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Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.

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Speaker 2: Food Unlock so many memories, the kitchen you grew up in,

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Speaker 2: the first meal you cooked, celebrations with friends and family.

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Speaker 2: More than forty guests have joined me at Table four

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Speaker 2: this season, sharing recipes, cooking together and talking about the

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Speaker 2: importance of food in all of our lives. In this episode,

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Speaker 2: we will share some of those conversations, hearing from the

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Speaker 2: actors Stephen Fry and Laura Dern, former footballer Gary Lineker,

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Speaker 2: and the three star Michelin chef Eric Repair. But first

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Speaker 2: Linda Vangelista talking about her memories of working as a

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Speaker 2: model in the eighties, her love of cooking, and life

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Speaker 2: in Canada with her Italian family. We began with our

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Speaker 2: recipe for nyoki with slow cooked tomato sauce.

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Speaker 3: It's great to see something in writing, because I learned

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Speaker 3: to make nyoki with my grandmother, but it was never

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Speaker 3: written down, and it was a little bit of this

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Speaker 3: and this, many eggs depending how big they are, and

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Speaker 3: some potatoes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and some potatoes. That's how we learned to I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's a beautiful way to learn. She did she ever

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Speaker 2: write anything down? She couldn't write. Yeah, she didn't know

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Speaker 2: how to write. She didn't know how to write English.

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Speaker 2: She didn't know how to write it all. She didn't

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Speaker 2: know how to write it all. She was a peasant.

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Speaker 3: She was born in Italy, as was my father and

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Speaker 3: my mother and all my grandparents.

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Speaker 2: And do you speak Italian?

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Speaker 3: Very badly? I speak it, and my family speaks dialect.

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Speaker 3: I know you're friend and proper Italian, but at home

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Speaker 3: they speak dialect. My parents spoke English to us growing up,

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Speaker 3: and only when they were arguing did they speak to

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Speaker 3: each other in Italian. So I can tell you where

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Speaker 3: to go in Italian, but I can't ask you are

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Speaker 3: you having a nice.

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Speaker 2: Day or kind words. My husband, Richard and Zad's father

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Speaker 2: had Italian parents, and he had the same thing that

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Speaker 2: he heard spoken, a very similar story when there was

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Speaker 2: an argument, I think. And then when he did learn Italian,

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Speaker 2: a lot of it came back because he had kind

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Speaker 2: of grown up for it.

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Speaker 3: So this grandmother, she never did learn him to speak English.

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Speaker 3: And in our neighborhood it was quite Polish, some Ukrainians

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Speaker 3: and Italians.

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Speaker 2: Where was it? Where was then?

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Speaker 3: In Saint Catharine's, Ontario, Canada across the lake from Toronto

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Speaker 3: in Niagara Region, right near the border of the United States,

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Speaker 3: and my grandmother went to Italian mass shopped at the

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Speaker 3: Italian store, worked picking fruit on the farm with the

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Speaker 3: Italian ladies, so she didn't really need to speak English.

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Speaker 3: I remember how excited they all got that generation when

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Speaker 3: Canada went metric. I was about ten years old or so,

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Speaker 3: I approximately, and then they understood, oh, this is how

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Speaker 3: many grams of meat I'm buying, and so they were

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Speaker 3: very happy when that happened.

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Speaker 2: When did they leave. The family comes from between Naples

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Speaker 2: and Rome.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a town called Pinatado in Taramna which is

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Speaker 3: near Casino and Monte Casino, where the big battle World

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Speaker 3: War two took place. And my father would have come over.

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Speaker 3: And he was born in nineteen forty and I think

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Speaker 3: he came over nineteen fifty six. And my mother was

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Speaker 3: born in forty three and she came over in nineteen fifty.

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Speaker 2: And the grandmother that you were describing was that your

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Speaker 2: mother's mother.

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Speaker 3: That was my father's mother, but my mother's mother's kind

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Speaker 3: of the same.

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Speaker 2: And they all came they all eventually they were all.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and they came with the few belongings that they had.

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Speaker 3: And I have the two handmade hammered copper pots that

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Speaker 3: my one grandmother came over with and she would make

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Speaker 3: her Sunday you know, to mao sauce in and I

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Speaker 3: have them. They're like, there are precious belongings. There's no painting,

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Speaker 3: there's no paintings.

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Speaker 2: Yes, saw Sam is a memory and it is what

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Speaker 2: she cooked with, so bringing that with her was part

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Speaker 2: of her Why did they leave, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, they left in search of a better life. They

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Speaker 3: had lost everything. Well, they didn't have anything much. They

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Speaker 3: worked their land, so it's not like they had vocations and.

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Speaker 2: They just.

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Speaker 3: Went in search of a better life for their children.

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Speaker 2: In Canada rather than the United States.

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Speaker 3: Well, they were heading to the United States, but at

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Speaker 3: the time they closed their doors and then they were

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Speaker 3: not receiving any more immigrants. And somebody in the United

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Speaker 3: States found a sponsor for my grandfather in Canada and

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Speaker 3: the other one similar story. So yeah, one grandfather was

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Speaker 3: a prisoner of war. They were in the war. My

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Speaker 3: grandfather's My mom was born during the war forty three.

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Speaker 2: And she spoke Italian.

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Speaker 3: She speaks proper and dialect.

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Speaker 2: She speaks both when do you say dialect, you mean

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Speaker 2: the dialect of that region.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it gets even worse because then, you know,

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Speaker 3: it takes on a life of its own in Canada,

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Speaker 3: not quite like the way the Americans, they like totally

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Speaker 3: butchered the language. And I don't like the way they

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Speaker 3: cut off the ends of the words when they say mozzarella.

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Speaker 2: When they say mozzarell, that's Tony Soprano, remember Tony's in

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Speaker 2: watching the Sopranos. They would always call it mozzarell. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's and so your mother also, your mother had both

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Speaker 2: her mother and her mother in law correct with her. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And did they all cook together?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I think early on they did. And you know, my

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Speaker 3: mother is because she came over young, she got quite americanized,

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Speaker 3: and you know she she you know, she has an

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Speaker 3: education and she cooks with recipes she but she also

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Speaker 3: has all the recipes in her head like what she

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Speaker 3: grew up making.

