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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George nor

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Speaker 1: with you, Devin Hunter with us. Devin is the best

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Speaker 1: selling author of witch Power series, the creator of the

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Speaker 1: Modern Witch, which includes a podcast, a blog, a magazine,

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Speaker 1: Modern Witch dot Com, as well as a professional psychic

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Speaker 1: medium and occultist. It's a part owner of the Mystic

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Speaker 1: Dream in Walnut Creek, California, and initiate of the multiple

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Speaker 1: occult orders, including his own Sacred Fires, and as the

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Speaker 1: co founder of the Black Rose Tradition of Witchcraft. He

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Speaker 1: has been featured in multiple publications. He's a frequent presenter

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Speaker 1: and keynote speaker at conferences and festivals all around the nation.

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Speaker 1: His highly anticipated fourth book, Modern Witch Spells, Recipes and Workings,

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Speaker 1: came out a few months ago, and here he is

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Speaker 1: on Coast to Coast Devin looking forward to this. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Jordan, I'm

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Speaker 1: a really big fan. Well, thank you so much. How

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Speaker 1: did you get involved in witchcraft? You know, I was

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Speaker 1: a psychic medium at a really young age. We we

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Speaker 1: kind of figured that out in the family and my

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Speaker 1: mother was really just into anything spirituality kind of related,

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Speaker 1: and even though she comes from a very Christian background,

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Speaker 1: that's how I was raised. And my father was was

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Speaker 1: a pagan from the eighties, and so he always had

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Speaker 1: books around and things like that. And when I started

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Speaker 1: having experiences that they couldn't explain, mostly dealing with spirits,

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Speaker 1: I was able to go to my parents and say, Hey,

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Speaker 1: something is weird and this is happening, and they let

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Speaker 1: me just talk about it. Because of that, I was

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Speaker 1: putting that unique position of having, you know, people I

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Speaker 1: could confide in, people I could talk to, and luckily

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Speaker 1: they were really supportive of that experience. So that's how

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Speaker 1: it all kind of got started. I was actually a

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Speaker 1: psychic medium looking for answers and I kind of stumbled

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Speaker 1: into the occult and I stayed there. And I would

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Speaker 1: guess your parents accepted this from you pretty readily, didn't

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Speaker 1: I My dad started did my mother again? She's a

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Speaker 1: borning and Christian and so as came born again that

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Speaker 1: that became a point of discussion that we still have

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Speaker 1: to this day. But they are they're they're pretty supportive regardless.

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Speaker 1: And at what point Devon in your life or career

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Speaker 1: did you kind of migrate into the witchcraft area. I

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Speaker 1: started practicing when I was a teenager. I was definitely

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Speaker 1: one of those people that like the craft of the

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Speaker 1: movie the craft was oriented to um and so I,

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Speaker 1: you know, really my interest in the occult and in

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Speaker 1: witchcraft was honestly rooted and trying to get some sort

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Speaker 1: of power over, you know, my life at the time.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a very rural area that a

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Speaker 1: lot of drug abuse, a lot of a lot of issues,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of us don't don't make it out

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Speaker 1: of those those situations, and so I turned for witchcraft

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Speaker 1: really to get out of there and to help find,

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Speaker 1: you know, a way for me to really figure out

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Speaker 1: who I was and thrive as an adult. And I,

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Speaker 1: you know, honestly, I credit witchcraft for being alive today. Wow,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get into that in a moment here.

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Speaker 1: Hollywood really has done an end run on witchcraft and

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Speaker 1: really has distorted it, hasn't it. Yes, And no, Um,

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Speaker 1: I think witchcraft is a term that is, you know,

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Speaker 1: if we look at the word, which it has so

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Speaker 1: many different meanings to so many different cultures, and I

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Speaker 1: think everybody owns the word, which I think if you

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Speaker 1: were raised with the same fairy tales I was raised with.

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Speaker 1: You know, witches are just part of our history. They're

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Speaker 1: part of all our you know, shared folklore. And so

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, the media and Hollywood gets to

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Speaker 1: fantasize things a little bit more than than they typically

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Speaker 1: didn't be um in real you know, in real practice.

