Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2: Food Unlock so many memories, the kitchen you grew up in,
Speaker 2: the first meal you cooked, celebrations with friends and family.
Speaker 2: More than forty guests have joined me at Table four
Speaker 2: this season, sharing recipes, cooking together and talking about the
Speaker 2: importance of food in all of our lives. In this episode,
Speaker 2: we will share some of those conversations, hearing from the
Speaker 2: actors Stephen Fry and Laura Dern, former footballer Gary Lineker,
Speaker 2: and the three star Michelin chef Eric Repair. But first
Speaker 2: Linda Vangelista talking about her memories of working as a
Speaker 2: model in the eighties, her love of cooking, and life
Speaker 2: in Canada with her Italian family. We began with our
Speaker 2: recipe for nyoki with slow cooked tomato sauce.
Speaker 3: It's great to see something in writing, because I learned
Speaker 3: to make nyoki with my grandmother, but it was never
Speaker 3: written down, and it was a little bit of this
Speaker 3: and this, many eggs depending how big they are, and
Speaker 3: some potatoes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some potatoes. That's how we learned to I mean,
Speaker 2: that's a beautiful way to learn. She did she ever
Speaker 2: write anything down? She couldn't write. Yeah, she didn't know
Speaker 2: how to write. She didn't know how to write English.
Speaker 2: She didn't know how to write it all. She didn't
Speaker 2: know how to write it all. She was a peasant.
Speaker 3: She was born in Italy, as was my father and
Speaker 3: my mother and all my grandparents.
Speaker 2: And do you speak Italian?
Speaker 3: Very badly? I speak it, and my family speaks dialect.
Speaker 3: I know you're friend and proper Italian, but at home
Speaker 3: they speak dialect. My parents spoke English to us growing up,
Speaker 3: and only when they were arguing did they speak to
Speaker 3: each other in Italian. So I can tell you where
Speaker 3: to go in Italian, but I can't ask you are
Speaker 3: you having a nice.
Speaker 2: Day or kind words. My husband, Richard and Zad's father
Speaker 2: had Italian parents, and he had the same thing that
Speaker 2: he heard spoken, a very similar story when there was
Speaker 2: an argument, I think. And then when he did learn Italian,
Speaker 2: a lot of it came back because he had kind
Speaker 2: of grown up for it.
Speaker 3: So this grandmother, she never did learn him to speak English.
Speaker 3: And in our neighborhood it was quite Polish, some Ukrainians
Speaker 3: and Italians.
Speaker 2: Where was it? Where was then?
Speaker 3: In Saint Catharine's, Ontario, Canada across the lake from Toronto
Speaker 3: in Niagara Region, right near the border of the United States,
Speaker 3: and my grandmother went to Italian mass shopped at the
Speaker 3: Italian store, worked picking fruit on the farm with the
Speaker 3: Italian ladies, so she didn't really need to speak English.
Speaker 3: I remember how excited they all got that generation when
Speaker 3: Canada went metric. I was about ten years old or so,
Speaker 3: I approximately, and then they understood, oh, this is how
Speaker 3: many grams of meat I'm buying, and so they were
Speaker 3: very happy when that happened.
Speaker 2: When did they leave. The family comes from between Naples
Speaker 2: and Rome.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a town called Pinatado in Taramna which is
Speaker 3: near Casino and Monte Casino, where the big battle World
Speaker 3: War two took place. And my father would have come over.
Speaker 3: And he was born in nineteen forty and I think
Speaker 3: he came over nineteen fifty six. And my mother was
Speaker 3: born in forty three and she came over in nineteen fifty.
Speaker 2: And the grandmother that you were describing was that your
Speaker 2: mother's mother.
Speaker 3: That was my father's mother, but my mother's mother's kind
Speaker 3: of the same.
Speaker 2: And they all came they all eventually they were all.
Speaker 3: Yes, and they came with the few belongings that they had.
Speaker 3: And I have the two handmade hammered copper pots that
Speaker 3: my one grandmother came over with and she would make
Speaker 3: her Sunday you know, to mao sauce in and I
Speaker 3: have them. They're like, there are precious belongings. There's no painting,
Speaker 3: there's no paintings.
Speaker 2: Yes, saw Sam is a memory and it is what
Speaker 2: she cooked with, so bringing that with her was part
Speaker 2: of her Why did they leave, you.
Speaker 3: Know, they left in search of a better life. They
Speaker 3: had lost everything. Well, they didn't have anything much. They
Speaker 3: worked their land, so it's not like they had vocations and.
Speaker 2: They just.
Speaker 3: Went in search of a better life for their children.
Speaker 2: In Canada rather than the United States.
Speaker 3: Well, they were heading to the United States, but at
Speaker 3: the time they closed their doors and then they were
Speaker 3: not receiving any more immigrants. And somebody in the United
Speaker 3: States found a sponsor for my grandfather in Canada and
Speaker 3: the other one similar story. So yeah, one grandfather was
Speaker 3: a prisoner of war. They were in the war. My
Speaker 3: grandfather's My mom was born during the war forty three.
Speaker 2: And she spoke Italian.
Speaker 3: She speaks proper and dialect.
Speaker 2: She speaks both when do you say dialect, you mean
Speaker 2: the dialect of that region.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it gets even worse because then, you know,
Speaker 3: it takes on a life of its own in Canada,
Speaker 3: not quite like the way the Americans, they like totally
Speaker 3: butchered the language. And I don't like the way they
Speaker 3: cut off the ends of the words when they say mozzarella.
Speaker 2: When they say mozzarell, that's Tony Soprano, remember Tony's in
Speaker 2: watching the Sopranos. They would always call it mozzarell. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's and so your mother also, your mother had both
Speaker 2: her mother and her mother in law correct with her. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And did they all cook together?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think early on they did. And you know, my
Speaker 3: mother is because she came over young, she got quite americanized,
Speaker 3: and you know she she you know, she has an
Speaker 3: education and she cooks with recipes she but she also
Speaker 3: has all the recipes in her head like what she
Speaker 3: grew up making.
Speaker 2: Who is the best cook of all of them? Do
Speaker 2: you think me? You good? Okay, We're gonna get to that.
Speaker 2: I like your answer, Okay, So do you want to
Speaker 2: read the recipe with tomato sauce ganaki?