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Speaker 2: Who is the best cook of all of them? Do

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Speaker 2: you think me? You good? Okay, We're gonna get to that.

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Speaker 2: I like your answer, Okay, So do you want to

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Speaker 2: read the recipe with tomato sauce ganaki?

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Speaker 3: I'm joking, Okay, yoki with tomato sauce, served six in

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Speaker 3: my family.

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Speaker 2: Three one, yeah, okay?

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Speaker 3: Two tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil. Two clothes of

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Speaker 3: garlic finally sliced. I would say a little, you can

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Speaker 3: add more?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay? Good?

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Speaker 3: Eight hundred grams of ten peeled plum tomatoes. One kilogram

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Speaker 3: of white flowery potatoes.

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Speaker 2: Imma will be happy that this is in grams, wouldn't she? Yes,

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Speaker 2: she would.

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Speaker 3: One hundred and thirty grams of double zero flour, one

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Speaker 3: large egg, lightly beaten, and ten basil leaves interesting.

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Speaker 2: Heat the olive.

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Speaker 3: Oil in a large frying pan over a medium heat.

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Speaker 3: Add the garlic and cook until soft. Add the tomatoes,

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Speaker 3: breaking them up, season well, and cook for thirty minutes

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Speaker 3: on low heat. Bring a large saucepan of salted water

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Speaker 3: to a boil and add the potatoes and cook until

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Speaker 3: they are easily pierced with a fork. Drain and peel

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Speaker 3: when they are cool enough to handle. Immediately put the

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Speaker 3: potatoes through a food milk and then sift the flour

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Speaker 3: over them, making a well in the center. Add the

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Speaker 3: beaten egg using your hands, quickly mixed to form a smooth,

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Speaker 3: soft dough. Do not overwork the dough or you will

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Speaker 3: make the nyoki too heavy. Divide the dough into four

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Speaker 3: using your hands, roll the dough into a sausage and

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Speaker 3: then cut into pieces. Cook the yoki until they rise

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Speaker 3: to the surface. Remove the yaki with a slotted spoon,

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Speaker 3: and then stir into the tomato sauce. Add the basil

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Speaker 3: and if you like grated potamigiano. Now we ran our

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Speaker 3: yoki along.

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Speaker 2: A four to get the ridges. You can do that.

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Speaker 2: We sometimes do ridges and sometimes we don't. I prefer without, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you prefer without. We were also talking today about yaki.

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Speaker 2: I was talken to Joseph Trevelli, one of my chefs.

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Speaker 2: He was saying, do you remember Ruthy, how the cook

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Speaker 2: in our house in Italy called Giovanna made yaki And

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Speaker 2: she said to us, when you form them them was

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Speaker 2: like you're doing a book, Like you're making a book

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Speaker 2: of the flower and the mixture. Because if you it

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Speaker 2: is really true that if you handle them too much,

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Speaker 2: they do get tough, and so you want to touch

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Speaker 2: the flower gets old, it gets overdeveloped, and the idea

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Speaker 2: that you want to make them as light and actually

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Speaker 2: I also used to say that what we do is

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Speaker 2: we'd make the potatoes and add a little bit of

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Speaker 2: flower and then put one in and then they'd fall apart.

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Speaker 2: And then you would add a little bit of flower,

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Speaker 2: and you would do it so gradually that then you

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Speaker 2: would know that you need that amount of flower for

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Speaker 2: them not to fall apart, but the least amount makes

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Speaker 2: them as light as you can.

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Speaker 3: And then once you've done them so many times, you

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Speaker 3: just know.

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Speaker 2: So let's go back to the beginning. You grew up

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Speaker 2: with an Italian grandmother's two, two grandfathers, two your parents.

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Speaker 2: What was food like growing up in the Evangelista household.

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Speaker 3: Well, I complained a lot because we always ate homemade

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Speaker 3: food and I wanted to have TV dinner or frozen

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Speaker 3: meals or something out of a can.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to close from Sears roebook. I was really oh,

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Speaker 2: my clothes were from Cyrus. I did a thing to

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Speaker 2: my mother, not that we had money, but why can't

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Speaker 2: we buy clothes out of a catalog?

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Speaker 3: That sounds so my clothes were from Sears and Woolworth.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, So it was a lot of homemade food

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Speaker 3: and I appreciate that now, but like growing up, you know,

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Speaker 3: I wanted the TV dinners with the compartments, you know,

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Speaker 3: and the little apple pie in the corner. And but yeah,

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Speaker 3: my father took us out for dinner every Friday because

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Speaker 3: my mother worked late. She was working in retail. But

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Speaker 3: my father let us choose the restaurant. And by restaurant,

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Speaker 3: I mean McDonald's or Denny's or the pizzeria or A

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Speaker 3: and W you know, fast food. And so that was

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Speaker 3: a big deal because we were very spoiled with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and fresh.

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Speaker 3: We had homemade pasta Wednesdays and Sundays. We had roast

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Speaker 3: beef once a week. We would have steak or barbecue

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Speaker 3: once a week. My father really spent a lot of money,

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Speaker 3: I think on food because he didn't have much growing up.

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Speaker 3: They ate like a chicken or a rabbit once a week.

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Speaker 2: This is what until he was sixteen, until came to America. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: until he got.

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Speaker 3: A good job at General Motors. And the food went

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Speaker 3: on the table family style.

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Speaker 2: How many if you were there, you me and two brothers,

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Speaker 2: two brothers.

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Speaker 3: And he would serve us and he would put like

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Speaker 3: this mound on your plate and you had to eat

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Speaker 3: it all. And for him, the most important thing was

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Speaker 3: you weren't hungry. That you were nourished that you ate.

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Speaker 3: Everybody had a garden, and what they produced in these

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Speaker 3: gardens was unbelievable. Tell me about everything like tomatoes and

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Speaker 3: cucumbers and peppers and different like ridico and and then

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Speaker 3: there were the fruit trees, and then there was like basil,

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Speaker 3: all the herbs, you name it, onions, and it was

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Speaker 3: just all there.

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Speaker 2: And so you had your own garden full of.

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Speaker 3: Everybody had the whole backyard was a garden, but shared

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Speaker 3: what the other one didn't have. And it's not like

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Speaker 3: we had a swimming pool or we didn't play in

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Speaker 3: our backyards. We played on the street or parking lot.