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Speaker 1: But I think that that's also kind of how witches

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Speaker 1: and the occult has stayed relevant to this day, is

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Speaker 1: that it's it's part of culture. You know, our kids

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Speaker 1: get to read books where, you know, which saves the

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Speaker 1: day versus when we were kids, you know, we were

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Speaker 1: reading books about which is dealing children? Um, So things

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Speaker 1: have definitely changed, I think for the pedern I do

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Speaker 1: usually attribute Hollywood for that mostly, although there are plenty

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Speaker 1: examples of things doing awrye for sure. And would you

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Speaker 1: say that witchcraft basically saved your life? Were you going

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Speaker 1: down the wrong path in a rapid way? Yeah? I was.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was a gay kid in Roll, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: was really depressed, and I was going to a church

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Speaker 1: that was so supportive about everything in life except for

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Speaker 1: this this one particular you know, aspect of my life,

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Speaker 1: and not that I ever made it's the complete focus

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Speaker 1: of my life. But it really did make it difficult.

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Speaker 1: And so I was lucky to be amongst friends who

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Speaker 1: you know, had the greatest intentions when we'd go to

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Speaker 1: church and we would talk and they would try to

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Speaker 1: witness to me, and um I was offered conversion therapy

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Speaker 1: a couple at times, and all of that really adds

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Speaker 1: to you know, depression and feelings of inadequacy and not

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Speaker 1: being able to you know, take care of ourselves later

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Speaker 1: on the life. And so I was just a really

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Speaker 1: depressed kit. I was very, very sad, very scared about

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Speaker 1: what the future could bring. And you know, I found

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Speaker 1: myself one night at church standing in a center of

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Speaker 1: a group of men who were praying for me, and

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Speaker 1: I just felt this sense of you know, really kind

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Speaker 1: of come over me. And I realized that they had

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Speaker 1: turned you know, this problem that I was having of

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Speaker 1: really just self acceptance and training if I was into

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Speaker 1: this spiritual battle, and I didn't need to be there

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Speaker 1: for that. So I, you know, that was my last

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Speaker 1: time that I officially was a member of a church,

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Speaker 1: I would say, and that was many moons ago, and

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Speaker 1: so I walked away and I went right into the

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Speaker 1: arms of you know, the Goddess, as we say. And

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Speaker 1: I found help and healing and hope, and and because

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Speaker 1: of that, I'm here in that moment. It changed your life,

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Speaker 1: didn't it? Yeah? Absolutely, without a question. Well good for you. Now,

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Speaker 1: how did you migrate into help people who believe they've

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Speaker 1: been cursed? So this actually happened totally accidentally, It wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't wake up when Danyland I'm going to help

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Speaker 1: people who are I'm going to put the curse on.

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Speaker 1: I'm then helpful. You didn't know that. I've heard of

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Speaker 1: worse things happening, for sure. I you know, I started

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Speaker 1: working with clients and mostly of a psychic medium, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of it was just helping them, you know,

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Speaker 1: follow up with people after they've passed away, or get

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Speaker 1: information when somebody's passed away. And I ended up with

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Speaker 1: a client who believed she had inherited a cursed item

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Speaker 1: from her grandmother and that this item was responsible for

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Speaker 1: a lot of mishaps and a lot of problems. And

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Speaker 1: I had never really taken curses seriously. I hadn't really

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Speaker 1: considered him, you know, I just thought I was angry

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Speaker 1: people throwing angry energy around. But this woman had a

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Speaker 1: really interesting set of circumstances surrounding it. She had it

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Speaker 1: was she felt like when she wore it, or if

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Speaker 1: somebody and her family was wearing it, that the energy

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Speaker 1: and the house would just get really sick and growth

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Speaker 1: everybody who start arguing the longer people would wear it

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Speaker 1: date starts day would get sick. And so it kind

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Speaker 1: of had this reputation and the family of something you

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Speaker 1: didn't touch. And she ended up in heriting it, and so,

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Speaker 1: you know, her question really was what do I do

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Speaker 1: with it? Because I you know, this is part of

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Speaker 1: the family, you know, tradition, it's part something we've had

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Speaker 1: for a very long time. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: this thing is really scary to me. So the work

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Speaker 1: that I ended up doing with her wasn't about helping

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Speaker 1: her communicate with her grandma necessarily about what to do,

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Speaker 1: but helping her to you know, kind of get a

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Speaker 1: grip on this this item that she had. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the big question was did she get to keep the

