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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 3: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 3: What do we have, Christal Indeed.

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Speaker 1: We do lots of interesting stories to talk about this morning,

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Speaker 1: including oral arguments in a landmark free speech case in

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Speaker 1: front of the Supreme Court. This one is really really interesting,

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Speaker 1: cuts across ideological lines, deals with a lot of very

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Speaker 1: thorny issues around state power and social media. So we're

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Speaker 1: going to dig into that and tell you what the

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Speaker 1: implications could be. We also have some new theories out

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Speaker 1: about something we talked about yesterday, Trump's consistent underperformance in

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Speaker 1: the primaries that have been held so far. Nate Conden

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Speaker 1: analysis of different theories of why that may be occurring.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to take a look at that and

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Speaker 1: what that could mean for the future and for the

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Speaker 1: general election. We also have new details about the death

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Speaker 1: of Russian dissident Alexei Navalny that we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into what exactly the hell happened there interesting details that

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Speaker 1: are coming out now from his team and from others.

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden was on late night. That's all I got

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Speaker 1: to say about that. Yeah, we've got We've got some

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Speaker 1: highlights from that to bring to you. Also, today is

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Speaker 1: the primary in Michigan, and obviously Joe Biden very much

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Speaker 1: expected to win. However, a very open question about how

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Speaker 1: many voters, especially young voters, are going to cast their

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Speaker 1: ballot for uncommitted as a rebuke of Joe Biden and

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Speaker 1: his unconditional support for Israel. John Stewart was back on

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Speaker 1: last night with some Israel takes.

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Speaker 4: We'll take a look at that.

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Speaker 1: And I am looking at an extraordinary scandal that is

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Speaker 1: unfolding right now at the New York Times that is

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Speaker 1: just absolutely unbelievable. This woman with literally no journalistic experience

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Speaker 1: ending up with a byline on one of the most

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Speaker 1: fraud and sensitive stories of all time that has now

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Speaker 1: been discredited. I can't even believe some of the details here,

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Speaker 1: so we'll break all of that down for you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really excited to hear that report.

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Speaker 2: As a reminder for Breakingpoints dot com, you can become

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Speaker 2: a pre subscriber. We're doing a exclusive subscriber only livestream

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Speaker 2: after the State of the Union where our subscribers can

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Speaker 2: interact with us and ask questions. You're going to learn

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Speaker 2: some more details, but I think it's going to be

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun. So if you could support that

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Speaker 2: and all of our work, we're already developing new focus groups.

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Speaker 2: We've got the State of the Union special etc. You

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Speaker 2: can go ahead and sign up for that. But let's

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Speaker 2: go ahead and begin with this social media case because

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Speaker 2: it is probably one of the most significant First Amendment

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Speaker 2: cases to come before the Court in quite a long time.

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Speaker 2: It comes down to two separate laws in the state

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Speaker 2: of Florida and the state of Texas which were designed

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Speaker 2: by these two state legislators to try and protect quote

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Speaker 2: unquote conservative viewpoints. But the legal question before the court,

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Speaker 2: and its actually frankly very interesting, is this, It does

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Speaker 2: do the tech platforms Are they common carriers as classified

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Speaker 2: by these state legislatures aka like the Internet company which

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Speaker 2: doesn't censor information that you or I might be pinging,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't have any say at an auditorial judgment.

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Speaker 2: Or are they editorial platforms that have the right to

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Speaker 2: pick and choose the way that a newspaper would the

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Speaker 2: way that you or I would. The reason why this

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Speaker 2: is all at play is it comes back to the

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Speaker 2: way that they were originally classified, where the tech companies

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Speaker 2: effectively are both allowed to behave as quasi common carriers

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Speaker 2: because of the monopolistic effects of the network basically the

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Speaker 2: network effects of their business, but also because of pre

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Speaker 2: existing law from nineteen ninety six Section two thirty of

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Speaker 2: the Communications and Decency Act.

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Speaker 3: Which also allow them to have some editorial judgment.

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Speaker 2: So basically, the states have passed these separate laws.

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Speaker 3: They're now before the court.

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Speaker 2: The people who are challenging the laws are the trade

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Speaker 2: Organization which represents all of the big tech companies. We

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Speaker 2: have a little bit of flavor from the arguments which

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Speaker 2: showed some skepticism but also some interesting alignment between some

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Speaker 2: of the liberal justices and the Republicans and then some

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Speaker 2: of the more conservative justices who are countering. First here,

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Speaker 2: we're going to play for you some questioning by Justice

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Speaker 2: Alido of the lawyers about who exactly is making speech determinations,

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Speaker 2: what the algorithm is, and how the mechanics of this

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Speaker 2: all work.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 5: They're not going to see a bunch of material that

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Speaker 5: glorifies suicide.

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Speaker 6: Is there any distinction between action or editing that takes

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Speaker 6: place as a result of an algorithm as opposed to

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Speaker 6: an individual?

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Speaker 5: I don't think so. You're honored. These algorithms don't spring

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Speaker 5: from the ether. They are essentially computer programs designed by

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Speaker 5: humans to try to do some of this editorial function

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Speaker 5: is number what do you.

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Speaker 6: Do with to say, deep learning algorithm which teaches itself

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Speaker 6: and has very little human intervention, You.

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Speaker 5: Still had to have somebody who kind created the universe

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Speaker 5: that that algorithm is going to look for.

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Speaker 6: Who's speaking then the algorithm or the person?

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Speaker 5: I think you know, the question in these cases would

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Speaker 5: be the Facebook is speaking, that YouTube is speaking, because

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Speaker 5: they're the ones that are using these devices to run

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Speaker 5: their editorial discretion across these massive volumes. And the reason

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Speaker 5: they're doing this, and of course they're supplementing it with

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Speaker 5: lots and lots of humans as well, But the reason

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Speaker 5: they have to use the algorithms, of course, is the

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Speaker 5: volume of material on these sites, which just shows you

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Speaker 5: the volume of editorial discretion.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and finally, I'm sorry to keep going this deplement.

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Speaker 6: Exactly what are they saying? So is the algorithm saying

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Speaker 6: I don't know, I'm not on any you know, But

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Speaker 6: what is it saying it's safe? Is it a consistent message?

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Speaker 6: What I mean? Usually when we had Hurly, uh, the

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Speaker 6: it was their parade and they didn't want certain people

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Speaker 6: in their parade, you understood that. What are they saying here?

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Speaker 5: They're saying things like Facebook doesn't want pro terrorist.

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Speaker 2: Stuff on our Okay, So as you see as a

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Speaker 2: little bit of the pushback there from the lawyers for them.

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Speaker 2: But Crystal, it's a very interesting question, and it really

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Speaker 2: comes back to, as I said, some of the press

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Speaker 2: release for example, that they put out, they go just

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Speaker 2: as Florida may not tell the New York Times what

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Speaker 2: opinion pieces to publish or Fox News what interviews to air,

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Speaker 2: it may not tell Facebook and YouTube what content to disseminate.

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Speaker 2: He's looping in the algorithm with the plugged in editorial judgment.

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Speaker 2: The crux of the Texas and the Texas and the

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Speaker 2: Florida law are that there is a baseline free speech assumption,

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Speaker 2: especially in the case of the Florida law that applies

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Speaker 2: to elected representatives, that does not allow for editorial discretion

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Speaker 2: of these quote unquote standards to come into play. I

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Speaker 2: think it's a very important one. I definitely support the law,

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Speaker 2: even if it may be intended to be applied solely

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Speaker 2: or whatever to conservative viewpoints. But I think that's why

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Speaker 2: we've seen even liberal outlets and people who are skeptical

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Speaker 2: of technology and not really necessarily supportive of Texas or

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Speaker 2: Florida who say that if they rule in the opposite direction,

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Speaker 2: you're giving them carte blanche to censor whatever they want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd encourage you to in some ways put aside

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Speaker 1: the specific of the motivations of these particular laws and

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Speaker 1: think about the core issues here. So the argument from

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Speaker 1: the tech companies is effectively like the libertarian argument. We

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Speaker 1: are you know, we have these companies and we have

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Speaker 1: a right to basically run them the way that we want.

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Speaker 1: We have a right to enforce our terms of service.

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Speaker 1: We are not a government, so we are not subject

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Speaker 1: to free speech laws, and basically we can do what

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Speaker 1: we want on our platforms. On the other side is

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Speaker 1: states like Florida and Texas and presumably other states around

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Speaker 1: the country that also have an interest in this saying no,

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Speaker 1: this is the modern public square. Free speech is incredibly

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Speaker 1: important for society on these platforms because that is the

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Speaker 1: way our society is constituted at this point, and the

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Speaker 1: state has an interest in making sure that there is

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Speaker 1: some level of free speech, especially with regard to elections

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Speaker 1: and candidates, that is protected and preserved on these platforms.

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Speaker 1: And so the interest of citizens and of the state

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Speaker 1: in protecting free speech rights is superior to the interests

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Speaker 1: of these companies that are arguing not we have free

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Speaker 1: speech rights.

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Speaker 4: To publish on our platforms what we want.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that I would say here in terms

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Speaker 1: of these companies Zagur is they really want to have

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Speaker 1: it both ways in terms of this question about whether

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Speaker 1: they're common carriers or whether they're publishers. When they don't

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Speaker 1: want responsibility for bad things that are published on their platforms, oh,

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Speaker 1: then they're not publishers.

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Speaker 4: They're common carriers.

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Speaker 1: They don't want any liability and any responsibility for the

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Speaker 1: content that's going on on their platforms. But when they

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Speaker 1: want to effectively please their advertisers and protect their business models. Then, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're publishers, this is our speech. We have to protect

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Speaker 1: our free speech rights here, and we're just making editorial

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Speaker 1: judgments in the same way as the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: And I would say basically like, you can't have it

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Speaker 1: both ways. And so to me, that's sort of the

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Speaker 1: core of the issue here. Now, I do think that

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Speaker 1: the questions are somewhat complex, right. I do think it

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Speaker 1: is a thorny, tricky issue to legislate. Okay, where is

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Speaker 1: the line? How much can these states just dictate to

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Speaker 1: companies how to run their platforms and who to censor

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Speaker 1: and who not doesn't start.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that can get into very tricky grounds as well.

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Speaker 1: But when I think about it at bottom, when you

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Speaker 1: have this core competition between the corporations and the state,

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Speaker 1: at least the state, there's some sort of theoretical democratic

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Speaker 1: mechanism for making these choices and having citizen input into

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Speaker 1: way that free speech is mediated and moderated and permitted

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Speaker 1: on these platforms. Versus with a company, whether it's a

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Speaker 1: public company or private company.

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Speaker 4: You have no say.

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Speaker 1: It's just up to these few oligarchs what they feel

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Speaker 1: like doing on their platform with massive costs and consequences

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Speaker 1: as we've seen for society.

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Speaker 2: I'll continue and dig into a little bit what you

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Speaker 2: said where you're talking about liability and this is something

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Speaker 2: that we can understand, but people who are not publishing

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Speaker 2: may not, which is at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: as editorial organizations like breaking points like The New York

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Speaker 2: Times or others we because we curate information, are also

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Speaker 2: liable under defamation and libel law, as in, if we

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Speaker 2: were to publish something which was absolutely wrong and that

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Speaker 2: somebody could then prove that we knew it was wrong

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Speaker 2: before we published it, and we did it specifically to

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Speaker 2: defige or reliable somebody else, they could take us to court.

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Speaker 3: But the section two thirty of.

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Speaker 2: The Communications in Decent Yacht actually allows the social media

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Speaker 2: companies not to be liable under the same standard, as in,

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Speaker 2: if I take to Facebook and I quote unquote defame

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Speaker 2: somebody else, that person cannot sue Facebook for platforming defamation.

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Speaker 2: So in that case, they're trying to treat themselves as

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Speaker 2: a common carrier in the same way that common carrier

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Speaker 2: like at and T. They have no editorial judgment over

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Speaker 2: who I pick up and call. They don't drop my

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Speaker 2: phone call because I'm saying problematic things. Maybe the government will,

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Speaker 2: but that's a different story in terms of how the

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Speaker 2: actual company itself, which has allowed this effective legalistic monopoly

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Speaker 2: or you know, regulatory monopoly on top of the service

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Speaker 2: that they provide, even though it's a private company, we

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Speaker 2: classify it on are a very different set of standards,

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Speaker 2: the same way that comcasts and isp internet providers do

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Speaker 2: as well the social media companies in this weird gray area.

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Speaker 2: And actually thought Justice Katanji Brown Jackson did a really

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Speaker 2: good job of digging into this about elected officials and

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Speaker 2: the elected official standard under the Florida law, which allows

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Speaker 2: anyone running for public office not to be subject specifically

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Speaker 2: to this. Really listen to the counter argument being given

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Speaker 2: by the social media company and some of the democratic implications.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen. We want to have what about

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Speaker 3: a straightforward one?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 8: I understood that one of these was no candidate can

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Speaker 8: be deplatformed. That seems pretty straightforward.

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Speaker 3: Right, right?

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Speaker 8: And so why isn't that enforcing anti discrimination principles with

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Speaker 8: no candid If somebody is a candidate for office, they

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Speaker 8: can't be deplatformed, So.

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Speaker 5: That means they can't be deplatformed no matter how many

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Speaker 5: times they violate my client's terms of use, no matter

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Speaker 5: how horrible their conduct, no matter how misrepresenting they are

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Speaker 5: in their speech, we still have to carry it. And

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Speaker 5: not just have to carry it, but under this statute,

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Speaker 5: we have to give it pride of place. And it

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Speaker 5: doesn't take much to register as a candidate in Florida,

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Speaker 5: And so this gives a license to anybody. Even if

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Speaker 5: there's you know, somebody who's only going to pull you know,

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Speaker 5: two percent in their local precinct, they can post anything

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Speaker 5: they want that can cause us to fundamentally change our

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Speaker 5: editorial policies and have to ignore our terms of use.

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Speaker 3: So that's really worth digging into.

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Speaker 9: You know.

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Speaker 2: When he says it, you're like, oh, well this seems

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Speaker 2: you know, reasonable or whatever. But I'm like, well, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's hold on a second. How do you get from

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Speaker 2: two percent to ten percent? Anyone want to tell me?

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's by being able to reach voters, which is online.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, if the state of Florida makes it so

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Speaker 2: that anybody can get on the ballot and pull a

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Speaker 2: two percent, I mean, listen, what if we all learned

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Speaker 2: from the rf Cajunior thing. It ain't that easy to

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Speaker 2: get on the ballot, okay, And so if you can

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Speaker 2: get there, then yeah, you should be in a place

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Speaker 2: where you are in a level playing field against other

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Speaker 2: candidates on the social media companies.

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Speaker 3: I don't see what's exactly wrong with that.

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Speaker 2: And when you phrase it that way, you can then

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Speaker 2: understand some of the inverse ways where this could apply.

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Speaker 2: As we all learn post January sixth, with the deplatforming

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Speaker 2: of Trump from simultaneous deplatforming and really the simultaneous destruction

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Speaker 2: of parlor, you're.

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Speaker 3: Like, whoa.