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Speaker 2: Did they bring the seeds? Do you think for Italy?

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Speaker 5: I have?

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Speaker 2: The seeds are a whole thing.

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Speaker 3: The seeds was like a network and whoever had like

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Speaker 3: the best tomatoes that year would do the seeds and

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Speaker 3: hand them out. And it's so funny. Now you see

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Speaker 3: all these heirloom tomatoes and I'm like, but those are

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Speaker 3: the tomatoes I grew up with, Like none of them

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Speaker 3: were nice little round tomatoes. And then the fruit trees.

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Speaker 3: And my father he had a green thumb and he

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Speaker 3: would graft.

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Speaker 2: He would do these.

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Speaker 3: Sensational things like the apricot tree had plums on it

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Speaker 3: and the red apple tree had a branch with yellow apples.

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Speaker 3: And he would graft and it would be it would

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Speaker 3: just be incredible, and then he would make his gropas.

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Speaker 2: So do you think that then he would go work

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Speaker 2: at general motives? Do you think that in his real

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Speaker 2: passion would have been to have been a farmer or

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Speaker 2: to have done this whole day? Absolutely? Yeah. Well, he

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Speaker 2: grew up.

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Speaker 3: He didn't get an education because he had to work

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Speaker 3: the land. And I know he had a donkey and

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Speaker 3: whenever he referred to Italy he referred to it as

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Speaker 3: the good old days. I think that would have been

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Speaker 3: what he would have loved to have done, because he

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Speaker 3: was so good at it.

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Speaker 2: When you left, because you went to work quite at

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Speaker 2: an early age, I was eighteen almost nine, Oh you

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Speaker 2: were What was that like, leaving this culture of food?

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Speaker 2: What did you do? How did you eat? I think

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Speaker 2: I ate really simple.

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Speaker 3: I was in New York for about a month or so,

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Speaker 3: and then they shipped me off off to Paris, who

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Speaker 3: shipped you off the agency because I wasn't doing so

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Speaker 3: well in New York. They said, maybe you'll be more

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Speaker 3: successful at nineteen, and I was first in the Hotel

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Speaker 3: sant Andre DA's art, but I got bed bugs there,

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Speaker 3: so I went to the Hotel La Louisia and.

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Speaker 2: My mom Louisiana. My mom found out our hotel, our

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Speaker 2: hotel room in the Louisiana was being used during the day.

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Speaker 2: I'm not kidding what any once came home and they

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Speaker 2: would rent it out during the day. Oh my god. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we left.

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Speaker 3: That was an upgrade for me. It was ten dollars

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Speaker 3: more a night, and my mom had to approve that.

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Speaker 3: And so I would go to the market Arrue la Boussi,

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Speaker 3: and I would like get a baguet and a piece

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Speaker 3: of breeze and a piece of fruit, and that's how

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Speaker 3: I would eat on a budget.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we moved into the hotel Descend. You remember that

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Speaker 2: one that was next door to a big step up. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what year was that, Well, it was in seventy seventy three,

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Speaker 2: maybe seventy two there in like eighty forty, Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: that was later, so I'm sure, but I remember I

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Speaker 2: said it was a pretty rough person. The best story

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Speaker 2: I have about the hotel we stayed in, Renzo Piano

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Speaker 2: came to visit me Richard and his partner. They were

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Speaker 2: doing the Pompany Center. I was sick, so I was

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Speaker 2: in bed. Sorenzo came up and talked to me until

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Speaker 2: Richard came back. He was at dinner and we were

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Speaker 2: just talking and you know, was sneezing, and then the

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Speaker 2: phone rang and it was a concierge and he said, madam,

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Speaker 2: your husband is on the way up. And I thought

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Speaker 2: that was so cool. At the hotel, oh, they were

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Speaker 2: mourning me because they thought that I was in bed

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Speaker 2: with my lover.

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Speaker 3: That's good.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was in a cheap hotel. That was

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Speaker 2: a pretty good service if I needed it, very good service.

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Speaker 2: The River Cafe Cafe, our all day space and just

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Speaker 2: steps away from the restaurant, is now open. In the

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Speaker 2: morning an Italian breakfast with cornetti, ciambella and crostada from

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Speaker 2: our pastry kitchen. In the afternoon, ice creamed coupes and

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Speaker 2: River Cafe classic desserts. We have sharing plates Salumi, misti, mozzarella,

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Speaker 2: brusquetto red and yellow peppers, Vitello, tonado and more. Come

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Speaker 2: in the evening for cocktails with our resident pianist.

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Speaker 4: In the bar.

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Speaker 2: No need to book. See you here. Laverna Down is

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Speaker 2: one of the great restaurants of the world, and Eric

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Speaker 2: Repair is one of the most admired chefs in the world.

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Speaker 2: We sat down together in New York to talk about

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Speaker 2: his culinary education and his food memories of his child

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Speaker 2: in the south of France.

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Speaker 6: My two grandmothers inspired me a lot, and my mother

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Speaker 6: was an amazing, amazing chef.

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Speaker 2: I tell me because it was interesting. I always say

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Speaker 2: that in all these interviews that we've done, the grandmother.

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Speaker 6: The Italian one, was cooking very Italian soul food. She

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Speaker 6: was cooking like great Italian, northern Italian food, and I

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Speaker 6: loved it. And then my grandmother from Provence was doing

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Speaker 6: the same with proven sal food as well, which is

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Speaker 6: a little bit similar than Northern Italian, but as some

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Speaker 6: sort of differences.

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Speaker 2: I did the drive quite recently from Santa Margarita to

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Speaker 2: Genoa to Nice and suddenly you were in Italy and

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Speaker 2: now you're in France, and you know, the farinata which

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Speaker 2: they do in Italy is the Italian version of the socca, yeah,

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Speaker 2: which is in Nice. And what else do they cook?

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Speaker 4: Like my grandmother in province.

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Speaker 6: She was from the region of Avignon, so in Avignon,

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Speaker 6: they're not close to the sea, they are obviously in land,

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Speaker 6: and she would do like a baby leg of lamb roasted.

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Speaker 6: And then my grandmother, the Italian grandmother, wouldn't do that, but.

