speaker 1: a kid in there and say pick out which coonskin
Speaker 1: hat want the one with the two tails with the
Speaker 1: one tail. Thank you guys for coming up here today.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Good looking forward to the next three episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, life changing, It's gonna be good. Gonna be good.
Speaker 1: Maybe one day we'll sell these hats on the metator
Speaker 1: dot com.
Speaker 3: Wow, Just get some more, Just get some more.
Speaker 1: I got a freezer full of coon hides out there.
Speaker 4: Can he make one a little bigger?
Speaker 1: Maybe for you special justiflgainness. All right, guys, this is
Speaker 1: an awesome take care