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Speaker 2: You have companies which are technically separate, effectively working in

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Speaker 2: concert from a major social pressure campaign, and the company

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Speaker 2: and even the individual at that point, the sitting president

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Speaker 2: of the United States has no genuine recourse to reach

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Speaker 2: millions and millions of people. You know, we're not talking

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Speaker 2: about a plumbing business in Ohio. Here, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: the basically singular ways which the vast majority of Americans

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Speaker 2: are interacting with presidential candidates and fundraising. And so when

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Speaker 2: you consider it in that vein, we come much more

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Speaker 2: to the common carrier status. Again, the companies don't want

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Speaker 2: this because they simply want to be able to do

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Speaker 2: what they want to do so it doesn't affect their

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Speaker 2: advertising business sets. But these are multi trillion dollar companies

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Speaker 2: get their market cap. I don't even think, honestly, it

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Speaker 2: would have that much of an effect, especially if they're

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Speaker 2: legally if they're legally required Crystal, what are they going

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Speaker 2: to do?

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Speaker 3: They're be like, hey, we have legally do it, what

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Speaker 3: are we supposed.

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Speaker 2: To do it?

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Speaker 1: That's true, that's true, And especially if they're all held

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Speaker 1: to the same standard, then it's an even playing field.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the core tension here is this question, do

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Speaker 1: citizens have an interest in the way these platforms are

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Speaker 1: run that goes above and beyond the profit motive of

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Speaker 1: the companies themselves, Because that is kind of the unspoken

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Speaker 1: part of all of this, and you just pointed to

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Speaker 1: it Soccer in terms of the advertising dollars. The reason

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Speaker 1: these companies are making the decisions they are where there's

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Speaker 1: kicking Trump off the platform or you know, moderating speech

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Speaker 1: in the ways that they do, it's all because of profit.

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Speaker 1: It's not because they.

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Speaker 4: You know, aren't interested in speech.

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Speaker 1: It's not because they have some message that they want

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Speaker 1: to convey through their algorithm the way that you know,

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Speaker 1: a newspaper wants to publish the news and cover it

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Speaker 1: in a certain way. No, they're making these decisions because

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Speaker 1: they believe that decisions that will maximize profit. So where

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Speaker 1: do we place in our order of priorities the desire

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Speaker 1: for these companies, their owners, their shareholders to maximize their

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Speaker 1: profits and the interest that citizens have in having platforms

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Speaker 1: that you know, enable free speech, that allow them to

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Speaker 1: understand candidates, and their platforms that allow candidates to be

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Speaker 1: able to run and get their message out even if

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Speaker 1: they aren't the best funded. And so you know, it's

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Speaker 1: very much my physician that this is the modern town

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Speaker 1: square that we do all very much have an interest

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Speaker 1: in what goes on here, and that in some certain ways,

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about core rights like free speech, they

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Speaker 1: do trump the prerogatives of these companies to run their

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Speaker 1: platforms in precisely the way that they think will absolutely

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Speaker 1: maximize profit. And you're right, I don't think it would

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Speaker 1: be massively harmful to them if they had to comply

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Speaker 1: with these laws. You know, one of the things that

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Speaker 1: would be implicated here is definitely with the Florida law.

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Speaker 1: I think with both the Florida and the techis law.

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Speaker 1: But because you're dealing with the way that the algorithm

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Speaker 1: promotes and suppresses content, you would also have to have

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Speaker 1: some level of transparency around how those decisions are being made,

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Speaker 1: what content is being promoted, what content is being suppressed,

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Speaker 1: And so it also give us a tool to be

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Speaker 1: able to understand the inner workings of these companies in

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Speaker 1: a way that I think would be extraordinarily beneficial just

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Speaker 1: in terms of transparency. And you know, sunlight being an

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Speaker 1: incredible disinfectant.

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Speaker 4: So there is a lot at stake here.

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Speaker 1: Again, I'm not going to pretend like the issues aren't

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Speaker 1: tricky and that there isn't an important balance to strike here,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. But to me, at its core, this tension

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Speaker 1: between a democratic society, our interest in speech, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, a core constitutional right, and the interests of

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Speaker 1: these companies to just absolutely maximize their profit.

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Speaker 4: There is a limiting principle.

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Speaker 1: There are rights as citizens of this country, trump their

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Speaker 1: rights to you know, do whatever they want on the

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Speaker 1: platform in the interest of maximizing profit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you know it's okay YouTube, the

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Speaker 2: platform where a lot of you are consuming this right now,

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Speaker 2: I don't think people understand the scale. YouTube in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three accounted for thirty one point five billion dollars

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Speaker 2: in profit. That is just ten or ten percent of

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Speaker 2: Google's overall revenue, and that thirty one billion is bigger

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Speaker 2: than Netflix. How much money Netflix made in the year

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. Ten percent of Google is roughly equivalent

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Speaker 2: to Netflix, which is one of the most predominant streaming

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Speaker 2: platforms in.

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Speaker 3: The whole world.

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Speaker 2: YouTube is YouTube is media now basically at this point,

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Speaker 2: and this is just here. I'm talking in the US context.

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Speaker 2: I've talked to you about this before, Crystal, but in

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Speaker 2: many countries like India or in South America as well,

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Speaker 2: which did not have the same analog TV, YouTube is

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Speaker 2: media because they don't have cable television in the same

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Speaker 2: way everybody skipped and started the entry point at the

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Speaker 2: mobile phone level.

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Speaker 3: And with data.

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Speaker 2: That is the major way that people consume not just news,

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Speaker 2: everything television shows. And when you think about the dramatic

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Speaker 2: cultural power that something like that has not only here

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Speaker 2: but all around the world, you start to understand why

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Speaker 2: I think common carrier status is not only justified now,

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Speaker 2: I mean it would have been justified many many years ago.

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Speaker 3: So let's put this up there on the screen from

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Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal.

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Speaker 2: I encourage people to read this if they want a

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Speaker 2: decent primer on some of the.

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Speaker 3: Things that were at play.

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Speaker 2: I would note, you know, based on the arguments, it

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Speaker 2: definitely did seem as if the majority of the conservative

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Speaker 2: justices were not on the side of the Red States

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Speaker 2: in this case, using a much more libertarian point of

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Speaker 2: view in some of their questioning.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to the next one there, please. This is

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Speaker 3: a net choice.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a write up of their specific allegations

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Speaker 2: as to why the law should not be should be

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Speaker 2: allowed to stand. It basically just comes back to an

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Speaker 2: argument is that their private companies, no matter at the scale,

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Speaker 2: they should not have to be told by the government

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Speaker 2: how and when and which way to run their business.

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Speaker 2: But I mean that even to me falls apart a

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Speaker 2: little bit, crystal, because you and I have all kinds

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Speaker 2: of regulations that we have to comply, like workers comp.

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Speaker 2: Anybody who runs a business, you have to buy a

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Speaker 2: worker's comp right, I think that's fine. Or you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're a certain size, like you have to provide

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Speaker 2: health insurance. If you're a plumbing company, you have to

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Speaker 2: have a trade certification. You can't just be going out

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Speaker 2: and doing anything. You know, there's all kinds of things that.

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Speaker 3: We're all required to do minimum right, we have to

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Speaker 3: make minimis.

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Speaker 2: There's so many different things that we all have to

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Speaker 2: do whenever we run a business.

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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily enjoy it all, but we don't have

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Speaker 3: a choice.

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Speaker 2: So the idea then, at a baseline level that you know,

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Speaker 2: this principle like you can't tell people what and what

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Speaker 2: not to do.

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Speaker 3: It's like, well, we already do that.

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Speaker 2: It's just that we're trying to apply it to a

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Speaker 2: twenty first century standard.

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Speaker 3: If anything, I think we're some twenty years late.

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Speaker 4: That's a good point. That's actually a very good point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of how this

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Speaker 1: case is going to play out, I genuinely don't know.

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Speaker 1: There was questioning that, you know, from both ends of

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Speaker 1: the ideological spectrum that seemed pretty scp of the presentation

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Speaker 1: coming from these companies.

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Speaker 4: So it left me somewhat hopeful.

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Speaker 1: That they will rule in favor of free speech and

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Speaker 1: the rights of states to regulate these companies and the

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Speaker 1: interests of citizens to you know, have the First Amendment protected.

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Speaker 1: But I genuinely don't know how it's ultimately going to

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Speaker 1: play out because you know, it's it's tricky and it's

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Speaker 1: not an ideologically clear cut case. As you said, just

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Speaker 1: thinking about the right. You know, you have these competing

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Speaker 1: ideological strands of you know, this newfound at least rhetorical

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Speaker 1: interest in free speech, and then the you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of radical libertarian strain that has been on the rise

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Speaker 1: of the Republican Party for decades at this point. So

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Speaker 1: which of those ideologies wins out here among the conservative

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Speaker 1: justices who obviously have a significant majority on the court

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Speaker 1: is really an open question.

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Speaker 2: We don't know, you know, I hope this has been

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Speaker 2: a decent enough primer just so people can really dig

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Speaker 2: into it. However this happens, we won't know for several months.

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Speaker 2: Of course, in terms of how this all plays out,

443
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: it's going to have big, big impacts, And especially consider

444
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 2: this Crystal. If it comes before the twenty twenty four election,

445
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 2: Who knows, November could be a very interesting to imagine.

446
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: If they do uphold the legislation, November could be very interesting.

447
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what's allowed to stand and what's not?

448
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, and that's an important note is right now

449
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: these laws are on hold, they haven't been implemented while

450
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 1: they go through the court system, and these justices make

451
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: a decision, so we will see how it all turns out.

452
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 9: Here you are.

453
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: Interesting analysis yesterday from Nate con in the New York

454
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: Times of why it is that Donald Trump has consistently

455
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: underperformed his polls in these primaries. Now, no one here

456
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: is saying that he's not an absolute lock for the

457
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: Republican nomination, that he isn't an incredibly forced in the

458
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 1: Republican Party, that he isn't probably at this point the

459
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 1: favorite to win the general election against Joe Biden. But

460
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: it's an interesting enough phenomenon that we wanted to spend

461
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: some time digging into it.

462
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 4: So put this up on the screen. From the New

463
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 4: York Times, Nate.

464
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: Cohen says three theories for why Trump's prime results are

465
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: not matching expectations. He's underperformed the polls in each of

466
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: the first three contests. So first let me give you

467
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: just the data. We share this with you yesterday, but

468
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: just to refresh. So in Iowa, the final five thirty

469
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: eight polling average had Trump leaving Haley by thirty four

470
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: points with the fifty three percent share. Instead of beating

471
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 1: her by thirty four points, he beat her by thirty

472
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: two points with a lower share fifty one percent.

473
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 4: Not that different, but a little bit off.

474
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: In New Hampshire, in the poles, he led by eighteen

475
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 1: points with fifty four percent. In the end he won

476
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: by eleven points with fifty four percent, so a narrower

477
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 1: margin then was predicted. In South Carolina, Trump led by

478
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: twenty eight points in the polls with sixty two percent

479
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: of the vote, and he ultimately won by twenty points

480
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: with sixty percent of the vote.

481
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 4: So again, it's not a huge.

482
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: Underperformance, but it is a consistent trend in the primary

483
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: states that we've seen thus far. So the three explanations

484
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: that Nate floats here possibilities Number one is just simply

485
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: undecided voters who you know, we're telling polsters I don't

486
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: know going into it ultimately broke for Nicki Haley. There

487
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: is some evidence that this accounts for part of it,

488
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: but it can't account for all of it because of

489
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: the piece of Trump also underperforming his vote share going in.

490
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: So again, like in South Carolina, he came in with

491
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: sixty two percent, he ultimately won with sixty percent, so

492
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: you can't just attribute that diminishment to undecided voters breaking

493
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: in Nikki Haley's direction. The second possibility is that polsters

494
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: are getting the electorate wrong, especially because on the Democratic

495
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: side there isn't much of a competition. There's been more

496
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: hype around the Republican side, so you've had a proportionally

497
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: larger number of Democrats voting in Republican primaries and independent

498
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: Democratic leaning independence voting in primaries that polsters typically pulling

499
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 1: a Republican primary. They are not calling Democratic voters at

500
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: all to see what they're going to do, because they're

501
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: just assuming, well, a Democratic voter is not going to

502
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: vote in public and primary. That assumption may be off,

503
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 1: and that may be part of the Trump underperformance here

504
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 1: in the Nikky Haley relative overperformance. The last one, which

505
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: is the most tantalizing to Democrats and Biden supporters, is

506
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: that there is actually a hidden Biden vote and that

507
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: there is, you know, some secret enthusiasm for Joe Biden

508
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: or secret antipathy towards Donald Trump that isn't being picked

509
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: up in the polls. This is sort of akin to

510
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: the like shy Trump voter theory from twenty sixteen and

511
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: what they say here I'll just read from the piece.

512
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: In this theory, the polls did well in modeling the

513
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: lecturate while undecided voters split between the candidates, but anti

514
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: Trump voters simply were not as likely to take surveys

515
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: as pro Trump voters. If this theory were true true,

516
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: then the general election polls might also be utter estimating

517
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: mister Biden by just as much as they've underestimated Miss

518
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: Haley quote. There is one reason the anti Trump turnout

519
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: might have relevance for general election polling. It's consistent with

520
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: other data showing mister Biden with the edge among the

521
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: mo those highly engaged voters.

522
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 4: This could yield a slight.

523
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: Turnout and advantage even in a general election, and may also

524
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: mean the current polls of all registered voters slightly underestimate

525
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: mister Biden compared with the narrow group of actual voters

526
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: and sagre. This is something that a number of polls

527
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: have found is right now, this far out from the

528
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: general election, polsters are looking at all registered voters, but

529
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 1: in the instances where they've narrowed that down to the

530
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: likely voters, the voters who show up consistently, election after election,

531
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: Biden is a little bit better in those polls. So

532
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: that's kind of the theory here, is that the actual

533
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 1: electorate is more likely to favor Biden, which makes some

534
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: sense given the realignment amongst the parties and so many

535
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: college educated voters who tend to be the most reliable

536
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: voters year after year, election cycle after election cycle, they're

537
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: the ones that reliably show up.

538
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 4: This used to be the advantage that Republicans have.

539
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: Now with the electorate shifting, it seems to be an

540
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: advantage that Democrats have.

541
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 4: So that's the other theory that's out there.

542
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the theories, I mean, I really don't know what

543
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 3: to say.

544
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: So back in twenty twenty, just for context, one of

545
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: the thingies that I heard all the time from the

546
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: Trump people where don't believe these polls look at how

547
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 2: people feel about the economy, and they were actually right

548
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: in terms of how close the election was, the how

549
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: I feel about the economy, and who I trust more,

550
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: Where they had Biden and Trump tied as opposed to

551
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: Biden beating Trump by like six to seven points in

552
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 2: many of these nationals. That ended up being a very

553
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 2: good approximator for the overall vote totals, even though Biden

554
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: was to be able to take it up.

555
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 3: However, what did we all learn in twenty twenty two?

556
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: We apply that exact same logic, where Biden is historically

557
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: underwater on the economy compared to every single other modern

558
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: president in a midterm, we apply the midterm lesson and

559
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 2: we say Biden would have to overperform by more than

560
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: a century, and then he almost.