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Speaker 4: She would do.

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Speaker 6: She would do alsobuco, for instance, my grandmother in Provence

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Speaker 6: would do a cocoverain. My grandmother in Italy didn't know

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Speaker 6: what cocoveraine was. And those were subtle differences, but they

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Speaker 6: were important. My mother was obsessed with the chefs from

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Speaker 6: nouvelle cuisine at the time, so the Michelle Gerard, the

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Speaker 6: Paul Booquez, that generation. And at home she was cooking

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Speaker 6: lunch and dinner, those elaborate meals with appetizer, main course

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Speaker 6: cheese which she didn't cook, and dessert that were different

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Speaker 6: from lunch to dinner, on a different pattern of tablecloth,

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Speaker 6: different china. It was unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Who would she be cooking for.

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Speaker 6: She was cooking for myself, stepfather, and my sister when

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Speaker 6: she was old enough to be.

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Speaker 4: At the table with us, because she's much younger than me.

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Speaker 2: She did this every day, every day.

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Speaker 6: She would well, she was a business lady, so she

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Speaker 6: was in fashion industry. She was importing the brand Courage Spain,

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Speaker 6: Spain and n yes, and so she was very busy

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Speaker 6: with the business. But she would wake up at five

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Speaker 6: am to prepare the meal and then she would finish

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Speaker 6: whatever needs to be finished, all the little details during lunchtime,

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Speaker 6: and then same thing at night. And sometimes after the

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Speaker 6: dinner she would start to cook for the like the desserts,

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Speaker 6: like if she was doing I don't know about room,

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Speaker 6: she would start to let the do you know rise

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Speaker 6: and so on.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean it was amazing.

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Speaker 2: But do you think she would have liked to have

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Speaker 2: done that as a career.

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Speaker 4: No, No, she was.

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Speaker 6: She wanted to do it because for the art of

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Speaker 6: doing it, for the love of doing it, and she

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Speaker 6: wanted to feed the family.

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Speaker 2: So you had this incredible life of having food that

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Speaker 2: was cared you know, it was a priority in her

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Speaker 2: day and your stepfather.

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Speaker 4: And different styles too.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever cook with her with my mom.

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Speaker 6: Later in life, because on the beginning, they allow me

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Speaker 6: to watch and eat anything I wanted, but they really

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Speaker 6: didn't want me to touch anything. They were like, you're

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Speaker 6: going to mess up the kitchen, don't touch it. So

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Speaker 6: I was eating and just before I went to culinary school,

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Speaker 6: my mom started to allow me to help her in

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Speaker 6: the kitchen.

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Speaker 2: She sounds amazing, and she's still cooking.

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Speaker 6: She cooks for herself, and she sent me pictures sometimes

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Speaker 6: and I'm like, oh my god, this is amazing. Like

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Speaker 6: the other day she did the dog comfee and then

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Speaker 6: you know she has I don't know, you call it

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Speaker 6: those little for the for the bone, those little white.

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Speaker 2: White things, yeah yeah, those white yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So she still has those kind of details, and I'm like,

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Speaker 6: oh my god, how can you do that?

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Speaker 2: How do you look back at the food of the

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Speaker 2: nevelle cuisine, What do you think when you when you

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Speaker 2: think of that food.

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Speaker 6: Well, as you know, nouvelle cuisine at one point became

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Speaker 6: really a bad world, and it became a caricature of.

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Speaker 2: Big plates and food, and.

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Speaker 6: I always have this image of like three string beans

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Speaker 6: parallel to each other. But novelle cuisine on the beginning

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Speaker 6: was a revolution. We were coming out of the era

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Speaker 6: of escoffi. It was a different mindset where the sauce

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Speaker 6: was not hiding anymore the flavors, but the sauce was

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Speaker 6: enhancing the star of the plate, which was what were

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Speaker 6: protein mostly or vegetable you decide. And also it was

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Speaker 6: the first time that chefs were playing their food. Until then,

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Speaker 6: the food was on platters and the wails were serving

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Speaker 6: the food or the clients were serving themselves from the platter.

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Speaker 6: But the first chef to say I'm playing my food

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Speaker 6: in my plate was the Drug Row.

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Speaker 2: So you grew up in a house where food was

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Speaker 2: a priority, where your mother cooked, your grandmother's cooked. Tell

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Speaker 2: us when about your journey to becoming a chef, from

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Speaker 2: being a child that wasn't allowed in the kitchen to

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Speaker 2: being I think a fifteen year old that started cooking.

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Speaker 2: What happened at fifteen when you've decided to be well?

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Speaker 6: At fifteen, I cannot go to school any longer because

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Speaker 6: my grades are so bad. So I ended up in

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Speaker 6: the principal office with mom and is explaining to her

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Speaker 6: that I have to find out what they call a vocational.

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Speaker 4: School or a career year.

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Speaker 6: Was this that's nineteen eighty and I look sad, but

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Speaker 6: I'm really happy because I want to go to culinary

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Speaker 6: school and my grades were great on the first year.

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Speaker 6: On the second year, same thing. I at my exam,

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Speaker 6: which was after two years, I had to do a

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Speaker 6: gulash and the rice pillaff with Langostin's in a source

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Speaker 6: nine two yer and I did a good job because

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Speaker 6: I graduated with honors. And then I was like, this

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Speaker 6: is the beginning. So at seventeen years old, I write

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Speaker 6: a letter to the eighteen three star Michelin restaurants in

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Speaker 6: Friends because I was eighteen at a time, and nobody

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Speaker 6: answered nobody. So then at one point I go back

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Speaker 6: and I write to the two stars, and then Maxims

419
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Speaker 6: sent me a letter saying we don't have a spot

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Speaker 6: for you, and that's my only letter. And then three

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Speaker 6: months later I received a letter from Latino Darjon and

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Speaker 6: at the time they were three stars.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, and they were.

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Speaker 6: Celebrating in nineteen eighty two their four hundred year anniversary. Anyway,

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Speaker 6: I ended up at seventeen years old in Lato Arjon

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Speaker 6: in Paris.

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Speaker 2: Where did you stay?

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Speaker 6: In a tiny hotel? And then I find finally a place.

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Speaker 6: It took a couple of months to find a place.