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Speaker 1: ring or did she get rid of the ring? M

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Speaker 1: And so that was that was my first real kind

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Speaker 1: of dive into helping people who are cursed. And then

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Speaker 1: when I moved to California and I started working at

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Speaker 1: my Shoptimistic Dream. We ended up with a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who would come in who thought they were cursed

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Speaker 1: and they weren't. They had rand into a psychic who

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Speaker 1: was scamming them. A lot of times it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: eight thousand dollars and we'll take this curse off really wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh that happens a lot. So that when I really

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Speaker 1: got involved, was trying to help people avoid these situations

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Speaker 1: where they were getting scammed um. And then I ended

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Speaker 1: up finding real authentic cases where people, you know, really

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Speaker 1: were cursed and there was really something going on. And

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Speaker 1: once you see that that stuff in action, you can't

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Speaker 1: really ignore it. And there there just became something about

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Speaker 1: the whole process. And I figured, you know what, with

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Speaker 1: all of this this you know, crazy stuff that I'm

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Speaker 1: into and the love I have for just life and

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Speaker 1: people and the ability to have a good life and

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Speaker 1: to feel empowered and to not have your power taken

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Speaker 1: away from you, something like a curse really became this

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Speaker 1: this interesting subject that I liked to tackle. Why do

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Speaker 1: you why do you think, Devin, people think they're cursed

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Speaker 1: when maybe it's just a string of bad luck. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of where we just again culture stuff, right,

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Speaker 1: cultural um. We're raised to you know, in our culture

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Speaker 1: here in the States, curses or something that are trying

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Speaker 1: to hush USh we don't really you know, like to

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Speaker 1: talk about them a lot, right. If we go over

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Speaker 1: to other parts of the world, that is so not

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Speaker 1: the case. You can buy a curse off the street corner,

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Speaker 1: you know, out of a basket, end of end market.

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Speaker 1: So curses are really it's a very big subject. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of different types of curses, and we're all

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Speaker 1: raised with this belief that it's possible, right, And so

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Speaker 1: I don't think we ever truly get to disconnect from

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Speaker 1: that concept that curses are real, or that something is cursed,

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Speaker 1: or that the event could lead to a haunting that

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Speaker 1: could also be like kind of like a curse or something.

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Speaker 1: So we're all, you know, kind of running into these

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Speaker 1: things all the time. And the problem that I think

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Speaker 1: we have, especially with all of the stuff going on in

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Speaker 1: in the world right now, it's a depressing you know life.

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Speaker 1: At the moment, things can get very sad, and you know,

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Speaker 1: if we're looking at people are dying everywhere, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at the fear of our own health and maintaining our health.

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Speaker 1: All of that stress, all of that depression, all of

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Speaker 1: that anxiety can can totally jumble up into feeling like

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Speaker 1: you're cursed, feeling like there's something stuck to you then

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Speaker 1: you can't quite get rid of. It's inhibiting you from

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Speaker 1: being able to take the next step in your life

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Speaker 1: or even make good decisions for yourself. And curses are

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Speaker 1: something that, again there's a very big topic to get into,

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Speaker 1: and I hope we've got plenty times and anything we're

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Speaker 1: going to but because of the different types of curses

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Speaker 1: in different ways that we run into this type of energy,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, I don't see anywhere in the world

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Speaker 1: where people have fully let go of this belief, this

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Speaker 1: understanding that curses and energy and how they affect us

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Speaker 1: are real. Does the person who levies the curse Devin

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Speaker 1: need to really be into it and understand it and

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Speaker 1: have a technique or can anybody do it? Oh? No, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: anybody can can shoot a curse off. You know, Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: if we take a step back, we think of what

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Speaker 1: a curse is, you know, at its most distilled point,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a wish for somebody to do

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Speaker 1: wrong or for harm to they fall on somebody. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of the most simple kind of term for it. However,

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Speaker 1: curses can also be something that would refer to a

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Speaker 1: lot of American folk magic as crossing or you've been crossed,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of like you set the intention to

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Speaker 1: lose weight, and then you get up the next day

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Speaker 1: and instead of exercising, you go to McDonald's and buy

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Speaker 1: you know, the biggie breakfast sandwich and all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So the ideas you've set an intention for yourself, you've