561
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: Does, merely does. True.

562
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 2: And so what we learned from that is that in

563
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 2: certain instances, some social issues can trump the economy. Now,

564
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 2: of course, there are a lot of different lower propensity

565
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: voters who stayed at home, the high propensity people really

566
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: jacked it up because of all of the abortion turnout

567
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 2: that happened, lots of college educated people, the Trump cope Again,

568
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to give here as well, twenty twenty four

569
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: will be more of a normal election because lower propensity

570
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: voters who love Trump but don't necessarily give a shit

571
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: about Mitch McConnell or anybody else will be coming out

572
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: to vote. Yeah, I could see it in so many

573
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 2: different ways that in terms of my prediction, I still

574
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: come back to fifty to fifty. But I do think

575
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: it's humiliating actually for both of them. You know, considering

576
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,959
Speaker 2: considering Trump's unpopular, it should be runaway, should be so easy.

577
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 2: Considering Biden's age, he should be beaten. He should be

578
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: you know, beating him by fifty five forty five or

579
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: something like that. So the fact that it is fifty

580
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 2: to fifty, I think is not good, Yeah, for euther

581
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 2: of these people.

582
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: This was basically the case Ryan Gerdsky was making to

583
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: us when he was here about how Republicans, not Trump

584
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: specifically in the primaries, but Republicans in these special elections

585
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: why they're doing so poorly. And it's because the white, affluent,

586
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: college educated suburban vote is so heavily Democratic now and

587
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: they're show it up for all these elections and that

588
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: since you know, Republicans have chased all these you know,

589
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: weird conspiracy rabbit holes that are like disconnected from the

590
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: interests of that population and make them sort of like

591
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: and just like are like an instant turned off to

592
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: a lot of normies in that population that it has

593
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: led to disaster and abortion being you know, the primary

594
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: issue where Republicans have really put themselves out on a

595
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: fringe extremist position that is abhorrent to not just zac

596
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: group of voters, but really the overwhelming majority of Americans.

597
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 4: But he thinks that.

598
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: That is a very different story in a special election

599
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: versus a general election, because obviously you have more people

600
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: turn out in a general election, and so those people

601
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: who are the low propensity voters, maybe they're motivated, maybe

602
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: they come out. Maybe that or rases this advantage that

603
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: Democrats have had in the special elections.

604
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: I genuinely don't know.

605
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean, if I had to guess, it's probably like

606
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: a combination of all of these three things that he

607
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: floats here, all of them make some sense to me.

608
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: You know, it does seem there's some data to backup

609
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: that undecideds have been breaking towards Nikki Haley. There is

610
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: data to back up that Democrats are making up a

611
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: larger percentage of the electorate in these primaries than polsters

612
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: are really anticipating, and so there's sort of like this

613
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: built in, inaccurate electorate that they're pulling on. But I

614
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: do also think that the data surrounding the fact that

615
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: likely voters have a you know, Biden gets a slightly

616
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: more favorable outcome when you limit the universe to those

617
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: people who are most likely to actually show up in

618
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: an election. It does sort of indicate that there's something

619
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: going on there as well. Actually put up the third

620
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: element here and we can show you this sort of

621
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: underscore some of the points you're making Sagreabuk, specifically Joe

622
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: Biden's weakness. So this is the latest gallop hole. His

623
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 1: approval has now edged down to thirty eight percent. That

624
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: is three points. That is three points lower than the

625
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: last date. It's one point shy of his all time low,

626
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: and person also says accurately well below the fifty percent

627
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: threshold that has typically led to reelection for incumbents. I

628
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: took a note though, to sober of the specifics on

629
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: his approval rating on various aspects of the job, so

630
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: it actually gets the highest rating. I mean, this is

631
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: not a great number, but on the situation in Ukraine

632
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: is a forty percent approval. What was noteworthy to me

633
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: is that his handling, his unconditional support of israel Is

634
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: handling of what they describe as the situation in the

635
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: Middle East between the Israelis and Palestinians now nearly as

636
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: poorly rated as his handling of immigration, which has long been.

637
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: I mean, his handling of immigration has now long been

638
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: one of the low points in terms of public perception

639
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: of how he is doing in the presidency. So I

640
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: thought that was quite noteworthy because across the first of all,

641
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: I mean, he's dramatically at odds with the Democratic base

642
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: in terms of what they want to see. When you've

643
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: got fifty percent of Democrats saying this is a genocide,

644
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: you are very much.

645
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 4: At odds, but you have a majority. There's a pull

646
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 4: that just came out.

647
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: There's a majority of all religious groups who support a

648
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: cease fire, and then you have people on the other

649
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: extreme who think that, oh, actually we should be doing

650
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: even more somehow for Israel. I don't even know how

651
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: that's possible. But you do have this rhetoric on the

652
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: right as well of like, oh, he's not doing enough

653
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: to back Israel, and even this little hand ring behind

654
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: the scenes is like he shouldn't be doing that. He

655
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: should just be saying, go and kill the bad guys.

656
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: So that has become a major major problem for him

657
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: in terms of facing reelection.

658
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it is certainly true. You can definitely

659
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: look at that.

660
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: I would combine the economic number immigration being very low.

661
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 3: He basically is just being.

662
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: Hit at all sides from everybody, which is very, very problematic.

663
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: At the same time, an interesting situation developing in Ukraine

664
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: and in Russia. The head of Ukrainian Intelligence making some

665
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: very eyebrow raising remarks, let's put this up there on

666
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: the screen from the Kiev Post. The head of Ukraine

667
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: Intelligence believes that Navalny Alexi Navalny, the Russian dissident who

668
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: died in Russian prison quote died of a detached blood clot.

669
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: Says that the cause of death.

670
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: Actually aligns with the initial assertion that was made by

671
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: the Kremlin. Now this has sparked a lot of it

672
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: discussion because it's like, well, is this confirmation that he.

673
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: Did die of natural causes?

674
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: However, that one countervailing piece of evidence which definitely needs

675
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: to be discussed here is put this up there please,

676
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: is according to Navalny and his or Navalney's organization, after

677
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: his death, there was actually a prisoner swap proposal that

678
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: was being discussed which would have allowed for the swap

679
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: of Navalny in exchange and likely Evan Gersovich and possibly

680
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: even another American who is in custody to be traded

681
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: for an alleged Russian hit man who is being held

682
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: in a German prison. This is somebody who Putin has

683
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: personally spoke about before the question for a while, exactly

684
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 2: with the Tucker Carlson. So the reason why, I don't know.

685
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: We've read it two ways, and I read it one way,

686
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: which is, well, maybe he did die of natural causes,

687
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: because why would you kill him if he was going

688
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: to be a valuable part of the prisoner swap. The

689
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: other is, well, they killed him so they don't have

690
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: to swap him and have to deal with him on

691
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: the outside.

692
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: Both seem equally and very plausible.

693
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: The other thing that I come back to is even

694
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: if he did technically die of natural causes, if you

695
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: guys saw the video, he looked terrible the day before

696
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: he died. I mean he's very obvious and being I mean,

697
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: being in prison, you know, newsplash not good for your health.

698
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: So I don't know. That's kind of my summary of

699
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: the situation.

700
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: It's sort of like if Julian Assange died in prison

701
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: right now of quote unquote natural causes, It's like, well,

702
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: his health is in such poor condition because because of

703
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: the captivity, because of the imprisonment because of the years

704
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: of effectively like psychological and physical torture that he has endured.

705
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: So then if you know, even if someone didn't slip

706
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: poison into his tea, he still was really murdered by

707
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: the state. You know, he still did not, in my opinion,

708
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: die of natural causes in the same way that some

709
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: one who was free and living their life quote unquote

710
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: dies of natural causes. That death is still on the

711
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 1: hands of the United States government and you know, the

712
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: UK government at this point as well, who have been

713
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: imprisoning him for years at this point, so I sort

714
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: of view it in the same way. With regard to

715
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian report, there's a few things to put out

716
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: here that because I was talking to our friend Diegor

717
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: about all of this, and he, for what it's worth,

718
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: yeaher was very convinced that Putin actually murdered this guy. Now,

719
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: he doesn't have any special knowledge, he's just reading based

720
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: on his you know, insight into Russian politics and specifically

721
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: how happy Putin seemed after Navaldey was dead. But he said,

722
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: keep in mind, the Ukrainians also hated Navalny, which may

723
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: be sort of confusing to you, but they wanted him

724
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: to be very explicitly pro Ukrainian, and he didn't follow

725
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: along with the messaging and the position they wanted him

726
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: to take.

727
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 4: So they didn't like navalne either.

728
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: And there's also a question of like how they would

729
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: have this special knowledge into whether it was a blood

730
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: clot or whether it was something else. So, as I said, listen,

731
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: in terms of the specifics of how he died, why

732
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: at this moment, I do think it's compelling what the

733
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: Navalney team is putting out there. Their theory is effectively

734
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: they said. Putin was clearly told the only way to

735
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: get Krasikov, that's the dude he talked about in the

736
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson in an interview, who he clearly wants back is

737
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: to exchange him for Navalny. Putin decided, since they're willing

738
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: to offer Krasikov in principle, then I just need to

739
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: get rid of that bargaining chip then offer someone else

740
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: when the time comes. So that would be the theory

741
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: on the side of it was Putin. It wasn't just

742
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, him dying from being in captivity, but it was,

743
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, an explicit intentional murder.

744
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 4: Do we know will we ever really know?

745
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: No.

746
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: But again to me, the top line of however we

747
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: feel about him, where a political prisoners should not First

748
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: of all, they shouldn't be political prisoners. Second of all,

749
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: they should't be out an imhorrent conditions. Third of all,

750
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: they certainly shouldn't be murdered. No matter how you feel

751
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: about them, whether you grew with their politics or not,

752
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: his death is on the hands of Vladimir Putin. That

753
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: to me is very clear yet.

754
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: And the question now about the prisoner swap kind of interesting.

755
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: Some news that just broke out of the Financial Times

756
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: that have in front of me. The Germany appetite apparently

757
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: for the deal with the Kremlin is now much lower,

758
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: as you said, because Putin had assumed that they could

759
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: swap him in principle, then all he had to do

760
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: was to have some sort of get rid of navalney

761
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: and they can offer up as Evan Gersovich and possibly

762
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 2: this new American citizen dual American citizen who's in prison

763
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: in Russia. But it appears now that the Germans are

764
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: cooling on their any sort of prisoner swap. I mean,

765
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: one of the reasons this is the bad news is look,

766
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 2: Evan has now been in prison now for almost what

767
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: two three hundred days. I mean, he's nearing a year

768
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: in captivity. Seems fine, you know the images that are

769
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: coming out of Moscow.

770
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 3: He appears healthy.

771
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 2: But you know that it's not good, as we learn

772
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 2: here with Nivolney, to be put in prison for quite

773
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: a long time. So I would hope certainly that even

774
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 2: if the you know, yes, I think this is abhorrent

775
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: and all that, but we need to get our man

776
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: out of there as soon as possible. And you know,

777
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: in exchange or Russian hitman doesn't seem like.

778
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 3: Too bad of a deal.

779
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 9: So be it.

780
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 2: All right, Let's move on to the next part here. Oh,

781
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 2: this was some major news that happened just yesterday, combines

782
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: with some even worse major news. I'll start with the

783
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: major headline coming overnight from our allies in France. Let's

784
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 2: go ahead and put this up there on the screen.

785
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 2: In terms of nobody asking for this and yet being

786
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: floated anyway, President Emmanuel Macrone, at a major meeting of

787
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: the European powers to mark the two year anniversary of

788
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: Ukraine invasion, now is floating the idea of Western troops

789
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 2: on the ground.

790
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: He says, quote, there is.

791
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: No consensus today to send in an official endorsed manner

792
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: of troops on the ground, but in terms of dynamics,

793
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 2: nothing can be ruled out. This is absolutely extraordinary news

794
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: to me, news to a lot of people in NATO,

795
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: very quickly crystal overnight, the Kremlin reacting saying that if

796
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: this is in fact true, then war with the United

797
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: States with NATO is quote inevitable.

798
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: Here's what they say. Quote.

799
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: In that case, it wouldn't be likely inevitable. That is

800
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: how we assess it. That is, according to the official

801
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: spokesperson for the Kremlin, so Macron basically floating an entire

802
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: war with the NATO alliance. I do find it interesting

803
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 2: that immediately the Germans actually smacked him down.

804
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: Olaf Shaw's a.

805
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: Chancellor of Germany, immediately putting out a tweet in German

806
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: saying just so we're clear, there will be no Western

807
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: troops or NATO troops that are being sent into the country.

808
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: But just goes to show, you know, the.

809
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,959
Speaker 2: Brainworm is there even with reality on the ground. They're like, well,

810
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: Ukraine's losing, America won't ship them anymore, ammo. We literally

811
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: don't have the capacity to send AMMO, so what's left.

812
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 3: It was inevitable.

813
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: I didn't think they were stupid enough to float it though,

814
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: especially somebody in a democratic country. But if anything, I'm

815
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: happy about it. Please run on it. Put it to

816
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: the American people. Should we send Western troops to save

817
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: Ukraine on the battlefield?

818
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: I think I know what that answer would be.

819
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: NATO Chief Stoltenberg came out to also rebuff Macron's comments.

820
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 4: Although I think his phrasing is very interesting.

821
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: He says there are no plans, yes exactly, for NATO

822
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: combat troops on the ground in Ukraine. But Macron didn't

823
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: say there were plans. He said that this is something

824
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: that needs to be kept on the table and you know,

825
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 1: a theory that needs to be discussed. He didn't say

826
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: that there are active plans to do it. And listen,

827
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: it makes some logical sense if you are in the

828
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, extreme pro Ukraine camp, where you genuinely believe

829
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: that Russia intends, you know, next is going to be

830
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: Poland on their list and they're gonna, you know, try

831
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: to have this incredibly expansionist imperial project and that it's

832
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: going to force the native NATO conflict down the line.

833
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 4: Anyway, So if.

834
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: You're looking at the at the the situation, the battle

835
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: situation in Ukraine, and you realize like they don't have

836
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: a chance to win unless you do have something like

837
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: NATO and US and French boots on the ground in

838
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: the country, that's how you end up saying like this.

839
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: I think it's an extraordinary I think it's extraordinarily revealing

840
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: about how dire the Ukrainian situation actually is right now

841
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: and how out of ideas they are for changing that

842
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: save for, you know, something that would be incredibly not

843
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: just unpopular, but insane, foolish, reckless, et cetera, as is

844
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: being floated here.

845
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: What's really fascinating to me is that if you read

846
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: so I talked previously about how Germany was their parliament.

847
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: You know, they have a democratic system over there, Crystal

848
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: where major things actually get floated to the legislature and

849
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: they get to vote and decide how and whether they

850
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: should send certain types of cruise missiles.

851
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 3: This really interesting concept which maybe want to try it

852
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 3: well in their parliament.

853
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 2: They overwhelmingly voted not to send Taurus cruise mass missiles

854
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 2: to Ukraine, and the German chancellor gave a very good

855
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 2: justification for this, he says, Listen, these are longer rage missiles.