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Speaker 4: That was very very challenge. Seventeen in a kitchen like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was the culture of the kitchen.

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Speaker 7: What was it like?

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Speaker 6: Very old fashioned, A lot of abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse,

434
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Speaker 6: and that was the culture in those kitchens at that time.

435
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Speaker 6: And also I have to say I was the youngest

436
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Speaker 6: in the kitchen and I was not necessarily the best.

437
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Speaker 6: And they were patient, but at the same time they

438
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Speaker 6: were very abusive and and as you probably know in France,

439
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 6: it was a philosophy behind it. First of all, it

440
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Speaker 6: made no sense to me, but they wanted to break

441
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Speaker 6: you psychologically and rebuild you as a champion, which is ridiculous.

442
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 4: I think it was.

443
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 6: More an excuse to let the chef be abusive. And

444
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 6: I have those tantrums and big aggressive and someone who's

445
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 6: angry is it's not someone who's It's not a quality

446
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 6: to be angry.

447
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 4: Let's put it this way. So I learned. I learned

448
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 4: the hard way.

449
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: Do you think of giving up?

450
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 4: Ever, No, I never thought of giving up.

451
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 6: I was obviously at times down and not happy, but

452
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 6: my vision of becoming the chef that I became was

453
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 6: never compromised.

454
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, patient kept you, kept you going.

455
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 6: It was, yes, But the ambition was not about being

456
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 6: number one, being radied, or being The ambition was to

457
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 6: cook great food and create an amazing experience. And it

458
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 6: has always been my vision all my life.

459
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: Stephen fry A memorable guest endured years of plan boarding

460
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 2: school food craving sweets and treats. At Cambridge University, he

461
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 2: joined the Footlights Student Review and was part of an

462
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: acclaimed generation of actors including Rowan Atkinson, Hugh Laurie and

463
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: Emma Thompson. After university, new opportunities opened up, acting, traveling

464
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 2: and eating exciting food in foreign places.

465
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 5: We went to Edinburgh. We won this new prize called

466
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 5: the Perrier Award for Comedy, and this involved going to Australia.

467
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 5: Well sort of it didn't. The prize didn't, but because

468
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 5: we won it, an Australian entrepreneur called Michael Edgeley saw

469
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 5: our show and then said, you guys want to come

470
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 5: out to Australia. And that's where I learned to eat,

471
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 5: because it was an absolute revelation. This is nineteen eighty one,

472
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: starting in Sydney. Doyles, of course, the amazing seafood place.

473
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 5: You walk along the dunes and come to this beautiful

474
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 5: shack where the food is, where things you've never heard

475
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 5: of like Barre Mundy and Morton Bay bugs and all

476
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 5: these extraordinary seafood things.

477
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 8: But also oysters.

478
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 5: I mean, oyster is so plentiful and not oh my goodness,

479
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 5: I'm having oysters. I must be in Bentley's or in

480
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 5: you know some posh you know London restaurant that does oysters.

481
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 5: But it was, yeah, I have some oysters, mane, I

482
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 5: have mine, rock a Feller or Killpatrick, you know, these

483
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 5: different ways of preparing them. Kill Patrick across a favored

484
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 5: of mine because it involved was the saurce.

485
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 4: Yes.

486
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 5: So I became really obsessed with oysters and would have

487
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: and they were cheap sometimes you could That's the point.

488
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 5: I have some plump, half a dozen plump Pacific oysters

489
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 5: not cooked, and then half a dozen cooked Mornay Rockefeller

490
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 5: and Kilpatrick with the bacon to kill Patrick. Yeah, and

491
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 5: there were cheapest, cheapest chips. As people say we were,

492
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 5: we were like for two months and traveling everywhere all

493
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 5: the big cities in some of the crazy little towns

494
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 5: like Albury, Wodonga, eating fabulous food, cheaply and happily. And

495
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 5: the whole day really was around the fact we'd finished

496
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 5: the show and what restaurant we're going to and but

497
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 5: when I got by doing them, I was wandering around.

498
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 5: So we were doing a TV show and I was

499
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: feeling lucky and flushed with cash relatively compared to being

500
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 5: a student, but not very rich. And I was wondering

501
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 5: to say, when I was getting lost, as you do,

502
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 5: and before you understand that, what's the cross street?

503
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 8: And you know?

504
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 5: And so I was going down this street called Greek Street,

505
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 5: and I saw an attractive looking restaurant and the restaurant

506
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 5: was called Les Gargo the Snail. And I wandered in

507
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 5: and this fabulous woman about three foot tall came up

508
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: to me and said hello, dear. I said, oh, it

509
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 5: was obviously very nervous. She said, you come with me,

510
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 5: and she sat me down. You'll know who I'm talking about,

511
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 5: Ellen Salvatina, this amazing woman, phenomenal, and she sat me

512
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 5: down and I said, I'm not and she chose for me, somehow, brilliantly,

513
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 5: things that were just cheap enough for me to be

514
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 5: able to afford. And so from then on, the richer

515
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 5: I got, the luckier I got, I would go there.

516
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 5: And this was in the high days of Let's Cargo.

517
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 5: We know Princess Diana would go and all these people.

518
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 5: But I remember once, for example, I was having dinner

519
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 5: there with Ronakins and my friend Rowan is the wonderful

520
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 5: comic great and Rowan is the most wonderful person in

521
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: the world. But he's not a late night figure at all.

522
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 5: In those days, I quite was. So we'd had dinner

523
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 5: and it was like half Ust nine and Ron said, right, well,

524
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 5: I'll get a cab and go home. And I thought, oh, well,

525
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 5: I'll do the same. So I ordered a cab. His

526
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 5: cab came first, and I was just about to leave

527
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 5: and Ellen said, could you go and cheer up up

528
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 5: John hurt? He's just left his wife, and he said,

529
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 5: was all very unhappy and he needs a bit of

530
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 5: cheering up.

531
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: He was eating alone.

532
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 5: So I sat down and there was John. Had you

533
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 5: know I had to sit down and every now and again,

534
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 5: then said your CAB's still here. I said, oh, tell him,

535
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 5: I'll be five minutes.

536
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 7: Yeah.