Speaker 3: I'm joking, Okay, yoki with tomato sauce, served six in
Speaker 3: my family.
Speaker 2: Three one, yeah, okay?
Speaker 3: Two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil. Two clothes of
Speaker 3: garlic finally sliced. I would say a little, you can
Speaker 3: add more?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay? Good?
Speaker 3: Eight hundred grams of ten peeled plum tomatoes. One kilogram
Speaker 3: of white flowery potatoes.
Speaker 2: Imma will be happy that this is in grams, wouldn't she? Yes,
Speaker 2: she would.
Speaker 3: One hundred and thirty grams of double zero flour, one
Speaker 3: large egg, lightly beaten, and ten basil leaves interesting.
Speaker 2: Heat the olive.
Speaker 3: Oil in a large frying pan over a medium heat.
Speaker 3: Add the garlic and cook until soft. Add the tomatoes,
Speaker 3: breaking them up, season well, and cook for thirty minutes
Speaker 3: on low heat. Bring a large saucepan of salted water
Speaker 3: to a boil and add the potatoes and cook until
Speaker 3: they are easily pierced with a fork. Drain and peel
Speaker 3: when they are cool enough to handle. Immediately put the
Speaker 3: potatoes through a food milk and then sift the flour
Speaker 3: over them, making a well in the center. Add the
Speaker 3: beaten egg using your hands, quickly mixed to form a smooth,
Speaker 3: soft dough. Do not overwork the dough or you will
Speaker 3: make the nyoki too heavy. Divide the dough into four
Speaker 3: using your hands, roll the dough into a sausage and
Speaker 3: then cut into pieces. Cook the yoki until they rise
Speaker 3: to the surface. Remove the yaki with a slotted spoon,
Speaker 3: and then stir into the tomato sauce. Add the basil
Speaker 3: and if you like grated potamigiano. Now we ran our
Speaker 3: yoki along.
Speaker 2: A four to get the ridges. You can do that.
Speaker 2: We sometimes do ridges and sometimes we don't. I prefer without, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you prefer without. We were also talking today about yaki.
Speaker 2: I was talken to Joseph Trevelli, one of my chefs.
Speaker 2: He was saying, do you remember Ruthy, how the cook
Speaker 2: in our house in Italy called Giovanna made yaki And
Speaker 2: she said to us, when you form them them was
Speaker 2: like you're doing a book, Like you're making a book
Speaker 2: of the flower and the mixture. Because if you it
Speaker 2: is really true that if you handle them too much,
Speaker 2: they do get tough, and so you want to touch
Speaker 2: the flower gets old, it gets overdeveloped, and the idea
Speaker 2: that you want to make them as light and actually
Speaker 2: I also used to say that what we do is
Speaker 2: we'd make the potatoes and add a little bit of
Speaker 2: flower and then put one in and then they'd fall apart.
Speaker 2: And then you would add a little bit of flower,
Speaker 2: and you would do it so gradually that then you
Speaker 2: would know that you need that amount of flower for
Speaker 2: them not to fall apart, but the least amount makes
Speaker 2: them as light as you can.
Speaker 3: And then once you've done them so many times, you
Speaker 3: just know.
Speaker 2: So let's go back to the beginning. You grew up
Speaker 2: with an Italian grandmother's two, two grandfathers, two your parents.
Speaker 2: What was food like growing up in the Evangelista household.
Speaker 3: Well, I complained a lot because we always ate homemade
Speaker 3: food and I wanted to have TV dinner or frozen
Speaker 3: meals or something out of a can.
Speaker 2: I wanted to close from Sears roebook. I was really oh,
Speaker 2: my clothes were from Cyrus. I did a thing to
Speaker 2: my mother, not that we had money, but why can't
Speaker 2: we buy clothes out of a catalog?
Speaker 3: That sounds so my clothes were from Sears and Woolworth.
Speaker 3: So yeah, So it was a lot of homemade food
Speaker 3: and I appreciate that now, but like growing up, you know,
Speaker 3: I wanted the TV dinners with the compartments, you know,
Speaker 3: and the little apple pie in the corner. And but yeah,
Speaker 3: my father took us out for dinner every Friday because
Speaker 3: my mother worked late. She was working in retail. But
Speaker 3: my father let us choose the restaurant. And by restaurant,
Speaker 3: I mean McDonald's or Denny's or the pizzeria or A
Speaker 3: and W you know, fast food. And so that was
Speaker 3: a big deal because we were very spoiled with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and fresh.
Speaker 3: We had homemade pasta Wednesdays and Sundays. We had roast
Speaker 3: beef once a week. We would have steak or barbecue
Speaker 3: once a week. My father really spent a lot of money,
Speaker 3: I think on food because he didn't have much growing up.
Speaker 3: They ate like a chicken or a rabbit once a week.
Speaker 2: This is what until he was sixteen, until came to America. Yeah,
Speaker 2: until he got.
Speaker 3: A good job at General Motors. And the food went
Speaker 3: on the table family style.
Speaker 2: How many if you were there, you me and two brothers,
Speaker 2: two brothers.
Speaker 3: And he would serve us and he would put like
Speaker 3: this mound on your plate and you had to eat
Speaker 3: it all. And for him, the most important thing was
Speaker 3: you weren't hungry. That you were nourished that you ate.
Speaker 3: Everybody had a garden, and what they produced in these
Speaker 3: gardens was unbelievable. Tell me about everything like tomatoes and
Speaker 3: cucumbers and peppers and different like ridico and and then
Speaker 3: there were the fruit trees, and then there was like basil,
Speaker 3: all the herbs, you name it, onions, and it was
Speaker 3: just all there.
Speaker 2: And so you had your own garden full of.
Speaker 3: Everybody had the whole backyard was a garden, but shared
Speaker 3: what the other one didn't have. And it's not like
Speaker 3: we had a swimming pool or we didn't play in
Speaker 3: our backyards. We played on the street or parking lot.
Speaker 2: Did they bring the seeds? Do you think for Italy?
Speaker 5: I have?
Speaker 2: The seeds are a whole thing.