856
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: They could use them to strike Russia. But more importantly,

857
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian troops are too incompetent and not well trained enough,

858
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 2: and to actually employ these on the battlefield would require

859
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: German troops on the ground to operate these cruise missile systems. Thus,

860
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: I am not putting Germany in a place where we're

861
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 2: going to become an active combatant, he says, quote, we

862
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: will not become a party to the war. I have

863
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: to come back to the strategic logic. The entire point

864
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: of our supposed you know, why we got a back

865
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 2: Ukraine to the hill, is that if we don't stop

866
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 2: putin here, then he's going to continue into NATO countries.

867
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: Then why are the major powers in NATO, like Germany,

868
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 2: the largest economy on the continent, largest economy out of

869
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 2: in Britain in the NATO alliance, Why are they so

870
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: cautious and they're not shipping everything they've got because they

871
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: don't believe it. It's one of those where at this

872
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: point the Cranians have been roughly hung out to dry.

873
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 3: They've been screwed.

874
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 2: I think you know from day one, they're like dangled here.

875
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: They're basically being used as Pond's vast majority of the

876
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: prime age, courageous males. They're all dead and or amputated now.

877
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: And so now I think we're really starting to get

878
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: a taste of what this war is really all about.

879
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: You see it being pitched here in Washington as like, hey, guys,

880
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: the money's not being sent to Ukraine. It's being sent

881
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 2: our defense contractors. So it's good for the economy.

882
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: Wait what multiple officials have set that up. Yeah, Tory

883
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 1: Newlan came out. We just got to keep in mind

884
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: this money that we're sent to kr this is really

885
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: going to our defensive destauma that is so sick.

886
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 4: I can't even believe it. I can't even believe it.

887
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: You know, there was a an executive from one of

888
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: those companies that went to speak to college students in Texas.

889
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: Uh huh, and they're getting all these questions about like,

890
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, how much if I go to work at

891
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: your company, you know, will I get to directly be

892
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: involved in making the bombs to kill Palestinian children?

893
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 4: And he was like, uh, no idea how to do it.

894
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: But the sickness of thinking that that's a reason to

895
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: go to war. It's really I mean, that's a mask

896
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: off moment, because that is a big part of the

897
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: reason why we end up in these endless conflicts, because

898
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: there are people that are making a buck off, and

899
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: not just making a buck they are filthy rich and

900
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: they all live right around here.

901
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 4: By the way.

902
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: There's a reason why McClain Virginia is one of the

903
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: wealthiest zip codes in the entire fricking country. It's because

904
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: of these goals and that ideology of like, wow, war

905
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: is good for the economy.

906
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 4: Sick.

907
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: It is absolutely sick that they would make that argument,

908
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: and it's extraordinarily revealing that they feel like that's the

909
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: best that they can do at this point in terms

910
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: of selling this for the American people. We're talking about

911
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: this before, Sager, but I do think it is worth noting.

912
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: You know, now that you have the Israel war on Palestine,

913
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian cause, it really has taken a massive hit

914
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: because all of the aspirational ideological life language about oh,

915
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: it's a fight for democracy and we're so principled and

916
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: human rights and we're against these Russian war crimes and whatever, like,

917
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: they can't even talk like that anymore.

918
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 4: No, they don't even talk like that anymore.

919
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: And actually, well John Stewart made this very point in

920
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: some of his dialogue and his show last night. We'll

921
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: show you a little bit of in another segment. But

922
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, they can't even say those words because the

923
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: hypocrisy is so blatant and so shameful that even these

924
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: basically shameless people can't bring themselves to, you know, say

925
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: the words international rules based order when we're they're saying,

926
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 1: you know, basically, we don't care about what the ICJ

927
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: has to say, and we're going to argue on Israel's

928
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: behalf that the occupation, the settlements aren't really illegal, or

929
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: at least they're not you know, you're not the proper

930
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: venue to be dealing with it. We can't really say

931
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: what war crimes are when it comes to Israel. All

932
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 1: of that has gone out the window. So now they're

933
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 1: just left with like, well, it's good for the weapons

934
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: makers to keep shipping these weapons and making more money.

935
00:44:59,200 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 4: Insanity.

936
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: So Russia annexing Eastern Ukraine illegal Israel settlements.

937
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 3: It's complicated.

938
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you know, they both got a historical claim, right,

939
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: that's the defense that all of these people, I this

940
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: sanctimony that we have been subjected to over the last

941
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: two years. It has been one of the great pleasures

942
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 2: to watch it completely unwined, just to make it all

943
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 2: clear though, by the way, in terms of NATO, just

944
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: because Germany may be acting well in this one instance,

945
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 2: there has been a major development which we were miss

946
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: if we didn't go into put it up there on

947
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: the screen.

948
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: Please.

949
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: Officially, yesterday, the Hungarian Parliament voted for Stockholm, Sweden to

950
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: join the NATO Alliance, clearing the way for all thirty

951
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: two countries for allowed to its ascension. This is effectively

952
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: very noteworthy because Sweden, I don't think a lot of

953
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: people understand this, has had an official policy of neutrality

954
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 2: for two hundred years. They were actually neutral in the

955
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: Second World War. A lot of US airmen who had

956
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: damaged aircraft actually went and landed in Sweden and were

957
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 2: interred there, apparently at a good time whenever they were there.

958
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: But my point just being like, even when the Nazis

959
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: were around and the Russians the Cold War.

960
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 3: They had an official policy of neutrality.

961
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: You really want to tell me that the things have

962
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: changed so much for them to abandon it now. Listen,

963
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: it's their right, but it's also our right not to

964
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: allow them in. We've decided to Finland and Sweden adding

965
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: a huge border with Russia. We actually have a map

966
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: that we can show everybody here. This is extraordinary. I mean,

967
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: look at this new map of NATO. But if we

968
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: go to the next one, guys, please, I want everybody

969
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: to understand just how much frontage has now been added

970
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: for the overall NATO border. Look at that border crystal

971
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: between Finland and Russia. We are talking about some eight

972
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 2: hundred miles of new territory that basically the United States

973
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: is now set to defend, and of which we will

974
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 2: go to nuclear war over Finland, a country which has

975
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: literally been at war with Russia and invaded by them previously.

976
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: The theory being that we should extend it all the

977
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: way over there to make sure that nothing happens. And

978
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: lo and behold what has the effective result? Has Russia,

979
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: you know, invaded Finland and.

980
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 3: A that No, But guess what. They haven't backed down.

981
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: They've increased defense spending historic levels, not just to fund Ukraine,

982
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 2: They've actually remilitarized their border with Finland, and both Finland

983
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 2: and Sweden now, who were both under the two percent

984
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: defense threshold, are doing everything in their power to could

985
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 2: you know, try and meet to two percent, which, look,

986
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: I guess if they're going to be the Alliance at

987
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: least I support that. But it's one of those where

988
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: the circular logic of the war, it's like we've got

989
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: to expand NATO to defend NATO. We got to defend

990
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: Ukraine to defend NATO. It just it never ends. All

991
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: it leads to is more of US entrenchment on the continent,

992
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: where nobody ever asked why it makes any strategic sense. Like, sorry, Finland,

993
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: you know you guys have been invaded before. Are you

994
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 2: really that critical to the US economy?

995
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. You people literally fought with the Nazis

996
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 3: also in World War Two. Like we have to really.

997
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: Think about what we're extending ourselves for. So I've been

998
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 2: saying this rant for a while.

999
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 3: Buck. Yeah, it's one of those where you.

1000
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: Know, you can't just let it pass because it's one

1001
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: of those it's just how just how North Macedonia got

1002
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 2: into the Alliance, just how Montenegro. Everybody just signs these

1003
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: people up as if there's no consequence to it. And

1004
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 2: then one day there really might be. And look at

1005
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 2: that border and tell me that you don't think nothing's

1006
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: gonna happen.

1007
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and remember those expansions happened under the supposedly anti

1008
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: natas on the Trump So keep that in mind when

1009
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: you see this l freaka, Oh my god, he's going

1010
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: to break up the NATO alliance really because he did

1011
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: the exact opposite last time he was in office, you know,

1012
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: with regard to Finland the Russians. The Kremlin spokesman Pescavi

1013
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: told the BBC, Russia be watching closely how NATO uses

1014
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: the finished territory quote in terms of basing weapon systems

1015
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: and infrastructure there, which will be right up close to

1016
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: our borders, potentially threatening US. Based on that, measures will

1017
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: be taken. So, as far as I can tell, the

1018
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: entire logic logic of admitting Finland into NATO is basically like, oh,

1019
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: the Russians aren't.

1020
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 3: Going to like this, right, That's right?

1021
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: So is that what our forum policy is based around?

1022
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: Like owning the Russians? Because what you're doing is you're

1023
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: creating more potential vectors of escalation, more potential vectors of conflict,

1024
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: and you're calling that improved security, not to mention, I

1025
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: mean the discussion that you're having here about Hey, American people,

1026
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: like are you ready to send your sons and daughters

1027
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: to you know, die for Finland or die for North

1028
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: Macedonia or whatever. That's never discussed in the US press,

1029
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: I mean really never discussed in the US space. Yeah,

1030
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: and maybe the American people say, yeah, but we believe

1031
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: in that, you know, we think this is good for

1032
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 1: us whatever. But the very fact that the debate doesn't

1033
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: even happen, you know, it's just never spelled out what

1034
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: the implications actually are of this expansion. It's effectively taken

1035
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: as a given. It's accepted as just all upside, no downside,

1036
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: as a great way to like own putin, you know,

1037
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: put him in his place and show him that we're

1038
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: going to do the thing he doesn't want us to do,

1039
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: and for what ultimately, So that's the other tragedy here

1040
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: is just and this has been the case throughout the

1041
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: entire Ukraine War, is there's only ever been one side

1042
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: and one narrative presented. None of the potential follow on

1043
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: costs and consequences have ever been laid out. And that's

1044
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: how you end up in a situation like we are

1045
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: right now and like the Ukrainians are right now. That

1046
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: is horrible, absolutely horrible for everyone involved. With no end

1047
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: in sight and no plan for how we're going to

1048
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: ever resolve this conflict, that's how you end up there.

1049
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: So it is, it is, you know, it is a

1050
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: troubling dynamic. There's just no doubt about it.

1051
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: It's just one of those where you know, look, I

1052
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: can think about it in terms of economic terms. You

1053
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 2: know how much trade we do with Finland eleven billion dollars,

1054
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 2: Like you want to go to nuclear war over eleven

1055
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: billion dollars.

1056
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 3: Not everything is Munich, you know, Not everything is World

1057
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: War Two in the fall of France. It's the brain.

1058
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 2: It's the infection of the brain that you know. You

1059
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 2: can double NATO's border with Russia and nobody talks about it,

1060
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: and think about it in terms also not just you know,

1061
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 2: the nukes, because obviously we would get to there. Let's

1062
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 2: say it doesn't go nuclear and it's merely conventional. That means,

1063
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: just like in World War Two, there're gonna be guys

1064
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 2: from Kansas or wherever deployed up to the Arctic Circle

1065
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 2: to defend the territorial integrity of the Finnish Russo border. Sorry,

1066
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: I don't think it's worth it. I think most people

1067
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 2: would agree with me if you actually put it up

1068
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: for a vote. But that's why it all just sneaks

1069
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: in and the next thing you know, boom, you get

1070
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: involved in this and you never even had a say

1071
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: in the first place.

1072
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 3: Enough of the soapbox, I think, Crystal, we've got Israel.

1073
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: We've got things to soapboxing regard to Israel as well.

1074
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: Are great President of the United States, Joseph Biden. He

1075
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: went on seth Myer's last night. Before he did though,

1076
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: he decided they decided to go get ice cream at

1077
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: thirty Walk, as you do, and it's just a bizarre

1078
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 1: scene unfolding.

1079
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 4: Gets asked about Israel and makes.

1080
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: Some actually confidential news about his expectations of this temporary ceasefire.

1081
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 4: Let's just watch how this all unfolded.

1082
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 10: When you think that will start, well, I hope by

1083
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 10: the beginning of the weekend, I mean the end of

1084
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 10: the weekend at least, my not security visor tells me

1085
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 10: that we're close. We're close, not done yet, and my

1086
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 10: hope is by next Monday we'll have.

1087
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, there's just something optically about

1088
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: talking about something so extraordinary, extraordinarily serious where thousands, if

1089
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: not millions of lives are on the line while you're

1090
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: casually eating an ice cream cone with Seth Myers. That

1091
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: it's just it just is very discordant. I guess would

1092
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: be the right word there. So in an attempt to

1093
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: I guess, silence the critics and show he's really really

1094
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: up to the job, et cetera, he decided to do

1095
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: this softball interview with Seth Myers on late I won't

1096
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: sit for, you know, a journalist at a real newspaper

1097
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: or anything that might be even remotely contentious, like what

1098
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: would have probably also been a softball interview in front

1099
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: of the super Bowl. But he'll go on late night

1100
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: television and you'll banter with Seth Myers. Here he did

1101
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 1: address a bit of his Israel policy.

1102
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to.

1103
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 2: Someha what you have to say, because again, we see

1104
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: this horrible every day, we see this horrible images of Gaza,

1105
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: and is there a path forward?

1106
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 3: Is there a safe future for the people who live there?

1107
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 7: There is a path forward with difficulty, But here's the

1108
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 7: path forward. Look, first of all, there are the hostages

1109
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 7: being held must be released, and then we've got at

1110
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 7: least some principal agreement. There will be a ceasefire well

1111
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 7: that takes place. Ramadan's coming up, and there's been an

1112
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 7: agreement by the Israelis that they would not engage in

1113
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 7: activities during Ramadan as well, in order to give us

1114
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 7: time to get all the hostages out. That gives us

1115
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 7: time to begin to move in directions that a lot

1116
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 7: of Arab countries are prepared to move in. For example,

1117
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 7: Saudi Arabia is ready to recognize Israel, Jordan, is Egypt,

1118
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 7: There's six other states. I've been working with Cutter, and

1119
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 7: the bottom line is that I'm not I think the

1120
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 7: only way Israel ultimately survives, and I make no bones

1121
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 7: about it. I get criticized for having said a long

1122
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 7: time ago, you need not be a Jew to be

1123
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 7: a Zionist. I'm a Zionist where they know Israel, there's

1124
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 7: not a Jew in the world to be safe. But

1125
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 7: here's the deal. They also have to take advantage of

1126
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 7: an opportunity to have peace and security for Israelis and

1127
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 7: Palestinians who are being used as pawns by Hamas. Israel

1128
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 7: has slowed down the attacks in Rafa. They have to,

1129
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 7: and they've made a commitment to me they're going to

1130
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 7: see to it that there's ability to evacuate significant portions

1131
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 7: of Rafa before they go and take out the remainder

1132
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 7: of Hamas.

1133
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 3: But it's a process.

1134
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 7: And look, Israel has had the overwhelming support of the

1135
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 7: vast majority of nations. If it keeps this up without

1136
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 7: this incredibly conservative government they have and Ben Gaverer and

1137
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 7: others the most I've known, every major foreign policy leader

1138
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 7: in Israel since go to Mayir, they're going to lose

1139
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 7: support from around the world and that is not an

1140
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 7: Israel's interest.