537
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 5: We were getting home and the cab bill was two

538
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty pounds. And I saw John about a

539
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 5: week later and said, I have told everyone I got

540
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 5: hurt on Thursday night, and he said, well, I told

541
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 5: everyone I got fried. I got to know him even

542
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 5: better later because he moved to Norfolk.

543
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: Was Europe at all an influence? Did you travel to

544
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: France or Italy or did you do Greece? Was there

545
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: any food experience from being in Europe?

546
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 5: Just as I was really beginning to love food, I

547
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 5: went with Rowan whom I mentioned. Ron Atkinson had bought

548
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 5: a new Western Martin and I really think we should

549
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 5: try this out, and so we booked ourselves an amazing holiday,

550
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 5: going all the way down France through basically through as

551
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 5: many three star, three Mechlin Star restaurants, so Mionaise outside

552
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 5: Leon and Chappelle's restaurant, and then down to the MoU

553
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 5: restaurants outside. Can you know in the column door which

554
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 5: is not through star but it is one of the

555
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 5: greatest restaurants in the world men, People who don't know.

556
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 5: It's up from up from Cannes in the hills, and

557
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 5: it's this beautiful, beautiful place. It's like your ideal image

558
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 5: of a promenceal house with the tiles and everything else.

559
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 5: But it has added to it these extraordinary pieces on

560
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 5: the walls by Matisse and others and mirror and yeah,

561
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 5: that's right, these extraordinary paintings because the original patron and

562
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 5: his wife would allow the artists to give pictures instead

563
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 5: of paying the bills. And it has since become, you know,

564
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 5: one of the great restaurants of the world. Really it's

565
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 5: atmosphere and for all its fame and uh, you know,

566
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 5: they're not necessarily easy to get a table, especially during

567
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 5: the Canned Film Festival or something. It is the friendliest,

568
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 5: warmest place. It's really, you know, like all these good

569
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 5: places there, you might think they're going to be frightening

570
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 5: the River under the River Cafe, you won't find people

571
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 5: looking snooterly at you at all. It's the opposite of

572
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 5: good restaurant to have snootiness, isn't it.

573
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: Gary Lineker is many things, an acclaimed sports broadcaster, one

574
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: of the great heroes of football. One of his great

575
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: joys is cooking for his family. Here he is talking

576
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: about the culture of food within football.

577
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 9: It's one of the great changes in football is the

578
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 9: nutrition side of things absolute.

579
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 8: I think it's a gradual change.

580
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 9: I think understanding of what feeds the body, and more

581
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 9: professional outlets to more money coming into the game so

582
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 9: they could afford you know, clubs. Now, the staff around

583
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 9: football clubs are extraordinary. When I played, you'd get you'd

584
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 9: have a coach, a manager, a coach, maybe another one

585
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 9: other coach, goalkeeping, coach, possibly you'll have a physio and

586
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 9: they some clubs love a doctor.

587
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 8: And that was about it.

588
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 9: Now like there's there's there's probably are five people just

589
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 9: do a nutrition alone. They'll have cooks every day cooking

590
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 9: them food after training, in all those kinds of things.

591
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 9: It's changed dramatically. When I was like, what you're doing

592
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 9: for lunch, Well, we're going down the pub for.

593
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 8: A pint and a pie before a game. Yeah well no,

594
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 8: not before a game, after.

595
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 9: Train, although al those some players, maybe some players maybe.

596
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 2: Do you know what what what would be I mean

597
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: for you as an athlete if you knew we had

598
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: a game, what would you have for breakfast and what

599
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 2: would you have lunch?

600
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 9: Well, you wouldn't have lunch and breakfast probably a few

601
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 9: playing at three o'clock, so you probably basically have like

602
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 9: a brunch at eleven o'clock or stuff. I don't actually

603
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 9: know what they do pretty much now because it used

604
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 9: to be what you said, right, you need some carbs

605
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 9: in you for the energy and stuff like that.

606
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 8: But I think most of their diets is very healthy.

607
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 9: If you look at football as they're all ripped now,

608
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 9: like you know, all these abs everywhere. When I first

609
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 9: started playing, we were told, whatever you do, don't don't

610
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 9: do any upper body weight work because you're completely you know,

611
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 9: you'll be all stiff and wooding on the pitch and

612
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 9: you won't be as agile.

613
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 8: Absolute complete nonsense.

614
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 9: So you never saw players particularly kind of ripped and

615
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 9: muscular in my day that you do now, because that's

616
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 9: that was the thinking.

617
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: I rarely talk about alcohol, you know, because this is

618
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: mostly about food. But I was wondering about how do

619
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: you combine discipline with pleasure? Because we've seen people like

620
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: George Best. How do you combine being a twenty four

621
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: year old with being somebody wanted to party, wanted to socialize,

622
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: very handsome with being they are, and how do you

623
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 2: combine that figure with pleasure.

624
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 8: I wasn't there. I was never a big drinker. I

625
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 8: didn't drink, I didn't go down.

626
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 9: I wasn't one of those that went down the pub

627
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 9: after training, unlike some. So I kind of looked after myself.

628
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 9: I was very driven, very motivated, very ambitious to do better.

629
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 9: So I tried to give myself the best chance. Yes,

630
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 9: I'd like to night out with it with the best

631
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 9: of them. But it's like most players, the vast majority

632
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 9: of players understood that even then, you know, it's not

633
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 9: really a great combination drinking loads of pipes and then

634
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 9: playing in a couple of days time I didn't. Manager

635
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 9: called John Wallace, so I was so terrified of that.

636
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 9: He kind of stopped me doing any of that nonsense.

637
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 2: And what about when you went to Barcelona?

638
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 9: Arsona was fabulous. It was a great experience, a wonderful

639
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 9: place to live.

640
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: Was it the first experience in a foreign city or

641
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: had you I'd.

642
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 8: Been on holidays. I've been lots of holidays, but it

643
00:35:59,560 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 8: was the first.

644
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 9: You know, I didn't really contemplate going to live abroad,

645
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 9: but then the opportunity came.

646
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 2: You go by yourself.

647
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 8: Got married just before we went.

648
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 9: So I played the World Cup in eighty six in Mexico,

649
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 9: came back, got married, went on honeymoon, went straight to

650
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 9: Barcelona from.

651
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: There three years. How did that affect your food and

652
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: eating and all?