Speaker 3: The seeds was like a network and whoever had like
Speaker 3: the best tomatoes that year would do the seeds and
Speaker 3: hand them out. And it's so funny. Now you see
Speaker 3: all these heirloom tomatoes and I'm like, but those are
Speaker 3: the tomatoes I grew up with, Like none of them
Speaker 3: were nice little round tomatoes. And then the fruit trees.
Speaker 3: And my father he had a green thumb and he
Speaker 3: would graft.
Speaker 2: He would do these.
Speaker 3: Sensational things like the apricot tree had plums on it
Speaker 3: and the red apple tree had a branch with yellow apples.
Speaker 3: And he would graft and it would be it would
Speaker 3: just be incredible, and then he would make his gropas.
Speaker 2: So do you think that then he would go work
Speaker 2: at general motives? Do you think that in his real
Speaker 2: passion would have been to have been a farmer or
Speaker 2: to have done this whole day? Absolutely? Yeah. Well, he
Speaker 2: grew up.
Speaker 3: He didn't get an education because he had to work
Speaker 3: the land. And I know he had a donkey and
Speaker 3: whenever he referred to Italy he referred to it as
Speaker 3: the good old days. I think that would have been
Speaker 3: what he would have loved to have done, because he
Speaker 3: was so good at it.
Speaker 2: When you left, because you went to work quite at
Speaker 2: an early age, I was eighteen almost nine, Oh you
Speaker 2: were What was that like, leaving this culture of food?
Speaker 2: What did you do? How did you eat? I think
Speaker 2: I ate really simple.
Speaker 3: I was in New York for about a month or so,
Speaker 3: and then they shipped me off off to Paris, who
Speaker 3: shipped you off the agency because I wasn't doing so
Speaker 3: well in New York. They said, maybe you'll be more
Speaker 3: successful at nineteen, and I was first in the Hotel
Speaker 3: sant Andre DA's art, but I got bed bugs there,
Speaker 3: so I went to the Hotel La Louisia and.
Speaker 2: My mom Louisiana. My mom found out our hotel, our
Speaker 2: hotel room in the Louisiana was being used during the day.
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding what any once came home and they
Speaker 2: would rent it out during the day. Oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we left.
Speaker 3: That was an upgrade for me. It was ten dollars
Speaker 3: more a night, and my mom had to approve that.
Speaker 3: And so I would go to the market Arrue la Boussi,
Speaker 3: and I would like get a baguet and a piece
Speaker 3: of breeze and a piece of fruit, and that's how
Speaker 3: I would eat on a budget.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we moved into the hotel Descend. You remember that
Speaker 2: one that was next door to a big step up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what year was that, Well, it was in seventy seventy three,
Speaker 2: maybe seventy two there in like eighty forty, Yeah, so
Speaker 2: that was later, so I'm sure, but I remember I
Speaker 2: said it was a pretty rough person. The best story
Speaker 2: I have about the hotel we stayed in, Renzo Piano
Speaker 2: came to visit me Richard and his partner. They were
Speaker 2: doing the Pompany Center. I was sick, so I was
Speaker 2: in bed. Sorenzo came up and talked to me until
Speaker 2: Richard came back. He was at dinner and we were
Speaker 2: just talking and you know, was sneezing, and then the
Speaker 2: phone rang and it was a concierge and he said, madam,
Speaker 2: your husband is on the way up. And I thought
Speaker 2: that was so cool. At the hotel, oh, they were
Speaker 2: mourning me because they thought that I was in bed
Speaker 2: with my lover.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: I thought that was in a cheap hotel. That was
Speaker 2: a pretty good service if I needed it, very good service.
Speaker 2: The River Cafe Cafe, our all day space and just
Speaker 2: steps away from the restaurant, is now open. In the
Speaker 2: morning an Italian breakfast with cornetti, ciambella and crostada from
Speaker 2: our pastry kitchen. In the afternoon, ice creamed coupes and
Speaker 2: River Cafe classic desserts. We have sharing plates Salumi, misti, mozzarella,
Speaker 2: brusquetto red and yellow peppers, Vitello, tonado and more. Come
Speaker 2: in the evening for cocktails with our resident pianist.
Speaker 4: In the bar.
Speaker 2: No need to book. See you here. Laverna Down is
Speaker 2: one of the great restaurants of the world, and Eric
Speaker 2: Repair is one of the most admired chefs in the world.
Speaker 2: We sat down together in New York to talk about
Speaker 2: his culinary education and his food memories of his child
Speaker 2: in the south of France.
Speaker 6: My two grandmothers inspired me a lot, and my mother
Speaker 6: was an amazing, amazing chef.
Speaker 2: I tell me because it was interesting. I always say
Speaker 2: that in all these interviews that we've done, the grandmother.
Speaker 6: The Italian one, was cooking very Italian soul food. She
Speaker 6: was cooking like great Italian, northern Italian food, and I
Speaker 6: loved it. And then my grandmother from Provence was doing
Speaker 6: the same with proven sal food as well, which is
Speaker 6: a little bit similar than Northern Italian, but as some
Speaker 6: sort of differences.
Speaker 2: I did the drive quite recently from Santa Margarita to
Speaker 2: Genoa to Nice and suddenly you were in Italy and
Speaker 2: now you're in France, and you know, the farinata which
Speaker 2: they do in Italy is the Italian version of the socca, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is in Nice. And what else do they cook?
Speaker 4: Like my grandmother in province.
Speaker 6: She was from the region of Avignon, so in Avignon,
Speaker 6: they're not close to the sea, they are obviously in land,
Speaker 6: and she would do like a baby leg of lamb roasted.
Speaker 6: And then my grandmother, the Italian grandmother, wouldn't do that, but.
Speaker 4: She would do.
Speaker 6: She would do alsobuco, for instance, my grandmother in Provence
Speaker 6: would do a cocoverain. My grandmother in Italy didn't know
Speaker 6: what cocoveraine was. And those were subtle differences, but they
Speaker 6: were important. My mother was obsessed with the chefs from
Speaker 6: nouvelle cuisine at the time, so the Michelle Gerard, the
Speaker 6: Paul Booquez, that generation. And at home she was cooking
Speaker 6: lunch and dinner, those elaborate meals with appetizer, main course
Speaker 6: cheese which she didn't cook, and dessert that were different
Speaker 6: from lunch to dinner, on a different pattern of tablecloth,
Speaker 6: different china. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Who would she be cooking for.