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Speaker 1: already set energy and motion to lose weight, but now

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Speaker 1: your actions are doing the exact opposite of that. So

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Speaker 1: you would have clogged yourself up, you would have changed yourself,

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Speaker 1: you would have crossed yourself. We say, so curses can

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Speaker 1: come in, you know, a wide variety of ways, and

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Speaker 1: I think most of them are I mean, if we

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Speaker 1: think of legitimate curses, most of them are what we

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Speaker 1: referred to as kind of unconscious or subconscious curses. And

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Speaker 1: like the evil eye, you know a lot of times

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Speaker 1: the evil eye is something that is totally unconscious and

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Speaker 1: it's just you're coveting something you know your you can't

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Speaker 1: have a baby. And then your sister gets pregnant and

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Speaker 1: has the most gorgeous baby in the world. And even

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Speaker 1: though you're happy for her, when you see that baby,

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Speaker 1: your heartbreaks a little bit because you don't have one.

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Speaker 1: And so we say that that's putting evil on the baby.

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Speaker 1: You covet that baby, and even though you don't mean

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Speaker 1: to hurt it, though you don't mean to put that

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Speaker 1: energy there, you've done it um And so that's why

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Speaker 1: there's these, you know, big traditions around, you know, people

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Speaker 1: not meeting a baby for the first couple of months

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Speaker 1: after it's born, and people being away from a woman

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Speaker 1: right after she's had a baby. You know, there's there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in taboo that's throunds all that,

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Speaker 1: and it's really to avoid these calamities that can come up.

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Speaker 1: Some say that the Kennedy family has been cursed from

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Speaker 1: whatever Joseph Kennedy did a long, long time ago. How

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Speaker 1: do you know if you've been cursed if nobody's told you,

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Speaker 1: For example, if if if somebody doesn't say I cursed you,

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Speaker 1: but you've been cursed and something's happening, how do you

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Speaker 1: know it? So you know it's interest you the step

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Speaker 1: with the Kennedy family, because that is that's one of

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Speaker 1: the famous American purses and UM, it's it's interesting in

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Speaker 1: that UM and for those of you who don't know,

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Speaker 1: the basic idea is that the family was cursed to

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Speaker 1: have all of their male children die and that ended

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Speaker 1: up kind of being what we saw happen, right so right,

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Speaker 1: but the age of maturity, something would happen and we

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Speaker 1: would lose one of them. And it's one of these

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Speaker 1: things that you know, the family themselves, they there's been

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Speaker 1: interviews and things with them, and they don't acknowledge the curse.

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Speaker 1: They don't acknowledge that it's real. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if if that's partly that they you know, just don't

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Speaker 1: want to believe it, they don't want to give a

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Speaker 1: space so that it can't be real for them, or

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Speaker 1: if it's that they do know it's real and they

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Speaker 1: just don't want to give it any more energy to it.

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Speaker 1: But this is one of the subjects where it's really

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought this up because you know the

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Speaker 1: question of do they know their curse? Well, they think

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Speaker 1: their first um and they still went through and did

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Speaker 1: things to remove the curses. There's lots of reports of

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Speaker 1: them hiring people when working with different practitioners, but the

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Speaker 1: curse still lingers, it still remains, And you can put

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Speaker 1: that in the context of, you know, Joe Schmos who

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Speaker 1: works in a factory, and he could be going to

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Speaker 1: work every single day coming home and have no idea

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Speaker 1: that he's, you know, living in this world where there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of negative energy and it's part of it.

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Speaker 1: And so when what we usually look for are not

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Speaker 1: very supernatural things when we're trying to diagnose somebody with

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Speaker 1: a curse, usually you're not going to hear, you know,

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Speaker 1: knocks on the door or on the walls. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to have a bunch of quote unquote supernatural things

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Speaker 1: happening to you. It's mostly going to be a really

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Speaker 1: big string of bad luck. You're going to everything from

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Speaker 1: you hit every single red light on the way into work.

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Speaker 1: And in the most mild form too, you can't get pregnant,

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Speaker 1: to you have a hard time pretty much leaving your home.

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Speaker 1: That tends to happen a lot with people who are cursed.