653
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 8: I mean, I love the food there.

654
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: Why did you love?

655
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 8: I loved the fresh fish that was always available.

656
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 9: I mean it's obviously you know you're living in a

657
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 9: port there and some great restaurants. I loved tapas, I

658
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 9: love pie, the beach. I mean we had an amazing lifestyle.

659
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 8: We get up.

660
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 9: I'd get up in the morning about nine something, go

661
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 9: to the ground. We'd train for a you know, a

662
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 9: couple of hours. By lunchtime you had done.

663
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 8: Come home.

664
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 9: We jump in the car, go to the beach club

665
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 9: Castels at Fells.

666
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 8: We'd have like a seafood and a pie here on

667
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 8: the beach.

668
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 9: We leave about five, get home about six o'clock, have

669
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 9: a yester for two or three hours, and then go

670
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 9: out for dinner, which you couldn't get in.

671
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 8: A restaurant ten eleven.

672
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 9: Twelve o'clock at night, because if you went to a

673
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 9: restaurant in Barcelona back then, it's changed a bit. Now

674
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 9: it's still late, but nothing like as nat as it

675
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 9: used to be. If you went to a restaurant before

676
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 9: ten o'clock, they'd either be empty or closed. But actually

677
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 9: they what they do is they break up their sleep,

678
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 9: so you then go home at one two o'clock in

679
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 9: the morning and sleep for five six hours and then.

680
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 2: It's totally different.

681
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 4: It was.

682
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 8: It was totally different, but it was. It didn't take

683
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 8: a long getting.

684
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: Used to it didn't.

685
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 8: It really does.

686
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: Did you have kids at the.

687
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 8: Time, No, even better? Good said we interested.

688
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: And I once gave a party in London. We invited

689
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: the mayor of Barcelona. He was in town and he said,

690
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: I can't come for the piate, I'll come a little

691
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: bit later. And so he didn't show up by you know,

692
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock, and so we thought, okay, it's not going

693
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: and went to bed. At two thirty in the morning,

694
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: the doorbell rang and he was like, expecting the party

695
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: up here.

696
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 8: I ran downstairs. So they just left.

697
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's a party, just it's a totally.

698
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 9: Different It's like living with on a different time. Yeah,

699
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 9: and it's only an hour different.

700
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: But say, did you do it? What a game night then?

701
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: So when you were when you were well.

702
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 9: Sometimes the games sometimes you play kickoff will be like

703
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 9: nine o'clock at night quite often, you know. And Sundays

704
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 9: you used play at five o'clock. That was that was

705
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 9: kind of their Saturday at three. So they often play

706
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 9: on Sundays at five.

707
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: Laura Dearn is a great actor and a great friend.

708
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: She's a bold and brave spokesperson for women in the

709
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: film industry. She cares about food and the politics of

710
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: feeding people safely and sustainable. When Laura came to the

711
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: River Cafe earlier this year, we talked about food and movies,

712
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: working with the director David Lynch and the Southern food

713
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 2: that her grandmother cooked for her.

714
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 7: My mom being a single parent when my parents divorced

715
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 7: and a working actress because of travel, my grandmother raised

716
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 7: me when she was gone working, So a majority of

717
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 7: my time was with my grandmother Mary, who's from Alabama,

718
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 7: and she gave birth to my mom in Mississippi. And

719
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 7: so the roots of my family are so tied to

720
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 7: food and tradition in the South.

721
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: Southern cooking is the region when we think about France

722
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: and Italy and Britain having you know, the north of

723
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: France has a very different cuisine from the south of France,

724
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: and Piermonte has a very different cuisine from Sicily. And

725
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 2: then you think about American food, do you think, well,

726
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: there's a food of Vermont really different from the food

727
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 2: of Ohio or but the food actually of the South

728
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: has such a strong identity.

729
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 7: So strong, and you what's beautiful is you watched the

730
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 7: DNA of those traditions and where they came from, just

731
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 7: like in the Great Lakes. You know, this a very

732
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 7: Scandinavian focused American cuisine and the South, I mean, particularly

733
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 7: in New Orleans. Obviously there's so much French influence, but

734
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 7: there's also the influence of the American farmer. And what

735
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 7: was incredible was in lower income families, the food was

736
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 7: simpler and from the land that you had. But my

737
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 7: grandmother was getting what she could from her fellow friends

738
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 7: and farms locally.

739
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: So it's did she move to LA to take care

740
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 2: of you?

741
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 6: Yeah?

742
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: Oh she did. Yeah.

743
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 7: So it was very based in broad beans, kidney beans, okra,

744
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 7: collared greens, rice, and you know, that.

745
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: Was sort of the staple of your meal.

746
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 7: But when she was in the South, especially when they

747
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 7: were on the farm, the major meal of the day

748
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 7: was breakfast, which was so wild. They would have like

749
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 7: really like an early morning breakfast and then go out

750
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 7: and work in the fields and then come.

751
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: Back and have this huge breakfast at like.

752
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 7: Ten in the morning because they'd already been working since

753
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 7: four am. And I remember as a little girl when

754
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 7: I would go visit my grandfather in Mississippi, and at

755
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 7: ten am, it was corn bread and eggs and bacon

756
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 7: and grits and collars and a coconut cake and a

757
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 7: cake over a cake for breakfast with your coffee.

758
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: You know, would this be weekdays as well?

759
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: Every day for them? Every day, you know?

760
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 7: But the Los Angeles version is like Sunday breakfast was

761
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 7: like a big.

762
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: Did you was your father in the kitchen or never? Never?

763
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 7: Although my mom just told me that when they were

764
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 7: first together in New York, he would cook on Sundays

765
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 7: for all the unemployed actors, you know, and do like

766
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 7: a big pasta spaghetti and meatballs or lamb chops or

767
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 7: some kind of Sunday meal to help feed the other actors,

768
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 7: and whoever was working would feed everybody. My mom came

769
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 7: to New York with twenty dollars in her pocket and

770
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 7: a little cardboard suitcase to become an actress from a

771
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 7: tiny town in Mississippi, knowing no one. And she said,

772
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 7: you know, you used to go in and if you

773
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 7: ordered a beer, they would suggest, you know, order a

774
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 7: beer because it'll fill your stomach, and the bartender would

775
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 7: give them bread and butter.