Speaker 6: She was cooking for myself, stepfather, and my sister when
Speaker 6: she was old enough to be.
Speaker 4: At the table with us, because she's much younger than me.
Speaker 2: She did this every day, every day.
Speaker 6: She would well, she was a business lady, so she
Speaker 6: was in fashion industry. She was importing the brand Courage Spain,
Speaker 6: Spain and n yes, and so she was very busy
Speaker 6: with the business. But she would wake up at five
Speaker 6: am to prepare the meal and then she would finish
Speaker 6: whatever needs to be finished, all the little details during lunchtime,
Speaker 6: and then same thing at night. And sometimes after the
Speaker 6: dinner she would start to cook for the like the desserts,
Speaker 6: like if she was doing I don't know about room,
Speaker 6: she would start to let the do you know rise
Speaker 6: and so on.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean it was amazing.
Speaker 2: But do you think she would have liked to have
Speaker 2: done that as a career.
Speaker 4: No, No, she was.
Speaker 6: She wanted to do it because for the art of
Speaker 6: doing it, for the love of doing it, and she
Speaker 6: wanted to feed the family.
Speaker 2: So you had this incredible life of having food that
Speaker 2: was cared you know, it was a priority in her
Speaker 2: day and your stepfather.
Speaker 4: And different styles too.
Speaker 2: Did you ever cook with her with my mom.
Speaker 6: Later in life, because on the beginning, they allow me
Speaker 6: to watch and eat anything I wanted, but they really
Speaker 6: didn't want me to touch anything. They were like, you're
Speaker 6: going to mess up the kitchen, don't touch it. So
Speaker 6: I was eating and just before I went to culinary school,
Speaker 6: my mom started to allow me to help her in
Speaker 6: the kitchen.
Speaker 2: She sounds amazing, and she's still cooking.
Speaker 6: She cooks for herself, and she sent me pictures sometimes
Speaker 6: and I'm like, oh my god, this is amazing. Like
Speaker 6: the other day she did the dog comfee and then
Speaker 6: you know she has I don't know, you call it
Speaker 6: those little for the for the bone, those little white.
Speaker 2: White things, yeah yeah, those white yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6: So she still has those kind of details, and I'm like,
Speaker 6: oh my god, how can you do that?
Speaker 2: How do you look back at the food of the
Speaker 2: nevelle cuisine, What do you think when you when you
Speaker 2: think of that food.
Speaker 6: Well, as you know, nouvelle cuisine at one point became
Speaker 6: really a bad world, and it became a caricature of.
Speaker 2: Big plates and food, and.
Speaker 6: I always have this image of like three string beans
Speaker 6: parallel to each other. But novelle cuisine on the beginning
Speaker 6: was a revolution. We were coming out of the era
Speaker 6: of escoffi. It was a different mindset where the sauce
Speaker 6: was not hiding anymore the flavors, but the sauce was
Speaker 6: enhancing the star of the plate, which was what were
Speaker 6: protein mostly or vegetable you decide. And also it was
Speaker 6: the first time that chefs were playing their food. Until then,
Speaker 6: the food was on platters and the wails were serving
Speaker 6: the food or the clients were serving themselves from the platter.
Speaker 6: But the first chef to say I'm playing my food
Speaker 6: in my plate was the Drug Row.
Speaker 2: So you grew up in a house where food was
Speaker 2: a priority, where your mother cooked, your grandmother's cooked. Tell
Speaker 2: us when about your journey to becoming a chef, from
Speaker 2: being a child that wasn't allowed in the kitchen to
Speaker 2: being I think a fifteen year old that started cooking.
Speaker 2: What happened at fifteen when you've decided to be well?
Speaker 6: At fifteen, I cannot go to school any longer because
Speaker 6: my grades are so bad. So I ended up in
Speaker 6: the principal office with mom and is explaining to her
Speaker 6: that I have to find out what they call a vocational.
Speaker 4: School or a career year.
Speaker 6: Was this that's nineteen eighty and I look sad, but
Speaker 6: I'm really happy because I want to go to culinary
Speaker 6: school and my grades were great on the first year.
Speaker 6: On the second year, same thing. I at my exam,
Speaker 6: which was after two years, I had to do a
Speaker 6: gulash and the rice pillaff with Langostin's in a source
Speaker 6: nine two yer and I did a good job because
Speaker 6: I graduated with honors. And then I was like, this
Speaker 6: is the beginning. So at seventeen years old, I write
Speaker 6: a letter to the eighteen three star Michelin restaurants in
Speaker 6: Friends because I was eighteen at a time, and nobody
Speaker 6: answered nobody. So then at one point I go back
Speaker 6: and I write to the two stars, and then Maxims
Speaker 6: sent me a letter saying we don't have a spot
Speaker 6: for you, and that's my only letter. And then three
Speaker 6: months later I received a letter from Latino Darjon and
Speaker 6: at the time they were three stars.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, and they were.
Speaker 6: Celebrating in nineteen eighty two their four hundred year anniversary. Anyway,
Speaker 6: I ended up at seventeen years old in Lato Arjon
Speaker 6: in Paris.
Speaker 2: Where did you stay?
Speaker 6: In a tiny hotel? And then I find finally a place.
Speaker 6: It took a couple of months to find a place.
Speaker 4: That was very very challenge. Seventeen in a kitchen like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was the culture of the kitchen.
Speaker 7: What was it like?
Speaker 6: Very old fashioned, A lot of abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse,
Speaker 6: and that was the culture in those kitchens at that time.
Speaker 6: And also I have to say I was the youngest
Speaker 6: in the kitchen and I was not necessarily the best.
Speaker 6: And they were patient, but at the same time they
Speaker 6: were very abusive and and as you probably know in France,
Speaker 6: it was a philosophy behind it. First of all, it
Speaker 6: made no sense to me, but they wanted to break
Speaker 6: you psychologically and rebuild you as a champion, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 4: I think it was.
Speaker 6: More an excuse to let the chef be abusive. And
Speaker 6: I have those tantrums and big aggressive and someone who's
Speaker 6: angry is it's not someone who's It's not a quality
Speaker 6: to be angry.
Speaker 4: Let's put it this way. So I learned. I learned
Speaker 4: the hard way.