1141
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: So there's a lot there actually to say Sager first

1142
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: of all, on that last piece, you know, he wants

1143
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: to frame the problem with Israel as just being specific

1144
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: to these few extremists like BeneVir, just like with his

1145
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: settler policy. I'm going to sanction these four violent settlers,

1146
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: as if the problem with the settlements is just this

1147
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: fringe violent group, not the entire policy of settlements which

1148
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: has been ongoing since the Goldemeyer days. He wants to

1149
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: paint and is like, oh, it's just the problem is

1150
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 1: just this government which obviously is not the case, especially

1151
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: when you look at the fact that you know, all

1152
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: of the coalition members of the war Cabinet, even the

1153
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: ones that were quote unquote moderate, you know, people like

1154
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: President Isaac Hertzog, who's out there saying there's no uninvolved civilians.

1155
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 4: Like the overwhelming majority.

1156
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: Of Israeli society, regardless of where they situate themselves on

1157
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: the domestic political spectrum, is on board with this, you know,

1158
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: outrageous assault on the Gaza strip. So I think it

1159
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: is very disingenuous and really gas lighty to try to

1160
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: pin this just on Oh, it's just Ben Gavier. It

1161
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: is just these few extremists, that's the real problem here.

1162
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 4: That's number one. Number two.

1163
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: On Rafa, I noticed the language has shifted from originally

1164
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: the Biden administration was really warning net Yahoo against going

1165
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: into Rafa at all. Now he's saying, oh, I got

1166
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: this promise from bb that he's going to evacuate the

1167
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: civilians because you know, they've done such a great job

1168
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: of protecting civilians thus far. So I noted that shift

1169
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: in language, which we've seen some of before. The other thing, Sager,

1170
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: I find so disgusting this language about how if there

1171
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:46,760
Speaker 1: wasn't an.

1172
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 4: Israel, there wouldn't be a Jew in the world who

1173
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 4: was safe.

1174
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 1: We have a huge Jewish diaspora here, and the idea

1175
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: that you are president of the United States and you

1176
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: don't think you can keep your own people safe is

1177
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: a real admission. That is, you know, that is sort

1178
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: of scary and disgusting all and pathetic all at once.

1179
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: But the other thing is here, in terms of Jewish secure,

1180
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: I would say that there is no country on the

1181
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: planet that is making Jews less secure than Israel. I

1182
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: think of those comments we played the other day of that,

1183
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: like you know, women's equality or whatever minister that they

1184
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: have in Israel who said she wants she is proud

1185
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: of the ruins of Gaza. She wants the children and

1186
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: the grandchildren of these Palestinians to know not what Israel did,

1187
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: what the Jews did to them. There is no country

1188
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: in the world that is filmenting more likely future extremism

1189
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: and radicalism against Jewish people than israelis right now. So

1190
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: on every level, I found those comments so obnoxious, abhorrent,

1191
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: disingenuous and just wrong that I can't even begin to

1192
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: describe it.

1193
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 2: But that line, too, has always bothered me, and it's

1194
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 2: like a typical Bidenism, So I just have it in

1195
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 2: front of me. There are seven point six million Jews

1196
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 2: in the United States who are living peacefully, freely as

1197
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: all other American citizens. There's only nine point three million

1198
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 2: people who live inside Israel. And if I have my

1199
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: math right, what is it? Around twenty percent of those

1200
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: are Arab.

1201
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:14,919
Speaker 3: So what do we got.

1202
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 2: We have probably the same number of Jews who live

1203
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 2: in the US men who live in the State of Israel.

1204
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 2: So if Israel didn't exist, then the Jews in America

1205
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 2: wouldn't be safe. There have been Jews in this country

1206
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 2: since the Civil War. You know, there are people who

1207
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 2: Jews who fought on both sides whenever they didn't exist.

1208
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: They were proud patriots and they have a deep tie

1209
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: to our American history and they had nothing to do

1210
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 2: with the State of Israel. Just so everybody knows. But

1211
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 2: this is the problem. You know, the Israelis want it

1212
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 2: that both ways too. They have it so that you

1213
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 2: have a conflation of Judaism and of their own sovereignty,

1214
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: which basically allows Israel not to be treated as a

1215
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 2: nation state like any other through which there are pluses

1216
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 2: and minuses. They imbue themselves with the religious sense. And

1217
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 2: then same thing here is that you conflate anti Zionism

1218
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 2: quote unquote with anti semit and with Jewish safety here

1219
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: in America. Now, the Jews themselves want to make the decision,

1220
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 2: that's your right as an American. But for an Irish

1221
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 2: Catholic president to say that, I think it's anti Semitic.

1222
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,959
Speaker 2: I do because again it's a conflation of a nation

1223
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 2: statehood with the identity as a US citizen.

1224
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 3: I would say the same thing about India.

1225
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 2: You know, India's sovereignty or whatever has no place on

1226
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 2: my rights as or my conception or my identity as

1227
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 2: an American citizen. It happens to be a place where

1228
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 2: my family is from. There are a lot of countries

1229
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 2: that don't exist anymore. It'si Lesia or whatever. It's not

1230
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 2: a country but a region that people emigrated from to

1231
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 2: the US. But they don't think of their territorially integrity

1232
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 2: of that place. Let's say the Balkans Yugoslavia as conflating

1233
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 2: with their own identity and safety here in America. And

1234
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 2: that's the exact problem where a lot of domestic Jews

1235
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: want to have it both ways. But now the president

1236
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 2: wants to have it both ways too. I think that's

1237
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:57,439
Speaker 2: really wrong.

1238
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: So I think part of this little, you know, late

1239
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: night appearance and whatever also has to do with the

1240
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: fact that the primary in Michigan is today. I think

1241
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: that the Biden campaign people have stopped diluting themselves about

1242
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: the idea that a lot of these people worried about

1243
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: the you know, our complicity and genocide and the Gaza.

1244
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 4: They'll get over it. They'll get over it, they'll move on.

1245
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: Don't worry. That's just this fringe group. They're really not

1246
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: that big a deal. I actually saw a poll that

1247
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: from yesterday from Emerson of the Michigan Democratic primary electorate

1248
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: that had roughly ten percent of voters planning to vote uncommitted,

1249
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: which pretty extraordinary, and almost thirty percent of young voters

1250
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: between eighteen and twenty nine planning to vote uncommitted. I mean,

1251
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: this is like an ad hoc movement that just sprung up,

1252
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: that has next no money behind it, etc. And yet

1253
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: you have enough sentiment that it could potentially today take

1254
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: a significant chunk of the vote.

1255
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 4: So I think part of the why.

1256
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: He's out there, you know, doing his little ice cream

1257
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: ceasefire bit is to try to persuade people that, oh,

1258
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in piece, Oh I'm really standing up

1259
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: to the Nat Yahoo government, etc.

1260
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 4: Etc. When it's going to take a lot more than that.

1261
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: At this point, you're going to have to actually change policy,

1262
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: not just pretend to be interested in peace for one

1263
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: late night appearance.

1264
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 4: In a sign of how concerned.

1265
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: They are about what the vote total will be in

1266
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: Michigan for uncommitted, they sent Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who was

1267
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: way more popular in the state than Joe Biden by

1268
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: the way, out to try to get the vote out,

1269
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: to try to convince the Democratic faithful that they needed

1270
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: to go, they needed to show up, they needed to

1271
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: vote for Joe Biden. Let's take a listen to how

1272
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: she is making the case.

1273
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 11: Well, I'm not sure what we're going to stand on Tuesday.

1274
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 11: To tell you the truth, I can tell you this

1275
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 11: that Michigan has been so fortunate to be the home

1276
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:48,919
Speaker 11: of a robust Arab Muslim Palestinian community.

1277
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 3: And a robust Jewish community.

1278
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 11: We've lived in harmony as neighbors for decades, and there's

1279
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 11: a lot of pain all across all of these communities

1280
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 11: because of what's happening halfway around the world. This is,

1281
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 11: I think a very high stakes moment. I am encouraging

1282
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 11: people to cast an affirmative vote for President Biden. I

1283
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 11: understand the pain that people are feeling, and I'll continue

1284
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 11: to work to build bridges with folks in all of

1285
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 11: these communities because they're all important to me, They're all

1286
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 11: important to Michigan, and I know they're all important to

1287
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 11: President Biden as well. Sounds like you're preparing for a

1288
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 11: sizable portion of the vote being uncommitted and sending that

1289
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 11: protest message to President Biden.

1290
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 3: You know, Dana, I'm just not sure what to expect.

1291
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 4: Just not sure what to expect. I mean, that's very interesting.

1292
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: So she doesn't want to set any expectations whatsoever for

1293
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: how it's going to come out. I mean, you can imagine,

1294
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: first of all, very clear, she's a much better politician

1295
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: than Joe Biden is. You know, she went on her

1296
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: way picked to vice president.

1297
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 3: She'd be way.

1298
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 4: Better than Tom Lays.

1299
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1300
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in any case, you can see

1301
01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: she's going out of her way to try to express

1302
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: her sympathy for Arab American populations. In the state, which

1303
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: she knows is a significant constituency in Michigan and very

1304
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: important to her electorally, not to mention Joe Biden.

1305
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 4: So you know, she's really trying.

1306
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: To express this sympathy while fully supporting the guy who

1307
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: was doing all the terrible things that are causing them

1308
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: so much pain and grief and causing them to turn

1309
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: away from the Democratic Party. But I found it extraordinary

1310
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: both that they felt the need to send her out

1311
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 1: to a variety of cable news shows, and I also

1312
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: found it quite extraordinary that she would not commit to

1313
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 1: what percent of the vote she thought Uncommitted would get.

1314
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: She did not want to set any sort of expectations

1315
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: so that they can spin after the fact. You know,

1316
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: if Uncommitted does get ten percent of the vote, oh,

1317
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: that's not that much, that's not that significant. In reality,

1318
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: that would be I think quite significant in the context of,

1319
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, voting for literally Uncommitted over the guy who

1320
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 1: was president right now on this sort of like ad

1321
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: hoc shoestring effort that sprung up. Is uh, it's it's interesting.

1322
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: It's interesting for a protest vote. We'll see what happens.

1323
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 2: No, I think they're I think they're worried about it

1324
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: a crystal, I really do, and because there's no other

1325
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 2: reason to have that. Also, I'm not sure if you

1326
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: saw Beto what he had. He had some sort of

1327
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 2: like maya culpa. He put out a statement He's like, actually,

1328
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 2: I do support President Biden.

1329
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 3: Just to be clear, my opinion of.

1330
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 4: Beato is back to what it used to be. That

1331
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 4: also shows their concern.

1332
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 1: They couldn't even let you know, the great influencer Beto

1333
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: O'Rourke to have them say on this. They had to

1334
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: completely log it down. What a what a weakling?

1335
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 4: That's so lame. I agreed, immediately caved.

1336
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: We also wanted to show you Nancy Pelosi was subject

1337
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: to something she's not used to, which was an actually

1338
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 1: tough interview, and there was a number of extraordinary moments,

1339
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: but one in particular where she's both exposed as completely

1340
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: ignorant and her attempted support for the Biden policy just

1341
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: crumbles in real time.

1342
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to how this went down.

1343
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 9: We have a.

1344
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 13: I don't want to call mister because I've lost so

1345
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 13: much respect for him. Nata Yahoo there, who seems to.

1346
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 12: Be you've lost respect for him?

1347
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 13: A long time ago. But nonetheless he seems to be

1348
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 13: calling the shots and he and his very extreme right

1349
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 13: wing I wouldn't even say conservative, because that's a legitimate

1350
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 13: place to be in the world of think England the spectrum,

1351
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 13: but right wing, radical, right wing cabinet.

1352
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 12: But there are leavers that Biden could use, which he

1353
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 12: hasn't used. There are leavers which previous presidents have used

1354
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 12: when Israel has, in their view, crossed the line.

1355
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 13: For example, go back.

1356
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 12: To the nineteen fifty six Eisenhower it's recum sanctions if

1357
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 12: Israel didn't pull its forces out of Sinai. Reagan, you know,

1358
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 12: held up delivery of fighter jets over Israel's action. Eleven

1359
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 12: George Bush Senior block loan guarantees because of settlement building.

1360
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 13: I was there the day that that. I know he

1361
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 13: went back to fifty six.

1362
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 12: I mean, so these levers are there.

1363
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 13: There's some, but the president has said something about the settlements.

1364
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 13: He has said something about the settlements, But.

1365
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 12: Saying and blocking weapons supplies for us very different things.

1366
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 13: It's not it's a path, it's a path.

1367
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 4: Path, it's a path.

1368
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 3: So the Reagan example was great, and she.

1369
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: Apparently, I guess it wasn't aware. She seemed to know

1370
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: about the bush one, lady, you.

1371
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 3: Were alive at that time. I'm pretty sure you were

1372
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 3: in Congress, so you know.

1373
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: And then this week like, well, the President has said

1374
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,479
Speaker 1: something about the settlement. Oh wow, he said something about

1375
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: the settlements. What a brave warrior, really standing up for

1376
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: human rights here. And then when she's pressed on she's like,

1377
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: it's a path. It's like, well, yeah, I guess it

1378
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 1: is a path, isn't it. But you know, it's so

1379
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 1: rare that American politicians actually get pushed on any of this,

1380
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: and they're so locked into this mindset that, oh, well,

1381
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 1: Israel can just do whatever they want, we really have

1382
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: no power over them, et cetera, et cetera. I mean

1383
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: that is exposed right there then and there in real time.

1384
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 1: And she also sober echoes the same language about like, oh,

1385
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: it's the problem is just this like extremist government, that's

1386
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,959
Speaker 1: the real issue, trying to confine it to a few

1387
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 1: bad apples, so to speak, versus you know, the entirety

1388
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: of the project and the illegal occupation and the settlements

1389
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: and the you know, assault on Palestinians, the collective punishment

1390
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: et cetera.

1391
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is one of those where for

1392
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 2: a long for a while, there was a sizeable I

1393
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't say anti settlement, but people who did not agree

1394
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 2: with the policy. It doesn't appear that they have any

1395
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 2: real power in Israeli society right now. A lot of

1396
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 2: that is downstream a demographic, a lot of it is

1397
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 2: downstream of how people feel.

1398
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 3: About Hamas about with the war.

1399
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: But there's no use in pretending that a society that

1400
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 2: exists doesn't exist. So we can't project, we can't project

1401
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 2: our own neurosies and desigres onto another country. I see

1402
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: this with American Indians all the time. They don't like

1403
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 2: Mody or a lot of the BJP, and it's like, yeah,

1404
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 2: well India does, and you don't live there anymore, so

1405
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 2: deal with it. It's one of those where you can't

1406
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 2: conjure up a fake country in your head. You just

1407
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 2: have to deal with what's actually in front of you.