776
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: But coming out of this family where your grandmother cooked

777
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: for you, where your mother cared about food, was there

778
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: a time when you went off on your own and

779
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 2: suddenly there was not that comfort food.

780
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 7: Or a million percent I mean I started acting at eleven,

781
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 7: and I was on location by myself at sixteen on

782
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 7: and working on movies meant eating on the run and

783
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 7: eating poorly and eating in small towns everywhere, And so

784
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 7: it became what is provided to small town America, which

785
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 7: was fast food, eating tragic.

786
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: This isn't what y're starting in the late seventies.

787
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 7: And I only.

788
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: Discovered the gift.

789
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 7: Of the connection between eating beautifully and food becoming a

790
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 7: part of my artistic experience in the last decade because

791
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 7: of heroes like you.

792
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: Would you think that you could work or act or

793
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 2: do what you do better if you actually had healthy

794
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: food on a film set, or do you think it

795
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: doesn't matter?

796
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 7: Well, there are heroes in this movement, and I mean

797
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 7: in music, I am so impressed thanks to Maggie Billie

798
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 7: Eilish's mom, who is working so hard in terms of

799
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 7: how to feed crew on music productions and touring. And

800
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 7: there is a new model that a lot of incredible

801
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 7: companies that are looking at zero waste are looking at

802
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 7: sustainable models for catering. It's shifting and so we're trying

803
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 7: to figure out on film production how to do that

804
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 7: more and more.

805
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: What was it like with David Lynch, because you talk

806
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 2: about him a lot and you've worked with him a lot.

807
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 7: Food wise, it matters to him and sharing a meal

808
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 7: matters to him. And from the first time I worked

809
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 7: with him, which was on Blue Velvet, I was seventeen,

810
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 7: and those meals are some of my favorite memories, which was,

811
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 7: you know, at night we go and we eat together.

812
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 7: We find a couple of chefs in that town that

813
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 7: become friends.

814
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: They know what we love and we learn.

815
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 7: What they make, and at the end of the day

816
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 7: we'd always have a meal together.

817
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,959
Speaker 2: What about food in movies when you do a food scene?

818
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: Ow other food scenes that you remember.

819
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, the one I remember the most was on this

820
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 7: experimental film Inland Empire that we made some of that

821
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 7: movie literally just the two of us, and we shot

822
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 7: several days.

823
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: In Paris, you and David Lynch.

824
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, Inland Empire is this radical journey movie. But we

825
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 7: did a scene in a hotel room in Paris and

826
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 7: it was this very long monologue me on a phone

827
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 7: call and we'd sit down for our cafe olet and

828
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 7: he wanted his penischokola and he would write on a

829
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 7: legal pad and I would sit there and he would

830
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 7: look at me like a painter and just be writing

831
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 7: this monologue. And then he'd give it to me and

832
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 7: he's like, now while I have my panasha cola, you

833
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 7: learn your monologue. And it's like seven pages, and so

834
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 7: I'm like, you better eat slow, buddy.

835
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 10: So then i'd try to learn it and do a

836
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 10: probably poor job.

837
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 8: But attempt.

838
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 7: And then we'd go to the hotel room and he

839
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 7: would do my makeup or I would do my makeup,

840
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 7: or we'd work on it together, and then he would

841
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 7: set up the shot and we'd shoot the scene. And

842
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 7: we shot this monologue and he was happy with it,

843
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 7: and I was so exciting.

844
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: He was like, we got it.

845
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 7: And so then I went and I sat next to

846
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 7: the bed. There was this little chair and the side

847
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 7: table and there were two perfect.

848
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: Ladree maquaron which that.

849
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 7: Hotel would have provided, and there was a pistachio one.

850
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 7: So the green was so beautiful and they bit into

851
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 7: it. It was so fresh. And then he said, okay, now

852
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 7: we'll do the close up and he set up the

853
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 7: shine and he goes, where's the macaron.

854
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you mean?

855
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 4: I ate it?

856
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: He goes, you ate my props.

857
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 10: So that's my biggest memory of food and working with

858
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 10: David in a movie. I ate the prop and he

859
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 10: was like, you have to go now to laderie and

860
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 10: get a pistachio macaron I was.

861
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: I was once in Mexico and I sat down and

862
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: I was late for lunch, and there was the mayor

863
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 2: of Mexico City, and I was so starving that I

864
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: ate the crudy tay that was in the middle of

865
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: the table. And the waiter came up and said, you

866
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: just ate our floral arrangement, and I'd eaten somehow. I said,

867
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 2: I need the floral arrangement, I think, and then guess

868
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: what happened. My whole mouth went nam was part of

869
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: that floral arrangement was some weird plant, and I thought, okay,

870
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die in this lunch with

871
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,240
Speaker 2: the mayor of Mexico because I ate the flower flower

872
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: plant no called float something. Do you think about food

873
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: a lot? Do you think what you're going to eat

874
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: the next day? Or do you go to bed thinking, well,

875
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 2: well I have when I wake up, or do you

876
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 2: wake up and think what am I going to see?

877
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 7: My son started cooking We've started having conversations that we

878
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 7: never had before and challenging ourselves, you know, like how

879
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 7: do we really make truly a great Cajun style red

880
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 7: beans and rice? Because we talk about my grandmother and

881
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 7: how i'd have red beans didn't, you know as a

882
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 7: baby only Yeah.

883
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 2: Is there a food that you would go to for comfort?

884
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 7: It always was cobbler growing up.

885
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: A certain fruit or just any cobbler.

886
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: Maybe peaches pieces.

887
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 7: That would be, you know, because of remembering my grandmother's

888
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 7: love of it and her taste, the taste of peaches

889
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 7: and like that idea of summer and the scent of them.

890
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 7: But I think for me now, comfort is.

891
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,399
Speaker 1: Community.

892
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 2: Let's go eat, eat all right, Thank you, thank.

893
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: You, Oh my god, that's so beautiful.

894
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 2: That's all for this season of Ruthie's Table four. We

895
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 2: will be back in the autumn with new conversations, new

896
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: recipes and memories to share. Until then, have a wonderful summer.

897
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership

898
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 5: with Montclair