Speaker 2: Do you think of giving up?
Speaker 4: Ever, No, I never thought of giving up.
Speaker 6: I was obviously at times down and not happy, but
Speaker 6: my vision of becoming the chef that I became was
Speaker 6: never compromised.
Speaker 2: Yeah, patient kept you, kept you going.
Speaker 6: It was, yes, But the ambition was not about being
Speaker 6: number one, being radied, or being The ambition was to
Speaker 6: cook great food and create an amazing experience. And it
Speaker 6: has always been my vision all my life.
Speaker 2: Stephen fry A memorable guest endured years of plan boarding
Speaker 2: school food craving sweets and treats. At Cambridge University, he
Speaker 2: joined the Footlights Student Review and was part of an
Speaker 2: acclaimed generation of actors including Rowan Atkinson, Hugh Laurie and
Speaker 2: Emma Thompson. After university, new opportunities opened up, acting, traveling
Speaker 2: and eating exciting food in foreign places.
Speaker 5: We went to Edinburgh. We won this new prize called
Speaker 5: the Perrier Award for Comedy, and this involved going to Australia.
Speaker 5: Well sort of it didn't. The prize didn't, but because
Speaker 5: we won it, an Australian entrepreneur called Michael Edgeley saw
Speaker 5: our show and then said, you guys want to come
Speaker 5: out to Australia. And that's where I learned to eat,
Speaker 5: because it was an absolute revelation. This is nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 5: starting in Sydney. Doyles, of course, the amazing seafood place.
Speaker 5: You walk along the dunes and come to this beautiful
Speaker 5: shack where the food is, where things you've never heard
Speaker 5: of like Barre Mundy and Morton Bay bugs and all
Speaker 5: these extraordinary seafood things.
Speaker 8: But also oysters.
Speaker 5: I mean, oyster is so plentiful and not oh my goodness,
Speaker 5: I'm having oysters. I must be in Bentley's or in
Speaker 5: you know some posh you know London restaurant that does oysters.
Speaker 5: But it was, yeah, I have some oysters, mane, I
Speaker 5: have mine, rock a Feller or Killpatrick, you know, these
Speaker 5: different ways of preparing them. Kill Patrick across a favored
Speaker 5: of mine because it involved was the saurce.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 5: So I became really obsessed with oysters and would have
Speaker 5: and they were cheap sometimes you could That's the point.
Speaker 5: I have some plump, half a dozen plump Pacific oysters
Speaker 5: not cooked, and then half a dozen cooked Mornay Rockefeller
Speaker 5: and Kilpatrick with the bacon to kill Patrick. Yeah, and
Speaker 5: there were cheapest, cheapest chips. As people say we were,
Speaker 5: we were like for two months and traveling everywhere all
Speaker 5: the big cities in some of the crazy little towns
Speaker 5: like Albury, Wodonga, eating fabulous food, cheaply and happily. And
Speaker 5: the whole day really was around the fact we'd finished
Speaker 5: the show and what restaurant we're going to and but
Speaker 5: when I got by doing them, I was wandering around.
Speaker 5: So we were doing a TV show and I was
Speaker 5: feeling lucky and flushed with cash relatively compared to being
Speaker 5: a student, but not very rich. And I was wondering
Speaker 5: to say, when I was getting lost, as you do,
Speaker 5: and before you understand that, what's the cross street?
Speaker 8: And you know?
Speaker 5: And so I was going down this street called Greek Street,
Speaker 5: and I saw an attractive looking restaurant and the restaurant
Speaker 5: was called Les Gargo the Snail. And I wandered in
Speaker 5: and this fabulous woman about three foot tall came up
Speaker 5: to me and said hello, dear. I said, oh, it
Speaker 5: was obviously very nervous. She said, you come with me,
Speaker 5: and she sat me down. You'll know who I'm talking about,
Speaker 5: Ellen Salvatina, this amazing woman, phenomenal, and she sat me
Speaker 5: down and I said, I'm not and she chose for me, somehow, brilliantly,
Speaker 5: things that were just cheap enough for me to be
Speaker 5: able to afford. And so from then on, the richer
Speaker 5: I got, the luckier I got, I would go there.
Speaker 5: And this was in the high days of Let's Cargo.
Speaker 5: We know Princess Diana would go and all these people.
Speaker 5: But I remember once, for example, I was having dinner
Speaker 5: there with Ronakins and my friend Rowan is the wonderful
Speaker 5: comic great and Rowan is the most wonderful person in
Speaker 5: the world. But he's not a late night figure at all.
Speaker 5: In those days, I quite was. So we'd had dinner
Speaker 5: and it was like half Ust nine and Ron said, right, well,
Speaker 5: I'll get a cab and go home. And I thought, oh, well,
Speaker 5: I'll do the same. So I ordered a cab. His
Speaker 5: cab came first, and I was just about to leave
Speaker 5: and Ellen said, could you go and cheer up up
Speaker 5: John hurt? He's just left his wife, and he said,
Speaker 5: was all very unhappy and he needs a bit of
Speaker 5: cheering up.
Speaker 2: He was eating alone.
Speaker 5: So I sat down and there was John. Had you
Speaker 5: know I had to sit down and every now and again,
Speaker 5: then said your CAB's still here. I said, oh, tell him,
Speaker 5: I'll be five minutes.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 5: We were getting home and the cab bill was two
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty pounds. And I saw John about a
Speaker 5: week later and said, I have told everyone I got
Speaker 5: hurt on Thursday night, and he said, well, I told
Speaker 5: everyone I got fried. I got to know him even
Speaker 5: better later because he moved to Norfolk.
Speaker 2: Was Europe at all an influence? Did you travel to
Speaker 2: France or Italy or did you do Greece? Was there
Speaker 2: any food experience from being in Europe?
Speaker 5: Just as I was really beginning to love food, I
Speaker 5: went with Rowan whom I mentioned. Ron Atkinson had bought
Speaker 5: a new Western Martin and I really think we should
Speaker 5: try this out, and so we booked ourselves an amazing holiday,
Speaker 5: going all the way down France through basically through as
Speaker 5: many three star, three Mechlin Star restaurants, so Mionaise outside
Speaker 5: Leon and Chappelle's restaurant, and then down to the MoU
Speaker 5: restaurants outside. Can you know in the column door which
Speaker 5: is not through star but it is one of the
Speaker 5: greatest restaurants in the world men, People who don't know.