1408
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 2: You also flag this crystal about the ICJ, and let's

1409
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 2: put it up there on the screen. They're currently filing

1410
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 2: their report to the ICJ by trying to protest the

1411
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 2: ruling that plausible acts of genocide were occurring and I

1412
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 2: think it fits very much with this where they both

1413
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 2: have their US politicians who are defending them, but at

1414
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 2: the baseline level, they are preparing and are worried about

1415
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 2: the continued pushback from the Community of Nations, even if

1416
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 2: there is no genuine enforcement mechanism, you know, per se,

1417
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:51,799
Speaker 2: it's just you know, basically imagine it's like South Africa.

1418
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 2: Like if you find yourself basically, you know, at the

1419
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 2: crux of a global genuine BDS movement, then at post

1420
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 2: doctor seven, let's say two to three years from now,

1421
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 2: it's goin have some serious ramifications for your economy. I

1422
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 2: actually just saw a piece of news that flash this

1423
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 2: morning about how Secretary Janet Yellen just sent a letter

1424
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 2: to BB expressing concern about the situation of the Israeli

1425
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 2: economy and directly tying it to the West Bank and

1426
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 2: to continued settlement, saying that you have.

1427
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,560
Speaker 3: A real problem here. So if our Treasury secretary is

1428
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 3: getting involved, you know, is bad.

1429
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1430
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: So this report was mandated by the ICJ and their

1431
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 1: initial ruling saying that Israel is plausibly committing genocide, and

1432
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: they said you have a month to follow a report

1433
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:35,640
Speaker 1: about how you're complying with these injunctions.

1434
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 4: They stopped short of.

1435
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: Overtly calling for a ceasefire, but they called on them

1436
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: to cease the actions that basically led them to that

1437
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 1: conclusion that you're plausibly committing genocide. There was a lot

1438
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: of focus on allowing in humanitarian aid, a lot of

1439
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: focus on accountability for those who are overtly inciting genocide.

1440
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: Now that's problematic for the Israelis since some of the

1441
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: comments cited in South Africa's filing go all the way

1442
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 1: up to the President and the Prime Minister and numerous

1443
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 1: Security Cabinet members, numerous LIQUD party members, etc. So this

1444
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: report that Israel filed, which unfortunately is actually private, is

1445
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: not made public, but reportedly they said it would be

1446
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: brief and that they were expected to assert this is

1447
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 1: per haurets, that it is permitting humanitarian aid including food,

1448
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: medical equipment, to enter Gaza in an organized manner, is

1449
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 1: permitting civilians to leave areas in which there is fighting in.

1450
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 4: Accords with international law.

1451
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: Report is also expected to state that Israel investigates the

1452
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: suspected war crimes in cases of incitement advocating harming civilians

1453
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: in Gaza to your point saga about how Israel does

1454
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 1: appear to be concerned about what happens at the Icy Jay,

1455
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 1: even as it doesn't, you know, as everyone always say,

1456
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: have an enforcement mechanism. Supreme Court also doesn't have an

1457
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,560
Speaker 1: enforcement mechanism. It's all about the way that the institutions

1458
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 1: and bodies that are involved, whether they respect the decisions

1459
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: or not, they do seem to be concerned. They put

1460
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: out that memo, remember from a top leader of the Eye,

1461
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 1: basically being like, don't do any war crimes, guys, and

1462
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 1: definitely don't record yourself doing any war crimes. That was

1463
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: seen as basically, you know, a sort of like last

1464
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: minute attempt to cram for the exam of showing that

1465
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: they're serious about war crimes and human rights, etc. But

1466
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: let me show you the reality, which won't be any

1467
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: surprise to any of you who have been watching this show,

1468
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 1: because we've been covering the fact that they've been allowing

1469
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 1: these protesters to block AID from coming into the Gaza strip.

1470
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 1: So the idea that they've been you know, really expediting

1471
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: in AID and that that's been a top priority for

1472
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 1: them in compliance with what they're required to by the

1473
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: ICJ is obviously preposterous not to mention the fact that

1474
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: we now have confirmed reports of babies and others actually

1475
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: dying from starvation. But Human Rights Watch had specific numbers

1476
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: to Rebut what Israel is claiming here in their ICJ response,

1477
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: we can put this up on the screen. They say

1478
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 1: Israel is not complying with the World Court order in

1479
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: the genocide case, failing to ensure basic services and aid.

1480
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 4: Here's the bottom line.

1481
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 1: Fewer trucks have entered Gaza and fewer aid missions have

1482
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: been permitted to reach northern Gaza in the weeks since

1483
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: the ruling then in the weeks preceding it. According to

1484
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: the un SO data published by OCCHA and the UN

1485
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 1: Relief Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East,

1486
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 1: say that the daily average number of trucks entering Gaza

1487
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 1: with food, aid, medicine, et cetera drop by more than

1488
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: a third in the weeks following the ICJ ruling. You

1489
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 1: had ninety three trucks posts per day post ICJ ruling

1490
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: versus one hundred and forty seven trucks per day, and

1491
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: you only had fifty seven trucks per day between the

1492
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: most recent time period between February ninth and February twenty first,

1493
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: so we're actually going backwards. We're going in the wrong

1494
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: direction in terms of humanitarian aid to a postulation that

1495
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: is now literally starving to death. And some portion of

1496
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 1: that certainly has to do with these protests that are

1497
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: being allowed, which are blocking the trucks. Another part of

1498
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 1: why this is occurring is because you've had now documented reports,

1499
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:20,679
Speaker 1: including by CNN that Israeli forces have struck a food

1500
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: convoy that was back on February fifth. You've also had

1501
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:29,959
Speaker 1: relief organizations saying that they can no longer operate because

1502
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 1: of their fear that they will be attacked. In spite

1503
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 1: of the fact that they're coordinating with the IDF, with

1504
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 1: Israeli authorities, they're giving them their coordinates to avoid being

1505
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: attacked standard deconfliction channels. That has been no guarantee whatsoever.

1506
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 1: So that's the other portion is that these aid convoys

1507
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 1: have no ability to move, especially to Dorlan Gaza, and

1508
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 1: remain safe. And you have very limited amounts coming into

1509
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: the Strip in the first place. So you know, it's

1510
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 1: preposterous to imagine that Israel has actually fulfilled their obligations

1511
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: that the ICJ ruled back a month ago.

1512
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:02,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1513
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 2: No, it's the protests that they've allowed have been absolutely insane,

1514
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 2: especially considering their response that we covered yesterday to the

1515
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 2: protests there are against Bby. They just don't treat them equally.

1516
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 2: It's like, well, then you're basically allowing it to happen.

1517
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 2: And you know, people have eyes. Unfortunately for them, we

1518
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 2: all have. You know, there's video and Google Translate, and

1519
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 2: that's I honestly think if this had happened in the nineties,

1520
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,839
Speaker 2: we've living in a totally different situation. Imagine no phones,

1521
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 2: you know, no footage, and I mean, in a lot

1522
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 2: of ways, it's kind of what two thousand and six

1523
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 2: was like. Two thousand and six was a brutal war.

1524
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 2: We didn't really learn that much. Most of it was

1525
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 2: totally controlled by the media apparatus. But in the current system,

1526
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:44,040
Speaker 2: the stuff doesn't work anymore. There's some major media news

1527
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: which we've been wanting to cover now for quite some time.

1528
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 2: I have some mixed feelings about this. Let's get into it.

1529
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 2: Let's put it up there on the screen. Vice Media,

1530
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 2: which was once valued at five point seven billion dollars

1531
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 2: after filing for bankruptcy previously is now shutting down Vice

1532
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 2: dot Com and laying off hundreds of staffers.

1533
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 3: This is really extraordinary.

1534
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 2: So Vices were all remember, filed for bankruptcy last year.

1535
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 2: It was then bought by a consortium led by basically

1536
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 2: like one of those private investment groups. They're selling the

1537
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 2: company off piecemeal. They've come to a decision where what

1538
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 2: they've decided, We're just not going to publish on this

1539
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 2: website at all anymore. I don't really know what plans

1540
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,560
Speaker 2: they have that remain for the brand, And hundreds of

1541
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 2: the people who worked there asked they're gone, on top

1542
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 2: of the hundreds of people that were already laid off previously.

1543
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 2: And I guess the only reason why I could say

1544
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,400
Speaker 2: I have mixed feelings is I'm not quite sure that

1545
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 2: we would be at least I don't think I would

1546
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 2: be here without Vice. Vice was one of the major

1547
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 2: inspirations that I had for getting into this business. Watching

1548
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 2: the Vice Guides to Travel Shane Smith was a huge

1549
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 2: inspiration to me back in the early twenty tens, all

1550
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 2: of them, all of the original founders, kind of their

1551
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 2: image and the gonzo ability, but more importantly, it was

1552
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 2: a story of legitimately in the mainstream, and the.

1553
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 3: Millennial aspect was played up a bit too much.

1554
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 2: But the thing that they did get right was that

1555
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:11,280
Speaker 2: the staid and the like boring aspect and the propagandistic

1556
01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 2: ways that original media worked was not something that the

1557
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 2: new generation wanted, and I think early early days of

1558
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 2: Ice genuinely spoke to that, and that spoke to a

1559
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 2: lot of their success. But look, you know, at the

1560
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,639
Speaker 2: same way, Shane has also been a very cautionary tale.

1561
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 2: One that I think about for our business all the

1562
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 2: time is I'm like this guy. I mean, he was

1563
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 2: raising billions and billions of dollars to turn into a

1564
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,759
Speaker 2: Ponzi scheme where he's like taking money out inflating the value.

1565
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 2: At one point he admitted to somebody that there was

1566
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 2: no grand plan. It was to try and sell to

1567
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 2: the latest idiot who was buying their marketing place. You know,

1568
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 2: now he's living in luxury and Los Angeles last time

1569
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 2: I checked, Yeah, and all these people are screwed.

1570
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 1: That was what a lot of people pointed out. That

1571
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: executives were still getting big book fat bonuses last year

1572
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,639
Speaker 1: as recently as last year, even as you know, their

1573
01:16:56,280 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: business model was completely crumbling. It is old for me

1574
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 1: to think about. First of all, it's sad for the

1575
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: people who worked there. And you know, this is part

1576
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 1: of a broader trend of massive media layoffs that we've

1577
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 1: been see La Times, BuzzFeed, you know, the collapse of

1578
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: the Messenger. That's a whole other story, but there's clearly,

1579
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,839
Speaker 1: you know, a failure of some of the business models

1580
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 1: that supported, especially these digital focused companies for a long time.

1581
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: I agree with you the early days advice. You know,

1582
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:29,639
Speaker 1: I was at MSNBC when Vice was really hot, right

1583
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 1: and they were terrified, the terrified advice because they could

1584
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,599
Speaker 1: go out, they could send someone on a freaking ice.

1585
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:37,879
Speaker 3: This ride along, which was wild.

1586
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 1: Any established media outlet, you know you have to have.

1587
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 1: First of all, you just probably wouldn't do it, but

1588
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: if you did, the expense involved, the caution involved, the

1589
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: number of fixers that you'd have to have, the amount

1590
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 1: of security you'd have to have, All of that would

1591
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: have to be in place for understandable good reasons, because

1592
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:57,679
Speaker 1: you want to protect your people. And here comes Vice

1593
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: just willing to go balls out into all kinds of

1594
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: crazy stuff, and people were glued to it because it

1595
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 1: did have that like authentic, unvarnished, unpackaged, non corporate feel,

1596
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,839
Speaker 1: and so it really was a glimpse and a preview

1597
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 1: into you know, some of the media brands now, the

1598
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 1: alternative media brands that are.

1599
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 4: Successful, you know, in terms of their business.

1600
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 1: I looked at their YouTube channel yesterday to see what

1601
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 1: kind of things they're doing.

1602
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 3: I mean there's, yeah, what's top was very like, it's very.

1603
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 1: Niche, but some of their stuff still pops off, you know,

1604
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 1: it still gets millions of you sometimes on YouTube. And

1605
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: so I was thinking, you know, Vice, at this point,

1606
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:43,719
Speaker 1: it probably makes sense as like an operation a little

1607
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 1: bit larger than what we do, you know, to just

1608
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:50,520
Speaker 1: put out like video content on these you know, interesting

1609
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 1: or edgy or whatever topics that have a real audience

1610
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 1: that people still are interested in. But and I think

1611
01:18:57,720 --> 01:18:59,519
Speaker 1: this is the case for a lot of these news

1612
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: organizations that have failed. But to have this like nine

1613
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 1: hundred person operation with this giant headquarters in Brooklyn or

1614
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: wherever and support all of that, there's just that's just

1615
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:11,800
Speaker 1: not going to work.

1616
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 4: It's just not going to work.

1617
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 1: The other company that was the you know, big hot

1618
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: company at the time when Vice was coming up, and

1619
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: that everybody was terrified of and trying to get in

1620
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: on their success was BuzzFeed and as the same deal,

1621
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 1: I mean completely completely hollowed out. You know, that business

1622
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: model is also completely collapsed, and so you know a

1623
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,400
Speaker 1: lot of ways, it really is an end, the end

1624
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: of an era for Vice and BuzzFeed and these other

1625
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: auntlets of feet totally hollowed out. But there was a

1626
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:41,719
Speaker 1: moment there when there was a lot of dumb money

1627
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: flowing to these companies, many of which were much less

1628
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 1: credible than Vice or BuzzFeed. You think about like mic yeah,

1629
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: dot com and all these all these companies that sprung up.

1630
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 4: Then there were finally multiple.

1631
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: One hundred million dollars valuations and whatever, and money was

1632
01:19:57,840 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 1: flown out.

1633
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:01,680
Speaker 4: What was the there was just recent with the recount.

1634
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: Was the video play that raised millions and millions of dollars,

1635
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: And it's like, I just want to know how that

1636
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 1: ever penciled out, however penciled out that that was going

1637
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: to work out from a business perspective, it just doesn't

1638
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:14,600
Speaker 1: really make sense to me.

1639
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 3: It doesn't well.

1640
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 2: And the reason, look, it's funny whenever the rich people

1641
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 2: go bust, but it's not funny whenever you hire people

1642
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 2: and then they get screwed, but you legitimately sell them

1643
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 2: a vision. It also, there are hundreds of people who

1644
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 2: are now out of work. Let's put this up there

1645
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 2: on the screen. Just in January twenty twenty four or

1646
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 2: five hundred journalists were laid off from the La Times,

1647
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 2: from Vice, from so many different places, GQ Sports, Illustrated.

1648
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 2: So a lot of this is ideological, a lot of

1649
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: it is just bad business, as you point out with BuzzFeed.

1650
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 2: I just looked up their stock currently trading at thirty

1651
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:47,760
Speaker 2: three cents a share. Whenever it debuted, it debuted at

1652
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 2: ten dollars a share.

1653
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 3: So what is that.

1654
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:51,600
Speaker 2: You can do the math in terms of what the

1655
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,599
Speaker 2: overall loss and their stock value is. I mean, it's

1656
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 2: basically a bargain company just waiting and being chucked off,

1657
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 2: you know, piece by piece. It's kind of humiliating for

1658
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,120
Speaker 2: not only a lot of the money that was put in,

1659
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:04,880
Speaker 2: but just for the game that a lot of those

1660
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 2: people talked at the time. It's one of those it's

1661
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:10,000
Speaker 2: a good lesson in humility, but also just you know,

1662
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:12,280
Speaker 2: you got to run scared, You got to be careful

1663
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 2: whenever you're running a company and I don't think a

1664
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 2: lot of these people did, so it's sad what happened.