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Speaker 1: They get depressed and just kind of just kind of

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Speaker 1: retract from society. So when we're asking ourselves. You know,

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Speaker 1: how do we know if we've been cursed? I like

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Speaker 1: to think, really, ultimately, are you living your life to

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Speaker 1: the fullest potential? And if the answer is yes, then

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Speaker 1: you're good to go. If the answer is no, then

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Speaker 1: we want to ask ourselves, just from a a psychic

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Speaker 1: and kind of spiritual point, what is happening that's keeping

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Speaker 1: me from being able to do that? And I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that you're the reason this is happening, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying we need to identify it, you know, causes.

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Speaker 1: And once we know that, Okay, there's a there's a

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Speaker 1: there's something happening, I'm not able to move forward with

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Speaker 1: this project or I'm not able to you know, succeed

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Speaker 1: in this thing when I really should be. All all

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Speaker 1: the things are there, but I just can't quite stick

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Speaker 1: the landing. And if this keeps happening over and over again,

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Speaker 1: then we stopped and we take a step back and

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Speaker 1: go a wait a minute, maybe your energy quote unquote

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Speaker 1: energy is stuck. Maybe there's something inhibiting it from being

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Speaker 1: able to move forward. And so that's when we start

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Speaker 1: to take a look. But for the most part, you

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Speaker 1: think of curses and people and people who happen cursed,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of at the time where it's nothing

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Speaker 1: supernatural and a good purse. We always say, a good

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Speaker 1: curse is not going to be detectable, a good curse

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Speaker 1: is not going to feel like you're cursed, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of it. Again, a lot of the times people

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Speaker 1: are kind of subconsciously cursing themselves or subconsciously kind of

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Speaker 1: running into these things. And you know, to avoid that,

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Speaker 1: we need to get back to this that you of

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Speaker 1: knowing ourselves and understanding when we have these little imbalances,

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Speaker 1: but we really want to pay and chew our personality,

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Speaker 1: our mood, and our health. Those are the things that

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Speaker 1: shift the quickest and tend to shift the most and

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Speaker 1: the most dramatically when somebody's been cursed. Well, no, you're

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Speaker 1: you're right. I had a friend, you know, notice that

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Speaker 1: I said had I'll tell you what happened in a moment,

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Speaker 1: who must have had a black cloud over his head

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Speaker 1: because everything would go wrong with him, everything, and he

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Speaker 1: ultimately ended up dying of a prescription overdose in Saint Louis.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't our bell, folks, and he you know, they

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Speaker 1: found him dead one night when we couldn't get a

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Speaker 1: hold of him. I was on the air, and the

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Speaker 1: police went and knocked down his door to get in there,

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Speaker 1: and there he was. He was dead, and he had

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things all over the place that he

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Speaker 1: was getting legally, but he was taking too much. But

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Speaker 1: but I remember we went to Vegas a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago, and he would have so much bad luck.

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Speaker 1: I used to joke with him and call him the

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Speaker 1: cooler because I'd be playing a little blackjack and he'd

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Speaker 1: be next to me and I'd lose all the time

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Speaker 1: with him next to me. I finally said, here's a

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Speaker 1: hundred bucks, go away, you know, go to the bull,

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Speaker 1: go to the bar or something. I want everything back,

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Speaker 1: and then ten times to that amount. When he left.

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Speaker 1: Something was wrong with him. I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what it was. I don't know if it was self

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Speaker 1: induced or somebody got him, but something was wrong there. Devon. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And most of the time it's it's honestly, most of

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Speaker 1: the time in a self induced kind of thing. And

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Speaker 1: it's get its unintentional, right, and some people become they

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Speaker 1: kind of trip that wire. Maybe they ran into somebody

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Speaker 1: who was you know, had just a steezing amount of

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Speaker 1: negative energy they pumped into them, had an exchange, took

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Speaker 1: on some of an energy, and they are they themselves

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Speaker 1: were not able to, you know, get rid of it,

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Speaker 1: and so it just keeps mounting and mounting and growing,

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Speaker 1: growing like a snowball, and eventually you just kind of

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Speaker 1: becomes that that guy who shows up in a room

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Speaker 1: and everybody just kind of moves away from you. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's very very likely that, especially when we're dealing with

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Speaker 1: people who are struggling in that way, that there's some

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Speaker 1: sort of purse or some sort of spirit involvement in

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Speaker 1: those cases. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more