Speaker 5: It's up from up from Cannes in the hills, and
Speaker 5: it's this beautiful, beautiful place. It's like your ideal image
Speaker 5: of a promenceal house with the tiles and everything else.
Speaker 5: But it has added to it these extraordinary pieces on
Speaker 5: the walls by Matisse and others and mirror and yeah,
Speaker 5: that's right, these extraordinary paintings because the original patron and
Speaker 5: his wife would allow the artists to give pictures instead
Speaker 5: of paying the bills. And it has since become, you know,
Speaker 5: one of the great restaurants of the world. Really it's
Speaker 5: atmosphere and for all its fame and uh, you know,
Speaker 5: they're not necessarily easy to get a table, especially during
Speaker 5: the Canned Film Festival or something. It is the friendliest,
Speaker 5: warmest place. It's really, you know, like all these good
Speaker 5: places there, you might think they're going to be frightening
Speaker 5: the River under the River Cafe, you won't find people
Speaker 5: looking snooterly at you at all. It's the opposite of
Speaker 5: good restaurant to have snootiness, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Gary Lineker is many things, an acclaimed sports broadcaster, one
Speaker 2: of the great heroes of football. One of his great
Speaker 2: joys is cooking for his family. Here he is talking
Speaker 2: about the culture of food within football.
Speaker 9: It's one of the great changes in football is the
Speaker 9: nutrition side of things absolute.
Speaker 8: I think it's a gradual change.
Speaker 9: I think understanding of what feeds the body, and more
Speaker 9: professional outlets to more money coming into the game so
Speaker 9: they could afford you know, clubs. Now, the staff around
Speaker 9: football clubs are extraordinary. When I played, you'd get you'd
Speaker 9: have a coach, a manager, a coach, maybe another one
Speaker 9: other coach, goalkeeping, coach, possibly you'll have a physio and
Speaker 9: they some clubs love a doctor.
Speaker 8: And that was about it.
Speaker 9: Now like there's there's there's probably are five people just
Speaker 9: do a nutrition alone. They'll have cooks every day cooking
Speaker 9: them food after training, in all those kinds of things.
Speaker 9: It's changed dramatically. When I was like, what you're doing
Speaker 9: for lunch, Well, we're going down the pub for.
Speaker 8: A pint and a pie before a game. Yeah well no,
Speaker 8: not before a game, after.
Speaker 9: Train, although al those some players, maybe some players maybe.
Speaker 2: Do you know what what what would be I mean
Speaker 2: for you as an athlete if you knew we had
Speaker 2: a game, what would you have for breakfast and what
Speaker 2: would you have lunch?
Speaker 9: Well, you wouldn't have lunch and breakfast probably a few
Speaker 9: playing at three o'clock, so you probably basically have like
Speaker 9: a brunch at eleven o'clock or stuff. I don't actually
Speaker 9: know what they do pretty much now because it used
Speaker 9: to be what you said, right, you need some carbs
Speaker 9: in you for the energy and stuff like that.
Speaker 8: But I think most of their diets is very healthy.
Speaker 9: If you look at football as they're all ripped now,
Speaker 9: like you know, all these abs everywhere. When I first
Speaker 9: started playing, we were told, whatever you do, don't don't
Speaker 9: do any upper body weight work because you're completely you know,
Speaker 9: you'll be all stiff and wooding on the pitch and
Speaker 9: you won't be as agile.
Speaker 8: Absolute complete nonsense.
Speaker 9: So you never saw players particularly kind of ripped and
Speaker 9: muscular in my day that you do now, because that's
Speaker 9: that was the thinking.
Speaker 2: I rarely talk about alcohol, you know, because this is
Speaker 2: mostly about food. But I was wondering about how do
Speaker 2: you combine discipline with pleasure? Because we've seen people like
Speaker 2: George Best. How do you combine being a twenty four
Speaker 2: year old with being somebody wanted to party, wanted to socialize,
Speaker 2: very handsome with being they are, and how do you
Speaker 2: combine that figure with pleasure.
Speaker 8: I wasn't there. I was never a big drinker. I
Speaker 8: didn't drink, I didn't go down.
Speaker 9: I wasn't one of those that went down the pub
Speaker 9: after training, unlike some. So I kind of looked after myself.
Speaker 9: I was very driven, very motivated, very ambitious to do better.
Speaker 9: So I tried to give myself the best chance. Yes,
Speaker 9: I'd like to night out with it with the best
Speaker 9: of them. But it's like most players, the vast majority
Speaker 9: of players understood that even then, you know, it's not
Speaker 9: really a great combination drinking loads of pipes and then
Speaker 9: playing in a couple of days time I didn't. Manager
Speaker 9: called John Wallace, so I was so terrified of that.
Speaker 9: He kind of stopped me doing any of that nonsense.
Speaker 2: And what about when you went to Barcelona?
Speaker 9: Arsona was fabulous. It was a great experience, a wonderful
Speaker 9: place to live.
Speaker 2: Was it the first experience in a foreign city or
Speaker 2: had you I'd.
Speaker 8: Been on holidays. I've been lots of holidays, but it
Speaker 8: was the first.
Speaker 9: You know, I didn't really contemplate going to live abroad,
Speaker 9: but then the opportunity came.
Speaker 2: You go by yourself.
Speaker 8: Got married just before we went.
Speaker 9: So I played the World Cup in eighty six in Mexico,
Speaker 9: came back, got married, went on honeymoon, went straight to
Speaker 9: Barcelona from.
Speaker 2: There three years. How did that affect your food and
Speaker 2: eating and all?
Speaker 8: I mean, I love the food there.
Speaker 2: Why did you love?
Speaker 8: I loved the fresh fish that was always available.
Speaker 9: I mean it's obviously you know you're living in a
Speaker 9: port there and some great restaurants. I loved tapas, I
Speaker 9: love pie, the beach. I mean we had an amazing lifestyle.
Speaker 8: We get up.
Speaker 9: I'd get up in the morning about nine something, go
Speaker 9: to the ground. We'd train for a you know, a
Speaker 9: couple of hours. By lunchtime you had done.