1665
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,639
Speaker 2: One of my favorite Vice docs was the guy Heimo,

1666
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 2: the one who lived in the Arctic Circle. It came

1667
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 2: out in like two thousand and nine. I remember watching him.

1668
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:28,720
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like this. I just watched you

1669
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 2: went on YouTube debut eleven years ago, now at some

1670
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 2: point has like eight and a half million views. I

1671
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 2: mean that was the heyday, the Vice Guide to North

1672
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 2: Korea with the cannibal thing from like Berria. I mean,

1673
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 2: these were incredible, incredible to watch. They changed the whole game,

1674
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 2: and then boom, you know, for a variety of reasons,

1675
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 2: most of them their own fault, it just.

1676
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 3: All went away.

1677
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that ad supportive model just it just

1678
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 1: doesn't It doesn't work.

1679
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 4: It just doesn't work. It just doesn't pencil out.

1680
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 1: There just isn't the money there, And so you have

1681
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:57,960
Speaker 1: to be able to switch to you know.

1682
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 4: Reader supported or viewer support, some sort.

1683
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 1: Of membership model, and to make that work, you have

1684
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 1: to be providing something that is really meaningful to people

1685
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: where they feel like they want to be invested into it.

1686
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 4: And even then, you know.

1687
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 1: It will be difficult to support, you know, nine hundred people.

1688
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 1: It's just an insane size and overhead to be able

1689
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:20,760
Speaker 1: to support. I think there used to be, you know,

1690
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: going back in the day, there used to be like

1691
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,639
Speaker 1: a prestige ethos around media where it wasn't so much

1692
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 1: about like this is a money making venture. It was

1693
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 1: more about, like, this is a civic commitment. This is

1694
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: a you know, prestige for me, my family, my whatever,

1695
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: my business. And so the profit making was also not

1696
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 1: as central. But also the business models worked a bit

1697
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: better than they do now. So I think we're very

1698
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:48,680
Speaker 1: much in a transitional phase right now, and it's not

1699
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:50,640
Speaker 1: clear whether what comes out on the other end is

1700
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: better or worse.

1701
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 2: I'd say big time, big time. All right, let's move

1702
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 2: on to the next part here. There was a very

1703
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 2: interesting exchange between Joe Rogan and Kid Rock on the

1704
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 2: war in Gaza that we wanted to break down for everybody.

1705
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

1706
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 14: If you lived in Gaza, you would be convinced that

1707
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 14: it's the end of the world, right because it is

1708
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 14: the end of the world in one place, in that spot,

1709
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,599
Speaker 14: it's the end of the world, but where you are

1710
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:14,679
Speaker 14: it's not. And you got to look at it that way.

1711
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 14: And when I look at it that way, I'm.

1712
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 9: The only wars we won were fucking ones. We were

1713
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 9: the most brutal motherfuckers on the planet. Which I don't

1714
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 9: disagree with what Israel's doing. It's like they should just

1715
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 9: go in there and be like, you know what, we

1716
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 9: want our hostages back. If we don't have them back,

1717
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 9: clock starts now in fucking twenty four hours, we're gonna

1718
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:38,519
Speaker 9: start bombing motherfuckers and killing fucking civilians thirty forty thousand

1719
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 9: a fucking time. So you civilians better fucking pack up

1720
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 9: and fucking get these fucking motherfuckers and you go against

1721
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 9: the oas you fucking go against them. We're not playing

1722
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 9: fucking games with you.

1723
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 3: That's the only thing people understand.

1724
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 9: This is what happened Nagasaki in Hiroshima, Boom swiped out.

1725
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:00,280
Speaker 9: They're like, oh, yes, we don't have Supreme Leader more.

1726
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 9: We did not know you had such big bombs.

1727
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 14: Yeah, but everybody has big bombs.

1728
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 9: Now.

1729
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 14: The problem is you use a big bomb, you set

1730
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 14: a precedent that they can use a big bomb. They

1731
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 14: don't have one, well they don't, but their allies too.

1732
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 3: That's the real.

1733
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 9: Problem out of them, someone's gonna learn.

1734
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 14: Yeah, but you can't just nuclear bomb people. I didn't

1735
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 14: say the nuclear bomb you back, No, I didn't. Okay,

1736
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 14: he said you here as Shima in Nagasaki. I thought

1737
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:24,639
Speaker 14: you meant it like No, No, I.

1738
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 9: Was saying just the brute force of strength used in.

1739
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 14: Those Yeah, but even even a conventional bombing campaign, if

1740
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 14: you want to do that somewhere, they can do that

1741
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:36,719
Speaker 14: to your place. And this is what we have.

1742
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 9: To fuck around and find out.

1743
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 14: Yeah, until someone launches nukes. Yeah, but if you think

1744
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 14: about you're a kid and you don't know why there's

1745
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 14: a conflict between Palestine and Israel, and you're living in Palestine,

1746
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 14: and then they start bombing and then they kill your mom.

1747
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 14: Yeah but you didn't do it. But right, but you

1748
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 14: didn't do anything.

1749
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 9: It sounds like butling.

1750
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:59,080
Speaker 14: And then you get guns. You're gonna go want to

1751
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 14: attack people, You're going to want to avenge them, You're

1752
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 14: gonna want to join whatever group whatever World War two end.

1753
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 9: Now, I'm sorry, man, this is fucking war. It's terrible.

1754
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,680
Speaker 9: It's the worst thing on earth. I'm a peaceful man.

1755
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:16,440
Speaker 14: Right, but you're not supposed to pick civilian targets that's actually.

1756
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 3: Supposed to targets they are.

1757
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 6: Wow.

1758
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of I think going on there.

1759
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 3: I think it's okay.

1760
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 2: First of all, what I find interesting about Kid Rock

1761
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 2: is he clearly, uh, you know, no offense, mister Rock.

1762
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 2: But it appears you haven't done actually a little bit

1763
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:38,639
Speaker 2: of reading about the Second World War and exactly why

1764
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 2: Hiroshima and Nagasaki and those targets were picked. You know,

1765
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 2: even at that time, the explicit justification Crystal was not

1766
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 2: to hit civilian targets for the sake of them. It

1767
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 2: was to wipe out mechanical centers and specifically centers of production.

1768
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:56,639
Speaker 3: The only time where there was an.

1769
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 2: Explicit goal of basically burning an entire city of civil

1770
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 2: billions and all that to the ground was dressed in

1771
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 2: that was actually not the US.

1772
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,480
Speaker 3: It was a UK centered operation.

1773
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 2: But even then there was a lot of consternation in America,

1774
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 2: in the UK government and elsewhere when that decision was made,

1775
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 2: and it was never justified in the terms that Kid

1776
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 2: Rock is laying out there.

1777
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 4: And it didn't work.

1778
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 2: Well, okay, but there's let's presume that it did work.

1779
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:24,680
Speaker 2: I think there's a case for the atomic bomb, that

1780
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 2: it definitely compelled right the surrender. But my point is

1781
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 2: that throughout the entire justification of the firebombing campaign on Tokyo,

1782
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 2: on all of the major cities in Japan, it was

1783
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 2: always to center industrial production. It was never a primary goal,

1784
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 2: including of Curtis LeMay and of bomber Command. You can

1785
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 2: go and read the history if you would like to.

1786
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 2: I have done extensive, deep dive into the topic, and

1787
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:49,759
Speaker 2: it was explicitly agreed from the chiefest Staff, the President

1788
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 2: of the United States, Harry Truman, and everybody involved that

1789
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 2: it was not the quote unquote the purpose of the operation,

1790
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,480
Speaker 2: and that was when we had atomic and air supremacy.

1791
01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 2: Rogan's best point there is like, well, first of all, dude,

1792
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 2: you know other people can also do that. And this

1793
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,439
Speaker 2: the reason I'm talking this way is let's accept that

1794
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 2: this actually would work.

1795
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 3: Well, it didn't work, number one.

1796
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 2: You know, it may have worked in the atomic case,

1797
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 2: but the atomic supremacy and all that we had at

1798
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 2: that time no longer applies in this. And then whenever

1799
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 2: we did firebomb Dresden and in much of the lat

1800
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 2: later stages of the war, the veracity of the ferocity

1801
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 2: of the fire botting campaign compelled many Germans, including Luffwaffa

1802
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 2: pilots weremox soldiers, children, older men, to fight even more

1803
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 2: for Hitler because they didn't want to repeat the same

1804
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 2: humiliation of Versailles, which made it much more bloody and

1805
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 2: much more difficult to compel victory in the first place.

1806
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:45,600
Speaker 2: So that's if you just don't even accept much of

1807
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 2: the morality. And then Rogan's point of course is like,

1808
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 2: hey man, that's also a war crime, Like you're not

1809
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 2: supposed to do that. And that's the thing what shocks

1810
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,799
Speaker 2: me is even you know, everybody just tries to retcon

1811
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 2: World War Two. They didn't even talk like this then,

1812
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 2: and we were fighting the Nazis the Japanese.

1813
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: And they hid the photos and videos of what was

1814
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 1: done to civilians.

1815
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:09,760
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, for that kid, because they knew the whore.

1816
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:13,360
Speaker 1: And there's also a reason why after World War Two

1817
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:16,559
Speaker 1: we say, all right, we got to have some rules

1818
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 1: of the road here, because to your point, even at

1819
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: that time, it was clear that the US wasn't going

1820
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 1: to be the only one with nuclear capabilities, and so

1821
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 1: you know, that was why we had to establish, all right,

1822
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,800
Speaker 1: we have to protect civilians number one, because this shit

1823
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 1: that just happened cannot happen again, and why there was

1824
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 1: so much policy around nuclear deterrence, because it is a

1825
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:41,840
Speaker 1: very different deal when you are the one and only

1826
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,559
Speaker 1: batty out there with a nuke and now you know

1827
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 1: Israel had Iran is closed.

1828
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,719
Speaker 3: You have numerous Saudi scouty's to have nukes, You.

1829
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:54,160
Speaker 1: Have numerous global powers with nuclear massive nuclear capabilities that

1830
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: could literally destroy the world, and actually appreciated Brogan bring

1831
01:28:57,280 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 1: that up because that is the facet of this that

1832
01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 1: we actually don't that often we talked about it. We

1833
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: talk about it more with regard to Russia and Ukraine

1834
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 1: because the conflict there is so direct. But that is

1835
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 1: the logic of you know, kid rocks, idiotic, fuck around

1836
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: and find out. Mentality is like, oh really, let's explore

1837
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 1: where that actually goes. He raises not only the fact of,

1838
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:21,720
Speaker 1: you know, the escalation that you do not ultimately want,

1839
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 1: which could have massive implications for everyone in the globe.

1840
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 1: He raises the morality of you can't target civilians, that's

1841
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: a war crime. There's a reason why we put that

1842
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,840
Speaker 1: out of bounds. But he also talks about the fact

1843
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 1: that you know, even in terms of even if you

1844
01:29:38,240 --> 01:29:41,000
Speaker 1: put aside the morality of it, which I don't think

1845
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,040
Speaker 1: we should do. But even if you put that aside,

1846
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 1: these little kids we just had their mom killed, Like,

1847
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,679
Speaker 1: what do you think is going to happen to them?

1848
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 4: They're going to be radicalized, They're going to grow up and.

1849
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 1: Join whatever militant terrorist organization is available, and they're going

1850
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: to try to come and kill you. So even just

1851
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 1: from a logical like all right, we got to win

1852
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 1: and we got to keep our people safe, etc. Perspective,

1853
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: this is foolish. And it has been clear that this

1854
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 1: is foolish from the very beginning. So I actually thought

1855
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: he did a good job raising some very salient points

1856
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 1: in a very accessible way. And I mean, kid Rock

1857
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 1: is just embarrassing. Sometimes people think Joe is just going

1858
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 1: to go along with whatever insane bullshit they're going to spell,

1859
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 1: and he has this normal instinct of like, you know,

1860
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:25,840
Speaker 1: other people have big bombs too, and by the way,

1861
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 1: those are war crimes, so maybe we shouldn't be going

1862
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 1: in that.

1863
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's also it actually doesn't make sense too.

1864
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,040
Speaker 2: I mean, what everybody where the instinct comes from is

1865
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 2: it's an obvious instinct and It's one that a lot

1866
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:39,760
Speaker 2: of Americans said after World War or sorry, after nine

1867
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 2: to eleven.

1868
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 3: They're like, oh, it's bomb back to the Stone Age.

1869
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 2: Everything I learned about Islam I learned about on nine

1870
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 2: to eleven.

1871
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 3: But here's what people don't get.

1872
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 2: I think the only historical precedent for the mindset that

1873
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:52,640
Speaker 2: he's talking about there is Jenghis Khan and the Mongols

1874
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 2: in terms of the way that they were able to

1875
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:55,880
Speaker 2: subjugate many of the powers that.

1876
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:57,759
Speaker 3: Were under them. Here's where everybody forgets.

1877
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 2: After a while, those people, all, you know, they may

1878
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 2: have acquiesced in the beginning, they mostly fought back, and

1879
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:05,720
Speaker 2: in the end they threw off the Mongols after let's

1880
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:08,800
Speaker 2: say one hundred years or so. My point only being

1881
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:10,840
Speaker 2: that it doesn't really ever work. You know, in the

1882
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 2: long run. The best empires, the ones that were ever

1883
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 2: able to successfully conquer, which even the Mongols eventually resorted to,

1884
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:19,680
Speaker 2: was listen, you know, we're in charge. You pay us

1885
01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 2: some tax, but you do what you want to do.

1886
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:24,519
Speaker 2: As in, trying to compel people through force for a

1887
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:27,559
Speaker 2: long and sustained period of time is very rarely a

1888
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 2: winning solution.

1889
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:30,720
Speaker 3: That's again the point that I would make.

1890
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:32,400
Speaker 2: I would also say, you know, look at the number

1891
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:35,280
Speaker 2: of people that they've already killed. If it was if

1892
01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 2: the logic was theirs, we're going to continue to kill

1893
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:39,920
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people without the hostages being turned over.

1894
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 3: Well it hasn't worked so far, Yeah, you know, it hasn't.

1895
01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 2: If anything, also, I mean, what's the most common talking point,

1896
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,519
Speaker 2: Hamas doesn't care about the population. Well, if that's true,

1897
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 2: then why would they care if you continue to massacre

1898
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:52,640
Speaker 2: the population. What's the population supposed to do about it?

1899
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 2: You think they know where all the hostages are? No,

1900
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 2: they don't. I just saw video yesterday, I think yesterday

1901
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 2: of Ryan that Ryan highlighted people of Hamas explicitly, you know,

1902
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:05,640
Speaker 2: having a conflict or whatever with the local population. But

1903
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:08,720
Speaker 2: it's one of those where you really still obscure, you know,

1904
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:09,640
Speaker 2: the actual.

1905
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:11,719
Speaker 3: People who are on the ground, and you're genuinely defensive.