Speaker 8: Come home.
Speaker 9: We jump in the car, go to the beach club
Speaker 9: Castels at Fells.
Speaker 8: We'd have like a seafood and a pie here on
Speaker 8: the beach.
Speaker 9: We leave about five, get home about six o'clock, have
Speaker 9: a yester for two or three hours, and then go
Speaker 9: out for dinner, which you couldn't get in.
Speaker 8: A restaurant ten eleven.
Speaker 9: Twelve o'clock at night, because if you went to a
Speaker 9: restaurant in Barcelona back then, it's changed a bit. Now
Speaker 9: it's still late, but nothing like as nat as it
Speaker 9: used to be. If you went to a restaurant before
Speaker 9: ten o'clock, they'd either be empty or closed. But actually
Speaker 9: they what they do is they break up their sleep,
Speaker 9: so you then go home at one two o'clock in
Speaker 9: the morning and sleep for five six hours and then.
Speaker 2: It's totally different.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 8: It was totally different, but it was. It didn't take
Speaker 8: a long getting.
Speaker 2: Used to it didn't.
Speaker 8: It really does.
Speaker 2: Did you have kids at the.
Speaker 8: Time, No, even better? Good said we interested.
Speaker 2: And I once gave a party in London. We invited
Speaker 2: the mayor of Barcelona. He was in town and he said,
Speaker 2: I can't come for the piate, I'll come a little
Speaker 2: bit later. And so he didn't show up by you know,
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock, and so we thought, okay, it's not going
Speaker 2: and went to bed. At two thirty in the morning,
Speaker 2: the doorbell rang and he was like, expecting the party
Speaker 2: up here.
Speaker 8: I ran downstairs. So they just left.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a party, just it's a totally.
Speaker 9: Different It's like living with on a different time. Yeah,
Speaker 9: and it's only an hour different.
Speaker 2: But say, did you do it? What a game night then?
Speaker 2: So when you were when you were well.
Speaker 9: Sometimes the games sometimes you play kickoff will be like
Speaker 9: nine o'clock at night quite often, you know. And Sundays
Speaker 9: you used play at five o'clock. That was that was
Speaker 9: kind of their Saturday at three. So they often play
Speaker 9: on Sundays at five.
Speaker 2: Laura Dearn is a great actor and a great friend.
Speaker 2: She's a bold and brave spokesperson for women in the
Speaker 2: film industry. She cares about food and the politics of
Speaker 2: feeding people safely and sustainable. When Laura came to the
Speaker 2: River Cafe earlier this year, we talked about food and movies,
Speaker 2: working with the director David Lynch and the Southern food
Speaker 2: that her grandmother cooked for her.
Speaker 7: My mom being a single parent when my parents divorced
Speaker 7: and a working actress because of travel, my grandmother raised
Speaker 7: me when she was gone working, So a majority of
Speaker 7: my time was with my grandmother Mary, who's from Alabama,
Speaker 7: and she gave birth to my mom in Mississippi. And
Speaker 7: so the roots of my family are so tied to
Speaker 7: food and tradition in the South.
Speaker 2: Southern cooking is the region when we think about France
Speaker 2: and Italy and Britain having you know, the north of
Speaker 2: France has a very different cuisine from the south of France,
Speaker 2: and Piermonte has a very different cuisine from Sicily. And
Speaker 2: then you think about American food, do you think, well,
Speaker 2: there's a food of Vermont really different from the food
Speaker 2: of Ohio or but the food actually of the South
Speaker 2: has such a strong identity.
Speaker 7: So strong, and you what's beautiful is you watched the
Speaker 7: DNA of those traditions and where they came from, just
Speaker 7: like in the Great Lakes. You know, this a very
Speaker 7: Scandinavian focused American cuisine and the South, I mean, particularly
Speaker 7: in New Orleans. Obviously there's so much French influence, but
Speaker 7: there's also the influence of the American farmer. And what
Speaker 7: was incredible was in lower income families, the food was
Speaker 7: simpler and from the land that you had. But my
Speaker 7: grandmother was getting what she could from her fellow friends
Speaker 7: and farms locally.
Speaker 2: So it's did she move to LA to take care
Speaker 2: of you?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh she did. Yeah.
Speaker 7: So it was very based in broad beans, kidney beans, okra,
Speaker 7: collared greens, rice, and you know, that.
Speaker 1: Was sort of the staple of your meal.
Speaker 7: But when she was in the South, especially when they
Speaker 7: were on the farm, the major meal of the day
Speaker 7: was breakfast, which was so wild. They would have like
Speaker 7: really like an early morning breakfast and then go out
Speaker 7: and work in the fields and then come.
Speaker 1: Back and have this huge breakfast at like.
Speaker 7: Ten in the morning because they'd already been working since
Speaker 7: four am. And I remember as a little girl when
Speaker 7: I would go visit my grandfather in Mississippi, and at
Speaker 7: ten am, it was corn bread and eggs and bacon
Speaker 7: and grits and collars and a coconut cake and a
Speaker 7: cake over a cake for breakfast with your coffee.
Speaker 2: You know, would this be weekdays as well?
Speaker 1: Every day for them? Every day, you know?
Speaker 7: But the Los Angeles version is like Sunday breakfast was
Speaker 7: like a big.
Speaker 2: Did you was your father in the kitchen or never? Never?
Speaker 7: Although my mom just told me that when they were
Speaker 7: first together in New York, he would cook on Sundays
Speaker 7: for all the unemployed actors, you know, and do like
Speaker 7: a big pasta spaghetti and meatballs or lamb chops or
Speaker 7: some kind of Sunday meal to help feed the other actors,
Speaker 7: and whoever was working would feed everybody. My mom came
Speaker 7: to New York with twenty dollars in her pocket and
Speaker 7: a little cardboard suitcase to become an actress from a
Speaker 7: tiny town in Mississippi, knowing no one. And she said,
Speaker 7: you know, you used to go in and if you
Speaker 7: ordered a beer, they would suggest, you know, order a
Speaker 7: beer because it'll fill your stomach, and the bartender would
Speaker 7: give them bread and butter.
Speaker 2: But coming out of this family where your grandmother cooked
Speaker 2: for you, where your mother cared about food, was there
Speaker 2: a time when you went off on your own and
Speaker 2: suddenly there was not that comfort food.
Speaker 7: Or a million percent I mean I started acting at eleven,
Speaker 7: and I was on location by myself at sixteen on
Speaker 7: and working on movies meant eating on the run and
Speaker 7: eating poorly and eating in small towns everywhere, And so
Speaker 7: it became what is provided to small town America, which
Speaker 7: was fast food, eating tragic.
Speaker 1: This isn't what y're starting in the late seventies.
Speaker 7: And I only.
Speaker 1: Discovered the gift.
Speaker 7: Of the connection between eating beautifully and food becoming a
Speaker 7: part of my artistic experience in the last decade because
Speaker 7: of heroes like you.
Speaker 2: Would you think that you could work or act or
Speaker 2: do what you do better if you actually had healthy
Speaker 2: food on a film set, or do you think it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter?
Speaker 7: Well, there are heroes in this movement, and I mean
Speaker 7: in music, I am so impressed thanks to Maggie Billie
Speaker 7: Eilish's mom, who is working so hard in terms of
Speaker 7: how to feed crew on music productions and touring. And
Speaker 7: there is a new model that a lot of incredible
Speaker 7: companies that are looking at zero waste are looking at
Speaker 7: sustainable models for catering. It's shifting and so we're trying
Speaker 7: to figure out on film production how to do that
Speaker 7: more and more.
Speaker 2: What was it like with David Lynch, because you talk
Speaker 2: about him a lot and you've worked with him a lot.
Speaker 7: Food wise, it matters to him and sharing a meal
Speaker 7: matters to him. And from the first time I worked
Speaker 7: with him, which was on Blue Velvet, I was seventeen,
Speaker 7: and those meals are some of my favorite memories, which was,
Speaker 7: you know, at night we go and we eat together.
Speaker 7: We find a couple of chefs in that town that
Speaker 7: become friends.
Speaker 1: They know what we love and we learn.
Speaker 7: What they make, and at the end of the day
Speaker 7: we'd always have a meal together.
Speaker 2: What about food in movies when you do a food scene?
Speaker 2: Ow other food scenes that you remember.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the one I remember the most was on this
Speaker 7: experimental film Inland Empire that we made some of that
Speaker 7: movie literally just the two of us, and we shot
Speaker 7: several days.
Speaker 1: In Paris, you and David Lynch.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Inland Empire is this radical journey movie. But we
Speaker 7: did a scene in a hotel room in Paris and
Speaker 7: it was this very long monologue me on a phone
Speaker 7: call and we'd sit down for our cafe olet and
Speaker 7: he wanted his penischokola and he would write on a
Speaker 7: legal pad and I would sit there and he would
Speaker 7: look at me like a painter and just be writing
Speaker 7: this monologue. And then he'd give it to me and
Speaker 7: he's like, now while I have my panasha cola, you
Speaker 7: learn your monologue. And it's like seven pages, and so
Speaker 7: I'm like, you better eat slow, buddy.
Speaker 10: So then i'd try to learn it and do a
Speaker 10: probably poor job.
Speaker 8: But attempt.
Speaker 7: And then we'd go to the hotel room and he
Speaker 7: would do my makeup or I would do my makeup,
Speaker 7: or we'd work on it together, and then he would
Speaker 7: set up the shot and we'd shoot the scene. And
Speaker 7: we shot this monologue and he was happy with it,
Speaker 7: and I was so exciting.
Speaker 1: He was like, we got it.
Speaker 7: And so then I went and I sat next to
Speaker 7: the bed. There was this little chair and the side
Speaker 7: table and there were two perfect.
Speaker 1: Ladree maquaron which that.
Speaker 7: Hotel would have provided, and there was a pistachio one.
Speaker 7: So the green was so beautiful and they bit into
Speaker 7: it. It was so fresh. And then he said, okay, now
Speaker 7: we'll do the close up and he set up the
Speaker 7: shine and he goes, where's the macaron.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you mean?
Speaker 4: I ate it?
Speaker 1: He goes, you ate my props.
Speaker 10: So that's my biggest memory of food and working with
Speaker 10: David in a movie. I ate the prop and he
Speaker 10: was like, you have to go now to laderie and
Speaker 10: get a pistachio macaron I was.
Speaker 2: I was once in Mexico and I sat down and
Speaker 2: I was late for lunch, and there was the mayor
Speaker 2: of Mexico City, and I was so starving that I
Speaker 2: ate the crudy tay that was in the middle of
Speaker 2: the table. And the waiter came up and said, you
Speaker 2: just ate our floral arrangement, and I'd eaten somehow. I said,
Speaker 2: I need the floral arrangement, I think, and then guess
Speaker 2: what happened. My whole mouth went nam was part of
Speaker 2: that floral arrangement was some weird plant, and I thought, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die in this lunch with
Speaker 2: the mayor of Mexico because I ate the flower flower
Speaker 2: plant no called float something. Do you think about food
Speaker 2: a lot? Do you think what you're going to eat
Speaker 2: the next day? Or do you go to bed thinking, well,
Speaker 2: well I have when I wake up, or do you
Speaker 2: wake up and think what am I going to see?
Speaker 7: My son started cooking We've started having conversations that we
Speaker 7: never had before and challenging ourselves, you know, like how
Speaker 7: do we really make truly a great Cajun style red
Speaker 7: beans and rice? Because we talk about my grandmother and
Speaker 7: how i'd have red beans didn't, you know as a
Speaker 7: baby only Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is there a food that you would go to for comfort?
Speaker 7: It always was cobbler growing up.
Speaker 2: A certain fruit or just any cobbler.
Speaker 1: Maybe peaches pieces.
Speaker 7: That would be, you know, because of remembering my grandmother's
Speaker 7: love of it and her taste, the taste of peaches
Speaker 7: and like that idea of summer and the scent of them.
Speaker 7: But I think for me now, comfort is.
Speaker 1: Community.
Speaker 2: Let's go eat, eat all right, Thank you, thank.
Speaker 1: You, Oh my god, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: That's all for this season of Ruthie's Table four. We
Speaker 2: will be back in the autumn with new conversations, new
Speaker 2: recipes and memories to share. Until then, have a wonderful summer.
Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
Speaker 5: with Montclair