1906
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:13,720
Speaker 2: So that's something that I've taken away from a lot

1907
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 2: of the reading on the Tokyo campaign, on the fire

1908
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 2: bombing campaign, and on Dresden and all of that as well.

1909
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 3: These really were ordinary folks.

1910
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 2: I'm talking like farmers daughters, people who were sixteen seventeen

1911
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 2: years old, little kids, and they burned alive. And it's

1912
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 2: one of those where the people around them never forgot it,

1913
01:32:31,240 --> 01:32:32,160
Speaker 2: and they fought.

1914
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:35,120
Speaker 3: To the death as a result of what they saw, in.

1915
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 2: Many cases executed prisoners of our prisoners of war and

1916
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:41,760
Speaker 2: others as explicit revenge for those past which I do

1917
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:44,320
Speaker 2: not hope or want invite. It was a horrible time

1918
01:32:44,360 --> 01:32:46,280
Speaker 2: and it's not something we would ever want to repeat again.

1919
01:32:46,360 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we don't want to go backwards there, Crystal,

1920
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 1: What are you taking a look at? A massive scandal

1921
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 1: is developing the New York Times, where it has now

1922
01:32:55,479 --> 01:32:58,719
Speaker 1: been revealed but the co author of a discredited article

1923
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 1: on rape on October seventh, liked genocidal posts on social media,

1924
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 1: is a former member of an IDF intelligence unit and

1925
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 1: had not even worked as a journalist at all prior

1926
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:12,760
Speaker 1: to taking on a central role in Times coverage. The

1927
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:14,880
Speaker 1: Times is now investigating the journalists, a woman by the

1928
01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:17,080
Speaker 1: name of a Not Schwartz. But the questions about this

1929
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:20,760
Speaker 1: incident go so far beyond this one journalist and her

1930
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:25,240
Speaker 1: appreciation for psychopathic social media posts. So here is the backstory.

1931
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 1: On December twenty eighth, the New York Times published and

1932
01:33:27,560 --> 01:33:30,880
Speaker 1: News alerted what appeared to be an extensive investigation into

1933
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 1: one of the most fraught and contested parts of the

1934
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 1: Israeli October seventh narrative, that sexual assault was used by

1935
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:40,679
Speaker 1: Hamas systematically as a weapon of war on that day.

1936
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:45,120
Speaker 1: The piece was headlined screams without words, how Hamas weaponized

1937
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:48,000
Speaker 1: sexual violence on October seventh, and the byeline name three

1938
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:52,719
Speaker 1: different authors, Jeffrey Gettelman, Anna Schwartz, and Adam Sella. Now,

1939
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:55,559
Speaker 1: the fact that Hammas committed atrocities on October seventh is

1940
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 1: not in dispute. However, certain particularly horrifying anecdotes claimed by

1941
01:33:59,880 --> 01:34:03,120
Speaker 1: the Israeli government had fallen apart under scrutiny by Israeli

1942
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:07,799
Speaker 1: outlet Haretz. These debunked claims include that forty babies were beheaded,

1943
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:09,800
Speaker 1: that a baby was found in an oven, and that

1944
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:11,800
Speaker 1: a pregnant woman had her baby cut out of her,

1945
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:14,479
Speaker 1: among others. It is no accident, of course, that these

1946
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 1: stories were propagated. This ajic prop about the barbarism of

1947
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 1: Hamas was crucial for Israel in their attempt to justify

1948
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 1: a barbaric assault on the Gaza Strip. So this piece

1949
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:26,679
Speaker 1: Screams Without Words was published by the New York Times

1950
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: purporting to back up Israeli assertions about widespread rape on

1951
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: October seventh. It was incredibly significant, but no sooner had

1952
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 1: the piece been published that major problems emerged. The family

1953
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 1: of a woman murdered by Jimlas, who was presented as

1954
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:43,040
Speaker 1: a central figure in the New York Times narrative about

1955
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 1: widespread rape, denounced the story in furious and unequivocal terms.

1956
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: They claimed that when The Times interviewed them about their

1957
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 1: murdered loved one, Gal Abdush, under false pretenses. The family

1958
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:56,960
Speaker 1: said that they had no indication Gal had been raped,

1959
01:34:57,200 --> 01:35:00,280
Speaker 1: no evidence to support such claims, did not believe them

1960
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:02,880
Speaker 1: to be true, and that they had no idea that

1961
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 1: The Times had planned to say.

1962
01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 4: That Gal had been raped.

1963
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 1: Multiple family members told the Israeli press that the media

1964
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:13,200
Speaker 1: invented the story and demanded that they stop spreading lies.

1965
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:16,600
Speaker 1: Gal's story comprised no less than one third of the

1966
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:19,559
Speaker 1: lengthy Times report, and that was really just the beginning

1967
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:22,639
Speaker 1: of the problems with that report. Key witnesses were caught

1968
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:26,439
Speaker 1: telling inconsistent stories to different news outlets. Screams Without Words

1969
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 1: had relied on the testimony of a volunteer with an

1970
01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 1: ultra orthodox nonprofit called Zaka that had been caught fabricating

1971
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 1: some of the most visceral debunked anecdotes about October seventh,

1972
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:38,400
Speaker 1: including that one about the forty beheaded babies, and the

1973
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 1: Times itself, well, they appeared to lose confidence in the reporting,

1974
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,639
Speaker 1: as our colleague Rian Graham, along with Daniel Bogislaw reported

1975
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:47,040
Speaker 1: for The Intercept, an episode of the New York Times

1976
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:50,280
Speaker 1: flagship podcast, The Daily had been planned to detail the

1977
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 1: reporting from the sexual assault piece, which had originally been

1978
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 1: much hyped by the New York Times newsroom. But as

1979
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:58,600
Speaker 1: the quote unquote reporting in the piece fell apart, the

1980
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:01,479
Speaker 1: Times was left with a major dilemma about what to do.

1981
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:04,559
Speaker 1: Should they ignore the problems, stand by their shoddy reporting

1982
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:06,599
Speaker 1: and push out the Daily episode as recorded.

1983
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:08,320
Speaker 4: Should they edit the Daily.

1984
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:10,680
Speaker 1: Episode and attempt to correct the record, add caveats and

1985
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:14,200
Speaker 1: effectively admit the problems with that original report, or should

1986
01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 1: they take the coward's way out and just shelve the

1987
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:20,120
Speaker 1: episode entirely. Now, a responsible outlet would either correct the

1988
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:23,679
Speaker 1: original story or retract it. Given these serious journalistic failings

1989
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:26,120
Speaker 1: that have been brought to light, but the Times shows

1990
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:28,880
Speaker 1: to keep their propaganda piece as is, shelve the daily

1991
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 1: episode and hope that everyone just moved on. Incredibly, the

1992
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,519
Speaker 1: lead author of that piece, Jeffrey Gettleman, was at great

1993
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:39,040
Speaker 1: pains to explain that as a journalist, he did not

1994
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:42,639
Speaker 1: see his job as providing evidence for his reporting claims.

1995
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 4: Take a listen.

1996
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:45,760
Speaker 5: I don't want to even use the word evidence because

1997
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,559
Speaker 5: evidence is almost like the legal term that suggests you're

1998
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 5: trying to prove an allegation or prove a case of court.

1999
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:53,639
Speaker 5: That's not my role.

2000
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 8: We all have our roles, and my role is to document,

2001
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 8: is to percent, is to give people of voice.

2002
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:06,000
Speaker 1: So if this investigation didn't include evidence, what the hell

2003
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,080
Speaker 1: are we doing here? But as if all of that

2004
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:11,679
Speaker 1: wasn't wild enough, we are now learning some absolutely shocking

2005
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 1: things about the background of the second reporter on that piece,

2006
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 1: the aforementioned A not Schwartz. Shout out to the Squirrel

2007
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:20,599
Speaker 1: for doing this digging online. First of all, on October seventh,

2008
01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 1: a not like to post calling for Gaza to be

2009
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 1: turned into a slaughterhouse. This post was so overtly genocidal

2010
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:30,800
Speaker 1: in its rhetoric that it was actually cited in South

2011
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:34,439
Speaker 1: Africa's filing at the HEGG. The post read, in part one,

2012
01:37:34,479 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: principle that needs to be abandoned today proportionality need a

2013
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:41,559
Speaker 1: disproportionate response. May Israel see what she is hiding in

2014
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:44,400
Speaker 1: the basement. If all the captives are not returned, immediately

2015
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:48,599
Speaker 1: turn the strip into a slaughterhouse. If a hair falls

2016
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: from their head, execute security prisoners violate.

2017
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:53,559
Speaker 4: Any norm on the way to victory.

2018
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 1: The post goes on to explain quote those in front

2019
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:59,800
Speaker 1: of us are human animals and not also apparently liked

2020
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:02,759
Speaker 1: a post about that forty beheaded babies lie, and another

2021
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:06,560
Speaker 1: one calling for an effective propaganda operation to equate humas

2022
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,920
Speaker 1: with isis love for our journalists to be out here

2023
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:14,760
Speaker 1: explicitly advocating for propaganda campaigns. This is completely insane. If

2024
01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:18,360
Speaker 1: a journalists had liked similarly genocidal post calling for Israel

2025
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:20,400
Speaker 1: to be turned into a slaughterhouse, it would be a

2026
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 1: national scandal. The entire New York Times leadership be dragged

2027
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 1: in front of congressional hearings and summarily fired. In fact,

2028
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 1: New York Times foresound a prominent staff writer who was

2029
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:32,200
Speaker 1: not involved in Israel Palisi and coverage simply for signing

2030
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:36,000
Speaker 1: a letter opposing Israel's genocide in Gaza. The International Court

2031
01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 1: of Justice, of course, has now agreed that it is

2032
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:42,839
Speaker 1: in fact plausible Israel is committing genocide. Now, after Annot's

2033
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 1: posts were exposed, she locked down her Twitter account deleted

2034
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:48,040
Speaker 1: most of her history before returning. While she can delete

2035
01:38:48,040 --> 01:38:50,800
Speaker 1: her social media history, she can't really so easily delete

2036
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:55,240
Speaker 1: her professional past, which, if anything, is actually even wilder so. Apparently,

2037
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:58,439
Speaker 1: prior to landing this plum gig at the New York Times,

2038
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 1: a not Schwartz had never worked as a journalist, never

2039
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 1: published a single piece anywhere. Ever, before being scooped up

2040
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:11,439
Speaker 1: by The Times in November, just after the October seventh attack,

2041
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:14,200
Speaker 1: she had been working as a small time filmmaker. Perhaps

2042
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:15,960
Speaker 1: the Times was looking for someone with a flair for

2043
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 1: the cinematic, but really think about this. Actual journalists spend

2044
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:24,520
Speaker 1: their entire careers dreaming of a New York Times byline.

2045
01:39:24,600 --> 01:39:27,480
Speaker 1: The Times, after all, is the holy grail of elite journalism,

2046
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:32,120
Speaker 1: and this lady with literally zero experience somehow gets brought

2047
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:35,160
Speaker 1: in on a highly sensitive investigation on one of the

2048
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:37,040
Speaker 1: most fraught topics imaginable.

2049
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,280
Speaker 4: How the hell did this happen?

2050
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:40,080
Speaker 7: But not?

2051
01:39:40,280 --> 01:39:42,760
Speaker 1: Is not only a former filmmaker, she is also a

2052
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:45,200
Speaker 1: former IDF soldier who served, I kid you not, in

2053
01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:48,400
Speaker 1: an Air Force intelligence unit. So the lady with the

2054
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:52,320
Speaker 1: genocidal social media posts, with no prior journalism experience and

2055
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 1: a background in Israeli military intelligence was contracted to report

2056
01:39:56,479 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 1: on a piece which perfectly served Israeli government propaganda efforts

2057
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:00,479
Speaker 1: at the time.

2058
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 4: What is happening here?

2059
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 1: Ryan, of course has been doing great reporting, as usually

2060
01:40:05,120 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: he has got it from several sources. The Times is

2061
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 1: parting ways with a not It's already been reported she

2062
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: is under investigation, but at this point those actions seem

2063
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 1: like convenience scapegoating to cover up much graver questions, who

2064
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 1: brought this lady in, how did they find her, who

2065
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:22,519
Speaker 1: green let this piece? Why have they not addressed the

2066
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 1: journalistic collapse of their supposedly blockbuster investigation, and what other

2067
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:31,240
Speaker 1: Israeli propaganda and lies are they currently laundering.

2068
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:32,759
Speaker 4: It's not only The New York.

2069
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:34,800
Speaker 1: Times, by the way, Wall Street Journal recently published a

2070
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,799
Speaker 1: piece based on zero evidence that ran cover for Israeli

2071
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,639
Speaker 1: claims about UNRA, which helped justify the US pulling aid

2072
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:41,880
Speaker 1: at a time when Palestinians in.

2073
01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:43,599
Speaker 4: Gaza are starving to death.

2074
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:46,760
Speaker 1: That piece, too, was co authored by a so called

2075
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:50,760
Speaker 1: journalist named Carrie Keller Lynn with undeniable biases. She too

2076
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:53,479
Speaker 1: served in the IDF, and Aaronview bragged about how her

2077
01:40:53,600 --> 01:40:56,799
Speaker 1: very close friend literally created social media for the IDF.

2078
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:58,280
Speaker 4: Those are her words, not mine.

2079
01:40:58,439 --> 01:41:00,360
Speaker 1: Once these photos that you can see on your screen

2080
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:03,799
Speaker 1: starts circulating, Carrie Keller Lynn also locked her accounts, scrubbed

2081
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 1: her history, or prevent anyone from gathering further insights into

2082
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:10,759
Speaker 1: her pro Israel bias. Now this incident casts in a

2083
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:14,080
Speaker 1: whole new light. The studies would show systematic bias across

2084
01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:16,560
Speaker 1: major news outlets when it comes to coverage of Israelis

2085
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:21,439
Speaker 1: and coverage of Palestinians. Israelis are slaughtered, Palestinians just mysteriously die,

2086
01:41:21,640 --> 01:41:23,799
Speaker 1: great pains are often taken and make sure that Israel

2087
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Is never directly ascribed blank. And as the Palestinian death

2088
01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:30,600
Speaker 1: toll has climbed, the coverage of their deaths has actually plummeted.

2089
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 1: It is a testament to the outrageous nature of the

2090
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:36,520
Speaker 1: suffering that, in spite of this, onslaught of lies and propaganda.

2091
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:40,960
Speaker 1: The American people still overwhelmingly support a ceasefire, even or

2092
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 1: not with her skills as a filmmaker with an Israeli

2093
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 1: intelligence background, can't craft propaganda strong enough to overcome the

2094
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:51,679
Speaker 1: visceral horror of what has been done. And Sager Ryan

2095
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:52,879
Speaker 1: has another piece.

2096
01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:53,880
Speaker 2: Which is going to post, and if you want to

2097
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:57,240
Speaker 2: hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber

2098
01:41:57,240 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 2: today at Breakingpoints dot com.

2099
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:00,400
Speaker 3: All right, well see you guys. Was later

2100
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:09,240
Speaker 13: Mhm